1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,440
Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,479
Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

3
00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,040
Speaker 2: that brings you the secret histories and little known facts

4
00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,439
Speaker 2: and figures behind your favorite movies, music, TV shows, and more.

5
00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:20,759
Speaker 2: We are your two men on the Internet telling you

6
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,079
Speaker 2: useless information supposed to fire your imagination and tell you

7
00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:25,400
Speaker 2: how white your shirts can be.

8
00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,920
Speaker 1: I'm Alex Heigel and I'm Jordan Run Talk and Jordan.

9
00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,160
Speaker 2: Today we're talking about one of the all time greatest

10
00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,040
Speaker 2: rock riffs. We're talking about a young man's snarl of

11
00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,600
Speaker 2: anti consumerism that turned the young men who made it

12
00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,199
Speaker 2: into some of the most insufferably wealthy musicians in all

13
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,800
Speaker 2: of recorded history. That's right, Jordan. We're talking about parentheses open.

14
00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:50,160
Speaker 2: I can't get no parentheses clothes, Satisfaction by the Rolling Stones.

15
00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,520
Speaker 2: I refuse to pontificate about this song. You're gonna do

16
00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 2: all that for us. It just is. It's satisfaction. It's

17
00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:03,000
Speaker 2: the demi urge of popular guitar music. It's the boundaries

18
00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:09,319
Speaker 2: at which cool guitar tone and pop writing interact. That's it.

19
00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,959
Speaker 2: It would just be one of those songs forever. Nothing

20
00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 2: more to say about it except for all the stuff

21
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:15,920
Speaker 2: we're about to say. But if you want to read

22
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,080
Speaker 2: a lot about what it means, find Clinton Halen or

23
00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,720
Speaker 2: one of those jerk offs and let them explain to

24
00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,560
Speaker 2: you how it fits into mid century white man malaise

25
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,200
Speaker 2: or possibly the Red Scare.

26
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's kind of true. There's a book

27
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,640
Speaker 1: that I cited called The Sun and the Moon and

28
00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,720
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones, which is like, you know, the three

29
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,959
Speaker 1: things that have just sort of always been present. And yeah,

30
00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,240
Speaker 1: that's fair, that's very very fair. And also I got

31
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,920
Speaker 1: to say, as the resident Beatles guy on this show

32
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,960
Speaker 1: and possibly the resident Beatles guy in most of your lives,

33
00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,280
Speaker 1: I have to say I was reluctant to tackle this

34
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 1: topic initially, despite the fact that the song is turning

35
00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,680
Speaker 1: sixty years old this month, which is insane.

36
00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,400
Speaker 2: It's crazy to think that there's a future in which

37
00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,560
Speaker 2: Mick Jagger will still be singing this song when it

38
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 2: turns sixty five, after he famously said he'd rather be

39
00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,400
Speaker 2: dead than singing it when he was sixty five, So.

40
00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,359
Speaker 1: That means he's wanted to be dead for a long time.

41
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 2: Now, long time who among us?

42
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,959
Speaker 1: Well, but yeah, you know, it's not that I buy

43
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,000
Speaker 1: into the whole Beatles Versus Stones thing, because that's just

44
00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,440
Speaker 1: stupid and as any classic rock gri and will tell you,

45
00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,360
Speaker 1: it's patently not true. The bands were very close friends,

46
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,400
Speaker 1: and there are tons of stories of them sharing cabs

47
00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,799
Speaker 1: together around London and their early days and huddled around

48
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,560
Speaker 1: tables at clubs to work out their single release schedules

49
00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,400
Speaker 1: that didn't step on each other's toes. Mick Jagger and

50
00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 1: Keith Richards were in the audience during the Beatles' famous

51
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,359
Speaker 1: TV broadcast that yielded All You Need Is Love in

52
00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,200
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, and the Beatles saying uncredited backup vocals

53
00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,400
Speaker 1: on the Stones track We Love You that same year.

54
00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,560
Speaker 1: So this is any kind of personal vendetta born of

55
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,440
Speaker 1: my psychotic Beatles fandom. It's just that at first, I

56
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,720
Speaker 1: kind of I didn't think there was that much to

57
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,079
Speaker 1: say about.

58
00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,520
Speaker 2: The song Rolling Stones won.

59
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:07,720
Speaker 1: How so the fact that they're still out there on

60
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:08,120
Speaker 1: the road.

61
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,080
Speaker 2: They put out Exile on Main Street.

62
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,120
Speaker 1: You like Exile on Main Street more than any Beatles release?

63
00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:18,600
Speaker 1: Question mark, Yes, Okay, let's talk about that for a minute.

64
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,800
Speaker 2: No, No, I don't know, man, I mean, look, I

65
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,640
Speaker 2: because like I didn't I wasn't a Beatles' album guy

66
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 2: until college, because it was just like I had Beatles

67
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,880
Speaker 2: one and I just knew all of the songs. Same

68
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,919
Speaker 2: with the Stones, honestly. But for me, like every time

69
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,680
Speaker 2: I listened to Exile, I find something new and interesting

70
00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,400
Speaker 2: in it, and I just noticed some new weird production

71
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,400
Speaker 2: thing or some stray bit of genius. The only mark

72
00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,800
Speaker 2: against it is the fin Angela Davis song, like the

73
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:54,320
Speaker 2: worst song ever recorded, but ten Little Blackbirds. It's just

74
00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,400
Speaker 2: like the most offensive thing. But everything about that album

75
00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,720
Speaker 2: is also perfect with the exception of that. And you know,

76
00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:06,240
Speaker 2: druggy experimentation from legitimate drug enthusiasts rather than the dainty,

77
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,200
Speaker 2: dainty boys of the Beatles is always going to be

78
00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,840
Speaker 2: interesting to me, especially when it's like in an old,

79
00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,800
Speaker 2: haunted castle and not like a studio where the technicians

80
00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 2: wear lab coats.

81
00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:17,159
Speaker 3: You know.

82
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 2: Okay, the problem is is that, like the Beetles may

83
00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,000
Speaker 2: be better, but the Rolling Stones were cooler.

84
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,920
Speaker 1: Sure, Okay, I can't fight you on that, that's true.

85
00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:25,680
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I.

86
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,560
Speaker 1: Just I listened to Excel on Main Street and it

87
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 1: just kind of all becomes one.

88
00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,039
Speaker 2: It's like when you make a stew and then you

89
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:35,200
Speaker 2: put it in the fridge.

90
00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,320
Speaker 1: A couple days later you take it out and it's

91
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,919
Speaker 1: just this kind of like brown sludge of well, you have.

92
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,680
Speaker 2: Mid making your stews correctly than my friend. You got

93
00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,720
Speaker 2: to keep some cohesion in there. You got to you

94
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,080
Speaker 2: got to do your vegetables to certain levels of dunness

95
00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,719
Speaker 2: of some pop and some are you know, a little

96
00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,720
Speaker 2: bit more mushy. I shouldn't. I shouldn't be telling you

97
00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,240
Speaker 2: about this. You need to come to this stuff yourself. Yeah,

98
00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,040
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's it's just hits, like a lot

99
00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:02,560
Speaker 2: of the same wells of pathos and and just wonderful

100
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,040
Speaker 2: sounds and hooks every nook and cranny that record.

101
00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,599
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I hate the Stones. I like the Stones.

102
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,719
Speaker 1: But to me, they are a great attitude, They're a

103
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 1: great vibe. Like you said, they are a great sound.

104
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,800
Speaker 1: But I feel like I could just kind of survive

105
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,719
Speaker 1: with like a double album greatest hit set for the

106
00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,039
Speaker 1: Stones and be totally good. And I as you know,

107
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,120
Speaker 1: I was thrown into the deep end of Stone's lore

108
00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:27,919
Speaker 1: because for a few years I was working on a

109
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,360
Speaker 1: documentary style podcast for I Heart about the Stones. Recording

110
00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,400
Speaker 1: of Excel on Main Street and their nineteen seventy two

111
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,440
Speaker 1: tour of the United States, and I really thought by

112
00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,320
Speaker 1: like going deep on that I would glean more from it,

113
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,480
Speaker 1: I would appreciate it more, And for some reason I didn't.

114
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,680
Speaker 1: It just didn't really Even after interviewing all these people

115
00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,960
Speaker 1: who were on the tour who knew the band intimately,

116
00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,719
Speaker 1: I just never connected with it. And I'd even met

117
00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,400
Speaker 1: some of the Stones on occasions, and I still didn't

118
00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,880
Speaker 1: really feel anything. And honestly, it wasn't until I had

119
00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 1: the chance to see the Stones perform last that I

120
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,359
Speaker 1: finally started to get it. Have you ever seen The

121
00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:03,920
Speaker 1: Stones live?

122
00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,359
Speaker 2: No, dude, how much money do you think I have

123
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 2: to throw at this stuff? Well? No.

124
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,000
Speaker 1: I had two separate friends who, like a day or

125
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,000
Speaker 1: two before their Met Life shows, got super cheap last minute,

126
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,480
Speaker 1: like sub one hundred dollars tickets and they're like, do

127
00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,200
Speaker 1: you want to go? And I went the first night

128
00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,640
Speaker 1: and it ruled. And that another friend a couple days

129
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,880
Speaker 1: later who asked me the same question. I was like, Yeah,

130
00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:25,880
Speaker 1: I went the other day. It was incredible. I'd love

131
00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,000
Speaker 1: to go again. Yeah. I would have never spent the

132
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,120
Speaker 1: money that these things usually go for if they weren't.

133
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,400
Speaker 2: Super super cheap, and I'm so glad I did so.

134
00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,680
Speaker 1: Folks, this is a PSA. If the Stones are coming

135
00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,080
Speaker 1: to your town, wait till the last minute and see

136
00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:38,800
Speaker 1: if you can get any last minute tickets at those

137
00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:39,600
Speaker 1: big stadiums.

138
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,000
Speaker 2: It ruled. I mean, you'd need forty licks, and then

139
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,600
Speaker 2: you also need exile sure, yeah, in its entirety, no skips,

140
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,160
Speaker 2: and then you'd need a whole other one of like

141
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 2: deep cuts from all the country records, and even some

142
00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,640
Speaker 2: of their eighties ones have some bangers, you know, let's

143
00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:00,160
Speaker 2: not front really yeah, dude, waiting on a friend. It's

144
00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:01,680
Speaker 2: even some good stuff on Black and Blue.

145
00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,840
Speaker 1: Can you give us Shattered? Give us the rap from

146
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:04,599
Speaker 1: Shattered please?

147
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,760
Speaker 2: He's so obnoxious on that song? What is it? Rats

148
00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,240
Speaker 2: in the hotel Roaches Downtown.

149
00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,960
Speaker 1: Everyone gives Dibby Harry so much grief for the Rapture rap.

150
00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:19,040
Speaker 2: Now his is awful.

151
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I do love the Stones. It's more like the.

152
00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,440
Speaker 2: Beatles go deeper, do they? Yeah? They do deeper for you,

153
00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,560
Speaker 2: or deeper into deeper into what I think.

154
00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,120
Speaker 1: They cover a wider swath of music. But the Stones rock.

155
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,760
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, Stones rock better. But here in

156
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,120
Speaker 1: Paul mccarton to do long tall sally and like I'm

157
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:38,800
Speaker 1: down all those little Richard songs.

158
00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he has a better rock voice than

159
00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,600
Speaker 2: Nick too. We're just getting into subjective measures here. I mean,

160
00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,240
Speaker 2: I think the Stones, being originally a blues band and

161
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,120
Speaker 2: not a skiffle band whatever that was, I suggest already

162
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 2: went a little bit deeper because they were not simply

163
00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,400
Speaker 2: listening to whatever the skiffle was. They were listening to

164
00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:01,120
Speaker 2: like hardcore Chess Records blues already qualifies them as going deeper.

165
00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,440
Speaker 2: And the fact that they like went down to muscle

166
00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,560
Speaker 2: shoals and Jamaica, like they were just so much more

167
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,040
Speaker 2: globe trotting than the Beatles with where they chose to record,

168
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,880
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, like, yeah, the Beatles have like

169
00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,360
Speaker 2: way more pastiches of different styles, but they were all

170
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,960
Speaker 2: still doing them out of all of the same studio,

171
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,360
Speaker 2: like with no other local musicians. You know, these Indian

172
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:29,400
Speaker 2: musicians did they Yeah, oh yeah they did, Okay, so

173
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:30,120
Speaker 2: I'll give them that.

174
00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,120
Speaker 1: And they wanted to record in Stacks, But as soon

175
00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,360
Speaker 1: as the people at Stacks heard that the Beatles were involved,

176
00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:36,679
Speaker 1: they just tried to price gouge them.

177
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean that probably would have been pretty

178
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 2: embarrassing for them. Honestly, Like, if you're like Ringo and

179
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,599
Speaker 2: you know Al Jackson junior of Booker T and the

180
00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,680
Speaker 2: MG shows up drumming, I'd probably just quit. Any Stax musician.

181
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:55,040
Speaker 2: Duck Dun on bass, Pau McCarty's Duck Dunn comes in

182
00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,520
Speaker 2: playing a bass the size of a telephone pole, they

183
00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:58,960
Speaker 2: get blown out of the studio.

184
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,280
Speaker 1: We can I agree to disagree on this, but I

185
00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,040
Speaker 1: will say I'm forced to admit that, having researched this

186
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 1: along with you, it's probably more fun to talk about

187
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,280
Speaker 1: the Stones than to talk about the Beatles.

188
00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:12,280
Speaker 2: Hell yeah it is.

189
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,760
Speaker 1: Their stories are arguably way more entertaining and way more dramatic,

190
00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,280
Speaker 1: and way more salacious and usually more hilarious than the Beatles.

191
00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,040
Speaker 1: So I think this is gonna be a fun one.

192
00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,560
Speaker 1: I went from fearing that we did have enough to

193
00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 1: talk about to us pounding out twenty pages this morning.

194
00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:30,960
Speaker 2: This is gonna be a good one. So join us

195
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,160
Speaker 2: as we ride around the world metaphorically doing this and

196
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,760
Speaker 2: signing that in an attempt to break our losing streak.

197
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,040
Speaker 2: Those are lyrics from the song Here's everything you didn't

198
00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,160
Speaker 2: know about the Rolling Stones. I Can't get no satisfaction.

199
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,480
Speaker 2: In the mid sixties, the Rolling Stones were at a crossroads.

200
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,760
Speaker 2: They've released their first single, I Want to Be Your Man,

201
00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,360
Speaker 2: written for them by The Beatles, and their manager Andrew

202
00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,160
Speaker 2: Lug Oldham was low, I think.

203
00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,600
Speaker 1: Lug what is lug Luh?

204
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,640
Speaker 2: What kind of name is that? Short for Lugi? That's

205
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:11,199
Speaker 2: what went on his birth certificate. His dad was like, oh,

206
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:12,320
Speaker 2: that's good. Doctor.

207
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,079
Speaker 4: Doctor was like, okay, that's a good bit, very well, sir,

208
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,840
Speaker 4: Lugi tremendous and their manager, Andrew Lugi Oldham had in

209
00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,360
Speaker 4: its wake of that single, begun his crafty plan to

210
00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:28,440
Speaker 4: usurp The Stone's nominal leader, the dandyish, unstable and allegedly

211
00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 4: genius Brian Jones.

212
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,560
Speaker 2: Oldham has given various reasons for his motivations for doing so.

213
00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,160
Speaker 2: The most charitable one is, rather than continued to have

214
00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,240
Speaker 2: the group based around the idea of one leader a

215
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,600
Speaker 2: la a Hermann in the Hermit's situation, he wanted a

216
00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,040
Speaker 2: more collaborative identity for The Stone. But really he'd appreciately

217
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,440
Speaker 2: seen the Beatles as the end of an era, the

218
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,679
Speaker 2: era of pop stars who were delivered songs by professional

219
00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,000
Speaker 2: songwriters instead of merely writing them for themselves. So while

220
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,920
Speaker 2: there are different explanations and different versions of the story

221
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,400
Speaker 2: of how Mick and Keith begin writing, to the easiest explanation,

222
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,520
Speaker 2: and thus the one I'm going to go with, is

223
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,080
Speaker 2: that they were just living together at the time, whereas

224
00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,520
Speaker 2: Jones had his own flat as I believe they call

225
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,559
Speaker 2: them in sunny London Town. The story goes that Odin

226
00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,240
Speaker 2: locked the Glimmer Twins into their kitchen and told them

227
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 2: they weren't coming out until they'd written a proper song,

228
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,680
Speaker 2: not a pastiche of another musical style, and not a

229
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,640
Speaker 2: blues song, but something that could be released as a single.

230
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,640
Speaker 2: They spent all night in the kitchen, and Richards eventually

231
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,760
Speaker 2: got bored of being stuck in there without an elephant

232
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,400
Speaker 2: supply of heroin and started strumming his guitar and singing

233
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,439
Speaker 2: It is the evening of the day, and the two

234
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,200
Speaker 2: of them quickly came up with the rest of the song,

235
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,560
Speaker 2: although at least one source does suggest that As Tears

236
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,800
Speaker 2: Go By was actually written by Jagger and a session guitarist,

237
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,720
Speaker 2: Big Jim Sullivan, who will pop up in this episode again.

238
00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,840
Speaker 2: If so, that would be the first time of many

239
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,360
Speaker 2: that a song written by Jagger or Richard's in collaboration

240
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,760
Speaker 2: with someone else would subsequently be to Jagger Richards and

241
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,320
Speaker 2: not the third person. Welcome to the music industry.

242
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,560
Speaker 1: Lennonda McCartney did that a lot too, or rather, Paul

243
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,760
Speaker 1: McCartney would write a lot of things, especially around the

244
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,000
Speaker 1: Sergeant Pepper era with their Roady mal Evans and mal

245
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,080
Speaker 1: Evans's diaries were published recently and there's all these like

246
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,679
Speaker 1: really heartbreaking excerpts of him being like grow. Paul says

247
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,920
Speaker 1: that I'll be credited on Captain Pepper. Oh, it'll be

248
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,439
Speaker 1: so great. Maybe a new house for the family.

249
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Well, after the completed As Tears go By

250
00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,400
Speaker 2: was correctly shipped out of their filthy mouths and off

251
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,960
Speaker 2: to someone less openly disreputable and leering, in this case

252
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:40,000
Speaker 2: Mary unfaithful.

253
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,120
Speaker 1: All right, I don't think I realized that As Tears

254
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,640
Speaker 1: go By was the first Jagger Richard song. That's a

255
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,160
Speaker 1: good song for a first time, it is.

256
00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:52,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so. Despite this push two original songwriting, the

257
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,120
Speaker 2: bulk of the Stones first album was made up of

258
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,680
Speaker 2: cover versions of songs by Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, Rufus Thomas,

259
00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,720
Speaker 2: Marvin Gay and other black American musicians. So The Stones'

260
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,880
Speaker 2: debut album, eventually coming to be known as England's Newest

261
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,559
Speaker 2: hit Makers, went to number one in the UK charts

262
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,200
Speaker 2: in April of nineteen sixty four. This was a big

263
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,719
Speaker 2: deal all the time because full albums, as opposed to

264
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,320
Speaker 2: single releases, were considered the province of the adult market,

265
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,320
Speaker 2: who generally had more money to spend on this time

266
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,440
Speaker 2: of things, so they were priced according and the sales

267
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,400
Speaker 2: charts just turned over at an absolutely glacial pace. Between

268
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,240
Speaker 2: May of nineteen sixty three and February of nineteen sixty eight,

269
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,280
Speaker 2: so almost five years, the only artists to have number

270
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,080
Speaker 2: one albums in the UK with the Beatles, The Stones,

271
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,080
Speaker 2: Bob Dylan, The Monkeys, the Cast of the Sound of

272
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,360
Speaker 2: Music and Val dunikin.

273
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,480
Speaker 1: Friend of the Pod, Val dunikin.

274
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,640
Speaker 2: Anything on Val dunkin Jordan.

275
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,760
Speaker 1: He had some incredible sweaters that much, I do know.

276
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,200
Speaker 2: Well, Funnily enough, between May of nineteen sixty three and

277
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,760
Speaker 2: April of nineteen sixty five, so almost a full two years,

278
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,880
Speaker 2: it was only the Beatles in the Stones that had

279
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:02,000
Speaker 2: number one albums.

280
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,240
Speaker 1: That's crazy. I didn't realize that. That's nuts, I know.

281
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,640
Speaker 1: And also I think the sound the music soundtrack was

282
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,160
Speaker 1: number one for some ridiculous length of time too, like

283
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,160
Speaker 1: I want to say, like the better part of the year.

284
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:14,840
Speaker 1: I think that might actually be one of the best

285
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,040
Speaker 1: selling albums of the decade in the UK. That's an

286
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 1: insane stat though. Wow, I didn't realize that you were

287
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:22,680
Speaker 1: a school of me on this intro.

288
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,800
Speaker 2: So the next single the band released, which the Bow

289
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,160
Speaker 2: didified version of Buddy Hawley's Not Fade Away. That came

290
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 2: out in February nineteen sixty four and it hit number

291
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,920
Speaker 2: three on the UK charts, and it became the first

292
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,280
Speaker 2: Stones record to chart in the US, where it hit

293
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,760
Speaker 2: number forty eight. But that was considered enough of an

294
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,480
Speaker 2: achievement to begin discussions about getting them across the pond

295
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,560
Speaker 2: to the US to tour for the first time.

296
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,480
Speaker 1: Yes and the Beatles. Famously, their first trip to America

297
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,880
Speaker 1: was this capitulation. America fell to them, huge crowds beating

298
00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,160
Speaker 1: them at the airport, their famous record breaking at all

299
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,080
Speaker 1: of the show appearance playing at Carnegie Hall really really,

300
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,320
Speaker 1: really tremendous. The Stones first US journey, Uh was more

301
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,120
Speaker 1: mixed show, we say. They went on Dean Martin's Variety

302
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,680
Speaker 1: show and he mocked them so much that Bob Dylan,

303
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,320
Speaker 1: in his liner notes to his album Another Side of

304
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,040
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan, wrote the line Dean Martin should apologize to

305
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones. It was a lot of those jokes

306
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,240
Speaker 1: that you could imagine Dino with his you know, ice

307
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:33,280
Speaker 1: clinking in his glass, all the stump. I'd be great.

308
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,960
Speaker 3: I wanna leave right after the show for London. They're

309
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,200
Speaker 3: challenging the Beatles to hair pulling contest. I could swear

310
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,600
Speaker 3: Jackie Coogan and Skippy we're in that group. Well, I'm

311
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,520
Speaker 3: gonna let you in on something. You know, all these

312
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,600
Speaker 3: singing groups today, you're under the impression they.

313
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:53,120
Speaker 2: Have long hair.

314
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:55,400
Speaker 1: Not to at all.

315
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 2: It's not to go to lousion.

316
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,400
Speaker 3: They just have low foreheads and high eyebrows.

317
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,600
Speaker 1: Sa Ron.

318
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,160
Speaker 3: So as we leave you right now, we'll have our

319
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,800
Speaker 3: shorteren emission and we'll be back in Hollywood callous in

320
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:11,600
Speaker 3: about a minute.

321
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:11,760
Speaker 1: Now.

322
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,960
Speaker 3: Don't go away, you you wouldn't leave me here alone

323
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:15,960
Speaker 3: with the Rolling Stones.

324
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:18,840
Speaker 2: I just feel like you got to be like a

325
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,880
Speaker 2: real punk to take it from Dean Martin. Take it

326
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,120
Speaker 2: from din O. Yeah, that's true, your D list rat

327
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,320
Speaker 2: packer and we're the Rolling Stones. Don't bully us.

328
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,280
Speaker 1: Oh, come on, he's more than a D list member

329
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,320
Speaker 1: of the rat Pack. It's him and Frank. Him and

330
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:33,840
Speaker 1: Frank are like vibe for number one.

331
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:34,680
Speaker 2: Was he?

332
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 1: Okay, he was number two, but he was always number two.

333
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:43,760
Speaker 1: It goes Frank Dean, Sammy Peter because of the Kennedy connection,

334
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,280
Speaker 1: and then Joey Bishop is last.

335
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,160
Speaker 2: I stand by that, Okay, okay, yeah, I'll defer to

336
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:49,560
Speaker 2: you on that.

337
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,960
Speaker 1: But Bob Dylan loved the Rolling Stones in a way

338
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,840
Speaker 1: that he seems to love few things then or now.

339
00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,440
Speaker 1: It's kind of adorable, but it's also kind of weird.

340
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,960
Speaker 1: Dylan was obsessed with Brian Jones for some reason and

341
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,639
Speaker 1: repeatedly tried to call him to meet him when he

342
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,280
Speaker 1: was on tour of Britain in nineteen sixty five, and

343
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:12,000
Speaker 1: Brian Jones, as we'll discuss, was not a well man.

344
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,879
Speaker 1: He was so paranoid that he refused to believe that

345
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:16,399
Speaker 1: it was Bob Dylan on the other end of the

346
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:21,000
Speaker 1: phone until Dylan's manager, Albert Grossman came on and convinced him,

347
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 1: and Dylan supposedly told Brian Jones the Stones were the

348
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,480
Speaker 1: best band in the world, which seems like.

349
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,400
Speaker 2: The kind of dumb thing that Bob Dylan would say.

350
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,960
Speaker 1: And they spent so long on the phone over the

351
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,200
Speaker 1: next year that the Stone staff dreaded getting the phone

352
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,679
Speaker 1: bills because Brian Jones was talking long distance to Dylan

353
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,359
Speaker 1: at all hours, which is kind of adorable.

354
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 2: Is that where he picked up all his Carnabie Dandy

355
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,879
Speaker 2: exactly heels, Yeah, yep, yep. He started dressing like Brian Jones.

356
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,639
Speaker 1: That's why Dylan's tour in nineteen sixty five when he

357
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 1: did come over was his last like solo acoustic tour

358
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,440
Speaker 1: when he kind of showed up in the standard folky

359
00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,640
Speaker 1: regalia of you know, denim and in platte. And then

360
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,240
Speaker 1: the next time he came over with his backing group

361
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:04,760
Speaker 1: who would later go on to be the band, he

362
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 1: was wearing his Chelsea boots in a mod suit and

363
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,399
Speaker 1: strapped in an electric guitar around him. When Brian Jones

364
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,639
Speaker 1: and Bob Dylan finally cross paths in New York for

365
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,960
Speaker 1: the first time at the end of the Stones nineteen

366
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 1: sixty five US tour, Brian Jones was so paranoid about

367
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,480
Speaker 1: getting busted for pot that even Dylan admitted that he

368
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 1: was bumming him out. And then things got even weirder

369
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,680
Speaker 1: when they went to Andy Warhol's factory and Brian Jones

370
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,560
Speaker 1: got a little too friendly with Edie Sedgwick, which also

371
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 1: bummed Bob out.

372
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,400
Speaker 2: I mean, he'sluck he didn't beat the shot out of her.

373
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 2: Brian Jones was a notorious woman abuser. Yeah, we'll talk

374
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,359
Speaker 2: about that. Die like everyone in the band kind of

375
00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 2: hate him.

376
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:41,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, we'll talk about that.

377
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,640
Speaker 2: Okay, great, Oh yeah, that's in there. Yeah.

378
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,400
Speaker 1: I think there's a direct quote from Keith that says

379
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:46,560
Speaker 1: he was not a good man.

380
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

381
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,840
Speaker 1: The Stones met up with Murray the Kay, the famous

382
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,440
Speaker 1: New York DJ and self appointed fifth beadle who would

383
00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,280
Speaker 1: earn a very different, believable nickname from Keith Richards that

384
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:00,919
Speaker 1: I don't know this.

385
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 2: It's Murray the word that sounds like it starts with K,

386
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 2: but it starts with a C. Okay, that's medium funny

387
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:10,840
Speaker 2: because he was really annoying.

388
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:16,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, but despite not making a great impression on Keith Richards,

389
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 1: Murray the K did play them a song by Bobby

390
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,359
Speaker 1: Womack called It's All Over Now, which had been a

391
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,879
Speaker 1: medium sized hit by a group called The Valentinos. The

392
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 1: Stones decided on it as their next single, much to

393
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 1: the annoyance of Bobby Womack himself, who wanted to release

394
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 1: his own version. Phil Spector had suggested to manager Andrew

395
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 1: lug Oldham that since the Stones loved the Chicago blues

396
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 1: label Chess Records so much, they said record there and

397
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 1: time was booked, and this was the genesis of a

398
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,359
Speaker 1: legend that when they arrived they found Muddy Waters changing

399
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 1: light bulbs and painting walls in the studio, which is

400
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:50,679
Speaker 1: not true.

401
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 2: He was what's the problem with that? He deserved better? Well,

402
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 2: I mean maybe he was just like, you know, helping out. Yeah,

403
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:03,120
Speaker 2: just help being a team player. Light Bombs don't change themselves.

404
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,119
Speaker 1: Aside from meeting several of their musical idols, which, aside

405
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 1: from Muddy Waters, included Willie Dixon and Chuck Berry, the

406
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 1: Stones managed to cut a version of It's All Over Now,

407
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 1: which became their first UK number one single in nineteen

408
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 1: sixty four. More tours and singles followed Little Red Rooster,

409
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 1: which Brian Jones was dismayed to find the band had

410
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 1: recorded without him.

411
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 2: He showed up to a session with only himself on

412
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,400
Speaker 2: engineer and Jagger's instructions on where to put his slide fills.

413
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 1: Wow, writing is on the wall because Brian Jones was

414
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,440
Speaker 1: the founder of this band and the leader of it

415
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 1: for the early years. That's not nice, yeh.

416
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 2: On April twenty third and nineteen sixty five, the band

417
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 2: kicked off their third tour of North America, the first

418
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:48,880
Speaker 2: of two that year.

419
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, they really grounded out. They did several tours of

420
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 1: the UK and Ireland that same year.

421
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 2: It's pretty nuts. They'd had two top ten hits at

422
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 2: this time the last time and time is on my side.

423
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 2: These were a respectable showing, but in the rankings of

424
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 2: the British Invasion, they still notched below Herman's Hermits, who

425
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 2: scored big with Missus Brown You've got a Lovely Daughter.

426
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 1: Truly dreadful song. Even I can't put a good face

427
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: on that.

428
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 2: This bell You've got a Lovely Daughter.

429
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 1: That's the kind of song that gives, like mid sixties

430
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: Mersey beat songs, a bad.

431
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah. Lead singer Peter Noon was considered a

432
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 2: younger cuter jagger clomb and he looked also something like JFK,

433
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 2: which helped the Hermit and his Hermits actually get distribution

434
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 2: in the US. Herman's Hermits sold more tickets than the

435
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 2: Stones and the Beatles combined over the next year, supposedly, which,

436
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 2: as you can imagine, is an insane thing. The Stones

437
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 2: shared concert bills with them in this period, and Mick

438
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,639
Speaker 2: always hated them. Herman's Hermits were in the top of

439
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 2: the bill and we were second, and there was some

440
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 2: argument about the dressing rooms. Herman was complaining because his

441
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 2: wasn't big enough. There were and he was top of

442
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 2: the bill because Herman's Hermits were huge, and the most

443
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 2: impossible thing was going out to have a Hamburger and

444
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 2: some guy would go, are you guys Herman Hermits? It

445
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 2: would it would kill us. We'd say, you Herman Hermit's is.

446
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 1: S Herbman's Emmitts. Is so funny because they are truly, truly,

447
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: maybe second only to Freddie and the Dreamers, like the

448
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: most saccherin pop group of the sixties, but they would

449
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: always be the headlining act for these future rock legends.

450
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 1: You've got the Stones, and then they also went on

451
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: tour with The Who a little later in nineteen sixty seven,

452
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 1: and the famous story of the Who trashing a holiday inn.

453
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 2: In I want to say Flint.

454
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 1: I think it was in Flint, and you know became

455
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 1: like ground zero for rock bands trashing hotels. That was

456
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 1: when they were on like a Hermit's Hermit's tour, and

457
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: there's pictures of like Peter Noon of Herman's Hermet's like

458
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: in the background as this holiday inn's getting torn apart.

459
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 1: So it's just hilarious. But like the squeaky cleanest group

460
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 1: of the British Invasion are evolved of all these like

461
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: really nasty guys and.

462
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 2: In Flint too, like it doesn't have enough problems. Despite this,

463
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 2: these early tours were remembered as a happy period before

464
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 2: drugs and serious financial pressures took hold of the group.

465
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: Photographer Jared with A g Mankowitz offered this evocative passage

466
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 2: to Rich Cohen in his twenty sixteen book The Sun

467
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 2: and the Moon and the Rolling Stones. That was the

468
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 2: best time, Gerer jid manco Witz said, because we were

469
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 2: still a gang. We didn't have that luxury or sophistication.

470
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 2: We didn't have backup bands. We didn't have sound checks

471
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 2: or lightings. We just had each other. It was primitive

472
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 2: and it was fantastic. One night we camped out on

473
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 2: the Apache Reservation outside Phoenix. It was like something out

474
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 2: of The Lone Ranger. We slept under the stars, cooked

475
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 2: on a fire. Keith bought us all guns and Stetson's

476
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 2: that whips. Yeah, sorry, I never did that for you guys.

477
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 2: The biggest pressure making Keith had to deal with was

478
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 2: to write the songs that kept their whole thing going.

479
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,199
Speaker 2: Of course, though Jared with the g Mankowitz continued, we

480
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 2: traveled at night. They'd come off the stage, go into

481
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: the limo and straight to the airport. We'd fly until two, three,

482
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: four am, check into some dump. Nobody to welcome us,

483
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 2: nothing open, no food, Dadsville. The bulk of the tour

484
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 2: was like that. You do the show, you're gone. And

485
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 2: in all the in between times Mick and Keith were working.

486
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 2: They had orders to come up with material and struggled

487
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: because the schedule wasn't conducive, but they pushed through, taking

488
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 2: down the ideas wherever they came. You'd see them all

489
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 2: the time, jotting little notes. Throughout the tour. Mick would

490
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,120
Speaker 2: later say that on the road was quote the best

491
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: place to write because you're totally into it. You get

492
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 2: back from a show, have something to eat, have a

493
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 2: few beers, and just go into your room and write.

494
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: I used to write about twelve songs in two weeks

495
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: on tour. They give you lots of ideas. The germ

496
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 2: of the songs usually came from Keith, who played old

497
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 2: blues legs which were then morph into something new over

498
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: which he'd sing wordless vowel sounds, which is just like

499
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 2: the strategy that literally everyone has in case you ever

500
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 2: want to know how to write a song, which the

501
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: just kind of to jam around and then you sing

502
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 2: nonsense stuff over it. That's what Lenin did. There's when

503
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: they they did that Bermuda box set. Oh yeah. Some

504
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: of the audio files where him like working on Watching

505
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: the Wheels and maybe Beautiful Boy too, and it's literally

506
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 2: just him banging out chords in a cycle until he

507
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 2: finds the core progression he likes and that he's just

508
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 2: singing gibberish over it, and then the rest is just

509
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: set dressing. Keith Richard's My favorite bit of studio advice

510
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 2: from him is add something new every thirty seconds. Huh.

511
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: That almost sounds stupid, but it's actually very smart.

512
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 2: It's great, great advice. Yeah, it keeps people's ears attuned.

513
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 2: So this process Valeve movement, Valel movements. So Keith and

514
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 2: Keith and Mick taking Valel movements is more or less

515
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: where we got satisfaction from. It was completed on tour

516
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: at the Fort Hotel in Clearwater, Florida, after the band

517
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 2: played a gig at the nearby Jack Russell Stadium, named

518
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 2: after the.

519
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: Dog that's a great question.

520
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 2: According to an article in the Saint Petersburg Times, about

521
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 2: two hundred young fans got into an altercation with a

522
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 2: line of police officers at the show. Hell Yeah, and

523
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: the Stones made it through just four songs as chaos

524
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: ensued and they were forced to flee in a white

525
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 2: station wagon like a white Bronco.

526
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: I regret to inform you the Jack Russell as a

527
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: baseball player.

528
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 2: Ah lame. While only a small fraction of the estimated

529
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: three to four thousand attendees caused chaos, the frenzy was

530
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 2: enough to push a local recreation director to his limit.

531
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 2: What a high limit that must have been. That's it,

532
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: he declared, There will never be another show like this

533
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 2: as long as I'm here at the Jack Russell Stadium.

534
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: Well, it was during their stay in Clearwater, Florida that

535
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: Keith Richards presented Mick with the infamous riff that we

536
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: all know and love for satisfaction. As per rock legend,

537
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: it came to him in a dream. However, the timing

538
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: and location of the stream has been the source of

539
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: much speculation.

540
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: Over the years.

541
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: I've seen it written that the dream actually occurred at

542
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: this very same hotel in Clearwater, Florida, but I suspect

543
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 1: that the tales evolved that way purely for economy of storytelling.

544
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: I've also heard that this dream occurred at his apartment

545
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: or his flat if you will, in Chelsea, his room

546
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: at the London Hilton, or a different flat in the

547
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: Saint John's.

548
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 2: Wood neighborhood of North London.

549
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: The latter spot is what Keith himself cites in his

550
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: twenty ten memoir Life, So let's go with that, and

551
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: the dream likely took place at some point in early

552
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five. But regardless of location, the substance of

553
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: the story is always the same. He's told it hundreds

554
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: of times over the years, but this is perhaps one

555
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: of my favorite versions from his appearance on NPR's Fresh Air.

556
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: I wish all songs would come this way, where you

557
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: just dream them and then the next morning there they are.

558
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: Satisfaction was a miracle that took place. I have one

559
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: of the first little cassette players, Arauco or Phillips. It

560
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: was a fascinating little machine to me, a set player

561
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: where you could actually lay ideas down wherever you were.

562
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: I set the machine up and put in a fresh tape.

563
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: I go to bed as usual with my guitar, and

564
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: I wake up the next morning and see the tape

565
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: is run till the very end. And I said, well,

566
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 1: I didn't do anything. Maybe I hit the button while

567
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: I was asleep, So I put it back to the

568
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: beginning and pushed play, and there was sort of a

569
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: ghostly version of Then after that, there's forty minutes of

570
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: me snoring. The forty minutes is always very specific, and

571
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: he's retelling of this, Yeah, it's always forty minutes.

572
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: I always like that. He notes that he sleeps us

573
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 2: with his guitar, which is like one of the bits

574
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: of advice that he gives in life. He's like, literally,

575
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: sleep with your guitar.

576
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No. When I was working on that Rolling

577
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: Stones show, one of the guys that I worked with

578
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: on it was this Rolling Stone magazine journalist Robert Greenfield,

579
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: and he lived with Keith at nellcut the the mansion

580
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: on the French Riviera where they were recording Excel on

581
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: Main Street, and he said, yeah, Keith truly did sleep

582
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: with his guitar. He would go into the toilet with

583
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: it like he was never without this guitar.

584
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 2: Awesome, Yeah, that's what you That's the attitude it.

585
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: Is, you know, Keith Richards in every sense it is

586
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: not a quitter. Ah.

587
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: So in his autobiography Life, Richards also id'd this legendary

588
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 2: recorder as a Phillips and it was actually pretty novel

589
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 2: at the time. It had been released by the Phillips

590
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: Corporation because they were trying to develop an engineer there

591
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: or head of development there named lou Auten's was attempting

592
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: to slim down the possibilities for mobile recording. Prior to this,

593
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 2: we're talking real to world tape units. You know, when

594
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: Alan Lomax went and did his famous Southern Journey in

595
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 2: this whole contraption that he had to carry around in

596
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 2: his car to record people was like sixty seventy pounds.

597
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: So qu Autins was walking through the halls of Phillips

598
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: Development with like a carved block of wood roughly the

599
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: size of the completed project, and telling everyone work on it. Okay,

600
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 2: the internal real toil of the cassette tape has to

601
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: fit in this. So basically portability and size were the

602
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 2: first priority there. So Richard's exact model of Phillips recorders

603
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 2: believed to have been an e L thirty three oh two,

604
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: which utilized germanium transistors. We will return to germanium transistors later.

605
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 2: I think small, Wow, Yeah, it looks it's quite portable.

606
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: But Richard's beyond using it to rescue satisfaction from the

607
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: realms of the subconscious. He basically ended up anchoring several

608
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 2: Stones classics just with this device, he told the Wall

609
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: Street Journal and an interview. I began to think of

610
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: the machine not as a dictation advice, but as a

611
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 2: mini recording studio. I just couldn't use an electric guitar

612
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 2: to record on it. The sound just overwhelmed the mic

613
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: and speaker. I tried to an acoustic guitar instead and

614
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 2: got this dry crips guitar sound on the tape the

615
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 2: exact sound I'd been looking for. At the time, I

616
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 2: was experimenting with open tunings on the guitar, you know,

617
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 2: tuning the strings to form specific chords so I could

618
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 2: bang out the broadest possible sound. That's how I came

619
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: up with Street Fighting Man's opening riff. Sometime in early

620
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: sixty eight, I took the Phillips recorder into London's Olympic

621
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: Sound Studio and had Charlie Watts meet me there. Charlie

622
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 2: had a snap drum kit that was made in the

623
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 2: nineteen thirties. Jazz drummers used to carry around this kit,

624
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: which folded into a suitcase to practice while they were

625
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 2: on the bus of the train, and had a little

626
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: spring up high hat and a half sized tambourine for

627
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: a snare. It was perfect because, like the acoustic guitar,

628
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: it wouldn't overpower the recorder's mike. Everyone do yourself a

629
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: favor and google this thing. It's like embarrassing what it

630
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: actually looks like. So he said, he had Charlie sit

631
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 2: right next to the mic with his little kit, and

632
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: then Keith just kneeled on the floor next to him

633
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 2: with an acoustic a Gibson Hummingbird big guitar, and then

634
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: he says, there we were in front of this little box,

635
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 2: hammering away, and after we listened to playback, the sound

636
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 2: was perfect. He also explains a little bit more about

637
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: the sound he got out of the Phillips in his

638
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 2: autobiography Life Playing an acoustic You'd overload the Phillips cassette

639
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: player to the point of distortion, so that when it

640
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: played back it was effectively an electric guitar. You were

641
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 2: using the cassette player as a pickup and an amplifier

642
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 2: at the same time. Forcing acoustic guitars through a cassette

643
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: player made what came out the other end electric as hell.

644
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 2: In the studio, I plugged the cassette into a little

645
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 2: extension speaker and put a microphone in front of the

646
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 2: extension speaker so it had a little bit more breadth

647
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 2: and depth, and put that onto tape. That was the

648
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 2: basic track. There are no electric instruments on Street Fighting

649
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 2: Man at all, apart from the bass, which I overdubbed later.

650
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: They're all acoustic guitars. Even the solo that we're like

651
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: Wow sounds almost like a siren. Which I think was

652
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: the point. Oh yeah, I know you're right. Yeah yeah,

653
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'd have to dive into the true

654
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 2: granularity of that. But maybe it maybe it was an

655
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: acoustic guitar. But sadly the e L thirty three two

656
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: as a studio tool had a limited shelf life because

657
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: Phillips put a limitter on the device soon after in

658
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: its production run, so that you couldn't overload it. As

659
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 2: Keith says, just as you're getting off on something, they

660
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: put a lock on it. But this is actually what's

661
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 2: really wild about how he did this. For Street Fight,

662
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 2: Man Jumping Jack, Flash, Gimme Shelter. He would do what

663
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: he was suggesting, which is just play this acoustic guitar

664
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 2: into the tape recorder, but then he would overdob up

665
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: to like eight other guitars on this And that's why

666
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 2: the guitar sound is so full on those, because I

667
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 2: think on Street Fighting, he says, it's up to eight.

668
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: Back to you, Jordan.

669
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: So back to the morning that Keith Richards wakes up

670
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: after having dreamed the satisfaction riff. He plays it back,

671
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: he hears the ghostly No, I think it was just

672
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: those five notes I don't even think it was the

673
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: descending part. And at first he was really worried that

674
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: it was too close to a recent Motown hit, Dancing

675
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: in the Street by Martha and the Vandellas.

676
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 4: Dum oh, yeah, I can kind of hear it.

677
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: Sure.

678
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: Ultimately he decided that was fine. He perhaps recalled that

679
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 1: the Love and Spoonful was worried that the riff would

680
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: You Believe In Magic? Was a sped up version of

681
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: another Martha and the Vendela's hit, heat Wave, and no

682
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: one seemed to care. So maybe he was like, if

683
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: it's good enough for Love and Spoonful, it's good enough

684
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: for me.

685
00:34:53,040 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: That's often what I say. It is kind of the

686
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 2: same core progression.

687
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: Fine, yeah, Keith put the tape into an envelope marked

688
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: can't get no Satisfaction, which in some retellings he drowsily.

689
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 2: Sang on the tape too, just like mumbled.

690
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: Something about can't get anice satisfaction. I've heard two different

691
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,959
Speaker 1: versions of either just the riff or that he did sing.

692
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: I've never heard the sleep demo, as I choose to

693
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: call it. I would It's got to be in like

694
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: some kind of like fireproof safe somewhere, like do you

695
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: think it exists? I still I would like to think so,

696
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 1: because that's like very I want to believe it's really

697
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: high on my list of it belongs to the museum

698
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 1: type things. But oh for sure, I could also see

699
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: as like a twenty something year old musician on the

700
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: road with probably one, maybe two cassette tapes just like

701
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: just overdubbed it, especially with all of us snoring on it,

702
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: like because there's we'll talk about he really was not

703
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: all that taken with this riff or this song it took.

704
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: He's probably of everybody in the Stones, the person who

705
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: likes it the least, second.

706
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 2: Maybe to Brian Jones, I guess, but we'll.

707
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,439
Speaker 1: Get there, Sode I can't get no satisfaction line?

708
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 2: Where did that come from?

709
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: He's never explained the origin of the phrase himself, but

710
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: in a Rolling Stone magazine interview years later, Mick Jagger

711
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: theorized that Keith was probably influenced by Chuck Berry's Thirty Days,

712
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: which includes the lyric if I don't get no satisfaction

713
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: from the judge. Jagger explained Keith might have heard it

714
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: back then because it's not any way an English person

715
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: would have expressed it. Yeah, I'm not saying he purposely

716
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: nicked anything, but we played those records a lot. And

717
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: it's also been theorized that another inspiration for the line

718
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: was Muddy Water's nineteen forty eight song Ib's Troubled, which

719
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: contains the line I'm never being satisfied and I just

720
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: can't keep from crying.

721
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 2: I mean, Muddy Water is saying something about being satisfied

722
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 2: in like every one of his songs. He just loves

723
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 2: being satisfied or was constantly unsatisfied. That's true. Yeah, which

724
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: one are you? Let's not go there.

725
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: Keith has been very open about discussing the possibility that

726
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 1: artists are less composers than mediums channeling energy from beyond

727
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: you and I talk.

728
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 2: About this a lot.

729
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: Robert Hunter, the lyricists for The Grateful Dead, as fast

730
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: as the ped would pull you, pulled the idea.

731
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: Out of the ether.

732
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 1: But it's also worth noting that there's a surprisingly long

733
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: wiki list of art that supposedly sprung from dreams.

734
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 2: Oh, I bet you're gonna tell us about it, Yes,

735
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: i am.

736
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: There's a few here that surprised me.

737
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 2: Well, this first one didn't surprise me.

738
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: The most famous example to me as the Beatles guy,

739
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 1: is Yesterday. In early nineteen sixty five, probably around the

740
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: same time that Keith had his satisfaction dream, Paul McCartney

741
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: woke up with the tune to Yesterday in his head.

742
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 2: You just can't give them anything. No, we don't know.

743
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: Which one came first, though, we don't know. I mean, honestly,

744
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: if history he's anything to go by, the Beatles probably

745
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: did it first.

746
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 2: I begrudgingly concede that parts yes, yes, yes, yeah.

747
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney was living in a little artist garrett on

748
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: the top floor of his girlfriend at the time, Jane

749
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: Asher's family's house, and he had a little spin it

750
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: piano by the bed, and he just rolled out of

751
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: bed and kind of found the chords to what became Yesterday,

752
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: And he was so convinced that he'd stolen it from

753
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: an old jazz.

754
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 2: Tune because his dad really loved old jazz.

755
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: Songs and played piano around the house, that he compulsively

756
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: played the song to anyone and everyone who would listen,

757
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: asking if they knew what this was. And he famously

758
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: used the working title Scrambled Eggs as the dummy lyrics

759
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: when he sang this around to people said.

760
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 2: He yesterday was scrambled eggs.

761
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: Years later, he admitted that the lyrics were probably a

762
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: lot of processing is grief around his late mother. He

763
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: once made fun of the way she spoke, which he

764
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: regretted the rest of his life. And he reflected on

765
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: the line said something wrong. Now I long for yesterday

766
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 1: as maybe having its origins in that trauma. So yeah,

767
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: dreams way we process unresolved feelings, un resolved issues. Trauma

768
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: is a very real possibility that Yesterday sprung from that

769
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: and we got a second Paul McCartney entry on this list.

770
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 2: Aren't you lucky?

771
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 3: Jesus Christ.

772
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: Singing which let it Be?

773
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney has also claimed that the idea for let

774
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 1: It Be came to him after a dream.

775
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: Do you think it's just kind of his go to

776
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 2: explanation when he gets tired of actually talking about how

777
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 2: he wrote the song, Oh, dream one, there was another

778
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 2: dream one right there? Let me stop you right there dream.

779
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: He does get weird about talking about where these songs

780
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 1: came from. There is a n iHeart podcast actually where

781
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 1: you know the Paul McCartney lyrics book that came out

782
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: a few years ago where he goes like really deep

783
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: into They took tapes from those interviews and made a

784
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: podcast out of it, and it's actually really well done,

785
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,839
Speaker 1: and that's kind of the most in depth I heard

786
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: him talk about truly what he was thinking of when

787
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: he wrote specific lines. It's all my heart, so uh,

788
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: it's worth checking out. But yeah, let it be. He

789
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: said he had a dream where his mother came to

790
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: him during a really tense period when the Beatles were

791
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: starting to split up, and he said, it was great

792
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: to visit with her again. I felt very blessed to

793
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: have that dream, so that got me writing let it Be.

794
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 2: Unfortunately I made fun of her voice again and she

795
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 2: hasn't spoken to me since.

796
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: Terrible.

797
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 2: I'm an awful person.

798
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: In the dream, she supposedly offered words of comfort to

799
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: her son that culminated in the phrase for anyone who

800
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: looks like him.

801
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,439
Speaker 2: That's actually where they got the line in Training Day

802
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: from is the unpublished part of his dream about his mom.

803
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: She said, King Kong ain't got on me. You let

804
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 2: those motherfuckers be, Paul, I'm gonna put papers on every

805
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: single one of them, on every single one.

806
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: You Another work of art that was supposedly inspired by

807
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: a dream. I didn't know this Mary Shelley's eighteen eighteen

808
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: book Frankenstein. Did you know this?

809
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 2: I did not. I mean I know that it was

810
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: at this whole artist institute and like artist retreat or

811
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 2: whatever they're doing, like channeling, and you know she was

812
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 2: married to Percy B. Shelley at the time. And yeah,

813
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: she knocked it out of the park. She made like

814
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 2: the first essentially the first science fiction novel in you know, Jules,

815
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: like fifty years later, sixty years later. Yeah, you're right, yeah, yeah,

816
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 2: And but I don't know what were you gonna say

817
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 2: about it? Something less cool?

818
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: It was less cool. But these are her words, so

819
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 1: they that makes them more cool. It's a quote from her.

820
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: She said. When I placed my head upon my pillow,

821
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: I did not sleep, nor could I be said to think.

822
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 1: My imagination unbidden, possessed and guided me, gifting the successive

823
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: images that arose in my mind with a vividness, far

824
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 1: on the usual bounds of reverie. I saw the pale

825
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: student of unhollowed arts, kneeling beside the thing he had

826
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: put together. I saw the hideous phantasm of a man

827
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: stretched out, and then on the working of some powerful engine,

828
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: show signs of life and stir with an uneasy, half

829
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,399
Speaker 1: vital motion. Frightful must it be? For supremely frightful would

830
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: be the effect of any human endeavor to mock the

831
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 1: stupendous creator of the world.

832
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 2: Tell you what does you? Didn't dream? An editor really

833
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 2: thought that was great? No? No, I mean I've have

834
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 2: you ever read the actual Franken sign?

835
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think I read as a kid, like

836
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 1: an abridged version that I thought was.

837
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: The real thing. And then because the actual version is

838
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 2: so much talking. That's why it's so damn funny that

839
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 2: the monster in popular consciousness is this mute, a hulking beast.

840
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: Because Frankenstein's monster in that book chatty. He's a real

841
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 2: chatty bitch pill chatterbox. Well, have you been dead for

842
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 2: a while, you probably have things to say too. Yeah.

843
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 2: Do you think it's like every single body part was

844
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 2: sending him memories that he had to talk about? Oh

845
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: my god, that's an incredible thought.

846
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: Wow, that's great, that's that bit. Yeah, we got a Oh,

847
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: if you were a loved one.

848
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: I think of writing a screenplay with that. Don't verbal

849
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 2: copyright or.

850
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: If you have thoughts on that. Wow, somebody sent me

851
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: because I guess they wanted to make me cry. This

852
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: woman was getting married and her young son had died

853
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: and his heart he was an organ doner, and his

854
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 1: heart had been put in another little boy. And then

855
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: this little boy surprised her on her wedding day.

856
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: Oh God, listened to.

857
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: Her little boy's heartbeat before she walked.

858
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 2: Down the aisle. Yeah that's crushing.

859
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, big time. Yeah. Somebody sent that to me today.

860
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: And now it's your problem. Lists I can't take the

861
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: burden alone. From Frank and Simon, we go to Twilight.

862
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: The inspiration for Stephanie Meyer's book series came in a dream.

863
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: She said. It was two people in a kind of

864
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: little circular meadow with really bright sunlight, and one of

865
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: them was a beautiful, sparkly boy, and one of them

866
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: was just a girl who was human and normal, and

867
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: they were having this conversation. The boy was a vampire,

868
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: which is so bizarre that I'd be dreaming about vampires,

869
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 1: And he was trying to explain to her how much

870
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: you cared about her and yet at the same time

871
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: how much you wanted to kill her. Who among us?

872
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? What I was I gonna say, Oh yeah. David

873
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 2: Lynch in his book Catching the Big Fish, which is

874
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,919
Speaker 2: all about transcendental meditation, he talks about in there he'd

875
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 2: been napping in his trailer and then like went out

876
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 2: into the parking lot and put his hand on the

877
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 2: hood of a car without realizing how hot it was,

878
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 2: and the second he realized how hot it was and

879
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: yanked his hand off. He says that this scene in

880
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 2: the diner from Mulholland Drive where they guy explains his

881
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 2: nightmare and he goes out and goes behind the you

882
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 2: get that great jump scare when the creeping bag lady

883
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 2: jumps out from behind the dumpster, that all came to

884
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 2: him like at that moment, fully formed, which I just

885
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 2: think is such a it's ever happened to me. But

886
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: I'm happy it happened to David.

887
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: I mean that makes sense though, Like that would be.

888
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 2: A horrifying thing to pop out of your dream.

889
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: Ohyah. That it was just like a visual representation of

890
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: like that shock of like the physical shock. That's really

891
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: interesting to me. Huh. I don't think we touched on

892
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: this on our Christmas Songs grab Bag episode, but a

893
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: little town of Bethlehem was also at least the music

894
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: for it also came from a dream. The American musician

895
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: Lewis Redner wrote the tune into a Little Town of

896
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: Bethlehem in December eighteen sixty eight, at the request of

897
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: an Episcopal clergyman who had written the lyrics already. Redner

898
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: had not written the tune on the night before he

899
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: was scheduled to rehearse it, which God bless this man.

900
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: According to his account, he was quote roused from sleep

901
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: late in the night, hearing an angel strain whispering in

902
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: my ear, and seizing a piece of music paper, I

903
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 1: jotted down the treble of the tune as we now

904
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,399
Speaker 1: have it, and on Sunday morning, before going to church,

905
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: I filled in the harmony. I used to do that

906
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: when I was in screenwriting school and we really had

907
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: strict deadlines about finishing scripts and stuff.

908
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 2: And I just was like out, I had no idea

909
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 2: where to go next. I would usually go to sleep,

910
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 2: and then I would.

911
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: Sleep really poorly, but I would wake up usually with

912
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: whatever needed to happen next kind of already there.

913
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 2: Interesting.

914
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also like, I remember, do you ever do

915
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: this because you're you have whatever freaky thing I do.

916
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 1: And you can extrapolate on that and whichever way you wish.

917
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: I remember, I like turned it in like a really

918
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 1: long article, and then I went to bed, I like

919
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: emailed it in, and then I in the middle of

920
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: the night, I was like, oh, page six, paragraph nine,

921
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: there's a typo there. And I went in and there

922
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: it was. And it was like.

923
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 2: I tortured myself in my sleep, is what I'm saying. Well,

924
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 2: there's a great there's a great scene in the in

925
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 2: the Wire where one of the I think it's in

926
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 2: the fifth season, the one newspaper editor does exactly that.

927
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, He like calls downstairs to the page.

928
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 2: He like wakes up, goes downstairs, calls the paper and

929
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 2: like asks them about a comma or says like something's

930
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 2: errant and they're like, no, this was actually correct, just

931
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 2: your average run of the mill. He calls it like

932
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 2: night before printing editor nightmare or something like that. I

933
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 2: just thought, was it's a great touch.

934
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: I didn't know this. The song Black Sabbath apparently came

935
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 1: to Geezer Butler in a dream or a nightmare, I

936
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: should say, he had a nightmare that he encountered a

937
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 1: tall black figure at the edge of his bed, gazing

938
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 1: at him. It was probably aussy. After he woke up,

939
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: the book on the Occult that he'd been reading prior

940
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 1: to his nightmare had mysteriously vanished from his room. Again,

941
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: probably aussy. He later told the band about his experience

942
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: and recorded both of.

943
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 2: You to assume that Ozzie was literate at this point, respectfully,

944
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:00,839
Speaker 2: but come on.

945
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,439
Speaker 1: Now. Brian May said that he wrote the Queen song

946
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: The Prophet Song nineteen seventy five Queen Song after a

947
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,240
Speaker 1: hepatitis induced fever dream he had about an apocalyptic flood.

948
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 2: Okay, you must have.

949
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 1: Known this, but I had no idea. James Cameron's said

950
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 1: that he dreamed the Terminator. He said he had a

951
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: soaring fever when he was sick and dead broke in Rome,

952
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: Italy during the final cut of Piranha.

953
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 2: II that he was directing great film.

954
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: He dreamed of quote a chrome skeleton emerging from a fire,

955
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: and made some sketches on hotel stationary Upon waking. He said,

956
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: the first sketch I did showed a metal skeleton cut

957
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 1: in half at the waist, crawling over a tile floor

958
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,879
Speaker 1: using a large kitchen knife. To pull itself forward while

959
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: reaching out with the other hand extremely metal in the

960
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: second drawing the characters threatening a crawling woman minus the

961
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: kitchen knife. These images became the finale of The Terminator

962
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: almost exactly good for him? Yeah, and didn't Terminator two.

963
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: I want to say the plot was loosely inspired by

964
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: a MDMA trip he like listened to. Uh, he listened

965
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: to one of Sting's albums about like built the Russians

966
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: hug their kids too or something.

967
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 2: I don't know, you're you're pulling for me, but we

968
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 2: will do T two. Oh yeah, because it's the best

969
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 2: action movie up there.

970
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: Wait, I need to find this. Keep talking about T two?

971
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 2: Oh well, I mean how much time he got? Yeah?

972
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 2: What do you want me to say about it? Actually,

973
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 2: the only thing that I don't like about that movie

974
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 2: is poor Eddie Furlong, who was just like, you know,

975
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 2: he's a child actor, so it's tough, but it's just

976
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 2: so annoying in that movie.

977
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: Yes.

978
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 3: Yes.

979
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: In a recent thirtieth anniversary oral history of Terminator Too,

980
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: James Cameron admitted that he was on ecstasy when he

981
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,839
Speaker 1: conceived that the plot of the film. Yeah, he told

982
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: the ringer, I remember sitting there once high on writing

983
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,720
Speaker 1: notes for terminator, and I was struck by sting song.

984
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: I hope the Russians love their children too, And I thought,

985
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: you know what, the idea of nuclear war is just

986
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: so anithetical to life itself. That's where the kid came from.

987
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,800
Speaker 1: Why was he doing ecstasy just to feel something?

988
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, he hadn't gone in a large boat for a while.

989
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 4: No.

990
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 1: Wait, two more things that surprised me that supposedly came

991
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: from dreams. The periodic table. Did you know this?

992
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 2: Of course? Do you guys? Have you guys heard about this?

993
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: Please hear this. The chemist Dmitri Mendelev is said to

994
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 1: have invented the modern periodic table in a dream where

995
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: all the elements fell into place as required. Mendelev, a

996
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 1: chemistry professor and an added player of the card game solitaire.

997
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, had been attempting to clearly organize the elements,

998
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: which at the time were grouped either by atomic weight

999
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,720
Speaker 1: or by common properties. However, in Solitaire cards are arranged

1000
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: by suit horizontally and also by number vertically, and after

1001
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: three days of NonStop attempts to invent the periodic table,

1002
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: mendeleevs said to have fallen asleep, whereupon he promptly dreamt

1003
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: its structure based on Solitaire.

1004
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 2: That's nice.

1005
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: I also I didn't include this because it's been verified,

1006
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: but I also read that the modern sewing machine was

1007
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 1: supposedly inspired in a dream.

1008
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 2: Fascinating. Yeah.

1009
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're going to end on a real damp

1010
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: squib here.

1011
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 2: Salesforce.

1012
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: The user interface of Salesforce, the widely used enterprise software

1013
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: platform founded in nineteen ninety nine.

1014
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 2: Was inspired by a dream of its co founder, Mark Benioff,

1015
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 2: who owns our former employer, well, not people, but he

1016
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 2: owns Time magazine. Now I didn't know that, okay.

1017
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: Benioff envisioned application interface resembling that of Amazon, which included

1018
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: labeled tabs. Benioff said that in his dream, quote, I

1019
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: could see this app that looked like Amazon, and it

1020
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: said Contacts, Accounts, Opportunities, forecast reports at tabs. No one

1021
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,879
Speaker 1: had ever built enterprise software quite.

1022
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 2: Like like that, that quite before. Wow, what a huge

1023
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: moment for him, You rich guy, What did you expect

1024
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 2: me to say? There?

1025
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just thought about all these like deeply moving pieces.

1026
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 2: Of art, or like the periodic table, or like so

1027
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, oh yeah, the salesforce interfaced real cool story.

1028
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 2: What's your name? Doug? Bill? What was it Mark?

1029
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: Mark?

1030
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 2: No, Doug's better. As you meditate on that, we'll be

1031
00:52:53,920 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 2: right back with more too much information after these messages. Wow,

1032
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 2: things that didn't happen in dreams. A stay at the

1033
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 2: Fort Harrison Hotel in early May of what year, metthew

1034
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: sixty five, nineteen sixty five. Keith not really a fan

1035
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 2: of the song. He gave his jagger and as Mick

1036
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: would later say, I think Keith thought it was a

1037
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 2: bit basic. I don't think he really listened to it properly.

1038
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 2: He was too close to it and just felt like

1039
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 2: it was kind of a silly riff. Together, they posted

1040
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 2: up by the pool and Mick took shot at fleshing

1041
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 2: out the lyrics It was Born in Large Park. From

1042
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 2: the tensions of the tour, the crass commercialism of the

1043
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 2: loud TV ads came out in the line about the

1044
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 2: man on television telling him how white my shirts can be,

1045
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 2: but he can't be a man because he doesn't smoke

1046
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 2: the same cigarettes as me, a reference to the then

1047
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 2: ubiquitous Marble Marble cow Marvel marl Borough cowboy.

1048
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: Right, I have a fact I'd like to share go on,

1049
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 1: it's really just the name of the show. One of

1050
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: the original Marlborough Men, he was in ads in the fifties,

1051
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,839
Speaker 1: Robert C. Norris. He never smoked, and after twelve years

1052
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: as the Marlboro Man, he quit the role to avoid

1053
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 1: influencing children, and he lived until age ninety in twenty nineteen.

1054
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 2: Uh huh, good for him. Yeah. Anyway, they have this

1055
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 2: aggression of youth so that they'd seen writing at their concert.

1056
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 2: The general frustrations that arise while touring related to women, sleeping, arrangements, women, alcohol, women.

1057
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 2: One of the biggest lyrical inspirations likely came from Bob Dylan,

1058
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 2: who's Bringing It All Back Home had Hit Shells earlier

1059
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 2: that year. A photo from the time even shows Jagger

1060
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 2: lounging pool side and clear water, intently reading the album's

1061
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 2: back cover. Dylan at the time was shaking up songwriting,

1062
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 2: showing that lyrics could be deeply personal, cryptic, and rooted

1063
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 2: in lived experience. Less like storyteller, you're more like overhearing

1064
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 2: a private joke you're not quite in on. It was

1065
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 2: a move borrowed from the beat poets, a modernist sleight

1066
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 2: of hand that made songs feel like puzzles. By keeping

1067
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 2: things elusive, Dylan encouraged listeners to come back again and again.

1068
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 2: After all, a few things are more intriguing than a

1069
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 2: rock star is half told anecdote, the kind of story

1070
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 2: you're left to finish in your own head. Accordingly, satisfaction

1071
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 2: central figure is a thinly veiled version of Jagger himself,

1072
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 2: a young man already famous but bracing for superstardom, railing

1073
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 2: against the growing pressures of fame, consumerism, and societal expectations.

1074
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 2: I said we weren't going to pontificate earlier. I know,

1075
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I would have read this, Okay, go ahead.

1076
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 1: It's less a traditional song than a defiant stance, a

1077
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 1: crystallization of Jagger's public persona and his way of moving

1078
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:45,959
Speaker 1: through the world.

1079
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 2: The lyrics struck a nerve.

1080
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 1: Of the generation increasingly skeptical of authority in marketing, but

1081
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: beneath the sneer as a broader rebellion, a rejection of

1082
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 1: parental values, conventional wisdom, and the ever looming figure of

1083
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: capital t Capital am the man, a stand in for

1084
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: institutional control and discipline. It's the kind of attitude that,

1085
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: as later pop culture entities like School of Rock would

1086
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: argue feels like a generational mission resist at all costs.

1087
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 1: The fundamental dichotomy of the Stones, these you know, middle

1088
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 1: class white guys from England, can be summed up in

1089
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: the image of them writing this anti consumerist the Hell

1090
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 1: with the Man tirade while sitting around the swimming pool

1091
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: out of Florida hotel.

1092
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 2: That they are not paying for hypocrisy. Good for them.

1093
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: When I asked how he was able to write songs

1094
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 1: that connected so strongly to the zeitgeist, Jagger would later

1095
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 1: tell journalist Rich Cohen, It's about being a social animal.

1096
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 2: We're in an ant hill. We've got these antennas, I will.

1097
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: Say Jagger, having gone through like sixty hours of tapes

1098
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 1: with The Stones from nineteen seventy two for that podcast

1099
00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: I worked on Jagger divorced from like how he looks

1100
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 1: at how he presents himself when you just hear his words.

1101
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 2: Not a very articulate guy. I don't I've never thought

1102
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 2: he was a good lyricist. I mean, like, do people

1103
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 2: like get rolling Stone arm tattoos or like that's a

1104
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 2: good point. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. Yeah,

1105
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 2: start me up. I got start me up and the

1106
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 2: name of my mom because you know, and then the

1107
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 2: day that I was born, because that's when she started

1108
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 2: me up. So wow, my rolling Stone tattoo the lips there,

1109
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 2: that's true. Yeah, yeah, I guess you could. I'm trying

1110
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 2: to think of other sympathy for the Devil's pretty good.

1111
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 2: That's like probably one of the few that I would

1112
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 2: give him credit for actually being a good song. Yeah,

1113
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 2: but it's such an old trope, you know, I know,

1114
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,439
Speaker 2: but it's like, but but you know, how many people

1115
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 2: had read Master and Margarita at that point, or like

1116
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:57,439
Speaker 2: had gotten these different you know, gotten any like even

1117
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 2: stringing something as a narrative together like that, Like that's

1118
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 2: like the idea of like the Eternal Warrior or whatever.

1119
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 2: You know, we wouldn't even get that until years later

1120
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 2: with Rolling the Heads and Headless Thompson Gunner, Wow, Warren and

1121
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 2: by Warren. Yeah, I'll give him that one. What else

1122
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 2: would I give him? That's okay?

1123
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's okay.

1124
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 2: Moonlight Mile, it's kind of got some nice imagery, I

1125
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 2: guess Wild Horses, Uh well, I THNK.

1126
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 1: Graham Parsons ghost write a lot of that.

1127
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1128
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 3: I was up.

1129
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 1: I was touring the hard rock vaults many years ago,

1130
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 1: and the head archivist became a friend of mine, and

1131
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 1: he was a really brilliant guy.

1132
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 2: He's a really brilliant guy.

1133
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: And one of the things he was most excited to

1134
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: show me was Grand Parsons Diaries, in which he had

1135
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: written an early version of Wild Horses and and he

1136
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 1: was very excitedly saying, you know, you don't you understand,

1137
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 1: like this change is rock history. This is like shows

1138
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 1: proves because Graham Parsons, the famous country rock pioneer, was

1139
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: a very close friend of Keith Richards before before he

1140
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: died of a heroin overdose and his body stolen and

1141
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 1: set on fire.

1142
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 2: But that's another episode.

1143
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was always theorized that Graham Parsons played

1144
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: a role in writing that song, but this was like

1145
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 1: pretty definitive proof that he he wrote a great deal

1146
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: of it.

1147
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 2: How about that?

1148
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm not giving that one to Mick or Keith.

1149
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: That's fairy.

1150
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 2: I always liked.

1151
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: The lyrics, probably for the same reason of like the

1152
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: Dylan role that we talked about earlier, where it feels

1153
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: like you're in like a joke that you're not you're

1154
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: hearing a joke you're not in on. I always liked

1155
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 1: you can't always get what you want, just because it

1156
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: was so specific. It scans so well, but I very

1157
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 1: rarely knew what any of it meant.

1158
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. That's just kind of generic to me,

1159
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 2: maybe maybe fitting the specific definition you're talking about. I

1160
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 2: kind of I would always get that from like play

1161
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 2: with Fire. It's just like, what for you people talking

1162
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 2: about all of these different locations and names in England,

1163
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 2: anything else good that they've written, Torn and Freed has

1164
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 2: kind of a oh yeah, nice narrative to it. Got

1165
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 2: a session guitarist coat. That's it. I don't feel like

1166
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 2: talking about this any much longer. Okay, So and you.

1167
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 1: Know what, that's okay, that's okay.

1168
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 2: If you find one, get back to me.

1169
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 1: Well, now, I'd like to talk about the Fort Harrison

1170
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: Hotel where the stones were staying Jordan.

1171
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 2: Please.

1172
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: The fact that it's the origin of one of the

1173
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: most iconic rock songs in history. We more than enough

1174
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 1: to put the Fort Harrison Hotel on the Florida Registry

1175
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 1: of Historic Sites, and yet, and yet there's so much

1176
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 1: more of the history of this building is so much weirder.

1177
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 1: It was built in nineteen twenty six and managed by

1178
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 1: Ransom Olds, incredibly named Ransom Olds, the namesake of the

1179
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 1: Oldsmobile and to markets opening the Daredevil, Henry Rowland climbed

1180
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: the exterior in a blindfold.

1181
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 2: Which is pretty bad ass.

1182
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 1: And for a time it's where the Philadelphia Phillies would

1183
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: stay when they were doing spring training in Clearwater. Okay,

1184
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 1: but then, but then, but then strap in, folks. The

1185
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: building was later purchased by the Church of Scientology and

1186
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 1: since nineteen seventy five it served as the main building

1187
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 1: of the church's chief campus in.

1188
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 2: Clearwater where they do nothing wrong, called flag Land Base.

1189
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 2: It must be said, I don't want them around me

1190
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 2: in my house. Yes, they've done nothing wrong.

1191
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 1: Ever, Clearwater is basically like the Washington d C.

1192
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 2: Of Scientology.

1193
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: So this hotel where the Stones wrote Satisfaction is essentially

1194
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: the White House of Scientology. I think I have that right.

1195
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 1: If I don't, I'm sure I will hear. Is that weird?

1196
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 2: That is a horrifying thing to you think of as

1197
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 2: something that exists. That's really weird. Washington d C. Of

1198
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 2: Scientology being in Clearwater, Florida.

1199
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: I remember seeing It might have been in the Going

1200
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 1: Cleared Alex Gibney documentary on HBO from a maybe I

1201
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe a decade ago now. I think I

1202
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: remember hearing that they've basically slowly been buying up real

1203
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: estate and clear water for I mean fifty years now. Yeah. Yeah,

1204
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 1: that's been kind of their home base. I'm not really

1205
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 1: sure totally why it might be. I was going to say,

1206
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 1: might be for tax reasons, but they don't need to

1207
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 1: worry about that, per Wikipedia, which for legal reasons I

1208
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 1: want to read from directly. The Fort Harrison Hotel has

1209
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 1: been the site of at least three suspicious deaths since

1210
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, when scientology took over the premises, most

1211
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 1: notably the death of Lisa McPherson, who died on December fifth,

1212
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five, after spending seventeen days in room one

1213
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: seven to four of.

1214
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 2: The building, or maybe she didn't.

1215
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: The official reported cause of death was a blood clot

1216
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 1: cause by dehydration and bed rest.

1217
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 2: She rested to death. Oh my God, the dream.

1218
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 1: The church later challenged the finding of the autopsy in

1219
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:15,680
Speaker 1: court years before. In February nineteen eighty, a scientologist named

1220
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 1: Josephus A. Havinith was found dead at the Fort Harrison Hotel.

1221
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: He was discovered in a bathtub filled with water hot

1222
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: enough to have burned his skin off. Oh this is

1223
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: still a quote from Wikipedia. By the way, the official

1224
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 1: reported cause of death was drowning, although the coroner noted

1225
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 1: that when he was found Haneth's head was not submerged.

1226
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: In August nineteen eighty eight, scientologist Hubert Faff died of

1227
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 1: a seizure in the Fort Harrison Hotel. He had recently

1228
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 1: stopped taking his seizure medication in favor of a vitamin program.

1229
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 2: Oh boy, it's.

1230
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: Worth noting that in nineteen ninety seven, this is still

1231
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 1: a quote. Clearwater Police received over one hundred and sixty

1232
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 1: emergency calls from the Fort Harrison Hotel all but they

1233
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 1: were denied entry into the hotel by Scientology security. If

1234
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 1: you want to know more, you all can google it yourselves.

1235
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 2: And get on the same watch list. Jordan is now fascinating.

1236
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the vibes in that place must be rancid,

1237
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 1: because I do believe there is something vaguely satanic about

1238
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 1: the stones.

1239
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 2: Well, you know, like the Robert Johnson continuum. Yeah. Sure, yeah.

1240
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: Well, oh yeah, you're gonna have you're gonna have something,

1241
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 1: you have some satan.

1242
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, though, I feel

1243
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 2: like I feel like British blues guitarists would be like

1244
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 2: better if they had figured out how to sell their souls.

1245
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 1: You know. I think it's the conversion rate from the

1246
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 1: pounds to souls.

1247
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,440
Speaker 2: Oh it just doesn't they get like a yeah, they

1248
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 2: get like a discounted, they get guitar skills. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1249
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 2: that's the tariffs you know in this economy.

1250
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 1: Selling my soul.

1251
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 2: That's a terrible that's a terrible bit son.

1252
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: Oh well, the non Glimmer twin rolling Stones aka the

1253
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 1: not as good ones got their first satisfied. Yes, they

1254
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 1: are very much the rest man. Which one's Gilligan in

1255
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 1: which island's a skipper? I mean, Keith is probably Gilligan

1256
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 1: and the skipper's probably mixed.

1257
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 2: Right, this is your area of expertise. Sure, no it's not, Yes,

1258
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 2: it is.

1259
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 1: Which one seems like more of a dumb ass and

1260
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 1: which one seems more like an uptight control free I mean, oh.

1261
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean okay, but I think Jagger, honestly, I

1262
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 2: think Jagger by the like certainly in an exile and

1263
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 2: stuff was just flying in to do his vocals.

1264
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that was Keith's. But that was like the

1265
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 1: one time Keith was in control divers Yeah pretty much. Yeah,

1266
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: actually really the only time.

1267
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 2: I think, uh, Mick is mary Anne. Do you know

1268
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:12,479
Speaker 2: thay they used to do the rest of the Stones

1269
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 2: used to call him debor have you ever heard that?

1270
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:16,880
Speaker 2: That sounds familiar?

1271
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: But I thought that was like a like an Elton

1272
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 1: John Freddie Mercury, like how they all or Rod Stewart

1273
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: where they all called each other like drag names essentially.

1274
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm not sure who was that. I thought they

1275
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:28,800
Speaker 2: were just making fun of him because he was, you know,

1276
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 2: kind of a ponce. That's the perfect word. That's the

1277
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 2: perfect word.

1278
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 1: Yes, Now I should have brushed up on that Rolling

1279
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 1: Stone show. I did, because I remember there were a

1280
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 1: lot of really funny interpersonal dynamics because yeah, they they

1281
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: were messy, messy people. They were mesches, yes, yes, yes

1282
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:46,919
Speaker 1: they were.

1283
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. You gotta put in a proper plug for that show.

1284
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 1: I'll put it in the episode description if anyone's to

1285
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:57,439
Speaker 1: hear fourteen or fifteen hours about a single Rolling Stones tour.

1286
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 1: Although we did do like two episodes about them recording

1287
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 1: exile on Main Street, and those are pretty good, but.

1288
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 2: Yeah they are. Those are the ones I listened to. Yeah, yeah,

1289
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 2: it's okay.

1290
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 1: So yes, the non Glimmer Twins Rolling Stones got their

1291
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,959
Speaker 1: first listen to Satisfaction in their hotel rooms at.

1292
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 2: The Fort Harrison Hotel in Clearwater, Florida.

1293
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 1: At this stage, Satisfaction was a folky acoustic dirge. Dirge

1294
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 1: is that inherently like pejorative. There's never it's never like

1295
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: a positive I think.

1296
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 2: So there's very many you don't Yeah, you typically don't

1297
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 2: hear about a lot of like upbeat dirges. Yeah, I mean,

1298
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 2: I'm sure technically there are some in like the history

1299
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 2: of Orion, yeah, or just like really slow bock pieces there.

1300
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 2: Even though they were about death, it's probably like considered

1301
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 2: like a laudatory thing, yeah, because it's like, well, we're

1302
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 2: going to be together again. It's a crocish by the way,

1303
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 2: you just were on the ground.

1304
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 1: So neither Mick nor Keith saw much potential in this

1305
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 1: nascent version of Satisfaction as a single, and certainly not

1306
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 1: a hit. Bill Wyman, the bass player for the Stones,

1307
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:03,959
Speaker 1: wrote Keith's instinct must have told him it was worth

1308
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,880
Speaker 1: some effort, though, because he kept working on it. On

1309
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 1: May tenth, four days after completing the lyrics, the band

1310
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 1: ventured to Chess Records during their tour stop in Chicago.

1311
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 1: We mentioned this earlier for Blues Officionados from Britain. This

1312
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: was very much like visiting the Holy Land. This is

1313
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 1: the room where Muddy Waters had laid down his thunderous riffs.

1314
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 1: Holland Wolf growled into the mic, and Chuck Berry reshaped

1315
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:29,600
Speaker 1: rhythm and blues into something electric and new. And it

1316
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 1: was here, by their idol's ghosts, that The Stones first

1317
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 1: attempted to capture satisfaction on tape and failed, and failed

1318
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 1: failed miserably.

1319
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it didn't go well.

1320
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 1: It was at the end of a nine hour session

1321
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: where they cut the songs try Me, That's how Strong

1322
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:47,559
Speaker 1: My Love Is, the under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man,

1323
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: and Mercy Mercy.

1324
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:52,719
Speaker 2: Which one of those song titles does not belong. Yeah. Yeah,

1325
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 2: what was that other one? Was that like an attempt

1326
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 2: at doing like a Kinks title?

1327
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, actually pretty much. Yeah, the under Assistant West Coast

1328
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:03,679
Speaker 1: Promotion Man, that's exactly. Yeah, you know, it's a good song,

1329
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 1: though Yeah manager producer Andrew loug Oldham later described this

1330
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:11,440
Speaker 1: early version of Satisfaction as quote.

1331
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 2: Acoustic wayward Harmonica Leyden.

1332
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:17,520
Speaker 1: It just would not do the hook registered as marginal

1333
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 1: to nout What does knaut mean?

1334
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 2: Naw T never seen that word. Oh that's an angler,

1335
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 2: that's like I think that like that like but w

1336
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:30,799
Speaker 2: T I think maybe the it's like Yorkshire dialect.

1337
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, so like non existent basically yes, Ok. Jagger

1338
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 1: and Richards were very nearly ready to abandon the song altogether,

1339
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:43,519
Speaker 1: but Oldham urged them to keep after it. They try

1340
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 1: to get a few days later, when the tour brought

1341
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:47,599
Speaker 1: them to Los Angeles, they were hold up at RCA

1342
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 1: Studios with sound enginior David Hassinger and Phil Spector arranger

1343
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 1: Jack Nasch. Jack would prove crucial for coming up with

1344
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 1: the arrangement of the song that we Know on Love.

1345
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 1: He's kind of a legend in Stone circles. I think

1346
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:02,599
Speaker 1: he did did we do the arrangements for can Always

1347
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 1: Give You One? And maybe a street fighting man. He

1348
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,639
Speaker 1: definitely stayed involved with the Stones for a long time.

1349
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 1: In addition to working with Neil Young Yeah on his

1350
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: new Young album some of Buffalo Springfield too. I think

1351
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 1: the beautiful strings for Expecting to Fly we're done by him.

1352
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 1: I want to say, real, he's one of the few

1353
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:27,679
Speaker 1: Wall of Sound acolytes that really transcended the early sixties

1354
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 1: girl group phil Spector stuff and actually like did interesting stuff.

1355
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:33,800
Speaker 1: I think he did the soundtrack to one flu of

1356
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:37,480
Speaker 1: the Cougo's Nest too, with the rob of Native American instrumentation.

1357
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:41,120
Speaker 1: And I want to say he wrote low lifts us

1358
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:45,679
Speaker 1: up where we belong? I think hmm. Anyway, So Jack Niche,

1359
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:48,639
Speaker 1: for all of his arrangement prowess, he would prove crucial

1360
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 1: for coming up with the arrangement for satisfaction that made

1361
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:53,679
Speaker 1: it into the song that we now hold So dear

1362
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:57,439
Speaker 1: Jack Niche began the sessions by pounding out a new faster,

1363
01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:03,760
Speaker 1: aggressive tempo on the piano. Better faster or stronger, younger, younger, Yeah,

1364
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 1: and it was younger. Though the piano part was removed

1365
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:09,559
Speaker 1: from the final track, Andrew liul Golden, the producer, would

1366
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 1: claim this essentially established the groove of the song. And

1367
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 1: Jack also plays the tambourine, which remained on the final recording,

1368
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 1: which is pretty great. Like as far as tambourine parts go.

1369
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:21,599
Speaker 1: That's a pretty iconic one, you.

1370
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 2: Know, tambourin U tambourine is really a secret weapon. It

1371
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 2: had a lot of great songs. That's why the one

1372
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 2: thing that Brian Jonestown Massacre did right was have a

1373
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:33,880
Speaker 2: guy whose sole job was to play tambourine.

1374
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 1: I mean the Monkeys did too, but no, well it's

1375
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:41,240
Speaker 1: Stevie Diggs play guitar on stage.

1376
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 2: But she did play. I mean she played tambourine, but

1377
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:51,040
Speaker 2: she Okay, greatest tambourinists the guys on town, like any

1378
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:55,240
Speaker 2: black person who grew up in church, not Stevie Nicks.

1379
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Like great tambourine playing is an art, just

1380
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 2: putting your lead singer out there with something listlessly shake

1381
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:03,639
Speaker 2: because otherwise they feel like they aren't doing anything, which

1382
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 2: is true. That's an entirely different matter. That's a whole

1383
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 2: different color.

1384
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 1: How did your I said that when I was in

1385
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:12,760
Speaker 1: the was it of oz playing in high school?

1386
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 2: Is my line? I know you've told us that. I

1387
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:16,400
Speaker 2: think it's on record. It is.

1388
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:19,599
Speaker 1: You were when we were in your band, there were

1389
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 1: sometimes when you weren't playing guitar up front and you

1390
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 1: were just lead singer. Yeah, how was that like for you?

1391
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:27,479
Speaker 1: Did you have a preference? Seems stressful to like not

1392
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 1: have a thing.

1393
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 2: No, because I was just running around half the time.

1394
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 2: I did pick up tambourine because the only thing I

1395
01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:38,679
Speaker 2: can do is the double timeline, and I would often

1396
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 2: routinely peel vast swaths of my palm skin. I remember that,

1397
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 2: I do remember well doing that. So it's it's a

1398
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 2: hard it's a it's a get. You've got to beat

1399
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:50,839
Speaker 2: the out of your hand with it. It's a tricky instrument.

1400
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 2: But there's really I mean, like if you listen to

1401
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:55,639
Speaker 2: those early if you find like the stems of those

1402
01:12:55,680 --> 01:13:01,240
Speaker 2: Motown recordings, Yeah, here like actual like church gospel inspired

1403
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:08,040
Speaker 2: tambourine playing. That is just truly wonderful. So don't listen

1404
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 2: to Stevie Nicks for your tambo playing. Sorry, I'm sorry,

1405
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 2: young women out there.

1406
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 1: So they finally have the groove established for Satisfaction, Mick

1407
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 1: got his vocals in one take, but the backing track

1408
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 1: took much more.

1409
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:22,880
Speaker 2: Time to evolve.

1410
01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 1: Andrew lou Goldham will to compare this early version of

1411
01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 1: Satisfaction to the song walk Right In by the folk

1412
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 1: pop collective The rooftop singers.

1413
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:34,080
Speaker 2: It called for striped shirts, he.

1414
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 1: Said, real cream, basketball slacks and a timeout in other words,

1415
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 1: no grit. In the early morning of May twelfth, nineteen

1416
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,639
Speaker 1: sixty five, at the end of a fourteen hour session,

1417
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 1: Charlie Watts, drummer for the Stones, switched the tempo. After

1418
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 1: trying all sorts of different rhythmic accompaniments.

1419
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:57,720
Speaker 2: Charlie branded on the simplest one.

1420
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 1: Which he borrowed from Roy Orbison's Pretty Woman.

1421
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,680
Speaker 2: And there was another motown song, Uptight Everything's all right,

1422
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 2: no No.

1423
01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:18,000
Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder borrowed that from the Stones song Oh interesting, okay,

1424
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 1: which is why when Stevie Wonder went out with the

1425
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:24,000
Speaker 1: Stones on their nineteen seventy two tour as their opening act,

1426
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 1: he would come out on stage when they did Satisfaction

1427
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 1: and sometimes they would do a medley that went between

1428
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:31,719
Speaker 1: Uptight and sa which if you could find his bootlegs

1429
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 1: of that on YouTube, Damn, I mean The Stones with

1430
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder rules, it's incredible.

1431
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, didn't he also get booed off stage at a

1432
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:40,639
Speaker 2: lot of those shows because people were racist.

1433
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 1: Not a lot of the shows, actually not really, No,

1434
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:49,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't that he didn't get booed. I think the

1435
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:53,599
Speaker 1: closest that they came was in Boston because the Stones

1436
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 1: had gotten arrested in Rhode Island and like hours before

1437
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:01,200
Speaker 1: the show was supposed to begin, and the show went

1438
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:04,000
Speaker 1: forward thinking that they would get out of jail in time,

1439
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 1: and they weren't, And so they were in jail when

1440
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:09,799
Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder was as their opening act was on stage,

1441
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:14,559
Speaker 1: and they were basically just like stretch, stretch, after god

1442
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 1: knows how long on stage. The audience was like, all right,

1443
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 1: we get it, Now where's the Stones, And then they

1444
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 1: started getting hostile and then see.

1445
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:27,960
Speaker 2: Right before the busing stuff, Yeah, they don't really do

1446
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:28,600
Speaker 2: too well with that.

1447
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:30,680
Speaker 1: No, no, So Stevie was like, I don't need this

1448
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 1: some Stevie Wonder, so he left the stage, and then

1449
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 1: people with Boston just just it was in the summer too.

1450
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 1: They're just cooking in the old garden waiting for the

1451
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 1: Stones to come. They had to get the mayor of

1452
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 1: Boston to put in a personal appeal to the governor

1453
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:46,639
Speaker 1: of Rhode Island. They're like, please, we're gonna have a riot.

1454
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:51,040
Speaker 1: My city's already on fire because of various I forget

1455
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:55,600
Speaker 1: which specific racially motivated riot for at that moment, but

1456
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 1: just too many to keep seriously. Yeah, in the early

1457
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 1: to mid seventies. Yeah, so I think that's kind of

1458
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:06,719
Speaker 1: the closest to Stevie ever being blewed God forbid. So Yeah. Anyway,

1459
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:11,519
Speaker 1: when drummer Charlie Watts hit upon the extremely steady rock Solid,

1460
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 1: he says, hoping that you don't correct him. Uh, pretty woman.

1461
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 2: Rip.

1462
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 1: That's when things began to fall into place.

1463
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:21,240
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't have my phone over here. Oh no

1464
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 2: I do. Let's see. Let's be about No, I'm going

1465
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:28,400
Speaker 2: to see. I'm going to see if the if satisfaction

1466
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:33,479
Speaker 2: ends at the same tempo. Oh, that's interesting. Like every

1467
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:38,680
Speaker 2: other Rolling Stone song, it in fact speeds up by

1468
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 2: anywhere from five to ten clicks. All right, we're starting

1469
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 2: off in between around one thirty four, one thirty six. Yeah,

1470
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:48,839
Speaker 2: I was I was wrong. Good credit to Charlie stays

1471
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 2: within a couple beats the whole time. Good for him,

1472
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 2: do it his job.

1473
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:58,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's one job, alrip Charlie.

1474
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you would have hated or like ri Ip Charlie,

1475
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 2: you would have hated five year olds who can play

1476
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:16,000
Speaker 2: drums better than your own TikTok oh kim, all these

1477
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:19,280
Speaker 2: British drummers who were like, I'm really jazz drummer? Like,

1478
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 2: are you deaf? Do you hear the difference between what

1479
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:25,120
Speaker 2: you play and what black people play? Like you get

1480
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:29,160
Speaker 2: the out of here. You're not a jazz drummer. You're

1481
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:33,680
Speaker 2: a toddler. You've wandered into a room a conversation. You

1482
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:37,120
Speaker 2: have absolutely no context for claiming that you are. You

1483
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 2: have facility in this fat here?

1484
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:44,080
Speaker 1: Where were we that Walter subject talk?

1485
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 2: Some of it was a bit of big lebousek. Yeah.

1486
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:50,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting to note I mentioned this earlier as

1487
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 1: a fourteen hour session that yielded satisfaction off of Stephen Davis,

1488
01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:59,679
Speaker 1: who probably most famous for writing the legendary led Zeppelin

1489
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:02,879
Speaker 1: ton Hammer of the Gods. In his book Old Gods

1490
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:06,480
Speaker 1: Almost Dead about the Rolling Stones, says that La Sceinsters

1491
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:11,200
Speaker 1: brought cocaine to the session, a first in Stone's history. Oh,

1492
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:15,479
Speaker 1: he's kind of he's kind of famously sillacious and not

1493
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:19,439
Speaker 1: always the most trustworthy. But if this is true, it

1494
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:21,840
Speaker 1: certainly would not be the last session that cocaine was

1495
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:22,919
Speaker 1: used at for the Stones.

1496
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's quite funny, because I wonder if

1497
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 2: you can then chart Charlie's rushing in real time. Oh

1498
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:38,639
Speaker 2: my god, following the introduction of cocaine into his particular toxology. Yes,

1499
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:40,280
Speaker 2: good for him.

1500
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 1: Well, the thick enough the guitar riff, with Keith already

1501
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:46,280
Speaker 1: knew was the heart of the song. He dispatched ancillary

1502
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:50,880
Speaker 1: Stone Ian Stewart, who honestly deserves an episode of his own,

1503
01:18:51,200 --> 01:18:54,040
Speaker 1: to a nearby music store Wallack's Music City to find

1504
01:18:54,080 --> 01:18:56,840
Speaker 1: something that could do the trick. We should we should

1505
01:18:56,840 --> 01:18:59,320
Speaker 1: talk about Ian Stewart for a second. In Stewart was

1506
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 1: original Rolling Stone. The Rolling Stones originally had six members.

1507
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 1: He was the piano and when Andrew loul Goldham came

1508
01:19:06,439 --> 01:19:08,639
Speaker 1: into the picture to be the Stones manager, he basically

1509
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:11,400
Speaker 1: was like, six people's too many for a band. Five

1510
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:15,200
Speaker 1: is already kind of pushing it, and you don't look

1511
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 1: like the others. Ian was like, I want to say,

1512
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:19,519
Speaker 1: like ten years older than the other guys, and like

1513
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:22,720
Speaker 1: very square jawed, and like he just looks like like

1514
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:25,440
Speaker 1: a trucker. Basically, he's like, you don't look the part.

1515
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:29,120
Speaker 1: You are no longer a stone. We're gonna find like

1516
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:31,840
Speaker 1: roady jobs for you to do. He's a big guy

1517
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:34,920
Speaker 1: and you can like back them on stage on piano

1518
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 1: if you want, but like you're not a stone. And

1519
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:40,920
Speaker 1: instead of basically saying go to hell, he was like, Okay, cool,

1520
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:42,120
Speaker 1: I love these guys.

1521
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:43,400
Speaker 2: And like I just went to hang out with my mates.

1522
01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:46,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like make a not a huge living, but

1523
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:50,120
Speaker 1: a decent living, like lugging their stuff around and like

1524
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:53,400
Speaker 1: sometimes playing ogi wiggie piano on stage from me.

1525
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:53,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1526
01:19:53,960 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 1: Yeah. So he was sent to get something for Keith

1527
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:01,200
Speaker 1: at this music store to make the guitar riffs sound thicker.

1528
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:04,320
Speaker 1: This was the early days of guitar pedals, and he

1529
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:08,360
Speaker 1: came back with something called a Gibson Maestro buzz box,

1530
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:12,759
Speaker 1: which distorted Keith's guitar. Keith later told Guitar Player Magazine

1531
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:15,480
Speaker 1: it was a miracle. I was screaming for more distortion.

1532
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:18,640
Speaker 1: This rift's really got a hang hard and long. That

1533
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:21,080
Speaker 1: was just like constant thing he would say during the session.

1534
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 1: This riffs got a hang hard and long. We burnt

1535
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:27,200
Speaker 1: the amps up and turned everything up, and it still

1536
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 1: wasn't right. And then Ian Stuart ran around the corner

1537
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:32,760
Speaker 1: to Wallack's Music City or something and came around with

1538
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:36,639
Speaker 1: a distortion box. Try this. It was as offhand as that.

1539
01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 1: It was just from nowhere. I never really got into

1540
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:42,519
Speaker 1: the thing after that either. It had very limited use,

1541
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:45,599
Speaker 1: but it was just right for the song, and Keith

1542
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:48,880
Speaker 1: initially envisioned redoing the track later with a horn section

1543
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:51,439
Speaker 1: playing this riff. He said, this was just a little

1544
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:54,400
Speaker 1: sketch because to my mind, the fuzz tone was really

1545
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:57,280
Speaker 1: there to denote what the horns would be doing, which

1546
01:20:57,320 --> 01:21:02,040
Speaker 1: is really interesting now, Heigel, Yes, I know, I'm looking

1547
01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:04,240
Speaker 1: at you like a bo that's been pulled back.

1548
01:21:04,439 --> 01:21:06,080
Speaker 2: I've trained my whole life for this.

1549
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:09,520
Speaker 1: Please, I want you to tell us about guitar pedals.

1550
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:13,400
Speaker 2: Well, specifically, we're going to hone in on just the

1551
01:21:13,439 --> 01:21:17,280
Speaker 2: overall concept of distortion in general and how that's been

1552
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:20,639
Speaker 2: applied to guitar historically, not only in this song, but

1553
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:23,320
Speaker 2: in many others. I'm giving you a playlist and you

1554
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:27,479
Speaker 2: will learn today. So many people, including Keith himself in

1555
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:29,960
Speaker 2: his own book, which is his right, have claimed that

1556
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:33,080
Speaker 2: his use of the Maestro f Z one fuzz tone

1557
01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:36,880
Speaker 2: as the first recorded use of fuzz in history. That

1558
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 2: is incorrect, as we will see. But first let's figure

1559
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:45,400
Speaker 2: out what differentiates fuzz from distortion and overdrive, which are

1560
01:21:45,439 --> 01:21:47,759
Speaker 2: three terms that you will constantly hear when you're talking

1561
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:53,600
Speaker 2: about guitar music, specifically recorded electric guitar. So there are

1562
01:21:53,640 --> 01:21:57,160
Speaker 2: obviously many ways looking at the concept just distortion, but

1563
01:21:57,200 --> 01:21:59,720
Speaker 2: in pure audio terms, a great working definition of it

1564
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 2: is the falsified reproduction of an audio signal caused by

1565
01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:09,759
Speaker 2: change in the original signals waveform. So, as is fairly

1566
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:14,559
Speaker 2: common knowledge, sounds travel via waves and in a wave

1567
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 2: when you see this surrendered horizontally over a period of time,

1568
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 2: there are natural peaks and valleys within that waveform. Guitar

1569
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:25,360
Speaker 2: sounds are transformed when either amps just power amps, or

1570
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:29,840
Speaker 2: tubes within those amps, or pedals or pre amps any

1571
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:33,160
Speaker 2: kind of other signal is added to the guitar's original tone,

1572
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:36,599
Speaker 2: and that changes the waveform it pushes them to. Clip

1573
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,240
Speaker 2: Clipping is generally considered a negative thing because that means

1574
01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:45,000
Speaker 2: you're overloading a particular I guess a particular jack or

1575
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:50,360
Speaker 2: socket or sound sources ability to process sound cleanly. But

1576
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,519
Speaker 2: you can use soft and hard clipping before it gets

1577
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:59,040
Speaker 2: truly distorted for a pleasing effect, which people have termed overdrive,

1578
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:02,680
Speaker 2: and then is kind of slightly separate from that, and

1579
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:07,360
Speaker 2: then at the next one is fuzz, and fuzz is

1580
01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:10,920
Speaker 2: the hardest form of clipping because what it does is

1581
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 2: just essentially clips off the peaks and the valleys from

1582
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 2: a guitar signal, and it literally turns the waveform into

1583
01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:23,360
Speaker 2: a square shape. So that's why you hear a lot

1584
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:27,280
Speaker 2: of fuzz guitar and some synthesizers will sound the same

1585
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:32,719
Speaker 2: because synthesizers also use square wave to give their signals shapes.

1586
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:37,280
Speaker 2: So distortion changes the harmonic content of a note by

1587
01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:41,240
Speaker 2: adding new frequencies. Every note has what's called a fundamental,

1588
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:45,200
Speaker 2: or the pure undistorted pitch of whatever the sound is.

1589
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 2: Because the way sound works, you can hear different multiples

1590
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:54,799
Speaker 2: of overtones of any fundamental on different instruments. For example,

1591
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 2: if you go into a piano and jam a C chord,

1592
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:01,360
Speaker 2: you know, you can often hear the with a g

1593
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:05,560
Speaker 2: ringing separately. You can also hear this on stringed instruments

1594
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 2: occasionally even saxophones if people are overblowing and doing and

1595
01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:11,160
Speaker 2: generating these these overtones.

1596
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:15,240
Speaker 1: Vocals too, sometimes like people like David Lee Roth and.

1597
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:21,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, although I'm not sure if his whistle tones

1598
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 2: count as distortion, or as they count as two tones,

1599
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:29,599
Speaker 2: you know. Anyway, So the quick way of getting a

1600
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:32,080
Speaker 2: bunch more overtones onto a signal and thus make it

1601
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:35,200
Speaker 2: sound more pleasing. People talk about it sounding fuller or

1602
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:42,280
Speaker 2: more gleaming and bright. Carl Santana, I think has called it, like,

1603
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:45,559
Speaker 2: you know, the an entire new palette of sounds building

1604
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:50,320
Speaker 2: onto the original in terms of painting colors. So you

1605
01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 2: can either turn your stuff up real loud, which is

1606
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:56,679
Speaker 2: why stuff sounds better loud. Stuff does sound better loud always,

1607
01:24:56,760 --> 01:25:00,680
Speaker 2: that's the rule. And so there's an invisible space at

1608
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:05,800
Speaker 2: the top and bottom of every waveform between the absolute

1609
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:08,760
Speaker 2: top level that any source is capable of generating in

1610
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 2: terms of volume and those waveforms, and the space in

1611
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 2: between is called headroom. So you have headroom until you

1612
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:18,760
Speaker 2: max out the volume, and then you run out of

1613
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:21,720
Speaker 2: headroom and your thing is running it dimed, is what

1614
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:25,759
Speaker 2: you know. You call it running into the red. Everything's

1615
01:25:25,880 --> 01:25:28,840
Speaker 2: turned up to ten. You know, that's the stereotypical like, oh,

1616
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:30,800
Speaker 2: this would turn it up two eleven, Like that's what

1617
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:34,640
Speaker 2: you're talking about. So the bigger you make your waveform

1618
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:39,639
Speaker 2: relative to the headroom the more distorted your signal becomes,

1619
01:25:40,040 --> 01:25:42,799
Speaker 2: and lightly if you're pushing it lightly into the headroom,

1620
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:46,040
Speaker 2: you get what's called natural overdrive. You might also hear

1621
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:49,360
Speaker 2: people call this tube overdrive because before it was in pedals,

1622
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:52,280
Speaker 2: it was from actually saturating the power tubes of the

1623
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:55,559
Speaker 2: amp and pushing that through the speaker, and everything from

1624
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:58,040
Speaker 2: speaker cone to the kind of tubes you use in

1625
01:25:58,080 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 2: the power amp section effect that natural overdrive. So all

1626
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:07,120
Speaker 2: of these sounds, though, were done prior to satisfaction. One

1627
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:09,920
Speaker 2: of the earliest examples of like an overdriven dirty guitar

1628
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:13,040
Speaker 2: is actually from a Western swing record called Bob Will's

1629
01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:16,080
Speaker 2: Boogie that is from nineteen forty six, though it is

1630
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:18,920
Speaker 2: more likely that that song, with the studio technology at

1631
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:21,599
Speaker 2: the time, would have been overdriven through a solid state

1632
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:34,400
Speaker 2: amplifier rather than a twoe band. A couple years later,

1633
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:39,640
Speaker 2: nineteen forty nine, Gory Carter recorded Rockaway, which has some

1634
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:44,080
Speaker 2: gnarly disorted guitar tone and also basically the Chuck Berry

1635
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 2: riff no no no no no no no no no

1636
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 2: no no no, years before Chuck Berry played it. However,

1637
01:26:59,479 --> 01:27:02,520
Speaker 2: generally agreed upon first rock and roll song ever recorded,

1638
01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:06,160
Speaker 2: is Rocket eighty eight in nineteen fifty one that amp

1639
01:27:06,479 --> 01:27:20,240
Speaker 2: achieved its tone simply by being damaged in some unspecified way.

1640
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:24,400
Speaker 2: So in nineteen fifty three, James Cotton releases a song

1641
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:27,240
Speaker 2: called Cotton Crop Blues, and the guitarist on there is

1642
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:29,960
Speaker 2: a guy named Pat Hare. You can hear him use

1643
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:35,439
Speaker 2: power chords about when is this fifty three? About five

1644
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:39,120
Speaker 2: years before link Ray is credited with inventing the power

1645
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:44,439
Speaker 2: chord on rumble powerchord on electric guitar anyway. Fun fact

1646
01:27:45,120 --> 01:27:48,000
Speaker 2: after this recording Hair, the next thing he recorded in

1647
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:49,760
Speaker 2: the studio was a version of a nineteen forties blues

1648
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:52,599
Speaker 2: song delightfully titled I'm going to Murder my Baby. And

1649
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:55,840
Speaker 2: then nine years later he did just that, shooting his

1650
01:27:55,880 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 2: girlfriend in Minneapolis, and the policeman who came to investigate

1651
01:27:59,439 --> 01:28:01,760
Speaker 2: this was in this Member of nineteen sixty three. He

1652
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:06,559
Speaker 2: pleaded guilty and died in prison in nineteen eighty. The

1653
01:28:06,600 --> 01:28:09,800
Speaker 2: next popular song you might have heard destroyed guitar on

1654
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:12,200
Speaker 2: was by Johnny Burnett and the Rock and Roll trios

1655
01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:14,960
Speaker 2: Train Kept a Roll in a nineteen fifty six This

1656
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:18,600
Speaker 2: happened when guitarist Paul Burlison deliberately loosened the tubes in

1657
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:21,559
Speaker 2: his amps. When you have your tubes aren't fitted correctly

1658
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:24,439
Speaker 2: into the amp, they will not produce enough power and

1659
01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 2: you can get what's called a sag like a sag

1660
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:30,679
Speaker 2: voltage effect. There are pedals that replicate this, this idea

1661
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:32,920
Speaker 2: of like a pedal running out of something running out

1662
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:34,599
Speaker 2: of power, and that's when you get sort of those

1663
01:28:34,640 --> 01:28:36,559
Speaker 2: fuzz effects. They just kind of trail off, they kind

1664
01:28:36,600 --> 01:28:41,880
Speaker 2: of fizzle out, the idea being that like it's replicating

1665
01:28:41,880 --> 01:28:51,320
Speaker 2: the sound of something not having enough power. But there

1666
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:55,519
Speaker 2: were early attempts at making discrete fuzzboxes for this purpose.

1667
01:28:56,360 --> 01:28:59,960
Speaker 2: None other than Lee Hazelwood our boy Lee hazel would

1668
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:06,880
Speaker 2: Love commissioned an unnamed radio technician to develop a fuzzbox

1669
01:29:07,200 --> 01:29:10,960
Speaker 2: for his use in the studio and Wrecking Crew guitarist

1670
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:13,320
Speaker 2: Al Casey was one of the first guys to be

1671
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:17,200
Speaker 2: recorded using it on a contract record by Sanford Clark.

1672
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:19,280
Speaker 2: Name of that song is go On Home in nineteen

1673
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:23,479
Speaker 2: fifty six. Two years later, Link Ray just jabbed a

1674
01:29:23,479 --> 01:29:26,040
Speaker 2: pencil into the speaker cone of his amplifier to achieve

1675
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:29,840
Speaker 2: the sound on Rumble is Menacing nineteen fifty eight. Instrumental.

1676
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:40,320
Speaker 2: Brady Martin, who is the other guitarist on that Johnny

1677
01:29:40,320 --> 01:29:43,479
Speaker 2: Burnett session, replicated the trick on a Marty Robins song

1678
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:46,080
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty one's Don't Worry. That's one of those high

1679
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:49,559
Speaker 2: profile songs to use this sound thus far. Martin himself

1680
01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:51,400
Speaker 2: was so entranced by the sound that he recorded his

1681
01:29:51,439 --> 01:29:54,160
Speaker 2: own instrumental using the trick to record a track that

1682
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:57,240
Speaker 2: he simply called the Fuzz and may have earned its

1683
01:29:57,280 --> 01:30:01,040
Speaker 2: popular title that came out in nineteen sixty one. One.

1684
01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:04,479
Speaker 2: One of the true stars of the fuzzbox technology at

1685
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:06,919
Speaker 2: this time was a pedal steel player named Red Rhodes.

1686
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:09,519
Speaker 2: This guy's kind of famous in weird circles. He was

1687
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:14,360
Speaker 2: a prime collaborator of is it Mickey? Which monkey hung

1688
01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:15,559
Speaker 2: out with him? Nesmyth?

1689
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:17,880
Speaker 1: It must have been Nesmuth because Nesmuth was more of

1690
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:18,679
Speaker 1: a country guy.

1691
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:22,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Red Rhodes, also a bit of a tinkerer,

1692
01:30:22,400 --> 01:30:26,160
Speaker 2: built his own fuzzbox. Several of them actually loaned one

1693
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:28,680
Speaker 2: out to another wrecking Crew player, Billy Strange, who used

1694
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:31,320
Speaker 2: it on of all things, and Margaret's I Just Don't

1695
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:35,760
Speaker 2: Understand in nineteen sixty one. So Red was he built

1696
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:38,280
Speaker 2: another one of these and sold them to the Ventures.

1697
01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:40,680
Speaker 2: They came to him in nineteen sixty two asking for

1698
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:42,680
Speaker 2: one of these fuzzboxes, and then they quickly put its

1699
01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:55,479
Speaker 2: use on their song two hundred pounds B Great Size, Yeah,

1700
01:30:56,680 --> 01:31:00,920
Speaker 2: sounds like what it is. Perhaps the most enduring a

1701
01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:05,280
Speaker 2: proto metal guitar tone came courtesy of The Kinks Dave Davies,

1702
01:31:05,479 --> 01:31:08,240
Speaker 2: who copied link Ras approach by slicing up his amp's

1703
01:31:08,240 --> 01:31:10,960
Speaker 2: speaker cone with a razorblade for their nineteen sixty four

1704
01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:12,400
Speaker 2: hit You Really Got Me.

1705
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:16,719
Speaker 1: Fuzz.

1706
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:19,720
Speaker 2: Of the three distortion types, sounds the gnarliest, and that

1707
01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:23,920
Speaker 2: is because most fuzz circuits in pedals utilized transistors that

1708
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:27,400
Speaker 2: have a lower fidelity sound and add more harmonics into

1709
01:31:27,439 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 2: the signal as the waveform becomes more squared. So not

1710
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:34,160
Speaker 2: only is it reducing and clipping the size of the waveform,

1711
01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:37,160
Speaker 2: but it is also adding more and more harmonics into it,

1712
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:40,000
Speaker 2: which is why they sound generally very muddy and disgusting.

1713
01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:46,559
Speaker 2: And those transistors are germanium, which, as we noted early

1714
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:51,600
Speaker 2: we're using Keith's Phillips tape recorder. Germanium transistors have a

1715
01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:55,639
Speaker 2: smoother tone profile. Silicone transistors are more aggressive and bright,

1716
01:31:55,680 --> 01:31:57,960
Speaker 2: and so to this day you will see guitar pedal

1717
01:31:57,960 --> 01:32:02,480
Speaker 2: builders differentiating or even providing multiple modes on their pedals

1718
01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 2: of which kind of transistor you can use. There is

1719
01:32:06,320 --> 01:32:09,839
Speaker 2: little disagreement though, however, over who introduced the first commercially

1720
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:13,679
Speaker 2: available fuzz pedal. That is the venerable guitar maker Gibson,

1721
01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:18,400
Speaker 2: who released the aforementioned f Z one fuzz tone in

1722
01:32:18,479 --> 01:32:22,919
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty two through their subsidiary Maestro. Now the product

1723
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:28,040
Speaker 2: was an actual invention of recording engineer Glenn Snoddy with

1724
01:32:28,200 --> 01:32:34,040
Speaker 2: D's and another radio engineer, Revis V. Hobbes. They sold

1725
01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:36,240
Speaker 2: their idea for the circuit to Gibson, but they did

1726
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:39,320
Speaker 2: get the patent on it, I believe, and the FZ

1727
01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:42,559
Speaker 2: one fuzz tone dropped in nineteen sixty two, containing a

1728
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:47,679
Speaker 2: three transistor circuit using RCA two N two seven zero

1729
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:53,160
Speaker 2: germanium transistors. This is all germane to guitar nerds, because

1730
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:56,840
Speaker 2: people are literally still looking up dead stock RCA two

1731
01:32:57,000 --> 01:33:00,960
Speaker 2: nd two seventy germanium transistors to use in there Maestro

1732
01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:05,839
Speaker 2: FZ one fuzz tone copies. But the thing was designed

1733
01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:10,040
Speaker 2: multiple times. Funnily enough, a subsequent redesign of this pedal

1734
01:33:10,120 --> 01:33:13,880
Speaker 2: was done by Robert mog of all people, so not

1735
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:16,519
Speaker 2: only did he create the most iconic synthesizers of all time,

1736
01:33:16,760 --> 01:33:20,679
Speaker 2: he had a hand in redesigning the first commercial fuzz pedal.

1737
01:33:21,160 --> 01:33:24,080
Speaker 1: These pedals must be I mean, I'm on eBay right now,

1738
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:27,360
Speaker 1: going for you know, close to one thousand dollars these

1739
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:28,160
Speaker 1: vintage ones.

1740
01:33:28,840 --> 01:33:31,679
Speaker 2: It's funny because Seth Applebaum of the Ghost Funk Orchestra,

1741
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:34,120
Speaker 2: who provided our show with its theme song, has a

1742
01:33:34,200 --> 01:33:37,679
Speaker 2: tone bender, which was another one of these early fuzz things.

1743
01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:39,840
Speaker 2: And not only is it the size of an NBA

1744
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:43,400
Speaker 2: player's shoe, but it is just so finicky that I

1745
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:45,720
Speaker 2: think he played it on like one show and then

1746
01:33:45,800 --> 01:33:47,640
Speaker 2: quickly pulled it off the board and replaced it with

1747
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:52,800
Speaker 2: something newer. So early guitar pedals were usually made without

1748
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:55,960
Speaker 2: size as a factor, because nobody could have foreseen that

1749
01:33:56,200 --> 01:33:58,920
Speaker 2: one day, thirty years, forty years. However, in the future,

1750
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:01,879
Speaker 2: people were gonna have pedal boards with like twenty pedals

1751
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:05,880
Speaker 2: on them, and silence was also not a virtue with

1752
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:09,040
Speaker 2: the stiff action of these switches. So indeed, Richard's f

1753
01:34:09,200 --> 01:34:14,880
Speaker 2: Z one appears on satisfaction in not just its tone,

1754
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:18,160
Speaker 2: but in the audible click that the pedal makes when

1755
01:34:18,160 --> 01:34:20,640
Speaker 2: he turns it on. The best part, he turns it

1756
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:23,080
Speaker 2: off for the verse, and right before the chorus backs

1757
01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:25,639
Speaker 2: in he turns it on, and around thirty five seconds

1758
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:28,640
Speaker 2: in you can hear a very audible mechanical click on

1759
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:29,519
Speaker 2: the master track.

1760
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 1: I always thought that was like a dead note on

1761
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:38,960
Speaker 1: his guitar that he was doing intentionally.

1762
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:41,760
Speaker 2: That's my favorite part of the song. No, it's one

1763
01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:43,920
Speaker 2: of my favorite kind of things that get left in

1764
01:34:43,960 --> 01:34:45,800
Speaker 2: and become sort of the grain of the song, Like

1765
01:34:46,640 --> 01:34:49,960
Speaker 2: the crazy like kick drum squeak you got on certain

1766
01:34:51,280 --> 01:34:54,280
Speaker 2: that's all over certain Zeppelin recordings, That's all over James

1767
01:34:54,360 --> 01:34:57,599
Speaker 2: Brown recordings. I think it's the one Ludwig kick pedal

1768
01:34:57,920 --> 01:35:01,799
Speaker 2: that's just famous for having this horrible rat like squeak

1769
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:05,240
Speaker 2: to it. Just made it on all his records. Well,

1770
01:35:05,240 --> 01:35:07,880
Speaker 2: that was amazing, Thank you, Hagel. Yeah, yeah, I mean

1771
01:35:08,040 --> 01:35:11,960
Speaker 2: I think the other big famous one is the fuzz face,

1772
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:14,560
Speaker 2: which was designed by British engineers for Hendrix.

1773
01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:17,559
Speaker 1: Are you familiar with I'm afraid that this is going

1774
01:35:17,600 --> 01:35:21,000
Speaker 1: to cause your head to explode. The Bobby socks and

1775
01:35:21,080 --> 01:35:24,679
Speaker 1: blue jeans. Version of Zippity Doda that Phil Spector produced

1776
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:27,440
Speaker 1: that also has an early version of fuzz.

1777
01:35:28,600 --> 01:35:33,439
Speaker 2: No No, I'm not is a you look so sad

1778
01:35:33,560 --> 01:35:34,000
Speaker 2: right now?

1779
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:44,200
Speaker 1: This was more of a studio accident as opposed to

1780
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:48,000
Speaker 1: a pedal, but it was late nineteen sixty two. This

1781
01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:50,640
Speaker 1: is actually according to George Harrison, who became close to

1782
01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:53,639
Speaker 1: Phil Spector. When Phil Spector was making Zippity Doo Dah,

1783
01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:56,360
Speaker 1: the engineer who set up the track overloaded the microphone

1784
01:35:56,360 --> 01:35:59,200
Speaker 1: on the guitar player and it became very distorted. Phil

1785
01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:01,920
Speaker 1: Spector said, leave it like that, it's great. Some years

1786
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:04,200
Speaker 1: later everyone tried to copy that sound, and so they

1787
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:07,960
Speaker 1: invented the fuzz box. H And that would have been

1788
01:36:07,960 --> 01:36:11,760
Speaker 1: recorded h yeah, in late nineteen sixty two. So that's

1789
01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:16,320
Speaker 1: another early fuzzz example, all right, So it goes without

1790
01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:20,280
Speaker 1: saying the Maestra pedal was the MVP of Satisfaction. But

1791
01:36:20,360 --> 01:36:23,960
Speaker 1: even after this revamp, Keith Riches was not convinced that

1792
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:25,839
Speaker 1: the song had would it take to be a single?

1793
01:36:26,040 --> 01:36:29,160
Speaker 1: Come on, Keith, I know he's really for somebody who's

1794
01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:31,960
Speaker 1: usually like pretty down to take a chance on things

1795
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:36,719
Speaker 1: like Heroin this is really he's really being a bummer

1796
01:36:36,760 --> 01:36:37,519
Speaker 1: in this episode.

1797
01:36:37,640 --> 01:36:41,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, quite a conservatory little boy. Come on now, conservative

1798
01:36:41,280 --> 01:36:42,240
Speaker 2: little boy, I should say.

1799
01:36:43,040 --> 01:36:45,280
Speaker 1: As Mick would recall, it sounded like a folk song

1800
01:36:45,280 --> 01:36:47,360
Speaker 1: when we first started working on it, and Keith didn't

1801
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:49,400
Speaker 1: like it much. He didn't want it to be a single.

1802
01:36:49,720 --> 01:36:52,120
Speaker 1: He didn't think he would do very well. That's the

1803
01:36:52,160 --> 01:36:53,960
Speaker 1: only time we've had a disagreement.

1804
01:36:55,160 --> 01:36:57,280
Speaker 2: I voice it was not.

1805
01:36:58,280 --> 01:36:59,960
Speaker 1: I can't figure out if this was like a very

1806
01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:03,599
Speaker 1: very early quote or he's being very tongue in cheek.

1807
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:04,280
Speaker 2: I'm not sure.

1808
01:37:05,160 --> 01:37:08,040
Speaker 1: Keith elaborated, saying that the version of satisfaction that we

1809
01:37:08,080 --> 01:37:11,080
Speaker 1: know in love always felt incomplete to him. He said

1810
01:37:11,120 --> 01:37:12,719
Speaker 1: it sounded like a dub or a demo.

1811
01:37:12,840 --> 01:37:13,080
Speaker 2: To me.

1812
01:37:13,640 --> 01:37:16,120
Speaker 1: I couldn't get excited about it. I really dug it

1813
01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:18,120
Speaker 1: that night. I wrote it in the motel, but I'd

1814
01:37:18,160 --> 01:37:21,040
Speaker 1: gone past it. I didn't want it out. It sounded

1815
01:37:21,080 --> 01:37:23,280
Speaker 1: all right, but I didn't really like that fuzz guitar.

1816
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:26,800
Speaker 1: I wanted to make that thing different. You needed either

1817
01:37:26,840 --> 01:37:29,080
Speaker 1: horns or something else that could knock that riff out.

1818
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:31,400
Speaker 1: The riff was gonna make the song or break it.

1819
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:34,960
Speaker 1: He was correct, and it wasn't meant for guitar. Just

1820
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:37,840
Speaker 1: as there are multiple conflicting versions of the song's genesis,

1821
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:41,879
Speaker 1: there are also multiple versions concerning the song's release. According

1822
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:44,559
Speaker 1: to one manager, Andrew lug Oldham decided to put the

1823
01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:47,519
Speaker 1: decision to a band vote, which feels like something out

1824
01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:51,080
Speaker 1: of Flight of the Concords. That's oddly adorable. According to

1825
01:37:51,080 --> 01:37:54,719
Speaker 1: Bill Wyman, the vote was close, with Charlie Watts the drummer,

1826
01:37:54,760 --> 01:37:58,320
Speaker 1: Bill Wyman, bass player, and Brian Jones, the guitarist, voting yes,

1827
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:02,120
Speaker 1: put it out, which is prizing considering the pop hating

1828
01:38:02,120 --> 01:38:04,960
Speaker 1: blues purist. Brian Jones actually went for it, but we'll

1829
01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:06,040
Speaker 1: talk more about that later.

1830
01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:09,679
Speaker 2: Mcking Keith meanwhile opposed.

1831
01:38:09,160 --> 01:38:13,000
Speaker 1: The choice of releasing it as a single. Mick Meanwhile

1832
01:38:13,160 --> 01:38:15,719
Speaker 1: has been asked about this and says he doesn't remember voting,

1833
01:38:16,040 --> 01:38:17,680
Speaker 1: which I guess it's probably done a good look for

1834
01:38:17,720 --> 01:38:19,759
Speaker 1: him to say, yeah, I didn't think we should put.

1835
01:38:19,600 --> 01:38:20,680
Speaker 2: Our most sign up.

1836
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:23,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, A lot of people are charmed by those stories.

1837
01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:24,400
Speaker 1: There's a lot of stories.

1838
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:28,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess he just he probably is incapable of bending.

1839
01:38:28,720 --> 01:38:31,200
Speaker 2: He was wrong, right, And yeah, no, that's true. That's

1840
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:32,879
Speaker 2: the hold up there that's very true.

1841
01:38:33,400 --> 01:38:35,559
Speaker 1: Keith would say over the years that he only discovered

1842
01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:38,600
Speaker 1: that the song was released when driving through the United States.

1843
01:38:39,360 --> 01:38:41,160
Speaker 1: He said, we left the track and went back out

1844
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:43,240
Speaker 1: on the road, and two weeks later I heard it

1845
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:46,040
Speaker 1: on the radio. I said, no, that was just a demo.

1846
01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:50,200
Speaker 1: The timeline of that doesn't fully line up, because the

1847
01:38:50,320 --> 01:38:52,560
Speaker 1: US tour had rapped by the time the song was

1848
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:55,000
Speaker 1: available in Chops. But it could have been a promo

1849
01:38:55,160 --> 01:38:58,519
Speaker 1: that Andrew Logodam leaked the radio stations because a favorite

1850
01:38:58,520 --> 01:39:01,479
Speaker 1: way of putting the muscle on record companies or bands

1851
01:39:01,479 --> 01:39:03,840
Speaker 1: who didn't want to release a song or were giving

1852
01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:06,400
Speaker 1: promos or tapes to radio networks and trying to get

1853
01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:09,400
Speaker 1: a ground swell of listeners to request it often enough

1854
01:39:09,439 --> 01:39:12,200
Speaker 1: that basically forced the label's hand to put it out,

1855
01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:15,160
Speaker 1: So maybe that was what he was doing. In any event,

1856
01:39:15,280 --> 01:39:18,280
Speaker 1: Satisfaction was released in the US on June fourth, nineteen

1857
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:21,679
Speaker 1: sixty five, barely a month after Mike it first put

1858
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:25,080
Speaker 1: words to Keith's riff by a Florida swimming pool. The

1859
01:39:25,080 --> 01:39:27,360
Speaker 1: song answered the Billboard Hot one hundred the week ending

1860
01:39:27,439 --> 01:39:30,679
Speaker 1: June twelfth, and by July tenth, the song was number

1861
01:39:30,680 --> 01:39:34,639
Speaker 1: one toppling the four tops. I can't help myself, sugar Pie,

1862
01:39:34,680 --> 01:39:37,680
Speaker 1: Honey Bunch that song wise, Yeah, a great song. It

1863
01:39:37,720 --> 01:39:39,960
Speaker 1: held the top spot for four weeks before the band

1864
01:39:40,040 --> 01:39:43,720
Speaker 1: was supplanted by their own nemesis, Hermit's Hermits and their

1865
01:39:43,760 --> 01:39:47,680
Speaker 1: truly dreadful song I'm Enery the Eighth I Am That

1866
01:39:47,800 --> 01:39:48,559
Speaker 1: song blows.

1867
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:51,240
Speaker 2: Oh god, I forgot they also did that, Hey, I

1868
01:39:51,320 --> 01:39:56,240
Speaker 2: told yeah, yeah a song yeah sus sucks. Oh Menory

1869
01:39:56,320 --> 01:40:00,559
Speaker 2: the eight Menory the I Done. You would gain some

1870
01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:04,320
Speaker 2: kind of a perverse No, no, I hate that song now.

1871
01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:09,120
Speaker 1: That and Winchester Cathedral by the New Christy Minstrels. No, yeah,

1872
01:40:09,160 --> 01:40:11,720
Speaker 1: there's there's a there's a level of kitch that even

1873
01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:15,400
Speaker 1: I don't mess with. In the sixties, Yeah, no, I

1874
01:40:15,400 --> 01:40:18,200
Speaker 1: can't deal with that. Do the Freddy by Freddie and

1875
01:40:18,200 --> 01:40:19,560
Speaker 1: the Dreamers also blows.

1876
01:40:19,960 --> 01:40:23,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. You're already talking about you passed into

1877
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:25,599
Speaker 2: I don't know or care about and leave it. Keep

1878
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:26,640
Speaker 2: it that way.

1879
01:40:27,400 --> 01:40:31,439
Speaker 1: In the UK, Satisfaction wasn't issued until August twentieth, so

1880
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:34,160
Speaker 1: the Stones could promote it in person. Hit number one

1881
01:40:34,200 --> 01:40:37,960
Speaker 1: there on September fifteenth, and stayed for two weeks. Interesting

1882
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:39,800
Speaker 1: that it was a number one in September because it's

1883
01:40:39,800 --> 01:40:43,720
Speaker 1: such a summer song. To me, it was interesting, classic

1884
01:40:44,760 --> 01:40:48,760
Speaker 1: classic song of the summer. I would argue, maybe there's

1885
01:40:48,760 --> 01:40:51,479
Speaker 1: something in the fifties I'm forgetting, but like that seems

1886
01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:54,120
Speaker 1: like the prototypical summer song to me.

1887
01:40:54,560 --> 01:40:58,080
Speaker 2: Interesting. What about Mungo Jerry.

1888
01:40:57,960 --> 01:40:58,680
Speaker 1: That was later though?

1889
01:40:58,680 --> 01:41:01,200
Speaker 2: That was seventy Oh so you think it's the first

1890
01:41:01,240 --> 01:41:01,920
Speaker 2: song of the summer.

1891
01:41:01,960 --> 01:41:04,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say Satisfaction is the first song of

1892
01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:06,360
Speaker 1: the summer in all caps.

1893
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:09,639
Speaker 2: I don't care to debate you with this, okay at

1894
01:41:09,640 --> 01:41:12,200
Speaker 2: this point, but I don't think that's true. And we

1895
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:15,840
Speaker 2: will revisit this, Okay, think about this.

1896
01:41:16,360 --> 01:41:20,000
Speaker 1: I am think real hard. You're messing with the I am.

1897
01:41:20,840 --> 01:41:23,120
Speaker 2: I sure will, Okay, all.

1898
01:41:23,080 --> 01:41:25,800
Speaker 1: Right, okay, Okay, you know what Percy Face theme from

1899
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:28,599
Speaker 1: a summer place in nineteen sixty did really well?

1900
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:30,680
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean, I'm gonna come at this with my

1901
01:41:30,760 --> 01:41:35,439
Speaker 2: own kind of standards. But we'll talk. We'll cut. Get

1902
01:41:35,479 --> 01:41:37,479
Speaker 2: everyone caught up on this at some point, right.

1903
01:41:38,120 --> 01:41:40,439
Speaker 1: Think about it, worry about it, put in an email,

1904
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:41,160
Speaker 1: don't send it.

1905
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:44,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, find any gods you hold dear?

1906
01:41:44,320 --> 01:41:48,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, more than their first American number one. Satisfaction was

1907
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:51,920
Speaker 1: a quantum leak beyond anything the Stones had ever achieved.

1908
01:41:52,720 --> 01:41:55,280
Speaker 1: Mick is a cherished memory of driving up La Specific

1909
01:41:55,320 --> 01:41:57,680
Speaker 1: Coast Highway with Andrew lug Oldham that summer and a

1910
01:41:57,720 --> 01:42:01,920
Speaker 1: red Ford Mustang, pouching the Radi buttons and hearing satisfaction

1911
01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:07,599
Speaker 1: on each station. That is a top five memory for anybody, really, YEA.

1912
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:10,760
Speaker 1: In order to understand the song's popularity, it's important to

1913
01:42:10,800 --> 01:42:13,160
Speaker 1: compare the song to other songs in the chart at

1914
01:42:13,200 --> 01:42:16,280
Speaker 1: the time, polished pop tunes like The Birds and the

1915
01:42:16,320 --> 01:42:19,759
Speaker 1: Bees by Joeykins, The Song Also Blows, or This Diamond

1916
01:42:19,840 --> 01:42:22,400
Speaker 1: Ring by Gary Lewis and the Playboys. That song's Okay

1917
01:42:22,640 --> 01:42:27,320
Speaker 1: satisfaction sounded raw and rebellious, even just sonically. As you mentioned,

1918
01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:29,759
Speaker 1: it was the first big hit to feature fuzzbox distortion,

1919
01:42:30,240 --> 01:42:32,800
Speaker 1: a sound the Beatles themselves would borrow a year later

1920
01:42:32,840 --> 01:42:36,320
Speaker 1: for Paul's base on Think for Yourself, a rare example

1921
01:42:36,720 --> 01:42:42,720
Speaker 1: of the Stones doing something before the Beatles. Speaking of

1922
01:42:42,720 --> 01:42:47,160
Speaker 1: the Beatles, Satisfaction truly clarified Andrew lou Goldham's goal positioning

1923
01:42:47,200 --> 01:42:50,839
Speaker 1: the Stones as the anti Fab four in a pop.

1924
01:42:50,640 --> 01:42:53,000
Speaker 2: Culture ruled by either oars.

1925
01:42:53,040 --> 01:42:56,760
Speaker 1: Pepsi or Coke Marlborough or Cool. Rock and Roll would

1926
01:42:56,760 --> 01:43:01,120
Speaker 1: now be either the Beatles or the Stones. It's interesting

1927
01:43:01,160 --> 01:43:03,280
Speaker 1: to note that the summer sixty five, the summer that

1928
01:43:03,400 --> 01:43:07,080
Speaker 1: Satisfaction hit number one and established the Stones as the

1929
01:43:07,160 --> 01:43:09,840
Speaker 1: bad boys of rock. The Beatles were included on the

1930
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:14,479
Speaker 1: Queen's birthday honors list as mbes or members of the

1931
01:43:14,479 --> 01:43:16,760
Speaker 1: British Empire, and later that year they would come the

1932
01:43:16,760 --> 01:43:19,720
Speaker 1: Buckingham Palace and be given the honor in person by

1933
01:43:19,760 --> 01:43:20,440
Speaker 1: the Queen.

1934
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:22,639
Speaker 2: Because there was such nice boys, I know.

1935
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:25,679
Speaker 1: But it's just interesting that in the same month, June

1936
01:43:25,760 --> 01:43:29,519
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, that the Beatles were quite literally welcomed

1937
01:43:29,520 --> 01:43:32,879
Speaker 1: into the British establishment with the capitol eed, the Stones

1938
01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:35,440
Speaker 1: were scandalizing the populace with Satisfaction.

1939
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:38,720
Speaker 2: Did John Lennon like send it back? No? But I mean,

1940
01:43:38,760 --> 01:43:41,600
Speaker 2: do you think did he like privately agonize over the

1941
01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:44,120
Speaker 2: fact that he was just, by association with Paul like

1942
01:43:44,240 --> 01:43:48,360
Speaker 2: suddenly thought to be like not as dangerous as the

1943
01:43:48,400 --> 01:43:50,839
Speaker 2: Stone Like? Did he worry about his bad boy image

1944
01:43:50,880 --> 01:43:52,559
Speaker 2: being supplanted by the Stones?

1945
01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:54,760
Speaker 1: I don't think at that time, No, I don't think

1946
01:43:54,760 --> 01:43:57,640
Speaker 1: he cared much that at that time he got as

1947
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:00,680
Speaker 1: he got the little medal or badge they gave him

1948
01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:02,800
Speaker 1: and gave he gave it to his auntie Mimi. He

1949
01:44:02,880 --> 01:44:04,479
Speaker 1: was the woman who raised him, and she kept it

1950
01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:06,080
Speaker 1: on top of her television set.

1951
01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:07,280
Speaker 2: I didn't ask all that.

1952
01:44:08,320 --> 01:44:10,600
Speaker 1: And then in like nineteen sixty nine he asked for

1953
01:44:10,640 --> 01:44:12,559
Speaker 1: it back and he sent it back to the queen

1954
01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:18,800
Speaker 1: as a protest against a taxes that was some kind

1955
01:44:18,800 --> 01:44:20,080
Speaker 1: of massacre in Biafra.

1956
01:44:21,040 --> 01:44:22,799
Speaker 2: Oh well, okay, I saying corrected.

1957
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:25,200
Speaker 1: That was cool with him, It was, yeah, So yeah,

1958
01:44:25,200 --> 01:44:28,559
Speaker 1: I don't think he actually in sixty five, I think

1959
01:44:28,560 --> 01:44:30,040
Speaker 1: he was perfectly happy.

1960
01:44:31,640 --> 01:44:36,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I vet him up, I ve him up, na na.

1961
01:44:36,520 --> 01:44:38,880
Speaker 1: I mean that was the summer that help came out,

1962
01:44:39,160 --> 01:44:41,439
Speaker 1: which was a literal cry for help from him. So

1963
01:44:41,479 --> 01:44:44,400
Speaker 1: he was dealing with certain demons, but I don't think

1964
01:44:44,439 --> 01:44:46,400
Speaker 1: they really had much to do with Uh.

1965
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:48,360
Speaker 2: Whether or not he was perceived as cool as the

1966
01:44:48,479 --> 01:44:52,719
Speaker 2: rolling Stones, Yeah, he definitely wasn't. So it definitely bothered him.

1967
01:44:53,800 --> 01:44:56,639
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to sell this so hard to you

1968
01:44:57,680 --> 01:45:01,560
Speaker 2: and just sitting at home clenching his tiny fits, seething.

1969
01:45:02,240 --> 01:45:05,960
Speaker 2: He throws his dumb little scally Greek fisherman's hat.

1970
01:45:05,840 --> 01:45:09,960
Speaker 1: Away that that was dumb. Even I admit that was bad.

1971
01:45:10,600 --> 01:45:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1972
01:45:11,520 --> 01:45:13,920
Speaker 1: The woman who like introduced him to that hat was

1973
01:45:13,920 --> 01:45:17,559
Speaker 1: like an art school Greek and uh no, but my

1974
01:45:17,560 --> 01:45:20,479
Speaker 1: Greek friend just texted me the moment you just said Greek,

1975
01:45:20,520 --> 01:45:23,559
Speaker 1: that was weird. Uh No, she was not Greek. She

1976
01:45:23,720 --> 01:45:25,200
Speaker 1: was just a friend from art school. And now she

1977
01:45:25,240 --> 01:45:28,639
Speaker 1: sells those caps. She makes them herself, so you can

1978
01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:32,519
Speaker 1: have an authentic John Lennon terrible cap. The other Beatles

1979
01:45:32,600 --> 01:45:40,479
Speaker 1: used to call it caps. Yeah, yeah, Anyway. Much of

1980
01:45:40,520 --> 01:45:43,680
Speaker 1: the public perception of the Stones as bad boys was

1981
01:45:43,720 --> 01:45:47,120
Speaker 1: down to the lyrics of Satisfaction. At the time of

1982
01:45:47,160 --> 01:45:49,800
Speaker 1: its release, the song was seen as provocative, not just

1983
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:52,720
Speaker 1: for its sexual undertones, but for its scathing take on

1984
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:56,920
Speaker 1: consumer culture in the modern world. Music critic Paul Gambuccini

1985
01:45:57,040 --> 01:45:59,240
Speaker 1: my interviewed once He's wonderful. He's a really interesting guy's

1986
01:45:59,240 --> 01:46:02,360
Speaker 1: written some great stuff. He noted the lyrics to this

1987
01:46:02,400 --> 01:46:05,320
Speaker 1: were truly threatening to an older audience. This song was

1988
01:46:05,360 --> 01:46:08,200
Speaker 1: perceived as an attack on the status quo, and in

1989
01:46:08,240 --> 01:46:11,000
Speaker 1: his BC Jagger biography God Awful Rock, His Story and

1990
01:46:11,040 --> 01:46:13,080
Speaker 1: Philip Norman, who wrote a not great book about the

1991
01:46:13,080 --> 01:46:17,240
Speaker 1: Beatles called Shout proclaims this the first pop song to

1992
01:46:17,360 --> 01:46:23,600
Speaker 1: directly reference sex, which feels both incorrect and deliberately obscure

1993
01:46:23,760 --> 01:46:27,960
Speaker 1: with the whole pop qualifier. But I just want to

1994
01:46:27,960 --> 01:46:30,360
Speaker 1: reference that as red meat to you and see.

1995
01:46:30,160 --> 01:46:34,719
Speaker 2: What you do with that. I'm gonna leave it alone, okay,

1996
01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:36,960
Speaker 2: which you didn't think I was gonna do.

1997
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:40,599
Speaker 1: No, Well, I already took the fun out of it.

1998
01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:42,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also disagree.

1999
01:46:44,120 --> 01:46:47,880
Speaker 1: From the very start, producer manager Andrew lug Oldham knew

2000
01:46:47,880 --> 01:46:51,799
Speaker 1: that the lyrics of Satisfaction would cause some issues, particularly

2001
01:46:51,880 --> 01:46:55,040
Speaker 1: in the States. As a result, when mixing the song,

2002
01:46:55,160 --> 01:46:59,040
Speaker 1: he ordered engineer Dave Hessinger to bury the vocals. Dave

2003
01:46:59,040 --> 01:47:01,800
Speaker 1: Hessinger would later say, I never heard the damn lyrics

2004
01:47:01,840 --> 01:47:04,760
Speaker 1: of satisfaction for years. They kept telling me to bring

2005
01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:07,400
Speaker 1: the voice down in the track. I thought they were crazy.

2006
01:47:07,720 --> 01:47:09,280
Speaker 1: I didn't know it had to do with the lyrics

2007
01:47:09,280 --> 01:47:12,519
Speaker 1: and getting radio play. The most defensive line at the

2008
01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:15,160
Speaker 1: time was the bit about Jagger quote trying to make

2009
01:47:15,240 --> 01:47:18,600
Speaker 1: some girl, which I always heard until working on this

2010
01:47:18,680 --> 01:47:22,880
Speaker 1: episode as trying to meet some girl, which says more

2011
01:47:22,920 --> 01:47:25,040
Speaker 1: about me than it does about Mick Jagger or America

2012
01:47:25,040 --> 01:47:28,599
Speaker 1: in the sixties. Even though it was buried in the mix,

2013
01:47:28,680 --> 01:47:32,080
Speaker 1: this line was too much for WABC, the New York

2014
01:47:32,120 --> 01:47:36,200
Speaker 1: City Broadcasting powerhouse, made their own edit of Satisfaction, cutting

2015
01:47:36,240 --> 01:47:40,320
Speaker 1: the verse entirely. I've seen multiple reports that the line

2016
01:47:40,360 --> 01:47:43,400
Speaker 1: was beeped during the band's February nineteen sixty six performance

2017
01:47:43,439 --> 01:47:46,400
Speaker 1: on The All Important and Sullivan Show, but the versions

2018
01:47:46,400 --> 01:47:50,360
Speaker 1: available online have the line intact. However, the following year,

2019
01:47:50,760 --> 01:47:53,240
Speaker 1: when the Stones performed on Ed Sullivan, they had to

2020
01:47:53,320 --> 01:47:55,960
Speaker 1: change the title of Let's Spend the Night Together to

2021
01:47:56,800 --> 01:47:59,920
Speaker 1: Let's spend some time together. And it's really funny to

2022
01:48:00,040 --> 01:48:02,120
Speaker 1: watch because Mick rolls his eyes every time he gets

2023
01:48:02,120 --> 01:48:04,240
Speaker 1: to the chorus good.

2024
01:48:04,040 --> 01:48:06,679
Speaker 2: For him with a bitch yeah.

2025
01:48:06,880 --> 01:48:09,760
Speaker 1: Jagger would later claim that the Pearl Clutchers always missed

2026
01:48:09,800 --> 01:48:12,439
Speaker 1: what he considered quote the dirtiest line of the song.

2027
01:48:13,600 --> 01:48:16,000
Speaker 1: This is the one where the girl pleads baby better

2028
01:48:16,040 --> 01:48:18,680
Speaker 1: come back later next week because you see, I'm on

2029
01:48:18,800 --> 01:48:22,320
Speaker 1: a losing streak. I never really thought much about what

2030
01:48:22,320 --> 01:48:23,720
Speaker 1: that line meant, did you.

2031
01:48:24,360 --> 01:48:27,600
Speaker 2: I never even understood what he said. It's also mushmouthy.

2032
01:48:27,800 --> 01:48:28,240
Speaker 2: That's true.

2033
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:31,800
Speaker 1: Yes, apparently, according to Mick, he intended this line to

2034
01:48:31,840 --> 01:48:33,720
Speaker 1: mean that the girl was on her period.

2035
01:48:38,200 --> 01:48:38,599
Speaker 2: Streak.

2036
01:48:38,960 --> 01:48:42,519
Speaker 1: That's not nice, but Jagger later elaborated, it's just life.

2037
01:48:42,720 --> 01:48:45,880
Speaker 1: That's what really happens to girls. Why shouldn't people write

2038
01:48:45,920 --> 01:48:47,320
Speaker 1: about it?

2039
01:48:47,479 --> 01:48:54,599
Speaker 2: Charming? He's so gross. I think, I don't know.

2040
01:48:54,360 --> 01:48:56,280
Speaker 1: I think he was young when he gave that quote.

2041
01:48:56,920 --> 01:48:58,559
Speaker 2: He was, no, but he was one of those young

2042
01:48:58,600 --> 01:49:01,240
Speaker 2: old people. Like even when he's like young and very pretty,

2043
01:49:01,280 --> 01:49:05,519
Speaker 2: he looks old, maybe just because he's English. Yeah yeah,

2044
01:49:06,200 --> 01:49:10,680
Speaker 2: English friends. Yeah, I'm sorry, guys born old. Nothing you

2045
01:49:10,720 --> 01:49:14,000
Speaker 2: can do about that. Yeah, since since for the Empire,

2046
01:49:14,120 --> 01:49:14,599
Speaker 2: it's such.

2047
01:49:14,880 --> 01:49:18,080
Speaker 1: A tough period being between young man and like daddy.

2048
01:49:18,320 --> 01:49:20,800
Speaker 1: I was thinking about that today, something that haunts here

2049
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:22,360
Speaker 1: because I'm in the mid period now.

2050
01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I'm not a young man. No, that's just

2051
01:49:28,280 --> 01:49:30,600
Speaker 2: oh okay, so just no point in me continuing that.

2052
01:49:38,640 --> 01:49:40,360
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, what.

2053
01:49:40,200 --> 01:49:42,120
Speaker 2: Was your what was your contender for the first song

2054
01:49:42,160 --> 01:49:47,439
Speaker 2: of the summer Satisfaction? Okay? Yeah, what was your other one?

2055
01:49:48,360 --> 01:49:51,400
Speaker 1: Maybe theme from a Summer Place by Percy Faith, which

2056
01:49:51,439 --> 01:49:54,479
Speaker 1: I want to see in sixty or sixty one.

2057
01:49:55,520 --> 01:49:57,880
Speaker 2: Okay. I have the actual Billboard list up here.

2058
01:49:58,439 --> 01:50:01,160
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, there were big songs in summers, but

2059
01:50:01,560 --> 01:50:04,280
Speaker 1: that's different than Song of the Summer, which is like

2060
01:50:04,360 --> 01:50:08,840
Speaker 1: a you know, like Umbrella was two thousand and eight,

2061
01:50:08,880 --> 01:50:10,360
Speaker 1: I want to say, or seven that might have been

2062
01:50:10,360 --> 01:50:13,080
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, like the huge songs that just

2063
01:50:13,120 --> 01:50:17,200
Speaker 1: define the summer. Satisfaction was argued defined the summer sixty five.

2064
01:50:17,400 --> 01:50:23,320
Speaker 2: Well, according to Billboard, you're wrong that whatever you just said,

2065
01:50:23,560 --> 01:50:26,880
Speaker 2: Percy Faith did not appear. It doesn't even appear on

2066
01:50:26,920 --> 01:50:30,680
Speaker 2: their list of top ten songs of the year. In

2067
01:50:30,760 --> 01:50:35,120
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty was I'm Sorry by Brenda Lee. Nope, number

2068
01:50:35,120 --> 01:50:39,120
Speaker 2: two summer It's Gonna be uplifting? Oh well, Ali Oop

2069
01:50:39,479 --> 01:50:43,120
Speaker 2: by the Hollywood Argyles, making its second appearance on this podcast,

2070
01:50:43,479 --> 01:50:46,720
Speaker 2: and followed by the actual song of the Summer of

2071
01:50:46,880 --> 01:50:51,560
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty it'sy Bitsy Tina Weeny yellow polka dot Bikini.

2072
01:50:51,320 --> 01:50:53,120
Speaker 1: Just qualified for being a novelty song.

2073
01:50:53,680 --> 01:50:55,280
Speaker 2: Walk Don't Run by the Ventures.

2074
01:50:55,320 --> 01:50:59,479
Speaker 1: Oh damn. I would say that transcends Song of Summer

2075
01:50:59,800 --> 01:51:01,439
Speaker 1: just being a killer song.

2076
01:51:01,960 --> 01:51:04,160
Speaker 2: All right, Well, if you're just gonna make up different rules,

2077
01:51:04,160 --> 01:51:07,080
Speaker 2: then let's go to nineteen sixty one. Okay, okay, sure,

2078
01:51:07,680 --> 01:51:09,360
Speaker 2: tossing and Turning by Bobby Lewis.

2079
01:51:09,439 --> 01:51:13,880
Speaker 1: That song goes, but it doesn't have the abiquity. I

2080
01:51:13,960 --> 01:51:16,800
Speaker 1: was there quarter to three by us Oh, that was

2081
01:51:16,960 --> 01:51:20,200
Speaker 1: also a great song. That's too it's too nebulous. It's

2082
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:22,920
Speaker 1: not like it's no a real melody to that song.

2083
01:51:22,960 --> 01:51:25,120
Speaker 1: It's just like a party song. So it was recorded

2084
01:51:25,160 --> 01:51:25,759
Speaker 1: at a party.

2085
01:51:26,439 --> 01:51:30,439
Speaker 2: The ball Weavil Song by Book Brenton. No Michael by

2086
01:51:30,439 --> 01:51:33,200
Speaker 2: the Highwayman. Oh god, no, it's like a folk song.

2087
01:51:34,320 --> 01:51:38,800
Speaker 2: Rain Drops d Clark. No Moody River by Pat Boone.

2088
01:51:39,000 --> 01:51:39,760
Speaker 1: Not moon River.

2089
01:51:40,520 --> 01:51:44,599
Speaker 2: No. No. Well, then by virtue of elimination, we're gonna

2090
01:51:44,640 --> 01:51:46,320
Speaker 2: have to go with last Night by the Marquis.

2091
01:51:47,320 --> 01:51:50,840
Speaker 1: That song goes, but that's another like garage rock, like

2092
01:51:50,880 --> 01:51:52,920
Speaker 1: it's not a song of the summer. Has to be

2093
01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:55,000
Speaker 1: almost cinematic, you know what I mean?

2094
01:51:55,400 --> 01:52:00,320
Speaker 2: Billboard clearly doesn't. Nineteen sixty two. Okay, I Can't Stop

2095
01:52:00,360 --> 01:52:02,920
Speaker 2: Loving You by Ray Charles. It has to be upbeat,

2096
01:52:03,320 --> 01:52:06,959
Speaker 2: the locomotion. Okay, we're getting closer, getting closer.

2097
01:52:07,240 --> 01:52:08,880
Speaker 1: That's the closest one we have so far.

2098
01:52:09,600 --> 01:52:12,960
Speaker 2: What's that in the whah WAHTUSI in nineteen sixty two?

2099
01:52:13,120 --> 01:52:14,280
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go ahead and give it to one

2100
01:52:14,280 --> 01:52:19,000
Speaker 2: of them. Okay. Nineteen sixty three, Yeah, pretty easy. It's

2101
01:52:19,120 --> 01:52:22,920
Speaker 2: Wipe Out by the Sufaris, or Surf City by Jan

2102
01:52:23,040 --> 01:52:25,599
Speaker 2: and Deine, or Fingertips Part two by Little Stevie.

2103
01:52:25,680 --> 01:52:25,880
Speaker 1: Wow.

2104
01:52:26,280 --> 01:52:28,960
Speaker 2: Okay, any of those I think could have qualified? I

2105
01:52:29,400 --> 01:52:31,880
Speaker 2: would are you never mind? But go ahead?

2106
01:52:31,960 --> 01:52:36,880
Speaker 1: Nothing nothing. It's not a melody based thing, are you

2107
01:52:37,040 --> 01:52:40,240
Speaker 1: talking about, charl Summer should be like the theme song

2108
01:52:40,320 --> 01:52:41,840
Speaker 1: to the greatest movie you've ever seen.

2109
01:52:42,800 --> 01:52:47,000
Speaker 2: Okay, it should paint pictures in your mind. Man, something

2110
01:52:47,040 --> 01:52:49,360
Speaker 2: called the bowl Weavil Summer doesn't do that for you.

2111
01:52:49,920 --> 01:52:53,439
Speaker 2: No bull Weavil song? Okay. Nineteen sixty four, Where did

2112
01:52:53,479 --> 01:52:57,200
Speaker 2: I Love Go? By the Supremes? I Get Around by

2113
01:52:57,240 --> 01:52:57,920
Speaker 2: the Beach Boys?

2114
01:52:58,760 --> 01:53:00,840
Speaker 1: Okay, getting Closer that's also good.

2115
01:53:01,479 --> 01:53:02,920
Speaker 2: Under the Boardwalk by the Drift.

2116
01:53:03,120 --> 01:53:06,360
Speaker 1: Oh, that's also really good. Okay, so we've glad we've

2117
01:53:06,360 --> 01:53:11,000
Speaker 1: settled it. I question the ubiquity of those songs, whereas.

2118
01:53:10,880 --> 01:53:13,920
Speaker 2: I'm getting this, I'm getting this right from Billboard.

2119
01:53:14,600 --> 01:53:17,760
Speaker 1: No, those are popular songs in the summer of blank year,

2120
01:53:18,080 --> 01:53:20,280
Speaker 1: as opposed to be the song of the summer.

2121
01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:25,000
Speaker 2: Okay. The tunes below a rank based on each track's

2122
01:53:25,040 --> 01:53:27,479
Speaker 2: performance on the Billboard Hot one hundred chart during the

2123
01:53:27,560 --> 01:53:31,479
Speaker 2: summer for the period through nineteen ninety one, prior to

2124
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:34,360
Speaker 2: the advent of illuminate radio monitoring point of sales data.

2125
01:53:34,439 --> 01:53:37,560
Speaker 2: The rankings are based on an inverse point system, with

2126
01:53:37,760 --> 01:53:41,720
Speaker 2: weeks at number one earning the greatest point value and

2127
01:53:41,840 --> 01:53:46,240
Speaker 2: weeks at lower ranks earning less. So off, every single

2128
01:53:46,280 --> 01:53:48,920
Speaker 2: one of those I listed first was actually the thing

2129
01:53:49,000 --> 01:53:50,719
Speaker 2: that sold the most during the summer.

2130
01:53:50,960 --> 01:53:51,640
Speaker 1: I'm picturing it.

2131
01:53:51,800 --> 01:53:55,040
Speaker 2: Is coming out of every car speakers in the way

2132
01:53:55,120 --> 01:53:57,959
Speaker 2: that we were talking about. I'm telling you that, according

2133
01:53:58,080 --> 01:54:01,320
Speaker 2: to the people who ran the chart, those songs I

2134
01:54:01,520 --> 01:54:05,840
Speaker 2: named wore that song Okay, okay, must have been really

2135
01:54:05,880 --> 01:54:07,599
Speaker 2: depressing to be a live in nineteen fifty nine when

2136
01:54:07,600 --> 01:54:09,840
Speaker 2: it was Lonely Boy by Paul Anka.

2137
01:54:09,760 --> 01:54:12,439
Speaker 1: Oh my friend, Paul Anka. How was the song of

2138
01:54:12,439 --> 01:54:12,840
Speaker 1: the summer?

2139
01:54:13,000 --> 01:54:15,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, in nineteen sixty it was I'm Sorry by Brenda Lee.

2140
01:54:16,360 --> 01:54:18,479
Speaker 2: Oh my friend Brenda. Oh Jesus Christ.

2141
01:54:20,880 --> 01:54:23,080
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right

2142
01:54:23,160 --> 01:54:25,719
Speaker 1: back with more. Too much information in just a moment.

2143
01:54:31,280 --> 01:54:40,320
Speaker 2: Wow, wow, Wow, where were you dragging this out?

2144
01:54:41,160 --> 01:54:44,080
Speaker 1: Well, there were all sorts of stupid interpretations about the

2145
01:54:44,200 --> 01:54:48,080
Speaker 1: lyrics Dissatisfaction. Apparently, a woman stopped the Stones at the

2146
01:54:48,120 --> 01:54:50,800
Speaker 1: airport and quized them about the line hey hey Hey,

2147
01:54:51,640 --> 01:54:54,600
Speaker 1: which she assumed meant hey hey hey as an h

2148
01:54:54,720 --> 01:55:01,840
Speaker 1: a y wow yeh grass, which is uniquely dumb, more dumb,

2149
01:55:01,880 --> 01:55:04,640
Speaker 1: in fact, than Bob Dylan thinking that the Beatles smoked

2150
01:55:04,720 --> 01:55:06,600
Speaker 1: pot after hearing the line on I want to hold

2151
01:55:06,640 --> 01:55:09,920
Speaker 1: your hand, it's such a feeling that my love I

2152
01:55:10,040 --> 01:55:12,760
Speaker 1: can't hide, which he thought was it's such a feeling

2153
01:55:12,800 --> 01:55:16,280
Speaker 1: that my love I get high, Yeah yeah, which would

2154
01:55:16,280 --> 01:55:18,240
Speaker 1: have been advanced for that song was released in like

2155
01:55:18,280 --> 01:55:20,720
Speaker 1: December sixty three, so that's it would have been pretty

2156
01:55:20,760 --> 01:55:24,480
Speaker 1: daring had they actually meant that. Amusingly, forty years after

2157
01:55:24,600 --> 01:55:28,320
Speaker 1: Satisfaction was released, the Stones performed three songs during Super

2158
01:55:28,320 --> 01:55:32,400
Speaker 1: Bowl XCEL in February two thousand and six. Satisfaction was

2159
01:55:32,440 --> 01:55:34,919
Speaker 1: the only one of the three songs that wasn't censored

2160
01:55:35,440 --> 01:55:38,840
Speaker 1: when it was broadcast. They censored Start Me Up for

2161
01:55:39,000 --> 01:55:43,480
Speaker 1: the Grown Man, Come of It All, and the song

2162
01:55:43,640 --> 01:55:46,120
Speaker 1: rough Justice, which I don't know is a new song

2163
01:55:46,160 --> 01:55:49,080
Speaker 1: of Theirs that I don't remember what the lines.

2164
01:55:48,840 --> 01:55:52,400
Speaker 2: Are, man, it doesn't sound very good. No rough justice,

2165
01:55:53,040 --> 01:55:55,680
Speaker 2: you guys doling out or at the receiving end of

2166
01:55:55,720 --> 01:55:57,280
Speaker 2: a lot of rough justice these days.

2167
01:55:57,360 --> 01:55:59,600
Speaker 1: Well, as we'll talk about, the Stones kind of had

2168
01:55:59,640 --> 01:56:02,840
Speaker 1: their own like self policing unit when they were on

2169
01:56:02,920 --> 01:56:05,320
Speaker 1: the road, Like whenever there were things that they had

2170
01:56:05,400 --> 01:56:09,160
Speaker 1: to like settle amongst themselves, they usually locked themselves in

2171
01:56:09,200 --> 01:56:13,360
Speaker 1: a hotel room and had like a little utofficial judicial committee. Well,

2172
01:56:13,400 --> 01:56:15,920
Speaker 1: we'll talk more about that in a little bit, but

2173
01:56:16,040 --> 01:56:18,080
Speaker 1: it's interesting. They had this in nineteen sixty five in

2174
01:56:18,120 --> 01:56:20,440
Speaker 1: the American tour, and they had this seven years later

2175
01:56:20,520 --> 01:56:22,960
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventy two tour of the United States

2176
01:56:23,920 --> 01:56:25,880
Speaker 1: and people got messed up.

2177
01:56:28,800 --> 01:56:31,080
Speaker 2: The make some Girl line was in fact bleeped out

2178
01:56:31,120 --> 01:56:33,800
Speaker 2: during the band's appearance on the ABC variety show Shindig

2179
01:56:34,000 --> 01:56:38,160
Speaker 2: on May twentieth, nineteen sixty five. Jordan's mother was ten

2180
01:56:38,520 --> 01:56:39,280
Speaker 2: on that day.

2181
01:56:39,400 --> 01:56:42,080
Speaker 1: Yes, turn ten that day, Yes, Friend of the Pod Shindig,

2182
01:56:42,760 --> 01:56:44,680
Speaker 1: Front of the Pod, Chris Runtalk and Friend of the

2183
01:56:44,720 --> 01:56:45,800
Speaker 1: Pod Shindig.

2184
01:56:46,800 --> 01:56:49,680
Speaker 2: This is weeks before Satisfaction had actually been released, and

2185
01:56:49,800 --> 01:56:52,160
Speaker 2: it is thought to be the television premiere of the song.

2186
01:56:52,720 --> 01:56:57,000
Speaker 2: It is performed, However, without the fuzzbox. As previously mentioned,

2187
01:56:57,040 --> 01:56:59,560
Speaker 2: Keith had only intended that to be a placeholder for horns,

2188
01:56:59,640 --> 01:57:01,880
Speaker 2: and still had not accepted that it was a crucial

2189
01:57:01,960 --> 01:57:02,960
Speaker 2: part of the song.

2190
01:57:03,280 --> 01:57:05,440
Speaker 1: He had not accepted the fuzzbox into his heart as

2191
01:57:05,480 --> 01:57:06,320
Speaker 1: his Lord and savior.

2192
01:57:06,640 --> 01:57:09,520
Speaker 2: He had non As part of their agreement for appearing

2193
01:57:09,560 --> 01:57:12,320
Speaker 2: on the program, the band insisted to producers that formative

2194
01:57:12,360 --> 01:57:15,640
Speaker 2: Delta Blues icon Howland Wolf be a guest among them

2195
01:57:15,960 --> 01:57:19,080
Speaker 2: one of the coolest things that they ever did. Brian

2196
01:57:19,160 --> 01:57:22,160
Speaker 2: Jones introduced his performance of how Many More Years, which

2197
01:57:22,280 --> 01:57:25,480
Speaker 2: is one of the most fascinating crossovers and mid sixties

2198
01:57:25,560 --> 01:57:28,040
Speaker 2: television this side of the j justins meeting the Flintstones

2199
01:57:28,920 --> 01:57:31,600
Speaker 2: during the rehearsals, though, Holene Wolf took Mick aside and said,

2200
01:57:31,600 --> 01:57:33,680
Speaker 2: I want you to meet someone. He took him into

2201
01:57:33,680 --> 01:57:36,560
Speaker 2: the audience and introduced him to Son House, the man

2202
01:57:36,600 --> 01:57:39,200
Speaker 2: who had done the original version of Little Red Rooster,

2203
01:57:39,760 --> 01:57:41,600
Speaker 2: which is the blue standard that the Stones had taken

2204
01:57:41,600 --> 01:57:44,760
Speaker 2: to number one in England a few months before. Howland

2205
01:57:44,840 --> 01:57:48,080
Speaker 2: Wolf introduced Mick to sun House by saying, this is

2206
01:57:48,120 --> 01:57:51,480
Speaker 2: the man who did the original Little Red Rooster. Mayck

2207
01:57:51,520 --> 01:57:54,560
Speaker 2: had enough wherewithal to fear that son House might have

2208
01:57:54,600 --> 01:57:57,720
Speaker 2: been pissed, and was probably pissed in both senses of

2209
01:57:57,800 --> 01:58:02,000
Speaker 2: the word. I think this is into his wet brain era.

2210
01:58:03,720 --> 01:58:07,560
Speaker 2: Sun House was reportedly very gracious about this, though he says,

2211
01:58:07,600 --> 01:58:10,040
Speaker 2: don't you worry about copy and Little Red Rooster because

2212
01:58:10,040 --> 01:58:12,480
Speaker 2: I wasn't the first one to do it, which might

2213
01:58:12,560 --> 01:58:16,360
Speaker 2: actually be true because Sunhouse, I think was Charlie Patten's

2214
01:58:16,960 --> 01:58:22,040
Speaker 2: protege or contemporary, so he might have gotten it from

2215
01:58:23,000 --> 01:58:25,480
Speaker 2: sun House, which is one of the ways that people

2216
01:58:25,840 --> 01:58:27,920
Speaker 2: got songs associated with them. They just learned them from

2217
01:58:27,960 --> 01:58:31,280
Speaker 2: other guys. But despite its global success, Satisfaction did not

2218
01:58:31,440 --> 01:58:34,200
Speaker 2: earn the band praise from his circle of British blues

2219
01:58:34,360 --> 01:58:38,040
Speaker 2: purists who with their peers in the early sixties. Chris Barber,

2220
01:58:38,200 --> 01:58:40,800
Speaker 2: a major figure in that scene, expressed his displeasure about

2221
01:58:40,800 --> 01:58:42,880
Speaker 2: the song when speaking to author Rich Cohen in the

2222
01:58:43,000 --> 01:58:47,000
Speaker 2: aforementioned Sun Moon and Rolling Stones book It's Not Real.

2223
01:58:47,200 --> 01:58:50,480
Speaker 2: He said of Mick and Keith's music, specifically Satisfaction, and

2224
01:58:50,600 --> 01:58:52,800
Speaker 2: the sad thing is they were capable of the real thing,

2225
01:58:53,120 --> 01:58:54,960
Speaker 2: but they found something else which is not real but

2226
01:58:55,040 --> 01:58:57,600
Speaker 2: makes them an awful lot of money, and everybody else

2227
01:58:57,680 --> 01:58:59,640
Speaker 2: makes a lot of money on it too, so everybody

2228
01:58:59,720 --> 01:59:02,000
Speaker 2: likes it, but it's not real, and if you are

2229
01:59:02,000 --> 01:59:05,240
Speaker 2: a serious musician, you know it's not real. I've always

2230
01:59:05,280 --> 01:59:08,280
Speaker 2: found that annoying. Calling an original song not real when

2231
01:59:08,560 --> 01:59:11,960
Speaker 2: you are a cover artist kind of stupid. Another person

2232
01:59:12,040 --> 01:59:14,000
Speaker 2: who apparently hated the song was one of Mick and

2233
01:59:14,080 --> 01:59:17,160
Speaker 2: Keith's own band mates. As you mentioned at the top

2234
01:59:17,200 --> 01:59:19,880
Speaker 2: of the episode, the Rolling Stones had been originally been

2235
01:59:20,600 --> 01:59:25,840
Speaker 2: the tiny, furious, well dressed father of a thousand Bastards,

2236
01:59:26,000 --> 01:59:30,080
Speaker 2: Brian Jones. From the group's earliest days, he was the star.

2237
01:59:30,760 --> 01:59:32,480
Speaker 2: He had been mentored by one of the biggest blues

2238
01:59:32,520 --> 01:59:36,400
Speaker 2: figures in London, Alexis Corner. But Jones's inability to write

2239
01:59:36,440 --> 01:59:38,960
Speaker 2: his own songs, which was deemed crucial following the rise

2240
01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:41,360
Speaker 2: of Lennon McCartney the British music scene, led to a

2241
01:59:41,440 --> 01:59:44,800
Speaker 2: power shift within the band from him to Jagger and

2242
01:59:44,920 --> 01:59:50,560
Speaker 2: Richard's engineered As previously mentioned by Andrew lug e Oldham,

2243
01:59:51,520 --> 01:59:53,640
Speaker 2: the material that the Glimmer Twins were turning out of

2244
01:59:53,680 --> 01:59:55,920
Speaker 2: this point were more poppy than what Brian Jones would

2245
01:59:55,920 --> 01:59:59,120
Speaker 2: have liked. Brian never felt right about it, Barbara continued

2246
01:59:59,160 --> 02:00:01,200
Speaker 2: in Cohen's book, it was clear to anyone who knew

2247
02:00:01,280 --> 02:00:04,760
Speaker 2: him has led to a serious schism within the band,

2248
02:00:04,840 --> 02:00:06,840
Speaker 2: with Brian on one side and making Keith on the other.

2249
02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:10,240
Speaker 2: No one knows how Charlie and Bill felt, because they

2250
02:00:10,280 --> 02:00:12,600
Speaker 2: were the rhythm section and asleep most of the time,

2251
02:00:13,840 --> 02:00:17,080
Speaker 2: often on stage. Brian's discomfort over this dynamic, not to

2252
02:00:17,120 --> 02:00:19,160
Speaker 2: mention the depression that resulted from feeling though, as his

2253
02:00:19,280 --> 02:00:21,560
Speaker 2: band had been taken out from under him, led Brian

2254
02:00:21,640 --> 02:00:24,880
Speaker 2: to abuse drugs and alcohol in great quantities, and women,

2255
02:00:25,200 --> 02:00:26,960
Speaker 2: and he was apparently not a great guy, even at

2256
02:00:27,000 --> 02:00:30,280
Speaker 2: the best of the situations. Keith himself would bluntly say

2257
02:00:30,560 --> 02:00:33,920
Speaker 2: he was not a good man, and Charlie Watts roused

2258
02:00:34,000 --> 02:00:37,680
Speaker 2: himself to offer an even less varnish take he was

2259
02:00:37,760 --> 02:00:41,640
Speaker 2: a little prick. Brian Jones father at least four children

2260
02:00:41,680 --> 02:00:44,040
Speaker 2: with four different women, though some estimates put this number

2261
02:00:44,040 --> 02:00:46,720
Speaker 2: as high as six, and rejected all of the children

2262
02:00:46,760 --> 02:00:49,640
Speaker 2: that he knew about, although he did make poultry financial

2263
02:00:49,680 --> 02:00:53,520
Speaker 2: settlements in some cases. One former girlfriend, Valerie Corbett, gave

2264
02:00:53,520 --> 02:00:55,960
Speaker 2: birth to a son in nineteen sixty one named Julian

2265
02:00:56,000 --> 02:01:01,160
Speaker 2: Mark Andrews Jones acknowledged him but never supported the son financially.

2266
02:01:01,880 --> 02:01:05,880
Speaker 2: Another girlfriend, Linda Lawrence, had Jones's son, also named Julian,

2267
02:01:05,920 --> 02:01:08,880
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty four. That child was later adopted by

2268
02:01:08,920 --> 02:01:13,280
Speaker 2: the singer Donovan, whom Linda Lawrence married. Then, in nineteen

2269
02:01:13,320 --> 02:01:15,720
Speaker 2: sixty five, Jones reportedly paid a lump sum of seven

2270
02:01:15,800 --> 02:01:18,640
Speaker 2: hundred pounds to sell a paternity suit with a teenage girlfriend,

2271
02:01:18,680 --> 02:01:20,800
Speaker 2: with the condition that he have no contact with a child.

2272
02:01:21,600 --> 02:01:24,720
Speaker 2: Yet another alleged son, Simon Jones, has since spoken out

2273
02:01:24,720 --> 02:01:28,400
Speaker 2: about the emotional toll of being kept a secret. Jones's

2274
02:01:28,400 --> 02:01:30,960
Speaker 2: wild lifestyle and reluctance to face fatherhood meant that many

2275
02:01:31,000 --> 02:01:34,200
Speaker 2: of his relationships ended in estrangement or private legal wrangling.

2276
02:01:34,880 --> 02:01:37,680
Speaker 2: Decades later, The mystery of how many children he truly

2277
02:01:37,760 --> 02:01:40,600
Speaker 2: fathered and how many were quietly paid off still lingers

2278
02:01:40,680 --> 02:01:43,360
Speaker 2: as part of his so so stupid legacy.

2279
02:01:45,160 --> 02:01:48,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm not exactly an A plus human, but uh,

2280
02:01:48,440 --> 02:01:51,600
Speaker 1: don't take my word for it. Let's hear what three

2281
02:01:51,680 --> 02:01:54,320
Speaker 1: of the four Beatles had to say about Brian Jones.

2282
02:01:54,400 --> 02:01:55,720
Speaker 2: Shall we get his ass?

2283
02:01:56,200 --> 02:02:00,480
Speaker 1: Yes, it's George Harrison, per the Beatles' anthology book. I

2284
02:02:00,640 --> 02:02:02,480
Speaker 1: used to see Brian in the clubs and hang out

2285
02:02:02,520 --> 02:02:05,120
Speaker 1: with him. In the mid sixties, he used to come

2286
02:02:05,160 --> 02:02:08,880
Speaker 1: to my house, particularly when he got the fear when

2287
02:02:08,960 --> 02:02:11,040
Speaker 1: he mixed too many weird things together.

2288
02:02:12,160 --> 02:02:14,680
Speaker 2: I love George so much. I mean, that's a have

2289
02:02:14,800 --> 02:02:19,200
Speaker 2: you night, no, but that's a very real concern. I'd

2290
02:02:19,240 --> 02:02:23,000
Speaker 2: hear his voice shouting to me from out in the garden, George, George.

2291
02:02:23,560 --> 02:02:25,120
Speaker 1: I'd let him in. He was a good mate.

2292
02:02:25,720 --> 02:02:27,240
Speaker 2: He would always come around to my house.

2293
02:02:27,320 --> 02:02:30,240
Speaker 1: In the Setar period. We talked about Painted Black and

2294
02:02:30,320 --> 02:02:32,280
Speaker 1: he picked up my star and tried to play it.

2295
02:02:32,720 --> 02:02:35,120
Speaker 1: And the next thing was he did that track. We

2296
02:02:35,240 --> 02:02:36,920
Speaker 1: had a lot in common when I think about it.

2297
02:02:37,360 --> 02:02:39,880
Speaker 1: We shared the same date of birth or nearly so

2298
02:02:40,000 --> 02:02:42,480
Speaker 1: he must have been a Pisces as well. We also

2299
02:02:42,520 --> 02:02:44,960
Speaker 1: share the same positions in the most prominent bands in

2300
02:02:45,000 --> 02:02:47,880
Speaker 1: the universe, him with Mick and Keith and me with

2301
02:02:47,960 --> 02:02:50,480
Speaker 1: Paul and John. I think he related to me a lot,

2302
02:02:50,520 --> 02:02:53,160
Speaker 1: and I liked him. Some people didn't have time for him,

2303
02:02:53,240 --> 02:02:55,200
Speaker 1: but I thought he was one of the most interesting ones.

2304
02:02:56,320 --> 02:02:59,160
Speaker 1: And then Paul per the anthology book. Brian was a

2305
02:02:59,240 --> 02:03:03,040
Speaker 1: nervous guy, very shy, quite serious and maybe into drugs

2306
02:03:03,080 --> 02:03:04,720
Speaker 1: a little more than he should have been, because he

2307
02:03:04,800 --> 02:03:07,480
Speaker 1: used to shake a bit. We knew he was on heroin.

2308
02:03:08,120 --> 02:03:12,120
Speaker 1: He was lovely though, and John, speaking the Rolling Stone

2309
02:03:12,200 --> 02:03:15,400
Speaker 1: magazine in nineteen seventy, said Brian was different over the

2310
02:03:15,480 --> 02:03:18,240
Speaker 1: years as he disintegrated. He ended up the kind of

2311
02:03:18,320 --> 02:03:20,640
Speaker 1: guy that you dread he'd come on the phone because

2312
02:03:20,680 --> 02:03:22,800
Speaker 1: he knew it was trouble. He was in a lot

2313
02:03:22,840 --> 02:03:25,240
Speaker 1: of pain. But in the early days he was all

2314
02:03:25,360 --> 02:03:28,040
Speaker 1: right because he was young and confident. He was one

2315
02:03:28,080 --> 02:03:30,920
Speaker 1: of those guys that disintegrates in front of you. He

2316
02:03:31,080 --> 02:03:34,120
Speaker 1: was all right, not brilliant or anything, just a nice

2317
02:03:34,160 --> 02:03:37,920
Speaker 1: guy narrator voice. That's not what his bandmate said.

2318
02:03:38,360 --> 02:03:41,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say. I was hoping for more savagery.

2319
02:03:41,360 --> 02:03:44,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. He just died like less than a year or

2320
02:03:44,400 --> 02:03:47,320
Speaker 1: about a year before that. And John was in his

2321
02:03:48,200 --> 02:03:50,840
Speaker 1: primal scream era, so he probably saw somebody else who

2322
02:03:50,880 --> 02:03:52,840
Speaker 1: was in a ton of pain and them like maybe

2323
02:03:52,880 --> 02:03:55,920
Speaker 1: took more of a more sympathy towards him than he

2324
02:03:56,000 --> 02:03:56,720
Speaker 1: ordinarily would have.

2325
02:03:57,200 --> 02:04:00,720
Speaker 2: Well, recognizing that Brian was clearly in some kind of psychological, spiritual,

2326
02:04:00,840 --> 02:04:03,320
Speaker 2: or chemical distress, the Beatles reacted the way that most

2327
02:04:03,400 --> 02:04:05,960
Speaker 2: men in their early twenties would do. They started to

2328
02:04:06,080 --> 02:04:10,520
Speaker 2: feed Brian Yeah. John Lennon had a PA system installed

2329
02:04:10,560 --> 02:04:12,400
Speaker 2: in his Rolls Royce the mid sixties, which he would

2330
02:04:12,480 --> 02:04:15,879
Speaker 2: use primarily for his own amusement. Keith Moon, as an example,

2331
02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:19,520
Speaker 2: did something similar. Paul says that in this period he

2332
02:04:19,600 --> 02:04:22,160
Speaker 2: and John would leave late night recording sessions in John's

2333
02:04:22,280 --> 02:04:24,720
Speaker 2: rolls and speed through the London suburbs at two or

2334
02:04:24,760 --> 02:04:27,280
Speaker 2: three in the morning. They would be tailing George, a

2335
02:04:27,440 --> 02:04:31,320
Speaker 2: future Formula one enthusiast who loved driving his Ferraris at

2336
02:04:31,360 --> 02:04:33,880
Speaker 2: high speeds. John would then get on the mic and

2337
02:04:33,880 --> 02:04:36,320
Speaker 2: adopt the tone of a constable driving a police chase.

2338
02:04:36,680 --> 02:04:39,200
Speaker 2: It is foolish to resist. It is foolish to resist

2339
02:04:39,440 --> 02:04:43,240
Speaker 2: pull over. As Paul remembered it in Anthology, it was insane.

2340
02:04:43,600 --> 02:04:45,680
Speaker 2: All the lights would go on in the houses went past.

2341
02:04:45,880 --> 02:04:48,600
Speaker 2: Must have freaked everybody out, and more to the point,

2342
02:04:49,000 --> 02:04:51,000
Speaker 2: one day they used this tricked out roles to terrify

2343
02:04:51,080 --> 02:04:53,760
Speaker 2: Brian Jones. As we were going through Regent's Park and

2344
02:04:53,800 --> 02:04:55,400
Speaker 2: a way to North London to do a session. We

2345
02:04:55,480 --> 02:04:58,520
Speaker 2: were in John's roles. Suddenly we pulled up behind Brian Jones,

2346
02:04:58,520 --> 02:05:00,839
Speaker 2: who was sitting quietly in the back of his Austin Princess.

2347
02:05:01,880 --> 02:05:04,120
Speaker 2: John had been a very funny guy, and he shouted

2348
02:05:04,160 --> 02:05:06,960
Speaker 2: through the microphone, Brian Jones, do not move. You have

2349
02:05:07,040 --> 02:05:10,560
Speaker 2: been under surveillance. You are under arrest. Brian leaped up

2350
02:05:10,560 --> 02:05:12,800
Speaker 2: about eight feet and went as white as a sheet, going,

2351
02:05:12,880 --> 02:05:15,040
Speaker 2: oh my god, Oh my god. Then he saw it

2352
02:05:15,160 --> 02:05:18,640
Speaker 2: was us, you bunch of bastards. It nearly killed him

2353
02:05:18,680 --> 02:05:22,480
Speaker 2: that day. John was so official sounding. That's pretty funn

2354
02:05:22,680 --> 02:05:25,200
Speaker 2: So yes, Brian Jones was a man in crisis, and

2355
02:05:25,240 --> 02:05:27,000
Speaker 2: it was sparked in large part by the success. And

2356
02:05:27,080 --> 02:05:30,760
Speaker 2: I can't get no satisfaction. One illustrated example set into

2357
02:05:30,760 --> 02:05:33,640
Speaker 2: the aforementioned book by Stephen Davis, Old God's Almost Dead

2358
02:05:33,920 --> 02:05:36,000
Speaker 2: supposedly went down on the same day Mick and Keith

2359
02:05:36,040 --> 02:05:39,520
Speaker 2: were finalizing the lyrics to satisfaction by that Florida swimming

2360
02:05:39,560 --> 02:05:42,280
Speaker 2: pool feels a little too on the nose, but print

2361
02:05:42,360 --> 02:05:45,640
Speaker 2: the legend. That night, Brian apparently met a model at

2362
02:05:45,640 --> 02:05:47,520
Speaker 2: the hotel bar and brought her back to his room.

2363
02:05:48,160 --> 02:05:50,880
Speaker 2: The following morning, she emerged covered in bruises with both

2364
02:05:50,960 --> 02:05:54,560
Speaker 2: eyes blackened. She told her girlfriend, who had spent the

2365
02:05:54,680 --> 02:05:56,960
Speaker 2: night with Bill Wyman that Brian beat her up and

2366
02:05:57,080 --> 02:06:00,240
Speaker 2: raped her. She was dissuaded from calling the cops. But

2367
02:06:00,360 --> 02:06:03,360
Speaker 2: on this tour, the stones Coterie had their own internal

2368
02:06:03,520 --> 02:06:04,080
Speaker 2: justice system.

2369
02:06:04,320 --> 02:06:06,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, this has been confirmed to me by people who

2370
02:06:06,400 --> 02:06:09,440
Speaker 1: toured with the Stones. They did not bring police into things.

2371
02:06:09,520 --> 02:06:12,320
Speaker 1: They handled things among themselves, not unlike the mafia.

2372
02:06:12,520 --> 02:06:15,240
Speaker 2: So after this incident, one of the Stones roadies stormed

2373
02:06:15,280 --> 02:06:18,280
Speaker 2: into Brian's room and, according to Davis, broke two of

2374
02:06:18,320 --> 02:06:21,400
Speaker 2: his ribs. Jones was taken to a nearby hospital where

2375
02:06:21,400 --> 02:06:24,160
Speaker 2: he was taped up and given painkillers, and the band

2376
02:06:24,240 --> 02:06:26,520
Speaker 2: made up a story that he'd fallen while practicing karate

2377
02:06:26,640 --> 02:06:30,120
Speaker 2: by the hotel swimming pool. To quote Davis, he spent

2378
02:06:30,160 --> 02:06:32,760
Speaker 2: the rest of the tour depressed and isolated, whacked out

2379
02:06:32,840 --> 02:06:34,200
Speaker 2: on pills and booze.

2380
02:06:35,800 --> 02:06:38,920
Speaker 1: Because of this, it seems unlikely that Brian Jones actually

2381
02:06:39,000 --> 02:06:42,680
Speaker 1: played on the track Satisfaction. Producer Andrew lou Goldham isn't

2382
02:06:42,680 --> 02:06:46,000
Speaker 1: sure himself, but it wasn't just the track that marked

2383
02:06:46,000 --> 02:06:48,720
Speaker 1: the turning point. It was the scale of the song's success.

2384
02:06:49,520 --> 02:06:52,680
Speaker 1: When Satisfaction hit number one, it signals seismic shift in

2385
02:06:52,720 --> 02:06:55,720
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones power structure. Mick and Keith were now

2386
02:06:55,800 --> 02:06:59,760
Speaker 1: firmly in control, and Brian had been sidelined. He would

2387
02:06:59,800 --> 02:07:02,440
Speaker 1: never again lead the band or occupy center stage, and

2388
02:07:02,520 --> 02:07:06,840
Speaker 1: the loss devastated him. That summer, his behavior became increasingly erratic.

2389
02:07:07,360 --> 02:07:10,720
Speaker 1: He drank heavily, turned violent and sullen, and often lashed

2390
02:07:10,760 --> 02:07:13,960
Speaker 1: out or disappeared entirely. During the La stop of their

2391
02:07:14,000 --> 02:07:16,880
Speaker 1: spring tour in the United States, Brian was given orange

2392
02:07:16,920 --> 02:07:20,760
Speaker 1: Sunshine acid by Ken Keasey's Mary Pranksters, who came down

2393
02:07:20,840 --> 02:07:24,240
Speaker 1: from San Francisco to party with the Stones. Brian went

2394
02:07:24,320 --> 02:07:26,720
Speaker 1: missing for so long that they nearly missed the next

2395
02:07:26,760 --> 02:07:30,240
Speaker 1: gig in San Diego. The next day, the Birds, their

2396
02:07:30,280 --> 02:07:34,200
Speaker 1: opening act, played Stone songs to prevent a riot whenever

2397
02:07:34,280 --> 02:07:37,000
Speaker 1: the band performed Satisfaction. After to become a massive hit,

2398
02:07:37,480 --> 02:07:40,960
Speaker 1: Brian mockingly vamped on the theme to Popeye the Sailor Man,

2399
02:07:41,080 --> 02:07:43,800
Speaker 1: which he was convinced the song sounded like. It was

2400
02:07:43,840 --> 02:07:46,920
Speaker 1: a move that provoked at least one furious backstage fight.

2401
02:07:47,840 --> 02:07:50,480
Speaker 1: To Brian, it wasn't just a joke, it was a protest.

2402
02:07:51,160 --> 02:07:54,760
Speaker 1: He saw Mick and Keith's growing creative dominance, encouraged by

2403
02:07:54,960 --> 02:07:57,720
Speaker 1: their manager Andrew Lou Goldham as a direct threat to

2404
02:07:57,840 --> 02:08:01,200
Speaker 1: his identity as the band's original leader, and now pushed

2405
02:08:01,280 --> 02:08:05,640
Speaker 1: the sidelines. He felt the cold edge of exclusion, and

2406
02:08:05,720 --> 02:08:08,480
Speaker 1: this would get worse in the case of Keith Richards, who,

2407
02:08:08,560 --> 02:08:12,600
Speaker 1: after stealing Brian's band, stole his girlfriend, Anita Pallenberg.

2408
02:08:13,080 --> 02:08:16,520
Speaker 2: You know the story, Yeah, I've heard some of it.

2409
02:08:16,840 --> 02:08:17,040
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2410
02:08:18,080 --> 02:08:20,840
Speaker 1: So Anita Pallenberg first crossed pass with the Rolling Stones

2411
02:08:20,880 --> 02:08:23,080
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty five when she snuck into one of

2412
02:08:23,120 --> 02:08:27,320
Speaker 1: the band's concerts in Munich, Germany. This exquisitely beautiful twenty

2413
02:08:27,360 --> 02:08:29,880
Speaker 1: one year old model was able to talk her way backstage,

2414
02:08:29,920 --> 02:08:33,080
Speaker 1: where she quickly hit it off with Jones. The fact

2415
02:08:33,120 --> 02:08:36,920
Speaker 1: that Jones spoke German certainly helped Ooh, when you're that

2416
02:08:37,040 --> 02:08:38,800
Speaker 1: blonde and you speak germanly, you don't.

2417
02:08:38,640 --> 02:08:39,760
Speaker 2: Have to that's interesting.

2418
02:08:42,600 --> 02:08:45,400
Speaker 1: I needed produced Amle nitrates or Amle poppers from her

2419
02:08:45,480 --> 02:08:48,200
Speaker 1: purse and offered them around. Jones was the only one

2420
02:08:48,240 --> 02:08:51,040
Speaker 1: who accepted. I don't know who you are, but I

2421
02:08:51,200 --> 02:08:54,520
Speaker 1: need you the beasatted guitarist told her, that's a good line.

2422
02:08:54,840 --> 02:08:57,200
Speaker 2: That's a good line. We look at Brian Jones at least. Yeah,

2423
02:08:57,440 --> 02:09:00,320
Speaker 2: somewhat diffused by the fact that he was four feet tall. Yeah,

2424
02:09:01,600 --> 02:09:02,080
Speaker 2: but anyway.

2425
02:09:02,080 --> 02:09:05,320
Speaker 1: After meeting Anita Pallenberg, the returned to his hotel, but

2426
02:09:05,440 --> 02:09:09,640
Speaker 1: instead of a night of torrid passion, Pallenberg held Jones

2427
02:09:09,800 --> 02:09:13,480
Speaker 1: while he apparently sobbed hurt by a perceived slight by

2428
02:09:13,520 --> 02:09:18,200
Speaker 1: his bandmates. The rift between Jones and the Two Stones

2429
02:09:18,240 --> 02:09:23,040
Speaker 1: front man would intensify. Pallenberg and Jones quickly became an item, or,

2430
02:09:23,080 --> 02:09:26,840
Speaker 1: as she later recalled, I decided to kidnap Brian. Brian

2431
02:09:26,960 --> 02:09:31,160
Speaker 1: seems sexually the most flexible. Now, there's a couple ways

2432
02:09:31,200 --> 02:09:31,920
Speaker 1: that could be read.

2433
02:09:32,360 --> 02:09:38,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, picking on that now, the fashionista would have

2434
02:09:38,160 --> 02:09:41,160
Speaker 5: a marked effect on the reticent Jones' style, cutting his

2435
02:09:41,240 --> 02:09:44,280
Speaker 5: hair into a delicate blonde bob and encouraging him to

2436
02:09:44,400 --> 02:09:46,560
Speaker 5: dawn flamboyant androgynous attire.

2437
02:09:47,480 --> 02:09:50,720
Speaker 1: They swapped outfits and jewelry on a regular basis, setting

2438
02:09:50,800 --> 02:09:53,360
Speaker 1: trends in the hit fashion districts of Carnaby Street and

2439
02:09:53,480 --> 02:09:57,400
Speaker 1: King's Road. She once summed up her style as boots, belts,

2440
02:09:57,720 --> 02:10:01,160
Speaker 1: cashmere hats, sunglasses and furs as well.

2441
02:10:01,480 --> 02:10:04,600
Speaker 2: It's kind of mine too, Yeah, for all the.

2442
02:10:04,640 --> 02:10:07,720
Speaker 1: Color for clothes, she introduced a dark edge to the band,

2443
02:10:07,920 --> 02:10:11,600
Speaker 1: turning them onto a cult imagery and encouraging them to embrace.

2444
02:10:11,320 --> 02:10:15,720
Speaker 2: Quote evil as a subject matter. Yes, the Rolling.

2445
02:10:15,480 --> 02:10:18,400
Speaker 1: Stones nineteen sixty eight hit Simpathy for the Devil is

2446
02:10:18,520 --> 02:10:21,680
Speaker 1: largely her inspiration. She lends her voice to the who

2447
02:10:21,960 --> 02:10:27,000
Speaker 1: who on the backing vocals. Filmmaker Kenneth Anger no stranger

2448
02:10:27,040 --> 02:10:30,360
Speaker 1: to the demonic himself. The film Lucifer Rising is arguably

2449
02:10:30,440 --> 02:10:33,240
Speaker 1: his most famous work. Once said, I believe Anita is,

2450
02:10:33,400 --> 02:10:37,080
Speaker 1: for want of a better word, a witch. Photographer Tony Sanchez,

2451
02:10:37,880 --> 02:10:40,040
Speaker 1: a longtime assistant to the band that he was known

2452
02:10:40,040 --> 02:10:45,000
Speaker 1: as Spanish Tony agreed. She was obsessed with black magic

2453
02:10:45,080 --> 02:10:47,720
Speaker 1: and began carrying a string of garlic with her everywhere,

2454
02:10:47,840 --> 02:10:50,520
Speaker 1: even to bed to word off vampires. He wrote in

2455
02:10:50,640 --> 02:10:56,720
Speaker 1: his largely debunked memoir. She also had a strange, mysterious

2456
02:10:56,760 --> 02:10:59,680
Speaker 1: old shaker for holy water, which she used for some

2457
02:10:59,720 --> 02:11:03,840
Speaker 1: of her rituals. Her ceremonies became increasingly secret, and she

2458
02:11:03,960 --> 02:11:07,080
Speaker 1: warned me never to rupt her when she was working.

2459
02:11:06,840 --> 02:11:09,640
Speaker 2: On a spell. I mean, come on, that's it just

2460
02:11:09,880 --> 02:11:17,280
Speaker 2: sounds like a woman in Bushwick. We've all dealt with

2461
02:11:17,440 --> 02:11:21,720
Speaker 2: witchy women in one way or another. Yeah we have yeah, Yeah,

2462
02:11:21,760 --> 02:11:28,880
Speaker 2: we have yeah, to varying degrees of success. By nineteen

2463
02:11:28,920 --> 02:11:31,400
Speaker 2: sixty seven, Jones and Pallenberg were one of the hottest

2464
02:11:31,480 --> 02:11:33,480
Speaker 2: couples in London, but their drug use took a toll

2465
02:11:33,560 --> 02:11:36,920
Speaker 2: on the relationship. They began to experiment with LSD, which

2466
02:11:36,920 --> 02:11:40,120
Speaker 2: had a disastrous effect on Joan's tenuous mental state, giving

2467
02:11:40,200 --> 02:11:43,360
Speaker 2: him horrible nightmares. He was also prone to jealous rages

2468
02:11:43,400 --> 02:11:46,640
Speaker 2: that often turned violent. He was short but very strong,

2469
02:11:46,760 --> 02:11:49,839
Speaker 2: and his assaults were terrible. She later said, for days afterwards,

2470
02:11:49,880 --> 02:11:52,760
Speaker 2: I'd have lumps and bruises all over me. In his tantrums,

2471
02:11:52,760 --> 02:11:56,680
Speaker 2: he would throw things at me whatever he could pick up, lamps, clocks, chairs,

2472
02:11:56,920 --> 02:11:58,880
Speaker 2: a plate of food, and when the storm inside him

2473
02:11:58,920 --> 02:12:01,320
Speaker 2: died down, he'd feel guilty. He begged me to forgive him.

2474
02:12:01,840 --> 02:12:04,400
Speaker 2: At one point he punched her in the face so

2475
02:12:04,600 --> 02:12:07,400
Speaker 2: hard that he broke his own hand. Keith Richards then

2476
02:12:07,440 --> 02:12:09,920
Speaker 2: moved into the South Kensington home that Jones shared with

2477
02:12:10,040 --> 02:12:13,120
Speaker 2: Pallenberg that spring while his own estate was being renovated.

2478
02:12:13,840 --> 02:12:17,240
Speaker 2: Richards also found himself drawn to the enigmatic model's worldly nature.

2479
02:12:17,840 --> 02:12:20,080
Speaker 2: She knew everything, and she could say it in five languages.

2480
02:12:20,320 --> 02:12:23,400
Speaker 2: He once marveled. She scared the pants off me. He

2481
02:12:23,520 --> 02:12:26,640
Speaker 2: began to question, though, whether she was with the right man.

2482
02:12:27,080 --> 02:12:29,480
Speaker 2: The first time I saw Anita, my obvious reaction was,

2483
02:12:29,720 --> 02:12:31,960
Speaker 2: what the fuck is a chick like that doing with Brian.

2484
02:12:33,800 --> 02:12:37,040
Speaker 2: Anita is an incredibly strong a much stronger personality than Brian,

2485
02:12:37,240 --> 02:12:40,520
Speaker 2: more confident, with no reservations, whereas Brian was full of doubts.

2486
02:12:41,240 --> 02:12:43,200
Speaker 2: That March, the three of them decided to take a

2487
02:12:43,280 --> 02:12:46,000
Speaker 2: trip to Morocco, where Jones had previously fallen in love

2488
02:12:46,040 --> 02:12:50,120
Speaker 2: with the music, food and laid back lifestyle. Unfortunately, on

2489
02:12:50,240 --> 02:12:53,640
Speaker 2: this trip, Richards fell in love with Pallenberg. We went

2490
02:12:53,720 --> 02:12:56,320
Speaker 2: by car a Bentley with the driver and Brian got

2491
02:12:56,440 --> 02:12:59,840
Speaker 2: sick and ended up in the hospital. Pallenberg remembered, as

2492
02:13:00,600 --> 02:13:03,560
Speaker 2: he was very sickly fragile, So Keith and I drove

2493
02:13:03,640 --> 02:13:05,600
Speaker 2: on and left him there, and that was when we

2494
02:13:05,720 --> 02:13:10,000
Speaker 2: had a physical relationship. Richard says. The affair began in

2495
02:13:10,040 --> 02:13:12,000
Speaker 2: the back seat of his luxury car as it cruised

2496
02:13:12,040 --> 02:13:14,680
Speaker 2: through southern Europe. I still remember the smell of the

2497
02:13:14,720 --> 02:13:17,800
Speaker 2: orange trees in Valencia. When you get laid with Anita

2498
02:13:17,840 --> 02:13:22,880
Speaker 2: Pallenberg for the first time you remember things. What a

2499
02:13:22,960 --> 02:13:23,880
Speaker 2: quote machine he is.

2500
02:13:24,200 --> 02:13:25,960
Speaker 1: He's a romantic in his own unique way.

2501
02:13:26,520 --> 02:13:29,520
Speaker 2: That's true. The songs were very weird, it must be said,

2502
02:13:29,520 --> 02:13:31,960
Speaker 2: when it came to sleeping with each other's girlfriends, or

2503
02:13:32,040 --> 02:13:35,440
Speaker 2: basically anyone that any of the others said previously slept with.

2504
02:13:36,040 --> 02:13:39,280
Speaker 2: Apparently in the early nineteen sixty five tour basis Bill

2505
02:13:39,320 --> 02:13:41,640
Speaker 2: Wyman and Brian Jones being a sport out of stealing

2506
02:13:41,640 --> 02:13:46,360
Speaker 2: each other's sexual partners, sometimes multiples in a day. At

2507
02:13:46,360 --> 02:13:51,040
Speaker 2: a barbecue in Melbourne famously semi famously slept with both

2508
02:13:51,120 --> 02:13:53,800
Speaker 2: the hostess and her daughter. This is all per the

2509
02:13:53,880 --> 02:13:56,920
Speaker 2: Old God's Almost Dead book, which you know was a

2510
02:13:57,000 --> 02:13:59,880
Speaker 2: trashy book. Yeah, and it's written by a guy who

2511
02:14:00,080 --> 02:14:03,840
Speaker 2: wrote another trashy book that was largely discredited. So do

2512
02:14:04,160 --> 02:14:06,560
Speaker 2: with that what you will. I need a Pallenberg for

2513
02:14:06,600 --> 02:14:09,200
Speaker 2: her part split with Jones for good as soon after

2514
02:14:09,240 --> 02:14:12,760
Speaker 2: her affair with Keith began. Obviously, this further strained relations

2515
02:14:12,800 --> 02:14:15,400
Speaker 2: within the band. Jones, who was alienated from Richard and

2516
02:14:15,480 --> 02:14:18,920
Speaker 2: Jagger already saw it, stole some drugs and alcohol, wreaking

2517
02:14:18,960 --> 02:14:21,560
Speaker 2: havoc on his health. By the following year, he was

2518
02:14:21,600 --> 02:14:24,080
Speaker 2: a shadow of his former self, abdicating his role as

2519
02:14:24,120 --> 02:14:27,720
Speaker 2: co creator and the Rolling Stones. His musical contributions had

2520
02:14:27,760 --> 02:14:29,880
Speaker 2: dwindled by the time they recorded nineteen sixty nine to

2521
02:14:29,960 --> 02:14:31,760
Speaker 2: Let It Bleed, and he was asked to leave the

2522
02:14:31,840 --> 02:14:34,800
Speaker 2: band that June. Within a month, he was found dead

2523
02:14:34,840 --> 02:14:37,480
Speaker 2: in the swimming pool of his East Sussex estate, a

2524
02:14:37,600 --> 02:14:40,640
Speaker 2: farm formerly owned by Winnie the Pooh author A. A. Milne.

2525
02:14:41,200 --> 02:14:43,760
Speaker 2: Jones was an early entry into the infamous twenty seven Club,

2526
02:14:45,000 --> 02:14:47,720
Speaker 2: having to deal with his jealousy. Keith would later say,

2527
02:14:47,880 --> 02:14:50,840
Speaker 2: it becomes intolerable and you can really get nasty about it.

2528
02:14:51,480 --> 02:14:53,520
Speaker 2: I tried to be fair to him, but to be honest,

2529
02:14:53,840 --> 02:14:55,920
Speaker 2: he was a bit of a bastard and it doesn't

2530
02:14:55,920 --> 02:15:00,160
Speaker 2: surprise me that he came to a sticky end a stick.

2531
02:15:00,080 --> 02:15:01,960
Speaker 5: He d.

2532
02:15:03,720 --> 02:15:08,200
Speaker 1: Damn And for those of you who don't know, Brian

2533
02:15:08,320 --> 02:15:11,080
Speaker 1: Jones's death is somewhat controversial.

2534
02:15:11,920 --> 02:15:14,520
Speaker 2: That's a whole other episode, but look that up.

2535
02:15:16,200 --> 02:15:19,800
Speaker 1: The other way Satisfaction disrupted The stones interpersonal dynamics was

2536
02:15:19,800 --> 02:15:23,280
Speaker 1: that it introduced notorious rock villain Alan Klein into the

2537
02:15:23,280 --> 02:15:26,680
Speaker 1: group's orbit. Their manager at the time, Andrew lug Oldham,

2538
02:15:26,920 --> 02:15:29,880
Speaker 1: was more or less a young pr hustler rather than

2539
02:15:29,920 --> 02:15:33,320
Speaker 1: a proper entertainment in Pasario. He was the band's age

2540
02:15:33,360 --> 02:15:35,000
Speaker 1: and had his finger on what was happening in the

2541
02:15:35,040 --> 02:15:37,400
Speaker 1: music world, but he was not much of a business figure.

2542
02:15:38,040 --> 02:15:41,400
Speaker 1: With a gargantuan global success of satisfaction, he found himself

2543
02:15:41,520 --> 02:15:46,120
Speaker 1: in way too far over his head. Enter Alan Klein,

2544
02:15:46,640 --> 02:15:51,120
Speaker 1: a prototypical cigar chopping executive up there with Louis B.

2545
02:15:51,280 --> 02:15:56,240
Speaker 1: Mayer and Jeffrey Katzenberg. Really the primo music industry shark.

2546
02:15:56,880 --> 02:15:59,640
Speaker 1: Please enjoy this quote from his own nephew, Ronnie Schneider,

2547
02:15:59,760 --> 02:16:02,120
Speaker 1: who worked as the Stones tour manager for a time.

2548
02:16:02,840 --> 02:16:08,320
Speaker 1: Was Klein villified absolutely, But vilification works two ways. Saddam

2549
02:16:08,400 --> 02:16:13,120
Speaker 1: Hussein used vilification to keep himself safe for many years. Yes,

2550
02:16:13,720 --> 02:16:18,680
Speaker 1: Alan Klin's own nephew compared him to Saddam Hussein. Before

2551
02:16:18,760 --> 02:16:21,000
Speaker 1: managing the Rolling Stones, Klein had made a name for

2552
02:16:21,120 --> 02:16:24,000
Speaker 1: himself as one of the most aggressive and controversial figures

2553
02:16:24,040 --> 02:16:27,120
Speaker 1: in the music business. Raised in a New Jersey orphanage,

2554
02:16:27,160 --> 02:16:30,480
Speaker 1: he began his career as an accountant, specializing in auditing

2555
02:16:30,520 --> 02:16:33,959
Speaker 1: the royalty statements of record labels. In the late fifties,

2556
02:16:34,080 --> 02:16:37,680
Speaker 1: he gained notoriety for recovering unpaid royalties for artists like

2557
02:16:37,800 --> 02:16:42,800
Speaker 1: Bobby Darren and Connie Francis, often exposing shady record industry

2558
02:16:42,879 --> 02:16:46,640
Speaker 1: practices in the process. It's worth noting that Klein would

2559
02:16:46,680 --> 02:16:49,880
Speaker 1: often pocket at least half of these recovered royalties for

2560
02:16:50,000 --> 02:16:54,760
Speaker 1: his troubles. Klein soon expanded into artist management, quickly earning

2561
02:16:54,800 --> 02:16:57,560
Speaker 1: a reputation as a tough negotiator who could bring better

2562
02:16:57,680 --> 02:17:00,800
Speaker 1: contracts out of labels. He's big breakthrough came in the

2563
02:17:00,840 --> 02:17:03,200
Speaker 1: early sixties when he took over the business affairs of

2564
02:17:03,320 --> 02:17:07,119
Speaker 1: Sam Cook, legendary soul singer, helping him take the hundreds

2565
02:17:07,160 --> 02:17:09,039
Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars he recovered.

2566
02:17:08,680 --> 02:17:11,000
Speaker 2: Through royalty statement audience, which again.

2567
02:17:11,000 --> 02:17:14,400
Speaker 1: Was Clin's specialty, and using the proceeds to establish Cook's

2568
02:17:14,440 --> 02:17:17,359
Speaker 1: own label and publishing company, which I feel.

2569
02:17:17,160 --> 02:17:19,960
Speaker 2: Is very, very overlooked in sort of the legend and

2570
02:17:20,080 --> 02:17:23,560
Speaker 2: history of black music in the United States, So that

2571
02:17:23,879 --> 02:17:26,240
Speaker 2: Sam Cook was a label owner, Yeah.

2572
02:17:26,160 --> 02:17:28,480
Speaker 1: Oh, extremely, I mean it kind of got overshadowed, and

2573
02:17:28,520 --> 02:17:30,720
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to flip it by him getting murdered

2574
02:17:30,959 --> 02:17:33,240
Speaker 1: like with the yeah and a half of that happening.

2575
02:17:33,920 --> 02:17:36,840
Speaker 1: Client success with Cook cemented his status as a savvy

2576
02:17:36,920 --> 02:17:40,520
Speaker 1: if ruthless power player, drawing the attention of major artists.

2577
02:17:41,080 --> 02:17:42,879
Speaker 2: By the mid sixties, Client had hitched.

2578
02:17:42,760 --> 02:17:45,840
Speaker 1: Himself to the British Invasion bandwagon, doing deals with people

2579
02:17:45,959 --> 02:17:49,800
Speaker 1: like The Day Clark Five and The Stones, Nemesis Hermit's Sermits,

2580
02:17:51,360 --> 02:17:53,320
Speaker 1: Enemy the Pod Hermit's Ermitts.

2581
02:17:53,840 --> 02:17:56,120
Speaker 2: I just loved how much they pop up unless they

2582
02:17:56,680 --> 02:17:58,959
Speaker 2: annoy both you and the Rolling Stones.

2583
02:17:59,360 --> 02:18:03,160
Speaker 1: Actually though, I me there's a kind of hush show

2584
02:18:03,280 --> 02:18:05,680
Speaker 1: over the world that sounds good tonight.

2585
02:18:06,720 --> 02:18:08,320
Speaker 2: I like that song? Okay.

2586
02:18:09,760 --> 02:18:12,080
Speaker 1: So by working with these British Invasion bands that brought

2587
02:18:12,160 --> 02:18:16,360
Speaker 1: him into the Stone's orbit. Andelou Goldham, the Stone's nominal manager,

2588
02:18:16,520 --> 02:18:19,200
Speaker 1: was attracted by his tough guy persona, the way he

2589
02:18:19,360 --> 02:18:22,640
Speaker 1: eschewed suits for turtlenecks and swinged whiskey from the bottle

2590
02:18:22,720 --> 02:18:24,440
Speaker 1: and carried rolls of cash.

2591
02:18:25,360 --> 02:18:25,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

2592
02:18:26,080 --> 02:18:29,000
Speaker 1: Ultimately, he brought Klein into the business organization in the

2593
02:18:29,040 --> 02:18:31,920
Speaker 1: summer of nineteen sixty five to help negotiate a new

2594
02:18:32,000 --> 02:18:35,280
Speaker 1: record deal between The Stones and their label, Decca following

2595
02:18:35,320 --> 02:18:39,360
Speaker 1: the global Successive Satisfaction. Klein's famous line at the time

2596
02:18:39,640 --> 02:18:41,600
Speaker 1: was that he promised to get the Stones more money

2597
02:18:41,680 --> 02:18:46,640
Speaker 1: than their friendly rivals, the Beatles. This he did on paper,

2598
02:18:47,400 --> 02:18:50,960
Speaker 1: where the money actually went is a little more complicated.

2599
02:18:51,920 --> 02:18:54,280
Speaker 1: Once Klein got his hooks into the Stones, it would

2600
02:18:54,320 --> 02:18:58,000
Speaker 1: prove next to impossible to get them out. Odum's role

2601
02:18:58,040 --> 02:18:59,920
Speaker 1: in the band quickly diminished as he sunk for the

2602
02:19:00,360 --> 02:19:03,680
Speaker 1: drug use. To quote Wikipedia, when Jagger and Richards were

2603
02:19:03,840 --> 02:19:06,760
Speaker 1: arrested for drug possession in nineteen sixty seven, instead of

2604
02:19:06,800 --> 02:19:09,720
Speaker 1: devising a strategy for their legal defense and public relations,

2605
02:19:10,200 --> 02:19:13,320
Speaker 1: Oldham fled to the United States, leaving Klein to deal.

2606
02:19:13,200 --> 02:19:16,560
Speaker 2: With the problem. Nah well, who among us? Yeah, yeah,

2607
02:19:17,080 --> 02:19:19,200
Speaker 2: I'm out of here. Sorry, guys, I haven't just getting

2608
02:19:19,200 --> 02:19:24,040
Speaker 2: way too heavy for old old loogie. Oldham sold his

2609
02:19:24,240 --> 02:19:26,640
Speaker 2: rights to the band to Klein later that year, effectively

2610
02:19:26,680 --> 02:19:29,879
Speaker 2: making him their sole manager. This was generally considered bad

2611
02:19:30,000 --> 02:19:33,200
Speaker 2: news for the Stones, considering that Klein generally operated under

2612
02:19:33,200 --> 02:19:35,959
Speaker 2: the mantra, why take twenty percent of my clients when

2613
02:19:36,000 --> 02:19:39,120
Speaker 2: I can have it all, although, as author Rich Cohen noted,

2614
02:19:39,200 --> 02:19:41,800
Speaker 2: it was fitting that a bunch of blues obsessed Brits

2615
02:19:41,840 --> 02:19:45,840
Speaker 2: got robbed blind by an scrupulous industry heavy giving them

2616
02:19:45,879 --> 02:19:48,080
Speaker 2: an authentic taste of what it was like for their

2617
02:19:48,120 --> 02:19:51,680
Speaker 2: black musical heroes. Klein died in two thousand and nine,

2618
02:19:51,760 --> 02:19:54,920
Speaker 2: but Jordan is still afraid of him, so for legal reasons,

2619
02:19:55,120 --> 02:19:58,840
Speaker 2: we'll phrase this next section as such. Klein has been

2620
02:19:58,879 --> 02:20:01,880
Speaker 2: accused of such a fences as pocketing the Rolling Stones

2621
02:20:01,920 --> 02:20:05,840
Speaker 2: one point twenty five million label advance, with holding royalty payments,

2622
02:20:06,040 --> 02:20:08,840
Speaker 2: stealing publishing rights to their songs, and neglecting to pay

2623
02:20:08,920 --> 02:20:12,360
Speaker 2: taxes for five years, which ultimately led to their famous

2624
02:20:12,400 --> 02:20:15,840
Speaker 2: taxile in France in nineteen seventy one, yielding their epic

2625
02:20:16,080 --> 02:20:20,119
Speaker 2: double album Exile on Main Street. So all things considered,

2626
02:20:20,879 --> 02:20:25,480
Speaker 2: it was a why. For more on this, please listen

2627
02:20:25,560 --> 02:20:30,640
Speaker 2: to Jordan's aforementioned Stone's Touring Party podcast. Klein is most

2628
02:20:30,720 --> 02:20:32,720
Speaker 2: famous these days as the management figure. He came in

2629
02:20:32,760 --> 02:20:35,480
Speaker 2: to oversee the Beatles during their death throws in nineteen

2630
02:20:35,520 --> 02:20:38,720
Speaker 2: sixty nine, following the death of their original manager Brian Epstein.

2631
02:20:39,400 --> 02:20:42,160
Speaker 2: Paul McCartney famously hated Climb while the other three Beatles

2632
02:20:42,200 --> 02:20:45,200
Speaker 2: loved him, and the followout from that disagreement did much

2633
02:20:45,240 --> 02:20:47,200
Speaker 2: more to break up the band than Yoko Ono ever did.

2634
02:20:47,720 --> 02:20:50,480
Speaker 2: Paul hated Klein because he'd heard bad things about him

2635
02:20:50,480 --> 02:20:53,199
Speaker 2: from his new in laws, Lynda Eastman's father and brother,

2636
02:20:53,320 --> 02:20:56,280
Speaker 2: who were both New York entertainment attorneys, and Paul's friends,

2637
02:20:56,320 --> 02:20:58,880
Speaker 2: and the Stones. The Beatles actually called a meeting with

2638
02:20:58,920 --> 02:21:02,160
Speaker 2: Mick Jaggert asking about his experience with Klein, but unfortunately

2639
02:21:02,240 --> 02:21:05,039
Speaker 2: Clin was also invited to that meeting and Mick pussied out.

2640
02:21:06,240 --> 02:21:08,800
Speaker 2: Paul would say, we the Beatles were all gathered in

2641
02:21:08,879 --> 02:21:10,960
Speaker 2: the big boardroom there. We asked Mick how Klein was,

2642
02:21:11,120 --> 02:21:12,720
Speaker 2: and he said, well, he's all right if you like

2643
02:21:12,800 --> 02:21:15,400
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. He didn't say he's a robber,

2644
02:21:15,520 --> 02:21:18,600
Speaker 2: even though Klein had already taken all those copyrights off

2645
02:21:18,640 --> 02:21:21,640
Speaker 2: them by that time. Nick did approach John Lennon privately

2646
02:21:21,680 --> 02:21:23,640
Speaker 2: after the meeting and offered a much more dire warning,

2647
02:21:23,720 --> 02:21:25,959
Speaker 2: saying that signing with Clein would be quote the biggest

2648
02:21:26,000 --> 02:21:30,039
Speaker 2: mistake of your life. Lenin ignored the warning, and support

2649
02:21:30,080 --> 02:21:32,920
Speaker 2: for Clein jeopardized the band's entire business future and played

2650
02:21:32,920 --> 02:21:36,520
Speaker 2: a key role in their eventual breakup. Meanwhile, McCartney, taking

2651
02:21:36,600 --> 02:21:40,120
Speaker 2: Jagger's concerns to Hart, filed lawsuit against his fellow Beatles

2652
02:21:40,200 --> 02:21:43,440
Speaker 2: to formally dissolve the group, a move that ultimately protected

2653
02:21:43,440 --> 02:21:47,000
Speaker 2: their catalog from falling under Cline's control. Lenin would later

2654
02:21:47,040 --> 02:21:49,760
Speaker 2: admit that Paul and Mick had been right, but by

2655
02:21:49,800 --> 02:21:51,920
Speaker 2: that point it was too late and the Beatles were

2656
02:21:51,959 --> 02:21:57,080
Speaker 2: legally dissolved. So by the transitive property, Alan Klein used

2657
02:21:57,120 --> 02:22:00,879
Speaker 2: the Scrolling Stones to get to the Beatles, so descent

2658
02:22:01,000 --> 02:22:03,119
Speaker 2: in the ranks of the Beatles which led to their split.

2659
02:22:03,720 --> 02:22:06,800
Speaker 2: Klein had been brought into the Stones organization following the

2660
02:22:06,879 --> 02:22:13,000
Speaker 2: success Satisfaction. Therefore, Satisfaction led to the breakup of the Beatles.

2661
02:22:15,560 --> 02:22:22,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, yeah, it's plausible. I mean so,

2662
02:22:22,280 --> 02:22:25,240
Speaker 2: I guess in the end the Rolling Stones did win.

2663
02:22:27,840 --> 02:22:30,119
Speaker 2: I'm still kind of that as Rolling Stones won Beatles zero.

2664
02:22:31,280 --> 02:22:35,959
Speaker 2: Go ahead though, okay if I must.

2665
02:22:37,400 --> 02:22:40,320
Speaker 1: According to whosample dot com, there are one hundred and

2666
02:22:40,400 --> 02:22:43,840
Speaker 1: forty four covers of Satisfaction, ranging from Everyone to Aretha

2667
02:22:43,879 --> 02:22:47,840
Speaker 1: Franklin to Devo, Phillis Diller to Cat Power and Britney

2668
02:22:47,879 --> 02:22:51,280
Speaker 1: Spears to the Grateful Dead, But as far as Keith

2669
02:22:51,360 --> 02:22:55,440
Speaker 1: Riches is concerned, the definitive version was Otis Reddings. Reddings

2670
02:22:55,480 --> 02:22:58,280
Speaker 1: recorded his version of Satisfaction a year after The Stones

2671
02:22:58,280 --> 02:23:01,720
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six, encouraged by stack spand mats, Steve

2672
02:23:01,840 --> 02:23:03,040
Speaker 1: Cropper and Booker T.

2673
02:23:03,280 --> 02:23:03,640
Speaker 2: Jones.

2674
02:23:04,600 --> 02:23:06,880
Speaker 1: At first reading wasn't familiar with the song, and once

2675
02:23:06,920 --> 02:23:09,560
Speaker 1: he heard it he really wasn't a fan. So he

2676
02:23:09,680 --> 02:23:13,200
Speaker 1: imagined it entirely, swapping out the iconic guitar riff for

2677
02:23:13,320 --> 02:23:18,440
Speaker 1: a brassy horn section and taking major liberties with the lyrics. Ironically,

2678
02:23:18,600 --> 02:23:20,920
Speaker 1: this was closer to what Keith Riches had originally envisioned

2679
02:23:20,959 --> 02:23:25,240
Speaker 1: for the track, and he praised Redding's bold interpretation. The

2680
02:23:25,320 --> 02:23:27,720
Speaker 1: way Otis ended up doing it is probably closer to

2681
02:23:27,800 --> 02:23:30,800
Speaker 1: my original conception for the song. He later said, it's

2682
02:23:30,800 --> 02:23:34,760
Speaker 1: an obvious horn riff. Otis got it right. Our version

2683
02:23:35,040 --> 02:23:38,000
Speaker 1: was a demo for Otis. That's a nice thing to say,

2684
02:23:38,720 --> 02:23:39,040
Speaker 1: it is.

2685
02:23:39,240 --> 02:23:39,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2686
02:23:40,480 --> 02:23:42,960
Speaker 1: At a time when British bands were regularly covering black

2687
02:23:43,000 --> 02:23:47,040
Speaker 1: American artists, Redding's take flipped the script. It became one

2688
02:23:47,040 --> 02:23:50,439
Speaker 1: of the first notable examples of a black artist reworking

2689
02:23:50,520 --> 02:23:54,280
Speaker 1: a British rock song. Otis's version reached number thirty one

2690
02:23:54,480 --> 02:23:58,520
Speaker 1: on the US charts. According to Setless FM, the Stone's

2691
02:23:58,560 --> 02:24:00,960
Speaker 1: a play it. I Can't get No status faction one

2692
02:24:01,080 --> 02:24:05,360
Speaker 1: thousand and seven times to date during concerts which must

2693
02:24:05,440 --> 02:24:07,880
Speaker 1: mean they've done one thousand and seven concerts, because there's

2694
02:24:07,879 --> 02:24:10,520
Speaker 1: no way they didn't play that song after it became

2695
02:24:10,560 --> 02:24:14,240
Speaker 1: a hit. Also, Peter Noon of Hermas Hermit's has performed

2696
02:24:14,280 --> 02:24:19,480
Speaker 1: at six times. I have not heard it.

2697
02:24:21,400 --> 02:24:23,600
Speaker 2: So, as we mentioned earlier, one of Jagger's most famous

2698
02:24:23,680 --> 02:24:26,240
Speaker 2: quotes is I'd rather be dead than singing Satisfaction when

2699
02:24:26,280 --> 02:24:29,360
Speaker 2: I'm sixty five. So he turned sixty five years old

2700
02:24:29,400 --> 02:24:31,879
Speaker 2: on July twenty six, two thousand and eight, and since

2701
02:24:31,959 --> 02:24:35,160
Speaker 2: then they have played Satisfaction another one hundred and ninety

2702
02:24:35,200 --> 02:24:39,200
Speaker 2: eight times. So if anything about Big Jagger bothers, you

2703
02:24:39,600 --> 02:24:43,480
Speaker 2: know that since two thousand and eight he has privately

2704
02:24:43,600 --> 02:24:46,840
Speaker 2: wished for death on stage on some of the world's

2705
02:24:46,879 --> 02:24:49,960
Speaker 2: biggest stages in front of the world's biggest crowds at

2706
02:24:50,080 --> 02:24:51,760
Speaker 2: least one hundred and ninety eight times.

2707
02:24:52,120 --> 02:24:54,360
Speaker 1: This may be true, but Mick also said this in

2708
02:24:54,480 --> 02:24:58,360
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five. People get very blase about their big hit.

2709
02:24:58,680 --> 02:25:01,600
Speaker 1: This was the song that really made Rolling Stones changed

2710
02:25:01,680 --> 02:25:04,760
Speaker 1: us from just another band into a huge monster band.

2711
02:25:05,440 --> 02:25:08,959
Speaker 1: You always need one song. We weren't American, and America

2712
02:25:09,120 --> 02:25:11,200
Speaker 1: was a big thing and we always wanted to make

2713
02:25:11,280 --> 02:25:14,280
Speaker 1: it here. It was very impressive the way that song

2714
02:25:14,400 --> 02:25:16,800
Speaker 1: and the popularity of the band became a worldwide thing.

2715
02:25:17,440 --> 02:25:20,920
Speaker 1: It's a signature tune really, rather than a great classic painting,

2716
02:25:21,080 --> 02:25:24,080
Speaker 1: because it's only like one thing, a kind of signature

2717
02:25:24,160 --> 02:25:27,360
Speaker 1: that everyone knows. Its a very catchy title, as a

2718
02:25:27,480 --> 02:25:30,360
Speaker 1: very catchy guitar riff, as a great guitar sound, which

2719
02:25:30,440 --> 02:25:33,119
Speaker 1: was original at the time, and it captures the spirit

2720
02:25:33,200 --> 02:25:35,800
Speaker 1: of the times, which is very important in those kinds

2721
02:25:35,840 --> 02:25:42,080
Speaker 1: of songs. Decades later, Satisfactions steal pulses with the urgency

2722
02:25:42,160 --> 02:25:46,000
Speaker 1: and frustration that first electrified the airwaves in nineteen sixty five.

2723
02:25:46,680 --> 02:25:49,640
Speaker 1: It wasn't just a hit. It was a howl of discontent,

2724
02:25:50,240 --> 02:25:53,119
Speaker 1: a declaration of identity in a world that felt increasingly

2725
02:25:53,280 --> 02:25:57,879
Speaker 1: hollow and overpackaged. With one slashing riff, the Rolling Stones

2726
02:25:57,920 --> 02:26:01,320
Speaker 1: gave voice to a generation that didn't see itself reflected

2727
02:26:01,360 --> 02:26:04,520
Speaker 1: in the polish smiles of TV ads or the promises

2728
02:26:04,560 --> 02:26:08,040
Speaker 1: of the post war dream. It was raw, restless, and

2729
02:26:08,200 --> 02:26:12,280
Speaker 1: unapologetically alive. It continues to rank high on lists of

2730
02:26:12,360 --> 02:26:15,320
Speaker 1: so called greatest rock and roll songs, but those lists

2731
02:26:15,360 --> 02:26:20,360
Speaker 1: are subjective and stupid. Nothing else Satisfaction represents the moment

2732
02:26:20,520 --> 02:26:22,920
Speaker 1: rock and roll stopped asking for permission.

2733
02:26:24,440 --> 02:26:27,280
Speaker 2: I'm gonna think about that for a while. What do

2734
02:26:27,320 --> 02:26:28,200
Speaker 2: you think you got another one?

2735
02:26:28,560 --> 02:26:30,360
Speaker 1: You got another song of the summer and another song

2736
02:26:30,440 --> 02:26:31,760
Speaker 1: that stopped asking for permission?

2737
02:26:32,600 --> 02:26:35,560
Speaker 2: Which is which proto rock and roll song didn't ask

2738
02:26:35,680 --> 02:26:36,320
Speaker 2: for permission?

2739
02:26:36,920 --> 02:26:39,520
Speaker 1: I think scale is crucial. I think something that was

2740
02:26:39,600 --> 02:26:41,920
Speaker 1: aimed this high on the charts.

2741
02:26:42,200 --> 02:26:44,320
Speaker 2: And probably the song that that blues guy, the blues

2742
02:26:44,360 --> 02:26:47,400
Speaker 2: guitarist I mentioned earlier cut called I'm Gonna Murder that woman.

2743
02:26:48,680 --> 02:26:51,880
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe the moment pop stopped asking for permission there?

2744
02:26:51,959 --> 02:26:52,680
Speaker 2: Are you happy with that?

2745
02:26:53,640 --> 02:26:53,800
Speaker 3: Yeah?

2746
02:26:53,879 --> 02:26:55,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a lot of murder ballads where

2747
02:26:55,640 --> 02:26:57,560
Speaker 2: they just talk about it. I murdered this I heard

2748
02:26:57,640 --> 02:26:58,600
Speaker 2: I didn't ask so.

2749
02:27:00,040 --> 02:27:02,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, Eminem kind of like that Unlocked in the top forty.

2750
02:27:03,800 --> 02:27:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, possibly the most famous songs about murdering in the

2751
02:27:07,000 --> 02:27:09,879
Speaker 2: top twenty, I guess. Yeah, hang down your head, Tom.

2752
02:27:09,800 --> 02:27:12,400
Speaker 1: Juelas, Oh wow, that's good. All right, songs about murder,

2753
02:27:13,160 --> 02:27:15,560
Speaker 1: hit songs about murder, hit songs about murder.

2754
02:27:15,640 --> 02:27:17,240
Speaker 2: Let's look no, because now you have to go into

2755
02:27:17,280 --> 02:27:19,200
Speaker 2: like the whole history of the child ballads and everything

2756
02:27:19,200 --> 02:27:22,160
Speaker 2: through Appalaysia which are like you know, I mean, because

2757
02:27:22,200 --> 02:27:25,320
Speaker 2: then you have Hey Joe, well, yeah, hey Joe.

2758
02:27:26,000 --> 02:27:28,680
Speaker 1: Oh goodbye Earl. Did you actually kill him or was

2759
02:27:28,720 --> 02:27:29,400
Speaker 1: it just the plan?

2760
02:27:30,560 --> 02:27:34,360
Speaker 2: I forget, I remember the specifics in there. There's a

2761
02:27:34,440 --> 02:27:41,320
Speaker 2: Nick Cave for Cobby. That one my name was Las

2762
02:27:41,800 --> 02:27:46,640
Speaker 2: Jane Mac the knife, Mack the knife badly Roy Brown.

2763
02:27:47,040 --> 02:27:49,160
Speaker 2: I thought that was just cutting people up in barrooms?

2764
02:27:49,280 --> 02:27:50,160
Speaker 2: Is it about killing people?

2765
02:27:50,160 --> 02:27:52,400
Speaker 1: What's the other one? Then, don't mess around with Jim?

2766
02:27:52,440 --> 02:27:54,600
Speaker 1: Which I always thought was one was a sequel song

2767
02:27:54,720 --> 02:27:55,000
Speaker 1: or the other?

2768
02:27:55,040 --> 02:27:58,360
Speaker 2: I forget? Yeah, yeah, has that been disproven that? I

2769
02:27:58,440 --> 02:27:58,720
Speaker 2: don't know.

2770
02:28:00,160 --> 02:28:03,280
Speaker 1: We came along this road Nick Cave, Yeah, oh.

2771
02:28:03,400 --> 02:28:05,480
Speaker 2: Nick Cave has dozens of songs about murder. But I'm

2772
02:28:05,560 --> 02:28:09,160
Speaker 2: I'm I'm speaking. The wild Rose is like an old English.

2773
02:28:09,160 --> 02:28:12,640
Speaker 2: It's one of those old English ones. God, he's got

2774
02:28:12,680 --> 02:28:15,440
Speaker 2: so many songs about murder. Actually, one of my favorite

2775
02:28:15,480 --> 02:28:17,560
Speaker 2: songs that the Dead do from around this time is

2776
02:28:17,680 --> 02:28:23,320
Speaker 2: called Me and My Uncle, which is actually written by

2777
02:28:25,320 --> 02:28:29,560
Speaker 2: John Phillips of all people, and I can't give away

2778
02:28:29,600 --> 02:28:32,440
Speaker 2: the twist, but it does involve murder.

2779
02:28:32,920 --> 02:28:33,040
Speaker 3: Hm.

2780
02:28:35,440 --> 02:28:37,440
Speaker 2: This feels like kind of a fool's game. A lot

2781
02:28:37,480 --> 02:28:40,440
Speaker 2: of songs about murder. I've ruined your nice kicker with it, though, so.

2782
02:28:41,959 --> 02:28:42,960
Speaker 1: See cat that as a win.

2783
02:28:43,840 --> 02:28:49,640
Speaker 2: I shot the sheriff, rolling stones too, beetles zero, oh

2784
02:28:49,760 --> 02:28:51,320
Speaker 2: Maxwell silver hammer, forgot about that?

2785
02:28:51,480 --> 02:29:00,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Delilah, Delilah. I shot the sheriff psycho killer yeah,

2786
02:29:00,840 --> 02:29:05,360
Speaker 1: fullsome prison blues of course, of course, of course, excitable boy,

2787
02:29:06,959 --> 02:29:08,800
Speaker 1: but he bean raps it, man downs Rihanna.

2788
02:29:09,680 --> 02:29:13,000
Speaker 2: Oh well. The Kicks is also about by Foster. The

2789
02:29:13,040 --> 02:29:16,200
Speaker 2: People is also about murder. Oh, pumped up kicks. Yeah,

2790
02:29:16,959 --> 02:29:20,200
Speaker 2: school shooting, right, all the little kids with pumped up kicks,

2791
02:29:20,240 --> 02:29:25,800
Speaker 2: better run and run. Yes, somebody's gun. Yeah yeah, I

2792
02:29:25,879 --> 02:29:28,440
Speaker 2: don't like that. I don't like that. Man, don't do

2793
02:29:28,840 --> 02:29:31,160
Speaker 2: I don't It's in poor taste, not like all of

2794
02:29:31,200 --> 02:29:34,320
Speaker 2: our jokes. Uh sorry, why don't you just cut all

2795
02:29:34,360 --> 02:29:37,480
Speaker 2: this out of it? The stop messing for permission, and

2796
02:29:37,560 --> 02:29:42,960
Speaker 2: I'll say, And they never would again until LMFAO cut

2797
02:29:43,080 --> 02:29:48,840
Speaker 2: their song Sorry for Party Rocking, which threw the nation

2798
02:29:49,200 --> 02:29:54,000
Speaker 2: into a tizzy because once again rock had saw well, actually,

2799
02:29:54,920 --> 02:29:58,040
Speaker 2: in the maximum of Church Hill, it's always easier to

2800
02:29:58,120 --> 02:30:00,600
Speaker 2: ask for forgiveness than beg for permission. So that was

2801
02:30:00,959 --> 02:30:03,880
Speaker 2: suppose now I don't know, I don't know, I'm making

2802
02:30:03,959 --> 02:30:10,080
Speaker 2: that up. So in a sense, LMFAO embodied this for

2803
02:30:10,200 --> 02:30:15,560
Speaker 2: a troubled new millennium torn asunder by wars, on terrors, drugs,

2804
02:30:16,680 --> 02:30:20,440
Speaker 2: facing the Great Recession two thousand and eight, and so

2805
02:30:20,520 --> 02:30:25,480
Speaker 2: when they released Sorry for Party Rocking, not only were

2806
02:30:25,520 --> 02:30:28,920
Speaker 2: they asking for forgiveness instead of permission, but they were

2807
02:30:28,959 --> 02:30:32,840
Speaker 2: apologizing on behalf of the elders of that country. Because

2808
02:30:32,840 --> 02:30:35,879
Speaker 2: you remember, one of those men is like forty seven, yeah, yeah.

2809
02:30:36,160 --> 02:30:39,160
Speaker 1: And he's er Barry Gordy's kid, right or nephew or something.

2810
02:30:39,760 --> 02:30:42,440
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, So you have a member of the older

2811
02:30:44,000 --> 02:30:49,800
Speaker 2: landed gentry apologizing in song to the younger millennials. And

2812
02:30:49,959 --> 02:30:54,280
Speaker 2: in that way you have a baby boomer apologizing and

2813
02:30:54,400 --> 02:30:57,480
Speaker 2: it fits right in the grand tradition of satisfaction. I'm

2814
02:30:57,640 --> 02:31:01,920
Speaker 2: tying it all together in a kicker right now. Sorry

2815
02:31:01,959 --> 02:31:08,040
Speaker 2: for Satisfaction Rocking. This has been too much information. Sorry

2816
02:31:08,120 --> 02:31:11,960
Speaker 2: for Satisfaction Rocking. I'm Alex Heigelan. This is my co host,

2817
02:31:12,000 --> 02:31:15,640
Speaker 2: Clinton Halen. Sorry, what's your name again? And I'm Jordan

2818
02:31:15,760 --> 02:31:21,680
Speaker 2: Roun talk. That's right, Okay, we'll see next time, folks.

2819
02:31:24,040 --> 02:31:28,240
Speaker 2: We'll do it. We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna catch

2820
02:31:28,280 --> 02:31:30,000
Speaker 2: you if it just will catch you.

2821
02:31:32,480 --> 02:31:35,200
Speaker 1: Said it like the family guy, creepy old man voice.

2822
02:31:35,480 --> 02:31:38,560
Speaker 2: I'm gonna catch you. This has been this has been

2823
02:31:38,600 --> 02:31:42,560
Speaker 2: too much information and uh, we'll catch you, you little

2824
02:31:42,560 --> 02:31:43,440
Speaker 2: pig with some bitch.

2825
02:31:43,640 --> 02:31:45,400
Speaker 1: No, no, no, This is how we're gonna sign off

2826
02:31:45,440 --> 02:31:48,720
Speaker 1: that we forgot to after Galaxy Quest and Tim Allen

2827
02:31:48,720 --> 02:31:51,959
Speaker 1: would leave set he just was say leaving, that's where

2828
02:31:52,000 --> 02:32:00,480
Speaker 1: we ended, okay, leaving leaving too much information was a

2829
02:32:00,520 --> 02:32:01,880
Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio.

2830
02:32:02,120 --> 02:32:05,359
Speaker 2: The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtog.

2831
02:32:05,560 --> 02:32:08,360
Speaker 1: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June.

2832
02:32:08,680 --> 02:32:11,760
Speaker 2: The show was researched, written and hosted by Jordan Runtog

2833
02:32:11,840 --> 02:32:12,920
Speaker 2: and Alex Heigel.

2834
02:32:12,760 --> 02:32:15,959
Speaker 1: With original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

2835
02:32:16,320 --> 02:32:18,360
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

2836
02:32:18,440 --> 02:32:21,360
Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the

2837
02:32:21,400 --> 02:32:24,680
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

2838
02:32:24,720 --> 02:32:25,440
Speaker 1: favorite shows