Speaker 1: Episode four ninety one, How marketers use the same tactics
Speaker 1: as cults with doctor Marrah Einstein.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and live your life. Here your
Speaker 2: hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: my name is Jill, and today we are bringing you
Speaker 1: an episode that we are so excited for. This is
Speaker 1: the most excited I have been about recording an episode
Speaker 1: in a very long time, and I'm.
Speaker 3: So excited for you to hear it.
Speaker 4: Whenever we have an opportunity to bring on a guest,
Speaker 4: particularly in kind of a unique niche very interesting area,
Speaker 4: bringing a fresh perspective but with knowledge and resources and
Speaker 4: tools that will actually really help us and making good
Speaker 4: spending decisions, then yeah, of course we're going to be
Speaker 4: super excited. And that's exactly what doctor Marra is doing today.
Speaker 4: We've already recorded the interview, so we're now talking about
Speaker 4: the intro with the level of excitement that we know
Speaker 4: we should have because it's such a good conversation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you might recognize her. You might already know
Speaker 1: her if you watch the documentary. By now, The Shopping
Speaker 1: Conspiracy on Netflix. It's a documentary about over consumption marketing
Speaker 1: and its impact on society in the planet. So if
Speaker 1: you haven't watched it, I highly recommend it go check
Speaker 1: it out. But it does leave something to be desired
Speaker 1: at the end and in terms of what honestly it
Speaker 1: could have talked a lot more about the deceptive marketing,
Speaker 1: but also action steps on how to act upon what
Speaker 1: you're feeling now after watching it, which is what we
Speaker 1: always try to do on this show. But first, before
Speaker 1: we talk to doctor Mara, this episode is brought to
Speaker 1: you by being upfront. In today's episode, we are going
Speaker 1: to talk about deceptive marketing and advertising, and we're not
Speaker 1: going to shy away from the fact that this podcast
Speaker 1: that you are listening to right now is supported by advertising.
Speaker 1: We want to do our best to ensure the advertising
Speaker 1: is as relevant as possible. It is our goal in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five to curate that even more. But we
Speaker 1: want to continue to bring you our content for free,
Speaker 1: and because exposure does not pay the bills, we will
Speaker 1: continue to be supported by brand partnerships and advertising, but
Speaker 1: we want to ensure you that a we will do
Speaker 1: our best to make sure what we are talking about
Speaker 1: is most relevant to your needs, and that we equip
Speaker 1: you with the tools necessary to discern if advertising and
Speaker 1: marketing is something, if the products and services are something
Speaker 1: you need or not, or want or not what's best
Speaker 1: for you. And that's what we hope to do in
Speaker 1: this episode is just give you another tool to discern.
Speaker 1: We don't think marketing is bad. We spent six months
Speaker 1: marketing our book by What You Love Without Going Broke
Speaker 1: because we so strongly believe in it helps that it
Speaker 1: has the capacity to help people. So we don't think
Speaker 1: marketing is bad. We think deceptive marketing is bad, and
Speaker 1: we want you to have the tools to discern that.
Speaker 1: And we also talk about it in our friend letter
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends podcast dot com. You can sign up for
Speaker 1: our three times weekly newsletter where we get even more
Speaker 1: to That is also also free, and so that is
Speaker 1: another We bring our YouTube videos, our podcasts, our newsletter
Speaker 1: with all of these things to help you. We want
Speaker 1: to and we will always continue to bring them to
Speaker 1: you for free. That is something we stand by. We
Speaker 1: don't want to have to make you buy an online
Speaker 1: course or pay a subscription every month to get that stuff,
Speaker 1: and even if you can and would afford it, there
Speaker 1: are people who can't, and we want to continue to
Speaker 1: have that free for them, and this is how we
Speaker 1: do it. So thank you for paying for the show
Speaker 1: with your time and grace and listening.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and hopefully you feel more and more equipped to
Speaker 4: be able to navigate these very murky waters, to be
Speaker 4: able to make those good decisions for yourself. Because even
Speaker 4: if we believe in a brand or a product that
Speaker 4: we personally talk about, it still doesn't mean that it's
Speaker 4: for everybody. And so you need to feel really confident
Speaker 4: about making those spending decisions that work for you. And
Speaker 4: this conversation with doctor Mahra is just one more thing
Speaker 4: that we can provide.
Speaker 5: To be able to help you feel really confident in that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Beyond the Netflix documentary by now, doctor Mara Einstein is
Speaker 1: an internationally recognized expert on deceptive marketing tactics. She's the
Speaker 1: author of eight books, including her latest Hoodwinked, How marketers
Speaker 1: use the same tactics I as cults, and she's after
Speaker 1: working for a decade in corporate marketing, now she has
Speaker 1: a PhD and she's in academia talking about deceptive marketing
Speaker 1: so you're gonna love this interview.
Speaker 3: I'm so excited for you to hear it.
Speaker 1: Let's do it, Doctor Merra, Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast.
Speaker 3: We are excited to have you here.
Speaker 6: I'm so excited for this conversation. I can't wait to
Speaker 6: dig in.
Speaker 4: This is exactly up our alley. We talk about this
Speaker 4: topic a bit in the book, but you've got so
Speaker 4: much more expertise to bring to the table.
Speaker 5: So can we just.
Speaker 4: Dive right in with all of the juicy goodness that
Speaker 4: we want to explore today. What do you see as
Speaker 4: the parallels between the tactics of cults and some common
Speaker 4: marketing practices.
Speaker 6: When people talk people who work in marketing, they talk
Speaker 6: about something called the marketing funnel. And the way that
Speaker 6: the marketing funnel works is that at the top of
Speaker 6: the funnel there is very wide open, right, and that's
Speaker 6: where awareness happens.
Speaker 7: So it's like.
Speaker 6: Everyone in the world is out there. Marketers want to
Speaker 6: bring all of their you know, their information to people
Speaker 6: find out who will like their product, so they scream
Speaker 6: and yell about it as much as possible. So that's
Speaker 6: a very basic part of marketing. That's awareness. The second
Speaker 6: part is called consideration. So now you've heard about all
Speaker 6: of these products out in the world, and then you
Speaker 6: decide this one's for me, this one's not for me,
Speaker 6: and so on. The third step of the process is
Speaker 6: what's actually known as conversion.
Speaker 7: It's when you buy. When you buy.
Speaker 6: Something, you are known as a convert. And then the
Speaker 6: last part is loyalty. And loyalty we now call marketing evangelists.
Speaker 6: So within a social media space, what has made people
Speaker 6: not just loyalists but marketing evangelists is the ability to
Speaker 6: be able to then talk about the product to you know, thousands,
Speaker 6: if not millions of people, depending upon what the size
Speaker 6: of your following is. So colts do the exact same
Speaker 6: thing that marketers do. They want to grab people in
Speaker 6: the awareness space. Right, we're going to tell you who
Speaker 6: we are. But little catch here they use a bit
Speaker 6: of deception. Right, they don't tell you exactly who they
Speaker 6: are when they're bringing you into awareness. So a great
Speaker 6: example for this is x con, which is used to
Speaker 6: be called the Hari Krishna's Right, they used to be
Speaker 6: on the corners in New York City with the orange
Speaker 6: robes and the ponytails and the whole things. Now they
Speaker 6: don't look like that anymore. But what they do is
Speaker 6: they invite college students and others to have a free
Speaker 6: dinner and who doesn't like a free tour or a
Speaker 6: free meditation class or a free yoga class. And then
Speaker 6: they start to bring them into the group. Right, This
Speaker 6: increases their awareness, It increases them knowing about quote unquote
Speaker 6: knowing what this organization is about. And then they bring
Speaker 6: them into community. This is a key part of this
Speaker 6: and this is what happens in terms of the consideration
Speaker 6: set step. Is what brands and cults do is create
Speaker 6: community around people. So this is something you This is
Speaker 6: a good like bell thing for your listeners to think about.
Speaker 6: Is somebody trying to make me a part of a
Speaker 6: group before I know anything about them? Are they trying
Speaker 6: to tell me how wonderful I am before they know
Speaker 6: anything about me? And cults and brands both use this
Speaker 6: because if what companies started to do in the early
Speaker 6: two thousands, right as a social media spaces started to grow,
Speaker 6: is they created brand communities and these were around things
Speaker 6: like Natella, of all things. And actually Natella happened because
Speaker 6: of the brand, not because of the company. You know,
Speaker 6: people who are fans of Nadella love Natella, and they
Speaker 6: created World Natella Day. It wasn't the brand, it was
Speaker 6: the fans that did it. And so if fans do it,
Speaker 6: that's cool. It's when brands start to do it and
Speaker 6: just start to get you to integrate with them and
Speaker 6: form a community. Because what forming a community does, whether
Speaker 6: it's a brand or it's a cult, makes it harder
Speaker 6: to leave because it's not about you leaving just this
Speaker 6: brand or this group. It's about leaving all the people
Speaker 6: you made connections with, and that becomes much harder to leave.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen this a lot in the body positivity movement,
Speaker 1: where it has shifted from like being okay with yourself
Speaker 1: and loving yourself in whatever shape or however you are,
Speaker 1: to being this marketing tactic where people say like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're beautiful, you just need this, you know one product
Speaker 1: that I have. This one's skincare product, and then we
Speaker 1: create communities around skincare. And I see it even more
Speaker 1: so like this is just in general marketing, but even
Speaker 1: more so in MLMs like which are somehow making a resurgence.
Speaker 8: I am flabbergasted, but yeah, I you don't think about
Speaker 8: it until you hear like doctor Mary you saying like
Speaker 8: this stuff.
Speaker 6: Well, I talk a lot about MLMs in Hoodwinked, just
Speaker 6: long sections. I spent two years researching MLMs and talking
Speaker 6: with people who are part of MLMs, who left MLMs,
Speaker 6: talking with regulators, talking with researchers. So I spent all
Speaker 6: lot of time digging into that. And one of the
Speaker 6: things that I did was I asked a cult expert
Speaker 6: and people who had been in MLMs, if you were
Speaker 6: going to do a vent diagram between an MLM and
Speaker 6: a cult, what would it look like. And they all
Speaker 6: said it would look like a circle, because they absolutely
Speaker 6: are the same thing. Because what happens is Okay, so
Speaker 6: we're talking about the marketing funnel, so that's from the
Speaker 6: perspective of the marketer, but you're looking at it specifically
Speaker 6: in terms of cults. Let's parallel this. So the first
Speaker 6: step in the product process is recruiting vulnerable people. And
Speaker 6: so you know, if you're talking about a cult, one
Speaker 6: of the places they love to recruit people whose college
Speaker 6: campus is in September, because you have a group of
Speaker 6: very young people who haven't established social ties who're trying
Speaker 6: to find people to connect with and so that's like
Speaker 6: talk about a rich space where you can find your
Speaker 6: market audience. That's really key for them. If you want
Speaker 6: to think about it in terms of consumers, I prefer
Speaker 6: to call us people. Don't talk about yourself as a consumer.
Speaker 6: That's probably the first thing to think about. And you'll
Speaker 6: notice in all of my books I try to avoid
Speaker 6: the word consumer as much as possible, because if we
Speaker 6: think of ourselves as consumers, that's putting the idea into
Speaker 6: our head that that's who we are, and it's not
Speaker 6: who we are.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the language around what you're describing is so important,
Speaker 4: and I opening to recognize that a lot of the
Speaker 4: language used within cults and marketing, even on the back end,
Speaker 4: is similar. Do you think in all of your research
Speaker 4: and studies and understanding of this that there is an
Speaker 4: awareness of this from a marketing perspective? Like how insidious
Speaker 4: do you think marketers from the marketer's perspective are from
Speaker 4: people from a marketer's perspective? Like are they aware like
Speaker 4: we are kind of functioning like we're taking the playbook
Speaker 4: from the cults?
Speaker 6: Yes, because when I interviewed marketers, so so, just to
Speaker 6: give people a little bit of background, so I have
Speaker 6: an MBA and a PhD. So I expected to work
Speaker 6: in this business forever. And I worked as a marketer
Speaker 6: for a decade and then I switched and became a critic.
Speaker 6: And so when I go to interview people who are
Speaker 6: in the industry, I say to them, I'm not doing
Speaker 6: this to attack you. I'm doing this to help to
Speaker 6: I know, I'm in this privileged position to be able
Speaker 6: to understand what you do on a day to day basis,
Speaker 6: but also to take a bird's eye view to see
Speaker 6: what is going on more globally in terms of a
Speaker 6: marketing perspective. And because of that, they're willing they're willing
Speaker 6: to talk to me. So like I talked to corporate
Speaker 6: marketers from MLMs. We can talk about that late. They
Speaker 6: didn't talk on the.
Speaker 7: Record, but they didn't talk. They did talk to me.
Speaker 6: But I so when I interviewed them for Food Prinked,
Speaker 6: I didn't tell them the subtitle of the book, which
Speaker 6: is how marketers use the same tactics as cults, because
Speaker 6: I didn't want to frame the conversation. I wanted them
Speaker 6: to just tell me what their ideas were. And so
Speaker 6: then at the end of the interview, I would tell
Speaker 6: them what the name of the book was and they
Speaker 6: all went, yeah, yeah, that's exactly what we do. And
Speaker 6: for some it was it was yes, it's exactly what
Speaker 6: we do, and for some it was like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: it is what we do.
Speaker 7: Yike.
Speaker 1: So some got it and some were like yeah.
Speaker 3: I guess so now that you say it that way, wow.
Speaker 6: Wow, because what's happening right, So, so going back to
Speaker 6: this idea of getting people when they're vulnerable, I mean,
Speaker 6: advertising has done that since the beginning of time.
Speaker 7: That's not new. And so you know.
Speaker 6: So to your point, Jen, what you were talking about
Speaker 6: in terms of health and wellness, Right, you're not pretty enough,
Speaker 6: you're not fit enough, you're not thin enough.
Speaker 7: Right, use our products.
Speaker 6: So this problem solution advertising has always been the most
Speaker 6: successful kind of advertising out there, and it plays on
Speaker 6: our psychology.
Speaker 7: And so what used to exist is this.
Speaker 6: Sort of propagandistic idea of advertising, which is you just
Speaker 6: throw the message out there, you say it over and
Speaker 6: over and over and over again, and people will start
Speaker 6: to believe it. And this is what existed in the
Speaker 6: nineteen fifties when mass media and mass marketing first began
Speaker 6: to come onto the scene. So what you had at
Speaker 6: that time was something called the unique selling proposition or
Speaker 6: the USP, and that's what companies would say over and
Speaker 6: over and over again, so melts in your mouth, not
Speaker 6: in your hand, right, so that people would begin to
Speaker 6: believe it. But what happened in the nineteen sixties and
Speaker 6: going into the seventies and beyond one what you had
Speaker 6: is the introduction of psychologists and psychiatrists into advertising and marketing,
Speaker 6: so they could begin to think of the psychology of
Speaker 6: how to sell and understanding from a communication standpoint. Right,
Speaker 6: So I teach media studies and marketing and advertising from
Speaker 6: a communications standpoint. We also begin to understand that not
Speaker 6: everybody accepts the information and is the same way as
Speaker 6: everybody else. They used to talk about it as the
Speaker 6: hypodermic need all of communication. You just take a big
Speaker 6: need on you send all the information out into the marketplace,
Speaker 6: and everybody's going to believe it. Well, nobody believes that
Speaker 6: and understands that that's the way that communication works anymore.
Speaker 6: What they do is try to figure out what your
Speaker 6: vulnerabilities are and then find the ways to tap into
Speaker 6: your vulnerabilities and talk to those.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, so can you give examples of industries or
Speaker 1: brands how they will tap into those insecurities.
Speaker 6: Wow, how do they not.
Speaker 1: Maybe some of the ways people like would it think about?
Speaker 1: But you're like, let me give.
Speaker 6: You an extreme example. A good extreme example is for
Speaker 6: profit colleges. So the way that for profit so nonprofit
Speaker 6: colleges are probably what people normally think of when they
Speaker 6: think of colleges. Harvard is a nonprofit college. But we'll
Speaker 6: lead and still put that's to the side for just
Speaker 6: a second. But when you're thinking of for private colleges
Speaker 6: like the University of Phoenix, like Trump University, these are
Speaker 6: specifically working to get people in the door because they
Speaker 6: want to take advantage of the federal loan system. They
Speaker 6: don't really care whether or not you get an education.
Speaker 6: They just want your money or the government's money, and
Speaker 6: then you have to pay the government back. So what
Speaker 6: they do is they look for what are known as
Speaker 6: your pain point. What is that thing that's going to
Speaker 6: hurt you so much that it's going to get you
Speaker 6: off your duff and actually pay for this. So it
Speaker 6: could be something like, you know, you want to do
Speaker 6: this for your kid, right, you don't want your kid
Speaker 6: to go through what you went through, right, you want
Speaker 6: to be able to have that job, you want to
Speaker 6: be able to make more money, right, And so they
Speaker 6: push on all of those things until they get you
Speaker 6: to purchase. The way that cults do this. For a
Speaker 6: previous book, I spent a couple of years researching the
Speaker 6: Kabala Center. What's something like the Kabala Center does is
Speaker 6: they you take an introductory class with them, and part
Speaker 6: of the introductory class is you get a free session
Speaker 6: with the teacher. Well, it's not really a free session,
Speaker 6: so you think you're going in there all and I said,
Speaker 6: oh great, I get a session with the teacher.
Speaker 7: This is cool.
Speaker 6: No, it's the hardest sales pitch you have ever seen
Speaker 6: in your entire life. And it's you and the teacher.
Speaker 6: So you want to talk about a power position. That
Speaker 6: person's got power over you, they have information over you,
Speaker 6: and then they try to sell you on all of
Speaker 6: the things that they have. Most people, and the worst
Speaker 6: thing that they do, and a lot of cults do
Speaker 6: this is if you really cared, if you really cared
Speaker 6: about your sense of spirituality, you would find a way
Speaker 6: to pay for this. Put it on your credit card,
Speaker 6: borrow it from your parents, you know, do whatever it
Speaker 6: is you need to do, but you need to find
Speaker 6: a way of pains money. And it's like and if
Speaker 6: you're in enough pain, right, remember going back to vulnerability,
Speaker 6: if you're in enough pain, you will do it because
Speaker 6: you think what this person is selling is going to
Speaker 6: eliminate that pain for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you don't even have to be in pain
Speaker 1: when you walk in the door. They'll create it for you,
Speaker 1: like I think of time shares not. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you really care about your family and their vag cations,
Speaker 1: you'll do this. It'll force you to take a vacation
Speaker 1: every year.
Speaker 6: And yeah, oh my gosh, yeah exactly. Yeah, yeah, So
Speaker 6: I'm curious to hear from you.
Speaker 4: You've described a little bit of the vulnerability and kind
Speaker 4: of how that draws us into maybe making purchases that
Speaker 4: we otherwise wouldn't have or beginning to belong to a cult.
Speaker 4: And I think so many of us, you know, we
Speaker 4: can watch some of these documentaries and imagine, oh, but
Speaker 4: I would never And yet, as you're describing, we are
Speaker 4: susceptible to these same strategies within marketing and are purchasing
Speaker 4: and consumption. Why do you think we're so unaware of this.
Speaker 4: How is it so clouded from our site that we
Speaker 4: are just engaging in this and we don't even know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, what's interesting to me is and what's hard for
Speaker 6: me and the work that I do, is that every
Speaker 6: thinks they understand marketing, right. Everybody thinks they know how
Speaker 6: it all works. But if they begin to, for instance,
Speaker 6: following me on TikTok, they're like, oh, I didn't know
Speaker 6: about that geofencing. What's geofencing?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 6: So all of these things that are going on that
Speaker 6: they don't understand. And as you begin to pull the threads,
Speaker 6: then people people start opening up their eyes. There's also
Speaker 6: something known as the third person effect. And the third
Speaker 6: person effect is this idea that, oh, advertising and marketing
Speaker 6: affects everybody else, but it doesn't impact me.
Speaker 7: But it does.
Speaker 6: And so to be aware part of and to get
Speaker 6: to the other part of your question, you know, the
Speaker 6: issue with it right now is that we are engaging
Speaker 6: with the vast majority of our advertising on social media,
Speaker 6: not just on social media, but on our phone, and
Speaker 6: the technology is designed in such a way to keep
Speaker 6: one to keep us connec for as long as possible,
Speaker 6: and to make us as anxious as possible, and that
Speaker 6: anxiety creates vulnerability, right, it all becomes part of this circle.
Speaker 6: And so in terms of the technology, one of the
Speaker 6: things is is that there's no stopping point, right, It's
Speaker 6: endless scroll, so that you know, if you watch a movie,
Speaker 6: you stop watching movie, it's done, you walk away and
Speaker 6: it's over. But there is no set point. So that's
Speaker 6: why you find yourself if you're on social media spaces
Speaker 6: just endlessly scrolling, because the longer that you stay on
Speaker 6: those spaces, the more likely you will engage with advertising
Speaker 6: and the hope is that you will ultimately buy something. Now,
Speaker 6: remember going back to the funnel. The whole idea of
Speaker 6: the funnel is that you will go through this whole process. Now,
Speaker 6: in traditional media, it would take a lot of time
Speaker 6: to get from the awareness to part of the funnel
Speaker 6: to the marketing evangelist part of it.
Speaker 7: You had to you know.
Speaker 6: Maybe saw commercial or you saw a billboard or you
Speaker 6: saw a print ad, and this was happening over time,
Speaker 6: and then you said, okay, you know what I want
Speaker 6: this product, and so you get in your car or
Speaker 6: you walk down to your town and then you go
Speaker 6: buy it. And then you look at it and then
Speaker 6: you kind of go, you know what, maybe I don't
Speaker 6: want to spend one hundred and fifty dollars on a
Speaker 6: pair of shoes. Maybe I really don't. The problem with
Speaker 6: the online space is that the funnel has been collapsed,
Speaker 6: so there's no time between the awareness space and the
Speaker 6: purchase face. There's almost no time from that to then
Speaker 6: tell people that go tell everybody else.
Speaker 4: One of the things we've talked about on the podcast
Speaker 4: and even in my own mental health background, is that
Speaker 4: vulnerability without protection leads to exploitation. And I think this
Speaker 4: is what I'm hearing you describe here, and it's making
Speaker 4: me wonder. You know, if people exit cults, those who
Speaker 4: are kind of lucky enough to find themselves on the
Speaker 4: other side of it and begin a healing process, that's
Speaker 4: exactly what needs to happen, is a healing process, and
Speaker 4: there is emotional, relational, psychological impact. Would you say the
Speaker 4: same then for marketing, Like, what is the exploitation that's happening?
Speaker 4: What is some of the emotional psychological impact of these
Speaker 4: marketing tactics that mimic cults.
Speaker 6: One of the things I talk about is that economists
Speaker 6: say that we're living in an attention economy, meaning that
Speaker 6: you know, marketers want our attention for as long a
Speaker 6: period of time as possible so that we'll engage with
Speaker 6: the advertising. What I'm suggesting is that we live in
Speaker 6: an anxiety economy because it's not just enough to get
Speaker 6: our eyeballs, it's and they want to ramp up our emotions.
Speaker 6: And so you can see this in social media spaces
Speaker 6: where the incentives for influencers is to ramp up our emotions,
Speaker 6: to get be enraged, is to do this sort of
Speaker 6: rage farming so that we get upset and then we
Speaker 6: share their content, and so that creates the cycle of anxiety,
Speaker 6: doom scrolling, anxiety purchase, right, because anxiety needs release, It
Speaker 6: needs to be released, and again the technology is created
Speaker 6: and it's and it's all about the dopamine hit. And
Speaker 6: you talk about this, right, it's all about the dopamine hit.
Speaker 6: So how do you get away from from the need
Speaker 6: from the dopamine hit. One, You've got to start putting
Speaker 6: your phone down, find reasons not to walk around with
Speaker 6: your phone, and certainly with what's going on in our
Speaker 6: country right now, even more reasons not to walk around
Speaker 6: with your phone. Turn off your location don't let people
Speaker 6: know where you are. You don't, you know, unless you
Speaker 6: need it really for safety purposes. You know, there's no
Speaker 6: reason for you to walk around with your phone twenty
Speaker 6: four to seven.
Speaker 7: Take you know, I know.
Speaker 6: It's hard for people to give up social media. Take
Speaker 6: a one day break, take a two day break, you know,
Speaker 6: say for the weekend. You know what, I'm not going
Speaker 6: to go on social media for the weekend, and for
Speaker 6: no other reason. It will shift you and it will
Speaker 6: enable you to see, oh, I don't need this stuff.
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm sort of going through this right now
Speaker 6: because of what happened with the TikTok band. So that's
Speaker 6: where I have my biggest following, and I also had
Speaker 6: a bit of a following on Instagram and threads. But
Speaker 6: after what Zuckerberg did, I said, you know what, I
Speaker 6: can't be on those spaces anymore. So I've deactivated all
Speaker 6: my meta accounts and it's been an adjustment. But I'm
Speaker 6: also finding out that I don't need to be on
Speaker 6: as much as I was. I'm also thinking about you know,
Speaker 6: I'm old enough to remember where we engaged with news
Speaker 6: twice a day. You got up in the morning, you
Speaker 6: had your newspaper was delivered to your house, You read
Speaker 6: the newspaper, you went about your day, you lived your life,
Speaker 6: and you came home at night and you either watched
Speaker 6: the six thirty news or the eleven o'clock news, and
Speaker 6: that was it. You don't need to know what's going
Speaker 6: on in the world twenty four hours a day.
Speaker 7: Nobody does.
Speaker 6: And it's it.
Speaker 7: It's just it's just not good.
Speaker 6: It's just not good for you, and it's not for you.
Speaker 6: You know what I always what I always say to
Speaker 6: people is if you are thinking of this thing as
Speaker 6: anything other than a shopping madel, you're thinking about it
Speaker 6: the wrong way. The guy who created Okaycupid said, this
Speaker 6: is a twenty four to seven marketing research piece of
Speaker 6: equipment and everybody should understand that. And not everybody does
Speaker 6: understand this, and that was eight years ago. And I
Speaker 6: think more people have a better idea that their data
Speaker 6: is being collected and so on, But I don't think
Speaker 6: people have a full extent of how it is being
Speaker 6: used against them.
Speaker 1: Yep, I like, I can't say anything more than that.
Speaker 1: That is, yeah, exactly. So aside from not walking away,
Speaker 1: like not walking around with your phone or just like
Speaker 1: putting the phone down more. What other advice would you
Speaker 1: give people to protect themselves from these tactics to protect
Speaker 1: their vulnerability.
Speaker 6: There's no way for the FDC to be able to
Speaker 6: find out if somebody actually is sponsored or not sponsored.
Speaker 6: So just sort of assume, just go from the assumption
Speaker 6: that if somebody's trying to looks like they're trying to
Speaker 6: sell you something, they're probably getting paid for it. There's
Speaker 6: also because we because we know that they that we
Speaker 6: approach advertising with a very different mindset then we do
Speaker 6: so called editorial content. If somebody is not being paid
Speaker 6: to say, to sell something, and it's an influencer that
Speaker 6: we know, then we come at it with a more
Speaker 6: relaxed attitude. But the second we see hashtag sponsored, then
Speaker 6: we go, oh, Okay, somebody's trying to sell me something,
Speaker 6: and you pay much more attention to it. Assume just
Speaker 6: go in assuming that somebody has an agenda, and somebody's
Speaker 6: trying to sell you something, if they're holding anything in
Speaker 6: their hand, just assume they're getting paid to do it.
Speaker 6: Because part of the problem is too is with the
Speaker 6: more the smaller influencers, I mean the nanano influencers who
Speaker 6: have like five to ten thousand followers. A lot of
Speaker 6: them don't get paid. A lot of them are paid
Speaker 6: what they call in kind, I mean meaning they are
Speaker 6: given the product to test and then promote. That is
Speaker 6: still considered by the FTC to be paid. But a
Speaker 6: lot of those nano influencers don't know that. So, particularly
Speaker 6: if you're following somebody that you have come to appreciate,
Speaker 6: just assume that that they're getting paid, and so enter
Speaker 6: into that conversation with that attitude. I would also say,
Speaker 6: you know, not all influencers are bad people. You know,
Speaker 6: There's there's some that legitimately have want to provide information,
Speaker 6: and there's some that are just out there to you know,
Speaker 6: rack up their numbers as quickly as possible. And it's
Speaker 6: been really interesting to see, you know, since TikTok has
Speaker 6: come back up that you know, some of the rage
Speaker 6: stuff is really off, really off the charts, and I've
Speaker 6: had to put it down and put it away and
Speaker 6: block people. You know, you're the block button is your friend,
Speaker 6: and so if there's people that are, you know, block it,
Speaker 6: get rid of it, don't engage with it. And also
Speaker 6: just you know, particularly now, get involved with your local community.
Speaker 6: Know who your neighbors are. Interact with your neighbors, can
Speaker 6: you help with them? I belong to my local civic association,
Speaker 6: and you know, I've gotten to meet wonderful people who
Speaker 6: are in their eighties and who have lived in my
Speaker 6: neighborhood for years and know the history and the stories.
Speaker 6: And you know, one woman was came from Germany. She's
Speaker 6: about to turn ninety and Nazi stole her doll and
Speaker 6: she stole it back from him and she lived to
Speaker 6: tell the tale.
Speaker 7: Right this, right right?
Speaker 6: So you don't You don't find that out by being
Speaker 6: on social media.
Speaker 7: You find that out by going to talk to your neighbors.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, there is one question I'd like to kind
Speaker 1: of get this. So you were in the Buy Now documentary.
Speaker 1: Is there anything that they did not use that you
Speaker 1: said that you wish they would have?
Speaker 6: Oh gosh, yes, there was the whole second day of
Speaker 6: shooting that didn't make it into the documentary. And if
Speaker 6: you notice on the documentary, they high around me as
Speaker 6: a former marketing executive, and I think that was because
Speaker 6: of how they were framing the film as everybody being
Speaker 6: ex marketing executives, which is true, but they never talk
Speaker 6: about me being a professor and a marketing critic. So
Speaker 6: the entire second day was me giving a lecture about
Speaker 6: greenwashing and how this whole idea of greenwashing and pink
Speaker 6: washing and so on, the idea of what I call
Speaker 6: purpose talk about as purpose washing, and that is when
Speaker 6: companies connect a brand to a cause. And the reason
Speaker 6: why companies want to do this, particularly for millennials and
Speaker 6: gen z, is because there's been some of the other
Speaker 6: larger institutions in our society don't have the same impact
Speaker 6: on us in terms of identity creation as they used
Speaker 6: to do things like our religion, things like our jobs,
Speaker 6: things like our family. And so what happened in the
Speaker 6: nineteen nineties and into the two thousands is that the
Speaker 6: market and brands came in to fill that void. So
Speaker 6: we're Starbucks or we're Duncan, right, right, So those become
Speaker 6: identifiers for who we are and if we're going to
Speaker 6: make these brands part of our identity, what people said
Speaker 6: to companies was, well, you better tell me what your
Speaker 6: values are. If I'm really going to connect with you,
Speaker 6: you better tell me what your values are. And so
Speaker 6: a lot of companies began connecting their products to causes,
Speaker 6: and it could be anything from pink ribbons to greenwashing
Speaker 6: to you know, save the animals, to you know, the
Speaker 6: red campaign that Bona was behind. And most of these,
Speaker 6: quite frankly, are bs. They don't live up to the
Speaker 6: values that they present, and there's very few that do.
Speaker 6: What's been interesting to me to see is how many
Speaker 6: people are talking about Ben and Jerry's right now. And
Speaker 6: that's one company that really does live up to the
Speaker 6: values that they talk about because they've been doing it
Speaker 6: one They've been doing it long. So this is what
Speaker 6: you want to look for to find out whether a
Speaker 6: company really cares about the cause they are connecting themselves
Speaker 6: to Have they been doing it for a long time?
Speaker 6: Did they do it for a year and then move
Speaker 6: on then no, forget about it. Is it something that
Speaker 6: just increases their sales or are they actually doing something
Speaker 6: that's going to make a difference. So what I always
Speaker 6: talk about when I talk about purpose is the difference
Speaker 6: between purpose and impact. Purpose is a nice name. Impact
Speaker 6: is making a difference. And so again Ben and Jerry's
Speaker 6: becomes a great example for something like that. Mac Cosmetics,
Speaker 6: right they have the lipstick that comes out once a
Speaker 6: year and all of the money, not the profits. Right,
Speaker 6: Look and see if they're saying profits, they're saying profits,
Speaker 6: are they saying all of it? All of the money
Speaker 6: from that lipstick goes for AIDS and HIV either education
Speaker 6: or assistance for people who suffer with that. So what
Speaker 6: you see with a lot of companies though, is that
Speaker 6: they say something like breast cancer is a great example.
Speaker 6: The pink ribbon is not trademarked, so a company can
Speaker 6: just slap that pink ribbon onto a product and say, oh,
Speaker 6: I support breast cancer, and there could be absolutely nothing
Speaker 6: behind it.
Speaker 7: Nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel the same thing in June where everything
Speaker 1: goes rainbow like that, the flag is not trademarked and
Speaker 1: everybody uses it.
Speaker 6: It's a great example.
Speaker 4: Man, you are giving us such tangible tips on how
Speaker 4: to protect ourselves as well as the just awareness items
Speaker 4: where we can feel a little bit more equipped to make.
Speaker 4: We're still going to be buying, We're going still going
Speaker 4: to be spending money, and there's still going to be
Speaker 4: products that might actually help to solve a real problem
Speaker 4: or create a more efficient lifestyle.
Speaker 5: But to be sure that we are.
Speaker 4: Making those decisions and not manipulated into making those decisions.
Speaker 6: There's nothing wrong with buying. If you need something, buy
Speaker 6: something that The issue is over consuming and over consuming. Look,
Speaker 6: if you want to be radical, you know, stop buying
Speaker 6: stuff you don't need. That is one of the most
Speaker 6: radical things you can do, because what it does is
Speaker 6: it makes it so you don't have to be working
Speaker 6: all the time to pay off all of that debt,
Speaker 6: which is just crazy. Because what we have done with
Speaker 6: Silicon Valley has done beyond everything else, and I have
Speaker 6: all kinds of issues with them, is valorize the idea
Speaker 6: of a side hustle and the gig economy and the
Speaker 6: fact that everybody can be an entrepreneur.
Speaker 7: No, you know what a.
Speaker 6: Lot of people would like to go in work a
Speaker 6: nine to five and be able to make a salary
Speaker 6: with that one paycheck and be able to put a
Speaker 6: roof over their heads, pay for their meals, and be
Speaker 6: able to send their.
Speaker 7: Kids to college. Well, we got sucker.
Speaker 6: Punched over the last twenty years by a bunch of
Speaker 6: adolescent white dudes and the West Coast and all we'll
Speaker 6: stop there before I.
Speaker 1: Say it stems back to the two income trap by
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren, and that is all that would be a
Speaker 1: whole nother eport so that we do not have time for.
Speaker 1: But basically, when we went to two incomes, it didn't
Speaker 1: it didn't help us, It didn't help women as much.
Speaker 1: It just made everything more expensive and we consume more products.
Speaker 1: So now we need more money to consume more products
Speaker 1: and to afford bigger houses. That's what it really did,
Speaker 1: right and under the guys though of equality, right, and.
Speaker 6: The idea that anybody could be an influencer and that
Speaker 6: people could make money from this.
Speaker 7: There are fifty.
Speaker 6: Million influencers around the world and only two million of
Speaker 6: them make any kind of a living at it. So
Speaker 6: the odds, the odds are not in your favor.
Speaker 4: Do you know what is in our favor and is
Speaker 4: not a trap? And you do believe brings about just
Speaker 4: such joy? Everybody benefits from my life.
Speaker 9: The bill of the week, that's right, it's time for
Speaker 9: the best minute of your entire week.
Speaker 2: Maybe a baby was born and his name is Williams.
Speaker 2: Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, Maybe your car died
Speaker 2: and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 2: That bills, Buffalo bills, bill cleon.
Speaker 4: This is the.
Speaker 3: Bill of the week.
Speaker 1: Doctor Mara every week we yell at our listeners and
Speaker 1: our guests because we are so excited to hear their bills,
Speaker 1: and we are just as excited to hear your bill
Speaker 1: this week.
Speaker 6: I had to think about this. It was really struggled
Speaker 6: with this. But when I finally got to it, I
Speaker 6: don't know if people are going to know who he
Speaker 6: is or not.
Speaker 7: Do you know who Bill Fagerbaki is?
Speaker 6: No, sure, don't tell me you do. Bill Fagerbaki is
Speaker 6: the voice of Patrick Starr on SpongeBob square Pants. And
Speaker 6: I was many many, many many many years ago. I
Speaker 6: used to be a commercial talent agent and Bill Fegerbaki
Speaker 6: was one of our clients.
Speaker 7: And he is He's huge, He's like six ' six,
Speaker 7: really tall.
Speaker 6: Blocking he's also used to be on the show Coach.
Speaker 6: Like he said, he's not dumb at all. He's really smart.
Speaker 6: He's just the nicest guy, truly, truly, just the nicest guy.
Speaker 6: And so when I thought of Bill, I was like,
Speaker 6: oh God, Bill FAGERBACKI.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's amazing. That's a new one. We've never had this.
Speaker 4: But I am a SpongeBob fan and this is very exciting.
Speaker 6: So now now you have to go look him up
Speaker 6: and see what he looks like exactly.
Speaker 5: Oh how.
Speaker 4: Thank you doctor Ara for sharing that incredibly enlightening, very
Speaker 4: fun Bill. If you at listening have a bill that
Speaker 4: you want to share, if it's about the voice of
Speaker 4: a beloved cartoon character, or just your name is Bill
Speaker 4: and you are beloved, or anything else Bill related, you
Speaker 4: know you know what we love fru wellfriendspodcast dot com
Speaker 4: slash Bill leave it for us.
Speaker 5: We can't wait to hear it. And now it's time.
Speaker 1: For all right, So for this week's lightning Round question,
Speaker 1: can you recall a recent ad or marketing tactic that
Speaker 1: felt cult like to you?
Speaker 6: The one I've been talking about and I've actually been
Speaker 6: talking about for three years, but it's back.
Speaker 7: Is he gets us? That he gets us campaign?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 6: Do you know?
Speaker 5: Okay, so I'm wondering who's putting this out?
Speaker 4: Where's who's big Jesus out here putting out as you know, you.
Speaker 6: Know who's you know, who's behind it? The Coke Brothers,
Speaker 6: the Koch brothers, the Republican Party.
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, you get that.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 6: If people want to say I have I've done a
Speaker 6: ton of tiktoks on this but the short version of
Speaker 6: it is is that it is put out by a
Speaker 6: consortium of conservatives.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 6: There is an organization called barn Of Research and Connected,
Speaker 6: which is a conservative research organization which is connected to
Speaker 6: another company called.
Speaker 7: Glue g l oo. Go check out Glue.
Speaker 6: It's a data marketing firm for conservative Christians and very
Speaker 6: tied to the Republican Party. They are funded by the
Speaker 6: Koch Brothers. Also, the guy behind Hobby Lobby also gave
Speaker 6: a lot of money to this.
Speaker 1: So I did hear that one? I did hear that
Speaker 1: Hobby Lobby was partially behind it.
Speaker 6: Okay, so this is this was a three year so
Speaker 6: wait for it at the super Bowl. Even be sure
Speaker 6: it's going to be part of the super Bowl. It
Speaker 6: was a three year campaign. I think a billion dollars.
Speaker 6: Can you will see it shown during all the Super
Speaker 6: Bowls and all of the major sporting events. It's also
Speaker 6: connected to the Alpha course. If people know the Alpha Course.
Speaker 4: WHOA, that's something that I haven't. Maybe I just wasn't
Speaker 4: paying enough attention to it. Where are they even trying
Speaker 4: to use a marketing term and aical term funnel people too?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 4: It didn't seem to be connected to any particular church, like,
Speaker 4: do you have an idea of like what they're hoping
Speaker 4: the takeaway or action item is after seeing this ad.
Speaker 6: The the Barnet Organization is a marketing company that works
Speaker 6: with churches, and so the hope is that these tools
Speaker 6: that are being created by Alpha are then used by
Speaker 6: these churches, and then these churches use them as a
Speaker 6: way to bring people into their spaces. I took one
Speaker 6: of the classes that Barnet gave in association with this campaign.
Speaker 6: It was I've been in a lot of evangelical rooms,
Speaker 6: but that one was particularly uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: That's so sad because I'm usually I mean, at least
Speaker 1: I used to be impressed by Barna's like research.
Speaker 3: It seemed to be more neutral than others.
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, but they're now they are now fully connected
Speaker 6: to Glue, which maybe the documentary I would really recommend
Speaker 6: to people if they want to understand the connections between Republicans, churches,
Speaker 6: marketing data, all.
Speaker 3: Of that sort of stuff.
Speaker 6: So documentary called people you May Know, People you may Know.
Speaker 4: And.
Speaker 6: The guy who did it was one of the people
Speaker 6: who testified in front of the UK Parliament about Cambridge Analytica,
Speaker 6: and so he gets into talking to people about how
Speaker 6: the data related to that's being gobbled up by these
Speaker 6: companies are then being funneled to churches. Now, why a
Speaker 6: two hundred member church, you know, has the Republican party
Speaker 6: name list attached to it, I'll never know, But go
Speaker 6: watch the documentary at Highlight yea.
Speaker 3: It is so interesting.
Speaker 1: It brings up the fact that so many institutions that
Speaker 1: we may have once trusted and felt like we've known
Speaker 1: have been bought up, like not just in the religious space,
Speaker 1: but like in the you know, capitalism space, have been
Speaker 1: bought up by private equity or other places and are
Speaker 1: different than what we remember or have gained trust in
Speaker 1: in our youth right, And so they think that's another
Speaker 1: way that we can fall victim to some deceptive marketing.
Speaker 6: I think I really want to leave people with in
Speaker 6: terms of what's going on right now, is the difference
Speaker 6: between media like when I was growing up is, yes,
Speaker 6: there were there were five companies that basically controlled the
Speaker 6: media landscape, but they weren't controlling what I was seeing
Speaker 6: on a day to day basis, and I was seeing
Speaker 6: the same thing that my neighbor was seeing. So we
Speaker 6: could have a conversation about it. That's not what's going
Speaker 6: on now. We're all in our individual spaces and we
Speaker 6: aren't necessarily seeing the same thing.
Speaker 7: The other thing is it's.
Speaker 6: The ability of someone like Mark Zuckerberg to control what
Speaker 6: is going on in that platform is at a level
Speaker 6: that none of us can understand. And even from the
Speaker 6: time when I would talk to people who worked in
Speaker 6: advertising spaces and algorithms, they don't understand it. The people
Speaker 6: who work in it don't understand it. And so and
Speaker 6: if anybody tells you they do, they don't. They're lying,
Speaker 6: and particularly now with AI. So the best way that
Speaker 6: you can protect yourself is if you don't need to
Speaker 6: be on those spaces, deactivate them. You don't have to delete,
Speaker 6: but deactivate. Because one of the things that we're saying
Speaker 6: a lot for instance now, and this I think helps
Speaker 6: explain this pretty well, is now that you know who
Speaker 6: is president, you may be following him on Facebook, whether
Speaker 6: you followed him or not, because the company can decide
Speaker 6: who gets to follow who.
Speaker 7: So that's at a level of.
Speaker 6: Deceptiveness I will call it that we have never seen before.
Speaker 6: And because he owns the company, there's no way to
Speaker 6: stop him. So I would say to you, those spaces
Speaker 6: are no longer safe. If you want to connect with
Speaker 6: your groups and there's there's a group that's protecting your cat,
Speaker 6: or there's you know, your local quolting group or whatever
Speaker 6: you know, go on, but also make sure you log
Speaker 6: out every time, Log out every time off of every space,
Speaker 6: because it's not just that they're able to track you
Speaker 6: on the site, and any website that has the Facebook
Speaker 6: icon on it can also be used to track you.
Speaker 1: Didn't they learn from when everyone got mad they put
Speaker 1: the YouTube album on everybody's iPhone?
Speaker 3: Did they not.
Speaker 4: Learn that we don't like that the iPod Wasn't it
Speaker 4: the iPod? You would open up the iPod and it
Speaker 4: automatically had YouTube stop.
Speaker 3: Some people will never learn.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what about for you?
Speaker 4: Jen?
Speaker 1: Okay, So for me, it was for paper towels and
Speaker 1: I can't remember which one, if it was BROWNI or
Speaker 1: something like that, but they were saying that it is
Speaker 1: more hygienic to use paper towels than rags. So you
Speaker 1: need to buy our paper towels if you get to
Speaker 1: care for if you want to care, if you want
Speaker 1: to protect your family, essentially, you need to use paper
Speaker 1: towels and not rags and then I'm there. I'm sitting
Speaker 1: there thinking like I'm not a doctor's office, like I'm
Speaker 1: not a hospital. I can be clean without being sterile,
Speaker 1: but they're believing, they're making people believe that they need
Speaker 1: to be sterile, playing off that fear we have in this.
Speaker 5: Like post COVID. Yeah, yeah, and I thought that.
Speaker 1: Was so sick, like no pun intended.
Speaker 6: Well, if it's if it's Brownie, it's owned by the
Speaker 6: Koch brothers too, so that's another reason to avoid them.
Speaker 4: Wow, what isn't My husband and I recently over the
Speaker 4: holidays watched the Barbie Movie and that was an entire
Speaker 4: ad for many things, including Chevrolet.
Speaker 3: I'm just like, we're just.
Speaker 4: Watching an entertaining Chevrolet ad but also trying to get
Speaker 4: us to be a certain type of person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Barbie Movie was an interesting time, like it was
Speaker 1: in every commercial and was a large commercial itself. But
Speaker 1: it was such a good movie.
Speaker 3: But I really liked it.
Speaker 4: I was gobsmacked that nobody was talking about how much
Speaker 4: of an ad for Chevrolet. It was like they did
Speaker 4: all of the conversation about it that was not part
Speaker 4: of it.
Speaker 1: But this was also eighteen months ago, eighteen months ago
Speaker 1: they did talk about that.
Speaker 4: I don't remember it then either, but I don't know.
Speaker 4: They were just all talking about Ryan Gosling's role and ken.
Speaker 3: He was kinough.
Speaker 1: Oh, doctor Mara, thank you so much, and I know
Speaker 1: that we could talk more. But where can people find
Speaker 1: your book? Hoodwinked and more from you?
Speaker 6: So Hoodwinked is available wherever books are sold, and the
Speaker 6: full title is Hoodwinked? How marketers use the same tactics
Speaker 6: as called because there's another book called hoodwink that came out.
Speaker 7: A year ago, So don't don't go.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but can I can I show it's Yes, it's
Speaker 6: a very very obvious kind of picture, you know, so.
Speaker 7: Very very black. Yes, And you can find me.
Speaker 6: Because my socials are so influx right now. My website
Speaker 6: is Doctormara Einstein dot com. That's d R M A
Speaker 6: R A e I N S T e I N
Speaker 6: dot com I doctor Maarah Einstein on all socials. If
Speaker 6: you do go look for me. And to answer the
Speaker 6: question that everybody wants to know, Yes, I am related
Speaker 6: to that guy.
Speaker 3: That's amazing.
Speaker 5: I know we didn't even make that into the night questions.
Speaker 4: But do you wanna do you wanna's distant.
Speaker 6: It's distant. It's distant, and it's through marriage. But my
Speaker 6: daughter got the blood.
Speaker 4: So yeah, okay, perfect, it still counts.
Speaker 3: It still counts, it lives on.
Speaker 5: Thanks so much for being here, doctor Merra, Thank you
Speaker 5: so much.
Speaker 7: This is great.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I so, I kept thinking about our friend Amanda Montel
Speaker 1: her book cult Ish. She doesn't dive very deeply into consumerism,
Speaker 1: but she does end the book by saying she makes
Speaker 1: a very strong stance that the cult of our time
Speaker 1: is consumerism. Whereas in the seventies it was all the
Speaker 1: you know, the hippie cults and religious cults, and still
Speaker 1: we do have some of those today. But the really
Speaker 1: big cult that most of us are going to struggle with,
Speaker 1: uh is consumerism and it's brand loyalty, all the things
Speaker 1: that doctor Marra was talking about it just and her
Speaker 1: book I highly recommend it. Cultish is all about the
Speaker 1: language of cults, and hearing doctor Marra say all these words, thinking, yes,
Speaker 1: this is cult language that marketers are using, have been using,
Speaker 1: and are going to continue to use.
Speaker 4: I'm really encouraged by this conversation and just my takeaways
Speaker 4: of the protective measures that we can put in place.
Speaker 4: I think so often when it comes to these really
Speaker 4: lofty ideas of things that are outside of our control
Speaker 4: and yet so oppressive to us on a day to
Speaker 4: day basis, it can feel really deflating and overwhelming. But
Speaker 4: I think what I'm hearing from doctor Marhra and even
Speaker 4: in our conversations Jen, that there are things that we
Speaker 4: can be doing that lighten the load for us, that
Speaker 4: make us feel more equipped for these decisions that we're making,
Speaker 4: Like we don't have to just say, man, isn't it
Speaker 4: all just go into crap? Yeah, we can say I
Speaker 4: get to choose how much I engage with this marketing
Speaker 4: by how often I'm looking at my phone. I get
Speaker 4: to put the parameters around that. I get to choose
Speaker 4: what I buy, where my dollars go, how I am
Speaker 4: making these decisions, and little by little, the more of
Speaker 4: us that can do that, the more power in those
Speaker 4: numbers it is. But also, even if nobody else made
Speaker 4: the same decisions that we did, we still have within
Speaker 4: our control the ability to find some degree of peace
Speaker 4: and calm and clarity and confidence even in the midst
Speaker 4: of the mess. With how much we choose to engage
Speaker 4: in this and how equipped we can become. I think
Speaker 4: once you see it, you can't unsee it, you know,
Speaker 4: to kind of realize anything I'm looking at, I can
Speaker 4: look at through a marketing lens of what are they
Speaker 4: trying to sell me? What are they how are they
Speaker 4: trying to attach it to my identity? That makes the
Speaker 4: nose even easier if it's not something for me. Yeah, absolutely, Well,
Speaker 4: thank you all so much for listening.
Speaker 5: We trust that this was a helpful conversation.
Speaker 4: And if you agree, we would love for you to
Speaker 4: leave us a kind review like this one. Here's an
Speaker 4: example comes from Jackie Johnson Donner happens to be five
Speaker 4: stars and they say, buckle up, it's a long one.
Speaker 4: I had the opportunity to read an advanced copy. Oh no,
Speaker 4: they reviewed our.
Speaker 3: Book, actually reviews for the book or.
Speaker 4: For the book, So yeah, feel free to review our
Speaker 4: podcast definitely, But also if you've read the book, leave
Speaker 4: us a review of that, because we also talk about
Speaker 4: marketing tactics and how we can equip ourselves to make
Speaker 4: good spending decisions in the book.
Speaker 5: So here's an example.
Speaker 4: I had the opportunity to read an advanced copy of
Speaker 4: this book and it has already been incredibly eye opening
Speaker 4: and personally beneficial. Unlike traditional personal finance books that focus
Speaker 4: solely on saving more and spending less, this one takes
Speaker 4: a refreshing approach. The authors focus on aligning your spending
Speaker 4: with personal core values. The concept of determining what your
Speaker 4: values are, what you want to spend your money on,
Speaker 4: and planning to spend your money on the things that
Speaker 4: matter seems to seem so simple, but yet it's so
Speaker 4: impactful when I appreciate most of. What I appreciate most
Speaker 4: is their non judgmental tone. Gen and Jill walk you
Speaker 4: through the process step by step to reflect on where
Speaker 4: you spend money on and get you thinking about what
Speaker 4: you want to spend money on. Notice I didn't say
Speaker 4: that you should spend money on because there's no shaming
Speaker 4: or prescriptive advice here. It's filled with financial empowerment and
Speaker 4: I've noticed a substantial improvement By following advice from the book.
Speaker 4: Under the financial mentorship of Gen and Jill, I have
Speaker 4: reduced our spending by twenty percent this month. Their personal
Speaker 4: stories are so relatable and illustrate their lessons with honesty, curiosity,
Speaker 4: and intention. If you are searching for a practical thoughtful
Speaker 4: way to improve your finances without feeling over than guilty.
Speaker 4: This is a must read. Be sure to also check
Speaker 4: out for Gold Friends podcast too. It's filled with fun
Speaker 4: and insight. Wow, Jack Johnson Donner, thank.
Speaker 1: You, yes, thank you so much, Jackie. We have We've
Speaker 1: enjoyed making the show for almost seven years at this point,
Speaker 1: and we enjoyed writing this book so much to you know,
Speaker 1: help people discern marketing and their own impulses and make
Speaker 1: better spending decisions, not just the decision to not spend
Speaker 1: money because it's not sustainable. So if you have read
Speaker 1: the book, please leave us a review on Amazon or
Speaker 1: wherever you persased it. If you have not, had to
Speaker 1: buy what youlovebook dot com and get yourself a copy.
Speaker 5: Thank you and see you next time.
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric sirianni.
Speaker 5: Okay Jen.
Speaker 4: The other day, I was scrolling on my phone and
Speaker 4: I kid you not every single post, it had to
Speaker 4: have been twenty twenty five posts in a row. Every
Speaker 4: single one was an ad, like a very blatant ad
Speaker 4: where it wasn't even just some influencer trying to sell
Speaker 4: me something, which is still an ad, but just.
Speaker 5: I'm just like, this isn't even this isn't even fun anymore.
Speaker 4: It was very easy to then just like put my
Speaker 4: phone down and be like, all right, I'm doing something
Speaker 4: else because this is just ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I've noticed they've been putting more ads in
Speaker 1: a row. It is so social media is a blessing
Speaker 1: and a curse, right because it has such helpful, fantastic
Speaker 1: short form content and it is lovely, we love memes,
Speaker 1: but it is also full of advertising, and so so
Speaker 1: much of the solution Ocean centers around getting off your phone.
Speaker 1: But I think there is a lot to be said
Speaker 1: about conscious consumption of social media. So that's my two cents.
Speaker 4: What is the first ad as you scroll I'm opening
Speaker 4: up my phone? Mine is for a bank. I'm not
Speaker 4: even gonna mention the bank because they don't deserve your time, right.
Speaker 1: No, unless they've paid me. And again, we can bring
Speaker 1: this to you for free because we get paid by
Speaker 1: certain brands.
Speaker 5: Okay, a bank insurance.
Speaker 4: You know what's laughable to me is when I get
Speaker 4: ads for something after I've made a purchase.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing the run Run Disney just announced the oh.
Speaker 5: No, an ad that's working on her.
Speaker 1: It's it's native content. I knew they were making announcement
Speaker 1: for the Weinendeine theme today.
Speaker 3: I knew it.
Speaker 1: It was just the first thing that popped up. It's
Speaker 1: that's not even an ad, but.
Speaker 5: Walt Disney World.
Speaker 1: That's the second thing. Then the third is a Frugal
Speaker 1: Friends podcast post. It is a post of our latest
Speaker 1: episode that just came out. So now I know what
Speaker 1: that episode is because we record a month in advance
Speaker 1: and I have totally forgot. So yeah, it's great. I
Speaker 1: and then Lego Land, Florida is the next one because
Speaker 1: we used to have. Oh and then a brand that
Speaker 1: I was doing research on to see if they would
Speaker 1: want to sponsor the show.
Speaker 3: See that's really.
Speaker 1: Fun because some of my sponsors are so off the wall.
Speaker 1: Because I'm doing brand research and I'm definitely not. I mean,
Speaker 1: then I can see kind of what they do. I
Speaker 1: can scope it out early. Yeah, so it is interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, how curated it it is to have like it's
Speaker 4: a high yield savings account, like a bank that offers
Speaker 4: a high old savings account, insurance, a mental health ad.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm got a TV show about these Universal studios.
Speaker 3: They know I love Orlando.
Speaker 4: That is an investing app. Tell me you work in finance?
Speaker 4: About telling me you work in finance. Yeah, so okay.
Speaker 1: It's uh, you know a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: different things. But I think my biggest thing is I
Speaker 1: want to stop scrolling so much. I want to be
Speaker 1: less of a consumer and more of a creator. I
Speaker 1: think that is my goal because I believe in social media.
Speaker 1: I believe in its power, and I also know that
Speaker 1: it is a cesspool as well. So there's there's confliction
Speaker 1: within me.
Speaker 4: But you know what, we need to hold the tension.
Speaker 4: We can't only allow social media to be tem you
Speaker 4: halls right exactly, also need to be able to talk
Speaker 4: about what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: I need to be the change I want to see
Speaker 1: in the world exactly, And so should you not you, Joel,
Speaker 1: the person listening to this, I'll be the change.
Speaker 5: I'll change