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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me Josh and there's Chuck over there,

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Speaker 1: and we just wanted to drop in to tell you

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Speaker 1: we're going on tour and you should come see us.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We are going to be in Seattle. I

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Speaker 1: think that show is close to sold out, so you

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Speaker 1: can always poke around for tickets. Sometimes they become available,

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Speaker 1: why not? And uh, what date is that? That is Thursday, January,

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Speaker 1: that's right. And then we're taking a ticket Friday after relax,

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Speaker 1: that's what we do. And then we're going to San

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Speaker 1: Francisco Sketch Fest on Saturday. That's right. We're going to

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Speaker 1: be there on January tenth of the Castro Theater. And

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Speaker 1: if you want to see us, well, then go to

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Speaker 1: s Y s K live dot com or the s

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Speaker 1: F Sketch Fest dot com website and you can get

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Speaker 1: tickets to come see us on Saturday January, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And if you're still around on Sunday the nineteenth, then

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Speaker 1: you want to come see Movie Crush live, you can

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Speaker 1: do that as well. It will be intimate and fun.

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Speaker 1: Nice get intimate with Chuck. Everybody. We'll see in January.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Steff. You should know a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, Nurse Charles W. Danger is his middle name,

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Speaker 1: even though it begins with W. Bryant. And there's Jerry

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Speaker 1: Jerome Roll. We're gonna stick with Jerome, Okay, it's a

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Speaker 1: good cave diver's name. Yeah, I have just my regular

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Speaker 1: name because I would never in a million years cave dive.

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Speaker 1: But I never even scuba dived. Fat I have. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I believe that open water stuff. I got really um

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Speaker 1: like I guess csick right afterwards two and I was

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Speaker 1: convinced that it had to do with the arrows breathing.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I'm done, which sticks because it was

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Speaker 1: really cool. Breathing underwater is one of the neatest experiences

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Speaker 1: you will ever have. It's really cool, but not not

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Speaker 1: snorkel like you're totally you're under water and you're breathing,

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Speaker 1: even as it's pool. It doesn't matter. Just take like

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Speaker 1: a scuba lesson once and you'll you'll there, you go,

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Speaker 1: You're done. I have dreams where I can breathe underwater

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Speaker 1: a lot, but it's not like, hey, I'm aquaman and

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Speaker 1: I'm just breathing like a fish or something. It's that

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Speaker 1: I figured out how to very slowly draw in air,

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Speaker 1: very carefully from the water around me. It's it's really

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Speaker 1: a strange dream, but I have it a lot. It's

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Speaker 1: pretty cool. Yeah, I'm not sure what it means. I

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Speaker 1: don't either. I can't even begin to guess. But what's

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Speaker 1: more boring than talking about someone's dreams? They say that

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Speaker 1: nothing is more boring than that. Yeah, I thought that

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Speaker 1: was a pretty interesting one though. If you're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about your dream, that's a good one to go with. Um,

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Speaker 1: we're not talking about your dreams today though, Chuck. No,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about cave diving, right, which is not a dream. Again,

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Speaker 1: I'm with you. I don't think it's not for me.

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Speaker 1: Like I couldn't even go like regular cavings so lunking,

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Speaker 1: which I did the one time, right, I can't remember.

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Speaker 1: Did you enjoy it? I did? It was a butt

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Speaker 1: kicker physically, very hard work. But I remember describing the

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Speaker 1: pancake thing that I went through where the you know,

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Speaker 1: I was laying on my back squirming through in the

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Speaker 1: in the rock face was three inches above my body

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Speaker 1: and face and you could you're getting nervous now I

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Speaker 1: don't even like hearing about it. Yeah, that was a

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Speaker 1: little weird, and I'm not even a claustrophobic guy, but

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is you know, you could die

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Speaker 1: in here. I've read about a poor guy, maybe the

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Speaker 1: poorest of all time, well one of them, who was

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Speaker 1: caving with his family, friends and family and got stuck

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Speaker 1: and ended up dying. His his like, they could get

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Speaker 1: to him, they could move his foot, they could touch

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Speaker 1: his leg legs, but he was just so stuck that

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Speaker 1: they just couldn't do anything for him, and so they

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Speaker 1: decided to go home. He died. No, they were there

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Speaker 1: the whole time, but he over like I think the

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Speaker 1: course of twenty four hours. He he just died the

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Speaker 1: slow she's terrifying death. So they couldn't They could reach

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Speaker 1: his foot, but not his mouth, clearly, yes, to give him,

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Speaker 1: you know, nutrients. They tried to give him stuff through

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Speaker 1: an ivy. I think they tried to give him a

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Speaker 1: sedative and it kept falling out of his leg, so

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Speaker 1: they couldn't even do that. Oh gosh, it was bad.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to even here about. I know, man, but

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Speaker 1: this is cave diving, which is even more dangerous than caving. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there's a couple of a few types of diving.

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Speaker 1: There's the open water diving that you were talking about,

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Speaker 1: there's cavern diving. An open water diving just means, if

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Speaker 1: you know, if you get in trouble, go up and

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Speaker 1: you'll reach the surface. You're not gonna get hit in

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Speaker 1: the head by a cave ceiling or pinned down through crevasse. No.

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Speaker 1: Cavern diving is a little different in that you're in

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Speaker 1: a cavern, but you should be able to see sunlight

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Speaker 1: above you and if you go up you can get

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Speaker 1: your head out. Eventually you're from what I saw, the

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Speaker 1: definition is your no more than seventy ft deep and

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Speaker 1: you're within a hundred and thirty linear feet of the

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Speaker 1: cave mouth or more specifically, your surroundings are illuminated by daylight.

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Speaker 1: That's that's really what separates cavern diving from cave diving.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like remember a bio speleology episode, So

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Speaker 1: this would be the twilight zone between the dark zone

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Speaker 1: and the light zone. That that would be kind of

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Speaker 1: cavern diving diving in the twilight zone. Right. Then you

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Speaker 1: get to cave diving, and that is serious business. This

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Speaker 1: is not. Uh, what's considered recreational diving? Uh, this is

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Speaker 1: going deep and dark? Yeah with David re going deep

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Speaker 1: with David Rees, I haven't spoken to recent a while.

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Speaker 1: I love that guy. Oh, he's a great guy. So

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Speaker 1: this is a technical diving. Can give another definition of deep.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't on that Reefe joke, going deep wasn't good enough.

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Speaker 1: Cave diving is diving with an overhead environment, so that

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Speaker 1: separates it from open water environment. If you goes and

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Speaker 1: panic and swim straight up, you're gonna bonk your head. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you might have gone to under foot um there and

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Speaker 1: you have no direct vertical access to open air surface

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Speaker 1: or light. Yeah, this is extremely important. Bas horror, a nightmare,

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Speaker 1: a living nightmare that you're doing on purpose that you've

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Speaker 1: paid it a lot of money to equip yourself for. Um.

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Speaker 1: The light thing is a really big one too. Like,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. It's really easy because you're thinking that

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Speaker 1: this is cave diving and the word caves in there

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Speaker 1: and we're talking about caves, but it's scuba diving really,

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Speaker 1: but it's scuba diving inside a cave. This is a

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Speaker 1: really important thing to not lose sight of. It's a cave.

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Speaker 1: It's deep in the bowels of the earth. Yes, there

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Speaker 1: are there's no light. There's only light is the light

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Speaker 1: that you have and you're moving through it underwater. This

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Speaker 1: is cave diving. I'm in awe of people who do this,

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Speaker 1: and I could watch videos of it all day long. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very cool to see. Um, it's like scuba plus

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Speaker 1: as far as the creep factor goes. I read one

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Speaker 1: article about a guy who is a cave diving researcher.

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Speaker 1: And as we'll see, you know, there's scientific discoveries that

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Speaker 1: have been made in these caves because just like the

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Speaker 1: the deep dry caves, the things that live in there

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Speaker 1: are remarkable. Um. And this guy was sixty nine years

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Speaker 1: old and still going strong and said his family, you know,

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Speaker 1: always worries about him, but he super experience, knows what

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Speaker 1: he's doing. But it's still fraught with danger. I do

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Speaker 1: have a few death stats if you want. I read

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Speaker 1: a scientific presentation called thirty years of American cave diving Fatalities.

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Speaker 1: Two thou you got the same one? Huh. This is

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Speaker 1: by the divers A Network. A hundred and sixty one

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Speaker 1: divers had died over that. Uh. What how long was

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Speaker 1: that thirty year period. Uh, sixty seven of them were trained,

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Speaker 1: eighty seven were untrained, which is crazy, Like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what they're doing down there to beginner with a

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Speaker 1: fool Yeah, if you just take up cave diving for

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Speaker 1: the first time, but like, yeah, exactly, because sixty seven

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Speaker 1: trained cave divers perished. Yeah, and how chuck? How what

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Speaker 1: was the vast majority? Most common cause was aphixia due

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Speaker 1: to drowning preceded by running out of breathing gas, usually

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Speaker 1: after getting lost because of a loss of visibility caused

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Speaker 1: by suspended silt. And that's where most of these are

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Speaker 1: in Florida, And that's where I learned about the silt

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Speaker 1: out also from the article you sent about the um

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Speaker 1: the cave rescue in Thailand in Thailand, which was apparently

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Speaker 1: very silty. And a silt out is when so much

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Speaker 1: silt gets kicked up that it just blacks out even

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Speaker 1: with your light source. Yeah. The guy that was in that,

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Speaker 1: I think it was an article in Atlantic um with

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Speaker 1: a guy and it was named Robert Layard. I think

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Speaker 1: he's a cave diving expert. And he said, you can

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Speaker 1: put your light up to your mask and you can

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Speaker 1: kind of see your light, but that's it, and you're

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Speaker 1: in a cave, so you don't know where to go.

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Speaker 1: Even feeling your way around is not going to help you. Um.

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Speaker 1: And the problem with a silt out is they can

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Speaker 1: last for so long in a bad a bad case

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Speaker 1: of a silt out, that you will run out of

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Speaker 1: air before the silt settles enough for you to see through,

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Speaker 1: So it's a bad jam. Well. And then this that

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Speaker 1: you probably read the same interviews, but there's a panic

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Speaker 1: is what this guy said is what usually happens even

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Speaker 1: with an experienced diver, because there's no escape, there's no

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Speaker 1: quick way out, and things tend to have a domino effect.

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Speaker 1: So if you're in a silt out, like you said,

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Speaker 1: it's you try and stay as still as possible, and

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Speaker 1: it's still maybe not gonna work. You're getting nervous, the

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Speaker 1: kind of fidgety now that you've pointed out it's panic

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Speaker 1: inducing just to think about it, Like you have to

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Speaker 1: remain perfectly still in the total darkness, and that might

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Speaker 1: not even be good enough to let that salt stuttle

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Speaker 1: settle I I saw um and even a bigger estimate

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Speaker 1: of the number of deaths from cave diving. From the

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Speaker 1: National Speleological Society's cave Diving section, they estimated more than

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Speaker 1: four deaths in the history of cave diving, but they

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Speaker 1: said in the world, okay, that the other one is

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Speaker 1: just o was it just America? Okay. They placed a

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Speaker 1: lot of them towards the beginning of cave diving, which

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Speaker 1: took which started in the fifties or sixties. Hey, I

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Speaker 1: wonder what's in their stage? Yeah, which is crazy because

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Speaker 1: scuba diving started in about the fifties. So within a

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Speaker 1: little while of somebody inventing scuba diving, some people were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: let's go into caves with this stuff. And they started dying.

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Speaker 1: And so they pointed out like these people didn't give

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Speaker 1: their lives in vain. Each day was a lesson learned

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Speaker 1: for everyone else who who um, you know, was yet

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Speaker 1: to come. But a lot of people died early on,

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Speaker 1: and it's gotten much. They are far fewer deaths from

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Speaker 1: cave diving. But it's like you said, there there typically

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Speaker 1: are cave diving experts who are dying because they're pushing

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Speaker 1: themselves further and further. If you have you know, no

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Speaker 1: one's cave died before every cave you dive into is

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Speaker 1: a new exploration and this is a huge driver for

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Speaker 1: people who cave died. This is why they do it.

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Speaker 1: They're seeing something that no other human on Earth in

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Speaker 1: most cases, has ever seen in the history of humanity.

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Speaker 1: They're the first human to be in this place. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's lots of stuff to discover for when humans were there,

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Speaker 1: but now it's flooded. Um, there's there's just a lot

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Speaker 1: of discovery. But as it's been going on for decades now,

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Speaker 1: every time somebody discovers a new thing, that's one thing

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Speaker 1: that that is not left to be discovered by everybody else.

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Speaker 1: So they're pushing themselves further and further. When you cave dive,

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Speaker 1: you might be a hundred feet under sea level, but

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Speaker 1: you might be scuba diving for miles down through a

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Speaker 1: cave system downward necessarily, yeah, horizontal miles. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: round trip for this this cave dive, which is nuts,

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Speaker 1: but that's that's what they do. Yeah. I don't even

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Speaker 1: remember where I was going with that. I started to

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Speaker 1: get panicked again. Have you seen Once upon a Time

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood? Yeah, you know the scene with Brad Pitt

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Speaker 1: on the boat in his in that sixty scuba gear.

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Speaker 1: It's just so cool looking at Before we say this,

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Speaker 1: I come from the future to warn us in the

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Speaker 1: past that we should add spoiler alert here. That was that. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's like when they used to call him skin divers. Yes,

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Speaker 1: do you think he killed his wife? Uh? Well, I

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Speaker 1: think that's what you were led to believe. Whether I

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Speaker 1: felt like it was up in the air well a

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Speaker 1: little bit. Uh. Also could have been an accident because

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Speaker 1: he was clearly had that spear gun resting on his

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Speaker 1: knee pointing at her right. Um. Yeah, The question is

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Speaker 1: did his neurons fire and make his finger move right? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so he took care of the spoiler that was like

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Speaker 1: five minutes ago, I know. And now we're back to

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Speaker 1: cave diving and we should talk a little bit about equipment.

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Speaker 1: This A lot of this came from one of our

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Speaker 1: old House Stuff Works colleagues from the website, our old

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Speaker 1: buddy John Fuller, who looks like mc estro. Like he's

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Speaker 1: been mentioned twice. Then he's the tie that binds the

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Speaker 1: Estra episode and the cave diving episode. Yeah, and some

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Speaker 1: of this equipment thing isn't the most exciting stuff in

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Speaker 1: the world. But we should talk about it anyway. I

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Speaker 1: found it frankly arousing. You got your mask, uh, and

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Speaker 1: this is something I didn't know. Um. They used sort

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Speaker 1: of simple black masks because it absorbs light. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: which makes sense. Yeah, because you're using your own light source,

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Speaker 1: so it can get pretty bright. I saw a flashlight

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Speaker 1: from under water kinetics. Maybe it's like fifteen thousand lumens

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Speaker 1: some ridiculous amount of lumens, a lot of lumens um.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, if you have that stuff bouncing all over

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Speaker 1: the place, you don't want your light, your your you know,

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Speaker 1: gold glitter, diamond dusted mask, reflecting it in your eyes

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Speaker 1: cuts down invisibility. But I take issue with Fuller saying

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Speaker 1: that they favorite simple masks because these guys do like

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Speaker 1: the full face like be a mask. Yeah, not the

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Speaker 1: bread pitt skin diver sixties mask, which I loved. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I think some of them might. But I

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Speaker 1: also saw plenty of them have like you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to think of what to call it, but just

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Speaker 1: a really cool full face mask. Yeah. It looks like

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Speaker 1: something that you could dive in a cave in or

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Speaker 1: go to outer space in. Basically. Yeah. So then you've

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Speaker 1: got your fins again, black rubber fins. But the difference

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Speaker 1: here and uh that I gather from this and open

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Speaker 1: water because you don't want those super long, super bindy

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Speaker 1: fins because you're trying to not kick up silt, so

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Speaker 1: you want those shorter, stiffer fins. Uh. And when you're

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Speaker 1: down there swimming around, you're using little, short, controlled kicks. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: big sweeping leg movements. No, it's a huge, huge difference

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Speaker 1: between cave diving and open water diving. Open witer diving,

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Speaker 1: your legs are extended out behind you and you're fluttering

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Speaker 1: those um, those fins up and down and you're propelling

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Speaker 1: yourself forward. In In cave diving, you're bent. Your legs

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Speaker 1: are bent at the knees, so your feet are up

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Speaker 1: slightly above you, and mostly you're making frog kicks, which

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Speaker 1: are all in the ankle, and you're just kind of

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Speaker 1: waddling yourself along with these little kicks. You see what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying. I love for twelve years you've been doing

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Speaker 1: little physical gestures of me like anyone else in the

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Speaker 1: world could see them. Well, who am I talking to?

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Speaker 1: But you know that's the whole point. So the frog

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Speaker 1: look chuck like this is what they do little frog kicks.

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Speaker 1: But in doing that that you cut down on the

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Speaker 1: potential of um coming in contact with the rest of

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Speaker 1: the cave. There's a couple of reasons why you want

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Speaker 1: to do that. One, you want to preserve the cave.

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Speaker 1: If you break off a stalactite, stalactite coming from the

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Speaker 1: ceiling um, that's a that's nature's work that you just

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Speaker 1: messed with. You don't want to do that, bro. And

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Speaker 1: then secondly, a lot of caves, pretty much all of

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Speaker 1: them have that silt sediment on the bottom. If you

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Speaker 1: kick it up, you've got a silt out, So you

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Speaker 1: you want to really be careful what kind of um

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Speaker 1: movement you're making with your fins, and then just how

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Speaker 1: big your fins are and how flexible they are. And

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Speaker 1: then one other thing about that too. You also want

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Speaker 1: to maintain basically perfect buoyancy where you're completely neutrally buoyant

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Speaker 1: relative to the top and the bottom of the cave. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what do they call the movement dragon float, pulling, glide

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Speaker 1: glide float. Yeah, it's sort of the same you do

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Speaker 1: when you recover a body. Well, a lot of this

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Speaker 1: is body recovery very sadly. Um, well, not a lot

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Speaker 1: of it, but part of search and rescue can very

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Speaker 1: much involve going deep and getting very swollen, water logged bodies.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you pull yourself along with your hand, like

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Speaker 1: in a little groove by the rock and then just

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Speaker 1: let yourself glide. It seems very relaxing considering you're doing

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Speaker 1: the most horrifying thing on the planet. Yeah, so you

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Speaker 1: might do that even instead of kicking, depending on where

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Speaker 1: the space is, how tight it is that kind of thing. Also,

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Speaker 1: it depends on how um uh solid the surroundings are,

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Speaker 1: like you wouldn't do that or anything like that. Um

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Speaker 1: And then also apparently you only do that when you

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Speaker 1: have a current. There's one thing we should say, there's

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Speaker 1: two kinds of cave diving, spring diving and sump diving.

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Speaker 1: And in spring diving that's where you see like the

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Speaker 1: pictures in like National Geographic magazine where it's just this

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Speaker 1: beautiful cave and there's just two people in scooba gear

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Speaker 1: floating in the middle of it. That's a spring fed

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Speaker 1: cave where you've got water moving through it keeping it

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Speaker 1: very clear because there's no way for sediment to settle

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Speaker 1: because the currents moving to to um quickly and you

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Speaker 1: use that current to pull and glide. That looks like

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Speaker 1: something has a little bit more appeal. Yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: mean it's just as dangerous as anything else. Like you said,

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Speaker 1: most of the people who die in cave diving die

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Speaker 1: in Florida, And that's what they're doing, is diving in

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Speaker 1: those springs U And the other time the sump kind

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Speaker 1: those are a little more scary to me. That's a

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Speaker 1: cave system where if you imagine like kind of like

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Speaker 1: a zigzag like Charlie Brown's shirt, say, that's the cave system.

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Speaker 1: The inside of the cave, half of the bottom half

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Speaker 1: is covered with water that you have to scooba through,

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Speaker 1: but you also have to climb over through dry parts

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Speaker 1: in air and then get down to the to the water. Again.

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Speaker 1: That's the sump kind of that's super sediment and you

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Speaker 1: really got to know what you're are doing there. That's

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Speaker 1: the most dangerous kind by far. Uh. You have your

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Speaker 1: suit that you're wearing, and you can wear a wet suit,

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Speaker 1: standard wet suit or a dry suit. These are not cheap.

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Speaker 1: They cost, you know, several thousand dollars per a good one.

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Speaker 1: All this equipment is not cheap. Uh, So it's not

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Speaker 1: the kind of thing that you just sort of decided

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Speaker 1: to try out, right, So you have to be wealthy

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Speaker 1: and totally out of your mind to cave die. Dry

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Speaker 1: suits are sealed off, so you know, if you've ever

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Speaker 1: put on a wet suit, part of the process is

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Speaker 1: getting in that cold water and letting it fill up

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Speaker 1: your wet suit, which will warm it up. That's the

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Speaker 1: idea eventually, is that water warms. But that process isn't fun.

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Speaker 1: Getting in and out of a wet suit isn't fun neither,

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Speaker 1: to be honest. And it's not that flouttering. No gotuits

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Speaker 1: to it, you know. Uh, we had to wear them

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Speaker 1: when we scoop it up with the whales, the whale sharks.

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Speaker 1: It seems like a hundred years ago. It was easily

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Speaker 1: a hundred years ago. The dry suits seal off that water,

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Speaker 1: so you are dry. That's why they call it a

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Speaker 1: dry suit. Your body doesn't get wet um. And the

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Speaker 1: cool thing here is that you can layer up some clothing,

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Speaker 1: uh and then put on this suit because you can

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Speaker 1: stay warmer. It's a much more pleasant imaging silkies or something. Yeah.

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00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,359
Speaker 1: I love the silkies. Uh. And then John makes a

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Speaker 1: good point. You want to you want to have like

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Speaker 1: extras of just about everything. Like you don't go down

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Speaker 1: there with a flashlight. I'd have eight flashlights strapped to

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Speaker 1: every single lamb on my body, like I'm sure they

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Speaker 1: carry like an extra. I would have a bunch of

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Speaker 1: extra light. Yeah, you get your little knife if you

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Speaker 1: get snagged, you cut things. I would have nine knives,

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Speaker 1: eight flashlights. Well, you do want a redundant amount of stuff,

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Speaker 1: like you were saying, like you just because if something

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Speaker 1: goes wrong down there, you are toast unless you can

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Speaker 1: slowly and deliberately get yourself back to the surface of

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Speaker 1: the ocean. That's right, that's so yeah. But the other

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Speaker 1: thing you want to do too is you're in very

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Speaker 1: cramp quarters here, so everything has to be strapped down

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Speaker 1: pretty closely to your body or in like a pocket,

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Speaker 1: because you can't have any stuff hanging down because you'll

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00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 1: get tangled up. I don't want to get tangled up

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00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 1: down there. But I know this is kind of amateur

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Speaker 1: hour stuff because we're not a good breaking point. But

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00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 1: we should probably take a nab break right here. No,

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00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,159
Speaker 1: I think it's a great time and we'll talk about

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00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: how you breathe down there right after this sk that's

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00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 1: what SKO you should know. Sorry, everyone, I'm so sorry.

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00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: So you need to breathe down there. Everyone has seen

385
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,439
Speaker 1: a scuba tank, um, but it's a little bit different.

386
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: It's quite a bit different in fact than open water diving. Um.

387
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: You're going to need uh, different things to go that deep,

388
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 1: different kinds of air mixtures. Uh. And there are a

389
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: few different kinds that you can use. But we should

390
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 1: probably talk a little bit about the bins and what

391
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: happens to your body. I know we covered the bens

392
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Speaker 1: in uh the which one was it the what was

393
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: the old time diving suit called diving bell? Was it

394
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 1: diving bell? I think we covered the bens. We must have,

395
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 1: probably so, yeah, because we've never done a scuba episode.

396
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,360
Speaker 1: So John from his original House of Works article makes

397
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 1: a very great point about pressure and talks about soda

398
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: bottles and obviously if you shake up a soda bottle

399
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 1: and then open it really quick, it's going to go everywhere.

400
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: Or if you're Josh and you've never in your life

401
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: apparently opened a tonic bottle, I thought it was tonic?

402
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 1: Was probably both really, yeah, you've got to open those

403
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: very very slowly every time, no matter if it's shaken

404
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: or not. I don't think any of those are my fault.

405
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: But um like every backstage we've ever been to has

406
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: tonic and soda on the floor. If there, I'm cursed

407
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 1: with that. But if you do shake up a soda

408
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: bottle in the difference between opening it quickly and very

409
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 1: very slowly is can be related to how the human

410
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: body reacts under the pressure of that water. Yeah, so

411
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 1: in this case, when you're scuba diving, opening the cap

412
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: is analogous to slowly making your way back up to

413
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: the surface at a graduated set of time. They're both

414
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: decompression basically, is what it is. And so you could

415
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,719
Speaker 1: have rapid decompression where your soda goes everywhere, or your

416
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: blood vessels burst, or you can follow these timetables to

417
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: um to get the nitrogen bubbles out of your blood.

418
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: And like you're saying, that's a big it's a big

419
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 1: problem with scuba diving, especially if you're down below a

420
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 1: hundred feet UM for an extended period of time, the

421
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,360
Speaker 1: nitrogen um can really build up in your blood, which

422
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: can give you the bends you can also suffer from

423
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: nitrogen narcosis, which is bad news where you apparently feel

424
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: like you're drunk because of your because you're intoxicated on nitrogen. Yeah,

425
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: the same thing can happen with oxygen. Yeah, Um, it's different,

426
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: but you can have oxygen what's it called oxygen toxicity? Right,

427
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 1: So there's like if you're just doing like a dive

428
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: or whatever and it's like thirty feet of water and

429
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: you're down for like half an hour or something like that,

430
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: you're just breathing compressed air, like they just took air

431
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: out of the air and put it into a tank,

432
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: and that's what you're breathing, and you're fine out of

433
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: the air exactly. So if you're down for a while

434
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: and you have this problem with too much oxygen or

435
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: too much nitrogen, they started to get kind of crafty

436
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: with the stuff that they put into the tanks. There's

437
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: something called nitrox which deals with, um, the problem of

438
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 1: nitrogen arcosis by removing a certain amount of the nitrogen

439
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: and replacing it with oxygen. So with compressed air, with

440
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 1: regular air that we breathe here at sea level, UM,

441
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: it's something like seventy eight percent nitrogen. Yes, and like

442
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: no oxygen, is that right? I had them backwards. Oxygen

443
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: seventy eight percent nitrogen. In nitrox, you have something like

444
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 1: thirty six percent oxygen and the rest of nitrogen. So

445
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: because you have far less nitrogen there, you are susceptible

446
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: to the bends and nitrogen our coast is less susceptible

447
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: than you would be breathing compressed air, So you can

448
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: go down further and you can stay down longer. But

449
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: the problem is, like you were saying, that oxygen toxicity

450
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: can be an issue too, so they've come up with

451
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: even even other stuff. Yeah, you can breathe helium. There's

452
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: something called helios seventy helium oxygen. The weakness here is

453
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: or I guess, the downside is that you lose body

454
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 1: heat six times faster than with compressed air nitrox, So

455
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: then you gotta think about hypothermia. It's cold down there,

456
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: it is cold. And then there's one called trimex, which

457
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: is oxygen, nitrogen and helium, and apparently this is what

458
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,719
Speaker 1: you use for the deepest dives. Yes, And it's like

459
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: all of these things have their pluses and their minuses.

460
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 1: There is no perfect gas, but people have figured out

461
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 1: things like um like if you want to use helios um,

462
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: you can stay down longer. You're not gonna get nitrogen arcosis,

463
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: and your case of the bends is probably you're less

464
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 1: susceptible to the bends because the nitrogen is not present.

465
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: But you also can't breathe that up closer to the surface.

466
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: There's not enough oxygen in it, so you have to

467
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: carry an extra tank of oxygen or mixed air to

468
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: to switch to as you get closer to the surface.

469
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: There's like a lot of different clever things you can

470
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: do to make it safer for you to stay down

471
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: longer and go further into a cave system when you're

472
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: diving in it. Yeah, and the rule of thumb is

473
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: they go by the rule of thirds, which I saw

474
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: it described a little bit differently than the House of

475
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: Works article describes it. The way I saw it was

476
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: because you want to make sure you always have two

477
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: thirds of your inc left when you're at your deepest

478
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: part of the dive. Yeah, I think that's what Fuller's said.

479
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 1: Maybe he just said it in the way that sounded

480
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: a little backwards, but yeah, that's that's the rule though,

481
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: is if you know you're going to go to us

482
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: the very deepest spot you're going to. You want to

483
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: only use one third of your oxygen of your tank

484
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: mixture to get that far, because sometimes it can take

485
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 1: longer to get get out than it did to get in,

486
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: and you want to be back on the surface with

487
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: a third left in your tank. Basically right. Plus, don't

488
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: forget you're also going to have to slowly unscrew the

489
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: cap on the soda bottle. It takes time, and therefore

490
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: it takes some of your air, your gas and your

491
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: tank to um to do the decompression schedule and slowly

492
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: work your way up to keep those nitrogen bubbles from

493
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: um explosively producing in your blood. How do those tables work?

494
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: Do you have no idea? Do you just learn this stuff?

495
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: You have it like on your piece of paper. Yeah,

496
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: I mean obviously not just regular. It's it's laminated. It's laminated.

497
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: It's basically But you're looking and I'm sure if you're

498
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: an experienced diver you know those things back and forth.

499
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 1: But because there's such a thing as nitrogen narcosis or hydrogen,

500
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: you can breathe hydrogen, but apparently it has a trippy

501
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: effect on you too. You would want to be able

502
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: to have something to look at, so you're not just

503
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: relying on your brain. But they haven't printed out. Yeah,

504
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 1: so the idea is like how much leeway is it?

505
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: Like you can't go like don't go ten feet higher

506
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: or you're in big trouble, Like it can't be. It's

507
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: not down to the inch or anything, right, it's I

508
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: don't think it's that, although I suspect that as we advance,

509
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: like we'll have it down to the inch and like

510
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: by different kinds of people in genetics and stuff like that,

511
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: But right now it is. I think it isn't graduated

512
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: in ten feet or maybe ten meters because that's an atmosphere,

513
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: but it says stay at this depth for this amount

514
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: of time before moving up ten meters to hang out

515
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: for another minute. So I think it's longer than that. Yeah. Um,

516
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: And what you're doing is you're allowing the nitrogen that's

517
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: dissolved in your blood to turn back into gas, go

518
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: to your lungs and then be expiated to be breathed

519
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: out by you slowly. That's what you're doing. And so

520
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: they figured out that after say ten minutes at thirty meters,

521
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: you have removed enough of that blood or that nitrogen

522
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: from your blood that you can safely move up to

523
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: the next ten ms above and you're neutral. At this point,

524
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: you're just hanging out, hanging up and rising unless you

525
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: try to know you have a buoyancy vest that is

526
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: is keeping you neutral. Yeah, you're just hanging out. Yeah,

527
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: you don't want to rise. Now, if you're in big

528
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: trouble and like you're out of air, you want to

529
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: make your way to the surface and just take pressure,

530
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: you know, press your luck right, Like, I'm either going

531
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: to drown or have the bends and maybe the bens

532
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: won't kill me, but drowning will definitely kill me, even

533
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: though we learned that drowning is not necessarily what you

534
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: think it is. Um the that's but if you aren't

535
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: in any trouble, you want to go through the decompression schedule, Okay,

536
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: got it? Yeah, I mean I just I knew about

537
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: this stuff, but I've never really kind of thought about

538
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: exactly how that worked. I wonder if we do need

539
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: to do a Scooba episode now, maybe maybe not. I mean,

540
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,239
Speaker 1: what are you doing while you're waiting around? You're just

541
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: waiting around looking at the fish, looking at fish? If

542
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: you're with the camp. You should be with a buddy.

543
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: It's tough to communicate unless you have radio, and in

544
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: which case, if you do have radio, you're probably listening

545
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: to XM or something like that instead. But you can

546
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: communicate with hand signals or US. Sure, yeah, you could

547
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: listen to stuff you should know. Would be nice. It's

548
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: a great idea. So let's go back to traveling. We

549
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: talked about the grabbing pull, the pulling glide, grabbing float.

550
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,479
Speaker 1: Uh you can also have one of those. And this

551
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: is what I would totally have, one of those cool

552
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: little dpvs driver propulsion vehicle. It's the little torpedo looking

553
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: us sort of like a boat, uh for peller that's

554
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: enclosed and it just pulls you along. You just hang

555
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: onto it and it drags you behind it. Yeah. I

556
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: always thought those were really cool. Yeah, they're cool. They're

557
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: kind of James BONDI very much. But that's gonna save

558
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: you from breathing uh more because you're exerting yourself. It's

559
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: going to save you from just exerting. You know, you're

560
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: not gonna be as tired. I mean, think about it,

561
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: diving for miles under the Earth's surface, like for miles along.

562
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: Even though you're floating, you're still working. Yeah, yeah, that

563
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: little kick your your ankles are going to get tired

564
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: after a while, your little ankles. Yeah, and that would

565
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: help a lot. But I would imagine you really want

566
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: to practice on that thing, because if it got away

567
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: from you, it's gonna pull you into like a cave

568
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: wall or something like that. You're in trouble. Kick up

569
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: that silt. I would think that little propeller will kick

570
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: up silt. I guess if you're not on the bottom,

571
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: I think you keep it away from the bottom. All right,

572
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: I think we should take another break and we'll talk

573
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: about what I think is one of the cooler parts

574
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: about this whole thing, or these guidelines right for this

575
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: spoiler alert large sk sk s. All right, you're underwater,

576
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: you're hundred feet into a cave. It's pitch dark. You've

577
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: got your little flashlight, but you need a little trail

578
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: of bread crumbs, right, yeah, more than that. You can

579
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: get disoriented down there, even if you're super experienced. So

580
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: you need something that says go this way, uh to

581
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: to live right, So you have guidelines, like not written guidelines, no, no,

582
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: an actual literal guideline right. Um. And they were laid however,

583
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: many years before by people who originally explored the cave,

584
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: and they the yellow lines or gold lines I'm sorry,

585
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: are yellowish and color and they use those as like

586
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: the main line through the main parts of the cave. Yeah,

587
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: and it's like a little thinner than a rope, but

588
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: it's basically a nylon string that is throughout the main tunnels.

589
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: Like you said, these little side tunnels are gonna have

590
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: white lines if you branch off and you know, you know,

591
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: you look at the color and you know where you

592
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: are basically in a side tunnel or the main channel,

593
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: and they end within about five to ten feet of

594
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: the main line. Um. That main line too, doesn't go

595
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: right to the top of the entrance because apparently that

596
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: is an invitation for dumb dumbs to say, like, hey, look,

597
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: let me see where that leads, right, So they don't

598
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 1: even put them on the surface, no fifty ft from

599
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: the entrance like you said. Yeah, I saw a really

600
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: interesting video from the nineties called a Deceptively Easy Way

601
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: to Die, And it's like blood on the asphalt, but

602
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: for cave diving, it's like an instructional video. Recreation in

603
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: crazy camera shaking like it's out of control. Yeah. Um.

604
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 1: And the guy it's from the the cave Diving chapter

605
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: of the National Splunking Society. Um, and like it really

606
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: like it is meant to scare you. The guy even says, like,

607
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: am I scaring you a little bit? Good? It's just

608
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: like like a car safety video but ended with the

609
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: song cave diving don't do it right? He Um? Is

610
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: that a Heather's reference? I think so. Um. But he

611
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: was saying, this guy who was astounding, it was almost

612
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: like he was a Ventrila. Christy barely moved his mouth

613
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: and words were coming out, I gotta go watch this. Um.

614
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: But he was saying, not only did they not put

615
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: um like the lines near the mouths of caves to

616
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: tempt people. They say, if you're not an experienced cave

617
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: diver going on a cave dive, but you're gonna be

618
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: diving somewhere in the area of a cave, don't even

619
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: take a light with you, just to keep yourself from

620
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: being tempted, from being like, oh, I gotta light, let

621
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: me go down in this. If you don't have a light,

622
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: even the most foolish among us probably would not go

623
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 1: into a cave, but if you do have a light,

624
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 1: you might try it even experience. For sure, that makes sense,

625
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: but you're still a dumb dumb to do exactly. Uh.

626
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: They do have entry lines though, and that is if

627
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: you go to it explore in a cave. It's it's

628
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: a temporary line that you do and you this is

629
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: the one that you do, tie to a big rock

630
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: on the surface, and then you take that to the

631
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: main line that's fifty two feet inside and then everything's

632
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: all connected. Because John makes a great point, you've got

633
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 1: to be able to if in the worst case scenario,

634
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: if it's dark down there, pull yourself along this line,

635
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: give the okay sign to your buddy. Um, and you've

636
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: got to maybe do this in total darkness with your

637
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: eyes closed, so your flashlights off where it's silty silt out. Yeah,

638
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: that's scary stuff. I have the impression that you're kind

639
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: of supposed to be hanging on to this guideline basically

640
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: all the time, Yeah, or like pinches away from it

641
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: at all times. I would want it within grabbing distance

642
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah. Did you read up about the Dorf markers.

643
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: I predicted that the Dorf markers existed, because yeah, before

644
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: I got to that part, I was like, surely they

645
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: have thought of this, like an arrow. Yeah, it's it's

646
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: like a plastic basically arrow on the line saying this way,

647
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: not that way. Because I mean, if you're in a

648
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: cave system and you turn around, you were like, wait

649
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: a minute, doesn't look anything like what I thought. I

650
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: just came through panic. Luckily you have the guideline, but

651
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: which way is the guideline leading you? So that's what

652
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: these dwarf markers are, their arrows pointing the way to

653
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 1: the mouth of the cave, the way out. Basically, did

654
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: you see the history of the Dorf marker, because immediately

655
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: was like, why is it called a Dorf marker? It

656
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 1: was just such a weird name. And apparently I got

657
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: this from a brief history of the cave diving line

658
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: arrow by Alexander Cofield Fief And Uh, there was a

659
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: death in nineteen at Peacock Springs in Florida where pre

660
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: dwarf marker, and I guess this person died from the

661
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 1: situation you just explained, like went deeper into the cave

662
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: instead of on the planet. I know. Uh. And a

663
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: man named Lewis Holzendorf invented this thing out of duct tape.

664
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: So he made these duct tape arrows and they called

665
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: him Darf markers. But because they were dwarf I'm sorry,

666
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 1: because they were tape and all dwarfed up, they would

667
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: deteriorate or fold up and not work over time. So

668
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: later on flash forward, a man named Forrest Wilson invents

669
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: these modern dwarf markers and one of the stipulations he

670
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: was like, we gotta call him Darf markers still, which

671
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: was very cool. But these are finally made out of plastic.

672
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: It's a plastic triangle you folded over the line and

673
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: snap it shut basically. So thanks to Forest Wilson and

674
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: Lewis Holsendorf, the worst case scenario is I'm getting out

675
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: of here and you're just going deeper. Then will never happen.

676
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: Forest Wilson told everybody we go out to call him

677
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: dodarf markers, and they're like, after a Wholsendorf, He's like,

678
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: who oh, man, that's a good dumb joke. Take a

679
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: lot of set up to the I just used up

680
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: a lot of our air, all right, So you've got

681
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,280
Speaker 1: these dwarf markers, they're telling you where to go. You're diving.

682
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: If it's just a regular sort of and I was

683
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: about to call it a recreational dive, but technically it's

684
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: a technical dive. But if you're just out there having

685
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: a good time, you're probably down there for about an

686
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: hour or so at least. But if you're really like

687
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 1: doing scientific investigation or inquiry, or if you're after a body,

688
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: then you can be down there for hours and hours

689
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: doing your thing. So, um, some of these extraordinarily long

690
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: cave dives can last into the double digits of hours,

691
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 1: and they'll have tanks placed along the path basically where

692
00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: tanks maybe all right, the ghost of Orf himself is

693
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: handing these out. Um, I don't know if he's dead

694
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: or not yet, Tim Conway Noldorf. Yeah, I don't think

695
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: he's with this, Okay, Yeah, so he's this friendly patron

696
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: spirit who hands out tank I think, although who knows,

697
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: he may still be around. Well, why did you say

698
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: that you didn't think he was? And I got the

699
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: idea because someone else developed it and named it after him,

700
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: that it was in memorium. I might have been wrong. No, No,

701
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 1: it's like it's a good point. At any rate, they'll

702
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: leave tanks along the way so you can be like, well,

703
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: here's my new fresh tank. It's pretty pretty amazing. But yeah,

704
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: these the cave dives can last very very long time.

705
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: And like you're saying, when they're doing this stuff, there

706
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: probably are being employed by maybe the National Geographic Society,

707
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 1: a museum, uh, some university, and they're exploring the geology

708
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: of these caves that no one has ever seen before.

709
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: They're also conducting underwater archaeology, which is a huge new

710
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: aspect for cave diving because what they figured out is

711
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 1: we we've lost a lot of human settlement um archaeology

712
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 1: when the sea levels rose after you know, eleven thousand

713
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: years ago and people were running around in America on

714
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: the coast more than we realize. And we're starting to

715
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: figure that out because of this cave diving archaeology that's

716
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: become a thing. Yeah. The uh, the largest as in

717
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: longest not deepest um underwater cave is in Tuloom on

718
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico, and they, I think it

719
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: was a few years ago, discovered that two flooded caves

720
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: actually connected, making it the longest. It's two hundred and

721
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: fifteen miles. If these things, you know, if you go

722
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: from end to end and and there are um tons

723
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: and tons of Mayan like extinct animal stuff and Mayan

724
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: artifacts like you were talking about, it just the waters

725
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: rose and then stuff just got sucked in. Yeah. They

726
00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: found the oldest, mostly in techs Ellaton in North America.

727
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: In one of those caves, the Hoyo Negro. Uh. It

728
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: was a woman named Nea and a I A I

729
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: believe that's what they named her. And um she was

730
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: from something like a fourteen thousand, five hundred years ago, wow,

731
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: which is way older than the Clovis people. Can you

732
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: imagine coming upon that it would be pretty neat? Yeah, yeah,

733
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: but this is what cave divers do. Yeah. Yeah, it's

734
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: one of the things. The deepest is pretty new as

735
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: far as findings go. Well, the deepest in America is

736
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: Phantom Springs Cave in Texas, which is chump Change at

737
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: four hundred and sixty two ft. The deepest now it

738
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: passed Italy's Pozzo del Metro um it is in the

739
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 1: Czech Republic and Pozzo Demorros uber to this one. The

740
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 1: Ranika pro post is dred and twenty five ft deep.

741
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 1: It's amazing. And I don't think they've gone to the bottom.

742
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: I think they go as far as they can go,

743
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: and then I think they drop a line and measure

744
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: from there, right exactly. Yeah, that's and apparently GPS doesn't

745
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 1: work at all in these cave systems. It's just impenetrable. Um,

746
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: so they have to tie off ten ft increments on

747
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 1: rope and just lower it down. That's how they figured

748
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: out the one in the Czech Republic. And this is

749
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: a big team. This isn't just like alright, we got

750
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: our buddy system. It's like you've got a lot of

751
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: people involved in something like this, right, for safety obviously, yeah,

752
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: and for some fellowship and for fun. Yeah. The reception

753
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: afterward is quite nice. Right, So how do you do this?

754
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: How do you get certified? Oh? Well, um, there's a

755
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: lot of steps you want to take. You want to

756
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: become a basically a professional open water diver first with

757
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: years and years of experience. Yeah, this one guy said,

758
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: at least fifty dives before you even think about a cave, right, um.

759
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: And then after that you want to start training for

760
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: cavern diving. Yeah, you want to do that for a

761
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: couple of years, your toes wet and then right, and

762
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: then you start doing cave diving. And one of the

763
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 1: ways they didn't think about this, but it makes sense.

764
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 1: One of the ways you train for cave diving is

765
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: doing night diving, taking a night diving course. Yeah, because

766
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 1: there's no water. Yeah, there's no sunlight. There are probably

767
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: night diving in caverns or something like that. That's probably

768
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: kind of creepy too. Yeah, but once you are a

769
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: certified cave diver, you are part of basically the top

770
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: one percent of divers in the world. There's I saw

771
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 1: an estimate of seventy five professional caves in the world. Yeah. Um,

772
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: so you're part of a very elite group who are

773
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: actually exploring, like pushing the limits of human exploration on

774
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: Earth right now. Yeah, And I saw the one guy

775
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: who was who had um I think it was a

776
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: guy who helped out with the rescuing Thailand, which we

777
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 1: got to talk about. Yeah, I mean he was saying,

778
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: you know, this stuff is tough to do because you

779
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 1: think you just go in and retrieve a body, but

780
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: it's a crime scene first of all, so you can't

781
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 1: phote to graph it, so you have to go down

782
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: there and first look around and make as many mental

783
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 1: notes as you can to recreate this for an artist perhaps,

784
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 1: or for at least note taking. And uh, he said,

785
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: it's really tough emotionally, um and physically to get the

786
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: body out. It's not you gotta be made of tough

787
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: stuff exactly. That's it. You didn't have any else on it. Well,

788
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about the the Thaie cave rescue.

789
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: That's what we were going on. But the thing is,

790
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 1: there weren't anybody's There was one former Thie seal Navy

791
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 1: seal who died, and because he died, the Thai Navy realized,

792
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 1: we don't have any professional cave divers and stuff. We

793
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: need to make this part of our formal training. So

794
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: now they do have that. Yeah, but in two thousand

795
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: and eighteen in the summer, you know, the whole world

796
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: was watching because these these twelve soccer players and their

797
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: coach were hiking along in a cave system that got

798
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 1: flooded from a monsoon. When they were trapped in what

799
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: became us some cave and um, just from everything we

800
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: learned about cave diving, the idea that they managed to

801
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: get all twelve of the soccer players and their coach

802
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: out to safety in one of the most treacherous types

803
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: of caves you can dive, and no one died except

804
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: for this one diver is astounding man. Yeah, and that

805
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 1: the one guy was talking about just how silty it

806
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: was down there. And uh so you're trying to rescue

807
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: these people with a minimal movement as possible, so you're

808
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: not getting a silt out conditions. I just where's that

809
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: movie it's got to be coming, sure, Yeah, yeah, is

810
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: that you got anything else? Uh, Hugh Jackman, lead diver,

811
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: Why not? I got nothing else? I mean, I guess

812
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: this last part about regulations is it's not super highly regulated.

813
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: You're sort of um dealing with the local authorities and

814
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: it sounds like, uh like how ortis or treacherous hiking.

815
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: You gotta you gotta check in with an office and

816
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: usually say this is what I'm doing, this is where

817
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 1: when I'm going in and when I'm coming out, and

818
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: you gotta sign that little piece of paper when you return,

819
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: otherwise they're going to come looking for you. Yeah. But

820
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: there's also places where you like, you can cave dive

821
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: all you want, where you just pay a fee. They

822
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: just are like, go with God, do your thing. There's

823
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: this a flooded mine. I've talked about before I don't remember,

824
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: must have been the Abandoned Minds episode in Bond Tear, Missouri.

825
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:33,439
Speaker 1: It's just this a flooded nineteenth century mine. Like vog

826
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: could clear water a hundred foot visibility and you just

827
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: swim around the mine. Hey, there's Rambo, But was he

828
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: in the mine? Yeah? You head out in the mind

829
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: in First Blood. I'll bet we had the same conversation

830
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: the Abandoned Minds episode, because I don't recall it. Are

831
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: you got anything else? Nope? Well, if you want to

832
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: know more about abandoned Minds, almost said, if you want

833
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: to more about cave diving, read about it. Probably don't

834
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: do it. Uh. And since I said it's time for listening, oh,

835
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: you can read about on how stuff works. Even that's right.

836
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: And since I said that it's time for listening, I'm

837
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: gonna call this one of the follow ups from our

838
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 1: Conversion Therapy podcast. We got a lot of really good

839
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: responses on that and one bad one. Did you see

840
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: that guy? I didn't see that one? Now. Yeah, we

841
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: had a guy who wrote said he was quitting us

842
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: because our liberal bias. But it was interesting because he says, well,

843
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: I don't think conversion therapy is something that works. I

844
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: do think that homosexuality is a disease. He's one of those.

845
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, I wrote him back and just I

846
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: was very nice. I was like, you could probably find

847
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: podcasts that are better suited for you. You didn't say, Sionara,

848
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: no cultural appropriation. Yeah, I just said good luck to you, sir.

849
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: That was very classy. Chuck. Yeah. Um. I always think

850
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: it's interesting when people write us to tell us they're

851
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: quitting us. Have you ever taken the time to do

852
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: I have not. You just quit something, right, Yeah, yeah,

853
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,479
Speaker 1: keep it to yourself, maybe, like you know, and about

854
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: it to friends for a little while to get it

855
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,240
Speaker 1: off your chest. But like, just so you know, person

856
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:10,879
Speaker 1: president I've never met. Uh this is from Jordan's He says, hey, guys,

857
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: is a Southern Baptist turned agnostic. I absolutely detest the

858
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: acceptance of the garbage psychotherapy pseudoscience of CT. Josh mentioned

859
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: that have you ever been an early teenager and uh,

860
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: late teenager? You know what it's like to be sexually

861
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: confused or curious. When I was between the ages of

862
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: fourteen and seventeen, I was called gay or the F word.

863
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,919
Speaker 1: Many times. I did have what some might consider tell

864
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: tell signs stereotypically at least associated with being gay. The

865
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: bullying and verbal abuse was so intense and frequent, I

866
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: truly started to question my sexual preferences. That question was

867
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: put to bed quite definitely, definitively one night when a

868
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: very good male friend of mine and I decided to

869
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: experiment some I'll spare the specifics, but I realized that

870
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: night this is just was not doing it for me,

871
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: but being the good Baptist boy that I was, I

872
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: felt guilty about that night, and even though I was

873
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: not aroused, it was still a homosexual act. I carried

874
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: that guilt with me for many years and through college,

875
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: until I realized almost every other male friend of mine

876
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: had some kind of experience that they could look back

877
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 1: on and say this is when I knew I was

878
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 1: straight or gay, or buy or trans or whatever. At

879
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: that point, I was finally able to let go of

880
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 1: that guilt, and what a relief that was to my

881
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 1: mental health. I wanted to thank both of you for

882
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 1: making the point that an experience or a feeling you

883
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: have in that time of your life should not be

884
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: anything to feel guilty about. I didn't know that when

885
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: I was, and I was mentally abusive to myself over

886
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,879
Speaker 1: a long time. What a shameful is how many people

887
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: would use the knowledge of such an act as a

888
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: weapon to abuse the person even more. Boo his. So

889
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: to every teenager out there, please don't think there's something

890
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,919
Speaker 1: wrong with you because of your curiosity. Embrace yourself. Don't

891
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: worry about what your peers or elders may think. You

892
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 1: are perfect the way you are. Nice boom. That's from

893
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 1: Jordan's Thanks Jordan. Jordan wasn't even an on im. It's

894
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: good for you Jordan's Yeah, he even drew a little

895
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: mic dropping right. That was a great email. Yeah, that's funny.

896
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 1: If the guy who said he wrote in to say

897
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: he was quitting us, he's like, oh, cave Jing, I'll

898
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: give him. He gets the listener emails, he's gonna send

899
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: us another email. He's like, oh, this next one is

900
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 1: called the gay disease. Maybe I should listen. Uh. Well,

901
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: that was very nice for Jordan to shout it out

902
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: to everybody out there. Way go if you want to

903
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 1: shout something out to support and encourage your fellow humans.

904
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: We love that stuff. You can go on to stuff

905
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: you should Know dot com and send us something on

906
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: one of our social links. Or more better, you can

907
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: go to your email client and send us an email

908
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: to stuff podcasts at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you

909
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: Should Know is a production of iHeart Radios. How stuff

910
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: works for more podcasts for my heart radio because at

911
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

912
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.