1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: Hey, it's Alec Baldwin here. Before we launch our next 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: season of Here's the Thing at iHeartRadio in January, I 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: thought I'd play some of my favorite shows from the archives. 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: I have attended the Turner Classic Movies Film Festival on 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,159 Speaker 1: a few occasions. One of my favorite experiences there was 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: my chance to talk with Dustin Hoffman, one of the 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: most versatile, talented, and honored actors in movie history. Here's 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: my conversation with Dustin Hoffman. A couple of months back, 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: I had the great honor of talking with Dustin Hoffman 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: as part of the Turner Classic Movie Film Festival in Hollywood. 11 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: At the festival, we screened some of the greatest films 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: of all time, and much of Dustin Hoffman's work fits 13 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: that description. We selected Lenny, the nineteen seventy fourth film 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: in which Hoffman portrays the groundbreaking but troubled comedian and 15 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: social critic Lenny Bruce, who had died eight years prior 16 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: of a drug overdose while battling ongoing obscenity charges. We 17 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: decided to show this movie about Lenny Bruce at eleven 18 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 1: thirty in the morning. We're gonna show TUTSI at midnight 19 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: we thought we mix it up a bit here at 20 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,639 Speaker 1: the TCM Festival and Lenny, shot in black and white 21 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: by director Bob Fosse, was nominated for six Oscars, including 22 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: Best Picture, Best Director for Fosse, Best Actress for Valerie 23 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: paren and Best Actor for Dustin Hoffman. 24 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 2: We're all the same schmuck, and it just cracks me 25 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 2: up that we try so desperately to be unique when 26 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: we're all the same cat Eisenhoward Kennedy, Johnson me you 27 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: every cat has got that one chickoulely buffed up his hand. 28 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: I'm kind of speechless whenever I see this film. I've 29 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,639 Speaker 1: seen it a lot, which that doesn't come in handy 30 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: when you have to interview somebody after the film to 31 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: be man, dude speechless. But I don't want to. They 32 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: were this too much. But you know, this is a 33 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: movie actor who is unlike any other of the last 34 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: seventy five years. There's a lot of great film stars, 35 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of great actors working especially through 36 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: the sixties and the seventies and the eighties and on 37 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: beyond that, and but few of them took the chances 38 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 1: to become a different person. So many times in films 39 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: and transform themselves physically, emotionally, psychologically, their voice, you know, 40 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: to inhabit a character. I don't think there's another actor 41 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: alive in the film business in the last several years 42 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: who transformed themselves again and again and then would play 43 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 1: something very close to themselves, their own speech, their own behavior, 44 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: perhaps their voice in All the President's Men and in 45 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: Kramer versus Kramer. But you know, please, but I just 46 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: want to say that this is a person I've admired 47 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: on the deepest level for a long long time, and 48 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: it's my great pleasure to ask you to join me 49 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: in welcoming Dustin Hoffmann. 50 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 3: Great your two kinds. Thank you. 51 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: When you make films like this, I mean you've worked 52 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: You've made so many great films, And I worked with 53 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: so many great directors. Was foss some of them? Was 54 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: at a goal for you too, to work with Fosse? No, 55 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: how was it to work with FOSSi tough? 56 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 3: Tough. 57 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 4: Bob was originally a choreographer, and choreographers don't have dancers 58 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 4: coming up to them saying, what's my motivation? They dances 59 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 4: do what they're told, you know. He tried to be 60 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 4: in a sense to collaborate, but it was tough for 61 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 4: him and it was tough for me. 62 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 3: We had a tough time. 63 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: Did he like to do a lot of takes? 64 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 3: Yes, both of us did. 65 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 4: The script I thought was problematic, so I wasn't that 66 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 4: anxious to do it. We went into rehearsal with the 67 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 4: principal actors with the wonderful Valerie Parine extraordinary performance and 68 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 4: was Valerie myself and you know Jan Minor, and I 69 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 4: think Stanley Beck. We're in New York in a room 70 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 4: and it's going rough the rehearsal, and after five days 71 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 4: we started a Monday. After five days, we're rehearsing routines, 72 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 4: rehearsing scenes, and on Friday, Bob Fossey says, we don't 73 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 4: have a movie. 74 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 3: We don't have a script. See on Monday. 75 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 4: Rehearsed two weeks or three weeks, and we thought it 76 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 4: was gonna be shelved. When Holman came back Monday and 77 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 4: he says, I solved it, and he interspersed it. He says, 78 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 4: I'm going to intersperse it with interviews because these scenes 79 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 4: there's no connective tissue to them. 80 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 3: They don't connect. So Stanley Beck, who was wonderful and 81 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 3: my manager Valerie. Thank you. 82 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 4: Stanley and I were close friends since we were beginning actors, 83 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 4: and Valerie Parene and Jan Minor are going. 84 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 3: I think that's all it is, isn't. 85 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 4: Those three are going to be interviewed throughout the movie 86 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 4: and He'll and I'll have an easier time of shooting it. 87 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 4: By the way, that's Bob Fossey asking the questions. 88 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: When you make a film like this or any of 89 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: the films you've made, I should say, do you have 90 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: any kind of unique relationship or a specific relationship with 91 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: the cinematographer Certise. This film was nominated for six Academy 92 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: Awards and in every one of the major categories you 93 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: would imagine Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, Best Actress, 94 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: Best Screenplay, and cinematography for Certiz, who made his reputation 95 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: shooting a lot of Clint Eastwood films for many, many years. 96 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,239 Speaker 4: Bob Surtiz was one of the great cinematographers Robert Sertiz. 97 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 4: He was the cinematographer the graduate. Bruce is a son 98 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 4: a son, right, Yes, No, you work with. 99 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: The father and son Tess. So when you shoot a film, 100 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: do you have a specific relationship with cinematographers when you 101 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: make a film or. 102 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 4: No, no, I don't. I don't want to know where 103 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 4: the camera is. In terms of I do ask about 104 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 4: lenses sometimes if I want my hands to do something, 105 00:06:58,279 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 4: and I say, where are you cutting? 106 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 3: Where's your bottom frame? 107 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 4: Because if it's here, also, i'd have to have my 108 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 4: hands up here to have it in the shot. 109 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 3: Other than that, I don't really want to know. 110 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 4: It's interesting that you say that, Alec, because one of 111 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 4: the things I objected to with Bob is that he 112 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 4: posed me, and when you see it, it's gorgeous, So 113 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 4: he was right. 114 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: It was wrong. 115 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 4: But you know, i'd be up there, and I work 116 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 4: so hard on these routines. I had never seen Lenny Bruce. 117 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 4: Bob had never seen Lenny Bruce. Mike Nichols, who I 118 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 4: talked to before I did it, because he'd done the graduate. 119 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 4: He and Elaine May were acting upstairs on Sunset Boulevard. 120 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 3: Was it called the Duplex or. 121 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 4: Something nightclub, and Lenny Bruce was downstairs, and in between 122 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 4: their acts they would come downstairs and watch Bruce because 123 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 4: no comedian, they said, would do a whole show improvising. 124 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 4: You know, sometimes you do two minutes three minutes and 125 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 4: the rest is your stuff. But Lenny would come out 126 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 4: and not know what he was going to say. 127 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 5: Uh. 128 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 4: I think the only two comedians I know since Lenny 129 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 4: that do that one was robbed, one. 130 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 3: Was robbed and Williams. 131 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 4: And the other one was wonderful Billy Connolly, and neither 132 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 4: of them many times would just they would just go uh, 133 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 4: and that that takes a lot. 134 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 3: What was the question? 135 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: The sorry, we're talking about the cinematographers and. 136 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so he told me, and I worked hard. 137 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 4: I got the thirty three RPMs that Lenny had made 138 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,719 Speaker 4: us what we called them then we didn't call them finals, 139 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 4: and I'd lay down on the floor and I would play. 140 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 4: I had three months. I had about three months, and 141 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 4: I did every you know, I wrote down, long hand, 142 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 4: every single line he said in all the records, and 143 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 4: he even the ones he did over, he would always 144 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 4: deviate and I would write them down, and then I 145 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 4: would go to Bob Fossey and I'd say, geez, I 146 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 4: liked what he did here because he used these sentences 147 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 4: or he used that, and I was promised. 148 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 3: And I think that's what I got so upset about. 149 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 4: That I would be able to shoot it. We were 150 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 4: going to shoot it, and I think that's what Bob wanted. 151 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 4: We were going to shoot it in different clubs in 152 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 4: Florida and with live audiences, and that's what I wanted. 153 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 4: I want to be able to really feel like I'm 154 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 4: doing it with the real audience. And he'll have whatever, 155 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 4: three or four cameras at once. He agreed, and that's 156 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 4: what we were supposed to do. And then it's probably 157 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 4: money wouldn't allow it. So it was quite laborious sometimes 158 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 4: to do these routines over and over again. And he 159 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 4: would tilt the camera, he would go He'd be like, 160 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 4: where you are and I'd be on a stage. He'd say, okay, 161 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 4: now look a little bit this way, and I look up, 162 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 4: now look down, Okay, now do the routine from here 163 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 4: to here. You know, kind of broke my heart because 164 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 4: I was trying to be the guy. 165 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 3: You know, Foster was a great, great artist. 166 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 4: And it's funny because I just saw a film recently 167 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 4: with that Alfred Hitchcock directed with Carrie Grant, and Carrie 168 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 4: Grant said he never worked with Hitchcock again after the 169 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 4: first picture because they didn't get along. Because Hitchcock didn't 170 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:27,119 Speaker 4: like to collaborate. 171 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 3: But then they made up and they made more movies. 172 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: But you say that that Lenny Bruce was not someone 173 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: you had been a fan of or had a big 174 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: awareness of before you had no. 175 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 4: No, I just I was in New York. I just 176 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 4: never saw him. We couldn't have, you know, I mean, 177 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 4: before I was successful. We couldn't afford to go to nightclubs, 178 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 4: you know, they it was expensive. And I love the 179 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 4: jazz is what's so excorting? It was next jazz never dates. 180 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 4: Jazz is the same now as it was that. 181 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 3: It gave beautiful. 182 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 4: Square at oh and I had time. No, I didn't. 183 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 4: I had never seen him. I had never seen I 184 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 4: don't think any comedian. I didn't go to nightclubs much. 185 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 4: And I went out to LA because they sent someone 186 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 4: said to me, if you want to know Lenny Bruce, 187 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 4: you got to go see Sally mar his mother, who 188 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 4: was alive, and I went. 189 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 3: She was very friendly. 190 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 4: She introduced me to one of his best friends who 191 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 4: used to shoot up with and he in turn introduced 192 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 4: me to friends of Lenny. And I had a tape recorder, 193 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 4: you know, like a wall, and said, not a wall, 194 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 4: it's like a pearl tape recorder and I taped everything. 195 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 4: And she says, you want to go to Vegas because 196 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 4: they're all there, all his friends, Buddy Hackett, other people, 197 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 4: And I said, oh my god, yes, And I was 198 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,599 Speaker 4: taking all these notes. It was the best time of 199 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 4: research I ever had. They all said the same thing, 200 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 4: except Buddy Hackett. They said, you know, you know Broadway, 201 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 4: Danny Rose, I think that William Allen, did you know? 202 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 4: And they used to get together the comedians when he 203 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 4: and these guys when they were you know certainly what 204 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 4: it was, I don't know, canters or And they said 205 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 4: they'd sit around do what they did in broad you know, 206 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 4: tell jokes. And they said, he look around and then 207 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 4: he was always very quiet, and suddenly he's gone because 208 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 4: he was a shy guy parent and he's gone, and 209 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 4: they look around and know where he is, and then 210 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 4: they find him in the kitchen talking to the people 211 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 4: that work in the kitchen to help. He loved to 212 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 4: just talk to the people and ask questions and find 213 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 4: out stuff. I think he originally this is the stuff 214 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 4: I had heard. They kind of say it in the movie. 215 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 4: The musicians were more important to him than the audience, 216 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 4: because when you do show after show after show. He 217 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 4: if you know the musicians, they're always sitting like that, 218 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 4: you know, because. 219 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 3: They racing with the most yes. 220 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 4: Of von Monroe and Uh and Lenny Uh. Lenny felt 221 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 4: that if he could crack up the musicians, then he 222 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 4: was getting somewhere. 223 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 3: I think he wanted to be in Hollywood. We wanted 224 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 3: to be an actor. 225 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 4: Also, I had heard you shot this movie where we 226 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 4: shot a lot of it in Florida. 227 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: The nightclubs, the stage work. 228 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, one nightclub. 229 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 4: Basically, I think the scene when we were sitting next 230 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 4: to each other, the scene up there where I'm in 231 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 4: my raincoat, and Yes, when I came back after my 232 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 4: three months, I had all this stuff to give Bob. 233 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 4: You got to put this in. You got to put 234 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 4: that in. You gotta put that. And the one thing 235 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 4: that he kept was that scene. And the reason he 236 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 4: did is when I was memorizing it was a you know, 237 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 4: this is before the kind of media. 238 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 3: You know, you had the cell phones and all that texting. 239 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 4: Some guy heard I was doing the movie and he 240 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 4: had been a student somewhere in Chicago, and he sent 241 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 4: me found out my business address in New York, and 242 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 4: he sent me a cassette and I played it word 243 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 4: for word. It's that scene. And I got pissed off 244 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 4: at Bob because when he shot the Master from upstairs, 245 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 4: right in the back, and when I saw it, I. 246 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 3: Said, you didn't cut in. You didn't cut in. He says, no. 247 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 3: So that's eight minutes, you know, being up there just. 248 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 4: In one shot, one shot, And again he was right. 249 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: It's nice of you to admit that, Actually, very generous. 250 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 3: I've met a lot of stuff forty years later. 251 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: But do you think do you think in your I mean, 252 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: obviously you're someone who when you I mean, I don't 253 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: believe anything I read. But I mean, but but you 254 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: know they don't me of all people, I really uh. 255 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: I try to minimize that in my life of like that, 256 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: but but the but but for you, obviously you know, 257 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: very fastidious and very very lots of questions and lots 258 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: of seeking and so forth, and the work you were doing, 259 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: and what do you think that comes from in terms 260 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: of all the films you've made from graduated on into 261 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: Cowboy and everything like that, where you just seem so 262 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: what's the word I mean you're so Jewish? 263 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 3: Is that it? 264 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: I'll convert If that's is that simple. I'm going to 265 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: convert tomorrow if that's what's going to get me into 266 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: your STATUSY of we're taking a break, so stay with us. 267 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: But the thing is, you just seem like you always 268 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: have something to prove a lot of people got where 269 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: you got, and they did you did, and you scored 270 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: with these performances and as the originality. But then you 271 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: keep going and you still feel like you have Did 272 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: you feel that way? You still have something to prove 273 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: again and again and again? What drove you? 274 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 4: I guess the same thing that still drives me. Kobe 275 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 4: Bryant was interviewed recently. It was before he, you know, 276 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 4: had to step out for the season because he hurt himself. 277 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 4: I saw the interview and I wrote it down. I 278 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 4: told my son Jake was basketball same question. You know, 279 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 4: all these ears of great basketball playing and you still 280 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 4: spend so much time practicing and playing whatever. 281 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 3: Why? 282 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 4: And he said, I guess for the challenge of every day. 283 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 3: That's a beautiful sentence. 284 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: I have only one slight personal connection to Lenny Bruce 285 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: and that and that is that Marvel Worth was a 286 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: dear friend. Yes, he died in nineteen ninety eight. He 287 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: produced the stuff he produced to Malcolm X with Spike, 288 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: he produced a lot of gad and he was Bruce's manager. 289 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: And Marvin Worthy was from Brooklyn and his wife Joe 290 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: and they were from Brooklyn. And he had the one 291 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: of the heaviest New York accents I'd. 292 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 5: Never heard in my life. His voice was down here. 293 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 5: We had a very heavy accent like this. And he 294 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 5: said to me, I'm gonna revive Letny on Broadway, and 295 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 5: I want you to do play Letty. I go, what 296 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 5: and he said, uh, he goes. I got a thousand 297 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 5: hours of tapes of Lenny. I got that Julian Barry. 298 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 5: We got so much material of Lenny's. He says, there's 299 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 5: so much stuff we can put in there. And I 300 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 5: don't worry about the it's I'll gonna look like a child. 301 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 5: And I go and he goes, He's Dusty, he called, 302 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 5: you're Dusty. Dusty's not the only one who could play 303 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 5: that part. By the way, he's not the only person 304 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 5: who could play that part. I'm like, ah, sure, And 305 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 5: he goes. Then he goes, he goes, and I go, 306 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 5: but what about the other thing? 307 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: He goes, what other thing? What about the other thing? Yes, 308 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: one other thing? 309 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 3: What other thing? What of the thing? I go, I'm 310 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 3: not Jewish. 311 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 5: He said, you're from Long Island, right, I said, yeah, 312 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 5: you go, Yeah, you're halfway there. 313 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: The rest of the will take care of himself. 314 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 3: Oh my bad. He would have been wonderful. 315 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: But when you did this film, how involved in your 316 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: films were you before? 317 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 5: Then? 318 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: Later in the casting? 319 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 3: Oh, I have to tell you. I'm glad you asked me. 320 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 4: It's another example of Fosse's genius is that I met 321 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 4: Honey Bruce. 322 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 3: Uh and uh? Which came first? I met? 323 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 4: He cast Valerie Parene before he met Honey Bruce, and 324 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 4: then he met her, and then I met her, you know, 325 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 4: not together. And I couldn't believe Honey Bruce that Valerie 326 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 4: was the reincarnation of Honey Bruce. Literally, I mean it 327 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 4: could have been like mother and daughter. I was And 328 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 4: I said, Bob, you had to have met Honey Drew 329 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,719 Speaker 4: before you cast Vatter. He says, no, it was just 330 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 4: this intuition. I had nothing to do with any of 331 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 4: the casting except all your films except Stanley. He was 332 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 4: nice enough to have Stanley in it for my manager 333 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 4: and all my films. 334 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the graduate. 335 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 4: They've been trying for two years to cast it, and 336 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,719 Speaker 4: Katherine Ross and myself were the last two to screen 337 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 4: test after two years. And I heard that they were 338 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,479 Speaker 4: sitting in the screen room not particularly excited about our 339 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 4: screen test, and I says, well, either we go with 340 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 4: them or we don't do it. And it was that 341 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 4: kind of a that they've said that in interviews. I 342 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 4: think Larry Turman said that the producer and Midnight Cowboy 343 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 4: he cast, he didn't cast John Voyd. He cast someone 344 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 4: else and they wouldn't let him out of his contract. 345 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 4: And after that happened, I said, please see my friend 346 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 4: John Voyd. We weren't close friends, but we had been 347 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 4: off Broadway together. 348 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 3: And he says no. 349 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 4: John Sassinger said he read for it and he doesn't 350 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 4: have that Texas accent. He was from Yonkers. I says, yeah, 351 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 4: but he's an actor. 352 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 3: He can get it, you know. And John immediately went down. 353 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 4: To Texas forgot where with the tape recorder and spent 354 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 4: whatever time and came back and read for it and 355 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 4: he got the part. But he was the second choice. 356 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 4: Kate Jackson was the first choice for Kramer versus Kramer. 357 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 3: She was in Charlie's. 358 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 4: Angels, and they were saying, oh, the film will pay 359 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 4: back itself before we started shooting because they were so popular. 360 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 3: And then the studio wouldn't let her out. 361 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 4: So I kept telling them about this Meryl Streep. I 362 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 4: had heard about it, and they saw and they saw her. 363 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 4: So there's been a few hours suggested I've. 364 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 3: I've never demanded or you know, I don't. 365 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 4: I don't think that works actually, unless you're directing or producing. 366 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: Well, some people that have these approvals of casting and 367 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: they and they utilize that in whatever way. And then 368 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: those are the people who they just don't get involved. 369 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: They just like they just let that all take care 370 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: of itself and it doesn't really change what they do. 371 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 4: You know, Duval and Hackman and I knew each other 372 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 4: from the early days. 373 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 3: They're much older. 374 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 4: And and we never worked together. And suddenly I'm doing 375 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 4: this thing. A few years ago. We're shooting in New 376 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 4: Orleans a runaway jury and I have a I think 377 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 4: a supporting part, and Gene Hackman has a leading part. 378 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 4: And the director finds out that we knew each other. 379 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 4: We went to the passage in a playhouse together to 380 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 4: got kicked out after three months, they're not having any talent, 381 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 4: and oh my god, you guys know each other for 382 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 4: all this time, thirty years. Yeah, we got to do 383 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 4: a scene. So they wrote a scene. It's one of 384 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 4: the last scenes in the movie. Takes place in a 385 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 4: public bathroom. It's like an eight page dialogue scene. And afterwards, 386 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 4: it was the last thing I shot in the movie. 387 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 4: It's over, and Jane and I say, let's go out 388 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 4: and get drunk. And we go to an Italian restaurant 389 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 4: in New Orleans and we're getting drunk and Hacklan says, 390 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 4: were you scared? I said, I was so scared, man, 391 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 4: I thought I'm gonna forget my lines. He said he 392 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 4: felt exactly the same way. You know, because you are 393 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 4: what you are at the beginning, you don't really change. 394 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 4: We were unemployed actors for ten years, and he said 395 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 4: to me, and one of the great things ever said. 396 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 3: We were just close to each other. 397 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 4: He says, do you feel the same way I do 398 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 4: after you finish a movie? And he probably made one 399 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 4: hundred and twenty movies. I said, what do you feel 400 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 4: like he'll never work again? Yeah, of course, every single time. 401 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 3: That's it. 402 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: After five decades of consistently winning roles every actor dreams of. 403 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 1: Hoffman's fears of joblessness remain charming. His latest film, The 404 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: Program About Lance Armstrong, will be released later this year. 405 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: Listen to other episodes of Here's the Thing in our archives, 406 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,479 Speaker 1: like my conversation with Dick Cavitt, whose career as an 407 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: iconic talk show host includes a nineteen sixty eight TV 408 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: interview with hot young newcomer Dustin Hoffman, fresh off his 409 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: film The Graduate, the tape of which may or may 410 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: not exist. 411 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 6: There are several versions of what really happened. I just 412 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 6: remember being told one day, yeck, they're going to either 413 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 6: reuse the tapes or erase them or dump them. When 414 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 6: you say, what tapes that onnes do the ABC Show 415 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 6: and you can have them if you want to, for 416 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 6: sixty dollars each. And I thought, well, that's a ludicrous 417 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 6: amount of money. 418 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: But take a listen at Here's the Thing dot Org. 419 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 420 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: Thing Today, recorded live at the Egyptian Theater in Hollywood 421 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: as part of the Turner Classic Movie Film Festival. Dustin 422 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: Hoffman has been nominated for the Oscar for Best Actor 423 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: seven times. He's won the award twice. Actors strive for 424 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: depth and range in their work. Hoffman makes this appear effortless. 425 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: There's obviously roles you played like Kramer versus Crimer and 426 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: Old the President's Men, and you seem, I don't know 427 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: what word to use. It seems closer for who you are, 428 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: your voice and your appearance, and you're the psychologic something. 429 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: You're playing a contemporary character. You're not playing somebody with 430 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: some disability or what have you. It's not rain Man 431 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 1: or someone who damaged and broken like a cowboy and 432 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: so forth like that. But you've done both. There's a 433 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: there's a theatricality to the roles and a vividness to them, 434 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: and you're not afraid to do that. Where does that 435 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: come from? From being in the theater? 436 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean where are you from? 437 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: Lona? I told you I'm from Long Island. I'm from 438 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: fucking long Isle? Fuck is wrong with you? So? 439 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 3: How long? 440 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 4: First of all, I wish we lived in the same city. 441 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 4: How old were you when you started studying at twenty two? 442 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 4: And when they sent you out? They send you out 443 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 4: for certain kinds of parts. Young leading men. 444 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: The young guys who cried a lot or whatever. 445 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 4: I'm the short Jew and still with some acne. And 446 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 4: I come to New York in nineteen fifty eight to study, 447 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 4: and I always said leading men, young leading men, juvenile's 448 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 4: character juveniles, That's what I was designed as. 449 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 3: I couldn't get an agent. 450 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 4: And that's just code for Semitic, you know, because in 451 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 4: those days the leading man was white Anglo Saxon Protestant 452 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 4: and the ethnic person was a character juvenile or character 453 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 4: entre nous. It really was that way anyway. So I 454 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 4: went out a few times I could, you know, go 455 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 4: to open auditions, because if you're not equity then you 456 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 4: can't go to a regular audition. And you can't go 457 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 4: to a regular audition until you get your equity card. 458 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 4: You can't get an equity card until you get a job, 459 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 4: so you know, catch twenty two. So the few times 460 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 4: that I could go, it was the character a juvenile 461 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 4: and by Hooker Crook Nichols casts castin Ross and I 462 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 4: in a graduate and i'd been just starting to get 463 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 4: somewhere off Broadway doing you know, my own style of stuff. 464 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 4: Hunchback German, gay guy with a limb. You know, the 465 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 4: first thing that I got mentioned for in the in 466 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 4: the New York Times, and Nichols had heard about it, 467 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 4: and uh, and I got. 468 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 1: This, You're not kidding. You played a hunchback. 469 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 4: German homosexual with a limp Ronald Ribman. 470 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 3: What was the production Harry Noon and Night. And the 471 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 3: other actor was Joel Joel Gray. Joel Gray. 472 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 4: Sorry, Uh, yes, that was accurate. So he brings me 473 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 4: out to test me. And I didn't want to test. 474 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 4: I was doing, for the first time in my life, 475 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 4: doing well off Broadway. 476 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 3: I won an. 477 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 4: Award, and I thought, oh, I'll have a career, you know, 478 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 4: I'll do off Broadway. 479 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 3: And you know this as well as I do. Uh. 480 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 4: You know, if God has said, look Alec, you'll never 481 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 4: be in the movies, you'll never get leading roles. If 482 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 4: you're struggling for years, you won't even be on Broadway. 483 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 4: I will guarantee you a good part off Broadway for 484 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 4: the rest of your life. You'd sign, you would, maybe, 485 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 4: you know, And so would a hackman who moved from 486 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 4: a trip down you know, six flights and Duval who 487 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 4: worked midnight to eight in the post office. And I 488 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 4: was doing waiter jobs and a little acting teaching. 489 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 3: If I could. 490 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 4: And it's you know, it's never changed. There's actress here, 491 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 4: you know the pain of that. And here he is 492 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 4: now taking me out into la and testing and can 493 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 4: we do anything about his nose? I remember, and I mean, 494 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 4: well the guy is He said, you don't and he 495 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 4: couldn't believe it. I mean, he's the hottest director from 496 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 4: Neil Simon Broadway and also Virginia Wolf. 497 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 3: He did. 498 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 4: There was no hot a director at that moment in time. 499 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 4: He was Spielberg. And he said, what do you mean 500 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 4: you don't want to do this part? I said, I 501 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 4: read the book of mister Nichols. It was on the phone. 502 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 4: He said, il, I'm in New York doing a play. 503 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 4: I said, Benjamin Braddock in the book. He's five foot eleven, 504 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 4: blonde hair. I says, it's Redford. I said, you don't 505 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 4: want me, and he said no. He says, I would 506 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 4: like to test you. He says, you mean he's not Jewish. 507 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 4: I says, right, it's Benjamin Braddock. And he said something 508 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 4: I've never forgotten. 509 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 3: He says, well, maybe he's Jewish. 510 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 4: Inside years later he's from Berlin. 511 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 3: Mike. 512 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 4: He came here in the early thirties and he had 513 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 4: his own pain because he didn't have a lot of hair, 514 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 4: he had scarlet fever. And he not too long ago, 515 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,479 Speaker 4: just a few years ago, I read in the paper 516 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 4: that he never understood why he cast me, and then 517 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 4: he finally did through analysis or something, and he said, 518 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 4: because I was like an alter ego of him. He 519 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 4: felt like he was me in, you know, on the periphery, 520 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 4: you know, out of it, and he was casting himself 521 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 4: the funny looking guy. Do you know that that movie 522 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 4: was shot and I went back to New York to 523 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 4: collect unemployment. It was a lot because you know, it 524 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 4: was fifty bucks a week. It's getting the most he 525 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 4: could get. And they're cutting the movie again. I read 526 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 4: this in the newspapers and Lawrence Turman, I think it 527 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 4: was a New York Times a producer. 528 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 3: They're showing it all over the bel Air. 529 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 4: Circuit, every Hills, bell Air, brent On, the movie theaters they. 530 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 3: Have in the homes, and over and over again, Turman said. 531 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 4: Before it opened, and over and over again, people in 532 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 4: the industry would come up to Larry Wait, brilliant film 533 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 4: you almost had if you hadn't a misca, that's the lead. 534 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 3: And that was the perception, you know. 535 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: It's interesting because speaking of that casting thing, he and 536 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: I have had a little there was a whiff of this, 537 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: of this, of my appreciation of his career, and you 538 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: white of mine. I remember this. I doubt you remember this. 539 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: But I go to the old Westwood Marquis Hotel because 540 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: I get called to go an audition for the movie 541 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: Hero and Stephen Frears is the director, and the phone rings, 542 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: and this is back when I was making films in 543 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: the nineties and everything. And I'm lighting one off the 544 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: other and I'm gonna meet this guy, and I'm like, 545 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: I'm in my car. I'm like, god, maasin. They're gonna 546 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: go to the Westwood Marquis and they just lay out 547 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: the facts. They're like, you know, snap out of it. 548 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: You're gonna go to the Westwood Marque. You're gonna make 549 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: Stephen Freres and you're gonna have a meeting with Dustin 550 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: Hoff And I'm like, I love this guy. 551 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 3: I want to leave this moment with this guy. 552 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, like twenty minutes goes by 553 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: and Stephen Frears. If you know the movie Hero, where 554 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: someone commits this actor this case of mistaken identity, and 555 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: Andy Garcia played the other role, so there has to 556 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,479 Speaker 1: be this case of mistaken identity between the two actors. 557 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: Stephen Fier is literally twenty minutes in. I mean, my 558 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: dream is just taking flight, my wings. I'm flying over 559 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: the Westwood Malachis Hotel. I'm going to make my first 560 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: movie with Dustin efen Hoffmann, and Stephen Fierce looks at 561 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: me and goes, you know, I just realized that you 562 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: don't look anything like Dustin at all, and it was like, there, 563 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: I'm flying. Also he shoots my balloon, my crash onto 564 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: Westwood Boulevard and I'm dead on the highway there. I'll 565 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: never figure talk about. Yeah, I'm our dreams, our dreams, 566 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: how they how they escape us? 567 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 3: But now called the m right right right in west. 568 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: But the exactly when you do when you show up 569 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: and you work with Slushnger and you do Cowboy, do 570 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: you you come up with all that and you show 571 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: him did he help you? 572 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 3: Did you Cowboy? 573 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 4: Very briefly, he didn't want It's very similar to Frears 574 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 4: and You. He did not want to see me because 575 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 4: he had seen the Graduate and that's the only thing 576 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 4: he'd ever seen me in and he was an artist. 577 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 3: Give a shit that I was in a big hit 578 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 3: and suddenly an instant star. 579 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 4: He wanted the right person and he refused to see me. 580 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 4: And I heard about this, and I had read the book. 581 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 4: I thought the script was okay. 582 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 3: It was Waldo Salt. 583 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 4: He actually came in a room with John Voight and 584 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 4: I when we did it, and he had a wall 585 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 4: inside tape recorder. We improvised everything everything. This listener was 586 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 4: great at that, and he would go home waldoswell and 587 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 4: write the improvisations into the scenes that he'd already written. Anyway, 588 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 4: he wouldn't see me, and I said, please, you know, 589 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 4: I gotta see him. He's got to see me. And 590 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 4: he agreed. I know we have running out of times. 591 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 3: Go quick, forty second Street. 592 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,719 Speaker 4: What do they call those things where you go when 593 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 4: you put the quarter in? I can't remember the automat 594 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 4: the automat thank you, And I says the autumn, I'm 595 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 4: gonna direct the movie of him playing a car. 596 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: You all heard it, go ahead. 597 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 4: And I used to go there and we all did 598 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 4: you know, two three in the morning whatever, uh, and 599 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 4: get coffee or whatever, and it was all kind of 600 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 4: trance people there, and I said, I'll meet him in 601 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 4: the automat and I want to do it about one 602 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 4: or two in the morning, because you know, and I'll 603 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 4: dress accordingly, which is what I did it kind of. 604 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 3: Coat like I wore in that scene at raincoat. 605 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 4: And I didn't shave a few days and I greased 606 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 4: my hair. I was auditioning and I came in and 607 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 4: I just met him there, sat there, and he looked 608 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 4: at me, and he looked at you know, sparsely crowded, 609 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 4: you know, people around. 610 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 3: He says. 611 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: Oh. 612 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 3: He says, yes, I think you'll do quite well. So 613 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 3: the voice and. 614 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: All of it, you just throw that out there. You 615 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: come up with that. 616 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,479 Speaker 3: Oh well, yeah, you keep trying. 617 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: I mean, my friend, oh Daniel, my friend, oh Daniel, 618 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: you are two cons. Where do you find this? 619 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 3: You get desperate? But I didn't. I didn't. I that's 620 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 3: my bob. I wasn't desperate enough. 621 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 4: No, no, And uh, we're rehearsing and then a slessenger 622 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 4: has to shoot some exteriors before we start shooting principal 623 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 4: photography because he's got winter and he needed winter. So 624 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 4: John Voight and I go and he says, you don't 625 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 4: have to talk. I says, I don't have a character. 626 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 3: I don't have a voice, I said, I can't. I 627 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 3: barely have a walk. 628 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 4: No, we'll have the camera cross the street. You guys 629 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 4: just got a walk. We're not starting for a month, 630 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 4: but we just need the weather. 631 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 3: You know, there was smoke coming whatever. 632 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 4: It was okay, So John Boy and I will walking. 633 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 4: John Voyd and I knew each other for years. I 634 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 4: was the assistant director, which is like you know, sharpening 635 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 4: pencils in off Broadway when he was in View from 636 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 4: the Bridge with Bob Deval. He was brilliant and he 637 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 4: was up and coming star and and you know we 638 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 4: were competitive. The actors are always competitive. And uh, you know, 639 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 4: if you're walking down the street, you got a script, 640 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 4: you have a reading, or you did the read, you 641 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 4: see another actor coming out. 642 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 3: You've always put it behind your back, you know. 643 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 4: No, it's just something you know because you don't want 644 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 4: to the competition anyway. So we're across the street walking 645 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 4: and says, oh, you have to do I says, yeah, 646 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 4: but I'm supposed to cough. Were at that point in 647 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,399 Speaker 4: the movie where you know he's got you're gonna find 648 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 4: out the st B or whatever. 649 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 3: He says, yes, Sas says. 650 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 4: Oh, right, you do some coughing, do something not going, 651 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 4: but you don't have to talk. I said, okay, I'm 652 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 4: rehearsing out a panic, you know, trying on. 653 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 3: These these these limps or whatever. And I said, you 654 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 3: shouldn't be shooting. We got a month to oh, I 655 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 3: haven't found him yet. 656 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 4: And suddenly we're walking and we paused, and I'm trying 657 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:57,760 Speaker 4: to cough and I threw up, literally on John Voyd's 658 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 4: cowboy boots. And afterwards, susagers, I think we've got it. 659 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:04,800 Speaker 2: You do. 660 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 4: And John, because he's an actor and you know, or 661 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 4: competitive passenger told me later he went up to Clashen Journey. 662 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 3: He said, John, let me just ask you something. Is 663 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 3: he going to do that all throughout the whole thing? 664 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,359 Speaker 3: He says, because I'm not even in the scene. 665 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 1: If he does, well, let me just say this because obviously, 666 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I got another forty five questions I could ask, 667 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: but they do have a schedule here for the festival. 668 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,839 Speaker 1: But I do want to say, I mean, as as 669 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: sappy as this sounds, on behalf of everybody here, I 670 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,919 Speaker 1: want to say thank you to you, because I mean, 671 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: I really, from the bottom of my heart, from the 672 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: bottom of my heart. You are one of the greatest 673 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: movie actors that has ever lived. In the hastory is come. 674 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: You are one of the greatest act the actors ever 675 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: and you know so many great folks. Please help me 676 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 1: in fact that he doesn't happen everywhere. Dustin Hoffmann has 677 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,280 Speaker 1: gained some hard won wisdom during his career, and despite 678 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,839 Speaker 1: turning seventy eight this summer, he's embracing a very new 679 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: way to share it. He's teaching an acting class online. 680 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: The description reads, Dustin teaches you everything he wishes someone 681 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: had taught him. You can sign up at masterclass dot com. 682 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,840 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin. Thanks this week to Sean Cameron 683 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: and everyone at Turner Classic Movies. You're listening to Here's 684 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: the thing I'm going Where Sankei shin real Poor Rain. 685 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 3: Go in well suit, smart blow