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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Two little girls dead. Two

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Speaker 1: little girls found in their Maybank, Texas home, fifty five

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Speaker 1: miles southeast of Dallas. What happened? How did two little

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Speaker 1: girls end up dead by gunshot wound? I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Listen to this nine one one call Tria. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: want to hug you get somebody come in here and

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Speaker 1: check my lap out? Okay, what's the address the demog? Hey?

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Speaker 1: What's Setty may Bank picker? Okay? Please Papa for arfication?

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Speaker 1: Repeated poards, plane drive, banker mom thing man. He sounds

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Speaker 1: pretty calm to have two dead children. Did he know

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Speaker 1: the girls were dead? What he called? Because I don't

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Speaker 1: believe that would be my reaction. Um. I can remember,

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Speaker 1: and you were with me at this time, Jason Oceans. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember when I went out to Dancing with

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Speaker 1: the Stars and I got a phone call and I

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Speaker 1: was told my mom had cancer. And I remember getting

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Speaker 1: on the phone. I mean I started calling people trying

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Speaker 1: to get get us all back to where she was

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Speaker 1: out of l A. And when I was on the phone,

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Speaker 1: I could hear my voice and it was really loud

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Speaker 1: and really high pitched. I could hear it, and I

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Speaker 1: knew it didn't sound like me, but it was me.

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Speaker 1: So Jason, after all the cases you've handled, you don't

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Speaker 1: think this guy sounds unusually calm and see and I

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Speaker 1: remember that incident with your mom, and it's almost as

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Speaker 1: if you could hear a heart eating through that phone

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Speaker 1: so loud, because it's literally pumping out of your chest.

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Speaker 1: Your adrenaline is just and he's notwithstanding that he who

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Speaker 1: were just murdered and someone tried to murder him, attempted

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Speaker 1: murder My god, your your your emotions. I could not

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Speaker 1: possibly imagine that that voice was so another thing. Jason

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Speaker 1: oceans Uh, veteran trial lawyer joining me out of New York.

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Speaker 1: Also with me, guys. Dr Brian Russell, psychologist and lawyer. Okay, Jason,

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Speaker 1: he's got a leg up on us. He's going to

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Speaker 1: rub it in our nose. Is he's not just a lawyer,

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Speaker 1: he's also a psychologist and he's the host of investigation

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Speaker 1: discoveries hit series Fatal Vows. Okay, so you know, just

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Speaker 1: to you on those sour grapes, Jason motions. Dr Brian

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Speaker 1: Russell with us also Francie Higgs, former federal prosecutor and

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Speaker 1: John Limley Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. Before I

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Speaker 1: raced to a conclusion here, I need to hear a

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Speaker 1: little bit more. I don't know the circumstances around this

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Speaker 1: nine one one call. All I know right now at

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Speaker 1: this juncture, two little girls are dead by gunshot wound,

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Speaker 1: and I've got this seemingly normal nine one one call.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, let's listen to more. Hello, that's from a MS.

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Speaker 1: We got this connecta. Okay, tell me exactly what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Um my wife, she's buck something going on with her. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they need to tribe what's going on the symptom. I

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Speaker 1: like she's forging out, like somebody got to get hurt. Okay,

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Speaker 1: dam a strip my mom wanten to me, You want

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Speaker 1: to talk to me. I'm good, She'll wake Okay? Is

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Speaker 1: she burthing if she's saying she's okay. Now I'm starting

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Speaker 1: to understand what's happening. Why he's so calm to John Limley,

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Speaker 1: crime online dot Com investigative reporter and ps. If you

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Speaker 1: want the breaking crime and justice needs, go to crime

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Speaker 1: online dot com. It's always right there. John Limley, the

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Speaker 1: first call. When I was commenting, while why is he

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Speaker 1: so calm? The girls were not dead yet? That's why,

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Speaker 1: that's why that's absolutely correct. Uh, it was still a

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Speaker 1: few hours away. In fact, if I could go back

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Speaker 1: and sort of set the scene as far as I

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Speaker 1: knew that, you would you love quote setting the scene. Okay,

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Speaker 1: go ahead, but f F fast forward. I want to

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Speaker 1: find out why are there two little dead girls in

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Speaker 1: the home? But go ahead, set the scene for Pete's sake,

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Speaker 1: said the scene gladly. Jacob and Sarah Henderson. That's the

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Speaker 1: wife he's talking about. They lived in a witted life.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, John Limley. The man and the woman

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Speaker 1: are married and they live in the home together with

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Speaker 1: the two little girls. Let me understand the husband. That's

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Speaker 1: the husband's voice, I hear being so calm. They somehow

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Speaker 1: get disconnected. I can only imagine how, and they the

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Speaker 1: operator calls the number back. Is that the mom that

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Speaker 1: also sounded extremely calm? Is that the mother we're talking about? Correct?

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Speaker 1: In the background here, Sarah Henderson. They lived with their

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Speaker 1: two little girls, seven year old Kayley and five year

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Speaker 1: old Kinley. Jacob incidentally not the children's biological father. In

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Speaker 1: photos you can find on Facebook and elsewhere. You can

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Speaker 1: see the couple smiling, having a good time at various gatherings.

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Speaker 1: In one photo, the girls are dressed in identical white

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Speaker 1: tutoos and cowboy boots at some community event. There obviously

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Speaker 1: the hit of that evening. Just as cute as they

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Speaker 1: can be, they made quite the impression of a close, happy,

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Speaker 1: carefree family. Things were different though behind closed doors, especially

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Speaker 1: before Jake even entered the scene. When the girls were younger,

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Speaker 1: just little babies really, Sarah had been no strange to

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Speaker 1: child protective services. She had spent time with social workers

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Speaker 1: who had been checking all the girls welfare. In a

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Speaker 1: case from when the girls were just an infant and

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Speaker 1: a toddler, social workers found quote considerable or extreme child vulnerability.

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Speaker 1: And you'll see what I mean by that. Reports found

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Speaker 1: Henderson and her boyfriend at the time, we're not providing

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Speaker 1: appropriate supervision, resulting in the child and this is another

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Speaker 1: quote from the report, eating feces, falling off a truck

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Speaker 1: and being hospitalized for possible Okay, stop right there, stop

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Speaker 1: right there, stop right there. I was just waiting for

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Speaker 1: you to to tell me what the charge was exactly.

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Speaker 1: Francy hikes with me, former federal prosecutor and also named

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Speaker 1: by the federal government as really the czar or. I

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Speaker 1: guess in your case this is Zarina of abducted and

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Speaker 1: exploited children. That's a huge, huge task, Francy Higgs joining me.

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Speaker 1: You know when I right now I'm getting chills on

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Speaker 1: my arms, Francie, because these children were in danger and

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Speaker 1: Child Protective Services knew about it. The baby is eating

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Speaker 1: human feces falling off the truck. I mean, did you

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Speaker 1: see the other day, Francie where a woman got CPS

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Speaker 1: called on her when she let her child, her eight

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Speaker 1: or eleven year old daughter walk around the block with

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Speaker 1: the dog, take the dog on walk alone. She gets

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Speaker 1: CPS call and they leave. Yet they leave these children

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Speaker 1: in the home. Now the children are dead. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how do CPS live with themselves, Francie. But again, it's

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Speaker 1: not them, it's the parents that are letting this happen.

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Speaker 1: Here's the mom with some boyfriends lung up in the

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Speaker 1: house and not judging. Don't care. Don't judge me, Marley.

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Speaker 1: I will not judge you. So she's got that situation

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Speaker 1: going on with the boyfriend, but I will judge her

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Speaker 1: as it relates to the way the children are treated

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Speaker 1: and now common denominator mommy, mommy. Now she has a

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Speaker 1: husband and the children are still being mistreated. They're dead, Francie, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: it is a this is just an appalling case. But

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Speaker 1: I have really one key question and I don't think

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Speaker 1: I can answer yours. Ultimately, the criminal is the one

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Speaker 1: responsible for the crime. We can all agree on that.

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Speaker 1: But Nancy, how many cases have we seen where child

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Speaker 1: Protective Services knows about neglect and even abusive bevior? Their

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Speaker 1: goal is to reunite these families to the extent they're

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Speaker 1: ever not united, and it is almost always at the

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Speaker 1: expense of the child. When will we actually protect children?

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Speaker 1: Because I don't see it happening yet. Wanna hear what

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Speaker 1: still don't with all of your scene setting, John Lenly,

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Speaker 1: I still don't know exactly what happens with the children.

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Speaker 1: Let's go a little further than nine on one m Good.

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Speaker 1: Is she awake? Okay? Violent? No, she seems she's hard

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Speaker 1: now okay, we can still have them come out and

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Speaker 1: check her out, okay, okay. Then does she have a weapon? No?

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Speaker 1: Where is she right now? Is this a suicide account? No? No,

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Speaker 1: is she thinking about committing food side? No? Is she

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Speaker 1: completely alert? Yeah, just do a different state of mine.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back on Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to crime stories. We're bringing you the story,

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Speaker 1: the real story, the real case of two little Texas

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Speaker 1: girls found dead in their own home. And we've been

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Speaker 1: playing in nine one one call a series of them

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Speaker 1: where the husband is calling in that something's wrong with

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Speaker 1: his wife. But as we just end and we hear

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Speaker 1: him say, okay, she's fine. You hear her in the background,

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Speaker 1: extremely calm. But just seven minutes later, listen to this

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Speaker 1: Henderson County, m my wild Okay is this taka? Okay?

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Speaker 1: What is your wife? She's trying to CON's what do

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Speaker 1: you keep? What's her name? Sir? A hand this time? Okay, yeah, okay?

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Speaker 1: What alright? And how old are the children? That just

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Speaker 1: seven minutes later and the children are ed and he's

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Speaker 1: saying she was trying to kill herself, but Whoopsie, she

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Speaker 1: killed the two children. And Jackie Howard here in the

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Speaker 1: studio is going did you hear him say she's grabbing

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Speaker 1: her own neck trying to strangle herself. Really, Jackie, why

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Speaker 1: didn't she use the gun on herself. What about that?

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Speaker 1: I am not buying any of it. Claiming she was

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Speaker 1: trying to commit suicide? Why is that? Dr Brian Russell,

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Speaker 1: you're the psychologist and the law, you're a host of

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Speaker 1: investigation discoveries fatal vows. Why is it they always say

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Speaker 1: I was trying to commit suicide, but instead I slaughtered

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Speaker 1: all my children and I lived. Yeah. Actually, we've seen

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Speaker 1: this time and time again in case after case on

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Speaker 1: fatal vows where someone has said, oh, I came in

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Speaker 1: and I caught the person right in the throes of

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Speaker 1: a suicidal attempt, and I tried to stop it, and

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Speaker 1: we struggled for the gun and lo and behold, I

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Speaker 1: shot them. So it's it's actually more common than you

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Speaker 1: might think for people to try to use it. To me,

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Speaker 1: that means, okay, I see where you're where your head.

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Speaker 1: They're trying to use the suicide claim joining me Jason

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Speaker 1: Ocean's trial lawyer in multiple jurisdictions. Dr Brian Russell, Discovery

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Speaker 1: I D Fatal Vows. Francy Higgs, former federal prosecutor, and

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Speaker 1: John Limley, investigative reporter with Crime online dot Com. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let me understand John Limley. So seven minutes before this,

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Speaker 1: he's on the phone with nine one one. He said,

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Speaker 1: my wife is acting erratic. She thinks somebody's after her.

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Speaker 1: Everything's fine, and you can hear the woman on the phone,

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Speaker 1: she sounds perfectly normal. In the seven minutes later, the

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Speaker 1: children are did what happened? In the background, you can

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Speaker 1: hear Sarah asking why did I do that? Jake? Now,

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Speaker 1: according to Jake, he had just fallen back asleep and

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Speaker 1: was awakened by his wife right by his side. In

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Speaker 1: his ears say Jake, I shot the kids. And in

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Speaker 1: the nine one one call, you can hear Jacob blurting

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Speaker 1: police to what they would find. The girls reported to

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Speaker 1: be Kaylee and Kinley. They were asleep in the living

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Speaker 1: room and that is where Sarah shot them. This is

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Speaker 1: also what I know then that that second call comes

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Speaker 1: in at two a m. And Jason Oceans, you've tried,

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Speaker 1: I guess as many or more cases than I have.

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Speaker 1: I've always told your's nothing good happens after midnight. Nothing

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Speaker 1: good is to two a m. And she shoots her children.

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Speaker 1: Now what about this, Jason Oceans. We now know there's

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Speaker 1: a mental defect defense going on, But She immediately comes

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Speaker 1: in and tells her husband, Hey, honey, I just shot

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Speaker 1: the kids. She knows exactly what she did. Jason, how

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Speaker 1: are you going to handle that at trial? I mean,

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Speaker 1: her insanity was so temporary, it only lasted a few minutes.

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Speaker 1: Competency versus sanity will be will be the you know,

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Speaker 1: the aspect of the defenses as you go through that.

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Speaker 1: I think from me though, I'm more interested in the

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Speaker 1: fact that he went back to sleep seven minutes from

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Speaker 1: when he was calling the police relentlessly and kind his

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Speaker 1: wife was out of her mind. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: where was the gun? I think, you know, if the

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Speaker 1: child projective suns was bringing the family back together, the

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Speaker 1: shorter would like to know if there was a legal

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Speaker 1: gun in possession, and where's the gun? That's your concern.

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Speaker 1: I'm concerned about seven year old Kiley and five year

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Speaker 1: old kid shot execution style. Both shot execution style in

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Speaker 1: the head. So, Francie Haiggs, former federal prosecutor, how crazy

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Speaker 1: is that? Do you think that she can go in?

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Speaker 1: She waits till her husband is asleep, much like Andrew

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Speaker 1: Yates waited for her husband Rusty to leave to go

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Speaker 1: to work. That she locks all the doors and systematically

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Speaker 1: kills one child after the next, and then lays them

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Speaker 1: on the bed. Here we've got her waiting till the

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Speaker 1: husband is back asleep, retrieving the weapon, shooting east child

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Speaker 1: execution style in the head as they lay defenseless and sleeping.

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Speaker 1: M What doesn't sound much like insanity to me. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like a very much of a plan. I'm also curious,

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Speaker 1: Nancy about the husband's claim that he was awakened by

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Speaker 1: her telling him she shot the children. You know what,

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Speaker 1: I know. We're from the South. We know what a

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Speaker 1: gun shot sounds like. There were at least two of them.

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Speaker 1: How did that not awaken the hust Well, hold on,

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Speaker 1: let let let me correct everybody. I never knew anything

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Speaker 1: about a gun period until my fiance was murdered. I

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Speaker 1: don't know about everybody else in the quote South. I

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Speaker 1: do find unusual he didn't hear anything but Francy for

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Speaker 1: all I know. That adds to her planning, that she

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Speaker 1: somehow muffled the sound of the gun. That's a great point, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: She very well could have. And I think it's also

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Speaker 1: interesting that as a as a society, we think if

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Speaker 1: a mother kills her children there must be something wrong

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Speaker 1: with her. It's easy to buy the insanity claim. But

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Speaker 1: we have the other example recently of the father in

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Speaker 1: Colorado who murdered his wife and two daughters. No one's

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Speaker 1: really saying he was insane, It's just evil. Why is

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Speaker 1: there a difference in treatment. Well, hold on to your hat, everybody,

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Speaker 1: because listen to this. In the last hours, a stunning

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Speaker 1: new and bizarre twist in the story where you're learning

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Speaker 1: now that this horrific case has taken another turn. Investigators

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Speaker 1: just announcing that mommy Sarah Henderson had planned for at

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Speaker 1: least two weeks to kill her children two weeks and

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Speaker 1: not only that, she also planned to kill the husband too.

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Speaker 1: But the entire crime did not go as planned because

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Speaker 1: the gun seemingly malfunction when she tried to kill Jacob two.

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Speaker 1: I guess didn't try to make it look like a

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Speaker 1: home invasion. Yes, she planned it for two weeks, John Limley,

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Speaker 1: give me the latest. Well that maybe mother accused of

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Speaker 1: shooting her two children. She will undergo further testing, but

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Speaker 1: has so far by two doctors, been found competent to

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Speaker 1: stand trial. The defense has requested that she be tested

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Speaker 1: by three doctors for incentive. Let's take a listen and

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Speaker 1: figure out what we can learn from the rest of

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Speaker 1: the nine one one call. Was the husband in on it?

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Speaker 1: Is he the innocent victim? What we know right now

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Speaker 1: is this case has taken a stunning, bizarre and dark twist.

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Speaker 1: Did mommy plan the murder offer two little girls ages

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Speaker 1: five and seven for two weeks? Are they in the bedroom?

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Speaker 1: There in the living room and they're not breathing? No?

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Speaker 1: For you home? When she did the third? Did you

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Speaker 1: just get home? Oh? You were a fleet? Is the

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Speaker 1: end of the influence of any drugs or alcohol? They

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Speaker 1: were in fleet in the living room and then she

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Speaker 1: when in there? And were you as sleep in the bedroom? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Was Sarah sleep in the bedroom with you? And she

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Speaker 1: got up? I guess I want to sleep at night,

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Speaker 1: and I woke up and I didn't want to believe it.

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Speaker 1: I went in there. You are hearing the husband of

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Speaker 1: Sarah Henderson. He sounded genuine to me. You know, at

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Speaker 1: first you've got to look at him as a possible

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Speaker 1: accomplice because they're both the adults in the home. The

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Speaker 1: children are dead. Was he part of it? But I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you to me, and this is just I'm just

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Speaker 1: a trial lawyer. You're the shrink. Dr Brian Russell, host

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Speaker 1: of I D S Fatal, vows he sounds genuine I

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Speaker 1: believe agree. I agree, he sounds genuinely distraught, and at

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Speaker 1: this point it doesn't sound like there's any reason to

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Speaker 1: believe that he had anything to do with the planet.

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Speaker 1: To John Limley, investigative reporter of Crime online dot Com,

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Speaker 1: so the dad is saying he's sleep, the husband, the

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Speaker 1: two little girls, dad, Keiley and Kenley, are dead, and

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Speaker 1: we're hearing the nine one one call. He sounds genuine

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Speaker 1: to me. I don't think he was part of this,

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Speaker 1: John Limley, We have no reason to believe that that

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Speaker 1: he was involved whatsoever. This seems to have come out

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Speaker 1: of absolute thin air as far as he was concerned. Well,

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Speaker 1: I want to tell you another fact that we've learned,

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Speaker 1: Jason Oceans. We now are here that the neighbors say

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Speaker 1: that she, Sarah Henderson, acted strangely. Now, I thought at first,

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Speaker 1: when I learned that new piece of evidence that was

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Speaker 1: going to go to an insanity defense. I mean, was

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Speaker 1: she walking around the neighborhood naked? Was she, you know,

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Speaker 1: talking to the dog in the front yard or the trees,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, exhibiting unusual behavior. What they mean by

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Speaker 1: that is that she was constantly screaming at her children.

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Speaker 1: Quote neighbor says Jalen Palmer. You just heard her yelling

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Speaker 1: at the kids all the time. You know what last night, Jason,

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Speaker 1: the twins they have selected instruments. Today is the first

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Speaker 1: day they got to take their instruments to school. Lucy,

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Speaker 1: as I say, has the bassinet, which drives her crazy.

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Speaker 1: It's the clarinet, but I keep saying bassanet every time,

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Speaker 1: and every time she never catches on. I'm doing it

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Speaker 1: on purpose. It was the clariet. Uh. And John David

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Speaker 1: has the sacks, okay, thank you lord. He did not

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Speaker 1: pick the tuba okay, which he was considering, thanks to

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Speaker 1: my husband. Anyway, he did pick the sacks. So last

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Speaker 1: night he comes up behind me as I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: get supper ready, goes really loud, but blast I jumped

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Speaker 1: and I turned around to him and I had a

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Speaker 1: like a main look, and he looked so upset on

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Speaker 1: his little face, and I immediately smiled with it's okay.

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Speaker 1: I was just scared, and I have thought about it.

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Speaker 1: I woke up in the night, thank you. Why did

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Speaker 1: I turn around with an irritated look on my face?

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Speaker 1: And I didn't even say anything, but just look, I

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Speaker 1: feel so bad about it because he's such a jolly,

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Speaker 1: happy boy, and Lucy's all like introspective and thinking all

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Speaker 1: the time and write scribbling notes to herself, and so

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Speaker 1: I immediately hugged him and told him he was awesome.

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Speaker 1: But I still think about it. You know, people notice

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Speaker 1: when you yell and scream at your children all the

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Speaker 1: time at the grocery store anywhere else when them Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I'm beating myself up over the trumpet blast in

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Speaker 1: the ear, and the neighbors had heard the mom just

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Speaker 1: screaming at the children. In the last days, new charges

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Speaker 1: have been added in a formal indictment. New charges for

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Speaker 1: this may Bank woman we know for a fact guns

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Speaker 1: down her children. But in the last day her bill

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Speaker 1: amount has been raised to two point one million dollars in.

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Speaker 1: Thirty year old Sarah Nicole Henderson now charged with two

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Speaker 1: counts of capital murder, one count of attempted murder, and

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Speaker 1: one count of assault on a public servant. Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out what all the charges actually are

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Speaker 1: listen to this. We're getting out there that bigan. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you hear that, Jason Oceans, Your client

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Speaker 1: is claiming I'm not insane. I'm not insane. That's not

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Speaker 1: gonna help a trial that doesn't go towards towards anything

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Speaker 1: incompetens insanity. As I said before, it's fairly routine to

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Speaker 1: have another you know, the defense to have another examination

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Speaker 1: based on that. But clearly it was Yeah, she's telling us, Jason,

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Speaker 1: depositive ant. She actually that would just go fund of

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Speaker 1: them prove that she actually was cons that's not going

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Speaker 1: to be the determined fact. Jason, don't throw your big

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Speaker 1: law your words at me. That's not a positive. What

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Speaker 1: he's trying to say is that doesn't prove anything, and

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Speaker 1: I will I will give you this, Jason. Otions crazy

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Speaker 1: people never think they're crazy. They think they're perfectly saying.

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Speaker 1: It's the same ones that go, am I crazy when

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Speaker 1: something doesn't make sense? I mean, Dr Brian Russell, that's

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Speaker 1: an anecdote. But are we right about that? Yeah? I

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Speaker 1: think you're making it an important point, which is that

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Speaker 1: anytime somebody has massive motivation to make themselves out to

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Speaker 1: be crazy, you've got to take that with a grain

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Speaker 1: of salt. The vast majority of us do not want

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Speaker 1: to be seen as crazy, and we would be horrified

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Speaker 1: if we thought that we picked up on some signs

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Speaker 1: that made something was off with us. Mentioned guys, I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at the brand new charges in the indictment. John

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Speaker 1: Linley explained what they are. We've got two counts of

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Speaker 1: capital murder. And when they say capital, this is Texas.

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Speaker 1: You get more than one body under the law. That's

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Speaker 1: mass murder. She could be looking at the death penalty,

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Speaker 1: but let's not put the car before the horse. We've

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Speaker 1: got two counts of capital murder, one count of attempted

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Speaker 1: murder I'm assuming that's on the husband who's lying there asleep,

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Speaker 1: and then one count of assault on a public servant.

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Speaker 1: Explained to me what the counts are, John, Well, the

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Speaker 1: two capital offenses. Those that is, the murder of the

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Speaker 1: two little girls and the assault on the public servant.

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Speaker 1: Arose two days later, while Sarah Henderson was being held

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Speaker 1: in the Henderson County Jail, where she is accused of

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Speaker 1: striking a detention officer while he was attempting to release

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Speaker 1: her from her restraints. Well, I guess she didn't get

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Speaker 1: those restraints off anytime soon. I'm wondering if this is

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Speaker 1: going to culminate in a death penalty case. But what

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about right now, she's got to claim insanity

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Speaker 1: at the time of the incident, but she's also claiming

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Speaker 1: incompetency to stand trial. Francy Haggs. Explain the difference and

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Speaker 1: somebody claiming I was insane at the time and or

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Speaker 1: versus I'm incompetent to stand trial. Well, Nancy, competency to

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Speaker 1: stand trial is just merely do you understand the charges

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Speaker 1: against you and can you aid your lawyers in your

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Speaker 1: own defense. That means, now, whether you're on medication or

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Speaker 1: whether your mental state is stabilized, can you help in

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Speaker 1: your own defense. Insanity just means at the time you've

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Speaker 1: committed the crime, you could not appreciate right from wrong

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Speaker 1: or could not control your impulses. I think the most

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Speaker 1: significant thing here, Nancy, in these new charges that you've

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Speaker 1: mentioned is the assault on the public official. Because you

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Speaker 1: and I both know that is kind of a penny

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Speaker 1: any charge, it may even be a misdemeanor. Why did

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Speaker 1: the prosecutors include it in an indictment for capital murder,

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Speaker 1: where the charges are obviously incredibly serious. I suggest to

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Speaker 1: you that it is in a tempt to refute the

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Speaker 1: insanity defense. She had not insane and wasn't at the

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Speaker 1: time of the crime, and look at what she did

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Speaker 1: on purpose just two days later in jail. Well, put again,

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Speaker 1: I'm coming through the nine one one call to see

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Speaker 1: if I can glean any other evidence. And you've you've

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Speaker 1: got to have your mind open. Are we going to

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Speaker 1: hear something that suggests she is insane that the defense

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Speaker 1: is going to use. Does she say anything incriminating? You've

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Speaker 1: got to listen where No, Jacob, can you hear me? Where?

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Speaker 1: Where did where did she shoot the kids? And you

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Speaker 1: have gone down there and kneeled against them and they're

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Speaker 1: not breathing. Okay, it's almost too upsetting for me to

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Speaker 1: even listen to. As you hear the husband crying into

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Speaker 1: the nine one call and you hear Sarah Henderson just

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Speaker 1: walking him. Little does he know at that juncture she

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Speaker 1: just tried to kill him. She tried to fire a

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Speaker 1: bullet into his head as he lay sleeping. After she

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Speaker 1: murders her two children. We were learning now that this

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Speaker 1: wasn't a spur of the moment act that she had

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Speaker 1: allegedly been planning to murder her children for two weeks

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Speaker 1: to Jason Notions, veteran trial lawyer joining me out of

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Speaker 1: New York along with Dr Brian Russell, host of investigation

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Speaker 1: discoveries hit series Fatal Vows, Francie Haig's former federal prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: and John Limley, investigative reporter Crime Online. Jason, that's why

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Speaker 1: I brought up earlier the fact that neighbors witnessed her

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Speaker 1: screaming at her little girls all the time. That was

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00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: the behavior there. That's m O. That's gonna come in

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Speaker 1: at trial. Jason. I know you don't like that, but

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Speaker 1: it is so I don't think it's put in a

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Speaker 1: particular way, and you know when that comes out in

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Speaker 1: that will see what I will point out that most

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Speaker 1: of the time when by their parents, it is as

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Speaker 1: it described as the crime of passion. Most of the

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Speaker 1: time when children are murdered by their parents, that's that's

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Speaker 1: sort of what's happened. It's not planned. The fact that

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Speaker 1: it that that you're alluding to the fact that it

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00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: was planned or it's been hard of that fact and

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Speaker 1: many times can go towards what I'm saying is our

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Speaker 1: actual what do you believe is the evidence, John Linley

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00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: that she planned this for two weeks. This is what

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Speaker 1: investigators announced after they had interrogated Sarah Henderson, that she

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Speaker 1: had planned for at least two weeks to kill her children.

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Speaker 1: The authorities have not provided further details to support this claim.

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Speaker 1: She also, as we have stated, intended to kill her

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Speaker 1: husband quote, but the entire crime did not go as planned.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious about what they're going to bring

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00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: forward Francy Haigs to show a that the gun malfunction

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Speaker 1: when she tried to shoot her husband dad and be

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00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: what was her planning process? How do we know she

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Speaker 1: planned this for two weeks because in the last hours

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00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: we learned she has been declared competent to stand trial.

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Speaker 1: She can assist her lawyer in her defense. That is

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Speaker 1: the definition of competency. Or you in a stupor. I mean,

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00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: are you barking like a dog in corn Are you

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Speaker 1: sitting there in a daze? That means you are incompetent.

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00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: You can't help your defense lawyer. You've got to be

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Speaker 1: competent to stand trial. Insanity at the time of the

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00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: incident is a whole another can of worms where you

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Speaker 1: claim you didn't know right from wrong at the time

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00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: of the incident. But she's just been declared Francy Haiggs competent.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean, Well, she's competent, Nancy. That means

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Speaker 1: she can stand trial. She can be held responsible for

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Speaker 1: the death of her children. And with respect to what

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00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: kind of evidence is out there, I suspect you're gonna

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00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: hear that there's a combination. First, the interview with her,

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00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: which we don't know what it said, or what Sarah

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00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: said during the interview with will be significant. But secondly,

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Speaker 1: I bet the police have seized her mobile phone, possibly

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Speaker 1: laptops or computers, and like we've seen in other cases

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00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: like Casey Anthony for example, she may very well have

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00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: done research on this topic and that may be why

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00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: they feel like it was a planned crime, because there's

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00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: some kind of research on how to get away with murder,

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00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: how to shoot your children, best way to kill your children.

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Speaker 1: Who knows what they will find, but I bet we'll

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Speaker 1: see some of that coming in into evidence. That is

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00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: a very good deduction, uh to Dr Brian Russell, I

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00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: d S fatal vows host a neighbor the same woman

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00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: that said she always saw Sarah Henderson heard her screaming

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00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: and her children. Jelene Palmer told NBC DFW that, uh,

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00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,959
Speaker 1: the little girls would ride their bikes through her driveway,

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00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: and the little girls are so sweet and loving that

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00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: they would draw pictures for Jaylene and put them in

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Speaker 1: the mailbox for jay Lene to find. You know what,

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00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: Dr Brian, You've seen me dragging around with that horrible

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00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: red backpack I've had for so long. It's stuffed with

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00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: notes and scribblings and pictures that the twins have drawn

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00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: over the years, and I can't I find them stuffed

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Speaker 1: in the kitchen drawer. I can't bear to throw them

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Speaker 1: away because they remind me of when the twins were little, beauty,

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00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: sweet babies and we're drawing scribblings, and I just think

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Speaker 1: about this neighbor or Jalen Palmer, talking about how the

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00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: two little girls would draw these pictures and leave them

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Speaker 1: for her to find in her mailbox, and this mom

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Speaker 1: shot them in the head. Well, you're making a very

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Speaker 1: important point because most of us identify with exactly what

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Speaker 1: you're saying about the parental and certainly the maternal instinct

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Speaker 1: and feelings that you have towards your children. I think

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00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: that's what most people expect of most mothers, and so

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Speaker 1: how that can be a detriment in a case like

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00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: this is that it does cause jurors sometimes to think, well,

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00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: no mother would ever do something like this unless she

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Speaker 1: was insane at the time. And I'm here to tell

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Speaker 1: you and everybody listening that that is not true. There

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00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: are people out there so cold, so callous, so depraved

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00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: and indifferent even towards their own children that uh, their frustration,

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00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: they're anger, they're inconvenience whatever of having those kids around

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00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: to them outweighs any kind of attachment that they don't form,

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00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: any kind of attachment like you have with your kids.

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Speaker 1: We are learning Keiley Danielle, seven years old, and Kenley five,

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00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: both shot in the middle of the night. I'm learning

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00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: where police are getting some of their allegations. Now you

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00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: heard the husband, Jacob Henderson, telling nine one one dispatch

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00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: she was asleep when I went to sleep last night.

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00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: She comes in and says, Babe, I just shot the kids.

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00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: The mother of Ki and Killing reportedly tells Texas police

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00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: she planned at least two weeks to kill her daughters

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00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: and her husband. She claims she was planning to shoot

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00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: herself that didn't happen. This is what we are learning

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00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: about Sarah Henderson. We have no indication she had ever

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00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: tried to commit suicide before you hear talking very plainly

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00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: on the phone. We also know that she had smoked

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00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: marijuana early in the evening according to her. That doesn't

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00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: change anything to Jason notion. Smoking a ton of pot,

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00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: even if it's synthetic pot laced with something else, that

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00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: doesn't negate that she planned this for two weeks. Also,

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Speaker 1: the voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is never a defense, Jason,

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00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: certainly no no defense. What's let Actually it goes through

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Speaker 1: our altered state and lack of parental responsibility and intent.

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00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: Could father again her ability not to be you know,

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00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: beyond the competence and just not to be sae Uh

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00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 1: send the back down and examination into how to gamble

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00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 1: the children beyond the screaming and yelling. Uh all could

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00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: total up that there's a package of just lack of

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00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 1: lack of salmon and beyond the competency. Take a listen

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00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: as friends of the family react. We thought we would

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00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: come out and bring a stuffed animal and just show

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00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: our support there are angels. Nobody deserves that. How how

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Speaker 1: could you even do something like that? Here was my friend.

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00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: I didn't see indications that she was you know, crazy

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00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: or suicidal or a killer or you know, I didn't

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00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: see those she left her kids, you know, I mean

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00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: they were tattooed on both legs and you know, I mean, um,

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00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: she she was a good mom. I mean, your kids

547
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: were always fair, clean, they were always like, respectful to everybody.

548
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: That's bridget goals. Jackie Nilms and Tina share me as

549
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: they look back, trying to make sense of the deaths

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00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: of two little girls. Else it will all unfold in

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00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 1: a Texas courtroom. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,