WEBVTT - From the Archives: Dustin Hoffman 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:05.800 Hey, it's Alec Baldwin here. Before we launch our next 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:10.040 season of Here's the Thing at iHeartRadio in January, I 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:13.600 thought I'd play some of my favorite shows from the archives. 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.560 I have attended the Turner Classic Movies Film Festival on 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:21.159 a few occasions. One of my favorite experiences there was 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.119 my chance to talk with Dustin Hoffman, one of the 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:28.760 most versatile, talented, and honored actors in movie history. Here's 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:33.800 my conversation with Dustin Hoffman. A couple of months back, 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:36.839 I had the great honor of talking with Dustin Hoffman 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.600 as part of the Turner Classic Movie Film Festival in Hollywood. 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.000 At the festival, we screened some of the greatest films 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.320 of all time, and much of Dustin Hoffman's work fits 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:51.960 that description. We selected Lenny, the nineteen seventy fourth film 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:56.160 in which Hoffman portrays the groundbreaking but troubled comedian and 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.760 social critic Lenny Bruce, who had died eight years prior 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:05.000 of a drug overdose while battling ongoing obscenity charges. We 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:07.680 decided to show this movie about Lenny Bruce at eleven 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:10.479 thirty in the morning. We're gonna show TUTSI at midnight 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:13.440 we thought we mix it up a bit here at 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:17.639 the TCM Festival and Lenny, shot in black and white 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:22.039 by director Bob Fosse, was nominated for six Oscars, including 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:25.920 Best Picture, Best Director for Fosse, Best Actress for Valerie 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.520 paren and Best Actor for Dustin Hoffman. 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:35.240 We're all the same schmuck, and it just cracks me 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.959 up that we try so desperately to be unique when 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:42.440 we're all the same cat Eisenhoward Kennedy, Johnson me you 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.840 every cat has got that one chickoulely buffed up his hand. 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:51.680 I'm kind of speechless whenever I see this film. I've 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.639 seen it a lot, which that doesn't come in handy 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:56.640 when you have to interview somebody after the film to 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.080 be man, dude speechless. But I don't want to. They 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.320 were this too much. But you know, this is a 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:06.040 movie actor who is unlike any other of the last 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.440 seventy five years. There's a lot of great film stars, 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:11.440 and there's a lot of great actors working especially through 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.440 the sixties and the seventies and the eighties and on 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:17.240 beyond that, and but few of them took the chances 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.239 to become a different person. So many times in films 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:27.680 and transform themselves physically, emotionally, psychologically, their voice, you know, 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:30.919 to inhabit a character. I don't think there's another actor 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:35.200 alive in the film business in the last several years 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.760 who transformed themselves again and again and then would play 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.679 something very close to themselves, their own speech, their own behavior, 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:46.079 perhaps their voice in All the President's Men and in 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:53.240 Kramer versus Kramer. But you know, please, but I just 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:57.040 want to say that this is a person I've admired 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.560 on the deepest level for a long long time, and 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:01.760 it's my great pleasure to ask you to join me 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:03.120 in welcoming Dustin Hoffmann. 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:40.400 Great your two kinds. Thank you. 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:46.200 When you make films like this, I mean you've worked 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.160 You've made so many great films, And I worked with 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:51.760 so many great directors. Was foss some of them? Was 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.640 at a goal for you too, to work with Fosse? No, 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.680 how was it to work with FOSSi tough? 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:01.160 Tough. 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:08.400 Bob was originally a choreographer, and choreographers don't have dancers 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:14.160 coming up to them saying, what's my motivation? They dances 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.120 do what they're told, you know. He tried to be 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.440 in a sense to collaborate, but it was tough for 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.080 him and it was tough for me. 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:23.280 We had a tough time. 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:25.440 Did he like to do a lot of takes? 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:27.120 Yes, both of us did. 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:31.159 The script I thought was problematic, so I wasn't that 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.120 anxious to do it. We went into rehearsal with the 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:47.120 principal actors with the wonderful Valerie Parine extraordinary performance and 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.880 was Valerie myself and you know Jan Minor, and I 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.360 think Stanley Beck. We're in New York in a room 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:58.320 and it's going rough the rehearsal, and after five days 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.680 we started a Monday. After five days, we're rehearsing routines, 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:06.280 rehearsing scenes, and on Friday, Bob Fossey says, we don't 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:07.400 have a movie. 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:11.200 We don't have a script. See on Monday. 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:15.320 Rehearsed two weeks or three weeks, and we thought it 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.640 was gonna be shelved. When Holman came back Monday and 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:23.120 he says, I solved it, and he interspersed it. He says, 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:27.039 I'm going to intersperse it with interviews because these scenes 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.280 there's no connective tissue to them. 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.880 They don't connect. So Stanley Beck, who was wonderful and 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.680 my manager Valerie. Thank you. 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.200 Stanley and I were close friends since we were beginning actors, 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.920 and Valerie Parene and Jan Minor are going. 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:47.240 I think that's all it is, isn't. 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:50.840 Those three are going to be interviewed throughout the movie 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.000 and He'll and I'll have an easier time of shooting it. 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:57.640 By the way, that's Bob Fossey asking the questions. 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:02.360 When you make a film like this or any of 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.719 the films you've made, I should say, do you have 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:08.760 any kind of unique relationship or a specific relationship with 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:13.560 the cinematographer Certise. This film was nominated for six Academy 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:15.880 Awards and in every one of the major categories you 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.279 would imagine Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, Best Actress, 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:23.560 Best Screenplay, and cinematography for Certiz, who made his reputation 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.599 shooting a lot of Clint Eastwood films for many, many years. 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:30.239 Bob Surtiz was one of the great cinematographers Robert Sertiz. 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:34.479 He was the cinematographer the graduate. Bruce is a son 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.800 a son, right, Yes, No, you work with. 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:41.400 The father and son Tess. So when you shoot a film, 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.320 do you have a specific relationship with cinematographers when you 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:45.920 make a film or. 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:51.200 No, no, I don't. I don't want to know where 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.600 the camera is. In terms of I do ask about 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.960 lenses sometimes if I want my hands to do something, 0:06:58.279 --> 0:06:59.320 and I say, where are you cutting? 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:00.480 Where's your bottom frame? 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.440 Because if it's here, also, i'd have to have my 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:05.080 hands up here to have it in the shot. 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:07.479 Other than that, I don't really want to know. 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.680 It's interesting that you say that, Alec, because one of 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:14.640 the things I objected to with Bob is that he 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.120 posed me, and when you see it, it's gorgeous, So 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:18.800 he was right. 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:19.560 It was wrong. 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:22.440 But you know, i'd be up there, and I work 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:26.920 so hard on these routines. I had never seen Lenny Bruce. 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.560 Bob had never seen Lenny Bruce. Mike Nichols, who I 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.840 talked to before I did it, because he'd done the graduate. 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:39.680 He and Elaine May were acting upstairs on Sunset Boulevard. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:40.920 Was it called the Duplex or. 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:45.240 Something nightclub, and Lenny Bruce was downstairs, and in between 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.800 their acts they would come downstairs and watch Bruce because 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:53.320 no comedian, they said, would do a whole show improvising. 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.520 You know, sometimes you do two minutes three minutes and 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:59.960 the rest is your stuff. But Lenny would come out 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.400 and not know what he was going to say. 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:03.040 Uh. 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:08.800 I think the only two comedians I know since Lenny 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:17.400 that do that one was robbed, one. 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:18.960 Was robbed and Williams. 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:24.080 And the other one was wonderful Billy Connolly, and neither 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:27.200 of them many times would just they would just go uh, 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.160 and that that takes a lot. 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:31.200 What was the question? 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.360 The sorry, we're talking about the cinematographers and. 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.520 Oh yeah, so he told me, and I worked hard. 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.480 I got the thirty three RPMs that Lenny had made 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:47.719 us what we called them then we didn't call them finals, 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:52.079 and I'd lay down on the floor and I would play. 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:54.520 I had three months. I had about three months, and 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:58.920 I did every you know, I wrote down, long hand, 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:03.200 every single line he said in all the records, and 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:05.760 he even the ones he did over, he would always 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:07.760 deviate and I would write them down, and then I 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.760 would go to Bob Fossey and I'd say, geez, I 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.240 liked what he did here because he used these sentences 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:17.160 or he used that, and I was promised. 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:20.199 And I think that's what I got so upset about. 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:22.400 That I would be able to shoot it. We were 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:24.199 going to shoot it, and I think that's what Bob wanted. 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.679 We were going to shoot it in different clubs in 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:30.640 Florida and with live audiences, and that's what I wanted. 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.040 I want to be able to really feel like I'm 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.760 doing it with the real audience. And he'll have whatever, 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.800 three or four cameras at once. He agreed, and that's 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.000 what we were supposed to do. And then it's probably 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.800 money wouldn't allow it. So it was quite laborious sometimes 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:48.240 to do these routines over and over again. And he 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.280 would tilt the camera, he would go He'd be like, 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:53.960 where you are and I'd be on a stage. He'd say, okay, 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:55.679 now look a little bit this way, and I look up, 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.000 now look down, Okay, now do the routine from here 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.800 to here. You know, kind of broke my heart because 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:03.320 I was trying to be the guy. 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:08.640 You know, Foster was a great, great artist. 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:13.160 And it's funny because I just saw a film recently 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:20.160 with that Alfred Hitchcock directed with Carrie Grant, and Carrie 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.160 Grant said he never worked with Hitchcock again after the 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:26.280 first picture because they didn't get along. Because Hitchcock didn't 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:27.119 like to collaborate. 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:29.680 But then they made up and they made more movies. 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.640 But you say that that Lenny Bruce was not someone 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:36.280 you had been a fan of or had a big 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.800 awareness of before you had no. 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:40.800 No, I just I was in New York. I just 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.839 never saw him. We couldn't have, you know, I mean, 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:49.640 before I was successful. We couldn't afford to go to nightclubs, 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:57.319 you know, they it was expensive. And I love the 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:01.720 jazz is what's so excorting? It was next jazz never dates. 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.000 Jazz is the same now as it was that. 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.520 It gave beautiful. 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:12.559 Square at oh and I had time. No, I didn't. 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:14.280 I had never seen him. I had never seen I 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.840 don't think any comedian. I didn't go to nightclubs much. 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.199 And I went out to LA because they sent someone 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:22.880 said to me, if you want to know Lenny Bruce, 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.400 you got to go see Sally mar his mother, who 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:28.840 was alive, and I went. 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:30.240 She was very friendly. 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.920 She introduced me to one of his best friends who 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.880 used to shoot up with and he in turn introduced 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.680 me to friends of Lenny. And I had a tape recorder, 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:42.520 you know, like a wall, and said, not a wall, 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:46.120 it's like a pearl tape recorder and I taped everything. 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.520 And she says, you want to go to Vegas because 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:52.040 they're all there, all his friends, Buddy Hackett, other people, 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.280 And I said, oh my god, yes, And I was 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:57.599 taking all these notes. It was the best time of 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.840 research I ever had. They all said the same thing, 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:06.720 except Buddy Hackett. They said, you know, you know Broadway, 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.040 Danny Rose, I think that William Allen, did you know? 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.480 And they used to get together the comedians when he 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:16.840 and these guys when they were you know certainly what 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.480 it was, I don't know, canters or And they said 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:24.120 they'd sit around do what they did in broad you know, 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:26.840 tell jokes. And they said, he look around and then 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.520 he was always very quiet, and suddenly he's gone because 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.320 he was a shy guy parent and he's gone, and 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.480 they look around and know where he is, and then 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.640 they find him in the kitchen talking to the people 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.720 that work in the kitchen to help. He loved to 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.319 just talk to the people and ask questions and find 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:49.480 out stuff. I think he originally this is the stuff 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.720 I had heard. They kind of say it in the movie. 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.200 The musicians were more important to him than the audience, 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.480 because when you do show after show after show. He 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:01.920 if you know the musicians, they're always sitting like that, 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:02.680 you know, because. 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.199 They racing with the most yes. 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:13.280 Of von Monroe and Uh and Lenny Uh. Lenny felt 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.520 that if he could crack up the musicians, then he 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:16.560 was getting somewhere. 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.800 I think he wanted to be in Hollywood. We wanted 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:20.440 to be an actor. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.680 Also, I had heard you shot this movie where we 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:24.400 shot a lot of it in Florida. 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:26.400 The nightclubs, the stage work. 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:28.000 Yeah, one nightclub. 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.840 Basically, I think the scene when we were sitting next 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:33.600 to each other, the scene up there where I'm in 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:40.880 my raincoat, and Yes, when I came back after my 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:44.480 three months, I had all this stuff to give Bob. 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:46.160 You got to put this in. You got to put 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.880 that in. You gotta put that. And the one thing 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:52.400 that he kept was that scene. And the reason he 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.840 did is when I was memorizing it was a you know, 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:57.880 this is before the kind of media. 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.480 You know, you had the cell phones and all that texting. 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.520 Some guy heard I was doing the movie and he 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:09.080 had been a student somewhere in Chicago, and he sent 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:13.440 me found out my business address in New York, and 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:17.800 he sent me a cassette and I played it word 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:23.080 for word. It's that scene. And I got pissed off 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.480 at Bob because when he shot the Master from upstairs, 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:29.920 right in the back, and when I saw it, I. 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.760 Said, you didn't cut in. You didn't cut in. He says, no. 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:37.200 So that's eight minutes, you know, being up there just. 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:42.760 In one shot, one shot, And again he was right. 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.160 It's nice of you to admit that, Actually, very generous. 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.240 I've met a lot of stuff forty years later. 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.040 But do you think do you think in your I mean, 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.560 obviously you're someone who when you I mean, I don't 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.280 believe anything I read. But I mean, but but you 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:05.440 know they don't me of all people, I really uh. 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.000 I try to minimize that in my life of like that, 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:11.200 but but the but but for you, obviously you know, 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.560 very fastidious and very very lots of questions and lots 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:17.440 of seeking and so forth, and the work you were doing, 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.000 and what do you think that comes from in terms 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:25.560 of all the films you've made from graduated on into 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:31.200 Cowboy and everything like that, where you just seem so 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:39.920 what's the word I mean you're so Jewish? 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:41.400 Is that it? 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:45.040 I'll convert If that's is that simple. I'm going to 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.000 convert tomorrow if that's what's going to get me into 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:52.600 your STATUSY of we're taking a break, so stay with us. 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:55.800 But the thing is, you just seem like you always 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.920 have something to prove a lot of people got where 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.480 you got, and they did you did, and you scored 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.680 with these performances and as the originality. But then you 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:06.800 keep going and you still feel like you have Did 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:08.600 you feel that way? You still have something to prove 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.280 again and again and again? What drove you? 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.760 I guess the same thing that still drives me. Kobe 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:21.440 Bryant was interviewed recently. It was before he, you know, 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.000 had to step out for the season because he hurt himself. 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.680 I saw the interview and I wrote it down. I 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:32.400 told my son Jake was basketball same question. You know, 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:36.560 all these ears of great basketball playing and you still 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.080 spend so much time practicing and playing whatever. 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:40.960 Why? 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:46.400 And he said, I guess for the challenge of every day. 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:49.000 That's a beautiful sentence. 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:59.080 I have only one slight personal connection to Lenny Bruce 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:00.600 and that and that is that Marvel Worth was a 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.399 dear friend. Yes, he died in nineteen ninety eight. He 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:06.520 produced the stuff he produced to Malcolm X with Spike, 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.640 he produced a lot of gad and he was Bruce's manager. 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.920 And Marvin Worthy was from Brooklyn and his wife Joe 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:13.520 and they were from Brooklyn. And he had the one 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:15.440 of the heaviest New York accents I'd. 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:17.080 Never heard in my life. His voice was down here. 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.040 We had a very heavy accent like this. And he 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.919 said to me, I'm gonna revive Letny on Broadway, and 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.600 I want you to do play Letty. I go, what 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.080 and he said, uh, he goes. I got a thousand 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:31.399 hours of tapes of Lenny. I got that Julian Barry. 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.640 We got so much material of Lenny's. He says, there's 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:34.920 so much stuff we can put in there. And I 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:36.640 don't worry about the it's I'll gonna look like a child. 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:39.800 And I go and he goes, He's Dusty, he called, 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:41.880 you're Dusty. Dusty's not the only one who could play 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.560 that part. By the way, he's not the only person 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.080 who could play that part. I'm like, ah, sure, And 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.000 he goes. Then he goes, he goes, and I go, 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:49.919 but what about the other thing? 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.639 He goes, what other thing? What about the other thing? Yes, 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:53.240 one other thing? 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.720 What other thing? What of the thing? I go, I'm 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:58.640 not Jewish. 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:03.040 He said, you're from Long Island, right, I said, yeah, 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:04.080 you go, Yeah, you're halfway there. 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:05.240 The rest of the will take care of himself. 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:10.960 Oh my bad. He would have been wonderful. 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.920 But when you did this film, how involved in your 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:17.639 films were you before? 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:18.120 Then? 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:20.080 Later in the casting? 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:23.600 Oh, I have to tell you. I'm glad you asked me. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:29.440 It's another example of Fosse's genius is that I met 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:30.240 Honey Bruce. 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:38.560 Uh and uh? Which came first? I met? 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:46.040 He cast Valerie Parene before he met Honey Bruce, and 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.879 then he met her, and then I met her, you know, 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.960 not together. And I couldn't believe Honey Bruce that Valerie 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:58.159 was the reincarnation of Honey Bruce. Literally, I mean it 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:00.560 could have been like mother and daughter. I was And 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:04.440 I said, Bob, you had to have met Honey Drew 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.719 before you cast Vatter. He says, no, it was just 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:12.080 this intuition. I had nothing to do with any of 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:16.720 the casting except all your films except Stanley. He was 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.680 nice enough to have Stanley in it for my manager 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:21.120 and all my films. 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:25.240 Yeah, I mean the graduate. 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:29.359 They've been trying for two years to cast it, and 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:34.719 Katherine Ross and myself were the last two to screen 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.000 test after two years. And I heard that they were 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.479 sitting in the screen room not particularly excited about our 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:43.840 screen test, and I says, well, either we go with 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.080 them or we don't do it. And it was that 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:51.639 kind of a that they've said that in interviews. I 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:56.680 think Larry Turman said that the producer and Midnight Cowboy 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:03.639 he cast, he didn't cast John Voyd. He cast someone 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:07.000 else and they wouldn't let him out of his contract. 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:13.960 And after that happened, I said, please see my friend 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:16.119 John Voyd. We weren't close friends, but we had been 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:17.119 off Broadway together. 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:18.200 And he says no. 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:20.639 John Sassinger said he read for it and he doesn't 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:23.680 have that Texas accent. He was from Yonkers. I says, yeah, 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:24.399 but he's an actor. 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:28.600 He can get it, you know. And John immediately went down. 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.760 To Texas forgot where with the tape recorder and spent 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:36.560 whatever time and came back and read for it and 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.400 he got the part. But he was the second choice. 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.920 Kate Jackson was the first choice for Kramer versus Kramer. 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:45.800 She was in Charlie's. 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:47.800 Angels, and they were saying, oh, the film will pay 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.440 back itself before we started shooting because they were so popular. 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:54.360 And then the studio wouldn't let her out. 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:57.919 So I kept telling them about this Meryl Streep. I 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:03.480 had heard about it, and they saw and they saw her. 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:05.679 So there's been a few hours suggested I've. 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:10.680 I've never demanded or you know, I don't. 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.040 I don't think that works actually, unless you're directing or producing. 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:16.720 Well, some people that have these approvals of casting and 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.840 they and they utilize that in whatever way. And then 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:21.560 those are the people who they just don't get involved. 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:23.160 They just like they just let that all take care 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.080 of itself and it doesn't really change what they do. 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.280 You know, Duval and Hackman and I knew each other 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:30.320 from the early days. 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:31.560 They're much older. 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:38.240 And and we never worked together. And suddenly I'm doing 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.440 this thing. A few years ago. We're shooting in New 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:43.440 Orleans a runaway jury and I have a I think 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:47.000 a supporting part, and Gene Hackman has a leading part. 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:51.440 And the director finds out that we knew each other. 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:53.720 We went to the passage in a playhouse together to 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:57.680 got kicked out after three months, they're not having any talent, 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:01.359 and oh my god, you guys know each other for 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.439 all this time, thirty years. Yeah, we got to do 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:07.040 a scene. So they wrote a scene. It's one of 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:08.840 the last scenes in the movie. Takes place in a 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:13.600 public bathroom. It's like an eight page dialogue scene. And afterwards, 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:15.080 it was the last thing I shot in the movie. 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:17.920 It's over, and Jane and I say, let's go out 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:21.520 and get drunk. And we go to an Italian restaurant 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:25.320 in New Orleans and we're getting drunk and Hacklan says, 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:28.040 were you scared? I said, I was so scared, man, 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:31.119 I thought I'm gonna forget my lines. He said he 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:33.640 felt exactly the same way. You know, because you are 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.280 what you are at the beginning, you don't really change. 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:39.920 We were unemployed actors for ten years, and he said 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.520 to me, and one of the great things ever said. 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:44.080 We were just close to each other. 0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:46.399 He says, do you feel the same way I do 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.520 after you finish a movie? And he probably made one 0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:53.760 hundred and twenty movies. I said, what do you feel 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:59.960 like he'll never work again? Yeah, of course, every single time. 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:00.760