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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This is episode number one forty one.

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Speaker 1: Tan the show, we are joined by and talking deer

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Speaker 1: hunting tactics with one of the very lucky few deer

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Speaker 1: hunters who has ever made the cover of North American

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Speaker 1: Whitetail magazine. But this gentleman has actually made it three

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Speaker 1: times with three different and that guy is Sam Calora.

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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to another episode of the Wired to

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Speaker 1: Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sitka Gear. And today

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Speaker 1: in the show, we're joined by a very special guest,

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Speaker 1: Sam Clara. And Sam is someone I've wanted to have

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Speaker 1: on the show for quite a while now, uh for

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Speaker 1: for a number of different reasons. You know, first and foremost,

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Speaker 1: he's a well renowned deer hunter who has killed a

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Speaker 1: lot of really big bucks, including three deer that have

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Speaker 1: scored over two and all three of those deer have

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Speaker 1: been on the cover of North American Whitetail. So that's

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Speaker 1: pretty impressive. But what's also particularly interesting about Sam is

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Speaker 1: that his story one of his stories intersects with that

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Speaker 1: of our very own Dan Johnson, my trusty co host.

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Speaker 1: So some some of you guys might remember this story

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Speaker 1: because we have talked about it a little bit in

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Speaker 1: the past, way in the past, Um, about this hunt

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Speaker 1: that Dan had for a giant buck known as Shipwreck.

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Speaker 1: But but today we're gonna look back on that hunt

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Speaker 1: again and getting that only Dan's perspective, but also Sam's

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Speaker 1: now and then also dig into the stories of some

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Speaker 1: of other Sam's other great big buck kills, some of

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Speaker 1: the things he's learned, some of the fall bosophies and

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Speaker 1: tactics that have led all the success, the success and

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Speaker 1: lots and lots more so. So Dan, all right, are

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Speaker 1: you ready to talk about Shipwreck again? Dude? I'll talk

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Speaker 1: about that, dear anytime. I tell you the The one

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Speaker 1: takeaway from chasing a big, mature buck like that for

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Speaker 1: so many years is that was the buck really that

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Speaker 1: kind of changed the way I started that I hunt,

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Speaker 1: you know, Um. And then you know, we can get

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Speaker 1: into a lot of detail about that some other time,

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Speaker 1: but and I think we already have in some of

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Speaker 1: the past episodes. But it's just it's a buck, buck

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Speaker 1: that you hunt, you never kill, but he leaves you

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Speaker 1: with something and he teaches you something. And that's what

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Speaker 1: I that was my success. You know, I considered that

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Speaker 1: a successful journey as far as hunting that particular buck,

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure, just from knowing what I know,

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Speaker 1: it seems like that, like you said, it's change you

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. It molded you as a

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Speaker 1: deer hunter and m and now here you are today. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately he hangs on someone else's wall. Who'll we'll talk

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Speaker 1: to you here in a few minutes. But that's how

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Speaker 1: it goes. But but real quick before we do get

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Speaker 1: Sam on anything new in the world of Dan Johnson,

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Speaker 1: you know, just husband, father stuff, you know that, uh

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Speaker 1: that cubical life. Can I tell you that I was

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Speaker 1: looking at reviews on iTunes. I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: saw this one have put. Someone left us a one

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Speaker 1: star review and they said if I wanted fathering advice,

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Speaker 1: I'd go somewhere else. So I just laughed. So have

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Speaker 1: I ever tried to give advice on this show? I

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Speaker 1: don't know. If you ever get advice, it might not

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Speaker 1: have been. It might have just been if I want

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Speaker 1: to hear about parenting or fathering or something like that.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember the exact words, but but they gave

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Speaker 1: me a good sorry. I'm sorry to that person that

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Speaker 1: I ruin into your entire day. And they weren't able

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Speaker 1: to take away anything else from this podcast except for

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Speaker 1: the very short amount of time that I actually complain

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Speaker 1: about my own family. Can I tell you what, though,

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Speaker 1: I can relate to you a little bit more today

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Speaker 1: than I could have in the past, because this past

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Speaker 1: Friday and Saturday, we babysitted my sister in law's four kids.

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Speaker 1: So there was a two year old, a three year old,

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Speaker 1: of five year old, and twelve year old. And that

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Speaker 1: was a handful, man, that was real handful. So so

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Speaker 1: I got to give them away at the end of

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Speaker 1: the weekend, right like you. Still, they're not yours forever, mine, forever,

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Speaker 1: my mind or mind forever true. I guess that's a

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Speaker 1: that's that is an important difference. Let's not talk about kids, man,

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Speaker 1: I don't want any more one star reviews. Okay, well

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Speaker 1: do you have anything non kid related? Um? I went

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Speaker 1: on a seven hour shift hunt on Sunday. What are

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Speaker 1: you what do you find? Uh? Well, knocked on a door,

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Speaker 1: picked up a new piece of property. Um, shed hunted it,

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Speaker 1: hunt hunt? Well, I first I shed hunted hunted it.

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Speaker 1: But the guy goes, hey, you know, as far as

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Speaker 1: I know, we don't have any people bow hunting on it.

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Speaker 1: So that's kind of a plus plus for me. And uh,

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Speaker 1: but me and my buddy Ryan, we went out there

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Speaker 1: and we walked it and oh my lord. Uh. You

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Speaker 1: know when you walk into a piece of property, like

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Speaker 1: when you're scouting this time of year, you're shutting and

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Speaker 1: you can't it's hard to look for sheds because you're

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Speaker 1: looking at so many massive rubs that your heads, your

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Speaker 1: head just kind of goes up and starts looking at

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Speaker 1: places for tree stands. It was one of those kinds

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Speaker 1: of spots. Yeah, one of those kind of spots. So um,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't hurt. You know how I always talk about,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you can't get the main piece of property,

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Speaker 1: try to get the property next to it that it

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Speaker 1: maybe looks attractive on a map. Uh. That's exactly what

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Speaker 1: I did. And um, the sign in there, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's nothing but a little finger that pops out of

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Speaker 1: a little creek system. But the neighbors it's all managed

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Speaker 1: and it's you know I got don't. I don't know

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Speaker 1: who the owner is, but you can tell from an

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Speaker 1: aerial map they have food plots and shooting houses and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. So that's awesome, man, that is good news. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I heard you. Uh you went out and got a

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Speaker 1: piece of property too, right, I did. I. Um, what's

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Speaker 1: it like, I says? Last night? Um, I knocked on

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Speaker 1: doors last night. Um. The past week or so, I've

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Speaker 1: been maybe a little longer than I've been driving around

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Speaker 1: in the evenings check out fields, trying to see where

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Speaker 1: all these deer feeding now and kind of pinpoint of

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Speaker 1: handful that I want to try to get permission on.

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Speaker 1: So last night and knocked on the doors for three

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Speaker 1: of them. Um. Two of the places I had to

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Speaker 1: come back to twice because no one was there. On

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Speaker 1: one of them, no one was ever there. The second

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Speaker 1: place they already shed on a hunting so I couldn't

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Speaker 1: get permission there. But the third I did get permission.

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Speaker 1: So uh, I haven't walked it yet, but probably tomorrow

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Speaker 1: the next day I'm gonna go check it out. And

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Speaker 1: this is a piece that is very close to my

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Speaker 1: main Michigan uh spots where you know Holy Field is

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Speaker 1: or was or hopefully is. So, um, I'm hopeful that

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Speaker 1: he that this could be one of the spots where

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Speaker 1: his sheds could be. So I'm excited they'll get permission

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Speaker 1: to check that out. It's it's mostly big crop fields,

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Speaker 1: but there's been a lot of deer feeding in it,

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Speaker 1: and there's some fingers of timber where there could be

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Speaker 1: some deer bedded or you know, hanging out in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the night. So there's there's a chance. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for knocking on doors is pretty good. Yeah, I agree,

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Speaker 1: even you know, she hunting permission is a lot easier

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Speaker 1: than getting deer hunting permission. But but in Michigan, it's

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Speaker 1: all it's all a win. Yeah, so plus your foots

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Speaker 1: in the door. Man, you know I'm a bow hunter.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Oh we don't. I don't think we have

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Speaker 1: a bow hunter on our property, which you know, Michigan,

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Speaker 1: who knows. But you know, for me, I saw some

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Speaker 1: tree stands while I was in this in this piece,

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Speaker 1: but you know, they're all on field edges that looked

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Speaker 1: like places for muzzle loader or you know, other types

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Speaker 1: of stands. So as uh, when Turkey season arrives, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go back to the same house and go, you know,

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Speaker 1: basically start that process of letting them know who I

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Speaker 1: am and what I'm about, that I'm not a terrible person,

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Speaker 1: and that hopefully that all rolls into me creating a

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Speaker 1: relationship with them to get my foot in, you know,

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Speaker 1: to start bow hunting it. Yeah, that's the way to

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Speaker 1: do it. Um, we gotta we gotta end this pretty

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Speaker 1: quick here because Sam's expecting us, but really fast. I'm

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Speaker 1: just curious in your neck of the woods, what have

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Speaker 1: you been hearing from people as far as percentage of

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Speaker 1: antlers that have dropped, a percentage of bucks that have

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Speaker 1: dropped already. Right, So, I had a good conversation with

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Speaker 1: a buddy of mine who's a die hard too, and

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Speaker 1: he says forty are dropped, are dropped. But for me,

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Speaker 1: the trail camera exsures that I've seen and that I've

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Speaker 1: gotten from a couple of other people. Uh, it's less

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Speaker 1: than that. So it's it's still not what what I

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Speaker 1: If I could take it all back, go back in time,

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Speaker 1: I would have saved that seven hour walk for probably

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Speaker 1: this upcoming weekend or the following weekend. Yeah, I've been

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Speaker 1: hearing similar things here and from my buddies in Iowa.

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Speaker 1: I've heard like sixties still holding. Um My, my camera

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Speaker 1: pictures have kind of dried up. Like I mentioned, it's uh,

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Speaker 1: they've they've moved on to better food sources. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know what's going on here, but the well, what

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Speaker 1: I can say is all the time I spent driving

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Speaker 1: around the past week and a half, I've seen hundreds

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Speaker 1: of deer and only one of those is a buck,

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Speaker 1: or only when one of those holding antlers. Um, So,

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Speaker 1: either you know a lot of deer round here have

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Speaker 1: shed or it's just typical Michigan where there's hundreds of

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Speaker 1: doughs and one buck in the whole burn area. So

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Speaker 1: so I don't know about that, but hopefully there's a

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Speaker 1: few antlers on the ground. Will we'll see. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: try to walk this weekend and then the following weekend

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Speaker 1: is the Iowa trip. So that's right, that's right. Excited

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Speaker 1: about that? Yeah, buddy, Well, should we wrap this up

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Speaker 1: and uh give Sam call. Let's get him on the phone,

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Speaker 1: all right, I'm looking forward to this. So we're gonna

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Speaker 1: take a quick break for a word from our partners

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Speaker 1: at sick Gear, and then we'll give Sam call alright,

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Speaker 1: So today I want to give a big thanks and

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Speaker 1: kudos to our partners at Sick of Gear for doing

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Speaker 1: something that Dan and I have been talking a lot

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Speaker 1: about lately, and that's standing up for public land. And

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Speaker 1: this past week, Sick of Gear send out an email

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Speaker 1: to their whole email list, which probably includes tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of people, rallying the Sick Could Tribe to take

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Speaker 1: action in this fight, and I thought their message was

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Speaker 1: just was just spot on. So I thought today I

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Speaker 1: could share a little bit of that email with you

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Speaker 1: because I really really liked what they had to say.

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Speaker 1: So here we go, Sick Could Tribe. Public Lands are

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Speaker 1: at the heart of everything we do as hunters. Public

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Speaker 1: land and wildlife are uniquely American traditions. All of us,

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Speaker 1: regardless of our personal wealth, enjoy the privilege of accessing

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Speaker 1: public land and water to support healthy populations of fish

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Speaker 1: and wildlife. Access to quality public land that supports these

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Speaker 1: opportunities is vital to our livelihood as hunters. We live

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Speaker 1: and breathe public land and water and understand the importance

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Speaker 1: of these places more than anyone else. This is the

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Speaker 1: land that we all own as Americans. It's land that

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Speaker 1: I cherish with my wife and daughters and land that

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Speaker 1: all of our children grandchildren should be able to hunt, explore,

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Speaker 1: and enjoy. Unfortunately, as we have all recently seen, there

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Speaker 1: is a very real effort to diminish and sell our

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Speaker 1: public lands. These efforts will compromise family traditions, our ability

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Speaker 1: to put healthy food on our dinner tables, and the

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Speaker 1: lifestyle that defines us. This public land transfer movement seeks

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Speaker 1: to transfer federal public lands to the states under the

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Speaker 1: promise of greater public control. The reality is the public

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Speaker 1: already owns these lands and transferring them to the state

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Speaker 1: would only increase the likelihood of future privatization. Too many

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Speaker 1: sections of public lands have already been privatized, resulting in

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Speaker 1: little or no access at all. As hunters, we do

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Speaker 1: not want to give up another acre. Under direct pressure

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Speaker 1: from hunters of all stripes, hr SI, which would have

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Speaker 1: sold over three million acres of public land, was finally

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Speaker 1: withdrawn by Representative Jason Chavitz. This is a positive victory,

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Speaker 1: but there are other efforts that threaten our public lands now.

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Speaker 1: The email goes on to explain three specific issues. Hr SIWO,

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Speaker 1: which is another one proposed by Chavits which tries to

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Speaker 1: remove the BLM enforced service law enforce and functions horrible

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Speaker 1: idea organ House build two, three six five which will

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Speaker 1: empower a tax force, a task force to research the

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Speaker 1: benefits of transferring federal public lands. And h J Resolution

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Speaker 1: forty four, which will reverse improvements made to the Bureau

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Speaker 1: of Land Management planning process. These are three specific issues

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Speaker 1: they mentioned here and now will continue reading that email.

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Speaker 1: They say these are only a number of the issues

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Speaker 1: that are a threat to public land access. We can

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Speaker 1: and must take action. We urge you to call your

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Speaker 1: representatives and tell them you oppose HR and HB and

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Speaker 1: support keeping public land in public hands. These are issues

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Speaker 1: that transcend politics and should unite us as sportsmen, women,

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Speaker 1: and children. The diversity of the hunting community is our strength.

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Speaker 1: Politics do not discriminate in the field. We all share

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Speaker 1: in the tradition of public hunting as equals. Additionally, we

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Speaker 1: urge you to join us in supporting the efforts of

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Speaker 1: back country hunters and anglers, Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, the

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Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, and our other conservation partners who

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Speaker 1: are driving the public lands agenda. Become a member and

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Speaker 1: support organizations that are making a difference. United with these

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Speaker 1: conservation champions, we can send a strong message to legislators

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Speaker 1: that the hunting community will not allow the sale of

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Speaker 1: our legacy public lands are vital to our lifestyle and

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Speaker 1: the future of hunting. Now, that is an awesome message

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Speaker 1: right there. That's the end of the email, and it's

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Speaker 1: one that I'm so proud to see come from one

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Speaker 1: of our great partners at sick cad Gear. And if

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Speaker 1: you'd like to learn more about SIKA, I'd highly encourage

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Speaker 1: you to head over to sick good gear dot com

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Speaker 1: check it out. And now let's get back to business

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Speaker 1: and get Sam on the show, all right with us.

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Speaker 1: Now on the line is Sam Clara. Welcome to the show. Sam,

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, we we appreciate you joining us, and

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Speaker 1: we've actually talked about you a decent bit over the

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Speaker 1: past couple of years because of your relationship with Dan,

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Speaker 1: but but for a long time I want to bring

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Speaker 1: you on here and just talk to ourselves. So that said, though,

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Speaker 1: for those in the audience who aren't familiar with you,

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Speaker 1: can you just give us a little background into who

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Speaker 1: you are. I got here cutting your background and hunting

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Speaker 1: in your business related to deer. Uh you sure, I've

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Speaker 1: been hunting all my life. Thirty years ago this spring

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Speaker 1: I started raising white tailed deer and I don't I

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Speaker 1: had them about a year and a half and and

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Speaker 1: we started collecting urine and we've we've started a company

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Speaker 1: called Mrs Dopees Buckler and we've been collecting urine and

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Speaker 1: selling premiere quality lures every since. And and you're also

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Speaker 1: running a sporting goods store there too, right? Is that

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Speaker 1: is that okay? Still? Yeah, we've got a little archery shop,

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Speaker 1: a little archery and hunting shop that it goes along

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Speaker 1: with that. It's kind of a sideline to the to

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Speaker 1: the buck lure. But but it's uh, it's a neat

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Speaker 1: little business. Yeah, bet So what about hunting? How did

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Speaker 1: you get into chasing deer and now chasing some of

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Speaker 1: these world class dear? You know, my uncle gave me

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Speaker 1: a set of shed antlers when I was eight years old,

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Speaker 1: and I've always said that he was the one that

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Speaker 1: started this curse because I was antler crazy every since.

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Speaker 1: I love deer, I love antlers, uh, just everything about him.

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Speaker 1: It's it's it's been quite a quite a run. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think me and Dan can relate a lot of

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Speaker 1: us can relate it. When did you so, do you

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Speaker 1: start you started deer hunting at a young age or

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Speaker 1: did you did you get serious about later on? Or

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Speaker 1: when when I was young, we really didn't have any

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Speaker 1: deer in this area. Uh. I can remember seeing the

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Speaker 1: first the first three deer I saw. I was probably

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Speaker 1: twelve years old and a buddy of mine's mom was

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Speaker 1: taking us to a to a farm pond to go fishing.

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Speaker 1: And we went back to town and told everybody was

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Speaker 1: everybody we knew that we saw a deer. I mean

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Speaker 1: that was a really really big deal. Back as as

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Speaker 1: I got older and the deer started to you know,

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Speaker 1: to prosper and do well and and propagate, we you know,

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Speaker 1: we we started hunting and the rest is history. I

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Speaker 1: guess what year was that, Sam? When when you were

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Speaker 1: you know, when when deer start finally started to I

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Speaker 1: get start making a presence in Iowa. I was probably

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Speaker 1: eighth grade, two freshmen in high school, so uh, sixty

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Speaker 1: three sixty five right in there is when we really

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Speaker 1: started seeing dear. Okay, and then and then I'm curious

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Speaker 1: now that invention that Dan, Now I'm curious when or

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Speaker 1: what was the quality of the deer herd like back then,

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Speaker 1: I mean right out the gate where when you start

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Speaker 1: seeing a lot of deer. Was it all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden and lots of these big, mature deer or did

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Speaker 1: that not start happen until later in the seventies or eighties,

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Speaker 1: or when did we start seeing the Iowa that we

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Speaker 1: know now? You know they it wasn't that far into

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Speaker 1: it that that there was some really nice deer shot

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Speaker 1: and seeing. Uh, we pretty much have everything here we

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Speaker 1: need as as far as you know, to produce really

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Speaker 1: good deer. It's just a matter of getting enough deer

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Speaker 1: out there to get some age on them to to

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Speaker 1: really you know, show the you know, show the size

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Speaker 1: of the deer. Yeah. What are those things that you

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Speaker 1: that you're referring to that you think, you know, help

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Speaker 1: Iowa produce the quality deer they do. What are those factors? Well?

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Speaker 1: I think a big part of it is is we

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Speaker 1: don't gun hunt during the rut. I think that's a

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Speaker 1: huge part of it because that allows some animals to

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Speaker 1: get some age on them. Uh. We have a good

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Speaker 1: amount of cover, but we have tremendous agriculture, Uh, mineral

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Speaker 1: content is really good. There's a lot of calcium and

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Speaker 1: you know, just all all of the above. H then

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Speaker 1: the genetics are good. I mean, it's just every everything

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Speaker 1: we have going here in Iowa for for growing big

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Speaker 1: deer is it's a win win. Yeah, it sure seems

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Speaker 1: like if from everything Dan tells me about the good

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Speaker 1: times he has out there, you guys have got a

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Speaker 1: good situation. So, Sam, there's a lot of want to

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Speaker 1: cover on our conversation here, because you've obviously had a

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Speaker 1: lot of interesting experiences hunting and killing deer out there. Um.

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Speaker 1: But but one hunt in one story in particular, it

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Speaker 1: is kind of where I wanted to start because it's

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Speaker 1: it's this interesting intersection between your hunting past and my

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Speaker 1: buddy Dan's here um, And it's kind of a cool

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Speaker 1: opportunity that we have you both here to talk about

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Speaker 1: this story for this deer known as Shipwreck. So so

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Speaker 1: I thought we could maybe start there and maybe Dan,

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Speaker 1: Um and you get you guys can tell me how

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Speaker 1: you want to tell this story. Maybe you guys don't

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Speaker 1: understand the timeline better than I do, but but I

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Speaker 1: think the story starts with you Dan, and maybe do

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Speaker 1: you want to set the stage here and tell us

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Speaker 1: maybe an abbreviated version of your side of the story,

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Speaker 1: and then we can jump over to Sam and hear

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Speaker 1: the parallel side on on your end. Yeah sure, I mean, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's been a while now, but we used to hunt

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Speaker 1: in an area where our property we're close to one another,

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Speaker 1: and and my first year in this property, I saw

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Speaker 1: a lot of good deer coming out of a portion

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Speaker 1: of this property that was kind of between the two

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Speaker 1: and uh, one day a giant white tail just popped out,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I mean it was shipwreck. And that's kind

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Speaker 1: of the abbreviated version of a five year story that

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Speaker 1: I can I had from with this buck. You know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, that's all you're gonna tell us is

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Speaker 1: that this big buck popped out. Well, I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, like like I said in the in the intro,

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Speaker 1: it was it was my very first encounter with a

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Speaker 1: buck of that caliber, and it's it changed the way

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Speaker 1: I hunt to this day. Being able to experience this buck,

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Speaker 1: learning from his movement, learning you know, the times of year,

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Speaker 1: he moved, the wind direction, and just you know, basically

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Speaker 1: observing a specimen like him kind of gave me an education.

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Speaker 1: And you know it he was, you know, I I

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Speaker 1: believe he was probably working both properties for you know,

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Speaker 1: but probably closer to where I was hunting. And then

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Speaker 1: you know, later on on his life, he probably started

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Speaker 1: moving down to where where Sam was hunting, and that's

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Speaker 1: where the intersection kind of takes place. Yea. Now it's

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Speaker 1: been probably two years or so since we actually went

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Speaker 1: through the detailed story of like all your encounters with him.

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Speaker 1: Can you walk us through just I mean, for because

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Speaker 1: there's probably a lot of listeners that are new that

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Speaker 1: missed that episode number thirty or whatever it was that

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Speaker 1: we went through, you know, the timeline a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Can you just give us a little bit better idea,

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Speaker 1: you know, because this was how many years this go

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Speaker 1: over the course of and I mean, weren't there encounters

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Speaker 1: for three or four years or something where your close

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Speaker 1: calls or you spent your whole season, you know, focused

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Speaker 1: on him? Yeah? I think, Uh, man, Sam, what year

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Speaker 1: did you end up harvesting him? Oh? It would have been,

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Speaker 1: uh two thousand and eleven, was it? Because it was

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Speaker 1: five well no, it was eleven, okay, five years ago. Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I think my very first encounter with him was

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Speaker 1: in two thousand seven, and um, you know, he he

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Speaker 1: had a very small core area. I feel as far

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Speaker 1: as I know, he would make trips outside of that

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Speaker 1: every once in a while, but for the most part,

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Speaker 1: he lived in a very small core area and his

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Speaker 1: his movement was very limited to a very small portion

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Speaker 1: of of the farm that he lived on. So you

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Speaker 1: saw him two thousand seven, yea, stall him in two

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Speaker 1: thousand seven, didn't see him in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: Solomon two thousand nine. I shot him but didn't kill

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Speaker 1: him in two thousand in and then Sam Harmon harvested

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Speaker 1: him in two thousand and uh eleven, two thousand nine.

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Speaker 1: Actually I saw him multiple times, gotcha, and and it

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Speaker 1: was two Well when did the obsession begin? Like, when

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Speaker 1: did you start like completely focusing on this deer? Was

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Speaker 1: that chose nine or ten? It has been two thousand

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Speaker 1: nine because I had um that's when I started running

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Speaker 1: trail cameras. That's when I started having all the encounters

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Speaker 1: with him. That's when I started losing sleep over this buck. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So then, Sam, when did when did shipwreck enter your life?

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Speaker 1: When did you first see him? The first time I

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Speaker 1: saw Yeah, it was the day I killed him. Was

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Speaker 1: it really you see that? Set back up a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Let me back up just a little bit. I have

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Speaker 1: a set of ships from that deer when he was

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Speaker 1: seven and half years old. I killed him at nine

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Speaker 1: and a half years old. So we knew he was

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Speaker 1: living there. We knew he was, you know, on the property.

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Speaker 1: I had never seen that deer as an adult deer

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Speaker 1: at the time. I really didn't run any trail cameras.

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Speaker 1: I just hunt. Uh. Anyway, he he. I went in

430
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: there that night with a with a donastrous drag rag

431
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: and did it. I've kind of kind of prescribed way

432
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: that I used it. Anyway, he was. He was the

433
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 1: fourth buck to come in that night on that drag rag. Wow.

434
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: So so what day of the of the month or

435
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: year was this, and can you tell us what you

436
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 1: how you specifically use that rag that drag rag. Yeah,

437
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: it was. It was the eighteenth of October, and it

438
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: was the first time I had a favorable win what

439
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: I thought thought was favorable for where I wanted to.

440
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: I wanted to and and I actually went in there

441
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: looking for that deer. But it was the first day

442
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: of the season that I had a favorable wind. Uh,

443
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 1: temperatures dropped and got cool and just kind of drizzly

444
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: and damp and dank, and and it was it was

445
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 1: just perfect, and the wind was out of the right direction.

446
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: And I went in and pulled the drag rag and

447
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: and here he came. What did you so when you

448
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 1: saw him walking in? Did you know who it was?

449
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: Right away? It was that buck from the sheds? Will

450
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: I will never ever forget as long as I live.

451
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: I I watched and Dan remember how his front or

452
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: at the end of his main beams tipped up? Ye

453
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 1: hook hook clear up. I saw that hook coming from

454
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: behind a tree. And I went on and I thought

455
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: to myself, well, there's a little shipwreck. I probably ought

456
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: to kill him, so so I will never forget it.

457
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: I can't. I can imagine. Now, did did you know

458
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 1: other than the sheds? Did you know that other people

459
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: like Dan or some of the other hunters around there

460
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 1: had been seeing him? Because I remember, there's there's a

461
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: I think there's a handful of you guys that had

462
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: been seeing this deer? Is that is that right? And

463
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: this is this is a win win deal. You know,

464
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: Dan and I are hunting properties, you know, Jason to

465
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: each other and nice and close, and when he shot

466
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: him in two thousand ten, he came and asked my

467
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 1: permission to walk across the property if he could trailing through,

468
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: and I told him he had blood going through, to

469
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 1: grab his bone and go kill him. Anyway. He came

470
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: back and told me later that he didn't find him

471
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: and he didn't go in the property because there was

472
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: no blood going in, and which which I appreciated because

473
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: he wasn't and they're just pushing mine out anyway. Uh,

474
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: this is this, This is a win win deal because

475
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: you've got two guys hunting a great, big deer on

476
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: you know, properties, right beside each other, and we're still friends. Yeah,

477
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: that's a big, big deal. Yeah, this said, how often

478
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: that kind of thing ruins relationships when people let a

479
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: big deer get in the way and cloud things like

480
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 1: that happens way too often. I think, Yeah, the thing

481
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: that was kind was really I didn't I didn't quite

482
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: get at first. When when Dan came back and told

483
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: me he didn't find him, he stood there for the

484
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: longest time and looked at me, and I went, oh, damn,

485
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: that said five find him later. I'll give him to

486
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: these yours. You shot but he was giving me his

487
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: look It's like I'm I'm what's going on here? That

488
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: I finally figured out, like, yeah, he's yours. Well that

489
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: was I was probably in some form of shock because

490
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: it was the biggest buck I ever had an encounter with. Yeah,

491
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: you were, You were in bad shape, buddy, Torah. So

492
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: so you said that you're going into that spot on

493
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: that night for shipwreck. Um, what what made that spot

494
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: so good? And why did you think that'd be a

495
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: spot you could kill shipwreck on that day? We we

496
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: have a little bluff over the river and it's it's

497
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 1: kind of the funnel of the river bluff for miles

498
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: either direction. And if you go in there right and

499
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 1: and hit the ridgeline, a lot of times the bucks

500
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: will come in there and sent check the whole thing.

501
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: And and I worked that ridgeline. But but there's a

502
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 1: bedding area that's been there, and like I said, we've

503
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: hunded this area for for thirty years, and there's an

504
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: area in there. There was a betting area that was

505
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: really good, thick seaters and brushy, and they they would

506
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: go in and bed they're always anyway, it got to

507
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: where it canopied the trees canopied over it, and it

508
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: was starting to thin out. And a couple of years

509
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: previous to this, I went in there and hingecut uh,

510
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: probably a core of an anchor and where that old

511
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: betting area was, and I hinged cut a bunch of

512
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: trees and it just got thick and nasty and and

513
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: I worked around that, across the ridge line and around

514
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: that heading area with that drag rag and got into

515
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: where my wind was perfect, and and that's where he

516
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: that's where he came in. I killed me. Well, when

517
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: when you shot him? Yeah, tell me, I guess, tell me,

518
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: tell me what happened after that was an easy. Recovery

519
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: was a tough one. How did all that go? And

520
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: then I'm kind of curious about how then you told

521
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: Danna how Dan found out how that whole thing went down. Yeah,

522
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: the recovery was was really easy. I I shot him. Actually.

523
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: The first thing I do want to get in the

524
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: tree stand always is to check my equipment and make

525
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: sure everything's good. And the second thing I do, and

526
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: I don't care if I've been in the tree a

527
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: thousand times or once, I always try to check the

528
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: area i'm in to look for the worst possible shot. Well,

529
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: and this this case, I had a blowdown that the

530
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: top of a tree. It blow him down, and and

531
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: I didn't know it since the last time I was

532
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: in the stand. Anyway, there was I was looking for

533
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: a hole to shoot through and I found it. I

534
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: found actually a couple holes, and I thought, well, if

535
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: a deer came through the back side of that, you

536
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: could probably slide an arrow through there. And sure enough

537
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: he came in on the rag and then he turned

538
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: and came on the back side of that blowdown, and

539
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: I remember thinking he's gonna step right into that. And

540
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: when I was thinking whole you know, the boat went

541
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: off and the arrow went through him stuck in the ground.

542
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: And he turned to my left, jumped a little ravine

543
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: and then started uphill, and I mean he was he

544
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: was pouring the coals to it. And I roared at him.

545
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: I did a buck grunt roar uh really really loud.

546
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: And anyway, when I did, he I think he thought

547
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: another bucket stuck in because he came to a stop

548
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: like a cutting horse, I mean just slid to a

549
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: stop and me and he turned and he looked right

550
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: at me and he tipped over. Wow. Is that something

551
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: you've done in the past to stop a buck when

552
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: he's running off and has seen that work more often? Yeah,

553
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: I've done it, done it a lot of times. They will,

554
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: they react well to it. Wow, that is really interesting.

555
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: I've never heard that mentioned to do with white tails.

556
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: I've seen people do that and heard people do that

557
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: with elk. You know, you start cal calling after studing

558
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: an elk, and lots of times i'll stop, But I

559
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: never heard about that for white tails. That's a it's

560
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: a really interesting idea. I was with a guy in

561
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: New Mexico and I had shot a bow elk with

562
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: a bow and it was running towards a ravine and

563
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: if it would have dropped in there, we had to

564
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: take a skill of them there and ate it. You'd

565
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: never got a fount anyway. He he did that, he

566
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: he cal called, and it stopped right at the edge

567
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: of that that drop off, turned around and looked at

568
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: us and dropped it over. When we pulled a pick

569
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: up up to him and loaded it. Wow, that's crazy.

570
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: That happened with shipwreck. That's that's really interesting. So he

571
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: tips over, Um, did you do? What was your I'm

572
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: sure you were like rewind here a second. I've got

573
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: ten thousand questions in my mind. I want to ask.

574
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: I'm first curious, when you saw that buck coming and

575
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: you're getting ready to shoot him, did you do you

576
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: still get some kind of buck fever? Do you still

577
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: get nervous when a comes in front of you? Or

578
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: have you seen so many big deer and killed so

579
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: many big deer? It's just going about your business, you know.

580
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: I I'm I'm solving as rock and I don't have

581
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: any problem at all until I release the arrow. I mean,

582
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: I'm I'm solid. There's there's no problem, there's no jitters,

583
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: there's nothing. But when I release that arrow, just turned

584
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: to garbage. And I did, and I still get that

585
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: that adrenaline dump that that is just it is so unbelievable.

586
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: Is that something saying that you've had to learn how

587
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: to um deal with over your course of hunting, or

588
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: is that something that you know basically comes with Hey,

589
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: I've been there before, I've been around big deer. You're

590
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: experienced in that in that type of scenario. Or is

591
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: it something that you've always been rock solid from day one? Now,

592
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: I I wouldn't say I've always been that way um,

593
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: I always keep it together, but I used to get

594
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: more more fluttered, you know, before I dropped the arrow.

595
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's yeah, I'm I'm good until the you know,

596
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: until I pull the pull the trigger on the release,

597
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: and then it's just. My son and I sat in

598
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: a blind together this fall. We had two deer, the

599
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: one our hit list, and I killed the first one

600
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: latent or late muzzloader. Was the first day of late

601
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: Muslims season. I just could not get together with him

602
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: with a bow. Anyway, I killed the first one, and

603
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: in a week later, I'm sitting in a blind with

604
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: my son and I've got a bow because I haven't

605
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: filled my bow tag yet, and he's got a gun

606
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: and he's not wanting me there because the big deer

607
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: comes in. He wants to shoot him, right, So he

608
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: tells me this isn't right. You've already shot at here.

609
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: And I said, well, if he comes in close enough,

610
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 1: if he comes in close enough for bow, I'm gonna

611
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: shoot him. And anyway, we talked about it, and and

612
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: I was getting sick, I had I was getting the flu,

613
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: and I was a key all over, and I didn't

614
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: want to sit in a tree stand because it was

615
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: like twenty degrees and a twenty five wind, And so

616
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: I went in to blind with him, and I said,

617
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: what are the odds of us seeing that we neither

618
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: one of us have got in this buck within range

619
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: all season? What are the odds he's gonna come in

620
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: here tonight with both of us here. Well he did,

621
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: and he turned and came almost. I mean he was turned,

622
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: coming right square in front of the blind, and I

623
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: had the bow in the window, hooked up and and

624
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: I was ready to shoot. And he veered off and

625
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 1: went away. And anyway, I stepped out of the window

626
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: and I said, get on him. And anyway, my son

627
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: ends up shooting this year. We watched him run into

628
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: the timber well. I went to lay my bow down

629
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: in the blind and I went I turned around and

630
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: looked at and says, okay, so you shot this deer.

631
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: How come I'm shaking? And I was shaking like a leaf.

632
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: But I guess being in the window and having the

633
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: bow ready and and yeah, but but I never did

634
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: it till after after he shot. So it was kinda fun.

635
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: It's good to know that feeling doesn't go away. That's

636
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: what it's all about. It is still exciting. Yeah, So

637
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: after you shot Shipwreck, Um, when did when did Dan

638
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: find out? How did how did Dan find out? What?

639
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: What was all that about? Uh? Dan at the time

640
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: was was with White Knuckle Productions and he and he

641
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: and Todd were doing their videos together. Anyway, I knew

642
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: that they had a series of videos back I'd watched

643
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 1: I'd watched the videos of this big Buck, and I

644
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: knew that they had an ongoing relationship with this deer

645
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: and and Dan was obsessed with him. And anyway, so

646
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: I called Todd and told him that that I had

647
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,919
Speaker 1: good news and bad news. I said that the good

648
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: news is is is uh. I said, the bad news

649
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: is shipwreck got shot tonight. And I said the good

650
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: news is I did it. And he said I've got him.

651
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: And anyway, I said, I know you guys need closure

652
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: for your videos. So if you want to bring your

653
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: cameras tomorrow, um, you can, you can finish that off.

654
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: And and he called Dan right away. And then Dan

655
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: called me back right away and told me congratulations. And

656
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: you know what, I liked Dan before that, and I

657
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: like him even better afterwards because he didn't get pouty

658
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: about it. He didn't he didn't uh, didn't have a fit,

659
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: or you cheated or you did something wrong. It was

660
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: it was then you want congratulations, and and he was happy,

661
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: very very happy for me. That's a big deal. That's

662
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: awesome for sure. What do you remember about that moment,

663
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: Dan Paul, It was it's it's hard because when you

664
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: when you obsess over something like that for so long,

665
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 1: and you know, deer hunting is our passion, and you

666
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: come across the deer like that, that's, you know, a

667
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: once in a lifetime for for me, it has been

668
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: so far, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity, had

669
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: a giant, a true two and um. And then when

670
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: that story comes to an end, you're you're happy that

671
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: it's you know way, you're happy that it's over. But

672
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: at the at the same time, you're you're sad because

673
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: that that deer has brought you so much enjoyment, not

674
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: just from hunting it, but you know, sitting down in

675
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: front of a computer looking at maps, you know, trying

676
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: to figure throughout your next next move, playing basically chest

677
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 1: with it. Yeah, I can definitely relate to that. I

678
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: we're gonna say something else, Yeah, And I think I

679
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: think what was it saying, am I that weekend that

680
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 1: because I was, I was at work that whole week.

681
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: So then that weekend or the following week, I I

682
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: came down to the shop and he let me. He

683
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: let me take a look at it and put my

684
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: hands on on shipwrecks rack. And it was to this

685
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 1: day one of still one of the coolest and counter

686
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: like experience. Says We just was just letting Sam, letting

687
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: me hold those antlers and look at them and touch

688
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 1: them for you know, because that buck had had meant

689
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: so much to me, even though I wasn't the guy

690
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: who harvested it, you know what I mean, So that

691
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: it was that was a win for me. Yeah. But

692
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: what you know, we talked earlier about the fact that

693
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: you said he learned a lot from this deer. Did

694
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 1: you learn anything or did you change at all? How

695
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,399
Speaker 1: you I don't want like you obsessed over this deer.

696
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: You we've all done. We've obsessed over deer and then

697
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 1: in this case, somebody else killed it. Did this change

698
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: at all how you view your chase for a specific buck.

699
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: Did it help you, you know, not feel as bad

700
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: or did I don't know what changed for you in

701
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: that regard, you know, just and maybe and maybe Sam

702
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: could talk to this a little bit about how he

703
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: has approached his tenure as a bow hunter. But I

704
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: think a lot of it had to do with, you know,

705
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: me just being too aggressive right off of the bat,

706
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: when the when the hunting season started. Yeah, so just

707
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: from a hunting perspective, that you got too aggressive and

708
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: and that was a big and that makes sense and

709
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: I can see how that might be something you would

710
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: do when you're hunting. So so Sam, what about for you?

711
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 1: Was there anything that you learned after this hunt, through

712
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: this experience hunting shipwreck and finding sheds and everything. Did

713
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: you come out on the other end having learned anything different?

714
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: I don't know that he taught me anything because, like

715
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: I said, I only had one encounter with this deer.

716
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: I didn't even find the She had a buddy of

717
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: mine us here that I bear hunt with from Canada

718
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,240
Speaker 1: and he was here turkey hunting and he found the sheds.

719
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: So I really only had one encounter with with shipwreck. Uh.

720
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 1: And And don't get me wrong, I have a an

721
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: incredible respect for these animals and their abilities and and

722
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: you know, they beat as more than we beat them.

723
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: That's for sure, But I can't really say that, you know,

724
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: Shipwreck taught me anything. Uh, I guess the biggest thing

725
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: I got of course, you know, chilling a great, big

726
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: deer is always always incredible. But I think the biggest

727
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: thing I got out of it was, you know, there's

728
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of really good people out there

729
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: that are in our hunting hunting, and you know, Dan's

730
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 1: one of them. He's he's he's uh, you know, he's

731
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: a tribute to our sport. Well, I think that's pretty accurate,

732
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: right on. So, so Sam, what about some other deer?

733
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: Has there been any other particular deer you can remember

734
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: over the course of your past hunting seasons that you

735
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: can look back on and say that experience taught me

736
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: something or that changed how I hunted. You know, Shipwreck

737
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: was that deer for Dan. Can you remember any kind

738
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: of experience like that for you? You know, yeah, for sure.

739
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: And and it's probably not the deer I've harvested. It's

740
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: probably more than the ones that have beat me, which

741
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: which just a lot of them. Uh. Yeah, there's there's

742
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 1: deer that that I zigged when I should have zagged.

743
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: I pulled a drag rag in one time and I

744
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: made a sharp ninety degree turn and the deer was

745
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: falling in, had his nose to the ground. He was

746
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 1: dog paddling. I mean just he was on it coming

747
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,399
Speaker 1: in and I had turned really sharp and he went

748
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: right off of it, and and I could not get

749
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: him in. And I I swear to god, it was

750
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: the biggest deer I've ever haunted. And I didn't get him.

751
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: He beat me and I beat myself on that one. Wow.

752
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: You know we have we don't talk about using drag

753
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: rags are often. I know you mentioned how you used

754
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: it in the shipwreck case, but can you just walk

755
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: us through high level what the right way in general

756
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 1: is to use one of those, and what your specific

757
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: technique usually you know in general intails. Yeah. The first

758
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: thing is that when when I do a drag rag,

759
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: I always using the Dylan astres and I think that's

760
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: something that one of the things from raising deer and

761
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: living with them, we've figured out that if we use

762
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: dough and astros before the dose in the wild come

763
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: into heat. Just just like shipwreck, I kill him the

764
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: eighteenth of October, so we weren't even close to the

765
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: being in our rut. But the box are capable of

766
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: breeding as soon as they come out of velvet. Uh

767
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: they you know, they actually prior to that are are impotent.

768
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: They have to get their testosterone level up and that's

769
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: what shuts the blood suply off to the antler and

770
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: allows them to become viable and able to breed. So

771
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 1: you go out there with with doan estris early prior

772
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: to the rut. And what I do with a drag

773
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: rag is I will start, First of all, I do

774
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: tons of preparation for my for my scent and scent

775
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: control and boots. You know, the boots don't go to

776
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: the grocery store the game as station. They they're in

777
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: a tote. They get and I get dressed at the

778
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: edge of the timber when I'm going in and the

779
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: boots come out of the tote and I put them on.

780
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: I do cheat a little bit. I wear those boots

781
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: in my deer lot when I'm you know, when I'm

782
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: doing chores and that type of thing, because I've got

783
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: lots of deer sent there. Uh. The other thing that

784
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: I well with the drag rag itself, I'll start out

785
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: pulling the rag. Basically it's just a string with a

786
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: with a cotton rag on it, and I will apply

787
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: a little bit of sent to that rag on the

788
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: way in, and I will continue to add to it

789
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: all the way into the stand. And by doing that,

790
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to get somebody to, you know, slash

791
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 1: a gallon the lure out there to sell a whole

792
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: bunch of it. We start with a few drops, continue

793
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: to add a few drops all the way in, and

794
00:44:55,480 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: what we're doing is showing which direction that deer is traveling,

795
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 1: so the scent gets stronger all the way into your

796
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: stand location. Okay, as you make your final approach to

797
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: your stand, it doesn't matter if you command with a

798
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: wind or side wind, or how you do it, but

799
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: your final approach to the stand needs to be with

800
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: the wind to your back walking into the stand, And

801
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: in doing that, when you're sitting in the tree, you're

802
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: not up there blowing back to the deer. The deer

803
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: scent would be blowing to you final approach to the stand.

804
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: I always always trying to make a little bit of

805
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 1: a hook, and not real sharp, but just a gentle

806
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 1: little hook. So and then put the rag like in

807
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: a little sapling or something, and I want him to

808
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: turn and get his attention away from me. Not look.

809
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: I don't wan him to come in and park stick

810
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: his nose on the rag and look at me and

811
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: the stand. I want him to come around and be

812
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: poured away and paying attention to that rag the other direction.

813
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: And I have done this so many times, I mean

814
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,959
Speaker 1: just over and over and over and had had dear

815
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 1: do exactly what they're supposed to do. Mhm um. You

816
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: mentioned that you're usually gonna start using this type of

817
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: tactic in the pre rut. How far how far past

818
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: that will you continue doing it? Do you do it

819
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: all the way through November through November? Or when do

820
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: you stop using a drag like that? You know, I'll

821
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: use it all season, all the all the way through. Uh.

822
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: And you think about it. You got pre rut, You

823
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: got bucks out looking for does, and they're traveling and

824
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: they're looking and I used the first of October when

825
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: when we open here, uh, bucks are capable breeding like

826
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: the first of September. So the first of October when

827
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: you're out there doing that, they're not going to command

828
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: like they do November one. They're not gonna command crazy,

829
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 1: But a lot of times they'll walk in and do

830
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: exact care what you wanted to do without going blowing through.

831
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: You know, if you if you're hunting the right when

832
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: everything's you know, ram and jamming, and everybody's you know,

833
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: going her mile hour, it's much harder to kill a

834
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 1: deer if you got him walking in and and going

835
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,439
Speaker 1: over and sticking his nose on a drag rag. It's

836
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: it's a heck of a lot easier to put a

837
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: hole in him. Very true. Well, would that be the case?

838
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: What would your favorite what's your favorite week of the

839
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: year to be out hunting white tails? Last week in October?

840
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 1: And why I don't have any competition? The does aren't

841
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: out there stealing them from me the boat. The bucks

842
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: are all ranging. Uh. And and I'm saying in the

843
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: last week in October to the first week in November. Uh,

844
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: the bucks are all ranged, and they're all out there

845
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: looking for a girlfriend. And it's so much easier to

846
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: get them to do what you want them to do,

847
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: uh than it is if he's if I did a

848
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: did a seminar down to Atlanta one time, and I

849
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: had I had this, gave him back and we got

850
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: to the question and answer thing, and anyway, the guy

851
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: raises his hand and he and he his question was

852
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: when the bucks are controlling the rut, what happens? And

853
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: I stopped him right there and I said, you know,

854
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: bucks are not controlling anything. To hang on him, and

855
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: how many married men would get in here? And then

856
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: you know sus in race or hand Listen, how many

857
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: of you folks control I mean, how mean you guys

858
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 1: control the rut at you're out, no kiddings. So so

859
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, if if you don't have any competition from

860
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: the ladies, you can you can be the only game

861
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: in town. And it works. I mean, it's just unbel

862
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: eviable how it works. And you know when the when

863
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 1: the girls start stealing them. I related to hunting turkeys.

864
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 1: When you're out there on that green field and there's

865
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: a there's you know, a gobbler out there with sex hands,

866
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: it's real tough to call him over to the edge

867
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 1: of the brush and killing he's not gonna leave her,

868
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: heard them, And it's the same thing with a buck

869
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 1: he's with a hot dough, real tough to get him,

870
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 1: get him to come see you. Yeah, what other speaking

871
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 1: of drag rags and stuff, what other sense do you use?

872
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: And what other applications other than the drag rag approach

873
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 1: or is that the only way you're using your sense? No,

874
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 1: I I will I've got a I think Dan may

875
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: have used some. We've got a it's fairly new. Uh

876
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 1: we call the land mine. And we have a bottle

877
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: of lure that you actually bury the entire bottle in

878
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: the ground and and you once you've got it buried,

879
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: then there's a a on the bottle. You pull the

880
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: ring and there's a wick inside the bottle and you

881
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: pull that wick up out of the ground and it

882
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: permeates the scent, and and you do it in a

883
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: scrape area. And it is unbelievable as the action we

884
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 1: get all those things. Well, you're using that. I used

885
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: one this year and uh I didn't take your advice, Sam,

886
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,760
Speaker 1: and pack it down hard enough. And they will they will, they'll,

887
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: they'll dig it out of the ground with their hooves. Yep,

888
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: they'll steal it. We've we had we've had a whole

889
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: bunch of guys that had the last picture they got

890
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: to their landline. The deer had to wick in his

891
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 1: mouth walking away with the bottle. Uh So what we

892
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: started doing is boring a hole in the ground with

893
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: a cordless drill, and then we pressed that bottle down

894
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 1: into that hole and that keeps him from digging it

895
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: out or pulling it out with the mouth. Interesting, very interesting. Yeah,

896
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: it sounds like a good type of situation for great

897
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 1: trail camera pictures. I've used a lot of mock scrapes

898
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 1: and things like that with my camera for photos, but

899
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: I've never really settled on a particular scent or lure

900
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: that I've been able to use that has worked for

901
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: me best. I've still kind of just stuck with natural

902
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: market kenyon human urine, and I've been meaning to try

903
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 1: some different things, So maybe I need to try something

904
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: like that. Both both of the bucks that that my

905
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 1: son and I killed this year were we had had

906
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,439
Speaker 1: a lot of trail pictures of them over the land mines.

907
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,359
Speaker 1: M hm. Do you do you use other things during

908
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: the rut or pre rut time period that we've been

909
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 1: talking about, like aggressive calling techniques or anything. Um. Absolutely, uh.

910
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: I love to rattle. It's what a thrill when they come,

911
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: you know, come into set of horns being smashed and

912
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 1: and you know, I rattle like ground. I I do

913
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: everything that that a deer just you know that. The

914
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 1: other thing that I can tell you is I've lived

915
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: with deer for thirty years and I've I've spent my

916
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,839
Speaker 1: lifetime studying and trying to understand what they're doing when

917
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 1: they're doing it. Uh, body language is huge. Knowing what

918
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,800
Speaker 1: you know no one by their action what they're gonna

919
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 1: do next, and they're not always knowing, but but having

920
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 1: a real good idea what's going to happen with them next,

921
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: and and being able to call them into your stand

922
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: location and and you know, it's just all of those

923
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: things together have you know, have really helped me to

924
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: harvest bigger deer? Yeah? Imagine can you give us some

925
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: examples of some of that body language that you look

926
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: for and and how you react to what you see

927
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: them doing. Yeah, I've done seminars all over the United

928
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 1: States with about white tailed body language and it's still

929
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: fascinates me. There's there's a couple of instances I can

930
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 1: tell you that that you know, and and one was

931
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 1: with with uh real well known celebritating standing on the

932
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: front porch of my shop. We've got deer right there

933
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: by the showw and this deer started walking up the

934
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 1: hill and I looked at him and said that deer

935
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 1: is gonna lay down. And he goes, how do you know?

936
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 1: And I said, I don't know, but watch him. He says,

937
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,720
Speaker 1: what makes you think to us? I don't know. I said,

938
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: just watch him. And he walked up, you know, three

939
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 1: quarters away up the hill. He stopped, walked in the circle,

940
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 1: made another half circle and laid down. Anyway, the guy

941
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: to stick, I guess, I don't believe it. Anyway, he goes,

942
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 1: I need to spend more time here. They tell it,

943
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: They telegraph. I don't know, if you know, I was

944
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: a huge wrestling state every kid, and I was wrestled

945
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 1: sometime or another. And one of the things that your

946
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: coach is always teaches your your opponent will telegraph, and

947
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:58,399
Speaker 1: he will. He will tell you if you if you're

948
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: if if you watch close and you understand it, he

949
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 1: will tell you when he's gonna move, and they'll be

950
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: just just something there. You know, there's a look, there's

951
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: a nod, there's a you know, there's a there's a dip,

952
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: there's something there, And before he moves, he'll telegraph that

953
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: move to you and you know what's coming and you

954
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: can react. Okay, dear do the same thing. They telegraph

955
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: through their eyes, their their ears, their hair. I mean

956
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: when you know in that hair and we've all seen

957
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: their hair stand on end when they're you know, there's

958
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,919
Speaker 1: two of them bristled up looking at each other. Uh.

959
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:36,479
Speaker 1: Tarsal glands will actually flower and open up when they're

960
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: nervous or if they're upset, either one. If they're scared, nervous,

961
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 1: upset mad, that that tarsal gland will open up and flower.

962
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: And you know what it looks like on a dead

963
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: deer where there's laid down, it's almost like it's combed

964
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: and groomed. It'll it'll honestly open clear up. The preorbital

965
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: gland on the on the deer's below the deer's eye

966
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: will flower. It'll open up if they're if they're scared

967
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: and nervous. Uh. Those things tell you that you know,

968
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,360
Speaker 1: this deer is probably going to jump the string on

969
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: me if if I shoot, because he's already on high alert.

970
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 1: You know, if the deer standing there and his ears

971
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: are about halfway down, sitting there and I call him

972
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: being a neutral, he just standing there completely neutral, nothing

973
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 1: going on to do to do, and you know just

974
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: you know, zipp an arrow right through it. If you

975
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: see his tail half mast and and kind of quiver

976
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: and he's probably urinating. Uh, what a great time to shoot.

977
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: He's not thinking about nothing else. Uh, Buddy, Buddy and

978
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: I were on our way home from a moose hunt

979
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: up in Saskatchewan and this deer was was was stopped

980
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 1: and he was hunched and it was it was a

981
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,359
Speaker 1: buck and his back end was lowered. And anyway, we're

982
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 1: driving along down the highway and he goes, hey, look

983
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: at deer's taking the poop And I said, no it, Smittie,

984
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: it's not I said that deer will will poop on

985
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: the on the move, on the fly, and he doesn't

986
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: have to stop and concentrate it. And I said he's

987
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 1: taking a leak. He goes, well, I guess you'd know.

988
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 1: So so yeah, it's just there. There's just a million

989
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,879
Speaker 1: things they can tell you by their posture and hair

990
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: and and and all the things they do. Yeah, Sam,

991
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 1: what about barometric pressure and moon phases? And you know

992
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: a lot of these hunters out there, they get caught

993
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 1: up in you know, trying to for you know, predict

994
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 1: deer movement based off of those two, and including whether

995
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 1: is any of can any of those be connected? Or

996
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: is it just kind of hogwash? Now I think I

997
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of merit to all of it.

998
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 1: I don't understand it well enough to to tell you

999
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 1: that that you know this is how to do it,

1000
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: but I guarantee it has merit. Uh here again, I

1001
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: kind of cheat. I look out the window, and if

1002
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:05,840
Speaker 1: my dear a all up on their feet, I know

1003
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:10,919
Speaker 1: it's a good time to be there. It's it's a

1004
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: pretty good bromber. I have guys call me at the

1005
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: shop and they go, what do you dear doing? That's

1006
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: how they're all bedded down? Okay, I'm gonna wait a

1007
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: couple of hours. Well, but it really it really is

1008
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: the same if my dear, if all my dear in

1009
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: my pastor if everyone of them is betted, I guarantee

1010
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: it's the same thing in the whild It's just and

1011
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: and I should probably pay more attention to barametric pressure

1012
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 1: and moon phase and and see what what that has

1013
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: to do with what I'm what I'm seeing. Are there

1014
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: any other things that you've learned from watching the deer

1015
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 1: that you've raised that you've been able to apply in

1016
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: your actual hunting. All the above, h everything that we've

1017
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: talked about. Just you know, when you when you know

1018
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: that the deer's you know, and when he locks up

1019
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: and he's standing still, or or he'll he'll and here

1020
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: again he a telegraph that he's gonna move. Uh. It

1021
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 1: gives you a great idea when to draw the bow,

1022
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: when when when not to draw the bow. Uh, it's

1023
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,479
Speaker 1: all every every little detail he gives you can help

1024
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: you somewhere or the other. Uh, kill the deer. And

1025
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 1: and even even calling you know, if you're if you

1026
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: got him in that last few steps and you can

1027
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: watch him, no know what his demeanor is, it can

1028
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 1: it can help you either either you know no when

1029
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: to dummy up or when to be aggressive and do

1030
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 1: some calling. Yeah, speaking of calling, can you can you

1031
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: um oh, diving a little bit deeper into your specifics

1032
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 1: of you know what what types of calls and grunting

1033
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 1: rattling sequences you use when you use them? Um, you

1034
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: know what in particular you actually do. I don't know

1035
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: if you heard that or not. I got a bowl

1036
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: elk and just bugled. That's awesome. I'm sitting outside my

1037
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: Homeie he's entertaining my neighbors. Uh. As far as calling, uh,

1038
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. I I do a lot of a

1039
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 1: lot of different calls, and a lot of times I

1040
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: just mimic what I hear my does do with with

1041
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: their babies and around the box. Uh as as well

1042
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: as grunning, you know, and like I told you earlier

1043
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: with with shipwreck, I you know, I made a very

1044
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: very aggressive, you know, growling loud you know, basically the

1045
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 1: you know, the roar and and I've only heard that

1046
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: a couple of times in a while. But sher locked

1047
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 1: him up. Yeah, yeah, that's incredible. M Moving back in

1048
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: time a little bit. You killed If I'm wrong, but

1049
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 1: I believe you killed your first two deer in. Is

1050
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:08,439
Speaker 1: that right? That's correct? Could you tell us the story

1051
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: of that hunt in that deer? That deer was I

1052
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: had passed the deer hundred yards from where I killed

1053
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 1: in the year before that was a great, big, lanky,

1054
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: tan tan pointer looked like a three year old. And

1055
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 1: I don't yet, I don't know that it was the

1056
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: same deer, but I always, I always would like to

1057
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: think that it was. But uh, I went out to

1058
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: the eleventh of October and there again pulled the drag

1059
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: rag out into the sand location and had some dosee

1060
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 1: that I busted on the way in. And I was

1061
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 1: hoping that didn't screw anything up, but had squirrels played

1062
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 1: in front of me. And across the c RP field,

1063
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: this deer came in from and and and he didn't

1064
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: come down the drag rag trail, but he came from

1065
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: down wind of the drag rag and walked right to it.

1066
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 1: So he had come all the way across the c

1067
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 1: RP field with his nose in the air, walked right

1068
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 1: to that drag rag and and stopped. H I tried

1069
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: to get a shot on him, and I drew the

1070
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: bow and I and and here again I was. I

1071
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 1: was solid as rock when I did it. And I

1072
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 1: kept thinking, boy, that's a that's a really good book.

1073
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 1: You know, I need to kill him. Well, I drew

1074
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: the bow and couldn't get through the brush, couldn't get

1075
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: the shot, and I let it down. And when I

1076
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 1: when I let the bow down, it was just I

1077
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 1: don't know, it must the simulated taking the shot, because

1078
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: I turned a junk. My knee started shaking, and I

1079
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 1: was started to chatter, and and I can remember telling myself.

1080
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 1: You know, this is a really good buck. Don't screw

1081
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: this up. And I talked myself out. It was like,

1082
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: get your act together, straightened up. When he comes by you,

1083
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 1: you gotta be ready, you gotta be able to kill him.

1084
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 1: And I did. I got squared away, I got got

1085
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 1: my you know, got my nerves under control. And I know,

1086
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: three or four minutes later, he turned and came from

1087
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 1: right to left and walked by me in about thirty

1088
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 1: yards and I slipped a narrowing M wow, what was then?

1089
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:30,439
Speaker 1: I turned to garden? What was that stand set up? Like?

1090
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: What made that the right spot to be? Uh? Kind

1091
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 1: of well, it didn't even end up quite like I

1092
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 1: thought it was, but it was I was. I was

1093
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 1: set up to catch him coming out of betting, defeating

1094
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: and trying to have have him catch my drag rag

1095
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: on the way, and he actually came from the opposite direction.

1096
01:02:55,960 --> 01:03:01,360
Speaker 1: M what about your They don't always play excuse me,

1097
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 1: they don't always play the play the game the way

1098
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 1: we think they should. Yeah. I gotta take advantage of

1099
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 1: whatever they give you, right, absolutely? Yeah, Dan? What were

1100
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: you about? What are you thinking over there? You know

1101
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: you've been not only do you raise deer, and you've

1102
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 1: been you know, raising them for thirty years, but you've

1103
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: been a hunter for almost, you know, pretty much your

1104
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: entire life. Translating that to what the average guy does,

1105
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 1: What are some of the biggest mistakes you feel hunters

1106
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: make in a year when either going after, you know,

1107
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:45,479
Speaker 1: a group of deer or going after us specific mature buck.

1108
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: I think sent control is is huge most people, don't,

1109
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: you know. I have guys that were sent lots suits

1110
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: that that don't wear a hood. Well, don't bother, you know,

1111
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 1: because you're your ears, your hair, your breath. You know,

1112
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: if you're not containing it with carbon, don't don't bother

1113
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:09,440
Speaker 1: wearing the suit. It doesn't matter. Uh. Using the wind

1114
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: I think is probably you know, And I do all

1115
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: the scent preparation. I do everything with with scent lock

1116
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 1: and use it, try to use it correctly. Uh. With that,

1117
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: I still use the wind every time I hunt. And

1118
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 1: you know, I talked to guys it's like, well, we've

1119
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 1: got twelve stands and there's twelve of us, so we

1120
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:32,439
Speaker 1: all go to one of the stands every day. You know, Well,

1121
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 1: you know, if the wind isn't right, don't hunt it.

1122
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:37,560
Speaker 1: You'll take the day off, whatever it takes. But but

1123
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: don't go in and screw it up. Dear, pattern us

1124
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 1: way way better than we patterned them. If you go

1125
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: in and the and the mosquitoes are biting and you're

1126
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 1: you're swatting mosquitoes and and sweating and and doing all

1127
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 1: those things, just you know, don't go go fishing. Don't

1128
01:04:55,360 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 1: pressure them. Uh. De react to pressure more than than

1129
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 1: I think anybody realizes. I try to scout from from

1130
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 1: you know, three quarters of a mile away. I don't

1131
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 1: want to go in and bust them. I don't know.

1132
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: I just there's there's a whole bunch of things that

1133
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 1: I used to do that I don't do the same anymore.

1134
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 1: What are some of the other things. What are some

1135
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:26,919
Speaker 1: of the other things that you've how you've evolved. Well,

1136
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: just like I said, if the wind isn't right, don't

1137
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: go there. Uh, save the save the location. Uh. The

1138
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 1: first time in the stand is always the very best.

1139
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,920
Speaker 1: And I have over the years used a climber a lot,

1140
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 1: and I'll go out and just have spots where I

1141
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 1: can go and and not necessarily you know, anything set

1142
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 1: up there. But if the wind's right, and I've been

1143
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 1: seeing some action and things that are working. Sometimes if

1144
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: you just move, you know, thirty yards from where you

1145
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 1: were and go up in the stand, you know, sometimes

1146
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 1: that's all it takes too to throw them off and

1147
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 1: and put you in the right place. Yeah, it's the

1148
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 1: little things, right that. That's one of the biggest things

1149
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: I think Dan and I have learned over the years,

1150
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: is like just the importance of every tiny little thing

1151
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 1: you can move in your favor. Those things add up right, Oh, absolutely,

1152
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: And that's something that I've always I've always try to

1153
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 1: try to tell my customers and even when I work

1154
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 1: on their boat, I tell them that the little details

1155
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: kill big deer. You know, I haven't having everything set

1156
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: where it's where, you know, where your peep site isn't

1157
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 1: gonna move, or you can't come loose or uh those

1158
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 1: Like I said, little thing, little details kill big deer. Yeah.

1159
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: Are there any other things that you do different than

1160
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: most other hunters? Is there anything else really unique that

1161
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:57,120
Speaker 1: you apply when it comes to deer hunting that you

1162
01:06:57,120 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 1: do that you think is a little bit different than

1163
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 1: the average guy girl. Probably the biggest thing I do

1164
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 1: different than than every than of the people is I

1165
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 1: have set my life up around deer and deer hunting,

1166
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: and I I will probably spend fifty first forty to

1167
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 1: fifty times uh what the average hunter does sitting in

1168
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 1: a tree stand. A lot of quality time a tree Huh. Yeah.

1169
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:39,200
Speaker 1: I had a young man coming to my shop one

1170
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:41,960
Speaker 1: day and told me he was he was really really

1171
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 1: upset because he almost fell asleep in the tree stand.

1172
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: I said, how old are you he was? He wasnteen

1173
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 1: years old. I said, I said, hey, I've had that

1174
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 1: many years of sleep in the tree. I said, I've

1175
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: slept the tree stad longer. You been a lie. But no,

1176
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 1: I you know, you've got to spend the time. You

1177
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 1: know it. It doesn't just happen. You gotta be there.

1178
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,120
Speaker 1: But but on the other hand, if if it's not

1179
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 1: right and the wind isn't right and the conditions aren't favorable,

1180
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 1: don't go in and booter it up. What you know,

1181
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 1: what I tell you, how much time I spent in

1182
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 1: the stand. It's you also got to understand that there's

1183
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of different stands and a whole

1184
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 1: bunch of different places where I'm going and I'm not

1185
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 1: going in and booter and one up all the time. Yeah,

1186
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you do other than careful seting

1187
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 1: control and just not going in to hunt too often

1188
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 1: to reduce dear the pressure, the pressure you putting in

1189
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 1: your dear. Is there anything else about your strategy or

1190
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 1: your access routes or anything else that you focus on

1191
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 1: to make sure you keep that pressure low. Yeah. I've

1192
01:08:52,320 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: very much tried to slide in and slide out. I've

1193
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 1: got some buddies that have hunted with me for years

1194
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:02,320
Speaker 1: that that I finally got. I'm convinced that they needed

1195
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 1: when they come here to hunt with me, they needed

1196
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 1: to see every inch of that tember. It's like, guys,

1197
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 1: you don't you know, you don't need to do that.

1198
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 1: All you wanna do is slide into that stand it's

1199
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 1: already there. Slide in, slide out, you know, go around

1200
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 1: the areas where you know there's gonna be deer, you know,

1201
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 1: if you've got to a field where they're where they're feeding, Uh,

1202
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,639
Speaker 1: go around it, you know, and and slide into the stand.

1203
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:32,839
Speaker 1: Don't don't booger it. Just just keep the pressure to

1204
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 1: to an absolute minimum. We try, you know, in the

1205
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 1: off season not not to booger things up. Uh, and

1206
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 1: and give the deer a lot of pressure. Um, try

1207
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: to give him plenty of feed and cover and just

1208
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:50,559
Speaker 1: lay it. Said earlier about you know, hand cutting that

1209
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 1: that betting area, I've done a lot of that. I've

1210
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 1: cut trails from from betting area to betting areas, so

1211
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 1: I've got good travel corridors. And with every bit of that.

1212
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 1: Every time i'm doing that, I'm figuring out where I'm

1213
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 1: gonna have a stand location that i can slide in

1214
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 1: and slide out without being caught. M Speaking of the

1215
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 1: hinge cutting, are you doing any other habitat work? Do

1216
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 1: you plant food plots or any other betting improvements or

1217
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 1: anything like that. Yeah, I'll be above. Yeah, what what

1218
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 1: have you found to be some of the most successful

1219
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:26,439
Speaker 1: improvements you've made? You know, I'm interested in like a

1220
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: specific food plot, how you plan it, or like a

1221
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 1: specific instance of a betting cover improvement. Um, any unique

1222
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 1: example you can share with us that was really effective. Yeah,

1223
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, with food plots, I found that if we've

1224
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 1: got farmers and farmer ground and that's what they do

1225
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 1: for living, they're really really good at it. Uh. We

1226
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 1: all want to do little food plots here and there,

1227
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:56,280
Speaker 1: and and a lot of them never make it to

1228
01:10:56,400 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: maturity because you know you're going in and putting putting

1229
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 1: a variety of something in there that that the deer

1230
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 1: really like, and they hammer it and it's gone before

1231
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:11,600
Speaker 1: the season never gets there, uh or it never makes maturity.

1232
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:14,599
Speaker 1: What I like to do with food plots is is

1233
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 1: I will have the farmer, whatever he's planning in my field,

1234
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 1: I'll have him plant the same thing, same variety in

1235
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:26,320
Speaker 1: my food plot, and for the whole season they've got

1236
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 1: you know, let's let's say there's you know I've got

1237
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 1: Let's say I've got a two acre food plot and

1238
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:36,640
Speaker 1: there's there's sixty acres that the farmers got. Well, I

1239
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 1: wanted to be the same thing. So when the deer

1240
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 1: and there, they've got sixty two acres of beans. Well,

1241
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 1: when the farmer takes his out, I still have beans

1242
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:49,599
Speaker 1: because they didn't go in and just devour mind because

1243
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 1: it was the only beans there. So I feel like

1244
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 1: that's really important. I have food when you're done, and

1245
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 1: when he takes his out and you're the only even town. True,

1246
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 1: that's a nice position of being too. When you, like

1247
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 1: you said, when you're the only game in town, you

1248
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:08,559
Speaker 1: all of a sudden can pull in a whole lot

1249
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 1: more dear and really focus that dear travel I imagine two.

1250
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 1: Would that mean the case? Do you specifically plan some

1251
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:18,799
Speaker 1: of your hunts or some of your hunting strategy around

1252
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:20,519
Speaker 1: when you know the crops are gonna come out? Like

1253
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:22,639
Speaker 1: do you stay out of certain areas because you know

1254
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 1: that this spot is gonna be a lot better once

1255
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 1: the rest of the crops come out. I don't know

1256
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 1: that I I necessarily stay out of them, but but you

1257
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:34,960
Speaker 1: can sure see the difference if you know, if if

1258
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 1: you got standing corn and you know they're so you

1259
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:40,680
Speaker 1: got three acres of standing corn all the way around you,

1260
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 1: whether it's yours or the neighbors, you know, it's real

1261
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 1: hard to find deer when they can walk out in the

1262
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:51,040
Speaker 1: the middle of that cornfield disappear. So yeah, that groceries

1263
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 1: have a lot to do with with my hunting strategy.

1264
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you got you gotta know where they're going

1265
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 1: to feed, where they're going to bed uh and and

1266
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:02,679
Speaker 1: groceries are there, and what you know what they're looking for.

1267
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,240
Speaker 1: You know, early in the fall, they're they're probably not

1268
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 1: going to be on the cereal crops are gonna be

1269
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 1: out on green and and we always plant clover, and

1270
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:14,920
Speaker 1: and you know we've got a variety of things and

1271
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:16,920
Speaker 1: and no one when and when the hunt them is

1272
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 1: is probably very crucial. So what does your what's the

1273
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 1: timeline look like? Then? It sounds like you focus on

1274
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:25,679
Speaker 1: green early, clover early, and then how does that shift

1275
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:30,679
Speaker 1: throughout the rest of the season, Uh, once it frosts

1276
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:33,600
Speaker 1: and and and you know if he gets you know,

1277
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 1: snow covered, unless unless the clover is really tall, they're

1278
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 1: they're probably not going to hit it that hard. And

1279
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:41,360
Speaker 1: you know, it gets cold, and they go they go

1280
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:46,400
Speaker 1: to the corn and beans. Uh. Just and and I

1281
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 1: and I know there's a you know, a ton of

1282
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 1: different food plots and providers out there that that they

1283
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 1: all have a you know, they're particular thing and ne

1284
01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:00,760
Speaker 1: Brassicas and all of that. Uh. And you you know

1285
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 1: the other thing is you can sit back and scouting

1286
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:05,840
Speaker 1: kind of kind of watch and know what they're doing

1287
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 1: when Yeah, speaking of scouting, and it sounds like you

1288
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 1: do a lot of long distance scouting. I think you

1289
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:14,879
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that you don't run a lot of trail cameras.

1290
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 1: Why is that because I'm older? You know what my

1291
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:26,840
Speaker 1: son is getting me, you know, I guess in the

1292
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 1: twenty one century, and he's he's gotta be kind of

1293
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 1: excited about these trail cameras, and we we had more

1294
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,160
Speaker 1: fun with him this year than than I have ever

1295
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:41,200
Speaker 1: had in the past. Uh, I don't know, I I

1296
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 1: it's a double edged sword. It's it's really neat to

1297
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:46,559
Speaker 1: see all the deer. I have watched so many guys

1298
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 1: booger an area because they put a camera right in

1299
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 1: the middle of where they're gonna hunt, and then they

1300
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:54,519
Speaker 1: go in there three times a week to to look

1301
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 1: at their their you know, pull their cards and look

1302
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:00,880
Speaker 1: at their their deer. And by time season gets there,

1303
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:03,559
Speaker 1: they've had so much pressure they leave. And I know

1304
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:06,720
Speaker 1: one little guy that I know we did that he

1305
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:09,160
Speaker 1: couldn't understand where the deer went, but he came in

1306
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 1: twice a week to show me his pictures. So it's like,

1307
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:18,920
Speaker 1: I don't know that part. I don't that part of

1308
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:22,160
Speaker 1: it I don't like. But as conservative as I am

1309
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 1: about going in and busting them and bothering them beyond trail,

1310
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 1: trail cameras are really neat. But but there's something about

1311
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:34,080
Speaker 1: the spontanity of of like, look at that buck I've

1312
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:36,760
Speaker 1: never seen anywhere you're coming from. This is great, you know,

1313
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 1: as opposed to, oh yeah, there's wilbur. You know here

1314
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 1: it comes again. That's true. We we we recently have

1315
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 1: been just talking about that. How there there's something cool

1316
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:49,360
Speaker 1: about seeing a unique buck or specific buck over and over.

1317
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 1: But then there's also something cool about that surprise in

1318
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 1: the mystery of a new deer showing up, and you

1319
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 1: kind of you can get some with one and you

1320
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:59,680
Speaker 1: lose some with the other. But I guess it's all

1321
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:05,439
Speaker 1: pretty cool and one way another. Absolutely, Hey, Sam, it's

1322
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:09,680
Speaker 1: getting to that time of year where deer are in

1323
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 1: the process of shedding their antlers. Is there, you know

1324
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 1: again observing your dear herd, Is there a time that

1325
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 1: a majority of your dear shed or is there do

1326
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 1: certain dear shed at the same exact time every year? Yes,

1327
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 1: kind of all the above. I know certain dear will

1328
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:41,560
Speaker 1: will shed pretty much at the same time. But but

1329
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:48,679
Speaker 1: there again, you know, the amount of stress the animal

1330
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:52,439
Speaker 1: has during the winter makes a big difference too. For

1331
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 1: a lot of the deer this year, they seem to

1332
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:58,640
Speaker 1: be holding onto the antlers longer because you know, we

1333
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 1: just we just had such a mild winner that that

1334
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:05,600
Speaker 1: they you know, they haven't had the stress, and what

1335
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 1: really happens is the testosterone level and that animal drops

1336
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:13,760
Speaker 1: and that's you know, just like when they when they

1337
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:16,759
Speaker 1: come out of velvet, it's the same thing for dropping

1338
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:19,640
Speaker 1: the antlers. So when when they come out, you know,

1339
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:22,320
Speaker 1: when they drop the antler there again they're impotent. Their

1340
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:26,120
Speaker 1: testosterone level is way low and that's what causes that

1341
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 1: antler to separate and fall off. What percentage of the

1342
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:36,160
Speaker 1: bucks are still holding by you uh, you know reports

1343
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:40,479
Speaker 1: from from the guys around they're seeing bachelor groups and

1344
01:17:40,479 --> 01:17:44,840
Speaker 1: and maybe still have antlers. I had one the other

1345
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:46,559
Speaker 1: day a couple of just a couple of days ago

1346
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:52,040
Speaker 1: said that that probably it might have been sev deer

1347
01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 1: in that particular group had had antlers. Um my antler

1348
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:01,000
Speaker 1: bucks that I have just in one lot together, there's

1349
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 1: nine bucks and two of them are still carrying and

1350
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 1: they're both both little bitty gays, so you know they

1351
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 1: have they have any stress this winter. Yeah, It's interesting

1352
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:14,759
Speaker 1: how how it seems to vary so much across region,

1353
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:17,760
Speaker 1: the region, and even local areas too. It seems like

1354
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:19,800
Speaker 1: in some parts of the country I'm hearing people, me

1355
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:21,720
Speaker 1: and Dan, we're just talking a little while ago, a

1356
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:23,840
Speaker 1: lot of bucks still holding, and then you hear about

1357
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:26,639
Speaker 1: these other instances, whether lots of them have already dropped

1358
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,480
Speaker 1: or dropping right now. And it's one of those mysteries

1359
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:32,559
Speaker 1: that it's pretty it's pretty interesting how it all kind

1360
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 1: of works. Yeah, but it it is pretty much related

1361
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:42,200
Speaker 1: to stress levels. If if we'd had a tiffer winter,

1362
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure that we'd have more deer or we they

1363
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:50,519
Speaker 1: ought to be about done by now dropping. Yeah, Sam,

1364
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:54,879
Speaker 1: looking back over the course of your your years of hunting, Um,

1365
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:56,519
Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about the fact that you've killed

1366
01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:59,679
Speaker 1: three bucks. I'm sure you've killed a lot of other

1367
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:02,760
Speaker 1: great deer. Um. Is there anyone, whether it be one

1368
01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:04,599
Speaker 1: of the ones we've already talked about or any other,

1369
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:07,240
Speaker 1: is there any deer that you've hunted and killed that

1370
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:09,720
Speaker 1: you can kind of pick out as the most meaningful

1371
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:12,719
Speaker 1: or the most memorable? And could you tell us why

1372
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 1: that why that is? You know, I can probably tell

1373
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 1: you more about the ones that have beat me for

1374
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:25,880
Speaker 1: for being in my memory and burned in I got dude,

1375
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:28,600
Speaker 1: nice deer that I killed that, Yeah, it was a

1376
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 1: great memory. It was a great hunt. But probably the

1377
01:19:33,160 --> 01:19:36,840
Speaker 1: most memorable deer that I've encountered are the ones that

1378
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 1: have kicked my butt. I'll never forget him. Uh, the

1379
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:48,240
Speaker 1: one I told you I pulled the drag reg and

1380
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:52,360
Speaker 1: had him, had him coming in. I mean just he

1381
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 1: was like coming in like a song. And I made

1382
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:57,800
Speaker 1: a ninety degree corner and he went out across the

1383
01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:01,920
Speaker 1: CRP field. He missed the trail. And you know, I

1384
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 1: will never forget that deer as long as I live.

1385
01:20:04,280 --> 01:20:07,559
Speaker 1: I had another one that was I needed. I needed

1386
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:11,760
Speaker 1: two steps and I this this buck was was if

1387
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:13,840
Speaker 1: he was an aunt. He was. He was a mid

1388
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:16,760
Speaker 1: one eighties, and it was a huge ten pointer. He

1389
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:21,400
Speaker 1: was gorgeous. And I needed two more steps. And he

1390
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:24,200
Speaker 1: stood down wind at me, and like I told you,

1391
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:26,559
Speaker 1: I do a lot of things for my sin control.

1392
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 1: But he was down wind at me for for thirty

1393
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:34,200
Speaker 1: five minutes, and he froze up and would not come in,

1394
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:36,600
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you must have got just

1395
01:20:36,720 --> 01:20:39,639
Speaker 1: the right amount of wind, stuck his nose in the air,

1396
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:43,000
Speaker 1: and I saw two little sniff sniff, and and he

1397
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:46,360
Speaker 1: got rigid and he just he just kind of melted

1398
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 1: away backwards. I rattled that deer in I watched him

1399
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:54,040
Speaker 1: come in for an hour and a half and I'll

1400
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:56,679
Speaker 1: never forget. I went back to the truck. I took

1401
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 1: my hunting clothes off, put them in my toe, put

1402
01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:01,920
Speaker 1: my boot some a tout slammed them in the back

1403
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:05,519
Speaker 1: of the truck, and I was I was so upset,

1404
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:10,160
Speaker 1: and I got the truck to drive away. And now

1405
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 1: this is really stupid. And I sat there for a minute.

1406
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:15,760
Speaker 1: I looked up and I went, thank you Lord, that

1407
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:19,120
Speaker 1: was a great experience. I'll be back to get him tomorrow.

1408
01:21:19,439 --> 01:21:26,920
Speaker 1: And I never saw him again. Gorgeous dear. Wow, now

1409
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:30,880
Speaker 1: you've had one hell of a hunting career, right, I

1410
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:34,400
Speaker 1: mean you've had encounters with and and have killed dear

1411
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:37,439
Speaker 1: that a majority of the listeners will never see in

1412
01:21:37,479 --> 01:21:42,479
Speaker 1: their entire life. And knowing you, I would say, and

1413
01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:44,920
Speaker 1: then this is just an assumption that if you never

1414
01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:47,800
Speaker 1: if you never shot another dear again, you would you

1415
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:52,439
Speaker 1: would be happy. How much attention now is on your

1416
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 1: children and grandchildren. Your kids and your grandkids are the

1417
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:05,120
Speaker 1: best party of life. Uh, don't get you're wrong about that.

1418
01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 1: That one thing is I want and big ones Uh,

1419
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:18,400
Speaker 1: I have it. I have My oldest grandson is an

1420
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:23,519
Speaker 1: absolute killing machine. This kid is first of all, he

1421
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:26,479
Speaker 1: is so smart. He's he's way smart than his grandpa.

1422
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:31,320
Speaker 1: But he is, I mean he he is a sponge.

1423
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:34,920
Speaker 1: Anything you tell that kid, he you know, he he

1424
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:38,400
Speaker 1: digests it, he goes through it, and he understands it.

1425
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:40,719
Speaker 1: And he and he he is one of the greatest

1426
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:44,760
Speaker 1: hunters I've ever met. Uh. The kid is just incredible.

1427
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:49,600
Speaker 1: And and he's got he absolutely has ice water in

1428
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:54,200
Speaker 1: his veins. He's he has a killing machine. Uh just

1429
01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:58,519
Speaker 1: really and and eyesight of an eagle. I mean, he's

1430
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 1: just he really isn't amazing hunter and it's really fun

1431
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:05,599
Speaker 1: to watch that. And and and all the kids aren't

1432
01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:07,360
Speaker 1: gonna hunt someone, you know, some of them don't have

1433
01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 1: that interest. Some do. But but he's got it and

1434
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:14,719
Speaker 1: he's and he's got the killer instinct for sure. Uh.

1435
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:17,800
Speaker 1: Hunting with my son is is uh. You know. I

1436
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:19,920
Speaker 1: burned him out at a very young age when he

1437
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:23,200
Speaker 1: was twelve. It was cold and miserable and nasty, and

1438
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:26,160
Speaker 1: he wanted to go home, and I'm telling him, we're

1439
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:28,639
Speaker 1: deer hunters, we don't go home. Well, he went home

1440
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,919
Speaker 1: that night he said, I'll never outwich you get. And

1441
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:35,519
Speaker 1: he did that for a lot of years. And here

1442
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,080
Speaker 1: in the you know, the last half a dozen years

1443
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:42,240
Speaker 1: we've been hunting together and and this kid, you know,

1444
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:45,839
Speaker 1: we we got Sammy and white tailed deer the same

1445
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:49,080
Speaker 1: same spring. So he'll be thirty years old this spring.

1446
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:53,160
Speaker 1: He grew up with deer taking care of him and

1447
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:55,479
Speaker 1: and and he understands him. It's it's really a pleasure

1448
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:59,640
Speaker 1: to watch him hunt because he knows that, he understands that,

1449
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:03,559
Speaker 1: he can feel it. You can watch and it's it's just,

1450
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:08,559
Speaker 1: you know, I really get pleasure watching him enjoy what

1451
01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:10,519
Speaker 1: what I one of the things that I enjoyed most

1452
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:12,880
Speaker 1: of my life. It's just it is a big deal.

1453
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:18,200
Speaker 1: You're right, Yeah, that must be pretty awesome. So I've

1454
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:21,960
Speaker 1: got I've got one final question for you, sam Um.

1455
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:25,280
Speaker 1: Given what you do for a living and where you

1456
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:28,880
Speaker 1: live and kind of what you've been involved in, I

1457
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:31,519
Speaker 1: gotta imagine you've met a lot of really, really good hunters,

1458
01:24:31,640 --> 01:24:35,519
Speaker 1: and I'm curious if if there is any common trait

1459
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:38,800
Speaker 1: or quality that you've seen in these very best of

1460
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:41,200
Speaker 1: the best hunters that you've gotten to know, what would

1461
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:45,919
Speaker 1: that common trait be I had a gay and actually

1462
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:49,400
Speaker 1: one of the one of the better hunters I've ever met. Uh,

1463
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:55,880
Speaker 1: he he told me once and it was and it

1464
01:24:55,920 --> 01:25:00,120
Speaker 1: was a true compliment from him. But he he asked me,

1465
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:02,160
Speaker 1: he looked me right now, and he asked me, says,

1466
01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:05,160
Speaker 1: do you know what's different between you and I and

1467
01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:07,599
Speaker 1: a lot of other hunters? And I as well, I'm

1468
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:13,479
Speaker 1: shorter than most of them. No, no, not that, he says.

1469
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:19,640
Speaker 1: He says, the difference and and and I'm not I

1470
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: don't know we're bragging myself this way, but the difference

1471
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 1: in him. Let's say that anyway. And we're sitting there

1472
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:29,880
Speaker 1: talking about it, and he says, do you know what

1473
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:32,120
Speaker 1: the difference is? And I said, any I got no idea.

1474
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 1: He goes, we finished the deal. He says, Lots and

1475
01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 1: lots of folks are gonna have opportunities. He says, you

1476
01:25:39,280 --> 01:25:46,840
Speaker 1: have to finish. And I think that's probably probably true. Uh,

1477
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:50,559
Speaker 1: there's lots of opportunity out there. But if you if

1478
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:54,120
Speaker 1: you don't follow completely true. And that's one thing I'm

1479
01:25:54,120 --> 01:25:58,000
Speaker 1: telling telling you about my grandson. He finishes. I mean

1480
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 1: every time he's he's he you know, he's clear through

1481
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:04,720
Speaker 1: the whole thing. So, yeah, you can do all your

1482
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:07,760
Speaker 1: homework and do everything you need to do, but you

1483
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:12,920
Speaker 1: gotta finish. How do you become a better finisher? I

1484
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:16,400
Speaker 1: think that's experience. I think that's you know, spending the

1485
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:19,800
Speaker 1: time and being there and and knowing it and understanding

1486
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: it and and you know, knowing what might happen next,

1487
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:26,519
Speaker 1: or just just by a twitch of a tale. Uh,

1488
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:31,040
Speaker 1: you know, all of the things. Just just yeah. I

1489
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:33,280
Speaker 1: think you have to love it. You have to be

1490
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 1: part of it and eat it and breathe it, you know,

1491
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 1: just like we are, all of us. You know, we

1492
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:42,680
Speaker 1: we did breathe it, sleep it. Uh or his Dan

1493
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 1: said he was obsessed by it. You know that that's

1494
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:50,800
Speaker 1: all part of it. Yeah, very true, very true. The

1495
01:26:50,840 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 1: good news when it comes to that, Dan, is that

1496
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:56,240
Speaker 1: you and me we've we've got hopefully plenty of time

1497
01:26:56,280 --> 01:27:00,479
Speaker 1: to to get better. Right. That's right? Amen? So U Dan,

1498
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:04,360
Speaker 1: do you have any final question or thought for Sam? No?

1499
01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:07,599
Speaker 1: Just uh, I'll tell you what. Every time I come

1500
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:12,640
Speaker 1: into the shop, because I I'm from Mount Pleasant and uh,

1501
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:14,479
Speaker 1: I went to high school with one of his daughters,

1502
01:27:15,160 --> 01:27:18,200
Speaker 1: and uh, every time I go into the shop, This

1503
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:20,800
Speaker 1: is a plug for Sam and his business, but one

1504
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:23,320
Speaker 1: of the one of the greatest guys you'll ever meet.

1505
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:25,400
Speaker 1: And on top of that, he knows what he's talking

1506
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:27,760
Speaker 1: about for white tails. So if you get the opportunity to,

1507
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:31,160
Speaker 1: you know, meet Sam Claura and shake his hand, I say,

1508
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:35,080
Speaker 1: do it. Hopefully I'll be down there. Hopefully I'll be

1509
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:38,360
Speaker 1: down there soon to do just that. Seems like there's

1510
01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:41,720
Speaker 1: a seems like you're absolutely right. So Sam, thank you

1511
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:43,960
Speaker 1: so much for for taking the time to do this

1512
01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:47,280
Speaker 1: and and sharing all this insight with us. You're bet

1513
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:50,160
Speaker 1: this has been fun. Yeah, we enjoyed it, and and

1514
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:52,320
Speaker 1: good luck this year. Hopefully you can kill another giant.

1515
01:27:54,320 --> 01:27:59,639
Speaker 1: I'll be trying. Thanks Sam, and there you go. Episode

1516
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:03,519
Speaker 1: number one forty one is a rap real quickly, though,

1517
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:05,639
Speaker 1: I do want to thank our partners who have made

1518
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 1: this podcast possible so big thanks to sit to Gear,

1519
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:12,920
Speaker 1: YETI Coolers, Ozonics, Redneck Blinds, Maven Optics, Whitetail, Institute of

1520
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:17,040
Speaker 1: North America, Carbon Express and hunt Terra Maps. And finally,

1521
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:19,720
Speaker 1: thank you all for listening. And I've actually got to

1522
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:22,000
Speaker 1: meet a number of you at some recent events, and

1523
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:24,400
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you the wire done audience. You guys

1524
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:27,800
Speaker 1: are pretty legit, so thank you. Good luck out there

1525
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:31,519
Speaker 1: scouting and shop hunting, and stay wired to hunt.