1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: McCormick and Robert. I've got a question. I know you've 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: got a good answer for. Do you ever do that 6 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: thing where you try to catch an awareness of now? 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: I feel like it's it's sort of the five year 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: old game, right. I remember I learned to play this 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: with myself when I was a little kid, where I 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: would think, no, win is now, No, it's now, it's now? 11 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: How soon is now? Exactly? Um? Yeah, it is like 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: a child's game to a certain extent, you know, as 13 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: you begin to become aware of time as an abstraction 14 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: and you ask yourself what is now? And then, of course, 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: one of the things about this question is you probably 16 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: keep asking yourself this question throughout your life, like there's 17 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: there's no putable answer that ever presents itself. Yeah, I 18 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: feel like so we have the sensation that we live 19 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: in the present moment, right, there is this idea of 20 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: the present. I think it's pretty much there and most 21 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: people's minds, because all cultures seem to have this idea 22 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: of the present. Maybe not all cultures, but most do 23 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: um And you've got this feeling that the past is 24 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: behind you and that's already happened, and the future is 25 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: in front of you. But in between you have this 26 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: present moment that I think is in a lot of 27 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: ways comparable to our relationship to the unconscious mind. And 28 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: what I mean by that is and you get the 29 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: feeling that a lot of your thinking and a lot 30 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: of what your brain does is unconscious. But you can 31 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: never catch the unconscious part of your mind in action. Right, 32 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: every time you try to be aware of how your 33 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: mind is working unconsciously, suddenly you're not unconscious anymore. You're 34 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: conscious of it. Like the flashlight of metacognition kicks on, 35 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: and you you can't be aware of un consciousness. Yeah, 36 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: it's the feeling of being strapped to a train. It's 37 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: hurtling farward through time and you can't quite turn your 38 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: head around to see all the various engine parts and 39 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: wheels and what have you that is propelling you. Yeah, 40 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: and I think that now, the now is kind of 41 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: like this. It's like you suspect that there was just 42 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: a now, but that now is no more. You you 43 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: can't really turn your attention to it. So you have 44 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 1: this general since you live in the moment of now, 45 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: but you've at least for me, I have never really 46 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: been able to fully become aware of the present. The 47 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: more I try, the more it's sort of becomes the 48 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: slippery tadpole where I'm trying to catch it between my 49 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: fingers and it's always squirming away. I know that there 50 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: are future now is coming, and I'm aware that past 51 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: now is have gone by, but I can never really 52 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: find the now of now. So that leads me to wonder, 53 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,119 Speaker 1: is there a now? Is there even such a thing 54 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: as the present? And if there is, what is it? 55 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: And if there isn't, what is this sense of now 56 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: that we experience and how does it shape our lives? Yeah, 57 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: it's a fabulous question, uh, and one that's so easy 58 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: to dismiss because we we have all these various metaphors 59 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: that will get into to sort of understand time, to 60 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: sort of tie time up in a little, neat, little 61 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:21,839 Speaker 1: package and set it on a shelf so we don't 62 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: have to really worry about it. Uh. And one of 63 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: those metaphors that we end up using, I think time 64 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: travel movies, time travel TV shows, I'm I'm watching another 65 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: one right now, and uh, and you know, the characters 66 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: are always moving around and picking what point in time, 67 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: what now they wish to go to, And it makes 68 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: you think of your now, your present moment as a 69 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: location on some sort of a line or a grid. Now, 70 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: for my own part, as far as mindfulness exercises go, 71 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: that that attempt to focus in on the present moment 72 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: and sort of unshackle yourself from past and future, I 73 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: think a lot of it does come down to focusing 74 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: on a rhythmic, ongoing process as opposed to trying to 75 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: you know, grab that moment, that now, or whatever you 76 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: want to call it. And usually the focus is on breathing, 77 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: because to focus your awareness upon your own breath is 78 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: to focus on the most immediate conscious exercise of the body. 79 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: It always reminds me of various adages about how God 80 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: is as close to you as your own breath, and 81 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: I believe in Islam, uh, they use the jugular or 82 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: the veins of the body in the same way, so 83 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: like it's as close to you as your own blood 84 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: or your own circulation. This flow of blood, the movement 85 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: of change through your body and through this pinpoint of experience. Uh. 86 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: And and when when I say pinpoint again, if you 87 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: try and grab that pinpoint and it it just you 88 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: cannot grasp it. And there are so many I mean, 89 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: I constantly think of the way literature explores this. I 90 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: mean it's a it's a recurring theme and a lot 91 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,799 Speaker 1: of our favorite books and stuff about how whenever somebody 92 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: has something good or something they want to remember, they 93 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: can never have it in the moment, you know, Oh yeah, yeah, 94 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: I mean so many books are about life and death. 95 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: Corman McCarthy has said that all great works of literature 96 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: about life and death. He can't have life and death 97 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: without time. He he has a great quote from The 98 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: Crossing that I'll read real quick. Snowflake. You catch the snowflake, 99 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: but when you look in your hand, you don't have 100 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: it no more. Maybe you see this day chatto, but 101 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: before you see it, it is gone. If you want 102 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: to see it, you have to see it on its 103 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: own ground. If you catch it, you lose it. And 104 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: where it goes there is no coming back from not 105 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: even God can bring it back. Oh that's great. Then 106 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: now then now is like the snowflake, Like if you 107 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: want to hold it in your fingers, it's gonna immediately melt. Yeah, 108 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: it's this, it's this kind of this uh, this concept 109 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: that we use to make sense of our experience of time. 110 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: But when you try and and study it, when you 111 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: level physics, neuroscience, philosophy. We're going to expose a number 112 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: of the different tools you might use to try and 113 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: cap sure than now, but time after time, that snowflake 114 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: just melts away into nothingness. So this will be the 115 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: first part of a two part episode, right, that's right. 116 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: So I think in the first one we're going to 117 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: focus more on like the the experience of time as 118 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: it relates to physical reality, and then in the second one, 119 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: we're going to try to look a little bit at 120 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: the philosophy of time and at neuroscience and psychology and 121 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: what they can shed light on the experience of now. Right, 122 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: And there's there's gonna be a lot of interconnectedness too. 123 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: So this is definitely a two parter to listen to 124 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: in order. Now, I would imagine if I was five 125 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: or six years old and playing this win is Now game. 126 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: I wasn't the first person to do this. This has 127 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: to go way back in human history. I can imagine 128 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: that the ancients were probably probably writing about this mystery 129 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: of what is the now? Even though we have a 130 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: sense of now, how come it's so hard to catch? 131 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean the great thinkers throughout time have 132 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: tackled this, and most of them have seemed rather frustrated 133 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: by the nature of and by the elusive nature of now. 134 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: For instance, Aristotle wrote about it in the Physics, which 135 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: is a fourth century b c. Text. He said, for 136 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: what is now is not a part. A part is 137 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: a measure of the whole, which must be made up 138 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: of parts. Time, on the other hand, is not held 139 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: to be made up of nows. And he goes on 140 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: again the now, which seems to bound the past and 141 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: the future. Does it always remain one and the same? 142 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: Or is it always other and other? It is hard 143 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: to say. In Aristotle goes on to address the difficulties 144 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: of time on both counts. Time is a series of 145 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: nows lined up like beads, h you know, back to back, 146 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: and the notion that now is a termination point on 147 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: a line extending infinitely in either direction. I think this 148 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,559 Speaker 1: serves to hint towards a debate that I think most 149 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: physicists would come down on one side. Of and the 150 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: debate is whether time is composed of continuous or discrete quantities. 151 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: Now you can think of all the the objects in 152 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: the world is made up of either continuous or discrete qualities. 153 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: One example would be that water seems to be a 154 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: continuous quantity. It just sort of like flows and there 155 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be units of it. But in fact, 156 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: through chemistry, we know that there are units of water. 157 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: There are h two O molecules. If you get down 158 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: to the molecular level, you can see that it is 159 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: discrete and not continuous, and you sort of have to 160 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: wonder if time is the same way. Time feels like 161 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: this continuous quantity, that there couldn't be like a single 162 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: smallest indivisible unit of time, could there be? Well, well 163 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: we will get into that a little but in this episode. 164 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: But it is one of those things where you can't say, oh, 165 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: how many so you want to meet me at the 166 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: coffee shop in three hours? How many times is that? 167 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: Can you can you break that down into indisputable um, 168 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: you know, micro portions of time. Well, I mean, obviously 169 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: you can have units of time, because we do, but 170 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: they they don't seem to be set by nature. There 171 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: doesn't appear to be a physical bottom limit to dividing 172 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: time into pieces. Yeah, there's not a like a lego 173 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: brick ification of time. I mean, if there is, it 174 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: is a brickification. It's it's the dividing up of time 175 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: into blocks that we can make sense off, but not 176 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: the the the unearthing of the pieces that make it up. 177 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: Though at the same time, this is going to keep happening, 178 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: isn't it. Later in this episode we will mention that 179 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: for the purposes of science there might be sort of 180 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: bottom units of time, but not necessarily for the universe itself. Yes, well, 181 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: we'll come back to that because I have more to 182 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: say on that as well. But for now, I guess 183 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: we should we should back up a little bit and 184 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: talk about just the basic experience of of now and 185 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: basic experience of time. Yeah, I guess we should look 186 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: to uh to physics for some definitions, Like if you 187 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: wanted to have a measure of time that wasn't just 188 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: you know Einstein's cheeky answer. Einstein would say, what's the 189 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: definition of time? It's what you read on a clock. 190 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: But you know he's joking, Like, if you're trying to 191 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: come up with the best physical universe based approximation of 192 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: what we mean by time? What is it? Well, I 193 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: mean it's at its most basic level, time is the 194 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: rate of change in the universe. The rate of change 195 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: in the universe, so the relationship between one point and 196 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: the next point in the history of an object. Yeah, though, 197 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: doesn't it get It gets tricky when you start bringing 198 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: in time based terms than to describe it when you 199 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,559 Speaker 1: bring in history, etcetera. Yeah, that's true. It's one of 200 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: those things like, uh, you know, the classics and in 201 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: the art of motorcycle maintenance question like how can you 202 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: define quality without invoking the concept of quality? How do 203 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: you define time without invoking the concept of time? Yeah, 204 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: I mean basically though, you have to say, all right, 205 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: we are creatures that live in a universe where there 206 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: is change, and stemming from that, we haven't live in 207 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: a universe of causation to where uh, the cause must 208 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: precede the effect of something, which certainly becomes important when 209 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: you start thinking about time travel and what have you. 210 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: We age the planets move around the Sun and things 211 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: fall apart, right entropy, Yeah, and this is often linked 212 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: to time. Right. Time seems to have something to do 213 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: with the direction of entropy in the universe. As as 214 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: things tend toward disorder thermodynamically, the time interval goes up. Yes. Now, 215 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: early humans quickly took note of the cyclical nature of 216 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: sun and stars and moon and the seasons, and they 217 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: utilize this information to organize their lives. Natural time mattered, 218 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: local time mattered, and for more ancient societies, the understanding 219 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: of time was as cyclical as the cosmic movements they observe. 220 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: The sun rose and set, people were born, and people died, 221 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: all in an endless cycle. We've touched on on this 222 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: this version of time many times on the podcast, and 223 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting to look to ancient societies and 224 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: see how much these markers of time, passage, and the 225 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: cyclical nature of the seasons and stuff really seemed to 226 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: matter to them. Like they often invested huge amounts of 227 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 1: resources and energy into projects for like marking celestial events 228 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: that would be recurring events. Yeah, why did they do that? 229 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: I mean, was that really necessary? I would I would 230 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: love to do a future episode where we explore this 231 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: more because one of the books that I used in 232 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: research here was Dan Falks In Search of Time, The 233 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: History of physics and philosophy of time and excellent volume, 234 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: and he devotes a lot of time to discussing these 235 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: ancient cultures and ancient people's, the Neolithic treatment of time, etcetera. Yeah, 236 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: that that would definitely be worth an episode. Like what 237 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: were the reasons these cycles were so meaningful in their lives? Yeah? 238 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: And it certainly was meaningful because that the repetition of 239 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: the cycle made things matter. I think it was really 240 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: Audio who said that encyclical time. Uh, any incident in 241 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: your life only matters insofar as it repeats uh an 242 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: archetypical moment of significance. Yeah. I think we can see 243 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 1: this distinction between the idea of cyclical time and linear 244 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: time showing up also in the types of like stories 245 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: that people like to consume. Yeah, Like, is is a 246 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: story meaningful because it recapitulates a story that's already been 247 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: told a million times? Or is it meaningful because it 248 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: tells a new story that's never been told before? Exactly? Now, 249 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: of course, this human society has became more modern, they 250 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: largely discarded cyclical time in favor of linear time, all 251 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: with a great deal of help from calendars and clocks. Now, 252 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: but before we go the Devil's contracts. Yes, Now, now, 253 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 1: before we go any further, uh, I thought we might 254 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: take a moment to talk about metaphors, because we've already 255 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: stepped in a number of them, and we're going to 256 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: continue to to use them intentionally and accidentally, as we 257 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: discussed now in time, I think it's just worth letting 258 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: you know out there that we have already had to 259 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: stop and edit out like at least a dozen times 260 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: we use the word time, right, So if you get 261 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: sick of hearing it a dozen times, then then just 262 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: know that we there were like three dozen instances that 263 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: were cut out, but it totally pervades all of our 264 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,319 Speaker 1: metaphors and our figures of speech, right, Yeah, I mean 265 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: that that's the really the damning thing about about time 266 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: is that nothing in our lives is as close and 267 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: personal and yet at the same time so abstract and 268 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: resistant to our understanding. But still we try, right, and 269 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: one of the ways that we we try to understand 270 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: time is we we roll out metaphors. As with consciousness. 271 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: Parts of part of the problem is that we're just 272 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: attempting to understand the thing from within it, uh, even 273 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: more so than the human mind. We can't step outside 274 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: the human experience of time to consider the thing. In 275 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: that book I mentioned by by Dan Falk in Search 276 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: of Time, The History, Physics and Philosophy of Time, he 277 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: points out that we've long turned to the river as 278 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: a way to understand the quote unquote flow of time. 279 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: And that's great because the river metaphor. He's totally right 280 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: that this is one of the most common metaphors used 281 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: for how time progresses. But it it is both a 282 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: great metaphor because the river is unstoppable and you have 283 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: no control over it. But it's also not quite right 284 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: because you can stand in a river and let it 285 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: flow past you. So for the river metaphor to really work, 286 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: you would have to sort of be part of the river, 287 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: and you would have to be on a boat, which 288 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: means it's essentially just another technology metaphor. Right. But even 289 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: in a boat, you can paddle, you can swim against 290 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: the current, you know all that, you would have to 291 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: essentially be the water itself, with no power whatsoever to 292 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: control your position upstream or downstream in the river. You 293 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: would just flow and that's all you could do. Yeah, 294 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: it's one of those metaphors that breaks down upon close examination. 295 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: As Fault points out, a river flows in respect to 296 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: the shore. But what are the banks of time? Um? 297 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: Another one that comes up a lot, and especially with 298 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: with modern for modern minds. Uh. Again, a technological metaphor 299 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: is that emotion pictures? Uh, it's it's a there's a 300 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: film playing and we are we're watching a portion of it, 301 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: and then there is a played portion and an unplayed portion, 302 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: and it's physically present in the you know, when you're 303 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: looking at a you know, an old school projector. But 304 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: also with the film, like you say, the river moves 305 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: with respect to the shore, the film plays with respect 306 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: to the viewer the projector. It would have to be 307 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: that the film just is a thing that plays itself 308 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: and that's all there is. Yeah, And in a way, 309 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: these examples some of a lot of the problems and 310 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: understanding time, especially as we get into the often explored 311 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: idea the time is an illusion because it feels real. 312 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: It's a central aspect of our conscious experience. It's a 313 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: part of the world we and as we see it 314 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: and understand it. But yeah, when you when you try 315 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: to focus in on it and grab it by the neck, 316 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: it just fades away, you know. We can mention this 317 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: in a bit. But I think that there are some 318 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: physicists who will say that time is an illusion in 319 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: that time itself is not necessary to describe the universe. 320 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,959 Speaker 1: But I think they're in the minority, right, I mean, 321 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: I think the majority of physicists would say, yeah, time 322 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: is a real thing. It's just that there's certain aspects 323 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: of it that are an illusion. Our our experience of 324 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: time is an illusion because it privileges this sense of now, 325 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: that time is like happening, and that maybe the future 326 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 1: has the potential to change and could be one way 327 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: or another, whereas you know, just looking at the physics, 328 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: there's no real reason to suspect that. Now. On on 329 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: the heels of this motion picture analogy, I should point 330 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: out that Max Tegmark, who will will come back to 331 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: again later on Max he likes to point out point 332 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: to a film on a DVD as a suitable metaphor. 333 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: So in this our life is a movie and space 334 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: time is the DVD. So just consider a DVD copy 335 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: of Risky Business? Is that his example or yours? Um? Oh? 336 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: You know, I can't. I can't remember because I keep 337 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: thinking back to this analogy and I always think of 338 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: risky business for some hand, for some reason, And I 339 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: can't remember if that was my flourish or his. But 340 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,239 Speaker 1: the idea here is the DVD doesn't change. So you 341 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: can't say Tom Cruise is traveling through the DVD. He's 342 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: traveling through the lifespan of the film, and so is 343 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: the viewer. Speed it up, slow it down. But the 344 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 1: physical DVD doesn't change. Yeah, the movie just exists, though 345 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: you can watch it. Yeah, then again the viewer from 346 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: the outside of the way. Yet again, all the metaphors 347 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: fall apart. Now, every ancient society developed a calendar system 348 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: of some sort, even prehistoric people exposed to the naked 349 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: cosmic expanse of her head, they noted the movement of 350 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: the heavens. And here's just another cool bit about technology 351 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: and our our measurement of time. I was reading James 352 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,439 Speaker 1: Burke's The Day of the Universe Changed, Uh, which was 353 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: one of his like two classic works on the history 354 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: of science and technology, and he made this point about 355 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: these of clocks and medievil times. He says that that 356 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 1: without calendars and clocks are written records memorable events marked 357 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: the time, such as seasonal activity surrounding the harvest, which 358 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: goes in with what we've been saying already. So that way, 359 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: it almost be like saying that instead of using a 360 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: ruler to measure distances, you'd measure distances by your by 361 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 1: your relationship to landmarks, you know, familiar important landmarks. And 362 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: so instead of using some kind of standard measure of time, 363 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: you measured them by relationship to festivals and important events. Right, 364 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: and here's here's what he had to say. Additionally, quote, 365 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: country people were intensely aware of the passage of the year. 366 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: But between these seasonal cues, time in the modern sense 367 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: did not exist. Even in rich villages, which could afford 368 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: a water clock or a sun dial, a watchman would 369 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: call out the passing hours, shouting them from the church tower. 370 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: The hours would echo through the surrounding countryside, shouted along 371 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: by the workers in the field. Units of time smaller 372 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: than an hour were rarely used. They would have no 373 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: purpose in a world that moved at the pace of nature. Man, 374 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: that's fascinating to consider. I mean, we so live in 375 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: a world of minutes and seconds. Now, I think could 376 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: it be that it's because we're surrounded by all these 377 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,640 Speaker 1: digital devices that keep time accurately and of course we're 378 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: on top of that, we're constantly bemoaning the relativistic experience 379 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: of time, you know, where we look at the clock 380 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: and we're like, we say, Jesus, where did that hour go? 381 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: I've been working for an hour. It doesn't feel like it. 382 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: Or you think, oh, man, I I've only been waiting 383 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: here ten minutes. It feels like an hour. So it 384 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: is you do wonder to what extent we we have 385 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: this this rigid timekeeping system and it ends up backfiring 386 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: on us because our bodies and our experience of time, 387 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: it still moves at the pace of nature. Do you 388 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: think that maybe hyper awareness and hyper acute keeping track 389 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: of time actually makes us more like cleared to squander time. 390 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: I would say the intuitive thing would be the opposite, 391 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: that if we're hyper aware of time, that we you know, 392 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: we'd be very careful how we spend our minutes. But 393 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: I wonder if there could be kind of some some 394 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: backfiring mechanism there, because I often think when I'm sitting 395 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: around sort of watching the clock while I wish I 396 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: was doing something else, I can really waste a lot 397 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: of time on the internet. Yeah, I find that to 398 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: be the case too. I mean part of it. Maybe 399 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: I just have poor time management skills, but uh, I'll 400 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: often find myself in the trap of thinking, oh, I 401 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: have I have two more hours before a particular you know, 402 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: self imposed deadline, and and then I'll squander fifteen minutes. 403 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: And then after fifteen minutes is passed, then I'll then 404 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: not Then I will say, oh, my goodness, fifteen minutes 405 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 1: is over, and then I'll feel bad for squanding theft 406 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: I can say from my own experience, I honestly think 407 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: that I make best use of my time when I'm 408 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: not really keeping track of time. Yeah, I think I'm 409 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: most productive. I think I use my time in ways 410 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 1: that i'm I'm glad. I'm the most glad about out 411 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: after it's done, when I'm not noticing the minutes going by. 412 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: All right, So, for the individual experiences of the productivity 413 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: may vary, but Falk points out that linear time becomes 414 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: a cornerstone of the Western world and may have paved 415 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 1: the way for the scientific and industrial revolutions quote which 416 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: in turn triggered an an affinity for reason and a 417 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: sense of progress. By the end of the seventeenth century, 418 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: Europeans viewed time as an abstract entity, holy, independent of 419 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: human activity. Oh, the horror, the de personalized time. That 420 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: it's not it's not really your time as a measure 421 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: of your experience, but that it's this universal quantity that 422 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: you must adhere to. Yeah, we're stuck with clock time 423 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: and on the surface of things that it seems like 424 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: a rigid and unflinching order. Right, that this thing that 425 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: we're we're enslave too. Right, we measure the passage of 426 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: time in a dreary procession of seconds, minutes, hours, and years. 427 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: But this doesn't mean that time actually flows at a 428 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: constant rate. Even the use of of of a sun 429 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: dial is the visual observation of the Earth's movements. And 430 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: and even this is not a set speed. The speed 431 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: of Earth's rotation is slowing because some of our angular 432 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: momentum is being transferred via tidal force to the Moon's orbit. 433 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: Now granted it's you know, slowing at a it's a 434 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 1: that's occurring at a very slow pace. But still this 435 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: is not a constant thing in the universe. Oh yeah, 436 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: I mean a couple of billion years ago, the Earth's 437 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: today was much shorter. In a couple more billion years, 438 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: it will be much longer, and just think how much 439 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,360 Speaker 1: you'll be able to get done. And that's not that's 440 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: without even getting into the topic of time dilation and 441 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: the observable reality the time flows at a different rate 442 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: depending on mass and speed. Which will be touching in 443 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: on that more as we proceed. And of course we 444 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: don't need machines to keep rhythm with the universe. Animals 445 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: and plants, uh, you know, all boast internal clocks to 446 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: keep them in sync with their environment. And the brain 447 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: plays a key role here. I have another quote from 448 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,239 Speaker 1: from Fall here that I thought was wonderful. Somehow we 449 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: take in a vast array of chaotic sensory data from 450 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: our environment and organize it into a meaningful picture of 451 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: our surroundings. But it is an ever changing picture. It 452 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: is a picture that evolves in time, a picture rooted 453 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 1: in time. Human beings have a remarkably sophisticated ability to form, store, 454 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: and recall these mental images. Memory, it seems, is all 455 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: about time. Now may just last a flickering moment, but 456 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: in our minds it can endure for decades. That's fantastic. 457 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: But I wonder about even the lasting of flickering moment 458 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: because what is going on in that flickering moment it 459 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: is now really being registered. I think we may have 460 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: some bones to pick with that. You know. All of 461 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: this makes me think of scientist Michael Graziano's attention schema 462 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: model of human consciousness. This is where attention and control 463 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: of attention play the crucial role in the human experience. Uh. 464 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: Coming back to the idea that time is the rate 465 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: of change in the universe, and then our brain service 466 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: service in navigating this world of change. It would make sense, 467 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't it that our brains would mirror the movement of causation. 468 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 1: The lion must attack before it kills, the fruit must 469 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: ripen before I can eat it, and thus my awareness follows. Yeah, 470 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: this draws a connection to something that I've discussed on 471 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: some other podcasts before. I think this came up in 472 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: old episodes of forward Thinking. But the idea of intelligence 473 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: being a function of time, this is something we don't 474 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: often think about. But imagine you were able to solve 475 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: really really difficult brain teaser type puzzles, but it took 476 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: you a thousand years to do it. Would that be intelligence? 477 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: I mean, would you call that intelligence? By by that 478 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: measure you could take all kinds of natural phenomena that 479 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: we don't usually think of as intelligent and call them intelligent, 480 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: Like you could call evolution itself intelligent by that measure, 481 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: because it solves amazingly complex, difficult problems. It just takes 482 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: millions of years to do it. Um. So at that point, 483 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: is it even intelligence or is intelligence something about acceleration 484 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: through time of solutions? Well, yeah, and that you get 485 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: into you into questions about emergent intelligence, the idea that 486 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: any sophistic sufficiently sophisticated system is going to essentially have intelligence, 487 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: though maybe not in a way that matches up directly 488 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 1: with our our conscious understanding of intelligence. Yeah, I mean 489 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: I think I would adhere to a definition of intelligence 490 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 1: that is necessarily rooted in some sense of time. And 491 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: this could make sense about why the evolution of intelligent 492 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: minds came about. I mean, as animals needed to move 493 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: faster to do things like our predation theory from the 494 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: Cambrian explosion, you know, as as as the speed of 495 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: life went up, was the need for intelligence increased? Well, 496 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: this makes me think about the you said, if it 497 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: takes a thousand years for you to solve a problem, 498 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: is it intelligence. A lot of that would would I think, 499 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 1: be relative to the life span of the creature. Right 500 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: and with the human example culture, So for a human being, 501 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: if a human being spends a lifetime solving a sufficiently 502 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: important problem, then it's considered a success. If if if 503 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: if the scientist spends their entire career developing a cure 504 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: for a terrible illness and they find it, they crack 505 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: that nut, then that's a success. Uh. But if you 506 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: look at it for more like a ancient humanoid situation, 507 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: then you could say, well, if a problem isn't solved 508 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: in you know, a day or two, then are you 509 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: really solving the problem because the the challenges are that 510 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: much more immediate, right And then if you're not a human, 511 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: if you're if you're an aunt, if you're if you're 512 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: a cat or a dog, then it seems like everything 513 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: would be well, it would be at least as immediate. 514 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: I mean, essentially, what I'm building up to here is 515 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: that it makes me think that the development of human intelligence, 516 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: or not human intelligence specifically animal intelligence, is link to 517 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: the fast moving demands of right now, like the fact 518 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: that decisions that need to be made quickly will strongly 519 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: affect your survival is what powers the development of problem 520 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: solving acceleration, which is what intelligence could be. Yeah, and 521 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: a lot of this, of course involves not only memory, 522 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 1: remembering what has come before, but being able to extrapolate 523 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: possible outcomes to engage in in mental time travel or chronesthesia, uh, 524 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: the idea where you can you can think about what 525 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: might happen if you do this, what might happen if 526 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: you do that? You essentially run through various simulations in 527 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: your mind without even necessarily, you know, consciously engaging in 528 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: the exercise. You're you're running the simulations, and it is 529 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: a remarkable to what extent we can run those simulations, 530 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: you know. It's the it's the same sort of energy 531 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: that that enables us to envision the far future of humanity, 532 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: whether it actually matches up with realistic expectations are not. 533 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: This is one of the many things about us that 534 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: I think we take for granted and we don't stop 535 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: to think how weird and amazing it is that we 536 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: can travel through time mentally forward and backward, and that 537 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: we can we can construct events that have not yet 538 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: happened out of events that happened in the past, and 539 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: are not before us right now. I mean, just just 540 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: pay attention to your dog, and then you can appreciate 541 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: how amazing this skill is because your dog doesn't really 542 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: seem to have much of this might have a little 543 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: inkling of it, but it's not robust in the way 544 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: yours is. And you should be thankful. Yeah, yeah, that 545 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: dogs and cats, animals in general, they live in the moment, 546 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: and uh, and there's a lot. I think there's a 547 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: lot to be learned from them. Someone argue that we 548 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: that's one of the greatest gifts that they they bestow 549 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: upon us, is that they allow us to connect with 550 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: the moment. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to rival the 551 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: joy of a dog getting ready to go on a walk. 552 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: Like I often think this. It happens every day. I'm 553 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: gonna take Charlie out. He's gonna poop in the leaves. 554 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: He's gonna smell a bunch of thorns and get stuck 555 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: on the face. And I've just never in my life 556 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: been as happy about anything as he is about the 557 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: fact that he gets to go poop in some leaves. 558 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: All right, On that note, we should probably take a 559 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: break and when we get back, we'll get more into 560 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: the physics of time, and then now all right, we're back. 561 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: So we talk about this present moment a lot, but 562 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: but what is a moment? A very brief period of 563 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: time that's generally that the the definition that you run across. Yeah, 564 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: it's hard to think about this once you start getting 565 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: picky about the geometry of time. So if you imagine 566 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: time as a space that you can map, and the 567 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: moment is maybe like a point along a timeline geometrically 568 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: a point, you know, it does not have like a length. 569 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: It is a point, right, it is it is of 570 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: infinite thinness. And time can't really be like that or 571 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: it wouldn't have any content, right, it would need to 572 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,479 Speaker 1: have some kind of content. So what is the length 573 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: of a moment of time? And if there is a 574 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: length of it, does it not just become a segment 575 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,479 Speaker 1: of time, in which case it's not really a moment 576 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: but a memory. Right. So you know, obviously we have seconds, 577 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: we have microseconds, and we have many different levels of 578 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: division beyond that, which I'm not going to list, but 579 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: you can you can look them up. There's some excellent 580 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: charts that that break down all the crazy variations of seconds. 581 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: Robert take me all the way down. That take me 582 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: turtles all the way down to the bottom of time. 583 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: Is there is there a smallest indivisible unit. Well, in physics, 584 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: we have the plank time. Uh, this is the time 585 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: required for light to travel in a vacuum a distance 586 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: of one plank length. That's essentially we're talking about five 587 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: point thirty nine times ten to the negative forty four 588 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: power seconds. That's a very short time. Yeah, it's in fact, 589 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: it's too fast for scientific observation, as it is dozens 590 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: of orders of magnitude faster than anything we can observe. 591 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: So you might ask yourself, well, is that the now 592 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: if we can't really break it down any further, that 593 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: that has to be there now? Right? Is that the 594 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: thing that time is made off? Sometimes I think you 595 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: see in like popular science articles that the plank time 596 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: gets brought up as like, oh, it is the fundamental 597 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: unit of time. It is the smallest indivisible unit. But 598 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: that's not really how it is. I mean, I don't 599 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: want to try to speak with too much authority. I'm 600 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: not a physicist on this level, but my understanding is 601 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: that plank time is not a fundamental indivisible unit. Of time, 602 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: but that it's the smallest measurement of time that really 603 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: makes sense within our dimensions theory, you know, within the 604 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: way we conceive of physics in the universe, and that 605 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: once you start dealing with smaller units of time you 606 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: can't do any meaningful calculations. Doesn't really mean that there 607 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: aren't smaller measurements of time, just that smaller measurements of 608 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: time would not be meaningful in our physics. Yeah, that 609 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: the briefest physically meaningful span of time. It makes me 610 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: think of what I like to think of as crumb theory. 611 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: With with my son, he's gotten out of this, but 612 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: there was a period of time where he would eat 613 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: something on his plate there was a little bit crumbly, 614 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: and then he would want more of it. But it's 615 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: it's almost like he could not see all the crumbs 616 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: that could be scooped together to make another, you know, spoonful, 617 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: another mouthful or two of the thing he wanted more of. 618 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: It's like those the crumbs were just too small to consider. 619 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: But you know, you, with a little bit of training, 620 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: you could make him see the crumbs within crumbs within crumbs. Yeah, 621 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: and I think he's getting there, but for a while, 622 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: it's like, I want another brownie. We'll how about all 623 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: those crumbs of brownie. I'm sorry, but those are not 624 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: significant quantities of brownie for me to think about. So 625 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: if you can't find a unit of now, that does 626 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: kind of undermine the concept that there is such a 627 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: thing as a now in the universe, you know, uh, 628 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: if it's all kind of these arbitrary units based on 629 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: our our ability to measure things in our physics and 630 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: our mathematical concepts the right. Yeah, but there remains this this, 631 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: this other question too that let's just say that now 632 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: is something that can't be really narrowed down to a 633 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: particular piece of time, but but it's there. Well, then 634 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: is it there for you and me? Is there? Are 635 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: we sharing the same now? It would it would seem 636 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: to just in our experience, right, I am in the 637 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: same room with you right now. Someone else is in 638 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: a room on the other side of the planet, and 639 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: we are in the same now, right. It makes sense. 640 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: But it certainly does. Because let's say you called the 641 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: other side of the planet with the telephone and somebody 642 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: answered the phone. You're both talking on the phone right now, right, Yeah, 643 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: So there does appear to be some very basic sense 644 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 1: of now that is meaningful. But it's not as simple 645 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: as that seems, right. And to break this down, we're 646 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: gonna have to to board the train of simultaneity. Oh boy, 647 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: So trains come up a lot in considerations of space time. 648 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: For instance, there's the idea that you could have a 649 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: clock measurements made by two people, one on the ground 650 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,399 Speaker 1: and one on a train nearing the speed of light. 651 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: Speed affects the passage of time on each person's wristwatch. 652 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: That's an example of one train thought experiment, but another 653 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: important one, and this is one that you see highlighted 654 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: time and time again. Falk mentions that other writers have 655 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: mentioned it because it is it is a central sort 656 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: of physics of time, philosophy of time, uh thought experiment, 657 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: and this one is used to illustrate the relativity of simultaneity. 658 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: So you're probably wondering what can thought experiments about simultaneous 659 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: events reveal about the nature of now. Well more than 660 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: you might think. In fact, I would just want to 661 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: point out for anybody who's like thought experiments, I don't 662 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 1: want to get caught up in that philosophical junk. Thought 663 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: experiments have powered some of the greatest revolutions in physics 664 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 1: and the twentieth century. Einstein's breakthrough his relativity was thought 665 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 1: experiments before it was proven experimentally, and now it is 666 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: proven experimentally. But so based on relativity, we'll go to 667 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 1: this thought experiment. Imagine you are standing in the middle 668 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: of a train car. You're right in the middle, and 669 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: you're holding a camera flash. And at each end of 670 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: the car, the front of the car and the back 671 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: of the car, there is another camera flash that's triggered 672 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: by a light sensitive photo diode. And this is a 673 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: thing that converts a light into an electric current. So 674 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: if light strikes either of these sensors on the front 675 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: of the car or the back of the car, the 676 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: flashes they're attached to will go off. And if you 677 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: were to shine a flashlight at just the front of 678 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,720 Speaker 1: the car sensor, that flash would go off, and vice versa. 679 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: I remember you were standing in exactly the middle of 680 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: the car, the exact halfway point between the front flash 681 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: and the back flash, and you're holding this camera flash 682 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,280 Speaker 1: of your own. So let's say you set off the flash. 683 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 1: What happens, Well, the sensors at the front and the 684 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: back of the car detect that light at exactly the 685 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: same time because you're equidistant from both of them, and 686 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 1: they both flash simultaneously. And this is all good, right, 687 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: But of course, what happens when you accelerate this train 688 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: to close to the speed of light, which you must 689 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: do in a in a proper train thought experiment light 690 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: speed train. Yeah, so again, we position ourselves in the 691 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: exact center of the car. We're traveling at almost the 692 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: speed of light on top of this train, and then 693 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: we set off our flash, so the photo diodes register 694 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: the light and we experience the two resulting flashes as 695 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: simultaneous occurrences. They occur now, So it's exactly the same 696 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: whether your train car is standing still or moving near 697 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: the speed of light. When you're in the car and 698 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: you set off the flash in the middle, you experience 699 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: the front flash and the back flash going off at 700 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: exactly the same time, even if the car is traveling 701 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: at you know, of the speed of light, and you 702 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: might be thinking like, wait a minute, why is that? 703 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: How can how can that be true if the car 704 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: is moving so fast. Well, it's because we know from 705 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: relativity the speed of light is constant for all observers 706 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,319 Speaker 1: the speed of light in a back and this could 707 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: be complicated by if you imagine like air and stuff 708 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: in the car. But let's just say there's a vacuum 709 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: speed of light, and a vacuum is constant for all observers, 710 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: so the flashes at the front of the car in 711 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: the back of the car would go off at the 712 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,760 Speaker 1: exact same time. But here's where it gets really weird. 713 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: Imagine an observer on the train platform as your hyperspace 714 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 1: train goes by the speed of light, and there that 715 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: that observer is able to watch what's going on in 716 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: the car at the same time that you are doing it. 717 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: This person would see something completely different than what you're seeing. Yeah, 718 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: to their eyes. The flash in our hands at the 719 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: middle of the train triggers the rear flash first and 720 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: the frontal flash second, So two simultaneous events are no 721 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: longer seen is simultaneous from the outside, Two events happening 722 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: in the now are in separate. Now's yes, and this 723 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: is the weirdness of the world we live in, and 724 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: relativety proves it. The speed of light is constant for 725 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: all observers, so the person in the light speed train 726 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,879 Speaker 1: car experiences both flashes at the same time, the light 727 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: has to travel the same distance to each one. Meanwhile, 728 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: this outside observer sees the sensor at the back of 729 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: the train car essentially chasing the light from the flash 730 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: in your hand. The cars moving really fast, and that 731 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: back of the car sensor is chasing the flash to 732 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,439 Speaker 1: catch up with it. Meanwhile, the censor at the front 733 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 1: of the train car is essentially running away from the 734 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: flash at nearly the speed of light, so the light 735 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: takes much longer to reach it. And this is not 736 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,879 Speaker 1: some trick of perception for the outside observer. The light 737 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,440 Speaker 1: at the back of the train car actually does go 738 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: off first, even though they still go off simultaneously for 739 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: you inside the train car. Yeah, that is That is 740 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 1: crazy to to try and wrap one's head around. Yeah, 741 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: but this is the truth of relativity. There is no 742 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: now except for maybe your own personal now. There is 743 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: no universal now. There's no now that is also now 744 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: somewhere far away, and according to Falk, it gets worse. Uh. 745 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: This is one final quote from him here, I think 746 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: says quote, what do we mean when we say a 747 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,879 Speaker 1: particular event is happening now? When we use the word now, 748 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: we are really comparing two events, I can snap my 749 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: fingers and then ask whether some other event is simultaneous 750 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 1: with my fingers snapping or not. If it is, I 751 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 1: say that the the event is happening now in the 752 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 1: Newtonian universe, I can legitimately ask what events in the 753 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: universe are happening right now. The answer would be a 754 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: unique set of occurrence is scattered throughout space, but lying 755 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: on a single slice of time, I can snap my 756 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: fingers and say, at say noon Eastern Standard time in 757 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: December first, two thousand nine, and every event everywhere in 758 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: the universe either is simultaneous with my finger snapping or 759 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,839 Speaker 1: it is not. That was fine for Newton, but not 760 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,359 Speaker 1: for Einstein. As we have seen in special relativity, there 761 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: is no universal agreement among observers as to whether two 762 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: events actually are simultaneous or not, and thus there can 763 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: be no universe personal now. So no now, no now 764 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: for anybody. And this is not a like a time 765 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,879 Speaker 1: zone differential here, well, no hold on. I would say 766 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: that this doesn't mean there is no now for anybody. 767 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:14,399 Speaker 1: There's no now for anybody. That's also now for anybody else. Uh, 768 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 1: though in many cases your nows are going to be 769 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: close enough together that it's fine for everyday purposes, Like 770 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna be able to coordinate now is pretty well 771 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: with the people around you. But this is not a 772 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,280 Speaker 1: feature of the universe. This is just like a close 773 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 1: enough approximation that it doesn't matter, right, But I mean 774 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,960 Speaker 1: with enough space, uh, enough distance between people, if we 775 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 1: were to reach such a point, or or indeed, if 776 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,760 Speaker 1: there are other intelligent life forms that are perceiving time 777 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: in another world, my now could be in their future 778 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 1: or in their past or vice versa. Yeah, and think 779 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 1: about this from this kind of science fiction standpoint. So 780 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,280 Speaker 1: we use the concept of now in our politics. For example, 781 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's very important that everybody has the election 782 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,280 Speaker 1: at the same now. Right. You can't have the election 783 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: one day for one group and then you know, next 784 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 1: year for another group and still function properly, right, So 785 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: you need to be able to coordinate events temporally in 786 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,319 Speaker 1: order to get a polity working as it should. But 787 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,439 Speaker 1: try to imagine an interstellar civilization doing something like this. 788 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: And this is one of the questions that I think 789 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: sort of gets overlooked, and a lot of science fiction 790 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 1: imaginings of interstellar civilization spread out across vast distances of 791 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 1: the universe. Is the way that the ability of these 792 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: uh you know, top down administrative controls would really be 793 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 1: utterly crippled by the time differences that essentially by the 794 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,240 Speaker 1: lack of a consensus now between all of the people 795 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,719 Speaker 1: within their control. Yeah. This this is something that came 796 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 1: up in our the episode We Christian and I did 797 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: a while back about Interplanetary War that there have been 798 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 1: people who have commented that you could not have an 799 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: inter interstellar empire like you see in Dune or Star Wars, 800 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: or or Star Trek if you want to call those, 801 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: I guess they're empires in some cases because you could 802 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: not maintain order over such vast distances. I wouldn't say 803 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,399 Speaker 1: necessarily that you couldn't maintain order, but that it would 804 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: be extremely difficult to maintain organization. Yes, I would say instead, 805 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: what you could maybe do is maintain order in a 806 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,239 Speaker 1: very brutal way. And maybe this actually explains the brutality 807 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: of the empire in Star Wars, because this is the 808 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 1: galactic empire, right, It's spanning hundreds of thousands of light years. Uh, 809 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,239 Speaker 1: you essentially have to just be able to whip everybody 810 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,959 Speaker 1: in line the moment you show up, because you can't 811 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:49,359 Speaker 1: keep them on schedule of normal political uh obedience. It 812 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: does make me think of of actual terrestrial models of 813 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 1: empire though, like particularly when you look at at at 814 00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,359 Speaker 1: the history of China, Like what was one of the 815 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: factors that enabled such such such excellent um unification of 816 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,080 Speaker 1: of different people's And one of them is measurements. It's 817 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,040 Speaker 1: it's making sure everybody's using the same measurements than the 818 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,799 Speaker 1: same currency. Right, And if you write, if you've got 819 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,560 Speaker 1: like a coin that's supposed to have the same value 820 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 1: at different sides of the empire, but they've got different 821 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,560 Speaker 1: amounts of gold in them, that might be a problem. Right, 822 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: it's also worth noting, um this would you'd have to 823 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 1: I think we'd have to do more studied early pieces apart. 824 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: But if you go to China, all one time zone. 825 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: There is one time zone in China, uh, no matter 826 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,120 Speaker 1: which end of the country you are on. All right, 827 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 1: So we're gonna take one more break and when we 828 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:43,840 Speaker 1: come back, we will jump back into the physics of now. Alright, 829 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:45,880 Speaker 1: we're back. So I wanted to mention just a couple 830 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: more interesting ideas from physicists physicists about the way in 831 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:54,160 Speaker 1: which time is conceived for the individual and about the 832 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: experience of now. So there's a book by the Dartmouth 833 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,480 Speaker 1: physicists Marcello Glyzer called The Island of Knowledge, The Limits 834 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 1: of Science and the Search for Meaning. And I think 835 00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 1: Glyzer makes a kind of interesting point about our concept 836 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 1: of the present. Of course, as we've established so far, 837 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: the present is not a description of anything that exists 838 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,520 Speaker 1: in reality. It's merely an impression created by our brains. 839 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,280 Speaker 1: But one of the things he highlights is that the 840 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,480 Speaker 1: our impression of the present, at least the thing that 841 00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,400 Speaker 1: feels like the present to us, even if there is 842 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: no universal simultaneity, even that thing has clear physical limits. 843 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 1: And he ends up describing this concept known as the 844 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: sphere of now. So here's an example. What are you 845 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,600 Speaker 1: looking at right now, not a few seconds ago, but 846 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,160 Speaker 1: right this minute? You know, if you're if you're like 847 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 1: many of our listeners, I would bet it's either a 848 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,560 Speaker 1: car in front of you in traffic, a person sitting 849 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,360 Speaker 1: across from you on the train, or some people ahead 850 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: of you on the next row of treadmills. Okay, so 851 00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,280 Speaker 1: I'm wondering whether this is going are we basically getting 852 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,840 Speaker 1: the idea that now is related to proximity? Yeah, exactly. 853 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 1: Uh so here's my real example, And just imagine instead 854 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,040 Speaker 1: of all that you're looking at a VHS copy of 855 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,160 Speaker 1: Highlander to the quickening I wish. Yeah, you're holding it 856 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,400 Speaker 1: a few feet from your eyes, and uh, whatever this 857 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 1: thing is, you have to realize in a technical sense 858 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:23,839 Speaker 1: that you're not really seeing the object as it is now. Now, 859 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:28,160 Speaker 1: this the time difference here probably doesn't matter enough to 860 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 1: really make a difference in your life. But the light 861 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 1: that reflects off the object or emits from it is 862 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,480 Speaker 1: traveling at a speed of about three million meters per second, 863 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,719 Speaker 1: and the light of the light gets absorbed by your 864 00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: retina after it bounces off the object, a tiny, tiny 865 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,840 Speaker 1: fraction of a second after the time it leaves the object. 866 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,000 Speaker 1: So if the object you're looking at is within a 867 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,080 Speaker 1: few feet, it's too fast to make much of a 868 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: difference in your behavior or anything like that. But it's 869 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,600 Speaker 1: worth remembering this, and this really does matter over longer distances. 870 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,360 Speaker 1: So imagine you're looking at an object on the moon. 871 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,759 Speaker 1: Once an object is on the moon, even though the 872 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,279 Speaker 1: moon is regularly visible to us, the difference is noticeable. 873 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,400 Speaker 1: So if you say that there are armies of urukai 874 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,600 Speaker 1: standing on the surface of the Moon mooning us, we 875 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:20,600 Speaker 1: wouldn't see that for about one seconds roughly, because light 876 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,919 Speaker 1: travels at about three thousand kilometers per second, the Moon 877 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,120 Speaker 1: is on average about three eight kilometers away, so it's 878 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: about a second and a quarter delay between the Earth 879 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:35,040 Speaker 1: and the Moon. And no ordinary matter, energy or information 880 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 1: can travel faster than the speed of light, And so 881 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:39,880 Speaker 1: in a sense you can think about the speed of 882 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,960 Speaker 1: light not only is the speed of the photons, but 883 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,400 Speaker 1: really as the speed of causality. I don't know if 884 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,320 Speaker 1: you've heard about this concept before, but that the speed 885 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,480 Speaker 1: of light is sometimes interpreted in the universe is the 886 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,840 Speaker 1: maximum speed at which things can happen, at which a 887 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,759 Speaker 1: thing can affect another thing, meaning that information is in 888 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: some sense traded. Yeah. I think that's that's really good, because, 889 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,120 Speaker 1: especially in sci fi scenarios, we we tend to just 890 00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: think of it's easy to just fall into the travel 891 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,440 Speaker 1: of just thinking about speed and travel and movement from 892 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,560 Speaker 1: point A to point B, and not think about breaking 893 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 1: that down into the simple rate of change and things happening. Yeah, 894 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,839 Speaker 1: and so so think about it. What could happen on 895 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,919 Speaker 1: the Moon to affect the Earth faster than the speed 896 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,680 Speaker 1: of light? I mean, nothing, nothing, and unless you might 897 00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,120 Speaker 1: want to invoke some kind of quantum weirdness, but you know, 898 00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,279 Speaker 1: nothing on the macro scale. The only thing that comes 899 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,840 Speaker 1: to mind is like cosmic expansion, and I you know, 900 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,759 Speaker 1: I'd kind of have to twist myself in a not 901 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 1: to come up with a reason for that to occur 902 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,759 Speaker 1: at the Moon, Like it would have to involve like 903 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 1: galactics showing up or something I don't know. Wouldn't that 904 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:51,919 Speaker 1: be a great way for the Earth to end? Though? 905 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:53,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying I want the Earth's end. 906 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,000 Speaker 1: I love the Earth. I think the Earth should just 907 00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,200 Speaker 1: keep on going. But if it has to end, wouldn't 908 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,560 Speaker 1: it be great if it ends by sudden on expected 909 00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: rapid cosmic expansion. We'd never be able to realize it, though, right, Yeah, 910 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 1: everything just kind of flies apart. It might as well, 911 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,279 Speaker 1: I mean, everybody's life ends, and you might just as 912 00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,000 Speaker 1: well assume that that's what occurs. But of course, in 913 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,719 Speaker 1: your moment of now, would you be able to realize that? Yeah? 914 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:18,560 Speaker 1: I guess. I guess we'll get more into that in 915 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,880 Speaker 1: the next episode. Um, but yeah, I mean we've already 916 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,600 Speaker 1: talked a little bit about the the effects of time dilation, 917 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,480 Speaker 1: of course due to Einstein special and general theories of relativity, 918 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,360 Speaker 1: but those really made it possible for us to understand 919 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,479 Speaker 1: that both speed and gravity cause time to change. Time 920 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,759 Speaker 1: speeds upper slows down relative to outside observers. So you know, 921 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 1: if you synchronize two watches on earth surface and then 922 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,759 Speaker 1: you take one far out into space, like you take 923 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,160 Speaker 1: it to the Moon, the watch on Earth will run 924 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,399 Speaker 1: slightly slower than the watch on the Moon. And this 925 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,479 Speaker 1: isn't theoretical, this is experimentally proven, not on the Moon, 926 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,600 Speaker 1: but with the surface of Earth and higher altitudes. If 927 00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,440 Speaker 1: you doubt that, look up the half Ela keating experiments 928 00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:04,439 Speaker 1: where these a synchronize some precise atomic clocks. Then put 929 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,160 Speaker 1: some in high altitude vehicles or in you know, basically airplanes. 930 00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,000 Speaker 1: I don't know why I call them my altitude vehicles. 931 00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,919 Speaker 1: Let's just be needlessly confusing. Put them in airplanes flying 932 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 1: around far from Earth's surface to show that time really 933 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,839 Speaker 1: does pass differently depending on how far you are from 934 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,839 Speaker 1: Earth's large center of gravity. But anyway, Glazer uses all 935 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,120 Speaker 1: this to to talk about this concept he refers to 936 00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,960 Speaker 1: as the sphere of now, and he ends up saying 937 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:36,440 Speaker 1: that the present exists quote because our brain blurs reality. 938 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,160 Speaker 1: That our sense of the present, really, I think for 939 00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:45,120 Speaker 1: him is some kind of like illusion created by the 940 00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:50,240 Speaker 1: brain putting together some elements from different moments of time 941 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,960 Speaker 1: that are within the causality of our sphere of now. Okay, 942 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:55,440 Speaker 1: I like this. I like this idea of that the 943 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,800 Speaker 1: sphere of now. It's a nice sort of physical, visible 944 00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,560 Speaker 1: metaphor that we can employ. One more thing about moments 945 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:04,879 Speaker 1: in time I wanted to mention was an article from 946 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,919 Speaker 1: October for Nautilus, again with the physicist Max teg Mark 947 00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,759 Speaker 1: Mad Max, who is great for exploring all kinds of 948 00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:16,279 Speaker 1: weird corners of physics, uh and strange hypothetical Some would 949 00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:22,440 Speaker 1: say nonsense, others would say ambitious, ambitious trains of thought. Um. 950 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,239 Speaker 1: But he comes up with trying a picture. Essentially, he's 951 00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,440 Speaker 1: trying to create a model for what space time looks like. 952 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,360 Speaker 1: And I think he's not the first person to imagine 953 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,760 Speaker 1: things like this. Stephen Hawking sort of tried to imagine 954 00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,400 Speaker 1: things like this, but essentially he said, try to picture 955 00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,719 Speaker 1: the three dimensions of space that we live in collapse 956 00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,480 Speaker 1: down to the form of a two dimensional snapshot, like 957 00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,239 Speaker 1: a you know, a photograph. And let's say you've got 958 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,759 Speaker 1: a little square polaroid of the Earth in the Moon 959 00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,360 Speaker 1: taken from a point in space above the North Pole. 960 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,239 Speaker 1: And you take one photo, and you see the Earth 961 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:54,960 Speaker 1: is in the center and the Moon is at one 962 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,240 Speaker 1: spot in its orbit. And then you take another photo 963 00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 1: and the Moon is a little bit further along in 964 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,080 Speaker 1: its orbit. And no, imagine you just keep taking these 965 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:06,759 Speaker 1: polaroids continuously as fast as you could possibly take them, 966 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,799 Speaker 1: and then you stack them on top of each other 967 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,120 Speaker 1: sequentially to form a tower. Now the height of the 968 00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,520 Speaker 1: tower of polaroids here has become the dimension of time. 969 00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:19,480 Speaker 1: Now imagine all these photos not as individual photos, but 970 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,319 Speaker 1: integrated together into a three D image. And what you 971 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,440 Speaker 1: would sort of get out of this when you imagine 972 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,840 Speaker 1: the Earth and the Moon images stacked sequentially, is you 973 00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,759 Speaker 1: would get a cylinder of the Earth passing through the 974 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:36,000 Speaker 1: middle of this box, and then a spiraling corkscrew of 975 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,600 Speaker 1: the Moon going all all the way around it, over 976 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,279 Speaker 1: and over again. And this is a way he comes 977 00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:45,279 Speaker 1: up with of of picturing for d spacetime. Now, this 978 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,919 Speaker 1: is the interesting thing, he says. Try to imagine all 979 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,919 Speaker 1: the elementary particles in your body this way, like they 980 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:56,480 Speaker 1: begin to accumulate in this box, Like all these strands 981 00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,279 Speaker 1: start coming together around the time of your conception. And 982 00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,359 Speaker 1: as the elementary particles in your body move around, as 983 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,960 Speaker 1: blood cells ring around your circulatory system, as your nervous 984 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,879 Speaker 1: system passes around sodium and calcium and potassium ions, all 985 00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,400 Speaker 1: of these complex interactions make the shape of this immensely 986 00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:19,040 Speaker 1: complex braid in your time tower. And every time you eat, 987 00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,040 Speaker 1: and every time you breathe, every time you eliminate waste, 988 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,920 Speaker 1: new strands and little hairs get pulled into this braid 989 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,680 Speaker 1: or go out from it. And at the end of 990 00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,760 Speaker 1: your life, of course, the braid unravels and the strands 991 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:35,120 Speaker 1: all go their own way. I've never really heard it 992 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,360 Speaker 1: put this way before that he's not the first to 993 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,839 Speaker 1: imagine a sort of block of space time like this, 994 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,359 Speaker 1: but he's the first I've ever heard describe it as 995 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,200 Speaker 1: a braid of particles through time. And I think that's 996 00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:48,440 Speaker 1: just beautiful. Yeah, it does seem far more in keeping 997 00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,520 Speaker 1: with it just the complexity of of time, as as 998 00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:53,640 Speaker 1: we are discussing it here when we start drawing in 999 00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:58,200 Speaker 1: these these physical understandings of what's occurring. But of course 1000 00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,280 Speaker 1: if you look at this image, you have to say, okay, 1001 00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,200 Speaker 1: what then is the moment? Is their room for now 1002 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,920 Speaker 1: in this image? If there is, there's only a metaphorical 1003 00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,800 Speaker 1: one that's been created here in this h this image 1004 00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:15,080 Speaker 1: we've come up with, it's not really analogous exactly to reality. 1005 00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:16,960 Speaker 1: But what you'd have to picture is sort of a 1006 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,719 Speaker 1: not right that the now has become just this tangle 1007 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,960 Speaker 1: that can't really be understood. It's a cross section that 1008 00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:29,080 Speaker 1: can't be understood without all of the braid before it 1009 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,080 Speaker 1: and after it. Isn't that perfect though, This thing that 1010 00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:35,960 Speaker 1: is so easy to dismiss as this, this single point, this, 1011 00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:41,640 Speaker 1: this smallest common denominator, is actually this enormous tangle of complexity. Yeah, 1012 00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,120 Speaker 1: and tech Mark even says quote some people find it 1013 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:48,040 Speaker 1: emotionally displeasing to think of themselves as a collection of particles. 1014 00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:49,920 Speaker 1: I got a good laugh back in my twenties when 1015 00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:53,880 Speaker 1: my friend Amile addressed my friend Matt's as an atom 1016 00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,480 Speaker 1: hoge Swedish for adam heap Uh in an attempt to 1017 00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:00,759 Speaker 1: insult him. However, if someone says I can't believe I'm 1018 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,279 Speaker 1: just a heap of atoms, I object to the use 1019 00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:07,600 Speaker 1: of the word. Just The elaborate spacetime braid that corresponds 1020 00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,520 Speaker 1: to their mind is hands down the most beautifully complex 1021 00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,640 Speaker 1: type of pattern we've ever encountered in our universe. The 1022 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:17,120 Speaker 1: world's fastest computer, the Grand Canyon, or even the Sun, 1023 00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,840 Speaker 1: their spacetime patterns are all simple in comparison. In other words, 1024 00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,960 Speaker 1: there's no braid like life. So I guess that's probably 1025 00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:26,839 Speaker 1: gonna wrap it up for today's episode, but we will 1026 00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:28,719 Speaker 1: come back next time because I feel like we haven't 1027 00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:30,719 Speaker 1: gotten to the bottom of this question that we've sort 1028 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,919 Speaker 1: of discussed. How there is no external or objective now. 1029 00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,400 Speaker 1: There's no now from the perspective of the universe that 1030 00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,680 Speaker 1: really makes any sense to talk about, and yet there 1031 00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,799 Speaker 1: very much is a sense of now that feels like 1032 00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,799 Speaker 1: it makes sense in our lives. So what is that now? 1033 00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,680 Speaker 1: What's going on in our brains when we conceive of 1034 00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:52,920 Speaker 1: the now? And I think that's what we will explore 1035 00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,600 Speaker 1: next time. Yeah, join us as we we look at 1036 00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,320 Speaker 1: the philosophy of now, as well as the psychology and 1037 00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,359 Speaker 1: Neuroscience of the now M. In the meantime, be sure 1038 00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,440 Speaker 1: to check out all our other episodes. That's Stuff to 1039 00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,200 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com. That's where you'll find again 1040 00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:10,040 Speaker 1: all the podcast episodes as well as blog post videos, 1041 00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:14,560 Speaker 1: links out to our various social media accounts such as Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, 1042 00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,160 Speaker 1: and Instagram, and if you want to email us. As always, 1043 00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,359 Speaker 1: you can hit us up at blow the Mind at 1044 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:32,000 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com for more on this and 1045 00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,560 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works dot 1046 00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:57,640 Speaker 1: com