1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,680
Speaker 1: A Quest Loft Show is a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:10,680
Speaker 2: So up, y'all.

3
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,160
Speaker 3: June is a Black music month, and every year we

4
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,960
Speaker 3: use this time to acknowledge something that really can't be overstated.

5
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:22,560
Speaker 3: Black music is one of the foundational forces behind modern culture. Now,

6
00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,200
Speaker 3: back when Teams Supreme and I were doing the Questluf

7
00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,160
Speaker 3: Supreme and now on the Quest Loft Show, we've always

8
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,600
Speaker 3: tried to create a space for those stories. So for

9
00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,840
Speaker 3: the entire month of June, we're bringing you an episode

10
00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,559
Speaker 3: every day focused on the history, influence, and ongoing evolution

11
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,720
Speaker 3: of black music. A Team and I Doug Crew the

12
00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,680
Speaker 3: catalog of selected episodes that feel especially meaningful for now,

13
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:52,600
Speaker 3: conversations that inform entertain connect the dots between where this music.

14
00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:53,920
Speaker 4: Comes from and where it's headed.

15
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:59,160
Speaker 3: Now, alongside those, we'll be releasing four new episodes of

16
00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,400
Speaker 3: Quest Left Show featuring trailblazers, innovators, and cultural connectors and

17
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,640
Speaker 3: visionaries who represent the past, present, and future of black music.

18
00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:09,320
Speaker 1: I want you to enjoy this.

19
00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:20,800
Speaker 3: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This is Quest Love Supreme.

20
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:27,200
Speaker 3: Welcome to our our are nominated our NAACP nominated Team Supreme.

21
00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,119
Speaker 4: Like Yeah, Hello, how about you. I'm feeling good.

22
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,080
Speaker 5: Image Award nominated, sir, I have made it.

23
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,039
Speaker 4: Yes, that's fine. And uh, Suca, Steve, how are you

24
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:38,600
Speaker 4: this evening? I'm good.

25
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,920
Speaker 3: My image has been nominated as well by the NAACP.

26
00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:46,800
Speaker 2: That's how I'm feeling.

27
00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:47,920
Speaker 4: I'm feeling good.

28
00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:52,560
Speaker 3: And uh, you know, the keeper of Rocco and Elmo?

29
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,120
Speaker 3: How you doing, un pay Bill.

30
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:56,720
Speaker 4: I can't say that.

31
00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,040
Speaker 3: I ever thought in all the awards that I'd ever

32
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,280
Speaker 3: been nominated for an end double a CP award.

33
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,520
Speaker 4: So feels good like that.

34
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 6: There you go.

35
00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 4: How's it going.

36
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,919
Speaker 7: I'm good, brother, I'm good man, glad to be nominated,

37
00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 7: and uh yeah, I never thought this would happen this way.

38
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:23,320
Speaker 3: Over three years right straight, ship Threet came, It's okay,

39
00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:24,400
Speaker 3: we're back here here, sir.

40
00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:26,840
Speaker 1: He went to get cigarettes for a long time.

41
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:27,560
Speaker 6: Okay.

42
00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,280
Speaker 3: So I know for the longest, you know, I've been

43
00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,120
Speaker 3: talking to our listeners at q LS, especially in the

44
00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:38,200
Speaker 3: last year, about you know, the direction of transformation my

45
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,960
Speaker 3: life is going, and how it's important to often get

46
00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,560
Speaker 3: out of your comfort zone. You know, I'm stretching out

47
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,200
Speaker 3: to different territories. So I will be the first to

48
00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:52,760
Speaker 3: be very transparent with our longtime listeners of q LS

49
00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:58,400
Speaker 3: that this episode should be notable for Unlike previous Quest

50
00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,639
Speaker 3: of Supreme episode sodes, this will probably the first time

51
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,680
Speaker 3: that and it's not like I have a PhD in

52
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,720
Speaker 3: every guest that ever comes on the show, but this

53
00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,560
Speaker 3: will probably mark the first time that I don't know

54
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,440
Speaker 3: the entire canon in history of a particular guest of

55
00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 3: the show like.

56
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 4: The back of my hand. I'm not saying that I'm

57
00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:21,959
Speaker 4: not familiar with our guest today.

58
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,520
Speaker 3: So that said, I would actually like to say and

59
00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,880
Speaker 3: injac that we have two special guests today. So joining

60
00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:34,000
Speaker 3: the Team Supreme is my brother and soul or soul

61
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:43,520
Speaker 3: aquarian James Alo Wishes, poiser, producer, songwriter, fellow Randy watsoner

62
00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,520
Speaker 3: extraordinaire and Gospel of ficionado and mean and.

63
00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:48,880
Speaker 1: World famous meme on Twitter.

64
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,720
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, James is definitely like a meme. I'm not

65
00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,480
Speaker 3: even a meme, Like that's a life of mine?

66
00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,720
Speaker 2: Do means get nominated for naacp A Woods.

67
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:07,320
Speaker 5: Years backup, you have Grammy and you know, but I'm satin.

68
00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,680
Speaker 4: That's a meme hall of Fame, and the Meme Hall

69
00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:10,080
Speaker 4: of Fame.

70
00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,800
Speaker 3: You will make it that said, I brought brother James

71
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,559
Speaker 3: here to help me pick up the pieces on things

72
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,080
Speaker 3: that I otherwise wouldn't know because for me, I don't

73
00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:21,560
Speaker 3: want to leave any stone unturned.

74
00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,960
Speaker 4: Our guest today, I will say.

75
00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:32,400
Speaker 3: Is one of the most legendary and influential musicians that

76
00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,239
Speaker 3: I know in Black music.

77
00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,320
Speaker 4: That's not hyperbolic or anything.

78
00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:41,560
Speaker 3: I say this literally because I've not met a musician

79
00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:47,880
Speaker 3: post five that has not made our guests their north

80
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,680
Speaker 3: star as far as their musicianship is concerned. We'll get

81
00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,480
Speaker 3: with that in the show today, but without further ado,

82
00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,600
Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to quest of supreme be

83
00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,400
Speaker 3: legendary brother Fred Hammon.

84
00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,240
Speaker 6: Yes, appreciate it.

85
00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:10,880
Speaker 8: Appreciate it, and congratulations everybody and your nomination.

86
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,279
Speaker 4: Thank you very much. We thank you for that. You

87
00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,279
Speaker 4: know what's weird, I didn't even know that you were.

88
00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:24,120
Speaker 3: Active on social media and you had left a comment

89
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:25,960
Speaker 3: in one of my things, and I was like, yo,

90
00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:31,880
Speaker 3: Fred Hammond knows who I am. Like I had zero

91
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,880
Speaker 3: clue that you even knew that I was alive or anything.

92
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:40,400
Speaker 3: So this conversation is long long overdue because, as I

93
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,960
Speaker 3: said at the top, back when I was really honing

94
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,279
Speaker 3: my skills as a musician.

95
00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,080
Speaker 4: There was like one of three routes you can go. Now,

96
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,080
Speaker 4: we all knows that I chose the hip hop route.

97
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,600
Speaker 3: Most musicians in eighty three, eighty four, eighty five, they

98
00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,599
Speaker 3: chose the purple route. And then there's a sect of

99
00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,159
Speaker 3: black musicianship in which which you might have a household

100
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 3: that might not allow secular music in the household. And

101
00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:12,680
Speaker 3: that said, I will say that you were probably their

102
00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,680
Speaker 3: main choice. And when I say you, I'm talking about

103
00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,720
Speaker 3: you and your very influential group commissioned.

104
00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:20,000
Speaker 4: So I thank you.

105
00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,919
Speaker 3: I've been dying to have this conversation with you because

106
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 3: I need the edumacation.

107
00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 4: So where are you right now as we speak.

108
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,040
Speaker 6: I'm at my studio here in Dallas.

109
00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,440
Speaker 8: I have a warehouse and the studio here that I

110
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,800
Speaker 8: do everything out of me and my family, my brothers,

111
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,320
Speaker 8: and I was actually just finishing up a vocal that

112
00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,840
Speaker 8: I'm working on for the New Addition tour, just to

113
00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,400
Speaker 8: kind of give them some stuff to go through some transitions,

114
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,080
Speaker 8: you know, give them some suggestions and stuff. So I

115
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,160
Speaker 8: was just finishing up that, you know, and then we'll

116
00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 8: send it out to them and say, you know, give

117
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,720
Speaker 8: some ideas of what can happen. My brother Ray is

118
00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,039
Speaker 8: the production manager for the tours. So when you see

119
00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,360
Speaker 8: BBD a new addition, he's front of the house and

120
00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,480
Speaker 8: the guy that runs the you know, gets everything together

121
00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:08,279
Speaker 8: production line.

122
00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 3: So you're telling us that you're sort of quasi m

123
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,480
Speaker 3: D or co MD of this reunions or that's.

124
00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:21,280
Speaker 8: About it's just uh, right now, we're just seeing some stuff,

125
00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,360
Speaker 8: and I wanted to show them, like a lot of

126
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,560
Speaker 8: the transitions that they want to do from song to song,

127
00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,480
Speaker 8: the song that they could do some vocal right here,

128
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,960
Speaker 8: that's simple, that's what they do, because it's not normal

129
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,240
Speaker 8: for them to do that. And so I just went

130
00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,320
Speaker 8: in there and just did some old commission new edition

131
00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,080
Speaker 8: type stuff, simple just to get them to the next song,

132
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,600
Speaker 8: you know, so to give them another just to give

133
00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,720
Speaker 8: my idea of what can happen. So you know, it's

134
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:47,240
Speaker 8: up to them.

135
00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:54,120
Speaker 3: You know that sounds like yeah, quasi Okay, Well it's

136
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,360
Speaker 3: funny you say that because I think maybe like a

137
00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,760
Speaker 3: month ago, I was listening to Heartbreak and I was

138
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,280
Speaker 3: just talking to Jimmy jam about the intro song of

139
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,960
Speaker 3: that album, which is called uh, that's the way We're living,

140
00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:14,480
Speaker 3: which as far as it's execution is concerned, I feel

141
00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,960
Speaker 3: like that definitely falls from the tree of what Commission

142
00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,360
Speaker 3: was about. You know, when a lot of these cats

143
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,000
Speaker 3: that have what we call gospel chops, they're basically saying that,

144
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,400
Speaker 3: you know, they're sons of Commission. So always wanted to

145
00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:34,560
Speaker 3: know how you felt about your influence as far as

146
00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,560
Speaker 3: the black musicianship we have now with gospel chops. Like

147
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,240
Speaker 3: you know, do you watch acts often in R and

148
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,440
Speaker 3: B say like, well, that's our lick, and that's our lick,

149
00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:43,319
Speaker 3: and that's our like.

150
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,320
Speaker 8: Well, you know the thing about it is back then

151
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,920
Speaker 8: a lot of people don't notice. But I was close

152
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,760
Speaker 8: with a lot of those guys back then.

153
00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:53,280
Speaker 6: You know.

154
00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,040
Speaker 8: You know, it was funny because you know Davante his

155
00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,080
Speaker 8: father is a pastor and one day we did a

156
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,480
Speaker 8: concert at their trick and DeVante said, yo, man. You know,

157
00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,480
Speaker 8: he came up I style. He was a young fella.

158
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,400
Speaker 8: He said, hey, man, I just want to tell you

159
00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,680
Speaker 8: guys that have been influenced us and I just got

160
00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 8: signed to m c A and the name of my

161
00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,720
Speaker 8: group is called Jodasy. I say, really, he say, you

162
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,640
Speaker 8: know k C and I knew Little k C. From

163
00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,199
Speaker 8: Little Cedric. I used to Friday so Little Cedric and

164
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,080
Speaker 8: the Hayley Singers. We would do concerts together and pass

165
00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 8: on the road and do interviews and whatnot. So I

166
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,440
Speaker 8: was I kept up with all of those guys and

167
00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 8: you know a lot of the cats, Chucky Booker and Da.

168
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,840
Speaker 6: And they would bring me backstage.

169
00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,400
Speaker 8: They would bring me backstage and whether they were doing

170
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,760
Speaker 8: the Budwives and Superfessor, and I'm a student. You know

171
00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,160
Speaker 8: a lot of people, you know a lot of church people,

172
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,040
Speaker 8: they don't go places and learn because they can't control

173
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 8: theirselfs when they get inside or behind the curtain, you know.

174
00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,000
Speaker 8: But I would go, you know, I would go to

175
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,959
Speaker 8: Al Hayman, Budwiser, Superfessor, and I would meet the guys

176
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 8: backstage and I would watch. I'd be a student of

177
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,400
Speaker 8: production of how they were playing, and I would take

178
00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,360
Speaker 8: it back to Commission. You know.

179
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:01,080
Speaker 3: Uh.

180
00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:06,440
Speaker 8: Commission is a amalgam of the Clark sist number one,

181
00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,040
Speaker 8: the vocal of the Clark Sisters. Then the rest is

182
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 8: the time, earth wind and Fire, the genesis.

183
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:15,679
Speaker 6: You know.

184
00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,960
Speaker 8: Chicago, we did just a different thing, and we noticed

185
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,560
Speaker 8: that a lot of the guys that were coming around

186
00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,120
Speaker 8: at that time, were coming up to us and they

187
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,600
Speaker 8: were starting to get get put on like boys and men,

188
00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:30,360
Speaker 8: and we just kept in touch and we were just

189
00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:35,360
Speaker 8: cool and friendly. Little Joe and Buddy from the Rude

190
00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,960
Speaker 8: Boys were always doing something. We're always together at some

191
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,679
Speaker 8: point doing something, letting them hear music. They're letting us

192
00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,760
Speaker 8: hear ours and hear theirs, and you know, so we

193
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:46,920
Speaker 8: kept connected with our R and B family.

194
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:52,960
Speaker 4: You know, did he just say Genesis, Yes, But.

195
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,680
Speaker 3: If you if you really look at it, yo, I mean,

196
00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,800
Speaker 3: there's really not that much difference.

197
00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:03,280
Speaker 4: Between Pride Rock and Got the Chops.

198
00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:10,080
Speaker 3: Crazy dude, we just saw it like we just literally

199
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:15,319
Speaker 3: I forget the brother's name, but I remember when James,

200
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:20,400
Speaker 3: I think you remember this. Do you remember when Who's

201
00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,160
Speaker 3: Who's the group that who were they were formerly known

202
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,079
Speaker 3: as at the Drive in? And then when one of

203
00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:31,160
Speaker 3: their members, right, So, do you remember when Mars Volta

204
00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:36,199
Speaker 3: auditioned a drummer at our studio like behind literally next

205
00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:36,880
Speaker 3: to your studio.

206
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,000
Speaker 4: He was a Gospel Chops.

207
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:43,640
Speaker 2: Drummer, Thomas Pridgin. I think yes, yeah, and.

208
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,280
Speaker 4: It was it was the match made it.

209
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,559
Speaker 3: At first, I was like, that's weird that they got

210
00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,640
Speaker 3: a gospel chop drumming to do it, but because of

211
00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,360
Speaker 3: the intricacies of what Mars Volta is, it was like

212
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,080
Speaker 3: a marriage made in heaven.

213
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:56,880
Speaker 4: And that's when I.

214
00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:02,520
Speaker 3: Realized that gospel chop and progue rock are almost neck

215
00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:03,480
Speaker 3: and neck with each other.

216
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,280
Speaker 4: I mean, of course gospel chop has more soul to it,

217
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,680
Speaker 4: but every every pop group now has a gospel drummer.

218
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,040
Speaker 4: I just an Ariana Grande and all those guys they

219
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:11,400
Speaker 4: all have.

220
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,319
Speaker 3: It's all like big fills from three to four and

221
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:16,520
Speaker 3: one every every bar.

222
00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:22,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's literally music. I think that all music.

223
00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:23,719
Speaker 1: Like everything's like at the end of the four of

224
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:24,280
Speaker 1: our phrases.

225
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,840
Speaker 3: What the notable thing about my entry in music is

226
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,160
Speaker 3: that on the opposite of that, but literally which is funny, Well, yeah,

227
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,160
Speaker 3: which I'm saying that Basically, I feel as though Commissioned

228
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 3: really is probably the most influential black group in at

229
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,400
Speaker 3: least the last forty years of music, second to Prince,

230
00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,400
Speaker 3: you know, as far as the as far as the

231
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,840
Speaker 3: ripple effect of Nah.

232
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:58,560
Speaker 4: Absolutely their contribution.

233
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:00,960
Speaker 7: I mean, because you look at a I'm like I'm learning,

234
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,000
Speaker 7: I mean, which is one of my favorite songs for y'all.

235
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,040
Speaker 7: I mean, that wouldn't sound out of place on a

236
00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,240
Speaker 7: Jodasy album or you know what I'm saying.

237
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,839
Speaker 1: Like it was that they always liked about y'all.

238
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,480
Speaker 7: Y'all stuff was that it was I could tell when

239
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,440
Speaker 7: you say, you know, you were a student and you

240
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,040
Speaker 7: would go and meet the other groups and stuff. The

241
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,120
Speaker 7: songs always sounded current, you know what I'm saying, a

242
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,120
Speaker 7: lot of times gospel because for those very reasons you said,

243
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,040
Speaker 7: you know, gospel stuff would always be behind, like if

244
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:29,800
Speaker 7: it came out in ninety two, it would sound like

245
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:30,480
Speaker 7: something from.

246
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,640
Speaker 1: Like eighty eight, eighty seven, you know what I'm saying.

247
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,920
Speaker 7: But Commission Records, y'all was always like right on time

248
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:37,840
Speaker 7: and it was never dated.

249
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,000
Speaker 1: I always appreciated that man, that right there.

250
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,719
Speaker 8: Was it was just our DNA. It was like we

251
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,960
Speaker 8: listened to everybody. I give you a story. One of

252
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,679
Speaker 8: the guys wrote a song called It's so good to

253
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,559
Speaker 8: Know the Savior, and he was a tempo guy, so

254
00:13:53,760 --> 00:14:00,240
Speaker 8: it was like a church tempo It's so good know,

255
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,480
Speaker 8: let's say, and the record company didn't pick it. It

256
00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,160
Speaker 8: was it had all of the fizzle and the buzzer

257
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 8: and everything, and the guy. He came to me and said, hey, man, listen,

258
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,960
Speaker 8: I think we need to change the drummer out, which

259
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,240
Speaker 8: is our drummer. I was like, no, man, it's not that.

260
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,720
Speaker 8: I say basically, it's man, it's kind of dated. And

261
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,720
Speaker 8: I said, tomorrow, we just need to castle over to

262
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,200
Speaker 8: that month. And they didn't know because they hadn't heard.

263
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,800
Speaker 8: They hadn't heard LeVert. I was cool with Gerrell, and

264
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,320
Speaker 8: so when Casanova came out, they hadn't heard it yet.

265
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,120
Speaker 8: So I said, let's just get in the studio and

266
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 8: let me flip it a little bit. And I had

267
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,080
Speaker 8: an ra drum machine and some stuff and I just

268
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:41,119
Speaker 8: boot boom.

269
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,200
Speaker 4: Got to him boom boom, boom.

270
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,280
Speaker 8: Cocka boom, and then it changed into you can see

271
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,800
Speaker 8: a vamp into that and then the song had life.

272
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,400
Speaker 8: Well that was because we stayed current and we paid

273
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,920
Speaker 8: attention to the trends and our counterparts. You know, we've

274
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,880
Speaker 8: paid attention to everybody from the old school, whether it's

275
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,240
Speaker 8: luther Al Green, you know, earth Wind all the way

276
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,920
Speaker 8: up to the verb to a babyface to the deal.

277
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,000
Speaker 6: You know, like we were talking what song we like?

278
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 6: We like Sweet November or do we like this?

279
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,960
Speaker 4: Because our vocals.

280
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:18,200
Speaker 8: Were off of the whispers and the dramatics. Those are

281
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,240
Speaker 8: our male vocal counterprices that we love.

282
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:20,800
Speaker 6: Do watch.

283
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,840
Speaker 8: So if you hear a lot of our harmonies we

284
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,200
Speaker 8: sing like Ron Banks and Scottie and Walter, you will

285
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,280
Speaker 8: hear a lot of that in. But then we add

286
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,040
Speaker 8: what we are. But it's because we paid attention to musicology.

287
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 8: We just paid attention to everything, you know. So it

288
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,800
Speaker 8: was funny too you said something about Jimmy. Jimmy Terry

289
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 8: is like my hero, Jimmy Terry, Teddy Tim baby Face

290
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,640
Speaker 8: in La. So one time we were going to do

291
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,840
Speaker 8: this thing in Minnesota called uh It's a Methodist church

292
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,680
Speaker 8: and they were Soul Liberation Outreach and they said where

293
00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,480
Speaker 8: you want to go to? My said, can we go

294
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,160
Speaker 8: see flight Time? Because we we were just you know,

295
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:02,920
Speaker 8: we didn't have no studios. So I said, can we

296
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,520
Speaker 8: go see flight time? We want to see some black

297
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,240
Speaker 8: guys who were owning something. And I walked in the

298
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,920
Speaker 8: flight Time and I was just blown away. And that's

299
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,960
Speaker 8: when I was just influenced heavily by you know, these

300
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,320
Speaker 8: two guys. And they were just finishing the controls starting

301
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 8: on we about to start on this new record called

302
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:25,360
Speaker 8: Rhythm Nation they're recording now, and we just had those moments.

303
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,760
Speaker 8: Then they said, well where you want to go next?

304
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,640
Speaker 8: Now we church boys now remember this, this is this

305
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,600
Speaker 8: is for we church boys, so we don't do clubs

306
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:34,440
Speaker 8: and stuff like that.

307
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,760
Speaker 6: So somebody said, you want to go see Prince studio

308
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 6: and we was like, oh, I don't know, so.

309
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,800
Speaker 8: I think were like, I think something gonna jump over us.

310
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,920
Speaker 8: But I said, yeah, man, I want to go. I

311
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:48,840
Speaker 8: want to see it. So we went over there. Man,

312
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,240
Speaker 8: and on the whole ride over there, because at that

313
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,320
Speaker 8: point Prince wasn't in his last space. He was in

314
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,080
Speaker 8: that that I want to I'm gonna really mess you

315
00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:01,000
Speaker 8: up with whatever I'm talking about. And we walked up

316
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,280
Speaker 8: to the place and people was praying Jesus help us Lord.

317
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,240
Speaker 8: You know, we're walking into the spot and we're thinking, man,

318
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:13,160
Speaker 8: you better pray and put some annoying oil on. When

319
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:18,080
Speaker 8: when we walked in, it was business as usual. People

320
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,919
Speaker 8: just walking around doing business. It wasn't nothing crazy. And

321
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,720
Speaker 8: I said, man, this is whole thing is a persona

322
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:32,120
Speaker 8: I thought it was. And the rest of the guys,

323
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:33,639
Speaker 8: some of the guys said, I'm just stay in there.

324
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,359
Speaker 8: I'm gonna stay in the van, I said, I'm going in.

325
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,160
Speaker 8: I want to see what's what I mean, how find

326
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,400
Speaker 8: you get this? How do you get this close? And

327
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,320
Speaker 8: I see this guy had a complex. I mean at

328
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,880
Speaker 8: that time, to think about Paisley, it was it was

329
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,640
Speaker 8: it was like Cowboys Stadium at that time.

330
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:53,840
Speaker 6: She said, I gotta go see it.

331
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,879
Speaker 8: But when I walked through, they took us to his

332
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,600
Speaker 8: personal room and they just my mind was blown because

333
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,399
Speaker 8: it was business. And at the end of the day,

334
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,320
Speaker 8: I say, man, this is just a persona. And then

335
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,399
Speaker 8: I learned how to be an owner. So now I

336
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,880
Speaker 8: mean I got seventeen thousand squar feet. Well, it came

337
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,960
Speaker 8: from Jimmy and Terry. It came from Jimmy, Terry Prince

338
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:20,639
Speaker 8: and Michael Powell who lived in Detroit, who Baker that

339
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:25,240
Speaker 8: was my close friend. So I had to learn. And

340
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,240
Speaker 8: that's you know, I looked at my big brothers to

341
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:27,960
Speaker 8: do that for me.

342
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:35,680
Speaker 3: You know, Okay, I want to start at the beginning

343
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 3: of your life. I'm assuming that you were born in Detroit.

344
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,200
Speaker 6: Michigan, was born in San Antonio.

345
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,680
Speaker 3: Oh all right, See the one time I don't ask

346
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 3: the question, I get burnt. Sorry, can you tell me

347
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,679
Speaker 3: what your first musical memory was?

348
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,240
Speaker 8: My first musical memory, honestly was first of all. You know,

349
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,640
Speaker 8: I say this because a lot of people have these

350
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 8: misconceptions about gospel artists and preachers that everybody thinks that

351
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 8: they're perfect.

352
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,320
Speaker 6: I don't. I was.

353
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,160
Speaker 8: I was born different, you know, I was. My mother

354
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 8: and father were married to other people, and he was

355
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 8: a pastor and my mother was a musician, and the

356
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:26,400
Speaker 8: church really dogged my mom and protected him, and so

357
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,119
Speaker 8: they kind of put her out. And so it was

358
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 8: basically me and her. And before I was born, you know,

359
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 8: we went through this whole thing about she was she

360
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 8: wouldn't have had an abortion and it didn't work, you know.

361
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 8: So it's a lot of stuff that goes on with

362
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:45,879
Speaker 8: me being here. So yeah, yeah, And so she was

363
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,639
Speaker 8: my biggest musical influence. So I followed her everywhere to

364
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 8: because she taught choirs. She was very amazing at teaching

365
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 8: choirs and playing the piano for churches. And I never

366
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 8: forget I'll go back to she came home with this

367
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 8: little forty five and I had a clothes and play

368
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,159
Speaker 8: and she said, you know, I bought these boys, you know,

369
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 8: and it was just a picture of these five boys,

370
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,879
Speaker 8: was the Jackson's and she said, you know, listen to this.

371
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 6: I hadn't even heard them on the radio.

372
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 8: And I put it on my clothes and play and

373
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 8: I Want you back came on, and I just saw

374
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,399
Speaker 8: Michael as my age because they were saying he was

375
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 8: younger than they said he was my age. I was

376
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:28,200
Speaker 8: probably five six, and I was just I was enamored

377
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,359
Speaker 8: with this group, and so I was singing and I

378
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 8: found myself singing Jermaine's part at six seven years old.

379
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,680
Speaker 8: And my mother said, you know, if you open your mouth,

380
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 8: you can sing better.

381
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 6: You can sing like.

382
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,119
Speaker 8: That little boy right there. And I was very shy,

383
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 8: and I didn't want her to hear me because I

384
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 8: thought she would make me sing in front of people.

385
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 8: So I made sure she didn't ever hear me again.

386
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,520
Speaker 8: So I took my clothes and play in the closet

387
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,159
Speaker 8: because you ran her own batteries, and I sang in

388
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 8: the closet because I didn't want her to hear me sing.

389
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 8: I was afraid she was going to put me up

390
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 8: there in church. And so that's my earliest knowledge right there.

391
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 5: So were you kind of born into skepticism of the church,

392
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 5: like sincere because of your situation. You know.

393
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 8: The beautiful thing is God kept me from that from

394
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 8: the knowledge of people now thinking I was worth it,

395
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 8: you know. But when I look back at it, a

396
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 8: lot of people just thought I was just worthless because

397
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 8: you can't do nothing with God because you're born.

398
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 6: Out of wether lite. Who are you?

399
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 8: You know your mother, your mother's is an adult, so

400
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 8: they just kind of threw us away. But the reality

401
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 8: is that's why I'm probably effective today. Not because I

402
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 8: sing good, not because I play any instruments, not because

403
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,120
Speaker 8: I produce anything or saying on anybody's record. It's because

404
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 8: I understand what broken people go through. And so my

405
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 8: whole job is to tell people, Hey, man, I've been broken,

406
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,439
Speaker 8: I understand brokenness. You why don't you come with me?

407
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 8: I believe this and you know, so there's no errors.

408
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 5: It's just there's a forgiveness element in there too, though.

409
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:01,679
Speaker 5: You got that you that's with it.

410
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely, So when people like quest you said, you

411
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 8: understand my pain when it comes to just you and

412
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 8: your mom, you understand that, you know, and maybe others

413
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:11,679
Speaker 8: do too.

414
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 6: But you know my path, man, my.

415
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 8: Path, it's just it's been ordained to go through a rugged, rugged,

416
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,360
Speaker 8: feed up path to get to this point to tell

417
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 8: other people, I understand where you are, I get it,

418
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 8: I get it.

419
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 4: Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I mean that's mine.

420
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 3: Wasn't as drastic as like being shoned or whatnot, but

421
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 3: definitely my parents were sort of in the same situation

422
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 3: where they were part of other unions, and you know,

423
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 3: that's kind of how you know, I came, I came.

424
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 4: To the world. So for a lot of our listeners,

425
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 4: I don't know if they're fully aware.

426
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 3: You know, I would explain to people often that you know,

427
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 3: we'll look at somebody like you know.

428
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,719
Speaker 4: Ray Charles now as a national treasure.

429
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 3: But you know, I would tell like anybody I'm teaching

430
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 3: about Ray Charles is the fact that you know, Ray

431
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 3: Charles was probably almost the NWA of his day.

432
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 9: Like the idea of the idea from singing gospel music

433
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 9: with secular lyrics was highly controversial with the Black church,

434
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 9: and fast forwarding to where your entry into gospel music

435
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 9: is where you can put some funk inside it or

436
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 9: put some swing inside.

437
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 3: Of your music and it really not rub people the

438
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,959
Speaker 3: wrong way. Can you explain just the what brought you

439
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 3: to Detroit? How did you make that transition from San

440
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 3: Antonio to Detroit.

441
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 8: Well, due to the circumstances situation, they sent this up

442
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 8: to Detroit.

443
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: We was sitting, oh how exiled to Detroit exile.

444
00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 8: We got a nice bus ticket up to a Philly

445
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 8: place called Detroit and a beautiful family called the Hope,

446
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 8: the Hoak's family. They took us in and they gave

447
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 8: us their attic and we became a part of their

448
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 8: family while my mother went through her healing process, you know,

449
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 8: of which when she passes seventy four, she was still

450
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 8: trying to validate herself as you know, forgiven, you know,

451
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 8: and she was a she's a great praise warrior, great,

452
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 8: you know. She she made a lot of strides, but

453
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 8: it just she couldn't get over some things.

454
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 6: And so we ended up in Detroit, which was a blessing.

455
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 3: How big is your family at this point as far

456
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 3: as your siblings, and.

457
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 8: At that time it was me and my mom. At

458
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 8: this point it's me. I got two brothers, Ray and Dave,

459
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 8: and they have families.

460
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 6: I have a family, I.

461
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 8: Have kids and whatnot. And I have two sisters that

462
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 8: live in Atlanta, from my mother's other union, you know, okay,

463
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 8: and then then I have a brother and four other

464
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 8: sisters from the other union. So I'm right there in

465
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 8: the middle. I'm the absolute when you count down, I'm

466
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,239
Speaker 8: the middle child of all of that, you know. So

467
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 8: that's we're and now we're all kind of cool together.

468
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 8: My brother from my father's side, he comes and he

469
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 8: drives our tour bus from time to time, and my

470
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 8: sisters are so we're all kind of together, and you know,

471
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 8: that's that's the thing.

472
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 4: So, Okay, I know you were born in nineteen sixty,

473
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 4: I believe.

474
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 3: So can you describe to me what it is to

475
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 3: grow up in Detroit, Michigan in the early seventies. I

476
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 3: know about you know, I've heard people tell me about

477
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: growing up in Detroit in the early sixties. And I know,

478
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 3: of course people who grew up in Detroit between like

479
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 3: the mid eighties and the in the early nineties.

480
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 4: But I really don't know.

481
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,239
Speaker 3: People that have had a period in Detroit in the

482
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 3: early seventies, like around that period where like United Sounds

483
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 3: there where you know, motowns leaving. Could you just describe

484
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 3: to me basically what your life was as a teenager

485
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 3: in Detroit, Michigan in the seventies.

486
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 8: You know, it was really just about about school and

487
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 8: surviving in the hood, you know, just you know, one

488
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 8: of my good friends in the seventies, I went to, well,

489
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 8: my mom moved to California to Inglewood when I was

490
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 8: in the fourth grade, the first part of the fourth grade,

491
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 8: and she didn't like it, and we came back to

492
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 8: Detroit around December. But I hadn't been in school, so

493
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 8: that whole fourth grade year I had to try to

494
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 8: catch up. So this is like the seventies, you know,

495
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 8: this is and whatnot. The next year I had to

496
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 8: go to a parochial school a seventy at Venice, where

497
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 8: I was good friends. Best friend was Greg Mathis, Judge

498
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 8: Greg Mathis. So he and I were in the Wow,

499
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 8: oh yeah, you and I were in the fifth grade

500
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 8: together and everything you ever hear that he ever said

501
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 8: one hundred Because I lived in the hood and he

502
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 8: lived in the projects. He lived in the Herman Gardens,

503
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 8: and he had a bunch of brothers. But he was

504
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,479
Speaker 8: smart as a whip in the fifth grade and I

505
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 8: was struggling. But he and I were just really good friends.

506
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 8: So growing up there, it was just you know, the

507
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 8: seventies are almost a blur because I wasn't musical yet.

508
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 8: I was thinking more sports and whatnot. And I hadn't

509
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 8: done any real music until I got to about sixteen,

510
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 8: about fifteen or sixteen years old, and I transitioned from

511
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 8: drums in my church to bass guitar.

512
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 4: Okay, wait a minute, you're trying to tell me that.

513
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 3: I'm thinking like you came out the wound playing bass,

514
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 3: but this didn't happen until you were a teenager.

515
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 8: Yeah, right around fourteen, thirteen years old, I start transitioning

516
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 8: because my mother. I went to a church called Greater

517
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 8: Grays Temple, and the line to play drums was around

518
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 8: the corner, and the pastor's son he had a lot,

519
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 8: Chuckie Ellis, Charles Ellis. He's bitch of bellist now, but

520
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 8: he was an amazing drummer, and I had my sticks.

521
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 8: I would go every Sunday and I would try to play,

522
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 8: and you know, just never got a chance. So my

523
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 8: mother said, hey, you know, I don't like to see you,

524
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 8: you know, not getting a chance. Is there any other instrument?

525
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 8: There was a bass guitar laand over in the corner,

526
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 8: and nobody would come and play because the guy was working,

527
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 8: and I said, well, I like to play bass, maybe

528
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 8: I could try that, And that's when I moved to

529
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 8: bass guitar and I never looked back.

530
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: The reason why it's also important for me to know

531
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 3: about this specific period in the seventies is because I

532
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 3: know that once black families migrate to the Midwest, especially

533
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 3: in town you know, like in Ohio, Detroit, Indiana, Illinois,

534
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: you know a lot of them are escaping the South,

535
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 3: the racism of the South, the Jim Crow South.

536
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 4: They're getting these factory jobs. These factory jobs are paying.

537
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,479
Speaker 3: Well, and they're buying these houses, and the houses have

538
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: garages and of course instruments. You know, this is basically

539
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 3: how like the first wave of the funk generation starts.

540
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 3: And I know that around maybe around the Nixon administration

541
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 3: seventy seventy one seventy two, you know, budgets started to

542
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: get cut, music education started to wane and whatnot, and

543
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 3: the idea of the garage band, you know, kind of

544
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 3: wilted out. So I mean, by that time period, even

545
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 3: though you were late in developing your musicianship, were there

546
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 3: musicians around like next door and all those things, or

547
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 3: were factories closing by then, and then like that dream

548
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 3: just died.

549
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 8: You know, music was still big, even though of the

550
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 8: porch bands and the garage bands from the sixties weren't

551
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 8: very popular, but music was still a thing, you know.

552
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 8: So I hooked up with a guy at my fifteen

553
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 8: His name was Jeff Stanton, and he was like my

554
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 8: best friend. And this guy could play every instrument at

555
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 8: that point. He play bass, he could play guitar, he

556
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 8: could play drums, and he was fluent at it at

557
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 8: fifteen years old. So he would take every day we

558
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 8: would come home to his house after school or in

559
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 8: the summertime, and we would just shed and he would

560
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 8: start to show me people. He was the person he said, Man,

561
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 8: I got this record. You really need to hear check

562
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 8: it out. This dude right here plays all the instruments.

563
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 8: His name is Prince and it was the four You album.

564
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 8: And so we're listened in the basement and he's like, man,

565
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 8: listen to that.

566
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 6: Listen to that. You got to get on.

567
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 8: Your theory for it. He's teaching me theory. He's like, up,

568
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,239
Speaker 8: what's that? And I'd have to kind of come back

569
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 8: and name it. And so every day we would shed,

570
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 8: and we would go places like the Detroit Mission, the

571
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 8: Detroit Music Union, and bands would play come in and audition,

572
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 8: so we it was still alive. Uh, And then we

573
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 8: would play in the garage. We played Mister Magic for

574
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 8: like four hours, you know, in the garage. Then we graduated.

575
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 8: Then we graduated to Herbie and you know a Chameleon.

576
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, so once I learned that them

577
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 8: two songs and we have a little crowd out there

578
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 8: and we just play it, and then there it was.

579
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 8: I was so proud when I learned the baseline to

580
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 8: That's the Way of the World, and I learned that

581
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 8: that had doom doom, doom, doom doom. When I learned

582
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 8: that concept that that, man, it blew me away. So

583
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 8: we were still it was still a powerful place to

584
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 8: learn music. It hadn't died that whole seventies. It hadn't died,

585
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 8: you know.

586
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 4: Well living in Detroit.

587
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 3: Was was any of the p funk folklore, Like was

588
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 3: that an influence on you at all, Like seeing any

589
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 3: of those guys around United Sounds or any of those things,

590
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 3: or was that sort of like after you know, they

591
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 3: migrated and went to California.

592
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 4: Like, was any of that part of your DNA at all.

593
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 6: You know.

594
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 8: They had a on eight Mile there was a club

595
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 8: called Axles. Okay, the lead the Woods, Lamont Johnson, they

596
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 8: would all play there. Yeah, so they would all play there.

597
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 8: Amp Fiddler would show up and they say, yo, ma

598
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 8: Ant Fidler from he played with George Clinton. Uh, David

599
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,719
Speaker 8: Chong would I mean, and the all these people, and

600
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 8: we would try to go in there and sit in there,

601
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 8: sneaking because it was kind of under but we'd sneak

602
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 8: in and we'd listen to.

603
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 6: Them and these cats. The funk was heavy.

604
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 8: It was still Brainstorm was just starting to get started.

605
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 6: Man. It was real, real strong.

606
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 8: So Amp Fiddler, Uh, we never got a chance to

607
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 8: see George, but we played with a lot of the

608
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 8: guys that played on his record, like Butch Small I

609
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 8: believe his name is but Mo.

610
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, he was real big.

611
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 8: He used to run a studio called ARMJ and so

612
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 8: he was the Lynn drum king. So he came and

613
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 8: did some Lynn drum on the first Commission record.

614
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 4: You know.

615
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 8: But he was just somebody we looked up to, you know,

616
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 8: Warren Woods, the engineer, you know, man, it was just

617
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 8: it was still rich Man it hadn't died at all.

618
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 8: I mean, it was still really rich in the seventies,

619
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 8: especially going into the eighties.

620
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 3: So as a musician, who would you say, is is

621
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 3: your north star? As far as like, that's the musician

622
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 3: I want to emulate, because it's weird to me. Like

623
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 3: most bass players I know, especially having lived in the seventies,

624
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 3: every every sentence starts with the least with Larry grahams,

625
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 3: thank you for letting me be myself, for Stanley Clark.

626
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 3: So the fact that you started in seventy eight with

627
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 3: Prince tells me that you're sort of a later generation.

628
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 3: So who, as far as like your setting and as

629
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 3: far as like who you wanted to emulate, who is

630
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 3: the musician that is your north star?

631
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 6: Well? Number one?

632
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,479
Speaker 8: Okay, Well let's break it up into two bass players. Okay,

633
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 8: not because my total north star is Stevie period, hands down, right,

634
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 8: but as far as bass players are going. Okay, So

635
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 8: my first bass player influence and I didn't really know it,

636
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 8: but I would pick his sound out when I heard

637
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 8: I want you back.

638
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:37,280
Speaker 6: That's James Jamison.

639
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 4: James Jamison, I would hear his.

640
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 8: Bass lines and I just always locked him. Now as

641
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 8: a bass player. I definitely was Stanley and Jacko, and

642
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 8: then it was Abe Laboreal. It was Alfonso Johnson who

643
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 8: played this fretless situation. I paid attention to Anthony Jackson,

644
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 8: these are my these are my go tos. And then

645
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 8: of course Marcus was younger, so he came on the

646
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 8: scene a little bit later. Those guys were my Jamison Clark,

647
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 8: Anthony Jackson, Jocko, Alfonso Johnson, Gino Vanelli's bass player. I

648
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 8: don't know who it was, but we would listen to him.

649
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 8: So anybody that was really killing back then, we would

650
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 8: grab their record, their music and we would just I

651
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 8: would share to it. So those are my north stars

652
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 8: right there.

653
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 3: So were you more a team uh thumb plucking or

654
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 3: were you more a team index middle finger for baby?

655
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 8: I was I'm a pocket guy. I never had the

656
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 8: all of these. I just laid in that pocket. So

657
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 8: I was definitely a thumper. I was definitely team thump.

658
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 4: I get it, okay, I love it. At what point

659
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 4: are you forming uh or.

660
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 3: At least bonding with Marcus Montreal like the other members

661
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 3: of commission, Like how are you guys?

662
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 4: How do you guys meet?

663
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 3: And is that was that your first actual band or

664
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 3: did you have other bands before?

665
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 8: Well, Mitchell Jones and I we graduate. We went to

666
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 8: school together at Mumford High and we were together NonStop

667
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 8: all three years. So he and I started Commission.

668
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 6: You know.

669
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 8: At the end of the day he and I started Commission,

670
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 8: I went off to play for the Winings. I was

671
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 8: the bass player for them from nineteen until I was

672
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 8: like twenty three years old, and that's when I started.

673
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 8: That's when I started Commission. But it was me and Mitchell,

674
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 8: Keith Staton, Carl Reid, Michael Brooks and Michael Williams the drummer,

675
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 8: and right around them, right.

676
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,439
Speaker 3: Around are you talking Liver studio both with the Wan

677
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.

678
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 8: Oh, with the Winings, I was just I was, man.

679
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 8: They wouldn't even let me near the studio. They wouldn't

680
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 8: you could even you couldn't even see nobody famous.

681
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:00,439
Speaker 6: Here's here's a joke.

682
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 8: Andre Crouch came to their house and Ronald told me,

683
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 8: he said, man, if you don't, if you be good,

684
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 8: I'll let you come over and see Andre. So we

685
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 8: was like, oh man, we just skim and so they

686
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 8: this is no joke. They had us come over. He

687
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 8: opened the door, and we had to look through the

688
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 8: screen and I was sitting in the chair over He said,

689
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 8: just look over there, that's him right now.

690
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: Wow.

691
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 6: And we were like, wow, that is him. Wow.

692
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 8: This that we never asked if we come in, and

693
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 8: we never went in. They were why go home?

694
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 7: Nah.

695
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: That's how they protected their relationships, like.

696
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 8: No, no, So I never got a chance to play

697
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 8: on any album you know, with them or anything.

698
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 6: We weren't you know, we weren't good enough, but we

699
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 6: were good enough to do the road.

700
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 8: And you know what, we wasn't offended. We really weren't offended.

701
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 8: When we heard their records. We knew it was something

702
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 8: different between Abel Boors, Bill Maxwell, Hadley Howkin Smith. You know,

703
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 8: we knew it was something different. So we weren't tripping,

704
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 8: you know, we just appreciated the opportunity to just be

705
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 8: in the number.

706
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: Now, let me ask you this, were you around that

707
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna nerd boy out on.

708
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: The churches while you're here?

709
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 2: Were you back then on the church vibe where Thomas

710
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 2: Woodfield and Rudolph Stance, Phil and all them guys.

711
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 4: Whoa see that stuff? I wouldn't know that, ask like.

712
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 8: Thomas Woodfield gave me my first chance to play in

713
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 8: the studio and my base, my bass wasn't up to park,

714
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,959
Speaker 8: it wouldn't stay in tune, and I was too young.

715
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 8: The first record was Vanessa Belle Armstrong Peace Be Still

716
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 8: record Yes, and there's a song called I Don't want

717
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 8: my living to be in vain and anyway you bless

718
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 8: me and playing those two Okay. My boy that honestly

719
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 8: he called in because my base didn't work was Lenard

720
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 8: Bradley Kerr.

721
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 6: Okay, kurrent, everybody knows that's okay.

722
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 8: So but Kerr was the king around there, and uh,

723
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 8: he was another guy that kind of schooled me. But

724
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 8: that was my first take on going in the studio.

725
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 8: So then when we did our demo as commission, we

726
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 8: asked we saved um some money and we asked Thomas

727
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 8: Whitfield the producers. So, uh, when you hear the bed track,

728
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 8: when you hear the rhythm track, like, if you listen

729
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 8: to these four songs given my problem to you, I

730
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 8: can see Jesus if you listen to uh, if we

731
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 8: ever needed the Lord before those three songs. The rhythm

732
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 8: track of that was produced by Thomas Whitfield, WHOA and

733
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 8: I was amazed by Thomas, because you know, Thomas had narcolepsy.

734
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 8: So Thomas would be where he would be straight up

735
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 8: like this, get that be flat out of there, and

736
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 8: everybody stopped and somebody played and they solo it, and

737
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 8: sure enough, get that player played the B flat that

738
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 8: was kind of hidden up under there.

739
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 6: He said, I don't play that, No, that's a scene.

740
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 6: Come on, And h Thomas was my hero. Thomas was

741
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 6: really my hero.

742
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 8: And I would sit in the corner of RMJ studio

743
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 8: and I went out. I remember washing a garbage can out.

744
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 8: It was like this little gray high school bought garbage

745
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 8: can we have in high school. I went and washed

746
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 8: it out. I turned it upside down and stuck it

747
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 8: between the tape machine mc I tape machine and an

748
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,919
Speaker 8: effects rack. And I sat in this little cubby hole

749
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 8: and I didn't ask say a word. I said, don't

750
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 8: let him kick me out. Don't let him kick me out.

751
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 8: And I honestly just sat there and I listened, and

752
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 8: I prayed, and I said, Lord, show me how he thinks.

753
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 8: And I probably was eighteen years old at that time.

754
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 8: I said, please show me how he thinks. Because he

755
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 8: was a he was a genius when he sat down

756
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 8: and played like he sit on the piano and played. Man,

757
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 8: it was it was magical just the way he did it.

758
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 8: And so you know Thomas Whitfield man, Rudolf Stanfield, oh man, Yes,

759
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 8: Rudolf was and I'm not sure if you remember this

760
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 8: guy because he was right with Thomas, and that's Earl J.

761
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 4: Wright.

762
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 8: You know he was, he was. He was a genius.

763
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 8: So all these cats ran together and I just stood

764
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 8: in the background.

765
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 3: So, yeah, brother Hammond, you mentioned about you're not having

766
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 3: the right base.

767
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 4: What one?

768
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 3: What was your first base you used? And what is

769
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 3: your acts of what is sort of your acts of.

770
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 4: Your your your favorite seal?

771
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, okay, so true story.

772
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 8: Uh, my mother we went to k and when we're

773
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 8: talking about going to a base, we went to kmart

774
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 8: and there was a base on sale for thirty five

775
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 8: dollars and the headstock was cracked, literally cracked, and they

776
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 8: said thirty five dollars and the guy said, if you

777
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 8: buy it now, I'll give it to you for twenty

778
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 8: five now. It couldn't stay in tune. It was impossible

779
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 8: because between the A and the G, you know there

780
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 8: was it was cracked, right, So I'm sitting there and

781
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 8: I'm going I think we can fix this. So I

782
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 8: think we can take this a wood shop and put

783
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 8: it on advice and put some blue there. And I'm

784
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 8: trying to figure out how to make this thing work.

785
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,439
Speaker 8: So we took it up to Wonderland Music and said,

786
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 8: you know, can y'all fix this? And the guy said,

787
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 8: now you can't fix that. You need to take that

788
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 8: back and buy this one. We'll give it to you

789
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 8: for the same price if you come back and buy it.

790
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 8: We took it back to Kmart argued with him because

791
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 8: it was no return, but they gave us some money back.

792
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 8: My mother took the twenty five back to Wonderland and

793
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 8: we bought this Norma for that same out and so

794
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 8: I never forget. My mother said, if you if you

795
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 8: put this under your bed and you don't use it,

796
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 8: I'm gonna sell it.

797
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 6: Now.

798
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 8: You got to promise me. And so I promised her.

799
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 8: And I played, and I went to church and we

800
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 8: had a storefront church, and I played. I had a

801
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 8: little bitty amp and I played, and I would play

802
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 8: so high because you couldn't hear me. So I had

803
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 8: to play it like a lead. Because church be gone,

804
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 8: that's what you need to hear out that little amp.

805
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 8: And so my mother got really I got discouraged, and

806
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 8: I put it up. So for four months my mother

807
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 8: let us sit up under the bed, and then one

808
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 8: day she was going we were going to choir wrestle

809
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 8: and she said, I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed in you. You

810
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 8: promised me I'm gonna sell that. I'm gonna sell it.

811
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 8: And she wasn't even looking at me.

812
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 6: She just drive me.

813
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 8: She said, I'm very disappointed. And my mother's relationship with

814
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 8: you wasn't no talking. It was just she talked and

815
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 8: I just listened, and I felt horrible. And she said,

816
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 8: why did you disappoint me like that? You told me

817
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 8: you promised you better keep your word as a man.

818
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 8: Why did you tell me that? And I said, they laugh.

819
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 6: At me, mam.

820
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 8: She said, cool, said everybody unesder Eddie Charles everybody. Why

821
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 8: they said, because it don't sound like a bass And

822
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:31,439
Speaker 8: she didn't say nothing else. That next Saturday, we ended

823
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 8: up going to Oakland Mall Grenelle's music and we were

824
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 8: in there and so she was playing the piano like

825
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 8: she was playing the piano, and she said, which one

826
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 8: of them bases is better. And I picked up this

827
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 8: univox and I said, well this one is, man, it's

828
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 8: one hundred and eighty dollars, because at that point you

829
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 8: could tell how much your base about how much it

830
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 8: costs one hundred eighty dollars from twenty five dollars is

831
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 8: a night you got a good base, you know. I

832
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 8: was sitting there, man, and I was playing it, and

833
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 8: then she said, okay, wrap that up. I'm gonna take

834
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 8: it for him. And the salesman became the salesman. He said, ma'am,

835
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 8: this boy got talent. If you want him to be

836
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 8: the best, you gotta get him the best. And I'm

837
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 8: telling the dude, and shut up. My mother's on the yes,

838
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,280
Speaker 8: pack this thing up and get the heck out of here.

839
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 8: He said, let me show you what it is. This

840
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 8: boy's got talent.

841
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 6: He rolled.

842
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 8: He pulled this fender out of the front, the same

843
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 8: one that a w B had, the same blind fender precision,

844
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 8: And did we know about man, that's my dude, that's

845
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 8: my dude.

846
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 4: You're my man.

847
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 8: Oh God, Okay, sitting there, I'm in there and I'm

848
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 8: asking can we play? I said, we're gonna get this

849
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 8: one but can I just leave play it and me?

850
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 8: We went through this rich. We said, take off your coat,

851
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,919
Speaker 8: almost like Moses, take off thy shoes from on my feet,

852
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 8: take off thy.

853
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 6: He made sure he put a towel.

854
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 8: On me, and he put the base down and I

855
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 8: plugged it into that amp that the Unifox had.

856
00:45:57,920 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 6: He said, oh no, no, no.

857
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 8: No, you do this fright, and he pushed this big

858
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 8: red custom eight foot over it and turned it up.

859
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 6: And the first thing I did was bom do doon

860
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 6: bone do don't don't out.

861
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 1: And it was cool.

862
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 8: So smooth, and all of a sudden, I'm playing everything

863
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 8: I said, I may not get a chance to play

864
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 8: this no more. So I played skin tight, I played

865
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 8: I'll take You Man, I played fire, I played everything

866
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 8: I could possibly play. Next thing, you know, there was

867
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 8: a crowd in front of Grenell's brother saying, look at

868
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 8: that boy, that boy in there playing that bass like that.

869
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 8: And my mother looked at it and she said, they said,

870
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 8: we can do a payment plan, thirty dollars a month.

871
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 8: He deserves this, he'll be good. And she put her

872
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 8: head down just like this because she didn't have that

873
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 8: kind of money, and she said, wrap it up. I

874
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 8: better na see this under the bed, I said, I

875
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 8: promise you you'll never see it under the bed.

876
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 6: Now that base retired. My mother side of it, All of.

877
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 8: This stuff you see here, all of this every time

878
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 8: you see me on soulfire, every time you see me anywhere.

879
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 8: It was because she took a chance on a four

880
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 8: hundred and thirty dollars fender base and she didn't have

881
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 8: the money. She probably ended up paying eighteen hundred dollars,

882
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 8: but it paid for everything that you see me by.

883
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 8: She invested in me. She invested in me, and that

884
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 8: was what it was. And I played that thing in

885
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 8: the ground. Being young, I didn't know anything about. I

886
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 8: couldn't afford to take it to go and get calibrated.

887
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 8: So I just changed the streams. And you know how

888
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 8: we had to ball the strings to get that pop back.

889
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 8: You know what I mean, what boil them?

890
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 6: You will put on.

891
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 4: Explain that process to me.

892
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 6: So here's the thing I ended up.

893
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 8: I could buy like, I could save up enough money

894
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 8: to buy strings, uh maybe once every five to six months.

895
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 8: So I bought these dear Dairya lights. So you know

896
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 8: they get all craddy and stuff. They start sounding dull well,

897
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 8: we learned that if you take them off the base,

898
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 8: round them up, put them in hot, boiling water for

899
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 8: about seven to ten minutes, you pull them back off

900
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 8: and they fresh and you get that same bank right

901
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 8: back again. So we were boiling strings. We would never

902
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 8: buy none. That's good style, good stuff.

903
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 2: Hey, Fred, did you play that on victory?

904
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 6: Victory?

905
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 8: I played enough by that time I was able to

906
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 8: buy another base, another finger, because that base got me fired.

907
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:56,439
Speaker 8: That That was literally after the Thomas Whitfield session. He said, man,

908
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 8: you're a good player, but you you got to keep

909
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 8: up with your axe and you just gotta I gotta

910
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 8: have somebody to play. And at that point Leonard Kern

911
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 8: had this Gibson and it was it was solid. So

912
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 8: I lost the gig, but he let me play the

913
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 8: least those two songs. And you know what it was.

914
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 8: It was an Ibanaz. I went and bought an Ibanaz

915
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 8: and that's the one that's on victory. That's the one

916
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 8: on victory. Yep, do you still have that original bass?

917
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 8: Just for prosperity sake? Or I couldn't thin, but I

918
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 8: went and bought one, just like just to remind me.

919
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 8: I went and bought one just not now. It's crazy.

920
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 8: I don't play much no more because of my arthritis,

921
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 8: and I'm just older. And so I got a lot

922
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,919
Speaker 8: of young cats to play with me. Now I ended

923
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 8: up getting my own base line through basse mind oh

924
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 8: and everything all that, and so I got about five

925
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 8: of them, and I'm like, man, you wait till I

926
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 8: can't play to give me this.

927
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 5: Didn't get to see that Dishy Fred never got dam.

928
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 4: But you know she's watching the spirit we need.

929
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 3: Can you please tell me as as much as you

930
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 3: feel comfortable with revealing what's under the hood, I want

931
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 3: to know what is it to tour on the gospel circuit?

932
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 3: First of all, to get to get the pole position

933
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 3: of being the go to guy to play these gigs.

934
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 4: But then let's.

935
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 3: Say I'm growing up with you in Detroit and I

936
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 3: play drums and you play bass. You mentioned the lines,

937
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 3: but I mean, I'm certain that you've done other gigs beforehand,

938
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 3: like when do you start? When do they When did

939
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 3: they really start taking you serious? As in friends my

940
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 3: go to like at what year are you the man?

941
00:50:59,239 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 6: You know? In?

942
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 8: Never happened like that for me because I went straight

943
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 8: from the winers straight to commission and with Commission, I

944
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 8: dedicated every waking moment. I dedicated every waking moment to

945
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 8: making sure that group did what we needed to do.

946
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 8: I will tell you this story that I got fired

947
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 8: off of a Commission off of a Tremaine Hawkins tour.

948
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 8: That was my first tour that I was the go

949
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 8: to guy. Man, I'm trying to think it was. It

950
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 8: was probably I was out of school, so it could

951
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 8: have been like it was coming out of the winings.

952
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 8: So it's probably eighty three, right, her first real solo album.

953
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 6: But look at Me Crisis at Me three album, that album.

954
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 8: I got fired off that gig. And it was funny

955
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 8: because Michael Wright was was one of my best friends.

956
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,720
Speaker 8: Michael Williams is one of my best friends. Michael Williams

957
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 8: is the drummer. He's a drummer for Commission, and Michael

958
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 8: Wright was a guitar player. He was supposed to be

959
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:04,280
Speaker 8: the seventh of Commission and they Jeff in the Valley

960
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 8: was putting together a.

961
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,240
Speaker 6: Group uh to go out and play for Tremain.

962
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,800
Speaker 8: So me and Michael bass player lead and then drummer,

963
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 8: and everything was fine and we were rehearsed. We were

964
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 8: shed in the basement, and I always sang the middle

965
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 8: and Mike sang the top.

966
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 6: And that's just the way it was.

967
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 8: The night we got to Jeff to come in and

968
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 8: do the audition, like, let's let's start practicing. My Mike

969
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 8: froze and he started singing the middle. Now in my head,

970
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 8: I couldn't make that transition bass wise and singing, so

971
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 8: I had to shed. And once I learned my part,

972
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 8: I'm good. But it's not like, oh, let me switch

973
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 8: to this Bible, let me sing this party.

974
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:48,439
Speaker 6: It was like, this is my part.

975
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,479
Speaker 8: I can rock this and I can sing this part song. Well,

976
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 8: he sang my part and he froze, and I'll never forget,

977
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 8: I said to him. We stopped and said, yo, Mike,

978
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 8: I sing in the middle. He looked right back at

979
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 8: me and said, no, I sing in the middle. And

980
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 8: I'm like, oh. He had a situation here, and Jeff

981
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 8: Lavalley was looking like this, somebody sing something, and so

982
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 8: I said, well, let me solvage the situation because he's

983
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 8: my boy. I'll try to sing this top. I'll just

984
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 8: learn it. And as I was doing it, I was struggling,

985
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 8: and so Jeff said, you know what, let's just come

986
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,479
Speaker 8: back tomorrow. Well, when I came back the next day,

987
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 8: they had somebody sitting in the car, and the manager

988
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 8: came and said, we have a problem, and we seemed

989
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 8: to be a problem.

990
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 6: That's the problem.

991
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 8: And they said, well, I said, well, we kind of

992
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 8: learned kind of the same part, and they said, go

993
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 8: get Jonathan right quick, and coming down the steps, Jonathan Dubos.

994
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 6: Walking down the steps.

995
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 8: He come walking down the steps and Mike Wright, who's

996
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 8: the guitar player, said, oh man, I'm fired. And he

997
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 8: literally he literally started packing up his guitar and they

998
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 8: said no, no, no, no no.

999
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 6: They said, Fred, can you use your base? And they

1000
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 6: all they rehearsed right in.

1001
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 8: Front of me, and they said, Fred, I'm sorry, Unfortunately

1002
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:10,879
Speaker 8: we're not gonna be able to use you all this time.

1003
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 3: And they couldn't just take three hours so you can

1004
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 3: relearn your harmony parts or whatever.

1005
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 8: They told me to go home and learn it, and

1006
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 8: they gave me a knight and I went home and

1007
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,280
Speaker 8: I learned it. And when I went back, Gloria Hawkins

1008
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 8: was there, Jeff le Valley was there, and Jonathan was

1009
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,760
Speaker 8: standing there. They were just there and I can't imagine

1010
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 8: Jonathan came in yet, but I know it was doubt

1011
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,760
Speaker 8: and the pressure hit me so hard and I started

1012
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 8: playing and I was singing a note that I could

1013
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 8: not sing, and I just remember stopping and put my

1014
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 8: head down and I wasn't gonna rap for my boy.

1015
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 6: This is kind of the first time I sold. It

1016
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 6: was his fault.

1017
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 4: I don't care now.

1018
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 8: I sat through the whole rehearsal while Jonathan Dubo's.

1019
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 4: Practiced on my wow man.

1020
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 6: And I tell.

1021
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 8: Everybody one of the reasons why probably I am decently

1022
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 8: successful is because I never carried bitterness towards anyone.

1023
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 3: Isn't Detroit a little bit too small for like you're

1024
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 3: seeing these people every day like.

1025
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,399
Speaker 6: We were still boys.

1026
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 8: We never you know, you don't rat your boy out,

1027
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 8: And that's just what it was. And it was unspoken

1028
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 8: at that time that that's what the problem was. And

1029
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 8: I never I never ratted him out. And I just

1030
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 8: it was crazy too, because they toured for about a

1031
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 8: year to two years and I was broken.

1032
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 4: I was broken, See James, we were rated each other out.

1033
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 6: Man.

1034
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 8: My best friend was Michael Williams as well, the drummer

1035
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 8: for Commission, and he has no filter, so he would

1036
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 8: come back, just tell yeah, we just came from Amsterdam.

1037
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 6: Man.

1038
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 8: Man, let me tell you something, man, just that I

1039
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 8: just bought this, that we did that, and I just

1040
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 8: I sat there and I just I just took it.

1041
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 6: You know.

1042
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:07,919
Speaker 4: So what did you wind up doing?

1043
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 6: Like?

1044
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:08,919
Speaker 4: Did you take that ass?

1045
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 6: Like?

1046
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 4: Okay, I got a shed even harder.

1047
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, I've said I'm I'm never gonna let that

1048
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,320
Speaker 8: happen to me again. But what I did was I

1049
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 8: focused deep on getting commissioned together because we had to

1050
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 8: learn managers. We had to try to find managers. We

1051
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 8: didn't have the easy role man. People thought that commission

1052
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 8: was signed and somebody saw us man.

1053
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 6: We spent. We raised thirteen.

1054
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 8: Thousand dollars from aunts, uncles, cousins, skating parties, receptions. We

1055
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 8: would put them in a shoe box under my bed

1056
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 8: and go buy studio time. And finally we had a

1057
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 8: finished product and we leased that first record that I'm

1058
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 8: going on It was a lease.

1059
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 6: I'm going on record, yep. Our manager.

1060
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 8: We went to Tys Scott Records and Leonard Scott said,

1061
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 8: I'll sign you guys. We didn't know what to ask for.

1062
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 8: We said, can we just have the money back? To

1063
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 8: pay our parents and our family be He said sure.

1064
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,879
Speaker 8: But then Derek Dirkson, who was the leader of Chapter eight,

1065
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 8: you know, he was the drummer and the leader of Chapter,

1066
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 8: he said, let me manage you.

1067
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 6: Guys.

1068
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 8: You just walked away from the wind and he said,

1069
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:17,919
Speaker 8: let me manage you. And we said okay. He said,

1070
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 8: give me two weeks. I'm gonna take it to Light Records,

1071
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:22,439
Speaker 8: and if they don't come back within two weeks, we'll

1072
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 8: go over the tys. Guy well he called on his relationships.

1073
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 8: He did a lease steal, We put the record out

1074
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 8: and the rest is history. And then we got signed

1075
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 8: the second record all from second record all.

1076
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was just going to ask you about the

1077
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 1: business of that.

1078
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 7: So how did that work in terms of like, do

1079
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 7: you guys own those masters now?

1080
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 1: Was it a deal that they own?

1081
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 7: How was business done in the gospel world as compared

1082
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 7: to the kind of secular music?

1083
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 8: It was done the same same, Jack, I believe we

1084
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 8: own the masters now. Though we do own the masters

1085
00:57:56,120 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 8: now to the first five records, but other than that,

1086
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 8: we just got took so in.

1087
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 3: Your mind and you're saying that the Winings was like

1088
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 3: your first gig before you went with with or your

1089
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 3: biggest gig before you went to forming Commission in your

1090
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:21,439
Speaker 3: mind is the Whinings and doing that circuit as good

1091
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 3: as it gets, like as top as it gets. Is

1092
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 3: there any point where you're like, hey, maybe I should

1093
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 3: go to Los Angeles to become a session musician, or

1094
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 3: are there.

1095
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:37,439
Speaker 4: Any secular acts? Like is Anita Baker in the chapter?

1096
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 3: You know, like are you are your eyes looking elsewhere

1097
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 3: or for for you? It's like, I'm gonna stay in

1098
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 3: the gospel world and the Whinings is.

1099
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 4: As good as it gets to get out there.

1100
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 8: I never looked to do a secular group or play

1101
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 8: in the club or anything else. I really felt like

1102
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 8: I was cold. And this is before I knew my

1103
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 8: birth issues or anything. I honestly felt like I was

1104
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 8: called to gospel music. So the winings was as big

1105
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 8: as it got. It's like, man, I thought I'd be

1106
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 8: paying for them right now at sixty years old.

1107
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 6: I never thought I was gonna leave, and I didn't

1108
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 6: want to leave when I left.

1109
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 8: You know, Honestly, there was a little high coup that

1110
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 8: happened in Commission. He I'm gonna give you all some

1111
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 8: real little son behind the scene, A couple members called

1112
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 8: me with our managers at that time, into a basement

1113
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 8: at twelve o'clock at night and they told me, if

1114
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:37,439
Speaker 8: you don't leave the Winings, we're gonna take this group

1115
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 8: from you. You out here traveling, you out here doing that,

1116
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 8: you can't be no group leader. They didn't have a

1117
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 8: record deal, they didn't have anything, but there was some

1118
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 8: scuttle but that was going on between two members and

1119
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 8: the management and they were literally trying to take the

1120
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 8: group from me. And I said, they said, if you

1121
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 8: don't leave them, we're gonna take this group from me.

1122
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 8: So I had to go back to the Wins and

1123
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 8: I couldn't be no rat, so I couldn't tell them, Man,

1124
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 8: they're making me do this. I had to tell them.

1125
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 8: And then after Chicago, that's my last, that's my last gig.

1126
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 8: I'm going to make commission. And they were so mad. Man,

1127
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 8: they were so mad. They understood there was no no no, no,

1128
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 8: no no, that's what they said.

1129
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 6: But it was because we were family.

1130
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 8: And the last gig we did was with Milton Brunson,

1131
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 8: the Mighty Clouds of Joy, Al Green and a bunch

1132
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 8: of people in Chicago. And I never forget I cried

1133
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 8: like a baby, and in the van they got together

1134
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 8: as brothers and they sang this song to find His Keepers.

1135
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 8: I just remember the hook. They said, farewell friend, we

1136
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 8: love having you.

1137
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 1: What up y'all here? That was part one of our

1138
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: two parts interviews.

1139
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 4: With the legendary bred Hammlin.

1140
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: Y'all stay tuned.

1141
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,919
Speaker 7: Part two is coming up next week, and it gets

1142
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 7: even better right here on QLs.

1143
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 4: Of course. Love Supring Yep Must Love Supreme is a

1144
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 4: production of iHeartRadio.

1145
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1146
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.