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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Nolan.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ed. We're joined with our guest super

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Speaker 3: producer Max the freight Train Williams. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 4: You are here.

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: Calendars are made up, but a happy New Year, fellow

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Speaker 3: conspiracy realist, that's right through the magic of editing and

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Speaker 3: post production. This is the last episode the three of

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Speaker 3: us will be recording together in twenty twenty three. Remember,

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Speaker 3: just because a calendar flips a page, it doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: the world suddenly stops. That's why tonight's episode is about

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Speaker 3: a growing global concern that we learned about several months

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Speaker 3: ago and have been keeping an eye on. Why are

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Speaker 3: world powers multiple world powers accusing the Nation of India

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Speaker 3: of running assassination rings And I think a fellow conspiracy

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Speaker 3: realist of ours deserves a shout out.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, big shout out to head Master who called

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Speaker 2: in back in mid August of this year and talk

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Speaker 2: to us about the assassination of a guy named Hardeep

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Speaker 2: Nijar that we're going to talk about today, and that

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Speaker 2: was a serious rabbit hole, head master that we went

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Speaker 2: down that has now led to new developments that this

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Speaker 2: is the reason why we're covering it today in a

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Speaker 2: full episode.

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Speaker 3: Here are the facts, folks. As we have noted in

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Speaker 3: the past, India is huge. Check out our episode on

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Speaker 3: the Line of Actual Control for a brief look at

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Speaker 3: just the amazing, deep, rich history of India and all

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Speaker 3: the misconceptions that the West often carries about this beautiful country.

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Speaker 3: It's huge. Maybe not in terms of geographical size, but

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Speaker 3: it is absolutely huge in terms of the number of

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Speaker 3: people who live there. There are so many people living

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Speaker 3: in India.

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Speaker 5: Dense, dense af with over one point four billion people

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Speaker 5: occupying only three point three million square kilometers or one million,

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Speaker 5: two hundred and sixty nine thousand, three hundred and forty

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Speaker 5: five square miles, it is the world's second largest population

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Speaker 5: jammed into only the seventh largest country.

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Speaker 4: That's some mind blowing maths right there.

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Speaker 5: Just by way of comparison, the United States is around

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Speaker 5: nine million square kilometers or three thousand, six hundred and

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Speaker 5: eighteen seven hundred and eighty three square miles. Thank you

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Speaker 5: Ben for the conversions here, and only has a population

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Speaker 5: of around three point three million.

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Speaker 3: Oh, you're right off, Mike Matt credit where it's due.

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Speaker 3: You raised an excellent point. India is technically neck and

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Speaker 3: neck with China for the largest world population, and I

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Speaker 3: believe they were projected in twenty twenty three to have

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Speaker 3: a slight overtake in China. But I don't know whether

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Speaker 3: that has been officially confirmed or whether we're still playing

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Speaker 3: the estimates game, but.

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Speaker 2: It's probably estimates. I've just got it right because I

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Speaker 2: doubt there was some kind of census that happened this year.

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Speaker 3: It's tough to count a lot of people. And also,

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Speaker 3: Noel shout out for that comparison, because that comparison is

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Speaker 3: quite clever. It does hold. We're talking about not just

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Speaker 3: the land, but the amount of people I had. And

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Speaker 3: this may be controversial, but a lot of my friends

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Speaker 3: who live in India or or part of the Indian

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Speaker 3: diaspora who have talked to me about this, more than

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Speaker 3: one person has told me the biggest difference in India

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Speaker 3: versus America that they see in terms of people is

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Speaker 3: that wherever they go, they are just a bunch of people.

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Speaker 4: Makes sense.

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Speaker 5: But Ben Matt, why is all this important for the

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Speaker 5: topic of this evening's story.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would say, I would just say it's because India,

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Speaker 2: like the United States, has a bunch of states within it. Right,

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Speaker 2: It's not just one government, one power is It's like

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Speaker 2: the United States where there is one government right in Washington,

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Speaker 2: that is like the federal government. But each state within

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Speaker 2: India also has its own governing powers, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of the different states and regions have their own wants

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Speaker 2: and needs that may be a little different from what

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Speaker 2: the entirety of India or the federal government wants.

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Speaker 5: Wouldn't you say, almost more so even than the way

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Speaker 5: our state governments work, Like the identity of the states

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Speaker 5: within India are more pronounced, perhaps even than here in

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Speaker 5: the United States.

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Speaker 3: That's a bit of a difficult I mean, that's a

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Speaker 3: bit of a difficult I think comparison. I don't know

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Speaker 3: whether we could say that authoritatively because we have not

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Speaker 3: lived in India, but it's definitely true that we have

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Speaker 3: to understand, regardless ofbout maybe portrayed in the news in

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Speaker 3: the West. The nation of India is far from a monolith.

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Speaker 3: Twenty eight states, eight Union territories. These literal billions of

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Speaker 3: people obviously don't agree on everything, and there are a

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Speaker 3: lot of fractures, internal instabilities with the government and the culture,

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Speaker 3: tons of dissenting voices. To your point, Matt Contradictory aims

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Speaker 3: secessionist parties, which do occur in the US as well.

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Speaker 3: The US, of course, has a vested interest in not

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Speaker 3: only containing secessionist parties, but making sure they don't get

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Speaker 3: too much of a public platform.

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Speaker 2: Oh completely agree, I think, Well, see, I don't know

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Speaker 2: if this is accurate or not, but this is the

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Speaker 2: way I'm viewing it. In the US, I'm often seeing

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Speaker 2: those like we need to split Texas off from the

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Speaker 2: United States, or we should split you know, California off

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Speaker 2: and make it a separate region or a separate country.

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Speaker 2: Those are often, at least from my view, not religiously motivated.

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Speaker 2: Right in the case of India, I think one of

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Speaker 2: the major issues we're dealing with here is the state

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Speaker 2: of Punjab. Right that are there are many people who

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Speaker 2: have formed movements at least to try and separate the

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Speaker 2: state of Punjab off from India to create its own state.

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Speaker 2: And it's religious. It's based on religion, correct.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and religion in this case could be considered such

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Speaker 3: a close Venn diagram with culture that the two indeed

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Speaker 3: may be inseparable. We also have to remember that, unlike

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Speaker 3: the United States, the nation of India did experience a

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Speaker 3: partition in nineteen forty seven, the dissolution of the British

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Speaker 3: Raj led to Pakistan and India, and they have been

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Speaker 3: beefed up ever since with one of the most dramatic

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Speaker 3: border openings and crossings that occurs today. Check it out

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Speaker 3: in person if you get a chance to see it.

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Speaker 3: If not, go to YouTube. It's worth it.

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Speaker 5: I think that's maybe where my perception of the very

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Speaker 5: strong identities of the various Indian states comes from. It

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Speaker 5: is just that there are these different religions, maybe in

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Speaker 5: a way that isn't quite something we're used to hear

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Speaker 5: in the United States. You know, it's a very important

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Speaker 5: part of these individual you know, parts of the country,

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Speaker 5: more so I think than we have here, where there

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Speaker 5: may be aren't quite as many options in terms of

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Speaker 5: like varying state to state.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, the every country is its own story, right,

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Speaker 3: just like every person, but on a macro cosmic or

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Speaker 3: macropolar scale, and India, like China, is struggling continually to

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Speaker 3: meain domestic unity. To your question, Noel, I think it

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Speaker 3: would be. I think it's fair to point out that

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Speaker 3: just the discrepancy between population size is a huge factor

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Speaker 3: in this. And there's also, of course the shadow of colonialism.

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Speaker 3: A bunch of different empires that existed were all grouped

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Speaker 3: together by the British and they said, okay, now this

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Speaker 3: is India, and look we I feel like we have

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Speaker 3: to say it for the fellow policy wonks in the crowd.

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Speaker 3: But the fact that India, China, and to another degree

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Speaker 3: probably pretty soon the US struggled to maintain domestic unity.

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Speaker 3: It is a known thing. It's led to a running

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Speaker 3: dark joke in academia, where we love dark jokes. You'll

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Speaker 3: hear the statement that India is the world's largest democracy.

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Speaker 3: That is true. You will also hear the statement that

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Speaker 3: because it's the world's largest democracy, it is effectively the

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Speaker 3: best argument against the idea of democracy.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, I don't want to get too

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Speaker 2: deep into guys, but the discussions we've had in the

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Speaker 2: past about governments and the way they function and how

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Speaker 2: that changes as you increase in area and population. Right,

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Speaker 2: Like we're talking about huge conquering armies that would move

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Speaker 2: through when there was an empire, you know, in ages past,

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Speaker 2: and how difficult it was to do that very thing, right,

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Speaker 2: to basically engulf entire cultures and populations into your new

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Speaker 2: thing that you're introducing to them, and then maintain control

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Speaker 2: in that region while you still run your thing at

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Speaker 2: your capital and all your major industrial areas or I

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Speaker 2: guess not industrial then just the places where you make money,

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Speaker 2: and then trying to get everybody to agree that this

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Speaker 2: is how how life should be and these are the

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Speaker 2: rules we should all live by. That sounds insane when

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Speaker 2: you say it.

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Speaker 3: Out loud, Well, yeah, it does, and it does sound

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Speaker 3: conspiratorial because it is. Like, the reason there's so many

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Speaker 3: problems in a lot of African countries is because European

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Speaker 3: powers purposely sowed chaos. They put different communities that existed

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Speaker 3: for thousands of years together and at the same time

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Speaker 3: against one another. So, as strange as it does sound

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Speaker 3: to say out loud, certain powerful forces profit from internal

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Speaker 3: dissent from chaos so long as they can ultimately control

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Speaker 3: that chaos, and that leads to a lot of you know,

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Speaker 3: immortal technique. Not for nothing is correct when he says

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Speaker 3: and beat me here, Max, You've the Middle East and

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Speaker 3: gave birth to a demon like that, he's referring to

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Speaker 3: that practice of sowing chaos and forcing domestic like forcing

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Speaker 3: insurmountable domestic tensions. And look, you're right, that is a

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Speaker 3: rabbit hole, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: It is because it applies to South America, Latin America, sure,

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Speaker 2: Caribbean like everywhere.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Southeast Asia as well. Like so, India also

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Speaker 3: has plenty of external struggles because India is a huge deal,

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Speaker 3: not just in terms of people power. It's got a

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Speaker 3: growing rivalry with China because they're two very powerful neighbors

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Speaker 3: that live right next door to each other. It's got

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Speaker 3: geopolitical power grabs going on, economic activity on the ground skirmishes.

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Speaker 3: Please please please. The name sounds boring, but check out

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Speaker 3: the episode on the line of actual control. It does matter,

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Speaker 3: and it is frightening.

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Speaker 5: And they're getting into the space game too, right, yes, sir, yeah,

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Speaker 5: just becoming a super player in technology and innovation as

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Speaker 5: well as X really truly beginning to have some big

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Speaker 5: success and exporting what had typically been more of a

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Speaker 5: regional thing with.

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Speaker 4: Bollywood films like R R R.

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Speaker 5: I believe one the Oscar for Best Song, which is embarrassing. Frankly,

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Speaker 5: that movie deserved, absolutely incredible, But you know, typically Bollywood

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Speaker 5: films have been more a thing that people that are

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Speaker 5: from that community, maybe live in the United States would

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Speaker 5: be more familiar with. In the area that I live,

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Speaker 5: there's the mall called the South to Cab Mall that

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Speaker 5: shows Bollywood movies on the regular, but there is a

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Speaker 5: very large book population of Indian people who live in

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Speaker 5: that part of town. But yeah, R was absolutely kind

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Speaker 5: of an example of that really breaking through into the mainstream.

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Speaker 3: Can make a similar comparison to K pop.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I just saw some K pop group I

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Speaker 2: couldn't tell you what it was at the Jingle Ball.

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Speaker 2: It was great though, it was amazing. But with India,

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Speaker 2: they're doing the things that we've talked about in the

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Speaker 2: past about how you exert external control as a country, right.

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Speaker 2: One of those main things is exporting your culture, right,

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Speaker 2: and that's I think some of that we've talked about

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Speaker 2: in the past. That's what they're doing. I just want

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Speaker 2: to make sure we remember India had that successful lunar

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Speaker 2: mission when Russia's mission failed very recently. So that is

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Speaker 2: a again a major step one that the it's not

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Speaker 2: landing human beings on the Moon the way the US

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Speaker 2: did and had that big global Hurrah moment I guess

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Speaker 2: or whatever.

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Speaker 3: You cause it is easy, But it wasn't that.

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Speaker 2: But it was still a successful lunar mission, right, And

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Speaker 2: that's a big deal.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, And the it speaks to it speaks to

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Speaker 3: India's growing role as a tech giant and as to

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Speaker 3: be honest, as an expansionist power. Expansionist power carries some

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Speaker 3: mean connotations, but we don't mean those mean connotations.

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Speaker 2: It does mean they don't want to give away parts

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Speaker 2: of themselves, right right.

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Speaker 3: Well, who does nobody's really Countries historically don't have consensual

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Speaker 3: fire sails on territory.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: But there is something, there's very exciting thing we're going

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Speaker 3: to get to in twenty twenty four about the land

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Speaker 3: that nobody wants even now in this human crowded world,

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Speaker 3: terra nullius. I believe it's called.

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Speaker 2: This Is it just a dead zone or something?

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Speaker 4: Several well, it's several.

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Speaker 2: Several.

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Speaker 3: Some of them are dead zones like desert stuff with

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Speaker 3: the arable land, and then some of them are areas

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Speaker 3: where logistics of infrastructure are tricky. And then some of

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Speaker 3: them are just land as leverage, land as ponds in

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Speaker 3: larger negotiations. And speaking of larger negotiations, this is what

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Speaker 3: we're setting up here. We know that India is modernizing

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Speaker 3: and it is a brilliant, beautiful country. Like any other country,

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Speaker 3: it is imperfect, but it is becoming a more powerful

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Speaker 3: force on the world stage, and as such, naturally it

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Speaker 3: will seek recognition in the global order. Getting that recognition

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Speaker 3: it's like getting your own country. It's a tricky endeavor,

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Speaker 3: somewhere between an art and a science. There's no real

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Speaker 3: playbook on how to do this. And because there's no

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Speaker 3: real playbook, every single country you can think of that

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Speaker 3: you might think of as a global player, no exceptions,

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Speaker 3: no hyperbole, every single one has done some incredibly horrific,

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Speaker 3: sketchy stuff in the pursuit of that power. Shout out

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Speaker 3: to Chinese repression of domestic rights and communities which continues today.

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Speaker 3: We might not get into we might not pass customs

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Speaker 3: for some of the episodes we've recorded in that regard.

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Speaker 3: Shout out to CIA led coups from the US nineteen

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Speaker 3: fifty for Guatemala, we see you, uh. And then the

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Speaker 3: previously mentioned European colonialism. The question becomes how far will

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Speaker 3: India go to maintain its domestic status quo, to twell

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Speaker 3: descent and to further expand to seek power. According to

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Speaker 3: the US, Canada and members of the very scary global

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Speaker 3: intelligence community, this country is literally killing people, not just

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Speaker 3: on Indian soil, but across the planet.

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Speaker 2: What are we.

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Speaker 3: Talking about while we got black baged? This is the

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Speaker 3: end of the episode. Is the end of the show.

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Speaker 3: We're not even doing ad breaks.

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Speaker 2: We're we're telling you this from the bag itself.

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Speaker 3: From the bag. We're reporting live from the Kittie. No,

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Speaker 3: We'll we'll keep going until we get shut down, but

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Speaker 3: we'll pause for an ad break, hopefully from the India

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Speaker 3: Tourism Board. Here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 2: So when we're when we're talking about this stuff and

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Speaker 2: potentially a country assassinating people, I think just let's quickly

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Speaker 2: make a distinction there, because we're going to explore whether

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Speaker 2: or not this was some kind of the CIA like assassination,

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Speaker 2: like something that an internal organization or governmental organization in

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Speaker 2: India is carrying out assassinations with operatives that they basically

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Speaker 2: control right and run and pay. Or is it some

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Speaker 2: kind of sell within one of those organizations, like a

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Speaker 2: breakoff group from one of those or is it an

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Speaker 2: independent thing being carried out from the state of India.

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Speaker 2: These are all big questions that we're going to be

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Speaker 2: looking at because I think that's a big deal, right

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Speaker 2: if it's a CIA in the US, at least, if

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Speaker 2: it's a CIA sponsored assassination, that's very different from let's

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Speaker 2: say an individual business person that hired an assassin, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just so, And we are going to have to

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Speaker 3: dive into those possibilities listed there. The accusation of assassination,

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Speaker 3: of conspiracy, they're not coming from Loan Gunman esque wing

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Speaker 3: nuts posting on four Chan. And uh, I'm just putting

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Speaker 3: that in there as a shout out to x files.

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Speaker 3: I recently rewatched some of those older episodes and the

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Speaker 3: ones that aren't tech centric episodes hold up very well.

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Speaker 3: Ones there tech centric you know they've got their issues.

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Speaker 5: Don't don't one of you guys or both maybe have

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Speaker 5: a copy of that poster that a listener made where

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Speaker 5: we were super imposed Aaron Cooper onto the loan Gunman.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there used to be one right there, but yeah

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Speaker 2: we've got one.

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Speaker 3: Okay, And thank you Coop if you're if you're hearing that,

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Speaker 3: I hope you're well and great work. As always. He's uh,

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Speaker 3: he's a legend in the game. So these aren't just

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Speaker 3: you know, Reddit lower four chan type folks saying this,

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Speaker 3: and they're not a bunch of Charlie Days putting red

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Speaker 3: string together in a mail room corkboard. One of the

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Speaker 3: first accusations that go public is from the Prime Minister

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Speaker 3: of Canada, Justin Trudeau. It's September eighteenth, just a few

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Speaker 3: a few months ago, back in twenty twenty three. Trudeau

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Speaker 3: says there are credible allegations the agents of the Indian

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Speaker 3: government carried out an assassination and they killed a Canadian national,

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Speaker 3: Hardeep Singh Nijar, who we mentioned at the top here,

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Speaker 3: a prominent Sikh activist. He was shot dead outside of

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Speaker 3: a temple in Surrey, British Columbia, just a month before

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Speaker 3: that announcement June eighteenth, twenty twenty three, and the timing

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Speaker 3: here is important because pretty quickly after the murder or

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Speaker 3: after the body is found, the leader of Canada is saying,

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Speaker 3: we know who did it and it's not just some dude,

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Speaker 3: it's some dude or dudes on the order of a

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Speaker 3: foreign power.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I think the timing is the most important thing, Ben,

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Speaker 2: because it like three months, It is a pretty good

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Speaker 2: amount of time for whatever, you know, Canadian intelligence organization

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Speaker 2: to do their thing and find out everything they can

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Speaker 2: and then come back with the report to then have

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Speaker 2: you know, the Prime minister go oh wow, I need

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Speaker 2: to say something about this. And I mean three months

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Speaker 2: is exist. It's just perfect, I think for it to

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Speaker 2: actually be an investigation, not just a prime minister coming

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Speaker 2: out for some kind of geopolitical reasons making this kind

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Speaker 2: of accusation, which I don't think he would do anyway, right,

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Speaker 2: there must be sand to it for him to come

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Speaker 2: out on the world stage and say something like this,

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Speaker 2: or at.

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Speaker 3: Least he thought there were sand I mean, maybe, you know,

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Speaker 3: the think is a lot of genuine conspiracies have boring

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Speaker 3: bureaucracy to them, so maybe they add like a net

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Speaker 3: ninety day invoice and they had to make sure the

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Speaker 3: invoice got fulfilled and then they're like, oh, okay, they

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Speaker 3: did do it. So the that is a joke for

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Speaker 3: like two people in an account department. But let's let's

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Speaker 3: talk about how they found him, how did how did

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Speaker 3: he die?

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Speaker 5: So law enforcement found that Najar, in his truck parked

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Speaker 5: outside of the Guru Nanak Sikh Gudwara Temple had died

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Speaker 5: from apparent gunshot once uh And Najar was the president

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Speaker 5: of that very same temple, which is located in Surrey,

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Speaker 5: British Columbia. Najar was a Canadian national, but he was

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Speaker 5: involved in a lot of Sikh activist activity and he

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Speaker 5: was also a secessionist who advocated for the creation of

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Speaker 5: a separate country for Sikhs independent from India itself in

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Speaker 5: the current state of Punjab. In this proposed state would

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Speaker 5: have been called Khalistan.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so there's a lot to unpact there. So he

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Speaker 2: he was killed, he was shot like outside work. Basically

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Speaker 2: where were he and which is you know, could be anything, right,

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Speaker 2: Maybe he had an enemy nobody knew about. Maybe it

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Speaker 2: was local politics, you know, or what it could have been.

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Speaker 2: There's so many reasons exactly, so that that is I

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Speaker 2: think the first thing we need to think about. The

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Speaker 2: other thing is Surrey, BC or British Columbia is just

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Speaker 2: it's it's like a suburb of Vancouver, right so, just

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Speaker 2: north of the northwest border of Washington State and Canada there,

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Speaker 2: so again pretty close to US soil and nothing that

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Speaker 2: has that has anything to do with it. But uh

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Speaker 2: Njar had his own thing going on there. But he

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Speaker 2: was also apparently, at least according to the Indian government,

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Speaker 2: he was really influential in the stuff Noel was just

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Speaker 2: talking about there about wanting wanting the Punjab state to secede,

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Speaker 2: right like, according to the Indian government, he was a

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Speaker 2: big player doing all kinds of crazy stuff on Indian soil,

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Speaker 2: even though he out in Canada.

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Speaker 3: Right he was working remotely. But with terrorism is the idea,

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Speaker 3: And it's because of his affiliation with the Colistan Tiger Force,

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Speaker 3: which is a militant, militant secessionist group. That part is inarguable,

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Speaker 3: that is true. But he was also wanted actively by

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Speaker 3: the Indian government. And we'll get to the Indian perspective

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Speaker 3: in a minute. But the Indian government had for years

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Speaker 3: and years and years said this guy and these following

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Speaker 3: guys are terrorists, They are a danger to the national

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Speaker 3: security of our country. Why on earth are you giving

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Speaker 3: them a free pass? Like in their minds, it's similar

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Speaker 3: to you know, it's similar to if Ben Laden was

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Speaker 3: living in Germany and running a mosque and you wrote

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Speaker 3: to you, wrote to Americael or something repeatedly and said, hey,

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Speaker 3: this guy is responsible for hundreds of deaths, go get him.

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Speaker 3: And then they said, oh, well, you know noted, I

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Speaker 3: hear you, and then didn't do anything. So the Indian

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Speaker 3: government was very frustrated with this for quite some time

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Speaker 3: leading up to the murder, particularly something called their Research

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Speaker 3: and Analysis WING. That is RAW. It's not a wrestling term.

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Speaker 3: India's raw. Raw is India's external intelligence agency raw dogging

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Speaker 3: it well.

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Speaker 2: And they were creating all of these things called fi

402
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Speaker 2: rs from I mean we're talking like twenty eighteen, twenty twenty.

403
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Speaker 2: They were creating their first information reports is what they

404
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Speaker 2: were creating, is what they call them. And they were

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Speaker 2: reports about all kinds of activities. Most of it was

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Speaker 2: like him having surveillance done on particular like government groups

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Speaker 2: or military groups, and they believed that he was planning.

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Speaker 2: Najar was planning an attack of some sort on one

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Speaker 2: of those government groups.

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Speaker 3: Right, and this is based on the actions of the

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Speaker 3: Kalistan separatist movement in the eighties and nineties, in which

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Speaker 3: thousands of people did die, there were terrorist attacks. Najarre

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Speaker 3: had also been warned.

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Speaker 5: Quick question, college town, does that exist or is this

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Speaker 5: just a conceptual the right that's so.

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Speaker 3: He had also been warned by the intelligence community of

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Speaker 3: Canada several times. Officially, they said, look, there are active

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Speaker 3: death threats against you. He was aware of this and

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Speaker 3: he had also been He had also been given the

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Speaker 3: chance to respond to accusations of the Indian government. He

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Speaker 3: spoke to Canadian press and he said, look, I am

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Speaker 3: not doing these things like, yes, I am an activist

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Speaker 3: for Sikh ights. Yes, I do believe that the Sikh

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Speaker 3: people deserve a homeland, a state of their own. But

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Speaker 3: I'm not ordering terrorist attacks. I am not the monster here,

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Speaker 3: I'm not the bad guy.

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Speaker 2: But it is crazy because then, as an observer, everybody

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Speaker 2: else on the planet has to go Okay, Well, I

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Speaker 2: either believe him in his words and that he's telling

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Speaker 2: the truth, or I believe the Indian government and what

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Speaker 2: they're saying and that they're telling the truth, and it

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Speaker 2: just it puts I think it puts the every third

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Speaker 2: party that is not either that huge organization in state

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Speaker 2: government or an individual man. You just have to kind

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Speaker 2: of decide what you believe.

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Speaker 3: Two categorical statements that contradict one another. Yeah, yeah, there's

437
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 3: not really a third way.

438
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 5: Well, and speaking of statements contradicting one another, the believe

439
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 5: the Indian government, you know, vehemently denied those allegations leveled

440
00:26:53,960 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 5: by Trudeau, calling them absurd, basically walking them up to

441
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 5: some sort of political agenda, perhaps the smear campaigns. I'm

442
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 5: sort and we'll get back to the statements a bit later,

443
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 5: but why don't we continue on with the history and

444
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 5: the timeline.

445
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 3: Yes, so, the World Seek Organization of Canada, it is

446
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 3: one of the first groups to say, don't believe the stories,

447
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 3: even before Trudeau makes a statement. They say he was assassinated.

448
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 3: Najar was assassinated by the nation of India upon their orders.

449
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 3: And they said, what's more, he's only one of several

450
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 3: people who were killed. And there's some stuff we talked

451
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: about briefly off air. We'd love your opinions. Fellow conspiracy

452
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 3: realist the WSO World Sikh Organization says that over the

453
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: past few months leading up to Najar's murder, other pro

454
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 3: Colistan activists have been murdered or died in suspicious circumstances.

455
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 3: And again part in our pronunciations here we are not

456
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 3: native speakers. They mentioned people like Peramijit Singh Panjhoir over

457
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 3: in Pakistan who was shot by two gunmen on a

458
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 3: morning walk.

459
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 2: And then that guy was allegedly associated with the Kalistan

460
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: Commando Force, which was which India, at least the government

461
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 2: of India categorizes as a terrorist organizationization. Yeah.

462
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, And while you're noticing here, folks, is something that

463
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: you can see all the world around. One country, you

464
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 3: may designate something a terrorist organization with just cause, with

465
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 3: provable murders and acts of chaos, but other countries don't agree, right, Yeah.

466
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: Well, in that organization believes it is a liberating force

467
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 2: of some kind fighting for good.

468
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 3: Freedom fighters, terrorists, what's your perspective? Yeah, And the other one,

469
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 3: it's a little more controversial, is Avtar Singh Kanda in Britain.

470
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 3: Avtar sing Kanda is the death in what they call

471
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 3: mysterious circumstances. He's thirty e. He's thirty five in June

472
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty three, and he dies following a diagnosis

473
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 3: of acute Mylloyd leukemia, which, if that is an assassination,

474
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 3: does not seem like a very straightforward way to murder

475
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 3: someone long game.

476
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, well then I mean impossible people, I mean, right,

477
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 6: I mean, if you could touch the hospital, if they're

478
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 6: in a hospital at that point.

479
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it depends on whether it fake the diagnosis to

480
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 2: have it be a cover story.

481
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 3: You could just have someone who's not really who's You

482
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 3: could have someone who works at the hospital do some shenanigans.

483
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I touch it exactly. If he's in

484
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 2: the hospital for that the cancer of the blood and

485
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 2: undergoing treatment, right, you could kill him in another way.

486
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 2: The police there in Birmingham, where he was when he died,

487
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 2: are not investigating it because they're like, no, this is

488
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: not suspicious, We're good to go. But that guy again,

489
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: just to keep adding this, called himself at least referred

490
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: to himself as the chief of the Kalistan Liberation Force,

491
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 2: another group designated as a terrorist organization.

492
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 3: So you can see already the roots of the Kalistan

493
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 3: movement are deep. They are multipolar, right, and they have

494
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 3: a lot of support amid the diaspora. Now, having support

495
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 3: amid a diaspora does not mean everybody who wants a

496
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 3: Kalistan around is a terrorist. Far from it. Their people

497
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 3: are saying, hey, why can't we have our thing too,

498
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 3: you know, and that's a very human question. The history

499
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 3: also goes deeper because if you look at India's Punjab state,

500
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 3: one of the larger states the twenty eight states of India,

501
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 3: then you see that it is majority Seek, just barely.

502
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 3: It's about fifty eight percent Seek, thirty nine percent Hindu

503
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 3: self reporting. And that's why there was this violent Kalistan

504
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 3: movement there, or this series of honestly just objectively horrific attacks.

505
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: And today the movement's most vocal advocates are Punjabi diaspora.

506
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 3: And India has again complained often repeatedly before and after

507
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 3: those events of the eighties and nineties. They have complained

508
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 3: about activities of what they say are Sikh hardliners, and

509
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 3: they say, look, you know, you guys might not be

510
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 3: reporting it in the western news, but these folks are

511
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 3: planning horrible, horrible things, bombings of civilians right airports, hospitals,

512
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 3: bombing airplanes and so on. And in March, Indian authorities

513
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 3: called Canada's top diplomat in the country because Sikh protesters

514
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 3: were gathered outside India's diplomatic mission in Canada. So it goes,

515
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 3: it goes much deeper than one person dead in a

516
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 3: pickup truck, right, And then there were more accusations. Right.

517
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe there's fog, war, smoking, mirrors, pomp and circumstance.

518
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: Maybe Trudeau is being told to say these things for

519
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 3: some ulterior motive. Maybe it's just one guy's allegations, one

520
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 3: whistle in the dark. As you mentioned previously. The Indian

521
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 3: government responded said this stuff is politically motivated. It's absurd.

522
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 3: So they're saying there's an ulterior motive. But if we

523
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 3: continue the timeline, we'll see that Canada, when they go

524
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 3: public with these claims, everything goes wrong with their relationship.

525
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 3: They're expelling diplomats left and right. Some of the trades

526
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 3: deal stuff they were working on, which doesn't get widely reported.

527
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 3: That hits a roadblock, and then a bombshell drops. In November.

528
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 3: Uncle Sam tries to have off the books conversation and

529
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 3: gets caught by the.

530
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 5: Media so the United States actually claims that they've discovered

531
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 5: a very similar plan to kill another activist that was

532
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 5: stopped a dual US Canadian citizen by the name of

533
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 5: Gorpa Twant Singh Pannun, who very similarly to U Nijar,

534
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 5: was a prominent Sikh separatist, and the US government claims

535
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 5: that an Indian government official paid one hundred thousand dollars

536
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 5: for a plot to assassinate Pannun.

537
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 4: Doesn't that seem a little.

538
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 5: A little like like like a bit of a deal

539
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 5: one hundred k or is that a standard?

540
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 3: That's a lot of money.

541
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 4: Ye, a lot, and there's a lot of money, but

542
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 4: to kill somebody.

543
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 5: I thought we were thinking maybe uh, upwards of that,

544
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 5: but maybe I don't know what the going rate is

545
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 5: for an assassination these days.

546
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 3: Well it.

547
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: That sounds weird, Like I know, I don't want to

548
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 2: seem like I know too much about this around speaking

549
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 2: with too much authority. I have seen allegations in the

550
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 2: news for murder for higher plots that range from five

551
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: thousand dollars to you know, ten fifteen, twenty five thousand dollars.

552
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: This is actually actually really high.

553
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 4: Oa to what that again, that's very interesting and helpful.

554
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 2: But if it's at a government level that you know,

555
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 2: those are the allegations that somehow, at a government level,

556
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 2: there was going to be one hundred thousand dollars procured,

557
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: procured to pay somebody to pull off a high level assassination.

558
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 4: High level. Also for this rate, you'd be getting a

559
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 4: real pro.

560
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 3: It's also the smallest amount of money that sounds like

561
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 3: a lot of.

562
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 5: Money exist, true exactly, that is true, exactly.

563
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 3: So when when this kind of stuff happens, if they're

564
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 3: the if there is a government tie here, right, if

565
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 3: you follow the money, then what this would indicate is

566
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 3: it's coming from a slush funds coming from some kind

567
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 3: of thing that gets misallocated in the budget. Right, and

568
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 3: who knows, maybe they said, look, send us an invoice

569
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 3: for one hundred grand. It's net ninety day turnaround. So

570
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 3: you'll get the money at that point.

571
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 2: But again, you just had a high enough level person

572
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 2: with enough money, right, you could work that money through

573
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 2: and wouldn't have to touch government ever.

574
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 3: Or if there was somebody who was working with you

575
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,959
Speaker 3: middlemanning it through the government, then they give you three

576
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars, right, and you're a criminal. So a

577
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 3: criminals like high profit margins, right, whether they're on Wall

578
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 3: Street or in the backstreets of your city, criminals like

579
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 3: high profit margins. So we just know that Uncle Sam

580
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 3: is claiming this, and they're not saying approximately, they're saying exactly.

581
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 3: And when they say this, this is the important part.

582
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 3: They are not initially public about these claims. The world

583
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 3: only knows that the US said this because of some

584
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 3: badass journalists led by the Financial Times. True investigative journalist,

585
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 3: your local investigative journalist is almost certainly underpaid, is almost

586
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 3: certainly unappreciated. So next time you hang out with them,

587
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 3: you should pay for the coffee, just just to help

588
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 3: them out, right, and uh, in.

589
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 5: Cases like this, they're they're putting themselves in harm's way oftentimes,

590
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 5: you know, or and danger of retribution.

591
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also be careful of hanging out with journalists,

592
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: and be careful if you're a journalist. We just read

593
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: a story and listened to some reporting about pegasusts being

594
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 2: on reporters phones in several countries, like major newspapers.

595
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 3: It's and then known it's I know, but yeah.

596
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 2: But just the infectious nature of being somebody that likes

597
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 2: to bring truth out into the world to the light.

598
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 2: Uh it seems it seems like a dangerous.

599
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 3: Time well sporting several reviews we're disinfo. So I think

600
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 3: we're fine.

601
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: No, I'm not worried about I mean an actual investigative journalist. Jeez.

602
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 3: So uh So the White House had to respond once.

603
00:36:59,719 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 6: Uh.

604
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 3: Financial Times, in a multi partner investigation, leaked this. What

605
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 3: they said off the record is they told the Indian government,

606
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 3: we have information that links you to a attempt to

607
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 3: murder a dual US Canadian citizen. It's not even an

608
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 3: Indian national, not that that should matter. We're supposed to

609
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 3: prevent assassinations on our soil. So when this news comes out,

610
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 3: the White House has to say something and it falls

611
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 3: to another unappreciated job, having to be the spokesperson for

612
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 3: the White House, having to go in front of the

613
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 3: press club. I don't you know. I'm sure these folks

614
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 3: get paid more than independent journalists, but boy, they have

615
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 3: to take a lot of You think the customer service

616
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 3: repic Comcast has it bad, These people have it worse.

617
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 3: Adrian Watson is the spokesperson who takes the hit on

618
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 3: this and says paraphrasing here says okay, yes, the Financial

619
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 3: Times is right. We did speak to officials of the

620
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 3: Indian government about this, and they expressed surprise and concern

621
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 3: when we told them. They're like, what what's going on? OMG,

622
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 3: you guys, and Watson said, we're treating this with seriousness.

623
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 3: We're talking to the senior most levels about these attempts.

624
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 3: And then later we know an indictment, an indictment was unsealed,

625
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 3: not an in sealment was undicted. An indictment was unsealed

626
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 3: in Manhattan's Federal court, and it finally named some names.

627
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 3: There's a guy named Nikhil Gupta fifty two, an Indian

628
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 3: national who had lived in India, who has been charged

629
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 3: with murder for hire and conspiracy to commit murder for hire.

630
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 3: In case you're wondering, we don't think he's going to

631
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 3: be able to use that one hundred grand for legal fees.

632
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: No, I don't know. I do not.

633
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 3: I don't think that loophole is still a thing.

634
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 2: Nope. Just to go back to the just the concept

635
00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 2: of the White House coming out and having to make

636
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 2: an official statement on this, right, it's such it's such

637
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 2: sticky territory for them. As we've talked about in the

638
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 2: past and as you may have seen in the news,

639
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,959
Speaker 2: the United States has really been positioning a close relationship

640
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 2: with India for all kinds of geopolitical reasons, right, And

641
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: one of the main things is that it's a partner

642
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 2: that is right there, literally adjacent to Russia and China.

643
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,720
Speaker 2: Just hanging out and having them as a close ally

644
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 2: is extremely important for so many reasons to the US.

645
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: And then to have to come out and say, yeah,

646
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 2: it does seem like the country is assassinating people like

647
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 2: over here, everything's fine. I mean, it's really a weird thing.

648
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 3: We did talk, but it was like, you know, they said,

649
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 3: everything but mission's mission siloing, right where you have those

650
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 3: off the books conversations and then attempt to like make

651
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 3: your off the book conversation the world you wanted to

652
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 3: be without without inc looting the other people important to

653
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 3: that conversation, which would be the people who were trying

654
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: not to die, the public that is paying for your job,

655
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 3: et cetera. India signals that they are investigating. They said,

656
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 3: we're going to release a public statement. Don't worry, We're

657
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 3: as surprised as you. Financial Time said its sources did

658
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 3: not say if the US was It did not say

659
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 3: whether the US got to India or got word to

660
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 3: India before the assassination happened, and then the assassination was

661
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 3: abandoned because it was still just planning stages.

662
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 2: That would make sense, right if they were like, hey,

663
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 2: we see you doing this, and don't do this. We're

664
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: trying to make other things happen.

665
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 3: Right, right, we got a good thing going here, Lodi,

666
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 3: or if it was foiled by the FBI. All that

667
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 3: the press can say for sure, All that the public

668
00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 3: can say for sure right now is that this investigation

669
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 3: right The release from the Financial Times and the conversation

670
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 3: that the US had with India appears to have occurred

671
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 3: around when the Prime Minister of India, Neurendra Modi, visited

672
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 3: Joe Biden in June of twenty twenty three. So again,

673
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 3: at the time, I've been talking about a lot of stuff,

674
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 3: and then they had a Hey, by the way, are

675
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 3: you guys trying to kill some people?

676
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly what it was been. Hey, Yeah, while

677
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 2: we grab some tea, just bring it up just casually.

678
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: So okay. That Financial Times article was released November twenty

679
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:48,439
Speaker 2: second in twenty twenty three, So yeah, it totally makes sense. Again,

680
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about those timelines of investigation, right, It's

681
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 2: exactly how long it would take, ben I think from

682
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 2: those conversations and when it would have occurred, when the

683
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 2: amount of time it would have taked for somebody to

684
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 2: choose to release information or come forward with information for

685
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 2: the paper to do the writing and their investigation. It's

686
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 2: really gosh, really interesting that that, Sorry, just the idea

687
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 2: of those powerful people were together, and I always imagine,

688
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 2: I have this picture in my mind of state leaders

689
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 2: talking to each other and I've never actually seen it

690
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 2: in person, like that kind of closed door, just chilling shooting,

691
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: shooting the stuff, you know, with two extremely powerful people,

692
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: and just how much of a dance that must be

693
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 2: with the things that each one knows about the other

694
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 2: one because of their various intelligence arms or whatever.

695
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 3: When when both people in conversation are lying and they

696
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,959
Speaker 3: both know they're lying, the content of the conversation gets

697
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 3: very close to the truth, you know what I mean.

698
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 3: It's it's a very strange double game, but and altering.

699
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 3: These guys are rarely alone when they're speaking. It's it's

700
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 3: pretty extraordinary, which is why the Russians is troubling, but

701
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 3: the US Russian conversations years back. But the other thing

702
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 3: here that I'm sure you're already thinking as well, Matt,

703
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 3: is who was this leak co signed? Because whenever an

704
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 3: official from the US who cannot be named or is

705
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 3: anonymous is talking to the New York Times, there is

706
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 3: a I would say, just spidey sense, there's a more

707
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 3: than fifty percent chance that someone greenlit the leak and

708
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 3: was like, contact our boy or contact our person, our people,

709
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 3: and just don't put your name on it so it

710
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,959
Speaker 3: looks like a leak, so that we can say, oh, wow,

711
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 3: the press is really good. And here's an inside look

712
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 3: at the way the sausage is made. Yeah, it's a

713
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 3: it's a chess move. But there's the other thing too,

714
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 3: like if this so they're already there's already a lot

715
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 3: of obstifcation, right, obsicication. We know that regardless of how

716
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 3: this news got out. Unlike many other homicides or tempted murders,

717
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:12,919
Speaker 3: these activities carry some very heavy baggage because the US

718
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: government is desperately working to have a bulwark or balance

719
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 3: against China, as China continues to grow and expand India

720
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,439
Speaker 3: is the number one draft pick for that. And now

721
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 3: you get to a disturbing cost benefit calculus. The appeal

722
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 3: of being a citizen in any country is the idea

723
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 3: that the government will protect you on some level in

724
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,439
Speaker 3: the grand Yeah, in the grand scheme of things, though,

725
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 3: is a nation? How much will a nation risk for

726
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 3: one person's life? Would a nation, any nation risk the

727
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 3: future of the global order for one person, especially if

728
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 3: some people already think that person is a terrorist?

729
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 4: Oh it's that greater good man. One person doesn't mean.

730
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 2: Jack Well, well, I don't know.

731
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 5: I depending on the person, perhaps, I suppose, but your

732
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 5: average you know, citizens kind of special.

733
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 2: It's just so weird because if that person was extremely

734
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 2: valuable for some kind of economic reason, I think that

735
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 2: one person could be like held up right.

736
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 3: I think that leverage for sure, like Ellon Gonzalez became

737
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 3: very important because Gonzalez was able to be leveraged in

738
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 3: the US political discourse.

739
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 2: Dude, exactly. But this is all just taking me back

740
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 2: to think about how these two guys that we've talked about,

741
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 2: Najar the person who was shot back in June, and

742
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 2: then Panun the person who was this murder plot was

743
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 2: aimed at, right that survived, didn't get killed. Back on

744
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 2: June twenty first of twenty twenty three, the Wire wrote

745
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 2: a story and in that story, just a couple of

746
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 2: sentences here quote Najar was a declared terrorist in India,

747
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 2: wanted in several cases. He was the chief of that

748
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 2: tiger forest that you talked about, ben and he worked

749
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 2: closely with the Seekhs for Justice leader Panun. So it

750
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 2: names Panuon and Najar together in the same article after

751
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 2: Najar gets assassinated. I just to me, that is so

752
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 2: interesting that these two guys both targeted and they're being

753
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 2: talked about together in June around the same time when

754
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 2: this plot is probably happening taking place against Panun.

755
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 3: Curiouser and curiouser, let's pause for a word from our sponsor,

756
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 3: and then to be objective and fair, we're going to

757
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 3: go to the Indian perspective. We've returned, all right, So

758
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 3: we've talked a lot about the ins and outs of this,

759
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 3: the questions, some of which are still going to be

760
00:46:55,560 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 3: very difficult to answer. I think for an interminable out

761
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 3: of time. The Indian government has a weird, somewhat dichotomous

762
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 3: approach to these claims. I mean, they're not mutually exclusive.

763
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 3: You guys, tell me what you think. On the one hand, officials,

764
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 3: high level officials, deny any knowledge of any shenanigans, And

765
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 3: originally they said they were scandalized by the Canadian accusations, absurd,

766
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 3: politically motivated. If you have proof, show us the proof,

767
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 3: and then that will help us help you. But on

768
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:36,439
Speaker 3: the other hand, they're saying, look, Canada, uncle Sam, you're

769
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 3: providing refuge for enemies of our state. We warned you repeatedly.

770
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 3: You never ever listened. The implication being, so, what are

771
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 3: we to do to protect our people? How far would

772
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 3: we go? What is one life in our costs benefit calculus,

773
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 3: or even a couple lives? I mean, I was thinking

774
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 3: it might be helpful, Like do we flip the players

775
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 3: in the roles here? If we do, we see a

776
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 3: crazy precedent, because the United States can, has, and absolutely

777
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 3: will go into a sovereign country proactively eliminate anyone it

778
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 3: feels is a threat past a certain threshold. And the

779
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 3: US isn't usually too quiet about it either.

780
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 2: Guys, because in order for the US to actually get

781
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 2: their hands on this person that they were investigating, Gupta,

782
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: the person who's charged with you know, the murder for

783
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: higher plot. Didn't they use extradition and like go to

784
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 2: another country that then cooperated with them to get the

785
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 2: person they wanted.

786
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was in Uh, he's currently in the Pancrack

787
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 3: prison Pncrock prison in Prague. I think he's still there

788
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 3: as of December. But yeah, they're gonna get him.

789
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and he was. He was in the Czech

790
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 2: Republic when he was arrested, so like and there there

791
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,760
Speaker 2: was a bilateral treaty but or an extradition treaty between

792
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 2: two countries to get their hands on this guy. So

793
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's just the kind of weird thing

794
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 2: where it does feel like playing different playing with playing

795
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 2: the same game with different rules.

796
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 3: What do we say Earlier? The US says you want

797
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 3: the smoke? Turns out you're in the smoking section wherever

798
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 3: you live. And that still doesn't answer who actually did it?

799
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,760
Speaker 3: Who killed this guy in Canada? Right? Who killed Najar?

800
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 3: Who are they related to these other deaths? Is it

801
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:33,760
Speaker 3: one entity planning these things? They successfully conspired in one case?

802
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 3: Did they almost succeed in another. We have to say,

803
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 3: given the historical precedent our earlier series on targeted killings

804
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 3: and assassinations, we can walk through some hypothetical possibilities and

805
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 3: maybe the plausibility. Number one fair question, what if the

806
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 3: Indian government is aware of this at the top level

807
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 3: and does not care. That's very unlikely. That's not how

808
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 3: black ops work. I mean, look at you or wherever

809
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 3: you live, however you feel about your leaders and politicians.

810
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,240
Speaker 3: If you don't live in Russia, then civilian and political

811
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 3: leadership has a series of firewalls between these activities. This

812
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 3: is why, like this is why when your government, any government,

813
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 3: gets up to Shenanigan's, the leaders of that organization can

814
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 3: technically be telling the truth. Well when they say, well,

815
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 3: holy cow, man, I didn't know that happened either, that's crazy.

816
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 5: Indeed, another option is that a faction of the Indian

817
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 5: intelligence community may have triggered perhaps the poor choice of

818
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 5: words this, or knew something was coming and helpfully kind

819
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 5: of turned away to well bird of the sea here,

820
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 5: or provided some kind of perhaps even help.

821
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 4: This is both plausible and plausible.

822
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 5: We can call it plausible because the intelligence communities often

823
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 5: act with this siloed kind of level of autonomy that

824
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 5: verges on like you were saying earlier, planned by a

825
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 5: different set of rules. According to them, you know, the

826
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 5: business as usual, but to the outside it could appear

827
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 5: to be criminal activities, right.

828
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so okay, forgive me bro In my mind, if

829
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 2: if this person was targeted right from the top levels

830
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 2: of an intelligence community, wouldn't that assignment basically go to

831
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 2: one or two people or you know.

832
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it would go to typically what would happen

833
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 3: is you want to be very buttoned up and close

834
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 3: to the chest, so it would go to one or

835
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 3: two people, and then from there maybe only one person

836
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 3: knows who gets the contract or you know, the subcontract,

837
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera, which one is as many shells

838
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 3: as ideally one as many shells as possible, but really

839
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 3: every one of those, every new piece you add, presents

840
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 3: countless vulnerabilities or possibilities for exposure, so you want to

841
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,760
Speaker 3: keep it like quiet. The best secret is the secret

842
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:24,280
Speaker 3: no one knows, right, So I mean, there's another badger

843
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 3: in the bag though here, Matt, which is this murder?

844
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 3: Or we have to say it in the interest of

845
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 3: airness before we get to the really juicy stuff. This murder,

846
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 3: other mysterious deaths, attempted murder. There is the possibility that

847
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 3: they're all unrelated, you know, and these people carrying and

848
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 3: participating in the movement for seekh rights and independence is

849
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 3: a coincidence. That is highly unlikely. That is utterly impossible.

850
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 3: Highly unlikely is far too kind because of the disturbing

851
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 3: thing the badger just mentioned. Five eyes, five eyes is

852
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 3: in the mix. Five eyes is how the US and

853
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 3: Canada know what they know. I guarantee it.

854
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 2: Let's just recap everybody on five eyes. That's the United States, Canada,

855
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:20,240
Speaker 2: not Mexico, United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia.

856
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 3: And New Zealand.

857
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 2: New Zealand, and they all share intelligence. The extent to

858
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 2: which they share one of intelligence, We're unsure which players

859
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 2: give eighty five percent, which ones give twenty five percent?

860
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,240
Speaker 2: Who knows they all?

861
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 3: I think they all sort of share choice pieces of

862
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,879
Speaker 3: the puzzle when convenient for them.

863
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 2: I think that's exactly how to do it.

864
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:45,479
Speaker 4: Yep.

865
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 5: Some light reading on the subject can be found in

866
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 5: these stuff they Don't want you to know.

867
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 3: Book illustrated by the One and Only Admiral turbo nick

868
00:53:54,600 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 3: you and so yeah, five Eyes is scary, folks. Does

869
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 3: your religious, political, demographic stuff, your ideologies of choice, they

870
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 3: do not matter. This is a very This is like

871
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 3: the closest version to Big Brother in real life in

872
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 3: terms of public public state craft. Right, private industries may

873
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 3: be up to some other stuff, but Five Eyes touches

874
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 3: them too. It is simply reality. So they we know

875
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 3: Five Eyes is involved because an unnamed Canadian official said,

876
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 3: we drew our conclusions based on intel provided by a

877
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 3: major ally a member of the Five Eyes Intelligence.

878
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 2: Sharing Alliance, Like yep, checks out.

879
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 3: Checks out, because what can't those guys touch, you know,

880
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 3: other than firewalled other than firewalled hardware, for like Iranian

881
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 3: nuclear cap abilities.

882
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but okay, so it makes me wonder if there

883
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 2: were actually if there was an agent or two or

884
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:12,399
Speaker 2: actual human assets from one of these Five Eyes organizations

885
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 2: in the Czech Republic checking up on Gupta before he

886
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 2: was arrested, which it always i'll I don't. I always

887
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 2: wonder about not jurisdiction, that's not the right word for it,

888
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 2: but just operating in another country that has an extradition

889
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 2: treaty signed with the US and they're you know, investigating

890
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 2: a murder, a murder for higher plot inside the United

891
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 2: States and New York City. So they just go to

892
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 2: the Czech Republic and they like watch a person and

893
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 2: then share some intel. But like, it could have been

894
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 2: any it could have been any of the major Five

895
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 2: Eyes countries that was actually that actually had agents there

896
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 2: looking at which.

897
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 3: Also gives them another version of plausible deniability. Right, it

898
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 3: could have been one of the five So now we're

899
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 3: playing the game of clue, right. So the it's it's

900
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 3: strange too because Canada says that they caught they caught

901
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:10,760
Speaker 3: info from UH from a member of the Indian diplomacy

902
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 3: outfit who was using a government phone to plan some

903
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 3: of this, which is just egregious. And I don't know, man,

904
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 3: I don't I don't buy that. Honestly, that's way too

905
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 3: sloppy for a professional.

906
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 2: I think, oh, yeah, that's hard to imagine unless they

907
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 2: don't usually do that kind of thing and were instructed

908
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 2: to somehow or were urged to, I don't know, and

909
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,760
Speaker 2: they didn't know what they were doing. But that doesn't

910
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 2: that doesn't feel it feels to me.

911
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 3: It feels like it feels like something you would see

912
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 3: on HBO. I mean, maybe they just had really bad

913
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 3: code phrases too. Maybe they were just like mister Gupta,

914
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 3: I hear you paint houses, you know, like like that's

915
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,359
Speaker 3: I don't know, it seems weird. I mean, there are

916
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 3: other possibilities not proven, and what if there's a criminal

917
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,919
Speaker 3: syndicate or something on the wrong side of the law,

918
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 3: like the mob here in the US in India, and

919
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 3: they're working independently because they they happen to have aligning

920
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 3: interest right they don't want the colistan to exist for

921
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 3: reasons of their own, or maybe there's money involved. I mean,

922
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 3: the US historically doesn't mind working with the mob or warlords.

923
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 3: The Japanese government has worked with the Yaquaza before, like it.

924
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 2: Well, if you leave the stories about the MLK assassination,

925
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 2: the US government worked with like small organized small town

926
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 2: organized crime in order to carry out that assassination.

927
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 3: And they did it with the approval of larger organized

928
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 3: crime associates. And the thing is, the smaller you go,

929
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 3: the less you have to pay as well.

930
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 4: It's just so wow, No.

931
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 3: It's it's crazy. I mean there's also okay, the last one,

932
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 3: what if a third party threw some chaos into the dance,

933
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 3: you know, because both Canada and the US are extremely

934
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 3: focused on improving relations with India before this string of deaths.

935
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 3: From a cost benefit perspective, if you wanted that not

936
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 3: to happen, this would be a very cost effective, asymmetrical

937
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 3: way of stopping it.

938
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 4: So just sewing some chaos, you know, for your own

939
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 4: financial benefit.

940
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 3: Hey, Venezuela, you got to protect yourself from Guyana, et cetera.

941
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 3: Walk down the street for that one. But so Prime

942
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 3: Minister Mody recently, as of December twentieth, I think twentieth

943
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 3: or twenty first responded publicly in his first real public

944
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 3: statements about this. He said, look, these are a few incidents.

945
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 3: We want to maintain diplomatic ties and improve diplomatic ties

946
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 3: between the US and India. And also, and he spoke

947
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 3: with the Financial Times by the way, he said, look,

948
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 3: if someone gives us any information, we'll definitely look into it.

949
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 3: Because I don't know what's happening. Is the implication I

950
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 3: plausibly deny any activity in this regard. That could be sincere.

951
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 3: It could be I don't know, if you since we're

952
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 3: playing the paranoia game, that could also be a challenge

953
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 3: to say, tell us how you know this, tell us

954
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 3: how you collect information?

955
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 4: Can we just.

956
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 2: Stop playing the paranoia game, everybody, I'm so over it.

957
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 3: Ah, it's weird, so over it. I mean maybe Mody

958
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 3: is over it as well. He did reiterate the claim

959
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 3: India has made again continually. He said, Look, this separate

960
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 3: is violence is real. We're very concerned about terrorist and

961
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 3: extremist groups and they're operating with a parent impunity from

962
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 3: the safety of other countries. Help us, please, you know.

963
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 2: And that's isn't that similar to the United States questioning

964
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 2: a Pakistan right in other countries that were quote harboring terrorists, right,

965
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 2: and like you're either with us or you're against us.

966
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 2: It's this same thing in my mind.

967
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 3: A false dichotomy perhaps, right like or a dichotomy. At

968
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 3: least it reminds me of a Do you remember when

969
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 3: Pervez Musherief showed up on The Daily Show? John Stewart

970
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 3: interviewed him. Yeah, it was very weird situation.

971
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 2: I remember reading about the production to make it happen,

972
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 2: but I don't remember the interview at all.

973
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 3: I don't remember well. With our powers combined because I

974
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 3: don't remember, I'm sure there was a ton of weird

975
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 3: stuff going into the production of that. But I remember

976
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 3: the interview. I was like, either John Stewart is excellent

977
01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 3: at this job or Musha Reef is strangely charismatic. I

978
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 3: don't like that. You're rolling with the jokes man, I

979
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 3: know what you did. But anyway, that's the story for

980
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 3: another night. Perhaps we see what appears to be a

981
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 3: genuine conspiracy here. We just don't know all the pieces,

982
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 3: but like they say in that tool song, we know

983
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 3: the piece is fit right. We also know that there's

984
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 3: no escaping the fact people are dead. Events have been

985
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 3: set in motion, and maybe one of the best ways

986
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 3: to end this is to say something to the Sikh

987
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 3: communities in the US and Canada diasper. Overall, this is

988
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 3: just regular people. They got all the joys and concerns

989
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 3: and fears of any other civilian, and now as a

990
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 3: result of these things, they're wondering if their own governments

991
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 3: will protect them should assassins come to call. And that's

992
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 3: a horrible thing to have to wonder.

993
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, no, really, it really is. Hey

994
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 2: yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

995
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe someone listening now knows the answer.

996
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 2: I hope, So I hope you do and you'll write

997
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 2: to us, but just quickly, if you want to dig

998
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 2: deep into this, there is something of the Australian Broadcasting

999
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 2: Company put out on September nineteenth last year called Canada

1000
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 2: and India have expelled each other's top diplomats in the

1001
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 2: last twenty four hours. Here's why Australia is deeply concerned.

1002
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 2: To me, that is one of the strangest titles for

1003
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 2: an article that I can imagine right the headline for

1004
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 2: an article like Okay, Canada and India are doing this thing.

1005
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 2: Here's why Australia is concerned. In my mind, I don't

1006
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 2: connect any of that stuff, but it takes us back

1007
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 2: to our discussion about five eyes, which is I think

1008
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 2: it's worth your time to dive into that. If you're

1009
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 2: listening to this right now, and there's so many articles

1010
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 2: out there that you do kind of have to go

1011
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 2: back in time and build like the story as you

1012
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 2: go if you really want to dive deep. So I

1013
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 2: just you know, a good place to start is probably

1014
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 2: the assassination that occurred in June of twenty twenty three,

1015
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 2: right one, the one that was in Canada. Like, start

1016
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 2: there if you're going to look into this and then

1017
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 2: just kind of let it flow.

1018
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 3: And go back to the early two thousands too. Yes,

1019
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 3: oh my god, Holistan activism anyway. Five is shys or

1020
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 3: watch it you You see your every move and they

1021
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 3: might know when you email us, we can't hear. We

1022
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 3: can't wait to hear what you Yeah, that's a setup.

1023
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 2: We'll say that, actually they will.

1024
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, like for that's true, So tread lightly, use a

1025
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 5: spoofed email account, and definitely give yourself a fun nickname.

1026
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 5: You can also reach out to us online in other

1027
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 5: ways like social media where we are conspiracy stuff on Facebook,

1028
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 5: YouTube and x fka Twitter, Conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram,

1029
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 5: and tikeny talk.

1030
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 2: Hey, you can call us just like Headmaster did back

1031
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 2: in August last year. Call one eight three three std WYTK.

1032
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 2: It's a voicemail system. When you call in, you'll get

1033
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 2: three minutes. Please give yourself a cool nickname and let

1034
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 2: us know if we can use your message and voice

1035
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 2: on the air. You can always just say things like

1036
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 2: and hey, don't put this part in there, and then

1037
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 2: say something and then say okay, now you can keep

1038
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 2: going here. It's actually kind of cool. Give us edit

1039
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 2: points we'll make it work. If you don't want to

1040
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 2: do that stuff, but you still want to write to us,

1041
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 2: maybe send us links. You've got attachments, anything, pictures of

1042
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 2: your cat, We love those.

1043
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 3: We are the folks who read every single email we

1044
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 3: get conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. Happy twenty twenty four, folks.

1045
01:04:50,640 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 3: We can't wait to hear from you.

1046
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

1047
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1048
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.