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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Ozone Podcast, presented by five Star Credit

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Speaker 1: with Jaguars senior writer John Osan. Today's guest I'm looking

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Speaker 1: forward to because today's guest is a guy that Jaguars

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Speaker 1: fans have known for what. Tony Pauline helped me out

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Speaker 1: here fifteen years probably so probably longer. I think, Uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: big catchman. It's Tony Pauline of the Pro Football Network,

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Speaker 1: and yes, has been working at Jaguars dot com forever

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Speaker 1: back when Vic I think, uh, and you guys at

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Speaker 1: first used to just talk and then he brought you

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Speaker 1: onto the website. It's been a relationship ever since. We

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Speaker 1: appreciated the Jaguars. I used to all in the new

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Speaker 1: paper that went out. I think first they sold as

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Speaker 1: a subscription. Then it was in the Jackson Jacksonville Jaguar Union,

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Speaker 1: the Union Times or whatever they put it in there.

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Speaker 1: I used to do all all the draft stuff back

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Speaker 1: in the day. If my son was here, you'd say,

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Speaker 1: what's the paper? There? You go, you know, so that's it.

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Speaker 1: But yes, Vick started that, uh Jaguars dot com. For

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Speaker 1: people who don't know, Vick Keschman, my predecessor, started Jaguars

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Speaker 1: dot com. Essentially as a team newspaper for four or

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Speaker 1: five years. It transitioned over to Jaguars dot Com, and

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Speaker 1: Tony Pauline has been you know, in some capacity, talking

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Speaker 1: working with for a long long time. Take me through

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Speaker 1: this draft, Tony. I keep hearing we'll get to the

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Speaker 1: number one overall pick. That's a huge topic. I keep

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Speaker 1: hearing that it is a good draft at the top. Okay,

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Speaker 1: draft at the top, but then a really good draft

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Speaker 1: as you go further. Do you see it that way? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it depends on the position. You know, we are in

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Speaker 1: a quarterback craze time in the NFL, and when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the draft, you constantly see quarterbacks being overdraft

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Speaker 1: And a lot of people don't like this draft because

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Speaker 1: last year you had quarterbacks once you three this year

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Speaker 1: you probably shouldn't have a quarterback draft in the top fifteen.

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Speaker 1: But going back prior to Vick Heshman Jaguars report, there

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Speaker 1: was a time in the NFL draft where the impact

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Speaker 1: defensive player was the most covered a type of prospect

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Speaker 1: in the draft. That's what you have this ship Aidan Hutchinson,

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Speaker 1: maybe Cavon Thibodeaux, maybe David Jabu. You've got a couple

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Speaker 1: of the good corners at the at the top. So

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Speaker 1: it is a real good draft by NFL standards, but

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Speaker 1: people aren't don't see the sexiness, if you will, of

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Speaker 1: the draft because there's no quarterback at the top, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of crazy in my opinion. Right before we talked,

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Speaker 1: you talked with Ashlonewander the Jaguars, and she asked you

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Speaker 1: who they were gonna pick number one. Uh, your answer

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Speaker 1: was very interesting. I go over that again if you will,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about it more. Well, first of all,

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Speaker 1: it's to be determined. I mean with the draft is

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Speaker 1: still what two months away, and we're just starting the

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Speaker 1: combine workout so and the interview process and the medical

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Speaker 1: medical is gonna go in. But you know, you build

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Speaker 1: great or good football teams by drafting great or good

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Speaker 1: football players. If you constantly draft for need, what happens

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Speaker 1: is two or three years down the road, you can say, well,

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Speaker 1: we passed up on this guy. If you take an

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Speaker 1: offensive line and like an Evan Neil with the first

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Speaker 1: pick of the draft, and he can't play left tackle,

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Speaker 1: or he doesn't pan out, or Aidan Hutchinson turns into

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Speaker 1: an All Pro defensive type player, you're gonna say, well,

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Speaker 1: we missed on that pick. So I think when you're

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Speaker 1: a situation with the job watch granted they have to

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Speaker 1: protect Trevor Lawrence that you've got to get some weapons

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Speaker 1: around them, but you still are in a phase where

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Speaker 1: you've got to collect really good football players, and you've

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Speaker 1: got to collect the best football players, and Aidan Hutchinson,

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Speaker 1: Cavan Thibodet on my board, are much higher rated than

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Speaker 1: any of the offensive lineman. You're talking about something that

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Speaker 1: I've been writing about for the last couple of weeks,

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Speaker 1: and that I get questions all the time from fans

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Speaker 1: should they go offensive line or pass rush? And I

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Speaker 1: continue to say it, it's not as simple as talking

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Speaker 1: about the two positions. It's you've got to look at

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Speaker 1: the player this year's draft. You can't just draft position. Ideally.

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Speaker 1: I think if you had a left tackle that was

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Speaker 1: premier and rated over those guys, you'd probably saying something different.

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Speaker 1: But you're saying, look, you gotta look at the player

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Speaker 1: in this year's draft. Absolutely, and I agree with what

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Speaker 1: you said. There's no pure can't miss past protecting left

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Speaker 1: tackle at the top of this year's draft. Evan Neil

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Speaker 1: there are people like myself Will Field. Maybe he can

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Speaker 1: play left tackle, but he's probably better off on the

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Speaker 1: right side. There are some people in league who feel

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Speaker 1: he can play. He's better at guard, you know, a quantu.

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Speaker 1: When I watch him play, I think he can be

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Speaker 1: a dominant right tackle, a dominant guard. I have my

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Speaker 1: concerns about him at left tackle, you know, even later

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Speaker 1: later on if they I think in a perfect world,

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Speaker 1: the Jaguars could maybe trade down a few slots and

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Speaker 1: then you justify taking the offensive lineman if that's available

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Speaker 1: to them. I was gonna ask you about that because

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Speaker 1: it feels from listening to Trent Vaalky the other day,

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Speaker 1: they'd be very open to trading down. Um. The conventional

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Speaker 1: wisdom is without a quarterback there, it's gonna be tough

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Speaker 1: to do. What's Tony Pauline's wisdom on that. Let's see

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Speaker 1: what happens with with Kevan Thibodo. I posted a story

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Speaker 1: about him yesterday and there were some concerns about his

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Speaker 1: desire for football, his desire to be great. Situation that

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Speaker 1: you know, he feels like he's already made it rather

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Speaker 1: than working to take it. And if that was a

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Speaker 1: true as I'm hearing I got confirmation today that means

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Speaker 1: that Aidan Hutchinson is probably the standalone from your potentially

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Speaker 1: impact defensive players helps trade, which means that they're you know,

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Speaker 1: the supply and demand all of a sudden, it's more

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Speaker 1: demand than supply. There may be a greater market for team,

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Speaker 1: say like the Jets or somebody like that, who's been

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Speaker 1: searching for a pass rusher who want to move up

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Speaker 1: and by the same token. However, if that's true and

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Speaker 1: Hutchinson starts becoming that guy you want, maybe there's lessons

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Speaker 1: center for the Jaguards to trade down because you want

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Speaker 1: the guy that's always Yeah. Absolutely, I mean if if

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Speaker 1: he's that much of a camp miss guy, and I

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Speaker 1: think Aidan Hutchinson is probably the Sheriffs pink in this

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Speaker 1: year's draft. He's got the least amount of questions. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't have the highest upside, but it isn't a lot

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Speaker 1: of downside. You know what you're getting with him, You're

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Speaker 1: getting a guy who was a great defensive player and

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Speaker 1: outstanding pass rusher who was going to play a hundred

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Speaker 1: and ten percent in every snap. You know, he's sort

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Speaker 1: of the Jake Long, if you will, of the number

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Speaker 1: one picks, very safe, very dependable, you know what you're

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Speaker 1: getting with him. And yet my readers who asked me

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Speaker 1: questions more of them are concerned about Hutchinson and like him.

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Speaker 1: But I assume that's just because of the Georgia games

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Speaker 1: talking me through him a little bit. How concerned are

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Speaker 1: you about that? Because that's the top and number one,

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Speaker 1: you should never evaluate a player off of one single game.

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Speaker 1: I think number two, when you really watched that game,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't that It was as much that you know,

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Speaker 1: Georgia was able to contain Hutchinson, but they also game

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Speaker 1: planned around him. Georgia had a gate. If you watched

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Speaker 1: the game, they were going away from Hutchinson a lot,

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Speaker 1: so you didn't have the game people will expected or wanted.

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Speaker 1: You know, he didn't play the way he did against

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Speaker 1: Ohio State and Nicholas petit Frere when he ate him alive.

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Speaker 1: But the fact is that Georgia came into that game

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Speaker 1: with a plan to stay away from Aiden Hutchinson and

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Speaker 1: they implemented it very well. And you know, to clarify,

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Speaker 1: that's not just your opinion, that's things you're hearing from

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Speaker 1: the NFL people as well. Correct NFL people like this

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Speaker 1: guy and they feel like he is the safest pick,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people in the NFL do believe.

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Speaker 1: At the top of the draft you go for doubles

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Speaker 1: and triples, reving swaying for the home run because you

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Speaker 1: want to make sure that you use that pick and

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Speaker 1: that you get value from You don't want to miss.

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Speaker 1: When you are the Jaguars or a team like that,

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Speaker 1: you can't afford to miss. And you know, if if

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Speaker 1: they take the offensive lineman and he can't play left

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Speaker 1: tackle or he struggles, or even worse, he struggles playing

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Speaker 1: left tackle, you can't afford to miss. Um you mentioned

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Speaker 1: at the top. It depends on the position. How you

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Speaker 1: feel about this draft. Take me through the positions you

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Speaker 1: like in this draft. What are the strongest places? Offensive tackle?

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Speaker 1: Late in round one, through the second round through the

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Speaker 1: third round. A lot of talent, a lot of potential there.

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Speaker 1: Tight End. I don't think there's gonna be a tight

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Speaker 1: end draft in lat and round one you may get

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Speaker 1: one Day two literally through the fifth round. You can

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Speaker 1: get a real good tight end out of this draft.

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Speaker 1: You can get starting tight end. I believe in the

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Speaker 1: fourth round you can get a good number two tight

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Speaker 1: end in the fifth round. So those are two the

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Speaker 1: I think, hands down, uh, the strongest positions in the draft.

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Speaker 1: I'll ask you this because I respect your opinion on

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Speaker 1: the draft. I keep getting emails about why is Kyle

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Speaker 1: Hamilton's not a number one possibility? Uh? Is there any

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Speaker 1: way that happens? Is it is this that weird a

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Speaker 1: draft if that could happen? Or is Hutchinson too much

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Speaker 1: of a solid pick? You think, well, I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are a variety of opinions on Kyle Hamilton's Is he

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Speaker 1: gonna play safety in the NFL? Is he gonna be

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Speaker 1: a free safety? You look at his body type, I

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Speaker 1: think two or three years down the road, it's screams linebacker.

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Speaker 1: And you look at what's happening with the NFL, and

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Speaker 1: they're taking these large college safeties and they're moving them

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Speaker 1: to outside linebacker. That's number one. Number two. I just

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Speaker 1: don't know that his game translates all that well to

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Speaker 1: the next level. And I think a guy like a

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Speaker 1: Louis Scene in round two from Georgia, Qualm Brisker in

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Speaker 1: Day two, Jalen Petrie from Baylor, or better value there

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Speaker 1: than taking Hamilton's at the top of the draft, I

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Speaker 1: got you. Wide receiver for the Jaguars is going to

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Speaker 1: be a huge topic in this draft, huge topics in

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Speaker 1: free agency. It's obviously I need tell me about the

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Speaker 1: draft in terms of where you can get guys and

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Speaker 1: possibly is it possible to get a one one a

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Speaker 1: stud guy at number thirty three or do you have

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Speaker 1: to trade up to get it? Well, I think, first

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Speaker 1: of all, all all a couple of things. It's not a

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Speaker 1: real good receiver draft for a couple of reasons. We've

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Speaker 1: been really spoiled the past couple of years with great

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Speaker 1: receiver drafts, quality and quantity. And what happens is when

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Speaker 1: you have that sort of year after year with great drafts,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of underclassmen, and eventually it's going to

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Speaker 1: dilute the position because the sophomores and juniors that we're

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Speaker 1: gonna would be seniors and juniors in this year's draft

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Speaker 1: are already in the league. The stream doesn't run forever. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: So now, to answer your question, you can get a

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Speaker 1: good receiver, I believe at thirty or three. I don't

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Speaker 1: know that you're gonna get the real big guy. That's

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Speaker 1: people like a Johan Dotson, Penn State and my opinion

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Speaker 1: is probably the most complete receiver in this year's draft,

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go about five eleven. He may run

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Speaker 1: a low four fours, but when you watch the film,

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Speaker 1: he's the guy who gets it between the ears. He's

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Speaker 1: a guy that presents himself as a good vertical threat.

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Speaker 1: He wins out for the contested passes. He works well

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Speaker 1: with a mediocre quarterback at Penn State. Another guy who

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Speaker 1: may slip to them, who I absolutely love is Crystal

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Speaker 1: Lava of Ohio State, a true vertical threat, another complete receiver,

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Speaker 1: good route runner. You know everyone talks about the Traylon Berks,

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Speaker 1: the big guys. NFL wants guys that can run good routes,

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Speaker 1: that can separate through their routes, that we come free

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Speaker 1: of defenders. You can't consistently went out for the contestant

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Speaker 1: passes on Sunday because you're gonna get beaten up. Trail Um,

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Speaker 1: Crystal Lava, Johan Dots, and those are guys who do

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Speaker 1: it who I think will be around at the top

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Speaker 1: around two and be real good additions for a treviled Lawrence.

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Speaker 1: It sounds to me like you believe Jarra's have twelve

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Speaker 1: picks this year, it's throughout the course of the draft.

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Speaker 1: Not as many at the top as they had last year.

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Speaker 1: But this sounds like a decent year to have that

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Speaker 1: for a team that is trying to stop file talent.

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Speaker 1: It needs talent. Had a lot of different areas it is,

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Speaker 1: and here's why. If you remember last year, the n

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Speaker 1: c double A gave seniors another year or they give

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Speaker 1: everybody another year of additional oligibility. So what happened last

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Speaker 1: year's draft in the seventh round was not good. What

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Speaker 1: was happening was last year you had guys who were

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Speaker 1: undrafted free agents, the seventh rounders going in the fifth

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Speaker 1: and sixth round. So now you have this influx of

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Speaker 1: late round talents because of so many guys that played

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Speaker 1: two senior seasons. So what's gonna happen this year is

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have guys that are generally fourth and fifth

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Speaker 1: rounders end up as six and seventh rounders just because

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Speaker 1: of the the numbers game. You know, when you do your

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Speaker 1: draft board, you try and come up with players with

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Speaker 1: draftable grades. There's probably gonna be about three players with

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Speaker 1: draftable grades because of what happened last year. So perhaps

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Speaker 1: Tony not a coincidence that Trent Bulky traded completely out

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Speaker 1: of the seventh round last year to get four sixth

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Speaker 1: round picks this year or two seven. Maybe he saw

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Speaker 1: the you have to have four sight in the draft. Okay,

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Speaker 1: if there's a player that you don't absolutely love and

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Speaker 1: you can trade that pick to get an earlier pick

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Speaker 1: next year or more future pick, you absolutely have to

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Speaker 1: have that foresight. So I think that was a real

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Speaker 1: good move. Final thought, Uh, you watch the Jaguars from Afar,

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Speaker 1: the Doug Peterson higher, where do you sort of see

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Speaker 1: them going now? I mean in terms of the franchise,

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Speaker 1: Kuryl Lawrence the whole summer, you know, they wanted a

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Speaker 1: culture change, not just in the locker room, but throughout

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Speaker 1: the entire organization. I think Peterson brings that. You know,

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Speaker 1: the way he approaches the team, the game, game preparation,

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Speaker 1: what he expects from his players. You know you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have more athletic tackles. That's the way he did at Philadelphia.

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Speaker 1: He's a great developer of quarterbacks, which obviously is going

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Speaker 1: to be a need because you know, you want Trevor

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Speaker 1: Lawrence to develop into the player we all think he

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Speaker 1: can be. I think it was. It's a good move,

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Speaker 1: not just on the field, in the locker room, but

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Speaker 1: really up through the entire organization. It's a complete culture.

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Speaker 1: He's a professional. He's a true professional who has a

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Speaker 1: body of work and that's going to be a plus

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Speaker 1: for the organization. Tony, consistently since I've been doing this,

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Speaker 1: you're one of the best, most interesting people to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about this league. I appreciate you joining us

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Speaker 1: today and I look forward to talking to you in

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Speaker 1: the huge thanks for having me