WEBVTT - Patriots Dynasty Doc Recap, Episodes 9 & 10 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.280 Some of the content in this podcast may not be 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:03.760 suitable for all audiences. 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:05.800 Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:10.080 It's time now for another episode of The Dynasty wrap 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:13.000 up show. Matt Smith alongside with Mike Usoa Paul Brillow. 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.240 The ten part documentary event The Dynasty New England Patriots 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:21.080 is streaming now exclusively on Apple TV Plus. Series is over, 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:26.239 Guys nine and ten is over. Paul off the ear, 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:28.920 you made a comment, Mike, I think you might have 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:32.000 made it too. You really liked these two episodes, Paul, 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:32.360 tell me why. 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:34.200 Yeah. I thought it was a good finish. I thought 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.400 it started strong the series, and I think it ended strong. 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.040 I mean, there's obviously things that we're going to talk about, 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:42.680 you know, the next half hour, so that you know, 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.760 some some quibbles and problems with things they included. But 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:48.879 I thought that they did a good job of illustrating 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:54.120 what had become an untenable divide between Bill Belichick, Tom 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:58.160 Brady with Robert Kraft sort of trying to mediate from 0:00:58.200 --> 0:00:59.920 the outside with some of that stuff new to. 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:02.240 You, sure, I mean that was what made it good 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.360 for me, And I think there was so much speculation 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.039 during that time, a lot of it between the fans 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.640 and the media and what's really going on, and some 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.400 people don't want to believe, you know, that there's anything 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:14.720 going on. And I think that these episodes and not 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:17.880 only shine a light that there were things going on 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:22.360 and from the people themselves, but they also in landed 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:24.679 the plane. They also brought it all back together for 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:26.240 me in a way that said, you know what, it 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.319 wasn't perfect. It was definitely bumpy at the end, and 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:30.240 there were you know, people that were not as quite 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:32.440 as happy with each other as they once were. But 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.000 in the end it all worked. This is the Dynasty 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:37.000 still and you still kind of I still left with 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:38.679 a good feeling. I got chills down the end of 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.399 that second episode, episode ten. So I thought they really 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:43.880 did a good job, especially just shining a light on 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.120 really kind of a mysterious period of the end of 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:46.560 the Patriots. 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.720 Dynis Mike probably touches on something that you know, you 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:51.320 at like, you know, what do you like about those 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:53.760 last two episodes while we and it probably is a 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.240 selfish thing because I remember doing shows. We were doing 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.840 shows right here, you know, talking about in sort of 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.680 you know, reacting to various reports that were coming out 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.720 seth Wickersham things and one after not we just got 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:10.600 beaten up. Why are you listening to these reports? What 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.960 do you know? You know whose talks like that? What 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:16.840 you're just making it up? Now, this is not reality. 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.919 And what these two episodes and really the whole documentary 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:24.079 series showed was that they weren't making it up. There 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.200 was issues. They held it together. It's amazing they held 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.280 it together as long as they did, but they were 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.480 issues at the end that were causing it to be 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:35.160 sort of untenable and coming to an inevitable end. 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:40.160 So let's quibble. Starting with episode nine, and I've used 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:44.120 this line before. Who had Fife and Drum and Trump 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.040 to kick off episode nine on their bingo card? 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:50.280 I thought that was a really interesting way to open 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:52.320 it up. And I think, you know, you assumed that 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:55.280 there was tension there with the team and obviously everything 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:57.640 that was going on. I always kind of felt like 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.960 I knew that Bill Belichick and Donald Trump had relationship prior, 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:02.639 and I always kind of felt like Donald Trump threw 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:04.960 Bill Belichick under the bus by reading a personal letter 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:08.440 out loud and probably never something that Bill Belichick wanted 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.079 getting out, knowing how private he was. But I also 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.520 thought they kind of glossed over Brady having the MAGA 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:15.800 hat and his thing as well, so you know, there 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.480 was him being on the sideline as a guest of craft, right, 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:20.520 and that they didn't mention it though, and they mentioned it, 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.320 but they didn't say that detail though, did they. They 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:24.360 didn't point that out about Brady. They said the three, 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:26.440 but they didn't say anything out Brady. So that that 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.240 was what stood out to me. And again that's a 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.280 relationship that went back before Donald Trump became a political 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:34.760 figure and mailed him a hat and it didn't mean 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:36.680 what it means now, and Brady had in his locker, 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:38.680 So I don't, you know, necessarily think that those things 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:40.720 were meant to be over signs of support for the 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.280 policies of Donald Trump. But they kind of got caught 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.640 in that whole situation and caught up in. 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.160 And I thought, you know, mccordy and Slater were good 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.360 on that topic. I think Slater said something to the 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.320 effect of he didn't think that that Belichick at the 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.680 time was maybe connected enough to the players, And I 0:03:56.720 --> 0:04:00.560 thought that was a strong comment. The same time, I 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:01.880 do step back and I look at it just the 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.520 way you just said, Mike, with the you know, the 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.320 Trump thing was you know, I don't really think the 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.480 Trump thing was a huge part of this divide. I mean, 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:12.880 I know, on the surface it looks that way. At 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.600 the time, my mind's eye didn't tell me that that 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.159 was a big part of the issues between coach and player. 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:22.520 It was kind of a thing that got really heated 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.400 at the time league wide, you know, and then you know, 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:27.800 Trump coming out and then you know, saying these guys 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.520 should be fired and things like that. Trump sort of 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:33.560 was at the firestorm of that more so that I 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.280 thought than the Patriots individual, right, I'm not here to. 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:39.920 Defend Bill and Bill's taking some shots of this. I 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:44.640 actually thought Bill's response with regards to the question about 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:49.279 Trump made a lot of sense. Yeah, you know, I've 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:54.440 heard Robert Craft say the same thing. They were friends first. Obviously, 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:59.400 his presence in the political arena has blown up as 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:01.000 to what people think of him and everything like that. 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.359 But at the end of the day, Bill Belichick was 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:07.080 friendly with Donald Trump, as was Robert Kraft with Donald Trump. 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.200 They didn't look at him as a Republican nominee or 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.520 the president of the United States and then when he 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:14.760 becomes that he probably used things to his advantage. That 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.960 probably did Bill and Robert and Tom to that for 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.200 that matter, with the hat a disservice. 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.120 So I and I would just say, like, you know, 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.680 you asked, you know what our squabbles are, you know 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:28.920 what of our problems, quibbles whatever, Okay, So I would 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:30.720 just say, you do a good job of sort of 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:34.279 presenting the landscape. At the time, they show that sort 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:36.440 of powerful moment with all the players. I think it 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.200 was the Houston game where they're all taken a knee 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.080 and that was a huge I'm not disminishing it was 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.800 a huge thing at the time. What was the what 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.880 do you what do you remember about the Patriots sort 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:51.440 of emerging from that? I remember Bill Belichick having a 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:53.760 huge meet and the players talked about this at the time. 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.320 They had a meeting and they got to the bottom 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.240 of it and they figured out what they were going 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:02.679 to do as a team. Correct. I thought Bill Belichick 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.120 showed incredible leadership at the time. And I remember thinking 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:10.600 that at the time, it's a very difficult landscape to navigate, 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:14.479 you know, sixty something year old white guy trying to 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:16.479 deal with a powder keg here, and I thought he 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.400 definitely handled it. We didn't get any of that. We 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.320 didn't get any of that here. I would have liked 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.920 to have heard mccordy and Slatter talk about the aftermath 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.440 and how they moved on from that. We didn't get it. Mike. 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.159 I want to ask you a question. I thought, as 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:32.680 we move off of the politics in Trump to this 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:38.440 episode really sort of crystallizes where the Belichick Brady relationship 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:43.200 started to go south. And I thought Tom Curran really 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:46.640 did a nice job of providing insight. I think we 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:51.000 all remember that Tom Curran was as part of Camp 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:54.360 Brady and he had he was reporting that down the stretch, 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:58.599 and I think he lended a very credible was a 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.320 credible source in this to kind of detail how things 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:06.520 had just changed. As his sister said, Tom had changed. 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:08.600 Yeah, I mean I thought, you know, Tom was great 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:10.400 throughout the series. I mean just you know, he's always 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.440 entertaining to listen to. But you know, I think what 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:15.560 I kind of came out wondering was how did they 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.920 keep it together past this seventeen season? Like, I think 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.960 that was what I was most surprised about, was just 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.360 how everything seemed to really be coming to a powder 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:27.880 keg that season, and that in my mind again, it's 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.240 like you kind of extract yourself from the viewing experience 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:32.760 and then you remind yourself they won the Super Bowl 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.000 the next year, and it seemed like things were as 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.440 bad as it could possibly be at that point. Certainly, 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.360 the introduction of Alex Guerrero kind of made chuckle, and 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.040 he was, you know, kind of a device to illustrate 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.760 some of Tom's evolution of what he needed for himself 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:51.000 to succeed. And you kind of understand Bill's point of 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:52.920 view as well on that, and you know, a little 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:54.360 bit of a quibble, I would say, and I think 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:56.040 that they landed like again, not to say land the 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:57.760 plane again, but I think that they came out at 0:07:57.760 --> 0:07:58.240 the end. 0:07:58.080 --> 0:07:59.040 A little bit better with this. 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.360 But I just think Bill Belichick was a little bit 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.840 more of a three D complicated person then. 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:04.560 They could have. 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:06.640 I think they could have hit that a tiny bit 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:09.080 better in this series of you know, there are moments 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.240 when he turns the charm on. There are moments when 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.760 you're like, this guy's cracking me up and I'm enjoying him. 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.080 I didn't see enough of that quite and I felt 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.920 like they kind of because of Bill's you know, kind 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:20.960 of press conference bill that he presented in this it 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.000 was all kind of left to Ernie Adams to give 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:24.360 you the only kind of real infilm. 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.840 Yeah, A good point, and I do think this episode, 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.400 episode nine, I do think gave a good illustration of 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:37.600 just how serious that the the sort of separation had become. 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.320 You know, Robert Craft is saying that, you know, he 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:43.120 felt that the you know, the tension with Bill, specifically 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.800 among Bill and Tom, and that I think Robert and 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:50.040 Alex Guerrero, you know, talking about how Bill had started 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.840 to sort of separate from that team first mentality that 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.240 he had always so famously had, and you know, and 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.320 as it goes through that, you know, you sort of 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.680 get to Okay, So now they're starting to work with Alex, 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.520 and now it's not just Tom, it's the receivers. And 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:05.920 it's not just Tom and the receivers, now it's Gronk. 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.959 And then they tell that story about sort of Belichick 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.640 lighting up Gronk about being too weak, that's why you're 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:16.079 getting thrown around on the field. And I thought as 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.600 much as there was sort of the anti Bill with 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:20.840 some of the players. I thought Amandola who came in 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:24.320 who had some incendiary things to say about Bill. He said, 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.360 you know, I can totally understand why you can't have 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:32.160 two trainers. You can't have different, you know, outside sources. 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:33.920 And this is a guy who was doing the TV 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:37.560 twelve stuff. A Mondola was tight with Edelman and Brady 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.480 and doing the band work, but he understood why it 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.320 angered Belichick. And I thought that offered at least some 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:44.280 semblance of balance. 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:48.240 And I thought Ernie helped hammer that point home too, 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.200 like you've got a whole strength and conditioning staff, you've 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:54.360 got a training staff for the team. You can't have 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.480 one guy go, you know, or twelve guys go run 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:57.280 off and do their own thing. 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.120 I really found Brady to be a sympathetic figure. And 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.600 I mean not that I didn't beforehand, but I think, 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.120 you know, just the way that he talked about the 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.000 difference that Alex Guerrero made for his body, It's like, 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:09.439 how can you argue with this? 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:10.000 You know? 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:11.320 And that was kind of the point they made in 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.360 the documentary as well. But to hear Brady explicitly say, 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.800 my elbow has heard me since high school and now 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.240 I don't have pain anymore? What like, what else do 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:21.599 you want to ask? And I think that kind of 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:23.840 illustrated the bare point of the series, which was that 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.120 it worked really well early on when Bill was a 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:29.120 task master and he was over Brady and he'd never 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:31.640 give him the credit, and it helped Brady ascend to 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:34.800 great heights. But later on, when he continued to kind 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.120 of take that approach with him, it started to push 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:39.400 Brady away. And I you know, you wonder could Bill 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:41.360 have done something different. It doesn't seem like in his 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.439 DNA to adjust his coaching that way. 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.480 I agree with you on the DNA part, but I 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:47.400 also want to go back to something that you said 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.520 off the air a little bit, and it was about 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:55.400 what Nancy said that Tom had changed right the video 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.160 in Tokyo. I mean, this was a This was not 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:01.320 the guy that we saw Pisode one with Dave NuGen. 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:02.720 Bigger than why doing. 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:07.280 Playing technobol okay, this was Capital T Tom, Capital B. Brady, 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:09.600 who is now one of the biggest stars in the planet. 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:13.959 And I think Tom Brady realized that. And why am 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:16.800 I being treated like the other fifty two guys here? 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:17.120 Right? 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.199 I'm Tom F and Brady. He didn't say that. I'm 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:21.840 saying that, you know, but I think we have to 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:23.520 realize that he changed as well. 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:25.720 And that's why I think what Mike said makes a 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.960 lot of sense. I think everybody acknowledges Nancy Brady, you know, 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:34.200 included that Tom had changed. Why couldn't Why couldn't Bill? Yeah, 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.599 you know, like Bill had to sort of remain like, No, 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:38.120 he didn't have to. We should have been able to. 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.360 It's part of listen, the guy is the greatest to 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:45.040 ever do what he has done right. Six titles speaks 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:49.240 for itself. But the best examples of coaching and leadership 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.040 are being able to adapt and adjust to your various 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.920 personnel and your various personalities. And I think in this 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.800 particular case, for whatever reason, he felt it was really 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:01.200 important to continue to treat him like Johnny Foxborough, like 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:02.400 you always had, and. 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:06.120 To continue to treat, you know, to at least outwardly 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.000 what he says he's doing what's best for the team. 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:10.840 Came one of the seminal moments in the entire dynasty, 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.000 and that's a benching of Malcolm Butler. I think there 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:19.160 was some pre release chatter that you were going to 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.720 find out definitively, We the viewer, we the fans are 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.320 going to find out definitively why he sat Paul, it 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:24.880 didn't happen. 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:28.840 You don't. You don't find that out. And there was 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.400 I wasn't surprised to hear nothing from Bill on the topic. 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:34.599 I wasn't surprised to hear nothing from Malcolm Butler on 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.640 the topic. And you didn't. Okay, what I was really 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:42.839 jarred by was I think the genuine nature that came 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.880 across when, like Devin mccordy has asked, he, I mean, 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.360 if he's lying, if he's covering up for something he 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:57.319 belongs on Broadway, I mean that performance he definitively tells you. 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:01.160 I have absolutely no idea why he didn't play, And 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:02.880 I don't know how anyone could watch that and not 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:03.440 believe them. 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.160 No, And that's the issue, right, that's you know, what 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.440 the whole thing was. And you know, for Robert to 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:10.800 come out and say I was told it was something 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:12.520 personal and then to you know. 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.400 Just draw that parallel of talk about. 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:16.960 Doing things that are right for the team and if 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.440 this was personal, this felt outside of that realm and 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:23.800 it felt more that that relationship was continue to, you know, 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:25.760 to get more and more friction built around it, and 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.360 that you know, seems like a huge thing. Then leading 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.240 into the next Super Bowl, where I think Robert said 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.800 I'm going to have my eye on him for super 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:33.720 Bowl fifty. 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.480 Three, which I thought was very strong words that I 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.720 don't think most people knew. I'm gonna have my eyes 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.360 on him. He tagged basically the lots and put that 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:46.160 on Coach Belichick. And so now you're going from seventeen 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.360 to eighteen. You know, you not in the series, but 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.720 you scrambled to keep Josh. You needed Josh McDaniels. Thank 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:57.520 God for the Patriots that he came back and left Indianapolis. 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:01.520 At the altar, there's a tremendous amount of tension heading 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.079 into this, and I think they made a point to say, 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:09.720 with everything going on, Robert Kraft, did that Bill maybe 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.640 convinced him that year that you could still win with 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:14.719 way that I think we all think that Bill likes 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:18.520 to win what with which is good defense, don't turn 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.880 the ball over. You can win that way, And they 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.120 rode that formula basically to winning that Super Bowl. 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.120 You're talking about eighteen now, yeah, yeah, I mean, just 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:27.640 real quick before that, I thought, you know, as you 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.040 led up to the seventeen super Bowl, you know, I 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.640 thought Robert definitively telling us that he told Bill, We're 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.200 not trading Tom Brady ever, right, So that leads to 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.840 the Garoppolo deal. In my mind, I think, you know, 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.920 it's it's left unsaid in the documentary, but I think, 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:45.480 you know, there was sort of a feeling that he 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.840 was kind of grieving a little bit without Garoppolo. I 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.400 think someone put it that way. And then, you know, 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.960 when you get down to the aftermath of the lost 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.520 super Bowl against Philly, and like I said, the players 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.400 and like I still I believe, like I belie that 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:02.920 Devin mccorty has no idea why Malcolm Butler didn't play. 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.640 I believe that, you know, Amidola saying, you know, as players, 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.640 we felt cheated a little bit. And then I thought, 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:14.320 Matt your point that Roberts said basically he was unnotice. 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:19.200 He was put on notice going into that eighteen season. Ultimately, 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.800 I think for the long term of the Patriots, it 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:27.400 was unfortunate the way the super Bowl game unfolded, Like 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.120 they scored forty points you know, in the playoff games 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:31.640 to get to the super Bowl. But the Super Bowl 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.800 itself they won thirteen to three. And what matt said 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.520 I think got validated is I think Robert looked at 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:39.320 it and says, well, he can still win his way. 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:41.640 I look back at it and said, well, they won 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.120 one game that way in the last five years, would 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:45.600 tell me that's not the way to try to win. 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:51.200 Mike, were you surprised to the extent of which Brady 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:55.440 admitted in Matthew Slater admitted that there wasn't a lot 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:57.720 of conversation going on between the head coach and the quarterback. 0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:59.240 No, and that was I think, you know, one of 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.440 the strengths of this, like I said, was really the 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.800 spotlight being put on this relationship and how much it 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.080 was devolving. You know, It's it's funny because I tend 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:10.400 to look at things just generally through the football lens, 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.040 and we never thought that the twenty eighteen twenty eighteen 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.640 team was that great, And even now it's like, how 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:18.760 did they pull this all together? And you could see 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.160 like the joylessness and you know, the highlights that they 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:25.080 were showing of touchdown nobody's really celebrating. And I'm thinking 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.920 back to the nine documentary of you know, Bill put 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.920 putting up video of guys making big plays and nobody 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:33.960 really celebrating, and here it is, and you know, usually 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:35.680 I feel like that's a death sentence for a team. 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.960 This isn't a team that has championship caliber, but they 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.280 were somehow, and it's just it shigned a whole new 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:43.760 light for me on that Super Bowl win, both from 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:45.160 how did they how were they able to pull up 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:46.920 probably you know, just to credit to Tom Brady and 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:49.080 you know, the Gronk and then the big plays that 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:53.000 were made, but also just how how are they able 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.560 to all work together and make that still happen? 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.960 Did you see joy in the aftermath of the AFC 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.120 Championship game against in the City Shure, That's the only 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.480 game that showed by the way, the eighteen season was the. 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:05.359 ACT champions and that is the only game that I 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.720 thought that they showed genuine joy, you know, obviously until 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.600 the Super Bowl. Yeah, I did. But I also thought 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:14.760 it was really interesting the way they said, like we 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.720 leave off nine with Robert Kraft putting Bill on notice. 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.560 You opened ten with Bill understanding that and Bill making 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.840 some concessions, you know. Alex Guerrero was back, he was 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.760 allowed back in the facility and whatnot, and some of 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.600 those things that happened but really stood out to me. 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:35.040 And you mentioned this off air too, matt was Bill 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.720 and Tom were almost like not speaking, and it had 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.160 become Matthew Slater's job to sort of. 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:42.800 Didn't want it. 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:45.040 He didn't want it. 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:46.919 Mike didn't sound like he wanted it. 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.520 And that to me was we're so used to We're 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:51.520 just you know, Matthew Slater just retired, but he has 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.000 been the spokesperson for this team for so long and 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.119 keeping everybody in line. And to hear him kind of 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:59.159 going to that side of the fence and really opening 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.560 up about what was going going on, it was it 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:02.320 was jarring to me. 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:03.000 It really was. 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.439 You've never heard Matthew Slater kind of be critical of 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:07.720 Bill Belichick of what was going on in the locker room. 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.280 He's always trying to bring people together and keep it rolling. 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.200 So to me, some of those moments from Slater were 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:14.560 the standout moments of the series. 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:18.120 Paul, I'm not surprised to hear Rob Gronkowski being critical. 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.920 I'm not surprised to hear Danny m and Doola being critical. 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.199 I think we knew that that was, you know, that 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.280 really aid at them. I was surprised the first time 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.360 I heard the Matthew Slater comments to hear from such 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.560 a respected guy who retired just a second ago. You know, 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.600 so he was still here when this was going on again, 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:37.040 some of these things making you know, what if Bill 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:39.399 was still the coach. I thought they were very honest. 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.240