Speaker 1: Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Table Pop podcast, all your favorite episodes from the
Speaker 1: Facebook watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. We all know we have a problem
Speaker 1: with women of color in one corner and white women
Speaker 1: in another corner. So how do we close the gap?
Speaker 1: How do we dissolve the divide? You may wonder why
Speaker 1: why we should care. The fact is that no woman
Speaker 1: is free until all women are free. Race is never
Speaker 1: an easy subject, but that's what the Red Table is
Speaker 1: here for to push ourselves to have conversations that scare us.
Speaker 1: So in honor Black History Month, we brought three women
Speaker 1: with different backgrounds to help us understand their experiences. Rachel
Speaker 1: Cargo is a former nanny whose life changed after this
Speaker 1: photo from the Women's March went viral. She's a writer
Speaker 1: for Harvest Bazaar Online, with articles such as how to
Speaker 1: talk to your family about racism on Thanksgiving and when
Speaker 1: I asked the RTT family who should come to the
Speaker 1: table to talk about race, she was your top choice. Writer.
Speaker 1: Amy Newman, a mom of a team daughter just like me,
Speaker 1: stirred up controversy with a groundbreaking and brave article admitting
Speaker 1: her own white privilege. Award winning actress Justina Machado, the
Speaker 1: beloved and outspoken star of the Netflix hit One Day
Speaker 1: at a Time, was recently named Latina of Influence and
Speaker 1: says the conversations about race can't just be black and white.
Speaker 1: I just, first of all, I want to say thank
Speaker 1: you to you guys for being here, for being here
Speaker 1: and this conversation about how we can flow power to
Speaker 1: one another. And I definitely believe there's this huge break
Speaker 1: between women of color and white women. I just want
Speaker 1: to kind of figure out how we can have conversations,
Speaker 1: you know, just smooth conversation because emotional, because I get
Speaker 1: really emotional to the point of anger, because my husband
Speaker 1: is always like, we can't even have a conversation. Let
Speaker 1: me ask you a question, because you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of black women feel like it is not our job
Speaker 1: to educate white women. Do you feel that way? White
Speaker 1: women treat race issues like rocket science, and they say,
Speaker 1: how am I supposed to talk? I supposed to do things.
Speaker 1: White women treat race as if it's the hardest thing
Speaker 1: ever you've done. Lots of hard things. You've raised children
Speaker 1: with no guide book, You've gotten married with no guide book,
Speaker 1: You've traveled the world, you've gone to college. But for
Speaker 1: some reason, they need a step by step when it
Speaker 1: comes to anti racism work. And I'm not sure why. Yeah, all, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I learning. I will say, you know, I
Speaker 1: can't speak for all white women, but white women are
Speaker 1: we constantly look to women of color to tell us, like,
Speaker 1: you know, tell me what is it like to be
Speaker 1: a black woman? What is it like to be Latina?
Speaker 1: White women have to take on the labor of doing
Speaker 1: this work. It is not up to women of color.
Speaker 1: I find that interesting that do white women really ask
Speaker 1: what's it like to be black women? Because I've ever
Speaker 1: been asked that question because I have locks under this,
Speaker 1: but I've been asked many times, how do you wash
Speaker 1: your hair? Like? Is it the same as everyone else?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah. I always tell white women singer
Speaker 1: white children to a summer camp where they're the minority
Speaker 1: for a summer. Do that let them let them experience
Speaker 1: the world differently. Can you explain to me how Latin
Speaker 1: women are being heard or not heard in regards to
Speaker 1: what is happening today? I think you're heard if you're famous. God. Uh,
Speaker 1: And that's about it because I think right now, so
Speaker 1: many of the conversations are black and white, and then
Speaker 1: we fall like where do we fall? What happens to us?
Speaker 1: Where are we in these conversations? We're not all liberal,
Speaker 1: there are some that are conservative. Do you know there's
Speaker 1: another people don't know about us. How do we bring
Speaker 1: that all together even amongst us. I'm gonna tell you
Speaker 1: something that's an interesting dynamic. It is, right, I would
Speaker 1: imagine it makes it very complex to unify. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: we're all colonized, so we already feel we're better than
Speaker 1: the other one about all that going out and you're like,
Speaker 1: are you kidding? And it's even like the light skinned
Speaker 1: dark people think Latins can't be racist? Come on, yeah,
Speaker 1: come on, this is we have. This we have because
Speaker 1: we were having the conversation about what racism is. So
Speaker 1: let me just say racism is a structure, not an event.
Speaker 1: When a group's collective prejudice is backed by the institutional control,
Speaker 1: it is a system of advantage based on race. Those
Speaker 1: advantages are known as white privilege, and then it is
Speaker 1: taken for granted by whites and not enjoyed in the
Speaker 1: same context as people of color. I think that no
Speaker 1: matter what your skin color, if you're exhibiting behavior that's hateful,
Speaker 1: you are racist. Here's the thing. Racism is structural. It's
Speaker 1: all through our institutions, it's in our education, how we're
Speaker 1: in doctrine. People of color cannot be racist against each
Speaker 1: other because we don't have a system against each other.
Speaker 1: But we can be You can have internalized racism. When
Speaker 1: you say, I don't you know a darker person of
Speaker 1: color in a week, I guess it would be called
Speaker 1: racism is the system, and white people are at that space.
Speaker 1: People of color are here in a system where white
Speaker 1: people are the knowers and everyone else is to be known.
Speaker 1: But why is white the default? So we internalize that
Speaker 1: and we show that I just um and then then
Speaker 1: it all into one word, and it's not for me.
Speaker 1: I'm not negatively impacted. If I walk out of a
Speaker 1: scenario where your prejudice against me, I walk back into
Speaker 1: the white world. Yeah, somebody can be prejudiced against me,
Speaker 1: but the structures in the system that we live in,
Speaker 1: that's it. Or whatever whatever prejudice I have against you
Speaker 1: is temporary. Yeah, one right, exactly exactly, a light skin,
Speaker 1: educated black woman who people listen to. So I challenge
Speaker 1: my followers, are you listening to your black neighbor, Are
Speaker 1: you listening to your black you know, coworker, are you
Speaker 1: listening to the little black girl who plays with your child?
Speaker 1: Or they're lasting a woman who takes care of your child? Okay,
Speaker 1: listening to that A moment for that a moment, all right,
Speaker 1: That's that's really tall. The truth is until and this
Speaker 1: is a quote from Audrey Lord, until all women are free,
Speaker 1: No one's free. That's true, that's not and that's the
Speaker 1: white women don't understand. No one's free to all free.
Speaker 1: That's my belief. We all need each other, and I
Speaker 1: believe that white women are very clear about that, which
Speaker 1: is why they tend to rally for our support, your support,
Speaker 1: our support, Rachel. It's just not Yeah, they rallied for
Speaker 1: the support, but it's not it's not reciprocated. I mean,
Speaker 1: how many of the women at the Women's March showed
Speaker 1: up at Black Lives Matter purchase and we were all
Speaker 1: saying that we were there. I'd call it a parade,
Speaker 1: and the Women's March was a parade of white women
Speaker 1: who wanted to feel like they were included in something
Speaker 1: not much changed, and how they were showing up for
Speaker 1: people of color. That's funny that you thought it was
Speaker 1: a parade. I felt like I felt so happy to
Speaker 1: be there, and so I was empowered and I felt, wow,
Speaker 1: this is incredible, But the receipt didn't show up. One
Speaker 1: of my rules is in our business, I look at
Speaker 1: the resume when people call me up and they're like, hey,
Speaker 1: can you come to this event it I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: be taking no pictures with you on the red carpet
Speaker 1: until you've shown improve that you actually have been doing
Speaker 1: some working. In my opinion, we've got to stop flowing
Speaker 1: power for the photo exactly. You know as well as
Speaker 1: I do. There's a lot of performance going on. So
Speaker 1: when I'm talking about holding people accountable in regards to
Speaker 1: even what we're doing on a personal level of like, okay,
Speaker 1: so you're saying you've got this thing going on, okay,
Speaker 1: and you want to be inclusive, but how are you
Speaker 1: practicing that so called inclusivity. Show me the receipts. We
Speaker 1: have to take it into action. We have to do
Speaker 1: the work. We've got to read, we've got to support
Speaker 1: black women and Latino women and support organizations that are
Speaker 1: run by women of color. We need to support, you know,
Speaker 1: like artists who are people from candidates for a people
Speaker 1: of color. It is past time a same like in
Speaker 1: day to day life as women of color, we really
Speaker 1: have to recognize when white women come in to help
Speaker 1: that we make room for it. Because there's been a
Speaker 1: couple of times like if a trust is it is
Speaker 1: trust is Sue. I understand that. But at right so
Speaker 1: I get it. But at some point where are we
Speaker 1: as black women going to be able to recognize an ally?
Speaker 1: This is all power place. So in order to shift
Speaker 1: that power needs to shift. So white women need to
Speaker 1: step back and say, why don't you guys have a
Speaker 1: black woman take my place on this cover? Mean to
Speaker 1: give up the power, whether it's in your home, in
Speaker 1: your career, when to give and that's always going to
Speaker 1: mean for white women that we may not get that
Speaker 1: job that we really want. That that's what we're going
Speaker 1: to ask, give up the power. But but and that
Speaker 1: it also applies to yes to raise. It's not a
Speaker 1: matter of black women saying, hey, we're open to you
Speaker 1: being an ally to us. That's not the case it's
Speaker 1: white women showing up and saying, you have a righteous anger.
Speaker 1: You're allowed to be livid at the things that we
Speaker 1: have imposed on you over history. And instead of acting
Speaker 1: like they don't know, yes, yes, and white women like
Speaker 1: they have no responsibility, yes, yes, yes, They say, why
Speaker 1: do I have to deal with what my ancestors did?
Speaker 1: And I say, until I don't have to deal with
Speaker 1: the consequences of what happened to my ancestors, I will
Speaker 1: be holding you accountable for what your ancestors did because
Speaker 1: you're still benefiting from what they built on the backs
Speaker 1: of people. But it's not wasn't me, Like, why are
Speaker 1: you getting on me? This anger? Is it for me? This?
Speaker 1: This is all you. Either they're the hero or they're
Speaker 1: the victim they ran. They rarely take responsibility when women
Speaker 1: say like, I have a lot of anger, of course
Speaker 1: it's righteous, Like it is righteous when I'm in that
Speaker 1: space of anger. Almost every single time I get a
Speaker 1: vibe of it's really not that serious that it happens
Speaker 1: on a set all the time. I was. If a
Speaker 1: white woman acts like, gets really upset about something, it
Speaker 1: starts going crazy, then it's understandable I do it. Then
Speaker 1: they're scared of me. That's the real thing that happens
Speaker 1: to a lot of people. But control yourself. I'm like,
Speaker 1: what about how many people of color experiencing these things?
Speaker 1: Like is it just me? Am? I like no one else?
Speaker 1: And we have to see each other. Here's the thing
Speaker 1: for me that I'm hoping you can help me understand
Speaker 1: as well. White women have dealt with patriarchy. There's so
Speaker 1: much privilege in whiteness. And the phrase that I use
Speaker 1: is that white women often choose their whiteness over their
Speaker 1: womanhood because there's deep safety in that they know that
Speaker 1: at least in their whiteness, they have the white men
Speaker 1: protecting them. White women must sit in the room and
Speaker 1: be like, we'll deal with a little bit of patriarchy
Speaker 1: as long as we keep our white privilege. When it
Speaker 1: shows up that way, but that is what it is.
Speaker 1: We benefit directly from that white privilege, from white supremacy.
Speaker 1: We have to like undo that. But I will say
Speaker 1: it has been an evolution for me because I wasn't
Speaker 1: always there. I entered this work through sort of reproductive
Speaker 1: health and rights, and the more I sort of learned
Speaker 1: about women's bodies and the inequity that you know, and
Speaker 1: the treatment that certain women gets and historical you know,
Speaker 1: treatment of black women's bodies, of Puerto Rican women and
Speaker 1: made women a lot of women sterile. And so I
Speaker 1: thought that there's these are points of intersection. You know,
Speaker 1: no matter what color, we have been taught to be
Speaker 1: silent and not believe in ourselves. That's a good point.
Speaker 1: That's a really good point. Why women do feel the
Speaker 1: pain of the patriarchy. We feel the pages. This isn't
Speaker 1: the oppression Olympics. It doesn't mean that then women of color,
Speaker 1: or Puerto Rican women, or trans women or or lesbians
Speaker 1: or you know, don't have another layer of oppression. And
Speaker 1: it's something that I cannot understand. I don't I can't
Speaker 1: understand it, but I also benefit. This is why we
Speaker 1: need to use our platforms as a white women and
Speaker 1: white women. White women's platforms are their dinner tables, it's
Speaker 1: their children, it's their classrooms. It's when you walk into
Speaker 1: a conference at work asked, why are there any black
Speaker 1: women on this panel? Why is my child's school completely
Speaker 1: staffed by white women? Why? You know, to get to that,
Speaker 1: it's white people using their platforms to say this is
Speaker 1: important to this household, this is important to this work culture,
Speaker 1: and then it will all domino into us being like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's work together on this. But it's so funny when
Speaker 1: I post pictures of like me and one of my
Speaker 1: best friends who's white, they're like what because it's this
Speaker 1: has my My passion comes out of a deep belief that, like,
Speaker 1: we are approaching this moment that equality could possibly happen.
Speaker 1: I think part of what I am trying to do
Speaker 1: when I talk to other white women is to let uh,
Speaker 1: all of us know, like we are not the center.
Speaker 1: White women and white men. We like to center ourselves
Speaker 1: in every conversation. So it's like, yeah, but how does
Speaker 1: this affect me and I? You know, and they come
Speaker 1: and they come in and they say, you don't know
Speaker 1: how to well, somebody once said to me, I am white, um,
Speaker 1: and I don't get white privilege? Why do you? I
Speaker 1: don't get that. I didn't. I didn't know how to
Speaker 1: answer that's how Yeah, And instead of all I could
Speaker 1: say was well, could you walk into a store and
Speaker 1: do they ask you if you need help? Because I've
Speaker 1: certainly walked into stores before and they never asked me
Speaker 1: if I needed help. And also have you been followed
Speaker 1: in the store. They do that a lot of Chicago,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, when a police officer is around,
Speaker 1: not even just around, that's right, because as soon as
Speaker 1: a police officer is around, within myself from like okay,
Speaker 1: like and it's I'm looking, I'm feeling sust exactly. Like
Speaker 1: I got pulled over by a police officer and I
Speaker 1: literally was so freaked out that I was like, I
Speaker 1: was taking pictures of where I was. I was my mom.
Speaker 1: I was like, if he does anything to me, you're
Speaker 1: gonna know exactly, and I was I was like, this
Speaker 1: is crazy. I was like, I'm literally terrified, exactly. I'm
Speaker 1: from a police officer who were supposed to believe protected us.
Speaker 1: In my workshops, I have the white woman write down
Speaker 1: the words of how you would feel if you woke
Speaker 1: up tomorrow as a black person, and everyone's words are scared, overwhelmed, unheard, unseen,
Speaker 1: and that should show you if you're not waking up
Speaker 1: feeling that way every single day, then you hold a
Speaker 1: privilege that black people are lacking. Exactly. It always says
Speaker 1: two to tangle. That's always how I think about it.
Speaker 1: And I'm really clear on what white people need to
Speaker 1: do and just making sure that I'm accountable for what
Speaker 1: I need to be doing with my Latin sisters, just
Speaker 1: like I know, damn well, if I'm sitting in a
Speaker 1: row with my Latin sisters, I'm stretting up because I
Speaker 1: need to listen about what is needed because I know
Speaker 1: I don't know. Just to answer your own question, how
Speaker 1: would you feel welcomed as you're saying we need to
Speaker 1: welcome white women, Um, here is your sister, so just
Speaker 1: you show up. No, But the fact that I'm here
Speaker 1: means I just need for you to know that and
Speaker 1: have the openness and willingness to show me how okay.
Speaker 1: I don't know all the time the nuance. So we
Speaker 1: show up, I listen, and I so shaw, can I
Speaker 1: support your movements? What do I need to say I
Speaker 1: need to do because I need you exactly just show me.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be here with you. I'm gonna learn. That
Speaker 1: was one of the reasons why I learned Spanish. My
Speaker 1: Latin sisters are suffering too. I need to be able
Speaker 1: to communicate this. I don't feel like there's a bunch
Speaker 1: of spaces where white women were coming in and like
Speaker 1: women are just like leave. They might be kind of
Speaker 1: because wich that either I just know that we can
Speaker 1: have a certain kind of like why are you here?
Speaker 1: That that is the mean that I've had to kind
Speaker 1: of get over a little bit, because you trust, you
Speaker 1: have to earn that relationship. You can earn your trust.
Speaker 1: But even if you know, if it's a dude new
Speaker 1: in your life, you'll be like, all right, so what
Speaker 1: the hell are you here for? You know you're going on.
Speaker 1: You don't really mind, so you're thinking me a for
Speaker 1: bood and you asked me to go out for what? No,
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, you're here. That's nice. So let's see
Speaker 1: where this goes. I think a relationship because that person
Speaker 1: doesn't hurt you yet. White women in generation generation so
Speaker 1: we have we have about that lack of trust and
Speaker 1: white women because saying that we're just saying we're asking
Speaker 1: white women to take a leap. I believe that we
Speaker 1: have to take leaps as well. We do. And that's
Speaker 1: just me, right, And you know what, that's just me
Speaker 1: I believe. And if you disappoint me, all right, that's
Speaker 1: so you do you think the majority of black women
Speaker 1: react to white women like that? Is that why you
Speaker 1: you feel the need to address it because it's so many.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of us that you know, because of that, rightfully,
Speaker 1: so weird angry, rightfully. So I'm not saying that we
Speaker 1: don't have a right to be angry, and I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that we don't have the right to have that
Speaker 1: lack of trust, because we do. All. I'm saying though
Speaker 1: we need them, they need us, we need we all
Speaker 1: need each other. We have to be able to sit
Speaker 1: in a bit of vulnerability to allow for a certain
Speaker 1: kind of healing to occur. We got to be open
Speaker 1: to and I might not have the right words for it,
Speaker 1: It's not gonna happen on our own. I identify as
Speaker 1: a feminist because I truly believe in the equality for
Speaker 1: all women. I'm out here just fighting for black women
Speaker 1: and for me to show up as a feminist, I too,
Speaker 1: am showing up for women. And so I think there
Speaker 1: isn't And I think that's the thing we have to
Speaker 1: remember as Black women that we have we're showing up
Speaker 1: for all women because we know white women included, because
Speaker 1: we know like that, are we gonna do the fishball?
Speaker 1: Who wants to who wants to go first? Let me
Speaker 1: see Okay, Jenny from Texas. As a white woman, I
Speaker 1: feel women of color stereotype me also the same way
Speaker 1: they criticize white people for doing the same. Isn't that hypocritical?
Speaker 1: Okay versus Jenny, I highly suggest you reframe your question
Speaker 1: in terms of the patriarchy. If a man came in
Speaker 1: with all of the emotions that you bring to say, well,
Speaker 1: not all men are like this, you'd be like, I know,
Speaker 1: but enough are to keep me on safe from what
Speaker 1: I understand. I think it's a story that Muhammad Ali said,
Speaker 1: where he was describing his fear of white people, that
Speaker 1: if there's a thousand poisonous stakes coming towards you, and
Speaker 1: someone says, but five of them aren't poisonous, I'm still
Speaker 1: shutting the door because there's a huge chance that I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get hurt. So it's not about stereotyping, it's not
Speaker 1: about being hypocritical. It's about black bodies and danger, and
Speaker 1: so there has to be a space of us protecting
Speaker 1: ourselves while still doing that work. I love That's that's
Speaker 1: the question that's asked a lot. Okay, this is Karen
Speaker 1: from San Jose. Are most of your friends the same ethnicity.
Speaker 1: There's a differentiation from me between friends and associates. So
Speaker 1: I have a lot of associates that are white, but
Speaker 1: friends is a more intimate definition of a relationship for me,
Speaker 1: and now I don't have a lot of friends. We
Speaker 1: just did this exercise yesterday actually at a at a
Speaker 1: diversity training I was at, and she had us list
Speaker 1: like who are your neighbors like race and gender? Who
Speaker 1: are your friends? Who were your teachers? And I looked
Speaker 1: at my list and I was almost all white for me,
Speaker 1: and that that is so But I think that it's
Speaker 1: so true. We we we have to preach out all right, Okay,
Speaker 1: Rita from Florida, I'm a white woman and I'm sick
Speaker 1: of hearing about my privilege. I've been raped, I've been abused,
Speaker 1: I've lost out jobs to men both black and white.
Speaker 1: Why is my past any less traumatic than a woman
Speaker 1: of color? Wow? There it is. I get it. I
Speaker 1: totally get it, Rita. And we all have these traumas,
Speaker 1: and we all have these places in our lives where
Speaker 1: we've been impacted in ways that are awful. But with
Speaker 1: your white skin, that is it wasn't it wasn't big? Well, yes,
Speaker 1: and you still walk through the world as a white
Speaker 1: person that is privileged. And it doesn't mean your whole
Speaker 1: life is privileged, and it doesn't mean that we don't
Speaker 1: all have pain. And here here's the thing, she's experienced
Speaker 1: hainous acts upon her body personally. Now, we as women
Speaker 1: are not safe because of our gender, and it's this compact.
Speaker 1: A lot of times white women say, I'm not privileged,
Speaker 1: I have mental health issues, I have this, and I go,
Speaker 1: there's so many black women who also have been to
Speaker 1: health issues, who also have gone through all those things,
Speaker 1: and they walk in the world with no one believing
Speaker 1: them because they're black, because they're period. End of discussion.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna keep talking about. This is about. See
Speaker 1: that right there, just so that's you, that's what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. Gotta work on that party, Lauren from Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: Jane Elliott said, there's only one race, the human race,
Speaker 1: human race, and that's and while I think it's rooted
Speaker 1: in the right sentiment, does this do a disservice to
Speaker 1: marginalized members of society who have to deal with inequality
Speaker 1: every day? Yes, Lauren, if we were living in a
Speaker 1: completely different society with completely different rules and completely different power.
Speaker 1: We could forever and all days skip around and talk
Speaker 1: about how we're the same race, but in America, we're
Speaker 1: not the same race. In America, when my black sun
Speaker 1: walks out and your white sun walks out, there will
Speaker 1: live been two completely different experiences based on their race alone. Right,
Speaker 1: So I think it did do it just service. It
Speaker 1: has to be acknowledged. You cannot fix what you ignore.
Speaker 1: With everything that we've talked about and with your vision,
Speaker 1: all three of you, what is your hope. Well, my
Speaker 1: hope is is that we all come together. I mean
Speaker 1: it's even sitting here, it's been so interesting the difference,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like where is the common ground?
Speaker 1: And that's what seems to be so difficult. But that's
Speaker 1: my hope that is, just keep having that conversation to
Speaker 1: find it. Rachel. We're often told to kind of like
Speaker 1: hush it a little bit or calm down a little bit.
Speaker 1: But this is the time for it. This is the
Speaker 1: time for us to show up, show up, hard shop
Speaker 1: fashion up, ready with our receipts to do the work.
Speaker 1: So I hope that's my hope that we all show
Speaker 1: up and we all do the work. My hope is
Speaker 1: that we're raising all of our children in a way
Speaker 1: that allows them to express their full selves, because these
Speaker 1: are the kids who are going to lead us into
Speaker 1: this next place. And let's not let perfect be the
Speaker 1: enemy of the good. Let's just keep going and let's
Speaker 1: just show up, right, ladies, I'll tell you what this
Speaker 1: has been. This has been really good. Thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for Wolf to join the Red
Speaker 1: Table Talk family and become a part of the conversation.
Speaker 1: Follow us at facebook dot com slash red table talk.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Table Talk
Speaker 1: podcast produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.