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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel, I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're answering your listener questions.

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Speaker 2: You know, a buddy, We've got listener questions to get

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Speaker 2: to some very specific.

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Speaker 1: Questions that we're going to answer.

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Speaker 2: These are our case studies. We talk about personal finance

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Speaker 2: very broadly. Actually we get personal when it comes to

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Speaker 2: different things that we're doing. But there's a greater variety

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Speaker 2: in the different types of topics we're able to cover

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Speaker 2: when we get to hear from all of you wonderful

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Speaker 2: listeners out there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate this betificity of some of these questions,

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Speaker 1: and it dives into the details that sometimes we're covering

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Speaker 1: the main points, we're.

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Speaker 2: Kind of glassing over some of the particulars. Yes, and

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Speaker 2: I see to dive in deep sometimes I totally agree.

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Speaker 2: For instance, a listener is wondering if he should be

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Speaker 2: jumping to a higher interest savings rate bank, if it's

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Speaker 2: gonna be worth it. Turns out the amount of money

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Speaker 2: that he's got on hand. It pertains to the answer

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Speaker 2: that we'll give. We're gonna talk about four three bes,

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Speaker 2: four fifty sevens. These are the less traditional retirement accounts

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Speaker 2: that we're gonna get to some.

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Speaker 1: People have access to two major retirement accounts.

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Speaker 2: Which well, he is insane more than that as well.

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Speaker 2: There these are accounts that we don't talk much about,

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Speaker 2: but I think I'm want to make it a point

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Speaker 2: for us to cover these a bit more often. We're

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Speaker 2: also gonna hear from a listener who's looking to build

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Speaker 2: an ADU, an accessory dwelling unit as to whether or

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Speaker 2: not they should finance it. We'll dive into those particulars

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I man, I was super close to building an

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Speaker 1: ADU in my backyard back in the day. Remember there

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Speaker 1: was a company around the corner from us who had

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Speaker 1: started a business kind of like the old Seers robut catalogs,

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Speaker 1: and they said, we've got three types of agues we build.

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Speaker 1: Which one do you want?

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Speaker 3: Man?

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Speaker 1: Price? Yeah, and I loved.

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Speaker 2: They all had super suburban, preppy names. It's like, are

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Speaker 2: you going with the Worthington?

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Speaker 1: I forget what the what they're actually called. The Kirkwood

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Speaker 1: I think was might everyone. But they were very cool looking. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were cool looking. And I remember when they launched

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Speaker 1: the prices were pretty solid and I was like, oh man,

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Speaker 1: that could make sense as an investment stamp from an

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Speaker 1: investment standpoint, but then at prices continue to go up

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Speaker 1: on those eighty US over the years, I starting to

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Speaker 1: imagine what they cost now they started gaining steam. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I can't wait to tackle that question a little

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Speaker 1: bit because aid to use or something near and dear

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Speaker 1: to my heart, especially as we need more housing supply

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Speaker 1: in this country. Totally. But you have a frugler cheap

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Speaker 1: you wanted to start off with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, So is it frugal or cheap to

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Speaker 2: transplant seedlings little plants that you might see on the

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Speaker 2: side of the road, maybe from public lands.

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Speaker 1: What do you think are these marijuana plants? Matt, Because

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Speaker 1: I don't okay, don't want you to be trafficking in illicit activity.

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Speaker 2: Legal in some states, but is it federally still still federally?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: What kind of weird time do we live in that

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Speaker 2: you kind of have to like it's like this in

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Speaker 2: between it's like the it's like you're a limbo, you know,

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Speaker 2: and the states have like you're a purgatory. You're in

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Speaker 2: heaven or not hell? Like well, like where do you

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Speaker 2: end up landing here?

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Speaker 1: The federal government is essentially saying states, we're just going

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Speaker 1: to close our eyes, let you do what you want

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Speaker 1: to do. And then but then those small businesses have

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Speaker 1: to deal with the fact that banks don't. But now

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Speaker 1: we're getting off on a tangent y.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so in case as far as we'll get

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Speaker 2: into yeah, marijuana right policy, which.

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Speaker 1: Could change, but okay, okay, So tell me more about

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Speaker 1: what you're doing, and so like the nature of your

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Speaker 1: indekay so.

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Speaker 2: Specifically, so near a house, there is a quote unquote trail.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people will.

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Speaker 2: Walk, run you run on it, run on it a

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Speaker 2: good bit. A lot of folks will bike on it.

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Speaker 2: I bike on it to.

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Speaker 1: Our little studio here, our office.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of the property adjoining or like right

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Speaker 2: next to that trail is public land, like it's right

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Speaker 2: of way property. And I don't know, every few months,

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Speaker 2: you see the city folks will come by and they've

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Speaker 2: got their truck and they're hey, I hate it because

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Speaker 2: they're always they always park up on the actual path

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Speaker 2: and they block in. I'm like, hey, man, there's people

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Speaker 2: who want to run, you know, and bike, but I

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Speaker 2: guess it's better than out in.

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Speaker 1: The road and whatever. It's no other place for the part.

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Speaker 2: Not gonna complain, I guess. But they just pull out

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Speaker 2: the weedy deers, the mowers and they're just like chopping

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Speaker 2: it down. But what if you see a plant and

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Speaker 2: you're like, wait a minute, I want that in my yard.

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Speaker 2: Do you think it's okay to This is different than

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Speaker 2: like pulling something out of somebody else's yard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.

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Speaker 2: This kind of reminds me of like me, I used

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Speaker 2: to pick a fig off of a local a nearby,

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Speaker 2: because that's wise, they fell on the ground with the waist. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: an ultralocal scenario here. No, I would eat a fig

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Speaker 2: on my lunch break, as I would walk around the block,

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Speaker 2: and I would only pick off one, but it seemed

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Speaker 2: like they're totally going to waste in a similar way.

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Speaker 2: That's how I at least see some of these seedlings. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: what do you think?

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the legal ramifications can or would be.

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Speaker 1: I just can't imagine one. Anybody's gonna care if they

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Speaker 1: see you doing it legally.

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Speaker 2: This isn't a legal question. This is a do you

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Speaker 2: think it's frugal or cheap?

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say proogole, I'm gonna say it's fine. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't feel bad about it if I don't do it,

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Speaker 1: because I don't care about like interesting plants the way

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Speaker 1: you do.

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Speaker 2: But well, that's the thing. So it's starting to cool down.

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Speaker 2: The temperatures are dropping, and this is planting season, Like

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Speaker 2: if you are into gardening getting plants in your yard,

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Speaker 2: it's not as hot, so it's easier on the plants,

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Speaker 2: like the roots. I think they overwinter, they get established

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Speaker 2: that way. Come spring, these things are ready to go. Man,

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Speaker 2: you know, but when it comes to purchasing plants, they

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Speaker 2: could be expensive. Some of the ones that Kate's looking at,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, how much does that cost for a

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Speaker 2: five gallon?

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of money?

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Speaker 2: Like can we not just continue to like find some

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Speaker 2: of these cool plants on the side of the road here,

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Speaker 2: And here's one of my arguments. I'm glad you think

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Speaker 2: it's frugal, first of all, But secondly, you know I'm

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Speaker 2: doing it anyway.

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Speaker 1: I guess even if I was, like, whoa bro also

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Speaker 1: do it.

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Speaker 2: One of the reasons is because most people, like I'm

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Speaker 2: not pulling up green giants right like that, plants that

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Speaker 2: most people are looking for, like these are quote unquote

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Speaker 2: native species native plants, which most people call weeds, which

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Speaker 2: is why they're just whacked down. I or in Kate

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Speaker 2: in particular, tends to like these native plants because they're

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Speaker 2: more interesting looking, like they're just cool looking. So it

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Speaker 2: provides a nice variety in your garden. You're able to

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Speaker 2: maintain some of the some of the local flora. Is

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Speaker 2: that it, yeah, the local plants. But then also it's

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Speaker 2: a huge money saver if we're able to be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: let's just pop that over into the yard, get that

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Speaker 2: going to when otherwise it would just either get sprayed

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Speaker 2: with round up or get weeded down to you know,

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Speaker 2: not existing anymore.

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Speaker 1: You're saving one of these poor little plants.

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Speaker 2: From I'm not only saving myselfh money, but I am

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Speaker 2: preserving the local plant scene.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you would call what you call it,

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Speaker 1: like captain planet, but for your neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for the different varieties of plants. Okay, you know

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Speaker 2: it's not the typical plants that you're picking up at

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Speaker 2: home depot. So there are, by the way, there are

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Speaker 2: local nurseries that special eyes in native plants.

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Speaker 1: But they're they're few and far between them. Those probably

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Speaker 1: costs even more because they there is like there there

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Speaker 1: aren't as many of those they're taking care of verseries

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Speaker 1: in existence. Ryeah, that's true. Okay, So I think it's plants, man,

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Speaker 1: go for it and for it. Related I'm curious to

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Speaker 1: see if some listeners disagree, if they send you an

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Speaker 1: email and they're.

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Speaker 2: Like, I would love to know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, their their their thoughts.

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Speaker 2: On a related note, what would you do if you

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Speaker 2: knew of a local florist that was doing something similar

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Speaker 2: more so maybe like clipping taking clippings and then putting

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Speaker 2: them in uh bouquets, selling them at local coffee shops.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps, and the free flowers stuff like that. I think

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Speaker 1: making money on it feels different than planning it on

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Speaker 1: your own yard. I agree.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a conversation Kate and I've had because

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Speaker 2: of the fact that it's more of a business. It

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Speaker 2: feels like you're taking a public good and then making

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Speaker 2: a profit off of it, as opposed to I guess

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Speaker 2: the way I'm looking at it's like sort of like

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Speaker 2: you're saying more of a preservation of the thing. But

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Speaker 2: uh yeah, I'm not gonna put anybody on a blaster.

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Speaker 1: But that's not that's something that you know who you are,

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Speaker 1: that's something that I have noticed. Nice, all right, good times.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's let's move on. If you have a

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Speaker 1: money question, we'd love to hear from you, go to

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Speaker 1: how to money dot com, slash ask, or just record

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Speaker 1: your question on the Voicemato app of your phone. Email

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Speaker 1: it over to us. Hopefully we can take it next

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Speaker 1: week on the show. Matt, let's get to a question. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about HSA's health, save the accounts. We haven't

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Speaker 1: really covered that in a bit.

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Speaker 4: Hello, Joel and Matt. This is David from Harrisonburg, Virginia.

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Speaker 4: Recently started listening to the show and it's been super helpful,

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Speaker 4: so thank you. I have two questions. I have an

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Speaker 4: employer sponsored HSA plan through Health Equity. They have some

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Speaker 4: higher fees and maybe not quite the funds that I

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Speaker 4: would like to invest in. They don't have the greatest

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Speaker 4: selection of ETF so I was wondering if it would

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Speaker 4: make sense to maybe do an account through Fidelity and

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Speaker 4: transfer those HSA dollars into Fidelity every month to get

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Speaker 4: some better fund options. I recently started maxing out our

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Speaker 4: family HSA plan last year, so the account is growing

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Speaker 4: quickly and just want to make sure I'm doing the

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Speaker 4: best version of that. My other question is on HIL

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Speaker 4: savings account. I am currently with ALLY and I'm getting

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Speaker 4: three point five percent APY, but I'm seeing c IT

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Speaker 4: banks rates are at like four percent APY right now,

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Speaker 4: and I do have about two and twenty k in

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Speaker 4: there due to selling a rental home last month. Probably

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Speaker 4: won't be there long term, but I was wondering if

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Speaker 4: it's worth the switch to a better API savings rate

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Speaker 4: in the long run. Would love your thoughts.

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Speaker 1: Thank you all.

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Speaker 2: Right, David, Thank you for being a part of the

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Speaker 2: HTM nation.

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Speaker 1: Just kidding the we're grafting you or the family. We're

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Speaker 1: not gonna go to a nation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go with family or sounds a little too brash.

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Speaker 1: Oh oh, I know.

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Speaker 2: I was making a joke of the fact that we

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Speaker 2: said that a few weeks ago. I don't think it

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Speaker 2: took and I'm not very interested in propagating. Oh that's

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Speaker 2: there's another point term I like. So you said grafting,

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Speaker 2: I said propagate. Now, David, thank you for being a

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Speaker 2: hod of Money listener. We will get to to your

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Speaker 2: savings account question, but first let's tackle the HSA, the

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Speaker 2: health savings account, and I think this. I think there

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Speaker 2: are more folks out there who might have this question

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Speaker 2: than we're hearing about. Because there are a slew of

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Speaker 2: different HSA providers, and not all of them are created.

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Speaker 1: Equal HSA providers.

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Speaker 2: They often offer limited or pretty crummy aka expensive investment options.

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Speaker 2: So trying to get your health savings account dollars over

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Speaker 2: to Fidelity, I like it, man.

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Speaker 1: I think that points to the fact that.

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Speaker 2: You're thinking like you're thinking next level when it comes

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Speaker 2: to what it is that you can do with your

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Speaker 2: health savings account.

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Speaker 1: Not just your streets ahead as some might say. Not

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Speaker 1: some stuff from the show community. You remember that wait

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Speaker 1: streets ahead instead of like two steps out of the game,

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Speaker 1: your streets ahead? Oh I miss that? What's season? Kids said?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Okay, A lot of folks think of HSA's as how

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Speaker 2: they pay for medical expenses. But of course you're thinking

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Speaker 2: next level. You're not spending those dollars. You are investing

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Speaker 2: those dollars as well.

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Speaker 1: And there are other.

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Speaker 2: Solid options, but Fidelity it remains the best, I think

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Speaker 2: for many reasons. By the way, so here's a stat

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Speaker 2: only eighteen percent of people actually invest inside of their HSA,

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Speaker 2: So you are in the minority to think of your

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Speaker 2: health savings account as a retirement account.

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Speaker 1: And some people can't because they use it as a

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Speaker 1: way to pay for current health Care Act, which.

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Speaker 2: I totally expenses, that's how it was originally created.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you can get past that and have

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Speaker 1: enough savings to pay for current your health care expenses

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Speaker 1: out of money that you have on hand, and you

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Speaker 1: can invest those HSA dollars, it's just it becomes a

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Speaker 1: super powerful retirement account that most people don't see as

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Speaker 1: a powerful retirement account, and we want to kind of

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Speaker 1: change that narrative, right, and David is buying into that,

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Speaker 1: which I think is really really cool. So yeah, HSA

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Speaker 1: incredible account to grow tax free wealth if you are

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Speaker 1: so inclined, and if you're intentional in the fewer fees

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Speaker 1: that you're paying, that means like the more your money

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Speaker 1: is working for you, which is part of the reason, Matt,

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Speaker 1: you and I mostly dislike fees.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: We want people to go away from banks to charge

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Speaker 1: high fees like the big banks, which we'll get to

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Speaker 1: in just a second, but especially given like the HSA

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Speaker 1: contribution limits and how there are more fee heavy providers

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Speaker 1: in the HSA world than there are in almost any

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Speaker 1: other investing accounts that you could participate in. It can

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Speaker 1: have even more I think of an impact on the

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Speaker 1: ability of those dollars to compound. So transferring your HSA

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Speaker 1: money it's helping you to avoid potential nasty fees. There

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Speaker 1: might be like a monthly or a quarterly fee or

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Speaker 1: something like that that your HSA provider charges. And because

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Speaker 1: you're putting, you know, a few thousand dollars, not like

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Speaker 1: twenty thousand dollars into this, they have like an outsize,

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Speaker 1: like I said, outside impact, So and then going somewhere

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Speaker 1: else too might give you not just fewer fees, but

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Speaker 1: also better low cost investment choices. So you're gonna want

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Speaker 1: to initiate what's called a trustee to trustee transfer in

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Speaker 1: order to get those dollars from your current HSA provider

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Speaker 1: over to fidelity. It's pretty easy. And the other thing is,

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Speaker 1: which I think most people don't realize, Matt, you can

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Speaker 1: do this as often as you'd like, no limit, So

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Speaker 1: you could say, oh, I'm gonna do this every couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks instead of doing it once a year or

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Speaker 1: something like that if you're one of those hyper optimizers

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Speaker 1: who wants to get that money into that new ahsay

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Speaker 1: as quickly as humanly possible.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, it makes me think of a few months ago.

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Speaker 2: I was looking to move some money over to a

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Speaker 2: donor advised fund Joel, and I thought, you know who

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Speaker 2: makes it easy to do to do that kind of thing, Robinhood.

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Speaker 2: So I hopped over to robin Hood because I remember

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Speaker 2: it specifically. This is I guess last year, a couple

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Speaker 2: of years ago, doing that with some crypto they had

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Speaker 2: recently linked and said, hey, you can instantly transfer over.

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Speaker 1: I hurd on that too, and I appreciate that. It

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Speaker 1: was awesome. The link between robin Hood and Daffy is

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Speaker 1: strong though. It's it is, it.

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Speaker 2: Is, and so I was I incorrectly assumed that the

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Speaker 2: same was true of other assets. Sadly it is not

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Speaker 2: the case. It is a one hundred dollars A cats

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Speaker 2: the A Cat's transfer, which is dude, it's such. It's

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Speaker 2: so frustrating because so the A, I don't know, you

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Speaker 2: even know what it stands for the whole A Cat's thing,

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Speaker 2: but that the first letter the A stands for automated,

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Speaker 2: which means, wait a minute, it seems like this is

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Speaker 2: something that is automatic, and so you should not be

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Speaker 2: charging me one hundred dollars to make a transfer.

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Speaker 1: So all that being said, be like charging one hundred

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Speaker 1: bucks for an Ah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was so dumb and I was like, Nope,

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Speaker 2: not going to do that, So I just hopped over

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Speaker 2: to Vanguard and transferred funds ETF from over there instead.

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Speaker 2: But what I'm pointing to is the fact that one

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Speaker 2: hundred dollars, let's say, for you, like it could be

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Speaker 2: something it could be like the equivalent of one percent.

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Speaker 2: But if it's every time that you make a transfer,

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Speaker 2: like let's say on a monthly basis, well, all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden, instead of being a one percent overall fee

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Speaker 2: that you're eating, it quickly ramps up the more often

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Speaker 2: that you do it. And so this is an instance

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Speaker 2: where like sometimes.

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Speaker 1: We'll say, well, don't let the don't let the tail

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Speaker 1: wag the dog, but this.

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Speaker 2: Is an instance to where the fee actually has a

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Speaker 2: pretty significant impact on how much you're going to be

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Speaker 2: able to invest. So you want to know what that

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Speaker 2: fee amount is before you initiate this transfer.

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Speaker 1: If the outgoing transfer, like you says twenty bucks. Well,

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Speaker 1: it might be worth doing that once a year to

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Speaker 1: move many many thousands of dollars over, but it's probably

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Speaker 1: not worth doing that once a month to move many

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Speaker 1: hundreds of dollars. No, I wouldn't do it because that's

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Speaker 1: a much bigger percentage, right of the overall assets a

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Speaker 1: twenty bucks.

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Speaker 2: Given the maximums for family HSA contribution, I think I'd

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Speaker 2: be willing to do that a few times a year,

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Speaker 2: you know, But more than that it starts feeling expensive.

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Speaker 2: Less than that feels less optimized from an investing standpoint.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's why I would land it tough to

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Speaker 1: find that balance, but it's yeah, it's a shame. I

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Speaker 1: guess that there aren't better HSA options widely available if

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Speaker 1: you do have fidelity, although I think those because of

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Speaker 1: all the tax benefits the fees that are that many

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Speaker 1: of these HSA providers charge, Well, it's still worth contributing

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Speaker 1: to an HSA because the tax benefits are so stinking significant.

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Speaker 1: So don't avoid the AHSA because of those, but find

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Speaker 1: ways to minimize the destruction that those fees are doing

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Speaker 1: to your dollars. Sure, all right, let's talk about save

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Speaker 1: these accounts and David's question there, I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: some people are just way too dialed into interest rates

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Speaker 1: and kind of parsing the difference between banks and well,

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Speaker 1: this one's offering three and a half and this one's

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Speaker 1: offering three and a quarter, So I'm moving. We definitely

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Speaker 1: don't want people being with banking with the big banks

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Speaker 1: because they're getting paid point zero one percent. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter how high rates go. Like the big banks just

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Speaker 1: aren't budging. They're not going to pay anything reasonable on

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Speaker 1: your money.

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Speaker 2: So uh yeah, and point zero one is not an exaggeration. No,

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Speaker 2: it's like it's that's actually real, that's actually that's very accurate.

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Speaker 1: Like I looked up specifically some of those accounts. My

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Speaker 1: go is highest point oh five, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, specifically Bank of America. It's their Platinum Honors account

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Speaker 2: that goes up to point.

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Speaker 1: Zero four percent of man, which is like.

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Speaker 2: The dumbest thing. Platinum Honors, Like what is this? It's

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Speaker 2: like magnum cop in money or something like that. They're

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Speaker 2: trying to make it sound so special. Yeah that uh oh,

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Speaker 2: if you if you are Platinum Honors, you are among

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Speaker 2: the elite. And you are because you have to jump

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Speaker 2: through so many hoops. You have to have like a

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Speaker 2: ton of money with them and satisfy a bunch of

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Speaker 2: other requirements and oh yeah, yeah, you get four times

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Speaker 2: what the rest of the customers get. But it's still

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Speaker 2: only point zero four pick, it's.

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Speaker 1: Still one hundred x less than what's the best banks

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Speaker 1: that we like actually want to pay. So yeah, doing

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Speaker 1: business with the big banks you do at your own peril.

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Speaker 1: It's a complete waste of your time and you're not

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Speaker 1: maximizing the return that you can get on your savings.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, the gap between the big banks

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Speaker 1: and our favorite online banks is massive right as we're

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Speaker 1: outlining here. But the gap between a great online bank

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Speaker 1: and the very best one is a lot smaller. So

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Speaker 1: that is true rates that are changing all the time. Normally,

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Speaker 1: we just want you to do business with an online

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Speaker 1: bank that's in the top tier. But Matt, this question

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Speaker 1: is pointing out David says, hey, I got a lot

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Speaker 1: of cash on hand right now, and he's got so

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Speaker 1: much money in savings that if you, let's say, had

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Speaker 1: that cash shitting in a bank account for a whole

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Speaker 1: year and you got just an extra half a percent

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Speaker 1: of a return, we could be talking about four figures, right,

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Speaker 1: we could be talking about a lot of money. So

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Speaker 1: I think for people with ten thousand dollars in savings,

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Speaker 1: which is admirable, that's great. That's enough for most people.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there mistakes when it comes to interest.

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Speaker 1: You don't need to stress between three and three and

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Speaker 1: a half percent. But if you've got over six you know,

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Speaker 1: six figures, if you've got two hundred grand in savings, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you probably do want to sweat those details. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I see this being as like the impetus to get

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Speaker 2: him to consider moving to a slightly better bank and

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Speaker 2: then just trying it out and seeing if the services

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Speaker 2: that they offer are worth the additional quote unquote hassle, right,

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Speaker 2: because a lot of times once you get switched over,

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Speaker 2: there's no additional hassle. But all banks are, they're not

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Speaker 2: created equally, and they do offer different they all have

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Speaker 2: different strengths specifically, I.

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Speaker 1: Will I'm with you, David, I'm literally with ally as well.

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Speaker 2: And I know they don't pay the highest rate, but

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Speaker 2: I've been so happy with their customer service and the

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Speaker 2: different services the overall rate that they are willing to

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Speaker 2: pay that I have stuck with them over the years, so.

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Speaker 1: Free perks or the user interface can make up for

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Speaker 1: a site lower fee, like ALLY has the.

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Speaker 2: Pockets and the polished man.

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Speaker 1: It's so good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they got the non CDs, so that's that's something

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Speaker 2: to consider. But well, he mentioned c I T and

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Speaker 2: that is a great option. They certainly remain one of

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Speaker 2: our favorites. They consistently pay the absolute top tier rates.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think there's any harm in staying with ALLY.

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Speaker 2: If you've been like ultra happy with them, maybe maybe

438
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,320
Speaker 2: you do want to consider one of those one of

439
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 2: those CDs, one of the short term CDs until you

440
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,080
Speaker 2: know what it is that you want to do with

441
00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,960
Speaker 2: that cash from the sale of that rental property. You know,

442
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 2: six months to bump up a full percentage point in

443
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,479
Speaker 2: your return could certainly make sense. And then in addition

444
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 2: to that, one of the advantages that you are realizing

445
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,160
Speaker 2: is that you are able to protect that cash from

446
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,560
Speaker 2: potential interest rate declines. But be sure to check out

447
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,359
Speaker 2: Betterment as well. Their savings account has offered really good

448
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 2: rates recently, with higher rates for new customers in particular.

449
00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,119
Speaker 2: In addition to that, I would say, don't forget. And

450
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 2: it sounds like this is what you're doing. But don't

451
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,200
Speaker 2: forget that it sounds like you might have a tax bill.

452
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 2: Do given the fact that this the rental property, So

453
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 2: make sure you set that money aside and that this

454
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,360
Speaker 2: isn't something that you just blow through. But I don't

455
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,359
Speaker 2: think Dave is going to quickly burn through twour and

456
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:09,400
Speaker 2: twenty Cagel.

457
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: Doesn't sound like it. No, All right, Matt, We got

458
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,439
Speaker 1: more questions to get to, including what do you do

459
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,479
Speaker 1: when you have multiple workplace retirement accounts open to you?

460
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 1: Which one do you prioritize. We'll talk about that and

461
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 1: more right after this.

462
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 2: All right, buddy, we are back from the break. We're

463
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,360
Speaker 2: going to talk about the high cost of healthcare here

464
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,639
Speaker 2: in a minute, but before that, let's hear from a

465
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 2: listener now who is weighing some of the different menu

466
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,679
Speaker 2: options that she has before her when it comes to

467
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 2: where it is she should invest her retirement dollars.

468
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,199
Speaker 5: Him Att Angel, I'm Terry from northern California and I

469
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 5: have a question about tax advantage retirement accounts. It's some background.

470
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 5: I'm in money Gear seven. I've been working in the

471
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 5: public sector for about nineteen years. I expect it in

472
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,119
Speaker 5: my career there in another fifteen years or so, I

473
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 5: should have a pretty solid pension coming to me. Right now,

474
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 5: the plan is for the pension to be the bulk

475
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 5: of my retirement income, but I'll supplement that with Social

476
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 5: Security and personal savings. I'm also currently maxing out my

477
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 5: roth IRA, So getting to my actual question. Through my employer,

478
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,120
Speaker 5: I have access to a four or three B and

479
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 5: a four to fifty seven through Fidelity. I've been putting

480
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 5: money in the four h three B, but I'm wondering

481
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 5: if i should switch that to the four fifty seven.

482
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 5: I'm not sure what the advantage is for one or

483
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,640
Speaker 5: the other. Thanks for any advice.

484
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 1: Oh like this question, Matt and I love that Terry

485
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 1: is in money Gear number seven, just thanks to hear

486
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 1: from people who are very far along in their financial journey.

487
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 1: We try to offer advice for people who are all

488
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 1: along the spectrum there, but it's nice to see someone

489
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 1: have had a ton of success in the first couple

490
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,120
Speaker 1: of years, our first couple of decades really of being

491
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:48,639
Speaker 1: an investor.

492
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, Money Gear seven, that's like cruising altitude. Yeah, when

493
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 2: it comes to the money gear.

494
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,679
Speaker 1: Tons of choices, lots of the world's your oyster you

495
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,640
Speaker 1: may unbuckle and go to the bathroom. That's right. Yeah,

496
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,120
Speaker 1: it's nice that she has a pension too.

497
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 2: May even have a drink if you like this player

498
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 2: the Yeah, I.

499
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: Guess you're right. Yeah, you can pay that extra for

500
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 1: the drink. He used to be like on the house.

501
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 1: Not anymore, right, So.

502
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:06,159
Speaker 2: This isn't the seventies.

503
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 1: Last time I was on a Southwest flight, it was like,

504
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: what was a cocktail? Maybe ten dollars? Do I ever sports? No,

505
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: of course I don't for that. I don't even sports

506
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: for the nice seats. So but I do like to

507
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 1: if I get well. And sorry if I'm gonna liment

508
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 1: on this, but Southwest changing their boarding structure soon, I'm

509
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: gonna miss being able to get on, you know, in

510
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: that mid A group and still finding an exit row seat.

511
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 1: That's gonna be a bummer.

512
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 2: So now the trick is, and I've seen you do this,

513
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 2: is that when you're buried in B or at in

514
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 2: the C group, you just look to the middle seat

515
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 2: in the very front of the plane because those seats

516
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 2: are going to be taken by somebody. You can either

517
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 2: go to the very back and sit in the middle seats, right, Oh,

518
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 2: you take the middle seat. Oh man, we're giving away

519
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 2: our secrets. Well, the other thing that people do, you

520
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 2: immediately take the middle seat right there at the front

521
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 2: of the plane. Do you got plenty of leg room?

522
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: There's all these ways that people create put a menacing

523
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 1: look on their face or or chain cantort their body

524
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 1: structure to prevent you from taking the middle seat next

525
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: to them up front row. Oh I do that make

526
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: it look like I've got gas? I believe it.

527
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 2: I learned from you. I learned it from the best.

528
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 1: Last time I went on the plane, I mean I

529
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: saw a guy like slumped over both seats and then

530
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: on the other side of the aisle, the guy literally

531
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 1: had his leg up as he was reading a book

532
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: to just to create this sort of environment that says

533
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 1: you really don't want to sit here next to me.

534
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: You got to ask me, I think twice, yeah, And

535
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 1: I was like, that's okay. I'm going to run past

536
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 1: this because I think ei there's an next or real

537
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: seat there. But if there had been, I would have

538
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 1: sat in their lap just to mess with them.

539
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, why not?

540
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my style. All right, let's get to Terry's question. Uh,

541
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: Terry you're not resting on your laurels here, which is

542
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 1: good because you're like, hey, I'm crushing it, but I

543
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: want to do even more your max and the wrath

544
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: you want to save it invest even more, which is great.

545
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: And it makes me think of our conversation Matt with

546
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,959
Speaker 1: Dan Otter, which was episode eight fifty one. Dan is

547
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: doing the Lord's work when it comes to helping teach

548
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: three B why that's right? So org right, yeah, or

549
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: so if you were a teacher, it's a nonprofit and

550
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: you want to figure out what's going on with your

551
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 1: retirement accounts. The expert in that space is Dan, and

552
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: his website is a treasure trove of helpful information. So,

553
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: and one of the things he got to in that

554
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: conversation was just that intentional teachers can retire incredibly rich,

555
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: which is not something you typically think about with teachers,

556
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: but as a teacher, yes you can if you are

557
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: if you're thoughtful and so, yeah, your efforts in addition

558
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: to this pension are going to increase your options significantly

559
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 1: over time. Terry, you really might retire with more money

560
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: than people who were like big wig executives at companies

561
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: and stuff like that because of your dedication and the

562
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 1: high percentage of your income that you're saving investment. True,

563
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: that's true.

564
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cool that Terry has got access to both

565
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 2: of these accounts, the four to three B the four

566
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 2: to fifty seven. You could actually contribute to both if

567
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 2: you wanted to save, if you wanted to invest even more,

568
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: which is a pretty cool perk that some super savers

569
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 2: take advantage of, and that would allow you to sock

570
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: away almost fifty thousand dollars in a year in addition

571
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: to your other investments, like you're your roth Ira, which

572
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 2: would be a ton of money. But I would say

573
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: the first one to pick is the one that offers

574
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 2: a match, which is most likely going to be your

575
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: four to three B.

576
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: Four to three b's act more like a four to

577
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 1: one K.

578
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 2: And just in case folks that't know, we're never fans

579
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 2: of leaving money on the table. I'm gonna reach for everything,

580
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 2: even if it's a plant on the side of the road,

581
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 2: and I'm just like, I don't even know if I'm

582
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: allowed to take that, but it seems like it's seems

583
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 2: like it's a free plant, fair game. This is free

584
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 2: money that would be left on the table. Warry to

585
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 2: not take advantage of that match if that is something

586
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 2: that is offered to you. So that was the first

587
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: thing I would do is make sure that you are

588
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 2: aware of that. But if you don't have one of those,

589
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: then I would say, what is it past? Uh, don't stop, pasco,

590
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: I haven't played monopoly in forever?

591
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: What's the term? Yeah, don't stop or collect two hundred dollars?

592
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: I don't know, don't play? Yeah, it's been a minute. Anyway,

593
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: Well you if you go to jail, it's yeah, you

594
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: don't you pa, but you don't collick the two hundred dollars?

595
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: What are you going to jail? There?

596
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 2: You go, yeah, do that thing and go straight to

597
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 2: the four to fifty seven.

598
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: Sure, So what you're saying is match first in the

599
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: four or three B, if you know, invests until you're

600
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: maxing that out, and then revert to the four to

601
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: fifty seven. And there's a reason that the four to

602
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: fifty seven B is the next ideal choice before you

603
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: sock more money into the four h three B. And

604
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: that's one because she said it's with Fidelity, which is

605
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: one of our favorite low cost companies. So if the

606
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 1: account is with a low cost brokerage that is like

607
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: two thumbs up extra plus and then you know, I

608
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: mean fees are going to essentially be non existent. You're

609
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: gonna have a lot of low cost investment choices. But

610
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: the other reason is because one major difference between the

611
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: two accounts, which is the early withdrawal penalty, and so

612
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: the four oh three B has one. The four to

613
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 1: fifty seven doesn't. Yeah, four to three B again more

614
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: like a four to one K. Four fifty seven feels

615
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: a bit more like a brokerage again, this kind of

616
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: like loosey goosey four h three B equivalent that doesn't

617
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: have some of the same draconian rules about early access

618
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: and so being able to take money out of that

619
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: account early without the IRS hassling you in any way

620
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 1: about those withdraws is a clutch feature. And with like

621
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: the insane effort that you're putting into investing for your future,

622
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: you really might choose to retire early like you want.

623
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: You might want this money before the age of fifty

624
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: nine and a half. And in the four to three

625
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: B and the four to one K, you're talking about

626
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: paying tax and a ten percent penalty. But in the

627
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: four to fifty seven you are avoiding that percent penalty.

628
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: You still pay the tax, and so you want to

629
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: be wise with how much you're taking out in the

630
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: given year. But yeah, being able to tap those funds

631
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: without the penalty before the age of fifty nine and

632
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: a half is pretty sick. It's amazing.

633
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's another cool feature as well that the four

634
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 2: to fifty seven has, which is the three year like

635
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: double feature. I don't it doesn't really have a name,

636
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 2: but it should totally give it a brand, cool brand, Yeah,

637
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: the three year double. But it makes it even more

638
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 2: appealing than the four to three B. And the way

639
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 2: it works is that if you haven't maxed out contributions

640
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: over the prior three years, you can contribute.

641
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: Quite a bit more than the.

642
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 2: Twenty three dollars max that the account currently offers. And

643
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: this is given though, that you are in the three

644
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 2: years preceding retirement age. And so basically, if you like

645
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: under allocated contributions to the four to fifty seven B

646
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 2: over the past few years, you're getting closer to retirement

647
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: and you are keen to toss gobs of cash and

648
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: you can supercharge the amount that you sawck in there

649
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: beyond the standard catchup contribution that most retirement accounts allow for.

650
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: So it's got the it's got the typical ketchup contributions

651
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: that the the four to three B also has, but

652
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 2: beyond that, it's got this uh, this little it feels

653
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 2: like a boost like what were the racing games where

654
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: you hit the nas Was this that what it's called?

655
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: Like the gas It's like the mushroom on Mario Kart. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

656
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: okay exactly.

657
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, like the mushrooms. There's three of them,

658
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 2: so you got you got three year years to make

659
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: this thing out of three years.

660
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: Although I was we look into the details because there's

661
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: the ketchup contribution and then there's also the three year

662
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: rule that specifically applies to four to fifty sevens and

663
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: you can't do both, but you could take advantage of

664
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: whichever one is larger for you. You can't do them

665
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: both in the same year. Yeah, exactly, so know that.

666
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: But that's what one of the other things that makes

667
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: the four to fifty seven be a pretty cool account

668
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: that is again different from some of the accounts that

669
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,959
Speaker 1: most people have access to. And yeah, being able to

670
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: utilize both means you can man toss in a lot

671
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: more pre tax dollars, reducing your AGI, allowing you to

672
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: pay a low tax bill now, giving a lot of

673
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: flexibility into the future as well. So yeah, doing kind

674
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: of the both and approach that we just outlined, I

675
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: think is going to lead to your ability to save

676
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: and invest a lot of money and retire early if

677
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: that's your desire. You're contributing to the roth ra on

678
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: top of that. And so I guess just the last

679
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: piece of advice, Matt, which we try to always incorporate

680
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: as we're you know, thinking about the how much you

681
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: can stick away into retirement accounts, and some people are like, oh, man,

682
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: that's great. I make one hundred grand, Let me invest

683
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: sixty five thousand dollars of that this year. Wait, am

684
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: I going to be eating like essentially rice and beans

685
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: and toast all the time. Just make sure you're not

686
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: forgetting to enjoy your life while you're simultaneously saving for

687
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: the future. That's true. It is easy to think, especially

688
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: as you get nerdy into this man, all these levers

689
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: I can pull, and some of them are well worth pulling,

690
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: and you just want to make sure you don't pull

691
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: so many levers that you are feeling destitute in the

692
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: here and now, as you say, for that future that

693
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: you so look forward to. Absolutely. Yeah.

694
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: For all the folks out there though, who have access

695
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: to a four to fifty seven. So one of the

696
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 2: reasons we don't talk about it as much is because

697
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 2: it's it is limited to government workers, to police officers,

698
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 2: to firefighters. But like, man, if you are if you

699
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: fall within that category, I would most definitely be looking

700
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: to the four to fifty seven.

701
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: Because of the flexibility. It's so great that there is.

702
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes it gets misconstrued as well, that like, oh, well,

703
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be an early retiree.

704
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: Well it's not.

705
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: That makes it sound like you're going to bag work

706
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 2: altogether as opposed to finding something else that you might

707
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 2: want to move towards. Right, it's not just about abandoning something,

708
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,239
Speaker 2: but it's about being excited about what you might be

709
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: moving into. And quote unquote retirement doesn't have to mean

710
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 2: you not working. It simply means you leaving that employer.

711
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: That's right, so you can you can draw them those

712
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 2: funds quote unquote early while you're building a business or something.

713
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

714
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you don't have to be older in order

715
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 2: to pull that off as well. So it's why it

716
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: makes it very attractive, especially for quote unquote early retirees.

717
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: But Joel, let's.

718
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: Hear from another listener who's looking to take on the

719
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: best social Security strategy. He's looking to stretch those dollars

720
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: into some of those later years.

721
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 3: Hi, Joel and Matt, this is Ron from Columbus, Ohio.

722
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 3: I've been a follow up your podcast for many years

723
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 3: and appreciate the solid financial guidance that the two of

724
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 3: you provide. My question is in regards to when to

725
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 3: take Social Security. My wife and I are in our

726
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 3: early sixties and well into money gear number seven. My

727
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: wife is a retired teacher and I am semi retired

728
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 3: but not yet drawing off of my retirement portfolio. I've

729
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 3: long held to the opinion that delaying taking Social Security

730
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 3: until age sixty seven or even seventy was the best

731
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 3: option in order to maximize the monthly payout. However, I've

732
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 3: recently questioned that for a couple of reasons. First, if

733
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 3: I start drawing now, even at a reduced rate, I

734
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 3: am able to both draw from Social Security for more

735
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 3: years and avoid drawing funds from my IRA. Thus, allowing

736
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 3: my IRA funds to continue to grow while also collecting

737
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 3: Social Security payments for more years. Second, and possibly more importantly,

738
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 3: with the elimination of the government pension offset, my wife

739
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 3: could start drawing social Security as a spouse at fifty

740
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 3: percent of my rate in the next year. Add to

741
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 3: that the fact that with the political pendulum, who knows

742
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 3: whether her benefit will always be available, and the fact

743
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: that Social Security benefits in general could be reduced in

744
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 3: the future to protect it from going bankrupt. Given those factors,

745
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 3: I'm strongly considering taking social Security earlier than I had

746
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 3: previously planned. I'm curious to hear your thoughts. Thanks, and

747
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 3: keep up the great work, Matt.

748
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: First off, I just want to say congrats Torana being

749
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: semi retired in his sixties. I think it's a great

750
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: way to live. Like, I think that's what I want

751
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: to be in my sixties, Like I want to be

752
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: working some but not.

753
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 2: I want to be semi retired now.

754
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

755
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 2: I mean, but we need to keep Workingtrol. We need

756
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 2: to keep getting the content out there for all the

757
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 2: how the money listeners.

758
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, And there's something beautiful about being able

759
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: to produce this show to help people. That's the whole

760
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: the whole goal behind it, right, is to really help

761
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: people maximize the dollars that are put in their hands

762
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: to their ability to build wealth and their ability to

763
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: live their best.

764
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: Life and plus rounds like Matt, get off your butt.

765
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: He's like, dude, I put in twenty more years than U.

766
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, take like, talk to me in two decades.

767
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, back off. The cool thing though

768
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: about that is you get to keep some income heading

769
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: your way. He's still working some You get to enjoy

770
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: the benefits that work can provide. I think that relational

771
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: aspect is important, having you know, coworkers and a missional

772
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: aspect to your life, and especially if work does provide

773
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: that for you, being able to work part time can

774
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: be the best of both worlds for people in the

775
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: phase of their lives. Not everyone has that option, but

776
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 1: Ron certainly does because of so much the hard work

777
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: that he's put in over the years. And so yeah,

778
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: I just think for a lot of people maybe that

779
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: should be on their radar is trying to go from

780
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: not fifty hours a week to zero, but maybe this

781
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: kind of sliding scale downward where you're like I'm going

782
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: to work. You know, I was working forty to fifty hours.

783
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: Now I'm working like twenty to thirty, and then maybe

784
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm working ten to twenty and you

785
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,240
Speaker 1: kind of slowly back off instead of like going from

786
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: all in to all out.

787
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, going from fifty to zero, like you're slamming on

788
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 2: the brakes. I like the coast, which is why I mean,

789
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 2: I feel like that's why the coast fire. So it

790
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 2: works on so many different levels, but for Run.

791
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: It also bodes well for Ron. By the way, bringing

792
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: in some money means okay, cool, I can let those

793
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 1: assets continue to grow exactly.

794
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 2: We'll probably find some way to get to that here.

795
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 2: But his specific question, though, it's tough because there are

796
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: a lot of different moving parts. Because like, yes, taking

797
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 2: Social Security earlier is going to mean that you can

798
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 2: allow your investment portfolio to keep growing.

799
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: That's great.

800
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 2: But you could also take the opposite approach, and this

801
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 2: is where we like to talk through all the different

802
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 2: scenarios here. Ron, you could begin to tap some of

803
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 2: your investments for income now in order to guarantee yourself

804
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 2: a higher Social Security payment down the line. What you

805
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 2: decide comes down at least in part to your goals

806
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: and to your risk tolerance. But what we have to

807
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 2: recognize here is that you'd be selling either ats or

808
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 2: nearish all time highs in the market, which is pretty

809
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 2: attractive from a timing standpoint, from a do I need

810
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: this money, whichs like, well, I don't know if I

811
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: need it, but it is at all time highs. And

812
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 2: then by drawing on that portfolio some that would get

813
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 2: to yourself a check that is eight percent larger each

814
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 2: and every year going forward, which is guaranteed.

815
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

816
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 2: Right, So this is I don't know, This is kind

817
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 2: of contrary to what it is that Ron was proposing,

818
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 2: but I think it's worth considering.

819
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: It is worth considering, I agree, because you got to

820
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: think there's trade offs either way, and one trade off

821
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 1: is I get the check now, I let my investments grow,

822
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: and the reverse is true, which is what you're pointing into,

823
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 1: is where if you tap investments now, you're letting your

824
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: social Security check grow. And there's a reality that one

825
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: way or the other, and it's really hard to decipher

826
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: which one is going to be the most effective way forward,

827
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: and so much of that is like, well, what's the

828
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: marketing invested in?

829
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 3: Right?

830
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: And and yeah, how is the market going to perform

831
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: compared to the guaranteed return I get by delaying social Security?

832
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 1: And I think part of this comes down to as well,

833
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: like how good a shape are you in? Ron are

834
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: you like still, are you going on runs? Are you

835
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 1: doing kayaking trips? Like what kind of physical shape?

836
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 3: Yeah?

837
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, not financial shape?

838
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: Right? If you no financial shape, he's doing great. So

839
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: now we're talking about well, yeah, what sort of longevity

840
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: do you expect for yourself? That's obviously a tough question.

841
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: We could all get hit by a bus tomorrow. Like

842
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: there's just I almost got hit by a taxi by

843
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: a cap a bright orange.

844
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: Taxi makes it sound like we live in New York

845
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 2: City or something like that, which we don't.

846
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: But you got to watch.

847
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: Out for those when you're out there running.

848
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: Buddy, I could tell the guy I felt bad, but

849
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: I felt bad too because he almost held me, so

850
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: almost the end of my life.

851
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you wear were you wearing like all beige

852
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 2: where you like blended bunding into the sidewalk or anything,

853
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 2: So Emily's gonna start making you run with like a

854
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 2: neon green neon green vest I don't know, maybe she's like,

855
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 2: because at this point, she's like, Dude, the life insurance

856
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 2: not worth it. I just want you to do all

857
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 2: the things that you've promised to do for the next.

858
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 1: Life insurance might be more valuable than me sticking around.

859
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: But true, true, those are the kind of things that

860
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: happen though, And you're like, I mean, I did not

861
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: see my life flash before my eyes or anything like that,

862
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: but it does remind you that we can roll up

863
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: under the hood. It wasn't like this. I've done that

864
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: before on my bike, gotten hit by when I was

865
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: on my bike in downtown.

866
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: Buddy, I don't know. I'm starting to think this might

867
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: be a you problem, not everybody else problem.

868
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, the fact that this is multiple No, he totally

869
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: blew through that stop sign that was okay, not cool.

870
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 2: That's his fault. Then, yeah, sorry to victim.

871
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: Shame that. What's the term? Is that? The term? I think? So,

872
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: don't blame me. It's not your fault, it's not my fault. Nope, okay.

873
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 1: So but and it's obviously tough to know this, but

874
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: if you're likely, if you think you're likely to live

875
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: into your late eighties or nineties, right, the effect of

876
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: waiting to draw on social Security, it becomes more pronounced.

877
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: And so, you know, one tactic that often can make

878
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,439
Speaker 1: sense is for the lower earning spouse to take social

879
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 1: Security early, the higher earning spouse to wait until later,

880
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: right sixty seven or ideally even seventy, like you mentioned Ron.

881
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: And part of the reason this strategy makes so much

882
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: sense is because it also guarantees a higher survival benefit

883
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: for this surviving spouse, right who who continues to live

884
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: after the other partner passes away. So yeah, it's just

885
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: kind of like general social security strategy claiming strategy that

886
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 1: people take. And there's a reason it makes sense if

887
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: you're thoughtful of about it, that taking that approach can

888
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: can really maximize benefits. It means, hey, we get in

889
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: one check at least claiming that early, we're waiting for

890
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: quite a while to claim the other one, and you're

891
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: kind of covering both bases. Yeah, yeah, I do think so.

892
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: Something he didn't mention was whether or not there are

893
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 2: kids in the picture and whether or not we're talking

894
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 2: about passing well down from a legacy standpoint, because guess what,

895
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 2: I guess what, you can't pass down.

896
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: To your kids once you dies. Social Security, and so

897
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: that like that's the check.

898
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 2: In the on the side of like, hey, maybe it's

899
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: worth taking social Security now letting your portfolio cook a

900
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,240
Speaker 2: little bit longer, because guess because you can pass four one.

901
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: K's, roth IRA's, these are all things that you can

902
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: pass down to your kids.

903
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, certainly not necessary or I don't think

904
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 2: it should be expected in most cases. But that's something else.

905
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: If you've got more than enough on hand and you're

906
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 2: just looking to try to find a way to maximize

907
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 2: what it is to maximize returns essentially and to figure

908
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: out what it is that you're looking to pass on,

909
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 2: I think that's a consideration. Yeah, as well, making of

910
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 2: maximizing returns. I think that's one of the reasons too

911
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: that people decide to punt into delay taking Social Security

912
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 2: because they're looking for those guaranteed chill returns as opposed

913
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: to staying invested in the S and P where there's

914
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 2: a whole lot more volatility, because that's you know, that's

915
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 2: how you're going to maximize your return.

916
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: There's like historical average returns, and then there's like what

917
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 1: are the returns I'm actually going to see and the

918
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 1: risk free nature of those social Security returns of waiting

919
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: for those that's ap peoint.

920
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's not this predictable or straightforward. But

921
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 2: if you look at the past couple of years and

922
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 2: you're like, all right, we're looking at twenty five percent years,

923
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 2: if you're looking at okay, what should the next two

924
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 2: years look like? You know, I'm not going to do

925
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 2: the math in my head, but it would take some

926
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: sour years to get us to a ten percent eight

927
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 2: to ten per annualized return on average. So that's again

928
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 2: going back to sort of the timing element of possibly

929
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 2: pulling some that money out of the market.

930
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: Now, let's cover the Social Security Fairness Act, which Ron

931
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: alluded to, and this is kind of a sort of

932
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 1: niche thing, but it's going to really help millions of

933
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: retirees because, as a teacher who was not covered by

934
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: Social Security in her job, your wife would have had

935
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: her social Security benefits reduced because of that pension offset

936
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: that you mentioned. That is no longer the case thanks

937
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: to legislation earlier this year which kind of uncomplicated social

938
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: Security for people in that camp and also means they're

939
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: going to receive larger checks and so just a big

940
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: chunk of teachers and government workers are now going to

941
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: receive bigger Social Security checks than they previously would have

942
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: received because of the way the law existed prior to

943
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: this year. And this was also retroactive to twenty twenty four,

944
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: so some people were going to get back pay in

945
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 1: some of those benefits, and this is I think good

946
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: news for those people. Obviously, the specifics can vary wildly though,

947
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,760
Speaker 1: so especially with these changes, it's just one more really

948
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 1: crucial factor to think through. I would suggest paying fifty

949
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: bucks for maximize my Social Security. It's a website you

950
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: can go to. We'll link to it in the show

951
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: notes on how to money dot com. But you're gonna get,

952
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: you know, specifics in the differences in annual and lifetime

953
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: benefit for different claiming strategies that you could take, and

954
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: they show data on you mentioned future benefit cuts. How

955
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: is that going to impact my claiming strategy? And you know,

956
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 1: I think there's a solid reason to consider claiming sooner.

957
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: There's just a lot of evidence in that direction, but

958
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: there's also other evidence saying that waiting could be your

959
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: best bet. It's so it's so hard to tell you

960
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: ron without sitting down and looking at everything, and that's

961
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,760
Speaker 1: actually what this software is kind of has the ability

962
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: to do. So I would say fifty bucks to have

963
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 1: your data specifically laid out and easy to understand format,

964
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: helping you make a choice with all the different inputs

965
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: kind of on a screen right in front of you.

966
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: I think makes a lot of sense because that fifty

967
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,280
Speaker 1: bucks as well spent, could really be the difference between

968
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of dollars in your pocket over you know,

969
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 1: the decades to come. That's right.

970
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 2: And one of the reasons we're mentioning the site too

971
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 2: is it's just well run. This isn't a government website.

972
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 2: It's a site that was started by a professor of

973
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 2: economics from Boston University, which is a part of the

974
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 2: reason why I think it works so well.

975
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: And yeah, there's such a crummy calculators that are free

976
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 1: that you can access or they're they're decent for really

977
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: chill scenarios, but a decent because they're free.

978
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 2: But this is like a great Yeah, this is a

979
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 2: great resource that's totally worth checking out.

980
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: For saying frugal or cheap, it's frugal to drop the

981
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: fifty bucks here given what ron's the question Ron's asking

982
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 1: and what's going on with his particulars.

983
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 2: Absolutely, but buddy, we got more to get to. We're

984
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 2: going to hear from a listener who is asking about

985
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 2: some of the different affordable options at least on the

986
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 2: healthcare front.

987
00:43:50,120 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: We'll get to that and more right after this. Matt's

988
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: time to get to the Facebook question of the week.

989
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: This one comes from Gael and she says, preparing to

990
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 1: retire in two years and I want to get more income.

991
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: I have a lot of equity in my house. I'm

992
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: thinking of a helock loan for a small amount to

993
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: build out in a tou. The helock payments would be

994
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: made from the ADU the accessory dwelling unit income that

995
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: I would get and I estimate a five year or

996
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 1: less payback. What are your thoughts?

997
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 2: All right? First of all, I like how Gayel spills

998
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 2: her name ga e l. Yeah that's a rad spelling,

999
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 2: but execonly it's got to be like Celtic and roots, right. Well,

1000
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 2: are you thinking like Gaelic, like a Gaelic Ale?

1001
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.

1002
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: I think it might just be Gaale And she was thinking,

1003
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 2: what's a different way of spelling it. I don't know.

1004
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 2: I think it's cool that she is looking to retire

1005
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: in two years and then she's looking.

1006
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: Ahead a little bit.

1007
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: She's trying to forecast, trying to plan for some cash flow,

1008
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 2: and I think having a little rental property could be

1009
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 2: a potential game changer. The fact that she's looking ahead

1010
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 2: allows her to pursue this while she still has some income.

1011
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: I think that that is pretty wise. And eighty US

1012
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 2: in particular. You mentioned this at the beginning, Joel, but

1013
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 2: they have been growing in popularity around the country. They're

1014
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 2: certainly booming in California due to the loosening of building restrictions.

1015
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 2: I think was it maybe the late teens they loosened

1016
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 2: the laws, and I think they exploded in the early

1017
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 2: early twenty twenty.

1018
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: Something like a quarter of new units going up in

1019
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: California are eighty US because those are like some of

1020
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: the easiest units to build in a state that's really

1021
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: hard to build in. I love it.

1022
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: And if you have some extra land that you already own, Gale,

1023
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 2: I think building an extra dwelling unit here can offer

1024
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 2: some income while also increasing the value of that property

1025
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 2: as well. Not to mention, you're talking about doing this

1026
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 2: in retirement, which is pretty cool because it kind of

1027
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 2: I think it allows you to transition to taking on

1028
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 2: sort of this additional project. And as to whether or

1029
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: not you look to do a short term rental, if

1030
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: you're looking for it to be more of a hands

1031
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 2: on thing, I think you could do airbnb right like

1032
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 2: the ability to list this unit, maximize reiss.

1033
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: Yes, it's going to.

1034
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 2: Require a little more hands on, maybe a little more

1035
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: cleaning or at least even managing other folks who are

1036
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 2: going to be doing that work for you. But what's

1037
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 2: so cool is that you can dial it back and

1038
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 2: you can say, you know what, that's actually, that's a

1039
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 2: little bit too much from a lifestyle standpoint, that's not

1040
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 2: what I was picturing my retirement years to look like.

1041
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, you get you a

1042
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 2: long term renner in there where you aren't maximizing the

1043
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 2: returns quite as much, but it's a lot.

1044
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: A lot easier. Or be like our landlord and get

1045
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: a podcaster in their torrential space. Maybe that's the best.

1046
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 2: I think that's the best because we don't spend nights here.

1047
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 2: I know, we don't gride our bikes up, we don't

1048
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 2: clog the driveway yeah, we're very conscientious. We're a very

1049
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 2: green podcast. Even the last standpoint high.

1050
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: Five their child as I walk by, and I'm like,

1051
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: what's up man, and catch up and I.

1052
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 2: Just try not to get bit by the dog. No

1053
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 2: that too, you get barked at, right, Yeah? Oh yeah, okay,

1054
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 2: so very barkie dog. I always play it cool.

1055
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 1: He's not that barkie. He's kind of barkie. I think

1056
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: you're right though. I mean, I think this is one

1057
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 1: of those things where it maybe you could even provide

1058
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: a little bit of joy sometimes, like running your own

1059
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,479
Speaker 1: little rental property, especially when you don't have a day job.

1060
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: It's like cool, it gives me something to focus on

1061
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: and think about. And I'm kind of, like we referenced earlier,

1062
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 1: you're not going from one hundred down to zero all

1063
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: the way. But should you take out a loan? I

1064
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: think I think probably I'm okay with this. I mean,

1065
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: especially since you said you'd be able to pay it

1066
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: off in five years or less. That is a really

1067
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: good sign saving up cash would be ideal. That's a

1068
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 1: tall task. I mean, there's a reason most people take

1069
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: out a mortgage when they're buying a home, and this

1070
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 1: is kind of similar, right that you are taking out

1071
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 1: money from the value of your home to build something

1072
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: that is going to produce returns for many years to come.

1073
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: So if you take out a he lock, I think

1074
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: paying it off in short order is ideal. And then

1075
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: you know, run the numbers to make sure they're they're

1076
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 1: actually realistic. So how much is it actually going to

1077
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: cost you to build this adu in your backyard? Make

1078
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: sure you have proper information, and then you're not just

1079
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: making assumptions and to keep drawing down on that helock

1080
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: because maybe you didn't sufficiently plan for the actual cost.

1081
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: So get a firm number in hand before you sign off,

1082
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: because you might be like, oh, I think it'll take

1083
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:11,919
Speaker 1: me five years, but then you get the hard numbers

1084
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: and you're like, actually it's gonna take like eight and

1085
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: a half.

1086
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 2: I didn't realize ten years. Yeah, and all of a

1087
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 2: sudden doesn't feel quiet as smart of a move. It

1088
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 2: becomes a different proposition. So yeah, Also, what's it likely

1089
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 2: to rent for? Do your due diligence on that, because

1090
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 2: if you're making rosy prognostications, it could come back to bite.

1091
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 1: You gotta be realistic.

1092
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I really like the timeframe of shooting for

1093
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: five years or less. I wouldn't bank on this, but

1094
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: the fact that helock rates could decline in the near

1095
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 2: future I think with that in mind, that causes me

1096
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 2: to think that, you know, I think a helock could

1097
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: make a whole lot of sense as long as you

1098
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 2: have thought through what it is at Joel. What you

1099
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 2: just mentioned right like that, you're being realistic, that you're

1100
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 2: not counting on the rosiest projections as to what your

1101
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 2: return might be. Let's hear from another anonymous Facebook group member,

1102
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: and she wrote, how is everyone affording health care? I'm

1103
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 2: considering leaving my job to become a stay at home mom,

1104
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 2: but my family's insurance has always been through my employer.

1105
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:11,800
Speaker 2: My husband has a small business and we are a

1106
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 2: family of four with plans to continue growing. If you

1107
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 2: are self employed or a business owner, what are you

1108
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 2: doing health share plans? I would appreciate if anyone is

1109
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 2: able to share actual costs and experiences.

1110
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,919
Speaker 1: Joel, what you think man? What's going on with health care? Man?

1111
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 1: It's such a pain in the butt, especially for small

1112
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: business owners, but it's becoming even more of a pain

1113
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: for people that are traditionally employed as well. And so

1114
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 1: it's one of those problems that's been brewing kind of

1115
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: slowly and then rapidly. It's both at the same time.

1116
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:45,280
Speaker 1: And so it's just this really problematic price increases over

1117
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: the past decades, and then when you have a ten

1118
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: percent price wing in a single given year, it just

1119
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 1: feels like an extra punch to the gut. And so, yeah,

1120
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: for listeners who have coverage through their job, they might

1121
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: be more insulated, but employers are still passing on increased

1122
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: cost at higher rates. And so yeah, small business owners

1123
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: who are at a particular disadvantage. If your income is solid,

1124
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: prices on healthcare dot gov can just be stratospheric. They

1125
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 1: can be laughable. You might look that up and be like,

1126
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: how in the world is my family going to afford

1127
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: twenty seven thousand dollars in premiums for our family. That's

1128
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: just that's before we go see the doctor, right, that's

1129
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: just the monthly premium amount total for a given year,

1130
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 1: and the coverage might be bare bones even with an

1131
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: astounding monthly cost. So you have to be really careful

1132
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: to thread this needle because if you don't thread it well,

1133
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: then you could be talking about a huge percentage of

1134
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: your income going just to you know, pay the healthcare piper.

1135
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:39,760
Speaker 1: That's true.

1136
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the answer really might be health sharing, which

1137
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 2: is what our family has done. Ours currently costs three

1138
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy five dollars a month. There's a recent

1139
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 2: bump to health care health sharing ministries.

1140
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: Our bumpus pretty significant this year.

1141
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, they put like a special press release out where

1142
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 2: they're just like explaining the fact that, like, hey, costs

1143
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 2: gone up, this is why we're having to Essentially, they

1144
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 2: technically can't call them premiums because it's not technically insurance.

1145
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 2: And so that's one of the things you have to

1146
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 2: keep in mind when it comes to health sharing is

1147
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 2: that it is technically not insurance. It's not federally regulated.

1148
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,240
Speaker 2: It is health sharing.

1149
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 1: But so many people are migrating there because the cost

1150
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: of actual insurance it's so much better, made it impossible

1151
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 1: to afford, and so there's better over at health sharing. Well, yeah,

1152
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 1: if I'm going to save you know, eighty five percent

1153
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: on the premium equivalent of a health sharing plan, then.

1154
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:29,439
Speaker 2: I think the risk I think some folks are Yeah,

1155
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 2: so literally we're paying three seventy five which you might

1156
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:33,919
Speaker 2: be hearing and thinking, oh my goodness, you are paying

1157
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 2: three seventy five a month for a family of six.

1158
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: Yes, that is exactly what we're doing.

1159
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 2: That being said, our family household share, which is code

1160
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 2: for deductible, is twelve thousand dollars, so we're at one

1161
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 2: of the higher amounts. We're treating it more like a

1162
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,399
Speaker 2: high deductible healthcare plan.

1163
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: On top of that, there is no copay, right, so

1164
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: when you go see the doctor, you don't pay twenty

1165
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: five dollars. You're paying out a pocket with thirty five

1166
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: dollars or something like that, which is what most people

1167
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:03,439
Speaker 1: with traditional health insurance pay.

1168
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 2: So we pay the full freight. Get used to going

1169
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 2: to the doctor and paying a lot more.

1170
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: And talking about what you're paying ahead of time.

1171
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, in order to negotiate that more foodable rate.

1172
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 2: But this poster was looking for specifics, and so I

1173
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 2: was because I'm a nerd and I've got all my

1174
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: expenses on excel.

1175
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 1: I look back at our.

1176
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 2: Medical out of pocket costs aside from our health sharing

1177
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 2: premiums that we pay, and over the past decade, we

1178
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 2: have averaged two hundred and eighty nine dollars a month

1179
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 2: in out of pocket medical costs so anywhere from so

1180
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 2: that that includes paying for medication or paying for a

1181
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 2: doctor's visit, a physical, different things like that. And of

1182
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 2: course there's a wide spectrum of years, and so I

1183
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 2: wanted to share this too because she mentioned that they're

1184
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 2: looking at still growing their family. That included a year

1185
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 2: years when we added a couple kids, So that was

1186
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 2: on average over the past ten years when we had

1187
00:52:59,280 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 2: two more kids.

1188
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: I imagine we're your most expensive Those.

1189
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 2: Were more expensive years. Those were years that out of

1190
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 2: pocket we paid closer to nine ten thousand dollars. But

1191
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 2: it also includes years when we didn't have a kid

1192
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 2: that we're paying closer to nine hundred dollars a year.

1193
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 2: So it swings, there are vastic it oscillates in a

1194
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 2: crazy way. But that being said, I know we have

1195
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 2: saved so much stink and money over the years due

1196
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 2: to health sharing, so that's something it's something to consider.

1197
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,720
Speaker 2: There's a faith element, of course, that's why it's able

1198
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 2: to be with some providers, but some of the private

1199
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 2: that's true, yeah.

1200
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: Because then there's like sidera out there who doesn't have

1201
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: any sort of faith requirement. So it's worth if you're like, oh,

1202
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,320
Speaker 1: I'm not a part of a church or a faith tradition,

1203
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: then you can look into other providers who don't have

1204
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: that requirement. But yeah, if you are a member of

1205
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 1: a church or a faith tradition, you can potentially say

1206
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: more by being with one of those faith affiliated health

1207
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: sharing companies. So it's uh, man, it's such an expensive thing.

1208
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 1: It's such a conundrum, and that this is one of

1209
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: the reasons I think it's the biggest reason math that

1210
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 1: I hate that healthcare is tied to employment because the

1211
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: trade off's the worst to go. It disincentivizes entrepreneurship in

1212
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: this country. So this is something we really need to

1213
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 1: figure out for the for individual families, for the burden

1214
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 1: that they face, but also for the economic dynamism that

1215
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: we want to see from our country. And I think

1216
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: we want to incentivize people to go out there and

1217
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 1: start something awesome and build a cool small business. But

1218
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 1: right now we've made it kind of prohibitive with how

1219
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 1: expensive healthcare is, and typically most people have to decide,

1220
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,720
Speaker 1: actually one of the spouses is going to remain working

1221
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: in order to get the healthcare benefits so that the

1222
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: other partner can go out there and start that business,

1223
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: and this couple is kind of trying to do like

1224
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: both those things, start a business and not have that

1225
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: additional employment and healthcare coverage. It's not easy. It's not easy.

1226
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 2: All right, we're going to touch along, but we've got

1227
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 2: to get to our beer, which was a cordial offering.

1228
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 2: It's got some art here, sort of like Burial. They're

1229
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 2: going a little more metal, but this was a peanut

1230
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 2: butter cup by Edmund's host. What did you think about

1231
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 2: this one, buddy? I was under, well, oh yeah, I

1232
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 2: like it.

1233
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 1: I think I maybe it just had to do with expectations,

1234
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: and I like edmund zost and I was expecting something great.

1235
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: I was expecting peanut butter imperial stout, Like.

1236
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 2: They don't make a whole lot of stouts, do they.

1237
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 2: That's I don't think that's their typical Yeah, their typical style.

1238
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,840
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe that's why. Maybe that's why I guess I

1239
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 1: was expecting something like thick and rich and vibrant and

1240
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: peanut buttery, and it was I.

1241
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 2: Just wanted to be the middle of winter. This happened

1242
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 2: last week too.

1243
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 1: Is an Imperial stout though, man, like, come on, this

1244
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,839
Speaker 1: this tastes more like a porter with like a few

1245
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 1: Reese's peanut. It was a little bit thicker than a porter.

1246
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: But I hear what you're saying.

1247
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 2: It felt a little like when you say that it's

1248
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 2: an is it Did it say it's an imperial Yeah?

1249
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 1: It says right here.

1250
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, when you say that you're an imperial stout,

1251
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 2: you expect at least three notes, you know, like like

1252
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 2: it's such, whereas this does feel a bit too nody.

1253
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 4: Right.

1254
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: It's kind of got like.

1255
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 2: The peanut butter kind of flavors going on, but then

1256
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 2: it's got the roasty flavors. It makes me think of

1257
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 2: like a peanut butter cup for sure, but with like

1258
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 2: dark chocolate. Like there's no I don't know, there's no

1259
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 2: additional surprise element that makes I think a good beer great.

1260
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: So I'll forgive them for this one and hope for

1261
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 1: a return to greatness on the next selection that we

1262
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: get from them.

1263
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're still a fantastic brewery, but that's gonna be

1264
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 2: it for this episode. Buddy listeners can find our show

1265
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 2: notes up on the website at howtomoney dot com. We'll

1266
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 2: make sure to link to any of the different resources

1267
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 2: that we mentioned, and that's gonna be it, so until

1268
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 2: next time, best friends out, best friends out.

1269
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,280
Speaker 1: It doesn't, man, it doesn't taste like a ten percent