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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back, George Nori with you. William Peters

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Speaker 1: our guests, but he's back with us. Founded the Shared

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Speaker 1: Crossing Project to raise awareness about the profound and healing

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Speaker 1: experiences that are possible for the dying and their loved

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Speaker 1: ones at the end of life. He is a marriage

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Speaker 1: and family therapist at the Family Therapy Institute of Santa Barbara.

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Speaker 1: Holds a degree with a focus in group dynamics from

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Speaker 1: the Harvard Graduate School of Education. William directs the Shared

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Speaker 1: Crossing Research Initiative. It is the first research based program

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Speaker 1: designed to examine the causes of strategies for enabling the

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Speaker 1: shared death experience. His book is called At Heaven's Door.

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Speaker 1: He was last with us back in March of last year. William,

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Speaker 1: welcome back. Have you been hey, George, Thanks to have me,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me, and good to be back.

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Speaker 1: And I'm doing well excellent. How did you get involved

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Speaker 1: in the shared death experience? Was that that episode I

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Speaker 1: just mentioned, Well, that was the first full blown share

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Speaker 1: death experience I had. However, I will tell you that

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Speaker 1: when I worked with persons essentially dying from AIDS in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco in the late eighties early nineties. I was

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Speaker 1: hearing about these experiences because I was a social worker

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Speaker 1: at that time, and because the way that this community

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Speaker 1: of men were dying, they were very close to one

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Speaker 1: another and they just had these deep relationships during the

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Speaker 1: dying process that seems to facilitate the shared death experience.

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Speaker 1: So I heard a lot about these experiences. And since

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Speaker 1: I had had a near death experience before this work,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, I had a second near death experience

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Speaker 1: after working with this AIDS population, I was very open

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Speaker 1: and very receptive. So when I heard about these experiences,

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Speaker 1: I was very curious and I was very supportive, and

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Speaker 1: that led more and more people in that community to

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Speaker 1: seek me out for affirmation, and all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: in the back, You've got some incredible people who have

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Speaker 1: endorsed your book, including our dear friend, doctor Raymond Moody.

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Speaker 1: One of the best, isn't he? Raymond spectacular and his

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Speaker 1: support in the early days of our research was phenomenal.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it really helped get the word out, connect

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Speaker 1: us with the right people, and it launched our research

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Speaker 1: project which today is the largest, most respected organization studying

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Speaker 1: to share death experience and explain what a shared death

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Speaker 1: experience is. William, Yeah, So a shared death experience occurs

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Speaker 1: when somebody's dying and a caregiver, loved one, sometimes even

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Speaker 1: just a bystandard, will express that they feel like they

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Speaker 1: share aired in the journey from this human life into

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Speaker 1: the afterlife with this dying loved one, so as in

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Speaker 1: a sense they hitch a ride with the dying across

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Speaker 1: the threshold into this next dimension, which we know caul

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Speaker 1: the afterlife, and people will refer to this, I should say,

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Speaker 1: the experiencers will say it was a glorious or beautiful

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Speaker 1: or awe inspiring afterlife when they refer to this place

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Speaker 1: that they see their loved ones going and they experience

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Speaker 1: it with them, they don't have the words. So if

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Speaker 1: you see the way I'm describing this now, it is

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Speaker 1: identical in terms of phenomena as the near death experience.

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Speaker 1: So if you understand the NDE, you will understand the

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Speaker 1: SDE because the Raymond and I have talked numerous times

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Speaker 1: about this. It's that way because we're looking at the

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Speaker 1: same landscape, the same geography that comes right after a

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Speaker 1: human death is a shared death experience william enlightening to

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Speaker 1: the person who lives or is it scary? It is

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Speaker 1: we You know, we have over two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: deeply analyzed accounts, and we only have a handful that

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Speaker 1: would I say, like a half dozen where they would

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Speaker 1: say anything that would be what you might want to call.

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Speaker 1: We call it a distressing ste and it's distressing because

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Speaker 1: they just have no way of processing the event. Or

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Speaker 1: here's here's the most distressing ste we have. When the

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Speaker 1: experiencer feels or connects so deeply to the experience of

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Speaker 1: the person transitioning, they'll have We have cases where let's

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Speaker 1: say the dying had a heart attack or a drug overdose,

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Speaker 1: they will have an empathic connection, it appears because we'll

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Speaker 1: have those same symptoms. So what happens often is the

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Speaker 1: one will call and say, hey, I've got to share

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Speaker 1: this experience. My niece was dying of a fetanyl overdose,

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Speaker 1: and at the same time, I was sweating, I was vomiting,

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Speaker 1: I was I have my convulsions in my abdomen and

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Speaker 1: I blanked out and it passed. But they say that

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Speaker 1: when they were having this they were very scared. When

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Speaker 1: they learn later about our research that is that suggests that, oh,

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Speaker 1: if you have a loved one who is having a

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Speaker 1: distressing traumatic end of life's experience at death, then you

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Speaker 1: may empathically connect with it. Those are the only distressing

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Speaker 1: SDSE we have, and and when you recast them for

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Speaker 1: the experiencer, they'll come back and say, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: now I get it. It feels like my dying loved

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Speaker 1: one was reaching out to me to say goodbye, or

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Speaker 1: to share or do something on the level of connection.

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Speaker 1: But to be clear, those are those are less than

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Speaker 1: you know, we have maybe a half dozen of those,

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Speaker 1: maximum would be ten or so, but most of them

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Speaker 1: are overwhelmingly transformative experiences for the better. We hear. The

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Speaker 1: most common after effect would be I know my loved

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Speaker 1: one is alive and well, I know that it will

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Speaker 1: be reunited again. I know that there's nothing to fear

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Speaker 1: about death. And they'll say, I feel like this experience

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Speaker 1: has awakened in me these intuitive, psychic, spiritual capacities, and

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Speaker 1: so they're and their anxiety around death not only just

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Speaker 1: is alleviated. People get curious and drawn to get closer

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Speaker 1: to death, to learn more about it, to be with

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Speaker 1: people who are going through that experience, so it's wholly

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Speaker 1: transformative in a positive way. So it comforts them more

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Speaker 1: than anything, doesn't it. Yeah, that's the that's the best term, actually, George,

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Speaker 1: is that the SDE is comforting because one data point

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Speaker 1: in particular, and that is this, fifty one percent of

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Speaker 1: our experiencers report that they see the dying in the

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Speaker 1: transition and they see that they're alive and well, and

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Speaker 1: this so comforts them assuages their sense of loss. We

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Speaker 1: all grieve when we lose a loved one, but when

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Speaker 1: you have the SDE, you have a much larger context

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Speaker 1: to cushion the loss. So it's incredibly affirming and comforting.

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Speaker 1: Our guest is William Peters. His book is at Heaven's Door.

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Speaker 1: His website is linked up at Coast to coast dot com.

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Speaker 1: Give us a few examples of other people share death experiences.

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Speaker 1: Will you sure I'm going to I'm going to share

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Speaker 1: one that's been on my mind since I heard it now,

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Speaker 1: and believe it or not, I heard this the case

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Speaker 1: almost six months ago, but it so struck me because

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Speaker 1: it speaks to a type of SDE in which an

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Speaker 1: elevated being appears, and I've identified this being and named

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Speaker 1: it as the conductor. And the conductor has this role

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Speaker 1: that appears of transitioning soul spirits, consciousnesses of human beings

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Speaker 1: from the human existence into the afterlife. And it is

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Speaker 1: a role. It appears to be a role because when

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Speaker 1: the conductor appears, it has a type of personality if

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Speaker 1: you will, it can be. It can appear in a

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Speaker 1: lot of different roles. In other words, it can be

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Speaker 1: a lovely woman, angelic. It can be a majestic male

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Speaker 1: type figure that can be commanding, even look like a

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Speaker 1: military figure. But every time it appears, it has a

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Speaker 1: sense of purpose, a sense of intensity, a sense of focus,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like it's organizing a variety of if

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Speaker 1: you would say, like elements that are important to create

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Speaker 1: an easy passing for the dying. And so it can

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Speaker 1: be directive, even saying to the shared death experience and sir,

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Speaker 1: stand back if it's you know, if the shared death

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Speaker 1: experiencer is in the room with the person dying or

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Speaker 1: at bedside it. The conductor can often be in relationship

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Speaker 1: with the shared death experiencer, telling them what to do,

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Speaker 1: what not to do. Some will report to the conductor,

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Speaker 1: even puts them to sleep in a certain way and

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Speaker 1: then wakes them up at certain times. So I'm going

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Speaker 1: to give an example. This comes from Gloria Ka. And

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Speaker 1: so Gloria has a her husband is dying, and her

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Speaker 1: husband and her have talked quite a bit about what

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Speaker 1: they want from death, and her husband has said to

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Speaker 1: her he's dying of cancer. He says, I want to

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Speaker 1: show you everything I can about what death is, and

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Speaker 1: I want to bring you along with me. So they

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Speaker 1: have a kind of death compact, which is important because

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Speaker 1: we feel that these agreements that the dying and the

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Speaker 1: surviving loved ones make can help enable the SDE And

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Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of research on that. If you

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Speaker 1: go back to the Society for Psychlical Research in the

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Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds, there were the early researchers, you know,

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Speaker 1: Myers in particular, talked about the importance of death compacts,

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Speaker 1: bringing about operations and connections between the dying and they're

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Speaker 1: surviving loved ones. In this case, Gloria had this with

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Speaker 1: her husband. So about four or five days before her

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Speaker 1: husband dies, he's on hospice, you know, in the hospice

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Speaker 1: hospital bed in the living room. She's in the kitchen,

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Speaker 1: which is adjacent and it's nighttime and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: she describes, this being appears between her in the kitchen

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Speaker 1: and her husband in the hospice bed, and he is large,

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Speaker 1: like an oversized being that actually has to duck to

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Speaker 1: move through a doorway, which she does, and she refers

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Speaker 1: to him as the Tall One, and she says it

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Speaker 1: was like the Tall One had a light emanating from

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Speaker 1: within him. So he shows up four or five days

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Speaker 1: before and Glory's husband dies, and really doesn't so much

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Speaker 1: communicate directly with Gloria, but Gloria knows that he knows.

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Speaker 1: The Tall One knows that she's there, so he does

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Speaker 1: eventually do certain things to her life. He draws her

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Speaker 1: into the room to get closer to her husband. He actually,

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Speaker 1: Gloria says, it's like he was protecting her husband in

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Speaker 1: a certain way in which she knew that she shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be close or she could get close. He one time

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Speaker 1: let her know that her husband's death was close at hand,

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Speaker 1: so he brought her close and then strangely, she says,

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Speaker 1: he kind of knocked me out. I kind of was

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Speaker 1: trying to stay awake, trying to stay and I just

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Speaker 1: felt this overwhelming sleepiness come over me, and I just

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Speaker 1: went to sleep. But then I woke up right at

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Speaker 1: the time when he was about to pass, And in

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Speaker 1: her own language, she says, it was like he was

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Speaker 1: giving me some rest so that he could do some

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Speaker 1: work energetically to prepare space, if you will, but also

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Speaker 1: give me some rest so that I could be awake

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Speaker 1: and alert for this period of passing. And then as

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Speaker 1: she awakes, she's there with him for a while. And

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Speaker 1: I shall also say, boy, it was difficult to talk

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Speaker 1: about time in this space because it was a different

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Speaker 1: time space to mention, but she does say she remembers

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Speaker 1: this kind of space opening up above of her husband's bed,

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Speaker 1: a vortex of sorts that was both confusing a bit disorienting,

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Speaker 1: but very clear that that's where her husband was going.

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Speaker 1: And she watched her husband go up this energetic vortex

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Speaker 1: above his bed, and the tall one the conductor was

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Speaker 1: managing the entire process and eventually acknowledge to her that

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Speaker 1: the time it was time, he was going and in

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Speaker 1: his own way, be careful here, because the conductor is

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Speaker 1: always primarily focused on the dying and in some cases

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Speaker 1: communicates as needed with the surviving love one with the

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Speaker 1: caregiver loved one and in this case kind of standard

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Speaker 1: gave some acknowledgement to her and then was off with

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Speaker 1: her husband into the afterlife and disappeared. Always ascension, see

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Speaker 1: this, this this direction of ascending upwards in the ste So

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Speaker 1: there's a really profound example. I mean, I'm just kind

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Speaker 1: of summarizing it. That really got me focused on this question.

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Speaker 1: Is there a guide, like I call it the conductor

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Speaker 1: that manages this transition for us? And now I'm going

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Speaker 1: back with my team to look over all of our

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Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty cases, and we're seeing it. You know,

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Speaker 1: we didn't really George, we didn't know how to ask

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Speaker 1: that question in the initial stages of our first one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty research participants. But now we're on it.

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Speaker 1: We're going back and we're seeing in a higher prevalence,

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Speaker 1: and when we ask people will say, we'll say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I any chances you feel any presence as any you know,

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Speaker 1: any beings that might have been there to facilitate this transition.

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Speaker 1: And people will sometimes say, oh, it's so funny that

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Speaker 1: you ask I felt this presence. And here's an important thing, George.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes the conductor is visible and seen and sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: felt and sensed, and people will say I felt this

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Speaker 1: force that was I end up communicating to me, But

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Speaker 1: I could definitely feel that this force was in relationship

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Speaker 1: with my dying loved one. How far into the shared

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Speaker 1: death experience is that person taken? I mean, does it

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Speaker 1: get to the point where if there's a heaven in

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Speaker 1: hell and that person in the dying is in there,

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Speaker 1: does that person go along with that or does it

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Speaker 1: just get to a certain point. Yeah, this is I

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Speaker 1: love this question because you know, when we looked at

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Speaker 1: the NDE, what you hear over and over again is people,

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Speaker 1: you know, starting with an out of body experience, going

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Speaker 1: into heavenly realms. Maybe there's a life review. You might

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Speaker 1: see deceased relatives, maybe an elevated spirit being. You might

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Speaker 1: move through a tunnel. You're always heading for a light,

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Speaker 1: and the near death experiencer will will say sometimes they

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Speaker 1: go into the light. Near death experiencers do not come

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Speaker 1: out the other side of the light. They either go

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Speaker 1: into the light, but they always they always come back.

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Speaker 1: And the shared death experience it's very similar. So you'll

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Speaker 1: have a series of experiences. The most profound one is

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Speaker 1: that the sdear will see the dying, and more often

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Speaker 1: than not will witness the dying move through this afterlife

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Speaker 1: space phenomenon that they see in the NDE. The light

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Speaker 1: seems to be the boundary. The sdear will watch the

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Speaker 1: dying enter the light, and once they enter the light

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Speaker 1: and they don't see them anymore, they are almost immediately

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Speaker 1: they return to their body. So it seems like this

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Speaker 1: space that the SDE takes place in is the initial

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Speaker 1: stages of the afterlife, and the light seems to be

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Speaker 1: the boundary between the initial stages of the afterlife and

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Speaker 1: those next dimensions. Nobody in the ste goes into the

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Speaker 1: light and goes to the other side or stays there

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Speaker 1: very long. They may be, you know, dwelling in the

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Speaker 1: light for a little bit, but everybody talks about I

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Speaker 1: was in the light, and that is the last stage

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Speaker 1: if you go into the light. There's not too much

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Speaker 1: more phenomena after that in the nine of our cases.

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Speaker 1: So the light is the boundary between the initial stages

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Speaker 1: of the afterlife and the other stages of the afterlife,

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Speaker 1: which you know, we can talk about, but that's a

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Speaker 1: whole other field. If you will listen to more coast

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Speaker 1: to coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern and

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Speaker 1: go to Coast to coast am dot com for more