WEBVTT - The Future of Sound: Part One

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<v Speaker 1>Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>Forward Thinking. Hey, they're in. Welcome to Forward Thinking, the

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<v Speaker 1>podcast that looks at the future and says, I will

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<v Speaker 1>sit right down waiting for the gift of sound. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Jonathan Strickland and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be talking about the future of sound. And there's a

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<v Speaker 1>very good reason that we're talking about that today, which

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<v Speaker 1>is that I've had a cold all week and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>afraid that my voice in my mouth is going to

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<v Speaker 1>sound bizarre. On the other end of this, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you never really tell what you yourself sound like. People.

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<v Speaker 1>You are sounding a little bit more of vibrato than usual, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that may just be my opera singing that I've been practicing.

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<v Speaker 1>On the side, we're also recording earlier in the day

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<v Speaker 1>than we usually do, so that could affect our sound.

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<v Speaker 1>That is, I'm actually really surprised that I don't sound

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<v Speaker 1>like Tom Waits right now. Usually usually before like one pm,

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<v Speaker 1>the microphones have been drinking. Yeah, whenever, whenever I think

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<v Speaker 1>about the future of sound, the thing that I hope

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<v Speaker 1>that they come up with is a device that actually

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<v Speaker 1>makes your voice sound the way it sounds in your head,

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<v Speaker 1>so as you sounds as good as you do inside

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<v Speaker 1>of your your head, as opposed to listening back to

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<v Speaker 1>a recording and thinking, oh, that's not what I sound like,

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<v Speaker 1>is it. Yeah, Today, we wanted to really look into

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<v Speaker 1>different uses of sound. I mean, sound clearly is a

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<v Speaker 1>very powerful thing, and in multiple ways, Like it can

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<v Speaker 1>be figuratively powerful, like you hear something truly moving and

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<v Speaker 1>you have an emotional response to it, or it can

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<v Speaker 1>be physically literally powerful, like the shock way from a

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<v Speaker 1>sonic boom, which can shatter glass or even knock you

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<v Speaker 1>over depending upon the power of it and how close

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<v Speaker 1>you are to the shock wave. I mean, it literally

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<v Speaker 1>has physical power. So we're gonna really look into some

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<v Speaker 1>cool uses for sound in the future, and we have

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<v Speaker 1>so many of them that this is the first part

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<v Speaker 1>of a two part episode. Thank you for pointing that out, Law,

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<v Speaker 1>and so we don't remember halfway through and then go

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<v Speaker 1>have to go back and say that all over. That's right,

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<v Speaker 1>So we've got a lot to say now. The video

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<v Speaker 1>episode that goes along with this, this pair of audio

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<v Speaker 1>podcast I cover three interesting things about sound in the future.

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<v Speaker 1>And we're gonna go more in depth on all of

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<v Speaker 1>those as well as additional ones, because, as I said

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<v Speaker 1>in the video, there's so many potential uses and things

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<v Speaker 1>that we're learning about sound that it's really the stuff

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<v Speaker 1>I talked about in that episodes, just the tip of

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<v Speaker 1>the iceberg. But before we get into all of that,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it would be beneficial for us to actually

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<v Speaker 1>learn what sound is, how it works, because that will

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<v Speaker 1>go on to inform, uh, the other stories we talk

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<v Speaker 1>about and how we're making an innovative use of sound. Right, So,

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<v Speaker 1>sound is the magic produced by the music of the

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<v Speaker 1>sphere vibrating on the fourth harmony. You watched that April

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<v Speaker 1>Fool's episode of for Thinking way too many times? Um, Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>the character from that episode would certainly agree with you. However,

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<v Speaker 1>if we want to get a little more scientific, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about sound being that's that's what's produced when stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>when matter vibrates, all right, that's that's your basic definition.

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<v Speaker 1>When matter vibrates, it produces sound. Whether there's anyone there

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<v Speaker 1>to hear it, who's to say so if a tree

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<v Speaker 1>falls in the forest, it does make a sound. You

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<v Speaker 1>might not be there to perceive it, But it happens

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<v Speaker 1>um So stuff vibrates at certain frequencies which are completely

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<v Speaker 1>determined by the physical properties and the parameters of that stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>This is called the resonant frequency, right Like how dense

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<v Speaker 1>it is or the temperature of the of the matter

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<v Speaker 1>can can determine it. The actual physical structure, whether it's

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<v Speaker 1>a crystalline structure or not, that can determine it as well.

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<v Speaker 1>If you're talking about air, like the humidity, the water content,

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<v Speaker 1>and exactly so when we talk about the speed of sound,

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<v Speaker 1>which will get more into in a little bit, little

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<v Speaker 1>tiny things can make a difference. Now it might not

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<v Speaker 1>be perceptible to we mirror mortals because we're not capable

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<v Speaker 1>of detecting millisecond you know, differences in speed, but the altitude,

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<v Speaker 1>the density of the air obviously would go along with that.

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<v Speaker 1>That has an effect. The temperature, the humidity, all of

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<v Speaker 1>these things can affect the speed of sounds. So when

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<v Speaker 1>something vibrates like a drum, if you strike that drum,

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<v Speaker 1>it's gonna vibrate at its resonant frequency. Same sort of

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<v Speaker 1>thing like if you tap a glass and they hear

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<v Speaker 1>that little tinging sound, it's going to be vibrating at

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<v Speaker 1>that resonant frequency, and that sound will be consistent. So

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<v Speaker 1>if you hit it again, it's going to make that

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<v Speaker 1>same sound unless you change the parameters of that object.

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<v Speaker 1>So like with a drum, if you were too tighten

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<v Speaker 1>or or loosen the drumhead, you would get a different

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<v Speaker 1>sound the next time you strike it because you've actually

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<v Speaker 1>changed the physical parameters of that matter, or if you

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<v Speaker 1>strike it with a different stick, different speed. Technically, the

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<v Speaker 1>actual frequency of the sound should be more or less

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<v Speaker 1>the same. Now, the amplitude will be different, but the

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<v Speaker 1>frequency at which it vibrates apart from the initial contact.

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<v Speaker 1>When the initial contact happens, you're actively introducing a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a random event to that matter, but it will

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<v Speaker 1>settle into the frequency. Because it's really easy to make

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<v Speaker 1>matter vibrate at its resonant frequency and really hard to

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<v Speaker 1>make it vibrate at any other frequency. It's one of

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<v Speaker 1>the things about resonance that's really interesting. Now you can

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<v Speaker 1>do it, but it takes more effort, and as we know,

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<v Speaker 1>based upon the laws of physics, things tend to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of move to the easiest state. Right if it takes

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<v Speaker 1>more energy than interpetes like no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I was kind of thinking about the difference between drumming

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<v Speaker 1>with sticks and drumming with brushes. Sure. Yeah, Now, the

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<v Speaker 1>actual frequencies, if you got down to a point where

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<v Speaker 1>you were measuring the sound waves, you would see that

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<v Speaker 1>the frequencies would be really very similar. It's just that

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<v Speaker 1>you're generating them in a different way. So to us

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<v Speaker 1>it sounds different, but the when you get down to

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<v Speaker 1>like actually looking at wave forms, it would be very similar. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>So these vibrations that we we are talking about, that's

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<v Speaker 1>not It's not like something vibrates and then magically we

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<v Speaker 1>can detect it. Other stuff has to happen for us

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to perceive those vibrations. And generally what

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about is come pression and rare affection of

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<v Speaker 1>air molecules. So, because as we've stated before, air is

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<v Speaker 1>not empty, right, it is stuff, it's molecules. It's more

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<v Speaker 1>like a soup. It's more like a soup that we

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<v Speaker 1>just hang out in all the time. Yeah, it obeys

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<v Speaker 1>the laws of fluid dynamics. Delicious nitrogen soup. Yeah. If

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<v Speaker 1>there weren't that stuff, we would be in a vacuum

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<v Speaker 1>and wouldn't be talking right now, because we'd be unable

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<v Speaker 1>to generate sound or breathe. But you know sound on

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<v Speaker 1>the same principle you've heard behind when you hear a

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<v Speaker 1>nerd get mad that while in this movie something blew

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<v Speaker 1>up in space and you heard it and you're not

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<v Speaker 1>You really shouldn't be able to hear it. Yeah, if

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<v Speaker 1>you were in the spacecraft, you would probably hear something.

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<v Speaker 1>For all the air escaped. Every spaceship is miked extensively. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe it's and that's what the filmmakers are using. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just that whatever whatever space camera is on, that

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<v Speaker 1>just automatically adds in the sound of an explosion, because

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<v Speaker 1>otherwise is are a little tiny human brains would crack. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>So when when the vibrations are moving, that causes the

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<v Speaker 1>air molecules to move in this process of compression and rarefaction.

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<v Speaker 1>That's essentially when air molecules are pressing together and then

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<v Speaker 1>spreading apart again. Now that causes the adjacent air molecules

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<v Speaker 1>to move, and so on and so forth until you

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<v Speaker 1>go from the source of the sound to an ear drum.

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<v Speaker 1>So when we're talking about the perception of sound, which

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<v Speaker 1>from us, for we humans tends to be through hearing,

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<v Speaker 1>but you can actually receive sound also through you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you could have a tactile sensation, you could feel sound.

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<v Speaker 1>But when we're talking about hearing, those air molecules end

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<v Speaker 1>up impacting our ear drums. Now, our ear drums are

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<v Speaker 1>really important. And it's a membrane that's attached to a

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<v Speaker 1>series of three small bones that are in our middle

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<v Speaker 1>ear that act as an amplifier. So your ear drums

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<v Speaker 1>starts to vibrate, these three small bones essentially amplify that

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<v Speaker 1>and they end up transmitting those vibrations to are to

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<v Speaker 1>the cochlea which has this fluid in it and little

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<v Speaker 1>tiny read like uh fibers, I guess you could say. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And those hair quot marks in the air, they're we're

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<v Speaker 1>really useful on audio. And those hairs have specific resonant frequencies.

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<v Speaker 1>So certain hairs will start to vibrate depending upon the

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<v Speaker 1>motion of the fluid, and other other hairs won't vibrate

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<v Speaker 1>because the resonance won't match up, you know, the rather,

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<v Speaker 1>the vibrations won't match up with their particular resonance, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And so the the hairs when they vibrate will send

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<v Speaker 1>a signal like like pop off a little neuron to

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<v Speaker 1>your brain saying like, hey, this hair vibrated, and your

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<v Speaker 1>brain amasses all of those signals from those hairs to say, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>this is what this thing sounds like. Right, So the

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<v Speaker 1>sound you are hearing right now as you listen to

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<v Speaker 1>this podcast is actually your brain interpreting those little vibrations

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<v Speaker 1>of reads and then sending little electrical impulses and then

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<v Speaker 1>there you go. So it's kind of cool and weird

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<v Speaker 1>also in a way to think like, oh, sound is

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<v Speaker 1>something that largely is happening inside my head. Like I

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<v Speaker 1>know that there actually is a physical manifestation of sound

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<v Speaker 1>because we have but but but ultimately our perception is

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<v Speaker 1>all in the head. It's not like if you take

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<v Speaker 1>the brain out that, uh you know, what would that

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<v Speaker 1>sound be like without that particular process. Who can say

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<v Speaker 1>that's not how we are, Like all reality is like

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<v Speaker 1>a dream man. Yeah, Yeah, that's toads where I was

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<v Speaker 1>going with that. So when we talk about about actually

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<v Speaker 1>measuring sound, there are three things we typically look at,

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<v Speaker 1>which are the frequency of the sound, the amplitude of

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<v Speaker 1>that sound, and the wavelength of the sound wave. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and one thing that makes this kind of difficult with

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<v Speaker 1>sound is that you usually picture these three variables in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of a transverse wave like light or like the

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<v Speaker 1>waves in the ocean shan, where the oscillation of the

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<v Speaker 1>wave is moving perpendicular to the motion of the wave.

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<v Speaker 1>So like you've often seen a picture of a wave,

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<v Speaker 1>it's little hoops going up and down along a central midpoint,

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<v Speaker 1>and sound is sort of the exception to that type

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<v Speaker 1>of wave of motion. It's not really like that. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a compression wave. It radiates outward from the source of

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<v Speaker 1>the sound as well, so the oscillation is going parallel

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<v Speaker 1>to the direction of the way right, and it's three dimensional,

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<v Speaker 1>But we do use that two dimensional representation of waves

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<v Speaker 1>to to look at sound waves because tiny delicate human brains. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's way easier, it's useful. Yeah, it ends up being

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<v Speaker 1>a useful way to describe the behavior of the sound waves.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's not that the like technically you could say

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<v Speaker 1>the depiction is not truly correct in the sense of

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<v Speaker 1>the way the waves behave, but it ends up being

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<v Speaker 1>useful for talking about things like um in versus, like

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<v Speaker 1>an inverted sound wave, and uh, you know, when you

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<v Speaker 1>pair it with the original sound wave what happens. Uh. So,

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<v Speaker 1>frequency is what we would normally associate with pitch, right, technically,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's it's this is the easiest way of

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<v Speaker 1>saying it. The higher the frequency, the higher the pitch. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>human hearing has a range of frequencies that typically we

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<v Speaker 1>can detect. Now, this is typical in the sense that

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<v Speaker 1>there are people who have a hearing range that can

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<v Speaker 1>go a little further outside of it, and there's some

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<v Speaker 1>people who it's narrower and um, typically we talk about

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<v Speaker 1>it being from twenty hurts, which is twenty cycles per second.

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<v Speaker 1>So that would be the frequency of you know, when

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<v Speaker 1>these waves would pass. Uh, twenty of those cycles in

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<v Speaker 1>the second would be one hurt or twenty hurts rather

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<v Speaker 1>or up to twenty killer hurts, which is twenty thousand

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<v Speaker 1>cycles per second. Uh. Again, that's a general rule of thumb.

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<v Speaker 1>Some humans can hear outside of those ranges, and some

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<v Speaker 1>are are are limited to a much narrower range. And

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<v Speaker 1>and really the range that we hear best in is

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<v Speaker 1>one killer hurts to about four killer hurts. Yeah, that

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<v Speaker 1>that tends to be the range we mostly encounter. And

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<v Speaker 1>are you know, like the range of human voices. It's

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<v Speaker 1>what we work in daily. Yeah, what is the singular

0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.240
<v Speaker 1>of killer hurts. It wouldn't be kill a hurt It's

0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.760
<v Speaker 1>it's still hurt hurts because hurts is named after Hurts

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.600
<v Speaker 1>named after a person. But you don't say hurts is right, Yeah,

0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:41.319
<v Speaker 1>it's it's four killer hurts is. It's like, dear, I'm

0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:44.439
<v Speaker 1>going to start saying that from now on, you're being

0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:48.439
<v Speaker 1>kill a hurtful all right? Anyway, moving on, always say

0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:53.000
<v Speaker 1>it at one hurts all right. Now, obviously, you can

0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.760
<v Speaker 1>have frequencies outside the range of human hearing, and these

0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.240
<v Speaker 1>frequencies can still have a physical effect, and we will

0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.440
<v Speaker 1>talk about any of those when we get into the

0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:04.960
<v Speaker 1>future uses of sound. Yeah. In fact, a lot of

0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.960
<v Speaker 1>times we specifically want to use frequencies of sound outside

0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.120
<v Speaker 1>the range of human hearing. Yeah, because if you're using

0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:12.959
<v Speaker 1>it within the range of human hearing, it could be

0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:17.400
<v Speaker 1>really irritating depending upon the application. Right. Uh So, next

0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.080
<v Speaker 1>we have the amplitude. So if you picture the transverse wave,

0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:23.320
<v Speaker 1>right we were talking about, that's going to be the

0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.880
<v Speaker 1>distance between the midpoint and the crest or the trough

0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:31.200
<v Speaker 1>of the wave, and uh, amplitude essentially ends up being

0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.560
<v Speaker 1>perceived as volume. So the greater the amplitude, the louder

0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.320
<v Speaker 1>the sound. So your your frequency determines the pitch, the

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.160
<v Speaker 1>amplitude determines the volume. Then you have wavelength. This is

0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:45.360
<v Speaker 1>the distance between two analogous points on two successive waves.

0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:47.840
<v Speaker 1>So you pick a point on one wave, you pick

0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.520
<v Speaker 1>essentially the same point on the next wave, and you

0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.160
<v Speaker 1>measure the distance between the two. That is the wavelength

0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.080
<v Speaker 1>of the sound wave. Very often you could just say

0:14:56.120 --> 0:15:01.040
<v Speaker 1>it's crest to crest, right. So this depends upon the

0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.480
<v Speaker 1>frequency and the medium through which the sound is traveling.

0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.640
<v Speaker 1>Wavelength can vary even within the air, again, depending upon

0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.120
<v Speaker 1>that temperature of the air or the humidity or the

0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:15.560
<v Speaker 1>density of the air. Um and wavelength of frequency are

0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.240
<v Speaker 1>inversely proportional to one another, So if the wavelength of

0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 1>a sound wave increases in uniform medium, the frequency decreases.

0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.840
<v Speaker 1>So uh, this is important when you're starting to figure

0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.840
<v Speaker 1>out things like the speed of sound through any given medium.

0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.240
<v Speaker 1>If you know the frequency and you know the wavelength,

0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.040
<v Speaker 1>then you multiply the two together and you get the

0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.760
<v Speaker 1>speed of sound. And it also comes into effect when

0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:41.080
<v Speaker 1>we're studying things like the Doppler effect, where the extension

0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:45.240
<v Speaker 1>or the compression of waves can affect the frequency right. Uh. Now,

0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.720
<v Speaker 1>we also need to talk about how sound waves can

0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.280
<v Speaker 1>interact with each other because they could do some pretty

0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:54.440
<v Speaker 1>interesting things. If you get two identical sound waves played together,

0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.040
<v Speaker 1>they can amplify one another, so their amplitude can be

0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.840
<v Speaker 1>uh additive. If you end up getting a sound wave

0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:04.280
<v Speaker 1>where it encounters its inverse, they cancel each other out.

0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.760
<v Speaker 1>This is the way noise canceling headphones work. They attempt

0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.280
<v Speaker 1>to create an inverse wave that would end up canceling

0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.680
<v Speaker 1>out all the noise that's around you, creating like a

0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:18.120
<v Speaker 1>little pocket of of dead sound air. Yeah, that's the

0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:22.320
<v Speaker 1>goal if they if they are working properly, Um, you

0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.120
<v Speaker 1>know your your mileage may vary depending upon the sound

0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.640
<v Speaker 1>canceling headphones. Uh. And two different sound waves that mixed

0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:31.720
<v Speaker 1>together end up creating like if you were to look

0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:34.240
<v Speaker 1>at this this depiction of a sound wave, it would

0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:38.000
<v Speaker 1>end up looking really super funky because the the the

0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.480
<v Speaker 1>troughs and crests would be affected by each other and

0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.200
<v Speaker 1>you would end up getting a result where if one

0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:46.080
<v Speaker 1>had a bit of a crest but the other one

0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:48.760
<v Speaker 1>had a deeper trough, then it's gonna look like, well,

0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:50.800
<v Speaker 1>now the new sound wave has a trough, but it's

0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:55.600
<v Speaker 1>not as deep as from two. Very complex and mathematical

0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.240
<v Speaker 1>and and actually I would totally love to have like

0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.800
<v Speaker 1>a like a sound engineer come on the show and

0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.880
<v Speaker 1>talk about it, because it is whoa like like way.

0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:06.520
<v Speaker 1>Every time I start thinking about it, my brain just

0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:09.680
<v Speaker 1>kind of goes It's it's also way easier to explain

0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:13.560
<v Speaker 1>if you have the the visual aids of nearby, and

0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.479
<v Speaker 1>then we do not obviously as an audio podcast. So

0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.000
<v Speaker 1>and it's kind of funny that you need visual aids

0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.399
<v Speaker 1>to explain sound that that is a rather amusing a

0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.080
<v Speaker 1>little I mean, it's I guess it's a less more

0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:28.560
<v Speaker 1>set version of ironic, don't you think. One more interesting

0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.159
<v Speaker 1>things sound waves can do when interacting with each other is,

0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:35.280
<v Speaker 1>for example, if you create an interference pattern with the

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.280
<v Speaker 1>sound wave and its reflection of itself off of a

0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:42.639
<v Speaker 1>hard surface, you can create a standing wave sound. And

0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.040
<v Speaker 1>we'll talk about those in a bit too. Yeah, that

0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.159
<v Speaker 1>they come into use in some of the technology, but

0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:51.240
<v Speaker 1>standing waves are a fascinating thing that can happen with

0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.680
<v Speaker 1>all kinds of wave phenomena in nature, which is Yeah,

0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:59.800
<v Speaker 1>one of those things that that or might seem counterintuitive

0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:03.000
<v Speaker 1>at first when you think about like, well, how could

0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.240
<v Speaker 1>how could sound do this thing? But as you learn

0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.680
<v Speaker 1>more and more health sound works, it starts to make sense.

0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:12.840
<v Speaker 1>It's just based upon what what we can directly observe

0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.879
<v Speaker 1>in our day to day lives. It seems really like, wow,

0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:20.160
<v Speaker 1>that's magic. Yeah, yeah, although it's not. I mean at

0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:24.240
<v Speaker 1>a at a more macro level, we've all experienced a

0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.360
<v Speaker 1>sonic boom, right, and and so we have some kind

0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.880
<v Speaker 1>of experience with what sound is this physical force? Right

0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.440
<v Speaker 1>that shows that this isn't just all in your head.

0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:36.880
<v Speaker 1>Even though the perception of sound maybe in your head,

0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 1>there's the you can physically feel sound like from a

0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.200
<v Speaker 1>sonic boom. You can feel that shock wave hit um

0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:46.199
<v Speaker 1>and uh. You know this is something where it's that

0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.840
<v Speaker 1>compression and rare affaction. You can't get that wave coming

0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.560
<v Speaker 1>out from a big event like a sonic boom. It

0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.159
<v Speaker 1>can do some damage, like remember when the meteorite passed

0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.720
<v Speaker 1>overhead of in various aerias in Rush, where there were

0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.480
<v Speaker 1>towns that were reporting that there were entire buildings that

0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.639
<v Speaker 1>add a face of the wall, all the glass just

0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:11.879
<v Speaker 1>shattering because that that pressure wave was so powerful. So

0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:16.760
<v Speaker 1>sound is definitely something that can have a big impact,

0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.840
<v Speaker 1>literally a big impact. Now, we talked a little bit

0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:21.960
<v Speaker 1>about the speed of sound. That sound travels at a

0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:25.800
<v Speaker 1>uniform speed depending upon the medium through which it travels.

0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.880
<v Speaker 1>So if you want sound to travel faster or slower,

0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:32.800
<v Speaker 1>really all you can do is affect the medium. You

0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.480
<v Speaker 1>can either transition it from one medium to another, or

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.800
<v Speaker 1>you affect that those physical parameters of the medium. You

0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.960
<v Speaker 1>can't do it by increasing the frequency or the wavelength

0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:45.280
<v Speaker 1>because if you if you make the frequency, if you

0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:49.159
<v Speaker 1>increase the frequency, the wavelength will decrease because they're inversely proportional.

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:53.120
<v Speaker 1>If you increase the wavelength, then the frequency will decrease

0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.760
<v Speaker 1>again inversely proportional. So the only way you can make

0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.400
<v Speaker 1>the sound travel at a different speed, because remember that's

0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:01.639
<v Speaker 1>the product of wavelength and frequency, The only way you

0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:03.879
<v Speaker 1>can make the sound travel at a different speed is

0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:08.239
<v Speaker 1>to change the medium in some way. So that's kind

0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.840
<v Speaker 1>of interesting too. Now that might mean transferring it from

0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.880
<v Speaker 1>one medium to another, like a solid to a gas,

0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.760
<v Speaker 1>or one liquid to another liquid, or anything along those lines,

0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.840
<v Speaker 1>or it might mean that you physically change the medium

0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.760
<v Speaker 1>in some way, um you create you know, like if

0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.640
<v Speaker 1>you increase the tension on a drumhead, technically you're stretching

0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:33.280
<v Speaker 1>everything out. That changes the nature of that matter. So, uh,

0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.280
<v Speaker 1>that is important to remember as well, because knowing that

0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:39.359
<v Speaker 1>the sound of the speed of sound is going to

0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:43.280
<v Speaker 1>be constant gives us lots of opportunities to use sound

0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:47.320
<v Speaker 1>in super cool ways. Right Yeah, what once you once

0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:51.320
<v Speaker 1>you batten down a single variable in a scientific experiment,

0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:53.359
<v Speaker 1>of course, that gives you a lot of opportunity to

0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.119
<v Speaker 1>play with the others, right, right. So one of the

0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.840
<v Speaker 1>ways that people are going to be most familiar with

0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:03.600
<v Speaker 1>using sound as a sort of like novel technological tool

0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:06.840
<v Speaker 1>will be in medicine. Yes, I mean many people have

0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:11.960
<v Speaker 1>themselves undergone an ultrasound right yeah, yeah, it's pretty common. Yeah,

0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.840
<v Speaker 1>it's very common. So you can have like ultrasound imaging

0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:17.359
<v Speaker 1>as a way of like getting a look at what's

0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:19.720
<v Speaker 1>inside your body. A lot of times this will be

0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.959
<v Speaker 1>done during a pregnancy or to try to diagnose you know,

0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.800
<v Speaker 1>gall bladder stones or any kind of thing like that,

0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.280
<v Speaker 1>or you could use it as a tool, say to

0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:34.560
<v Speaker 1>for example, dissolve kidney stones. But there are lots of

0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:37.800
<v Speaker 1>new ways that people might be using ultrasound in medicine,

0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:45.439
<v Speaker 1>for example, even in diagnosing cancer. Yeah, and actually ultrasound

0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.840
<v Speaker 1>is currently being used in diagnosing cancer. I'm going to

0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.240
<v Speaker 1>talk about a super fancy sound method in a minute,

0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:53.959
<v Speaker 1>but let's let's talk about this ultrasound specifically as it

0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:57.719
<v Speaker 1>relates to cancer, because it is so fascinating to me. Okay,

0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:01.480
<v Speaker 1>So various imaging method these days are used to screen

0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.320
<v Speaker 1>for tumors within a patient's body, And it's pretty cool

0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:08.080
<v Speaker 1>that we have imaging methods because, uh, they're really good

0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.120
<v Speaker 1>at detecting cancer in its early stages before it's done

0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:13.960
<v Speaker 1>too much damage. They're all pretty new. Like previous to

0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:17.359
<v Speaker 1>the late nineteen sixties, tumors were basically discovered by either

0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.000
<v Speaker 1>looking at them or poking them, and that's almost the

0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:25.479
<v Speaker 1>technical term really, or just like waiting until the patient

0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:27.439
<v Speaker 1>symptoms developed to the point that a doctor thought it

0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.240
<v Speaker 1>was worthwhile to cut them open and see what was

0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:33.240
<v Speaker 1>going on. And that's the other way in which imaging

0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:35.560
<v Speaker 1>is cool, of course, as a screening method, because most

0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:39.040
<v Speaker 1>forms of it are pretty safe and non invasive. From

0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:41.840
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen twenties to the nineteen sixties, a few tests

0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:44.840
<v Speaker 1>were developed that could detect cancerous or pre cancerous cells

0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:48.480
<v Speaker 1>from like membrane swabs or urine or fecal matter, but

0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:53.280
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't until the late nineteen sixties that researchers developed mammography,

0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:56.199
<v Speaker 1>which of course is a specialized X ray method for

0:22:56.320 --> 0:23:00.399
<v Speaker 1>viewing breast tissue that became the first widely used imaging

0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:04.400
<v Speaker 1>method for cancer. But in the early nineteen eighties, researchers

0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:09.919
<v Speaker 1>began developing other imaging methods, starting with ultrasound. Uh yeah,

0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:13.040
<v Speaker 1>so it was first used in the detection of prostate cancer,

0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:15.760
<v Speaker 1>though it's since been found to be no more accurate

0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:20.840
<v Speaker 1>than a classic touch based digital examination from a trained doctor,

0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:25.679
<v Speaker 1>and these days, ultrasound is mostly used in combination with

0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:28.960
<v Speaker 1>other tests like like mammograms or blood tests or biopsies,

0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:32.560
<v Speaker 1>in patients that have particularly high risks of developing cancer,

0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:35.840
<v Speaker 1>or when other methods wouldn't be as effective due to

0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:40.480
<v Speaker 1>some other physical factor about the patient's body, or when

0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:43.280
<v Speaker 1>doctors aren't sure whether a lump is assist or tumor

0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:46.880
<v Speaker 1>and they don't want to jump straight to biopsy. And

0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:49.720
<v Speaker 1>what you may be asking is how can as ultrasound

0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:52.320
<v Speaker 1>possibly tell the difference between assistant a tumor, and that

0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:55.399
<v Speaker 1>is going back to the speed of sound. Assist is

0:23:55.640 --> 0:23:59.239
<v Speaker 1>liquid filled, so a sound wave will bounce off it,

0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:02.600
<v Speaker 1>or sound wave will interact with it differently than it

0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:07.360
<v Speaker 1>will with a solid tumor. So let's talk a little

0:24:07.400 --> 0:24:10.760
<v Speaker 1>bit about how this this actually works in your body.

0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:14.359
<v Speaker 1>It's considered really safe. You know, it's just sound waves,

0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:17.480
<v Speaker 1>so there's an extremely low risk of any harmful side effects,

0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:21.560
<v Speaker 1>and it's super cheap compared to like computerist tomography or

0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:24.439
<v Speaker 1>m r I. It's not as detailed, I mean, and

0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:28.760
<v Speaker 1>the downsides of ultrasound used in medical applications is that

0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:31.000
<v Speaker 1>it's it's hard to get good images through a lot

0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:33.920
<v Speaker 1>of fat tissue, and it's impossible to get images through

0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:37.919
<v Speaker 1>uh like air filled lungs or dense bones or anything

0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:42.119
<v Speaker 1>like that. So ultrasonic waves are are really high frequency

0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:45.879
<v Speaker 1>sound waves. And therefore ultrasound is a form of scenography

0:24:46.000 --> 0:24:48.439
<v Speaker 1>that that uses these things that are that are just

0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:50.639
<v Speaker 1>way above the human hearing level, like like one to

0:24:50.720 --> 0:24:55.679
<v Speaker 1>one point five mega hurts hurts millions of cycles per second,

0:24:55.840 --> 0:24:59.040
<v Speaker 1>right right, um, And I mean y'all know how how

0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:02.240
<v Speaker 1>sonar works, Yeah, You've got a transmitter and receiver that

0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:05.200
<v Speaker 1>sends out a sound wave, receives echoes of that wave

0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:07.640
<v Speaker 1>once it's bounced off of an object, and then determines

0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:09.800
<v Speaker 1>how far away the object is based on the time

0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:13.119
<v Speaker 1>it took for the echo to return, uh, and the

0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:16.280
<v Speaker 1>speed of sound through the medium in question, air, water,

0:25:16.760 --> 0:25:21.360
<v Speaker 1>or your body, or et cetera. UM. So ultrasonography is

0:25:21.359 --> 0:25:24.680
<v Speaker 1>is sonar just turned up to eleven? Uh? You can?

0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:27.399
<v Speaker 1>You can? You can use what's called a transducer probe.

0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:29.760
<v Speaker 1>And and and that's the that's the kind of stick or

0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:32.800
<v Speaker 1>like mouse looking thing that you might have seen or

0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:36.560
<v Speaker 1>or had used on on you during an ultrasound um

0:25:36.720 --> 0:25:40.320
<v Speaker 1>and and it can send out millions of ultrasonic pulses

0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:43.800
<v Speaker 1>every second the sound waves bounce off of the different

0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:46.000
<v Speaker 1>kinds of tissue in the patient's body and back to

0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:48.320
<v Speaker 1>the probe. And the probe is sensitive enough and the

0:25:48.359 --> 0:25:51.920
<v Speaker 1>computer it's attached to is clever enough that it can

0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:55.479
<v Speaker 1>track and collect those millions of signals and turn them

0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:58.080
<v Speaker 1>into a real time image of the surfaces that the

0:25:58.119 --> 0:26:01.399
<v Speaker 1>waves are reflecting off of. Because we can track the

0:26:01.440 --> 0:26:03.560
<v Speaker 1>time the waves took to get back, and we know

0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:07.080
<v Speaker 1>how fast. The waves travel through different tissues muscle, bone

0:26:07.119 --> 0:26:10.120
<v Speaker 1>and fat and tumors and etcetera, So a tumor will

0:26:10.240 --> 0:26:14.959
<v Speaker 1>look different than the surrounding tissue. Interesting also, you know,

0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:17.920
<v Speaker 1>And just to to kind of add to that, not

0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:21.760
<v Speaker 1>for ultra sound, but for sonar. One of the other

0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:24.560
<v Speaker 1>cool things is what we mentioned earlier, what Joe mentioned

0:26:24.560 --> 0:26:27.840
<v Speaker 1>about about the Doppler effect. You can even with sonar,

0:26:27.960 --> 0:26:31.199
<v Speaker 1>tell if something is moving towards you or moving away

0:26:31.240 --> 0:26:34.400
<v Speaker 1>from you based upon the nature of the sound wave

0:26:34.440 --> 0:26:38.919
<v Speaker 1>that echoes back. Again, not really relevant and ultrasound, but

0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:41.920
<v Speaker 1>one of those things that one of the other main

0:26:42.040 --> 0:26:44.520
<v Speaker 1>uses of sound. Not just by us either. There are

0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:47.680
<v Speaker 1>a lot of creatures that use ultrasound like echolocation. So

0:26:48.000 --> 0:26:51.440
<v Speaker 1>all of this is really cool, But the biggest danger

0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:56.280
<v Speaker 1>of cancer isn't from a single tumor itself, but from metastasis.

0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:59.440
<v Speaker 1>That's when cancer spreads from one tumor site to somewhere

0:26:59.440 --> 0:27:02.400
<v Speaker 1>else in the body. And the way that this happens

0:27:02.480 --> 0:27:05.240
<v Speaker 1>is when cells or very small clusters of cells break

0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:08.399
<v Speaker 1>off from a tumor and get into the bloodstream or

0:27:08.440 --> 0:27:10.600
<v Speaker 1>the lymph system and travel to another part of the

0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:18.160
<v Speaker 1>body and begin multiplying there or or spurring abnormal growth annunciation, yes,

0:27:18.400 --> 0:27:23.679
<v Speaker 1>sound waves. So these these cells are called circulating tumor

0:27:23.720 --> 0:27:27.600
<v Speaker 1>cells or CTCs, and they cannot be detected by ultrasound

0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:30.399
<v Speaker 1>or even the more sensitive imaging methods like m r

0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:34.560
<v Speaker 1>I or CT scans. Now, these cells were first hypothesized

0:27:34.560 --> 0:27:40.000
<v Speaker 1>all the way back in nine but their exact capacity

0:27:40.240 --> 0:27:43.879
<v Speaker 1>and really the entire process of metastasis has been a

0:27:43.880 --> 0:27:47.439
<v Speaker 1>subject of study and debate ever since then. The current

0:27:47.480 --> 0:27:51.480
<v Speaker 1>popular theory says that CTCs are basically cancer stem cells,

0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:57.640
<v Speaker 1>which I mean, I mean, it's really it's really fascinating.

0:27:57.720 --> 0:27:59.080
<v Speaker 1>It's it's one of those things that I get so

0:27:59.119 --> 0:28:01.399
<v Speaker 1>excited about and then feel really bad about being so

0:28:01.440 --> 0:28:05.760
<v Speaker 1>excited about. I feel like, I feel like Egon, You're

0:28:05.800 --> 0:28:10.960
<v Speaker 1>like Ian Holme and Alien. I admire its purity exactly.

0:28:12.240 --> 0:28:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Um So, despite the fact that we don't really know

0:28:14.520 --> 0:28:16.480
<v Speaker 1>what's going on with ctc s, it's pretty safe to

0:28:16.480 --> 0:28:18.040
<v Speaker 1>say that it would be cool to be able to

0:28:18.040 --> 0:28:20.399
<v Speaker 1>detect them in the blood stream of a patient with

0:28:20.440 --> 0:28:23.880
<v Speaker 1>a tumor in order to inform advice on further treatment

0:28:23.920 --> 0:28:28.520
<v Speaker 1>of that tumor and to recommend future screenings. But they

0:28:28.560 --> 0:28:30.760
<v Speaker 1>are really hard to find. You can only expect to

0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:34.399
<v Speaker 1>find like one ctc per billion blood cells and a sample,

0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:36.960
<v Speaker 1>and you said that we can't currently find these with

0:28:37.080 --> 0:28:40.320
<v Speaker 1>ultrasound or any other imaging method that is correct. The

0:28:40.520 --> 0:28:44.120
<v Speaker 1>ways that we currently have to detect them um usually

0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:47.080
<v Speaker 1>either will damage the CTC, which sucks because then you

0:28:47.080 --> 0:28:51.000
<v Speaker 1>can't study it further, or just just they're not very effective.

0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:56.400
<v Speaker 1>And we do have some acoustic separation methods for getting

0:28:56.440 --> 0:29:00.600
<v Speaker 1>CTCs out of a blood sample, but they've satically fallen

0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:03.400
<v Speaker 1>into that latter category that the technology just hasn't been

0:29:03.800 --> 0:29:07.480
<v Speaker 1>good enough. The devices used have been slow and awkward

0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:11.800
<v Speaker 1>and kind of finicky, but acoustic methods don't harm or

0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:15.720
<v Speaker 1>mark or otherwise mess with the cells, so science has

0:29:15.760 --> 0:29:19.400
<v Speaker 1>been working on it. Yeah, this is a pretty exciting stuff.

0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:22.000
<v Speaker 1>I read this story and originally I was gonna say

0:29:22.240 --> 0:29:25.440
<v Speaker 1>researchers from but then I looked at all the different

0:29:25.520 --> 0:29:28.320
<v Speaker 1>groups and there's like six different universities that are all

0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:31.040
<v Speaker 1>associated with the study. Yeah, I think it was all

0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:34.320
<v Speaker 1>being headed out of a single university and I did

0:29:34.360 --> 0:29:36.760
<v Speaker 1>not write it down in the notes. That is a

0:29:36.880 --> 0:29:40.480
<v Speaker 1>really good tangent um. But but yeah, the fascinating part

0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:43.440
<v Speaker 1>about the study is that it's it's so interdisciplinary. Yah,

0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:48.040
<v Speaker 1>it's a combination of cancer research and uh, device creation

0:29:48.200 --> 0:29:51.760
<v Speaker 1>and microchips and sound waves. Yeah, you've got engineers, you've

0:29:51.800 --> 0:29:55.600
<v Speaker 1>got oncologists, you've got all sorts of experts in various

0:29:55.640 --> 0:29:59.560
<v Speaker 1>fields that all have worked together on this, and uh,

0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:02.800
<v Speaker 1>it's a little and it's one of those things I say,

0:30:02.840 --> 0:30:05.120
<v Speaker 1>it's a little complicated, which mostly means that's code for

0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:09.520
<v Speaker 1>Jonathan sort of but maybe not really understands how this works.

0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:11.880
<v Speaker 1>But it does come back to that idea that sound

0:30:11.920 --> 0:30:19.120
<v Speaker 1>has a physical like exertion, like it can push. Um. So, first,

0:30:19.160 --> 0:30:22.400
<v Speaker 1>what you have to imagine is a micro fluid I channel,

0:30:22.440 --> 0:30:26.000
<v Speaker 1>so a very narrow channel. Yeah, this is a device

0:30:26.120 --> 0:30:29.040
<v Speaker 1>that's maybe about the size of a quarter or so,

0:30:29.160 --> 0:30:33.400
<v Speaker 1>like maybe like a half dollar. Yeah. Now it has transducers,

0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:36.479
<v Speaker 1>which are the things that can convert electricity to sound,

0:30:36.920 --> 0:30:41.040
<v Speaker 1>all right, So they are used as essentially ultrasonic emitters,

0:30:41.080 --> 0:30:45.040
<v Speaker 1>and the transducers collectively produce what what was called in

0:30:45.080 --> 0:30:49.880
<v Speaker 1>the study a tilted angle standing surface sound wave, or

0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:53.040
<v Speaker 1>actually a collection of them sound waves, I should say. Uh,

0:30:53.120 --> 0:30:55.480
<v Speaker 1>so these are waves that contain points that were called

0:30:55.560 --> 0:30:58.640
<v Speaker 1>nodes that stands still relative to the rest of the wave.

0:30:59.280 --> 0:31:02.560
<v Speaker 1>So you get your your blood sample flowing through this

0:31:02.720 --> 0:31:07.160
<v Speaker 1>micro fluid channel with the transducers. Uh, they encounter these

0:31:07.240 --> 0:31:11.360
<v Speaker 1>nodes and anti noodes that exert force through this acoustic pressure,

0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:15.720
<v Speaker 1>and the pressure ends up pushing the different cells in

0:31:15.800 --> 0:31:19.400
<v Speaker 1>different trajectories. So the CTCs get pushed off in one

0:31:19.440 --> 0:31:23.160
<v Speaker 1>trajectory and the blood cells into a different trajectory. Uh.

0:31:23.200 --> 0:31:28.160
<v Speaker 1>And this continues down the channel, so successive transducers add

0:31:28.200 --> 0:31:31.720
<v Speaker 1>to that effect. So the initial change in trajectory is

0:31:31.760 --> 0:31:33.760
<v Speaker 1>so small that it would be difficult to detect. But

0:31:34.480 --> 0:31:37.240
<v Speaker 1>because this is happening again and again through this very

0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:41.080
<v Speaker 1>tiny channel, Yeah, you get this this like microsecond of

0:31:41.080 --> 0:31:44.240
<v Speaker 1>of sound pushing at something. And eventually, with enough of

0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:48.720
<v Speaker 1>those little pushes down the channel, the the different types

0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:51.680
<v Speaker 1>of cells will separate themselves out right. So that way

0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:56.080
<v Speaker 1>you end up having your blood cells and your CTCs. Uh.

0:31:56.080 --> 0:32:00.360
<v Speaker 1>And you can actually then really study the CTC and

0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:05.320
<v Speaker 1>they haven't been damaged, right right. Yeah, they're ultrasonic waves,

0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:08.000
<v Speaker 1>so they don't damage tissue as we talked about earlier,

0:32:08.280 --> 0:32:11.640
<v Speaker 1>and and you can tune the wavelengths to cur to

0:32:11.720 --> 0:32:16.000
<v Speaker 1>correspond to the size and weight of particular particles. Uh.

0:32:16.120 --> 0:32:19.480
<v Speaker 1>The these these cancer cells are generally a little bit

0:32:19.640 --> 0:32:23.240
<v Speaker 1>larger and heavier than red blood cells. Certainly maybe along

0:32:23.280 --> 0:32:26.360
<v Speaker 1>the along the same size lines of white blood cells.

0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:30.360
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, what once you once you've sorted them out, Oh,

0:32:30.400 --> 0:32:33.520
<v Speaker 1>it's so cool. Yeah, And what I thought was amazing

0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:37.600
<v Speaker 1>about this approach was that you can tune those transducers.

0:32:37.600 --> 0:32:42.000
<v Speaker 1>You could develop transducers for specific types of CTCs, right,

0:32:42.360 --> 0:32:45.840
<v Speaker 1>and that would make them very efficient. However, they discovered

0:32:45.840 --> 0:32:49.600
<v Speaker 1>that even if you didn't tune them, they were efficient enough,

0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:54.280
<v Speaker 1>so that was still an incredible gain over other methods.

0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:56.720
<v Speaker 1>They found that they could capture eight three per cent

0:32:56.880 --> 0:32:59.920
<v Speaker 1>of the CTCs within a sample, even if the trend

0:33:00.000 --> 0:33:03.640
<v Speaker 1>inducers were not tuned to that specific type of CTC. Yeah,

0:33:03.880 --> 0:33:06.560
<v Speaker 1>they optimized the device for a couple types of cancer

0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:10.560
<v Speaker 1>cells HeLa cells and MCF seven cells, and those two

0:33:10.560 --> 0:33:12.840
<v Speaker 1>are both pretty similar in size. But then they ran

0:33:12.880 --> 0:33:15.040
<v Speaker 1>the experiment with other types of cancer cells and it

0:33:15.080 --> 0:33:19.320
<v Speaker 1>worked just as well. Uh. They're calling this method acoustic tweezers,

0:33:19.440 --> 0:33:22.440
<v Speaker 1>and the team is looking now into how to make

0:33:22.480 --> 0:33:26.240
<v Speaker 1>these devices disposable because you're dealing with patient blood samples

0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:31.240
<v Speaker 1>so disposable, mass producible, and keeping the costs down because

0:33:31.400 --> 0:33:34.440
<v Speaker 1>right now it's a pretty cheap technology. Yeah, so this

0:33:34.520 --> 0:33:39.280
<v Speaker 1>could be a really huge benefit for uh, for for

0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:42.200
<v Speaker 1>doctors who are who need to do something like a

0:33:42.240 --> 0:33:46.360
<v Speaker 1>liquid biopsy on a patient. Well, that's amazing. But of

0:33:46.400 --> 0:33:50.040
<v Speaker 1>course that's not the only way that science is pushing

0:33:50.080 --> 0:33:55.240
<v Speaker 1>the boundaries of our uses of ultrasound into strange new territory.

0:33:55.320 --> 0:33:59.800
<v Speaker 1>And I love the us the word pushed. Yeah. Yeah, Well,

0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:08.000
<v Speaker 1>tweezing the boundaries has tweez a verb, yese, tweezing the

0:34:08.000 --> 0:34:13.000
<v Speaker 1>boundaries of medical science and ultrasound. Because here's something interesting

0:34:13.040 --> 0:34:15.040
<v Speaker 1>I came across a while back when I was writing

0:34:15.160 --> 0:34:19.719
<v Speaker 1>about brain to brain communication. We've talked before on the

0:34:19.760 --> 0:34:26.759
<v Speaker 1>podcast about transcranial direct current stimulation and transcranial magnetic stimulation.

0:34:27.239 --> 0:34:31.160
<v Speaker 1>They're these strange methods science have figured out may be

0:34:31.360 --> 0:34:33.800
<v Speaker 1>able to affect the brain. I think the jury is

0:34:33.880 --> 0:34:36.759
<v Speaker 1>still out in a lot of ways on like what

0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:39.440
<v Speaker 1>exactly the effect is and how useful it is. But

0:34:40.560 --> 0:34:46.960
<v Speaker 1>they're using electricity or strong magnet electromagnetic forces to cause

0:34:47.080 --> 0:34:51.000
<v Speaker 1>stimulation in certain like targeted regions of the brain to

0:34:51.320 --> 0:34:54.840
<v Speaker 1>hopefully produce a desired effect in an experiment and without

0:34:54.960 --> 0:34:58.879
<v Speaker 1>the need for invasive surgery. That's the transcranial part. Yeah,

0:34:58.960 --> 0:35:00.919
<v Speaker 1>so you don't have to open person up and put

0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:04.120
<v Speaker 1>electrodes inside the parts of their brain that you want

0:35:04.120 --> 0:35:06.560
<v Speaker 1>to mess with. Yeah. We talked about this about how

0:35:06.719 --> 0:35:10.040
<v Speaker 1>some people were doing it to themselves with small like

0:35:10.160 --> 0:35:13.600
<v Speaker 1>electrodes attached to their temple. And we're not recommended to

0:35:13.719 --> 0:35:16.399
<v Speaker 1>try this at home, folks, but yes, some people out

0:35:16.440 --> 0:35:18.480
<v Speaker 1>there do think it makes them smarter if they hook

0:35:18.520 --> 0:35:20.759
<v Speaker 1>a nine volt battery up to their scalp. It's odd

0:35:20.800 --> 0:35:26.680
<v Speaker 1>I feel smarter about not detching ninevola um. But there's

0:35:26.680 --> 0:35:31.560
<v Speaker 1>another method actually is out there for non invasive brain stimulation,

0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:36.200
<v Speaker 1>and instead of being based on electricity or electromagnetism, this

0:35:36.280 --> 0:35:41.640
<v Speaker 1>is based on ultrasounds. It's known as transcranial focused ultrasound. Right.

0:35:41.840 --> 0:35:44.520
<v Speaker 1>H There was a paper that was published in and

0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:48.720
<v Speaker 1>Nature Neuroscience that was all about experimentation in this research

0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:52.880
<v Speaker 1>into this field of using ultrasonic frequencies. So very similar

0:35:53.520 --> 0:35:57.080
<v Speaker 1>in in many ways to the methods that Joe was

0:35:57.160 --> 0:36:01.520
<v Speaker 1>just talking about, except instead of using magnetic fours or electricity.

0:36:01.800 --> 0:36:06.120
<v Speaker 1>You're using very focused beams of ultrasonic frequencies aimed at

0:36:06.160 --> 0:36:10.640
<v Speaker 1>particular areas of the brain, and it turns out it

0:36:10.719 --> 0:36:14.920
<v Speaker 1>does seem to have an effect. The paper specifically talked

0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:19.480
<v Speaker 1>about the research that went into using this focused ultrasound

0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:23.400
<v Speaker 1>on the so much somata sensory cortex. So essentially they

0:36:23.600 --> 0:36:26.480
<v Speaker 1>the area where we have our our our senses, you

0:36:26.520 --> 0:36:29.839
<v Speaker 1>know that that part of our brain. That's that's uh. Particularly,

0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:35.160
<v Speaker 1>they were targeting tactile uh census, so our sense of touch.

0:36:36.080 --> 0:36:40.160
<v Speaker 1>So here's what was going on in the actual research.

0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:44.800
<v Speaker 1>They focused beams of sound waves at five killer hurts,

0:36:44.840 --> 0:36:48.120
<v Speaker 1>so well above that twenty killer hurts range of human

0:36:48.120 --> 0:36:51.400
<v Speaker 1>hearing and for the record, well above the hearing range

0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:57.879
<v Speaker 1>of basically any animal. Yeah. Uh, So they targeted this

0:36:58.000 --> 0:37:02.799
<v Speaker 1>through the skull at that cortex, and they saw that

0:37:02.840 --> 0:37:06.680
<v Speaker 1>there did seem to be some effect of the quote

0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:10.680
<v Speaker 1>modulation of the firing of neurons end quote. So how

0:37:10.719 --> 0:37:15.160
<v Speaker 1>how was that a thing? This is where science looks

0:37:15.160 --> 0:37:19.680
<v Speaker 1>at us and just goes there's an effect, but the

0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:24.040
<v Speaker 1>actual mechanism of the effect is not understood at this time.

0:37:24.080 --> 0:37:28.480
<v Speaker 1>There are some hypotheses about what's going on. But there's

0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:31.160
<v Speaker 1>not you know, there's not a oh it does this

0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:34.800
<v Speaker 1>because of this? So what are some of those hypotheses.

0:37:34.840 --> 0:37:36.399
<v Speaker 1>This is the one that was in the paper, which

0:37:36.440 --> 0:37:39.520
<v Speaker 1>I love. So it says the pulse acoustic pressure wave

0:37:39.719 --> 0:37:44.560
<v Speaker 1>may locally shift the balance of excitation and inhibition by

0:37:44.600 --> 0:37:49.759
<v Speaker 1>acting on mechanically sensitive components of the brain, including cell membranes,

0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:54.440
<v Speaker 1>ion channels, and synaptic vesicle cycles. So, in other words,

0:37:55.280 --> 0:37:59.960
<v Speaker 1>if I can paraphrase, it's affecting the modulation of neuronal

0:38:00.000 --> 0:38:04.560
<v Speaker 1>activity by poking stuff with sound. So it sounded like

0:38:04.600 --> 0:38:08.040
<v Speaker 1>to me the method of poking your brain without cutting

0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:11.320
<v Speaker 1>your skull open, right right, It's that same pushing effect

0:38:11.400 --> 0:38:14.120
<v Speaker 1>that we were talking about with the cancer cells, right yeah.

0:38:14.560 --> 0:38:17.799
<v Speaker 1>So so it's just just really localized. I like to

0:38:17.840 --> 0:38:20.320
<v Speaker 1>think of it as like, because I'm from the Deep South,

0:38:21.000 --> 0:38:22.120
<v Speaker 1>I like to think of it as a bunch of

0:38:22.160 --> 0:38:24.440
<v Speaker 1>guys just standing around with a little sound emitter saying, hey,

0:38:24.480 --> 0:38:29.160
<v Speaker 1>y'all watch this. Now. Clearly that is not what happened,

0:38:29.560 --> 0:38:31.000
<v Speaker 1>But I thought you were going to say it's like

0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:32.920
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of guys standing around a possum and a

0:38:33.000 --> 0:38:35.560
<v Speaker 1>ditch poking it with the stick. Well, you know, we're

0:38:36.600 --> 0:38:40.399
<v Speaker 1>my my my chart of the evolution of man kind

0:38:40.440 --> 0:38:42.960
<v Speaker 1>of resembles what you're talking about right there. It's we

0:38:43.000 --> 0:38:46.560
<v Speaker 1>don't know that. These scientists involved didn't sit there going like,

0:38:46.680 --> 0:38:51.480
<v Speaker 1>hey guys, so now we can say allegedly because we're alleged, No, no,

0:38:51.640 --> 0:38:55.439
<v Speaker 1>we're not. But potentially this could mean, let's all right,

0:38:55.680 --> 0:38:58.799
<v Speaker 1>the mechanisms aside, we don't understand the mechanisms fully yet

0:38:58.920 --> 0:39:01.920
<v Speaker 1>or really we just had some vague ideas of what's

0:39:01.920 --> 0:39:06.359
<v Speaker 1>going on. But that aside, ultrasonic stimulation might be able

0:39:06.400 --> 0:39:11.120
<v Speaker 1>to offer neuroscientists a more precise tool for neuronal stimulation,

0:39:11.840 --> 0:39:16.120
<v Speaker 1>in other words, using magnets, using electricity. It can be

0:39:16.680 --> 0:39:18.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, you're you're kind of aiming in the general

0:39:18.680 --> 0:39:21.319
<v Speaker 1>direction of the area you wish to affect, knowing that

0:39:21.360 --> 0:39:25.960
<v Speaker 1>you're also probably going to affect some surrounding areas, right

0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:29.239
<v Speaker 1>That might have consequences, and it may have it may

0:39:29.320 --> 0:39:32.960
<v Speaker 1>end up affecting the outcome of your research without you

0:39:33.000 --> 0:39:35.759
<v Speaker 1>being able to, you know, use a full level of

0:39:35.800 --> 0:39:40.600
<v Speaker 1>confidence about what's actually happening. This would allow perhaps a

0:39:40.600 --> 0:39:45.480
<v Speaker 1>greater level of precision. Uh still not you know, pinpoint precision.

0:39:45.480 --> 0:39:47.600
<v Speaker 1>We're talking about the area that would be about the

0:39:47.640 --> 0:39:50.680
<v Speaker 1>size of the tip of your little fingers. So not

0:39:50.840 --> 0:39:57.080
<v Speaker 1>like you couldn't target specifics neurons, you could target clusters. UH.

0:39:57.120 --> 0:40:01.720
<v Speaker 1>But it also could be h method of safely testing

0:40:01.760 --> 0:40:04.600
<v Speaker 1>this because again we don't have to worry about causing

0:40:04.600 --> 0:40:09.200
<v Speaker 1>tissue damage uh. And the research itself, they looked at

0:40:10.120 --> 0:40:15.720
<v Speaker 1>how this actually did allow the people undergoing the tests

0:40:16.239 --> 0:40:20.759
<v Speaker 1>to have a better ability to detect subtle differences in

0:40:20.800 --> 0:40:25.840
<v Speaker 1>tactile sensations. So imagine that you have two different things

0:40:26.600 --> 0:40:31.200
<v Speaker 1>that come into contact with your skin, and perhaps the

0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:34.839
<v Speaker 1>difference between the two are there there. You know, from

0:40:34.880 --> 0:40:38.640
<v Speaker 1>from a tactile sensation standpoint, they are not that different

0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:42.799
<v Speaker 1>from one another. They discovered that using this ultrasonic stimulation,

0:40:43.120 --> 0:40:46.960
<v Speaker 1>people who the people who did have that we're better

0:40:47.000 --> 0:40:51.040
<v Speaker 1>able to tell the differences between the different tactiles stimulations

0:40:51.040 --> 0:40:54.480
<v Speaker 1>than was who did not. So they had an increased

0:40:54.520 --> 0:40:58.560
<v Speaker 1>facility from their sense of touch, which means that you

0:40:58.640 --> 0:41:02.880
<v Speaker 1>might be able to through this modulation do lots of

0:41:02.920 --> 0:41:08.960
<v Speaker 1>different things, including you could potentially address various disorders, could

0:41:08.960 --> 0:41:12.520
<v Speaker 1>be part of physical therapy YEP. It might even eventually

0:41:13.000 --> 0:41:16.319
<v Speaker 1>become something similar to what we've seen with the transcranial stimulation,

0:41:16.520 --> 0:41:19.239
<v Speaker 1>like the direct current stimulation. The idea of being able

0:41:19.280 --> 0:41:23.080
<v Speaker 1>to boost things like a learning ability that, of course

0:41:23.320 --> 0:41:26.359
<v Speaker 1>is so far off into the future though, that's way

0:41:26.360 --> 0:41:30.320
<v Speaker 1>trickier than than touch. Yeah, we're we're we're talking about

0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:34.839
<v Speaker 1>there's potential, but that potential may never be realized. Yeah.

0:41:34.840 --> 0:41:37.080
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't describe it in terms of time. I don't

0:41:37.080 --> 0:41:39.480
<v Speaker 1>know IF's necessarily so far off. I describe it in

0:41:39.560 --> 0:41:42.440
<v Speaker 1>terms of uncertainty, like we don't really know, I mean,

0:41:42.520 --> 0:41:44.960
<v Speaker 1>far off from a sense of what we are capable

0:41:44.960 --> 0:41:47.160
<v Speaker 1>of knowing right now, as opposed to I mean it

0:41:47.200 --> 0:41:51.000
<v Speaker 1>may turn out like sometimes science comes up with things

0:41:51.160 --> 0:41:54.200
<v Speaker 1>where we don't fully understand the way it's working, but

0:41:54.360 --> 0:41:56.760
<v Speaker 1>we have a practical effect, so we go with it.

0:41:56.880 --> 0:42:00.040
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes that turns out. That'd be great. I feel I

0:42:00.200 --> 0:42:03.640
<v Speaker 1>should just have like a song version of twenty to

0:42:03.719 --> 0:42:07.480
<v Speaker 1>forty years that I just like to play a little,

0:42:07.520 --> 0:42:32.560
<v Speaker 1>a little jingle, yeah and now forty years by Noel Brown.

0:42:33.920 --> 0:42:36.160
<v Speaker 1>This is the point in our notes where we had

0:42:36.200 --> 0:42:38.920
<v Speaker 1>decided that we were going to split the episode and

0:42:39.120 --> 0:42:43.040
<v Speaker 1>pick up again in another episode, because we just got

0:42:43.160 --> 0:42:46.239
<v Speaker 1>so much to talk about with sound, and obviously, you know,

0:42:46.280 --> 0:42:49.160
<v Speaker 1>we had to lay the groundwork and ultrasonic frequencies was

0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:51.439
<v Speaker 1>that was a great way to get started. And in fact,

0:42:51.480 --> 0:42:54.600
<v Speaker 1>we'll pick up with a different application of ultrasonic frequencies

0:42:54.600 --> 0:42:57.879
<v Speaker 1>that has nothing to do with the field of medicine. Ah. Yeah,

0:42:57.880 --> 0:43:00.680
<v Speaker 1>we're over talking about the gross spot stuff that we

0:43:00.719 --> 0:43:03.399
<v Speaker 1>have been talking about all episod. Yeah, so we're gonna

0:43:03.480 --> 0:43:07.279
<v Speaker 1>have some non gross, non body stuff and maybe some

0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:09.120
<v Speaker 1>gross stuff that has nothing to do with bodies in

0:43:09.120 --> 0:43:11.640
<v Speaker 1>our next episode. You'll have to tune in and find out. Meanwhile,

0:43:11.680 --> 0:43:14.680
<v Speaker 1>if you have any suggestions for future episodes, uh, you

0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:16.560
<v Speaker 1>should definitely get in touch with us. Let's know what

0:43:16.640 --> 0:43:19.040
<v Speaker 1>you think. The email address you can send that to

0:43:19.280 --> 0:43:22.600
<v Speaker 1>is f W Thinking at health stuff Works dot com.

0:43:22.719 --> 0:43:24.719
<v Speaker 1>Or you can drop us a line on Twitter or

0:43:24.800 --> 0:43:27.480
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0:43:27.520 --> 0:43:31.080
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0:43:31.120 --> 0:43:33.120
<v Speaker 1>pop right up. You can leave us a message. We've

0:43:33.120 --> 0:43:35.960
<v Speaker 1>been getting some great requests and some notes from you

0:43:36.000 --> 0:43:38.680
<v Speaker 1>guys that we really do love. We read all of them,

0:43:38.719 --> 0:43:40.680
<v Speaker 1>So keep an ear out because we're going to have

0:43:40.719 --> 0:43:43.960
<v Speaker 1>some listener request episodes coming up very soon, and yours

0:43:43.960 --> 0:43:46.160
<v Speaker 1>could be the next one. Just send us that message

0:43:46.320 --> 0:43:50.520
<v Speaker 1>and we will talk to you again about sound really soon.

0:43:55.040 --> 0:43:57.520
<v Speaker 1>For more on this stuffic in the future of technology,

0:43:57.800 --> 0:44:11.680
<v Speaker 1>visit forward Thinking dot Com, brought to you by Toyota.

0:44:12.160 --> 0:44:13.120
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