WEBVTT - Linda Perry 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.360 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob left That's Podcast. My 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:16.599 guest today is Linda Perry. I saw her speak recently 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:19.560 at Canadian Music Week and she was speaking the truth 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:24.239 when everybody else blokes smoke up wannabe's asses. Linda, good 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.800 to be here, Hi, Bob Okay. One of the things 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:30.880 you said it really impressed me in in Toronto was 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:34.800 you're looking for rock stars and you didn't see any 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:38.080 rock stars in the room. Defined from my audience what 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:42.760 a rock star is for me personally, everybody has their 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.800 own version of a rock star, but for me, Patti 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:50.120 Smith was a rock star, Keith Richards, Mick Jagger, Bowie 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:55.920 kiss Um, Chrissie Hines, Janice Joplin. To me, a rock 0:00:56.000 --> 0:01:01.000 star is somebody who you just know they're something. They 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:04.479 walk a different beat, there's something different about the way 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:08.640 they talk. Um Jesus was a rock star, you know, 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:13.440 and Um. But you get, you know, attracted to this 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:17.720 person and want to know more about them because on 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.119 stage or off stage, they're kind of the same. They 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:26.000 have you know, I know, like for Freddie Mercury, when 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.039 he's on stage, he's more flamboyant and more you know, 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.800 big personality, right, and from what I've heard that when 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:35.560 he's not on stage, he's still he has a smaller personality. 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:39.240 But no matter what, he's a star. So I feel 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.880 like we have a lot of celebrities, we have a 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:46.679 lot of kids that are influencers, but as far as 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:51.440 rock stars, I'm I find it very hard and very 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.720 rare to find. Okay, So why do you think there 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.080 are a fewer rock stars today than there were before? 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:05.080 Because the generation sans Um after the nineties was the 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.160 last rock star. In fact, what's funny about the nineties 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:12.320 is it was about the biggest rock stars, but it 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:15.760 was an anti rock star. Well we're talking about Kurt 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:20.000 Cobain after here here be in music Settle exactly. But 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.840 those Kurt Cobain was a full on rocks you know, Cornell, 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:30.600 full on Pearl Jam everybody. And we had Um, Courtney Love, 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:35.200 you know, so many incredible bands and they were full 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.320 on rock stars even though they anti rock stars. Well 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.400 I just remember this that story. Nirvana was in South 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:45.720 America and uh they were there, Courtney Love was there 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:51.520 and Courtney says, listen, we're gonna take the limo. No 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.200 it's not punk, No, one's gonna say says, no, I 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.880 can't take the limo. You know, but I think that 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:09.000 what happened there is it introduced unfortunately. Um, hey, hey, Bob, 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:12.440 Steven Larry, you can get on stage and being a 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:16.760 band now because you can wear your board shorts. Uh. 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.560 You know, you could basically wake up in the morning 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:22.280 and go on stage and that's the way you can look. 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.280 And you don't have to be a flashy dresser. You 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.200 don't have to have pizzas, you know, you don't have 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.760 to have any of that. Because Nirvana and the grun 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:37.040 scene basically said the you know, Joe Schmo is okay 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.520 to be on the stage because that's what they are promoting, 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:43.120 like the anti rock star. And but what's funny about 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.480 those those guys were the most rock star guys because 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.440 they had so much you know, there's a lot of attitude. 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.800 There was like this fixation to not be rock stars, 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.320 which made them rock stars. Okay, how do you compare 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.960 that to the punk era of the late seventies. Well, 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:02.120 the you know, as far as my I mean, let's 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:07.640 see and this late seventies and I mean I'm eleven, 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:13.000 twelve years old, and then everybody picks up. You know, 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.840 that was sort of a different thing because Seattle, these 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:20.560 were accomplished musicians. Yeah, I don't, I don't. There's you 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:24.200 can whatever you want with this conversation and this one statement, 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.800 there's nothing punk about the Seattle scene, So I don't 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.480 know where that. Okay, it was a similar thing there, 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:34.440 but we won't go no, no, no no. It was 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.320 not a similar thing musically at all, and vibe wise, 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:39.680 it was not punk rock. I remember punk. I was 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:42.039 a punk rocker. I was ten when, you know, I 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.600 listened to the Ramones, but I grew up, you know 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.880 with that whole scene. I mean I was at the 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.320 mosh pits. I broke my ankles maching, you know, with 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.600 no shoes on. I mean I had razor blades and 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.880 I cut my arm. I mean, not full on. But 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.719 what I'm just trying to say. The music compared to 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:04.960 that completely different, as you know. But the attitude to 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.200 me was very different because punk rock didn't give a 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.240 shit about anything, and it seemed like the whole grunge 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.880 scene they did give a ship about being seen as 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.440 rock stars and this other whole thing. They wanted to 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:21.280 really perceive that we are not rock stars. We are normal, 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:25.240 but they're but they're not. They weren't at all, you know, 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:29.080 at least punk rockers. They were down in the dungeons, playing, 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.320 you know, in these crappy fucking venues with a bunch 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:37.560 of spit all over them, sweaty kids and jamming out. 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.400 I mean, they didn't fucking care at all, you know. 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.880 So it's to me that's not the same thing. Okay. 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:46.440 Uh would we say being a rock star is the 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:50.520 same as being charismatic? Absolutely? Um, I think there's a 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.560 lot of charisma obviously and rock stars. That's part of 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:59.320 the problem is I feel like we are not dealing 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:07.000 with that hype of swagger. You know, it's sexy, It's 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.400 sexy in a whole other way. It's like, you know, 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:15.240 Jamie Chaplin was sexy, but there was nothing sexy about her, 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:25.320 you know. And um, you know Patti Smith, Stevie Nicks, 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:28.960 like Blondie. I mean, they were so cool and like 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:33.520 there's a whole other sexiness going on because they're powerful women, 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.680 or at least portraying them. And what I'm having an 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.920 issue with is a lot of um, you know, Beyonce 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.599 is a rock star, of course, Pink is you know, 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.159 there's there's rock stars. I'm not sure I would. Well, 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:51.479 she's a different type of rock star. She's like, you know, 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:55.440 she's got Pink's very very thoughtful about what she's doing 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:57.520 in her life. I guess, you know, I guess for me. 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:00.160 And this is a small item, the way she does 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.960 the acrobatic act at every show to the point where 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:05.400 it's a feature of the show. If you go back 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.760 to you know, Alice Cooper, every show was different, Yeah, 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.360 but it was. But everybody does that. I mean that 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:14.440 the the whole thing is Again, that would be a 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:19.280 perfect example of when you're great, you can I mean 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.280 I toured with Neil Young for two months and every 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:27.360 single show was incredibly different. And he had booker team, 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:29.560 the mg S at the time, and I was sitting 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.320 there at that you know, at the stage just every 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.320 show watching him. I was just like, oh my god, 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.760 Neil Young, right, and every solo was different. And then 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.760 and then they would just watch him and then you 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.320 could tell he's, oh, he's gonna he's not gonna do 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.640 the normal and then he had flipped and they would 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:50.440 be right there with him. And for me, what that was, 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:57.240 it's like great, incredibly gifted, you know, sense sensitive musicians 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:01.760 that are paying attention to the artist and the singer 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.000 and the song and they know by just a feeling 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:07.920 an instinct what's going to happen. And the fact that 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:12.520 Neil Young felt compelled to drive himself every single night 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.520 to be a better you know, make a better solo 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.240 or you know what, I'm gonna take the solo on 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:21.320 piano instead. I mean, it was so incredible watching him. 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.320 We are not dealing with that level of artist anymore. 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.640 Let's go drill down right there though. Um Bob Dylan 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.640 is very much a rock star, but he's on tour now, 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.880 it has been for essentially thirty years rearranging the songs. 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:42.440 How do you feel about that? Well, I feel if 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:48.160 you're going to rearrange the songs to bring more honesty 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:52.840 back into your voice and into the song, because after what, 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.200 you know, thirty years, singing the same song can get 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:01.600 quite you know, So if you have to do that 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:06.160 and to put more life back in to reignite the 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.360 flame of how you sung that song and the energy, 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.520 I'm all for it. But if you're doing it to 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:17.559 be relevant or follow anything that's going on in today's time, 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:23.360 I'm very disappointed in that he's definitely doing making interesting 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.400 for himself, which I applaud, But to what degree do 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:31.480 you owe a debt to your audience? Well, and what 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:37.360 do degree does the audience owe the person that they're idolizing, 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.960 you know, the space to create? Well, I guess the 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.120 fascinating story and this goes back to when you were 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.680 very young. Neil Young had a huge hit with Heart 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.440 of Gold. Okay, after that was a hit in the 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.040 spring of seventy two, he went on on arena tour. 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.320 The ultimate album was called Time Fades Away, but he 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:57.400 stood up with an electric band and didn't play any 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:02.320 of the sawt stuff from Harvest. Uh. Now, it's very interesting. 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:04.520 He has a long history of going his own way. 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.920 He can really still sell tickets. Were Crosby, Seals and 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.320 Nash who are disparate at this particular point in time. 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.440 They can't sell anywhere near that number of tickets, right, 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.160 And I think that's because people see Neil Young as 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.880 a real rock star doing whatever he wants. But you know, 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.880 especially with a lot of older people touring, would they 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:28.480 have some level of expectation if they're paying they want Okay, well, 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.320 you didn't tell me about that part. If it's like 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.679 you know, legacy artists going back on on tour, I say, 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:37.559 don't try to play as a bunch of new songs 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:41.559 that aren't even equivalent to the level of the older 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:47.320 songs that people know, because it's not like, honestly, honestly, 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.800 it's not like anybody's gonna go, oh yeah, I'm gonna 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.800 go buy that new Crosby Steals and Nash album. You know, 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.800 it's not gonna happen. They're gonna want the older songs. 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.480 And unfortunately, that to me is where yes, it would 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:03.120 probably very you know, upsetting to those artists. Like if 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:05.080 I had to go if I were an artist still 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.960 and I had to go out and perform for an 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.280 oblongs you know, songs till I was seventy eight years 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.120 old and nobody wanted to hear anything new, I had 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.040 to say, I'd be bummed out. But the truth is, 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.040 if no one wants to hear anything knew that you have, 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.640 you know, have to say, that means you haven't had 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.520 anything to say in quite a while. And the only 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:27.800 songs that stood out are the ones that you pushed yourself, 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.520 you know, to make money. To go on a tour 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.040 and do all these things. But what happens is that 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.640 you can never get rid of the artist. Bob, We're 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.480 always going to be an artist, and so Crosby Seals 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:42.480 and ash just you know, it's still gonna want to go. Hey, guys, 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.280 come on, let's do it. Let's write a great song. 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.760 Let's try to beat you know, our old you know, oldies, 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:50.480 and they're gonna try to go out there and they 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.080 might fool themselves into believing that they are and you 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:56.240 know what, and they possibly could, but no one's going 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.640 to hear it because it's for the first time and 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:02.679 we spent a decade in twenty or two decades listening 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:04.840 to these incredible songs that have been a soundtrack to 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:08.080 our lives. You know. But let's let's go deeper on 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.080 one of those points. Let's assume you've had a period 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.959 of hits, six or seven well known slumps. Do you 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:18.400 think the people ten or twenty years later are capable 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:22.600 of writing another hit? Absolutely, I absolutely do. I feel 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.840 that the problem happens when people want to be relevant, 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.960 when they start thinking that they need to write a 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:35.040 song that sounds like today, And the truth is Nobody 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:38.920 wants a song from Neil Young that sounds like today. 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:43.120 They want Neil Young, Um, Carly Simon, they want Carly, 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:45.559 they want Dolly. I mean when I worked with Dolly, 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:49.719 for example, I just took her songs and recreated them 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.600 in a very organic way that I thought, what would 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.720 Dolly do right now if she had total control of this? 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.400 And I just simplified everything. And then the songs we 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.560 wrote were awesome. We wrote six songs in two days 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.840 because we weren't trying to chase anything. We just it 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.040 was just Dolly and Linda and and that's those were 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.720 the songs that Lynda and Dolly wrote. And Dolly was like, 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:14.400 these are to me equally as powerful as my songs 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.240 and and you know, my my other material. And I said, 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.440 I agree, and I told her, I said, but the 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:23.920 thing is, we've had years to live with Joline and 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:26.439 all these other songs. These songs are not going to 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.880 be accepted as well, but we don't care because they're 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.160 not going to have the level of you know, intimacy 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:35.839 with these songs as they have with your other stuff. 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.920 And that's what it comes down to. But when people 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:43.840 want to be relevant and start being modern. It's to me, 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.880 that's a buzz kill. I agree with you, but today's 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:51.000 marketplace if we can talk about radio, which is decreasing 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:52.960 and importance, lets you just stay with pop laeve country 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.520 in its own world for now it is unless you're 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.000 hip hop or who are you? Where did you come from? 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.320 I just want to get okay, asked me specific questions 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.800 and all the answer how did you start here doing 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:09.000 the podcast? And I was on I was on the 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:13.760 Recode podcast. This goes back a few years ago, um 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:16.559 and with Peter Kafka, and then all of a sudden, 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:18.679 all these people were tracking that be down to do 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:23.280 a podcast. Okay, So ultimately I went with this company 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.240 tune In. Tune In is well known there there the 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:28.840 if you get the app or you go online, you 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.160 can listen to any radio station all over the world. 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:33.560 So I was with tune in for a year and 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:38.160 now I'm with my Heart And uh, that's a general 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.520 story of how that podcast. Any more questions I'll answer, Well, 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:45.560 I mean I'm just curious because it's like, honestly, when 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:51.000 um my assistant, he was like, uh, Bob just sent 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.520 you an email and I knew of you, but I'm 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.720 not that verse in what you're a rock star, like 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.280 your personality is a total rock star. But I was like, okay, 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.400 well let me let me you know. You know, I 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.640 grew up in Connecticut and I was born in nineteen 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.280 fifty three. I was fifty miles from New York City. 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.880 As a result, in New York media, New York TV, 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:16.520 New York Radio, etcetera. And my mother would buy us 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.760 like Big Girls, Don't Cry, by the Four Seasons, etcetera. 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.760 And I became a huge Jan and Dean fan. And 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:25.880 then the Beatles hit music drove the culture. If you 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.000 want to know which way the wind blew, you listen 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:32.160 to music. And of course the first UH underground station 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.120 was case Sand. They might say in Pasadena, but let's 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.120 just say in in UH San Francisco. And then they 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:41.480 had them starting in nineteen in New York City, so 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.920 you immediately flipped there. And it was free form radio 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.320 and there were all these great acts, so you bought 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.760 these records. My parents. There was always money if it 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.320 was cultural. If you said, hey, I wanted a car, 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.800 forget it, I want money to go to a concert, 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.960 no problem. But everybody was into music, which one of 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.560 the reasons why all the baby boomeracks can do such 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:07.840 great live business at this day. So um two, I 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:10.760 went to college. You know, I went to college because 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:13.120 you're supposed to go to college, not because I thought 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.520 I want to learn anything. I'm gonna study anything. Whatever. 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.480 So I went to this college, Middlebury College in Vermont, 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:23.000 because very beautiful, and it's has some stature, and they 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.400 had their own ski area. I was very into skiing. 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.720 Little did I know that of the people were prep 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.360 school kids. Okay, they have a completely different background like 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.000 they had Kavanaugh whatever. I know those people they've been 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.080 living apart from their parents for years. That's where I learned. 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.520 You don't have to hand in anything on time, profess No, 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:43.880 just as for an extension public school, you couldn't do that. 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.960 But the first semester you got to a small school 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:49.960 like that, we you had to take an English class. 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.760 And I called the professor on a Sunday and so 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.880 can I do something creative? And he said yes. I 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:57.880 never called a professor after that, but that was the 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.400 one time I did. You know, if you where I 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.000 went to college, You've got three B minuses in a D. 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.399 That was Dean's list. I mean it was really you know, 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.040 an A was a real thing. So I got an 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.679 A on this paper I wrote, and oh, you know, 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:14.480 first of all, I told the prep school kids what 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:16.399 it was about, said, oh, you're gonna funk. I got 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:20.520 an A. And this was before phones in dorms, and 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:21.959 I went to the pay phone and I told my 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:25.720 mother to be a writer, and she laughed. Okay, So 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:30.359 the next year I went to uh take the creative 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.640 writing course from the one guy who taught it at 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:37.800 Middlebury who was a failed c writer. Okay. When I 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.000 would read, it would be like springtime for Hitler. People 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.560 just jaws would drop. The producers. To be very specific, 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.399 I went to see Alice Cooper on the Killer tour 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:51.000 in Boston and I wrote about that, and the guy 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:55.679 finally said, hey, that was good, but it needed a twist. 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.080 And I'm like, flip it out a twist. You ever 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.480 heard of the new journalism, which is already over. There's 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.959 no twist. I never wrote another thing, Okay. I always 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.359 want to be in the music business. Lived a couple 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:10.199 of years years in Utah, being a failed freestyle skier. 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:12.440 My father always wanted me to go to law school. 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:14.879 I went to law school because at the time a 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.480 lot of the labels were run by lawyers. Okay, and 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.080 my father is a real estate appraiser before they owned 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.920 a liquor store. Nobody we know is in the music business. 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.520 And it was terrible. But I fell with someone that 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.880 I lived with that carried me through law school and 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:31.080 certainly if I went to law SCHOOLMA pass the bar, 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:33.119 which I do, and I passed the first time. I 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.239 practiced for like ten minutes. And I don't know how 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.600 much detail I have to give, but ultimately I worked 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:44.359 for Sanctuary Music and with Iron Maiden and Loss. This 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.479 is in the eighties, and we had enough clout and 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.600 money that we would hire independent PR people. This is 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.560 when the labels were king, and these were very rich 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.760 deals to begin with. And you would get the bios 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:01.879 from the PR people and they say, this is just terrible. 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.960 I couldn't send this out and I started to rewrite it, 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.720 so then I got I lost my job, Okay, over 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.480 a creative issue. This is kind of interesting. I told 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:16.119 him banned. The mix was terrible, and I got the 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.440 guy Dwayne Baron who just done Quiet Riot to remix 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.320 it and it was listenable. But I was giving the 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.800 level of input and said, you gotta go. So that's 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:27.280 the kind of job you make a lot of money 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.200 because you can't spend it. You're working around the clock. 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:31.640 And eventually I worked on a couple of movies because 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.119 I've been in the movie business as a lawyer, and 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:37.320 after that, and then I ran out of money. Okay, 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:41.040 So then my psychiatrist sent me to a job counselor. 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.040 There's a famous book called What Color Is Your Parachute? 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.960 It's about seeking jobs. But I didn't know there was 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.600 a workbook. He gives me. The workbook says, right, sick, 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.359 you have to write success as brag about yourself. And 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:56.399 I wrote the success and I said, yeah, this is 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.280 what I wanted to be ten years before. So I 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.560 get out my writer from college electric type right, and 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:03.560 I type up some stuff and I sent it to 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:06.440 magazines and you get some nice note back. Those back 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.520 you Holy sh it. This is just like the music business. 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.040 You have to know somebody. So I was eating a 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:16.159 hamburger at a place called Flaky Jake's. Now it's like 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.680 a jewelry store at Pico and Sepulvida, and I'm reading Billboard, 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.600 which has been up and down it's down again. After 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:25.480 it was down period, Timothy White made a little better 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:27.600 for a minute in the early nineties. I said this 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.440 is terrible. I could do a better job than this, 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:32.280 And all of a sudden, I said, you know you 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:35.160 can buy computers. You get me, maybe you can do this. 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:38.159 So I had a credit card, five thousand dollars credit, 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:41.200 I bought a Mac Plus and I started this newsletter. 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:43.920 Only if the newsletter come out every two weeks, and 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.280 it came out religiously every two weeks. Not gonna be 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:51.119 a flake on the same fucking day, Okay. So every 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:54.160 article was a tip in the music business. Tip really 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:57.360 means radio what what they're playing. This would be insight 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:00.560 in how to run your business. And I had a 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:02.439 threshold that I said, this number of people has to 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:04.960 have to subscribe Rose, I'm gonna stop. I sent three 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:09.600 free issues. What astounded me was only the most successful 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:13.160 people subscribed because the people further down the food chain, 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:16.720 they couldn't hear anything contrary. They were going. So the 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.240 heads of every labeler calling me, they want to hang. 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.760 The only person who ever canceled their subscription was Clive Davis. 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:27.200 He's a story unto himself and then you know, I think, well, 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:30.800 I'll do some consulting. Bah bah bahm. Then my ex 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:33.440 wife moves out and I brought out on money. It's 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:36.080 really terrible. The nineties were kind of a lost decade. 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:38.720 But I had a free subscription to a O L 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:40.679 still writing the newsletter when you had a paid by 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.400 the minute, so I knew everything about tech. I'm also 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:46.679 a lawyer. All of a sudden, Napster hits. To be 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:50.399 very specific, this guy, David Krebs calls me when it 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:53.520 was irving on the West coast, irving as office the manager. 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:56.119 Krebs was on the East coast. He had a C 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.639 d C. He had new Ginny at Aeros Smith. He 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:00.879 calls me and he goes, we are all the acts 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:05.280 on Napster, okay, And I say, this is a good point, 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:08.000 and I write it in one of my newsletters. And 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:09.920 I get a call from Cliff Bernstein, who I knew 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:13.480 was one half of the Q Prime operation, and as 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:16.040 a result they sued Metallica. That's how it all went. 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:21.080 Metallica's Napster. But I became the expert on the intersection 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:25.520 of music in the Internet, and I didn't now just 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:29.320 to be that a little flavor. I was earlier than 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.560 everybody just because I was there. Like I would go 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:35.000 to the you know, the shrink and talk about Internet hate. 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:37.000 They have no idea what you're talking about. I mean 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:41.440 now Jimmy Kimmel does it on TV. Okay, so other 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:45.119 opportunities become. First five years, you had to email me. 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:47.480 I let subscriptions run out, but you have to email 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:49.760 me to get on the list. That was just to 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:52.600