1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: Monster is back with a brand new series, Monster d 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:08,719 Speaker 1: C Sniper. Here's a teaser for the show. While you're listening, 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: search for Monster DC Sniper and subscribe. New episodes are 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: available every Thursday. I don't think America has ever gone 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: back to the way that it was before nine eleven 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: and the anthrax attacks. The fear was really that there 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: would be a second wave of attacks, and then along 8 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: comes the DC Sniper and all of the country's worst 9 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: fears are realized. I think it's fair to say all 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: help broke this. I don't know. The gunman, most likely 11 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: a skilled marksman, fired six times in the courts of 12 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: sixteen hours. They killed the five people on one day 13 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: and then went on the rampage for the next month. 14 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: The police say they have never had a crime quite 15 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: like this. It is quite a mystery. It was scary 16 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: to go to the grocery store or fill up your 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: car with gas, and as the DC Sniper case unfolded, 18 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: that terror only group from My Heart Radio and tender 19 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: Foot TV. This is Monster DC Sniper. The views and 20 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the 21 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do 22 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: not necessarily represent those of I Heeart Media Stuff Media 23 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: for its employees. In the spring of the Valeo Police 24 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: Department announced it had submitted two pieces of evidence for 25 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: DNA testing, two envelopes that once contained letters sent from 26 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: the Zodiac Killer to local newspapers. Although similar DNA tests 27 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: had been performed in this case with no results, this 28 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: attempt was different. The testing method was more advanced, and 29 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: if a via DNA sample was produced this time, it 30 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: would be used to create a genetic profile for forensic genealogy. 31 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: In its simplest form, forensic genealogy maps and individual's DNA 32 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: profile and then compares it to other previously existing profiles. 33 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: It's a way to build family trees, and it's what 34 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,679 Speaker 1: companies like twenty three and me, Ancestry and jed match do. 35 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: Forensic genealogy is the method that caught the Golden State Killer, 36 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: the man who murdered at least thirteen people and committed 37 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: more than fifty rapes. After more than forty years, Joseph 38 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: James de'angelo was charged and convicted of his crimes. While 39 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: DNA and forensic genealogy was able to close the Golden 40 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: State Killer case, it's so far has not been able 41 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: to identify the Zodiac Killer, and unfortunately, there hasn't been 42 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: an official update from the Valeo Police Department since that 43 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: spring of While we hope forensic genealogy will eventually unmask 44 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: the Zodiac, for now the trail seems cold. The best 45 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: evidence were left with remains circumstantial. Throughout the season, we 46 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: examined the people we considered the most likely suspects. Since then, 47 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: we've had many listeners calling in with questions about other 48 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: individuals that we haven't fully investigated. Today, we're going to 49 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:29,959 Speaker 1: take a closer look at some of those people. A 50 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: man in a mask robbed, tied, and stabbed them, leaving 51 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: them for dad. Subjects stated, I want to report a murder, 52 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: no a double murder. I did it. A man who 53 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: wore an evil style executioner's hood, carried a knife and 54 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: gun and intended to use them. They have an arrestipe 55 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: because they can't cove a m I'm not damn Zodiac. 56 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: Who is the Zodiac and where is he? From my 57 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: Heart radio and under Foot TV, this is Monster, the 58 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: Zodiac Killer. According to an estimate by the Los Angeles Times, 59 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: more than twelve hundred people have claimed to know the 60 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: Zodiac's identity, but only a few of those claims seem viable. 61 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: In two thousand nine, Deborah Perez held a sidewalk conference 62 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: claiming that her father, guy Ward Hendrickson, was the Zodiac. 63 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: Perez claimed she helped write some of the letters the 64 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: Zodiac sent to the media. She also claimed to possess 65 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: the glasses of Paul Stein, the Zodiac's last confirmed victim. However, 66 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: after inspection, police determined that the glasses were not Paul 67 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: Stein's and that guy Ward Hendrickson was not the Zodiac. 68 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: Another accusation came from Jack Kaufman, a man who believed 69 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: his stepfather, Jack Torrence, was the Zodiac. Kaufman gave police 70 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: a black hood similar to the one the Zodiac war 71 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: when he attacked the couple at Lake Berryessa. Kaufman also 72 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: gave police a bloody knife resembling the weapon from the 73 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: same attack. He claimed that both of these items were 74 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: his stepfather's. Additionally, Kaufman provided stamps his stepfather had licked 75 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: for DNA testing in hopes the police could finally prove 76 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: his suspicions. While both of these accusations caught the attention 77 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: of the police and the media, there is one claim 78 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: that overshadows the rest, the claim of Gary Stewart. In 79 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: May of fourteen, Gary Stewart's book debuted across the United States. 80 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: It was called the Most Dangerous Animal of All Searching 81 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: for My Father and Finding the Zodiac Killer. The book 82 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: was a New York Times and San Francisco Chronicle bestseller. 83 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: It follows Stuart's decade long journey to find his biological father. 84 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: It began when Stewart's biological mother reached out to him 85 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: when he was thirty nine years old. Their reunion was successful, 86 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: and Stewart decided he also wanted to meet his father, 87 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: Earl Van Best Jr. But he would soon learned that 88 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: Earl had a police record for some very serious crimes. 89 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: In fact, according to Stewart, the San Francisco Police Department 90 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: told him to stop looking for his dad. It wasn't 91 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: long after this that Stewart would turn over the first stone, 92 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: leading him to believe that Earl Van Best Jr. His father, 93 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: was the Zodiac Killer. The clips you're about to hear 94 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: are from an interview with Gary Stewart on the I 95 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: Heart radio show Rover's Morning Glory, in talking about his 96 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: story and his book. One day, I'm watching an Ante 97 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: Coal case file special on the Zodiac Killer. The wanted 98 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: poster from San Francisco nineteen sixty nine of the Zodiac 99 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: Killer pops up on the screen and I can't breathe. 100 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: My son, here's whatever noise I make. And he runs 101 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: into the room and he looks at the television. He says, Dad, 102 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: it's you. I went in my office and got this 103 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: old d m V photo that I've been given by 104 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: the FFPD, which turns out it was his actual mug shot. 105 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: And I said, no, Zach's not me, it's my father. 106 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: The likeness between Van Best and the police sketch of 107 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: the Zodiac suspect was only what started Stuart's theory. Gary 108 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: also believes that his father's name appears in the cipher's 109 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: the Killer sent to Bay Area newspapers. My father signed 110 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: his name E. V. Best Jr. In particular, in the 111 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: four oh eight cipher that was mailed to the San 112 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: Francisco Examiner. I just looked at it one day to 113 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: see if I could see anything, and out off the 114 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: page popped E. V. Best Junior altogether in a row backward, 115 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: forward and up. After the police did not pick that up. 116 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: He later came back and sent the infamous three forty cipher, 117 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: which the amateur sleuths in the Zodiac community around the 118 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: world say is still unsolved. He insisted that his identity 119 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: was in that cipher and my father's name complete name 120 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: is in that ciphering. Michael Butterfield, the creator of the 121 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: website Zodiac Killer Facts, doesn't agree. These ciphers were constructed 122 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: in blocks of seventeen symbols. Gary Stewart found each letter 123 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: in his father's name in one of the lines. Now, 124 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: normally a cipher is a series of symbols which are 125 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: deciphered into other texts, but Gary believed that the actual 126 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: text of the cipher was the message that it didn't 127 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: need to be deciphered, that you could just read his 128 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: father's name by finding the letters in his father's name 129 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: in each one of these lines. Now, of course some 130 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: people might find that compelling, but as David ran Shacking, 131 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: Zodiac cipher expert, pointed out, you can use the same 132 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: method to find many other names, which means that that 133 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: cannot be the only solution. Gary also claimed that handwriting 134 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: from the zodiac matched his father's handwriting, and this was 135 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: based on the notion that several marriage certificates and documents 136 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: from a certain church bore the handwriting of Earl vand Best, 137 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: And Gary Stewart hired an expert who came in and 138 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: he even wrote a book about how this was the 139 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: end of the Zodiac mystery because he had matched the 140 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: handwriting to Gary Stewart's father. Now, after that happened, a 141 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: Zodiac theorist named micro Delli contacted that church and found 142 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: out that the handwriting on those documents does not belong 143 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: to Earl band Best. The handwriting was apparently that of 144 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: the reverend at this church, So that cast doubt not 145 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: only on Gary Stuart's claims, but on the credibility of 146 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 1: his handwriting expert, who had apparently concluded that the handwriting 147 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 1: of three different individuals was all earlband Best. And then, 148 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: of course there's the fingerprint pulled from the crime scene 149 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: of the Zodiac's last confirmed kill, the murder of Paul Stein. 150 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: He basically claims that there's a fingerprint from one of 151 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: the Zodiac crime scenes which he claims looks like his 152 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: father's fingerprint when it's reversed, Apparently his father had a 153 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: scar out of finger and there's some sort of line 154 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: on the fingerprint which he believes go insides to the scar, 155 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: but of course the police don't think this is a 156 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: valid theory. The likeness, the fingerprint, the ciphers, all of 157 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: these are common threads throughout many zodiac theories. But there 158 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: is one detail that sets Gary Stewart's claims apart. His 159 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: biological parents had several connections to the case. The first 160 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: connection is to journalist Paul Avery, through a series of 161 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 1: articles published in the San Francisco Chronicle called The ice 162 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: Cream Romance. These articles detailed how his parents met and 163 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: focused on their significant age difference. In nineteen sixty one 164 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, When you're twenty seven and you're running 165 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: off with a fourteen year old and the cops catch 166 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: you and you just happened in eating in an ice 167 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: cream parlor, good journalists are gonna say something like he 168 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: found love in an ice cream parlor. Ice cream romances 169 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: bitter in. The problem was he was twenty seven and 170 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: his young bride was only fourteen. I found out through 171 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: contacting the Chronicle and the archivist at the San Francisco 172 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: Library that Paul Avery was the author of the ice 173 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: Cream romance, the Zodiac Killer came back and targeted Paul 174 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: Avery as part of his taunting the media Paul Avery specifically. Basically, 175 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: Stewart is claiming that his father, Earl Van Bess Jr. 176 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: Wrote the Zodiac letters to Paul Avery because he was 177 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: angry with him for writing the ice cream romance articles. 178 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: There is currently no evidence that's been made public that 179 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: directly links Earl Van Best Jr. To those Zodiac letters. 180 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: The second connection to the case is through his mother's 181 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: second sent After her marriage with Earl Van Best Jr. 182 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: Was annulled, Gary Stewart's mother, Judy Chandler, remarried a man 183 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: named Rotea Guildford. He was an inspector with the San 184 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: Francisco Police Department and worked on the Zodiac case. Gary 185 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: Stewart wanted law enforcement to take his DNA for comparison 186 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: against a Zodiac sample. He hoped a partial match would 187 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: confirm his theory about his father. However, the San Francisco 188 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 1: Police Department declined to run this test. Stewart believes this 189 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: is because of a conflict of interest. My mother believes 190 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: that it's because of her late husband's involvement in the 191 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 1: Zodiac case. You know, they're allegedly suspects in the Zodiac case. 192 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: If my father happened to be interviewed and cleared because 193 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: he was a very intelligent, smooth talking salesman, maybe even 194 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: by Rotea Guildford, how would that look. I don't know. 195 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: I'm just speculating. Stewart believes that the police refused to 196 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: test his DNA because if there was a match, it 197 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: would mean the police had made a mistake if they 198 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: had previously cleared Earl Van Best Jr. If true, that 199 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: scenario would certainly be embarrassing to the whole department. But 200 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: we have to ask ourselves would embarrassment be enough to 201 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: stop law enforcement from running those tests and possibly confirming 202 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: the Zodiac's identity. It's also important to note that, according 203 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: to Butterfield, Judy did not believe her ex husband was 204 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: the Zodiac. According to the Zodiac Killer Facts website, Judy 205 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: reportedly referred to Stuart's Zodiac claims as fiction. Again, this 206 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 1: is all speculation, but if the evidence didn't match up, 207 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: then how did this book gain so much traction. Normally 208 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: a book is presented up for review, but this book 209 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 1: was withheld until the day was released, so it came 210 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: out to a lot of fanfare, and of course most 211 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: media outlets simply pick up the publicity information put out 212 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: by the publishers, so they will just repeat what the 213 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: book jacket says the most compelling evidence, you know, that 214 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: kind of thing. He went on a media tour, I 215 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: believe he was on Fox News and ABC This Morning 216 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: and things like that. He was asked a lot of questions, 217 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: but of course no one asked the pertinent questions about 218 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: the handwriting, about the fingerprint and other things. But if 219 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: you look at the way the book was released, in 220 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: the way it was received, it's kind of a harbon 221 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: copy of what's happened with other books in the past. 222 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: People see the book, they assume it's nonfiction. Then they 223 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: repeat what's in the book as if it's fact. And 224 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: if you only go by that, Gary Stuart's theory seems 225 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: very compelling. It's not until you start to ask some 226 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: serious questions and get into the nitty gritty details that 227 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: you'll find that there is some serious problems. I think 228 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: that one of the reasons people accepted it so quickly 229 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: and why it became so popular, it's because it's a 230 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: story that a lot of people like to hear. A 231 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: man in search of truth about his own life finds 232 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: his father, and then he finds out horrible secrets about 233 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: his father. It's very compelling family drama, but it doesn't 234 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: necessarily translate into an actual true crime story. Days after 235 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: this book was released, the theory was already being unraveled 236 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: by another theorist, Mike Rodelli. He was the guy who 237 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: contacted the church about Van Best's handwriting. He didn't believe 238 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: Gary Stewart's claim about Earl van Best, Jr. Because he 239 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: already had his own suspect, a man who ran a 240 00:15:44,480 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: car dealership in San Francisco. If you're well acquainted with 241 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: luxury cars, you may be familiar with this next suspect. 242 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: He's responsible for introducing brands like Jaguar and Rolls Royce 243 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: to the United States. Although his name now circulates across 244 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: zodiac forms, when the book The Hunt for Zodiac was released, 245 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: he was simply referred to as Mr. X. More than 246 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: twenty years ago, a theorist named Microdelli came up with 247 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: the idea that the Zodiac may have written letters to 248 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: the editor at several local newspapers using his real name 249 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: or an assumed name, so, Mike Rodelli and others began 250 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: checking on the files of the local newspapers in the 251 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: Bay area and they came across one letter from a 252 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: man named Shell Caballi. This letter apparently referred to children 253 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: lying in the streets and was written sometime before the 254 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: first Zodiac murders on Lake Herman Road. Prodeli thought this 255 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: sounded compelling and he decided to check into this individual. 256 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: Very quickly, he discovered that this man lived approximately one 257 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: block north of the scene of the Zodiac's last murder 258 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: in San Francisco. For people who are familiar with the case, 259 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: they'll know that the killer walked away from the crime 260 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: scene and headed off in a direction and was seen 261 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: in the vicinity of this man's house. There was the 262 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: theory that this man was the killer and that he 263 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: had simply gone into his own residence after the murder. 264 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: Microdelli became convinced that this might be a serious lead 265 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: and began investigating this individual, and over the years he 266 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: came up with some points of interest which he believed 267 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: implicate this man in the Zodiac crimes. Now, Microdelli has 268 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: found some other people, including some investigators, who believed that 269 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: he may be onto something. He apparently resembled the composite 270 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: sketch of the Zodiac, but then again, there are thousands 271 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: of men who matched that description, especially in the nineteen sixties, 272 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: and Microdelli had some other interesting tidbits of what you 273 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: might called trivia. Cavali was a car dealer, and the 274 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: Zodiac crimes revolved around cars, Prodelli believed that there was 275 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: some sort of link there. Cavally also participated in a 276 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: race in Riverside, California, where there was a suspected Zodiac murder, 277 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: so there was some belief that this might be a 278 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: link as well. But at the end of the day, 279 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: when you look at the information that Rodelli has presented, 280 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot there. But let's go back 281 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: to the point about Cavalli having lived a block from 282 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: where Paul Stein was murdered, because that's the main link 283 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: Rodelli's theory hinges on. One of the things that has 284 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: been a major problem with this story over the years 285 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: is that Microdelli contacted Armand Pelissetti, the police officer who 286 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: was the first to arrive at the crime scene in 287 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: San Francisco, and he was telling Armand Pellistti about his suspect, 288 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: and apparently Pellisetti was not impressed, and he was looking 289 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: for a quick and easy way to make Microdelli go away. 290 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 1: He appears to have told Microdelli that he stopped Cavalli 291 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: near the crime scene on the night of the murder, 292 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: that he spoke to him and cleared him as a suspect, 293 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: and therefore he had nothing to do with it and 294 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: Microdelli could just move on now. Cavali himself has denied 295 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: being that individual. Cavalli said, I was not stopped that night. 296 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: I was not spoken to by the police. I had 297 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: nothing to do with that. And he wasn't even sure 298 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: that he was in San Francisco that night. He was 299 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: being asked about this some decades later, so it's possible 300 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: that he could have been mistaken. But when I interviewed 301 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: armand Pealisetti myself, I asked him point blank, how did 302 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: you know that this was the individual in question that 303 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: you talked to that night? He had no recollection of 304 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: that specific name, He had no records, and he said, 305 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: at best, I think I told the instigators about it 306 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: that night. So there's no credible evidence that Cavalli was 307 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: at the crime scene that night, or that he was 308 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: seen or spoken to by anyone near the crime scene. 309 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: And if he was, the timing doesn't seem to support 310 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: the version of events as him being the murderer. In 311 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: order for him to have been out on the sidewalk 312 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: and talking to armand Pealisetti shortly after the murder, he 313 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: would have to have run inside his home, changed his clothes, 314 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: wipe the blood off his hands and his clothes or 315 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: whatever else, and then dashed back outside to beyond the 316 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: street in time to meet armand Pealisetti. There's no evidence 317 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: to support that claim, and there are many reasons to 318 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: doubt it. I interviewed shell Cavali several years before he died, 319 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: and he was very friendly. He was very polite, and 320 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 1: he was very happy to talk to me about this. 321 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: He made it clear to me that he was not 322 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: the Zodiac, that he didn't even understand and why he 323 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: was suspected in the first place. And then he said, 324 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: you know, if I could talk to this person who's 325 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: accusing me, I have no doubt that I could disabuse 326 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: him of this idea if we could just sit down 327 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: and he could get to know me. Here's a clip 328 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: of Michael Butterfield's interview with Cavali. Hen he thinks is me? 329 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: He does. Unfortunately, it's so silly and so ridiculous. It's 330 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: if it wasn't so insulting, it would be laughable, you know. 331 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: Christ So my idea, what would you say to him 332 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: if you did have him on the off? I don't 333 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: know where you get touch goofy idea? Why don't you 334 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 1: come out here and spend a few days with me 335 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: and see what kind of a person I am. You know, 336 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: I've been in business here for fifty five years. I've 337 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: been busy as hell the whole time. I haven't got time. 338 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: The only thing I've ever heard of a fly. I 339 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: contacted Mike Rohdelli and I said, Hey, your suspect wants 340 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: to talk to you, and they apparently arranged a meeting 341 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: and Microdelli went out to San Francisco to talk to Cavalli. 342 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: But that's when things went wrong. Cavally denied being the 343 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: man who was stopped on the street that night. According 344 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: to Microdelli, at least through his perception of things, that 345 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: was just proof that Cavali was lying there. So he 346 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: didn't listen to anything that Cavali said. Really after that, 347 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: the evidence indicates that Cavally was probably telling the truth 348 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: that he wasn't there that night, but through the eyes 349 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: of his accuser, that was just another reason to cast 350 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: suspicion on him. In two thousand two, Cavally voluntarily gave 351 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: a sample of his DNA to be compared to suspected 352 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: Zodiac data, and that DNA did not match. I just 353 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: did the DNA test and the police, my guy, who 354 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: was a friend of mine, a retired guy, said it's negative. 355 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: Forget it, and that's the end of it. That's all 356 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: I ever heard. The whole thing. Negative. You can forget it, 357 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: and a ship police forgot about me, and and that's it. 358 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: Now there are people who claim that that is not 359 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: really Zodiac DNA, and therefore the fact that it didn't 360 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: match a suspect doesn't mean much. But on the other hand, 361 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: you have to look at the fact that this was 362 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties. People didn't even know about DNA, and 363 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: they certainly didn't know the extent to which they might 364 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: have possibly left some evidence behind. There is a thing 365 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: called touch DNA where they can find DNA and something 366 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: just because you've touched it. So the fact that cavally 367 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: offered up a sample of his DNA for comparison. Can 368 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: be viewed as exculpatory and if you believe that, you know, 369 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: an innocent person would just say here's my d n A, 370 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: but a guilty person might have more reservations about handing 371 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: over that DNA if he knew that he was guilty. 372 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: In the end, Rudeli couldn't present any significant evidence to 373 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: implicate Cavalli. This is what Butterfield has to say about him. Well, 374 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: he isn't an incredibly interesting person if you look at 375 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: his background. He had an amazing life. He sent me 376 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 1: a copy of his memoir and I read it. It 377 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: was an incredible story. But he was also very happy 378 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: to talk to people about this and say, hey, I'm 379 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: not the zodiac. After this one all over the internet 380 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 1: for several years, I think he was maybe a little 381 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: more reluctant to talk about it because he didn't want 382 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 1: to add Field of the fire. But when he talked 383 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: to me, he was very open and he was very 384 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: surprised that someone could think he was a murderer. I 385 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: couldn't be any more innotentive. Newborn baby died, but speculation 386 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: about him continues. However, just a year before his death, 387 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: another theorist published a book that contained a different, unnamed suspect. 388 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: This time, the cover up in scandal was focused on 389 00:24:55,359 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: the Valleo Police Department. The next suspect comes from Lyndon Lafferty, 390 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: a longtime Valleo resident who took interest in the case. 391 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 1: His story, unlike many others, implicated the police. His suspect 392 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: was never named. Still, Lafferty wrote a book about his findings. 393 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: Butterfield explains the main reasons that Lyndon Lafferty thought this 394 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: individual could be the Zodiac was number one, of course, 395 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: that he looked like the infamous composite sketch of the Zodiac. 396 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: He apparently had some military background and some training in codes, 397 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: and there was the theory that he had known one 398 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 1: of the Zodiac victims, Darlene Barren. Darlene Barren had been 399 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: stalked by a mysterious stranger in the weeks and months 400 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: before she was killed, and some of Darlene's sisters identified 401 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: Grant as that individual. Darlene's sisters also have a long 402 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: and documented history of telling some pretty tall tales about this, 403 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: and they have identified at least five or six different 404 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: individuals as being the same individual stalker. There's not a 405 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: lot of reason to believe that this man did know 406 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: Darling Baron, but that was one of the reasons that 407 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: was presented to the police in the nineteen seventies when 408 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: they were examining this suspect, and there were some other 409 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: things like Lyndon Lafferty believed that some of the Zodiac 410 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: letters contained clues to Grant's identity. There was a Zodiac 411 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: letter in which he mentioned something about a basement and 412 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: being swamped out. Grant had a basement which was apparently flooded. 413 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: This individual owned a nineteen one white Chevrolet, which was 414 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: said to be similar to the car used by the 415 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: Zodiac at the Valeo attack, and this individual apparently hung 416 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: around a rest stop in the Valo area. At one 417 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: time he had some to face off with a highway 418 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: patrol officer and this was one of the reasons that 419 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: he came to the attention of Lyndon Lafferty. The Valeo 420 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: Police Department investigated this suspect in the late nineteen seventies 421 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: and did not find any evidence to implicate him in 422 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: the Zodiac crimes. Lyndon Lafferty and others who believed that 423 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: Grant was the Zodiac were not satisfied. They claimed that 424 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: there was some sort of cover up or interference from 425 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: a local judge, and that's why the title of Lyndon 426 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: Lafferty's book is The Silenced Badge, the notion that they 427 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: had identified the Zodiac but were somehow silenced by this 428 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: cover up in conspiracy. So it doesn't appear to be 429 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: any evidence to support that claim. It's understandable why people 430 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: become captivated with the Zodiac case. After fifty years, it 431 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: still hasn't been solved and continues to puzzle the police 432 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: and public alike. But what exactly separates police investigations and theories. 433 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: It's important to note that many Zodiac theorists who are 434 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: confronted with the fact that they really don't have any 435 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 1: credible evidence to implicate their suspects, are often asked, well, 436 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: if you're right, how come the police haven't arrested this person. 437 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: The familiar refrain seems to be, well, there was a 438 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: cover up. You see this with Gary Stewart and so 439 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: many other people who have accused their fathers. At the 440 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: end of the day, there's really no evidence there, but 441 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: they can't explain that away without having some sort of 442 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: conspiracy from the police department. Essentially, what they're saying is, 443 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: I'm right, my suspect was the Zodiac, but the police 444 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: refused to investigate. That becomes a handy excuse when you're 445 00:28:52,640 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: being criticized for the lack of evidence. Monster the Zodiac 446 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: Killer is a fifteen episode podcast hosted by Matt Frederick 447 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: and produced by iHeart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. Matt Frederick 448 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: and Alex Williams are executive producers on behalf of I 449 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: Heart Radio alongside producers Miranda Hawkins, Josh Thane, ben Kybrick, 450 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright are executive 451 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV alongside producers Meredith Steadman 452 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: and Christina Dana. Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set. 453 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: Make sure to catch the new season Monster DC Sniper. 454 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: New episodes are available every Thursday. Search for and subscribed 455 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: Monster DC Sniper on the i Heeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 456 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.