1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: Pushkin. When Esperanza Spalding won Best New Artist at the 2 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: Grammys in twenty eleven, she made headlines for two reasons. 3 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: One she was the first ever jazz musician to win 4 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: the award, and two she stole Best New Artist from 5 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: Justin Bieber. The believers are still pissed. Since that first 6 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: big win, Esperanza has won three more Grammys and released 7 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: seven studio albums, including twenty seventeen's Exposure, which was conceived, written, 8 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 1: and recorded entirely in seventy seven hours on Facebook Live. 9 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, to released twelve Little Spells. It was 10 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: inspired by the Japanese healing art ray Ki, with each 11 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: song composed as a spell for a specific part of 12 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: the body. Looking at her body of work and how 13 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: she's evolved from a young, prodigious stand up bass player 14 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: and jazz composer to an experimental, multimedia conceptual artist, it's 15 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: easy to see why Esperanza Spalding sees herself as more 16 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: than a jazz musician, but her improvisational approach to turning 17 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: abstract ideas into emotionally moving pieces of music pretty much 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: makes her the personification of jazz, whether she likes it 19 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: or not this is broken record liner notes for the 20 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Esperanza sat with Bruce Heilom 21 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: and Brooklyn to talk about the instinctual way she makes music, 22 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: jamming with Joni Mitchell, and the opera she's writing with 23 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: the legendary Wayne Shorter that's set to be released next year. Wow, 24 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: this voice is really beautiful. It's got a good vibe 25 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: and it's huge. This is actually reminding me how much 26 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: I love to be in the studio. It's been about 27 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: a year, and I think that means it's time to 28 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: go back soon. You haven't been in a studio in 29 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: a year, and was for that. That was for twelve 30 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: Little Spells, for the four Bonus Spells. It's actually sixteen 31 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: Little Spells now because because of some of the finagling 32 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: that one must do when you're dancing through the music industry, 33 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: I wanted twelve and for there to be a second 34 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: wave and reason to talk about the project again. I 35 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: was asked and encouraged right for more songs, because apparently 36 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: I'm I've yet to grow into the awareness of what 37 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: it is to generate music as commodity. My first instinct 38 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: is already to figure out a way to just release 39 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: it big and around and wide. Um. So I wanted 40 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: to release the twelve Little Spells one every day at 41 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: twelve twelve leading up to my birthday, and I wanted 42 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: to just blast them out because I wanted the the 43 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: effect of the Spells to reach as many people as possible. Um. 44 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: But that's it. It's hard to capitalize on that approach. 45 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: So in collaboration with the label, we came up with 46 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: the idea, well, let's make former bonus Spells and then 47 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: there's a reason to go get the record. So now 48 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: we should explain twelve Little Spells, which was your last 49 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: full album. Yeah, they were twelve songs now sixteen, but 50 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 1: they were based on different parts of the body. Did 51 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: the concept come first for that or did the songs 52 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: come first? It came as a hit, almost like an 53 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: instruction manual. I can remember I was in transit. I 54 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: don't remember from where to where, but I know that 55 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: by the time I got home to my apartment, I 56 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: had written out the outline of the whole project that 57 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: it was twelve Little Spells and the title and what 58 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: the title was saying, which was an announcement of what 59 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: this work is as an interim piece before the next 60 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: big project. So the titles twelve little spells to tide 61 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: you over to the next full thing. Touch in my, Touch, 62 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: in mine, the longing deep down. You have to dance now, no, 63 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: all limbs are readying to rise, dancing the animal with others. 64 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: And it was a it's a sort of poem explanation 65 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: of what this project is until the next project, which 66 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: is about dancing and movement and dancing that the wild, untethered, 67 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: free forms of dance with structured presentation. Um. Yeah. So 68 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: by the time I got home, here were the song titles, 69 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: here were their effects on the body, and I had 70 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 1: my instruction manual. And then I spent a month and 71 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: some change just assembling that structure, assembling that entity from 72 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: the instruction manual. So you wrote all that on the subway, No, 73 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: I wrote it all in the castle in Italy. Okay, 74 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: but m yeah, that was amazing. That was amazing. Every 75 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: morning I would be, um, you know, go for where 76 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: will you pick up your espresso in the morning if 77 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: you so desired? And they had me in the converted 78 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: pig pen because I didn't want to be in the cask, 79 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: because I figured it would be extremely haunted. So I 80 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: would go get my espresso and then walk around the 81 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: priffrey of the castle back towards my converted pig pen, 82 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: which is on another, you know, part of the grounds, 83 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: and I would pass Azar Nafisi almost every day, who 84 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: was working on her book, And just that process of witnessing, 85 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 1: you know, a master craftsman sitting and witnessing the development 86 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: of their piece page by page, you know, was the fuel, 87 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: part of the fuel I think for making this happen, 88 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: because you know, the creative process is abstract. It feels 89 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: sometimes like you're doing nothing. So it was so encouraging 90 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: and affirming to witness another person in that practice, accumulating 91 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: that body that they came to work on. Now there's 92 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: always the descriptions of you you were prodigy, or this 93 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: you were that. I would like to lean into the 94 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: microphone now and spell those myths that I was a 95 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: prodigy or anything like that. I wasn't a prodigy. I am. 96 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: I have a talent in music, and I found my 97 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: way early on. But I have seen prodigies, and I 98 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: know prodigies, and it's a thing. It's like it's like 99 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: a subset of the species, you know, and I just 100 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: I partly want to dispel that myth because I think 101 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: it it's misleading. You know, it makes it seem like 102 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: maybe there's something special or something different fundamentally about you know, 103 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: my makeup as an as an entity, as a humanoid, 104 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: and it's not true. You know, there are some folks 105 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: who are and they're exceedingly rare, and then there are 106 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: other folks who just figured out a way to get 107 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: a lot of practice in early on and it accumulates 108 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: and then you can do things that other ten year 109 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: olds can't do. But it's best of it because I 110 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: was a prodigy. It's because I I played a lot. 111 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,679 Speaker 1: You know, I practice a lot. Well is that good? 112 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: Because you know prodigies and you know, being a prodigy 113 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: often is it's maladaptive. They don't. It's if you're great 114 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: at something when you're five, often you're doing the same 115 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: thing at thirty five. And people are you know, there's 116 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: always those those great classical musicians who are you know, 117 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: who are described as the fifty year old child prodigy. 118 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: You know, they can't kind of get past what they 119 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: did at a a certain age, right. And I the part 120 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: that I resonate with about that quote unquote prodigy part 121 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: is simply the part where nobody can explain why you 122 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: can do what you can do, you know, And I 123 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: think part of what sets a prodigy apart is that 124 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: for the same amount of time that their friend in 125 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: the music school puts in, this kid just gets more done. Somehow, somehow, 126 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: there's a to do more for reasons that nobody can explain. 127 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: And at a certain point, when you want to expand 128 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: past what it is you've become good at, but you 129 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: don't remember why you can do what you do, that 130 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: is intimidating and stressful it can be. And I can't 131 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: appreciate why you wouldn't you wouldn't lean into that territory. 132 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: And there are some aspects about you know, my practice 133 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: that I it's like abousing before the divination. There are 134 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: some aspects that I don't know. I don't know how 135 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: that happens or how it works. But when I try 136 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: to apply that to like a new medium, let's say, 137 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: like writing an opera doesn't work, then you discover like, hmm, okay, 138 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: there's a process here, there's a there's a skill set 139 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: that must be developed to yield the same results over here. 140 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: As I'm able to yield over there without having necessarily 141 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: mastered that skill set, you know, So just saying I 142 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: have compassion for the fifty year old child prodigies out there. 143 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: What was your first experience of music then? What do 144 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: you remember? Well, it would be my mother singing in 145 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: the house and making up little songs about whatever was 146 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: happening in the moment. So she she had this one. 147 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: You don't need to cry because your mama is by 148 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: your mama who love you and will never never leave you. 149 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: You don't need to cry because your mama is by 150 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: you know. I don't know where that comes from, but she, 151 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: she would always have this sort of soundtrack happening to life. 152 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: There was a wake up song, there was a prepping 153 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: the meal song. And that is my first memory of music. 154 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 1: My first memory of music out there was hearing your 155 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: mom on my stage's neighborhood. Like I've said that so 156 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: many times in my life, but it was and hearing 157 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 1: your hearing your mom, hearing the box cello suite. I 158 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: don't know if it was aomara, was the box teller sueeze, 159 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 1: but by the way, he was a vehicle and on 160 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: mister Rodgers neighborhood, mister Rodgers neighbor which also the interesting 161 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: piece about that episode is after Yoma performed, they went 162 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: to make Believe Land, and in that episode, the next 163 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: thing that happened is Lady Amberlin was dressed as an 164 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: upright bass and the other woman character was playing an 165 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: upright bass. And I don't have a conscious memory of 166 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: seeing that. But that, again, was like the download that 167 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: all came at once, and then it's a humbling reckoning 168 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: of like, oh, I'm again just I'm just following the 169 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: programming that I didn't even realize I received, you know, 170 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: a five. So now was that just a memory or 171 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: on mister Rodgers Neighborhood that actually happened. I only know 172 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: that that happened because I've seen it since I don't 173 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: have a conscious memory of seeing that in the episode. 174 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,599 Speaker 1: What I remember is hearing I didn't know it was 175 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: about tells at the time. I can remember the prickling 176 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: in the this um almost like pain, you know, such 177 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: a deep sensation of attraction to something that I felt 178 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: towards the music that Yoma was playing. No conscious memory 179 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: of seeing the basses. But later when I saw the episode, 180 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: I went, oh damn, I'm just I've just following the instructions. 181 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: You know that all came at the same time. Um, 182 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: those are my first memories of music. Well, you can 183 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: do worse than following, mister rogers omen I agree. I 184 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 1: think you did well. And then your first instrument was what, well, 185 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: it would have been violent. They didn't have any um, 186 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: half sized or quarter sized cellos at the program that 187 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 1: I first enter music through, so it was fortunately or 188 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: unfortunately violin and that yeah, unfortunately you didn't like the violin. 189 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: I didn't really like the violet. I like other people 190 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: playing the violin, but yeah, I was seeking that sound. 191 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: I was seeking what I heard. I wanted the cello, 192 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: and thank god, and then I just get past the 193 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: tell I want right up to the next floor, up 194 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: to the base. And then when did the bass start? 195 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if the bass has started yet. 196 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: It's such a immense territory and for all the technical 197 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: facility one can accumulate early on again serves a very 198 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: profound function in music. And I I think that the 199 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: older one gets, the more one matures, the better they 200 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: are at actually being a bass player. So I don't know, 201 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if bass has begun yeah, when you 202 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: started playing. How much were you practicing? I don't remember really, 203 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: probably a lot, I don't. I don't remember those early days. 204 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: I just remember um playing by ear and suddenly hearing 205 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: this music that I was told was jazz and having 206 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: a very deep, again visceral reaction to whatever they were doing, 207 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 1: you know, having no understanding of what it was or 208 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: how it worked. Um, yeah, are you still that kind 209 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: of instinctual player or because this is what scares people 210 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: about jazz. It's incredibly complicated. It seems like endless scales 211 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: is all that theory? Do you know all that stuff? 212 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: You know some? Yeah? Yeah, and it never ends because 213 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: the in not because I don't feel authorized to speak 214 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: on behalf of the genre in anyway, because I would 215 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: say I'm a jazz singer when I need to be, 216 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: and I can play bass for the jazz musicians, but 217 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: the center piece, like the center of what it is 218 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: I do isn't really jazz because of that practice and 219 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: devotion that is required. You don't think you have it, 220 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: not in that way, not in that way as an instrumentalist, 221 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: which is fine. It's cool because I can still support 222 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: the instrumentalists who are in that devotional, devotional practice. But 223 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: that's how you started. You were you were known as 224 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: a jazz bassis, absolute best new artist I think, right right? Yeah, 225 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: And still I wonder what the parallel isn't writing? It's 226 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: like you can support, you can be a part of 227 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: something without actually being a devotee of that craft. Well, 228 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: most writing is all you mean writing music or writing, 229 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: I mean writing word. So what do you know? Because 230 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: if I go on YouTube, I see you playing with 231 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: Herbie Hancock and check Korea. Yeah, what are they? What 232 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: are you giving them? Then there's got to be more 233 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: technically sophisticated players are at least more theoretically sophisticated players 234 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: than you. You're doing this by instinct. What do they 235 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: get when I asked you to come and play with me? 236 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: What what am I getting? You're getting listening and lightspeed 237 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: response and some a dance floor for your dance. I'm 238 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: giving you a moving dance floor. And I have studied 239 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: some of the theory, just to say partially, I like 240 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: to rearticulate this because for any young aspiring instrumentalist listening, 241 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: I want to make sure that I'm speaking that truth 242 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: that to be a quote unquote jazz musician like, don't 243 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: listen to me. Listen to Scott Colly or you know, 244 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: Ben Williams, Christian McBride or Linda o or players who 245 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: if you if you want to have a queue into 246 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: the expression of the jazz pedagogy, listen to those bass players. 247 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: I'm doing something that's valuable and beautiful in works and supports, 248 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: but it's not really coming from that kind of devotional space. 249 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: It's very intuitive and very much in the presence, very 250 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: much something that evolves in relationship with players. You know, So, yes, 251 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: I can play with her, but I can play with 252 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: chick because I'm I'm becoming what is needed in that 253 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: moment with my technical facility to you know, come as 254 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: my voice, as my listening as my voice. It's almost 255 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: like an active listening with players like that. So are they? 256 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: Are they because you're a band leader as well. When 257 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 1: you're playing with players like that, are they kind of 258 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,239 Speaker 1: setting the tone and then you're responding? Is it more 259 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: call response with them? Yeah, it's it's more like, well 260 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: with somebody like you know, Herbie Hancock or Jerry Allen. 261 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: They want to have the conversation that can only happen 262 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: with you in the room. It's not like, Okay, I 263 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: hear these ten songs, you happen to be the one here, 264 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: so yeah, come get in on this and make this 265 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: work for me. Especially with Herbie, especially with Jerry, it's 266 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: more like, oh, who are you? What do we sound 267 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: like together? And in that space it might kind of 268 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 1: be an advantage not be too tethered to a technical 269 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: or historical or pedagogical approach to making the music, because 270 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: then you're free to discover what's actually happening in real time, 271 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: which might not sound like anything that that player did before. 272 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: It's going to have their character ristic. But that is 273 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: my superpower, you know, of being president, going like whoa 274 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: what what is this? Actually? Right now? Let's make it 275 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: and it won't probably happen again. And that was that, 276 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: You know, do you have to do You have to 277 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: make eye contact with a player. To do that, you 278 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: have to see what he's doing just here? Really, could 279 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 1: you do it blindfolded? Yeah? Of course really? Yeah, of course. 280 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: I don't look. I don't look at the instrument I 281 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: want to play. No, I don't mean your instrument. I 282 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: mean I mean I mean the combination of like if 283 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: if you're playing with you know Wayne Shorter here be 284 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: hancocked there. Yeah, that's a that's a great day. I 285 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: wish that would happen more. But you know, string quartets, 286 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: the players kind of have to see each other, they 287 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: have to see the cues. I'm wondering how important is 288 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 1: that in when you're playing in a jazz combo. Well, 289 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: I'm thinking of I'm thinking of Wayne's quartet. They are 290 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: very much connected with each other, looking at each other. 291 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: But I am positive they could do everything they do 292 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: blindfolded because they're they're co composing a scene. You know, 293 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: It's like, I'm sure actors could have a perfectly potent 294 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:24,719 Speaker 1: and coherent improvised scene blindfolded because you're you're responding to 295 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: the reality of emotional response. You're responding to what comes 296 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: at you, and eventually a momentum of the scene is 297 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,239 Speaker 1: generated and that is propelling you forward as much as 298 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,719 Speaker 1: you're creating it as you go. You know, that mode 299 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: of performance, co composition improvisation is like that. Okay, next 300 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: time you're with Herbie Hancock, I want you to blindfold 301 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: yourself and see see how it comes. I don't I 302 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't never ask him to do that, but I'll think 303 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: I'll just I'll hold it in the space and see 304 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: what happens if I don't look. I mean, I remember 305 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: dancing tango a little bit when I was a teammate, 306 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: and you know, there's certain fundamentals that you learn, and 307 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: it's an improvisational dance form, right Obviously, when you're dancing 308 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: with a phenomenal dancer, everything just kind of works, you know. 309 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: And I remember that experience of being very inexperienced and 310 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: getting on the dance floor and just be like, oh damn, 311 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: I can do I'm good. Shoot everything. I'm twisting and 312 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: turning and kicking all kinds of stuff, and then you 313 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: go dance with the next partner and it's like fuck. 314 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's like a fumble, looks like a like 315 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 1: a civil ware drawer without a divider, you know. So 316 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 1: there's also something to be said for the potency of 317 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: the master, you know that partially just by playing with 318 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: somebody like that, the the immensity of their musicianship and 319 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: ability to make everything work kind of heightens your own 320 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 1: capacity and shows what is possible. We'll be back with 321 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: more from Esperanza Spalding after the break. We're back with 322 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: more from Esperanza Spalding. What's it like working with Wayne Shorter? 323 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: You talked about his writing before, Ye, what's it like 324 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 1: playing with him? We've actually only played a few times, 325 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: and it felt like visiting another planet. It truly felt 326 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: like we've been living on one musical planet your whole life, 327 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: seeing different lands and territories and cities and towns and 328 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 1: ruralities and municipalities, and then you step onto what you 329 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: think is just another land. You know, music starts, Okay, 330 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: here we are, and all of a sudden you recognize, like, no, 331 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: all of this is different. All of this is extraterrestrial, 332 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: all of this is expansive. All of this is just 333 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: more and different and shaped like the Earth. And maybe 334 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:11,719 Speaker 1: the gravity is similar, but it's not. He is so 335 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: incredibly adept at connecting seemingly disparit ideas in a room, 336 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: in a conversation, and musically that is, it's like it 337 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: feels like you have to start listening at light speed 338 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: to be able to connect what just came over there 339 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: with what's happening over there. That is nebulous. I apologize 340 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: it's hard to describe it, but is it scary playing 341 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: with someone like that? Yeah? Sure, yeah, very much. So, Yeah, 342 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: And why is it scary? Why is it scary? What 343 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: does scary? I mean in that context? Is it scary? 344 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: It's scary in a sense of oh damn, can I 345 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: can I hang? Can I help? Can I woo? Can 346 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: I feel free? What is that of the most that 347 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: I can bring into the space? Will it have a place? 348 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: Will it work? You know? You know, it's like sitting 349 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: at a table and a conversations already happening, and you're like, 350 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what anybody here is talking about, but 351 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: I'm being asked to come and speak. So it's something 352 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: about having the trust that your life is enough, that 353 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: what you've lived endows you with insight and perspective and presence, 354 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: and that the other people at the table actually want 355 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: to talk with you. So it's not about I'm able 356 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: to refer to the things that you all have studied 357 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: and know. It's something about having the confidence that at 358 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: any point in time we can find like a common 359 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: space to converse. Do you always find do you always 360 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: feel confident when you're playing with someone like that you 361 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: can find it? You ever feel nervous, Like this guy's 362 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: talk talking about something I can't really of course we 363 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,479 Speaker 1: don't we all. I mean hopefully that's how you know 364 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: you're expanding and having new tastes and new experiences. You know. 365 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: It's not always feel equipped like I'm gonna come in 366 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: and slay. I don't mean that, but are there times 367 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: you're playing with someone I'm gonna use Wayne Shorter and 368 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: you just feel like, man, I'm just disappointing here. I'm 369 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: not contributing. No, Well, listening is contributing. I mean, that's 370 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: so much of the gift of somebody who's so full, 371 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: like a Wayne Shorter, just hanging out with him at 372 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 1: the house. I mean just just listening is becomes dialogue, 373 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: you know, and becomes dynamic, um, because we we need 374 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: to be heard too, you know. For all that poetry 375 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: and wisdom and philosophy, philosophical playmaking that one can do, 376 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: it's not fun when you're just by yourself in the house, right. 377 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: I think he's really gonna and a musing himself. But 378 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,479 Speaker 1: um yeah, that's that's valuable. That's what I mean by 379 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: being the moving dance floor. It is. It's valuable. It's valuable. Um. 380 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: So a very different artist did you like and I'd 381 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: like to know more about her influence is Joni Mitchell. Oh, Now, 382 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell is interesting to me because she has she 383 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: seems to have two audiences. Everybody likes everybody knows Big 384 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: Yellow Taxi and both sides now and people love her 385 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: and revere for being part of a generation. But jazz 386 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: people really like her. What is it you're hearing in her? 387 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: What inspires you? I mean, jazz people like creative seeking music. 388 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: You know, in general, all the jazz people that I 389 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: know don't just listen to jazz music. They we they 390 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: listen to move that seems to be reching and finding 391 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: new combinations of the sounds that we're all working with 392 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: out here essentially, So what is it about her music 393 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: that what are you hearing there? I think if I 394 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: actually try to articulate it, it's going to be a lie. 395 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: Because beyond the obvious that points that we all are 396 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: drawn to, like the poetic imagery and the unexpected way 397 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: that she illuminates a scene and brings us into a 398 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: place in a space, and an emotional understanding of a 399 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: person or a relationship, there's just some there's something magical 400 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: and magnetic which doesn't tell you anything, but I the 401 00:26:55,359 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: way where I feel the draw. I can't honestly articulate. Um. 402 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: I think part of it is the attraction to somebody 403 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: showing possibility that's so far beyond anything that's been revealed 404 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: in that genre or mode of playing before, you know, 405 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: as a quote unquote folk musician or as a poetter, 406 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: as a lyricist. It's like, you know, watching I can't 407 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: explain it. I should say, when I even said her name, 408 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: you sort of, yeah, put your hand up to your 409 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: heart like you're slightly stricken. And that's the that's the 410 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: that's the Yeah, that's the mystery, you know, that's the mystery. 411 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: You can hear strands of the sort of thing she 412 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: does in I think particularly your the Emily album. Okay, cool, 413 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: that's when I discover her music. Was that right? Okay? 414 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: Have you ever met her? Yeah? For sure. I jammed 415 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: at her house a few times, Okay this year last year. 416 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 1: Telling that story now, well, I I say, I very 417 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:18,239 Speaker 1: surreal experience. Actually back up, tell us that story. How 418 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 1: you how you ended up there? Who was there? Well, 419 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: the first time that I went to her house, I 420 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: went to her house because um we okay, I had 421 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: to back up a step further. Last year, I moved 422 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: to la for seven months to be near Wayne and 423 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: to be on the ground moving forward the development this opera, 424 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: because I felt like it had gotten stagnant somehow, you know, 425 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: just the logistics of work, shopping in and getting it 426 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: off of the page and out of the speculative into 427 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: the real, and I thought I need to just go there. 428 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: You know, Wayne was having some really intense health issues, 429 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: and I wanted him to feel like this thing is 430 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: really happening, like we're doing this, we're doing this. So 431 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: that turned into some very inventive approaches to making workshops happen, 432 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: Orchestral workshops happened, scene workshops happen. At a time when 433 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: he couldn't physically write, he was suffering from a metabolic tremor, 434 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: and so we had to figure out a way to 435 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: get what he had written up into an orchestra. And 436 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: I thought that the most invigorating thing for him would 437 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: be to actually feel coming back at him what he 438 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: had written, so that it would feel like an opera 439 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: is really happening here. So we're doing those every week, 440 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: every two weeks, and at some point it came up, well, Gosh, 441 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: Joni heard that they're doing Joni Mitchell heard that you're 442 00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: doing this and wish there that she could see it. 443 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: But you know, it's hard for her to leave the 444 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: house with blah blah blah. And I don't know whose 445 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: idea it was. I feel like it was her assistance. 446 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: So why don't we have the rehearsal at at Jonie's house? 447 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: So we did. We took us role in the opera, 448 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: and I mean she wanted to hear it when was 449 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: working on and thought it was cool. So she opened 450 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: her home to us. So we brought a piano player 451 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: and about five singers and a small little orchestra, probably 452 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: eight players, and we crammed into her music room and 453 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: she sat next to Wayne and I sat next to Wayne, 454 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: and Frank Gary, who's working on the set, who will 455 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: be making the sets, also came over. And it was 456 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: it was just a surreal moment in time that I 457 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: actually forgot about until you just said it, because it 458 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: was so surreal. It didn't seem like a part of 459 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: this plane, you know, because those I would say, those 460 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: are two of my favorite creators of all time, you know, 461 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: And yeah, a lot can be said about the moment. Partially, 462 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: it was surreal because I was so um dissatisfied with 463 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: the libretto at that particular moment, I was just cringing 464 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: that like the master of words was there hearing my 465 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: like unfinished words. It's so ridiculous, Um, but yeah, I was. 466 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: I was biting my nails. You know for sure. The 467 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: whole time was that the first time you'd met her? No, 468 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: I met a few times before, but I didn't stick, 469 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, because I was just drooling and you know, 470 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: so this time not forming sentence. I was still dreaming, 471 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: drooling and forming sentences. But she said she liked my 472 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: my life force suit and that as life force it does, 473 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: and that really looked at my spirits. Yeah, that did 474 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: you design that? Of course? Yeah. I wanted to, um, 475 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: stay in touch with the Yeah, the focal point of 476 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: my work. I'm seeking ways to translate the Pope. I'm 477 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: seeking ways to bring us into resonance with our unique 478 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: and abundant life force energy. And I also wanted a 479 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: break from worrying about what to wear at events or 480 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: just in the street or anywhere. And I knew that 481 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: it was going to be a year of hard work, 482 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: so I made a work suit for myself. I just 483 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: said so that's all you wear. Yeah, that's all I wear. 484 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: How many of those do you have? Eleven twelve? You're 485 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: like a superhero. You just get in the constant every day. 486 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: That's the that's the goal. That's the goal. Be a superhero. Yeah. Yeah, 487 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: my version of it be a super me. You know. Um, 488 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: so what did you? I'm interested? What did Jone? I've 489 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: never met Johnny Mitchell? Oh you will, I would love to. Yeah, 490 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: we're both Canadian after all. Uh huh? Facts? What did 491 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: she say to you when when she heard what you 492 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: were doing? Mom? I don't remember. She said all kinds 493 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: of things. It was it was out of body. It 494 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: was out of body. But later I did play some 495 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: jam sessions that I got to play bass for her, 496 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: and I got to play an arrangement for her of 497 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: the Wolf that lives in Lindsay and she dug that, 498 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: so did she? Was she singing when you were playing? No, 499 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: I just perform. Yeah, when I played for her when 500 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: she was sinking. I mean it's like living room, like 501 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: a session like this. You know, she invites over musicians 502 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: and we play the song she wants to sing, and 503 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: people play songs that she wants to hear. Or songs 504 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: that they are working on. Like, so what you talked 505 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: about playing with with her? Be Hancock, What what's it 506 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: like playing with Joni Mitchell. Well, it's the deepest listening 507 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: you've ever done in your life. She's the deepest listening 508 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: ever because it's not about like, oh, I'm gonna play 509 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: with Jonie. I. I'm listening for what she's doing in 510 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: that moment and where her voice is going, and I 511 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:16,879 Speaker 1: want to offer the the tones, the rhythms that make 512 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: it feel good for her to sing at that moment. 513 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: You know, how did it go? It was perfect? It's perfect. 514 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,760 Speaker 1: She sang lever Man and a couple of other tunes, 515 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: had the old song lever Man. Yeah, okay, yeah, she 516 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: loves you know, she loves classics standing. She had trouble 517 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: for a long time finding bass player. She always sad 518 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 1: bass players didn't understand her music. M because you did, 519 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, but hm, that's interesting. 520 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: It did okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll be back with 521 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: the more Bruce's conversation with Esperanza Spalding after a quick 522 00:34:54,719 --> 00:35:01,800 Speaker 1: break back, but before we hear the rest of Bruce's 523 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: interview with Esperanza Let's listen to a track offer album, 524 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: Emily's Devolution, which we'll talk a bit more about in 525 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: a second. First, here's the song change Us. You said 526 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: you weren't that you weren't the prodigy, and you weren't 527 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,240 Speaker 1: even now you describe yourself as not you don't feel 528 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: like you're fully a part of the kind of jazz 529 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: world you're not. But it's it's. Um, I was just 530 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: gonna say, you went to Berkeley, which is like the 531 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,760 Speaker 1: m I T of jazz. Oh god, it's not bless 532 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: it's heart. It's it's an incredible convening space for anybody 533 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: passionate about pursuing a career music. It is it truly, truly, truly, 534 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: truly is. But yeah, it's it's like those terms that 535 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: nomenclates or of what the music is. I think that 536 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 1: the term refers to a very specific kind of devotion. 537 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,879 Speaker 1: So what I'm saying, I'm not a quote unquot jazz musician. 538 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: It's just out of respect for for that modality of devotion. 539 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: I'm devoted to making and to creating, and that's that's 540 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: its own thing. It's just it's okay with me that 541 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:30,399 Speaker 1: I'm that I'm not, you know, an emissary of that 542 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 1: devotional practice. And and I think it's something also about 543 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: wanting to get out from under the signifier of being 544 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: a jazz musician, because I feel like in some ways 545 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: I use that or it was used to promote me 546 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: as a creator. And now, out of respect for what 547 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 1: the devotional practice is, I want to I want to 548 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,760 Speaker 1: make sure that it were clear about what's what you know? Okay, 549 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: But because you, I mean, you do a lot of 550 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: different kinds of music. I mean re listening to Emily, 551 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: which was your album before this one, I think, well, 552 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: the album before this one you can't get because it 553 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: was about that. Yeah, but Emily was like a really 554 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: that was a really heavy I wish our co host 555 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: Rick Rubin was here because he's an old heavy metal guy. 556 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: He would like guitar solos. But what were you listening 557 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 1: to when you did that album? Damn? I was listening 558 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: to Hm I a lot of David Bowie, a lot 559 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: of Jimi Hendrix. Um Cream, not a lot of cream, 560 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,399 Speaker 1: but listening to Cream a little bit. I had seen 561 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: that documentary about Ginger Baker Um and you worked with 562 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: Tony Visconti, who produced a lot of Bowie, a lot 563 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: of t Rex, Yeah, got a lot of that good 564 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: vibe in it. Yeah. Yeah. It's like sonically the world 565 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: that Emily needed to do. What she came to do 566 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: had those elements that you described. It was loud, and 567 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: it generated movement, and it was about a power trio 568 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: and it was about an expression of power and breaking 569 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: out of whatever had been practiced and whatever had become familiar, 570 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: whatever had become fixed identity. So that's what Emily needed 571 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: to burst into existence. And Emily was a real character, 572 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: did you It's the lava of myself. It was the 573 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 1: metal character of me. It was also maybe more than 574 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: your other work about the songs themselves. You've written a 575 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,360 Speaker 1: lot of songs, but we tend to think of jazz 576 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: as kind of a flow, true, and this was more 577 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: like a song like change us. Oh my gosh, that's right. 578 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: There's no there's no reason that wouldn't be a top 579 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: forty hit. I know that's Did you want it to 580 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: be a top forty hit? I mean I didn't. I 581 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: didn't want it to not be a top forty hit. 582 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: But um, that hasn't hmm, I mean damn. I asked 583 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 1: Emily what she wanted to do, and those are the 584 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: songs that came out. And I didn't ask too many questions, 585 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: you know, there wasn't a lot of well what does 586 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: what does it? What should the influences be in this? 587 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: Like what do we want to happen with this song? 588 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 1: It was just like, here's the instruction manual from Emily, 589 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 1: let's build it and see what we get and we'll 590 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: morph it from there. You like the instruction manuals. I 591 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: do like the instruction manuals. I trust that because you 592 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: also did an album where you said, he was on 593 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: Facebook Live, We're going to do it in seventy seven hours, yeah, 594 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: and you did the whole thing yeah, and everybody could watch. Well, 595 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: that offering performance was the performance of the act of creation. 596 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: So how do you make an album of creation? They 597 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: make an album of the creation process. That was the 598 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 1: way that we figured out that we could capture or 599 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: share my favorite part of making things, which is that 600 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: moment where you get the hit, you think of the thing, 601 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: and then you forge it. That process of forging it 602 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 1: into the thing was the focal point of that project 603 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: as an act of improvisation. Actually, it's like a I 604 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: quote weighing a lot. One of my favorite quotes as 605 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 1: he says, composition is improvisation slowed down, and improvisation is 606 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: composition sped up. And that's what that project was. Have 607 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: you gone back to watch that after you've done? Thank you? No? No, No, 608 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: I haven't. Why not, Well, it's it already happened, you know, 609 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 1: it's like it already. It was a it was a 610 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: thing that was all in a moment. It's like a 611 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: kiss or a or a dance on a bridge that 612 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: you didn't expect with a stranger. It happened, and the 613 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,520 Speaker 1: magic of it was that it was happening in real time, 614 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: and then it wasn't going to happen again, and that 615 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 1: everybody with us was with us in that moment, at 616 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:20,919 Speaker 1: that particular spot on the continuum of eternity. So yeah, 617 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I don't have any need to 618 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 1: go back and look at it. What I compared to 619 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 1: when I was watching clips of it was let it be, 620 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:32,880 Speaker 1: which is that's what the Beatles tried to do. They 621 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: tried to show people how they were making an album. 622 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: Oh cool. That's why I'm wondering if you'd sort of 623 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 1: learned something about how you made music if you did 624 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:47,800 Speaker 1: that well. Part of the I guess impetus for opening 625 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 1: up that process was to share the the ugly moments 626 00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,439 Speaker 1: and the scary moments, and the risk and the yeah, 627 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:07,759 Speaker 1: the imperfections that go into making anything beautiful. So to 628 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 1: let it be seen that most of the process of 629 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,400 Speaker 1: making the song was working with something that didn't really work, 630 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: but you can hear how a seed of that then 631 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: led to what it became. And I felt like that 632 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,919 Speaker 1: was something worth sharing in a moment where so much 633 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: of what we interface with is polished and complete and 634 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: kind of seems like it just like both dropped down 635 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 1: glistening from the heavens. I was excited to share who 636 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,799 Speaker 1: I actually am, who we all actually are as creators, 637 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: that that's most of who we are. The majority of 638 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 1: what makes us performers and artists and creators is that process. 639 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 1: The finished thing is only like the last one hundredth 640 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: of the whole being, you know, But most artists they 641 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 1: want to protected other nine nine. They don't want that 642 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,360 Speaker 1: out because that's the ugly part. So why do you 643 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 1: want that out? I like that part. I wanted to 644 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 1: celebrate that part, and you know, that's my element also 645 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: the same way that performers get on stage and show 646 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 1: their best stuff. They show like the best that they 647 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,879 Speaker 1: have to give to me. Me creating is my best stuff. 648 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,799 Speaker 1: That's why I wanted to share that as the performance, 649 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: you know, which is kind of a jazz idea. I mean, 650 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: probably more than more than pop. When did the singing 651 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:39,760 Speaker 1: start for you? I'm I'm you know, I was just thinking. 652 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 1: I was like, is that really matter? I mean, probably 653 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 1: eight or nine or ten. I feel like maybe we 654 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 1: could talk about I don't know what's what's brewing now. 655 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:08,800 Speaker 1: I mean sinking started when I was out in the world, 656 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:17,839 Speaker 1: probably fifteen. And I feel like this particular moment in 657 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:23,799 Speaker 1: my life as a creator, I'm less interested in, like 658 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,719 Speaker 1: the origin, and I'm more interested in now as an 659 00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,520 Speaker 1: origin point, you know. Okay, well let me reframe it. 660 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 1: I'm interested in I'm interested in what's happened because I 661 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 1: went back and read some early reviews and they'd say, oh, 662 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: her slender voice as she sings along, And then you 663 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: listen to these albums and you're like, no, that's like 664 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:54,760 Speaker 1: a powerhouse. Okay, I don't really think about my voice. 665 00:44:55,200 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 1: I have to confess it's um, I really I practice, 666 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,320 Speaker 1: you know. I try to sing to build. I studied 667 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,959 Speaker 1: to sit to build capacity and different timbres and all that. 668 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: But do you sing to compose? I do sing to compose. 669 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 1: So you're working on this opera, Oh, yes, thank you, 670 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: segu Are you singing those parts? Are you? I will 671 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,359 Speaker 1: sing in some capacity in this operation? No, I don't 672 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,240 Speaker 1: mean in the final I don't mean in the final product. 673 00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,759 Speaker 1: I mean when you're working on it. Are you? Are 674 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,800 Speaker 1: you singing in your head? Are you singing out loud? 675 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: Sometimes this process of igan opera is upside down inside 676 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: out from how operas are usually mate. Because it took 677 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 1: me so long to get the liberto written that Wayne 678 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:56,879 Speaker 1: already wrote all the music. So now we're reckoning with 679 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,440 Speaker 1: this incredible body of work, which is the music that 680 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,720 Speaker 1: he wrote sort of in these three acts already, and 681 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:11,240 Speaker 1: drawing story and language out from that. So in that case, 682 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,640 Speaker 1: sometimes I sing, but I'm actually trying to hear what 683 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 1: an operatic voice would do with some of these lines. 684 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,000 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of speaking because some of the passages, 685 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 1: the music functions as the environment and they're having a 686 00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 1: conversation recitative it's called, or sometimes just spoken through thinking 687 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:42,680 Speaker 1: about or further unpackaging that invitation to write what you 688 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 1: wish for the opera seeks to interrupt the repetition of 689 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: the same story being played out that's played out in 690 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,520 Speaker 1: this original myth. And I'm looking for a way that 691 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 1: as a writer, I can even interrupt the way that 692 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:11,520 Speaker 1: the endings are usually created. Um, what's the colemanth of Ifagenia? 693 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,439 Speaker 1: So she's the one who gets her throat slit. Well, 694 00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: she's sacrificed so that the winds will return, and that 695 00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,440 Speaker 1: Agamemnon and his brother and the fleet they've assembled to 696 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:26,000 Speaker 1: go recapture Helen can sail across the ocean to troy Um. 697 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 1: And so it's the story before the Trojan horse story 698 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:36,080 Speaker 1: that we all know. Um. And by this process of 699 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:41,479 Speaker 1: making the opera has unlocked a question about who gets 700 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,440 Speaker 1: to tell the story, even me as a as a 701 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,640 Speaker 1: woman in the twenty first century, and it's a time 702 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 1: when voices that have often been in the background now 703 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,040 Speaker 1: get to come up and and direct new narratives, new 704 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,920 Speaker 1: speculative narratives. We get to bring to the to the 705 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,719 Speaker 1: public arena, our stories that have been silenced for so long, 706 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: even in the space I'm asking the question, how do 707 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 1: we how do I how do we? How do I 708 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,760 Speaker 1: break the cycle of the tyranny of the individual voice 709 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 1: of the storyteller? And I wonder what becomes possible in 710 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:20,719 Speaker 1: the telling of this story when figures, people, characters who 711 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:25,960 Speaker 1: are often scripted into storytelling opera singers or musicians or actors. 712 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,759 Speaker 1: What becomes possible when their voice is activated in the 713 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,240 Speaker 1: actual design of the story, in the telling of the story. 714 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,000 Speaker 1: That is really really challenging to do. It's beyond my 715 00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:42,239 Speaker 1: capacity right now, but that's that's what we're reaching for. 716 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 1: Who's telling the story now? Well, I am I mean 717 00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,440 Speaker 1: and Euripides told it, and it's it's part of the odyssey, 718 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 1: and it was surely a myth that had been passed 719 00:48:54,600 --> 00:49:02,160 Speaker 1: on for generations before it got written down. But I am, 720 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,920 Speaker 1: I am really curious right now what happens when the 721 00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:12,120 Speaker 1: ending isn't prescribed and instead of barreling towards what we've 722 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 1: been told must happen, we say, no, what happens if 723 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:23,080 Speaker 1: we leave space for an unknown ending to emerge from us? 724 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,400 Speaker 1: I guess co creating in real time so that the 725 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,319 Speaker 1: sort that is the jazz Ethos isn't it. We're going 726 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,680 Speaker 1: to substitute chords, We're going to change it well, and 727 00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:38,680 Speaker 1: all of those are just methods for approaching life in 728 00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:42,800 Speaker 1: real time and improvising in response to what's actually happening. 729 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:44,400 Speaker 1: You know. It's not about like, oh, I'm going to 730 00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: change the chord because I'm a jazz musician. It's about 731 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:51,520 Speaker 1: while I have I have access to enough material that 732 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:56,680 Speaker 1: I can respond to what's actually happening from a large 733 00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:00,360 Speaker 1: batch of possibility. I'm not I'm not fixed by what 734 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,200 Speaker 1: I've practiced. I'm not fixed by what I've learned is 735 00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:06,799 Speaker 1: supposed to happen next. Oh that's it. Yeah, I'm not. 736 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,720 Speaker 1: I am not limited to what I've learned is supposed 737 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:15,319 Speaker 1: to happen next. That's the key to how how I 738 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:20,040 Speaker 1: want to break open the ending of this opera. Yes, right, 739 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:25,160 Speaker 1: I'm glad we're talking about this. That seems like a 740 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,680 Speaker 1: perfect place to stop. Yeah, yeah, amazing. All right, Well, 741 00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:35,399 Speaker 1: thank you so much. Thanks es Bronze Spaulding for taking 742 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,800 Speaker 1: Tom away from cracking the story structure of our upcoming 743 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,520 Speaker 1: opera to talk with Bruce. You can hear all of 744 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,799 Speaker 1: our favorite Es Bronze is Spaulding songs by checking out 745 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,640 Speaker 1: the playlist for this episode at broken record podcast dot com. 746 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,880 Speaker 1: Broken Record is producing help from Jason Gambrel, Mia Lobelle, 747 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,399 Speaker 1: and Leah Rose for pushing industries our theme music spect 748 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,080 Speaker 1: Kenny Beats, I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.