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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece, incredibly famous YouTuber, a mommy vlogger,

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Speaker 1: Ruby Frankie. Her family now says she should be quote

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Speaker 1: put away in jail forever. Really you're saying that? Now, well,

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Speaker 1: where were you when her children? And this is a

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Speaker 1: mommy vlagger that gives millions of people parenting advice. Where

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Speaker 1: were you Frankie family when she was duct taping her

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Speaker 1: children and starving them? Where were you when she was

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Speaker 1: keeping them hidden in the house? Now you want her

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Speaker 1: in jail? Daylight dollar short I Nancy Grace, this is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at

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Speaker 1: Foxcination and Serious XM one eleven. This now notorious mommy vlogger.

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Speaker 1: He believes she is telling all of us how to

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Speaker 1: raise children. You know, I learned that police or defects

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Speaker 1: would go to the home and the children would actually hide.

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Speaker 1: They wouldn't speak to the teachers or the school detectives.

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Speaker 1: They tried to find out what was going And you

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Speaker 1: know what, shame on them, not the children, but the cops,

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Speaker 1: defects and school detectives who didn't follow up. When you

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Speaker 1: have a child that basically hides from you when you're

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Speaker 1: asking it a simple question. There's something horribly wrong, but

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Speaker 1: they just dropped the ball and it resulted in a

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Speaker 1: little boy, starved, bound with duct tape, sneaking out and

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Speaker 1: running to an neighbor's home to try to get something

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Speaker 1: to drink and eat. Yeah, and then when Ruby Frankie

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Speaker 1: ends up in court, guess what she does. I hope

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Speaker 1: you're sitting down. You may need to lay down for this.

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Speaker 1: She actually blames her children and said that at least

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Speaker 1: one of them started watching porn when he was three

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Speaker 1: years old, and that they're molesting each other. What oh,

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Speaker 1: did they starve themselves too and bind themselves with duct tape? Guys,

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Speaker 1: let's just start at the beginning with a nine to

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Speaker 1: one one call.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I just had a twelve year old boy show

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Speaker 2: up here at my front door asking for help. And

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Speaker 2: he's said he had just came from a neighbor's house,

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Speaker 2: and we know there's been problems at this neighbor's house.

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Speaker 2: He's emaciated, he's got tape around his legs, he's hungry,

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Speaker 2: and he's thirsty, sitting outside with him on the front patio,

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Speaker 2: and he asked us to call the police. So he's

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Speaker 2: very afraid.

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Speaker 3: He's twelve years old, okay, And are the neighbors alex

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Speaker 3: of our home or is anybody looking for them that

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Speaker 3: you can see?

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Speaker 2: No, we are homes are part enough away. I'm not sure.

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Speaker 2: How did you get out of the house, he says,

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Speaker 2: he just left through the porch at the neighbor's house.

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Speaker 2: Their name is Jody Hill. The brand I think Cana.

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Speaker 2: The houses are far apart, so he walked just under

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Speaker 2: the block to get to our house. He rang my

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Speaker 2: doorbell and asked me to call the police.

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Speaker 1: So it's my understanding with me. An incredible panel. But

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Speaker 1: first to Emily Ashcroft, reporter KSL dot com in Utah, Emily,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. From what I'm deciphering

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Speaker 1: from the nine on one call, I'm sure we'll learn

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Speaker 1: exactly the answers to all of these questions is that

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Speaker 1: the little boy wanted them to call nine to one one.

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Speaker 1: He's twelve years old, and he's very afraid, emaciated and

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Speaker 1: bound with duct tape.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what it sounds like. He tried to get out,

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Speaker 4: and that is a good strategy to go to a

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Speaker 4: neighbor's home and ask for emergency help in this situation.

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Speaker 1: This kid must have been so afraid to run to

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Speaker 1: a neighbor's and beg them to call nine one one.

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Speaker 1: Let's listen to more than n im on one call

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Speaker 1: to find out what else we can learn.

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Speaker 2: His ankles are taped up and he won't tell us why.

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Speaker 2: But he has duct taped around each ankle. Yeah, there's

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Speaker 2: sores around him. I think the good chance he's been.

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Speaker 2: Oh and he has been around his ankles. I mean

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Speaker 2: he's rists as well. Okay, this boy has been. This

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Speaker 2: kid has obviously been. I think he's been. He's been detained,

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Speaker 2: he's obviously covered in wounds.

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Speaker 3: Okay, let's get the paramedics headed over that way.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Oh that's a good idea too.

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Speaker 3: See has he told you where his mom or dad are?

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Speaker 2: Do you know where your mommy is?

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Speaker 3: I really got well, actually I don't know where my

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Speaker 3: mom is, but I do know where my dad is.

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Speaker 2: He's not here, don't know where Okay, no, he doesn't

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Speaker 2: see them. He usually knows.

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Speaker 3: Where his mom is, he doesn't know where his dad is.

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Speaker 1: So much to figure out right there, I want to

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Speaker 1: go to Shelley Asher. Listen to all these initials, B S,

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Speaker 1: N are in N why safe same dash Pe sex

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Speaker 1: assault forensic nurse examiner, I know that much. Forensic nurse

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Speaker 1: expert with Gay Joy Medical Forensics, extensive background and pediatric

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Speaker 1: physical and sex assault Shelby Asher, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. Did you hear the male nine on one

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Speaker 1: call or break down in tears saying he's got duct

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Speaker 1: type around each ankle, around his wists and there's sores

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Speaker 1: around them. That means in my mind, he's been duct

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Speaker 1: taped for a long time and now there are sores.

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Speaker 5: For me, Yeah, absolutely, Nancy, You know I wouldn't be

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Speaker 5: shocked it really. You know, there are some dependent factors depends,

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Speaker 5: like you said, how long they've been there, how tight

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Speaker 5: these were on his extremities. But yeah, generally i'd expect

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Speaker 5: to see, you know, some patterned injury, meaning ligature like

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Speaker 5: marks around in this case his anklden wrists. I definitely

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Speaker 5: expect to see abrasions lacerations due to you know, the

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Speaker 5: shearing of the skin in those areas.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by sharing of the skin, you know.

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Speaker 5: The top layer kind of rubbing off like an abrasion,

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Speaker 5: just from that friction of having that bound his ankles

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Speaker 5: and rest.

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Speaker 1: And just thinking about this little boy and his little

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Speaker 1: sister that was back in the home. Listen to more

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Speaker 1: of that nine one one you know where?

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Speaker 2: He just says he doesn't live around here. Does your

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Speaker 2: mom around here? Have you seen her lately? He doesn't

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Speaker 2: know where she is right now? What's your mom's name? Ruby? Frankie?

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Speaker 2: Ruby Frankie is his mom's name? F R A M. Katie,

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Speaker 2: He says, he what's happened to him as his fault.

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Speaker 3: God to hear they're coming to you as because they can. Okay, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: really want to make sure he's finding But I've got

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Speaker 3: him sitting here in my wife.

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Speaker 2: He got water and something to give him, something to

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Speaker 2: eat because he's really he's hungry and a young man,

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Speaker 2: he said him his hearing his stocking feet, so he escaped.

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Speaker 3: Does he have anything with him?

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Speaker 2: No, he's run a long sleeve shirt and shorts and

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Speaker 2: it's a way too big for him.

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Speaker 3: Can you tell me what color is that short?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 1: The ambulance is here joining me. Thank Goodness is a

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Speaker 1: forensic psychologist and consultant at psychology doctor dot com. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Dana Anderson, Doctor Dana, thank you so much for being

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Speaker 1: with us. It really struck me when you can hear

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Speaker 1: the little boy saying in the background, living separate, they're divorcing.

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Speaker 1: My dad is quote nowhere. He doesn't know where his

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Speaker 1: mom is. And even more striking, he says this is

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Speaker 1: He says, this is his fault. It's his fault that

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Speaker 1: he is starving with his bones poking out. It's his fault.

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Speaker 1: He's covered in wounds, and nobody's really telling us what

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Speaker 1: those wounds are. But I do know that there are

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Speaker 1: open sores associated with the duct tape on the wrists

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Speaker 1: and the ankles, and at one point I read across

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Speaker 1: his body, which I'm taking to mean the waist or

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Speaker 1: the chest. In some manner, I know those are our wounds.

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Speaker 1: Other accounts say open wounds. But he says it's all

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Speaker 1: his fault. Okay, you know what, if someone asks my

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Speaker 1: children right now, where is your mom? They would say

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Speaker 1: she's in the studio. I wouldn't have to tell them

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Speaker 1: where I am. They know where I am, and I

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Speaker 1: know where they are according to where I left them

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Speaker 1: this morning and according to Life three sixty, which I

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Speaker 1: monitor constantly. If someone asks my children, where's your dad

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Speaker 1: right now, they would say at his office. We know

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Speaker 1: where each other is supposed to be. So one he

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Speaker 1: doesn't know where his mom is, he doesn't know where

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Speaker 1: his dad is. He says dad is nowhere, and he

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Speaker 1: thinks all of this is his fault, his fault. You know.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me of batter women. So is their fault.

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Speaker 1: They're getting the hell beat out of them, sometimes the

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Speaker 1: life beat out of them. When I worked at the

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Speaker 1: Battered Women's Center, I remember when one woman got a

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Speaker 1: horrible beating that landed her in the hospital. Her husband

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Speaker 1: said he wanted Mexican for dinner. She made tacos and

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Speaker 1: he beat her because she made Enchilada's wait, he wanted tacos,

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Speaker 1: She made enchilada something like that, and she thought that

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Speaker 1: was her fault. So help me out here, doctor Dana.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's just heartbreaking to share that ninety one one

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Speaker 6: call and just putting myself in his position. That boy,

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Speaker 6: you know wash just like you said, like battered woman's syndrome,

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Speaker 6: just that battered syndromes.

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Speaker 7: Over and over.

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Speaker 6: They're being led to believe that it's their fault, that

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Speaker 6: there's something wrong with them, that something that they're doing

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Speaker 6: that they need to stop. And that's why they're being abused,

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Speaker 6: and that that they have to rationalize the punishment. And

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Speaker 6: then this is what you often hear in victims who

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Speaker 6: have just been beaten down emotionally and psychologically. Over time,

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Speaker 6: they tried to cope and rationalize and make sense of it,

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Speaker 6: so confusing to your brain why this is happening? So

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Speaker 6: they can say, well, it's my fault if I wouldn't

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Speaker 6: have done that, if I could have done better, but

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Speaker 6: I did this.

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Speaker 1: Why do people do that? Why do they think it's them, like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: my husband, shady, that's my fault because I'm overweight and

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Speaker 1: that was not It's not your fault that he did that.

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Speaker 6: If you isolate a victim for so long, and isolation

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Speaker 6: is what's happening in this case, and you only have

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Speaker 6: that authoritarians figure telling you, it's like brainwashing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I got a theory, doctor, Diana. What about this?

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Speaker 1: You can't accept that the person you love so much

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Speaker 1: is a monster? Okay, here's an example. A friend told

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Speaker 1: me about an acquaintance that shot his dog with a

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Speaker 1: bb gun repeatedly, and the dog kept crawling toward the owner.

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Speaker 1: The dog. That's the only thing the dog knew. This

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Speaker 1: is who feeds me. This is where I sleep, this

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Speaker 1: is my I guess master. And even though the guy

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Speaker 1: was shooting him with a BB gun, the dog would

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Speaker 1: crawl toward the owner. And I've never understood that. And

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Speaker 1: when I'm thinking about this, how awful it must be

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Speaker 1: for a little child baby to accept the mom has

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Speaker 1: left me alone, the mom is starving me, the mom

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Speaker 1: bound me. I don't know where she is. I don't

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Speaker 1: know where my dad is. And so they blame themselves,

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Speaker 1: because sometimes that's easier to blame yourself than to accept

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Speaker 1: your whole world's falling apart. The one person you love

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Speaker 1: hates you.

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Speaker 6: It's so terribly conflicting because this is also the mother,

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Speaker 6: the person that's supposed to be nurturing or has nurtured

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Speaker 6: you at times. This is the person that's supposed to

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Speaker 6: feed you and has before. They need that person they have.

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Speaker 6: They're reliant on them, as damies or children are on

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Speaker 6: their parents.

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Speaker 1: Poor kid, this whole world falling apart. Well, that little

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Speaker 1: boy says, my sisters still back in this home. So

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Speaker 1: the cops finally show up and do something. Instead of

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Speaker 1: looking in the window and see the children cowering and

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Speaker 1: do nothing, take a listen to our friends a Ku TV.

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Speaker 8: The neighbor clearly moved to tears and.

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Speaker 2: This boy has been. This kid is obviously I think

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Speaker 2: he's been. He's entertained, he's obviously covered in wounds.

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Speaker 8: Once officers arrived, this is what they discovered inside Hildebrand's home.

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Speaker 9: There's aside the garage downstairs underneath the grudges.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, some of that audio you just heard is one

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Speaker 8: law enforcement appeared to be trying to find some of

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Speaker 8: the boys' siblings.

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Speaker 1: Okay, who is this person? Hilda Brant? So Emily askov

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Speaker 1: let me understand this. Jodie Hildebrant, we believe was a

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Speaker 1: marriage counselor to vlogger mom with over two million followers,

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Speaker 1: Ruby Frankie. She then became a friend, moved into the

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Speaker 1: Frankie home for a period of time, and then it

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Speaker 1: looks like became her co host on Connections, a kind

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Speaker 1: of an offshoot of Eight Passengers. Eight Passengers was Ruby

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Speaker 1: Frankie's show for lack of a Better World.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so more recently, that's the YouTube channel that

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Speaker 4: they've been running, and they have an Instagram together called

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Speaker 4: Moms of Truth.

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Speaker 1: Oh Dear Lord in Heaven, Okay, I'll tell you what

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Speaker 1: I know about this friend. Co anchored Jesse Hilda Brant

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Speaker 1: speaks out. This is Jody Hildebrant's niece. I want you

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Speaker 1: guys to take a listen if you can stand it

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Speaker 1: to our cut seventy eight. This is Jody Hilda Brant,

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Speaker 1: the marriage counselor, describing what happened to her listen. I

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Speaker 1: was physically.

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Speaker 10: I was forced to sleep outside in the snow. I was,

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Speaker 10: like I said, isolated from up to twelve hours a

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Speaker 10: day if someone wanted, if someone spoke to me directly,

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Speaker 10: if I wasn't wearing duct tape on my mouth, I

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Speaker 10: had to just stare at them and not respond. Because

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Speaker 10: she also had systems of people that would report back

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Speaker 10: to her if I broke any of these rules. And

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Speaker 10: her whole thing, which is deeply darkly ironic, is that

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Speaker 10: everything is stems from shame, and how horrible shame.

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Speaker 1: Is, and that.

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Speaker 10: All of the reasons, like all of mental illness, all ticks,

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Speaker 10: so like ocd's addiction, everything stems from shame, which is

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Speaker 10: just horrifying because she is the greatest perpetuator of shame.

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Speaker 1: And this is who Ruby Frankie has with her children.

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Speaker 1: Also on our panel is executive director of Utah Crime

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Speaker 1: Victims Legal Clanet. It's a nonprofit who represents his victims.

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Speaker 1: Former County Prosecutor Heidi Nestle is with us. Heidi, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. So the children

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Speaker 1: are starved, they are covered in open wounds, they are

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Speaker 1: duct taped at least at the risk and the angles

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Speaker 1: end quote across the body. The little boy says, dad's divorcing.

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Speaker 1: He's quote nowhere. I don't know where mommy is. And

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Speaker 1: they're in this home with this woman who's I guess

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Speaker 1: her theory is to shame people into a certain behavior.

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Speaker 1: What happened? I know there have been many calls to

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Speaker 1: this home. Why are the children still there?

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Speaker 11: That's an excellent question. I mean, these are the most

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Speaker 11: serious physical charges, physical abuse charges that we have in Utah.

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Speaker 11: But they've been charged with and so it makes sense

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Speaker 11: that this did not just happen overnight. This abuse was

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Speaker 11: going on for a long time, and it does call

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Speaker 11: into question, you know, who saw what, especially as far

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Speaker 11: as Matt Hildegrand is concerned. The reason she's been charged

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Speaker 11: for the exact same crime is because in Utah we

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Speaker 11: have accomplished liability that if you aid or encourage someone

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Speaker 11: to commit a crime, that's as if you're committing the

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Speaker 11: crime yourself. And so it's appropriate that she's been charged

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Speaker 11: and likely will be held accountable for these atrocious crime.

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Speaker 1: You know, Jason Jensen is with me. I agree with

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Speaker 1: everything Heidi Nestell just said. Jason Jensen Jensen private investigator, owner,

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Speaker 1: Jensen Private Investigations, co founder of the Cold Case Coalition,

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Speaker 1: and you can find him at Jensenprivate Investigations dot com.

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Speaker 1: Don't you see a similar transaction happening. You've got the

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Speaker 1: adult niece of Jodah Hildebrandt saying I wasn't allowed to

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Speaker 1: speak to anybody, had duct tape on my mouth, and

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Speaker 1: now we see these children bound in duct tape? What

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Speaker 1: about that? Jason Jensen, I'm not surprised. When can you

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Speaker 1: sound so calm? I'm just curious. I'm not surprised. I'm

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Speaker 1: surprised as hell, and I see it every day. But

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Speaker 1: the hypocrisy of this woman being a we've logged to look.

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Speaker 1: I do the best I can with the children I do,

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Speaker 1: and I know I'm not an expert, and it would

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Speaker 1: be a cold ay in Hgublel. But I try to

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Speaker 1: give parenting advice. I want people to give me parenting advice,

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Speaker 1: and her children are duct taped, they're starved. Jason Jensen, Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm shocked. Where's the outrage?

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Speaker 9: Probably because I'm not gonna disrupt your show by personally

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Speaker 9: being emotional about it.

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Speaker 1: But what makes me so better about you? You're trying

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Speaker 1: to save crime stories.

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Speaker 7: Okay, go ahead, exactly.

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Speaker 9: So basically, the reason why I say I'm not surprised

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Speaker 9: is this came out of somewhere in her path. It

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Speaker 9: wasn't just something they invented. So clearly this is something

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Speaker 9: that she's been cultivating and using in her path. I

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Speaker 9: guess therapy sessions, which clearly is you know, in my definition,

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Speaker 9: cruel and unusual for what she's using against her own

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Speaker 9: family members alone. You know, the Frankie family, What you

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Speaker 9: put these kids through is cruel, It is torturous, and

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Speaker 9: it is criminal, So it's going to be hard for

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Speaker 9: them to justify. And then you know, for what Ruby

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Speaker 9: Frankie tried to raise in her hearing as the excuse

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Speaker 9: for is abhorrent.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, you're not gonna believe

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Speaker 1: what you're gonna hear next. It's not just Ruby Frankie,

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Speaker 1: It's not just Jadie Hildebrant. The system how to hand

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Speaker 1: in this. Brad Wats is joining me. Listen to this.

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Speaker 1: Brad Our Cut sixty sixty one from KSL.

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Speaker 12: Records reveal officers responded to Frankie's home in Springville fifteen

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Speaker 12: times between March twenty nineteen and last week. In April

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Speaker 12: twenty two, records showed DCFS asked Springville PD to drive

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Speaker 12: through the neighborhood. In September last year, Frankie's oldest daughter

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Speaker 12: asked police to check on her younger siblings after hearing

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Speaker 12: from neighbors that Frankie had left them home alone in.

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Speaker 1: Springville for days.

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Speaker 12: According to police records, the kids were seen through the

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Speaker 12: windows but would not answer the door, but neighbors told

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Speaker 12: officers Ruby Frankie would leave her children home for extended

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Speaker 12: periods of time and go to Saint George to spend

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Speaker 12: time with her friend, Jody. Hildebrandt's records show police went

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Speaker 12: back to the Springville home four more times after that

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Speaker 12: to assist DCFS.

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Speaker 1: But nothing was done, and when school members tried to

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Speaker 1: speak to them. Nothing was done, nothing at all, so

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Speaker 1: the children continued to starve and be bound. That's not all.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at KSL. This is

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Speaker 1: Shelby Lofton.

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Speaker 13: Neighbors told me everyone noticed the Frankie's windows being covered

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Speaker 13: in paper earlier this year. We drove by the Frankie's

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Speaker 13: house today. No one looked like they were home, but

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Speaker 13: the front door, which looks like it's cracked, is covered

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Speaker 13: in several strips of black tape. Neighbors told us Kevin Frankie,

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Speaker 13: Ruby's husband moved out of the family home about one

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Speaker 13: year ago. Kevin Frankie is now back at that address.

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Speaker 1: So Brad Watts, licensed professional counselor, certified sex Offender Treatment provider,

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Speaker 1: specializes in sibling sex abuse and I want to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about Reby Frankie's clients as all our children's

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Speaker 1: thought that they're abusing each other. He's the author of

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Speaker 1: Sibling Sex Abuse, America's Silent Epidemic and you can find

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Speaker 1: me at Brad Watts LPC dot com. Brad, what do

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Speaker 1: you make of the fact that police didn't help defects

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Speaker 1: didn't help the school detective and counselors. They didn't help.

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Speaker 1: All they were and the neighbors, they all noticed, they

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Speaker 1: all knew something was wrong, but they did nothing.

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Speaker 7: Nancy, this is just mind blowing. I mean, one of

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Speaker 7: the first things that popped out to me is the

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Speaker 7: fact that they didn't do their due diligence on anything.

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Speaker 7: It's a complete failure. And I would think just anybody

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Speaker 7: kind of around or familiar you make those calls and

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Speaker 7: then you go in and investigate in the home, and

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Speaker 7: the fact that all these different opportunities that they drop

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Speaker 7: the ball on this is just just really horrific. And

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Speaker 7: you know, we see the results with the kids. I

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Speaker 7: can't help but wonder, with all these different calls, all

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Speaker 7: these different people, you know, you know, seeing red flags

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Speaker 7: from the family, why in the world this wasn't investigated.

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Speaker 7: So I'd really be interested to hear what their excuses

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Speaker 7: for this.

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Speaker 1: Is, denying the children's food and care, leaving them alone

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Speaker 1: for days. If this woman wasn't famous, you don't think

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Speaker 1: she would have been arrested by now. All you have

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Speaker 1: to do is listen to her on her eight passengers

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Speaker 1: are now the new connections with our hitch person, Joey Hildebrant,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to Really Frank on eight Passengers.

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Speaker 14: I just got a text message from Eve's teacher and

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Speaker 14: she said that Eve did not pack a lunch today

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Speaker 14: and can I bring a lunch over to the school.

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Speaker 14: This happens quite often when you're having raising children, because

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Speaker 14: I know that her teacher is uncomfortable with her being

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Speaker 14: hungry and not having a lunch, and it would ease

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Speaker 14: her discomfort if I came to the school with lunch.

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Speaker 14: But I responded and just said Eve is responsible for

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Speaker 14: making her lunches in the morning, and she actually told

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Speaker 14: me she did pack a lunch. So the natural outcome

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Speaker 14: is she's just going to need to be hungry and

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Speaker 14: hopefully nobody gives her food, and nobody steps in and

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Speaker 14: gives her a lunch, and my.

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Speaker 1: Kids are literally starving. I hesitate to say.

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Speaker 15: This because it's going to sound like I'm like a

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Speaker 15: mean barbarian.

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Speaker 16: But I told the kids, I said, I'm not even

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Speaker 16: going to let you eat breakfast until you get your

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Speaker 16: chores done.

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Speaker 15: You're the mother and she is the child. This is

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Speaker 15: not a relationship where you trust her. That's not your

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Speaker 15: job as a mother. In fact, your job as a

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Speaker 15: mother is to constantly be scrutinizing her to constantly be

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Speaker 15: judging her choices against principles.

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Speaker 17: That's Ruby Frankie speaking on a podcast late last year

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Speaker 17: for Connections, a life coaching platform founded by her business

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Speaker 17: partner Jody Hildebrand.

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Speaker 1: Then you're hearing our forensic KUTV And the little girl

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Speaker 1: that wasn't having any food that day was six years old. Okay.

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Speaker 1: I was also struck when she refused to let some

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Speaker 1: of the children have Santa on Christmas morning. Take a

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Speaker 1: list now cut twenty eight.

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Speaker 18: So we sat down with them and we let them

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Speaker 18: know how deeply sorrowful we've been because of the choices

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Speaker 18: that they've been making and how it's affected their teachers

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Speaker 18: at school, it's affected their peers, it's affected in our home, the.

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Speaker 6: Siblings, and we just laid it out very clear.

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Speaker 16: And we told them that this year they are not

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Speaker 16: going to be visited by Santa. We let them know

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Speaker 16: that Christmas morning, therefore, older siblings will be getting Christmas

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Speaker 16: presents to open and that they will have the gift

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Speaker 16: of love from their dad.

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Speaker 1: And I, yeah, wonder why he left, But that said,

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Speaker 1: he didn't just leave her. He left his children to

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Speaker 1: starve in a hell hole. Ruby frank actually appears in

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Speaker 1: court and astonishingly blames her own children for their suffering,

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Speaker 1: even claiming that our children watch porn at age three

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Speaker 1: and that one child molested many other children sex molested them.

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Speaker 1: Let's start friends at crime online.

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Speaker 17: Shocking stories continue to follow Ruby Frankie and Jody Hildebrant

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Speaker 17: as family members speak out and share their personal frustrations

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Speaker 17: with the women. But the most shocking thing so far

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Speaker 17: has to be from Ruby Frankie herself. The Daily Mail

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Speaker 17: reports that in court, Ruby Frankie sobbed as she appeared

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Speaker 17: for a shelter hearing for four minor children to determine custody.

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Speaker 17: Speaking between sobs, the mother of six claims that one

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Speaker 17: of her minor children sexually abused their sibling and molested

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Speaker 17: several other family members and children in the neighborhood for years.

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Speaker 1: I find that really difficult to believe, and I'm going

431
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: to go to our expert Brad Watts, who has written

432
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: Sibling Sex Abuse America's Silent Epidemic. If this has been

433
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: going on for years, it's very hard for me to

434
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: believe that a neighbor had not reported it. I would

435
00:27:55,119 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: be lying on the police HQ steps screaming for Joe

436
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: if a neighbor attacked one of my children, a neighbor child, Yeah,

437
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: I don't believe this for one minute, especially given the

438
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: other circumstances that the children are starved now with a

439
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: duct tape and have open source.

440
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, Nancy, Absolutely, there's all kinds of red flags that

441
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 7: just incongruent with everything in the home. Yeah, it doesn't

442
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 7: appear in any way that that would happen in my opinion,

443
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 7: just because to one of the red flags to be

444
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 7: is a three year old looking at porn. So she's

445
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 7: presenting it as her three year old child is seeking

446
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 7: out porn. Well, a three year old's is not able

447
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 7: to seek out porn on their own, they would come

448
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 7: across it or should it be shown to them. And

449
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 7: then just with the strict abusive nature in her home,

450
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 7: how is that happening And how is I agree with you,

451
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 7: how is a neighbor if he's doing it to all

452
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 7: these family members, all these different neighborhood kids. In my experience,

453
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 7: it's reported, it's talked about, it's brought up, and then

454
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 7: she's just keeping that, you know, to herself, and all that.

455
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 9: I don't buy it.

456
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 7: I just don't buy it at all.

457
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense to me. Heidi Nestel is

458
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: joining us on the Utah Crime Victim's Legal Clinic, And

459
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: all the years I have prosecuted and investigated child molestation,

460
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: I've never in my life heard of a three year

461
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: old going to the TV and finding porn and watching it.

462
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: That is a lie.

463
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 11: Heidi, You're absolutely correct. I mean, as your panelist just said,

464
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 11: it either didn't happen, or the child was presented with

465
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 11: it or exposed to it by someone who is older

466
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 11: and can make those kind of searches. This just doesn't

467
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 11: make sense. I don't the legal argument to say, you know,

468
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 11: I'm absolved from responsibility or my responsibility is mitigated because

469
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 11: there was this sex abuse going into the home. That

470
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 11: doesn't make sense legally to me make that argument, because

471
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 11: as the parent, you have a legal and moral responsibility

472
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 11: to protect your children, and in Utah we have mandatory

473
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 11: report laws. So if this had been going on, the

474
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 11: parent is responsible at some level, and so it doesn't

475
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 11: make sense legally for her to be making this argument

476
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 11: if anything at aggravates the situation as opposed to mitigating

477
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 11: her liability.

478
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace. I want you to hear

479
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: what happened when a school resource officer attempted to speak

480
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: to the children. Take a US an hour cut seventy six.

481
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 12: A school resource officer attempting twice to talk to the

482
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 12: children wants unsuccessfully at school and again later at home

483
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 12: when he.

484
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 2: Asked to talk to them to the mom and the children,

485
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 2: they all went in the house, locked the doors, and

486
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 2: would not respond to any of our attempts for contact.

487
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 5: It's very concerning when we hear that there were this

488
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 5: many people that sounded the alarm that there might have

489
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 5: been something happening at this home.

490
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: So you're here from our friends at GMA, So I'm

491
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: not sure how this goes down. The school resource officer

492
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: says he tried to speak to them, but Ruby Frank

493
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: and her children all went in the home and just

494
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: locked the door. That the children went silent when he

495
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: tried to speak to them at school, So what they

496
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: just drop it? Just so okay, yeah, I can't talk

497
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: to them. Never mind, that's overcase closed. Also, the windows

498
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: are covered with paper, no one can get to them.

499
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: They're locked in the home and no parent is home.

500
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: But I find it really hard to believe. Throw this

501
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: to you, Jason Jensen, that the school resource officer just

502
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: dropped it because the mom wouldn't speak.

503
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 9: It's pretty well not uncommon. I mean typically hear in

504
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 9: Utah when a resource officer or a police officer tries

505
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 9: to interview a child at the school, the child does

506
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 9: have that ability to refuse to speak to the officer

507
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 9: about something at home. Oftentimes is because the child is

508
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 9: instructed not to engage with any form of police officer

509
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 9: or something like that while it's school. So you would

510
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 9: think that that would pose a red flag for the investigator.

511
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 9: But I've read many of reports where that's actually occurred here,

512
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 9: but they.

513
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: Just let it go. Guys, I want you to hear

514
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: more of this mommy vlogger with millions of people taking

515
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: our advice, Ruby Frank you take a listen to our

516
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: cut ninety five.

517
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 16: We are going to a movie on your shoes?

518
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 9: What is it?

519
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: What does it even matter? If someone asked me if

520
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: I wanted to.

521
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 15: Go to a movie, I wouldn't.

522
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: Ask what is it? Run and get your shoes or

523
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: you're gonna not go.

524
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 16: Hurry everyone run, Hey, this is Ruby.

525
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: I was wondering is Brooke available to babysit.

526
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 10: Sorry, Oh my gosh, that sounds amazing.

527
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 15: What a good idea for spring break.

528
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: I'm really sorry.

529
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 16: I am not taking Eve unless you come and give

530
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 16: me a huge apology.

531
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: It just hurts me to hear the little baby. I mean,

532
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: you can tell she's what would you say, Jackie four

533
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: or five? Maybe if that crying saying mommy, I'm sorry.

534
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: And now listen to this ninety.

535
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 15: Six you can give me a hug and you come

536
00:33:58,960 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 15: say you're sorry.

537
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 2: No again where I can pay attention.

538
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: It was not very thankful of you.

539
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 16: I was excited and I told you to go get

540
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 16: on your shoes and your jacket to see a movie

541
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 16: and you should say okay and be grateful instead.

542
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 9: Of well what movie? Well I don't know, let.

543
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: Me think about it.

544
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 16: That's not very grateful and I'm not going to take

545
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 16: a girl who's not grateful. Can you show some more gratitude?

546
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: Okay, give me a big hick. I mean, is that

547
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: common to force your victim to apologize to you? Just

548
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: trying to figure that.

549
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 7: Out, Brad Watts, No, I mean this is it's so

550
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 7: hard to listen to Nancy. I mean, just you know

551
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 7: that these children in the way she treats them, And

552
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 7: you know, I keep thinking that with my therapist eyes,

553
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 7: just this family and these kids and how much they

554
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 7: need to be in therapy and all that they're they're

555
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 7: going to have to work through. And again, kind of

556
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 7: going back to your point, you know, where's dad, you know,

557
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 7: fighting for these kids?

558
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: I think he needs to be behind bars too. He's responsible.

559
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: You can't just drive off and leave your children with

560
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: a demon from hell and then act like you had

561
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: no responsibility at all. So what she is brought into

562
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: court and by the way, isn't it true back to

563
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: Emily Ashcraft asl is that her or Hildebrandt that claim

564
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 1: that they have an ailment and they're on the sick

565
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 1: unit where they get better treatment.

566
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 4: I think they've both had some medical issues since they've

567
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 4: been in jail, so I think both of them, but

568
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 4: most recently hildebrand apparently had some significant medical issues that

569
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 4: was filed in court documents. What issue it was vague

570
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 4: as to what those were.

571
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 1: I bet it was. Both of them amazingly get medical

572
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: issues when they go behind bars and they end up

573
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: in a much better position in the sick bay. Guys,

574
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,919
Speaker 1: I want you to hear more of what Ruby frank did,

575
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: as if she hasn't victimized her children enough, take a

576
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: listen our cut eighty one our Forensic Crime online.

577
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 17: After years of watching Ruby Frankie promote herself as an

578
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 17: expert at parenting, family members now feel it's time to

579
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 17: speak out and set the record straight. To that end,

580
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 17: Frankie's sister in law, Cynthia told The Daily Mail, quote,

581
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 17: I don't think she should get out on bail. I

582
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 17: do believe the allegations against her. After all of this,

583
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 17: she should be put away forever if convicted. Cynthia is

584
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 17: the wife of Frankie's older brother, Allan, and she said

585
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 17: she had no idea what was going on behind closed doors.

586
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 17: She said, quote, I don't know what to believe from her.

587
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 17: I think she's lying. She's putting the blame on her

588
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 17: two kids to validate what she did to her children.

589
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 17: At this point, I think she'll say anything to save herself.

590
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: To Shelby asked her, joining us a forensic nurse examiner,

591
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: how often is it that you I see children victimized

592
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: while everybody stands by and twiddles their thumbs.

593
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you know, not men obviously with children, it

594
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 5: does take years and years for them to come forward

595
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 5: in regards to sexual assault. You know, that's because mostly

596
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 5: of fear. They are taught to believe that nobody's going

597
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 5: to believe them, nobody's going to listen, nobody cares.

598
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 6: You know.

599
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 5: As far as sibling sexual assault, it is one of

600
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 5: the least reported, so it is hard to establish and

601
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 5: understand the prevalence.

602
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 6: But if that were happening, you know.

603
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 5: The question that comes into play and that comes to

604
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 5: mind is, you know, if this is happening, where are

605
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,720
Speaker 5: they learning this behavior from? You know, are they repeating

606
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 5: behavior that they've experienced. You know, often children do reenact

607
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 5: what they've experienced.

608
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: I'm very curious. Heidi Nestel is joining US executive director

609
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: you Taugh Crime Victims Legal Clinic, and you can find

610
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: her at Utah Victims Clinic. Heidi, I think it would

611
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: be a simple matter of getting the other children to testify,

612
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: especially the older daughter who was so worried about her

613
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: siblings she called police to go check on them. There's

614
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: a reason for that, You're.

615
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 11: Right, and you can be assured that the children are

616
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 11: going to be interviewed. That's standard practice in criminal investigations

617
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 11: in Utah. We use a children's Justice center system where

618
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 11: I'm confident that each of the children will be interviewed

619
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 11: by a forensic interviewer and so hopefully we'll get now

620
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 11: they'll have the opportunity to talk about what's happened to them,

621
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 11: how they've been raised, and the different potentially abusive scenarios

622
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 11: that they've had to endure. So this investigation is going

623
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 11: to take a while, but assuredly these children will be

624
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 11: interviewed and have the opportunity to speak about what's happened

625
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 11: to them.

626
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the

627
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: mistreatment of the children of Ruby Frankie and the husband

628
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: Kevin Frankie, or any knowledge regarding Jody Hildebrandt, please call

629
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: better late than Never tipline two five one eight four

630
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: seven two two zero two repeat two five one eight

631
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:33,959
Speaker 1: four seven two two zero two. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend,