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Speaker 1: This episode of the Racket Magazine podcast is brought to

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Speaker 1: thirty percent off your order. Well, Rene, we took some

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Speaker 1: time off and we're back this week. It's nice to

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Speaker 1: hear your voice. And who are we talking to.

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Speaker 2: We are talking to former WTA player, former USTA president

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Speaker 2: Katrina Adams.

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Speaker 3: Not a former friend, still a friend. I've known Katrina

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Speaker 3: for a wow.

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Speaker 2: I don't to say how long because that would age

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Speaker 2: us both, but it's been a really long time, like decades.

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Speaker 3: It was great to have her on the pod this week.

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Speaker 2: We thought it was incredibly appropriate to have someone like her,

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Speaker 2: obviously a former player, someone who's had such a great

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Speaker 2: leadership role in tennis over the past fifteen years since retiring,

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Speaker 2: so it was great to have her on board. I

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Speaker 2: think it was really important for us to take that

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Speaker 2: time away from releasing the pod for the last couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks. As you brought up when we decided to

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Speaker 2: do that, I think it's a really good time for

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Speaker 2: us to sit back and listen, and so we decided

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Speaker 2: to do that over the last couple weeks. But we're

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Speaker 2: really proud that this week we're coming out with something

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Speaker 2: that's very important for all of us to listen to.

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Speaker 1: It speaks to the moment, obviously, the moment being all

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Speaker 1: of us trapped in a pandemic, seeing tennis sort of

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Speaker 1: in shit its way back in certain parts of the world,

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Speaker 1: but more importantly, here in the Stays and here in

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Speaker 1: New York, we're in the middle of a long, overdue

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Speaker 1: and righteous uprising against police brutality and against racism and

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Speaker 1: white supremacy. And I think, you know, just to acknowledge,

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Speaker 1: we're two privileged white ladies trying to have a conversation

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Speaker 1: about this, and you know, there are fantastic places to

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Speaker 1: listen to read. I would really recommend anybody who wants

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Speaker 1: to go deeper into this and just listen to this

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Speaker 1: podcast anyway. The Body Serve had a fantastic episode out

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Speaker 1: in the past ten days called I Hope that fish

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Speaker 1: eats you, which was nami Osaka's response to someone on

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Speaker 1: social media who questioned her race and nationality. But that

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Speaker 1: brings up an interesting point of conversation, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: we've tried to have Katrina on the podcast for a

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Speaker 1: very long time, but what a great coincidence that we

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Speaker 1: were able to get her now. But on social media,

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Speaker 1: this conversation has extended into the tennis world. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've seen Nami Osaka, Slan Stevens, Francis Tiaco, and I'm

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Speaker 1: listening black names, not because they're black and they're talking

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Speaker 1: about it, but just those are the ones that are

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Speaker 1: seeming to do a lot of the heavy thing. What

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Speaker 1: are you seeing out there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, and let's not forget Coco Goff. I

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Speaker 3: mean great for.

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Speaker 2: Me is it were seeing not only black tennis players

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Speaker 2: doing this, and it's the young black tennis players that

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Speaker 2: are really showing up in this fight. And it just

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Speaker 2: reminded me of you know what Billy Jean King stood

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Speaker 2: up for so long ago with the fight for equality

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Speaker 2: for women. This is a moment that they've really grabbed

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Speaker 2: a hold off and said it is our time. We're

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Speaker 2: the ones that need to stand up and make a

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Speaker 2: difference because social media now is so important for the

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Speaker 2: next generation, and they have put it out there on

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Speaker 2: social media. Obviously, we've seen some other examples. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to forget also Chander Ruben. There's so many players.

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Speaker 1: That we some some white players, Amanda and a Samova

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Speaker 1: tweeting about equality, Riley Opelka going to protests in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think it's a moment for white people

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Speaker 1: to you know, shut up and listen and try to

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Speaker 1: deal with our white fragility, but also try to do

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Speaker 1: some of the work right and that's not happening across

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Speaker 1: the board in the tennis world.

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Speaker 3: Among white people. No.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, look, I've had some really tough conversations

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Speaker 2: over the last three weeks about this with some very

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Speaker 2: very very very close friends of mine, and it has

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Speaker 2: not been an easy conversation. And you know, some let's

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Speaker 2: say fishes in relationships are happening because based on some

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Speaker 2: of this.

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Speaker 3: But again, the most.

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Speaker 2: Important thing is for us is to be allies for

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Speaker 2: our brothers and sisters, and so I think this is

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Speaker 2: an opportunity for us as you said to sit back. I,

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Speaker 2: you know, just finished reading White Fragility myself, and I

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Speaker 2: think it's important for us to educate ourselves in what

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Speaker 2: we can do as allies to help this cause. And

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Speaker 2: it's been an enlightening, very important couple of weeks in

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Speaker 2: this world. And you know, our little podcast I hope

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Speaker 2: sheds a little light on that somewhat today with the

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Speaker 2: very very very brilliant Katrina Adams. And you know, I

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Speaker 2: hope everyone just sits back and listens and has an

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Speaker 2: open mind to these things. But yes, I am super

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Speaker 2: proud of the majority of our Tennis community and what

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Speaker 2: they've stood for over the last few weeks. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean names like Kim Cleisters for example. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's just so many great allies out there that really

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Speaker 2: want the right thing for equality in this world.

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Speaker 3: All right, Well, with's no further ado. Here is Katrina

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Speaker 3: Adams on our podcast. We are both sitting in the

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Speaker 3: same apartment.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that's coronavirus appropriate, but we have

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Speaker 2: also been by ourselves for about it feels like half

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Speaker 2: a year, but Caitlin and I are actually in the

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Speaker 2: same mamma in my apartment in New York and we

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Speaker 2: have the great pleasure of having my very long time

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Speaker 2: I don't want to get into how long, because that

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Speaker 2: will aide us both amazing friend, Katrina Adams, former WTA player,

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Speaker 2: former great player, beat mine but a few times on

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Speaker 2: the court.

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Speaker 3: And also, god.

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Speaker 2: Your list is getting longer, my friend, former USTA president,

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Speaker 2: obviously former player.

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Speaker 3: What are you president of the njt L.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many things about you, Katrina that

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Speaker 2: you've like run the gamut, you're now on the i

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Speaker 2: TF board. There's so much so I welcome Katrina Adams

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Speaker 2: to the Recam magazine.

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Speaker 3: Podcast this week. What's up?

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Speaker 1: Go?

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Speaker 3: How's it going? So it's been an interesting couple of weeks,

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Speaker 3: my friend.

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Speaker 1: Before we get into the moment, can you tell us

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Speaker 1: for people who are used to seeing you running the

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Speaker 1: show at the US Open, being the president at the USCA,

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Speaker 1: what are you.

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Speaker 3: Doing right now?

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Speaker 1: What's on your plate? What's what's your connection to tennis

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Speaker 1: at the moment other than being a I'm sure a

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Speaker 1: watcher and a lover and a player.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on the show. It's always great

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Speaker 3: to catch up with friends and just candidly talk about issues.

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Speaker 3: Right now, I am the executive director of the Harlem

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Speaker 3: Seer in Tennis and Education Program, which is an n

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Speaker 3: JTL chapter here in New York based in Harlem, vice

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Speaker 3: President of the IF, chair of the GET Committee their

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Speaker 3: Equality in Tennis as well as the Fed Cup Committee

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Speaker 3: for the ITF, and I'm still on the board of

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Speaker 3: the USCA, So I'm very much involved in the sport

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Speaker 3: from a lot of different levels, and every now and

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Speaker 3: then I get to be a commentator. So you know,

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Speaker 3: these last couple of months three months now, I guess

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Speaker 3: with COVID being isolated and quarantined most of the time,

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Speaker 3: and I've been able to really catch up on things

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Speaker 3: and hold on, hold on, hold on, Well you weren't

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Speaker 3: even just quarantined.

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Speaker 2: Let's get into the like minutia of literally the last

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Speaker 2: couple of months of your life, because it's also been an.

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Speaker 3: Incredibly difficult, emotional.

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Speaker 2: A few months for you with you know, both your

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Speaker 2: parents passing in the last twelve months, also got COVID

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Speaker 2: nineteen as well, so you've just you know, let's not

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Speaker 2: try and be all like I'm tough Patrina Adams anymore.

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Speaker 3: Like there you didn't let me finish, so I go

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Speaker 3: there the last three months, but go ahead, since you

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Speaker 3: brought it up. Yeah, life has kind of sucked the

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Speaker 3: last three months, you know, with COVID being isolated, being quarantined.

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Speaker 3: I lost my dad three weeks ago, not to COVID

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Speaker 3: but to a broken heart, having lost my mom and

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Speaker 3: his love for sixty four years. She passed away in August,

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Speaker 3: and I was fortunate enough to be able to fly

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Speaker 3: out to Vegas where he was staying with my brother

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Speaker 3: to be with him, and uh, you know, and he

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Speaker 3: died in my arms. So it's been very difficult in

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Speaker 3: you know, these last few weeks. But you know, and

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Speaker 3: on top of that, we have the killing of George

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Speaker 3: Floyd in Minneapolis, of which the world has watched, the

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Speaker 3: world has grieved, the world has supported me in many ways,

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Speaker 3: and and the world has left me in many ways.

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Speaker 3: So it's it's been a tough, tough few weeks. But

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Speaker 3: you know, every day I've got to put one foot

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Speaker 3: in front of the other and to move forward and

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Speaker 3: try to make sense in light of everything and figure out,

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Speaker 3: you know, really, what what my what's the point of

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Speaker 3: my existence in this world in America? What? What have you?

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Speaker 1: What are you concluding about that? What are you processing

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Speaker 1: about that. That's what I was going to ask you about.

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Speaker 1: It's a transition moment. We're having a crisis in the streets.

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Speaker 1: We have dialogues going on that we should have been

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Speaker 1: having the whole time. We can get into every element

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Speaker 1: of that, but you as a person, how how are

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Speaker 1: you thinking about your existence right now?

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Speaker 3: Where's your head? Yeah? It's been difficult. I mean it's

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Speaker 3: you know, I think for me and Renee knows me

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Speaker 3: very well. Everything that I've done, it's been to My

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Speaker 3: goal has been to make a difference, to make a change,

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Speaker 3: to make things better, to be engaged, to be involved,

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Speaker 3: to have a voice, and to be inclusive. You know,

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Speaker 3: I was a president of the USA before years and

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Speaker 3: the biggest thing that I really talked about a lot

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Speaker 3: was obviously diversity and an inclusion because here we go, right,

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Speaker 3: it's not hard to see when I walk in the

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Speaker 3: room that I'm black and I'm diverse, and trying to

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Speaker 3: really grow our sport and get more kids of color

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Speaker 3: engaged in the sport and make sure that there's an

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Speaker 3: opportunity for them. I've preached, and I do say preached

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Speaker 3: at annual.

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Speaker 2: Meetings about the struggle that people of color have had

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Speaker 2: or diverse people in our sport.

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Speaker 3: But it's not about that. It's about a human it's

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Speaker 3: a it's a human issue, and how we've been overlooked

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Speaker 3: or not supported in different arenas, how we are often

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Speaker 3: ostracized if we are at a large event. This is

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Speaker 3: in general not USCA, but in general of going to

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Speaker 3: a meeting or conference and there's probably a dozen people

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Speaker 3: of color and somehow we find each other and gravitate

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Speaker 3: to be in conversation, and then we're talked about about

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Speaker 3: us separating ourselves, And it's not about separating ourselves. It's

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Speaker 3: about being inclusive of ourselves to find a comfort zone.

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Speaker 3: And I challenge people all the time, why don't you

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Speaker 3: go into a reverse situation as a white person, to

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Speaker 3: go into an all black arena or a Hispanic arena

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Speaker 3: or an Asian arena and you find a dozen other

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Speaker 3: people that look like you. Who are you going to

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Speaker 3: gravitate to and start to have a conversation. And it's

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Speaker 3: not to be a racist or to discriminate in any form.

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Speaker 3: It's to find people that you are most comfortable with

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Speaker 3: starting a conversation as strangers. And it's very difficult to

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Speaker 3: get people to understand that. And I think when you

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Speaker 3: look at the events that have happened in the last

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Speaker 3: nine ten days now, I think people are starting to

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Speaker 3: get it and starting to understand that there are so

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Speaker 3: many predisposed, unconscious biases out there that you automatically or

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Speaker 3: have a viewpoint of one thing or another without trying

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Speaker 3: to assess the situation or even ask questions before you

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Speaker 3: start to accuse. And those are the things that I've

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Speaker 3: been trying to process really in the last week and

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Speaker 3: really the last few days, as I've watched this movie,

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Speaker 3: this drama, this thriller, this tragedy unfold before our eyes.

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Speaker 3: And that's kind of where I am right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you and I spoke earlier today Kat

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Speaker 2: about it a little, and Caitlin and I were talking

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Speaker 2: Pride to our starting is called, And you know, I

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Speaker 2: think one of the things that's been really good about

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Speaker 2: this is that, you know, and I watched obviously the

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Speaker 2: funeral today of George Floyd, and it was a moving

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Speaker 2: moment when Reverend Shopton got up and spoke, and the

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Speaker 2: things that he said were about, you know, sort of

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Speaker 2: the kneeling on the neck of black Americans has been

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Speaker 2: around for four hundred years, And that was one of

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Speaker 2: the things in the book that I'm reading right now

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Speaker 2: about white fragility. It's sort of just you gravitate to

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Speaker 2: the people that you used to and sometimes it's so

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Speaker 2: unconscious because it's what you've grown up around. And a

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Speaker 2: lot of times it's not your fault. You know a

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Speaker 2: lot of people. That's why it's called white fragility. Everyone

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Speaker 2: takes offense to it. They get defensive rather than just

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Speaker 2: listening to where the problems the systemic racism goes. So,

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Speaker 2: I mean in tennis, it's a unique situation, right because

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Speaker 2: tennis is such a white sport quote unquote. But now

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Speaker 2: like in the US, for example, you have some incredible

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Speaker 2: black female particular athletes that have come through Venus and Serena,

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Speaker 2: you know Coke who's speaking out over the last week.

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Speaker 2: It's just unbelievable what this young lady is doing. And

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Speaker 2: that comes from great parenting and et cetera. And you've

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Speaker 2: got Swan, You've got Madison Keys, You've got all these

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Speaker 2: great young black American players and they're doing so many

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Speaker 2: great things. And your your group before that, Laurie McNeil,

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Speaker 2: Zena Garrison, Althia Gibson yourself. Do you feel that there's

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Speaker 2: the shift is there with the players, but it's still

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Speaker 2: not the undercurrent of people, you know that are making

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Speaker 2: the big decisions like in every corporation in the US.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's the players are there, and I mean,

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Speaker 3: you know, we're lacking obviously like them on the male side.

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Speaker 3: But we have Francis Siafo, who stepped up also in

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Speaker 3: the last week video together on social media, reached out

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Speaker 3: to me to ask me if I would be a

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Speaker 3: part of it, and he was very successful in getting

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Speaker 3: so many of the other top black players, not the

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Speaker 3: African Americans, but black players from around the world, from France,

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Speaker 3: England in the US, and you know, it just really

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Speaker 3: shows the camaraderie that is strong on the tennis tour

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Speaker 3: men and women, particularly with the players of color, because

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Speaker 3: we are in a predominantly white sport globally. Now, you know,

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Speaker 3: in the US we talk about racial racial biases all

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Speaker 3: the time. It's not so much talked about the rest

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Speaker 3: of the world because the rest of the world looks

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Speaker 3: like what they look like in their in their countries, right.

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Speaker 3: So I think when you when you talk about leadership,

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Speaker 3: Billy Jean says it all the time. You have to

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Speaker 3: see it to believe it. So unless you see yourself

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Speaker 3: in these higher positions, in these corporate positions and these

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Speaker 3: decision making decisions, you feel that you don't really have

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Speaker 3: a voice. You feel like you're talking, but no one's

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Speaker 3: ever listening. And that was my goal, you know, for

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Speaker 3: the four years that I fortunately had at the USCA,

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Speaker 3: that I always to listen and then relay the message

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Speaker 3: because I was the right messenger to tell the message.

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Speaker 3: Very difficult for either one of you to tell the

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Speaker 3: message of me, because you're not in my skin, you're

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Speaker 3: not in my shoes, You're not experiencing what I'm experiencing

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Speaker 3: on a daily basis. And I've always tried to be

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Speaker 3: politically correct and everything that I do, everything I say,

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Speaker 3: every place I go, and who I represent, and I

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Speaker 3: continue to do that. But I think the latest events

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Speaker 3: allow me to say, okay, Kat, you need to be

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Speaker 3: even more authentic than your presentation and to letting people

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Speaker 3: know that I too am hurting, I too am damaged

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Speaker 3: by this. I don't have a black husband or a

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Speaker 3: black song, but I have brothers, I have cousins, I

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Speaker 3: have nephews, I have uncles in this particular incident that,

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Speaker 3: by the way, happens all day every day. They're just

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Speaker 3: not always videoed exactly all the time. And for me

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Speaker 3: as a woman, even people see my color first before

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Speaker 3: they see me as a woman if they are looking

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Speaker 3: for something negative, and they're already sizing me up when

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Speaker 3: I walk into establishments, I walk into stores, I walk

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Speaker 3: into a meeting, and they're already deciding if I am,

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Speaker 3: if I'm worthy or have value of being in that space,

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Speaker 3: if I should be recognized or not, meaning approach to

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Speaker 3: say hello or greet it. When I say recognized, be greeted.

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Speaker 3: And that's what the platform of particularly the black athletes

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Speaker 3: in America, have been talking about for forever, but even

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Speaker 3: more so from Colin Kaeperdick taking a knee for the

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Speaker 3: very thing that this asshole's knee was on the neck

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Speaker 3: of this innocent guy that he killed. That's what he

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Speaker 3: was kneeling for, to fight against police brutality. And too

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Speaker 3: many people wanted to make it about so many other

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Speaker 3: things as opposed to listening and really trying to understand

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Speaker 3: it to see if they could do something about They

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Speaker 3: didn't want to do anything about it. And you better

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Speaker 3: believe if this wasn't on global television, on national television

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Speaker 3: every day, we wouldn't be having this conversation now because

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Speaker 3: it would be they would have found a reason for

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Speaker 3: his actions to have been right. So when you hear

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Speaker 3: the list of names that have been listed before George Floyd,

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Speaker 3: and unfortunately there are going to be other names after.

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Speaker 3: But unless we collectively come together as a human race,

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Speaker 3: in the human society to fight against this and fight

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Speaker 3: for systemic change against these unconscious and conscious biases, we

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Speaker 3: won't go anywhere. We can say in the next month, yeah,

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Speaker 3: things are going to get better, and we're probably going

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Speaker 3: to see some things here, some things, you know, so

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Speaker 3: that things can calm down and people get back into

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00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 3: you know, into their their rhythm of being at home

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Speaker 3: right now because of COVID and who knows how this

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Speaker 3: is going to grow back in New York. Hopefully it doesn't.

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Speaker 3: But we have to understand that people are different. But

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Speaker 3: diversity of thought, collective diversity of thought, is what makes

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Speaker 3: us stronger and makes us smarter and makes us more knowledgeable.

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Speaker 3: So when you talk about our sport of tennis on

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Speaker 3: the leadership, yeah, they listened to me for four years.

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Speaker 3: But where does it go from here? Who knows? Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: not in the immediate future that I was going to

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Speaker 3: be leading in the USCA. That that is diverse. When

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Speaker 3: we talk about our commentators in the sport of tennis,

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Speaker 3: you know, I went to Tennis Channel in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and two before they went on the air and told

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Speaker 3: them and I didn't have a lot of experience in

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Speaker 3: commentating at all, I knew the sport. Yeah, I talked

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Speaker 3: about tennis all the time. I said, you need me

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Speaker 3: more than I need you. You know why, because Venus

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Speaker 3: and Serena were number one and number two in the

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Speaker 3: world at that time, and they needed someone who could

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Speaker 3: really commentate and understand what their thought process was, not

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Speaker 3: just on the court, but off the court, to really

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Speaker 3: bring some authentic conversation to why they were so successful,

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Speaker 3: why they were so driven, why they didn't have the

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Speaker 3: opportunities that other players had in their upbringing, or maybe

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Speaker 3: they got more opportunities in other areas. And so that's

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Speaker 3: what I brought to the screen for about ten consecutive

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Speaker 3: years before I got more on the business side, and

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Speaker 3: I'm hoping to get back into it. But there's other

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Speaker 3: networks that say, you're not a Grand Slam champion, so

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Speaker 3: we can't use your not good enough for us and

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Speaker 3: in nut shot.

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Speaker 1: And yet the men commentating on the sport are not

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Speaker 1: even tennis players a lot of the times that I'm

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Speaker 1: listening to pretty much.

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Speaker 3: But but but that's that's the biases that are out there,

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Speaker 3: and they don't even and they don't think that I

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Speaker 3: understand what they're saying, so and it's a shame. But

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Speaker 3: I won't. I won't stop trying to get on other

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Speaker 3: networks to bring a knowledge that I have that's beyond

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Speaker 3: the years of some of our Grand Slam champions. We

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Speaker 3: all bring a diverse thought into the conversation and can

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Speaker 3: touch on different things differently. Doesn't matter what the color

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Speaker 3: of your skin is. It's about what's in here and

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Speaker 3: what we're bringing to the table.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think at that moment, and uh, when that

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Speaker 2: situation in Indian Wells with Venus and Serena, I mean

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Speaker 2: that would have been a perfect That's a perfect example

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Speaker 2: of needing to have a voice like yours or you know,

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Speaker 2: James blay Cool.

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Speaker 3: We're on tour then though, so we were, I wasn't

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Speaker 3: in the booth. That's my point, someone before us, you know,

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Speaker 3: a Zena or Lorie, I think they had retired by then,

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Speaker 3: or Leslie Allen who had been in these girls shoes,

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Speaker 3: who had felt an experienced racism in our sport growing up.

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Speaker 3: Those ladies can definitely give you some examples. I personally

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Speaker 3: don't have any of those. I grew up in Chicago.

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Speaker 3: I think I was protected from those incidents, if and

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Speaker 3: when they happened by my parents. So I can't sit

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Speaker 3: here and tell you a direct, a direct, an overt

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Speaker 3: racist act that was done towards me in my upbringing.

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Speaker 3: But those those ladies can't. They live in the South,

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Speaker 3: being a Xena and Laurie and and Chanda, she lives

400
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Speaker 3: in Louisiana. I'm sure she's got some stories, but it's

401
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 3: you know, you need to have these people on air

402
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 3: so when anything comes up they can talk about it.

403
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,400
Speaker 3: When James Blake was playing Layton Hewitt and Layton made

404
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Speaker 3: the comment to the umpire, he didn't know, he didn't

405
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 3: know what he knew what he was saying, but he

406
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 3: didn't really understand the impact of it because he doesn't

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Speaker 3: live in America. He didn't understand what that means and

408
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Speaker 3: what that implies and Donald Young experiencing that either what

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00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 3: two years ago or I don't remember, but it's the

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Speaker 3: underlying comments that the people that are saying do not

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Speaker 3: understand how hurtful they are. That you are a peer

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Speaker 3: of mine that I have respected. We eat in the

413
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 3: same restaurants, we're in the same locker rooms. We're sharing

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Speaker 3: all these things together, trying to be the best that

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Speaker 3: we can be. But you have just torn me down.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you didn't get that quick sense of oh wow,

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Speaker 2: you still knew me like that, you know, as opposed

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Speaker 2: to your opponent who's on the other side of the

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00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 2: tennis call to you and as a human being.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, part of it, Renee, you and I were talking

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Speaker 3: earlier too. I think part of it too is it's

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Speaker 3: your upbringing, you know, And I get it if I

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Speaker 3: I grow up in an all white community. All you know,

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Speaker 3: my schools, my teachers, my friends, and the only stories

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Speaker 3: that I know of black people are a depiction of

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Speaker 3: how they are in movies, in films, on television shows

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Speaker 3: and maybe in the news. All these negative things that

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Speaker 3: you hear, you are developing your understanding of all of

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Speaker 3: all black people exactly. And so when you start to

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Speaker 3: come into come of age, and you're getting outside of

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Speaker 3: your community and you're going to college, university and university

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Speaker 3: and getting the job for us, and now you have

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Speaker 3: to interact with people that don't look like you. You're

434
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 3: automatically sizing them up to be something negative even know them.

435
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 3: It's so true.

436
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, I've had the luxury of, like,

437
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: you know, I grew up in Australia, very white community,

438
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And then I was traveling

439
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 2: on tour for twenty something years and most of the

440
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 2: people that I met that were black were obviously involved

441
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 2: in tennis or were tennis parents or whomever yourself for example.

442
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 2: And the only ever people that I ever met that

443
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: were of African American backgrounds in this country were people

444
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 2: like you, And I saw how you were, your family various.

445
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: So I was lucky enough that that's the exposure that

446
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 2: I got to see that as well. But you're so right,

447
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: because you know movie producers, movie, you know executives in

448
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 2: film or white so it's all the depictions of He

449
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 2: heard a great story on white fragility today, even about

450
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: the blind Side movie and how it was just it

451
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: was glorified so much right, And Sandra Bullet whins this

452
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 2: oscar for her depiction of a.

453
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 3: White savior right coming in.

454
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 2: And then the one black person in it was the

455
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 2: kid who made it good in the NFL, right, But

456
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: he was never depicted very smart. He was depicted like

457
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: he was a little slow, like the kid was doing

458
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 2: his contract. And I started thinking about this as she's

459
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 2: telling me that I was listening to it I'm.

460
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 3: Not having on audiobook, and I was like, that is

461
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 3: so right.

462
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 2: Again, this great movie that is so celebrating is depicting

463
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: the one black person as not very smart, only could

464
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 2: give in an athletic standpoint. And then when there's a

465
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: one scene where he goes back to his neighborhood where

466
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 2: he gets, you know, basically attacked by two black youths

467
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 2: and saved by the white mom coming in, and I'm like,

468
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 2: oh my god, I had never thought of.

469
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 3: That movie like that.

470
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 2: So I think it's really important for people to understand

471
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 2: that black.

472
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 3: People have and it's because that's that's what we see

473
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 3: all the time. And I think that's the beauty of

474
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 3: of what Tyler Perry has done on John Ridley and

475
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 3: other black directors and producers because they're telling our stories

476
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 3: and they're not all they're not all glorified, but at

477
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 3: least they have the knowledge to be able to go

478
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 3: from here to here and a wide range of stories

479
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 3: that are real that truly happen in the way that

480
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 3: they happen, as opposed to someone who's never been in

481
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 3: our skin tries to tell us who we are. And

482
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 3: that's why it's been you know, it's been frustrated in

483
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 3: Hollywood even for our black actors to get these leading

484
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 3: roles that don't have to be about white people all

485
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 3: the time, right, But it's it's the way that the

486
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 3: director or the producer, that's their mindset, that's their visual

487
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,719
Speaker 3: so that's what they depict and that's who they cast.

488
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 3: But it's what they're showing the rest of the world

489
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 3: and how they're depicting people of color, And I think

490
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 3: the beautiful thing and watching the protests and in the

491
00:27:54,920 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 3: last week, are you know the hundreds of thousands of

492
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 3: collective people of all colors that are protesting around this country,

493
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 3: in America and the world around the world. I got

494
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 3: a video from a friend in New Zealand that said, hey,

495
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 3: we are standing with you, Kat. We know it's tough

496
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 3: I can't imagine what you're going through or what you're feeling.

497
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 3: But here's what we're doing in New Zealand, and it

498
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 3: was a sea of people marching Black Lives Matter and

499
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 3: George Floyd Floyd and other names. And I'm sitting there

500
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 3: going Zeland. I had friends in Germany they did the

501
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 3: same thing. So you know this is a global if.

502
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 3: This is a human issue, human issue.

503
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: This episode of the Racket Magazine podcast is brought to

504
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: you by Sergio Tacchini, revitalizing and disrupting the status quo

505
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: since nineteen sixty six. Follow them on Instagram at Sergia

506
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: Underscore Official and go to Sergia to Kini dot com

507
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: for more. Enter the promo code Racket mag at checkout

508
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: and you'll get thirty percent off your order. I want

509
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: to link what we're talking about right now to something

510
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: you said a little bit earlier, because from my perspective,

511
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: one thing that is seeming to for some white people

512
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: connect the dots is what you said earlier about this

513
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: has been happening forever. We're just starting to film it,

514
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: we're just starting to see it. We're and I think

515
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: some of the understanding of systemic protests police force policy,

516
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: reparations that had to call about reparations with.

517
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 3: My father two days ago.

518
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: Just the idea that now that white people are learning

519
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: to get less defensive and try to open their eyes

520
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: a little bit more about some of these systemic benefits

521
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: and not make black people do the work, and not

522
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,479
Speaker 1: make black people have all the solutions, but instead look

523
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: at ourselves, step back and make more room. Do you

524
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: feel that if you were president the USDA tomorrow and

525
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: you didn't have to be your more PC self and

526
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: account for some of the white defensiveness you're going to

527
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: encounter and account for some of the pushback, you know,

528
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: and the work you're going to have to do to

529
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: be seen as worthy. As you said, I'm curious what

530
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: would that be like? What would you say? What would

531
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: be different? And can you look to do some of

532
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: that stuff now that you're maybe thinking that white people.

533
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 3: Can fucking handle it. Finally, it wouldn't be any different

534
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 3: than what I did when I was president, and I

535
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 3: think that was the beauty of it. I was very

536
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 3: authentic and the speeches that I made, and you know,

537
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 3: we have our annual meeting or SEEMI annual meeting, where

538
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 3: I caught a State of a Union address, and so

539
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 3: I was very fortunate and lucky to have my parents attend,

540
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 3: you know, the US Open or the annual meetings throughout

541
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 3: my presidency and for them to see the success as

542
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 3: to what they, you know, the reaped the rewards of

543
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 3: what they sowed in me. And I specifically remember his speech.

544
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 3: It was during the med Too movement four three or

545
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 3: four years ago, and I was talking about diversity and

546
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: with women, but also talking about the other issues that

547
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 3: were going on in America at the time when our

548
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: leadership in this country changed and the hatred that was

549
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 3: being put out there on a daily basis, and I

550
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 3: referenced in front of eleven hundred people and saying, you know,

551
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 3: it's very sad that in twenty seventeen, whatever year it was.

552
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 3: You know. So my parents were born and raised in

553
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 3: Mississippi in the thirties, and they grew up in the

554
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 3: cotton fields, and they went on to get a college

555
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 3: education and moved to Chicago and went through the civil

556
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 3: rights movement, this, this, this, and this, and if we

557
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 3: don't learn from their history and what they endured and

558
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 3: what we now continue to endure on a different level,

559
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 3: you know, it's just a more professional level if you

560
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 3: will as to as to the systemic biases that we

561
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 3: have here in America now, if we don't change and

562
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: really step up and speak forward for change, it will

563
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 3: never happen. So I already preach that within our family

564
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 3: of the USCA, and it resonated with many. I'm sure

565
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 3: I had some people tilting their heads to the side,

566
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 3: but I had many people that walked up to thank

567
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 3: me for sharing those stories or my opinions and to

568
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 3: getting them to see things through a different through a

569
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 3: different lens, because, as we mentioned earlier, if you're in

570
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 3: your isolated community and the people that you deal with,

571
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 3: how can you allow yourself to open up to think

572
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 3: differently if you are not in those situations. So, yes,

573
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 3: tomorrow I would speak about what's happening right now, how

574
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: it has affected our future players of our sport, and

575
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 3: the fear that has been injected in these young black

576
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 3: kids of wanting to go into these white communities to

577
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 3: play in tournaments because of the fear of how they're

578
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 3: going to be looked at, how they're going to be viewed,

579
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 3: And I'm wondering if they're going to show show up

580
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 3: at home a lot it's it's a problem, and we

581
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 3: have a problem already in the sport where you know,

582
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 3: people are who they are and their true colors come out,

583
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 3: and so, you know, I often received complaints from parents

584
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 3: where their kids have been called the inWORD, or they've

585
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 3: been called the inWORD at tournaments and that they've been

586
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 3: you know, overtly cheated by officials or whomever. Because it's real.

587
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 3: And of course I receive those I understand them, I

588
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 3: believe them, and I take it to the powers that

589
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 3: be within the organization to do something about it. But

590
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 3: I don't know if the people before me or the

591
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 3: people after me to see these complaints, because people say, well,

592
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 3: it's no need to be complaining because they're not going

593
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 3: to understand, they're not going to listen, or if they

594
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 3: get them, they probably say, oh, that's not happening and

595
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 3: push it aside. I don't know that, So I can

596
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 3: only be responsible for the powers that I had, the

597
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 3: actions that I took, and the confidence that I've built

598
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 3: in people to entrust their stories with me and for

599
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,720
Speaker 3: me to turn around and be able to voice them

600
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 3: at a level where people didn't have a choice but

601
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 3: to listen. So I'm not in that position anymore. I'm

602
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 3: still on the board, i still voice my opinions. So

603
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 3: the challenge now is, after our recent events, is getting

604
00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 3: our kids, you know, kids of color, comfortable and going

605
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 3: to these tournaments, going outside of their comfort zone, traveling

606
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 3: and being accepted and feeling like they belong because all

607
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 3: of the events in the last ten days showing them

608
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 3: that they don't. How do you how do you get

609
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 3: a child to believe that they're welcome, is that they

610
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 3: should that they're equal, because it's been proven that they're not.

611
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 3: I mean, it took it took over a week to

612
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 3: charge these other three cops. That's what the protest was about.

613
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 3: Arrest the other cops. It happened yesterday, the day before

614
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 3: the memorial. So so it's difficult I run a program.

615
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 3: And I'm actually grateful that we're not in session right

616
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 3: now because of COVID because it would be very difficult

617
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 3: to get them to understand that. And we have a

618
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 3: diverse program. So how do we we now have to

619
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 3: train the kids to that there are friends before COVID.

620
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: Let's hop they're friends afterwards and they're not looking at

621
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 3: each other differently. Yet they're too young to realize the

622
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 3: impact of this, but we know they're not because kids

623
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 3: are smarter than we are these days. They're more savvy

624
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,439
Speaker 3: than we are, and they can definitely manage just saying

625
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 3: way better than we can. So that's my concern right now,

626
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 3: and that's my cry at the same time, because I'm

627
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 3: not sure how to deal with that. It's hard for

628
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 3: me to deal with it. Let's deal with it, And

629
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 3: it's hard for me to talk about it without being emotional.

630
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 3: So the first time a child comes up to me

631
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 3: to ask a question or make a comment about that,

632
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,959
Speaker 3: I'm afraid for that moment, for me, not for the child.

633
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 3: Of course, I will come up with the right things

634
00:36:55,040 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 3: to say, but it's gonna be hard to rebuild that

635
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 3: security and that safety net for our kids, and we're

636
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 3: doing it through sports, and sport's taken away right now,

637
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 3: so they don't even have the outlet right now to

638
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 3: let go of their anger on the court. Smash as

639
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 3: many rackets as you want, because I know you've been

640
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 3: cooped up in the house and you've got a lot

641
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 3: of inks built up in you, but that tennis court

642
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 3: is their safe haven where they can really express themselves

643
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 3: and be who they are without being judged, and it's

644
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,280
Speaker 3: gonna be hard to bring that back.

645
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to sort of acknowledge that again, like

646
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: it's not up to black people to solve problems that

647
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: this white power structure continues to reinforce. So thinking about

648
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: that and power structure, my context is media. I came

649
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: up through newsrooms like the Washington Post in time, and

650
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: I saw the people in charge. They didn't speak to me.

651
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: They certainly didn't speak to people of color. And so

652
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 1: on every diversity committee that I was on or every

653
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: attempt that I made, was to challenge power, because to me,

654
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: power is a lot of this is about really too right.

655
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: Police can get away with this because they have power,

656
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 1: and we have not treated black people like they deserve

657
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 1: power or they have righteous anger at when power is abused,

658
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: which is why it's a perpetual system. So in the

659
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: context of Tennis, my question about power, who has it

660
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,919
Speaker 1: and how we can make sure it's more equitably distributed

661
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: are things that I'm using my magazine to do. And

662
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: I want to know what your thought is about some

663
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: of the power structures changing, because it can't just be

664
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: black people fixing this. And I think when I look

665
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: at what tennis can be, the best of tennis, a

666
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: place for trailblazers, a place for political activists in the sixties.

667
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: I look at ash, I look at Billy Jean advocating

668
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: for women. It's the only sport that women can really

669
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: truly make something remotely equaling the men out of every sport.

670
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: The LGBT rights trans rights. Tennis was and has been

671
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: a time ahead of the curve. I think it's fallen behind,

672
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: and I'd like to see it get back out in

673
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: front again. And I wonder what the power structures that

674
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: we can talk about can start to change to change that.

675
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so see, I'd like to eliminate the word power.

676
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 3: Tell me more. That's where it is. I mean that

677
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 3: cop felt that he had the power to do what

678
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 3: he did. The one person who thinks he's the most

679
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 3: powerful person in this world is the root of all

680
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 3: of our causes, particularly here in America, because he's made

681
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 3: everyone think that being racist, being biased, being a bigot

682
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 3: is absolutely okay. And so therefore things have escalated in

683
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 3: the last three and a half years to where we

684
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 3: are now. And until we get him out of this

685
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 3: office and people get out and register and vote to

686
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 3: make change, not just at the top, but every two

687
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 3: years in between for the congressmen and women and House

688
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 3: of Representatives and our judges in particular. Unless we are

689
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 3: are bridget and vigilant and doing what we're supposed to

690
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 3: do every two years and that every four years, then

691
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 3: we won't have change it. Yep.

692
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 2: It starts from the city local level all the way.

693
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 2: You got to start at the bottom to get to

694
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 2: the top. And that's there's no doubt about that.

695
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: You know.

696
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 2: On a lighter note, Cat Can I just because you know,

697
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: I have known you a long time, but.

698
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 3: One of the things that I did love about.

699
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 2: You being the president of the UCA was that for

700
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: the first time I looked up into the president's box

701
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 2: and it was like ninety five percent of the people

702
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 2: in there were like people just like you, And I

703
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 2: was like, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen.

704
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 3: I look it up.

705
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: You know me, I'm sitting at this You always spot me.

706
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 2: I'm down there working for espen right behind the unpunch.

707
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 3: It wasn't ninety percent, but it was a big difference.

708
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 3: It was ninety percent more than what was their previous year.

709
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 3: You know. One of the things that I people have said, oh, well,

710
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 3: you know you you, you know, Kat really changed the

711
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 3: look of the president's suite with her friends and family,

712
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 3: and so I said, yeah, because my friends and family

713
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 3: look like me. I said, So you can't tell me

714
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 3: that the presidents before me didn't have their friends and

715
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,439
Speaker 3: family in there. They looked like them, so you didn't

716
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 3: know who they were, so you couldn't judge and say, oh,

717
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 3: they must they must be her family and friends. Many

718
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 3: of them were business people as well, and so again,

719
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 3: you know, it's just the mindset and the thought that

720
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 3: they had to be just her family and friends. Now

721
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 3: many days they were actually, you know, well established and

722
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 3: successful business people who happened to look like me, and

723
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 3: that I invited them because of whatever the relationships that

724
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 3: we had, our business relationships. So so yeah, that that's

725
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 3: changed changed last year. But which because I mean, let's

726
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 3: let's granted, Renee, if you were the president, most of

727
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 3: your family and friends are gonna look like you. Now

728
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 3: you do have a lot of friends of color if

729
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 3: the old Yeah, but we couldn't. We can't tell by

730
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 3: just looking at you. We see white. First. All I'm

731
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 3: gonna see is white, right, So I don't see the

732
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 3: inclusive part. Okay, unless everybody's wearing a rainbow or there's

733
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 3: something to identify themselves right, which it probably would feel,

734
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 3: which is great. But that's that's what I'm saying. So

735
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 3: we we can't judge on the surface. You didn't and

736
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 3: that's what and that's what Black people are judged every

737
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 3: day because of the color of their skin, which starts

738
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 3: a conversation down that path. But if you're gay or lesbian,

739
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 3: they don't see that initially. All they see is white

740
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 3: or black until until it's brought to their attention, Oh

741
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 3: well I'm gay or I'm a lesbian, and then that

742
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 3: starts enough sparks another conversation. But at the end of

743
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 3: the day, everything is black and white.

744
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: First, do you think if you were if I have

745
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 1: a six year old, if my six year old was black,

746
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: he's not. Would you tell my son that tennis was

747
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: a more welcoming place for him than other sports or

748
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: all things being equal, should he look elsewhere?

749
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 3: I think the entry level of our sport is very

750
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 3: welcoming and that it's factual, and that's why we have

751
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 3: I mean, Renee has been a part of some of

752
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 3: these NJTL programs around the country, and it's not just

753
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 3: n JTL. They have a membership of to be in

754
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 3: the in certain chapters, but there's thousands of other programs

755
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 3: that are like them that just don't have the criteria

756
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 3: to be in JTAIL. So there are a lot of

757
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 3: free programs or low cost programs. With tennis, you know,

758
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 3: if you can get your child in a diverse obviously

759
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 3: program it depends on where you are. But at the

760
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 3: end of the day, it's up to the parents to

761
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 3: teach our kids and to make sure that we're putting

762
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 3: them in environments that I diverse, that they can learn

763
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 3: about all races. So whether it's our sport, I mean,

764
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 3: do you want to put them in in in basketball

765
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 3: or football where maybe predominantly black, it it's not going

766
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 3: to learn the different cultures and how to really communicate

767
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 3: with people that don't look like him. I mean, if

768
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 3: you go to Texas, Hell football is all white. It

769
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 3: just depends on where you're from, right, depends on the communities.

770
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 3: So you can't I don't think you can pick the

771
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 3: sport because you want to want them to be in

772
00:44:55,040 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 3: a more a sport that is either black or white.

773
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,959
Speaker 3: It's really about what you want your child to learn

774
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 3: and what you want him to get out of support

775
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,959
Speaker 3: as a whole, and how he or she can develop. Well,

776
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what I mean.

777
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 2: One of the things that I've just been We've already

778
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: spoken about her, but you know, Serena's been great throughout

779
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: her career and Venus have both been great taking the

780
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: lead on many different social issues. But I have such

781
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 2: great faith in the next generation of kids. And I

782
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: think you know that was one of the things that

783
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 2: Reverend Sharpton said yes to today was that he has

784
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,319
Speaker 2: hope for the first time in his life because he's

785
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 2: looking at He's like, you know, in the sixties, it

786
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: was just people that look like me marching.

787
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 3: And he is.

788
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: Now it's a very diverse group of people that are

789
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 2: out there marching and demanding change.

790
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 3: And so he said, I really feel like that.

791
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 2: And I think in tennis, when you look at someone

792
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 2: like Coco goth at sixteen years of age sort of

793
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,479
Speaker 2: really taking a stand in Francis Tiafo and both both

794
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 2: of them young, great pioneers in the sport with a name,

795
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 2: that's where I feel really happy with the sport of

796
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 2: tennis that they are going to make a huge difference

797
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 2: in someone like Coco.

798
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 3: If she continues to go the way.

799
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: She does, boy, she could be a change maker. And

800
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 2: I said, I tweeted out that she's what Billy Jean

801
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 2: was fifty years ago for fighting for women's rights. And

802
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 2: I just feel like Coco is going to be a

803
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 2: I hope she continues to play the way she's been

804
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 2: doing and she could be a huge catalyst for the

805
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 2: sport of tennis anyway of getting people involved. Kat, I'd

806
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 2: be remiss if I didn't ask you that.

807
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 3: At that moment at the US Open.

808
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 2: Where you had to sort of you, I would imagine

809
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 2: that you felt like you were such in the middle

810
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 2: with Serena and Naomi and what.

811
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 3: Happened during that US up and final and being your friend.

812
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: I know the person that you are, and you know,

813
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 2: I know that was a lot of slack thrown at

814
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: you for various reasons. People had a lot of opinions.

815
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 2: I want to know what that moment was like for you,

816
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 2: Like personally, you.

817
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 3: Know, it was challenging. You don't know how you're going

818
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 3: to react or what you're going to say in those instances.

819
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 3: You know, I tell the story, It's in my book

820
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 3: on the Arena comes out in March, but it's really

821
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,240
Speaker 3: you know, there's a period. There was a five's probably

822
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 3: six minute period of me moving from the suite down

823
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 3: to court side of where I kind of missed the

824
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 3: entire altercation of the penalty. So by the time I

825
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 3: got down court side, it was five ' three and

826
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 3: I'm going, what's going on? So they're trying to tell

827
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 3: me court side, but nobody down below could hear what

828
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 3: was happening, so I had to go inside to the

829
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 3: TV to kind of hear the commentating and try to,

830
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 3: you know, understand what it happened or what was transpiring

831
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 3: out there. So I was just as shocked as many

832
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 3: other people when that moment came. But in understanding the

833
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 3: penalty and what was said, understanding what was said to

834
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 3: warrant the penalty, I go, okay, yeah, I get that,

835
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,919
Speaker 3: But timing is everything, right. You don't do that when

836
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 3: you already have a point, do that or warning or

837
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 3: maybe a point, but not for a game. So when

838
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 3: you talk about the code, it is what it is now.

839
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 3: I don't agree with the first warning that was given

840
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 3: which got us into this mess or got her into

841
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 3: this mess. But for me, when I had to go

842
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 3: out there and speak. You know, I'm trying to come

843
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 3: up with words that I'm not sure where they're coming from.

844
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 3: I know where they're coming from my heart, if you will,

845
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 3: Because I wanted to make sure that Naomi recognize that

846
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 3: that she got the applause that she deserves this first

847
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 3: time Grand Slam champion, in first time US Open champign

848
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 3: We yet trying to empathize with Serena and the things

849
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 3: that it had transpired on the court and the outcome

850
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 3: of those behaviors and the penalties that were assessed.

851
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 2: And Kat, You've known You've known Serena for twenty plus years,

852
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 2: so this is you know, this is a lot of

853
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 2: you know, presidents don't really have that you know, friendship

854
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 2: slash connection with players. It kind of like heads of

855
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,359
Speaker 2: state where they don't really know the players that well.

856
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: You know her, So that's where your empathy comes out

857
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 2: for that situation, so you know.

858
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 3: But so so you know, the ceremony starts, and you know,

859
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 3: I've got butterflies inside because I'm you know, I can't

860
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 3: believe what's just transpired in the crowd and and and

861
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 3: her outbursts on the court, et cetera. And so, you know,

862
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 3: you start the trophy presentation and Tom you know, immediately

863
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 3: says welcome to the United States Tennis and I'm like,

864
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 3: twenty thousand people are booing and I'm going, oh shit,

865
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 3: like smiling but going wow. Right, so you don't know

866
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 3: what that feels like to be on the receiving end.

867
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 3: And after he says that, here's the chairman and president

868
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 3: of the USTA, and I'm looking at him, going, now,

869
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 3: you want to give me the mic? Now? So I'm like, yeah, okay,

870
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 3: I'm trying to digest all of this, and you know,

871
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 3: my words are getting jumbled. I thought I did a

872
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 3: pretty good job. But what I didn't explain is that

873
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 3: the one comment that got me in trouble was when

874
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 3: I referenced the outcome of the match, and I was

875
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 3: referring to the outcome of the circumstances that happened in

876
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 3: the match, right, not the winner. And so people says, oh,

877
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 3: you wanted Serenda to win because she was black? Dude,

878
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 3: did you happen to look at the other player? So

879
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 3: you know, I got in Twitter sphere. I was just

880
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 3: ostras I mean, it was like I had to just

881
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 3: put my phone away because it was just buzzing the

882
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 3: whole time of how you know, how disingenuous my comments

883
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 3: were and how biased they were, and this, that and

884
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 3: the other. And I'm going, what are you talking about?

885
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 3: Because I hadn't heard. I thought I gave a pretty

886
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 3: good speech, got through it. It was a nightmare, and

887
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 3: so I didn't really know until I didn't even hear

888
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 3: what I had said until I was on ESPN the

889
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 3: next day for an interview before the men's final, and

890
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 3: so I'm going, oh, that's what they're talking about. I'm like, okay, yeah,

891
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 3: but that's not what I meant. So you've decided what

892
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 3: You've decided what the interpretation is as to what I

893
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 3: said that it was about Serena, and it really wasn't

894
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 3: about Serena. It was about the behavior. It was about

895
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 3: the umpire, It was about the booing and a championship match.

896
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 3: This is not the outcome that you want to see

897
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 3: in the finals of a Grand Slam, right, That's what

898
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 3: I was talking about for outcomes. So you know, for

899
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 3: two days in hant of me, I had to go

900
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 3: on CBS this morning Tuesday, which is two days after

901
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 3: the freaking event, and and it just never stopped. So

902
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 3: I have no regrets. You know, I wouldn't change anything,

903
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 3: maybe clarify what outcome I was talking about, but it

904
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 3: definitely wasn't about the outcome of who won the match,

905
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 3: because I couldn't be more proud of Naomi, you know,

906
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 3: and following her Reneo now she was, you know, it

907
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 3: was And I even wanted to say, you know, she

908
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 3: was once a rising star who has now risen because

909
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 3: she won the rising Star event at the WTA Finals

910
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 3: in Singapore a couple of years before, and now that

911
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 3: star has risen to be a Grand Slam champion and

912
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 3: she grew up in Queens. Yeah, I mean I so

913
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 3: I could not be more proud of her and what

914
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 3: she'd accomplished and you know, really reaching her dream of

915
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 3: a beating Serena and he was open finals. So you

916
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 3: can't write a better script for this, but it is

917
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 3: what it is, And.

918
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: You know I do when I think of that match

919
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: and the way you handle it specifically, I don't think

920
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: anything other than I'm glad this was a woman who

921
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 1: is doing this. I'm glad this is a woman of

922
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: color who's doing this. I'm glad this is a woman

923
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: who's played on the tour because so often you have commentators, leaders,

924
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 1: speechmakers who you know, have not spent a lot of

925
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: time in an empathetic position, who would even make those calculations,

926
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And that's what I think

927
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: a lot about when I think about who gets to

928
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: talk about the sport, who gets to leave the sport,

929
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: who gets to have magazines about the sport, who gets

930
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: to be booked on all the morning shows about the sport?

931
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: And so for me, what I takeaway is that was

932
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: landing a plane in a real turbulent storm, you know,

933
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: like the plane got to the tarmac and can I.

934
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 2: Just say, I don't think people realize how big that

935
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 2: stadium is. And how do you is to actually have

936
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:02,919
Speaker 2: a mind in front of you when the lights are

937
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 2: glaring on you and you have to make it perfect.

938
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 2: I mean, give me a break. It's not It's not easy.

939
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, it's listen. I things happened for a reason.

940
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 3: I was in that role for a reason because I

941
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 3: could empathize with with the players, with the situation, with

942
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 3: the umpire, with everybody that was involved, right because I

943
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 3: was that player and now I'm that person of color

944
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 3: h and because of that you know, I went off script.

945
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 3: You know, I had my speech and notes whatever, but

946
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 3: I couldn't rely on those because that wasn't the moment

947
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 3: to just, you know, be generic. That was the moment

948
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 3: to really be authentic, of which I tried to do.

949
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 3: And I'm proud of what I did and how I

950
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 3: handled it. And you're right it was the right person,

951
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,879
Speaker 3: because I will tell you that my successor. I got

952
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 3: back in the suite and said, oh boy, better you

953
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 3: than me, because I don't know how I would have

954
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 3: dealt with that. And and I laughed at him. I like, yeah,

955
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 3: you you yea. I said, yeah, you owe me big time, buddy,

956
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 3: you owe me big time.

957
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 2: But but that was Pat Gilbert, who of course was

958
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,760
Speaker 2: a former player himself and a very very very very

959
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 2: nice guy.

960
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 3: And yeah, of course, but but but still a white

961
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,280
Speaker 3: guy in that situation. I don't care who it was. Remember,

962
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 3: always see is color. We don't look at credentials. We

963
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,839
Speaker 3: don't know credentials of people. The average person sitting at

964
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 3: home has no idea what his background or credentials are. Right,

965
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 3: they don't know what my background or credentials are. They

966
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 3: always see his color first, and and we're judged on

967
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 3: what comes out of our mouth based on that, and

968
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 3: then they ask questions later. Right then they then they

969
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 3: google to kind of find out what your what your

970
00:55:55,640 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 3: credential credentials are. But you know it's I'm okay. I mean,

971
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 3: you know again, I didn't sleep for a week only

972
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 3: because I could not get in touch with Naomi, because

973
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 3: I wanted to make sure that she understood that what

974
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 3: I was saying was not against her and that I

975
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 3: was applauding her, et cetera. And you know, I'd reached

976
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 3: out to her coach at the time, Sasha, and it

977
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 3: sent a long text because I've known him since he

978
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 3: was nineteen when he came on as a hating partner

979
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:31,439
Speaker 3: of Serena, and we've become we've become really good friends

980
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 3: over the years, so I knew I reached out to him,

981
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 3: and I didn't hear back from him for like a week.

982
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 3: But of course he just wanted Grand Slam, so he's

983
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 3: probably got a thousand text he coming in. So about

984
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 3: five or six days later, I reached out to him

985
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 3: again and he said, oh my god, I didn't see it.

986
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 3: He goes, you have no idea how many texts I

987
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 3: got and I didn't respond to all of I couldn't

988
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 3: get catch up with them. Blah blah blah blah blah.

989
00:56:54,920 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 3: And he accepted my you know, reasoning to mylogy. If

990
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 3: my words were misconstrued, this, that and the other. And

991
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 3: I needed to speak to Naomi, and he's like, hey,

992
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 3: we're going to dinner. They were in Japan. It's like,

993
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 3: we're actually going to dinner in an hour. Just give

994
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 3: her a call. Here's a number. She'd love to hear

995
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 3: from you. And that was it. And you know, she

996
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 3: accepted my words. She knew that I didn't mean any

997
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 3: harm from her. It wasn't about me. It was about

998
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 3: the entire experience that that she was taken aback from.

999
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 3: And I just want to add one thing about that.

1000
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 2: You know, I've spoken a lot about co CO, but

1001
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 2: I do want to say that Naomi.

1002
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 3: Has also stepped up in the last week a lot

1003
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 3: as well. And social, Yeah, yeah, it's been great. You know,

1004
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 3: when you're black, you know that you're black, or if

1005
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 3: you think that you're different, someone reminds you that you're black.

1006
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 3: And and you better believe that Naomi has been in

1007
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 3: positions to be reminded that she's black and that she

1008
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 3: is not Japanese, and that's sad. It's really sad. So

1009
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 3: the power, the strength that she's had since twenty year

1010
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 3: was it eighteen twenty eighteen US Open, I'm not going

1011
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen US soapin and then beat Coco and bring

1012
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 3: her on the court. She knows that she's that role

1013
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 3: model now and she's the next leader of the sport,

1014
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 3: and the next leader of the sport who's of color.

1015
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 3: And this isn't the only time that I've seen her

1016
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 3: step up and step out of a comfort zone. She's

1017
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 3: done it before and she'll do it in the future.

1018
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 3: And so I am so excited about the future of

1019
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 3: our sport with our young players not hiding behind a

1020
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 3: racket only and being able to talk about social issues,

1021
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 3: both the men and the women, boys and girls. And

1022
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 3: I think it's a great future. And I think, you know,

1023
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 3: Billy Jean King has to be proud as to what

1024
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 3: she's witnessing from this particular generation in particular, I mean,

1025
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 3: you know, our generation. I think we still had to

1026
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:16,439
Speaker 3: be somewhat politically correct. Yes, I stepped out on many

1027
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 3: limbs and said things or did things differently, but I

1028
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 3: also was more politically correct in statements than being very

1029
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 3: authentic because of who I represented behind me or as

1030
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 3: an organization. And I don't go back on anything that

1031
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 3: I said, and everything that I said for me was

1032
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 3: true and authentic. Probably could have added a little more

1033
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 3: color to some things, but I didn't.

1034
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 2: But I know, because you know, I'm not going to

1035
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 2: give your email address out on our podcast, but I

1036
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 2: don't need to tell her what your old email used

1037
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 2: to be because it was a little bit helpful than

1038
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 2: what it is now.

1039
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 3: Let's just say that well was Hollywood.

1040
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 1: So what what we just talked about with the US

1041
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 1: OPEN is in your book? You have written a book.

1042
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 1: It's coming out.

1043
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 3: Also come out in July, but because of COVID is

1044
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 3: coming out in March, because we didn't have any time

1045
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 3: to promote it. We can't travel and really doing is

1046
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 3: speaking engagement. So we've moved into March twenty.

1047
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 2: One, right before the inding and Well swing, and hopefully

1048
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 2: we'll have an opportunity to really promote it properly next year.

1049
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 3: Can I still ask you some questions about it? Yeah? Sure,

1050
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 3: I notice.

1051
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: Obviously the US Open, the incident we just talked about,

1052
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: sort of the fallout and your many sort of considerations

1053
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: and being a leader and wanting to do right by everybody,

1054
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: but at the same time handle hostile crowd. You know,

1055
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: kind of illustrates the balancing act of being a prominent woman,

1056
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 1: needing to represent in some cases maybe not always feeling

1057
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: like representing. And I'm struck by the subtitle of the book,

1058
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 1: which is called getting ahead, making a difference, and succeeding

1059
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 1: as the only one, right.

1060
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 3: I mean, let's see, I'm only African American to be

1061
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 3: the president of the USTA, and you know, there's a

1062
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 3: lot of only that I that come behind me. And

1063
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 3: you know, when you're when you're a leader in an organization,

1064
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 3: my thing is not my goal is not to be

1065
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 3: the only one. I prefer the title it's being the first,

1066
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 3: because if you're the first, you're trying to bring many

1067
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 3: behind you. But when I was in that office, I

1068
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 3: was the only former player. Now there's a second one

1069
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 3: with Patrick, but there are a lot of onlies. I

1070
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 3: was the youngest, which means I was the only one

1071
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 3: of that age. So that's what a lot of that's

1072
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 3: what the only one references. But there will be a

1073
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 3: lot of innu windows about being that only one and

1074
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 3: what it means. And so when you talk about own

1075
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 3: own the arena, it means really own your space, own

1076
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 3: your own your arena. It can be it's not about

1077
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 3: a stadium or building. It's about your space. It's about

1078
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 3: that moment. So you know, it's owning your voice, it's

1079
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 3: owning your opportunities, it's owning the table as a chairwoman

1080
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 3: of that board and being on other boards. And so

1081
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 3: hopefully it's a teaching tool for many of the readers

1082
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 3: that will that will read it that they can use

1083
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 3: in their own growth, uh in business. But also there's

1084
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 3: a lot of stories in regards to how tennis prepared

1085
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 3: me for these various situations and opportunities and moments to

1086
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 3: succeed in life and make a difference in others in

1087
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 3: others lives.

1088
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 2: All right, So I'd be remiss and not ask you

1089
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 2: what was your greatest tennis moment because we talk about

1090
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 2: you know, we're talking about you like you're this you

1091
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 2: know person that sits in boardrooms, but you replay for

1092
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 2: a number of yews, like what was your favorite tennis

1093
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 2: moment other than.

1094
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 3: What if I am with you renee, when I either

1095
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 3: one of us could play the deuce court. Okay, So

1096
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 3: so that was a that was the biggest moment, and

1097
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 3: and we just did that work out very well.

1098
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: You know.

1099
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 3: It's interesting, I would say many of my greatest moments

1100
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 3: are actually losses. You know, as a rookie, I got

1101
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 3: to the fourth round of Wimbled and I lost to

1102
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 3: Chris Severed in three sets. You know, when I was frash,

1103
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 3: I was Hollywood, it was cocky. Well I'm still cocky

1104
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 3: and thinking, you know, and thinking that I was gonna

1105
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 3: win that match until I looked up at the scoreboard

1106
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 3: and realized that I could win the match or was

1107
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 3: maybe on my way of winning it, and lost focus.

1108
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 3: So you learn from those You learn from that to say, Okay, yeah,

1109
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 3: I did lose to one of the greatest players of

1110
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 3: all time, and you have to contribute that. You know,

1111
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 3: she got her game together. She'd never played me before,

1112
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 3: so she figured my game out. I was out of shape,

1113
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 3: so I ran out of gas as well. But I mean,

1114
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 3: that's that was a big moment for me in a

1115
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 3: sport that I from the West side of Chicago. I'm

1116
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 3: a Wimbledon playing Chris Evert, whose name was on the

1117
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 3: first record that I had. You know that that's kind

1118
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 3: of surreal, right, it's full circle and when we're great

1119
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 3: friends today. One of the times in beating Martina and

1120
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 3: and Pam, you know, when they were still the greatest

1121
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 3: and I was actually playing with Mercedes Pods at Hiltonhead

1122
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 3: Family's Circle, and I mean just that feeling of beating

1123
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 3: this team. I played them numerous times before and hadn't

1124
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 3: won it, had the post matches, but you know it's

1125
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:36,479
Speaker 3: other times I beat Menuela Malayva frontier at the time

1126
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 3: she was number three in the world. You know, great

1127
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 3: match where I was in that tunnel focused vision, you know,

1128
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 3: from start to finish. But other losses are losing to

1129
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 3: Stephie like five and five, knowing that I was there

1130
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 3: and and had and was competitive, lost to Helena Takova six,

1131
01:04:55,640 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 3: six and six. You know, I mean, what a man.

1132
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 3: But you know, unfortunately I didn't, I didn't take those

1133
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 3: moments to take me to the next level. It was,

1134
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 3: so those are those are very interesting moments. But I

1135
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 3: won twenty I won twenty titles and probably lost twenty finals.

1136
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 3: So it's it doubles and I and I think, you know,

1137
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 3: I had a very good career, a very solid career.

1138
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 3: Could I could I have been more successful probably, But

1139
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 3: I always had me having.

1140
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 2: A good time back then, right, I mean seriously not

1141
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 2: playing I was.

1142
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 3: I was having fun, but I was also political, I

1143
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 3: was on the board. I had a lot of things

1144
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 3: that were taking my focus off of just training and playing.

1145
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 3: And I don't regret it because they prepared.

1146
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 2: Me for what I've been able to accomplish today. Photos

1147
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 2: of us playing this softball game you remember.

1148
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 3: We used to have in Miami at Kipus game.

1149
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 2: Used to have a softball game was the player is

1150
01:05:57,080 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 2: against the WTA stuff. Yeah, had no chance, that's totally

1151
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 2: And there's a photo of Katrina I still got it

1152
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 2: somewhere cattle find and a my green baby suit, my

1153
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 2: shorts and then remember and you guys would give me

1154
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 2: ship the way I caught with the glove, And I

1155
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 2: mean it was.

1156
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 3: Just we just we had it was a different mindset

1157
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:18,880
Speaker 3: back then.

1158
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 2: It was we were such a collaborative group, like truly

1159
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 2: we were all good friends. And you know, and Chrissy

1160
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 2: talks about that, like we had to have one another,

1161
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 2: we had to have one another's back, we had to

1162
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 2: practice together. We was only like if you had a coach.

1163
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 2: It was special. You know, you were like a really

1164
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 2: good play if you had to coach all the time

1165
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 2: with you. It was just like it was a different

1166
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 2: mindset back then.

1167
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 3: But it was also used to have these skits at Eastbourne,

1168
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 3: so every player had to be involved in a skit

1169
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 3: and you had to come up with your own team.

1170
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 2: No, not every player, not every pretty much pay me

1171
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 2: Pam here.

1172
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 3: It's about seven of us. But it was fun. But

1173
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 3: it was but it was a camaraderie and the friendship

1174
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 3: that was developed, you know, early on they kept each

1175
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:05,919
Speaker 3: week interesting because it was a grind out there.

1176
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 2: It was.

1177
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:09,240
Speaker 3: It was a much greater grind I think then. I

1178
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:13,720
Speaker 3: don't think I know than it is now because you know,

1179
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 3: the money is a lot different now for these players

1180
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 3: to be able to afford certain things. But we were scraping,

1181
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 3: you know, we were scraping our asses taking trains back

1182
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 3: and forth from Eastbourne, from Birmingham to Eastbourne, Eastbourne to

1183
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 3: Wimbledon and and so forth and so on. But you know,

1184
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 3: it was fun and I think, you know, the one

1185
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 3: thing that I can walk away from and and say

1186
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 3: that I had great relationships with the greatest players that

1187
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 3: I was not the Grand Slam champion. But yet I

1188
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:46,080
Speaker 3: can pick up the phone and call any player around

1189
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 3: the world if I'm in need, and that I'm friends

1190
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 3: with the greatest players in the world, from from Christina

1191
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 3: Martine to Stephanie to Monica to hinghas to Renee to

1192
01:07:56,440 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 3: everybody you know, and it's I mean, you can't. I

1193
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 3: can't trade that in No.

1194
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 2: Well, You'll always been my golf partner on tour, so

1195
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 2: so that's a good thing.

1196
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 3: Hey, have you been swinging a lately.

1197
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:11,480
Speaker 2: No, we've been in covid We can't play golf, but

1198
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:13,320
Speaker 2: I got to get you up here in Westchester. We

1199
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 2: gotta go play. Invite me man, I sold my you

1200
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:19,760
Speaker 2: have to come and pick me up. So pick me up.

1201
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:23,920
Speaker 2: I'll play anytime, all right. I'm going on a golf

1202
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,519
Speaker 2: weekend the morrow, so I'm going to PA tomorrow, but

1203
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 2: maybe the next weekend. Good listen, Kat, we could sit

1204
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:32,640
Speaker 2: here and talk to you for hours and hours and

1205
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:34,960
Speaker 2: hours about so many things about the I mean, the

1206
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 2: collaboration of the w t A at P two or

1207
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 2: we could have got into that, but we're going to

1208
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:39,719
Speaker 2: leave that for another pod.

1209
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 3: We got plenty of days, plenty of topics. I'm happy

1210
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 3: to join you, guys. I want to thank you for

1211
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:51,519
Speaker 3: reaching out ready because you know it's been a tough

1212
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 3: couple of weeks and you allowed me earlier to air

1213
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:59,839
Speaker 3: my feelings, my thoughts, my concerns, my fears on the phone,

1214
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:05,600
Speaker 3: of which I then elaborated further. You know, with you

1215
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 3: two here, it's been tough. And you know, and and

1216
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 3: and in an isolated quarantine world, you know, to sit

1217
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:19,800
Speaker 3: and watch this and what's transpired, and and you know,

1218
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 3: losing my dad three weeks ago, you know was a killer,

1219
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 3: you know most girls or daddy's girls, and that I was.

1220
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:30,599
Speaker 3: And you know I celebrated my parents.

1221
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 2: On tour wherever I went, they went, and in my

1222
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 2: events in recent years.

1223
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:37,640
Speaker 3: So this has allowed.

1224
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 2: Me to open up to uh really express myself in

1225
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 2: the most authentic way.

1226
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:45,960
Speaker 3: So I thank you all.

1227
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 2: Kay please come back your my ever, my ever friend,

1228
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 2: and I love you so. Uh Now instead of doing

1229
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 2: my pard, let's go and have a drink text summer.

1230
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 3: All was for that.

1231
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: And that's it for this episode of the Racket Magazine podcast.

1232
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.

1233
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 1: Our host is Renee Stubbs. Our co host and producer

1234
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:14,799
Speaker 1: is me Caitlin Thompson. Music by internationally renowned DJ Stretch Armstrong.

1235
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:17,760
Speaker 1: Thanks to Tim or Jerry and the team at ACAST.

1236
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:21,520
Speaker 1: Find us at racketmag dot com, slash podcast, and subscribe

1237
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 1: to us at any of your favorite podcatchers.