1 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Nick Cage is in a Superman costume. It's not for Halloween, 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: and it's not just because he feels like it. It's 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: because in Cage is set to star in Superman Lives, 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: the first new live action Superman movie in ten years. 5 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: It's taken Warner Brothers, which owns DC Comics that long, 6 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: to find the right pairing of star and director to 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: bring one of their most valuable assets back to the screen. 8 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: Cage will star as the Man of Steel. Tim Burton, 9 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: who ushered in the modern era of comic book movies 10 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: in with Batman, will direct their Superman will be a 11 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: bit of an outcast, an alien from another planet who 12 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: doesn't quite fit in here, and everyone believes Cage is 13 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: perfect for the role. Cage looks great in the It's 14 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: crafted from rubber, like Michael Keaton's Batman costume, to give 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: more muscle definition to his already trim physique. His hair 16 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: is long and dyed black, reminiscent of Superman's mullet when 17 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: he came back from the dead in the comics. Back 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: In one version of the suit, led lights make it 19 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: light up like a screen at a rave. Cage looks 20 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: in the mirror and seems satisfied with what he sees. 21 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: He's always had an affinity for Superman, for someone who 22 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 1: tried to conduct himself with dignity and tried to act 23 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: with a moral compass. He just spent a hundred and 24 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars on Action Comics number one, and it's 25 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: easy to think he did it in part to feel 26 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: a connection with the mythology. Cage has often spoken about 27 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: having talisman, physical objects that can help him get a 28 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: better feel for a role. What could get him in 29 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: tune with playing Superman more than possessing the cultural artifact 30 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: of where it all began. In fact, he bought two copies, 31 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: the one in terrific condition that was stolen and a 32 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: second one that wasn't quite as well preserved. Some collectors 33 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: call this an under copy. It's sort of like settling 34 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: for the comic you want in an average condition until 35 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: the holy Grail comes along. The under copy is the 36 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: one Cage sold off in his massive public auction in 37 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: two thousand and two. Here's William Hughes, who brokered the sale. 38 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: I thought that one was a restored copy, so it 39 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: might have just been one that he had all along. 40 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: And then he upgraded when he had the opportunity to 41 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: get the nice, high grade copy. That's a frequent occurrence 42 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: in the hobby where you know the higher end buyers, 43 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: they have a lasser copy and in the upgrade when 44 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: the opportunity arises. But there are bumpy times ahead. For 45 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 1: one thing, Cages stand in. A man named Marco Kyus 46 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: didn't have as much luck donning the iconic suit as 47 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: Cage did. I went in for a costume fitting. Unfortunately, 48 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: at that point I had gained a lot of weight, 49 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: probably twenty five pounds heavier than Nick, and I was 50 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: kind of bloated looking and said, I think during face 51 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: off around that time, and I went in for a 52 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: fitting and the costume were just staring at me and said, 53 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: are you like Alec Baldwin's standing that's Marco. I said no, 54 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: I'm in a cage is stand it. And he's like, oh, 55 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 1: how did you get that job? It's like you're really overweight. 56 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,399 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I know at the time you could 57 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: say these things, and I said, yeah, I know, I've 58 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: I've been getting a lot of weight on the film set. 59 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: That's when the costume designer had to get creative. The 60 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: funny part was they had to roll it up. The 61 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: rubber had to be rolled up over my fat and 62 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: then zip me up, so everything was kind of like 63 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: squished inside. It was so embarrassing. I was so out 64 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: of shape, and I was so unlikely to be Superman standing. 65 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: It would be a joke. It would be It would 66 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: be a farce. Farce is not a bad way to 67 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: describe Cage's Superman a movie project. The movie would soon 68 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: fall by the wayside, and Cage's best version of that comic, 69 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: which was procured to celebrate and fuel that role, would 70 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: be stolen. But you know all that. What you may 71 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: not know is this wouldn't be the only time Nicholas 72 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: Cage and Superman would be the subjects of a single 73 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 1: feature film. But instead of Cage playing Superman, someone would 74 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: be playing Cage, several actors actually, including a woman, and 75 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: the movie wouldn't be about Superman, but about the theft 76 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: of Cage's copy of Action Number One, a holy fictional, 77 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: very meta version of the story that was written by 78 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: two superstar Hollywood writers, filmed, edited, and never released. No 79 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: one's ever seen it. Even it's a rector couldn't get 80 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: a copy. The only thing more mysterious than the fate 81 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: of Cages Action number one is the fate of the 82 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: movie about Cages Action number one. Like that famous comic, 83 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: it disappeared without a trace. Today we're going to find 84 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: out why. For I Heart Radio, this is Stealing Superman. 85 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Danis Schwartz, and this is episode five 86 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: now a major motion picture. The war that comes to 87 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: me is that it was a trip, you know, to 88 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: play someone named Nick Cage and two version as of 89 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: someone named Nick Cage. It was terrifying. I mean I 90 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 1: had to say that I was actually very nervous to 91 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: go towards this. But I believe that if you're a something, 92 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: if as long as doesn't hurt you or anybody else, 93 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: you should go towards it and you might learn something. 94 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: You've probably heard of The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent. 95 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: It's a film that was released earlier this year and 96 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: started Nicolas Cage. As Nicolas Cage, the movie version of 97 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 1: Cage is at a crossroads in his career, much like 98 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: the real Cage, who fell off the Hollywood A list 99 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: about a decade ago and has been working steadily in 100 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: lower budget a fair The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent, which, 101 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: as fans of the whole brevity thing will call Massive Talent, 102 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: sees a fictionalized version of Cage having that same experience. 103 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: He's having an existential crisis and agrees to perform for 104 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: a drug dealer at the dealer's birthday party. Chaos ensues, 105 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: and so does a lot of tongue in cheek commentary 106 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: on Cage's career. He not only plays himself, but versions 107 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: of him, all at different times in his life. Face 108 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: Off Eric Cage, Wild at Heart Eric Cage. The movie 109 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: allowed Cage to seize control of his story back from 110 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: snarky Internet commenters who were very preoccupied with his grandiose 111 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: acting choices and some of his b movie roles. Critics 112 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: liked Massive Talent. It was quote smart, funny, and wildly creative, 113 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: according to one review, but it wasn't the first time 114 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: Cage had been approached to play himself in a movie. 115 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: The initial pitch was, we knew this thing had happened 116 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: where this copy of Action Comments number one went missing 117 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: from Cage's house, and like that was the starting premise, 118 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: and then the approach to it was like, well, what 119 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: if it was this sort of ocean's eleven style heist 120 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: by these sort of like friends who an't hanging around 121 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: a comic book shop where they find out he's got it, 122 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: and they consider themselves Oceans eleven and they're going to 123 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: break in and they're gonna get it and sell it 124 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: and get rich off of it, and they're all at 125 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: the that to Alex Fernie. Alex is a director primarily 126 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: of television comedies like Key and Peel and comedy Bang Bang. 127 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: A few years ago, a script landed on his desk. 128 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: It was titled Action Number One, and it was another 129 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: meta Cage story, but this one was about one very 130 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: specific incident in Cage's life, the theft of that rare 131 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: comic from his home, and then the approach to Cage 132 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 1: was obviously a very heightened version of him, where he 133 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: becomes this sort of like bad guy antagonist who's trying 134 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: to track them down and hires a hitman to kill 135 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: them because they stole his most beloved belonging. So it 136 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: really takes that first actual thing to happen, which memory 137 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: serves it was by large. He had a party and 138 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: the next day it was just gone, but he didn't 139 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: know how long it had been missing him. And turned 140 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: it into this sort of pisty thing where he's the 141 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: anti Garcia from Motions eleven. The script was written by 142 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:04,479 Speaker 1: Thomas Lennon and Robert Ben Grant, a screenwriting team responsible 143 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: for some major hits like The Night at the Museum 144 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: franchise with Ben Stiller. You've probably seen them too. In 145 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: addition to being co creators with Carrie Kenny Silver, Lennon 146 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: Grant were actors on Reno nine, one, the cult hit 147 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 1: on Comedy Central about annept Nevada Cops. Lennon played Lieutenant 148 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: Jim Dangle, Grant was Deputy Travis Jr. When the two 149 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: heard about Cage's comic book heist, their story Antenna went 150 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: off a famous actor suffering an art theft. Only it 151 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: was a rare comic and not just any actor, but 152 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: Nicholas Cage, avowed Superman fan and someone once slated to 153 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: play him. That was a movie premise, so Lennon and 154 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: Grant concocted a fictionalized version of the story. They didn't 155 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: need to adhere to facts. Instead, they tell you who 156 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: the thieves are right out the game. The script is 157 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: from their point of view. It's a group of comic 158 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: book collectors who get wind of Cagees priceless comic collection 159 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: and the easy access to Action number one. Oh yeah 160 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: yeah the second Ben and Tom mentioned me as like, 161 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: I absolutely know that story because it is so nuts, 162 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: and I feel like around that same time, when people 163 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: were like passing around the test footage of him a 164 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 1: superman and stuff, that was all a lot of discussion 165 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: of him and his comic books and stuff would come up, 166 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: and then this story was like so perfectly right down 167 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: the middle of that perception of him that I very 168 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: much remember it. I think part of what makes it 169 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: so interesting, beyond sort of the meanness of Nick Cage, 170 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: is that I think Cage is a incredibly sincere person 171 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: in a time when that is kind of rare. He 172 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: likes his things, he likes his weird cripts, he likes 173 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: his comic books. That's who he is and that's what 174 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: he likes. That feels more relatable than if it was 175 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: like someone stole a two hundred thousand dollar car from 176 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: Matt Damon. That wouldn't be interesting. But this is because 177 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: it's so specific both the man and his interests that 178 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: it just feels like another world right, Like it feels 179 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: like fiction it's not quite Ocean's Eleven. The thieves are 180 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: inept and kind of bumbling. The Cage of the movie 181 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: is well, he's even more bombastic than the parodies of 182 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: Cage floating around out There. He hires a hit woman 183 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: to find and assassinate his comic thieves while the team 184 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: tries to ransom the book back to Cage. Lennon and 185 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: Grant were working on the project as far back as 186 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: at the time. They hoped Nicholas Cage would agree to 187 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: play himself a very exaggerated, very murdering version of himself, 188 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: and Cage thought about it. He danced around the project 189 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: wondering if parodying his out there persona was a good 190 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: idea or not. When I came on board. Basically, they 191 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: had spent a while chasing Cage trying to get to 192 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: do it, and he was thinking about and kind of 193 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: like going back and forth. This really isn't as ludicrous 194 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: as it may sound. A while back, there was a 195 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: script floating around titled Chad Schmidt, about a struggling actor 196 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: who bears an uncanny resemblance to Brad Pitt. Chad is 197 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: forced to watch as his doppelganger, who is portrayed as 198 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: a buffoon trips into fame while poor Chad is relegated 199 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: to never was status. Brad Pitt was interested in playing 200 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 1: Chad Schmidt, as well as the script's doof as version 201 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 1: of himself, but when they couldn't settle on a director, 202 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: it fell by the wayside. Still being John Malkovich, playing 203 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: yourself can work, but not for Cage. After circling action 204 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: number one, he decided he didn't want to play an 205 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: exaggerated version. For a minute, there was talk of Jason 206 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: Statham being involved. Whether he was going to play Cage 207 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: or one of the thieves was unclear, but that also 208 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: wound up not happening. That left the production with no 209 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: choice but to get inventive. By this point it was 210 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: under the banner of Awesomeness Entertainment, a production company that 211 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: since had phenomenal success with the Netflix franchise To All 212 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: the Boys I've Loved Before. Awesomeness recruited Fernie to direct 213 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: the script. All they needed to do was cast someone 214 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 1: to be Nicholas Cage, but that's not easy to do, 215 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: so I rewrote My rain Partners a little bit, and 216 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 1: then it kind of came on at that point to 217 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: direct it and to kind of figure out what we 218 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: going to do about the fact that this movie about 219 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 1: Nick Cage isn't going to have Nick Cage in it. 220 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: So if Cage didn't want to be Cage and no 221 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: other actor could step into his shoes, the filmmakers had 222 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: to devise another solution, and it would be an odd 223 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: acious one. There've been all this talk about like should 224 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: we just never see Cage? Should it be like a 225 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: Charlie's Angels thing, whereas only ever a voice on a thing, 226 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: you always see him from behind stuff. And I didn't 227 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: want to do that at all because that felt to 228 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: me like a cheap or like that felt like that 229 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: would be obvious that we couldn't do the thing that 230 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: we wanted to do, which was a Nick Cage. And 231 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: so then I was like, well, if it's weirder and 232 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: if it's purposeful and we see these scenes where Nick 233 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: Cage does show up but it's always a different actor, 234 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: that's something we can kind of lean into. The Responsibility 235 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: of playing Cage wouldn't fall on one person's shoulders. Four 236 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: of them could share the unbearable weight. It was also 237 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: a decision that broadcasts the film's intentions. This wasn't going 238 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: to be a gritty true crime tale. It was going 239 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: to be light on its feet, fun and hopefully funny. 240 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: If we've got the other way, I think we would 241 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: have pulled out of most of his scenes and just 242 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: had there be some sort of standing for him, who 243 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: isn't him, who works for him or someth thing. But 244 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: because we did that, we only kind of worked these 245 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: scenes in, and then that kind of impacted when Cage 246 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: shows up in the script, because we wanted to kind 247 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: of space out these different comedy folks who play him 248 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: coming in. But it also gave us ability to have 249 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: the fictional Nick Cage character show up throughout in a 250 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: way that didn't feel like, yeah, they're really avoiding the 251 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: fact that the person the movie is about isn't in 252 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: the movie. According to Alex, Cage was okay with this plan. 253 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: He decided he didn't want to do it, but gave 254 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: his blessing to play the role of Cage. Producers cast 255 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: for people that actors who play him are Rob Hubil 256 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: and Missy Pyle and the Uncle and Rob Cordrey. The 257 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: actors would play Cage in different scenes when the script 258 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: called for Cage to make an appearance to play the 259 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: comic book Thieves. Jimmy Tetro, Mike Castle, and Haley Magnus 260 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: were cast. Tetro is probably best known now for his 261 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: role on the ABC sitcom Home Economics. In the movie, 262 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: Tetro's character, Brian In is a stereo installer who gets 263 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: into cages home and notices the action number one. He 264 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: convinces his friends to break in and grab the comic, 265 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: which is just sitting on a coffee table. Alex started 266 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: shooting the movie in Vancouver in the fall of and no, 267 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: Vancouver wasn't intended to be a stand in for Los Angeles. 268 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: That was where the production could get the most out 269 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: of its budget, So Cage the movie Cage had to relocate. 270 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: It was literally based on where we were able to 271 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: because it would have made sense to do New Orleans 272 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: the tax cuts, where we're like, okay, make it work 273 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: in Seattle or Vancouver. You can shoot in Vancouver. It's like, Okay, 274 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: it's never going to really make sense, but we can 275 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: just claim that he has a house here and we 276 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: just go from there. And it mostly went off without 277 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: a hitch. The leads had good chemistry. The script was funny, 278 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: and the conceit of Cage being played by different performers 279 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: was definitely going to get the movie some attention. But 280 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: it was important that while the movie would have fun 281 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: with Cage, it wouldn't make fun of Cage. Yeah, there 282 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: was that, and there was like right before we started 283 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: shooting too, there's a bunch of cold feat that like 284 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: this was too weird. And then I think once we 285 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 1: did it it where it talls like, oh, this is fun, 286 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: And I think that's the most fun stuff in the 287 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: movie because everyone knows that, everyone knows his thing and 288 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: it's great and everyone likes it, and I think that's 289 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: more fun, like more like I guess, celebratory. When the 290 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: Cage actors would come on set, Alex explained that he 291 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: wasn't looking for a Cage impression, more of a Cage essence. 292 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: All of the actors who played him, every one of 293 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: them was afraid of it when I first approached them 294 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: to do it, because it is such a weird ask 295 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: you when come to Vancouver for like a day and 296 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: play Nick Cage, and every one of them I had 297 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: to kind of walk through, like we're not looking for 298 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: a very authentic, accurate impression when I have been look 299 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: for impression and all we just want people to kind 300 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: of play what you think his ibe is, what his 301 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: energy is, in whatever way that means to you. And 302 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: all four of them are recognizably Nick Cage, but do 303 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: it in very different ways, which I think is very cool. 304 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: But they were all at first kind of like what 305 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: what is what is this? Like I'm not an impression 306 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: this to be, Like no, no, you don't have to be, 307 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 1: especially when it's like Missy Pyle coming up being like 308 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,479 Speaker 1: you brought me up to play this man for this 309 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: one scene, like yeah, okay, I'll talk you through it. 310 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: And then everyone got it and they were all very fun. 311 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: After shooting, Fernie edited the film. It was scored in 312 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: today's streaming landscape, it didn't seem like there would be 313 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: much of an issue finding a home. They all needed content, 314 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: especially during a pending pandemic when productions were being shut 315 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: down left and right. And then we kind of wrapped 316 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: up the post. I had hoped for some reshoots and 317 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: some other stuff that ended up falling apart. We probably 318 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: should have been the first time, but it right at 319 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: the end of that there was a conversation I had 320 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: had with some of the Awesomeness people, and they were 321 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: excited about it, and they're talking a where they're going 322 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: to do it. And then I never talked to people 323 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: a get because they all left the company, and I 324 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: don't think I ever had another conversation with someone at 325 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 1: the Dust Company. Again, it's like we sent it in 326 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: not even really acknowledgement of it, and then it just 327 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 1: like literally disappeared. And it went from being like, this 328 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: is really fun, we'll get this out there, We've got 329 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: some plans, we'll keep talking about it too, we're all quitting, 330 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: we're all going to start our own companies, and then 331 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: just dead silence for at this point now five years. 332 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: It's not as though Cage had ever had particularly good 333 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: luck with Superman movies. At the height of his box 334 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: office stature in the late nine nineties, he agreed to 335 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: play Superman, his first ever superhero role. He had and 336 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: would be connected to other comic book projects like Constantine, 337 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: which eventually went to Keanu Reeves. For the record, It's 338 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: pronounced Constantine in the comics and Hard Boiled, a pulp 339 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: comic written by comics legend Frank Miller, but Superman was 340 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: the Big One, a beautiful freak, Cage said of the character. 341 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: When Cage accepted the role in he was about to 342 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: kick off an incredible run of action movie hits Conner 343 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: Face Off the Rock. Those three movies combined made over 344 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: half a billion dollars. He had transformed himself from an 345 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: eccentric character actor who ate live cockroaches and vampire's kiss 346 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: to a more refined version of Sylvester Stallone and Don't 347 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: Forget This Superman was also an Oscar winner for leaving 348 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: Las Vegas. Cage's run in the nineties was something to 349 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: witness firsthand. It was an opportunity afforded to a select 350 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: group of people. One of them was Marco Kiras, Cage's 351 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: tenured stand in. Not a stunt devil. Marco doesn't do 352 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: any jumping. You can't set Marco on fire. But when 353 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: you need someone who looks like Cage to stand in 354 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: Cage's place while the lighting is being set up, that's 355 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: how you've called. For years. Marco had often been told 356 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: he looked a lot like Cage. Yes, yeah, often, but 357 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: different people, they said, Cage and Alec Baldin. Depends on 358 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: how heavy I was getting. Joe Montagna Cage. You know, 359 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: it just depended on my look, my attire. But Marco 360 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: didn't really want the job at first. After being in 361 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: Los Angeles for a few years and doing the waiter thing, 362 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: sure he recognized an opportunity. It was a chance to 363 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: double for Cage in the heist comedy Trapped in Paradise. 364 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: But the gig was in the winter in Toronto, the 365 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: coldest winter in years, and so I said no. I said, 366 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: thank you so much. I've never done the job, but 367 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: I decline, and they all got piste off at me 368 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: because it was the perfect fit for the Cage, and 369 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: they convinced me to do the job. So I actually 370 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: then took the job. He came with perks right off 371 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: the top. I didn't know any different, to tell you 372 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: the truth, but that's where it all happened. So I 373 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: was a real needed fit. I had all the union work, 374 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: and I had film experience, but not standing experience. So 375 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: to me it was a bit of a degrading position. 376 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: But I realized it was a really necessary position. So 377 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: when I started to work in this film, within a month, 378 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: he was very interested in me, and he thought I 379 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: was very good, and basically I followed the rules and 380 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: I did the right stuff, and he asked me to 381 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: go on tour with him as a standard, and I did. 382 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 1: I had nothing else going on in life. It was 383 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: very unique to be in a position where Nick Cage 384 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: was the biggest star in the world and I was 385 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: the biggest star standing in the world, and I didn't 386 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: really know it or appreciate it because we are working 387 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: so many films and in so many locations that our 388 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: hands were just constantly in the work. Whatever Marco might 389 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 1: have felt about the job before, it turned out to 390 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: be a pretty good deal. There were perks. Cage didn't 391 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: just buy stuff for himself, he bought stuff for everyone 392 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: around him. Yeah, it was. It was definitely travel because 393 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: obviously I did all those films and traveled, and they 394 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: put you up to the hotels to give you a 395 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 1: rent a car, to give you per deems on a contract. 396 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: It was a real perky package. A lot of gifts 397 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: from Cage. That guy showers you with gifts. The guy 398 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: is the biggest giver I had ever met in my life, 399 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: let alone in Hollywood. Oh my god. Everything anything from 400 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: designers suits to jackets to luggage to expensive bottles of wine. 401 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: And Scotch and right down to a Rolex watch. I 402 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: mean just endless gifts, just gives you never expect in 403 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: your lifetime in the position that I had, and it 404 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: wasn't only me, it was everybody, So we all benefited 405 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 1: because of his generosity. He's just a person who's beyond thankful. 406 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: So Cage and Marco was in a prime position in 407 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: the nineties as Warner Brothers was gearing up to make 408 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: a new Superman movie. The studio hadn't made one since 409 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: Superman four, The Quest for Peace, in which was Christopher 410 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 1: Reeve's last outing as the character. Since then, it had 411 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: been a parade of scripts and pitches, which ranged from 412 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: Superman rescuing the tiny bottle city of Candor to fighting Brainiac, 413 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: one of his most famous comic book villains. There was 414 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: even a brief announcement of a Superman five starring Reeve, 415 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: but it never got beyond the talking stages. Reeve suffered 416 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: from a catastrophic horse riding accident in that left him 417 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: paralyzed from the neck down. Warner had been focused on 418 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: their Batman franchise, which had been ushered to the screen 419 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: by a producer and Batman super fan named Michael Uslan. 420 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: He steered the production away from ideas like Bill Murray 421 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: as Batman and straight to Tim Burton. Burton had developed 422 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: a reputation for making movies about outcasts, like Beetlejuice and 423 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: Peewee's Big Adventure. Burton made Batman a huge hit nine, 424 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: and then he made a sequel in Batman Returns. A 425 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: third Batman movie, Batman Forever, was released in without Burton. 426 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: Warner obviously saw potential in their comic book Slate. The 427 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: next move was to bring back Superman. Now the Man 428 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: of Steel had been popping up. There was a syndicated 429 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: Superboy series in the early nine nineties which was devoted 430 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: to the character's college life. There was also Lewis and 431 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: Clark The New Adventures of Superman, an ABC hit about 432 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: a more domestic Clark Kent that starred Dean Kane and 433 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: Terry Hatcher. But Warner had always been apprehensive about investing 434 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,479 Speaker 1: a lot of money on a major new Superman movie. 435 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: You had to treat Superman with kid gloves. He was 436 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: more than just the first superhero. He was, in their eyes, 437 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: a commodity, and at the time, putting someone in tights 438 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: with sincerity was always caused for concern. Even Batman went 439 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: from a gritty Michael Keaton to Val Kilmer joking about 440 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: taking the Batmobile to drive throughs. Was anyone going to 441 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: buy the big Blue Boy Scout in the grunge era? 442 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: The involvement of Tim Burton and Nicholas Cage seemed to 443 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: convince them. Burton had imagined Batman as a dark hero, 444 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: absolving the character from the pop art incarnation of the 445 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: nineties sixties Adam West television series. If he could do 446 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 1: it for Batman, who was much maligned by then, he 447 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: could certainly do it for Superman. Burton was the director 448 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: Cage wanted. They agreed that Superman would be an outsider, 449 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: an element that hadn't really been explored on film. How 450 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: would you feel if you were the most powerful being 451 00:26:54,720 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: on the planet? Would you feel emboldened or ostracized? Age 452 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: was excited by this. He felt Superman was a way 453 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: of telling kids it was okay to be different. He 454 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: felt like a character this big and this well known 455 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: had a direct line to children, and he wanted a 456 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: positive message to be delivered to them. He invited Burton 457 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: over to his house for a brainstorming session while a 458 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: screenwriter named Wesley Strike took copious notes. Cage liked talking 459 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: about it. The word was you know, he really wanted 460 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: to do it. It was a different take on Superman. 461 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: He did ask me if I met the director, I 462 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: find you Tim Burton, And to my surprise, he didn't 463 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: know Tim Burton because he's also from Los Angeles. And 464 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,719 Speaker 1: I said, yes, I've met him and I've worked with him. 465 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: I said, you're gonna love this guy. He's just brilliant. Well, 466 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: it would be something different, it would still be a 467 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: major blockbuster. In Superman lives, Superman would have to deal 468 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 1: with both Lex Luthor and Brainiac, who developed a relentless 469 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: monster named Doomsday that can match the heroes Braun. After 470 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: seemingly dying, Superman is resurrected and goes on to conquer 471 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 1: his enemies and hopefully the box office. There would be 472 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: happy Meal, toys and sequels, and maybe even a team 473 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: up with Batman. Cage wasn't the only big attraction either. 474 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: Burton wanted Jim Carey to play Brainiac, Sandra Bullock was 475 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 1: considered for Lois Lane, and Chris Rock was cast as 476 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:31,959 Speaker 1: Jimmy Olsen. So Werner began writing checks a lot of checks. 477 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: Millions were spent on sets, on script ory rights, on costuming. 478 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: Location experts started scouting Pittsburgh to stand in from Metropolis. 479 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: Cage threw himself into the role. For one thing, he 480 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: bought a copy of Action Comics Number one, maybe to 481 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: have a physical connection with the history of the character. 482 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: It was one thing to steep yourself in comic book 483 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: mythology and another to become a part of it. But 484 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: that's what he was doing, becoming a new version of 485 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: a hero he had long admired. It was an intriguing 486 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: blend of Americana and cages surrealist approach to acting. Who 487 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: wouldn't want to see this film? Then it was time 488 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: for Cage to go in for a costume fitting. So 489 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: did his body devil Marco Kiris. We know what happened, 490 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: but Marco says he would have lost weight. Yeah, I 491 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: would have lost the weight. The footage is out there online. 492 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: You can probably find it, though of course we can't 493 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: indorse the unauthorized distribution of such material. But when you 494 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: see it, you immediately notice how wonder struck Cages by 495 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: being in the iconic costume. It's a little stiff. All 496 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: this molded rubber, and it needs professional cinematography, not the 497 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: camcorder someone is using to record the fitting. But how 498 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: the costume looks isn't really what's important. Cage is looking 499 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: at himself in a mirror, as though a boyhood dream 500 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: were coming true. He had come so far from childhood 501 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: when he once dressed as Batman for Halloween, but then 502 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: lost the cape, so he had to use a green 503 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: plaid blanket instead. You can imagine that little boy not 504 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: quite believing what's happening now, But that sense of wonder 505 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: couldn't last. Burton and Cage worked on the Superman movie 506 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: for roughly a year. The first sign of trouble came 507 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: when Warner realized Cage it was due to start shooting 508 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: a film called Snake Eyes for director Brian de Palma 509 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: in October. The start of that film overlapped with the 510 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: shooting schedule for Superman Lives, which turned into a territorial 511 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: tug of war for Cages services. Neither studio wanted to 512 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: back down, both believed they had the right to retain Cage. 513 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: When that was resolved, Superman Lives appeared ready for takeoff, 514 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: but as they often did, executives at Warner brothers started 515 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: to second guess their decision. Was Burton really the right 516 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: person to reinvent Superman. His esthetic worked beautifully for Batman, 517 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: who fit perfectly into Burton's dark and gothic visions, but 518 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: Superman was something else, entirely a bright, optimistic hero. They 519 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: started to worry Superman was about to get weird and expensive, 520 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: and Cage didn't exactly convince them otherwise. He wanted to 521 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: play Superman as an outcast, a lost soul. Calling him 522 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: a beautiful freak probably didn't make the Happy Meal people 523 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: too confident. Warner had to make a decision and quickly. 524 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: In the end, they decided to pull the plug on 525 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: Burton and Cage. A Warner executive named Bill Gerber had 526 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: to call Cages manager Jerry Harrington. The executive said it 527 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: was one of the most uncomfortable calls he had ever 528 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: had to make in the business. Superman lives was dead. 529 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: The only footage of Nicholas Cage as Superman would be 530 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: some costume tests shot on VHS. According to Marco, Cage 531 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: was devastated. I think it would have been great. I 532 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: think it was very disappointed that it didn't happen. I 533 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: think It's one of the things that he wanted to 534 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: do forever, and now he can't come back to because 535 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: he's a different age group and you know it's not 536 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: gonna work. Marco worked with Cage for a few more 537 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: years and then the two had a bit of a 538 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: falling out. Marco isn't too eager to discuss details, but 539 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: something happened in South Africa where Cage was shooting a film. 540 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: Some events happened while we were in South Africa, and 541 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: when we got back, he had already dismissed a couple 542 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: of key entourage members, and when we got back, three 543 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: or four of us were then let go at the 544 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: same time. So nobody really knows exactly what happened because 545 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't mentioned. It was only mentioned through his producer. 546 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: And it was a bitter moment than it just ended. 547 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: Not that we weren't tired and everybody was working and 548 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: overworked at this time, but it was kind of like 549 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: a blow to us that it all just kind of 550 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: ended with one phone call, and not just for me, 551 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: but for a few of us. Just one other thing, Marco, 552 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: did you no, no, no, I've never seen the comics 553 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: other than what was reported on the news or a 554 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: picture of them somewhere. I've never actually seen them, but 555 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: that's a that's a good spinner. Marco isn't sure who's 556 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: responsible for taking the books, but he thinks it's certainly 557 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: conceivable it was an inside job, and the idea of 558 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: that bums him out. Because Cage was a good boss. 559 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: They don't understand his generosity, they don't understand his commitment 560 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: to the people who work for him. So if anybody 561 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: steals from him, it's just you've crippled him. It's like 562 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: a little child. Why would you steal from somebody who 563 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,879 Speaker 1: gives you so much. Marco left the film industry and 564 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: went into real estate, where he's done well. Cage, meanwhile, 565 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't get a chance to play a comic book character 566 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: until two thousand seven, when he started as Johnny Blaze 567 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: in ghost Writer. There was one upside, though. Cage's Superman 568 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: deal was reported to be pay or play, meaning he 569 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: got paid even if the movie never got made. He 570 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: took home four million dollars all for trying on a suit. 571 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: At least he could buy some more comics. Burton got 572 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: paid too, so did the countless screenwriters who'd been working 573 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: on the movie since Warner had sunk tens of millions 574 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: into a new Superman film and had nothing to show 575 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: for it. So maybe a movie not about Superman but 576 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: about Cage being a fan of Superman would be different, right. 577 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: Alex Fernie shot the action number one movie in the 578 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: fall of and had it pretty much done in and 579 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,720 Speaker 1: while it probably wasn't due for a major theatrical rollout, 580 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: he was pretty sure it would wind up in his 581 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: Netflix queue. That had been kind of my impression. What 582 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: had been told to me was the idea was Awesomeness 583 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: the production company, I think, a good relationship like Netflix 584 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: and some other place, and be like, we'll probably gonna 585 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: make this for streaming. We'll see if there's a distributor 586 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 1: wants to do it, and maybe we'll do like some 587 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,439 Speaker 1: festivals and then go to streaming, which is great, slow 588 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:42,800 Speaker 1: budget thing. I actual think it could have found a 589 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: home there. People could have discovered it, but as the 590 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: months went by, no one at Awesomeness was reaching out 591 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: to offer a production update. Fernie asked about it but 592 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: never got a response. It was not very awesome. Literally, 593 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: no one knows or has any good answers. They just 594 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 1: kind of like went away because we tried to be like, well, 595 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: I bet we could get some fun like festivals to 596 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: do it feels like it would be fun for that. 597 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: Couldn't get that to happen. My guests as to what happened, 598 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: and this is one conjecture on my part, is around 599 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: that time Awesomeness also started. I feel like they kind 600 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: of like focused in on a certain demographic and a 601 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: certain approach that this movie didn't fit with, and they 602 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: didn't know what to do with it, so they just 603 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: kind of put it away. That's my best guess. Okay, 604 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: that kind of makes sense. Awesomeness moved in a different direction, 605 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: But that doesn't explain that for years Fernie couldn't even 606 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,720 Speaker 1: get a copy of his own film from the company. 607 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,800 Speaker 1: They seemed reluctant to acknowledge it even existed. I couldn't 608 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: even get a copy of it for myself to see, 609 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: which was insane. That's with like executive producers trying to 610 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: get it, that they couldn't get it. We probably shouldn't 611 00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: say if we were among those who caught a screen 612 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 1: of this elusive movie, but if we were, hypothetically we 613 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: suppose it might involve Cage being very irate that his 614 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: copy of Action Comics Number one has been stolen, and 615 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: unlike the real Cage, who was upset but somewhat resigned 616 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: to his fate, this version of Cage decides to enlist 617 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,280 Speaker 1: the services of an assassin to hunt down the thieves. 618 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: The movie, Cage appears in a few scenes. As we discussed, 619 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 1: every time he shows up, he's played by a different actor. 620 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: There's no in movie explanation for this. It's kind of 621 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 1: like that Bob Dylan movie where Dylan was played by 622 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: everyone from Cate Blanchette to Christian Bale. It's a little 623 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: surrealist as a nod to the very surrealist actor they're portraying. 624 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: The movie culminates in a showdown at a comic convention, 625 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: and even though the film isn't circulating, it still feels 626 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: in poor form to spoil it, so we'll just say 627 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: it's well, it's fine. It's not an affront to humanity. 628 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: It's a modestly budgeted movie that dips along. That's what's 629 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 1: so weird is there's no one in it who has 630 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: become problematic sense, and you would think that there would 631 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: be places it could go to at least make them 632 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: some money, but they would rather spare it. And again, also, 633 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: I know this sounds like it's like, oh, it's probably 634 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: so bad that they're bearing, because that's what I would assume. 635 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: I don't think it's perfect and I don't think I 636 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: hit a home run on it, but I think it, 637 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: by and large works, and that's one of the things 638 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: that surprises me is that it just disappeared. So we 639 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: reached out to Peter Principato, the owner of Artists First, 640 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: the management and production company that represents Alex along with 641 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: the writers Thomas Lennon and Robert ben Grant. Artists First 642 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: also helped produce the movie. Peter told us in an 643 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: email that he simply doesn't know that he wishes he 644 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 1: could answer of the question. He went on to say 645 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 1: that Awesomeness controls the movie and there's been some executive 646 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: turnover and as a result, the release of the film 647 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: has gotten completely lost. So we went to Awesomeness. We 648 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: reached out to a number of executives. The question was 649 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,879 Speaker 1: pretty straightforward. You made a movie and own the rights 650 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 1: to it, so why not release it. Most of them 651 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't respond, but one awesomeness executive did in an email, 652 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: he said, there were no plans for Action number one 653 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,800 Speaker 1: right now, Well, we kind of established that, but okay, 654 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,240 Speaker 1: so we started thinking about why else films get shelved. 655 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: In many cases it comes down to rights issues. With 656 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: Action Number one, there are two potentially problematic elements at play. 657 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: The first is that comic. Now, any movie character can 658 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: talk about Superman all they like, or Madonna or Star Wars, 659 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,720 Speaker 1: but showing it, the viewer gets fleeting glimpses of Action 660 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: Comics Number one in scenes from the movie, and that 661 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: comic and Superman himself are the intellectual property of Warner Brothers, 662 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: which owns DC Comics. His image belongs to them. So 663 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 1: could Warner have raised an issue? Alex doesn't think so. 664 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: It was the same thing because the props we use 665 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 1: were repros that DC at some point had put out. Obviously, 666 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,319 Speaker 1: we're waving around real, insanely expensive crisis comics, but they 667 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 1: were real reprose of that we didn't make them, and 668 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: that again is what have allowed legal to let us 669 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: do it. If you show Superman and you're not trying 670 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: to make it off brand Superman movie, it should be 671 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: fine unless it's not. That's their fear, their deep fear 672 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,879 Speaker 1: of being sued down the line. So in this case, 673 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,319 Speaker 1: they're like, we have a great case to be made 674 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: of their use because we're using the actual thing. We're 675 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 1: not disparaging anything, so we can just kind of for it. 676 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 1: But maybe that was the issue, and the second complication 677 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:11,399 Speaker 1: might be more relevant, that complication being Nicolas Cage. While 678 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: Cage did give his blessing, according to Alex, there are 679 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,880 Speaker 1: other issues at play depending on how he gave that permission. 680 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: Cage could have had second thoughts, and could have had 681 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,439 Speaker 1: second thoughts just as he was gearing up to play 682 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,720 Speaker 1: himself in the Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent. The idea 683 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 1: of two meta Nicolas Cage comedies may have started to 684 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 1: seem less appealing to the man who is now dealing 685 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,360 Speaker 1: with multiple fictional versions of himself. We got a pretty 686 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: good sense of all this from David Heinrich. David is 687 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,399 Speaker 1: an entertainment lawyer who deals with clearances or making sure 688 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 1: a movie or television production isn't shooting itself in the 689 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: foot by depicting a real person or someone else's intellectual property. 690 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: Here's David, so with a lot like this Warner Brothers 691 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 1: is tied to the DC universe. DC as an entity 692 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,360 Speaker 1: on their own have their own stake in Superman an 693 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: Action number one, Nicolas Cage his personal estate, and then 694 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,839 Speaker 1: any of the film companies that are working with him 695 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: currently and that need him to be a recognizable and 696 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 1: lovable name their marketing purposes. It's just the who's who 697 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: had any one of them should be a roadblock, and 698 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,279 Speaker 1: several of them in conjunction. If there were several of 699 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,399 Speaker 1: these issues altogether and I was representing Netflix or somebody, 700 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 1: my recommation were probably just to be like, not forget it, 701 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,280 Speaker 1: Like it's probably not worth it. People in the public 702 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,840 Speaker 1: eye have something known as publicity rights. It means that 703 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 1: taking someone like Cage and portraying them as, say, a 704 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: murderous psychopath in a movie could conceivably create some problems 705 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,720 Speaker 1: for filmmakers that wouldn't exist with a non fiction article 706 00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: or documentary or podcast. It also not a documentary, it's 707 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,760 Speaker 1: not a nonfiction film. This is a fictionalized account. Um, 708 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,800 Speaker 1: you have a broaderly way. The fact that Action Number 709 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 1: One was a modestly budgeted movie may have also played 710 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 1: a part. And if the movie is like a B 711 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,760 Speaker 1: minus comedy. Right, if you're not going to be making 712 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,279 Speaker 1: eight million, I don't know, I think we can, then 713 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 1: why do you want to have a six million dollar 714 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 1: legal fight? Because like when it comes to the accounting, 715 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if it's going to make more money 716 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 1: that it loses in court, like the opportunity cost on Well, 717 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,960 Speaker 1: would the seven million we spent on legal fees be 718 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,239 Speaker 1: better just getting Jason Momo to show up in the 719 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 1: next whatever, Right, So here's one possible outcome. Action number 720 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 1: one is written, shot and edited, and then Awesomeness goes 721 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: in search of a distributor, and the distributor realizes that 722 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,240 Speaker 1: the cost of ensuring this movie, given the potential legal 723 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 1: exposure or depicting a fictional and violent cage and an 724 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: illustration of Superman, simply isn't worth the trouble. So if 725 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: the film comes out and Nicholas Cages like a madman 726 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: ordering hit squads to kill somebody over a comic book, 727 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:20,880 Speaker 1: comedy is subjective, and accountants and legal teams are necessarily 728 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 1: pessimists who will always be thinking about the worst case scenario. 729 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: It's without like written sign off from Mr Cage saying yeah, no, 730 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 1: I'm totally fine with this. If it's going to be 731 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: decided by his authorized representatives, it's essentially our job to 732 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,399 Speaker 1: err on the side of caution, and so if that's 733 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,680 Speaker 1: what happens, it's it's reasonable to assume that they put 734 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: the brakes on. So why wouldn't Awesomeness figure all of 735 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,359 Speaker 1: this out before shooting? It could be that they took 736 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 1: a shoot first, ask questions later approach. According to David, 737 00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,959 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be the first time a major production put 738 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:03,319 Speaker 1: off clear into until the shooting was completed. Or it 739 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,319 Speaker 1: could be Cage wanted his unbearably massive talent to not 740 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: have a competing meta project. One kind of fake Cage 741 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 1: like Marco is okay, but this one maybe not. A 742 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 1: couple of years ago, Alex finally managed to get a 743 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,760 Speaker 1: copy of his movie. He may have held a super 744 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:29,919 Speaker 1: exclusive online screening for a handful of friends just so 745 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,880 Speaker 1: it could have some kind of audience. Every now and then, 746 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,280 Speaker 1: I still try to nudge it along and see if 747 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 1: they can do something with a view of you know, 748 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: I've done a hypothetical underground streaming of it once on 749 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,000 Speaker 1: Twitch for some people. It's one of those things I 750 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,879 Speaker 1: think is fun and silly, and I think if people 751 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,480 Speaker 1: have found it have been like, yeah, I'll watch this, 752 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,440 Speaker 1: this is fun, instead of sitting on a drive on 753 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,880 Speaker 1: some shelf like the lost Ark of the Covenant some 754 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,719 Speaker 1: Culver City office. Alex likes the movie he made. He's 755 00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 1: still in the dark about why other people can't see it, 756 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 1: and he's not her Cage has seen it either, but 757 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 1: he still has an idea for an end credit scene. 758 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:07,799 Speaker 1: There was one we couldn't even get close to, although 759 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 1: I think we should have tried harder. I desperately wanted 760 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,160 Speaker 1: there to be a button in the movie, and we 761 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: even left space for it in case it somehow came 762 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,920 Speaker 1: together at the very very end as a credit sting 763 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,879 Speaker 1: with one more knit Cage, And in my dream world, 764 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,600 Speaker 1: I really wanted it to be Travolta as a face 765 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,879 Speaker 1: off sort of thing at the end, and it just 766 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,120 Speaker 1: didn't come together. But I think that was a bit fun. 767 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 1: So maybe we'll never see a dramatic reenactment of the 768 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 1: day Nicolas Cage found his comics missing, or a comedic 769 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,320 Speaker 1: one for that matter. But as upset as Nicolas Cage 770 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 1: was when it happened, time seems to heal all comic 771 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 1: heist related wounds. There probably came a time when he 772 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,400 Speaker 1: accepted that his copy of the comic was gone forever. 773 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,360 Speaker 1: To write a movie scene where someone held the comic 774 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 1: aloft in their hand and announced to the world that 775 00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:02,840 Speaker 1: they had found it would seem unbelievable, except that's exactly 776 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 1: what happened. But before we get there, we need to 777 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,760 Speaker 1: take a step back to where all of this began, 778 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:15,280 Speaker 1: not with Cage, but with Superman and his creators, back 779 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: to a real crime that would leave a father day 780 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 1: and a son searching to make sense of it all 781 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: to understand what Nick Cage lost. We're going back to 782 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,080 Speaker 1: where it all started, where the man of Steele's co 783 00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 1: creator was robbed of his youth and changed pop culture forever. 784 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:39,799 Speaker 1: That's next on Stealing Superman. Oh sorry, almost forgot to ask, 785 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:53,759 Speaker 1: Alex I did not take the comic. Stealing Superman is 786 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:58,040 Speaker 1: written by Jake Rawson, sound design, scoring and mixing by 787 00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:03,600 Speaker 1: Josh Fisher, additional sting by Jonathan Washington, original music by 788 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:08,759 Speaker 1: Aaron Kaufman, mixing and mastering by Baheed Fraser. Research and 789 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:13,000 Speaker 1: fact checking by Jake Rawson and Austin Thompson, with production 790 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:18,000 Speaker 1: support from Lulu Philip show logo by Lucy Quintinia. Our 791 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:23,160 Speaker 1: executive producer is Jason English and I'm your host Danish Sports. 792 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,320 Speaker 1: If you're enjoying this show, check out Haileywood and Noble 793 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,160 Speaker 1: Blood and give us a nice review. We'll see you 794 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:30,719 Speaker 1: next week.