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Speaker 1: All right, everyone, thanks for tuning in. You know you

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Speaker 1: don't tune into podcasts. Thanks for downloading the Meat Eater

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Speaker 1: podcast we're recording right now. Out of I was thinking,

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Speaker 1: this whole area is Phoenix. You guys got it all subdivided.

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Speaker 1: It's Phoenix, but it's it's Phoenix about scotts Stale, Greater Phoenix. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're in the Greater Phoenix area, which is great in Scottsdale.

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Speaker 1: I'm here with yo. Honestly, tell us who's often with us?

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Speaker 1: And before anything happens, I wanna tell Yanna's plug your

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Speaker 1: T shirt company. We've done so many podcasts. You never

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Speaker 1: plug your T shirt company. Janice has a T shirt company.

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Speaker 1: It's called a Hunt to Eat. Go buy. If everyone

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Speaker 1: in this who listens to this goes and buys one

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Speaker 1: of Yanni's T shirts. Who's a constant presence on the

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Speaker 1: media podcast, Yanni will be He'll be rich. Maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: give us just like ten days. Oh no, when this

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Speaker 1: air is, it's gonna be. That's what I'm doing now. Perfect.

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Speaker 1: He's been having printing problems, but don't think that he

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Speaker 1: doesn't put out the high s quality T shirt possible.

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Speaker 1: Hunt to Eat dot Com hunt eat dot com with

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Speaker 1: a two though numerous. Oh. The website is t O

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Speaker 1: to eat h U n T t O e A T.

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Speaker 1: You go there. He's got different shirts they say hunt

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Speaker 1: to eat on him. You buy one. They're not expensive,

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Speaker 1: they're cool looking shirts. Yanni gets a bunch of money. Um,

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Speaker 1: you get an awesome shirt that says hunt to eat

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Speaker 1: on you get different states. You guys still have what

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Speaker 1: you have? Colorado pretty slim right now it's Colorado. And

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Speaker 1: then we have a generic Hunty. We've got a couple

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Speaker 1: of coming down the pipe, so hopefully we'll have them

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Speaker 1: out before hunting season. I don't know why I'm out

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Speaker 1: selling Joannie on his own T shirt company, but he's

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Speaker 1: just go there and get a hunt Eat T shirt.

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Speaker 1: I can start talking about that all the time. There

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Speaker 1: thing you ought to do before we get too fire

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Speaker 1: into this is uh mediator podcast is in many ways,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's the offspring in some way of a show.

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Speaker 1: There's a TV show, Meat Eater. I'm in it. It's

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Speaker 1: on Sportsman Channel and if you want to go just

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Speaker 1: get it without having the monkey around with TV. You

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Speaker 1: can go to meat Eater dot vh X dot TV

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Speaker 1: and downloading stream Meat Eaters until your heart's content. I

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Speaker 1: don't know we have. I don't know how many there's

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Speaker 1: you know how many we've done sixty some episodes. There's

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Speaker 1: six full volumes, six full volumes on there. And put

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Speaker 1: in the offer code meat either podcast. You get five

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Speaker 1: bucks off. Um, you get five bucks off in the volume.

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Speaker 1: So then you put your hunt, eat Yanni Patel's T

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Speaker 1: shirt and watch met your episodes. You're saving money, You're

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Speaker 1: helping the planet. Um. We're joined by Dark Holburn and

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Speaker 1: Jay Scott, two guides that I know who operate down here,

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Speaker 1: and you get Colburn and Scott outfitters. If you were

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Speaker 1: gonna go on a guided hunt, Um, you this is

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Speaker 1: gonna sound like hyperbole. And I'm telling you, like I

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Speaker 1: have a vested interest in Yanni's selling a bunch of

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Speaker 1: T shirts because I hang out with them all the time.

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Speaker 1: I have a vested interest in you downloading me Eatier episodes. Um.

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Speaker 1: For for various reasons, I have no vested interest in

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Speaker 1: saying that if you were gonna go on a hunt

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Speaker 1: and you managed to get Jay and Scott to guide you,

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Speaker 1: you're in the best possible shape because they don't do

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Speaker 1: it for money. They just do because they like it. Well,

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Speaker 1: we do it for money, you guys, they do, they do.

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Speaker 1: But once you hear about how these guys operate, it's

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Speaker 1: sort of like what they do, you'll realize that it

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Speaker 1: goes way beyond that. And UM, give me what you

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Speaker 1: guys consider yourselves. A spokesman for Colburn the Scott authors,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get into a lot of things that these

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Speaker 1: guys are involved in. I'll do this before you get

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Speaker 1: into you're you're involved, and I would say four primary pursuits.

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Speaker 1: Google to turkeys in Mexico. M hm. Okay, Now, just

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Speaker 1: to give a thing like turkeys in the US. All

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Speaker 1: turkeys in the US are regarded as from a genetic standpoint,

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Speaker 1: are regarded as one species. Okay, it's like the American

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Speaker 1: wild turkey. But wild turkeys are divided up into Rio's,

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Speaker 1: Rio Grand turkeys, Miriam's turkeys, Gould's turkeys, um Eastern turkeys,

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Speaker 1: Osceola's the Ostiola's are in South Florida, and it's kind

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Speaker 1: of the most that's the most dubious subspecies because there's

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Speaker 1: no genetic barrier between Eastern turkeys and Osceola is just

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Speaker 1: like a line. You just draw a line like basical

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Speaker 1: where around Orlando or something. You just like draw a

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Speaker 1: line across the state. And we all disagree that that

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Speaker 1: it's Osceolas on one side of the line, Eastern is

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Speaker 1: on the r side of the line. And there are

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Speaker 1: some morphological differences like that they have some the feather, yeah,

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Speaker 1: different color tones to them. When you get into the Goulds,

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Speaker 1: Rio's and Miriams, you did have real genetic barriers separating

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Speaker 1: these different populations out. The hardest one to get by

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Speaker 1: far as a ghouls, and the best place to go

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Speaker 1: to get a ghouls is in Mexico. And within that,

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Speaker 1: the best place to go do it is down with

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Speaker 1: the places that the jay hunts, so they do google

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Speaker 1: turkeys in Mexico. KU's deer in Mexico and Cou's deer

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Speaker 1: are kind of the only real valid subspecies of white tails.

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Speaker 1: Then elk in a handful of select units here in Arizona,

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Speaker 1: the numbers of which are unit nine, Unit ten, and unite.

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Speaker 1: That's Jay Scott talking now. Jay, I'm just trying to

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Speaker 1: do a quick wrap up, so let me keep yapping

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Speaker 1: from that. I don't mean to like you're the gas

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Speaker 1: and I'm doing talking about. I just want to lay

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Speaker 1: the groundwork here so you get this thing where that

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Speaker 1: you get these like these units. But it's not like

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Speaker 1: giving up a secret because it takes forever to draw

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Speaker 1: a unit and when we get around to speak to

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Speaker 1: that for a minute about what it requires to be

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Speaker 1: able to hunt one of those units. The fourth thing

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Speaker 1: these guys are involved in is hunting desert big horns.

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Speaker 1: That's correct, but only a little teeny bit, like only

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Speaker 1: one or two clients every year, right, Yeah, Well, there's

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Speaker 1: very few tags for desert bighorn sheep in the state.

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Speaker 1: I want to say, there's probably only seventy five tags.

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Speaker 1: That's a rough number, and it's very hard, very challenging

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Speaker 1: to get the tag, and you know a lot of

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Speaker 1: those people don't go guided, but if you do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are less than I counted it up, and I

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Speaker 1: can't remember what I counted. There are less than a

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Speaker 1: thousand big horn tags in the US. Sounds about right.

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Speaker 1: Way mosty's big horn tags are given now is they're

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Speaker 1: given out through a lottery drawing where interested parties, interested

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Speaker 1: dudes send their money with an application and they do

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Speaker 1: like a lottery, they pull names out of a hat

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Speaker 1: and give those guys tags. But there's a couple other ways.

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Speaker 1: There's there's two other ways big horn tags. There's two

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Speaker 1: other primary ways. Like everything is just gets endlessly complicated,

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Speaker 1: but there's two other primary ways of big horn tags

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Speaker 1: given out. You give out a big horn tag through

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Speaker 1: a raffle where you can buy as many tickets as

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Speaker 1: you want for five or ten dollars a piece in

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Speaker 1: whatever state you choose to participate in the raffle, and

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Speaker 1: then that gives you multiple options and then they draw

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Speaker 1: a name out of that and the odds on raffles

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Speaker 1: can be dismal. Or they have a thing called a

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Speaker 1: Governor's tag or auction tag where to raise money for

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Speaker 1: big horn conservation. It's very expect like big horns are

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Speaker 1: missing from a lot of their native range. Is very

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Speaker 1: expensive to like get big horns and get them where

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Speaker 1: you want to give them and make the habitat right

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Speaker 1: and protect them and have enforcement and research. And one

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Speaker 1: of the ways they pay for all this is they

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Speaker 1: sell a tag. Every state, most western states will every

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Speaker 1: years sell a big horn tag and that's called the

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Speaker 1: Governor's tag or the arc and TEG. And you guys

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Speaker 1: have done that we have. We actually three years in

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Speaker 1: a row we guided the raffle hunter here in Arizona.

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Speaker 1: And the interesting thing in Arizona the raffle tag. You

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Speaker 1: can only hunt the nelson I sheep in Arizona. There's

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Speaker 1: two types of big horn. There's the Mexicana and there's

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Speaker 1: the nelson I. The nelson I primarily are located those

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Speaker 1: are both regarded as deserts. Both deserts. There's no distinction

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Speaker 1: in like Boone and Crockett are Pope and Young or

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Speaker 1: any of the record books. There's no distinction between the two.

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Speaker 1: But the nelson I primarily are in the north and

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Speaker 1: west part of the state, kind of northwest by Kingman's

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Speaker 1: basically the upper center. And um, the raffle hunter can

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Speaker 1: hunt nelson I sheep. There's one little section down in

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Speaker 1: a unit sixteen A that there are some mexicanas that

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Speaker 1: that move back and forth. But for three years darn

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Speaker 1: I both guided the raffle hunter, and um, how did

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Speaker 1: you find the guy? Like just I just want to

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Speaker 1: clear very real quicken. We say the raffle hunter the

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Speaker 1: tag in Arizona that was given out to the guy

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Speaker 1: that won, like the door prize type raffle thing. But

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Speaker 1: how many those raffle takes do they sell? I don't

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Speaker 1: know exactly how many they sold. I know that last year,

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Speaker 1: when the third year we did it, we harvested the

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Speaker 1: largest ram ever shot, not only on the raffle tag,

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Speaker 1: but the largest Nelson I ever shot in the state

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Speaker 1: of Arizona. Because of that, the following year, when the

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Speaker 1: raffle tag sales, I think it raised a hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty hundred seventy thousand dollars, So it does almost as

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Speaker 1: good as the governor's are well. And that was the thing.

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Speaker 1: I think it brought thirty or thirty five thousand more.

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Speaker 1: And I don't want to say it's because we shot

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Speaker 1: a big ram, but I mean people too got You

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Speaker 1: got people's attention. Yeah, so you got. So go back

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Speaker 1: to that year. I guess we're in talk about big

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Speaker 1: horns first, because it just came up. Go back to that.

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Speaker 1: You're like, how that went down where a raffle guy, like,

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Speaker 1: how did you How did the raffle guy come to

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Speaker 1: hire you? And what did he hire you to do? Well?

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Speaker 1: The first year was Donny Young from Mississippi, and he

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Speaker 1: had actually called around and talked to several outfitters and

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Speaker 1: talked to both Dar and I and emailed us and

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Speaker 1: we sent him photos and such, and he kind of

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Speaker 1: interviewed us and he chose us and we actually went

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Speaker 1: out on that first year and shot. He got the

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Speaker 1: largest ram shot on on the Raffle tag and UM.

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Speaker 1: The second year we had UM Larry Spillers from Texas.

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Speaker 1: He interviewed us the same thing, interviewed other outfitters and

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Speaker 1: UM went out and he got a really nice ram.

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Speaker 1: He had just chattered his ankle and I think it's

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Speaker 1: his ankle and his foot and stuff. Didn't have screws

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Speaker 1: softball and he actually made a great stock even though

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Speaker 1: it killed him to get up there and shot a

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Speaker 1: really nice ram I think the third largest ever shot. Well.

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Speaker 1: Then the third year that we did the tag, Claude

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Speaker 1: Warren from Maine, UM called us and hired us pretty

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Speaker 1: much pretty quick. And he's a Raffle winner and he's

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Speaker 1: from Saco, Maine and just a great guy and and

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Speaker 1: he's the one that shot that really giant UM desert

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Speaker 1: big horn and Nelson, I, what do you want want

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Speaker 1: a guy like that? What do like like? What is

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Speaker 1: the package you you bring to someone when he's won

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Speaker 1: this thing. He's won this tag, the once in a

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Speaker 1: lifetime tag. You're never gonna be able to do something

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Speaker 1: like that. Again, what do you guys do to go

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Speaker 1: like guide that trip? Like talk about sort of the

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Speaker 1: time you spend and how your schedule plays out over

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Speaker 1: those months, because that's the thing that's most interesting to me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's so cool about those tags? As they start um

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Speaker 1: August fifteenth and go to August fourteenth of the following year.

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Speaker 1: So it's a three sixty day tag. It was a

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Speaker 1: normal big oar and tag. Like, there is no normal

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Speaker 1: big oar and tags days here thirty days. So if

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Speaker 1: you actually drew the tag. The month in December is

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Speaker 1: the sheep season here in Arizona. But the raffle guy

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Speaker 1: gets a year, he gets a year, and they usually

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Speaker 1: find out in July. Um, I want to say mid

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Speaker 1: July for the fall for the upcoming year. So he

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Speaker 1: knew a month ahead of time that his hunt actually

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Speaker 1: started on August. Well, the raffle uh starts on August fifteenth.

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Speaker 1: Well obviously here in Arizona, you know, and over by

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Speaker 1: Kingman and Lake Havasu in some of these places where

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Speaker 1: the Nelson Are. You know, it's a d D eighteen

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Speaker 1: hundred twenty degrees out. So what's that country look like? Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's very beautiful country, but very rugged, um jagged cliffs,

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Speaker 1: and and it's pretty desolate, very desolate. I mean a

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Speaker 1: lot of times you go out there and you just

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Speaker 1: you can't believe that a sheep even or an animal

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Speaker 1: could live there. Um but just rock and sand, well

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Speaker 1: not as much sand, but granite and rock, and I

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Speaker 1: guess there is some sand, you know, real steep, um

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Speaker 1: jagged peaks and um, just beautiful country but but inhospitable

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Speaker 1: for sure. So you can't do it in August. That's

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Speaker 1: the thing. I mean, you know, your hunt starts August five. Hunt.

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Speaker 1: But what we try and typically tell those raffle hunters

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Speaker 1: is about October is not only a great time to

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Speaker 1: go out and see a lot of sheep and the

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Speaker 1: Nelson I's typically are rutting really good from like, oh

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Speaker 1: the whole month of October and the whole month of

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Speaker 1: November they're still running really good. And so all three

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Speaker 1: of those hunts we generally hunted from like the fifteenth

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Speaker 1: of October to like November. That was kind of the window,

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Speaker 1: the thirty day window when we wanted to get our

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Speaker 1: hunts done, and that's the main thing, is prior to

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Speaker 1: the general season starting. So since they drew a year

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Speaker 1: long tag, that's great, but we also like to be

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Speaker 1: able to hunt before the general season starts. So you

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Speaker 1: know for a fact that you will not see another hunter. Well,

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Speaker 1: you won't see another desert cheap hunter. You might see

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Speaker 1: some guy hunt deer or whatever. Yea, really hardly ever

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Speaker 1: see anybody ever, which makes it awesome because you know,

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Speaker 1: the sheep are rutting and there's a lot of them.

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Speaker 1: The units we hunt a lot of the fifteen units

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Speaker 1: and and such, there's just a lot of rams. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we would see sometimes a hundred sheep in a day

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Speaker 1: and see you know what rams in a day maybe

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Speaker 1: more um and they're running and there's nobody else out there.

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Speaker 1: So it's just but I should point out that during

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Speaker 1: much of this the hunter is not even out there.

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Speaker 1: Well the raffle hunt. Let me back up. Usually Dar

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Speaker 1: and I would go and scout for ten days to

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Speaker 1: two weeks prior to the season and we would just

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Speaker 1: go up there and we would just scout until the

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Speaker 1: hunter showed up, and then we would go and hunt

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Speaker 1: from there and we you guys camp out and just

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Speaker 1: look at rams. Yeah, just evaluate and look at rams, video, photograph. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: it's awesome. They're running around. It's a great time. So

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Speaker 1: you just like have a camp set up, get up

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Speaker 1: in the morning, go watch wild Boy, wake up, watch

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Speaker 1: you just keep it. Tell you what you saw. So

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Speaker 1: how many rams during that during that pre hunt period,

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Speaker 1: how many rams might you locate? I mean it, I

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Speaker 1: would say you could look at fifties, sixty, seventy eight rams, um,

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Speaker 1: depending on whether you know you're seeing ten anywhere from

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Speaker 1: Let's say you make a big hike and maybe you

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Speaker 1: go into country and there's not many sheep. Maybe you

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Speaker 1: see seven or eight and you could see thirty. It

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Speaker 1: just depends on really where you go. Um. And one

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Speaker 1: thing we really try to do is photograph and video

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Speaker 1: different rams. So we have a basically a catalog video

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Speaker 1: cattory of all the rams characteristics, you know, the flaring ones,

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Speaker 1: the ones that curl and tip up, um. So that

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Speaker 1: when the hunter gets there, he can go that's the

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Speaker 1: one I want to go after. What country was that

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Speaker 1: one in? And that that's the one we really like

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Speaker 1: do you feel that you find all the rams? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely not, no way. I mean, so there's stuff you

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Speaker 1: don't know, ye, even after all that, And I mean

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Speaker 1: that that's half the fun of it is having where

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Speaker 1: you don't know what's there and what's around the next

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Speaker 1: the next you know, bend, and what's up over the

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Speaker 1: next hill. I mean, the country's way too rugged to

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Speaker 1: feel like you could have inventory of every ram. Now,

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Speaker 1: there are certain units in Arizona where after a certain

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Speaker 1: amount of time you can probably get a pretty good

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Speaker 1: inventory of every ram that's in there. But the sheep

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Speaker 1: moved too, so you could I mean you could be

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Speaker 1: there for a week and go back a week later

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Speaker 1: in some different rams of you know, moved into that area.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like there's big horns in there that

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Speaker 1: no one's there? Could feasibly be a big horn in

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Speaker 1: there that no one's ever looked at? I doubt it.

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Speaker 1: I doubt it too, But I mean you take like

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Speaker 1: fIF D where we actually um harvested h two out

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Speaker 1: of three of the rams. Well, I guess fifteen D

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Speaker 1: south Um the unit got split. But there's you know,

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Speaker 1: I think they've surveyed five hundred and some sheep and

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Speaker 1: the last survey we were there actually three years in

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Speaker 1: a row for their surveys, and I want to say

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Speaker 1: they surveyed the mean it's buy a helicopter anywhere between

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Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty and I think the last year

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Speaker 1: we're there it was close to five hundred and something sheep. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're looking at a lot of country, and

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Speaker 1: you know, with the raffle tag you can hunt anywhere

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Speaker 1: any of those units. So you could basically go from

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Speaker 1: you know, the Bill Williams River at the bottom end

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Speaker 1: of sixteen A and you could go all the way

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Speaker 1: up through the Kaiabab and literally cover hundreds of miles

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Speaker 1: of country if you wanted to. Um to back up

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Speaker 1: a little bit, the first year we went out there

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Speaker 1: and we actually set a camp darnay. Then we actually

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Speaker 1: met a guy there in um Golden Valley, Fred Ashurst,

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Speaker 1: whose darn eyes now dear friend, and he just basically

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Speaker 1: got this awesome property with this house and he's got

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Speaker 1: this garage and concrete floors, and he invited us, hey,

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Speaker 1: just make base camp out of here. So actually the

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Speaker 1: last two years we did the raffle hunt, we just

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Speaker 1: stayed at Fred's, which made it great because he actually

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Speaker 1: built a shower for us in a bathroom and I

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Speaker 1: mean I think the burring our cots out and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean we're there for you know, anywhere from twenty

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Speaker 1: one to you know, thirty days straight and um just

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Speaker 1: looking at cheap it's it's great without without get into

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get too personally. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to get too personal, not personally in like your personal life.

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Speaker 1: But how in the world do you build for something

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Speaker 1: like that. That's the thing. I mean, you if you

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Speaker 1: break it down by per hour, what Dar and I charge.

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Speaker 1: I mean we you know, we're doing it because we

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Speaker 1: love it, and we're doing it because really that's an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to hunt and really look out there and find

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Speaker 1: what's the unknown, and basically it covers our expenses to

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Speaker 1: be out there. But I remember, like, just to get

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Speaker 1: a sense for how much these guys look around. Um,

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Speaker 1: I remember conversation that I have with j I think

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Speaker 1: when we're hunting goold turkeys of Mexico. I had. I

347
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Speaker 1: was talking about how I've seen while hounting, I've run

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Speaker 1: into three mountain lions. And I remember asking Jay if

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Speaker 1: he sees many mountain lions and I think at the time,

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Speaker 1: I think you said, right now I'm looking for number

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Speaker 1: thirty two or something like that, and now it's looking

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Speaker 1: for number thirty eight. Well, we saw two down in

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Speaker 1: Mexico couster hunting. I actually just saw the one um

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Speaker 1: darsa on both. But um, yeah, if you're really have

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Speaker 1: a way to measure how much time someone spends. Um,

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Speaker 1: if you're if you're like like trying to like quantify

357
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Speaker 1: not just quantity, but quality of hours spent hunting in

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Speaker 1: this kind of area, it would be like a good

359
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 1: way to measure, like, well, how many mountain lions have

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Speaker 1: you seen? Because it's like not only is it how

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Speaker 1: much you're doing, about how good you're doing it, you know. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I will say that probably of the lions

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Speaker 1: that I've seen have been in Mexico maybe, And you

364
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Speaker 1: know it, I've seen a bunch of them, most all

365
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Speaker 1: of them with my binoculars. Um. You know, we're getting

366
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Speaker 1: up on big purchase and looking over tons of country

367
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Speaker 1: and doing it, you know, days on and looking for deer. Um.

368
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Speaker 1: But you know, people think, you know, the lions would

369
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Speaker 1: be hard to see. Most every lion I've seen, I

370
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Speaker 1: mean as soon as you see it, it's just boom,

371
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Speaker 1: that's a lot. And it's not like they're hiding. I

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Speaker 1: mean you just see him playing this day there reminds

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Speaker 1: me of something that that the writer. There's a really

374
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Speaker 1: good Hunt writer. No one really knows about the guy,

375
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Speaker 1: Duncan Gilchrist. Um, he's got a book Hunt High but

376
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 1: that he doesn't mean Hunt Stone, he means Hunt the

377
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Speaker 1: High Country. And he's just he's like this really like

378
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Speaker 1: Duncan Gilchrist was sort of like an accidentally good writer.

379
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Speaker 1: I think he accidentally almost wrote like Hemingway, like really

380
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Speaker 1: sparse and kind of beautiful. But he was a timber

381
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: cruiser by trade, but he was a big game guy too,

382
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 1: and he um in one of his passages he was saying, like,

383
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Speaker 1: all the time you spend he's a airs a lot,

384
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Speaker 1: all the time you spend being like, oh is that

385
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 1: a bear? You know, He's like, there's never been a

386
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 1: time when I've seen a bear where I thought, oh

387
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Speaker 1: was that a bear? And had to turn out to

388
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 1: be a bear. It just is and you know it,

389
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 1: you know, like a stump don't turn into a bear.

390
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 1: It's like you're like, there's a bear and that's what

391
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,439
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, I think dar would agree with lions.

392
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Speaker 1: I mean you just see them in there they are.

393
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 1: It's just like that's what it is. Man. There's you

394
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 1: know interesting about Duncan. He was really big into big horns,

395
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,439
Speaker 1: filming them. You heard of this guy he died filming

396
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 1: big horns. A friend of mine, it's more than an acquaintance. Mind.

397
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 1: An outdoor writer named Darryl Gadbo was writing a thing

398
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 1: it was with Duncan when Duncan had a heart attack

399
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 1: and died. I remember Darryloo said, um, it was like

400
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: he just left, like Duncan just left. And he looked

401
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 1: at him and said, Duncan, where'd you go? Just like

402
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 1: was this gone? Yeah? On the mountain films? What a

403
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: way to go? Though? He was, he was big and

404
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: he guys, you guys, if you haven't looked at the stuff,

405
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 1: you shoul look at it because he's huge into that stuff.

406
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: But when you're so, when you're out like surveying the

407
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: ground for sheep, are you looking at stuffing? A lot

408
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,959
Speaker 1: of guys would maybe miss is it like is it

409
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 1: hard to find sheep when you're up glass? And for

410
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 1: him the country can be hard. I mean it can

411
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 1: be pretty physical. Um, but I think with sheep one

412
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 1: of the things Jay would probably agree. We don't spend

413
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: all the time sitting in one spot looking. We cover

414
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 1: a lot of country like glass for a little bit.

415
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 1: If we don't see something, we're on in the next spot,

416
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 1: So do not really like who's where? You know, you

417
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: still moved, But you wouldn't sit all day looking. You know,

418
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 1: at one hillside we look. If we don't see him,

419
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 1: we're off. So you feel like you can rule out areas.

420
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Speaker 1: Definitely one of the biggest pieces of advice I give

421
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: people all the time on sheep is and and I'm

422
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,120
Speaker 1: notorious Daris too for having tin power. You know, saskis

423
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: around her neck or whatever we're using, and you just

424
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: pop up, you pan it real fast, and a lot

425
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: of times you're going to see them right away. Those

426
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 1: white butts of the sheep will stick out. And I

427
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 1: think from acousta mentality, you know, you hike up to

428
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: a high spot and you sit there and you work

429
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 1: it over in glass meticulously all day. As a sheep hunter,

430
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 1: I'm kind of the opposite. I go up to a

431
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 1: high point, I cover it all, I move over a bit,

432
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: I cover this area, I turn around, so I basically

433
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: cover three sixty and maybe I'll do it twice. If

434
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 1: I don't see him, boom, I'm going over hiking over

435
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 1: to another high point and do the same thing. But

436
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: because sheep are nomadic and because they move around very

437
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: very much more than any other animal we hunt um moving.

438
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: Because it's such big country, you have to move with

439
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: your eyes and with your feet, and you know, rule

440
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: out country. Move cover the backside, cover the front side,

441
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: go to a whole new area. Because just like unlimited

442
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 1: amounts of stuff to look, ms will be you know,

443
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 1: here one day and you know, fifteen miles away two

444
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: days later. The I always say, the worst place to

445
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 1: look for a bigger m is the last place you saw.

446
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: I'm not saying they won't always cycle back to that

447
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: area at some point in time, but they just they

448
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: just move here and there. They have their nomadic and

449
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: they're not like they're not like a deer I would say,

450
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 1: where they're hiding from you or laying down there. They're

451
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: just cheep. They're just up moving around and like just said,

452
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: if you see him, you see him. If you don't move,

453
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: they're not hiding from you can't sit deer when they

454
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 1: when a deer sees you acoust or they'll either hunker

455
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: down or they'll take off running. Cheaper curious animals, and

456
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: they do have that barrier like an antelope, where you

457
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 1: know you can get four or five hundred yards from them.

458
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 1: As long as you keep that distance, they're just gonna

459
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: let you. You know, they feel comfortable with that range.

460
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: Do you ever go out and find a big horn?

461
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: You're like, Wow, that's a giant big horns. Some guy

462
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: had love to kill that big horn and then you

463
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: never find him again. Oh, I mean absolutely. As nomadic

464
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: as they are, yeah, I mean they're very hard to

465
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 1: keep track of. Depending on the country um and their habitat.

466
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: You know, eventually you'll find them again if you look

467
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: for long enough. I mean, so you got a guy,

468
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 1: just to get back to how this how this whole

469
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: thing plays out. You get a guy, you got a client,

470
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 1: he's gonna come out and hunt. How many days is

471
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 1: the guy gonna come out and hunt compared to how

472
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: many days you guys are gonna be out there looking?

473
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: So when he gets there, you know what to show them.

474
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: It depends like on the raffle hunts or the general

475
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: season hunts. You know, we put in usually a minimum

476
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: of you know, a couple of weeks of scouting before

477
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: they get there. On the raffle hunts, we always liked

478
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: our thing is we like to be there like the

479
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: fourteen days before they got there, so that we knew

480
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: immediately what the sheep were doing. You know, scouting a

481
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: month earlier, two months earlier, the sheep are going to

482
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: be completely moved. So it's not like scouting you know

483
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: a deer that's got a home range or an elk

484
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: that has a home range. You know, like I said,

485
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: if you spotted a big round, you're probably better opt

486
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: to go to completely different side of the mountain. So

487
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: we feel like right before the hunt is the most

488
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: important time with sheep to be scouting. And then how

489
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: many sheep might you find? Like you know what the

490
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: guy wants like like like you know the way like

491
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 1: at this level when someone wants to go on big horns.

492
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: I'm talking to the audience as Jake. At this point,

493
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 1: when someone's gonna go big horns, they got like a

494
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 1: they get like a number in their head. You know

495
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: you're gonna do this once, right, and they'll want a

496
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: ram of certain size. So like what's a giant or

497
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: you know, what's the bottoment, Like what would be like

498
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: a big you know, like a big desert big horn

499
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: that everyone would agree is a big, big one. But

500
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 1: sometimes it's a look thing too, right, It's not always

501
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,239
Speaker 1: just a number. Well, and I can very unit by

502
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, I mean some units don't have what we

503
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: say are big rams and they just never have. And

504
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: but the raffle guy's not gonna go to that unit though, No,

505
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: but big in the raffle units. It's you can't compare

506
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: big in the Rathley unit versus some of the general units. Yeah,

507
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: Like years ago, like I think it was two thousand five,

508
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: my brother drew a big horn Rocky Mountain, big orange

509
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: tag in Montana. Now the biggest you know, some of

510
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: the biggest Rocky Mountain big orangs in the country come

511
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: out of Unit six eighty on the Missouri River, Montana.

512
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 1: He didn't draw one there. He drew one far away

513
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 1: that you're just you're never gonna get one of those

514
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: rams where he drew ram. So like when we showed

515
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: it to the biologist down there, he's like, well, it's

516
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: a big ram. No way, is that a big ram

517
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: in Unit six eight. It's just like the ring here

518
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: with like the nelson I. Typically the nelson I are

519
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: not near as big as the Mexicans. The Mexicans are

520
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: basically from that same line Bill Bill Williams River to

521
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: the south, you've got western Arizona by Courtside and and

522
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: Yuma and then um, you know, some of the biggest

523
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: rams in the world desert desert cheaper right here out

524
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: of Phoenix and Unit two and twenty four. Right along

525
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: these lakes there's Soro Canyon and Apache Lake and some

526
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: of the biggest, most giant Mexican rams ever be taken

527
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: or come right out of here, just you know, forty

528
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: five minutes from our house here. Um. But you can't

529
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: really compare a Nelson I with the Mexicana. They're separately,

530
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: you know, Like what you were saying. You would show

531
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: what is a big nelson I to someone that hunts Mexicana,

532
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: and they would it's they're just not as big. The

533
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: Mexican rams um are just a bigger ram, bigger base,

534
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: just bigger score wise, even bigger than the big ones

535
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: you guys have gotten. Well, when Claude Warren shot is ram,

536
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: it to give you an idea, growth scored a hundred

537
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: and eighty five and three eights, which that's a giant

538
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: even for Mexican UM. But it was the largest nelson

539
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: I ever shot in the state of Arizona. So you know,

540
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: that's a freak. It was a freak. Normally about a

541
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: hundred and six hundred and seventy in nelson I is

542
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: a really big ram that you've really done something like

543
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: Dars hunter. This year we had a hunter in the

544
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: general season UM and we hunted in the same unit

545
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: where Claude shot hit ram and he actually got a

546
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: really big ram, the biggest nelson I in the state

547
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: of Arizona this year, and it was a hundred and

548
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: seventy five and what four eight's gross And that was

549
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: the biggest nelson I shot, which last year was and

550
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: three eights even our ram this year, UM, Bob O'Connor's

551
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: ram was a giant, but it was you know, it's

552
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: ten inches smaller than Claud's. To give you an idea,

553
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: all right, everyone, I know you're enjoying the Meat Eater

554
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: podcast and you're especially enjoying it because it's free. And

555
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: to keep it that way, we got to take a

556
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,960
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557
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560
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563
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566
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569
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572
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573
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574
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577
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: have a client coming out, would you go down and

578
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,479
Speaker 1: look at all those sheets? Still, I don't know, if

579
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: i'd drive four hours, I'd probably drive out here an

580
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: hour and look at she go way over there, and

581
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: then you can so that when the guy comes out,

582
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: the client comes out, you present him with your findings. Yeah,

583
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: we show him all the pictures in the video and

584
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: and a lot of times, um, we'll be emailing them

585
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: and sending them little snippets of video the whole time

586
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: when he's at home when we're off scouting, and what's

587
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: his take on this? Love it? You know, and they

588
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: start naming round And I think that's one of the

589
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: reasons that we've booked that hunt so much and people

590
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: like us because A talk to the hunters before and

591
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: they're saying, I got emails every day of all the

592
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: rams and they just love it, you know, the documentation.

593
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: It drives them crazy though, because they're back home and

594
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: we're out there looking at cheap But why are they

595
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: back home? Well, they could be out there, but when

596
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: we set aside, like let's because he's not gonna have

597
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: a month that he doesn't. Yeah, so who's got a month.

598
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: We usually set aside two weeks for that hunt, and

599
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: we say, look, if we don't find what you want

600
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: UM in that time framed, and we can always come

601
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: back out and keep hunting UM. But it kills him

602
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: when we're out scouting and sending them pictures or rams

603
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: and and uh, they're at home. So you tell the

604
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: hunter he's still You tell him to come out for

605
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: two weeks. We usually planned two weeks on that hunt. Yes, minimum,

606
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: I mean by that point you know this, this is

607
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: a two prompt question. At that point, you know the

608
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: ram you're gonna look for when the gay gets out there?

609
00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: And in square miles how much? How do you know

610
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: where that ram is? Well, what we try and do

611
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: is see where the ram. A lot of times we'll

612
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: watch him and he'll be here, and he'll be here,

613
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: and he'll be here, and he'll be here, and we

614
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: kind of connect the dots that this is the this

615
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: is the mountain range or this, these are the certain

616
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,239
Speaker 1: peaks that we've seen the ram on um. You know

617
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: clouds ram. You know, I I found Claude's ram, Fred

618
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: and I found Claude's ram together, and I saw him

619
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: that day, and I saw him the next morning. And

620
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: then I was scouting ahead of time, ahead of the

621
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: before I was even planning to come scout. You're scouting. Yeah,

622
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: I was scouting for the scouting trip and we had

623
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: him schedule to come out in November one to hunt

624
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: from the first Well, I found this Ram and I

625
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: brought him back, showed a video of Dar and everything,

626
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: and we started looking and it just started eating on

627
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: us that we need to get up there. So I

628
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: turned around and went up there. Well, I looked for

629
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: fourteen days and we couldn't find Ram. You're kid meat.

630
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: So they're like, well they move around and there they

631
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: cover a lot of country. Did you ever find him again?

632
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: That's the one with shot That was the one the

633
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 1: day he got killed fourteen days later. Was there for

634
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: fourteen days on that one? Now the hunter showed up

635
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: on um. I think it was his sixth or seventh day, um,

636
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: because we actually bumped his days up. So you had

637
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: seen it. You had seen the Ram, saw it again,

638
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: video him the loss of for fourteen days. Couldn't find

639
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: him for fourteen days? And how hard are you looking

640
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: for it? It's hard? It's darn the only way that

641
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: these two look at the sunk down as if we

642
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: lost our wedding ring out on the side of the hill.

643
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: I mean, like just to give you here, I hunted

644
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: turkeys with these guys. And Jay likes to leave boat

645
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: three am for if it is a very short if

646
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: it's a very short drive on private property, Jay likes

647
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: to leave about three am and get out in the woods.

648
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: And we had camera with us, as we want to do,

649
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: and we had to put tape over a little red

650
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: light that's the size of a pinhead on the camera.

651
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: And then Jay gets what best we described a sort

652
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: of a low disposition against the tree and just sits

653
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: there and doesn't even kind of move until daybreak. I

654
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: think a lot of times you could say what we

655
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: do as a little extreme. But I think the reason

656
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: that darn I had the success we had is we

657
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: try and cover all the bases, and we try and

658
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: leave no stunt stone unturned, and we you know, the

659
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: little things like the light. I mean, I don't want

660
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: to ruin the morning hunt for you because he sees,

661
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: you know, the little was just the controllable stuff. No,

662
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: I totally understand. I'm not like hacking that I understand

663
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: it respected. And it's like there's so many things you

664
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: don't control, like where that ram is gonna wander too,

665
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: Why not have it be that everything you can control

666
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: you just address so that it's only going to be

667
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: the noncontrollable and you never have to be like, oh

668
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: I wish I had You can do that in your

669
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: own way, like I should have gone in that drainage

670
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: and not that drains like you can second guess. I'm

671
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: always But it's not like I wish I hadn't been

672
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: a dumbass, you know, or I wish I hadn't taken

673
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: like a shortcut, or I wish I hadn't decided to

674
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: sleep in a little bit late, and then have it

675
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 1: be that you know, you're the cause of the problem,

676
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, I think that's huge. I mean from

677
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: an outfit our standpoint, you know, there's always someone that

678
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: will outwork you, there's always someone that's better than you,

679
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: there's always someone that can spot better and do whatever,

680
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: and so our job is to just try and do

681
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: the absolute best job that we can and be the

682
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: most efficient and most effective that we can, and and

683
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: you know, let the results be what they may it.

684
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: But you you've got to get on every hunt period.

685
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: But you guys have never gotten into um anything that

686
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: like the buzz not a buzz word, but the people

687
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 1: are was it scalable? Is it scalable? You've never gotten

688
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: into anything that's scalable? What do you mean? Like? Okay,

689
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: the guy becomes the out guide, right, and then one

690
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: day he says, you know what I should do is

691
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: I'll build a lodge and I'll hire ten guides and

692
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 1: I'll have you know four you guys come through this

693
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: every year and kill out and then we're making real money.

694
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: But you guys do like boutique. Yeah, I mean that's

695
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: a good word for it, is boutique because we've talked

696
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,720
Speaker 1: about it a lot. If you want to make money

697
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: and earn a living, is an outfitter. It's a volume game.

698
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: You gotta do a lot of volume. But when you

699
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: do a lot of volume, you lose control over you know,

700
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: the quality, and who's guiding. I mean, it's not me year,

701
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: it's not Jay, it's somebody else. And it's hard to

702
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: control that out there. Because I should point out that

703
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: you honest to tell us who you're supposed to be.

704
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: You're supposed to be out buying his Hunt to Eat

705
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: t shirts right now? Y honest, who tell us who's

706
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: a producer on UM Media the show? And who's always

707
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,919
Speaker 1: here on these podcasts? Worked never on the big Horn

708
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: end of things, but worked the elk end of things

709
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: with Jay and Dark Colburn Scott. Now I want to

710
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: I want to talk about some of other stuff you

711
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: guys do, but I want to finish up. Tell me

712
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: about tell me the story of We're last year, you

713
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: guys did the like the Governor's tag and and you

714
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: the audience. Remember I was saying that there's like three

715
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: basic ways the big Horn tags get distributed. Where you

716
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: have the general lottery where you're paying application fee and

717
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: send your application one application and you get picked or not.

718
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: Then you have that um raffle where you can buy

719
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: an unlimited number of raffle tickets at five or ten

720
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: blocks apiece, and maybe it's you know, a percent of

721
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: a percent chances of being winning, but you win the tag,

722
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: or you just like got deep pockets and you buy

723
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: the Governor's tag. So after doing after killing these like

724
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 1: giant rams with these auction guys, the Governor guy comes

725
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: to you on the raffle. You mean and then the governor. Yeah,

726
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: after successfully three years, very successfully doing three raffle guys,

727
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: you get sort of the you know, the crown jewel

728
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: of the governor guy. So tell me how that plays out,

729
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: you know. I think one quick question to just intererget

730
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: actually answer it while you talk here is I do

731
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: want to know is it the crown jewel for you

732
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: when you did get that call? And um, if it's

733
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: all right to say how much that tag went for?

734
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: And so we know how well if he doesn't want

735
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 1: to say, I'll just look it up my phone. Yeah,

736
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 1: I know that that's actually the tag this year that

737
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 1: the um the tag went for two hundred thousand UM

738
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: the year last season when we guided the tag, it

739
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: went for a hundred and eighty thousand. Now, the beauty

740
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: of that is all of that money goes to our

741
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: sheep in our state. It stays here and goes into

742
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: you know, conservation and building water water for the sheep

743
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,919
Speaker 1: and transplanting and helicopter surveys, and it's earmarked. That money

744
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: is earmarked specifically four sheep, which is great. Yeah, but

745
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: it is and I support you know, I mean, it

746
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter what I think. But as far as

747
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things goes. But like I support

748
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: the thing. But the paradox and and everyone admiss this

749
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: is we have like our country. The reason our country

750
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: has such phenomenal hunting opportunities and such phenomenal wildlife despite

751
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: of the fact of a huge population and technologic you know,

752
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: technological advanced and all that, we have like wonderful wildlife,

753
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: wonderful hunting because we have what's called the North American

754
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: model of wildlife conversation conservation. And people often criticize that

755
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: term like it just makes people fall asleep hearing someone

756
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: say North American model of wildlife conservation. But what it

757
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: means is wildlfe's help in public trust. The reason you

758
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: do a lottery to get a big oarng tag is

759
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: no one has any more right to the big horns

760
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: is anyone else. And you are democratically allocating big orang

761
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: tags the governor's tag. When it's criticized, it's criticized on

762
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: on those grounds, meaning you're throwing out this idea of

763
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: like democratic wildlife, of publicly owned wildlife and making it

764
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: a commodity that goes to the highest bidder. But you

765
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: gotta keep in mind too, sort of how many tags

766
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: we're talking about, Like you might have a state that

767
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: issues several hundred big horn tags. They do one for

768
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,479
Speaker 1: the governor's auction, and there's the issue of the fact

769
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: that that money and they can pull some out for

770
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: administrative purposes. But I think it's like in the ninety

771
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: percentage points of that money goes on the ground. Okay,

772
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: So you could hit and it happens every year in

773
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: every state. People hit big horns with cars. Right, It's

774
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: like one big horn isn't necessarily it's not like one

775
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 1: big horn is of vital importance to the population of

776
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: big horn. We're not talking about bigfoots here. We're talking

777
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 1: about big horns, right, Like you can kill a big horn.

778
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: It doesn't have any especially an old male, has no

779
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: real difference on how many sheep are gonna be living

780
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: in that state. Okay, So it's not like you're like

781
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: giving this the guy some finite resource that he's now

782
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: going to remove, and it's no more. You're killing a

783
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: big horn, one of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of

784
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: big horns that live around here, and it's a bunch

785
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: of money. But I'm but I am sympathetic to the

786
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 1: criticism of it. Like I understand where the criticism is

787
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: coming from. If you paid me to like advocate on

788
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: that behalf, I could make a pretty impassioned argument against

789
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: governor's tags, But I could make a better one in

790
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: favor of him as it's currently run. Because this kind

791
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 1: of stuff is expensive. Man. They shot out big horns

792
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: off most of their range in the US, shooting him

793
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: for meat for whatever reason. And it's not like you

794
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: don't just like wave a magic wand and get all

795
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: those big horns put back where you want them. It

796
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: takes tons of time, tons of resources. So as you

797
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: guys get this guy, he calls up. He bought the

798
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: big he got bought the Governor's tag for two. Oh

799
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: he paid this year's tag paid two And how's that

800
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: conversation go? You know, darn and I have talked long

801
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: and hard about wanting to have the Governor's tag for

802
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: desert big horn sheep, and you know, it's it's an

803
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: honor to be able to guide that tag. And I

804
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: always looked at it, as you know, because a lot

805
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: of the scouting some of the biggest rams in Arizona

806
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: right here forty five minutes, you know, from our house,

807
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: and um, it was something that I've always wanted to do.

808
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: And I would say I had just an incredible time.

809
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: We had an incredible time scouting. I think we each

810
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: had forty days individually into scouting, and um, you know,

811
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: we we saw some incredible country, We found some incredible,

812
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: beautiful rams, and you know, I think it was everything

813
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: as a guide that I wanted to do. Um, it

814
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: was just awesome to be out there basically photographing and

815
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 1: videoing and filming these rams and nobody really was else around,

816
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: and UM, it was awesome. We found You know, if

817
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: you're familiar with the scoring system, I mean we found

818
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: seven rams that we thought were between a hundred and

819
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 1: eighty and a hundred and eighty four inches our target

820
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: ram score wise for the hunter wanted a hundred and

821
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: eighty five inch ram. And you can tell your you

822
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: can tell me the difference between No, but what I

823
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: can tell you is, um, there were no rams that

824
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 1: we had found prior to the general season that we're

825
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: definitively over. There was a seven of them, uh, two

826
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 1: of which got killed. There were seven that we thought

827
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: were between that hundred and eighty two hundred and eighty

828
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: four inch range. Now the two got killed, did they

829
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 1: prove you right or wrong? Um? I think both the

830
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,919
Speaker 1: two that got killed. I think Darren and I were

831
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 1: both under We thought they were smaller. You guys are conservative,

832
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: not the other way. I always like to be. Yeah.

833
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: The worst thing that Darren I could ever in our

834
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: mind is the over on the score, the thing that

835
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 1: would crush me most as if I overestimate. And it's

836
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: happened before on animals over the last twenty years or

837
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: whatever doing this, but it's it's one of those things

838
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: that I never want to be over ever. That's you know,

839
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: that's part of credibility, and that's part of um. You know,

840
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: darn I like to be credible and we like to

841
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: make sure that if we tell somebody something that that's

842
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: what it is. And you found so you found seven

843
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 1: rams that were in this area. Of four, we didn't

844
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: find any that were one what we thought. Two of

845
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: those got killed by other hunters too on the general

846
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: seas on the general season, because the general season starts

847
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: December one and it usually runs the whole month of December.

848
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: So just like in the raffles situation, we wanted to

849
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: hunt and be done before the general season. This is

850
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: a little bit different though, And our conversations before the

851
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 1: general season with with the hunter um and his representative

852
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: was we have not found what you want that we

853
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: could say definitively we and and you know, of the seven,

854
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: we probably could have went out with them and killed

855
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: any one of the seven pretty much any at any time.

856
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 1: Um Or put an effort in to find that ram,

857
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: and okay, let's go get him. Um any you know,

858
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 1: the hunter was like, well, what do you think? And

859
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: we said, well, you've said from the beginning you want

860
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: you know five or better. You know that in two

861
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: thousand and twelve, um I helped the hunter that had

862
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: killed a hundred and eighty six you know intr Ram

863
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: and and the Raffle Ram. The year before Claud's round

864
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: was five and three, and you know, we felt like

865
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: there was probably a ram out there that was bigger.

866
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: We didn't know of any but we had all year

867
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: to look for that ram. Did other guys know of one? It?

868
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard to say. I mean, obviously we're

869
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: not privy to some of the scores and stuff that

870
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 1: that other people and and we certainly don't ever want

871
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: to say that we know every ram in the state

872
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: at all. Well, and the other thing we talked about

873
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: is there was only so many tags in that area

874
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: where we were looking. They couldn't kill all those rams

875
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 1: in the general hunt, even all the even if everyone

876
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: killed one of the giants that would we still would

877
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: have some rams that if we didn't find something else,

878
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: we could potentially go hunt after this general hunt, and

879
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: we could hunt through the general hunt. You know, his

880
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 1: tag was ever bit as good as any one of

881
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 1: the general season tags. He can hunt in basically any

882
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: of the units. But then he would have you know, February, March, April, May, June, July,

883
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: and half of August, which the desert big Horn in

884
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: this area where the Mexicans are, they typically rut in

885
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: June and July and the first part of August. So

886
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: you know, we were going to be probably the first

887
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: auction tag to ever hunt during the rut, and the

888
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 1: first auction would be the first auction guy that actually

889
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: waited that long, that actually waited that long. So from

890
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: our perspective, why do they want so different than the

891
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: other ones in the same him state. Yet some sheet

892
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: that wrought October November and you get the sheet are

893
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: rutting late summer. You know, it's like, why did the

894
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: brown trout you know, feed in this time in the rain?

895
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: You know, it's just it's just the way it is. Um.

896
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: So we knew that we had a great opportunity if if,

897
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: even if we didn't kill before the general season, that

898
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: you know, we had tons of time to find, you know,

899
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: a true giant. And if we didn't, you know, we

900
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: we would have taken the chance and hunted the whole

901
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: year and to try and find that monster of a lifetime.

902
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: And if not, he were pretty confident that you know,

903
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: he could shoot a you know, a ram around a

904
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty inches with you know, two weeks to go,

905
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 1: three weeks to go in the season. So we're thinking

906
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: we shouldn't settle now when we could settle at the

907
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: end in Yeah, And I mean the hunter Will asked specifically,

908
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:54,720
Speaker 1: is like, what would you do? And I said, well,

909
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 1: if I had your tag and I wanted to kill

910
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: a ram over five, if we haven't found one, that's over,

911
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: let's keep looking. We have all years. Did you ever

912
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 1: started to worry that there wasn't one in existence in

913
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 1: the state? Oh, I mean, I think it's not a worry,

914
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: But I think that's what motivates you to go out

915
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 1: every day, is to try and find it, because oh, absolutely,

916
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: it's absolutely plausible that there's not over O. But my

917
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: thing is with this tag, why not exhaust every possible

918
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: resource and if there's not, you don't find one, you

919
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: gave it a great shot, and within let's say the

920
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: last thirty days of the hunt, you could probably go

921
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,879
Speaker 1: out and still kill the tremendous ram. Yeah, and you'd

922
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: spend all that time in the field looking at yeah.

923
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 1: I mean, the the amazing photographs and video that Darren

924
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: I were able to capture was is awesome and we'll

925
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: always have that. And we learned so much from it too.

926
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: I mean there's parts of the unit that we learned

927
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: now that you know that we didn't hadn't gone in

928
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: that now we know really well and um, you know it.

929
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: It's nobody would do us unless they loved it. You know,

930
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 1: you gotta love it to want to be good at

931
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: this and to do it. I mean, if you don't

932
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: have a passion for it, you don't stand a chance.

933
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:08,919
Speaker 1: I mean, you can go out and shoot a ram,

934
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: but you have to really and there's a handful of

935
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 1: guys that really love it. There are from from This

936
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: is something you never you'll never be able to answer

937
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: because because you're honest, but you're tactful at least enough

938
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 1: to survive. How could it not be that? Like, just

939
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 1: hearing this for me, I'm just curious, how what goes

940
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: on in your head with it? How can you not

941
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: think after a while that it would be like, no,

942
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 1: I killed that ramp, Like I'm the one that was

943
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: out there. I covered all the ground, I went all

944
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: the miles, I found the thing. I showed you where

945
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 1: it is. And then one might say, one could argue,

946
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: he just shows up and pulls the trigger. I mean,

947
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 1: how does do what I mean Like, I'm not saying

948
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: I'm not criticizing what he did. Like he's doing his

949
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 1: own thing, and he's in the law, he's he's does

950
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 1: right by you. Everybody's happy. But in your head do

951
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: you wind up how do you how do you wind

952
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 1: up feeling glad for him and not kind of like

953
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 1: and not kind of like territorial about the family. Are

954
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 1: you talking the specifically the auction text? And yeah, like

955
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: I think anyone who's not out there, like if the

956
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 1: guy said no, I'm gonna be right there with you, man, like,

957
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: if you stop fast, you're gonna feel me bump into you,

958
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: because I'm in this. I want to do this. I

959
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: want to learn what you guys know, but to have

960
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:33,879
Speaker 1: be that you do all that and then a guy

961
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 1: comes out and shoots the thing, I'm not. I'most not

962
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: be as big of a guy as you guys are

963
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 1: emotionally or psychologically, because I would want up being like,

964
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm not gonna show you where the

965
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: sheep is, because if you really wanted to know you here, well,

966
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,280
Speaker 1: I would feel that way about it. I certainly think

967
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: and dark and speak for himself, but I certainly do

968
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: like taking hunters that want to go scouting and want

969
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,399
Speaker 1: to be there forever re experience. And let's face it, though,

970
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I can argue both sides of the auction tag.

971
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: I can argue both sides very well. Um Our state

972
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:13,240
Speaker 1: relies on this money and quite frankly, the general Joe blow,

973
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 1: as much as I love them, they're not going to

974
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: show out of their pocket five bucks. They just it's

975
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 1: just and and we need the money. And so I'm

976
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: absolutely four auction tags, you know. Yeah, And to get

977
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: get to your question. I think when we decide that

978
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna be Colburn and Scott Outfitters and we're gonna

979
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: be guides and we're gonna do this, I think you

980
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 1: have to take a level of professionalism in the field

981
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 1: that says I've been hired to do a job, and

982
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: my job is to sweat. My job is to get

983
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: you know, struck by rattlesnakes. My job is to do

984
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 1: whatever it takes, you know, have the boat breakdown, my

985
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: you know, change flat tires like we did out on

986
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: the sixty and and that's my job, and nobody hears

987
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,919
Speaker 1: about that stuff. My job is to find. Our job

988
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 1: is to find the client the biggest ram possible and

989
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: have them have the best hunt that they can possibly have.

990
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 1: I think part of our goal on our general season

991
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:15,280
Speaker 1: hunts is we want to Yes, we want a great trophy,

992
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: but more than anything, we want the great experience. We

993
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 1: never want a hunter to leave thinking that they just

994
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 1: came out, pulled the trigger and they were done. Most

995
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: all the hunters that we ever hunt with, with all

996
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: the different species, they text us, they email us, they

997
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 1: call us, they invite us to their house. We're friends

998
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: with them. And we build that bond in relationship. So

999
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,399
Speaker 1: I certainly don't want this whole conversation to be taken it.

1000
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: It's all around the trophy. To us, it's more about

1001
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: the experience. But yeah, I mean, is it feasible to

1002
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: think that you could go through all this work, you know,

1003
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,479
Speaker 1: a hundred and ten degrees and you're out there hiking

1004
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: up and down peaks and you know, sleeping with the

1005
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, the fleas biting near years all night, and

1006
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: you know all that stuff that we do. But that's

1007
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 1: also the job we chose. I think at some point

1008
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 1: that's your duty and you just do it. Yeah. I

1009
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: think the only thing that I can see how I

1010
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 1: would feel about it is that it facilitates you being

1011
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 1: able to do something that people would only dream of doing.

1012
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 1: I think the people here's what it is. I think

1013
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 1: people think they I think people think they wish they

1014
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,839
Speaker 1: did what you guys did. They think, yeah, until they did,

1015
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 1: until they steve. What I was gonna say too, is

1016
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 1: most hunters, like Jay said, we're become lifelong friends with

1017
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: and then you get the person, you know, our sheep

1018
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: hunter from this December, he shoots an unbelievable ram he

1019
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 1: never once mentioned score prior to the hunt, and he

1020
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 1: gave me a hug as he was leaving with his

1021
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,839
Speaker 1: family there and broke into tears and was just like,

1022
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: thank you for this unbelievable experience. It was, you know,

1023
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 1: more than I could have ever imagined. So, I mean,

1024
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 1: that's pretty special. You know, it's more than money at

1025
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: that point and the size of a ram. It's it's

1026
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 1: a bonding, you know, life experience you've just shared with

1027
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 1: this person. These there are guys out guides out there

1028
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: that all of us have run across that aren't nearly

1029
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 1: as professional as YouTube, and they're probably out of the

1030
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,919
Speaker 1: realm of you know, the public eye. They do walk

1031
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,879
Speaker 1: around boasting a little bit, how probably, and they take

1032
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 1: it into possession as in how much they've killed, talking

1033
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 1: about what their clients have killed. Well, I agree with you,

1034
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,280
Speaker 1: but I and certainly I don't want to come across

1035
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: as someone that's saying that, darn, I don't have pride

1036
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 1: and don't have our own egos. We all want to

1037
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: kill the biggest challenge. I mean, we want to kill

1038
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: the biggest thing on the mountain, um because it's a

1039
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 1: once in a lifetime deal. But I think we have

1040
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: to always check our own egos and and and you

1041
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 1: know kind of humbly approached this because you know we're

1042
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: not perfect by buy any stretch of the imagination. You know,

1043
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 1: it's funny about what else saying you're about sort of

1044
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:08,320
Speaker 1: like who did it? Like whose possession it is? Talk

1045
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: like when you talk with guys they have a lot

1046
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: of friends that hunt a lot, and like I know,

1047
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: you know we know guides, and you know many of

1048
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 1: my friends having guides. So when we talked about like

1049
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 1: when you honest tell me what he's always tell me

1050
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: what you guys are out to, because he's in touch

1051
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: at the all time. Johannest would never say, um, yeah,

1052
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: Ja and Dar's client did whatever. It would be Ja

1053
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: and dhar as like those somehow you guys are both

1054
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 1: like sharing you each got your finger on the trigger.

1055
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: It's like Jay and Dark killed blank you know what

1056
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: I mean. It's like it never like hearing it, no

1057
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: insults your clients hearing it, and never even enters into

1058
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 1: my head that it's something other. I just like here

1059
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: and I'm like that they did this thing, you know,

1060
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 1: and granted like for sure you have like someone there

1061
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 1: and you're doing your job. But like in my from

1062
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 1: like when I hear it, that's just like, honestly what

1063
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 1: I hear, I don't picture you got as like joint

1064
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: doing it. But his picture is so like. But that's

1065
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: the thing. We get to go the whole experience and

1066
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 1: do it all. We just don't get to take it home.

1067
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: I mean we get to go on a sheep hunt

1068
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: every year, which is amazing. Do you guys go years

1069
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: without hunting personally? Oh? Personally yeah, yeah, a long long time. Yeah.

1070
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 1: And I think speaking to that, you know, when darn

1071
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 1: I started, even before we started guiding a lot, I

1072
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: mean we've always kind of guided, but um, darn I

1073
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: hunted together for all sorts of animals and um, you know,

1074
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that our own tags together.

1075
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that made us very

1076
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: effective is we always acted as a team. And there's

1077
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 1: numerous trophies that that um Dar shot um that you know,

1078
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: I'm as happy about him shooting that trophy as if

1079
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: I am. And people say, oh, that's not true, but dude,

1080
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: I can I can beg you man, Like when I hunted,

1081
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: like the handful of times I hunting dollar sheep as

1082
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: al as building my brothers, and it's like it doesn't

1083
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: you you don't talk about it. Is that we you know,

1084
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: you guy smell with the mountain saying like we got

1085
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: a ramp. Yeah, and that's the same thing. That's the same.

1086
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 1: What do you guys get like, oh, we got a ramp.

1087
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 1: And that's the same thing with guiding. So we've taken

1088
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: that same mentality into guiding. And you know, with with

1089
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 1: the coustre hunting and the mule there and the elk

1090
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 1: and turkeys and whatever, we just darn I operate. We

1091
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: we know how each other, we know how we act,

1092
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: we know how when one person you knows may get frustrated,

1093
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: we know how, we know how to read each other,

1094
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: and we work almost as one um. And people that

1095
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: hunt with us, they say that they're like, you guys

1096
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 1: are unbelievable because he knows what you're thinking. You know

1097
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: what he's thinking. And I think that's we've become pretty

1098
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 1: effective that way. And I think we took that into

1099
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: the guiding and we're able to produce, you know, very

1100
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 1: well because we worked as one team and and um,

1101
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: you guys meet in the first place, it wasn't like

1102
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 1: a fly fishing shop fly shop. So he was I

1103
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: think in n I believe maybe nine four so twenty

1104
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: years ago. I actually had a doctor friend that owned

1105
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 1: the fly shop and I remember walking in and there

1106
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: was this kid up on this ladder and he was stocking.

1107
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: Actually were moving the fly shop to a new fly shop,

1108
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: and I came in and he'll tell you his impressions.

1109
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: But um, a little later that day he was like,

1110
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 1: so you hunt And I said yeah, And he says,

1111
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 1: do you bow hunt? And I said yeah. And I

1112
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: think ever since those words were uttered, we've been lifelong friends.

1113
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. And then the owners of the flashop left

1114
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 1: for the summer, so left he and I in charge,

1115
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: which I can actually remember one time on a Saturday

1116
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 1: morning getting a I don't even know if we had

1117
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: cell phones back then, but to make a long story short,

1118
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: any anyway, I called into dark because I'm like an

1119
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 1: hour late, and he's like, where are you. I'm like,

1120
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 1: all being I think I had overslept or something, but

1121
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: he was my boss. So after all that, how are

1122
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: we do? How much time we've been? Yeah before, we're

1123
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 1: at an hour? Right now the good time to take

1124
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: just a quick break, take a quick break, be right back.

1125
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 1: So after you guys met, like you guys meet at

1126
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 1: a fly shop, how did it go when you started

1127
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 1: bowl hunting together? Should be like your guide in Desert

1128
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 1: big horn hunts well in it was two thousand one,

1129
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 1: but at this point needed you have guided hunting? No,

1130
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 1: I had a guide fly since I think in Night.

1131
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: I think Night was the first year that I had

1132
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 1: a guide's license. After you guys met, correct after yes? Yeah, yeah,

1133
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 1: Jay started guiding some hunts um late nineties for what

1134
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 1: Elk right, Elk and Cou's deer um down in Mexico

1135
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: kind of started that. It was that just because you've

1136
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 1: been hunting on your own and liked it and had

1137
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: a knack for it. Yeah, I think, to be honest

1138
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 1: with you, I was just trying to get more time

1139
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 1: out there hunting UM in Arizona. You know with our

1140
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: draw it's you know, limited tags and living here and

1141
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: not having you know a lot of resources early on

1142
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: to to go hunt. I thought being a guide was

1143
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: perfect because I could go tag along and you know,

1144
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 1: actually go experience all these hunts. Because Dar was actually

1145
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 1: raised in a hunting family since he was little. I

1146
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 1: shot my first year when I was fifteen, but that

1147
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: was the first real hunt that I had ever been on.

1148
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: So I was one of those kids that grew up.

1149
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: My grandma got me Field and Stream and Outdoor Life magazine.

1150
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: But I absolutely wanted to hunt as a little kid

1151
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: worse than anything. But is usually those people don't turn

1152
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: into real good hunters, And it's usually the people that

1153
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: have you have to do with your whole life, you know. Yeah,

1154
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 1: And I mean some would argue whether I'm a good

1155
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 1: hunter or not. I guess that the thing is is

1156
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 1: I wanted to hunt and fish so bad as a

1157
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: little kid. I think even today people ask me why

1158
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 1: I love it so much, is because when I was little,

1159
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: I really didn't have the opportunity. I was the kid

1160
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 1: that literally when Field and Stream came, you know, like

1161
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 1: six seven, eight years old, would read it cover to

1162
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: cover and literally have like the pages flipped to the

1163
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 1: things that I liked. And you know, so once I

1164
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: got introduced to it, um, I was hooked. That's all

1165
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 1: I wanted to do is hunting fish. You know. Jabs

1166
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 1: up the interesting point where like, how if you want

1167
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 1: to hunt in Arizona, you you, oftense just have to

1168
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 1: go with someone who's gonna take if you notice when

1169
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 1: you see pictures from Arizona, there's always seven eight guys

1170
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 1: in the picture because you got your guys you hang

1171
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,479
Speaker 1: out with and you're hoping that one of the guys

1172
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: draws the tag. If you want to go every year,

1173
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,800
Speaker 1: you gotta go with your buddies. Yeah, Like if you

1174
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,600
Speaker 1: live in Montana, it's like if you're a Montana resident,

1175
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 1: absolutely anale tag every year. Absolutely elk tag every year.

1176
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: Absolutely a buck mulier or white tail tag every year.

1177
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 1: There's many dolle tags you want to get. Absolutely a

1178
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 1: bear tag every year. You can hunt more months than

1179
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 1: you can't hunt here. I mean it's just a different place.

1180
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 1: It's just like it's just not as productive of a landscape.

1181
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 1: You just can't. You know, there's there's not over to

1182
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 1: counter hunting here so much. We do have lots of

1183
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 1: opportunity here if you're you know what, do archery and

1184
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 1: just do different things. There is a lot of opportunities.

1185
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 1: But you're not walking around because you walt it's fat

1186
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 1: with all the tables to figure out somewhere, all the tags.

1187
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, you fall in with someone and and you

1188
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 1: know I mentioned that like in this this the hunting guy,

1189
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 1: but we haven't coming out. I mentioned there's a lot

1190
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 1: of things that if you want to go hunt them,

1191
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 1: Like I said, like, if you want to go on

1192
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: a on a big orang hunt. Started hanging out with

1193
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 1: guys that are interested in big horns because the chances

1194
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 1: if you ever actually drawn a tag, you know, it's

1195
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: not gonna happen, but if you fall in with the

1196
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 1: right crowd, you might go on a handful him. I've

1197
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 1: been on a couple of big horn ons. I've never

1198
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: drawn a big Orang tag. I just had the experience

1199
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 1: of going. It's very incredible. It's a blass man, and

1200
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 1: you know, I still sit here feeling like I gotta

1201
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 1: remind myself that I didn't shoot the thing, you know

1202
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: what I mean, cause it just felt like like being there.

1203
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 1: That's exactly how I ended up here working with you

1204
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: is because I found out you had a doll Sheep

1205
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:44,959
Speaker 1: tag and I've volunteered my time just so I could

1206
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 1: fly in the airplane into doll Sheep Country join you.

1207
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 1: And I think, damn you two up like email like yeah,

1208
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: you were like, yeah, Steve's got a tag, you should

1209
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 1: talk to him. He was in, I was in. I

1210
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: was in Fairbanks. Yeah, and so just by going, you know,

1211
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:03,920
Speaker 1: I by wanting to go and see sheep country and

1212
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 1: see a sheep hunt and and experience a sheep hunt.

1213
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 1: Here we are, I've been. Yeah, I had to take

1214
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: for something called the Tope Management Area. Now you guys

1215
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 1: have never hunted doll sheep, right, No, you do want

1216
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 1: to remember one of you was complaining about that you're

1217
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 1: a little bit afraid of cold weather. It was I

1218
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 1: think it was wet where in Arizona was wet. I

1219
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't say that. Anytime the weather gets under sixty degrees,

1220
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 1: I grabbed for a sweater. So I mean, I'm definitely

1221
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 1: a desert rat. But um, yeah, I would love to

1222
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: go doll sheep hunting stone sheep hunting. Um alright, So

1223
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 1: definitely not saying I'm the toughest critter out there. Well no,

1224
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: you gotta be though now from doing all the sheep scouting. Um.

1225
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 1: All right, So you guys, we're gonna flashop you'd like

1226
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 1: to hunt or you'd like to hunt a lot? And

1227
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 1: just got him to guide and start out doing elk

1228
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 1: and who's you're down in Mexico. I love videos. I

1229
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: want to say that last um, was my twenty year,

1230
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 1: would have been my twentieth year of taking the entire

1231
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 1: month of September off to video elk. And it started

1232
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 1: out videoing elk and guiding elk hunters and just my

1233
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: my love for elk and bugling and all of the

1234
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 1: parts of the game of elk hunting, from calling to

1235
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, all of the different facets of elk hunting.

1236
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 1: I was just enamored with it. Yeah, Jay even judges

1237
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 1: h elk calling contest three years. I was a judge

1238
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 1: for the Rocky Mountain Calling contest, but I didn't judge

1239
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 1: this last year actually because it was during sheep season.

1240
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 1: They bumped their um expo up into December, which was

1241
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 1: right at the beginning of the general desert bighorn cheap season.

1242
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:49,960
Speaker 1: So doing doing the elk deal, how did that lead

1243
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 1: into like how like kind of like give like a

1244
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 1: quick crash course and how dude becomes a sheep gun um.

1245
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: To be real honest with you, we hunted all sorts

1246
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 1: of stuff. In two thousand nine, my friend Glenn Hall,

1247
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 1: Darnay's mutual friend, Glenn Hall, who we just think the

1248
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 1: world of, actually drew a desert big horn sheep hunt.

1249
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 1: I had never been on a sheep hunt until then,

1250
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 1: and so he drew the tag and his son Tyler

1251
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 1: and I, Uh, basically we wanted to know everything there

1252
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:23,519
Speaker 1: was to know about sheep hunting. So I talked to

1253
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: every single person that would listen to me, that would

1254
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:29,879
Speaker 1: take a phone call. Um. Tyler and I both scouted

1255
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 1: a lot for Glenn's hunt, and from the first time,

1256
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 1: just as it was my friend and I wanted to

1257
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 1: be there for the whole thing, I took the whole

1258
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 1: time off. And you know that was I wanted a

1259
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:43,599
Speaker 1: good guy. No, I hope I draw an Arizona sheeta

1260
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 1: and so I just first. Um, so from the first

1261
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:55,439
Speaker 1: round that I ever saw, and I was just hooked

1262
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 1: the yellow horn, just the country they live in. I

1263
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: was just hooked on it. And so I mean we

1264
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: became almost obsessive of you guys have a good hunt.

1265
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 1: That year the two nine, Glenn shot what at the

1266
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 1: time was the number three muzzleloader ram uh in the

1267
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 1: Long Hunter book, UND seventy six and four eights net,

1268
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 1: which was a barge ram for that unit. And um,

1269
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 1: we looked at a ton of rams. But I mean,

1270
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:27,880
Speaker 1: at from that point, from that season, UM just absolutely

1271
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 1: hooked on sheep hunting. And that was over in western Arizona,

1272
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 1: and we had already been guiding, you know, for cou's

1273
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 1: deer and elk and all the other stuff. And um,

1274
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 1: we learned so much about that unit. Um, how many

1275
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:41,640
Speaker 1: days did you put in when when your friends us

1276
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 1: to take how I mean, I would say we put

1277
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 1: in twenty one days at least, maybe maybe more. Um,

1278
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:55,559
Speaker 1: but videoing and photographing them and just documenting them. I

1279
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 1: just fell in love with it. And as fortune would

1280
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 1: have at the neck next year, actually, um, a guy

1281
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 1: from Wisconsin, Ron Order for drew the same unit. Well

1282
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 1: when he called me, he had found out that that

1283
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:14,839
Speaker 1: um we we I was in there the year before

1284
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:17,720
Speaker 1: he had the same hunt. And I said, look, you know,

1285
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 1: I might not have the experience on judging rams and

1286
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 1: what have you, but I know the unit, and I

1287
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: know some of the rams that are in there, and

1288
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 1: we got a great one last year. And and I

1289
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 1: think Darney's expertise in glassing for cous dear just I mean,

1290
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 1: when you're trained to hunt cous dear and and and

1291
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 1: and glass for coustar sheep is in desert sheep is

1292
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 1: nothing compared to coust, So I felt like we fell

1293
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 1: right into the sheep game. Um, we took Ron out,

1294
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:52,760
Speaker 1: actually guided Ron in two thousand and ten. He put

1295
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 1: his faith in trust in darn I. We did it together,

1296
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:57,680
Speaker 1: and he got a beautiful ram that that we had

1297
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,040
Speaker 1: nicknamed the Lolo Ram that we had actually found in

1298
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 1: the year before. And um, we spent I think we scouted.

1299
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 1: Um it was either every Wednesday or every Tuesday for

1300
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:11,240
Speaker 1: like two and a half months, um steady every morning

1301
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 1: that day we would drive two hours from here. But

1302
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 1: then before the hunt, we spent a bunch of time

1303
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:19,479
Speaker 1: and Ron killed the logo ram and that was two

1304
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 1: thousand and ten. And then, um, I just was in

1305
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 1: love with it even more. And dar Than was all in,

1306
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 1: you know, and he was loving it too. And two

1307
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:33,160
Speaker 1: thousand eleven, Eric Swanson's ram he got an ice one.

1308
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:35,720
Speaker 1: And then you know, then two thousand eleven we took

1309
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 1: our first raffle. So we kind of went from zero

1310
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 1: to a hundred real quick. Um. But I think Darnay's

1311
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:46,880
Speaker 1: analytical nature and and it seems like everything that we

1312
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,360
Speaker 1: get into I just want to know everything there is

1313
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 1: to know about it and be competent at it. So

1314
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 1: I think the way we went from being Elk guides

1315
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 1: and cous dear guides to being Sheep guides was just

1316
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:02,800
Speaker 1: loving the game and wanting to be in the game

1317
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:05,479
Speaker 1: and know everything you know you could about the sport.

1318
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 1: Do you guys think you'll keep doing going after sheet? Definitely?

1319
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 1: It's fun. I Mean there's one thing about sheep that

1320
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: I would say is different than deer and Elk. There's

1321
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 1: a lot of interaction with them when we're taking pictures

1322
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 1: in video. A lot of times it's close. I mean

1323
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 1: you're can be fifty yards from them sometimes, so some

1324
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:30,680
Speaker 1: phenomenal video. Yeah, the pictures and video, it's really enjoyable

1325
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 1: documenting all that stuff, So that aspect of it is

1326
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 1: different than Elk and Deer. Do you guys put in

1327
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 1: for tags? Oh? Yeah? How many bonus points do you

1328
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 1: have now? I think I have like eighteen? Do they

1329
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:50,800
Speaker 1: give any tags? Um? Just just to I feel we've

1330
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 1: talked about this so many times, just to like bring

1331
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 1: people at the speed on what I'm talking. What I

1332
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:57,599
Speaker 1: talk about the bonus point is in when it comes

1333
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 1: to limited draw permit allocation, which happens when let's say

1334
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: you have you know, a hundred deer, and five dudes

1335
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,680
Speaker 1: want to hunt deer. You gotta be like fair about it,

1336
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 1: and not everybody gets to go, And so everybody starts supplying,

1337
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:19,840
Speaker 1: and they reward loyal customers. Thinking of a person who

1338
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 1: applies for a tags as a customer. They reward loyal

1339
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 1: customers by every year that they apply without success, they

1340
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 1: are given a bonus point or a preference point, And

1341
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:36,320
Speaker 1: basically these are like rewards points which enhance your chances

1342
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 1: in the subsequent years to draw a tag. Some states

1343
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: handle bonus points in different ways where some states, and

1344
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:47,760
Speaker 1: this is true for everything from bears to big horns, right,

1345
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:51,680
Speaker 1: but even turkeys. There's bonus points for turkeys in some states.

1346
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:54,680
Speaker 1: So some states will give a certain number of the

1347
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 1: tags to whoever has the maximum number of points in

1348
01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:00,639
Speaker 1: that given year. Some states just you to point as

1349
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:02,599
Speaker 1: a point in your name goes in once for each

1350
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 1: point you have. So if you have four bonus points,

1351
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:10,040
Speaker 1: your name goes into the hat four times. Montana squares

1352
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 1: your bonus points. So I have right now twelve bighorn

1353
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:17,920
Speaker 1: sheep bonus points in Montana, or thirteen, my name will

1354
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: be going into the hat one hundred and sixty nine

1355
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:23,000
Speaker 1: times this year. I will not draw a big horn

1356
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:27,280
Speaker 1: tag this year. Um and and until that state does

1357
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:29,120
Speaker 1: the thing where you give a certain number of tags

1358
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:33,799
Speaker 1: of the max point holder, I'll probably never draw. Always

1359
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 1: a chance. Um, yeah, I have a chance up into

1360
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:40,479
Speaker 1: almost a percent. I think I have about a one

1361
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:44,640
Speaker 1: percent chance um with thirteen bonus points. Anyways, you have

1362
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:48,519
Speaker 1: eighteen and twenty bonus points. Are you in a situation

1363
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:50,120
Speaker 1: where they're going to for sure give you a tag

1364
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 1: when you get a max don't? Don't they don't do

1365
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:55,160
Speaker 1: that max holder thing. We're so far behind. I think

1366
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 1: I think five is max. Um. I could be around

1367
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:00,880
Speaker 1: it might be six, But twenty five I think is max.

1368
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 1: And there are there are more MAX guys every year

1369
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:05,639
Speaker 1: than there are permits available to meet all the max guys.

1370
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,160
Speaker 1: The max guys still in a drawing. They're not just automatic.

1371
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 1: I think rough numbers. I was going to say there

1372
01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 1: was like a hundred and fifty people with MAX for sheep,

1373
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:22,519
Speaker 1: and they give well hundred fifty residents I believe with

1374
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:26,639
Speaker 1: MAX for sheep, and let's say they give a hundred

1375
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:29,920
Speaker 1: sheep tags in Arizona go to the people with the

1376
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,719
Speaker 1: most bonus points, So twenty tags right off the top

1377
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:39,439
Speaker 1: go to those max point holders. So I mean Jay

1378
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 1: and I are behind that, so far behind that, Well,

1379
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:44,600
Speaker 1: I think I don't know. The things you need to

1380
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 1: look at when you don't have max points in Arizona

1381
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:49,559
Speaker 1: is you need to apply for units that don't go

1382
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:52,800
Speaker 1: in the max point draw. So so you need to

1383
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 1: pick some of the lesser tier units that might not

1384
01:15:56,200 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 1: have as bigger rams but might have a sleeper round.

1385
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 1: And that's what I'll I can try, and I always

1386
01:16:01,479 --> 01:16:05,120
Speaker 1: try and apply for units that there's still a chance

1387
01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 1: if I draw of getting a really nice ram, but

1388
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:10,720
Speaker 1: they aren't gonna the tags aren't gonna go on the

1389
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 1: max point because the way Arizona does it is they

1390
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:17,599
Speaker 1: give the text to the people with the most points,

1391
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:22,519
Speaker 1: but they don't give of each hunt. They just let

1392
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 1: those they pick those tags out of the pool. So

1393
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 1: those people with the max points are picking the best units.

1394
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 1: So the best units aren't available by the time it

1395
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 1: comes to the general jow because they only might have

1396
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:39,360
Speaker 1: one or two tags and they're gone in that So

1397
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 1: if you're applying for those units, you're wasting your you

1398
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:46,559
Speaker 1: will not draw. But a good story last year I

1399
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:49,280
Speaker 1: took a girl on the general season, Avery Elms, cutest

1400
01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 1: little thing you've ever seen, twelve years old from Oregon,

1401
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 1: Baker City, Oregon. She brought her dad and grandpa down. Um.

1402
01:16:55,720 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 1: She started hunting on the nineteenth once she got out

1403
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,559
Speaker 1: of school. But she only had two bones us points.

1404
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:03,800
Speaker 1: And it happened to me in the and it's a nonresident.

1405
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:06,559
Speaker 1: As a nonresident, but she drew in that unit where

1406
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:09,360
Speaker 1: where I hunted in two thousand nine and two thousand

1407
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 1: and ten, where the Glen Hall's big ram was and um,

1408
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:17,799
Speaker 1: the logo ran and subsequently the one of the seven

1409
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 1: giants that shouldn't say giants, but one of the seven

1410
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:24,519
Speaker 1: big rounds that we found uh scouting for the auction

1411
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 1: tag was in that unit and it actually got killed

1412
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:29,519
Speaker 1: and I think it was a hundred and eighty three

1413
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:32,720
Speaker 1: inches um. And she drew a two bonus points. So

1414
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 1: don't ever think that as a nonresident you can't draw,

1415
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 1: because she drew with two points and she got a

1416
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:42,120
Speaker 1: beautiful ram, and um was a pleasure to hunt with.

1417
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 1: So you'll do more. You'll do more than one chap hunt.

1418
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 1: You did. You were involved in several sheep points. Well,

1419
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 1: Dar had a client in fifteen D North and and

1420
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:53,760
Speaker 1: I had Avery Elms and forty four B North and

1421
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 1: then we also had the the auction hunter. Um, so

1422
01:17:57,120 --> 01:18:02,599
Speaker 1: technically I guess we had three homes. You guys split up, No, no, yeah, rarely,

1423
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 1: but but we do. So Jaane Darr didn't kill it.

1424
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:11,240
Speaker 1: I found the big one and I called Jake because

1425
01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:14,840
Speaker 1: his hunter wasn't coming. I didn't. He said, my bags

1426
01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:16,599
Speaker 1: are cacked on headed. All I had to do was

1427
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:18,519
Speaker 1: just say I found a big one, and I was

1428
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:21,200
Speaker 1: scrambling for my stuff to to get up there to

1429
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 1: just help him out anyway I could. So now I

1430
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:26,680
Speaker 1: meant to talk about it. What I wanted to talk

1431
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:28,880
Speaker 1: about all the things you guys got, but we burned

1432
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:32,679
Speaker 1: up tons of time on big horns. But to put

1433
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:36,760
Speaker 1: in term of points, the ELK units you apply, the

1434
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:44,759
Speaker 1: ELK units you hunting are arguably the best ELK units

1435
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:49,240
Speaker 1: in the country because Arizona is widely regarded. As you know,

1436
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 1: it makes like the if you're gonna if you ask

1437
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 1: anybody who's really into elk to name like the top

1438
01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:59,080
Speaker 1: two or three elk states, Arizona's eyes on the list

1439
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:04,360
Speaker 1: and the best units in the best state. How many

1440
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 1: years have the guys you guys had been applying for

1441
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 1: the tags that you got. It's a great question. You know,

1442
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:15,200
Speaker 1: our draw just came out. The actual draw hasn't been released,

1443
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 1: but they've hit the credit cards. So the guys that

1444
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:20,960
Speaker 1: have applied on a credit card, UH, they know they've

1445
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 1: got a ding on their cards, so they know that

1446
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:25,479
Speaker 1: it hit for whatever the amount is the non resident

1447
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 1: feeding h like Friday four or five days ago or

1448
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:34,639
Speaker 1: three days ago. UM. So I have a guy, Bob

1449
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:38,439
Speaker 1: Reid from Bend, Oregon, UH, sixty eight years old. He

1450
01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 1: has seventeen bonus points he put in for Unit nine archery.

1451
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:45,160
Speaker 1: So he's been faithfully applying for an Arizona LT for

1452
01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:48,080
Speaker 1: seventeen years and going and apparently hasn't come out because

1453
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have his bonus points if you'd come out

1454
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:53,360
Speaker 1: right and and going into the draw. You can look

1455
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:56,160
Speaker 1: at the numbers and see how it went last year.

1456
01:19:56,200 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 1: And we were pretty confident that with seventeen points he

1457
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:01,160
Speaker 1: was going to get the Unit at nine archery tag.

1458
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 1: So he applied for Unit nine one choice and he

1459
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,280
Speaker 1: did get a ding on his credit card, so we

1460
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:10,200
Speaker 1: know we're going to outcome is the right seventeen points

1461
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:13,599
Speaker 1: seventeen points when you're in those units, like how good

1462
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:15,639
Speaker 1: is good? Like how many bulls you like to call?

1463
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 1: Like you call up but Darry, you don't like to

1464
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:21,240
Speaker 1: call it too much. You more just like to get

1465
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:24,760
Speaker 1: out in front of just see if something happens. So

1466
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:27,519
Speaker 1: when you're calling, like in one of these primo units,

1467
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:31,559
Speaker 1: if you're like, how many bulls might you see? You know,

1468
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 1: when they're really writing and really going, you know, you

1469
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 1: can get out of the truck and make a little walk,

1470
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 1: and you know, when it's really hot, you can hear

1471
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 1: twelve or fifteen bulls buglean when it's really good. Um,

1472
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:46,760
Speaker 1: you know, and in a given day, whether you're just

1473
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:48,840
Speaker 1: trying to glass them or if you're actually trying to

1474
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:51,639
Speaker 1: work those bulls and get in on them. I mean,

1475
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:53,800
Speaker 1: I would say on a good day you could see

1476
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:57,600
Speaker 1: in a morning, I mean you could probably see a

1477
01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 1: dozen bowls easy. Um, if you were just glassing, just

1478
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:04,439
Speaker 1: trying to spot elk and not really move in on him.

1479
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:07,360
Speaker 1: When it's good, you could see I mean you could

1480
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:10,519
Speaker 1: see probably fifteen or twenty bulls, no problem, would you agree? Dar?

1481
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:14,200
Speaker 1: I mean, what's that? What's that? That. What's that YouTube video?

1482
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 1: How would people find that YouTube video? That bull comes

1483
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:17,640
Speaker 1: up with screams in your face and you try to

1484
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 1: scare it off. Oh yeah, it's um uh Tracy. Yeah,

1485
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:25,920
Speaker 1: it's encountered with crazy. I I was in Unite with

1486
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:30,000
Speaker 1: Chad Converse and Richard Sprague in two thousand and ten

1487
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 1: and this bull was bugling and I kind of we

1488
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:34,519
Speaker 1: snuck up and they got out in front of me,

1489
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:36,360
Speaker 1: and I cow called and you could tell he was

1490
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:38,559
Speaker 1: just coming, and then he kind of comes and then

1491
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:41,000
Speaker 1: he kind of turns and looks in their direction, and

1492
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:42,920
Speaker 1: I kind of called to him, and he just came

1493
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:45,760
Speaker 1: like on a string, and he ends up coming around

1494
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:48,320
Speaker 1: trying to catch my wind, and he circles me around

1495
01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 1: over here, so you'll see I kind of turned the

1496
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:56,160
Speaker 1: camera and he comes and I'm just sitting like, you know,

1497
01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:58,839
Speaker 1: kind of on my knees, and he comes up bugles

1498
01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:01,439
Speaker 1: into the camera and I thought that's cool. And then

1499
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:03,439
Speaker 1: he takes like five or six more steps and he's

1500
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:06,600
Speaker 1: literally as close or maybe closer. I can't believe you

1501
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:09,679
Speaker 1: didn't try to spook him before that. You know, I've

1502
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:14,559
Speaker 1: been very very close to elk Um before and It's

1503
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:16,840
Speaker 1: just one of those things that worried he's gonna all

1504
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 1: of a sudden just get scared, and all would take

1505
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:21,760
Speaker 1: is him just we always we always laughed at you know,

1506
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:25,600
Speaker 1: whatever you do, keep the camera running. If that happens. Um,

1507
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 1: it's probably not the smartest thing. I don't condone. But

1508
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:33,040
Speaker 1: I love, I mean like it all the safety. I

1509
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:35,880
Speaker 1: love being close to him, and and you know, sometimes

1510
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:38,720
Speaker 1: literally you can, if you play your cards right, you

1511
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 1: can literally probably reach out and touch them as they

1512
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:43,120
Speaker 1: walk by. But you gotta tell me your heart hadn't

1513
01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:45,439
Speaker 1: been raising them. Oh yeah, I was. It was I

1514
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:47,760
Speaker 1: was on full alert. I'm thinking he's got me if

1515
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:52,000
Speaker 1: he wants me, for sure. Video Jay's face is pale

1516
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:55,639
Speaker 1: when you turn a camera back on you a little

1517
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:58,519
Speaker 1: a little cam quarter thing and you're talking about the

1518
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:00,120
Speaker 1: same video on talking about where you want to and

1519
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 1: like you shoot, shoot whoa whobo whoa yeah, wobo yeah,

1520
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:07,320
Speaker 1: and he kind of just look he hesitates and he

1521
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 1: looks at me, and I'm going whobo And he never

1522
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:13,720
Speaker 1: really spits. No, he doesn't know it's on YouTube. You

1523
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:16,599
Speaker 1: can it's on our YouTube. Yeah, he doesn't spook. He's

1524
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:20,160
Speaker 1: so and like I know that in that you like,

1525
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:22,200
Speaker 1: if you're gonna go there, you've been putting him seventeen

1526
01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:23,880
Speaker 1: years all that, Like you're gonna go and you're gonna

1527
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:27,760
Speaker 1: try to kill a giant. You know why not? I would? Um,

1528
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:31,640
Speaker 1: but that bowls like it like like a normal like

1529
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:37,760
Speaker 1: a public land hunter in Colorado, DA. Yeah, And I

1530
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:41,640
Speaker 1: think that's the thing the beauty of Arizona is. You know,

1531
01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:45,479
Speaker 1: it's such good hunting and a lot of guys have

1532
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:47,960
Speaker 1: waited for so long you hate for it to be

1533
01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:51,799
Speaker 1: over with quick. We you know, we book fourteen day hunts.

1534
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:54,439
Speaker 1: We do the whole archery hunt, you know, one on one.

1535
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:58,680
Speaker 1: That's that's you know, I'm taking this guy in Unit nine.

1536
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:01,559
Speaker 1: He's my only hunter. I'm as committed to the hunt

1537
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:04,000
Speaker 1: as he is. And um, we don't you know, we

1538
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:06,360
Speaker 1: don't split the hunt up. We feel like, you know,

1539
01:24:06,439 --> 01:24:08,800
Speaker 1: we want the hunter to be as committed as we

1540
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:11,679
Speaker 1: are to the hunt. So you guys, clients will sometimes

1541
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:14,639
Speaker 1: have you are here, like when you're looking at guided

1542
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:17,320
Speaker 1: hunts as always like two to one, I mean, like

1543
01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:20,800
Speaker 1: two clients one guy. But you guys, some kinds do

1544
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:24,360
Speaker 1: the other way around. Well, most of the close to

1545
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 1: the time for ELP. Dar and I each have a client,

1546
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,120
Speaker 1: but you know there's certain times when we maybe not.

1547
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:32,639
Speaker 1: We might each have an archery client, but we don't

1548
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:36,200
Speaker 1: have a muzzleloader an early rifle. And most every situation

1549
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:38,920
Speaker 1: like that, if I don't have a client, I stay

1550
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:41,040
Speaker 1: and helped oar with his client. If he doesn't have

1551
01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:43,479
Speaker 1: a client, he stays and helps me. Yeah. Or if

1552
01:24:43,520 --> 01:24:46,400
Speaker 1: we shoot line bull on narratory hunt and the other

1553
01:24:46,439 --> 01:24:50,080
Speaker 1: guy's got two guys helping. Yeah, And it always seems

1554
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:55,799
Speaker 1: like there's somebody else from your community that's like glass.

1555
01:24:55,880 --> 01:24:58,320
Speaker 1: And so if you don't like to call, what do

1556
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:01,000
Speaker 1: you like? How do you do it? Like? What's your philosophy?

1557
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:02,800
Speaker 1: I just like to get in front of them. And

1558
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:05,679
Speaker 1: it's not that I don't call, because I do. Jay's

1559
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:10,519
Speaker 1: got me calling some but um my, I'm not as

1560
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:12,960
Speaker 1: good of callers Jay. If I if I was, I

1561
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:15,880
Speaker 1: certainly would call more, but I'm not, so I have

1562
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:20,800
Speaker 1: to use you know, stalking to get in on them. Um.

1563
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:23,960
Speaker 1: I just like my theory is that if I can

1564
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:25,720
Speaker 1: get in front of them and they don't know him, there,

1565
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:27,880
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not calling to him, so they're not

1566
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:30,240
Speaker 1: looking at me in front of them, meaning when they're

1567
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:33,920
Speaker 1: traveling to when they're traveling or when they're out feeding.

1568
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:37,800
Speaker 1: You know, I'm trying to stay parallel to them and

1569
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:40,280
Speaker 1: then just keep getting closer, hooking in front of them,

1570
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:42,679
Speaker 1: and they're going to pass by, like on an archery hunt.

1571
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest challenges with them, what

1572
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:49,360
Speaker 1: Dar's talking about, is the elk, no matter what, are

1573
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:52,960
Speaker 1: always walking into the wind. So when Dar says get

1574
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:55,559
Speaker 1: in front of him, he never actually gets in front

1575
01:25:55,600 --> 01:26:00,720
Speaker 1: of him because they were parallel in but and then

1576
01:26:00,720 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 1: at the least closer. Yeah, And so that's the trick

1577
01:26:04,600 --> 01:26:07,880
Speaker 1: that I mean, definitely hunting in the Southwest a lot

1578
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:10,360
Speaker 1: of times will chase out in line after these bulls

1579
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:12,559
Speaker 1: and line out after these bulls, and we'll go for

1580
01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:14,679
Speaker 1: a mile a mile and a half before we even

1581
01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:17,000
Speaker 1: just decide to hook in. I mean we'll be patient,

1582
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:20,000
Speaker 1: be patient, be patient and cooking, and you might hook

1583
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:23,479
Speaker 1: in and you might be thirty seconds later, twenty yards

1584
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:26,320
Speaker 1: late where there. So yeah, and then you got to

1585
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:29,040
Speaker 1: loop around and do it again. And the challenge too

1586
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:31,479
Speaker 1: is um you know, usually the cows are in the

1587
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:33,920
Speaker 1: lead and the bulls always in the back. And the

1588
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:37,360
Speaker 1: cows are so wary and such. You've got to cook

1589
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:39,880
Speaker 1: in enough that the cows don't win you, but getting

1590
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:41,840
Speaker 1: close enough where you have a shot at that bowl

1591
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:44,559
Speaker 1: when he comes by. So I mean it's truly Dar's

1592
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:47,240
Speaker 1: phenomenal at it um, but it's truly something you kind

1593
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:49,320
Speaker 1: of have to learn how to do. And you know,

1594
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:50,800
Speaker 1: if you get in front of him, you win them.

1595
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:52,800
Speaker 1: You've now spooked them and they take off and now

1596
01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:54,880
Speaker 1: you've got to find a new group of elk the chase.

1597
01:26:54,920 --> 01:26:57,439
Speaker 1: But you also gotta if you don't push the envelope,

1598
01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:00,840
Speaker 1: you'll never get it cracking. It's a fine line because

1599
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:03,320
Speaker 1: if you if you stay too far back and behind him,

1600
01:27:03,320 --> 01:27:06,280
Speaker 1: you'll just never catch up. You know, in my own years,

1601
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:10,200
Speaker 1: like like I bowl hunted for out heavily for almost

1602
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:13,360
Speaker 1: a decade um where you kind of like my brother

1603
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:16,679
Speaker 1: and I had a place we hunted, We knew it well.

1604
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:20,160
Speaker 1: He still hunted. He does much better now than he

1605
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:24,080
Speaker 1: did when he was with me. Um, But we would

1606
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:26,960
Speaker 1: all we talked about that line all the time. Without

1607
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 1: we're on one hand, you can just sit and plot,

1608
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:34,600
Speaker 1: you know, like at five o'clock, you know, like the

1609
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:38,120
Speaker 1: sun gets there. They always come over. It takes about

1610
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:41,560
Speaker 1: blank time and then the whole herds over. Then you

1611
01:27:41,560 --> 01:27:43,120
Speaker 1: can kind of come in behind him and get down

1612
01:27:43,160 --> 01:27:45,360
Speaker 1: the ridge and you know, and you watch that whole

1613
01:27:45,400 --> 01:27:48,400
Speaker 1: thing for a day and then like you go to

1614
01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:50,479
Speaker 1: make a move the next day, but the winds that right,

1615
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:52,879
Speaker 1: you know, but you're only hunting the three day weekend,

1616
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:55,600
Speaker 1: and you're always sort of like at some point you

1617
01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:58,920
Speaker 1: just gotta get there in risk doing it. And then

1618
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:00,640
Speaker 1: you get in there and spook and you're like, man,

1619
01:28:00,680 --> 01:28:02,720
Speaker 1: should have waited. Yeah, you know, it just seems like

1620
01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:06,200
Speaker 1: such a situation, you know, like like you're just running.

1621
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 1: It's a fine line, definitely is a fine line. And

1622
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 1: every now then you get lucky where you've been paralleling

1623
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:13,840
Speaker 1: for so long and instead of you hooking, yeah, you

1624
01:28:13,840 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 1: get yeah, yeah, you get dealt that nice wild card

1625
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:18,680
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden they're just decided to hook

1626
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 1: in front of you, or another bull bugles and there

1627
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:23,240
Speaker 1: the bull you know, the cow's keep going and the

1628
01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:25,639
Speaker 1: bull stops and rakes a tree and boom, you're right there.

1629
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 1: So I was watching, uh, I was watching the episode

1630
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:37,280
Speaker 1: of of the show Western Hunter, and um, it was

1631
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:40,680
Speaker 1: that shows different hosts, but it was Matt Simmons was

1632
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:46,800
Speaker 1: on there, yes, and um sorry, and he was like

1633
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:49,719
Speaker 1: he got of like summed up his ELK cunning strategy

1634
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:52,360
Speaker 1: and like such simple terms, but having done some ELK conning,

1635
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:54,439
Speaker 1: it makes total sense. He basically like, I like to

1636
01:28:54,439 --> 01:28:56,760
Speaker 1: get close away for something to happen. Yeah, And that

1637
01:28:57,000 --> 01:28:58,599
Speaker 1: sounds kind of like flip it. But then you're kind

1638
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:00,280
Speaker 1: of like, I know exactly what you're talking about. You

1639
01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:02,320
Speaker 1: kind of get in there and it's like it's dynamic,

1640
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:04,760
Speaker 1: like things are changing, you know, and now and then

1641
01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:07,760
Speaker 1: like I remember one time didn't work out. Remember one

1642
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:10,320
Speaker 1: time like doing that and all of a sudden realize

1643
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:12,240
Speaker 1: that the bowl I've been sneaking up, I just got

1644
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:16,040
Speaker 1: totally engrossed and thrashing a tree, you know, And I

1645
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:18,639
Speaker 1: could have driven a quad runner up on him at

1646
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:21,320
Speaker 1: that point, you know, because it's just like something happened,

1647
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:24,080
Speaker 1: Like he's super were he bedded down, there's no where

1648
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:25,439
Speaker 1: you're gonna get anywhere near him, And all of a a

1649
01:29:25,479 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 1: sudden he stands out and you're like that dude is

1650
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:32,479
Speaker 1: just oblivious because you're shredded that tree. And then you

1651
01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:35,320
Speaker 1: know there is like something happened. You know, Yeah, you

1652
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 1: gotta just shadow him, and I hope they make a mistake.

1653
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:40,240
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what you're doing well. And I think

1654
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:44,080
Speaker 1: our terrain too, is a lot different than other states. Um,

1655
01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:46,120
Speaker 1: you know, we can travel with the help a lot

1656
01:29:46,320 --> 01:29:49,280
Speaker 1: better down here. We're not running through the you know,

1657
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:53,759
Speaker 1: broken down blue spruce, you know, um blowdowns and stuff.

1658
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:56,280
Speaker 1: You know, you guys got that nice you guys offer

1659
01:29:56,800 --> 01:29:59,120
Speaker 1: that nice bed of pine needles too, and and then

1660
01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:03,479
Speaker 1: it's flat and so we can really run with these

1661
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:05,280
Speaker 1: elk and it's just a lot of fun. If you

1662
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:09,400
Speaker 1: haven't experienced Arizona, you know, it's something that you've got

1663
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:12,160
Speaker 1: to apply for. And and you know, there are units

1664
01:30:12,200 --> 01:30:14,479
Speaker 1: that you can draw with five or six seven points

1665
01:30:14,479 --> 01:30:17,240
Speaker 1: as a non resident, that you can have bigleen bowls.

1666
01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:20,360
Speaker 1: And maybe they're not the giant you know, three three

1667
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:23,280
Speaker 1: sixty plus type bowls, but a lot of you know,

1668
01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:26,599
Speaker 1: three hundred three twenty bulls, which most people are just

1669
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:28,960
Speaker 1: tickled pink with. And there's a chance at a three

1670
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:32,080
Speaker 1: fifty bowl and every unit in the state, so it's

1671
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:35,800
Speaker 1: always a chance. I have some number of points, but

1672
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:37,599
Speaker 1: I'm still kind of just saving them up. You know

1673
01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:41,800
Speaker 1: how many points do you have fruit? I can tell

1674
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:45,280
Speaker 1: you by looking it up. I can't, I mean four

1675
01:30:45,360 --> 01:30:50,800
Speaker 1: or five? I think so I'll be calling you guys

1676
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:56,320
Speaker 1: in twenty years like alright, man, were yeah, all right,

1677
01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:58,280
Speaker 1: well I'm gonna we're have you guys are gonna have

1678
01:30:58,320 --> 01:31:00,519
Speaker 1: we have to sit down again because we can talk

1679
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:04,439
Speaker 1: about the things I'm actually most interested in. It is

1680
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:09,439
Speaker 1: hunting googled's turkeys and hunting Cou's dear. So I guess

1681
01:31:09,479 --> 01:31:12,040
Speaker 1: this is we would think of this. J and R.

1682
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 1: Tell over your website, Jay Scott Outdoors dot com, Colburn

1683
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:20,280
Speaker 1: and Scott Outfitters dot com the same website, two websites.

1684
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:24,120
Speaker 1: They're different that they were just like the same, just

1685
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:27,840
Speaker 1: two ways getting our guiding. Our guiding website is the

1686
01:31:27,880 --> 01:31:31,160
Speaker 1: Colburn and Scott Outfitters dot com. And then um, all

1687
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:34,600
Speaker 1: of our other adventures fishing, all the hunting, all the

1688
01:31:34,720 --> 01:31:37,840
Speaker 1: gear stuff, what have you with Jay Scott Outdoors dot com.

1689
01:31:38,040 --> 01:31:41,080
Speaker 1: And then you can go on and look up encounter

1690
01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:45,960
Speaker 1: with Ale one crazy crazy I so check that out.

1691
01:31:46,400 --> 01:31:48,360
Speaker 1: It's good stuff. Alright, guys, we're gonna do it again

1692
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:53,040
Speaker 1: and talk about more stuff. But thanks for listening, everybody, um,

1693
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:55,160
Speaker 1: best of luck, make sure to get in here. It's

1694
01:31:55,160 --> 01:32:01,320
Speaker 1: too late now, but the two thousand what sixteen applications

1695
01:32:01,320 --> 01:32:03,439
Speaker 1: Deer and Deer and Sheep is coming up in Gene,

1696
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:05,639
Speaker 1: So get your deer and sheep applications in. It's your

1697
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:07,880
Speaker 1: deer and sheep applications, and in twenty years you might

1698
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:11,439
Speaker 1: be on the phone with Jane Scott. Jane