1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samitha and welcome to Stephane 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: Never Told your protection of I Heart Radio. For today's 3 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: book Club, we wanted to talk about the legendary Bell 4 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: Hooks and her work feminism is for everybody passionate politics, 5 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: and we could do a whole episode on bell Hooks, 6 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: and we probably definitely should. Yes, this episode is already 7 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: quite long, because even though this book is a short, 8 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: accessible primer on feminism and why it's so important in 9 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: terms of ending sexism and oppression, there's a lot to 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: talk about. She packs a lot in not too long 11 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: of a book she has. She's one of those that 12 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: just says a sentence and it's literal, three hour conversation 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: and breaking down that sense it was. It was a wonderful, 14 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: wonderful reading, and it was very like it did bring 15 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: up a lot of questions and thoughts and I got 16 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: wrestling up in my braining about things, um, which is good. 17 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: I think that's an excellent sign of a great book. 18 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: This book touches on history, intersectionality, accessibility, education, reproductive rights, beauty, 19 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: class politics, globalism, women in the workplace, race, gender violence, 20 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: feminist masculinity, feminist parenting, marriage, and partnership, sexual agency, love 21 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: and spirituality. And again I think it's ages. So she does, 22 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: she accomplishes a lot, so that of course this is 23 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: one of her later books, so it is books, so 24 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: one of her later published books. So I think she's 25 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: trying to summarize it, but it's obvious as you and 26 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: I've talked about. What she's talking about is people being 27 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: afraid and has been villainizing the word feminism. Associate came 28 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: back like, this is a structure, this is the originality, 29 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: kind of reminding us what it is. Yes, And I 30 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: think so many of us, you and I and our 31 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: listeners can and do relate to the struggle she's describing 32 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: of encountering people who are like but feminism means I 33 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: hate man. Yes. And Bell Hooks is and has been 34 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: doing the work in the world of feminism for over 35 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: forty years. She is a cultural critic and a feminist 36 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: author who has written books such as Ain't I A Woman? 37 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: Black Women, and Feminism, All About Love, Bone, Black Rock, 38 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: My Soul, We Real, Cool, Belonging Where We Stand, Teaching 39 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: to Transgress, teaching community outlaw culture, and real Too Real 40 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: and that being real R E E L Too Real, 41 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: R e a l. Yeah, I've realized I have missed 42 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: out and not reading all of her stuff previously, so 43 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: let's jump in. So in the forward to the new 44 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: edition of Feminism Is for Everybody, Hooks explained her reason 45 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: for writing it. She writes, from the very onset of 46 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: my engagement with feminist practice, I was most excited about 47 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: building a mass feminist movement, believing at twenty years old 48 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: that it was feminist movement for social justice that could 49 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: change all our lives. I worked in visioned ways of 50 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: bringing the meaning of feminist thinking and practice to a 51 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: larger audience to the masses. And while much of my 52 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: work did reach folks who had not yet thought about feminism, 53 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: especially black folks, the fact that almost all my work 54 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: was written while I was a student or a professor 55 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: meant that I did not always reach the larger audience. Yeah, 56 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,519 Speaker 1: which I thought was really interesting. She talked about that 57 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: about how academia can be intimidating and not accessible. So 58 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: she goes on describing her introduction to feminism. When I 59 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: think that, yes, a lot of us can relate to 60 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: I came to full feminist consciousness as an undergraduate. My 61 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: mind changed and altered by women's studies classes, by the 62 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: books we read. However, born into a family with six 63 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: girls and one boy, I wanted my mama, my siblings, 64 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: everyone I knew to be as intoxicated with feminist thinking 65 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: as I was. The picture on the cover of this 66 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: book is of me and my best friend from our 67 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: first year of college. Race did not stand in the 68 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: way of our bonding, as it was shared working class 69 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: issues that brought us together. We are in our late teens, 70 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: almost twenty in this photo. When I became excited about feminism, 71 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 1: April came with me to feminist conferences to learn what 72 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: it was all about. After more than forty years, we 73 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: are still attending feminist lectures together. We learned the truism 74 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: that sister is powerful by learning and experiencing life's journey together. Yeah, 75 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: you know, I was thinking when she was talking about 76 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: wanting everybody to know and about the women's studies class. 77 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: I remember my women's studies class. I loved it. I 78 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: loved everything reading it, and I was really on point 79 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: in uh what now? I would write essays. To be fair, 80 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: I'm an Asian woman talking to her. She was a 81 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: white woman, So I feel like my perspective helped in 82 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: that because we were coming and talking about intersectionality. That 83 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: was it was two early two thousand's when I was 84 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: taking these classes. I don't know about you, but there 85 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: is an episode in Parts and Wreck where Andy, it's 86 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: trying to take a course and found himself really caught 87 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: up in the women's studies class. Of course, it was 88 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: very generic and what they were teaching at that point 89 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: in time, but I love that it kind of talked 90 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: about how, oh wow, this is something so new and 91 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: new perspective that all of them weren't, like, really dumbfounded 92 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: by it. And I feel like we've all had those 93 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: moments when you see a different perspective and are truly learning. 94 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: And I feel like Women's Studies is definitely but for 95 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: some reason, when she was talking about her love that, 96 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: that's what popped in my head, like all the awe struck. 97 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: So Hooks also described another thing many of us can 98 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: relate to, encountering confusion around what feminism is in their 99 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: friends circles or sometimes outright hostility, and wanting the tools 100 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: to combat that and any You and I've talked about 101 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: this so often to the point that it was our 102 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: first episode together. Yeah, it's trying to understand it. Yeah, 103 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: it's absolutely when she was talking about why she wrote 104 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: this book or experience in college, and this whole sentiment 105 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: of people just when she would tell them what she 106 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: was interested in or what she was working in and 107 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: kind of misunderstanding it. I relate so strongly to that, 108 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: and I know you do too, and I think a 109 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: lot of listeners do. And I had a very similar experience. 110 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: I also, it was kind of wary of the word 111 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: feminist until I went to college, and even then I 112 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: was like, I felt like I was one, but I 113 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: was a little nervous, like announcer. And I feel like 114 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: she also, and I know we're going to talk about this, 115 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: helped to redefine the terms of feminism with the intersectionality 116 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: of it all um and her own experiences and being 117 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: a black woman in academia when it wasn't accepted for 118 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: black women to be in academia, especially when it comes 119 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: to the writing world, which I just saw a recent 120 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: article I haven't read it about people of color and 121 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: journalism and how it's been affecting them. So I found 122 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: this very fascinating because it's so on point, and she 123 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: as being one of the faces of intersectional feminism as 124 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: well as black civil rights activists. I feel like really 125 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: helped redefine what this wave is and why it's so 126 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,239 Speaker 1: important that we are able to redefine what we thought 127 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: of it originally, the origination of feminism and white feminism, 128 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: and why so different that I think it's important, And 129 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: she is definitely a forefront of this movement. But going 130 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: on to what she writes, but feminist theories, that's the 131 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: place where the questions stopped. Instead, I tend to hear 132 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: all about the evil of feminism and the bad feminists, 133 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: how they hate men, how they are all lesbians, how 134 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: they are taking all the jobs and making the world 135 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: hard for white men who do not stand a chance, 136 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: which is hilarious in itself. That's my own side note 137 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: again going back to what she says, they do not 138 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: even think about feminism as being about rights, about women 139 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: gaining equal rights. When I talk about the feminism I 140 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: know up close and personal, they willingly listen. Although when 141 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: our conversations and they're quick to tell me I'm different, 142 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: not like the real feminists who hate men who are angry. 143 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: I assure them I am as real and as radical 144 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: as a feminist as one can be, and if they 145 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: dare to come closer to feminism, they will see it 146 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: not how they have imagined. It sound familiar and she 147 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: kept waiting for books to appear that she could point 148 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: to people. I think we've talked about this so many times, 149 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: and when it didn't, she took matters into her own hands, 150 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: which is what we talked about so many phenomenal women 151 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: who are making changes, and so to answer these questions 152 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: in a concise manner, she wrote this book and then, y'all, 153 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: she does a great job with it and entreaty and 154 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: an invitation to bring everyone closer to feminism. Um, and 155 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: she is in her element, obviously, the years of experience 156 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: and writing, teaching and feminism is evident throughout. She describes 157 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: the influence coming from a family that was mostly girls 158 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: and women and how jarring it was for her to 159 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: go to Stanford University and receiving this messaging that women 160 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: men were lesser. Just for her, Black women were even lesser, 161 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: and she talks about that as well. Yeah, and one 162 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: of the delights of reading this book was remembering past 163 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 1: books we've read in in this sminthy book club where 164 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: black women and specifically I've said, like, she was so 165 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 1: important and influential to them, so it was cool to 166 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: like see her influence kind of play out and other 167 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: black women feminist thinkers specifically in this case. But just yeah, 168 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: she's been involved in this world for so long, and 169 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: she's been involved in education for so long, and she 170 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: doesn't like I don't know, because we know her as 171 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: such a strong individual who is not shaken, like she 172 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: knows who she knows, and she has lived through what 173 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: she has known, and I think she's worked out so 174 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: much of the questions from again her teaching and being 175 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: in school and learning and just delving into it at 176 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: a young age, that she come to a point that 177 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: she really has a great foundation of what feminism should 178 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: be and why it's important, and she does a great 179 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: way of explaining it. Like but then also for those 180 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: of us who have been in this work thinking that 181 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: we're feminists still like revamping and opening our eyes to 182 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: a new perspective of it, she it's both of those things. Yeah, yeah, 183 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: And she's she's great at laying out the foundation because 184 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: just like us, she starts with some basics, including her 185 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: favorite definition of feminism quote, feminism is a movement to 186 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: end sexism, sexist exportation, and oppression. This is her definition 187 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: that she first used in the book Feminist Theory from 188 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: Margin to Center, and she favors it because it is clear, 189 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: it is concise. Um, it makes it clear that feminism 190 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: isn't about being anti male, which is yes, one of 191 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: the biggest misconceptions and perhaps lies about feminism, but instead 192 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: that it's about sexism. Hooks is adamant that education and 193 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: access to feminist materials. It's a huge part of the 194 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: issue here too, that it's not that everyone is rejecting 195 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: the feminist message, but they just don't know what the messages. 196 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: As she points out, a feminist isn't born, they are made. 197 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: You know. It kind of reminds me again what you know. 198 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: I had relayed about how I had let my parents 199 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: know that I was on a feminist podcast, and my 200 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: dad's reaction was literally, so you want equal rights as men, right, 201 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: And he was like yeah, he goes, so like getting 202 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: paid same for the same job. I was like yeah, 203 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: he goes, yeah, I'm good with that, Like he got 204 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: that understanding, was like, this is not about and where 205 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: you know, my mother was all off, like you're becoming 206 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: a liberal, and that means, and we're gonna talk about this, 207 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: that makes your abortion, you're going to have ten abortions 208 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: and living sin, which is what kind of translated to 209 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: my mom said. And an abortion in a preproductive right 210 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: is absolutely a part of it, but that's not the 211 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: end all of it, as she talks about often, and 212 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,719 Speaker 1: I think that's important. But the actual fact is, if 213 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: one group of people are being held to this lower 214 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: quality of life early they're not afforded the same quality 215 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: is going to affect so many others. And this is 216 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: for the all. The equality is for all that. It 217 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: is not about us stealing anything. It's about us all 218 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: having room to have the same opportunities, which I think 219 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: she does a great job in talking. Oh yeah, she's 220 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 1: really good at that. Here's another quote. And that clarity 221 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: helps us remember that all of us, female and male, 222 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: have been socialized from birth on to accept sexist thought 223 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 1: and action. As a consequence, females can be just as 224 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: sexist as men, and while that does not excuse or 225 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: justify male domination, it does mean that it would be 226 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 1: naive and wrong minded for feminist thinkers to see the 227 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: movement as simplistically being for women against men to end 228 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: a patriarchy another way of naming the institutionalized sexism. We 229 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: need to be clear that we are all participants in 230 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: perpetuating sexism until we change our minds and arts, until 231 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: we let go of sexist thought and action and replace 232 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: it with feminist thought and action. M yeah, m hm. 233 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: And here's another quote. Most men are disturbed by hatred 234 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: and fear of women, by male violence against women, even 235 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: the men who perpetuate this violence. But they fear letting 236 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: go of the benefits. They are not certain what will 237 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: happen to the world they know most intimately if patriarchy changes, 238 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: so they find it easier to passively support male domination, 239 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: even when they know in their minds and hearts that 240 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: it is wrong. Again and again, men will tell me 241 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: they have it, no idea what it is feminist want. 242 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: I believe them. I believe in their capacity to change 243 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 1: and grow, and I believe that if they knew more 244 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: about feminism, they would no longer fear it, for they 245 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: would find in the feminist movement the hope of their 246 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: own release from the bondage of patriarchy. Right. Oh yeah, 247 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: there's so much to they said about that um and 248 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: she continues on saying their misunderstanding of feminist politics reflect 249 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: the reality that most folks learn about feminism from patriarchal 250 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: mass media. The feminism they hear about the most is 251 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: portrayed by women who are primarily committed to gender equality, 252 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: equal pay for equal work, and sometimes women and men 253 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 1: sharing household chores and parenting. I like the sometimes they 254 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: say that these women are usually white and materially privileged. 255 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: They know from mass media that women's liberation focuses on 256 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: the freedom to have abortions, to be lesbians, to challenge 257 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: rape and domestic violence, um, And among these issues, masses 258 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: of people agree with the idea of gender equity in 259 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: the workplace, equal pay for equal work. Since our society 260 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: continues to be primarily a Christian culture, masses of people 261 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: continue to believe that God has ordained that women be 262 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: subordinate to men in the domestic household. And I found 263 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: that really interesting. She's talking about Christianity, man, that was 264 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: a whole different conversation In my head. I was like, yeah, 265 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: I wanted to include that because that we have had 266 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: conversations about that and how that specifically UM interpretations of 267 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: religion specifically impacted us as girls and women and how 268 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: we might have how we internalized that. And I think 269 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: that's very, very true. And I've heard that argument a lot. 270 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: There's one person in particular I'm thinking of who almost 271 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: gets angry that feminism or anything that's about like equality 272 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: with women, achieving equality for women. She almost sees it 273 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: as like a slight on God, like anti religious. She 274 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: gets really angry. She recently I ran in turn. She 275 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: was complaining to me about how somebody had a sticker 276 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: on the back of their truck that said this business 277 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: is owned by women or something, and she was like, 278 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: whys that met? Like that's not good? Why is she 279 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: putting that out like it's a good thing. I was like, 280 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: oh yeah, I mean there's that conversation again, the same thing. 281 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: Uh in that like it goes deeper like black women, 282 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: Oh my god, why do you have to advertise that 283 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: I don't not like? Is just labeling that they don't like, 284 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: even though this is the labeling is what it's taking 285 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: to recognize that there's something wrong and corrupting the system. 286 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, again, and we're gonna talk about it more. 287 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: But she's the one that's really had me thinking about 288 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: colonization and Christianity and how they go hand in hand, 289 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: and that the reason why this is so detrimental to 290 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: a culture who have been colonized in the name of God. 291 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: And we don't think about I don't. I have never 292 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: really thought about it. I've always thought of colonization as 293 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: a political aspect. But looking and of course we can 294 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: go into the deeper theory that religion is political to 295 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: a certain extent and has been used as an excuse 296 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: the name of God has been used as a political exercise. Uh, 297 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: going down a rabbit hole. I'm gonna stop. But but 298 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: like she really is talking about that, and Christianity in 299 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: itself is a way of colonizing in that level. And 300 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: if we look at the deeper parts of the patriarchal 301 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: system that is beyond that. And of course this also 302 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: goes into the whole narrative of feminist patriarch misogyny. Those 303 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: are your word heateronormally, you know, are very feminist words, 304 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: and they are, but they're important into what it means. 305 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: Maybe it's too clinical and we shouldn't say it like that. 306 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: To bring it down a little bit and to layman's terms, 307 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: I guess in the if you're not in the feminist world. 308 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: But if I find that interesting that there is such 309 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: a correlation, that said, this decorrelation that all ties together, 310 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: and how harmful it is. But we've been taught that 311 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: that's the only way society can work for us to 312 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: function as moral citizens. Anyway, Yes, she's got me thinking, y'all, 313 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: she's got me thinking more. The book opens with some 314 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: history of modern American feminism to uh as she she 315 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: writes early on, most feminist activists, a majority of whom 316 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: are white or we're white, had their consciousness raised about 317 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: the nature of male domination when they were working in 318 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: anti classist and anti racist settings with men who are 319 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: telling the world about the importance of freedom while subordinating 320 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,360 Speaker 1: the women in their ranks. Yes, whether it as white 321 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: women working on behalf of socialism, black women working on 322 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: behalf of civil rights and black liberation, or Native American 323 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 1: women working for indigenous rights, it was clear that men 324 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 1: wanted to lead and they wanted women to follow. Participating 325 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: in these radical freedom struggles awakened the spirit of rebellion 326 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: and resistance and progressive females and lead them towards contemporary 327 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: women's liberation and I'm not gonna lie. This had to 328 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: be thinking about Deb Holland, Representative Deb Holland, who is 329 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: our first Native American Indigenous woman to be a Secretary 330 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,479 Speaker 1: of Interior, secretary of anything essentially in the office, one 331 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: of the first women Native American women to be in office. 332 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: Such important thing that she just did recently, And how 333 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: that we talked about her in our Women around the 334 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: world and how they were all these little Native American 335 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: Indigenous committees that were ran by white men, Like, wait, 336 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: what is happening? No one sees how this this is 337 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: really problematic. Yeah, yeah, and this is I'm so glad 338 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: that Hooks touched on this because it is such an 339 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: important conversation. We've seen its hime and time again of 340 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: these like exclusionary movements and why that's hindering everybody, that's 341 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: holding everybody back. But uh, in this way, while early 342 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: feminists may have been anti male, uh, they progressed realizing 343 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,239 Speaker 1: that women could be sexist too, and that systems like 344 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 1: class and race were also huge. In this conversation, Hooks 345 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: details how even from the start, the movement was polarized 346 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Um. Quote, even though individual 347 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: black women were active in contemporary feminist movement from its inception. 348 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: They were not the individuals who became the stars of 349 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: the movement who attracted the attention of mass media. Often 350 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: individual black women active and feminist movement were revolutionary feminist. 351 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: Like many white lesbians, they were already at odds with 352 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: reformist feminists, who resolutely wanted to project a vision of 353 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: the movement as being solely about women gaining equality with 354 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: men in the existing system. Even before race became talked 355 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: about issue in feminist circles, it was clear to black 356 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 1: women and to the revolutionary allies and struggle that they 357 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: were never going to have equality within the existing white 358 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: supremacist capitalist patriarchy. Here's another quote. We can never forget 359 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: that white women began to assert their need for freedom 360 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: after Civil rights, just at the point when racial discrimination 361 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: was ending in black people, especially black males, might have 362 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: attained equality in the workforce with white men. Reformist feminist 363 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: thinking focused primarily on equality with men in the workforce 364 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: overshadowed the original radical foundations of contemporary feminism, which called 365 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: for reform as well as overall restructuring of society so 366 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: that our nation would be fundamentally anti sexist, right. I 367 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 1: love that she's just calling out the fact that it's 368 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: an intersectional thing and it should have been since the 369 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: beginning of voting rights, which we talked about before, but 370 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: the Suffragette movement which happened after the voting watch were 371 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: given to black men. To be fair, not really, but 372 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: kind of on itself, but it took that moment to 373 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: for white women be like wait what and then they're like, 374 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: but that not anybody else, just white women. White women 375 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: should have had these rights to begin with. Yeah. Sorry, 376 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to mock white women in the Suffragette movement, 377 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: but you know, this is how it goes in my head. 378 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: But I found that interesting that she was like she was. 379 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: I mean again, Bell Hookson is known has been talking 380 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: about it has been part of this to talk about 381 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: being a black woman in that book and what she 382 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: was doing with it and why it was important to 383 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: her to have this book. But the fact that it 384 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: goes the anti sexist and anti racist movement has to 385 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: be hand in hand. But the only people who have 386 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: been fighting it since that point in time have been 387 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: black women. Point like, yes, yes, And I really really 388 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: appreciated how she laid out the history because it can 389 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: get as she said, like the academic level can be 390 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: really intimidating and confusing, and there is a lot like, 391 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, area is a lot. But I 392 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: like how she just kind of laid it out and 393 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: was like, we can't ignore this, like we can't ignore 394 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,239 Speaker 1: or this happened because of this, and a lot of it, 395 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: like the suffragette movement, and then this after the Civil 396 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: rights was like white women being oh, wait, this is 397 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: not right, and then excluding people who have been doing 398 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: the work all along, and very much focusing on the 399 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: workplace aspects, which is a key. So Hooks touches on 400 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: something called lifestyle feminism and which well off, typically white feminists, 401 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: we're able to achieve workplace equality with men while depending 402 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: on the work of lower paid, marginalized folks, often women. 403 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: And in this way you could almost live a double life. Um, 404 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: here's one example of lifestyle feminism. Are essentially choosing when 405 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: and where you want to be a feminist. Quote. If 406 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: feminism is a movement to end sexy suppression, and depriving 407 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: females of reprotective rights is a form of sexy suppression, 408 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: then one cannot be anti choice and be feminist. A 409 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: woman can insist she would never choose to have an abortion, 410 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: affirming her support of the right of women to choose, 411 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,959 Speaker 1: and still be an advocate of feminist policies. She cannot 412 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: be anti abortion and an advocate of feminism. Yeah. At 413 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: that point when she was saying that, I was like, oh, yes, absolutely, 414 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: Like when she was talking about being you can say 415 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: you would not have an abortion yourself, that's fine, Like, 416 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: if you chose not to have an abortion, that's on you. 417 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: But that right to have that choice is the conversation 418 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: and saying that you are anti choice because you are 419 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: quote unquote pro life slash pro birth, that means you're 420 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: not a feminist. You can't do this. And I thought 421 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 1: the same thing about like excluding trans women and so 422 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: many of the turfs who are like I'm feminist. No 423 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: you're not. No, you're not. No, you're not. No, you're 424 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: not And I'm going to say that outright. I don't care. 425 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: I don't care. You'll can argue with me all day. 426 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: If you're a turf, if you're against trans women, you 427 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: are not a feminist. Like when it comes down to it, 428 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: and if if we're laying it out as Bell hook says, 429 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: and it's absolutely true if you truly want to be 430 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 1: a feminist where we have equitable rights for all women, 431 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: all women of color, all of that, any woman in general, 432 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: and trans women are women. That's how we're leaving of that. 433 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: Then you cannot be against something that would be for 434 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: the equity of a woman and say you're a feminist, 435 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: like that's just it cannot be. And and her point 436 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: in that was so driven home to me, and that 437 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: in that moment of like, yes, and we've talked about 438 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: it so much, but she put it in such a 439 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: plain way and something that it is very, very controversial 440 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: within women, and that's I think this is one of 441 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: the biggest dividers now to trans women. And abortion are 442 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: two of the biggest dividers when it comes to within 443 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 1: the feminist circle as well. And that might be why 444 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: they don't want to call them filis, you know, like 445 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 1: all of these things, it's like you have to have 446 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: this conversation. And also we don't talk about enough about 447 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: being sterilized against their will and the fact that that 448 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 1: is also part of the pro choice movement, that we 449 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: can have that right to have children, you do not 450 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: have that right to take away from me stop it. Yes, 451 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: and Hooks touch touches on that. I think we have 452 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 1: a quote from an Abil later on, and i' I 453 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: love that point that reproductive rights is not just abortion, 454 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: it's all of these other things. Yes, And I also 455 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: really love this point if I think we could expand 456 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: on this ad nauseum. But of like these well off 457 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: white women typically being a feminist when it's easy to 458 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: be a feminist, but they're being supported by marginalized workers 459 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: who are probably women of color. But then when it 460 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 1: like push comes to shove, they're not helping all women. Yeah. Again, 461 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: and it's it's easy to be a feminist when your 462 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: movement and what you want specifically to define the movement 463 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: is at the highlight of it all like it it 464 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: defines it for everything else and ignores everything else underneath it. Yes, yeah, 465 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: so that I love that she made that point. Another 466 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 1: growing pain Hooks discusses is the fact that in the 467 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: seventies and eighties, many women didn't stop to examine their 468 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: own internalized sexism, but instead believed that fighting against male 469 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: domination was enough, that because they were women, that was enough, 470 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: without instead doing the consciousness raising that she talks about, 471 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,719 Speaker 1: which is huge. I think that's so important. We just 472 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: you know, as she said, we were raising this system. 473 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: We have so many internalized sex I mean, you and 474 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: I have talked about when people come onto our show 475 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: and we give them a heads up, Hey, we are 476 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: a feminist show, so we need you to relay how 477 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: your show or what your conversation topic is about feminism. 478 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: We need we need to get into that. And we've 479 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: had the answer one more than once. What were women? 480 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: And that's the end of it. And we sit there like, sure, 481 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: your women creating content that doesn't make it feminist. Like 482 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: we really have to sit there and stay there, not 483 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 1: be trying not to be impolite in that. Yo, that's 484 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: that's not what feminism mean. Being a woman does not 485 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,719 Speaker 1: automatically just because it's created by a woman. We know 486 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: we've seen toxic, toxic masculinity, toxic patriarchal misogyny from women's 487 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:05,239 Speaker 1: so absolutely, yeah, like we're happy to support women who 488 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: are making content that we think is not harmful content always, 489 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: but it doesn't necessarily mean feminism automatically. Yeah, that doesn't 490 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: automatically like quote it, But I really I thought that 491 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: was interesting, was like just being a woman is enough. No, 492 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: just being someone who supports it is enough. No, Like 493 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: do we want to run ourselves into the ground. No. 494 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: But just because you don't do something or you are 495 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 1: passively doing something does not necessarily give you that title either. 496 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, and Hooks detailed how powerful it was being 497 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: at Stanford during the beginnings of our modern feminist movement, 498 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: and this was the university that she was encouraged to 499 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: attend by a female teacher um and how she took 500 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: her first women's saities courses there and how that really 501 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: did impact her. But also yes, just encountering all of 502 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: those like sexism and racism and kind of being like wait, yeah, 503 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: And then I love this phrase when she talked about 504 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: the power of sisterhood and how that sentiment was so 505 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: strong and the whole the enemy within, internalized sexism, the 506 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 1: enemy within. And I thought that was such a great point, 507 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: because yeah, she talked about how excited she was, and 508 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: I kind of think about the Women's March. I wasn't 509 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:30,919 Speaker 1: a part of it, I had to work, but I 510 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: remember watching it and really feeling like, maybe there's hope 511 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: in the world. And then we find out that later 512 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: on that the women who were in charge of it 513 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: weren't really listening to other women, and we needed to 514 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: talk about that again, which is very familiar to the 515 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: seventies staighties movements as well, where we needed to have 516 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: a breakdown of what was happening. But yeah, the power 517 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: of sisterhood when we talk about sisterhood, because like I 518 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: will say, of above anything else, I always considered myself 519 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: a feminist, even though I have a lot of internalized misogyny, 520 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,959 Speaker 1: and I definitely had a lot of racist even to myself. 521 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: I was racist against myself as an Asian person because 522 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: I was desperately wanted to be white because I thought 523 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: that was the only way to be, That's the best 524 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: way to be, which is the white supremast narrative that's 525 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: been fed into us for so long. But the one 526 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: thing I knew and the one thing I trusted, like 527 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: through years of being abused, through use of going through trauma, 528 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: is that I could trust my girls. Like whether so, 529 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: I always had one or two beyond my family, beyond 530 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: my parents, beyond anything else, beyond relationships like romantic relationships 531 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: with men. My my friends, my friends were my core, 532 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: and that made me always think I would always trust 533 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: women more even when we had you know, the drama 534 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: that you had growing up where someone might cheat on 535 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: someone who did you and I would always get so 536 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: angry when the girls would get mad at each other 537 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: if it was a cheating dude. I'm like, why are 538 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: you mad at each other? This is fault. Think it's 539 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: the main cold right here. I'm confused. And that's how 540 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: narrative knew. That made me feel like, oh, I would 541 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,719 Speaker 1: definitely lean toward being feminist, even though I didn't want 542 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: to be called with femin it's in high school because 543 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: I know, as again were living in a white, very 544 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: like white supremacist, male dominated Christian Southern Baptist world that 545 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: was a bad thing. Um, I still knew a lean 546 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: towards that because those are the people that I trusted 547 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: and even to this day, my closest relationships are my girls, 548 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: are my friends in this world, You and Caroline and Dominique, 549 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: Like I was just naming all friends, Courtney, all of them. 550 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,959 Speaker 1: Those that is my core of people that I trust 551 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: and I will always trust outside of anything else like that. 552 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: To me, that sentiment means so much to come together 553 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: and to be together as one, but also calling each 554 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: other out because like learning from you and Caroline and 555 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: from all this, like having people call each other's out 556 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: for our internalized racism, internalized misogynies is necessary, but it 557 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: is it's a huge enemy that you have to unpackag 558 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: that is that demon that you don't want to face 559 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: as a feminist. Yeah, absolutely, And it's something that unless 560 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: you do or have access to unfortunately hard acts as 561 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: often feminist materials are a good friend that will call 562 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: you out. You might not know you've got this demon 563 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: inside of you until someone is like, hy, no, that's 564 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: not right. Maybe you want to rethink this. Um. Going 565 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: back to rethinking this, Hooks goes on to right. As 566 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: long as women are using class or race power to 567 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: dominate other women, feminist sisterhood cannot be fully realized. Uh, 568 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: huge point cannot be fully realized as more women begin 569 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: to opportunistically lay claim to feminism in the eighties without 570 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: undergoing the feminist consciousness raising good term that would have 571 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: enabled them to divest up their sexism. The patriarchal assumption 572 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: that the powerful should rule over the week informed their 573 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: relations to other women. Y'all. That was a long sentence 574 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: for me, And it's such a deep sentence. She goes 575 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: on to say, as women, particularly previously disenfrantised privileged white women, 576 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: began to acquire class power without divesting of their internalized sexism. 577 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: Divisions between women intensified. When women of color critiqued the 578 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: racism within the society as a whole and called attention 579 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: to the ways that racism has shaped and informed feminist 580 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: theory and practice, many white women simply turned their backs 581 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: on the vision of sisterhood, closing their mind and their hearts. 582 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: And that was equally true when it came to the 583 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: classism among women. And yeah, I think that was a 584 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: narrative that we still obviously this was when she wrote this, 585 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: but that was a narrative we had to talk about 586 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: last year in as we were talking about this is 587 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: white feminism and this is white white feminism is dangerous. 588 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: And of course she was much nicer than we are 589 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: when it comes to calling ourselves out, because I said 590 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: the same thing when it comes to race, and when 591 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: we talk about Asian people versus Black people, not verses, 592 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: but in in the comparison and conversation of like, who 593 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: is truly being disenfranchised here? And then how are we 594 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: a petted against each other and the anti life movement 595 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: that has happened within Asian culture as well, and we 596 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: need to face that that there is that level. But 597 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: this conversation about white feminists, it could be safe for 598 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: Asian feminists, you know, when it comes to what we're 599 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: looking at and who is truly the one that has 600 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: been stripped of any power and of any voice and 601 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: man like she talks again, she's nicer than me. I 602 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: think in the way she frames it. It's so truthful though, 603 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: that the idea that they got what they wanted. Let 604 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: us go into the workplace if we want to, forgetting 605 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: that there are other women who have been forced into 606 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: the workplace without getting any pay or any like real 607 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: kind of justice or any kind of equality in in 608 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: the working field that already having to be a part 609 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: of and they're being pushed into. Why are we talking 610 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,959 Speaker 1: about that doesn't affect the privileged, the pretty the pretty 611 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: face of feminism, right, And it's very like, yeah, I 612 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: like how she uses the line like in their hearts, 613 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,720 Speaker 1: like closing their minds and their hearts, because it's very Oh, 614 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: this wasn't impacting me before, but now I was impacting me. 615 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: So I'm going to get involved and then kind of 616 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: take the credit and then you get what you want, 617 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: even though what you want is still very much like 618 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: a man's world. Alright, I'll that you have that, sweetheart, 619 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: and then like, okay, I'm good and forgetting like all 620 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: the people who have been working on it, all of 621 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: the women of color, and especially black women who have 622 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: been working on it is still don't have their rights 623 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: that you do. Right it is, And she continues to write, 624 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: Since masses of young females know little about feminism, and 625 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: many falsely assume that sexism is no longer the problem, 626 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 1: feminist education for critical consciousness must be continuous. Older feminist 627 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: thinkers cannot assume that young females will just acquire knowledge 628 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: of feminis is m along the way to adulthood. They 629 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: require guidance. Overall women in our society are forgetting the 630 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: value and power of sisterhood. Renewed feminist movement must once 631 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: again raise the banner high to proclaim a new sisterhood 632 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: is powerful. Um, I'm not gonna lie. This made me 633 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: think about my niece. Oh I love very dearly. If 634 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: you're listening to this, I love you, Gracie. I remember, 635 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,479 Speaker 1: as she was graduating high school. She was talking about 636 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: all of these things, and she had very similar statements 637 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: like I did in a different manner about feminism, and 638 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: she definitely was like, I would never call myself a 639 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: feminist all of these things because this young group of 640 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: kids have become so jaded by what they think is feminism. 641 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,800 Speaker 1: Once again, as well as just you know, I'm assuming 642 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: that she knows. Because she were the things that she 643 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: wants to do. I was like, you can't do that 644 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: without feminism. You couldn't have those without feminism, but surely 645 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 1: you know. And then seeing her like five or six 646 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: years later and seeing where she's come to understanding what 647 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 1: it is and having her consciousness rays as Hooks would say, 648 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: and seeing her come to this point, but it really 649 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: did like, Wow, I assumed you had so much access 650 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,800 Speaker 1: to knowledge that you would know, but when it comes 651 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: to what you learned within your own culture, we have 652 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: and we still have this whole girl versus girl, the 653 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,879 Speaker 1: I'm not like other girl's trope that has gotten so 654 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,879 Speaker 1: heavy and so deep, especially in mainstream movies, all these 655 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: romance things that that really play and perpetuate the stereotype 656 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: forgetting that, yes, sisterhood is powerful. Yeah, and turning women 657 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: against women is not helping women this whole like, oh 658 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: she can't do what I can. I can survive in 659 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: this main world as if it's a competition and it's 660 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: just like but yes, demanding respect for women's academic work, 661 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,280 Speaker 1: importance of this whole, support group, places to talk and education. 662 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: But again the danger of presenting only in an academic 663 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 1: setting like we talked about earlier, and it is this 664 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: is where I have a hard time where my family, 665 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 1: uh that education is ruining society, you know, right, yeah, yeah, 666 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: you go, you go to that college and you come 667 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: back all liberal and that's exactly what they think it. 668 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: But how about you take the other facts that we've 669 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:27,399 Speaker 1: actually started critically thinking beyond just being told what to think, 670 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 1: and now we come to this and realize this doesn't 671 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: make sense, This does not the betterment, and instead they're 672 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 1: just like, that's the education you got, you bought into, 673 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,959 Speaker 1: that you bought into the like, yeah, that's not okay, okay, 674 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 1: But the fact that we do need to put it 675 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,400 Speaker 1: in the language that hooks is low doing it and 676 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 1: and unfortunately making it more palatable, um, which I know 677 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: black women are tired of having to do for so long. Um, 678 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: she still didn't, and she writes, if we do not 679 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: work to create a mass based movement which offers feminist 680 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: education to everyone, females and male, feminist theories and practice 681 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: will always be undermined by the negative information produced in 682 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 1: most Maine media. The citizens of this nation cannot know 683 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: the positive contributions of feminist movements has made to all 684 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: our lives if we do not highlight these gains. I'm 685 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: simply simply put. I mean, come on, that's exactly what 686 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: you were talking about. Um. And then, as we mentioned, 687 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,439 Speaker 1: Hooks talks about the sexual revolution, free love, and reproductive rights, 688 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: and here's a quote I really loved about that. In retrospect, 689 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: it is evident that highlighting abortion rather than reproductive rights 690 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: as a whole, reflected the class biases of the women 691 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: who were at the forefront of the movement. While the 692 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: issue of abortion was and remains revalent to all women, 693 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 1: there were other reproductive issues that were just as vital 694 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 1: which needed attention and might have served to galvanize masses. 695 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: These issues ranged from basic sex education, prenatal care, preventive 696 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: healthcare that would help females understand how their bodies worked, 697 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: to force, sterilization, unnecessary ccerians, and to or his diextomies 698 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: and the medical complications they left in their wake. Of 699 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: all these issues, individual white women with class privilege identified 700 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: most intimately with the pain of unwanted pregnancy, and they 701 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: highlighted the abortion issue. They were not, by any means 702 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 1: the only group in need of access to safe legal abortions. 703 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: Has already stated, they were far more likely to have 704 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: the means to acquire an abortion than poor and working 705 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: class women. In those days, poor women, black women included, 706 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: often sought illegal abortions. The right to have an abortion 707 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: was not a white women only issue. It was simply 708 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 1: not the only or even the most important reproductive concern 709 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: for masses of American women. And again, I thought that 710 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 1: was such a that's such a good point, and it's 711 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 1: so important to remember. I mean, and we're not even 712 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: mentioning about the deaths of many of the black women 713 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 1: uh during pregnancy, during giving birth, and how that is 714 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: so impacted. If we are not given correct reproductive care, 715 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,879 Speaker 1: then we are not able to save this. Women were 716 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 1: literally killing women who are trying to have children. You know, 717 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 1: all of these or those who we have talked about 718 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: and we have seen where medically induced abortions, late term abortions, 719 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,760 Speaker 1: as people really wanted emphasize, which oftentimes are done because 720 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: of medical necessity, not because of want. That many of 721 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: these women are desperately to have children, but can't give 722 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 1: birth to a child because of whatever health issue, and 723 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: so therefore have to have an abortion to keep themselves 724 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: safe as well as maybe sometimes the fetus, and oftentimes 725 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: they have to do an abortion, but having to get 726 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,279 Speaker 1: having a late term abortion to save their lives. But 727 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: it costs thousands of dollars and it is not covered 728 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 1: and is considered abortion, which we know under federal governments 729 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 1: do not always provide access or instant covered under insurance 730 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: and can be denied by a private insurance. Thank you 731 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: federal government. And can you imagine if you're one of 732 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,760 Speaker 1: these people who can't afford that, and so you're forced 733 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: to give birth, and therefore it kills you because you 734 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: cannot afford that abortion, medically induced abortion, and then we'll 735 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,320 Speaker 1: have to go into thousands of dollars of debt. Yeah 736 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: for tragedy, something that was traumatic. Yeah. Yeah, there's there's 737 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:12,759 Speaker 1: so much to impact there. I feel like every quote 738 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: word we're reading it's like, oh, we could talk all 739 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,880 Speaker 1: about this. Here's another quote. Looking back, after years of 740 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: feeling comfortable choosing whether or not to wear BRA, I 741 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 1: can remember what a momentous decision this was thirty years ago. 742 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: Women stripping their bodies and unhealthy and uncomfortable restrictive clothing. 743 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: BRA's girdles course at Scarter Belts, et cetera was a ritualistic, 744 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 1: radical reclaiming of the health and glory of the female body. 745 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: Females today who have never known such restrictions can only 746 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: trust us when we say this reclaiming was momentous. I 747 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,279 Speaker 1: want to put that in there because I've seen a 748 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,400 Speaker 1: lot of definitely about the death of Lebra, and I 749 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 1: know we've talked a lot about how for you, and 750 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 1: I like, I remember once I tried to leave the 751 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: house but in high school without a brown and my 752 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 1: parents were like no, no, And I was like what why, 753 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: And they didn't really want to talk to me about it, 754 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: but they refused to believe. I find that so funny 755 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:04,919 Speaker 1: because I'm the same way. I still have this shame factor, 756 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 1: so I'll still wear BRA. As I'm getting older, they're 757 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: starting to be a lot more dangly uh, and not 758 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: in a good way. So like I get like wanting 759 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: to how to put myself together in a little bit, 760 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,239 Speaker 1: I'm by the way, I'm actually doing this on on 761 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 1: the sky called Annie, but like, yeah, well, like people 762 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,400 Speaker 1: know breasts exist. I don't understand why we are so 763 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: like there's so many things to this point that I'm like, 764 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 1: and if we're not showing them off naked, I mean 765 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: that's a whole different conversation. If I'm gonna not going shirtless, 766 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,240 Speaker 1: it's still covered just because it is in a different 767 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,800 Speaker 1: shape than you are comfortable with. That again holds to 768 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 1: a standard of like this is beauty to you. And 769 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: so if I make you uncomfortable because I've existed, I 770 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 1: have nipples, I guess I don't know why does this 771 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,759 Speaker 1: right to the point, I'm like, there should be more 772 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 1: of a shame for me if I'm trying to look 773 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,399 Speaker 1: put together, then for you. So I don't get it. 774 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: If I'm not, then why are you don't be getting wrong? 775 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 1: I did have a moment of like, I still if 776 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,440 Speaker 1: I can go without a bra, I absolutely will, just 777 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: because it's itchy and I'm tired and I just want 778 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,359 Speaker 1: everything to hang out. But every now I'm a good 779 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: because the way my boob folds and it gets yucky 780 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 1: and sweaty, and like maybe I need some piece of 781 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:24,320 Speaker 1: color underneath that. That's a whole different conversation, the whole different. 782 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: But I didn't. I didn't think about that whole like 783 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: how uncomfortable clothing were, and we were We've talked about 784 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 1: the ridiculousness of clothes and sometimes how it was dangerous, man, 785 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: how liberating that was for that movement, the whole different conversation. 786 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: And then Hooks goes on to right the clothing and 787 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 1: body revelations created by feminist interventions. Let females know that 788 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 1: our flesh was worthy of love and adoration in its 789 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 1: natural state. Yes, nothing had to be added unless a 790 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,840 Speaker 1: woman chose further adornment. Again, we've talked about this before. Initially, 791 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,240 Speaker 1: she writes, capitalist investors in the cosmetic and fashion industry 792 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,399 Speaker 1: feared that feminism would destroy their business. They put their 793 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,919 Speaker 1: money behind mass media campaigns which trivialized women's liberation about 794 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,839 Speaker 1: portraying images which suggested women were big, hyper masculine, and 795 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: just plain old ugly. In reality, women involved in feminist 796 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,360 Speaker 1: movements came in all shapes and sizes, we were utterly diverse, 797 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 1: and how thrilling it is to be free to appreciate 798 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: our differences without judgment or competition. And I also thought 799 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,919 Speaker 1: about that too, because for some, feminism is to where 800 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 1: something as sexy as they want and not to be 801 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 1: judged by it. But yet we're still judged by it. Yes, 802 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 1: and there's a quote about this. Girls today are often 803 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 1: just as self hating when it comes to their bodies 804 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,440 Speaker 1: as their pre feminist count our parts were. While feminist 805 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,640 Speaker 1: movement produced many types of pro female magazines, no feminist 806 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: oriented fashion magazine appeared to offer all females alternative visions 807 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 1: of beauty to critique sexist images without offering alternatives as 808 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,560 Speaker 1: an incomplete intervention, critique in and of itself does not 809 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,080 Speaker 1: lead to change. Indeed, much feminist critique of beauty has 810 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 1: merely left females confused about what a healthy choice is. 811 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:24,839 Speaker 1: As a middle aged woman gaining more weight than ever 812 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,720 Speaker 1: before in my life, I want to work at shedding 813 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,920 Speaker 1: pounds without deploying sexist body self hatred to do so 814 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,919 Speaker 1: I can relate it so hard to all of them, Yes, yep, 815 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 1: and we've talked about that a lot. Yeah, And then 816 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,320 Speaker 1: also the issues of class um and this whole idea 817 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 1: of the issues of privileged women getting more attention. That's 818 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,799 Speaker 1: something else that Hooks talked about a lot um. Here's 819 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: a quote, privileged class white women swiftly declare their quote 820 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: ownership of the movement, placing working class white women, poor 821 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,240 Speaker 1: white women, and all women of color in the position 822 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,760 Speaker 1: of followers. It did not matter how many working class 823 00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 1: white women are. Individual black women spearheaded the women's movement 824 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: in radical directions. At the end of the day, white 825 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,400 Speaker 1: women with class power declared that they owned the movement, 826 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,560 Speaker 1: that they were the leaders and the rest as merely followers. 827 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:14,240 Speaker 1: Parasitic class relations have overshadowed issues of race, nation, and gender, 828 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,480 Speaker 1: and contemporary neo colonialism and feminism did not remain aloof 829 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:23,240 Speaker 1: from that dynamic. Yeah, and then there's a whole section 830 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,560 Speaker 1: that was really interesting about globalism and American women believing 831 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,279 Speaker 1: that they know better as kind of part of that, 832 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:37,040 Speaker 1: and kind of American largely white feminism being very almost paternalistic. 833 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,800 Speaker 1: It's funny but being like, no, you're not doing it right. Yeah, 834 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,640 Speaker 1: that they had this ownership as well, but it's kind 835 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,000 Speaker 1: of it is it's isn't that the way that we 836 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: have this cyclical thing where they see a movement and 837 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,200 Speaker 1: they take it on, created for their own and say 838 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,359 Speaker 1: this is the only right way. And when things kind 839 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,400 Speaker 1: of fall apart, they get very defensive and have this 840 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,799 Speaker 1: whole conversation Betty Freed, and she brings up her a 841 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:05,640 Speaker 1: feminine mystique and just kind of the point of it 842 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,960 Speaker 1: all it iss she was a feminist icon, but then 843 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,760 Speaker 1: she was also a white feminist and in that conversation 844 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,880 Speaker 1: of like, who is she really perpetuating uh, this movement for? 845 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: And it was very conversate, like she and again Hooks 846 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,040 Speaker 1: is a much nicer about it than I'm being, but 847 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,760 Speaker 1: in that like this is this is how it's going about, 848 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,440 Speaker 1: and who holds the standards and what we see the standards, 849 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,400 Speaker 1: but they are also the ones that help these standards 850 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,400 Speaker 1: and this is what we see as the bad fitness today. 851 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,040 Speaker 1: And people say they don't want to be that feminist. 852 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,759 Speaker 1: So like she does say that both those both things. 853 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,400 Speaker 1: So I thought it was interesting and yeah, and she 854 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,400 Speaker 1: writes on about the workplace, coming from a working class 855 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,600 Speaker 1: African American background where most women I knew were in 856 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,719 Speaker 1: the work force, I was among the harshest critics of 857 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,680 Speaker 1: the vision of feminism put forth by reformist thinkers when 858 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,719 Speaker 1: the movement began, suggested that work would liberate women from 859 00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:01,000 Speaker 1: male domination. More than ten years ago, I wrote in 860 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,920 Speaker 1: Feminist Theory from Margin Dissenter to quote she such from 861 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,719 Speaker 1: that book, the emphasis on work as a key to 862 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,640 Speaker 1: women's liberations lad many white women activists to suggest women 863 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,400 Speaker 1: who work were already liberated. They were, in effects saying 864 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,279 Speaker 1: to the majority of working women, feminist movement is not 865 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,319 Speaker 1: for you. Most importantly, I knew firsthand that working for 866 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,839 Speaker 1: low wages did not liberate poor working class women from 867 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,759 Speaker 1: male domination. And I feel like that is such a 868 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: huge Working for a low wages gives no one freedom 869 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,319 Speaker 1: the we know it perpetuates this whole system of them 870 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,520 Speaker 1: staying in a lower class, not being able to this 871 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:43,239 Speaker 1: whole bootstrapping bullshit. It's not we know this, We've talked 872 00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,759 Speaker 1: about this, our listeners, y'all, y'all already know this. But 873 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,040 Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is it wasn't acknowledged at 874 00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 1: that point in time, and saying well, you go what 875 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:52,759 Speaker 1: you wanted. You can make your own job and make 876 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,239 Speaker 1: your own decisions. This is not making your own decisions. 877 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,160 Speaker 1: This is doing what you have to do to make 878 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:02,759 Speaker 1: ends meet, yeah, to survive. And we have. We've been 879 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,120 Speaker 1: working on a project that we'll talk about eventually where 880 00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:10,040 Speaker 1: we discussed a lot of issues where it's like this 881 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,759 Speaker 1: kind of fight comes up over and over again of 882 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 1: work being the end all be all in a capitalist system, 883 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,920 Speaker 1: and how that's still a problem, Like you can make strides, 884 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,040 Speaker 1: what we still have to keep in mind that system 885 00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,480 Speaker 1: is not really setting us up to succeed, not a 886 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,880 Speaker 1: lot of us anyway. And I did find this interesting. 887 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 1: Hooks touches on the mistake of blaming feminism for forcing 888 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,319 Speaker 1: women to work, which I thought was really interesting because 889 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,960 Speaker 1: I think I've heard that argument as well, of like, well, 890 00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,200 Speaker 1: I just want to stay at Manory Children, and there's 891 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,360 Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that, but I feel like there was 892 00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,239 Speaker 1: this judgment that that people have felt of well, if 893 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:48,920 Speaker 1: I don't have a job, then I guess I'm don't 894 00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:53,080 Speaker 1: watched femininists, which is just another misconception, right. And then 895 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,200 Speaker 1: Hooks also touches a lot on racing gender quote. No 896 00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,120 Speaker 1: intervention changed the face of American feminism more than the 897 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,839 Speaker 1: demand that femini as thinkers acknowledge the reality of race 898 00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,480 Speaker 1: and racism. All white women in this nation know that 899 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,959 Speaker 1: their status is different from that of black women women 900 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,000 Speaker 1: of color. They know this from the time they are 901 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,320 Speaker 1: little kids, watching television and seeing only their images, and 902 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,960 Speaker 1: looking at magazines and seeing only their images. They know 903 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,360 Speaker 1: that the only reason non whites are absent invisible is 904 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,879 Speaker 1: because they're not white. All white women in this nation 905 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,000 Speaker 1: know that whiteness is a privileged category. The fact that 906 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,400 Speaker 1: many white females may choose to repress or deny this 907 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,120 Speaker 1: knowledge does not mean they are ignorant. It means that 908 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:35,200 Speaker 1: they are in denial. And we've been talking about those, 909 00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,759 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to television and who is being 910 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,640 Speaker 1: represented and who isn't. You and I have talked about 911 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,279 Speaker 1: this a lot. I've talked about my own UH conversations 912 00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,360 Speaker 1: and trying to find any person of color a b 913 00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,600 Speaker 1: As being the main character or not being seen as 914 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,400 Speaker 1: a comic relief or the sexy sidekick in itself, and 915 00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:58,279 Speaker 1: me not having any representation until even recently, of any 916 00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,959 Speaker 1: type of real, actual Asian women in white culture. Of course, 917 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:04,839 Speaker 1: if I was in Korea, it would be a whole 918 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,680 Speaker 1: different story. But honestly, the thing I remember, there's very little. 919 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,719 Speaker 1: I remember a lot about Korea. The things that I 920 00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,319 Speaker 1: remember watching TV was a Michael Jackson and Madonna. Those 921 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,080 Speaker 1: were my two. I remember seeing concerts with them and 922 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:19,480 Speaker 1: performing and I wanted to beat them. So even in Korea, 923 00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,279 Speaker 1: I was inundated with white culture, not Michael Jackson's not 924 00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:25,040 Speaker 1: white culture, but you know what I mean, like American 925 00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,480 Speaker 1: culture and being what that was and what was good 926 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,880 Speaker 1: and what wasn't good, and so like that's such a 927 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,960 Speaker 1: huge conversation because that's kind of the conversation that we 928 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,759 Speaker 1: had with people who did represent these marginalized communities. And 929 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,720 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, well, you know, they're not being ignored. 930 00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:42,160 Speaker 1: They asked me to and this is a great role. 931 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,759 Speaker 1: So I took it like it's just it was so 932 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,960 Speaker 1: insulting of being like, just admit it. You admit that 933 00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,000 Speaker 1: you did not think about your privilege and you really 934 00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:52,880 Speaker 1: liked this opportunity and you thought might get you an 935 00:51:52,880 --> 00:52:00,239 Speaker 1: oscar in the story, Yeah you know, Oh gosh, that's 936 00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:04,120 Speaker 1: the whole thing. Um, here's another quote. They being white 937 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,800 Speaker 1: women entered the movement or racing and denying difference and 938 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,080 Speaker 1: not playing race alongside gender, but eliminating race from the 939 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,080 Speaker 1: picture for grounding gender meant that white women could take 940 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,759 Speaker 1: center stage. It could claim the movement as there's even 941 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,440 Speaker 1: as they called on all women to join. The utopian 942 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,480 Speaker 1: vision of sisterhood evoked in a feminist movement that initially 943 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,080 Speaker 1: did not take a racial difference or anti racist struggle 944 00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:27,600 Speaker 1: seriously did not capture the imagination of most black women 945 00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,600 Speaker 1: women of color. And that is throughout our book club, 946 00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:35,240 Speaker 1: we've heard that over and over again. That makes absolute sense. 947 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,160 Speaker 1: And it's been a it's been a problem. It's been 948 00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,120 Speaker 1: a problem, and I'm glad we're discussing it because it 949 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:44,280 Speaker 1: still is a problem. It's kind of that same narrative 950 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:48,400 Speaker 1: of men trying to understand rape victims and sexual assault 951 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:50,800 Speaker 1: victims by saying I have a daughter, I have a wife. 952 00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,320 Speaker 1: But it's the same troube. It's like, you don't consider 953 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,520 Speaker 1: it until it's too it's personal to you. So when 954 00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,600 Speaker 1: it becomes a personal to use when you have a 955 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,920 Speaker 1: black partner or a person of color, which I've heard 956 00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,839 Speaker 1: a lot, which I want to punch somebody if someone 957 00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:09,080 Speaker 1: used me as their token to say I understand because 958 00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,320 Speaker 1: I have I'm dating a person of color. That infuriates me. 959 00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:14,800 Speaker 1: I want you to understand it. I do, and I 960 00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:16,920 Speaker 1: know you have to have a have a starting point, 961 00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,320 Speaker 1: so I get that. But the token ism in that 962 00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,240 Speaker 1: and then it takes you that long to find empathy 963 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:29,719 Speaker 1: MHM is really exhausting and heartbreaking for me. And I know, 964 00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,080 Speaker 1: good intentions, got it, got it, But this is also 965 00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:37,320 Speaker 1: what we talk about white feminism. Good intentions, but because 966 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,640 Speaker 1: it doesn't affect their narrative their life, they exclude it. 967 00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,319 Speaker 1: And that's problematic, and that this is that conversation too, 968 00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,759 Speaker 1: in that very level, like you can't even you can't 969 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,719 Speaker 1: even include that, you can't even hear that um, Which 970 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:51,799 Speaker 1: is why it's important to have people of color at 971 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:53,600 Speaker 1: the table once again, which, by the way, it's a 972 00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,160 Speaker 1: whole conversation you and I need to have because you 973 00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:56,719 Speaker 1: and I have been going back and forth about how 974 00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,800 Speaker 1: we are struggling with that phrase at the table, and 975 00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,239 Speaker 1: then I just actually recently see the TikTok video what 976 00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,279 Speaker 1: they talk about, but who made that table, and you're like, 977 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:09,160 Speaker 1: oh god, there's a whole other port anyway, But this 978 00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,120 Speaker 1: is that same conversation of that, Like it takes that 979 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,640 Speaker 1: much for people to realize why it's problematic and it 980 00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:20,200 Speaker 1: shouldn't have to be exactly. And then Hook's had a 981 00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:26,399 Speaker 1: really interesting bit on patriarchal violence and like how the patriarchy, Yeah, 982 00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:30,120 Speaker 1: it's like hurting, physically hurting people, but on top of that, 983 00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,200 Speaker 1: talking about women and do committing those violence and they 984 00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,360 Speaker 1: are following the patriarchal violence by being the ones that 985 00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:38,680 Speaker 1: commit the violence. And she talks a lot about child abuse, 986 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:42,759 Speaker 1: and as as a former child abuse investigator, I was like, yo, 987 00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,000 Speaker 1: on point, on point, on point when we were talking 988 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,520 Speaker 1: about why does it come through and then also how 989 00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,120 Speaker 1: it is perpetuated by the matriarch. Even though it's a 990 00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,680 Speaker 1: matriarch who was head of the family, they are still 991 00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:59,120 Speaker 1: perpetuating patriarchal violence misogynistic ideals into their children because that's 992 00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:02,320 Speaker 1: what they know, and thenternalized misogyny they have. It was 993 00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,959 Speaker 1: a whole breakdown, It was it was. There was also 994 00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,720 Speaker 1: a breakdown of how kind of the anti feminist movement 995 00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:13,279 Speaker 1: or the propaganda against feminism used a lot of homophobia, 996 00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,719 Speaker 1: the whole idea like all feminists are lesbians and that 997 00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:21,040 Speaker 1: equals bad. I guess it's also just incorrect, but in 998 00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:26,480 Speaker 1: that kind of context. Sure, I've always loved women. I 999 00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,080 Speaker 1: don't know young about So what way are we talking here? 1000 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,080 Speaker 1: And she talks about feminist masculinity, which she writes, as 1001 00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,719 Speaker 1: often the case in revolutionary movements for social justice, we 1002 00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,080 Speaker 1: are better at naming the problem than we are envisioning 1003 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:45,480 Speaker 1: the solution. We do know that patriarchal masculinity encourages men 1004 00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:49,600 Speaker 1: to be pathological and narcissistic, infantile, and psychologically dependent on 1005 00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:53,919 Speaker 1: the privileges, however relative that they receive simply from being 1006 00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:57,520 Speaker 1: born male. Many men feel that their lives are being 1007 00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:01,160 Speaker 1: threatened if these privileges are taken away, as they have structures, 1008 00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:06,000 Speaker 1: no meaningful core identity. This is why the men's movement 1009 00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,400 Speaker 1: positively attempted to teach men how to reconnect with their feelings, 1010 00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,040 Speaker 1: to reclaim the lost boy within and nurture his soul, 1011 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:17,400 Speaker 1: his spiritual growth. No significant body of feminist literature has 1012 00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:21,399 Speaker 1: appeared that addresses boys, that lets them know they can 1013 00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:26,279 Speaker 1: construct an identity that is not rooted in sexism. Um, 1014 00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:28,359 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's still the case. I think 1015 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,239 Speaker 1: there might be a book now about the young boys, 1016 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:36,200 Speaker 1: how to raise young boys. Yeah, I've seen a lot 1017 00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,600 Speaker 1: lately of discussion about this. I know Glenn Doyle talked 1018 00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,480 Speaker 1: about it in her book, but I I recently have 1019 00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,200 Speaker 1: seen a lot of like, you should not just be 1020 00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,480 Speaker 1: raising feminist girls, you should be raising like this just 1021 00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,719 Speaker 1: isn't for girls. Um. So I believe you're correct. It's 1022 00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,560 Speaker 1: definitely a hot topic of conversation right now, right um. 1023 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,560 Speaker 1: And it makes sense as we want to break down 1024 00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,600 Speaker 1: like kind of teaching again talking about concern and talking 1025 00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:03,640 Speaker 1: about sexual assault, that we don't need to put all 1026 00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:05,919 Speaker 1: the on us on to women. This should be taught 1027 00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:10,680 Speaker 1: to boys. Abortion is the same, right exactly? Yeah uh. 1028 00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,120 Speaker 1: And then a couple of quotes about sexuality here quote 1029 00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,240 Speaker 1: it evokes fear within me, just to imagine a world 1030 00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,200 Speaker 1: where every time a female is sexual, she risk being impregnated. 1031 00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,680 Speaker 1: To imagine a world where men want sex and women 1032 00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,560 Speaker 1: fear it. In such a world, a desiring woman might 1033 00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:28,360 Speaker 1: find the intersection of her desire and her fear. And 1034 00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,880 Speaker 1: then here's another in the bedroom, many men want a 1035 00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,720 Speaker 1: sexually desiring woman eager to give and share pleasure, but 1036 00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,400 Speaker 1: ultimately they did not surrender the sexist assumption that her 1037 00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,880 Speaker 1: sexual performance i e. Whether or not she wanted to 1038 00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,160 Speaker 1: be sexual should be determined by their desire. While it 1039 00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,920 Speaker 1: was fun to do it with willing, excited, liberated females, 1040 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:46,880 Speaker 1: it was not fun when those females declared that they 1041 00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,320 Speaker 1: wanted a space not to be sexual. Often, when that happened, 1042 00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,600 Speaker 1: heterosexual men made it clear that they would need to 1043 00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:55,880 Speaker 1: look elsewhere for sexual release, an action which reinforced the 1044 00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:59,800 Speaker 1: reality of continued allegiance to a sexist paradigm of ownership 1045 00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:02,720 Speaker 1: and all female body as well as they're holding to 1046 00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:07,920 Speaker 1: the notion that any female body would suffice. Yeah, and 1047 00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,160 Speaker 1: we kind of talked about this with the Asexual book, 1048 00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:15,000 Speaker 1: and I'm glad we did. But she yeah, she m yeah, yeah, 1049 00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,720 Speaker 1: having the like agency and its face to be sexual 1050 00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:20,840 Speaker 1: and not be sexual, that it be about the women, 1051 00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,640 Speaker 1: the woman's body, and not just the man's pleasure. Yeah. Um, 1052 00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,880 Speaker 1: here's another quote. What knowing powerful, caring lesbians taught me 1053 00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:29,880 Speaker 1: as a girl, a lesson that has continued is that 1054 00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:31,920 Speaker 1: women do not need to depend on men for our 1055 00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,800 Speaker 1: well being and our happiness, not even our sexual bliss. 1056 00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:37,680 Speaker 1: This knowledge opened up a world of possibility for women. 1057 00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,760 Speaker 1: It offered choice and options. We will never know how 1058 00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,400 Speaker 1: many millions of women staying relationships with dominating sex as 1059 00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:45,840 Speaker 1: males simply because they cannot imagine a life where they 1060 00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,800 Speaker 1: can be happy without men, whether they are satisfied sexually 1061 00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,600 Speaker 1: and emotionally with the men in their life or not. 1062 00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,920 Speaker 1: If any female feels she needs anything beyond herself to 1063 00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,000 Speaker 1: legitimate and validate her existence, she is already giving away 1064 00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,280 Speaker 1: her power to be self defining her agency well as 1065 00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:02,520 Speaker 1: being women inspired me from childhood on to claim the 1066 00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:06,360 Speaker 1: space of my own self definition. And we've talked that 1067 00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:11,600 Speaker 1: even in our sex in the city. Don't you don't 1068 00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,600 Speaker 1: need that? Like you if you want it, great, but 1069 00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:18,040 Speaker 1: you just just yeah, just let it be. Why can't 1070 00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:21,680 Speaker 1: it just be? And she continues writing Romantic love as 1071 00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:25,280 Speaker 1: most people understand it in a patriarchal culture makes one unaware, 1072 00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:29,400 Speaker 1: renders one powerless and out of control. Feminist thinkers called 1073 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,760 Speaker 1: attention to the way this notion of love served the 1074 00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,720 Speaker 1: interests of patriarchal men and women. It supported the notion 1075 00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,240 Speaker 1: that one could do anything in the name of love, 1076 00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,320 Speaker 1: beat people, restrict their movements, even kill them, and call 1077 00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:46,240 Speaker 1: it a crime of passion. Plead, I love her so much, 1078 00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:50,000 Speaker 1: I had to kill her. What love and patriarchal culture 1079 00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:53,480 Speaker 1: was linked to notions of possession, to paradigms of domination 1080 00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,920 Speaker 1: and submission, wherein it was assumed one person would give 1081 00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:01,800 Speaker 1: love and another person receive it. Yeah, that's such a 1082 01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:05,040 Speaker 1: big sentence. That's just a big like, Yeah, it really 1083 01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,760 Speaker 1: is it? Really? This as this ownership again, we've talked 1084 01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:13,520 Speaker 1: about that one being one, being together in one finding 1085 01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:19,400 Speaker 1: the one again as an ownership. Yeah, very possessive that whole, 1086 01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,360 Speaker 1: Like she's mine. If she won't be mine, then she 1087 01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:27,120 Speaker 1: can't kill her. Like. It's another example that patriarchal violence. Femicide, 1088 01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:29,520 Speaker 1: which we haven't talked about much, which we should come 1089 01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:31,280 Speaker 1: back to because we need to revisit. I don't know 1090 01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,120 Speaker 1: it's been talked about before, has grown and gotten worse 1091 01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,280 Speaker 1: in so many of the different countries, including the US 1092 01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,440 Speaker 1: and the allowance of it. But again that's a whole 1093 01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,040 Speaker 1: different conversation. And she does talk about spirituality and Annie, 1094 01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:44,520 Speaker 1: you and I have talked about we're going to do 1095 01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:48,400 Speaker 1: an episode about Christianity and how or just religion in 1096 01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:52,080 Speaker 1: itself and how it affects women and the feminist the 1097 01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,840 Speaker 1: misogynistic systems that weigh on women because of religion just 1098 01:00:55,960 --> 01:01:00,360 Speaker 1: whatever and hooks rights. Early on feminist movement launched a 1099 01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:04,240 Speaker 1: critique of patriarchal religion that has had a profound impact 1100 01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:09,680 Speaker 1: changing the nature of religious worship throughout our nation, exposing 1101 01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:13,080 Speaker 1: the Western metaphysical dualism, the assumption that the world can 1102 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:16,760 Speaker 1: always be understood by binary categories, that there is an 1103 01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:20,160 Speaker 1: inferior and a superior, a good and a bad, was 1104 01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:24,760 Speaker 1: the ideological foundation of all forms of group oppression, sexism, racism, etcetera, 1105 01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,880 Speaker 1: and that such thinking formed the basis of Judeo Christian 1106 01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:34,120 Speaker 1: belief systems. Yeah. She talks here about colonization with religion, 1107 01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:36,920 Speaker 1: and again I'm just like, oh my god, this is 1108 01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:42,440 Speaker 1: the intellectual bits and just understanding who we are because 1109 01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,360 Speaker 1: of this type of oppression. Yeah. Yeah again, like this book, 1110 01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:47,680 Speaker 1: I mean, this episode is one of our longer episodes. 1111 01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:50,360 Speaker 1: This book is only pages. She just packed so much 1112 01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,560 Speaker 1: in such a concise manner and everything. I was like, 1113 01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:54,840 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, we gotta talk about this. We got 1114 01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:56,520 Speaker 1: to talk about this, We gotta talk about this, and 1115 01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:58,440 Speaker 1: we do. We do want to come back and talk 1116 01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:02,080 Speaker 1: about it because that's something that both of us have 1117 01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,000 Speaker 1: been thinking about. Um A lot of this stuff we've 1118 01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:08,480 Speaker 1: been making. This kind of religious ben is something we've 1119 01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,840 Speaker 1: been thinking about. And then the book ends on a 1120 01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,000 Speaker 1: vision of the future and kind of you know, the 1121 01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:19,200 Speaker 1: making more of this education around feminism more accessible and 1122 01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:24,160 Speaker 1: and you know, raising these feminist children and all this stuff. 1123 01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:28,920 Speaker 1: And clearly we we think so highly of this book. 1124 01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,400 Speaker 1: If you have not read it, you should definitely check 1125 01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,200 Speaker 1: it out. There's just so much going on, and it's 1126 01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:39,040 Speaker 1: so thought provoking, and it's so just get you. Yeah, 1127 01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:42,800 Speaker 1: it's a great book club read. And I hope you 1128 01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:45,600 Speaker 1: all we'll pick it up and read it if you 1129 01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,320 Speaker 1: haven't already, and then come back and listen again and 1130 01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,120 Speaker 1: tell us what you have perspective is, because this is 1131 01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:52,160 Speaker 1: definitely one that should be discussed more and more. And 1132 01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,680 Speaker 1: I think she came back even though she had already 1133 01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,480 Speaker 1: been talking about these things and she's already lectured about 1134 01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,880 Speaker 1: these things to read format something that's coming back to question. 1135 01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:06,000 Speaker 1: And again we're back into a cyclical moment of having 1136 01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:10,200 Speaker 1: to uh justify why we say feminism is important and 1137 01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,920 Speaker 1: again why it has to be defined again, not readefined, 1138 01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:17,680 Speaker 1: but defined again with more inclusivity because of this and 1139 01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,040 Speaker 1: I think she does a great job in highlighting that 1140 01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:21,960 Speaker 1: I want to read it again. Maybe we need to 1141 01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:26,880 Speaker 1: do this as a yearly visit Yeah, I don't know, yeah, 1142 01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,080 Speaker 1: and bringing in more people to have discussions about it 1143 01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:32,400 Speaker 1: because it's such an important conversation, especially it's spot on 1144 01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,919 Speaker 1: obviously for our show, but it is a good introduction 1145 01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:40,480 Speaker 1: and that whole consciousness raising in what is feminism and 1146 01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:45,240 Speaker 1: why is it important? Exactly Totally agree, So go check 1147 01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:47,640 Speaker 1: it out. If you haven't already, please let us know 1148 01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:50,959 Speaker 1: your thoughts and your suggestions on what our next book 1149 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,880 Speaker 1: pick should be. You can email us the stuff in 1150 01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:55,560 Speaker 1: your mom Stuff at iHeart me you dot com. You 1151 01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:57,480 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or 1152 01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:59,440 Speaker 1: on Instagram and stuff I've Never told you things. It's 1153 01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:03,080 Speaker 1: always stirs up producer Christina. Thank you, Christina, Yes, and 1154 01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,120 Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening. Stuff one ever told you 1155 01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,080 Speaker 1: his protection of iHeart Radio for more podcast on my 1156 01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,280 Speaker 1: Heart Radio is the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or 1157 01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:10,840 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.