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Speaker 1: Hey, Welcome into the All Ball Podcast. I am your host,

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Speaker 1: Doug gottli You can check out the Doug Gottlieb Show

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Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Radio daily twelve to three Eastern, three

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Speaker 1: to six Pacific. We do not we do not talk

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Speaker 1: about basketball seven or even sometimes often on the Doug

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Speaker 1: Gollip Show. That's why we created this, the All Ball Podcast,

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Speaker 1: All Basketball, all the time. Um, Dari Ravella is gonna

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Speaker 1: join me. He is the sports business guru, and um

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Speaker 1: I'll get his take on the China Houston Rockets controversy.

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Speaker 1: I'll only say this, it's and it's really really important

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Speaker 1: for people to understand, like I actually think you can

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Speaker 1: do both. I think you can have virtue, you can

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Speaker 1: be progressive, you can think of other people's human rights

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Speaker 1: and not engage and involve yourself in international politics. I can. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's the nature of of of really any businesses that

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Speaker 1: I remember studying World War One that began because of

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Speaker 1: conflicting alliances. And I think we we we always have

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Speaker 1: that problem as human beings, is that the conflicting alliances

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Speaker 1: or the idea of can I be Can I have

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Speaker 1: virtue and be virtuous and yet turn my turn a

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Speaker 1: blind eye to others, lack of virtue for the almighty

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Speaker 1: dollar one reveled joined us and tell us just how

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Speaker 1: many dollars are involved in this thing? But too, this

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Speaker 1: is like super important. Um, you know, like I get you,

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Speaker 1: you might. I've worked down for three media companies. I

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Speaker 1: won't tell you which media company I would say I'm

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Speaker 1: politically aligned with. But there are people that are on

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Speaker 1: TV for each of the three companies, are on radio

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Speaker 1: for each of the three companies, who I don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: respect their perspective or opinion on anyone, any one of

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Speaker 1: a million topics. Um, there are things that are done

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Speaker 1: in business in my industry, people we take money from.

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Speaker 1: Um that I'm not that I can say, hey, behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes, I don't want to take money from them.

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Speaker 1: But what I can't do is I can't crush a sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Even if it's a sponsor that I don't want, it's

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Speaker 1: other sponsors sit there and go like, wait, wait, if

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Speaker 1: if this is how he's going to react to this,

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Speaker 1: what if we do something he doesn't like, That's that's business.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I I And and in this particular case,

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Speaker 1: it's important because even if it's business, it's international business.

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Speaker 1: And while you cannot like the human rights efforts going

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Speaker 1: on in China, I also think you can kind of

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Speaker 1: point out it's not our country. And these are things

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Speaker 1: like and NFL has this as well, in a in

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Speaker 1: a different scale. Right, the NFL is, well, I hate

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Speaker 1: thres An football games. Okay, you're gonna give back the money, right,

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Speaker 1: you can. You're gonna give back the money that you

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Speaker 1: make because of the new TV deal which includes Thursday

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Speaker 1: night football with Fox, which is exponentially more money than

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Speaker 1: NBC and CBS were playing combined beforehand. Of course you're not,

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Speaker 1: of course you're not. You fight the battles that you

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Speaker 1: can win or that you can at least have an

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Speaker 1: effect on. And that's the same NBA players like, Listen,

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Speaker 1: you can't stand against China all you want. You're allowed to.

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Speaker 1: But one, your employers aren't gonna like that because it

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Speaker 1: hurts their bottom line. And two, and this is kind

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Speaker 1: of most importantly, like you're gonna get that money back.

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Speaker 1: This is like NBA players saying, I want to shorten season, Man,

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Speaker 1: do I want to shorten season? Just too long? Like, okay, cool,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get that money back. So my first takeaway

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Speaker 1: for Darryl Moray and like I've done stupid ship with

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Speaker 1: Twitter is that was a stupidest thing on Twitter. It

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Speaker 1: just was. Now he has become the story, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of and the the rockets have become the story

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Speaker 1: in the NBA, and it has in many ways brought

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Speaker 1: attention to something that like I think we thought it

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Speaker 1: was going on, but I don't know. You ask average

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Speaker 1: guy in the street, like, all right, who's got the

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Speaker 1: most mistreated workers? We think, you know, Malaysia and Indonesia

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Speaker 1: and and sweatshops making our sneakers. We don't think of China,

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Speaker 1: although when we stop and think, we're like, yeah, China

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Speaker 1: sounds like a pretty oppressive regime. Although it feels like

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Speaker 1: maybe they're trying to come pull out of it, you know, Um,

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Speaker 1: so I guess mission accomplished. And maybe now Darryl Morey

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Speaker 1: becomes unfi able, Like this is one of those deals

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Speaker 1: to where it's gonna be really hard to file fire

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Speaker 1: Darryl Morey when this is a make or break here,

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Speaker 1: because think about this way he gets fired. Now he

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Speaker 1: gets well, you get fired because you're cowering to China.

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Speaker 1: Like no, actually, he would get fired because he's hurting

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Speaker 1: the business of the entire NBA and the business of

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Speaker 1: the Houston Rockets. Those are fireball offenses. But he could

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Speaker 1: be a martyrari if he is. If he is fired

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Speaker 1: from his position, and he has done a good job.

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Speaker 1: He has taken some risks that you don't need to take,

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Speaker 1: including this tweet. But it is Twitter. I can't remember

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Speaker 1: who first told me that, but Twitter is gonna get

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Speaker 1: us all fired. Case in point, Darryl moriy. So. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: my my summation of it is it's always dicey to

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Speaker 1: go out of sponsor somewhere that your company is gonna

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Speaker 1: get revenue from like that. It feels like a bad idea.

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Speaker 1: And then when you're talking about another country's politics like

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Speaker 1: we just have no I actually think people give Steve

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Speaker 1: kerrshit because the first day he was like, look, I

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Speaker 1: don't study this stuff. My brother in law is a lawyer.

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Speaker 1: He knows more about this stuff. Like I just when

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Speaker 1: you're just speaking out of your ass, which is what

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Speaker 1: people do. People do it about Israeli politics. They talk

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Speaker 1: about israel I've you know, all the time I've heard people,

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Speaker 1: you know, the human rights efforts and what's happening over like,

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Speaker 1: unless you've lived and you are over there, you probably

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Speaker 1: shouldn't comment on it because you really don't know, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that's kind of what we do

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Speaker 1: about politics within our own country, even though different cities,

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Speaker 1: different areas are so different than the places in which

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Speaker 1: these stars and rich people live. I get it. But

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Speaker 1: when it's literally not your country, literally halfway across the world,

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Speaker 1: literally a different constitution coming from a completely different perspective

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Speaker 1: and different value system, I'm sorry, but sometimes guys, you

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Speaker 1: gotta set this one out. It doesn't pertain to you. Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm a paid opinionist. I'm paid specifically to give strong

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Speaker 1: opinions on sports, and this does kind of kind of

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Speaker 1: revolve around sports because it is the NBA. But dude,

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Speaker 1: I have no opinion on it. I'm sorry, I just don't.

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Speaker 1: I have no Indian on the human rights violations of China.

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Speaker 1: What it looks like now, what it used to look like.

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Speaker 1: Am I sympathetic to it? Yeah? But I don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's better now than it used to be.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the protections. I don't know. We

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Speaker 1: have enough problems of our own to kind of worry

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Speaker 1: about it seems a weird one to take a stand

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Speaker 1: done't in to anybody else. Now. What it also signifies, though, is,

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Speaker 1: though I pointed out that and and maybe this is

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Speaker 1: that Daryl Morey is unfire able. This does make it

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Speaker 1: easier for UM for Tina to fire him at the

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Speaker 1: end of the year or before the year. Remember, they

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Speaker 1: got rid of almost the entire coaching staff except for

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Speaker 1: the head coach. They'd come in and the owner and

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Speaker 1: said like, now we're we're doing it. It leads you

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Speaker 1: to believe that owner in GM don't see eye to eye.

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Speaker 1: And whenever that happens, somebody lose their job, and it's

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Speaker 1: usually the m This makes it, This gives them an

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Speaker 1: easier out even if they go far in the playoffs. Hey,

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Speaker 1: it's not just about the playoffs. That heard his business

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Speaker 1: wise and we gotta move on. That's real. But it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a fascinating year in Houston, and somehow the

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Speaker 1: people in China are gonna have to figure out a

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Speaker 1: way to get those games on TV. Right, I just

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Speaker 1: can't imagine being in China. You're already part of an

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Speaker 1: impressive regime. Right, you don't work for enough money, you

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Speaker 1: don't have it. You're there smag everywhere. Now a sudden,

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Speaker 1: you can't see your favorite NBA team play like man,

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Speaker 1: I was really looking forward to Lebron and Uh and

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Speaker 1: a d playing together. I'll give you quickly a couple

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Speaker 1: of a couple of takes NBA wise, before we get

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Speaker 1: to Darren Ravel. Here's one. I do like what I'm

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Speaker 1: seeing from the Lakers early on, and it is super

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Speaker 1: interesting to me that Uh, that the guy that people

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Speaker 1: are talking most about in training camp is Um is

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Speaker 1: somebody who I think fits really well with Lebron, and

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Speaker 1: he went from being overvalued to undervalued. Look, Avery Bradley

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Speaker 1: has to make shots, but he's a tremendous defender. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't need the basketball to be successful. And I think

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Speaker 1: you know, by year's end, it's gonna be Anthony Davis, Lebron,

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Speaker 1: James Um, Avery Bradley, Danny Green. And then the question is,

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Speaker 1: you know, can they get away with Alex Caruso? Right?

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Speaker 1: Can Crusoe make enough shots because he's big, he can defend,

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Speaker 1: he can really defend Um, He's an excellent ball mover.

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Speaker 1: Can he make enough shots playing off the basketball, playing

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Speaker 1: off Lebron in order to be success because if he can,

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Speaker 1: that gives them then they can bring Contavious Colwell Pope

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Speaker 1: off the bench, or Avery Bradley off the bench. But

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Speaker 1: that to me feels like they're finishing lineup. We told

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Speaker 1: you going back a month ago that Paul George wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be ready at the start of the season. And it's

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Speaker 1: weird because Paul George probably could be ready at the

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Speaker 1: start of the season. But the way NBA teams are

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Speaker 1: acting now, they're wrapping these guys in bubble tape. Um.

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Speaker 1: But the Clippers are gonna be kind of an interesting evolution, right,

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Speaker 1: everybody's gonna come for them. They open up with the Lakers,

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Speaker 1: the Warriors, they go to the Suns, who I think

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Speaker 1: are gonna be far improved. Um, they go to the

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Speaker 1: Jazz in that first month. Wouldn't surprise me if in

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Speaker 1: the month of October when they begin their NBA season

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Speaker 1: they're just a five team. No Paul George trying to

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Speaker 1: You're not gonna get Kawhi Leonard every night, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's different to play basketball with those superstars that said

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Speaker 1: end of the year injury notwithstanding, they they should be outstanding. Um,

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Speaker 1: I told you, I think the Suns are gonna be

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Speaker 1: dramatically improved. I think the Nuggets are built for a

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Speaker 1: great regular season because they're so incredibly deep. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they they they're gonna go ten deep, but they can

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Speaker 1: legitimately go twelve deep. That doesn't help you necessarily in

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Speaker 1: the playoffs, but it will help you a ton in

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Speaker 1: the regular season. And and I don't see it with

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Speaker 1: the Golden State Warriors, Like, do I think they could

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Speaker 1: be a playoff team? Yeah? I think Steph Curry is

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Speaker 1: gonna put up crazy numbers. Yeah, But I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: if people understand exactly what they've lost, not just Kevin Durant,

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Speaker 1: Kevin Durant's versatility defensively as well as his ability just

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Speaker 1: carry you on bad nights. You're gonna play without Clay

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Speaker 1: Thompson for the first half of the year at least,

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Speaker 1: and he was your best defender, and you don't have

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Speaker 1: Andrea Adala, who wasn't a great regular season player. But

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Speaker 1: when you want to downship became your best, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of your best defenders, and Sean Livingston like all

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Speaker 1: of this become an incredibly young team that doesn't have

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Speaker 1: any depth on the inside, any really size on the inside,

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Speaker 1: and it does feel like the NBA will value that

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Speaker 1: a little bit more this year. And while Steph is

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Speaker 1: gonna put up crazy numbers and take crazy shots, that's

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Speaker 1: a lot to carry and that allows him he's gonna

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Speaker 1: have to be allowed to take breaks on defense and

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Speaker 1: not switch. The rest of their team is just not

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Speaker 1: as good defensively. A right, Like, there's a yeah, D'Angelo

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Speaker 1: Russell statistically could fill in for either Clay or Kevin Durhett.

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Speaker 1: The problem with him, he's not nearly as good as

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Speaker 1: either defensively, and he changes the way you have to

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Speaker 1: play offensively. I'm not totally sure they're a playoff team.

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Speaker 1: Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug

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Speaker 1: Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific

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Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's welcome in Darren Ravel. Darren Velle is

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Speaker 1: a sports business reporter for the Action Network. You can

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Speaker 1: fall on Twitter at Darren Ravel And look, he's somebody

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Speaker 1: that he kind of created this niche as far as

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Speaker 1: being a business reporter, and he's been the guy, been

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Speaker 1: the guy for fifteen years doing this stuff. All Right,

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Speaker 1: de Rob, thanks so much, for joining us. How big

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Speaker 1: a deal is China to the NBA. Okay, so, China

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Speaker 1: to the NBA. Um, it's probably a seven fifty million

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Speaker 1: dollar a year business. Um. You know, I saw the

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Speaker 1: reports about the salary cap potentially being reduced by I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't say that's possible. Um, but if they lost all

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Speaker 1: China business, you know, I could see you know, six

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Speaker 1: eight hundred million being taken off basketball related income, which

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Speaker 1: which is what what is? Okay, So listen, that's a

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Speaker 1: huge number. Okay, that's that's a yearly number. You're you're

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Speaker 1: giving us, Yes, how much? So what's the basketball related

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Speaker 1: income for a year in like what what percentage? Eight?

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Speaker 1: Eight eight billion? Nine billion? Yeah, okay, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: it's between eight, it's between eight and ten. Like. That's

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Speaker 1: that's substantial. That's that's that's big. That's and it has

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Speaker 1: and it has almost unlimited growth to which is the

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Speaker 1: big part of it in it correct, which is why

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Speaker 1: they've invested so much time into it. Listen, there's so much.

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Speaker 1: There's so much into this. Um. There's there's more colossal

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Speaker 1: loss because there's potentially immediate loss from the rockets value

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Speaker 1: alone until one for Tita just paid two point two

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Speaker 1: billion to buy the Rockets. It wasn't the Memphis Grizzlies

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Speaker 1: uh GM who said something. Was the Rockets GM, which

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Speaker 1: they're the team with the greatest upside. He probably paid

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Speaker 1: a premium of fifteen to because of the Rockets being

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Speaker 1: disproportionately liked in China because of yelloming. So if if

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Speaker 1: you were to tell me that for the next five years,

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Speaker 1: the Rockets are now going to be the most hated

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Speaker 1: team in China and they're all their gear will not

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Speaker 1: be able to be in stores, um, I would tell

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Speaker 1: you that that's probably a three million dollar valuation loss

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Speaker 1: for the Rockets alone on one tweet. That's I don't

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Speaker 1: know whether speaks to the power of Twitter, how how

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Speaker 1: dumb it was, um, because I do think, like I

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Speaker 1: understand having virtue and doing the right thing. But it's

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Speaker 1: still like all of us have bosses, right, we all

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Speaker 1: have jobs and we have to It doesn't mean you

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Speaker 1: have to kiss China's ass, but it does mean that

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Speaker 1: you there's certain things you can't do, all right, So

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Speaker 1: so hold on, but hold let me let me as

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Speaker 1: as you and I have sent some ill advised tweets

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Speaker 1: in our life, I probably sent maybe five. I probably

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Speaker 1: put out five to ten tweets out of my hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty five thousand tweets that have been bad, And

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Speaker 1: I would say that all of them have one thing

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Speaker 1: in common. I probably knew that they were not the

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Speaker 1: greatest things to say, especially Twitter, because Twitter, by its natures,

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Speaker 1: out of context. I think I was distracted every single time,

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Speaker 1: whether I was, you know, putting something out while I

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Speaker 1: was rocking my son to sleep or something like that.

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Speaker 1: I just was not focused. And I believe Daryl Morey

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Speaker 1: is a smart guy. I believe he knew that shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have been said or could not be said. Um as

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Speaker 1: a you know, he's the GM of the rockets in

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Speaker 1: his position. UM but I think he was probably distracted

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Speaker 1: and doing something else, and that I'm going to give

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Speaker 1: him the benefit of the doubt. That being said, you

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Speaker 1: cost your boss three million, I don't know if you're

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Speaker 1: going to get fired. Usually you're fired. But now there's

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Speaker 1: this whole Well, if you fire him, you're saying that

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Speaker 1: his speech isn't free in this is America, so very

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Speaker 1: complex thing we're dealing with here. Um, Okay, I do agree. Now,

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Speaker 1: I guess the the one question, Well, there's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of questions I would have. First is how reparable is it? Right?

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Speaker 1: Because I do feel like that some of this stuff

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Speaker 1: everybody reacts, you know that every business says we're out

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Speaker 1: and we're not doing They're like, all right, we called

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Speaker 1: kind of caught our breath. It was one bad tweet.

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Speaker 1: How reparable is it? Having been to China three times?

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Speaker 1: And did you play in China or Russia? Russia? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Uh and spending six weeks there. Um, it will take

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Speaker 1: a very long time to undo this. Um. It's just

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Speaker 1: that's the one thing you can't do now. IM. What's

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Speaker 1: what's what's a very long time? Uh? Okay. So here's

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Speaker 1: the problem. China will want to see that you were

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Speaker 1: sorry and you were wrong right in a way that

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Speaker 1: UM that democracy and human rights UM. The way that

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Speaker 1: they have it set up their lack of democracy and

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Speaker 1: certainly they're well accounted for, UM, lack of care for people. UM.

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Speaker 1: They want they want to hear there. They want the apology,

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Speaker 1: We're sorry for saying that, And the NBA can never

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Speaker 1: do that. That's the problem because of the pressure of

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Speaker 1: what this country represents, and the NBA as an American institution.

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Speaker 1: So the reason why I say long is because Adam

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Speaker 1: Silver can never give China what they ultimately want. And

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Speaker 1: that's when you're talking about negotiations, you know. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, or does China needs but does does China

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Speaker 1: need us? Don't don't those don't don't that's a good follow,

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Speaker 1: That's a good follow because I truly believe that China

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Speaker 1: was gonna lock. The Chinese government was going to lock

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Speaker 1: the arena and not let us play. I thought they

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Speaker 1: would also uh not allow Chinese citizens to show up

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Speaker 1: because that was supporting the NBA. Both those things happened.

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Speaker 1: They played and people freely sat in the stands um

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Speaker 1: so yes. In the end, I think it showed that

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Speaker 1: there is leverage from the NBA. Now they didn't know it.

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Speaker 1: On Chinese TV, all the sponsors pulled. There was nothing

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Speaker 1: on the court. But that's why I I considered it

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Speaker 1: for business alone. Again, this is so complex for business alone.

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Speaker 1: Whether you agree, uh the NBA should be in this

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Speaker 1: business or not. I think playing was the win for

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Speaker 1: Adam Silver. Would it have been different if it was

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Speaker 1: David Stern because it feels like because it feels because

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Speaker 1: Adam Silver Adam Silver has a lot more goodwill going

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Speaker 1: into this than David Stern with every with everybody or

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Speaker 1: with China, with the player I know he has. Adam

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Speaker 1: Silver is a ton more good will with the players.

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Speaker 1: But but almost a little bit almost feels a little

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Speaker 1: bit too much like yeah, you guys, are you do

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Speaker 1: run the risk of of of of half the country

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Speaker 1: not liking you, Right, that's kind of what you but

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Speaker 1: so so so part of me also believe Lebron wasn't

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Speaker 1: gonna play, right because he you know, eight million dollars

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Speaker 1: of his annual money that comes in is probably well,

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Speaker 1: let's just say four million dollars of his money is

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Speaker 1: directly coming from China. Okay, so you know, does does

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Speaker 1: does he do that? Does he not play? But then

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Speaker 1: but then China want the people in the in the

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Speaker 1: crowd want him to play. But yes, David Stern did

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Speaker 1: not have what Adam Silver had with the players. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I think it ultimately came down the decision to

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Speaker 1: make that dress code, which UM, African American players went

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Speaker 1: nuts on that that that's that's an older white guy

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Speaker 1: imposing how he wants you to look, and that that

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Speaker 1: did a lot of damage. UM, whereas Adam Silver made

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Speaker 1: the only decision he had to, but did it definitely

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Speaker 1: with Donald Sterling. And so so I do think that

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Speaker 1: Adam Silver, in the general public sense, because this is

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Speaker 1: all about the general public and the pressure that they

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Speaker 1: put on on Adam Silver in the NBA, I think

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Speaker 1: that he had a lot of good will going in

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Speaker 1: more than Stern would have. All Right, last thing, and

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Speaker 1: this is a maybe a little thing, but this is

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Speaker 1: an all basketball podcast. There's a lot of these players

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Speaker 1: as Clay Thompson's to the world, there's Dwyane Wade did

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Speaker 1: for years. They have these deals with Chinese shoe brands,

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Speaker 1: and now those shoe brands are saying they're out on

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Speaker 1: the NBA. What happens to those players and their deals

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Speaker 1: with the shoe companies? Now, yeah, Dwyane Wade has this

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Speaker 1: lifetime Leaning deal. Obviously he's out of the leak, but

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Speaker 1: but it's a pretty big deal. Um and and Clay

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Speaker 1: Thompson has the anti deal. Um they need basketball otherwise

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Speaker 1: they're they're in trouble. I mean, basketball is so loved,

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Speaker 1: they loved in China. Um, I don't leaning. His has

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Speaker 1: suffered with trying to do a lot of other business.

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Speaker 1: Basketball has been good to them, um, so I think

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Speaker 1: that they Again, this is so complex. Leaning the namesake

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Speaker 1: of Leaning is the you know, Olympic gymnasts who won

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Speaker 1: so many medals. And then he started his own clothing

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Speaker 1: and shoe brand and became number one in China. So

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Speaker 1: he's directly connected with China. What happens if he says

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Speaker 1: I need basketball, I need Clay Thompson And what does

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Speaker 1: the Chinese government say? And how do they penalize them?

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Speaker 1: I mean, they make Leaning irrelevant. They could take them

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Speaker 1: out of stores. So the power that the government wheels

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Speaker 1: is is very big. But I would also say that

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Speaker 1: basketball is so important to these brands. What what's the

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Speaker 1: next phase of the story. Well, I assume that there's

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Speaker 1: going to be some sort of uh edict from Adam

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Speaker 1: Silver about commenting on this, and it depends on how

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Speaker 1: right So Steve Kerve Do we believe that Steve Kurt

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Speaker 1: doesn't know enough about Hong Kong and and how it

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Speaker 1: operates politically? I don't believe that. I think Steve Kerr

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Speaker 1: is very smart and he's and he's up on world issues.

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Speaker 1: I do believe that most of the players do not

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Speaker 1: understand how Hong Kong works, um, and what's going on

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Speaker 1: and what the issue is. So the question becomes as

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Speaker 1: they learn more, does the NBA put out fact sheets,

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Speaker 1: give them fact sheets? Does the NBA quote unquote allow

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Speaker 1: them to speak? Does every team say every question must

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Speaker 1: be on basketball? Um? And then the question becomes, how

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Speaker 1: compromised our players in everything social that they've done because

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Speaker 1: they didn't speak on China? Um? And how and how

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Speaker 1: and how hypocritical is the NBA when they refused to

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Speaker 1: go to an All Star game. I have the Ulstar

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Speaker 1: game in Charlotte because of the transgender bathrooms? Do they

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Speaker 1: have any credibility anymore? So? I think the next ory

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Speaker 1: just depends on what's going to unfold. We already have

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Speaker 1: fans wearing free Hong Kong shirts that have been you know,

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Speaker 1: confiscated in Philadelphia and last night in Washington, d c. Um,

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Speaker 1: what will be the policy there? What happens if a

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Speaker 1: player where's free Hong Kong and his warm ups? Um,

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Speaker 1: there's there's This is probably the most complex. It's not

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Speaker 1: JFK getting assassinated and people Roselle having to make the decision.

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Speaker 1: It's not Donald Sterling saying racist things in Adam Silver

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Speaker 1: taking the team away from him. This is the most

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Speaker 1: complex situation that a sports league has ever in the

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Speaker 1: history of sports leagues had to deal with. It's really

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Speaker 1: this is so what I started the pod by saying

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Speaker 1: is like, look, I understand that I just again I

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Speaker 1: agree with you on the Darryl Moore thing, the the

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Speaker 1: far reaching I'm sure you had no no thought of

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Speaker 1: the far reaching ramifications of it, but like, look, you

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Speaker 1: don't know. This is like when people now talk about impeachment,

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Speaker 1: they even know the im process of impeachment. What I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can be impeached and still be president United States?

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Speaker 1: Right like that, like didn't even know what impeachment means.

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Speaker 1: They know far less about Chinese politics, nor should their

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Speaker 1: opinion really matter. It's not our not our country. Now

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Speaker 1: does that make us hypocritical? Like yeah, and could Darryl

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Speaker 1: Mori have said, like, hey, it's hypocritical to be playing

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Speaker 1: in China when we didn't play in Charlotte. Maybe that

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Speaker 1: goes over differently, But I do think that it's one

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Speaker 1: of those things that won't play well on social media.

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Speaker 1: But in the real world, you can't be talking about

425
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 1: these things because it's not our country and it's not

426
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: our it's not our fight, and I don't think people

427
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: have context as to how it really works. I mean,

428
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: I went to Vietnam and I was given a government

429
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: minder to follow me around while I was supporting on Nike.

430
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: And at one point we left in the middle of

431
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: the night without the government minder and they found this

432
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: out and they were going to hold us and hold

433
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: our capes and we had to get an NBC negotiation

434
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: team in there. Having that's that's communism. And you know,

435
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 1: I was in the Olympics uh in two thousand eight

436
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: in Beijing. Old NBC people are standing on a stanchion

437
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: and they have a quore unquote security guard who's watching us.

438
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: And when I asked the guy trying to make conversation,

439
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: what's what's your name? He says Gary within an accent,

440
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 1: as if he's from New Jersey, you know, listening to

441
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: us for sure and reporting back. So knowing that and

442
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: being skeptical and understanding that. I think most of America

443
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: has been told how China works, but they haven't really

444
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: seen it in practice. Until you see it in practice,

445
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: that that's when you realize what we're up against here.

446
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: Darren you're the best. I love how hard you work.

447
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: I love that you you you you laugh off most

448
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: people ship that they give you on social media, and

449
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: I love catching up with you. But you are an

450
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: actually gem for this story. Thanks for joining us, Thanks Doud.

451
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: Let's dig in here on a couple of these questions

452
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: that we pulled off of Twitter for the All Ball podcast.

453
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: This one comes from at le Roy's underscore bar, How Doug,

454
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: how do you see Juwan Howard doing at u M

455
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: at being University of Michigan. Um. Look, I think ultimately

456
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: he'll do fine. Do I think he's the tactician the

457
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: John Bee line. Not initially, but he can help you

458
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: in terms of recruiting, and he inherits the team that

459
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: though they lost uh egg Bras Dakis and Jordan Pool

460
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: and Charles Matthews, they were built around Xavier Simpson and

461
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: John Teska. You get the best defensive center and defensive

462
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: point guard in the Big ten that that just makes

463
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: you look like a better coach. You inherit a point guard,

464
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: You inherit two guys that will help your your culture defensively.

465
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 1: I think you'll be pretty good. I really do, UM,

466
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: and I think you wanna know his ball. I don't

467
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: think this the It's funny. I've I've used this expression,

468
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,719
Speaker 1: and you guys can steal this if you'd like. If

469
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: it was rocket science, that would buy rockets. Scientists coaching

470
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: this thing, but it's not. It's ball, which one knows it?

471
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: Smart guy. I've been around a lot of basketball coach

472
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: in the NBA. You know, does he have to adjust

473
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: to the college game, Sure, but he's put together a

474
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: good staff. He inherits a tremendous point guard and two

475
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: tremendous defensive players. Do I think they will be as

476
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: successful um as John Beeline's team has been. That's an

477
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: incredible thing to live up to. No, probably not consistently.

478
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: But like bee lines deal was, they had good players

479
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: that they made look even better. And I think that's

480
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: why Belon's players haven't really been good pros. It's because

481
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: they look so much better playing for him, Whereas I

482
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: think Juan's players Juan will probably have better at some

483
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: some better athletic talent, but I don't know if they'll

484
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: look as good because you know, be Line was such

485
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: an incredible coach. Um they lost their defensive coordinator, obviously,

486
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: they lost a bunch of the program. They lost a

487
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: bunch of personnel and you got his Zoe and his

488
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: team loaded up. But I think you wanta how to

489
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: will do fine? Will you do great and get to

490
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: the Final four with average talent at times? No, But

491
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean he can't get to a final four

492
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: because they'll have probably slightly better town recruiting. Although we'll see.

493
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: We'll see how college basketballs evolving so much when they

494
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: change the rules and the one and dunes can go

495
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: straight out? What does that mean for a program like

496
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: Michigan who wasn't getting one and dones for the most part,

497
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: wasn't getting super highly touted guys, But now they would

498
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: be we assumed chasing after those guys. But can you

499
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: might make the right decisions if you don't get them.

500
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. I Michigan was such a good program previously.

501
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: I think the expectations of living up to that those

502
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: type of outcome is a little much. I think he'll

503
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: do fine, and I think having Simpson having tes key

504
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: initially will really help him in his integration year one.

505
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: This from at field of field of sixty eight freak

506
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: excluding Michigan State, UH which Big Ten team is most

507
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: likely to go deep into March and April. Huh, really

508
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: good question. Um. Well, look, I think if you were

509
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: to do tears for the Big ten, I think you

510
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: put in Michigan State kind of alone by themselves. Then

511
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: you have a tier of probably Ohio State, Maryland. Um,

512
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: I think you put Iowa in there, and maybe Perdue. Gosh,

513
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, it's they're gonna look so

514
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: different this year. I'm losing so much, losing all that scoring. Um. Granted,

515
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: they may be, they continually find a way to kind

516
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: of remake themselves. Um, but let's let's let's take a

517
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: look kind of at at Ohio State. You know, Ohio

518
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: State's a team. They lose a J. Jackson, they lose

519
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: Kshan kish On Woods, but the guy Caleb Weston back,

520
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,479
Speaker 1: Andre Weston back, Luther Mohammed, Uh, Kyle Young, Musa Jollo

521
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: and Dwayne Washington. And you add in C. J. Walker

522
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: who comes over from Florida stay he's really good player.

523
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: UM and and DJ Carton, Lonzo Gaffney, E J. Liddell.

524
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: Look I I look at I look at that team,

525
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: and huh, you know last year they were twenty five

526
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: and nine. Chris Holpman can really quoach. They were second

527
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: last year in the Big Ten, and of course that

528
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: was after they lost spada Ks Diap And this is

529
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: two years with Holtman and two straight n c A tournaments.

530
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: It's like automatically kind of turned things around. Um Caleb Wesson,

531
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it's gonna depend upon his conditioning. I

532
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: would say another year and he'll only be He'll only

533
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: be better, and if he can stay out of foul trouble,

534
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: he's a ridiculous weapon. And then I think he had

535
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: the talented trio freshman with C. J. Walker, and you

536
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: look at how Weston continues to expand his game. I know,

537
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: I think they'll be really good. So Ohio State would

538
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: probably be my pick for a team that I believe

539
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: could make the deepest run. Um I do like Maryland

540
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: a lot, cowing back at point guard, sticks um More

541
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: Cell who's tremendous defensively, Wiggins Ayala. That's a good basketball team.

542
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: And Chill mary All is not Bruno Fernando, but he

543
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: should be able to he should be able to defend

544
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: the rim and to be some sort of nuisance. The

545
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: bigger question for Big Ten teams is gonna be like, alright,

546
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: like let's look at Perdue. You lose Grady Effort, Ryan Klein,

547
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: Carson Netward. Ryan Klein could make shots and then turn

548
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: over Grady eiffort Um though he got athletically overmatched. Sometimes

549
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: playing the four did allow them to play small ball.

550
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: Then Carson Edwards is a walking bucket. You get everything

551
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: else back. You add in a big time recruiting class

552
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: and Jahad Proctor Perdue will be interesting. I think Perdue

553
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: in Iowa are the two teams that I thinking, and

554
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: maybe Michigan can get into that second tier. So there's

555
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: kind of your Big ten preview view. All right, last

556
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: last question here via the Twitter machine at the Grizzly

557
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: Man one. How good will the Lebron James Anthony Davis

558
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: pick and roll? But can it be effective against high

559
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: level teams in moments that matter? Do they have this

560
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: shooting to rely on? I hope it's a good question.

561
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: That's from grizzly Man one. That's a good question. Um.

562
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: I would say this Lebron is, and having seen them

563
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: only limited in practices and in you know, the exhibition

564
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: game in a Golden State, I do think Lebron wants

565
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: to really facilitate. And that's that kind of is the

566
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: relationship with Magic Johnson like he wants to be he

567
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: wants to set people up, he wants to take it

568
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: easy in the regular season, make everybody look better, and

569
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: so far, so good. I think Anthony Davis is a

570
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: big time player. Is he a big time player off

571
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: the pick and roll? I don't know. I mean, that's obviously.

572
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: I don't think they're gonna have a traditional pick and

573
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: roll nearly as much one because Lebron's not those He's

574
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: a very good passer. He's not a traditional pick and

575
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: roll passer per se. He likes to come off the

576
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: pick and roll and get going downhill and he's not

577
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: a come out to pick and roll split the thing,

578
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: you know, snake it. He doesn't have all the point

579
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: guard tricks. Can you shoot the three when you go under, Yes,

580
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: but he always has to do that thing where he

581
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 1: dribbles once with his right hand and then steps back

582
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: to his left and that kind of weird three that

583
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: he shoots. So I think it can be effective in

584
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: creating mispatches. I just don't think it it's a it's

585
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: a true natural pick and roll because you don't have

586
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: true natural pick and roll players. Do they have enough

587
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 1: shooting that's a huge question. Do they have enough defense,

588
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: that's a huge question. Do they have enough guys that

589
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: can create shots for others That's a huge question. And remember,

590
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: right now they're playing without Kyle Kuzma. How is the

591
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: rotation gonna look like? All these things are interesting. I

592
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: do think that adding a guy in Anthony Davis that

593
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: plays both ends um and a guy that I would

594
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: guess very early on the season wants to prove not

595
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: just to the league but to Lebron that he was

596
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: worth all of the weight and all the trading and

597
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: all the nonsense. I think you'll get a lot of

598
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis. My fears with the Lakers are age age

599
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: leads the more injuries. My fear with the Lakers are

600
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: how many guys they have that can actually dribble and

601
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: make place for others. Really, it's Lebron and it's Anthony Davis,

602
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: and both those guys are kind of is so guys

603
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: more than move the ball on offense guys, And then

604
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: you know, I think my my fear is also that, um,

605
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 1: they're really big, and I'm not sure if big necessarily

606
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 1: wins Like I I do think length wins and but

607
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: they're not long athletic defenders. They're just kind of all

608
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: big like cou'ses uh Un your size four right when

609
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: he's at his best, and Lebron is a point power forward,

610
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: and Anthony Davis is a four or five like Danny

611
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: Green is just to catch you shoot. They just don't

612
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: have a lot of guards, and I think that hurts

613
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: you in terms of defending guards, and I think that

614
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,959
Speaker 1: hurtsing in terms of UM career making, creating shots for others,

615
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: breaking down a defense, making the help come to you.

616
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 1: But I do think they've looked good so far this year,

617
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: and I think they look far more cohesive and connected

618
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: than they look last year. All right, that's it for

619
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 1: the All Ball Podcast. UM already gonna announce my special

620
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: guest next week. You won't want to miss it. We

621
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 1: grew up playing uh sort of on the same team.

622
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: He's a little bit younger than me, and kind of

623
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: against each other in high school. We became radio rivals

624
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: and college rivals, and now we're friends. It's Eric Chenowith

625
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: from All American Center at Kansas. How can somebody seven

626
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: foot skilled good basketball player plays at cans us never

627
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: play an NBA game, I'll ask him. Plus, you can

628
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 1: listen to the Doug Gottlieve Show weekdays three to six

629
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: Eastern twelve to three Pacific, and of course you can

630
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: download the I Heart Radio app or Fox Sports Trader

631
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: dot com or just follow me on Twitter, on Facebook, whatever,

632
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: and will always give you the good information in the meantime.

633
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to download,

634
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: to subscribe, and to rate. Hell a friend about us.

635
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm Doug Gottlieb in This is All Ball