WEBVTT - Esperanza Spalding 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:14.000 Pushkin. When Esperanza Spalding won Best New Artist at the 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.520 Grammys in twenty eleven, she made headlines for two reasons. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:20.640 One she was the first ever jazz musician to win 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.880 the award, and two she stole Best New Artist from 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:28.520 Justin Bieber. The believers are still pissed. Since that first 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.600 big win, Esperanza has won three more Grammys and released 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.720 seven studio albums, including twenty seventeen's Exposure, which was conceived, written, 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:40.480 and recorded entirely in seventy seven hours on Facebook Live. 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.080 In twenty eighteen, to released twelve Little Spells. It was 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:47.640 inspired by the Japanese healing art ray Ki, with each 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.240 song composed as a spell for a specific part of 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.239 the body. Looking at her body of work and how 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.080 she's evolved from a young, prodigious stand up bass player 0:00:56.120 --> 0:01:00.880 and jazz composer to an experimental, multimedia conceptual artist, it's 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:04.200 easy to see why Esperanza Spalding sees herself as more 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:07.920 than a jazz musician, but her improvisational approach to turning 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:12.399 abstract ideas into emotionally moving pieces of music pretty much 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.520 makes her the personification of jazz, whether she likes it 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:21.920 or not this is broken record liner notes for the 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:30.440 digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Esperanza sat with Bruce Heilom 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.360 and Brooklyn to talk about the instinctual way she makes music, 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.600 jamming with Joni Mitchell, and the opera she's writing with 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:41.039 the legendary Wayne Shorter that's set to be released next year. Wow, 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:45.520 this voice is really beautiful. It's got a good vibe 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.240 and it's huge. This is actually reminding me how much 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:51.680 I love to be in the studio. It's been about 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:53.640 a year, and I think that means it's time to 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:55.640 go back soon. You haven't been in a studio in 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.720 a year, and was for that. That was for twelve 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:03.000 Little Spells, for the four Bonus Spells. It's actually sixteen 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.720 Little Spells now because because of some of the finagling 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:13.000 that one must do when you're dancing through the music industry, 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:18.200 I wanted twelve and for there to be a second 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:23.040 wave and reason to talk about the project again. I 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:26.079 was asked and encouraged right for more songs, because apparently 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:31.240 I'm I've yet to grow into the awareness of what 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:36.280 it is to generate music as commodity. My first instinct 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.400 is already to figure out a way to just release 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:42.560 it big and around and wide. Um. So I wanted 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.799 to release the twelve Little Spells one every day at 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:51.359 twelve twelve leading up to my birthday, and I wanted 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.520 to just blast them out because I wanted the the 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.360 effect of the Spells to reach as many people as possible. Um. 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:02.280 But that's it. It's hard to capitalize on that approach. 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.880 So in collaboration with the label, we came up with 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.240 the idea, well, let's make former bonus Spells and then 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.760 there's a reason to go get the record. So now 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.960 we should explain twelve Little Spells, which was your last 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:21.359 full album. Yeah, they were twelve songs now sixteen, but 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:24.239 they were based on different parts of the body. Did 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.240 the concept come first for that or did the songs 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:31.639 come first? It came as a hit, almost like an 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:37.960 instruction manual. I can remember I was in transit. I 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:39.880 don't remember from where to where, but I know that 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.680 by the time I got home to my apartment, I 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.000 had written out the outline of the whole project that 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.920 it was twelve Little Spells and the title and what 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:51.080 the title was saying, which was an announcement of what 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.280 this work is as an interim piece before the next 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.680 big project. So the titles twelve little spells to tide 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:01.320 you over to the next full thing. Touch in my, Touch, 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.880 in mine, the longing deep down. You have to dance now, no, 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.840 all limbs are readying to rise, dancing the animal with others. 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:14.280 And it was a it's a sort of poem explanation 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.640 of what this project is until the next project, which 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:23.000 is about dancing and movement and dancing that the wild, untethered, 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:27.920 free forms of dance with structured presentation. Um. Yeah. So 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.680 by the time I got home, here were the song titles, 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:33.240 here were their effects on the body, and I had 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.359 my instruction manual. And then I spent a month and 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:42.480 some change just assembling that structure, assembling that entity from 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:46.120 the instruction manual. So you wrote all that on the subway, No, 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.600 I wrote it all in the castle in Italy. Okay, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:57.120 but m yeah, that was amazing. That was amazing. Every 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.240 morning I would be, um, you know, go for where 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.120 will you pick up your espresso in the morning if 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:04.640 you so desired? And they had me in the converted 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.039 pig pen because I didn't want to be in the cask, 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:09.640 because I figured it would be extremely haunted. So I 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.880 would go get my espresso and then walk around the 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.560 priffrey of the castle back towards my converted pig pen, 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.839 which is on another, you know, part of the grounds, 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.080 and I would pass Azar Nafisi almost every day, who 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:26.280 was working on her book, And just that process of witnessing, 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:30.479 you know, a master craftsman sitting and witnessing the development 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:34.400 of their piece page by page, you know, was the fuel, 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.360 part of the fuel I think for making this happen, 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.520 because you know, the creative process is abstract. It feels 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:45.120 sometimes like you're doing nothing. So it was so encouraging 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:48.880 and affirming to witness another person in that practice, accumulating 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.800 that body that they came to work on. Now there's 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:53.880 always the descriptions of you you were prodigy, or this 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:56.839 you were that. I would like to lean into the 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:02.960 microphone now and spell those myths that I was a 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.279 prodigy or anything like that. I wasn't a prodigy. I am. 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.800 I have a talent in music, and I found my 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:16.120 way early on. But I have seen prodigies, and I 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.840 know prodigies, and it's a thing. It's like it's like 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.719 a subset of the species, you know, and I just 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:27.680 I partly want to dispel that myth because I think 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:32.040 it it's misleading. You know, it makes it seem like 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:38.039 maybe there's something special or something different fundamentally about you know, 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.560 my makeup as an as an entity, as a humanoid, 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.480 and it's not true. You know, there are some folks 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:48.160 who are and they're exceedingly rare, and then there are 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:52.000 other folks who just figured out a way to get 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:56.520 a lot of practice in early on and it accumulates 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:58.920 and then you can do things that other ten year 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.080 olds can't do. But it's best of it because I 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.160 was a prodigy. It's because I I played a lot. 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:06.679 You know, I practice a lot. Well is that good? 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:10.080 Because you know prodigies and you know, being a prodigy 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:15.240 often is it's maladaptive. They don't. It's if you're great 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.880 at something when you're five, often you're doing the same 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.360 thing at thirty five. And people are you know, there's 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:24.440 always those those great classical musicians who are you know, 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:26.920 who are described as the fifty year old child prodigy. 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:31.200 You know, they can't kind of get past what they 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:35.480 did at a a certain age, right. And I the part 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:42.280 that I resonate with about that quote unquote prodigy part 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:45.440 is simply the part where nobody can explain why you 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.160 can do what you can do, you know, And I 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:52.160 think part of what sets a prodigy apart is that 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.120 for the same amount of time that their friend in 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:59.520 the music school puts in, this kid just gets more done. Somehow, somehow, 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.120 there's a to do more for reasons that nobody can explain. 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:06.120 And at a certain point, when you want to expand 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.160 past what it is you've become good at, but you 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:13.240 don't remember why you can do what you do, that 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:17.040 is intimidating and stressful it can be. And I can't 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.880 appreciate why you wouldn't you wouldn't lean into that territory. 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.920 And there are some aspects about you know, my practice 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:27.840 that I it's like abousing before the divination. There are 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.200 some aspects that I don't know. I don't know how 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.120 that happens or how it works. But when I try 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:35.480 to apply that to like a new medium, let's say, 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:40.480 like writing an opera doesn't work, then you discover like, hmm, okay, 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.240 there's a process here, there's a there's a skill set 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.160 that must be developed to yield the same results over here. 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.680 As I'm able to yield over there without having necessarily 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:54.040 mastered that skill set, you know, So just saying I 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:58.360 have compassion for the fifty year old child prodigies out there. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.160 What was your first experience of music then? What do 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:09.640 you remember? Well, it would be my mother singing in 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:16.200 the house and making up little songs about whatever was 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:20.080 happening in the moment. So she she had this one. 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.480 You don't need to cry because your mama is by 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:27.280 your mama who love you and will never never leave you. 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.600 You don't need to cry because your mama is by 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.640 you know. I don't know where that comes from, but she, 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.520 she would always have this sort of soundtrack happening to life. 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:40.000 There was a wake up song, there was a prepping 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:44.480 the meal song. And that is my first memory of music. 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:50.719 My first memory of music out there was hearing your 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.400 mom on my stage's neighborhood. Like I've said that so 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.320 many times in my life, but it was and hearing 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.079 your hearing your mom, hearing the box cello suite. I 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.200 don't know if it was aomara, was the box teller sueeze, 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:06.199 but by the way, he was a vehicle and on 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:12.920 mister Rodgers neighborhood, mister Rodgers neighbor which also the interesting 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:21.880 piece about that episode is after Yoma performed, they went 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:28.280 to make Believe Land, and in that episode, the next 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:35.040 thing that happened is Lady Amberlin was dressed as an 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:39.240 upright bass and the other woman character was playing an 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.640 upright bass. And I don't have a conscious memory of 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.560 seeing that. But that, again, was like the download that 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:51.640 all came at once, and then it's a humbling reckoning 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.000 of like, oh, I'm again just I'm just following the 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.320 programming that I didn't even realize I received, you know, 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:59.440 a five. So now was that just a memory or 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:04.440 on mister Rodgers Neighborhood that actually happened. I only know 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.680 that that happened because I've seen it since I don't 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.480 have a conscious memory of seeing that in the episode. 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.599 What I remember is hearing I didn't know it was 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.720 about tells at the time. I can remember the prickling 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:21.000 in the this um almost like pain, you know, such 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.480 a deep sensation of attraction to something that I felt 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:28.360 towards the music that Yoma was playing. No conscious memory 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:31.280 of seeing the basses. But later when I saw the episode, 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.560 I went, oh damn, I'm just I've just following the instructions. 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.000 You know that all came at the same time. Um, 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:39.679 those are my first memories of music. Well, you can 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.560 do worse than following, mister rogers omen I agree. I 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:47.439 think you did well. And then your first instrument was what, well, 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:51.160 it would have been violent. They didn't have any um, 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:56.600 half sized or quarter sized cellos at the program that 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:03.559 I first enter music through, so it was fortunately or 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:09.680 unfortunately violin and that yeah, unfortunately you didn't like the violin. 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:11.800 I didn't really like the violet. I like other people 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:15.040 playing the violin, but yeah, I was seeking that sound. 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.320 I was seeking what I heard. I wanted the cello, 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:20.520 and thank god, and then I just get past the 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:22.800 tell I want right up to the next floor, up 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.160 to the base. And then when did the bass start? 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:29.880 You know, I don't know if the bass has started yet. 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:37.160 It's such a immense territory and for all the technical 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:44.720 facility one can accumulate early on again serves a very 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:49.440 profound function in music. And I I think that the 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:56.000 older one gets, the more one matures, the better they 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.920 are at actually being a bass player. So I don't know, 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.600 I don't know if bass has begun yeah, when you 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:08.560 started playing. How much were you practicing? I don't remember really, 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.720 probably a lot, I don't. I don't remember those early days. 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:19.640 I just remember um playing by ear and suddenly hearing 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:25.160 this music that I was told was jazz and having 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:30.600 a very deep, again visceral reaction to whatever they were doing, 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.439 you know, having no understanding of what it was or 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:38.240 how it worked. Um, yeah, are you still that kind 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:42.280 of instinctual player or because this is what scares people 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:46.880 about jazz. It's incredibly complicated. It seems like endless scales 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:51.360 is all that theory? Do you know all that stuff? 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:58.360 You know some? Yeah? Yeah, and it never ends because 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.680 the in not because I don't feel authorized to speak 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:06.400 on behalf of the genre in anyway, because I would 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.800 say I'm a jazz singer when I need to be, 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:15.880 and I can play bass for the jazz musicians, but 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.560 the center piece, like the center of what it is 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:25.920 I do isn't really jazz because of that practice and 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.840 devotion that is required. You don't think you have it, 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:32.480 not in that way, not in that way as an instrumentalist, 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.600 which is fine. It's cool because I can still support 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.320 the instrumentalists who are in that devotional, devotional practice. But 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.400 that's how you started. You were you were known as 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:48.640 a jazz bassis, absolute best new artist I think, right right? Yeah, 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.760 And still I wonder what the parallel isn't writing? It's 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:57.400 like you can support, you can be a part of 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:03.120 something without actually being a devotee of that craft. Well, 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.600 most writing is all you mean writing music or writing, 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:09.680 I mean writing word. So what do you know? Because 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.600 if I go on YouTube, I see you playing with 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:17.920 Herbie Hancock and check Korea. Yeah, what are they? What 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:22.800 are you giving them? Then there's got to be more 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:27.840 technically sophisticated players are at least more theoretically sophisticated players 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:29.840 than you. You're doing this by instinct. What do they 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.840 get when I asked you to come and play with me? 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:40.160 What what am I getting? You're getting listening and lightspeed 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:48.480 response and some a dance floor for your dance. I'm 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:54.200 giving you a moving dance floor. And I have studied 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:58.160 some of the theory, just to say partially, I like 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:05.560 to rearticulate this because for any young aspiring instrumentalist listening, 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.120 I want to make sure that I'm speaking that truth 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.360 that to be a quote unquote jazz musician like, don't 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:19.720 listen to me. Listen to Scott Colly or you know, 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:24.240 Ben Williams, Christian McBride or Linda o or players who 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.880 if you if you want to have a queue into 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:30.240 the expression of the jazz pedagogy, listen to those bass players. 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.640 I'm doing something that's valuable and beautiful in works and supports, 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.680 but it's not really coming from that kind of devotional space. 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.760 It's very intuitive and very much in the presence, very 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:46.800 much something that evolves in relationship with players. You know, So, yes, 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:48.000 I can play with her, but I can play with 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:53.320 chick because I'm I'm becoming what is needed in that 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.600 moment with my technical facility to you know, come as 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.800 my voice, as my listening as my voice. It's almost 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:05.880 like an active listening with players like that. So are they? 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.360 Are they because you're a band leader as well. When 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.199 you're playing with players like that, are they kind of 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.239 setting the tone and then you're responding? Is it more 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:17.480 call response with them? Yeah, it's it's more like, well 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:21.639 with somebody like you know, Herbie Hancock or Jerry Allen. 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.760 They want to have the conversation that can only happen 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.359 with you in the room. It's not like, Okay, I 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.600 hear these ten songs, you happen to be the one here, 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.440 so yeah, come get in on this and make this 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:39.000 work for me. Especially with Herbie, especially with Jerry, it's 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.680 more like, oh, who are you? What do we sound 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.359 like together? And in that space it might kind of 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:49.360 be an advantage not be too tethered to a technical 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.639 or historical or pedagogical approach to making the music, because 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.200 then you're free to discover what's actually happening in real time, 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.960 which might not sound like anything that that player did before. 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.800 It's going to have their character ristic. But that is 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.280 my superpower, you know, of being president, going like whoa 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.840 what what is this? Actually? Right now? Let's make it 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.240 and it won't probably happen again. And that was that, 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.439 You know, do you have to do You have to 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:17.240 make eye contact with a player. To do that, you 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.280 have to see what he's doing just here? Really, could 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.880 you do it blindfolded? Yeah? Of course really? Yeah, of course. 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:25.520 I don't look. I don't look at the instrument I 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.639 want to play. No, I don't mean your instrument. I 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.320 mean I mean I mean the combination of like if 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.240 if you're playing with you know Wayne Shorter here be 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:37.600 hancocked there. Yeah, that's a that's a great day. I 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.840 wish that would happen more. But you know, string quartets, 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:43.879 the players kind of have to see each other, they 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.639 have to see the cues. I'm wondering how important is 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:53.120 that in when you're playing in a jazz combo. Well, 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:57.840 I'm thinking of I'm thinking of Wayne's quartet. They are 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:02.840 very much connected with each other, looking at each other. 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.119 But I am positive they could do everything they do 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:11.359 blindfolded because they're they're co composing a scene. You know, 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:18.040 It's like, I'm sure actors could have a perfectly potent 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:24.719 and coherent improvised scene blindfolded because you're you're responding to 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:29.159 the reality of emotional response. You're responding to what comes 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.280 at you, and eventually a momentum of the scene is 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.239 generated and that is propelling you forward as much as 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.719 you're creating it as you go. You know, that mode 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:44.320 of performance, co composition improvisation is like that. Okay, next 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.320 time you're with Herbie Hancock, I want you to blindfold 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.320 yourself and see see how it comes. I don't I 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.960 wouldn't never ask him to do that, but I'll think 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:52.960 I'll just I'll hold it in the space and see 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.960 what happens if I don't look. I mean, I remember 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.000 dancing tango a little bit when I was a teammate, 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.760 and you know, there's certain fundamentals that you learn, and 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:10.040 it's an improvisational dance form, right Obviously, when you're dancing 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:16.199 with a phenomenal dancer, everything just kind of works, you know. 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.320 And I remember that experience of being very inexperienced and 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:22.520 getting on the dance floor and just be like, oh damn, 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:24.960 I can do I'm good. Shoot everything. I'm twisting and 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.560 turning and kicking all kinds of stuff, and then you 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:29.400 go dance with the next partner and it's like fuck. 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:32.320 You know, it's like a fumble, looks like a like 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:37.400 a civil ware drawer without a divider, you know. So 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.360 there's also something to be said for the potency of 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:45.280 the master, you know that partially just by playing with 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:49.399 somebody like that, the the immensity of their musicianship and 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:53.200 ability to make everything work kind of heightens your own 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:57.439 capacity and shows what is possible. We'll be back with 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:04.760 more from Esperanza Spalding after the break. We're back with 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:09.240 more from Esperanza Spalding. What's it like working with Wayne Shorter? 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.720 You talked about his writing before, Ye, what's it like 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:18.880 playing with him? We've actually only played a few times, 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:25.080 and it felt like visiting another planet. It truly felt 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:30.800 like we've been living on one musical planet your whole life, 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.520 seeing different lands and territories and cities and towns and 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:43.919 ruralities and municipalities, and then you step onto what you 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:49.200 think is just another land. You know, music starts, Okay, 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:51.600 here we are, and all of a sudden you recognize, like, no, 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:55.960 all of this is different. All of this is extraterrestrial, 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.520 all of this is expansive. All of this is just 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:04.160 more and different and shaped like the Earth. And maybe 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:11.719 the gravity is similar, but it's not. He is so 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:22.760 incredibly adept at connecting seemingly disparit ideas in a room, 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:28.119 in a conversation, and musically that is, it's like it 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.840 feels like you have to start listening at light speed 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:33.840 to be able to connect what just came over there 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:38.840 with what's happening over there. That is nebulous. I apologize 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:44.160 it's hard to describe it, but is it scary playing 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:51.240 with someone like that? Yeah? Sure, yeah, very much. So, Yeah, 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:54.320 And why is it scary? Why is it scary? What 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:57.080 does scary? I mean in that context? Is it scary? 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:02.399 It's scary in a sense of oh damn, can I 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:06.600 can I hang? Can I help? Can I woo? Can 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:10.480 I feel free? What is that of the most that 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:15.439 I can bring into the space? Will it have a place? 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:18.720 Will it work? You know? You know, it's like sitting 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:22.320 at a table and a conversations already happening, and you're like, 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:25.040 I don't know what anybody here is talking about, but 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:28.359 I'm being asked to come and speak. So it's something 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:32.080 about having the trust that your life is enough, that 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:38.440 what you've lived endows you with insight and perspective and presence, 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:40.840 and that the other people at the table actually want 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:44.000 to talk with you. So it's not about I'm able 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:46.119 to refer to the things that you all have studied 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:49.000 and know. It's something about having the confidence that at 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:51.879 any point in time we can find like a common 0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:54.879 space to converse. Do you always find do you always 0:23:54.880 --> 0:23:56.880 feel confident when you're playing with someone like that you 0:23:56.960 --> 0:23:59.800 can find it? You ever feel nervous, Like this guy's 0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:02.960 talk talking about something I can't really of course we 0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:05.479 don't we all. I mean hopefully that's how you know 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:12.000 you're expanding and having new tastes and new experiences. You know. 0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:13.879 It's not always feel equipped like I'm gonna come in 0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:17.119 and slay. I don't mean that, but are there times 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:19.560 you're playing with someone I'm gonna use Wayne Shorter and 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:22.760 you just feel like, man, I'm just disappointing here. I'm 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:26.720 not contributing. No, Well, listening is contributing. I mean, that's 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:30.879 so much of the gift of somebody who's so full, 0:24:31.320 --> 0:24:34.520 like a Wayne Shorter, just hanging out with him at 0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:38.359 the house. I mean just just listening is becomes dialogue, 0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:43.800 you know, and becomes dynamic, um, because we we need 0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:46.720 to be heard too, you know. For all that poetry 0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:54.760 and wisdom and philosophy, philosophical playmaking that one can do, 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:58.720 it's not fun when you're just by yourself in the house, right. 0:24:59.119 --> 0:25:01.240 I think he's really gonna and a musing himself. But 0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:05.479 um yeah, that's that's valuable. That's what I mean by 0:25:05.520 --> 0:25:10.440 being the moving dance floor. It is. It's valuable. It's valuable. Um. 0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:15.520 So a very different artist did you like and I'd 0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:19.280 like to know more about her influence is Joni Mitchell. Oh, Now, 0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:21.800 Joni Mitchell is interesting to me because she has she 0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:25.760 seems to have two audiences. Everybody likes everybody knows Big 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:29.760 Yellow Taxi and both sides now and people love her 0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:32.639 and revere for being part of a generation. But jazz 0:25:32.680 --> 0:25:36.880 people really like her. What is it you're hearing in her? 0:25:36.960 --> 0:25:48.280 What inspires you? I mean, jazz people like creative seeking music. 0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:52.080 You know, in general, all the jazz people that I 0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:57.200 know don't just listen to jazz music. They we they 0:25:57.760 --> 0:26:05.280 listen to move that seems to be reching and finding 0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:08.960 new combinations of the sounds that we're all working with 0:26:09.000 --> 0:26:15.240 out here essentially, So what is it about her music 0:26:15.359 --> 0:26:20.879 that what are you hearing there? I think if I 0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:23.600 actually try to articulate it, it's going to be a lie. 0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:29.800 Because beyond the obvious that points that we all are 0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:34.680 drawn to, like the poetic imagery and the unexpected way 0:26:34.720 --> 0:26:39.439 that she illuminates a scene and brings us into a 0:26:39.480 --> 0:26:43.520 place in a space, and an emotional understanding of a 0:26:43.640 --> 0:26:50.560 person or a relationship, there's just some there's something magical 0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:55.240 and magnetic which doesn't tell you anything, but I the 0:26:55.359 --> 0:27:04.159