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Speaker 1: What is Up? Runner Gang, Welcome back to Post ran High.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode is with Baju Bot, the co founder of

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Speaker 1: robin Hood and someone who helped change the way an

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Speaker 1: entire generation thinks about money. If you're new here, this

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Speaker 1: podcast is all about inspiring conversations that start with movement,

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Speaker 1: because we believe movement opens people up and weighs nothing

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Speaker 1: else does. And today we kicked things off with a

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Speaker 1: run through the streets of New York before sitting down

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Speaker 1: to talk. And I have to mention that it was

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Speaker 1: one hundred and three degrees fahrenheit when we did our run,

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Speaker 1: so we were exhausted by the time we got to

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Speaker 1: this conversation. But I promise it's a good one. Baju's

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Speaker 1: story is one a vision, risk and reinvention. He co

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Speaker 1: founded Robinhood in twenty thirteen with a bold idea make

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Speaker 1: investing accessible to everyone, not just Wall Street insiders. Since then,

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Speaker 1: he's seen it all hypergrowth, cultural shifts, criticism, and countless

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Speaker 1: moments that help shape the modern fintech landscape. In this conversation,

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Speaker 1: we talk about where that original spark came from, what

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Speaker 1: it was like building through chaos, and how he's thinking

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Speaker 1: about purpose now. A few chapters later, we get into

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Speaker 1: his early life, his immigrant family roots, his friendship with

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Speaker 1: co founder Vlad, and what he's learned about leadership, humility

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Speaker 1: and doing the work that really matters. We have great

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Speaker 1: episodes coming up, so please make sure you follow the

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Speaker 1: show wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's get

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Speaker 1: our Post Run High going, baj you bought welcome to

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Speaker 1: Post Run High.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me and thanks for like actually challenging

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Speaker 2: me to do that. That was wild. That was super hot.

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Speaker 1: One hundred and three degrees outside, guys, heat wave in

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Speaker 1: New York. We ran from fid Eye over the Brooklyn Bridge.

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Speaker 1: How are you feeling feel.

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Speaker 2: A lot better now? I definitely dunked a whole thing

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Speaker 2: of water in my head, which I mean, you gotta

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Speaker 2: do what you gotta do.

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Speaker 1: Right. Well, you look great now. We I always tell

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Speaker 1: people coming on, I'm like bringing out fit change because

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Speaker 1: you just never know. And honestly, with this weather, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be strongly encouraging it because I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: you had a change of clothes because guys, we were

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Speaker 1: very sweaty.

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Speaker 2: Not only did I bring a change of clothes, I

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Speaker 2: brought my Tupac shirt. So I brought the beef with me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you brought the energy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we're learning a lot about your personality.

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Speaker 1: You've got the cat ring, the Tupac. Sure, we've got

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Speaker 1: the man bun. I'm loving it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, nice and sweaty man bun.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk a little bit about what movement looks

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Speaker 1: like in your life right now. I know we covered

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Speaker 1: it a bit on the Running Interview show, but let's

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Speaker 1: bring it back go a little deeper. What do you

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Speaker 1: love to do to work out?

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Speaker 2: As pretty overweight as a kid. Actually, I kind of

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Speaker 2: got to mention that a little bit in the run,

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Speaker 2: but growing up as my family moved here from India

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Speaker 2: and my parents my dad eat a little bit of

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Speaker 2: meat in India, but my mom was vegetarian. And then

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Speaker 2: you kind of like this is like eighties and nineties.

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Speaker 2: You go from that to American food, which it kind

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Speaker 2: of shows. The reason I mentioned that is my parents

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Speaker 2: are pretty small, like five five to one.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, they're small, you're tall.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that American food. It made me really big.

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Speaker 1: And do you think that that's a factor totally?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's probably there's some genetics in there. My grandpa

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Speaker 2: is kind of tall. Both my grandparents were kind of tall.

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Speaker 2: Grandfathers were pretty tall, my grandmothers were very small. But no,

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Speaker 2: it's it's kind of cool to see me next to

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Speaker 2: my parents. I'm way taller than them. The flip side

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Speaker 2: of that was I was eating American food and I

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Speaker 2: was pretty heavy set as a kid, And so when

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Speaker 2: I got to high school, I kind of had this

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Speaker 2: moment where I, I'll be honest, I got teased, like

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Speaker 2: I had some people say some pretty like mean things

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Speaker 2: to me, and I was like, okay, I need to.

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Speaker 2: I took it kind of personally. I'm like, all right,

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Speaker 2: I need to. I can't. I can't live my life

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Speaker 2: like this. And there was a summer between tenth grade

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Speaker 2: and eleventh grade where I lost like almost seventy pounds.

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Speaker 2: So I went from like I just look like a

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Speaker 2: totally different person at the end. I also grew my

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Speaker 2: hair out for the first time then, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of that happened from running. And when you're that heavy, right,

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Speaker 2: it's like you're really pushing through and like the mental

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Speaker 2: toughness that you have to have to be like, no,

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Speaker 2: it really sucks right now, I'm not actually in shape.

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Speaker 2: I can't actually run, but if I don't do this,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to get in shape, right, And you

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Speaker 2: kind of have to keep pushing and pushing and pushing.

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Speaker 2: So that's how I went from being big old kid

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Speaker 2: to being a little string bean by the time I

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Speaker 2: got to junior year of high school. And then after that,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of been this thing that's been a constant

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Speaker 2: in my life where for the first couple of years

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Speaker 2: after that, I felt like my body wanted to immediately

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Speaker 2: go back to its original weight, right, Like, if you

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Speaker 2: lose a bunch of weight, it's pretty hard to keep

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Speaker 2: it off.

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Speaker 1: There's like a science to that, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I did not think about the science of it

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Speaker 2: at all. I just kind of lived it. But by

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Speaker 2: the time I got to call it, I was a runner.

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Speaker 2: Like I would run almost every day. I would run

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Speaker 2: five miles and then it takes some days off, but

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Speaker 2: I would like run five miles most days. And as

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Speaker 2: I've gotten older, it's like one of these things that

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Speaker 2: I keep coming back to that, Like if you ever

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Speaker 2: need to think about something or you're kind of stuck

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Speaker 2: on a problem, we're talking about this a little bit.

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Speaker 2: When you're running right, Going out for run is a

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Speaker 2: great way to just kind of reset the brain and

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Speaker 2: take all those thoughts that it's kind of like you

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Speaker 2: get to unpack them in front of you and be like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: these pieces fit together like this in your mind. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So it's been a pretty common part of my life

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Speaker 2: since then.

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Speaker 1: One of the main inspirations behind starting this sprunning interview

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Speaker 1: show and the podcast post run High was based on

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Speaker 1: the fact that there's so many inspiring and successful people

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Speaker 1: that run. You guys live such busy lives. I love

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Speaker 1: knowing that you fit in time to go for a

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Speaker 1: run because I think it is so important to have

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Speaker 1: kind of that escape when you're living a super hectic

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Speaker 1: life to ground yourself.

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Speaker 2: It's also kind of like conquering your thoughts, right, It's

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Speaker 2: conquering like physical discomfort and in a like as an entrepreneur, right,

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Speaker 2: you're like trying to build this thing that you think

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Speaker 2: is going to have like this big impact on the world.

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Speaker 2: But if you can't control your own body, if you

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Speaker 2: can't control the way that you feel, there's like a

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Speaker 2: disconnect there, right, And I find being able to like

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Speaker 2: assert that level of sort of like discipline on your

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Speaker 2: body and say, even if it doesn't feel good, even

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Speaker 2: if it's one hundred and two degrees outside whatever, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to keep the discipline of doing this. And when

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Speaker 2: you get through doing a really hard physical thing kind

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Speaker 2: of puts the rest of the world in perspective.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: It's not to say that like problems outside of that

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Speaker 2: are easy, but it just gives you perspective on the world.

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Speaker 2: And I think about this in the context of being

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Speaker 2: an entrepreneur because one of the things that I would

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Speaker 2: think about is I had done really hard things in life,

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Speaker 2: like I had done this thing that felt insurmountable, being

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Speaker 2: overweight like I was, and losing all that weight like

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Speaker 2: I I was probably like how old was I when

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Speaker 2: I was overweight? Probably like fourteen fifteen, but.

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Speaker 1: Also an age that's very transformative for people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I hadn't really seen myself not overweight before

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Speaker 2: I did that. And to be able to do that

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Speaker 2: right and you're like, Okay, there's a different version of

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Speaker 2: me that's in there. It gives you the confidence to

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Speaker 2: say you can change things right, You can change circumstances

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Speaker 2: in your world, especially with the backdrop of like living

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Speaker 2: with a you know, not being in the shape that

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be in as a kid.

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Speaker 1: And you grew up as an only child, so it's

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Speaker 1: not like you had siblings around you that you know,

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Speaker 1: were showing you the ropes. Like you kind of had

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Speaker 1: to figure this all out on your own. Were your

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Speaker 1: parents in shape or like, was that a priority for

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Speaker 1: them or no?

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Speaker 2: My mom was always in really good shape. My dad

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Speaker 2: had some health problems when I was a kid, and

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Speaker 2: that was a big backdrop of my childhood too. It

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Speaker 2: was tough. Parts of it were really tough. My parents

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Speaker 2: were super loving, but you know, my dad had a

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Speaker 2: bunch of health problems when I was a kid, like

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Speaker 2: right after he came to the US, which was you know,

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Speaker 2: it makes you kind of we talked about mental toughness, right,

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Speaker 2: like growing up in those circumstances.

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Speaker 1: Do you mind sharing kind of like just to double

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Speaker 1: click into that, Like what types of health problems was

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Speaker 1: he struggling.

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Speaker 2: With his kidney's failed? Oh wow, yeah, like pretty much

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Speaker 2: right when it came to the US. So a little

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Speaker 2: bit of background. My family moved to the US from

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Speaker 2: India because my dad had always wanted to study physics.

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Speaker 2: He had this lifelong dream. He's like, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: come to the US to study physics, and lo and behold,

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Speaker 2: after I don't know, like ten years of wanting to

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Speaker 2: do this, he finally gets into an academic program University

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Speaker 2: of Huntsville, Alabama to study physics. So that's how my

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Speaker 2: family moved to the US, and my mom is pregnant

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Speaker 2: when she gets on the plane. My dad had to

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Speaker 2: actually stop that and get a job to pay for

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Speaker 2: the medical bills because his kidneys had failed. So this

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Speaker 2: was like this is my life when I was like

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Speaker 2: four or five years old.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's I haven't talked about this too much.

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Speaker 2: It's certainly not publicly, but it was a huge part

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Speaker 2: of my childhood. And so growing up my dad we

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Speaker 2: did a lot of science stuff together, right, It wasn't

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Speaker 2: he you know, there wasn't so much like, let's go

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Speaker 2: play football together. I'm sure my dad would have, but

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Speaker 2: he had some health problems and so I kind of

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Speaker 2: I feel like I kind of had to discover fitness

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Speaker 2: and working out on my own, and I've tried to

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Speaker 2: get them into it with some success.

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Speaker 1: That's good. Do your parents live now in California? You guys, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's awesome. So you grew up between Alabama and Virginia.

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Speaker 1: I love knowing that your dad came here because he

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Speaker 1: wanted to study physics. Yeah, he must love that you

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways followed in his footsteps at

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Speaker 1: least academically, right, and you went on to study physics

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Speaker 1: at Stanford.

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Speaker 2: My dad was very adamant when I was a kid.

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Speaker 2: He's like, look, I'm not going to tell you what

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Speaker 2: to do. It's like, just because I studied physics doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean that you should. Because he was like, well, my

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Speaker 2: grandfather in India, his dad was a medical doctor and

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Speaker 2: wanted all of his kids to be medical doctors. And

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Speaker 2: my dad always wanted to study physics. So he kind

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Speaker 2: of had grown up with this thing where he kind

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Speaker 2: of felt like he wanted to do something, but his

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Speaker 2: parents or his dad wanted him to be an eye doctor,

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Speaker 2: which is what they which is what my family was

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Speaker 2: in India. So he's like, you know, Biju, you have

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Speaker 2: to figure it out for yourself. I'm like, how is

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Speaker 2: this like the best way to convince me to do

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Speaker 2: physics because it's very effective. Yeah. And also, like I said,

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Speaker 2: growing up with my dad working at NASA, there's this

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Speaker 2: awe and wonder that you have for not only the

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Speaker 2: pursuit of like how does science and space work, but

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Speaker 2: the fantastical things that we build to study it.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: I remember seeing these huge wind tunnels. I grew up

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Speaker 2: around Langley Air Force Base, these huge wind tunnels, and

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Speaker 2: that was where my dad worked, right, He worked in

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Speaker 2: these buildings with computers where he had like he's doing

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Speaker 2: computer stuff when I was a kid, which in the nineties,

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Speaker 2: like you know, there weren't a lot of people that

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Speaker 2: are doing computer stuff and kind of you kind of

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Speaker 2: like look forward, and that's kind of what I thought

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do. And moreover, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you can tell this or not, but that like, I'm

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Speaker 2: starting to feel pretty good after that run. Yeah, a

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Speaker 2: couple of minutes, I was like, Ah.

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Speaker 1: It's either a post run rot or a post run high.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like you and I both experienced.

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Speaker 2: Both today, the highs and the lows of.

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Speaker 1: The highs and the lows of the run.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, was I saying, dad. Physics, Yeah really inspired me

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Speaker 2: to study physics. So I go on Stanford to study

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Speaker 2: physics and math, which is where I met my co

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Speaker 2: founder of robinhood Lad and we were actually roommates for

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Speaker 2: a while in college. We took a lot a lot

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Speaker 2: of the same classes together, and I think really had

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Speaker 2: a There's something very intoxicatingly cool about the pursuit of

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Speaker 2: how the universe works and the idea that you can

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Speaker 2: actually study something like that and it's not just stories, right,

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Speaker 2: there's an actual scientific discipline behind it, and that kind

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Speaker 2: of ties to what I'm doing now. So we haven't

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Speaker 2: talked about this yet, but this would be probably a

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Speaker 2: good time to talk about new company I'm starting called Etherfleux,

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Speaker 2: with a mission to deliver energy to planet Earth. So

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Speaker 2: what the heck does that mean? So we're building a

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Speaker 2: constellation of satellites that are going to take this idea

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Speaker 2: of space solar power and take it from this idea

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Speaker 2: that was originally like an Isaac Asimov story and then

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Speaker 2: very sci fi in its early days, of collecting solar

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Speaker 2: power in space and transmitting it around and taking it

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Speaker 2: from science fiction to science reality, and the idea that like,

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Speaker 2: there are these things that could exist right that people

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Speaker 2: have kind of thought systematically about but haven't been able

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Speaker 2: to make happen, and to take an understanding of physics

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Speaker 2: and technology to kind of breathe that into reality. That's

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Speaker 2: what I'm trying to do. And so what is this thing?

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Speaker 2: So the idea is that if you collect solar power

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Speaker 2: in space as opposed to on the surface of the Earth,

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Speaker 2: there's actually some really interesting benefits. Number One, it uses

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Speaker 2: way less land on the ground. Number Two, if you're

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Speaker 2: in the right orbits in space, you can actually have

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Speaker 2: access to solar power around the clock as opposed to

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Speaker 2: when the sun is out and space is abundant, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: you can put lots and lots of satellites in space

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Speaker 2: and get more and more solar power, whereas on Earth

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Speaker 2: you have to use land to do that. Right, And

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Speaker 2: kind of looking at where we are in the new

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Speaker 2: era that we're in right now, where for the first

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Speaker 2: time at least since in the last ten years, right,

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Speaker 2: we've kind of gone from the space race kind of

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Speaker 2: being over and we won, but we also kind of

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Speaker 2: lost because this is like society kind of gave up

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Speaker 2: on space as being like this frontier in the seventies

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Speaker 2: and eighties, and I would say even the nineties to

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Speaker 2: being at the forefront of what's happening again, and in

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Speaker 2: particular having access to these huge launch vehicles like Starship

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Speaker 2: are going to make building huge infrastructure in space something

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Speaker 2: that is actually going to happen in our lifetime. And

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Speaker 2: I think that this idea of building an energy infrastructure

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Speaker 2: in space, an energy grid like that we call it,

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Speaker 2: is going to be one of these novel applications to

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Speaker 2: space that makes life on Earth better. That's that's what

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Speaker 2: I'm doing.

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Speaker 1: What types of infrastructures outside of what you guys are building,

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Speaker 1: do you for see happening and being built in space?

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Speaker 1: Like do you have certain predictions that you think within

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Speaker 1: our lifetime we.

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Speaker 2: Will see within our lifetime is a really hard part,

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Speaker 2: but I think I do have some predictions. I think

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Speaker 2: things like asteroid mining or taking rare earth metals and

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Speaker 2: being able to bring them in from either from space

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Speaker 2: or places like the Moon. I think that is like

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Speaker 2: that is there's such an obvious use for that, in

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Speaker 2: my opinion. I think also manufacturing stuff on the Moon,

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Speaker 2: I think that is going to happen. It might not

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Speaker 2: happen in our lifetimes. It depends on how long we

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Speaker 2: live and kind of how fast that moves.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that would be like a value.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of the raw ingredients on the

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Speaker 2: Moon that are on the Earth as well for manufacturing stuff,

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Speaker 2: so rare earth metals are also there. Also, the idea

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Speaker 2: of building stuff there and launching it off the surface

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Speaker 2: of the Moon versus launching it off the surface of

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Speaker 2: the Earth is going to take way less energy because

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Speaker 2: the gravitational pull of the Moon is a lot weaker.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, it's kind of cool. I think this is

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Speaker 2: like one of the ideas of Obviously, space commercialization is

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Speaker 2: a topic that I think is super interesting, and I

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Speaker 2: think that the Moon is going to play a pretty

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Speaker 2: interesting part in that. Obviously, I think Mars is also

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Speaker 2: going to happen. I actually think that's going to happen

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Speaker 2: in our lifetime. But in terms of infrastructure, there's going

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Speaker 2: to be a whole civilization if we actually occupy Mars

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Speaker 2: that's going to be built there, and I think some

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Speaker 2: of these pieces will be used from there, but I

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Speaker 2: think it's going to be human civilization and like human

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Speaker 2: infrastructure that's adapted for life on Mars.

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Speaker 1: Well, I want to get in a little bit more

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Speaker 1: to what you're doing with your new company in a bit. First,

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Speaker 1: I want to take people kind of chronologically through what

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Speaker 1: you guys built with Robinhood. But I do have a

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Speaker 1: question on the topic of space that came to my mind,

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Speaker 1: and I don't want to forget to ask. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: come from a family with Indian parents that immigrated here

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Speaker 1: from India gets a deeply spiritual place, right, and people

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Speaker 1: there are very religious. So how does knowing how the

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Speaker 1: world works kind of affect your spirituality?

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Speaker 2: It kind of does, right, Because when I when I

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Speaker 2: first started studying physics, I I in this sort of

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Speaker 2: traditional way that we think about God as a being

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Speaker 2: with with thoughts that we as human beings can understand.

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Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't believe that that was like, I know,

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Speaker 2: there's there's a lot of people that believe that, but

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Speaker 2: that never really resonated with me because I always kind

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Speaker 2: of looked at it through the lens of like, what

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Speaker 2: do the laws of physics say? Right? And you kind

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Speaker 2: of when you see the laws of physics and you

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Speaker 2: see the equations and stuff, and these are imperfect, right,

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Speaker 2: these are approximations of what happened in the physical world,

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Speaker 2: but they look like they are I mean, they look

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Speaker 2: like a set of rules that were created, right, And

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Speaker 2: it just never really resonated to me that it was

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Speaker 2: like a person or a thing that thought in some way,

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Speaker 2: shape or form, like a like a human. I guess

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Speaker 2: another way of saying that is that in many ways

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Speaker 2: I kind of ascribe that sort of to the science,

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Speaker 2: to the physics of it. But this is kind of

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Speaker 2: the interesting thing. As time has gone by and I

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Speaker 2: think about it, I kind of flip flop on it,

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Speaker 2: and I think the place that I've landed is that

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Speaker 2: I don't know, and I don't think it's a question

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Speaker 2: I know how to answer, So I just don't think

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Speaker 2: about it that much. Because, on the other hand, if

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Speaker 2: you think about this and you say, well, the universe

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Speaker 2: is a bunch of equations, right, that's awfully thoughtful, and

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Speaker 2: it might kind of you're like, well, how did it

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Speaker 2: take on such a simple and elegant form? It almost

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Speaker 2: feels like somebody thought it through, And then you end

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Speaker 2: up at the opposite side of the whether there's a

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Speaker 2: god or not. Right, So I would say I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: I just had to ask because it is, you know,

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Speaker 1: it is interesting specifically like that role. Let's talk about

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Speaker 1: you getting to Stanford. Yeah, what made you want to

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Speaker 1: go to Stanford?

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Speaker 2: I had never been actually really, Yeah, so.

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Speaker 1: You accepted without going and visiting.

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Speaker 2: That's funny.

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Speaker 1: Did you visit any other schools?

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Speaker 2: I visited cal Tech?

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Speaker 1: Okay, how many schools did you apply to?

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Speaker 2: Applied to cal Tech, I applied to Stanford, applied to Harvard,

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Speaker 2: and I applied to MIT. I think those were the

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Speaker 2: four that I applied to and I didn't. I got

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Speaker 2: waitlisted at Harvard and Mit. Uh, and I think I

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Speaker 2: got into cal Tech and Stanford, and Stanford was the

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Speaker 2: one that was binding. So it was like, well, the

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Speaker 2: decision's kind of made for you, right, and I it

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Speaker 2: was the idea of moving out west, right growing up

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Speaker 2: in Virginia, like I wanted to I wanted to explore.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to see what California was like. Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: the decision was kind of made for me. And it

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Speaker 2: was cool because I applied to those four early and

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Speaker 2: I was like, well, if I don't get into any

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Speaker 2: of these, then I'm going to have to apply to

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Speaker 2: like a lot of schools. But luckily I got in

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Speaker 2: and I was like, I am done. Stanford is like

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Speaker 2: one of the top physics schools and math schools in

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Speaker 2: the US. When I went to Stanford, that was the

404
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Speaker 2: thing I cared about I wanted to study physics, physics, physics,

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Speaker 2: And it was one of those things where I kind

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Speaker 2: of thought that engineering or computer science or stuff like

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Speaker 2: that I could probably learn a little bit later in life,

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Speaker 2: but I kind of had I kind of put physics

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Speaker 2: on this pedestal where I wanted to learn it from

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Speaker 2: like the best people or the people that understood it

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Speaker 2: really deeply.

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Speaker 1: So, would you say academics when you were growing up

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Speaker 1: like elementary school in high school? Was that kind of

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Speaker 1: your sport? Like did you love your studies.

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Speaker 2: Much more when I got to high school? Yeah? It

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Speaker 2: was actually, I mean another part of this sort of

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Speaker 2: story of my dad being pretty sick, and I really

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Speaker 2: haven't talked about this very much before publicly, at least

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Speaker 2: when my dad was when I was in eighth grade,

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Speaker 2: my dad actually got really sick and was hospitalized for

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Speaker 2: a long time. And living through that was one of

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Speaker 2: the things that really woke up this sort of like

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Speaker 2: spirit animal inside of me where my dad was really sick,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, like, education is the one thing

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Speaker 2: that I can control my life, right, That's the one

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Speaker 2: thing that if I do a good job at it's

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Speaker 2: going to set my path forward. And it was the

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Speaker 2: one thing that my dad had always like been like education, education, education,

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Speaker 2: that's the way out. And so when I got to

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Speaker 2: high school, I kind of like flipped a switch and

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Speaker 2: I went from being a socio student to being super

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Speaker 2: fucking focused on academics. And yeah, again we talked a

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Speaker 2: lot about grit on the run, but it was a

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Speaker 2: pretty gritty childhood right between. Like, yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: I mean, getting into Stanford to study physics is no jokes.

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Speaker 1: So you have to lock in high school in order

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Speaker 1: to set yourself up like that. You know, we're talking

438
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 1: about your Stanford experience because that is kind of where

439
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 1: the not that where the sparks started for robinhood, but

440
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 1: where you and Vlad met. So let's talk a little

441
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: bit about your dynamic with Flad and kind of what

442
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,239
Speaker 1: it was about the two of you that worked so

443
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,199
Speaker 1: well together as a partnership.

444
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were great friends when we met in college.

445
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 2: We were We took a ton of the same classes together.

446
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 2: I'd say he was a little bit more into math

447
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 2: than physics when I met, and I think he really

448
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 2: inspired me to get into math too. But we would

449
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 2: take we take a lot of the same classes together.

450
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 2: We'd stay up super late working on problem sets together,

451
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 2: like most nights of the week for excited periods of time.

452
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,120
Speaker 1: What type of kid were you, Like, were you going

453
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: out in college or were you more studious?

454
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 2: Both?

455
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 1: Okay, I love that.

456
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 2: So you had a little bit of fun, Yeah, I

457
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 2: definitely fee.

458
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: Like I met my wife in college.

459
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 2: Come on, yeah, I had a lot of fun to college.

460
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 2: But again, like I had a very studious childhood leading

461
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,239
Speaker 2: up to it too. But we would take a lot

462
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 2: of the same classes together, we would do problem sets together,

463
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 2: we would work out together pretty regularly too, and over

464
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: the summers we would play a lot of chess together

465
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 2: in the evenings. I remember that. And we both had

466
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 2: a love of physics and math, and I think that

467
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 2: the friendship really started because when we met in college.

468
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 2: We both grew up in Virginia. We're both only children,

469
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: and our families both moved to the US because our

470
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 2: dads were pursuing higher education. So we kind of had

471
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 2: this like very interesting parallel and a lot of aspects

472
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:58,479
Speaker 2: of our life. And on top of that, right, like

473
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 2: when you kind of when you kind of meet an

474
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 2: only child and you're an only child, there's a there's

475
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 2: a kind of special bond that happens because you don't

476
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 2: have a lot of family. Right. For me, it was me,

477
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 2: my mom and my dad in the US, and you know,

478
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 2: like for him it was and he's got some cousins

479
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 2: and some more family, but you know, you still have

480
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 2: a small family that's kind of like your core nucleus.

481
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 2: And I say this because I feel like, at least

482
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 2: for me, it put the importance of friendship kind of

483
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 2: in a different place. Yeah, So we took a lot

484
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 2: of the same classes together, and we would stay up

485
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 2: pretty late working on problem sets together with lots of

486
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 2: through a lot of college. The interesting thing from that

487
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 2: was I think that we learn how to learn new

488
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 2: things together. And this is kind of the thing about entrepreneurship, right,

489
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: is that when you when when you start out doing

490
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 2: something as an entrepreneur, a lot of the times you're

491
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 2: approaching the problem as a novice, right, and you kind

492
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 2: of have to learn how to learn new things and

493
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 2: learn how to learn new things at a pretty healthy clip.

494
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 2: And I thought we had a really good dynamic learning

495
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 2: math and physics together in college that set us up

496
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 2: for like learning new topics together as we after we graduated,

497
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 2: we started a couple of companies. We started a few

498
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: companies in New York actually before we started Robinhood.

499
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: What would you say were the strengths that each of

500
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: you brought to the table as coworkers and co founders.

501
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there was a lot of dividing and

502
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: conquering in the early days, right, And there were there

503
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 2: were times where we were kind of like, I think

504
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: the thing that we would do is we would like,

505
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 2: if one of us was more passionate about a problem,

506
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 2: I feel like we'd kind of let the other person

507
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: run with that problem, and we kind of ended up

508
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 2: solving for a lot of building Robinhood, right, I was

509
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 2: focused on design, user experience, kind of telling the story

510
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 2: of how the product worked. And Vlad was spent a

511
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 2: lot of his time on and these are very broad

512
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 2: strokes right on engineering, on the finance side, and a

513
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 2: lot of the business stuff. And so we kind of

514
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 2: would each work on different parts of the company, and

515
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 2: there was this very fluid way of operating together where

516
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 2: if one person was more passionate about a problem, we'd

517
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 2: kind of let that person run with it.

518
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 1: As your relationship evolved, did you guys kind of always

519
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: know that you both had these entrepreneurial dreams and that

520
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: you wanted to start something together eventually, because I know

521
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: Vlad was a year younger than you write in college,

522
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: so you had graduated and then Vlad graduated the following year.

523
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: But you guys always stayed close friends and you always

524
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: kind of knew you wanted to start something together. How

525
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: did it all come to be?

526
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I said, I graduated a year ahead of him.

527
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: I got a job for a few months in finance,

528
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 2: and I remember Vlad was actually doing a PhD program

529
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 2: at UCLA, and I called him up and I asked

530
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 2: him if we want to start a company, And I

531
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 2: think says, we're both immigrant kids. There's something like very

532
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 2: entrepreneurial about being an immigrant kid, right where you kind

533
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 2: of like your whole life is kind of a startup

534
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: in some ways, and we like work together or those

535
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 2: first that first couple of summers, in those first couple

536
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 2: of years, and yeah, this sort of working relationship evolved

537
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: from that, like it transitioned from being students working on

538
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 2: problem sets together to students building stuff together. So that

539
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: makes sense.

540
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: And you guys graduated around two thousand and.

541
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 2: Eight year that was a big part of it.

542
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: Huge part of it right now, all of a sudden,

543
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like growing up in an immigrant household.

544
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: You also have a certain understanding of finances that I

545
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: think differs from other people, right, because it is this

546
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: idea of making it here. Yeah, and then to graduate

547
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 1: college at such a hard time financially where so many

548
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: people were probably were struggling to get jobs, right, and

549
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: so many people were losing their job YEA. What was

550
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: that like for you and how did it kind of

551
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: eventually lead to you, guys founding your first couple of

552
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 1: businesses before starting Robinhood.

553
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 2: I would say that that was the backdrop that actually

554
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: was pretty instrumental to Robinhood.

555
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: Pronos Research, right, there was a company before Kronos Splayers.

556
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Those were both like we were building technology for trading,

557
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 2: high frequency trading stuff like that. But kind of the

558
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 2: interesting thing was we were working on sort of computerized

559
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 2: trading technology. This is computerized trading technology now like ten

560
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: fifteen years ago. It probably feels ancient compared to the

561
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 2: stuff today, but markets had just gone electronic around that,

562
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: you know, the sort of five to ten years leading

563
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: up to it, that was like more of a cutting

564
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: edge thing at the time, and people were building sort

565
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: of networking hardware infrastructure and making it more and more

566
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 2: sort of low latency and fast, and getting it sort

567
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 2: of more and more sort of connected to the exchanges.

568
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 2: And we were working on the very like I would say,

569
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 2: rudimentary parts are sort of like the basic building blocks

570
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 2: of how you connect to the stock market, and I

571
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 2: feel like we had this like pretty clear view into

572
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: how that stuff worked. At the same time, there was

573
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: this backdrop of we talked about a little bit on

574
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: the way here of Occupy Wall Street, which from my perspective,

575
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 2: was the frustration of all the people that we went

576
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 2: to college with, right because we all entered the working

577
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: world in this two thousand and eight time period. A

578
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 2: lot of my friends went on to get PhDs because

579
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: they couldn't get jobs. Here were the two of us

580
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: were like without too much success to show for at

581
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: that point, several years of being an entrepreneur, where we

582
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 2: were like kind of struggling too. I feel like there

583
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: was a chorus of people that looked at the financial system.

584
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 2: I think that's also why the symbolism of that place

585
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: is so powerful. They're like, this thing doesn't work right,

586
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: this doesn't serve ordin people and maybe the thing to

587
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: do is to tear the whole thing down. Right. That

588
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: was kind of like the occupy part of Occupy Wall Street, right,

589
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: And I think from our perspective it was the immigrant

590
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 2: kid mentality of like this is it always seemed crazy

591
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 2: to me because you're like, no, this the financial system

592
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: in this country is actually the reason that so many

593
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: people want to be here. It's like this is the

594
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: land of opportunity. This is the place where you can

595
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: pull yourself up by your bootstrap. Right. It's rather than

596
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 2: trying to looking for a solution to this where you

597
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 2: tear the whole thing down, the other solution is is

598
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 2: that you just have way more people be a part

599
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: of it. And if the stock market is this thing

600
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 2: that's bifurcating outcomes between ordinary people, the haves and the

601
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: have nots, you can actually just have be way more

602
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: people be a part of the system. And the part

603
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: of the other part of this I'd kind of also

604
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 2: add is that from the perspective of being humans that

605
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: lived in the society, right, we wanted to do something

606
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 2: that we felt like was going to make We wanted

607
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 2: to do something that felt like we're going to have

608
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: a positive effect on things, right, And we didn't want

609
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,239
Speaker 2: to grow up in a world where there was this

610
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: constant course of negativity towards the financial system. And I

611
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: think the way that you get that is you have

612
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: more people that have a shared outcome in the outcomes

613
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: of the markets. So, like, what's the emergent phenomenon of this.

614
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,959
Speaker 2: I think that when we started doing it, there were

615
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: a lot of people that I mean, it's kind of

616
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 2: like the thing growing up, right, It's like not knowing

617
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: about your finances or like kind of being or not

618
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 2: not sort of focusing on it too much was in

619
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: vogue or it was kind of cool to be that way.

620
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 2: And I feel like we've I feel like that's completely

621
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: flipped where now if you're a young person and you

622
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 2: don't know what the hell you're doing with your finances,

623
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 2: like that's that's not cool.

624
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to be in control.

625
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: You got to know, right, And I think that's like

626
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: a societal shift that was super that we wanted to

627
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 2: help create.

628
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: Right. The tagline that we talked about, I said early

629
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: on when you were building Robinhood, was there a mantra

630
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: or ethos that always kept you going? And that was

631
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: the ethos of the brand and of Robinhood as a company,

632
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: which is democratizing finance for all. So can you break

633
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: that down for us what that meant to you guys

634
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: at the time when you started the business and how

635
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: it evolved over the years.

636
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were a few different versions of it. It

637
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 2: was at first it was democratized finance, you know, for

638
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 2: the world, and then some other variations of it, and

639
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 2: it landed on that very sort of like simplified version and.

640
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: It kind of stayed the same all the way through.

641
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: It still is that to today?

642
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah.

643
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: You know what I find interesting too is with Kronos Research,

644
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: you guys were building tools for financial institutions at a

645
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: high level, is that correct to say? And then you

646
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: guys go on and you see an imbalance and access

647
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: and then you decide to flip the model and build

648
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: something for the masses. But what is it like going

649
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: from you guys, are you know, full time working Chronos Research,

650
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden you have this idea

651
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: to build Robinhood. But it's completely different than what you

652
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: guys are doing for Kronos Research. So when you guys

653
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: had the idea to build Robinhood, were you doing both

654
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: at the same time while getting robin Hood on its feet.

655
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Kronos was kind of put on the

656
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: back burner. It was not, it was not. The trajectory

657
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 2: wasn't great.

658
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: Okay, what was life like for you guys at the

659
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: start of robin Hood?

660
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 2: We're broke? Good, dead broke?

661
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: And where were you? Were you in New York at

662
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: the time.

663
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: I was. I just moved back to California from New York.

664
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: So we lived in New York for a couple of

665
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: years and we just moved back.

666
00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: And shout out to your wife because she was with

667
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: you for this whole thing.

668
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Yeah, we actually my wife and I we

669
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: met in college and we got back together, broke up

670
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: a lot while, and we got back together actually, like

671
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 2: pretty few months before the sort of genesis of the

672
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: robin Hood idea. Yeah, those were pretty tough times. We

673
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 2: pitched a lot of investors. There was not a lot

674
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: of interest in what we were doing. There was this

675
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 2: idea of like, are young people ever going to invest

676
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 2: and like are people ever going to do this on

677
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 2: their mobile phones? And we're like yes, and yes, I

678
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 2: think these are kind of inevitable and lo and behold.

679
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: Here we are, right, you have to be a little

680
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: bit delusional to start a business, right, Yes, this is

681
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,720
Speaker 1: my favorite thing that founders say, especially when you're getting

682
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: hundreds of no's from investors. So what kept you guys going?

683
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: And you know, let's maybe give advice to founders out

684
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: there that keep hearing those aren't getting the answers that

685
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: they want, but they have this idea. They really believe

686
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: in it. Like what would you say to them?

687
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 2: You have to believe in yourself. Like, I think that's

688
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: the biggest thing, is like the world is not going

689
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 2: to believe in you. It is on you to make

690
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 2: the world believe in you. And I think that's a

691
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 2: really really big deal because we live in a world

692
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 2: where so many people especially in the like the social

693
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 2: media era, which continues to be like the dominant thing

694
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: in how humans interact. Now there's this like there's like

695
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 2: there's mirrors all around you, right, there's there's other people's

696
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: perspectives on what you're doing, and.

697
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: Made by Mark is on the street. He's asking you

698
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 1: what you do to work out?

699
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that happened today, right, Like it's all around

700
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 2: it and it's kind of the dividing line of like

701
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: where does that stop and where do your own ideas begin?

702
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 2: And you have to believe in your own ideas because

703
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 2: if you don't, they're like no one's going to believe

704
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: in them more than you do. I think that's one

705
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 2: of the big ones. I think the other one is

706
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 2: dreaming big versus dreaming small. I mean, these are like

707
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 2: very pithy things to say, but I feel like when

708
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: you kind of see all the different variations of them,

709
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 2: you kind of land at these kinds of like simple truths.

710
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: And I think it's like on that note too, it's

711
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: dreaming big and also knowing how to work small, right,

712
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: because it's like you have this big picture, and then

713
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: it's as a founder, you have to be willing to

714
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: put in the work.

715
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: You have to work your ass off, you have to

716
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: outwork and outwork and outwork and outwork. But yeah, then

717
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 2: I think maybe that's the third one, right, But the

718
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: second one is dreaming big versus dreaming small, where if

719
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: you dream big, there's a chance that you might make

720
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 2: it happen, right, if you dream small, there's a chance

721
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 2: you might make it happen. But like, your outcomes are

722
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 2: like whatever your scale of ambition is like whatever the

723
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: thing that you're dreaming to do, if you're not dreaming big,

724
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 2: it's not going to happen, right, Like, if you're not

725
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 2: dreaming big, you're not going to have a big, crazy

726
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: outcome dreaming small. So if you're dreaming small, like you

727
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 2: should think about dreaming bigger because if you dream small,

728
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: your outcomes are not going to be huge. And also

729
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 2: I think there's something else here, which is that dreaming

730
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 2: really big and working on something really difficult versus working

731
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 2: on something where I don't want to say it's easy,

732
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: but like you can kind of see the next step,

733
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 2: next step, next step. Starting companies are hard, period, right,

734
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 2: And like these kinds of companies are hard, and the

735
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 2: really big dreaming ones are hard to they're just different

736
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 2: kinds of hard. So it's not like it's not it's

737
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 2: not going to be easier, right.

738
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 1: What was it like getting those from investors that are

739
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: in the industry? Like was it disheartening at times and

740
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: so frustrating? Yeah? What was like the worst know that

741
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: you got that you were so excited to prove wrong?

742
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: Like do you kind of have a story around that?

743
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: I mean I think all of them, right, Yeah, I

744
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 2: think this is one of the things that a lot

745
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 2: of successful people have. It's kind of like you have

746
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: to channel the setbacks and negativity into just like I'm

747
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: going to do it right. You have to like look

748
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 2: at that stuff and be like, this is fuel for

749
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 2: the fire. Yeah. So, I mean there were a lot

750
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 2: of no's. There are a lot of skeptics in the

751
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 2: early days, and I think it was there was a

752
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 2: lot of stuff, right, but it was a lot of

753
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 2: like the things that were in vogue then, which we're

754
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 2: building consumer apps and you know, like photo sharing stuff

755
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 2: like that when we were getting started with Robin Hood.

756
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 2: You know.

757
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: I think it's a testament to this this show and

758
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: the running interview show into post ran high, it's all

759
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 1: about movement and the power of just continuing to keep going.

760
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.

761
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting how obviously there's physical movement

762
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: like the run we just did, but I think what's

763
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: so powerful about these types of conversation is movement translates

764
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: in so many different aspects of life, and I think

765
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: what you guys have built is such a testament of

766
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: the power of just putting your head down and keep

767
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 1: working and keep going.

768
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. And on the topic of like movement specifically. It actually,

769
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 2: I think has always been a yin and yang with

770
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 2: building companies for me because I would do this pretty

771
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: often through all of building robinhood and around lunchtime, I'd

772
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: go either to the gym or go for a run.

773
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 2: And my running route was to go around Stanford campus,

774
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 2: like campus sloop at Stanford. That was have you done

775
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 2: that before?

776
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: No, when I wanted to ask you when we were

777
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 1: talking about Stanford and the fact that you ran in college,

778
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: that I wanted to ask you what your route was.

779
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. Two routes. Two routes that were very common. First

780
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 2: one is campus sloop and you actually will see me

781
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 2: doing that sometimes like you might just run into me

782
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 2: on the streets sometimes running campus sloop. My office is

783
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 2: the eighth or flux office is a little bit further now,

784
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: so it's not like literally right there, but that was

785
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: a very common one. The other one is it's called

786
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 2: this loop called the Dish. There's like a big observatory

787
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 2: dish on campus and it's kind of in the hills

788
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 2: behind campus. You have tons of ups and downs. That

789
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: one's way harder, so I do. I would do Campus

790
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 2: loop most of the time, and sometimes when I was

791
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 2: feeling really fit, I would do the dish loop.

792
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you wanted to challenge yourself. Campus loop seems

793
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: more up my alley.

794
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're both like three to four miles if I

795
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: remember correctly, kind of in that range.

796
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: I've never been to Stanford's campus, but I've always wanted

797
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: to go. I had some friends growing up, some lacrossemate

798
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: friends that went on to play there. The hair is down,

799
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: the hair is down. We went into this and you

800
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: were like, the hair is going to be up, the

801
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: hair is going to be down. We're going to mix

802
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: it up.

803
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. I love the man bun though, Oh, it'll

804
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 2: probably come back.

805
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: Robinhood had years of rocket ship growth and then in

806
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen you kind of gave the reins to Vlad

807
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: to operate as the CEO. What made you decide to

808
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: have Lad be that kind of forward facing position at

809
00:40:58,840 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 1: the company.

810
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, end of twenty twenty, actually, oh, twenty twenty. Yeah,

811
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 2: we talked about it several times over the years before,

812
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: and there was a part of it where, I mean,

813
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 2: there were a lot of different factors, right, There was

814
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 2: a part of it where I didn't necessarily want to

815
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 2: be I didn't really necessarily want to spend that energy

816
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 2: on being a public company CEO because that comes with

817
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: a different set of responsibilities, and it was something that Yeah,

818
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 2: I think Vlada was very passionate about as well, and

819
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 2: I think that's yeah. I mean there were a lot

820
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 2: of different things, right. I think I had my starting

821
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 2: family around that time, and I kind of wanted to

822
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 2: think about what the next chapter of life was going

823
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 2: to be, and I didn't know what it was going

824
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 2: to be at the time. And also a lot of

825
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 2: that was like during the COVID era, where which I

826
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 2: think was like a huge period of change for a

827
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 2: lot of different people. And there was a part of

828
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 2: me that was curious about eventually being an entrepreneur again someday, right,

829
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: And I didn't know how or when that was going

830
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 2: to happen, but it was like kind of this thought

831
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 2: that was in the back of my head. And I'd

832
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 2: always been pretty keenly interested in the space industry.

833
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it makes sense your dad worked at NASA.

834
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. The other the thing that was that sort of

835
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: made me realize that at some point in my life

836
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 2: I wanted to work on the space industry was seeing

837
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 2: the Falcon launch and landing right Like that was a

838
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 2: moment where I was like, holy cow, this might actually

839
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: happen in my adult lifetime, Like the Space Race might

840
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,959
Speaker 2: come back in my adult lifetime. And I didn't really

841
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 2: know how or why if that was ever going to

842
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 2: be something I wanted to do, but it was this

843
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 2: sort of thing that I was like, Man, I really

844
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 2: really would be interested in doing that someday.

845
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: Did you take any time off in between launching your

846
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,720
Speaker 1: company now and robin Hood?

847
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,959
Speaker 2: Not very much? Well, yeah, not very much.

848
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:02,959
Speaker 1: So you kind of went right back into building something

849
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: from the ground up.

850
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: Yeah I did. Yeah, that's so almost almost none.

851
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: What do you think is your favorite part about starting companies? Like?

852
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: Do I feel like a lot of the founders that

853
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 1: I talked to love the early stage.

854
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, the early stage is unquestionably fun. It's unquestioned by

855
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 2: my favorite part. There's a lot of really fun parts.

856
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 2: I think small teams are very fun. I think teams

857
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: like twenty thirty forty to fifty one hundred, one hundred

858
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 2: and fifty two hundred people like, they're really really fun

859
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,760
Speaker 2: because it feels like a tribe of people where everybody

860
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 2: knows everybody else, right, which definitely changes when you get

861
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: to much bigger size, when you get to thousands of people.

862
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 2: But I would say that's not the main thing. I

863
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: think the main thing is the journey of figuring something

864
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 2: out right, the journey of like not knowing how to

865
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 2: do something, being and being of the mindset that I

866
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 2: really really want to figure out how to do this thing,

867
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 2: and right now out what that is is. I really

868
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 2: want to figure out how to build this constellation of satellites.

869
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: I want to get really good at understanding how to

870
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 2: do the manufacturing of stuff like this at scale. I

871
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: want to really demonstrate that, like the technology behind this

872
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 2: and our ideas, the physics and the lasers and all

873
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 2: these things work. And it's the not knowing and not

874
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: knowing if you will figure it out, that's the really

875
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 2: fun part, right because the unknown.

876
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's stressed me out a little bit, but yeah

877
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: it is.

878
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 2: But when you get to the other side, if you

879
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 2: get to the other side, there's a sense of accomplishment

880
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 2: and the sense of like kind of conquering the intellectual space,

881
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 2: which is kind of you know, it's going to be

882
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 2: that high that I'm chasing, like over and over.

883
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 1: Again, what stage are you guys at right now.

884
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 2: We're getting ready to start assembling and manufacturing a lot

885
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 2: of the stuff for our satellite. So we have so

886
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 2: the idea of space lear Power. We talked about it

887
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 2: a little bit before, and we're actually putting two satellites

888
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 2: up next year, so it'll be about two years and

889
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 2: a half a little less since I left Robinhood full time.

890
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: That will have knock on wood, our first satellites going

891
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 2: up to space. First one is targeted for middle of

892
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 2: next year. The second one you know, targeting towards the

893
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 2: end of next year. And what that's going to do.

894
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 2: So we have to actually build the satellite, So that's

895
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: the next step that's coming up. A lot of the

896
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: work up until now has been kind of getting all

897
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: the pieces in place, sort of designing the hardware, buying

898
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 2: all the components, getting the launch sort of stuff figured out,

899
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 2: working with regulators, spending time in DC, sort of putting

900
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 2: all the foundational pieces and understanding what all the foundational

901
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: pieces are to build a space company because I don't

902
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 2: necessarily know how to do this right.

903
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're really starting from scratch. But what I think

904
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: is so cool though, is with Robinhood, correct me if

905
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, but you didn't really use your physics degree

906
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: with Robinhood, right, really? No, So I mean I think

907
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: what's so cool about what you guys are doing now

908
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: is you're able to really put what you studied to work.

909
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 2: In some ways. Yeah, I mean it's it's definitely a

910
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 2: physics problem in many ways, the actual sub fields that

911
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: are going to building what we're doing. I didn't necessarily

912
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 2: spend a bunch of time studying those in school, Like

913
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 2: I didn't study optics and I didn't take like a

914
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: bunch of optics classes, but that is a huge part

915
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 2: of what we're doing now, or material science. It's a

916
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 2: big part of what we're doing now and to be

917
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 2: bigger part of what we do in the future. Like

918
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 2: I I studied more like math and theoretical physics, So

919
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 2: it's kind of cool to learn that stuff.

920
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: When Robinhood iPod and it was in twenty twenty one, correct, Yeah,

921
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: what was that day like for you when Robinhood iPod?

922
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: Like what are the emotions going on with you in

923
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: that day? Like are you so excited?

924
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:01,359
Speaker 2: Is it?

925
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: You know? Like what is that next chapter?

926
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 2: Kind of feel like weirdly enough, I don't think I

927
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 2: had that many emotions that day because I feel like

928
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,919
Speaker 2: I'd kind of just run through all of them leading

929
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 2: up to that day. And also it's it's this thing where,

930
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: you know, we we founded the company, and kind of

931
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 2: it was you know, it was our accomplishment, but it

932
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 2: was also at that point there were thousands of people

933
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: that did it with us, right, and it was a

934
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 2: huge accomplishment for all those people too. So I would

935
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 2: say that's one of the parts that kind of stuck

936
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 2: with me, was like the chorus of people around me

937
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: that were like, holy cow, we actually did this in

938
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 2: the face of huge adversity, I would say, because covid

939
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 2: was very challenging for us, and all the time after

940
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: that was hugely challenging too.

941
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: People say Robin hood gamified investing, making investing too easy,

942
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 1: fun and addicting. So how did you guys think about

943
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: user experience versus user responsibility when designing the platform?

944
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so a couple of things there. The biggest thing

945
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 2: that I think we did was we spent a ton

946
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: of time talking to customers and that was like one

947
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 2: of the core mantras behind the company. And what does

948
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 2: that mean? We would actually interview customers like we had

949
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 2: this huge practice of going out and meeting customers and

950
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 2: actually interviewing them and you know you can. We would

951
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 2: do this thing from the beginning of the company, and

952
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 2: we kind of figured out that if you're trying to

953
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 2: build financial products, you kind of have to have really

954
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 2: deep intuition for how people live their actual lives with money, right,

955
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 2: and the way that people think about and manage their

956
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,760
Speaker 2: own money. It's a very personal thing, and when people

957
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 2: talk about it a lot of times in society or

958
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 2: with their friends and stuff like that, it's not the

959
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: version of it that's going on in their own heads.

960
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 2: And so we actually we would spend a ton of

961
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: time going to places like Stanford campus and just like

962
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 2: giving students fifty bucks for example, and be like, hey,

963
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 2: can you sit down and like look at our product,

964
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 2: read through it, explain how it would fit into your life,

965
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 2: and like why would you use this or why would

966
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 2: you not use this? And you start to hear the

967
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 2: stories of how people think about their finances and how

968
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 2: they think about money and how they think about budgeting stuff,

969
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 2: and you just completely would miss that if you're like, well,

970
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 2: this is how I think about it, and everybody else

971
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: should think about it the way that I should think

972
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 2: about it.

973
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: When I had Alex Lieberman on recently, he's the founder

974
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: of the Morning Brew, and he sold the Morning Brew

975
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: a few years ago, but now he's like a big

976
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: content creator and we were talking about the creator economy

977
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: and how a lot of creators and people in the

978
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: space are starting businesses and it's important to know your

979
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: audience when you're starting a business, and he was saying, like,

980
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: the easiest thing that you can do is literally like

981
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: put up on your story schedule time with me to talk.

982
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: Here's my calendly link, and let's find out kind of

983
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: like what you're liking about my content, what you want

984
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 1: to see more of, and really, you know, talk to

985
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,359
Speaker 1: your users. And I feel like it is it's such

986
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,959
Speaker 1: good advice for people out there building businesses, like really

987
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: talk to your consumers because you can learn so much

988
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: from them.

989
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, because we want to make something that

990
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 2: people will use. And the backdrop of what what we

991
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 2: created with Robinhood was that young people didn't invest in

992
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 2: the stock market, right, and so we're like, why what

993
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 2: about this is like not useful for young people that

994
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 2: we only see this phenomenon of investing before Robinhood. I

995
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 2: think it was much more an activity that was around retirement, right,

996
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 2: sort of plus or minus five or ten years of

997
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 2: retirement is when people really started thinking about like what

998
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 2: am I? How am I thinking about my finances? And

999
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 2: we're like, well, if you want to think about that, like,

1000
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 2: why not start thinking about that at a much earlier

1001
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 2: point in your career because if you do, you'll have

1002
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 2: that many more years where you're like saving money, putting

1003
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 2: money aside, you know, getting some exposure to the stock market,

1004
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera.

1005
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 1: I just wanted to say, like robin Hood has what's

1006
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,240
Speaker 1: so cool about the platform is exactly what you just said,

1007
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: Where now I have in automatic investments every single day

1008
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: and it's cool knowing, you know, as somebody that is

1009
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:36,919
Speaker 1: in an in traditional finance job, and when I first

1010
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: graduated college, I would have had no idea like what

1011
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: to do with my money, and Robinhood does make it

1012
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: really easy.

1013
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's it's stuff like this that we built,

1014
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:48,320
Speaker 2: like just you know, recurring investments or fractional share investing,

1015
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: where I feel like those are the kinds of products

1016
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: that meet people very much where they are. And if

1017
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 2: you ask the question like, why haven't people done this?

1018
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 2: A lot of the times is that they don't know

1019
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 2: or they don't know how much money they need to

1020
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:02,359
Speaker 2: do it, but they feel like they have to have

1021
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 2: a lot saved up and kind of making it so

1022
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 2: that you can get started without some of those some

1023
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 2: of those barriers was you're not going to figure out

1024
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,919
Speaker 2: how to do that unless you actually hear people talk

1025
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 2: about it. And as you as we built a company

1026
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 2: to be bigger, I thought that this took on an

1027
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 2: even more important light because if you have a bunch

1028
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 2: of silicon value people working on building financial products, and

1029
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 2: they're kind of well paid engineers for example, right, their

1030
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,879
Speaker 2: experience of the financial markets might be pretty different than

1031
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:37,439
Speaker 2: somebody that's working paycheck to paycheck, right, And you really

1032
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,359
Speaker 2: want to get that perspective. You want to understand it

1033
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 2: so you can build products for all those kinds of people. Yeah,

1034
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 2: and so we not only realize that that was such

1035
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 2: an important part when we were building the first few products,

1036
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 2: but we realized that actually institutionalizing that at the company

1037
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 2: was a big deal too.

1038
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: With your new company, Atherflux, are there certain things that

1039
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: you have been implementing that you kind of learned through

1040
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 1: mistakes you guys made at Robinhood maybe with like building

1041
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: a company that now you know. I think this is

1042
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: good for people to learn because you learn so much

1043
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: by doing and you have to make certain mistakes to

1044
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: not make them again.

1045
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 2: At least in the early days of Robin did I remember,

1046
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: it took us kind of a long time to get

1047
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 2: to a critical massive engineers at the company. We had

1048
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 2: an engineering team, but it was during a time where

1049
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 2: there was so much competition for engineers that our engineering

1050
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 2: and recruiting was like this constant bottleneck for what we're

1051
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 2: trying to do. And I think this time around we

1052
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:40,879
Speaker 2: kind of just decided to well, I mean I think

1053
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 2: this time around with ether Flex, we've kind of scaled

1054
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 2: the engineering effort up pretty quickly in year one, and

1055
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the things that again it's

1056
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: kind of hard to look for specific examples because one is.

1057
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 1: No, but that's a good example hiring the right.

1058
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 2: People, yeah, right, scaling engineering hiring a little bit more

1059
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 2: sort of like aggressively in year one and year two.

1060
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 2: It's something that we're doing this time around and remains

1061
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 2: to be seen kind of how it plays out, but

1062
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 2: that's one of the things where I'm like kind of

1063
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 2: seeing a difference in the way that it played out

1064
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 2: over the first couple of years, because Robin was always

1065
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 2: very small until we got big, and then we got big.

1066
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:20,280
Speaker 2: I'm talking in terms of people.

1067
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: How big is Robinhood now, like how many people work

1068
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: at the company?

1069
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 2: Thousands of people?

1070
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: Wow? And how big is Atherflex We're about twenty five people?

1071
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 2: Oh?

1072
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: Wow?

1073
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 2: Is that wild? Yeah?

1074
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's great. Yeah, you're not working with

1075
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: lot anymore.

1076
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 2: I still serve on the board of directors of Robin Hood, but.

1077
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: He's not involved with this next business.

1078
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 2: He's an angel best director.

1079
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: Okay, that's great.

1080
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, so actually that yeah, that's actually the reason I'm

1081
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 2: here is for Robin at board meeting.

1082
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: Ah, I didn't realize that. What do you think is

1083
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: one thing people often get wrong when they hear space

1084
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: solar power, that it's that far out. Really, how far

1085
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: out is it?

1086
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 2: I think we're gonna I mean, we're trying to demonstrate

1087
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 2: it next year, right, and we want to build a

1088
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 2: constellation of these things in the next five years, Like

1089
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 2: we want our vision for this thing is that there

1090
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 2: will actually be an energy grid and orbit where in

1091
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 2: the same way that you well, not in the same way,

1092
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 2: but like kind of analogous to how you can connect

1093
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 2: to starlink or if you have a starlink terminal, you

1094
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 2: can get Internet almost everywhere in the world because you

1095
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 2: just connect to a satellite and it sends you down

1096
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 2: the Internet. We want to do that with power right

1097
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 2: where there's like a floating infrastructure of power available all

1098
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 2: around the world and if you have one of the

1099
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 2: receivers to be able to receive the power, that you

1100
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 2: can instantly or nearly instantly, be able to start generating

1101
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 2: power on the ground. Which seems like a pretty fantastical idea,

1102
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 2: but I think there's it's actually the approach that we're taking.

1103
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 2: We're going to be able to show the real parts

1104
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 2: of it in the next two to three years. I

1105
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 2: say this because space solar power is an idea that's

1106
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 2: been since the nineteen seventies and it's been relegated to

1107
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 2: like the realm of research papers and simulations, and it

1108
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 2: hasn't taken on a physical format, and so I think

1109
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 2: that's the thing that we want to really demonstrate not

1110
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 2: only is this possible, but it's possible with today's technology.

1111
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: So you're the first company that's trying to tackle this.

1112
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 2: There are a few others that are doing it right now.

1113
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 2: Oh well, yeah, there's been a little renaissance in it,

1114
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,839
Speaker 2: but we aim to be the one that's break around

1115
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 2: on this.

1116
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: You've talked about how this could advance America's energy independence

1117
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: and global leadership, right, That's been kind of one of

1118
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 1: the things that I was reading about what could success

1119
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 1: look like for Atherflex, not just like for the company,

1120
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: but for the country.

1121
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 2: Well, I think the core ideas around like commercialization of

1122
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 2: space and making the technology of space available in the

1123
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 2: sort of Western way right where I think that there's

1124
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:00,359
Speaker 2: something very like what's the word I'm looking looking for,

1125
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 2: like almost like for all with the way that you

1126
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 2: get access to Internet from things like starlink right or

1127
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,919
Speaker 2: starlink specifically, it's kind of it's it's the service that's

1128
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 2: available to everyone with very little sort of like infrastructure.

1129
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 2: You know, it's relatively inexpensive, And there's kind of that

1130
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 2: idea of like if you believe that space solar power

1131
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 2: is going to be one of these energy sources that

1132
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 2: plays a bigger and bigger role in human society for

1133
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 2: the next twenty thirty years. We want America and our

1134
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 2: infrastructure to be the one that kind of like is

1135
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 2: the default version of this right, so that it is

1136
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 2: available to people around the world, and it is something

1137
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 2: that is sort of ubiquitous and available and that just

1138
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 2: generally helps people get access to energy, because access to

1139
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 2: energy is the thing that drives economic progress. Like it's

1140
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 2: like one of the found national elements that drives economic progress.

1141
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 2: So said differently, I think the power of what we're

1142
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 2: trying to do is in the fact that it's bringing

1143
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 2: capitalism to this other use case in space, which I

1144
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 2: think is like a very American way of thinking about things, right,

1145
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 2: is that if you bring capitalism and the pursuit of

1146
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 2: one's own self betterment and the economic sort of like

1147
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 2: incentives around that to a field, that you'll actually see

1148
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 2: a really rapid evolution, you'll see a rapid maturation. And

1149
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 2: we kind of live that with Robinhood, right, because that

1150
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 2: product gives the power of capitalism to the masses, and

1151
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 2: the magnitude of change it created was pretty quick and

1152
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 2: and sort of like the financial time.

1153
00:58:49,280 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: Skial eighth flex is a mouthful. What does the word mean?

1154
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it comes it actually comes from the ether theory.

1155
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 2: Are you familiar with this? No? All right, So this

1156
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 2: is a this is a theory in the nineteenth century,

1157
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 2: So the eighteen hundreds of how light works? Right, because

1158
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 2: like light was one of the most fascinating things in

1159
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 2: the universe because it has a lot of special rules

1160
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 2: that apply to it that don't really apply to anything else. Wait,

1161
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 2: like what again? This might lead you to really questioning, Like,

1162
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 2: one way of looking at this is like, there's definitely God.

1163
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 2: The other way of looking at this is that there's

1164
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 2: definitely not God. So you get to.

1165
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: Pick This is why I had to ask you the

1166
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 1: question about spirituality.

1167
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, the answer to that question is is a strong unsure.

1168
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about light.

1169
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 2: Yeah about light? Okay, So eighth flex where does his

1170
00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 2: name come from? So it comes from this thing called

1171
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 2: the ether theory, which was in the nineteenth century. Nineteenth century,

1172
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds, there was a question of like how does

1173
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 2: light work? And there was this idea that light is

1174
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 2: a wave, right, And if it's a wave, much like

1175
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 2: a sound wave, it's got to travel through something. It's

1176
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 2: got to make something wave, right, and so sound waves

1177
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 2: travel through air. That's how you hear it. That's why

1178
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 2: there's no sound in space, right, or waves on the

1179
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 2: surface of water, like they travel on the surface of

1180
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 2: the water, right, And that's the medium. The water is

1181
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 2: the medium that it's going through. Sound waves air is

1182
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 2: the medium that is going through. So if light is

1183
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 2: a wave, which it has a wave length looks an

1184
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 2: awful lot like a wave, what's the medium that it's

1185
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 2: going through. And we're like, well, we're not sure what

1186
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 2: it is, so let's call it the ether. So there

1187
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 2: is this theory called the ether theory where people are

1188
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 2: trying to figure out how light moves through this medium.

1189
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 2: And so one of the questions was what is the

1190
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 2: speed of light? So there's this famous experiment done at

1191
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 2: this actually the United States, called the Michaelson Morley experiment,

1192
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 2: which aim to understand the speed of light. And here's

1193
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 2: the kind of simple version of it is, you have

1194
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 2: a light source, you have a mirror that splits it,

1195
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 2: and it goes in this direction, it goes in that direction,

1196
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 2: and it bounces back towards the center thing. And you

1197
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 2: basically ask if this thing is on the surface of

1198
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 2: the Earth and the Earth is rotating, it's rotating around

1199
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 2: the sun. Sun is moving in the solar system, right,

1200
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 2: you would imagine that light is going a slightly faster

1201
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 2: speed in one of these two directions, right, Because it's

1202
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 2: kind of like if you are on a moving train

1203
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 2: going one hundred miles an hour and you throw a

1204
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 2: ball in the direction of the train. If you're looking

1205
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 2: at that ball from the ground and you throw it

1206
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 2: ten miles an hour, you're going to see it going

1207
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 2: by it one hundred and ten miles an hour, right,

1208
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 2: because it's the speed of the train plus the speed

1209
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 2: that you threw the thing. Kind Of the same concept here.

1210
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 2: If the Earth is rotating and all these other things

1211
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 2: are moving, the speed of light will be the speed

1212
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 2: of light plus whatever the moving surface is moving at.

1213
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 2: So they do this experiment in the eighteen hundreds, and

1214
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 2: it was like the eighteen seventies, and it turns out

1215
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 2: it's the exact same speed in both directions, and they're

1216
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 2: just like, what the fuck, Like, what's going on here? Right,

1217
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 2: because there's something funky going on here, because it shouldn't

1218
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 2: be the same in both directions. And so there was

1219
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 2: like thirty years or fifty years or like decades where

1220
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 2: the scientific community like collectively was like, how does this

1221
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 2: like what is going on here? And there were all

1222
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 2: these different explanations of how the speed of light could

1223
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 2: be the constant could be the same in both of

1224
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 2: those different directions that had to do with like, well,

1225
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 2: maybe it's something interesting about the medium that light is

1226
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 2: traveling through. Maybe there's something about the ether medium where

1227
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 2: it's actually like, you know, getting pushed around by the

1228
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 2: Earth's movement, and all these other hypotheses. And then Einstein

1229
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 2: comes around and he's like, all y'all are wrong. He's like, actually,

1230
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:22,960
Speaker 2: the speed of light is constant in every reference frame.

1231
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 2: And it's not the speed of light that changes, but

1232
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:30,960
Speaker 2: it's literally time and space that distort to be able

1233
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 2: to keep the speed of light constant in all reference frames.

1234
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 2: So this is like the special theory of relativity. This is, like,

1235
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 2: I one of Einstein's many big breakthroughs, but I think

1236
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 2: was kind of his first one, which was explaining that

1237
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 2: the speed of light is constant in every reference frame.

1238
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 2: So if you've ever heard of the theory of relativity,

1239
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 2: this is kind of like the core idea behind the

1240
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 2: theory of relativity. Coming back to ether, it's this fictitious medium.

1241
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 2: It doesn't like there's no such thing as the ether,

1242
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 2: and colloquially that's kind of where it comes from, like

1243
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 2: pulling something from the ether, right, And so ether flux

1244
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 2: is kind of like the energy moving through the ether.

1245
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 2: So it's literally like harvesting energy from the fictitious medium.

1246
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 1: Physics blows my mind. What do you have to say

1247
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 1: to the students right now in physics maybe that are

1248
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 1: setting physics like you did in college, that are having

1249
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 1: a hard time with it because I feel like the

1250
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 1: thing with physics is there's just so much to learn.

1251
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 2: There is and there isn't because it really comes down

1252
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 2: to like a couple of equations at the end of

1253
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 2: the day. There is an idea that there is a

1254
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 2: theory of everything, and if that's the case, like that

1255
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 2: that theory, like it's not going to be like a book.

1256
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 2: It's going to be like a set of equations. So

1257
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 2: you really don't have to know a lot of stuff,

1258
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 2: which is kind of the wild part, but understanding it

1259
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 2: really deeply opens the cornucopia of like things that you

1260
01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 2: could do with it.

1261
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 1: It must be incredible to think about the impact that

1262
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 1: you've had on so many people on the industry in general,

1263
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 1: and you know what you're continuing to do is pretty incredible.

1264
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 1: If you could go back and give yourself one piece

1265
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:13,919
Speaker 1: of advice in your twenties or late teens, what would

1266
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 1: it be.

1267
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 2: I think it's probably like it's actually the same thing

1268
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 2: I've said like two times already, or it's believe in

1269
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 2: yourself and have confidence your own ideas. You're not always

1270
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 2: going to be right, but you can always keep trying right.

1271
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 2: And I think as an entrepreneur, like this sort of

1272
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 2: self doubt of like is this the right thing? Is

1273
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 2: this going to work?

1274
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:36,920
Speaker 1: Like?

1275
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 2: W how do I figure out if this is going

1276
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 2: to work or not? Especially when we didn't have am

1277
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 2: to show for it. That was a big part of

1278
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 2: it for me, right, Like there's a lot of self

1279
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 2: doubt of like is this actually going to work? Like

1280
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 2: what are we thinking about the right parts of this problem?

1281
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 2: Like should we be thinking about these other things? And

1282
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 2: all those are super valid concerns, but you have to

1283
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 2: believe in yourself to make these things happen, and I

1284
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 2: think we very much did. But I would just like

1285
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 2: put an exclamation point on that.

1286
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so important. I mean I completely agree. I

1287
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 1: think in whatever you're doing, if you don't believe in

1288
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:11,959
Speaker 1: your Like the believing in yourself is the first place

1289
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:13,680
Speaker 1: that you have to start. You have to trust yourself,

1290
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: and then you have to do the work.

1291
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I would say that's probably the other thing, right,

1292
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 2: It's like, don't let off on the hard work. Like

1293
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 2: it's just even if you're running into dead ends, keep going,

1294
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 2: keep going, keep going.

1295
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 1: No, it's great advice.

1296
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 2: And I think also probably some version of like enjoy

1297
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 2: the journey along the way, because the whole like looking

1298
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 2: back on it, the journey was the fun part, right.

1299
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,040
Speaker 2: I just said a couple of minutes ago, like the IPO,

1300
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 2: like what kind of emotions that I have on it?

1301
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 2: And like, I don't. There was like it was almost

1302
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 2: like an emotional overload where I don't I don't think

1303
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 2: about that day and I'm like, oh, yeah, I was

1304
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 2: really happy or I was like, oh I was really

1305
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 2: stressed out. It was just like, oh, that day just happened.

1306
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 2: And if you think about that, it's really not about

1307
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 2: the destination. It's about the journey. And when I think

1308
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 2: back on what was fun about doing it, or like

1309
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 2: what's the thing that I'm chasing, it's the being deeply

1310
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 2: steeped in the unknown and having this sort of goal

1311
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 2: and not knowing how to figure it out, but be

1312
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 2: working towards it and like kind of the idea that

1313
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:34,080
Speaker 2: if you figure it out, it's going to feel incredibly satisfying. Right. Yeah,

1314
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 2: there was a a quote that my dad used to

1315
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 2: tell me, and I think this is an Einstein quote.

1316
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 2: I'm going to butcher this year. So it's something like

1317
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:47,919
Speaker 2: it's like the years of searching in the dark right

1318
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 2: until you find like the little breakthrough. This I think

1319
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 2: is sort of like working on something where you don't

1320
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 2: know how. Translates a lot to academic research and academic

1321
01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:58,960
Speaker 2: as well, because a lot of times you don't know

1322
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 2: until you have the result. But that's like, that's where

1323
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 2: a lot of the satisfaction, if you look back, comes from.

1324
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: I like that you quoted Einstein.

1325
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll have to look that quote up to see

1326
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:15,520
Speaker 2: if I if I if I hopefully I didn't butcher it

1327
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 2: too much.

1328
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 1: Are there certain people like Einstein? Like, are there certain

1329
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 1: great thought leaders that throughout your life have always been

1330
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: your north star people that you've looked up.

1331
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 2: To who are Yes, very much so. Steve Jobs for sure,

1332
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 2: deep deep admiration for Steve Jobs. And I regrettably never

1333
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:42,360
Speaker 2: got a chance to meet the guy. I think Steve

1334
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 2: Jobs was the person that got me interested in wanting

1335
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 2: to build consumer stuff or to build computer stuff in general.

1336
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 2: Because remember I was like a physics student and I

1337
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 2: was like, I thought I was on a path to

1338
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:56,600
Speaker 2: like doing academic math or physics my whole life. It

1339
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:59,160
Speaker 2: was using Apple products for the first time that really

1340
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 2: inspired me, like this this sort of laser focus on

1341
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 2: user design and experience, because I thought it was just

1342
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 2: magical what they did. He's definitely tip the top of

1343
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 2: the list. Another person I put on that list is

1344
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 2: probably Richard Feynman, famous physicists that's responsible for like kind

1345
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 2: of modern quantum field theory. There's this really great book

1346
01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 2: it's called Shirley, You're Joking Mister Feinneman, which is a

1347
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 2: biography of kind of how he thought about physics and science,

1348
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:34,600
Speaker 2: and there was a playfulness to it and an intuitive

1349
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:38,599
Speaker 2: ness to his thinking that I don't know if I'm

1350
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 2: ever going to achieve that, but I'm just like, it's

1351
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 2: one of the greatest thinkers of all time. I think

1352
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 2: I'll add a kind of unusual one to this mix. Ubuck, Yeah,

1353
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 2: do you love music? I do I love music a

1354
01:09:54,000 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 2: little On Tupac, I think the sort of like pure individuality.

1355
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:04,320
Speaker 2: They's just like something very beautiful about it. And he

1356
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 2: had such a short life and left such a profound

1357
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 2: impact on everyone around him because he was who he was,

1358
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 2: like unabashedly to his core and all of his music. Right,

1359
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 2: So yeah, I say those three I love it and

1360
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 2: Steve Jobs, Richard Fiemon and Tupac Shakor.

1361
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 1: Hey, that's a power trio. If I've ever heard of one.

1362
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 1: What's the best piece of advice you have received from

1363
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 1: somebody that you vitalized.

1364
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 2: I got a chance to meet Kobe Bryant once before

1365
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 2: he passed away. I say that, I don't know that

1366
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 2: I've gotten advice from too many people that I admire

1367
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 2: over the years. I think when vlad n I had

1368
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 2: the chance to meet him once, he kind of he

1369
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:53,439
Speaker 2: kind of put an exclamation point on like the Mamba

1370
01:10:53,479 --> 01:10:56,519
Speaker 2: mentality and kind of told us to like keep going

1371
01:10:56,560 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 2: with the Mamba mentality and that kind of like ethos

1372
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 2: of like super super dedication to your craft, right, like

1373
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:12,400
Speaker 2: hard work and a devotion to your craft that's maniacal. Right.

1374
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 2: His life also got cut short way too soon.

1375
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's so goaded.

1376
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1377
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:22,679
Speaker 1: What's your advice for upcoming guests that do the running

1378
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 1: interview show with me?

1379
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,840
Speaker 2: Well, if it's in New York during the summer, bring

1380
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 2: a towel in some cold water because you're gonna dust

1381
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 2: yourself with it at the end. And a change of

1382
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:33,759
Speaker 2: clothes and a change of clothes. Yeah, yeah, totally.

1383
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 1: And if you have long hair, bring a hair tie.

1384
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 1: Although I sometimes supply thank you guys so much for

1385
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:45,519
Speaker 1: tuning into today's episode. Your support means the world to

1386
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 1: me and helps us continue bringing you inspiring conversations. If

1387
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:52,120
Speaker 1: you've been enjoying post run High, please be sure to

1388
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: follow the show so you never miss an episode. Leave

1389
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:57,120
Speaker 1: us a quick rating, and share this episode with a friend.

1390
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:00,200
Speaker 1: We've got great conversations coming your way and you won't

1391
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 1: want to miss them. I'll see you guys next week.

1392
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: I hope you got your post run high going