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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, Chuck here, it's May ninth, twenty seventeen, and

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Speaker 1: podcast time. I know it's really twenty twenty five, but

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Speaker 1: we're going all the way back to May of twenty

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Speaker 1: seventeen to talk about itching. Oh boy, just seeing that

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Speaker 1: title probably makes you itch, and that's one of the

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Speaker 1: deals with itching, if I remember correctly. So I hope

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Speaker 1: you dig it, and I hope you're not too itchy

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Speaker 1: right now.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's

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Speaker 3: Charles W Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry Rowland. So this

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Speaker 3: is Stuff you Should Know Scratching Edition.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is one of many.

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Speaker 3: You remember when we did Yawning. Yeah, well, that's the

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Speaker 3: only one I can think of where just researching something

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Speaker 3: makes you do the thing researching. This definitely happened with

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Speaker 3: this one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well we ran across that and poison ivy and

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Speaker 1: scabies for sure, Oh yeah, and talked about some of

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Speaker 1: this stuff, but I think itch, we had an itch

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Speaker 1: we needed to scratch. Yeah, with this particular topic.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad. I've been wanting to do this one

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Speaker 3: for a while.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you did a video about this, right, Yes, a

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Speaker 1: short video.

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Speaker 3: No, it was three four hours long. Okay, if I

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Speaker 3: remember correctly, Does.

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Speaker 1: That mean we have to do this? Do I have

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Speaker 1: to be here for the next four hours?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we have to just play the whole thing and

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Speaker 3: then we'll talk about it for an hour.

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Speaker 1: And it was good.

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Speaker 3: Okay. I think it was a brain stuff video, wasn't it. Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I watched did it scratch your itch?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I watched it yesterday.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, nice work, thank you very much. You're just

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Speaker 3: like now we finally arrived and what I was after compliment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it was great, thanks man.

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Speaker 3: So I guess the point of all that is to say,

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Speaker 3: you guys are going you're going right, my videos are

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Speaker 3: the best that you're going to scratch, You're going to

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Speaker 3: feel an itch, which is one of the great mysteries

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Speaker 3: of itches. It turns out we only very very recently

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Speaker 3: have started to get a handle on what itches are. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and there's still plenty of mysteries left to it, like,

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Speaker 3: for example, it's bizarre and there's really no evolutionary reason

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Speaker 3: as far as anyone can tell why. Just hearing about

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Speaker 3: itches or seeing someone else scratch can make you itch. Right,

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Speaker 3: That's that's odd. That's that's weird.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing the video of an ant crawling up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: an arm will make you itch.

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Speaker 3: It will. But I mean think about it. If somebody

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Speaker 3: is sitting there, you see a video of some schmo

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Speaker 3: who's got his hand like near an oven, and he

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Speaker 3: pulls it away really quick. It doesn't hurt your hand,

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Speaker 3: It doesn't make you feel like your hand is burned.

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Speaker 3: This doesn't happen.

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Speaker 1: I don't even think that would excite mirror Neron's like

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Speaker 1: a leg break with Now.

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Speaker 3: You're just like, what a stupid idiot, that's what it excites. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I hope that guy's hands just burns clean off. That's

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Speaker 3: what I think, right right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, you sourced a couple of well we've had

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Speaker 1: our own article on how stuffworks dot com. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you also sent this great New Yorker article written by

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Speaker 1: doctor A.

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Speaker 3: Tool Gowande, one of the best names in writing today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that may be my new hotel name.

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Speaker 3: Well, you may be thronged by science right science fans,

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Speaker 3: because that guy's pretty pretty well known.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I've never used to alias at a hotel. That's dumb,

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Speaker 1: and I don't even know if you can, can you,

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Speaker 1: I guess if you're a big shot you can.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you have to be like, I'm not Brad

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Speaker 3: Pitt on a tool Goanda, right.

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Speaker 1: H But the we'll get to some of the more

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Speaker 1: interesting aspects of that article later, specifically a very specific

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Speaker 1: patient that's quite distressing.

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Speaker 3: So calm down for now, a tool's mom. But we'll

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Speaker 3: get to it eventually.

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Speaker 1: He did include a couple of neat historical tidbits, like

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Speaker 1: in sixteen sixty there was in Germans are all over

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Speaker 1: this thing for some reason. Yeah, you know, researchers that

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Speaker 1: they're they're all German.

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Speaker 3: They had the itch to explain the itch.

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Speaker 1: I guess, so yeah, the itch.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: But there was a physician in sixteen sixty name Samuel Hoffenreffer.

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Speaker 1: Actually that's my new hotel name. Yeah, that's a good one.

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Speaker 1: Uh he kind of well, he defined it by saying,

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Speaker 1: an itch is an unpleasant sensation that provokes the desire

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Speaker 1: to scratch. Pretty simple, yeah, but right on the money

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 3: And actually it's so it's so on the money that

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Speaker 3: anywhere you look in the medical literature, whenever they define

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Speaker 3: itch word for word, that's the definition they use. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: although poor Hoff and Refer doesn't get credit for it

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Speaker 3: all the time. But that's the one. The only expansion

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Speaker 3: of that that I've seen is that can occur anywhere

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Speaker 3: on the body, which apparently is true.

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Speaker 1: I think hoff and Reffer he felt that was implied.

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Speaker 3: Right, And it's like it goes without saying. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: mean I'm scratching right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know if I just noticed more, because

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Speaker 1: as I was doing it, I was thinking, well, now

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Speaker 1: I'm scratching. I thought, do I always scratch this much

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Speaker 1: or itch this much?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I hadn't thought about that. I'm pretty sure that

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Speaker 3: I was. I don't think I scratched as much as

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Do you raise a really good question.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we can get an intern to follow us around

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Speaker 1: just record our scratching, right.

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Speaker 3: I'm surprised that that's not already a TV show. Frankly,

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Speaker 3: Josh and Chuck scratch just being followed around.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, you know, no one wants to see that.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's probably why it's not you're scratching. See, that's

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Speaker 3: what I'm saying. I don't think I scratched this much.

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Speaker 1: I don't notice it all right, Moving on to Dante's Inferno.

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Speaker 1: It was in Dante's Inferno, the burning age of fierce

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Speaker 1: itching that nothing could relieve is how falsifiers were punished.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, do you know what a falsifier is?

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Speaker 1: Us?

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Speaker 3: I no, really, Like, isn't that that somebody who like

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Speaker 3: bears false witness or somebody who falsifies a document or.

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Speaker 1: Is it just a fancy name for liar?

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Speaker 3: Maybe?

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Speaker 1: Oh? I thought you were gonna tell me you were

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Speaker 1: just wondering.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, I don't know what Dante meant, but

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Speaker 1: they're they're bad people.

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Speaker 3: Sure, apparently there's a special place in health for him literally,

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Speaker 3: well I guess actually not literally figuratively sure, literally.

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Speaker 1: Oh very nice. So itching scientifically is known as pururitis

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Speaker 1: p r U R I T I S. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: one of those tough to pronounce things for me at least,

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Speaker 1: and for well. Actually, they still believe that the evolution

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Speaker 1: of the itch was to help humans survive, basically because

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Speaker 1: so many things that can kill you and nature or

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Speaker 1: things like mosquitoes or flies or spiders or fleas. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that can have like malaria or the plague or any

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Speaker 1: number of diseases attached to their tiny little insect bodies. Right. So, hey, human,

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Speaker 1: you've got a mosquito on your neck that could kill you.

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Speaker 1: You might want to slap it or scratch.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's still, as far as I know, the

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Speaker 3: evolutionary hypothesis for why we experience itching. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 3: not just us either.

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Speaker 1: Well you're scratching like crazy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's found throughout the animal kingdom, from us to

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Speaker 3: apparently fish have shown scratching behavior. Yeah, that's crazy fruit flies.

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Speaker 1: How's a fish scratch? You might ask?

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Speaker 3: It rubs up against rocks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of cute.

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Speaker 3: It is a little cute.

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Speaker 1: It's like I remember my dad did like the uh

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Speaker 1: who was the Barren Jungle book? Was that blue?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 1: He would do the ballue or he would get up

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Speaker 1: against a tree or yeah, and then I did it

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Speaker 1: probably because of that. I'm sure that's where I got

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Speaker 1: it and realized that it works. And I still do

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Speaker 1: it every now and then. Oh yeah, yeah, it look

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Speaker 1: kind of silly. But do you sing while you do it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Bare necessities, that's still my favorite.

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Speaker 3: What else are you going to sing? Like Mambo number five?

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna start doing that. Actually, you'd be like, think

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Speaker 1: something's wrong with Chuck.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, like you said, though, it was up until almost

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Speaker 1: well was it nineteen eighty seven, the mid to late eighties. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that another German h O handworker and his gang, sure

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Speaker 1: of toughs. They started to do actual like research about it.

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Speaker 1: They were puzzled and wanted to solve.

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Speaker 3: It, right, because up to this point, up to actually

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty seven, everyone thought that an itch was just

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Speaker 3: a low grade pain stimulus.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess happy with that.

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Speaker 3: That's just what they thought it was. And hand worker said,

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Speaker 3: you know what, let's let's find out if this is

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Speaker 3: actually true. I'm tired of sitting around just assuming this

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Speaker 3: is fine. I'm a hand worker. And he got to

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Speaker 3: work her with his hands, testing this, right, So what

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Speaker 3: he knows, like Jonathan Strickland level, what he did was

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Speaker 3: this is just awful. He introduced using like electrical stimulation.

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Speaker 3: I guess he introduced histamine to skin cells, right. And

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Speaker 3: histamine is a natural I don't know if it's a protein,

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Speaker 3: but it's it's a natural, natural chemical, right that the

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Speaker 3: body releases in response to certain stimuli, say, for example,

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Speaker 3: like a mosquito bite or something. And it triggers the

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Speaker 3: inflammation and immune response in that area. Right, So histamine

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Speaker 3: is associated with itch and it had been for a

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Speaker 3: very long time. So this I was using an electrical

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Speaker 3: stimulation to introduce histamine and increasing amounts in these poor

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Speaker 3: study participants, and it went from barely noticeable to this

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Speaker 3: is a quote, the maximum imaginable itch. And they never

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Speaker 3: felt paint.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like even though they ramped it up to eleven,

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Speaker 1: no one ever said like, holy crap, that hurts.

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Speaker 3: They said, please, please, fore love God stop, let me

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Speaker 3: out of this. And hand Wurker just cackled and cackled, right,

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Speaker 3: and these men with like black leather gloves were holding

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Speaker 3: the participants down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they said, this is not worth the five Deutsche

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Speaker 1: marks that I'm getting for this lousy study.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's nice man, that's this would have been pre

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Speaker 3: euro I think, oh yeah, even though the EU was around,

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Speaker 3: I don't think the euro was around in eighty seven

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Speaker 3: right now, No, no, because the nineties I traveled.

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Speaker 1: I traveled to Europe in nineteen ninety seven and there

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Speaker 1: was I was still on all that weird money.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it was a while after that. So now scientists,

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Speaker 1: I think this sort of introduced an itch to the

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Speaker 1: scientific community because after hundreds and hundreds of years, Hanvoka

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Speaker 1: sort of disrupted the thought process of the itch and

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Speaker 1: the scratch, and all of a sudden, scientists were like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe we should start looking into this, Maybe we can

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Speaker 1: actually isolate the nerve and figure this thing out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because I mean if it's not, if it's not

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Speaker 3: just a low level pain sensation, then that means it's

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Speaker 3: its own thing. And if it's its own thing, it

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Speaker 3: probably has its own system and we need to know

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Speaker 3: more about it. So they they got to study in it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah what ma I wonder if all of this was

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Speaker 1: under the notion that they were trying to cure itching.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, because from what I was reading and

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Speaker 3: all of this was pretty recent stuff. Yeah, there's a

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Speaker 3: real un medical need in dealing and addressing like chronic itch. Sure,

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Speaker 3: because you know, most people who go through life just

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Speaker 3: experiencing itch under normal circumstances. Right, Let's say you or me,

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Speaker 3: we're like an itch. Yeah, they suck for a second

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Speaker 3: and then it goes away. Imagine it not going away ever,

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Speaker 3: whether you're asleep or awake, or swimming or an outer

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Speaker 3: space or doing whatever you're itching constantly. Supposedly it has

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Speaker 3: as much of a pronounced effect on a patient's life

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Speaker 3: as chronic pain does. It's constant, persistent, and agonizing, and

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Speaker 3: it's not being met or treated because it's not understood.

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Speaker 3: So they're just now starting to get into pain or

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Speaker 3: itch research. I saw somebody put it where pain research

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Speaker 3: was about twenty years ago, So it's starting to really

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Speaker 3: heat up, but we're still just starting to understand it.

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Speaker 3: So I would think that they weren't looking to cure it.

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Speaker 3: I think it was just pointed out that there was

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Speaker 3: a whole branch of neuroscience that was right totally not understood,

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Speaker 3: So get to work neurologists.

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Speaker 1: I wonder I never really thought about it until just now,

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Speaker 1: But I wonder what happens when a performer or somebody

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Speaker 1: like that is in the public eye or on TV

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Speaker 1: or on stage or like the president giving an address,

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Speaker 1: Like what what what did they do if they have

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Speaker 1: poison ivy or some other kind of contact dermatitis? Like

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Speaker 1: have you ever thought about that? Like what if Lynn

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Speaker 1: Mail went Manuel Miranda has like a really bad case

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Speaker 1: of POY. I guess they can get an understudy in

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Speaker 1: that case, sure, but you can't have an understudy as

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Speaker 1: president no, which is too bad.

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Speaker 3: You just go out there with your hands bandaged up,

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Speaker 3: just holding them up, like how do you fight that

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Speaker 3: poison ivy on camera?

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Speaker 1: Or like a news anchor when they're just like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I'm dying. I don't know. I guess a

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Speaker 1: news anchor can tape things, but I'm talking about live.

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Speaker 1: What does Tom Petty do?

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Speaker 3: For God's sakes, Tom Petty and bears it. He had

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Speaker 3: a hard scrubble childhood prepared him for that.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to see him tomorrow night. Oh yeah, waiting

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Speaker 1: for coffee. He's not performing anyway. I was just curious

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Speaker 1: about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's a good question.

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Speaker 1: Thanks.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember when Costas had red eye at the Olympics.

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Speaker 3: I was so dedicated to being the commentator, the anchor

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Speaker 3: for the Olympics. They finally were like, you have to stop. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: no one can look.

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Speaker 1: At you, people writing and you're disgusting them. One thing

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Speaker 1: that made me think of that is I had recently.

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Speaker 1: You can still kind of see it on my forearm,

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Speaker 1: the scars. But I did a cement job. I was

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Speaker 1: building this fence, putting in a gate at my house

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Speaker 1: and Scotty, you know, Scotty and I built huh, Scotty Pippin.

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Speaker 1: He and I built this thing together. And we sank

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Speaker 1: these huge posts for this gate. And I didn't know

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Speaker 1: that cement could cause contact dermatitis or even burns. Never

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Speaker 1: knew this. Yeah, and we were it was kind of

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Speaker 1: a tight spot and we couldn't get shovels in there

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Speaker 1: in the hole, so we were literally mixing the stuff

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Speaker 1: like up to our elbows with our arms, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, this kind of feels good. I even said, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like oatmeal or something. And then two days

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Speaker 1: later my right arm was just covered in the nastiest

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Speaker 1: dermatitis I've ever seen, and then he got it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's still like kind of hanging around. So I went

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Speaker 1: and got a prescription for steroids, which made me a

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Speaker 1: little crazy for a week and a half.

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Speaker 3: You trashed the gate and have to start over.

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Speaker 1: No, I think I was probably not the best husband

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Speaker 1: though over that time period. Judging from Emily saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: you're real a hole. Get off the steroids, gotcha, get

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Speaker 1: off the juice, I was like, shut up, watch me

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Speaker 1: hit this homer. So long story short, I experienced this

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Speaker 1: and it was awful. And I can't imagine like shooting

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Speaker 1: the TV show or something, or like doing anything or

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Speaker 1: performing live, like I would have to address it because

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Speaker 1: I would scratch and smack. It was what I usually do.

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Speaker 3: That's how you're supposed to do, not scratch. I guess

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Speaker 3: we'll just cut to the chase here. This is why

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Speaker 3: everyone's listening. How do you scratch a niche? Correctly? You

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Speaker 3: rub it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I didn't do I did you know?

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Speaker 3: It?

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Speaker 1: Really did? It was the we have a handheld implement

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Speaker 1: in the shower along with the regular shower head and

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Speaker 1: put that sucker on the tightest, hardest, most penetrating flow

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Speaker 1: and just put that hot water on it. Man, And

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Speaker 1: that was like, I think I spent half my days

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Speaker 1: in the shower over that week and a half.

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Speaker 3: Are you biting down like a broomstick while you're doing that?

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Speaker 1: Now? It felt so good, man. I was just like

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Speaker 1: I couldn't get enough of it.

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Speaker 3: Huh.

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Speaker 1: And then the court zone and all that jump too.

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Speaker 3: So we'll we'll talk about this because this you're raising

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Speaker 3: some great points here.

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Speaker 1: Well I just kind of ruined the spoiler.

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Speaker 3: No, No, this is good stuff. We're going to analyze

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Speaker 3: what was going on with your arm after this break?

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Speaker 2: How about that sounds good?

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Speaker 3: So, Chuck, you had contact dermatitis.

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Speaker 1: Right, I thought it was poison ivy because that area

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Speaker 1: has some poison ivy.

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Speaker 3: Huh.

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Speaker 1: But each of us, Scotty and I had it just

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Speaker 1: on the arm that we sunk in cement, right, And

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Speaker 1: then we researched and found out that could happen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so Lesson learned on that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So what happened was you like something in the cement

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Speaker 3: and I'm not sure what it was reacted chemically with

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Speaker 3: the mast cells in your skin. Yeah, and histamine was released,

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Speaker 3: right apparently, And so the histamine sent a signal through

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Speaker 3: specialized nerve cells called sea fibers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which sea fibers aren't just limited to itching. I

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Speaker 1: think only about five percent handle that, and right, most

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Speaker 1: of the rest are for pain.

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Speaker 3: Right, right, So they use the same type of neural

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Speaker 3: pathway as pain, but for itch it's it's basically it's

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Speaker 3: just like, no, these these are just for itches only. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And it sent a signal through your spinal column, and

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Speaker 3: in your spinal column, it released a neurotransmitter called gastrin,

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Speaker 3: releasing peptide receptor, and so at the skin, the histamine

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Speaker 3: would have released a neurotransmitter called.

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Speaker 1: What natur uretic polypeptide B.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So that says itch signal coming your way along

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Speaker 3: those sea fibers, yes, okay, uh, it makes it to

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Speaker 3: the spinal column, and I guess in about two and

356
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Speaker 3: seven they found that there's another neurotransmitter in the spine

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Speaker 3: that I guess accepts the the NPPB the invitation and

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Speaker 3: says I'm going to transfer this along up to the brain.

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Speaker 3: That's gastrin releasing peptide receptor that shoots up to the

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Speaker 3: brain and it starts this cascade of activity. Right Because

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Speaker 3: when they, like after handworker said, hey, you know, itching

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Speaker 3: is its own thing. These other researchers went to town

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Speaker 3: and traced and figured out that there were specific, specific

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Speaker 3: types of itch receptors that were dedicated just to itches.

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Speaker 1: Right, more Germans, more Germans, a couple.

366
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Speaker 3: Of Swedes, but mostly Germans for good measure. Yeah, And

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Speaker 3: what they found eventually from tracing this pathway, they were

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Speaker 3: able to follow it into the wonder machine and apparently

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Speaker 3: they made some people itch and would not let them

370
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Speaker 3: scratch it. And then They had them lay down in

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Speaker 3: an MRI and they took a brain scan and they

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Speaker 3: found that there's this whole galaxy of stuff going on

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Speaker 3: in your brain that combined is the itch sensation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It was pretty interesting too. There's a signature pattern

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Speaker 1: in the brain when you get an itch, and a

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Speaker 1: few specific areas light up. One is a cortex, and

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Speaker 1: it all makes sense when you put it together. The

378
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Speaker 1: cortex in this case just sort of geo locates where

379
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 1: on your body you're getting that sensation, so that helps.

380
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,400
Speaker 1: It's like left elbow, yeah, or in my case, from

381
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Speaker 1: right elbow to wrist, right, and then a little bit

382
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Speaker 1: in other places, but not too bad that that was

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Speaker 1: the main area.

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Speaker 3: Is this your cortex still saying this, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's very complex conversation going on. And then the region

386
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 1: I thought this was interesting, the region that government's governments

387
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 1: that governs emotional response. So basically, this is your brain

388
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Speaker 1: saying like, I don't like this, this makes me feel bad.

389
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the worst thing ever do something.

390
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,119
Speaker 1: And then finally in the limbic and motor areas, and

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Speaker 1: I thought this was the most interesting. Those areas process

392
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 1: irresistible urges, the same ones that say I want to

393
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Speaker 1: smoke crack or I want to eat too much cake,

394
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Speaker 1: says you have an itch that is unbearable and you

395
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Speaker 1: need to scratch it.

396
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Speaker 3: Right, and maybe go smoke some crack and eat some

397
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Speaker 3: cake while you're at.

398
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Speaker 1: It because that'll help. So I just I don't know.

399
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Speaker 1: I thought that was all very super interesting when you

400
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 1: combine that pattern.

401
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the that's an itch, and then then followed

402
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 3: by the irresistible urge to scratch it, which apparently research

403
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 3: has shown those two do not happen independently. They're they're

404
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 3: part of a cycle. Yes, there's something called the itch

405
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 3: scratch cycle, right, and so you have an irresistible urge

406
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 3: to scratch the itch. It's it's weird if you think

407
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 3: about it. Like, on the one hand, it makes sense

408
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 3: where you you sense that there's a really hot heat

409
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Speaker 3: source that your hand is really close to, so you

410
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Speaker 3: have an irresistible urge to pull it back, but it

411
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 3: doesn't feel like an urge. It almost feels like an

412
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Speaker 3: involuntary reflex. Yeah, scratch is almost like I'm going to

413
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Speaker 3: kill this itch. I can't wait to scratch it, Like

414
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 3: you're almost exacting revenge on the itch for itching you, right,

415
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 3: So it scratches. It's an irresistible urge where it's like

416
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 3: pulling your hand back from a hot hot source or something,

417
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 3: is like an involuntary reflex. It just feels different, like

418
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Speaker 3: a scratches its own thing.

419
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Speaker 1: Well it is, you know. They kind of found that

420
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: out and go on day. Doctor Gowande pointed out something

421
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 1: interesting too that I never thought about, is that you

422
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 1: can have like that short collar rubs against your neck

423
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 1: all day and you might never notice it. But if

424
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 1: there's like one little string that's just poking one little area,

425
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: that might trigger an itch.

426
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 3: Right, and so you would think that, you know, its

427
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 3: receptors are super finely tuned, and they covered just this

428
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 3: one tiny like that's what it would say micron of

429
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 3: skin as a matter of fact. No, apparently an itch

430
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 3: receptor can sense itch stimuli like three inches away from it.

431
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: That's crazy.

432
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, So they're really sensitive.

433
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, whereas pain receptors are that specific down to like

434
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, millimeters.

435
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

436
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: And the other thing they found out too is that

437
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 1: not only can they sense it from a few inches away,

438
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 1: but it's a very slow acting thing, which as opposed

439
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: to like heat on the hand, like a candle on

440
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 1: your hand almost said candle in the wind. Uh, that's

441
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 1: super fast. But that that explains why an itch like

442
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: it's kind of slow to come and then slow to

443
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: resolve by scratching. Yeah, it's not like you scratch it,

444
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, it's all better now. Yeah, it helps

445
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: a little bit.

446
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 3: So, so the itching is a it's a good strategy.

447
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 3: If you think about, say you're you're there's a mosquito

448
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 3: on you and that's what's making you itch. When you

449
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 3: go to scratch it, you're getting rid of the mosquito,

450
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,199
Speaker 3: maybe even smushed it or something like that. The problems

451
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 3: taken care of the issue is is that that itch

452
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 3: scratch cycle eventually becomes a vicious cycle because when you scratch,

453
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 3: this is what they think is going on. This is

454
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 3: another mystery with itches. We don't understand how scratching alleviates

455
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 3: an itch, right, or why we scratch really right? What

456
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 3: they think the current hypothesis is that when you scratch

457
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 3: an itch, you're stimulating other receptors in the area that

458
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 3: aren't itch receptors.

459
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I got that, but what does that do

460
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: to sort of like say, hey, body, don't worry about

461
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: that for a minute, I think. So a pain receptor

462
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: is now.

463
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 3: Active, right exactly, it's sending feedback to the brain saying

464
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 3: it's being taken care of. You can settle down with

465
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 3: the itch, gotcha, right. I think the problem is that

466
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 3: neurologically or neurochemically, when you scratch an itch, you're activating

467
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 3: those pain receptors in the area pain pressure, that kind

468
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,959
Speaker 3: of thing. You're causing serotonin to be released, right, natural

469
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 3: pain reliever, right, yeah, or at least mood enhancer. And

470
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 3: what they found is that serotonin, among other neurochemicals, actually

471
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 3: exacerbates the itch sensation. So your itch not only comes back,

472
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 3: it gets worse. So you go to scratch it again,

473
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 3: and then the same thing happens over and over again.

474
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 3: That's the itch scratch cycle, which it's not the best

475
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 3: cycle around. No, you can make a better cycles.

476
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: Not a bad band name. Yeah, it's okay, a little

477
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: too cute.

478
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 3: Maybe progue folk progue.

479
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: They well, they'd have to be German probably.

480
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 3: German folk progue. Okay.

481
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: Another interesting thing they learned too, is that I guess

482
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: we're kind of jumping around, but who cares. Right, if

483
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: you scratch, you don't have to scratch the point of

484
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 1: the itch to relieve it, apparently, right, Like if you

485
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: have had that itch on my right forearm and I

486
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: could scratch, maybe then you have to be the left forearm,

487
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: so it's not like you have to mirror it. But

488
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: I could scratch like my neck and apparently that might

489
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: help relieve it.

490
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. I tried it. It didn't work for me. No, No,

491
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 3: But I think the reason why there's that's it's possible

492
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 3: that it could have that effect is supposedly scratching also

493
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 3: activates like your pleasure center.

494
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, you bet it does.

495
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 3: But there's different different places where you're scratching on your

496
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 3: body have different amounts of pleasure associated with them. Did

497
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 3: you know that? I mean, I guess, I guess so.

498
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: But yeah, interesting, Yeah, but I mean think about it.

499
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 3: It's like if you scratch your scratch your like your clavicle,

500
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 3: who cares, it's nothing, right, But then you scratch like

501
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 3: your head right above and behind your ear, it's great.

502
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: Well, and they I think they did find that, like

503
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: you're back in your ankles supposedly or some of the

504
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: most rewarding places to scratch exactly. And I I don't know,

505
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: I've never really thought about the ankles. But my mom

506
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: would give me backscratches when I was a kid. That's nice,

507
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: and it was always like one of my favorite things ever. Sure,

508
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: and so I don't get those anymore now that I'm

509
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 1: a grown up because that's gross. You know, my mom

510
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: scratched my back, right, I'm forty six years old, lay down,

511
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was like I think I preferred to

512
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: backscratch to a back rub even oh yeah, when I

513
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: was younger. But now, you know, massage is probably way better. Sure,

514
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: but if they if a massuse could include a little

515
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: backscratch in there, yeah, get ready for a huge tip

516
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, I guess, or does that? What is

517
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: that sexual? I think it.

518
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 3: Crosses a line once they're potentially clawing away skin cells.

519
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 3: I think that's longer in the massuse range or massuur range.

520
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that. Once skin cells are involved, you know,

521
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: under the nails, then your murder suspect, right, exactly? All right, Well,

522
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: should we take another break and talk a little bit

523
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: about one of the most distressing articles I've ever read?

524
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,479
Speaker 1: All right, so we've referenced this article from The New

525
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: Yorker from doctor utsul Goande and he talked a lot

526
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: about itching and just had good information on the science

527
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: of it all.

528
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 3: Well that's what he does.

529
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: But most of the article was focused on a patient,

530
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: a woman in Massachusetts that they named EM for the

531
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: article just M the letter M. In other words, you know,

532
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: she's anonymous, And I think she was anonymous because she

533
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: kind of had a rough go after her divorce. She

534
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: ended up getting HIV from getting on heroin kind of

535
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: spun out, it seems like, but then got her life

536
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: back by all accounts, but ended up getting shingles as

537
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: a result of HIV complications, and the shingles went away,

538
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: but the itching did not, to say the least.

539
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the itching came after the shingles, even

540
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 3: And at first her her physicians were like, well, I

541
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 3: mean you must have it damaged some nerves in there.

542
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: So.

543
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 3: Ts for you, I guess yeah. And then eventually after

544
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 3: treating it like all these different ways and it's still

545
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 3: being scratching, they said, Okay, you're crazy. How about that, right,

546
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 3: And she said, well, whatever, I still have this itch.

547
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 3: Do whatever you need to to treat it because I'm

548
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: literally scratching the itch in my sleep. It was on

549
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 3: her scalp wasn't it.

550
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was on her head and she she kind

551
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: of managed to control it during the day, but like

552
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: you said, at night, she couldn't control it to the

553
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: point where I think she was like restrained in her sleep.

554
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: That came after, Oh okay, after they realized it's a

555
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: problem because your brain is using out of your head.

556
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

557
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 3: Can you believe that she scratched her scalp so much

558
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 3: that she scratched through her skull. And she went into

559
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 3: her doctor one day and said, they've got like this

560
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 3: green fluid coming down. And then apparently the doctor the

561
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 3: doctor didn't even say anything, he was just she or

562
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 3: she was like, excuse me, went and called an ambulance

563
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 3: and came back and said please lay down and don't

564
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: talk or move or do anything else. And they finally

565
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 3: told her after she was at the er, you scratched

566
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 3: through to your brain, Like that's your brain you're touching

567
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: right now.

568
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: The doctor's like, very interesting, just give me a second

569
00:30:54,560 --> 00:31:01,239
Speaker 1: here her, Oh my god. Well, they gathered up all

570
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: the other doctors and nurses. Sure, yeah, you got to

571
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: come see this.

572
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 3: She said. Also in this article, she said that she

573
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 3: had a what do they call a roommate and okay,

574
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 3: a roommate, So she had a roommate while she was like,

575
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 3: they treated it, gave her a skin graft, and then

576
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 3: she she she scratched away the skin graft, and then

577
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 3: they finally were like, okay, you're going to an asylum.

578
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 3: And she's like, do they even call it that anymore?

579
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 3: And they're like, just shut up, and they put her

580
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 3: in this asylum and restrained her, like you said, while

581
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 3: she was sleeping, and she had a roommate in there.

582
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,479
Speaker 3: She said in the article she she heard didn't survive.

583
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 3: He had scratched through his carotid artery and died bled death.

584
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 3: So they never really got to the bottom of this.

585
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 3: She finally got a doctor. Like the doctors are like,

586
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 3: it's something that had to do with the s this

587
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 3: is what we think happens. That are doctors that the

588
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 3: the nerve endings around the area where she had shingles

589
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: were so devastated by the shingles that there were just

590
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 3: a couple of nerve endings left and it just so

591
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 3: happened that they were itch receptors. It yeah, itch receptors,

592
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: and that those were like really exacerbated by the fact

593
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 3: that there was no other competing sensations. Ipso facto, there's

594
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 3: your problem, right, So they said, well, we'll just cut

595
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 3: the main nerve to your face and that should solve

596
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 3: the problem. They cut the main nerve to her face

597
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 3: and she said yeah, and then the itch came back

598
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 3: and she's like, you have to be kidding me. So

599
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 3: finally she met a doctor who said, I don't think

600
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 3: it's your your receptors or the nerve transmission. I think

601
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 3: it's your brain, not psychologically. I don't think it's a psychosis.

602
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 3: I think there's that the actual itch signal and your

603
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 3: brain is being set off without any stimulation or transmission

604
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 3: going on. Yeah, and apparently she was right, but then

605
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 3: they were like, good luck treating that right.

606
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: You know. I didn't see much follow up on this.

607
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: I did read one article that a follow up with

608
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: doctor Gowande because there were a lot of skeptics after

609
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: that article came out that said it's impossible with your

610
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: fingernail because she said she didn't use an implement. It's

611
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: not like she got out of metal file to scratch

612
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: through your skull. And he said that his theory was

613
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: that bacteria it became infected had eaten it away such

614
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: that the skull became soft. Yeah. And then people also said,

615
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: and you know, you don't have men and women in

616
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: the same room in hospitals or asylums. That's that's false.

617
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: And he said that it was like the room next

618
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: door and quit being pedantic. Yeah, really, man, I think

619
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: people just didn't believe it. So all these folks rode

620
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: into the New Yorker. So those coastal elites said, no way,

621
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: They said.

622
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: A tool, A tool, come on. So the idea though

623
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 3: that even if this woman was hypothetical, I think tool

624
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 3: Gwande is pretty upstanding cat and didn't make this up.

625
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 3: But even if say she was hypothetical, her problem. What

626
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 3: the doctors initially thought it was was that she had

627
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 3: a neuropathic itch, type of chronic itch. But then the

628
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 3: doctor who apparently figured it all out, said no, no, no,

629
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 3: it's a neurogenic itch, another type of chronic itch, and

630
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 3: it has to do with whether it's the brain going

631
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 3: off or the nerve transmissions going off. Either way, you

632
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 3: don't actually have an itch, although you're experiencing the itch

633
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 3: sensation well.

634
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: And they also then said at some point she had

635
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: a psychogenic itch, right, So they basically covered three out

636
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: of the four kinds of itches, the last one being

637
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: man such a hard time per ireceptive and that's what

638
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: you get from like a mosquito bite, yeah, or if

639
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: you have a skin disorder like exma or something. Sure,

640
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: So they basically ruled out the most common one and

641
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: at various stages said, now you've got this other.

642
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 3: One right for the other three, right, finally, and then

643
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 3: again they said, we don't. There's really nothing we can

644
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:10,919
Speaker 3: do to treat it. The one that they've got down

645
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 3: pretty well is per receptive. We've got all sorts of

646
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 3: stuff to treat that because that's that's basically histamine is

647
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 3: being released and your your skin is itching. So you

648
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 3: can treat histamines with antihistamines. Yeah, you can reduce that

649
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 3: response and then your itch will go away.

650
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: Well, I took benadrill at night, and they also make

651
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: this benadrill spray, a topical spray that just it really helps. Right,

652
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: So between that and cortizone and then the benadrill at night,

653
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 1: I did okay, right, and those awesome showers.

654
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 3: So the like the pre receptive itch, we've got treatment

655
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 3: for basically, Yeah, the other three you're you're in trouble.

656
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 3: It turns out, as far as it stands right now,

657
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 3: maybe five or ten years from now there'll be something.

658
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 3: Apparently there is a lot of movement right now on

659
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 3: treating this stuff, but it's like they're having to figure

660
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 3: out how to block some really otherwise important chemicals in

661
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 3: the body, like that NPPB, Right.

662
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that one? What does It can help regulate your

663
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 1: blood pressure as well, right, So they can't switch that off?

664
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: Right? Yeah, just turn off the gene that produces that.

665
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: You won't itch, but you might die early, right, not

666
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 1: worth it? Right? The one that really, I mean, they're

667
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: all sad, but the psychogenic when you have a mental

668
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: illness where you feel like parasites and bugs on your skin.

669
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 3: Remember our Morglon's disease? Yeah, how did you said it?

670
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 3: More gallons? Right? And I said Morgalons.

671
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: I can't remember. I know that I said it the

672
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 1: way everyone else El says it, though, That's all.

673
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 3: I remember, Morgalons, that's right, That's how I said it.

674
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 1: Man. But all this stuff, it just had so much

675
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: empathy for m Yeah, and wanted to follow up so

676
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: bad to see how she was doing, you know. Yeah,

677
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 1: she kept scratching holes in her skull.

678
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 3: I don't know, geez. So there's I read another article

679
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 3: called Accidental Therapists. It's by a guy named Eric Brudman,

680
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 3: and it was published on a website called stat and

681
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 3: it's all about delusional para parasitosis but how it's treated

682
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 3: sometimes by entomologists, you know, like those extension services at

683
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 3: universities here in the US, like state universities have what

684
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 3: it called extension services, where like a scientist will basically

685
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 3: be there for the public to come talk to about whatever.

686
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 3: Usually it's like household stuff, for farm stuff, something like that.

687
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 3: And apparently entomologists frequently are approached with people who are like,

688
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 3: I've got these bugs like crawling all over me. Here's

689
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 3: the sample of them. And it turns out it's like

690
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 3: carpet fiber or something like that, and these people just

691
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 3: can't stop itching or whatever. But it turns out they

692
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 3: have a delusion, they don't actually have parasites. My question is,

693
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 3: is that our understanding of it now and in five

694
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 3: or ten years, we're going to know that they had

695
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 3: neurogenic itches and we just treated them like they were

696
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 3: crazy even though they weren't.

697
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's going.

698
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 3: To be like a real blemish on the history of

699
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 3: neuroscience maybe, or will this idea of psychogenic itches? You know?

700
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: Hold up, Yeah, I wonder did you ever see the

701
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 1: Todd Haynes movie Safe with Julianne Moore. No, it was

702
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: one of his first movies after the Karen Carpenter thing

703
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 1: he did. That wasn't like I mean, it was a

704
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: real movie, but it wasn't released. But Safe was very disturbing.

705
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: It was about a woman who kind of slowly drifted

706
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: into madness from believing that the world was poisoning her wow,

707
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: and like household chemicals and everything, And it kind of

708
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: started slow and eventually she ended up at this kind

709
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 1: of safe camp for people like her. Right, very distressing movie,

710
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: and some one of her first movies too.

711
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 3: I'll have to check it out.

712
00:38:58,440 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really good.

713
00:38:59,239 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 3: Oh it's old.

714
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: Yeah it was. It was early nineties. I think I

715
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 1: know you're talking about. No, it's called the Road to Wellville.

716
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: Is that what you mean? No, it's called Safe.

717
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll check it out.

718
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good and very distressing.

719
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think of anything.

720
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: And that wasn't necessarily itching, but it was just like

721
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: that psychogenic thing of like, I think everything in my

722
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: house is killing me. Yeah.

723
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 3: I mean, have you ever like stopped and thought about

724
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 3: something and thought, there's there's the path to madness right there.

725
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 3: I'm staring down it right now. I should probably not

726
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 3: keep thinking about this.

727
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: I don't really get like that. Oh no, no, I'm

728
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: very easily kind of led onto the next shiny thing.

729
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 3: I guess, oh like a bird.

730
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, basically that's probably for the best it is.

731
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: It has its drawbacks, though, Uh, what else you got? Well,

732
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: one thing it says in here is that having someone

733
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,959
Speaker 1: else scratch your itch does apparently does not do the trick.

734
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: So you have to scratch your own itch.

735
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean somebody can like obviously, like you know,

736
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 3: if you're like a little left a little left up

737
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:06,919
Speaker 3: up up. Yeah, see, I can't work.

738
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: I agree with that. Oh man, not you them saying,

739
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: oh right, like, I think it definitely helps.

740
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 3: I think what they're saying is that it doesn't have

741
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 3: quite the same relieving properties as if you do it yourself.

742
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and if you could reach that area of

743
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: your back, it would be better than that. Yeah, I guess,

744
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 1: so I got a pretty good backscratcher.

745
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 3: Now though, Oh yeah, what's it made of bamboo?

746
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: No, it's it's metal, but it's telescoping, so it's not

747
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: you know, two feet long, but it can be.

748
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 3: But it's metal.

749
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks like a like what are the bear claw?

750
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: Not the pastry, but a real bear claw which actually

751
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: looks like the pastry. Yeah, I guess that's why they

752
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: call it that. I never thought about that. Why do

753
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: you think that was called that? I actually call it

754
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 1: a bear paw. It looks more like a bear pa.

755
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 1: I'm trying and bring that, bring that around.

756
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 3: Unless you get somebody like really the extra mile and

757
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 3: puts almonds on the tips to make it look like

758
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 3: the claw.

759
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: Yes, and not just haphazardly scattered about the bare paw exactly.

760
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the difference between a baker who loves their

761
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 3: job the one who's just in it for the money.

762
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

763
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 3: A couple more things, Charles. Like we said, there's still

764
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 3: plenty of mysteries around itches. Yeah, why say, does a

765
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 3: feather tickle sometimes but itch other times? Big question? They

766
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 3: don't know, right, but I'd like to know.

767
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 1: Well, maybe the Germans will get active on this again. Yeah,

768
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 1: they're the only ones who can solve it.

769
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 3: Only the Germans can save us. You got anything else?

770
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: No, I don't. I don't either. Itching.

771
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 3: Nice work, thanks man, same to you, Thank you.

772
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 1: And you haven't scratched in a while, so.

773
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 3: No, I'm actually I've been scratching the same spot and

774
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 3: it's starting to get a little tender stopping. Man.

775
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 1: There's nothing worse in a movie, and I've seen it.

776
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: I feel like I've seen this a few times in

777
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: movies where someone is compulsively like scratching until it becomes

778
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: a sore, and then they're scratching it. It's just like

779
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: ugh through their brain.

780
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:18,399
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so I guess the moral of this one

781
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 3: is what would Tom Petty do? I'll ask him tomorrow.

782
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 3: If you want to know more about itching or what

783
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 3: Tom Petty would do, you can type those words in

784
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 3: the search bart howstufforks dot com. And since I said

785
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,479
Speaker 3: search bar, it's time for listener mail.

786
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this one of the many emails we

787
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: got on the swearing episode. Do you notice that people

788
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: really seem to like that one? Yeah, they did a

789
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: lot of response from mostly from fellow potty mouths, which

790
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: were very filthy emails too, which were great, and I

791
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: responded in turn by cursing at them. Sure replies, which

792
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: I hope they enjoyed in all caps, No, I didn't

793
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: want to be too aggressive. So this is from Emily Allen. Hey, guys,

794
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: longtime listener, first time writing in writing about swearing. I

795
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: should start by saying that it's funny I'm writing about

796
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: this episode because I almost never curse, and when I do,

797
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: it's normally not a very offensive swear. However, your intro

798
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: made me think of something interesting I wanted to share.

799
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: You talked about how you really censor yourself during recording

800
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 1: in or to keep your show family friendly. It got

801
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: me thinking about how our jobs really shape our vocabulary,

802
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: how we express ourselves. I noticed a major change in

803
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: the way I speak since becoming a teacher, primarily teach

804
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 1: kindergarten to second grade students, and I found this really

805
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: change the way I express myself. For example, I try

806
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: to avoid even saying things are dumb or stupid around kids.

807
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,439
Speaker 1: We'll often say, well, isn't that silly? Instead. This works

808
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,720
Speaker 1: in the classroom, but I often get laughs from friends

809
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: and family when I refer to a situations silly, like

810
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,439
Speaker 1: a disagreement with a colleague or something a politician does.

811
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: There are other expressions I use with kids that often

812
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: slip into regular conversation as well. The most embarrassing when

813
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: I'm out and excuse myself to go potty. That always

814
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: gets a laugh. Anyway, just want to share and thank

815
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: you for all the great work you do. Learn so

816
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: much from listening each week and I'm always excited to

817
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: see the new episode offerings every Tuesday and Thursday. That

818
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 1: is from Emily Alan. Thank you, Miss Allen, very silly.

819
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 3: That was a very nice email. Yeah, if you want

820
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 3: to get in touch with us, like miss Allen did,

821
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 3: you can send us an email and stuff podcast at

822
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 3: houstuffworks dot com and has always joined us at our

823
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 3: home on the web. Stuff you Should Know dot com.

824
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

825
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 2: For more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

826
00:44:53,080 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows