Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob left That's Podcast. My
Speaker 1: guest today is Linda Perry. I saw her speak recently
Speaker 1: at Canadian Music Week and she was speaking the truth
Speaker 1: when everybody else blokes smoke up wannabe's asses. Linda, good
Speaker 1: to be here, Hi, Bob Okay. One of the things
Speaker 1: you said it really impressed me in in Toronto was
Speaker 1: you're looking for rock stars and you didn't see any
Speaker 1: rock stars in the room. Defined from my audience what
Speaker 1: a rock star is for me personally, everybody has their
Speaker 1: own version of a rock star, but for me, Patti
Speaker 1: Smith was a rock star, Keith Richards, Mick Jagger, Bowie
Speaker 1: kiss Um, Chrissie Hines, Janice Joplin. To me, a rock
Speaker 1: star is somebody who you just know they're something. They
Speaker 1: walk a different beat, there's something different about the way
Speaker 1: they talk. Um Jesus was a rock star, you know,
Speaker 1: and Um. But you get, you know, attracted to this
Speaker 1: person and want to know more about them because on
Speaker 1: stage or off stage, they're kind of the same. They
Speaker 1: have you know, I know, like for Freddie Mercury, when
Speaker 1: he's on stage, he's more flamboyant and more you know,
Speaker 1: big personality, right, and from what I've heard that when
Speaker 1: he's not on stage, he's still he has a smaller personality.
Speaker 1: But no matter what, he's a star. So I feel
Speaker 1: like we have a lot of celebrities, we have a
Speaker 1: lot of kids that are influencers, but as far as
Speaker 1: rock stars, I'm I find it very hard and very
Speaker 1: rare to find. Okay, So why do you think there
Speaker 1: are a fewer rock stars today than there were before?
Speaker 1: Because the generation sans Um after the nineties was the
Speaker 1: last rock star. In fact, what's funny about the nineties
Speaker 1: is it was about the biggest rock stars, but it
Speaker 1: was an anti rock star. Well we're talking about Kurt
Speaker 1: Cobain after here here be in music Settle exactly. But
Speaker 1: those Kurt Cobain was a full on rocks you know, Cornell,
Speaker 1: full on Pearl Jam everybody. And we had Um, Courtney Love,
Speaker 1: you know, so many incredible bands and they were full
Speaker 1: on rock stars even though they anti rock stars. Well
Speaker 1: I just remember this that story. Nirvana was in South
Speaker 1: America and uh they were there, Courtney Love was there
Speaker 1: and Courtney says, listen, we're gonna take the limo. No
Speaker 1: it's not punk, No, one's gonna say says, no, I
Speaker 1: can't take the limo. You know, but I think that
Speaker 1: what happened there is it introduced unfortunately. Um, hey, hey, Bob,
Speaker 1: Steven Larry, you can get on stage and being a
Speaker 1: band now because you can wear your board shorts. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, you could basically wake up in the morning
Speaker 1: and go on stage and that's the way you can look.
Speaker 1: And you don't have to be a flashy dresser. You
Speaker 1: don't have to have pizzas, you know, you don't have
Speaker 1: to have any of that. Because Nirvana and the grun
Speaker 1: scene basically said the you know, Joe Schmo is okay
Speaker 1: to be on the stage because that's what they are promoting,
Speaker 1: like the anti rock star. And but what's funny about
Speaker 1: those those guys were the most rock star guys because
Speaker 1: they had so much you know, there's a lot of attitude.
Speaker 1: There was like this fixation to not be rock stars,
Speaker 1: which made them rock stars. Okay, how do you compare
Speaker 1: that to the punk era of the late seventies. Well,
Speaker 1: the you know, as far as my I mean, let's
Speaker 1: see and this late seventies and I mean I'm eleven,
Speaker 1: twelve years old, and then everybody picks up. You know,
Speaker 1: that was sort of a different thing because Seattle, these
Speaker 1: were accomplished musicians. Yeah, I don't, I don't. There's you
Speaker 1: can whatever you want with this conversation and this one statement,
Speaker 1: there's nothing punk about the Seattle scene, So I don't
Speaker 1: know where that. Okay, it was a similar thing there,
Speaker 1: but we won't go no, no, no no. It was
Speaker 1: not a similar thing musically at all, and vibe wise,
Speaker 1: it was not punk rock. I remember punk. I was
Speaker 1: a punk rocker. I was ten when, you know, I
Speaker 1: listened to the Ramones, but I grew up, you know
Speaker 1: with that whole scene. I mean I was at the
Speaker 1: mosh pits. I broke my ankles maching, you know, with
Speaker 1: no shoes on. I mean I had razor blades and
Speaker 1: I cut my arm. I mean, not full on. But
Speaker 1: what I'm just trying to say. The music compared to
Speaker 1: that completely different, as you know. But the attitude to
Speaker 1: me was very different because punk rock didn't give a
Speaker 1: shit about anything, and it seemed like the whole grunge
Speaker 1: scene they did give a ship about being seen as
Speaker 1: rock stars and this other whole thing. They wanted to
Speaker 1: really perceive that we are not rock stars. We are normal,
Speaker 1: but they're but they're not. They weren't at all, you know,
Speaker 1: at least punk rockers. They were down in the dungeons, playing,
Speaker 1: you know, in these crappy fucking venues with a bunch
Speaker 1: of spit all over them, sweaty kids and jamming out.
Speaker 1: I mean, they didn't fucking care at all, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's to me that's not the same thing. Okay.
Speaker 1: Uh would we say being a rock star is the
Speaker 1: same as being charismatic? Absolutely? Um, I think there's a
Speaker 1: lot of charisma obviously and rock stars. That's part of
Speaker 1: the problem is I feel like we are not dealing
Speaker 1: with that hype of swagger. You know, it's sexy, It's
Speaker 1: sexy in a whole other way. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: Jamie Chaplin was sexy, but there was nothing sexy about her,
Speaker 1: you know. And um, you know Patti Smith, Stevie Nicks,
Speaker 1: like Blondie. I mean, they were so cool and like
Speaker 1: there's a whole other sexiness going on because they're powerful women,
Speaker 1: or at least portraying them. And what I'm having an
Speaker 1: issue with is a lot of um, you know, Beyonce
Speaker 1: is a rock star, of course, Pink is you know,
Speaker 1: there's there's rock stars. I'm not sure I would. Well,
Speaker 1: she's a different type of rock star. She's like, you know,
Speaker 1: she's got Pink's very very thoughtful about what she's doing
Speaker 1: in her life. I guess, you know, I guess for me.
Speaker 1: And this is a small item, the way she does
Speaker 1: the acrobatic act at every show to the point where
Speaker 1: it's a feature of the show. If you go back
Speaker 1: to you know, Alice Cooper, every show was different, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it was. But everybody does that. I mean that
Speaker 1: the the whole thing is Again, that would be a
Speaker 1: perfect example of when you're great, you can I mean
Speaker 1: I toured with Neil Young for two months and every
Speaker 1: single show was incredibly different. And he had booker team,
Speaker 1: the mg S at the time, and I was sitting
Speaker 1: there at that you know, at the stage just every
Speaker 1: show watching him. I was just like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Neil Young, right, and every solo was different. And then
Speaker 1: and then they would just watch him and then you
Speaker 1: could tell he's, oh, he's gonna he's not gonna do
Speaker 1: the normal and then he had flipped and they would
Speaker 1: be right there with him. And for me, what that was,
Speaker 1: it's like great, incredibly gifted, you know, sense sensitive musicians
Speaker 1: that are paying attention to the artist and the singer
Speaker 1: and the song and they know by just a feeling
Speaker 1: an instinct what's going to happen. And the fact that
Speaker 1: Neil Young felt compelled to drive himself every single night
Speaker 1: to be a better you know, make a better solo
Speaker 1: or you know what, I'm gonna take the solo on
Speaker 1: piano instead. I mean, it was so incredible watching him.
Speaker 1: We are not dealing with that level of artist anymore.
Speaker 1: Let's go drill down right there though. Um Bob Dylan
Speaker 1: is very much a rock star, but he's on tour now,
Speaker 1: it has been for essentially thirty years rearranging the songs.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about that? Well, I feel if
Speaker 1: you're going to rearrange the songs to bring more honesty
Speaker 1: back into your voice and into the song, because after what,
Speaker 1: you know, thirty years, singing the same song can get
Speaker 1: quite you know, So if you have to do that
Speaker 1: and to put more life back in to reignite the
Speaker 1: flame of how you sung that song and the energy,
Speaker 1: I'm all for it. But if you're doing it to
Speaker 1: be relevant or follow anything that's going on in today's time,
Speaker 1: I'm very disappointed in that he's definitely doing making interesting
Speaker 1: for himself, which I applaud, But to what degree do
Speaker 1: you owe a debt to your audience? Well, and what
Speaker 1: do degree does the audience owe the person that they're idolizing,
Speaker 1: you know, the space to create? Well, I guess the
Speaker 1: fascinating story and this goes back to when you were
Speaker 1: very young. Neil Young had a huge hit with Heart
Speaker 1: of Gold. Okay, after that was a hit in the
Speaker 1: spring of seventy two, he went on on arena tour.
Speaker 1: The ultimate album was called Time Fades Away, but he
Speaker 1: stood up with an electric band and didn't play any
Speaker 1: of the sawt stuff from Harvest. Uh. Now, it's very interesting.
Speaker 1: He has a long history of going his own way.
Speaker 1: He can really still sell tickets. Were Crosby, Seals and
Speaker 1: Nash who are disparate at this particular point in time.
Speaker 1: They can't sell anywhere near that number of tickets, right,
Speaker 1: And I think that's because people see Neil Young as
Speaker 1: a real rock star doing whatever he wants. But you know,
Speaker 1: especially with a lot of older people touring, would they
Speaker 1: have some level of expectation if they're paying they want Okay, well,
Speaker 1: you didn't tell me about that part. If it's like
Speaker 1: you know, legacy artists going back on on tour, I say,
Speaker 1: don't try to play as a bunch of new songs
Speaker 1: that aren't even equivalent to the level of the older
Speaker 1: songs that people know, because it's not like, honestly, honestly,
Speaker 1: it's not like anybody's gonna go, oh yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go buy that new Crosby Steals and Nash album. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not gonna happen. They're gonna want the older songs.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, that to me is where yes, it would
Speaker 1: probably very you know, upsetting to those artists. Like if
Speaker 1: I had to go if I were an artist still
Speaker 1: and I had to go out and perform for an
Speaker 1: oblongs you know, songs till I was seventy eight years
Speaker 1: old and nobody wanted to hear anything new, I had
Speaker 1: to say, I'd be bummed out. But the truth is,
Speaker 1: if no one wants to hear anything knew that you have,
Speaker 1: you know, have to say, that means you haven't had
Speaker 1: anything to say in quite a while. And the only
Speaker 1: songs that stood out are the ones that you pushed yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, to make money. To go on a tour
Speaker 1: and do all these things. But what happens is that
Speaker 1: you can never get rid of the artist. Bob, We're
Speaker 1: always going to be an artist, and so Crosby Seals
Speaker 1: and ash just you know, it's still gonna want to go. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: come on, let's do it. Let's write a great song.
Speaker 1: Let's try to beat you know, our old you know, oldies,
Speaker 1: and they're gonna try to go out there and they
Speaker 1: might fool themselves into believing that they are and you
Speaker 1: know what, and they possibly could, but no one's going
Speaker 1: to hear it because it's for the first time and
Speaker 1: we spent a decade in twenty or two decades listening
Speaker 1: to these incredible songs that have been a soundtrack to
Speaker 1: our lives. You know. But let's let's go deeper on
Speaker 1: one of those points. Let's assume you've had a period
Speaker 1: of hits, six or seven well known slumps. Do you
Speaker 1: think the people ten or twenty years later are capable
Speaker 1: of writing another hit? Absolutely, I absolutely do. I feel
Speaker 1: that the problem happens when people want to be relevant,
Speaker 1: when they start thinking that they need to write a
Speaker 1: song that sounds like today, And the truth is Nobody
Speaker 1: wants a song from Neil Young that sounds like today.
Speaker 1: They want Neil Young, Um, Carly Simon, they want Carly,
Speaker 1: they want Dolly. I mean when I worked with Dolly,
Speaker 1: for example, I just took her songs and recreated them
Speaker 1: in a very organic way that I thought, what would
Speaker 1: Dolly do right now if she had total control of this?
Speaker 1: And I just simplified everything. And then the songs we
Speaker 1: wrote were awesome. We wrote six songs in two days
Speaker 1: because we weren't trying to chase anything. We just it
Speaker 1: was just Dolly and Linda and and that's those were
Speaker 1: the songs that Lynda and Dolly wrote. And Dolly was like,
Speaker 1: these are to me equally as powerful as my songs
Speaker 1: and and you know, my my other material. And I said,
Speaker 1: I agree, and I told her, I said, but the
Speaker 1: thing is, we've had years to live with Joline and
Speaker 1: all these other songs. These songs are not going to
Speaker 1: be accepted as well, but we don't care because they're
Speaker 1: not going to have the level of you know, intimacy
Speaker 1: with these songs as they have with your other stuff.
Speaker 1: And that's what it comes down to. But when people
Speaker 1: want to be relevant and start being modern. It's to me,
Speaker 1: that's a buzz kill. I agree with you, but today's
Speaker 1: marketplace if we can talk about radio, which is decreasing
Speaker 1: and importance, lets you just stay with pop laeve country
Speaker 1: in its own world for now it is unless you're
Speaker 1: hip hop or who are you? Where did you come from?
Speaker 1: I just want to get okay, asked me specific questions
Speaker 1: and all the answer how did you start here doing
Speaker 1: the podcast? And I was on I was on the
Speaker 1: Recode podcast. This goes back a few years ago, um
Speaker 1: and with Peter Kafka, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: all these people were tracking that be down to do
Speaker 1: a podcast. Okay, So ultimately I went with this company
Speaker 1: tune In. Tune In is well known there there the
Speaker 1: if you get the app or you go online, you
Speaker 1: can listen to any radio station all over the world.
Speaker 1: So I was with tune in for a year and
Speaker 1: now I'm with my Heart And uh, that's a general
Speaker 1: story of how that podcast. Any more questions I'll answer, Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I'm just curious because it's like, honestly, when
Speaker 1: um my assistant, he was like, uh, Bob just sent
Speaker 1: you an email and I knew of you, but I'm
Speaker 1: not that verse in what you're a rock star, like
Speaker 1: your personality is a total rock star. But I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: well let me let me you know. You know, I
Speaker 1: grew up in Connecticut and I was born in nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty three. I was fifty miles from New York City.
Speaker 1: As a result, in New York media, New York TV,
Speaker 1: New York Radio, etcetera. And my mother would buy us
Speaker 1: like Big Girls, Don't Cry, by the Four Seasons, etcetera.
Speaker 1: And I became a huge Jan and Dean fan. And
Speaker 1: then the Beatles hit music drove the culture. If you
Speaker 1: want to know which way the wind blew, you listen
Speaker 1: to music. And of course the first UH underground station
Speaker 1: was case Sand. They might say in Pasadena, but let's
Speaker 1: just say in in UH San Francisco. And then they
Speaker 1: had them starting in nineteen in New York City, so
Speaker 1: you immediately flipped there. And it was free form radio
Speaker 1: and there were all these great acts, so you bought
Speaker 1: these records. My parents. There was always money if it
Speaker 1: was cultural. If you said, hey, I wanted a car,
Speaker 1: forget it, I want money to go to a concert,
Speaker 1: no problem. But everybody was into music, which one of
Speaker 1: the reasons why all the baby boomeracks can do such
Speaker 1: great live business at this day. So um two, I
Speaker 1: went to college. You know, I went to college because
Speaker 1: you're supposed to go to college, not because I thought
Speaker 1: I want to learn anything. I'm gonna study anything. Whatever.
Speaker 1: So I went to this college, Middlebury College in Vermont,
Speaker 1: because very beautiful, and it's has some stature, and they
Speaker 1: had their own ski area. I was very into skiing.
Speaker 1: Little did I know that of the people were prep
Speaker 1: school kids. Okay, they have a completely different background like
Speaker 1: they had Kavanaugh whatever. I know those people they've been
Speaker 1: living apart from their parents for years. That's where I learned.
Speaker 1: You don't have to hand in anything on time, profess No,
Speaker 1: just as for an extension public school, you couldn't do that.
Speaker 1: But the first semester you got to a small school
Speaker 1: like that, we you had to take an English class.
Speaker 1: And I called the professor on a Sunday and so
Speaker 1: can I do something creative? And he said yes. I
Speaker 1: never called a professor after that, but that was the
Speaker 1: one time I did. You know, if you where I
Speaker 1: went to college, You've got three B minuses in a D.
Speaker 1: That was Dean's list. I mean it was really you know,
Speaker 1: an A was a real thing. So I got an
Speaker 1: A on this paper I wrote, and oh, you know,
Speaker 1: first of all, I told the prep school kids what
Speaker 1: it was about, said, oh, you're gonna funk. I got
Speaker 1: an A. And this was before phones in dorms, and
Speaker 1: I went to the pay phone and I told my
Speaker 1: mother to be a writer, and she laughed. Okay, So
Speaker 1: the next year I went to uh take the creative
Speaker 1: writing course from the one guy who taught it at
Speaker 1: Middlebury who was a failed c writer. Okay. When I
Speaker 1: would read, it would be like springtime for Hitler. People
Speaker 1: just jaws would drop. The producers. To be very specific,
Speaker 1: I went to see Alice Cooper on the Killer tour
Speaker 1: in Boston and I wrote about that, and the guy
Speaker 1: finally said, hey, that was good, but it needed a twist.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, flip it out a twist. You ever
Speaker 1: heard of the new journalism, which is already over. There's
Speaker 1: no twist. I never wrote another thing, Okay. I always
Speaker 1: want to be in the music business. Lived a couple
Speaker 1: of years years in Utah, being a failed freestyle skier.
Speaker 1: My father always wanted me to go to law school.
Speaker 1: I went to law school because at the time a
Speaker 1: lot of the labels were run by lawyers. Okay, and
Speaker 1: my father is a real estate appraiser before they owned
Speaker 1: a liquor store. Nobody we know is in the music business.
Speaker 1: And it was terrible. But I fell with someone that
Speaker 1: I lived with that carried me through law school and
Speaker 1: certainly if I went to law SCHOOLMA pass the bar,
Speaker 1: which I do, and I passed the first time. I
Speaker 1: practiced for like ten minutes. And I don't know how
Speaker 1: much detail I have to give, but ultimately I worked
Speaker 1: for Sanctuary Music and with Iron Maiden and Loss. This
Speaker 1: is in the eighties, and we had enough clout and
Speaker 1: money that we would hire independent PR people. This is
Speaker 1: when the labels were king, and these were very rich
Speaker 1: deals to begin with. And you would get the bios
Speaker 1: from the PR people and they say, this is just terrible.
Speaker 1: I couldn't send this out and I started to rewrite it,
Speaker 1: so then I got I lost my job, Okay, over
Speaker 1: a creative issue. This is kind of interesting. I told
Speaker 1: him banned. The mix was terrible, and I got the
Speaker 1: guy Dwayne Baron who just done Quiet Riot to remix
Speaker 1: it and it was listenable. But I was giving the
Speaker 1: level of input and said, you gotta go. So that's
Speaker 1: the kind of job you make a lot of money
Speaker 1: because you can't spend it. You're working around the clock.
Speaker 1: And eventually I worked on a couple of movies because
Speaker 1: I've been in the movie business as a lawyer, and
Speaker 1: after that, and then I ran out of money. Okay,
Speaker 1: So then my psychiatrist sent me to a job counselor.
Speaker 1: There's a famous book called What Color Is Your Parachute?
Speaker 1: It's about seeking jobs. But I didn't know there was
Speaker 1: a workbook. He gives me. The workbook says, right, sick,
Speaker 1: you have to write success as brag about yourself. And
Speaker 1: I wrote the success and I said, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: what I wanted to be ten years before. So I
Speaker 1: get out my writer from college electric type right, and
Speaker 1: I type up some stuff and I sent it to
Speaker 1: magazines and you get some nice note back. Those back
Speaker 1: you Holy sh it. This is just like the music business.
Speaker 1: You have to know somebody. So I was eating a
Speaker 1: hamburger at a place called Flaky Jake's. Now it's like
Speaker 1: a jewelry store at Pico and Sepulvida, and I'm reading Billboard,
Speaker 1: which has been up and down it's down again. After
Speaker 1: it was down period, Timothy White made a little better
Speaker 1: for a minute in the early nineties. I said this
Speaker 1: is terrible. I could do a better job than this,
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, I said, you know you
Speaker 1: can buy computers. You get me, maybe you can do this.
Speaker 1: So I had a credit card, five thousand dollars credit,
Speaker 1: I bought a Mac Plus and I started this newsletter.
Speaker 1: Only if the newsletter come out every two weeks, and
Speaker 1: it came out religiously every two weeks. Not gonna be
Speaker 1: a flake on the same fucking day, Okay. So every
Speaker 1: article was a tip in the music business. Tip really
Speaker 1: means radio what what they're playing. This would be insight
Speaker 1: in how to run your business. And I had a
Speaker 1: threshold that I said, this number of people has to
Speaker 1: have to subscribe Rose, I'm gonna stop. I sent three
Speaker 1: free issues. What astounded me was only the most successful
Speaker 1: people subscribed because the people further down the food chain,
Speaker 1: they couldn't hear anything contrary. They were going. So the
Speaker 1: heads of every labeler calling me, they want to hang.
Speaker 1: The only person who ever canceled their subscription was Clive Davis.
Speaker 1: He's a story unto himself and then you know, I think, well,
Speaker 1: I'll do some consulting. Bah bah bahm. Then my ex
Speaker 1: wife moves out and I brought out on money. It's
Speaker 1: really terrible. The nineties were kind of a lost decade.
Speaker 1: But I had a free subscription to a O L
Speaker 1: still writing the newsletter when you had a paid by
Speaker 1: the minute, so I knew everything about tech. I'm also
Speaker 1: a lawyer. All of a sudden, Napster hits. To be
Speaker 1: very specific, this guy, David Krebs calls me when it
Speaker 1: was irving on the West coast, irving as office the manager.
Speaker 1: Krebs was on the East coast. He had a C
Speaker 1: d C. He had new Ginny at Aeros Smith. He
Speaker 1: calls me and he goes, we are all the acts
Speaker 1: on Napster, okay, And I say, this is a good point,
Speaker 1: and I write it in one of my newsletters. And
Speaker 1: I get a call from Cliff Bernstein, who I knew
Speaker 1: was one half of the Q Prime operation, and as
Speaker 1: a result they sued Metallica. That's how it all went.
Speaker 1: Metallica's Napster. But I became the expert on the intersection
Speaker 1: of music in the Internet, and I didn't now just
Speaker 1: to be that a little flavor. I was earlier than
Speaker 1: everybody just because I was there. Like I would go
Speaker 1: to the you know, the shrink and talk about Internet hate.
Speaker 1: They have no idea what you're talking about. I mean
Speaker 1: now Jimmy Kimmel does it on TV. Okay, so other
Speaker 1: opportunities become. First five years, you had to email me.
Speaker 1: I let subscriptions run out, but you have to email
Speaker 1: me to get on the list. That was just to
Speaker 1: go one step further. It used to be you had
Speaker 1: to send to physical addresses. I go to this conference
Speaker 1: every year and Aspen in December, and in for the
Speaker 1: first time, they gave email addresses. I had friends working
Speaker 1: in the publishing book business. There was a book about
Speaker 1: UH David Geffen called The Operator, which I recommend people
Speaker 1: listened to. And I had it a weekend before anybody,
Speaker 1: and I wrote about it and send it to the
Speaker 1: ask for people. Incredible. Then I started hearing from people
Speaker 1: like Jefferson Hold he was the original manager of R. E.
Speaker 1: M okay and UH okay, it's great, you're into me,
Speaker 1: but how did you get it? You know? And he says, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I got it from what Williams The UH
Speaker 1: the a and R Guy, so he's not on the
Speaker 1: list either. So I experienced virality, but there's a lot
Speaker 1: of blowback. This is like being a rock star now
Speaker 1: more than ever because people because once you rise above
Speaker 1: it's not quite like Cannon in England, but they're trying
Speaker 1: to bring you back down. So I didn't automate the
Speaker 1: mailing list till two thousand five, and by that time
Speaker 1: I could kind of handle the feedback. I also had
Speaker 1: a mission because I was aware of what I was
Speaker 1: under the illusion that the record companies would suite Napster,
Speaker 1: which I knew was copyright infringement. I was a lawyer,
Speaker 1: even though I friends with the guys at Napster at
Speaker 1: this point um and I assumed when they won the case,
Speaker 1: then they would license Napster one of these other things,
Speaker 1: which they didn't. So I said, I want to get
Speaker 1: to the point when Spotify ended up being, which was
Speaker 1: pay a load price, you can get all the music. Okay.
Speaker 1: I figured that's what the public wants. So I mean,
Speaker 1: I was the number one person on all these issues
Speaker 1: they gave free subscription to. I have no investment in
Speaker 1: any of these things, otherwise it couldn't comment. And you know,
Speaker 1: I generated more more free subscribers when they launched in
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven than anybody else. They gave you know
Speaker 1: stuff too. But what happened was in the music business
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies, music drove the culture. If you wanted
Speaker 1: to know what was going on, you bought a record. Okay.
Speaker 1: Then it kind of died at the end of the
Speaker 1: seventies with core rock disco. Then it blew up so
Speaker 1: and CBS Columbia Records laid awful lot of people. Then
Speaker 1: MTV came along and there was a resurgen. First it
Speaker 1: was the old acts. Then as a result of Culture
Speaker 1: Club and Duran Duran, you had new acts. But as
Speaker 1: you hit the late eighties, it started to become more
Speaker 1: about the video and how people looked as opposed to
Speaker 1: their underlying abilities and the song. But that played out
Speaker 1: through the nineties and then the year two thousand came,
Speaker 1: everything blew apart. But once it was I believe maybe
Speaker 1: when every it was it was so weird experience. Everybody
Speaker 1: got a subscription to a O L and they started
Speaker 1: to play. So for twenty years, Internet drove the culture. Okay,
Speaker 1: From five, you're buying a new gadget, you where everybody's
Speaker 1: talking about a new app that's solidified right now, Politics,
Speaker 1: especially in America, is driving the culture. So just to
Speaker 1: go some of these issues that we have. When I
Speaker 1: grew up wrong, middle class, Okay, there were beautiful people,
Speaker 1: but they might be in the art class. They were not.
Speaker 1: You know, you'd say, oh, they're beautiful whatever, they're living
Speaker 1: in another planet. They became the artists, okay. And then
Speaker 1: you had people like the Jefferson airplane, you know, up
Speaker 1: against the wall. Motherfucker. These are middle class people. They
Speaker 1: can speak their truth when life became so hard. And
Speaker 1: I'm gonna piss people off at Reagan legitimized greed. Today,
Speaker 1: today's kids are very sophisticated. It's a very hard life
Speaker 1: out there. You can't make it on minimum wage. And
Speaker 1: I believe the lower classes, as opposed to the middle classes,
Speaker 1: are going into music and they'll do what people tell
Speaker 1: them to do, where the middle class they won't. So
Speaker 1: I think you have to mix that in. In addition,
Speaker 1: you have to go to the point where the business
Speaker 1: is not aligned with reality. If you'll get pull started
Speaker 1: the touring bible and you look what's selling tickets, it's
Speaker 1: far wider than the Spotify Top fifty. So we have
Speaker 1: an industry that still thinks there's a top ten, and
Speaker 1: maybe you can boil it down to a top ten.
Speaker 1: But there's a million other things happening, and these things
Speaker 1: like I want to see the Tansky Trucks band last week.
Speaker 1: I mean I've met you know. People think I found
Speaker 1: him yesterday. I met you know, Derek Trucks when he
Speaker 1: was playing with the Allman Brothers fifteen years ago. Okay,
Speaker 1: they've my frenzy agent. They've been playing for years. If
Speaker 1: you go there, the audience, this is like their favorite band.
Speaker 1: But if you talk to someone under the age, they've
Speaker 1: never even heard of them. So it's a disconnect where
Speaker 1: it used to be. If you could sell that many tickets,
Speaker 1: everybody would know you. I'll stop my real map. No,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. Um, you jumped to so many different places.
Speaker 1: But I just want to go back to the eighties
Speaker 1: for a second. The eighties may have had bad videos
Speaker 1: and some crazy hair due but he takes all those
Speaker 1: productions away. There are really good songs in the eighties.
Speaker 1: Songs were written in there, but the productions and videos
Speaker 1: were for crazy. But eighties is some of my favorite music,
Speaker 1: getting a few tracks, a few tracks any soft sell
Speaker 1: um Banshees M. There was this band called Everything but
Speaker 1: the Girl that I Love Duran Duran, I mean, of course,
Speaker 1: how about Culture Club some I was a huge I
Speaker 1: went to see them, Yeah, like two years ago. I
Speaker 1: was stunned out good it was yeah, you know, my friends.
Speaker 1: For some reason, I dug the first you know, the
Speaker 1: you know, do you really want to hurt me? But
Speaker 1: everything else kind of got a little too much for me.
Speaker 1: I guess I wasn't a huge fan the Church of
Speaker 1: the Poison Mind, which was on the second really using
Speaker 1: the Banshees by far number one now a member. I
Speaker 1: was remember the slits who wrote this book. Wasn't Susie
Speaker 1: and the Banchees. Okay, that's the eighties. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: got a very quick question. You can ask me a
Speaker 1: question any time. How did you get to go on
Speaker 1: that Neil Young tour? Well? Um, I was in my
Speaker 1: band for an Arbombs and then I left the band,
Speaker 1: was it? Yeah? I left the band and um, so
Speaker 1: we were in the middle of our second record and
Speaker 1: I just couldn't I just couldn't do it. I was like,
Speaker 1: I can't do this. Again, Um it wasn't. Um, the
Speaker 1: band wasn't for me. And wonderful success, thank you you
Speaker 1: know for that. I believe the energy of that was
Speaker 1: amazing and it really did, you know, help, but um,
Speaker 1: it just wasn't fulfilling me soulfully. And so I got
Speaker 1: out of the band, and UM, I think I just
Speaker 1: said I wanted to go out on tour with Neil Young,
Speaker 1: and I did this record, um, and this record is
Speaker 1: in Flight, and I felt that would be perfect for
Speaker 1: Neil Young. And then I just got the tour was
Speaker 1: a little bit slower. You were the opening up. I
Speaker 1: was the opening xt okay, so your agent so my
Speaker 1: agent at the time as Danny um Winery Peninsula and um,
Speaker 1: and so we got that gig. So some shows was
Speaker 1: me opening up and then some shows were the big festivals.
Speaker 1: So would be like there was one show we did
Speaker 1: in uh Glasgow where it was um Me Pearl Jam,
Speaker 1: Neil Young Van Morrison. I mean it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden got into these really really cool
Speaker 1: things that you know for Blonde's couldn't I mean I
Speaker 1: opened up for the who you know, I mean it
Speaker 1: was pretty amazing. So um, but that's how that happened.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and I would. I told him it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, every time you play, I just want to
Speaker 1: go out and pick up a truck and I feel
Speaker 1: like I can throw it, you know. And there was
Speaker 1: I went to see this movie Echo in the Key Union.
Speaker 1: I mean they sent me a screener. Okay, So in
Speaker 1: the movie they're talking about the competition between acts, how
Speaker 1: Brian Wilson is doing something. A lot of this is
Speaker 1: well okay, and then the Bill said, holy funk, it's
Speaker 1: pet sounds. We have to do better. And I know
Speaker 1: exactly what you're talking about. When you when you're kind
Speaker 1: of in the game, Holy fuck, it inspires you. As
Speaker 1: opposed to today, a lot of times we feel like
Speaker 1: we're living in a silo. Yeah, well, you know, again,
Speaker 1: going back to a long time question ago, I feel
Speaker 1: that digression is a spice of you know, what we're
Speaker 1: dealing with is a very you know, I'll just call
Speaker 1: it the me generation where it's just me, me, me um.
Speaker 1: And I don't think music can come from that place
Speaker 1: or or be presented that way because the whole reason,
Speaker 1: you know, yes, we want to do music for ourselves,
Speaker 1: but it's for ourselves to empower others as well, to
Speaker 1: send a message for ourselves having an you know, an
Speaker 1: ego or whatever it is, or a political statement or
Speaker 1: you know, whatever statement that we have. And I think
Speaker 1: that's what the problem is. No one's making a statement
Speaker 1: about anything, and the music is just so I don't
Speaker 1: even know who is who, you know, but right now,
Speaker 1: I mean, I am excited because there's a lot of
Speaker 1: great stuff, you know, I feel. I can't tell you what,
Speaker 1: but I can feel the energy is shifting right now
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of um based on I mean,
Speaker 1: I do a lot of panels like what you saw
Speaker 1: I do that. I've been doing that like for the
Speaker 1: past year and a half straight. And the reason, you know,
Speaker 1: I needed to correct your comment, you know that I was,
Speaker 1: you know, hurting people. I was like, but that to me,
Speaker 1: anytime you tell someone the truth, it's going to hurt
Speaker 1: them in some way. Because the point what I was
Speaker 1: trying to make is if your mom and your sister
Speaker 1: and your family said, oh, Darling, that's so what a
Speaker 1: great you know song there, they don't have the right information.
Speaker 1: They're lying to you basically because of anybody who told
Speaker 1: you that was good is lying to you. And that's
Speaker 1: that actually I know that, you know, I say the
Speaker 1: exact same thing. Put it up on YouTube or sound cloud,
Speaker 1: and forget your friends if they if they are the
Speaker 1: planes going up. I'm trying to get kids to go
Speaker 1: actually perform, you know, and get off of the socials
Speaker 1: because right now, that's to me is what is happening.
Speaker 1: That there's a The art of recording is dying, The
Speaker 1: art of performing live is dying. The art of you know,
Speaker 1: writing a song, it's like that craft, that art of recording, songwriting, performing,
Speaker 1: it's not being um. The kids don't know. They don't
Speaker 1: know what a rehearsal room is. They don't know that
Speaker 1: you can actually get a band together, meet, connect because
Speaker 1: they don't understand that part the reasons the reason the
Speaker 1: Beatles were so great, it's because there was a connection
Speaker 1: with all the members of the band Rolling Stones, just
Speaker 1: an airplane, Fleetwood Mac. These are all great connections. Whether
Speaker 1: they all get along or not doesn't matter. A connection
Speaker 1: is made by all these artists that formed in this band,
Speaker 1: that created this huge persona and this incredible music. And
Speaker 1: when you listen to you know, these kids getting together
Speaker 1: there I don't even know how they're meeting each other.
Speaker 1: But what they're not doing is going in a rehearsal room,
Speaker 1: figuring out who they are and then getting out there
Speaker 1: into the real world. Whether it's your your sister, um
Speaker 1: uh's boyfriend Bobby who's having a party down in the
Speaker 1: basement when their parents are gone and they want your
Speaker 1: band to perform, you get instant reaction right there, like
Speaker 1: you can all of a sudden realize, Okay, that song
Speaker 1: is not working. People really didn't like that we bombed.
Speaker 1: But right now kids are taking I have kids coming
Speaker 1: to me and tell me it. Well, you know, I
Speaker 1: spent you know, fifteen thousand dollars making this demo and
Speaker 1: I don't know how to get it out there, and
Speaker 1: you know, um it just seems like nobody wants to
Speaker 1: hear it. And then I hear it and I'm like,
Speaker 1: did you listen to this? And they're like, yeah, I go,
Speaker 1: you should. Who told you to spend fifteen dollars on this?
Speaker 1: You don't have one song on here? Who the hell
Speaker 1: told you? You know that you that was the best
Speaker 1: thing to do. Well, you know, my friend or my parents,
Speaker 1: they gave me the money go do this. And then
Speaker 1: this guy took the money. Of course, the guy took
Speaker 1: the money. You know, he's in it for money. He's
Speaker 1: got a studio that he's not making any money. Some
Speaker 1: you know, silly kids gonna come in here some five
Speaker 1: bad songs. He's gonna take your money, you know. So anyways,
Speaker 1: that's what I'm trying to get kids to do, to
Speaker 1: kind of get off of the That's why I said
Speaker 1: fuck you to those people who get up on stage
Speaker 1: and teach these kids about how to make their socials
Speaker 1: even bigger, because why what why don't we try to
Speaker 1: make them stronger as individuals, stronger as artist, songwriters, performers. First,
Speaker 1: why don't we use all your know how and knowledge
Speaker 1: to why don't you give them some money and start
Speaker 1: some kind of band camp or some kind of thing
Speaker 1: to get these kids in there, and then you can
Speaker 1: document that and put it on your social media and
Speaker 1: you know, explore the possibilities of teaching kids how to
Speaker 1: actually be. But the question becomes today's generations are they
Speaker 1: more interested in becoming famous or making music? Exactly celebrity.
Speaker 1: That's why I said that we are being driven by celebrities.
Speaker 1: And you know, someone was saying, well, you know, I
Speaker 1: just record the songs and I put them out there.
Speaker 1: And I said, you know, people are more precious to
Speaker 1: put out a photo on Instagram. They sit there and
Speaker 1: they doctor it. They I see kids take pictures like
Speaker 1: over and over until they get the right one. Then
Speaker 1: they go put it through its filters and do all
Speaker 1: this stuff, make sure it looks great, okay great, and
Speaker 1: then they put it out there because they know that
Speaker 1: that once that is out there, they're not getting it back.
Speaker 1: I don't see anybody really doing that with music. I
Speaker 1: see music just coming out. Oh I has wrote this today.
Speaker 1: Oh it's a great song because my my sister said
Speaker 1: it was and my girlfriend loved it. So I'm gonna
Speaker 1: put it on my Instagram now and watch the buzz
Speaker 1: happen on YouTube and I'm gonna be picked up like
Speaker 1: Justin Bieber, you know, and it's like, you know that
Speaker 1: that's gone. Now, that's out there in the world, that
Speaker 1: piece of ship that you just put out there. Not
Speaker 1: only is it bad and it's out in the world,
Speaker 1: but it's it's going to clutter get in the way
Speaker 1: of something good. Well need the barrier to entry is
Speaker 1: non existent. Everybody's got garage being on their computer. They
Speaker 1: can make us long. They can get it on certainly YouTube.
Speaker 1: And my thing is, I know you can, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you should. Okay, But the question question becomes,
Speaker 1: this person who spent fifteen thou dollars. You spoke the
Speaker 1: truth to that person. How did they handle it? Oh?
Speaker 1: They're bummed out, man, bummed out because they're like, well,
Speaker 1: I wish I would have known you, you know, a
Speaker 1: year ago. They's just like, but I said, listen, you
Speaker 1: have to be smart, and that's why. And actually it's
Speaker 1: those kind of conversations what started me to start going
Speaker 1: on these panels. And and I mean I've been all
Speaker 1: over the place trying to talk to kids and I
Speaker 1: don't listen. I don't think I know jack Ship. All
Speaker 1: I know is my truth and what works for me
Speaker 1: and my experience. And I know that I don't operate
Speaker 1: from me. I operate from I'm in this business that
Speaker 1: I love, I respected so much. I love making music.
Speaker 1: It is just it's who I am. I will always
Speaker 1: be this person no matter what. And because this is
Speaker 1: my world, my job, I owe it to myself and
Speaker 1: the people that are in it to invest emotionally in
Speaker 1: it as well. So I'm trying to protect this to
Speaker 1: me very I mean talk about you know, what is
Speaker 1: a crisis going on. There is a crisis, you know,
Speaker 1: when music is being treated like the most. It's the most.
Speaker 1: I mean it's the biggest thing out there, but it's
Speaker 1: treated like ship. You know, from songwriters to performers, to
Speaker 1: credits to all that. It's like it's everywhere, but it's
Speaker 1: like the songwriter or whatever. It's like literally on the
Speaker 1: it's like might as well be a piece of dog poop.
Speaker 1: You know that people are just stepping believe songwriter royalties
Speaker 1: should go up. They got screwed when they went to
Speaker 1: these digital things, specially streaming. But do you feel like
Speaker 1: you're putting your finger in the dyke? I mean, because
Speaker 1: I was doing did you didn't say, am I putting
Speaker 1: my finger in the dyke? I was. I was in
Speaker 1: the Netherlands with a little boy that you're looking at
Speaker 1: it that way? What I mean by do you know
Speaker 1: that calling as dyke is also another word for a lesbian.
Speaker 1: Of course I know that, but it wasn't in my brain.
Speaker 1: I was like to say that, Bob, you said put
Speaker 1: your finger in the dike? Right? Isn't that what they say,
Speaker 1: wasn't there you went to school? Wasn't a little boy?
Speaker 1: And the story we had his finger in the dike
Speaker 1: and he took the finger. And then as I know
Speaker 1: what the story you're saying, it's just funny. I've been
Speaker 1: doing that. I've been doing this a long time. And
Speaker 1: I used to tell people the truth. Okay, I refused
Speaker 1: to blow smoke up their ass. I had a lot
Speaker 1: of bad experiences because these people become vindictive. Okay, let
Speaker 1: me go one step further. Last fall, I went on
Speaker 1: tour with Jason flam Is that a lot of hits
Speaker 1: And we went to USC they have like a recording
Speaker 1: program and he's blowing smoke up the ass. Oh, you
Speaker 1: can make it. You can do that. And I'm like
Speaker 1: the only persdae the You have to need to be
Speaker 1: in this business. You know, staying in is the hardest part.
Speaker 1: This is the business side. But I want to know,
Speaker 1: if I look at some big bands touring today, if
Speaker 1: you look at cold Play, if you look of the
Speaker 1: Dave Matthews band, they broke in the era when there
Speaker 1: was still v H one airplay. Okay, it's very different today.
Speaker 1: So my question to you is, yes, since it's all
Speaker 1: blue blew apart, and certainly within nine years, let's call
Speaker 1: it two thousand and ten. Is anybody out there that
Speaker 1: started at that time that you think is a rock star? Yeah,
Speaker 1: someone who wasn't built on MTV VH one. Brandy Carlyle,
Speaker 1: I agree with you there, But she's been doing it
Speaker 1: a long time. Brandy Carlisle. I think she's amazing to me.
Speaker 1: Like I just recently, you know, UM met her, you know,
Speaker 1: during the whole Grammy time and I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I can't believe I haven't met you before.
Speaker 1: What an incredibly talented person. Well, the other thing she
Speaker 1: emails me and she, you know, it's totally down to earth,
Speaker 1: talks about fishing in this there there isn't that scrim
Speaker 1: between her when you see her and on. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's what I'm talking about. Like, you know, when when
Speaker 1: going back to what a rock star is, rock star
Speaker 1: is just it's just there's a confidence, there's just a thing.
Speaker 1: There's an insecurity, there's a very transparent insecurity. Um and
Speaker 1: then there's just a you know, a person that can
Speaker 1: be in tennis shoes, sitting on a boat fishing like
Speaker 1: Brandy Carlile and be very down to earth and humble.
Speaker 1: But again, you just know there's something different about her.
Speaker 1: There's just something different about Brandy. Jumping off on your point.
Speaker 1: This is one of my theories going back to an
Speaker 1: earlier thing talking about the male musicians of the sixties
Speaker 1: and seventies, a lot of them were very shy. They
Speaker 1: did it to meet girls, and once they became famous,
Speaker 1: met girls and made all this money, and it didn't
Speaker 1: solve their problems. I think that's why they can't write
Speaker 1: the hit it anymore, because it was like that curate
Speaker 1: in front will get there and I'll be happy. Well,
Speaker 1: I think too. A lot of people ask me about,
Speaker 1: you know, do you do a song when you get
Speaker 1: writer's blocked? And I said, I don't get writer's blocked,
Speaker 1: And they're like, why I go Because writer block comes
Speaker 1: from someone who's thinking. I'm not I'm never thinking when
Speaker 1: I'm writing. I mean, I just I'm right now, Thank
Speaker 1: you the universe. Something's going on in my life right
Speaker 1: now where everybody you know, I I said about you know,
Speaker 1: there's been like a seven year span or maybe five
Speaker 1: or something like that, but um, everybody wanted really cut
Speaker 1: and paste top winy kind of music and it's just
Speaker 1: not my thing, Bob. I don't do that, you know.
Speaker 1: And so my wife was like, well, and I was
Speaker 1: kind of showing telling her my frustration, and she's like, well,
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do. I'm like, well, I'm a songwriter.
Speaker 1: People are gonna want songs again, and when they do,
Speaker 1: I'll be here and my phone will start ringing. And
Speaker 1: lately my phone has been ringing. You know, that's a
Speaker 1: great sign for me, because I don't ever follow the trend.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what a fucking trend is. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't know how to be hit if you showed it
Speaker 1: to me and taught me and spent millions of dollars
Speaker 1: helping me get there. I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1: But I do know how to write a song, and
Speaker 1: I know how to connect to people, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: so to me, you can tell them I can go,
Speaker 1: I can leave you, go into that room, go into
Speaker 1: that room, and go into that room, and go into
Speaker 1: that room with seven different people, and I can walk
Speaker 1: out of every room and I can walk out with
Speaker 1: a song. How do you feel about collaboration. I love collaborations.
Speaker 1: I I think that you know, for me, um. The
Speaker 1: collaboration is a very interesting one because there's different different
Speaker 1: levels of what collaboration is. So one would be the
Speaker 1: more you know, normal one where you and I get together,
Speaker 1: we want to write a song, and we sit here,
Speaker 1: you have your guitar, got mine, and we just bounce
Speaker 1: ideas off of we write a song. Great. The other
Speaker 1: collaborate ration is you're over there on your computer typing
Speaker 1: away on doing I don't know what, you know, or instagramming, twittering,
Speaker 1: and I'm out there coming up with the song, and
Speaker 1: you know, I come in and like, okay, here what
Speaker 1: you got, you know, and we talk. But to me,
Speaker 1: I still feel like that's a collaboration because no matter
Speaker 1: what whatever I did out there, I never would have
Speaker 1: done if it wasn't for the energy, you know, of
Speaker 1: the person sitting there. You know, like I really feed
Speaker 1: off the energy of somebody. And then there's the collaborations
Speaker 1: which I don't get involved in, and that's the one
Speaker 1: where everybody and your mother is inside a room trying
Speaker 1: to write a song that really, you know, didn't really
Speaker 1: take seven people to write. Those those collaborations confuse me.
Speaker 1: I don't understand how bad song it takes seven people
Speaker 1: to write a bad song. How about writing yourself? I
Speaker 1: love writing by myself. It's my best work. And I
Speaker 1: think what happen for me is like I went off
Speaker 1: on a tangent of wanting to write with a bunch
Speaker 1: of people, and although I love the songs, that's not
Speaker 1: the point. The thing is, there's something different about when
Speaker 1: you're just by yourself and having your own thought because
Speaker 1: I'm very different in my my My perspective is completely
Speaker 1: different than any of these kids, you know, And I
Speaker 1: don't chase anything. So what happens in some collaborations, I
Speaker 1: find myself having to help someone with a vision that
Speaker 1: may not be that original, and they want to chase
Speaker 1: something that might be already out there in the world,
Speaker 1: and my job is to help take them, you know,
Speaker 1: away from that and distract them and bring them back
Speaker 1: into why don't we just be you? You know? And
Speaker 1: sometimes what happens with that there's a friction because I
Speaker 1: just want to do something original and cool and left
Speaker 1: field and are very fix fixated on tempo subject matter
Speaker 1: and you know, a melodic structure that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: But we talk about earlier inspiration and being driven to
Speaker 1: top something can you do that because I have a
Speaker 1: friend who's a publisher, big guy in Kenna and Michael McCarty,
Speaker 1: and I argue with them all the time. He thinks
Speaker 1: the best songs are done in collaboration, and I don't
Speaker 1: like to collaborate at all. I don't think that that
Speaker 1: is true. I do believe that when you have the
Speaker 1: energy with somebody like um, Alicia more Pink, I collaborated
Speaker 1: really well with her, like we got along great and
Speaker 1: we just instantly did. Alicia Keys and I are great together,
Speaker 1: you know. But my best songs and my biggest songs
Speaker 1: were the ones I wrote by myself. Okay, the next
Speaker 1: question is, obviously you're very experienced. You're never gonna write
Speaker 1: something terrible, But do you know when you're writing something exceptional?
Speaker 1: I feel like I just wrote an exceptional song the
Speaker 1: other day, and um, I and then what happens with
Speaker 1: that is like I cannot be distracted with disappointment if
Speaker 1: somebody doesn't feel that way, because I could say I
Speaker 1: have like probably three albums of songs that didn't make
Speaker 1: it on someone's album, and I'm like, going, are you
Speaker 1: fucking high? You didn't put this? You put that piece
Speaker 1: of sh it on your fucking record and you didn't
Speaker 1: put this. You know. I can go that way, but
Speaker 1: I don't. But it's more like, okay, you know, Um,
Speaker 1: I have like songs that one day I may release
Speaker 1: and go the songs that never made it, you know,
Speaker 1: and do that kind of album and because they're so good.
Speaker 1: But I think they're so good, I just know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm writing every day. I'm not going to write a five,
Speaker 1: but I know when I'm writing an eleven, and you
Speaker 1: can't do it every day. And the funny thing is,
Speaker 1: if all of a sudden you really actually doing something great,
Speaker 1: usually you lose it. Yeah, it's like something that comes
Speaker 1: out of the sky. And the greatness, too, comes from
Speaker 1: when you're not chasing. Lately, I've been really in this
Speaker 1: mode of like, I'm I'm tired. I'm super tired. I
Speaker 1: run a business. I have, I'm my mom. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm writing, I have my studio, I have, I manage
Speaker 1: artists and me and my partner Carrie Brown, Um, you
Speaker 1: know we want run this company. We are here and um,
Speaker 1: we're tired. We haven't slept in two and a half years,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I haven't slept in fifteen. But
Speaker 1: the thing is, when I get tired, I don't know
Speaker 1: what happens, but I'm like, you know, magic, like you know,
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night to three in the morning,
Speaker 1: I'll just pop up. And last night, um, I was
Speaker 1: asked to write a song for Bocelli, and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't want to write a normal song him, you
Speaker 1: know whatever. So I just popped out a bed, you know,
Speaker 1: and I just got something, a sensation, and you know,
Speaker 1: and mind you, I wasn't in bed, I was just
Speaker 1: sitting there and I just it's like two o'clock in
Speaker 1: the morning. I grabbed a guitar, went in the art
Speaker 1: room and sat there and I came up with this
Speaker 1: song that kind of sounded like maybe Roy Orbison would
Speaker 1: sing it. And I was like, awesome, that is great.
Speaker 1: That would have never came to me with the same mind.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, I totally agree. It's like
Speaker 1: in the shower you get good inspiration. It's like when
Speaker 1: you really have to do something, then you go to
Speaker 1: lunch whatever, all of a sudden, at one point, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden inspired you. So you when you when
Speaker 1: you are inspired, the song is written pretty quickly. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: super super quick. And I've been really um in this
Speaker 1: computer right behind me. I have like close to a
Speaker 1: thousand songs that are not finished that I because the
Speaker 1: way I write, I just sit at the piano or
Speaker 1: guitar and I'll just I could do it now, if
Speaker 1: I had a guitar, I could just start writing a
Speaker 1: song and it'll just you'll you'll think I've written this. Alright,
Speaker 1: I'm playing you a song that I wrote, and really
Speaker 1: it's just something that I'm just making up right now
Speaker 1: on the spot. And then I'll get like distracted and
Speaker 1: then like okay, um, let's make a mix of that
Speaker 1: and put it in there. And so a lot of
Speaker 1: them their full formed songs, but I have to go
Speaker 1: back and fix lyrics, you know. So I'm just constantly, constantly,
Speaker 1: They're just constantly coming I I don't I It's like
Speaker 1: it flows, you know, It's always coming out, and it
Speaker 1: gets overwhelming because I get so far behind. So I
Speaker 1: have to tell myself, you gotta write it right now,
Speaker 1: just write it right now. And so now I'm on
Speaker 1: that mode right now where if it comes, I'm just
Speaker 1: writing it right now because I I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've been going through those songs. I'm just going, Oh,
Speaker 1: how am I going to get back to that emotion?
Speaker 1: You know, because you know, you know, it's like I
Speaker 1: have a I have great starting point, but it's like
Speaker 1: where was I at emotionally? Read re read everything twice
Speaker 1: before I send it, and I used to wait a
Speaker 1: day or day or two to reread it, and I
Speaker 1: always funked it up because my head wasn't in the
Speaker 1: same place when I wrote it. Let's go back to
Speaker 1: the beginning. You're originally from Massachusetts. I was born in Springfield, Massages.
Speaker 1: Certainly in Springfield, the home of Friendly ice Cream. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was there one day one year. I was one
Speaker 1: years old, and we moved to San Diego. And so
Speaker 1: how many kids in your family? There's five. I have
Speaker 1: five brothers and one sister. But to my brother's I
Speaker 1: wasn't really raised with okay, because different parents or because
Speaker 1: a lot of different things. And my mother's from Brazil
Speaker 1: and my father's from Portugal, and my mother and father
Speaker 1: met in Brazil. My mom left, she had like probably
Speaker 1: a four different you know, situations happened. Um, there's four
Speaker 1: different fathers, I think with all all seven kids, Um,
Speaker 1: it's very mysterious. You know, the kids were the different fathers.
Speaker 1: Are they in Brazil? No? No, no, so they So
Speaker 1: two of them were left in Brazil and the rest
Speaker 1: of us came. Well, my sister, my brother, and two
Speaker 1: My sister and two brothers came to America. Two were
Speaker 1: left out there, and then me and my brother Jay
Speaker 1: were born in America. So I'm the I am the youngest.
Speaker 1: I'm the baby of seven. Okay, So how did your
Speaker 1: mother meet your father? Um? Well, Bob, that's a very
Speaker 1: questionable um thing that we're trying to figure out. But
Speaker 1: are you My father is not. He passed away about
Speaker 1: ten years ago. My mother has a very questionable um
Speaker 1: past that we can't like. It's I'm telling you, it's
Speaker 1: skeletons in the closet left and right. I I. We
Speaker 1: can't really get a straight answer from that. She's an
Speaker 1: unreliable nere. She's a very unreliable So okay, But they
Speaker 1: then they met in Brazil. My father was in the army,
Speaker 1: and my father designed missiles and radios and computer chips
Speaker 1: and did all that kind of stuff. Um, my father
Speaker 1: was the guy that manned the radios or whatever in
Speaker 1: the submarine and UM. Then he went on to be
Speaker 1: UM does a start designing you know, uh, computers and
Speaker 1: chips and missiles. And so they met there. My mom
Speaker 1: was a model or something to that effect, and they
Speaker 1: met in a very suspicious kind of situation. And UM,
Speaker 1: but my sister and Solomon, Mark and Marcel were already
Speaker 1: with you know, from different fathers, but they were with her,
Speaker 1: with her with her, and then my father met my mom.
Speaker 1: They got pregnant. My mom got pregnant and had my
Speaker 1: brother John. So there are three of us are from
Speaker 1: my dad, so me, my brother John that he manages
Speaker 1: the studio and works with me all the time, and
Speaker 1: my brother Jane myself. So he moved to So yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: just to be clear. So they left two behind in Brazil,
Speaker 1: two behind that were raised to believe that my mom
Speaker 1: was there. Aunt, I understand, do you have have you
Speaker 1: met them? You have any contests? Yes? Then they showed up.
Speaker 1: One showed up when I was five. He was sixteen,
Speaker 1: and my father got him as a president president for
Speaker 1: my mom and surprised her with him and UM, and
Speaker 1: then one was left in Brazil until I was I
Speaker 1: got my first money from foreign on bonds. I paid
Speaker 1: for him to come out here, and then I met
Speaker 1: him when I was like, are they now living in America? Yes,
Speaker 1: now they're Ina. So everybody's in America now, Okay, so
Speaker 1: you're you moved to San Diego. How many brothers and
Speaker 1: sisters are living under the same roof? Um, my immediate fan,
Speaker 1: Emily is my three brothers and my sister, so five
Speaker 1: of us and I'm the youngest. And then my brother
Speaker 1: Mark showed up, and then he was there for a
Speaker 1: little bit, but then left early because he was sixteen already. Okay,
Speaker 1: your father worked for the army, but he's very sophisticated work.
Speaker 1: I assume he left the army. What did he do
Speaker 1: for a little He started working for General Dynamics, and
Speaker 1: then he worked for the government, and like we we
Speaker 1: had to live in China Lake for a while and
Speaker 1: San Diego, as you know, is a very big military town,
Speaker 1: and so it was General Dynamics. And um, my father
Speaker 1: was interesting about him is he didn't teach us anything
Speaker 1: about music, but he was very musically. Um, he was
Speaker 1: very musical man. He loved jazz and he loved um
Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra and just really fancy. He's playing music in
Speaker 1: the house kind of. But he I never really knew
Speaker 1: he played piano unless we went out somewhere he'd see
Speaker 1: a piano and then he'd start playing jazz. And we
Speaker 1: know he never taught us anything. My father he wanted
Speaker 1: to be. He wanted to be where I am probably now,
Speaker 1: and he didn't have the He didn't feel was worth it.
Speaker 1: It was too unreliable, this business, and so he started
Speaker 1: doing all this stuff with the government. And here's the
Speaker 1: funny thing. My life could have been so much different.
Speaker 1: In are all of our lives. But my father he
Speaker 1: was very hip on everything about computers going on, Microsoft,
Speaker 1: mac all of it. He knew um uh mac and
Speaker 1: sorry Macintosh. He knew everything about what was happening they
Speaker 1: were building. He was part of a team that we're
Speaker 1: building computers in the seventies. I mean, he would show
Speaker 1: us these prototypes of the phone where you pick up
Speaker 1: the phone and you could see someone inside the TV
Speaker 1: and then the other person would be like know down
Speaker 1: the street, like that was made. And so my father
Speaker 1: had an opportunity to invest in all that and he
Speaker 1: did not. And it's like one of those things like
Speaker 1: you know, and I love my life, I wouldn't change
Speaker 1: it for anything, But I feel bad for him. Like,
Speaker 1: my dad could invested five dollars and he would probably
Speaker 1: be a billionaire right now. He knew everything. He was
Speaker 1: in the company that was turning into you know what
Speaker 1: is one of the biggest companies. You know, so, uh,
Speaker 1: you're growing up in the house, it sounds like money
Speaker 1: was not the number one issue or no, we didn't
Speaker 1: have any money. That's the bummer part. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: we were on welfare. You know, my father bragged about
Speaker 1: money all the time, but he was spending it at
Speaker 1: the bar with his buddies. And you know, because he
Speaker 1: my dad wanted to be in a brat brat pack,
Speaker 1: you know, like this fantasy was he was. He had
Speaker 1: a very mafia thing. I think he actually had something
Speaker 1: going on, you know, where he was kind of like
Speaker 1: one of those guys. And and so when he was
Speaker 1: at the bar, like everybody knew my dad, he was
Speaker 1: very flamboyant. But we would be home with powdered milk
Speaker 1: and eating tuna, you know, a bazillion different ways, and
Speaker 1: spam and all this stuff, and it was very very
Speaker 1: my mother was very upset all the time, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's like what are you doing your kids don't
Speaker 1: have clothes? I mean we learned how to steal, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean it was like very you know my upbringing
Speaker 1: is it's funny now, um, but it was funny then too,
Speaker 1: you know, being woken up and to go steal plants,
Speaker 1: you know, from the nursery, so we could resell them
Speaker 1: to make money, you know, to eat or get clothes.
Speaker 1: Like we are very very crafty. Um. So my father
Speaker 1: he you know, I got it. I understood what he
Speaker 1: was trying to do. He was not a happy man
Speaker 1: and the only thing that made him happy was being
Speaker 1: able to act like he was a hot shot. So okay,
Speaker 1: did your parents remain married? No, they got divorced when
Speaker 1: I was ten, and I was so excited about it
Speaker 1: because all they did was fight, and so they got divorced.
Speaker 1: But they always remained like literally a mile away from
Speaker 1: each other, very codependent, until the day my father passed away.
Speaker 1: Did they ever get remarried or another have a boyfriend
Speaker 1: or girlfriend? My mom did not my father. Okay, once
Speaker 1: you separated, refinances better or worse? Um, well worse because
Speaker 1: then we had nothing. Um, and my mom almost got
Speaker 1: taken away by the you know, government or because she
Speaker 1: was being you know, she had to use a different
Speaker 1: name to collect more welfare. So she was getting welfare
Speaker 1: from two different names, and they got on to her
Speaker 1: and I remember these you know men coming to our
Speaker 1: house and basically wanting to rest my mom right there
Speaker 1: and um for fraud in So she got out of it,
Speaker 1: and UM figured I don't know, actually I still don't
Speaker 1: know what happened, to be honest, um, but I remember
Speaker 1: her returning and she never had to go to jail,
Speaker 1: So um there was. My mom was very very She's
Speaker 1: a survivor, incredibly powerful, strong woman, and you know, came
Speaker 1: to this country not knowing once, not one word of English.
Speaker 1: My father never taught it to her, and we weren't
Speaker 1: allowed to speak Brazilian so Portuguese, so my mother had
Speaker 1: to learn how to English, you know, through us kind
Speaker 1: of talking and on TV. And then it made it
Speaker 1: very difficult because sometimes I'll be talking and um, you know,
Speaker 1: people will make fun of like certain words I'll say,
Speaker 1: and I'll say the word and I'm like, well that's
Speaker 1: the way I learned it because my mom, you know,
Speaker 1: I was raised well I always say motorcycle, you know,
Speaker 1: like I say mortar and you know, my mom, and
Speaker 1: refrigerator was really really hard. It was he freezer door,
Speaker 1: you know. You know, so it's like, you know, so
Speaker 1: it's like and we were raised to believe that toilet
Speaker 1: paper was called Holy Papelle and like a lot of
Speaker 1: like you know, the pun of Punta LEAs, you know,
Speaker 1: like all these weird little things. And I was like, no, okay,
Speaker 1: that's not it. Alright, no problem. But um anyways, but
Speaker 1: very very um, you know, she was very unique, is
Speaker 1: very unique, very um what kind of relationship do you
Speaker 1: have with her? I have a great I have a
Speaker 1: good relationship with her. Now, Like you know, I'm such
Speaker 1: an aries, like I just want to know everything. I
Speaker 1: don't like I don't I don't like not knowing the
Speaker 1: answers to certain things. And there's so many unanswered questions
Speaker 1: and in our childhood and and and so I probably
Speaker 1: developed a bad relationship with her because she just wouldn't
Speaker 1: give me the information and I can't stand it, you know.
Speaker 1: And so then I just let it go. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know what, you you you figure out your life, mom,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna I'm good. Okay. So with lack
Speaker 1: of money, and that many kids. To what degree were
Speaker 1: you on your own as opposed to you know, parents
Speaker 1: watching over you or well none of us graduated school.
Speaker 1: You know, I was out on eighth grade. I think
Speaker 1: I ditched out and I couldn't take it anymore because
Speaker 1: I just I wasn't developing my brain in that way.
Speaker 1: Like it's very hard for me to learn. Um, I
Speaker 1: get very mixed up in my head. I have to
Speaker 1: do everything myself, um in order to understand what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: Um So, I had a lot of problems in school
Speaker 1: for not being able to uh do homework or answer
Speaker 1: questions properly. But for some reason, tests I would always pass,
Speaker 1: and I did test based on instinct, you know, I
Speaker 1: was just like, Okay, I'm going to answer this, and
Speaker 1: I always seem to be really good at that. Um.
Speaker 1: But um so I left in then. Well, but usually
Speaker 1: in America, you have to go to school to your
Speaker 1: sixteen Yeah no, no, the truant officer never came looking
Speaker 1: for you. If your parents don't complain back then, we
Speaker 1: never Okay, so you drop out of school primarily because
Speaker 1: it doesn't align with what are you gonna do for money? Well,
Speaker 1: just go get a job like age fourteen, got a
Speaker 1: lot of jobs, Like what kind of jobs you do?
Speaker 1: I did boat work and I used to sit on
Speaker 1: a dock and you clean boats. Do you have any
Speaker 1: regrets that you didn't go to school? Not at all. No,
Speaker 1: I don't. And how about your children? Do you think
Speaker 1: they should go to school? Of course, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't mean, but I wasn't. I said, my children have
Speaker 1: a completely different life, you know. Um, I was very
Speaker 1: I didn't have things, you know, so you when you
Speaker 1: are not living. I mean, it's very very different, you
Speaker 1: know back then. And um, I mean life was very
Speaker 1: very different back then. You know, the way you're brought up,
Speaker 1: the way you know, punishment, parenting, all of it was.
Speaker 1: I mean, und today's an abused child. Oh yeah, my
Speaker 1: mom would be in prison, you know. And um, so
Speaker 1: you know you have to I grew up very fast.
Speaker 1: I look at my son, he's four years old. One
Speaker 1: more year, he's gonna be five years old. And what
Speaker 1: I was down the street hanging out all day long
Speaker 1: at five years old. I would never ever let my
Speaker 1: son go down the street and hang out and to
Speaker 1: show come back, you know, like it would just never happen.
Speaker 1: If I laugh about it. Now I'm just like going,
Speaker 1: Holy Cow, you know, and um, but yes, of course
Speaker 1: they should go to school because it's like it is
Speaker 1: important and for many things I I try. I kept
Speaker 1: trying to go back to school just to meet friends
Speaker 1: because I was lonely. I mean, I didn't have any friends.
Speaker 1: So I would go back to school and I would
Speaker 1: you know, just hang out and then they would let
Speaker 1: me back in, you know, of course they're gonna let
Speaker 1: me back in there. And then the president, I mean,
Speaker 1: the what's his name that the principles I don't even
Speaker 1: know principle would come in asked me to come in.
Speaker 1: He's like, why are you here? And I'm like to
Speaker 1: meet people and he's like, you know, school is not
Speaker 1: for to sit here and meet people and you're wasting
Speaker 1: our time. And I'm like, but I'm not even in
Speaker 1: the classes, so how am I wasting anybody's time? You know?
Speaker 1: But I couldn't just look then I was considered loitering,
Speaker 1: you know, at school on campus. So anyway, so it
Speaker 1: was fun, But honestly, I knew at a very very
Speaker 1: early age this kind of stuff is not going to
Speaker 1: be useful for me. I don't I don't need to
Speaker 1: bother myself. Okay, so when you start paying music, so
Speaker 1: then you know, I've always played music, so my whole life,
Speaker 1: I've always dabbled in it in some way. No, never
Speaker 1: I we can afford that. I remember wanting to have
Speaker 1: piano lessons. It was very attracted to piano, and we
Speaker 1: we just couldn't, you know, because you have to get
Speaker 1: a piano and just that just wouldn't happened. Then I
Speaker 1: wanted to play violin, very expensive instrument, and um, my
Speaker 1: mom thought it was masculine. I think she was just
Speaker 1: trying to get me out of not wanting anything that
Speaker 1: has going to cost money. So you know, I just
Speaker 1: kind of, um we my mom bought me a little
Speaker 1: baby guitar from Tijuana, UM, for Christmas, and I just
Speaker 1: started playing that. My brother John is extremely gifted in
Speaker 1: that area, and he got a guitar and he joined
Speaker 1: a band and he was awesome. He had the hair,
Speaker 1: the chicks, all of it. And I'm like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be like my brother. And so I just started, you know,
Speaker 1: learning by ear and um. Then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I just was writing songs at like fifteen sixteen, and um,
Speaker 1: but I didn't think that was my thing because it
Speaker 1: was so easy. Of course, that's not what you do.
Speaker 1: It's just this is part of me, like brushing my
Speaker 1: teeth whatever. Um, it wasn't until I'm to San Francisco
Speaker 1: did I go, oh, I'm gonna be a rock star.
Speaker 1: How old were you when you moved to San Francisco
Speaker 1: with all these other family You're very successful, both in
Speaker 1: terms of celebrity and finance whatever. Anybody else in the
Speaker 1: family successful? And to what degree is to people in
Speaker 1: your family hit you up for money? Um, I take
Speaker 1: care of my mom. I always have. She doesn't hit
Speaker 1: me up. It's it is my joy to take care
Speaker 1: of my mother. Um, I have a you know, a
Speaker 1: couple siblings in there that may take advantage of the situation,
Speaker 1: but I throw boundaries down. Now. My brother John is
Speaker 1: way more successful than I am because he is so
Speaker 1: he has such a I mean, I have a now
Speaker 1: that I have my family, But he I just watched him.
Speaker 1: He has a whole life, you know, he does all
Speaker 1: these things. I mean, I just kind of his life
Speaker 1: seems so simple, and I find it to be so
Speaker 1: successful because I don't even know what success is anymore.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't understand when all this is going
Speaker 1: to be enough? When when can I take my hat
Speaker 1: off and just relax and take a break. So you've
Speaker 1: had a lot of success, especially compared to people outside
Speaker 1: the business, never mind inside the business. Are you saying
Speaker 1: it doesn't fill a hole in you? It is incredibly
Speaker 1: humbling for me, always my every day I wake up,
Speaker 1: I'm very humbled. Um, I'm very humble. I'm very um.
Speaker 1: I have a lot of gratitude and I um, I
Speaker 1: just don't think I'm at the level that I would
Speaker 1: like to be at. And I guess some people would
Speaker 1: say I'm successful you talk about business or emotionally just
Speaker 1: with my my my career. Um, so let's just stay there.
Speaker 1: What is the dream? Because we're blue sky and it Well,
Speaker 1: that's the problem that every time I reached the dream,
Speaker 1: a new dreams shows up. So would have been some
Speaker 1: of the past dreams? Oh to being a successful rock
Speaker 1: and roll band and you know, sell millions of records
Speaker 1: and tour and travel around the world. Okay, that was
Speaker 1: that was very successful. You were all over MTV. How
Speaker 1: hard was it to leave for non blondes? Oh, it
Speaker 1: wasn't easy at all. I mean I mean suscratch that
Speaker 1: sorry backwards flip it. It was very easy and you
Speaker 1: felt that you would just go on to more success. No, no,
Speaker 1: I didn't think that. I felt that I needed to
Speaker 1: leave the band because it was a detour I wasn't
Speaker 1: supposed to. That was not my destiny. I felt my
Speaker 1: my whole thing is. I felt that I was going
Speaker 1: to be a rock star, no Matt with I was
Speaker 1: gonna be famous with or without for an on Blondes.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I feel like, oh, if I didn't hop on
Speaker 1: that boat, I wonder what would have happened. But I
Speaker 1: don't live and wondering what ifs. So for me, leaving
Speaker 1: the band was extremely important because I needed to get
Speaker 1: back on my path. My path was never to share
Speaker 1: the stage with three other people. When I won my award,
Speaker 1: I was bringing my mom on and when everybody else
Speaker 1: started saying, Oh, I'm gonna bring my mom onto, it
Speaker 1: was like, wait, what, No, that's my dream. I A'm
Speaker 1: bringing my mom on stage. You know, you guys, my
Speaker 1: dream doesn't have you guys on stage with your mom's too,
Speaker 1: you know, so literally, you know, I came back from
Speaker 1: somewhere and I said I want to play Carnegie Hall.
Speaker 1: I wanna. I want to look out on the audience
Speaker 1: and see dresses and and tuxedos, and I want this
Speaker 1: incredible orchestra up behind me and this incredible band, and
Speaker 1: I just want to be, you know, seeing in Carnegie Hall,
Speaker 1: to just in this incredible people who are listening to
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Literally two weeks later, Roger Dalstree calls
Speaker 1: me up and asked me to participate in this fiftieth
Speaker 1: Birthday at Carnegie Hall with Michael Caman conducting. You know
Speaker 1: this anything about Michael After doing Mr Holland's Opus film,
Speaker 1: he started a foundation to give instruments to underprivileged people.
Speaker 1: And my girlfriend runs that interesting how it comes to okay,
Speaker 1: but okay. One dream was to be a rock star.
Speaker 1: One dream was to be on Carnegie Hole. Well its
Speaker 1: been some of the recent dreams. Um. Well, right now
Speaker 1: I'm really working hard to My dream is that when
Speaker 1: my son, which is, like I said, four years old,
Speaker 1: that is showing interest in music right now, he's he's
Speaker 1: writing songs like him and I lay in bed and
Speaker 1: we make up songs and he's singing all day long.
Speaker 1: You know, I can cry right now thinking about it.
Speaker 1: Like he I know, he's desk. I mean, I didn't
Speaker 1: have this child. My wife is not musical at all,
Speaker 1: and she had him. There's not a musical bone in
Speaker 1: that woman's body, you know. But this this kid is
Speaker 1: my child, you know, and he My dream is that
Speaker 1: when he decides to be in this business, that there
Speaker 1: is a business for him to come to. There's a
Speaker 1: uh talking about the business the studio or music in general,
Speaker 1: music in general, that there is a lucrative business for
Speaker 1: him to or or you know, to have a career
Speaker 1: or two or an audience that's gonna listen. That that
Speaker 1: that you know, um uh, holograms aren't taking over the
Speaker 1: you know, who fucking knows? Man, who fucking knows that
Speaker 1: fucking fifteen years from now, instead of wasting our time
Speaker 1: with artists, Oh there's such trouble and it costs so
Speaker 1: much money. I'm just going to buy your likeness and
Speaker 1: I'm just going to you know, pod you down onto
Speaker 1: a fucking stage. And that's what's gonna be. The new
Speaker 1: normal is seeing anybody that you want, anywhere you want,
Speaker 1: because there what is that fucking your three D hologram
Speaker 1: of whatever artists that you want? That's going to be
Speaker 1: the new thing. I'm I actually feel it's actually in
Speaker 1: the process of being made right now. It has to
Speaker 1: be the only the only interesting thing is Generation Z
Speaker 1: and the Millennials are really into experiences, and I find
Speaker 1: what resonates most is authentic stuff. People with credibility playing
Speaker 1: real instruments on the same time, and I totally understand E.
Speaker 1: D C. Meaning the Electric Daisy Carnival. With that, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of experimentation, but in between, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of crap, you know. There again, I'm I love all music,
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong. I love it all, you know,
Speaker 1: all of it. And I appreciate anybody who can write
Speaker 1: a song and and that a good song, a decent song. Um.
Speaker 1: But my dream is to be able to do the
Speaker 1: groundwork right now. I I gotta I gotta start working
Speaker 1: right now. You know, there's a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of miles to cover to make sure you know that
Speaker 1: there is uh, you know, a business sort of say
Speaker 1: for him to jump on stage and go and do this.
Speaker 1: And mind you, I believe an artist as an artist
Speaker 1: and you can perform in your garage or anywhere you want.
Speaker 1: Money should not be the driving force of any artists.
Speaker 1: And that's what I teach my kids, and that's what
Speaker 1: I always tell them. Don't go into this business if
Speaker 1: you think you're gonna go make millions of dollars, because then,
Speaker 1: right now then your intention is wrong. You're going in
Speaker 1: with the wrong intention. Go into it because your heart
Speaker 1: can't be anywhere else. Go into this because your heart,
Speaker 1: it would break if you weren't singing or performing or
Speaker 1: playing music or writing or playing piano for somebody. If
Speaker 1: your heart is breaking because you're not there, then that
Speaker 1: is the right time. That's when you're you mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1: You know you're working very hard. You're burning the candle
Speaker 1: on both ends. You'd like to take off your hat
Speaker 1: and relax. The You're always wearing a hat. What's up
Speaker 1: with that? Well, Bob, I've always loved hats. I hate
Speaker 1: my hair. I do have hair, but I can't stand it.
Speaker 1: I've had dreads, I've had mohawks, I've had mullets, I've
Speaker 1: had them all, and hats just make me feel good.
Speaker 1: And I do also think I'm extremely sensitive, so I
Speaker 1: think I psychically feel like my hat covers my my
Speaker 1: spiritual like you know, vessel or channel or whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it um, And so it's kind of
Speaker 1: a protection. And I take off my hat when I
Speaker 1: go home, and my son always knows. Is like, if
Speaker 1: I take off my hat, he knows I'm home. But
Speaker 1: if I leave my hat on, he knows I'm going somewhere. Okay,
Speaker 1: So essentially, when you leave the house, there's never a
Speaker 1: time you leave without the hat. What if you go
Speaker 1: on vacation with your kids, I have my head on.
Speaker 1: I don't do First of all, Bob, I don't do vacation.
Speaker 1: I haven't had a vacation in in years. You know,
Speaker 1: you feel like you're missing something, but when you come back,
Speaker 1: you have an incredible burst of inspiration. Yeah no, I
Speaker 1: know that, and um, but I honestly, I love my family.
Speaker 1: I love being home, and I love I love what
Speaker 1: I do. I like I don't feel like i'm working.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm one of those people that are, like,
Speaker 1: you know, at Disneyland fucking seven. And it's like I'm
Speaker 1: waiting to get kicked out. And until I'm kicked out,
Speaker 1: I'm going to stay in here and take as much
Speaker 1: advantage of all these rides as I possibly can. And
Speaker 1: I'm gonna know all of them inside it out. And
Speaker 1: I feel like a measure of success for me is
Speaker 1: when I, you know, die. Basically, you have hit blonde,
Speaker 1: you leave for blondes, and at some point you transition
Speaker 1: to not being a performer and being a songwriter. Tell
Speaker 1: me about that. That was super easy because I didn't
Speaker 1: like performing. I don't I don't, Bob, I don't like
Speaker 1: being told what to do. Let's just be clear with
Speaker 1: that as an artist. As an artist, I was being
Speaker 1: told what to do, where to go, and I was
Speaker 1: I was fucking cattled and proud all the time. And
Speaker 1: that did not sit well with me. And when I perform,
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a special you know time where
Speaker 1: I'm feeling it and then you know, you there's those
Speaker 1: times you just have to perform because you're obligated to
Speaker 1: do that and you made the commitment. I get it.
Speaker 1: I'm doing that fine. And it just didn't I don't know.
Speaker 1: My ego didn't need it. My ego felt like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm good? Do you miss it? Now? Okay?
Speaker 1: So how do you uh become a writer with other
Speaker 1: or four other people? I just started writing songs and
Speaker 1: then I played a song to Pink and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, Bam, I'm the biggest songwriter, you know,
Speaker 1: the person to call because I had a very successful
Speaker 1: you know she you know, the thing is is like
Speaker 1: Alicia had, you know, her biggest was like I think
Speaker 1: she sold maybe one point eight million records as the
Speaker 1: R and b bling bling ching ching, and when I
Speaker 1: showed up, I changed everything about you know, and she
Speaker 1: sold I think twelve million records right off the bat.
Speaker 1: So that's pretty successful. And I think that of course
Speaker 1: people are gonna call me. And then Christina I had
Speaker 1: a big hit with her, and then Gwen and then
Speaker 1: Alicia Keys and you know, everything's just kind of started.
Speaker 1: But my biggest hits were those you know, the phone
Speaker 1: ring as much or the email coming in as much
Speaker 1: as it has at other previous times when you've had hits.
Speaker 1: Now yeah, so people are looking for you. So how
Speaker 1: do you decide what to work on? Well, I'm very
Speaker 1: particular right now. I'm so focused on my artists. In
Speaker 1: our label. We have Natasha Benningfield. I just wrote a
Speaker 1: really great and produced a really great record with her.
Speaker 1: We we jelled so well in the studio and I
Speaker 1: mean it's a great album. So we're very excited about that.
Speaker 1: She signed who we are here? And um, we have
Speaker 1: an artist named Jesse Joe Stark and she's a new
Speaker 1: artist but very very cool, really great vibe, and all
Speaker 1: of our artists don't need Linda, and that's what we
Speaker 1: look for. I have an artist that I found her
Speaker 1: when she was twelve. Her name is will m I.
Speaker 1: She's fifteen now. She just played Ellen, just played the
Speaker 1: Today Show. I didn't write a thing. I just helped her,
Speaker 1: so me and my partner Kerry, and then we have
Speaker 1: about eleven people that work with us. So you're not
Speaker 1: aligned with any of the majors. No, only in Europe.
Speaker 1: We had to And now you're talking about making albums
Speaker 1: in today's internet. We own a record pressing plant, by
Speaker 1: the way, so we print vinyl. Okay, without getting into vinyl.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about albums relative to singles? I
Speaker 1: could really give a ship about a single. I don't
Speaker 1: even understand what a single means nowadays anyways, it's like
Speaker 1: every label wants to put out a single every other week,
Speaker 1: it seems, or every week. Um, nobody is again preserving
Speaker 1: the art of you know, an album and the reason
Speaker 1: why everybody's running in fear right now is because nobody's
Speaker 1: making albums. They don't understand how to those those I
Speaker 1: think people forget that the single is the main character. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's put it in a movie mode, right, the single
Speaker 1: is the main care that's your big actor. That's your
Speaker 1: Hollywood actor right there. And then the co actor, what
Speaker 1: do you call him? Is you know your other big star?
Speaker 1: So that's your second single, is right? But then in
Speaker 1: order to make a great movie you have to have
Speaker 1: a great cast. Well, I'll get a great support the album.
Speaker 1: And without that cast and that story, well, I would
Speaker 1: say with streaming, it's about the body of work. If
Speaker 1: someone listens to a song they like, they'll go deeper
Speaker 1: and deeper. Yes, so I'm not sure I understand. Once
Speaker 1: you get in the groove, you're making an album. But
Speaker 1: the problem is we live in an attention based economy,
Speaker 1: and if you put out an album and you don't
Speaker 1: do something for a year or two, then you don't
Speaker 1: have the same top of mine. That's not true. That's
Speaker 1: not true. That's what we're told, but that's not true.
Speaker 1: I mean, let's just take Adell for instance, A l
Speaker 1: disappeared for three years. I think it took for her
Speaker 1: to from from nineteen to one. But I would I
Speaker 1: mean that was a big and then that album broke
Speaker 1: all major records out there. I would agree with your point,
Speaker 1: but I would shift it to another point. There's only
Speaker 1: one Adele. Why is that? She is a good singer.
Speaker 1: Most of the songs have melody. No one else is
Speaker 1: doing that exactly. No one else, how come is doing it?
Speaker 1: So how come no one else follows? Because Adele is
Speaker 1: a rare situation because she doesn't care. She doesn't care
Speaker 1: for label saying I need an album out now, she says,
Speaker 1: fuck you. I'll give you an album when I'm ready. Now.
Speaker 1: Most people are afraid. They're operating from fear. So when
Speaker 1: so and so tells their artists, I need an album
Speaker 1: next week through she okay, I don't want to get
Speaker 1: dropped out of blah blah blah blah. They run operate everything.
Speaker 1: Everything is operated and fucking fear. Right now, it's a
Speaker 1: fear based business. That's why it's it's it's in the
Speaker 1: condition that it's in. Now. You've got this new breed
Speaker 1: of kids that are coming in that are going back
Speaker 1: that like bands like Greta Van Fleet because they love Zeppelin,
Speaker 1: you know. Now, I don't know Greta Van Fleet, I
Speaker 1: know Zeppelin, but I'm pretty impressed that those guys came
Speaker 1: into the picture during a time when rock and roll
Speaker 1: was very, very dead and no guitars, and they're like
Speaker 1: blew up and you know, and so what they did
Speaker 1: is reintroduced guitars, and so now there's guitars coming back.
Speaker 1: Albums are gonna come back, Bob. I'm telling you, they're
Speaker 1: coming back. Artists, rock stars are coming. Vinyl is here
Speaker 1: and very alive, and there's a lot of things going
Speaker 1: on there that a lot of people are are don't
Speaker 1: know about with vinyl. You know, labels are looking at
Speaker 1: vinyl right now as the ticket out of giving their
Speaker 1: artists something an edge. You know, it's like a fucking edge.
Speaker 1: It's a fucking album, dick head. You know that's what
Speaker 1: an album is. The album they're calling an album now
Speaker 1: the okay, would you consider yourself to be an optimistic
Speaker 1: person or a pessimistic person? I am fucking both, man,
Speaker 1: I'm like the most I am. I am both because
Speaker 1: I love music and I have to believe that it's
Speaker 1: it's gonna be okay. And mind you, this is again,
Speaker 1: it's just my opinion. I mean, people could be listening
Speaker 1: right now, going what's she talking about? Sucking music is
Speaker 1: thriving in the best and there's so many great bands,
Speaker 1: and you're probably right, But in my world, I'm seeing
Speaker 1: it different. You and I are not looking at this
Speaker 1: room the same at all. There's no there's it's impossible
Speaker 1: for you and I to see this room exactly in
Speaker 1: the same perspective, same point of you. We are looking
Speaker 1: and walking in life on a daily basis, seeing the
Speaker 1: exact same things very different. This is my perspective. My
Speaker 1: perspective is I see a very we're walking a very
Speaker 1: fine line right now of where we can go and
Speaker 1: if we don't raise the bar, and if we don't
Speaker 1: start telling these kids to raise the bar, because I'm
Speaker 1: going to be that person. I'm gonna be the person
Speaker 1: that's telling people to raise the bar, that we need
Speaker 1: to be better. And you can laugh at me, or
Speaker 1: you can tell me that the bar is being raised,
Speaker 1: and that's great. You be that person to tell everybody
Speaker 1: everything's okay. But I'm gonna be telling everybody everything will
Speaker 1: be okay if we start raising the bar, if we
Speaker 1: start the Beatles are the Beatles, because no one's ever
Speaker 1: beaten the Beatles. We've only gone down and down and
Speaker 1: down and down and down. You know, Oasis is the
Speaker 1: first band I ever saw that try to actually say
Speaker 1: they were better than the Beatles, and I fucking love
Speaker 1: them for that. I love those guys for that. What
Speaker 1: fucking alls? Okay, I think we've come to the end
Speaker 1: of the feeling we've known. We could literally go on forever.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for talking to me until next time.
Speaker 1: That's Linda Perry on the Bob Left Sets podcast. Thank you.