WEBVTT - CZM Rewind: Printing the Revolution

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<v Speaker 1>A media. Hi everyone, it's President's Day today. Cool anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>that means that we are giving you a rerunt and

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<v Speaker 1>the rerun that I wanted to air today was the

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<v Speaker 1>first series that I ever made for iHeart, or indeed

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<v Speaker 1>the first series I ever made for anyone. It's called

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<v Speaker 1>Myanma Printing the Revolution, and if you've heard it before,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what it's about. If you haven't, this takes

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<v Speaker 1>us through the early days of the Mianma Revolution, from

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<v Speaker 1>the coup to people taking to the mountains and fighting.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to share this because it's been a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of years since we first made it, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>at a time when the whole world is worried about

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<v Speaker 1>the way politics are going and the way that states

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<v Speaker 1>are behaving, we can learn a lot from the people

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<v Speaker 1>of Meanma. I don't think it matters where you are.

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<v Speaker 1>There's something that you can take from this, from the

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<v Speaker 1>way that these people stayed in the street and the

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<v Speaker 1>way that they were willing to work together to learn

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<v Speaker 1>from one another and to become better people as they

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<v Speaker 1>struggled to make their world better. It's a long series,

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<v Speaker 1>spoken to many of the people who are in it

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<v Speaker 1>this week, most of them are fine, they're doing well,

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<v Speaker 1>but you will hear about somewhat dying at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of this. This is war like, this is a thing

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<v Speaker 1>that happens in war, but I wanted to give a

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<v Speaker 1>content warning for that such if anybody was upset by it,

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<v Speaker 1>they could turn off. It just comes at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the final episode. If you've not heard this before,

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<v Speaker 1>I hope you'll take the time to listen. We worked

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<v Speaker 1>very very hard on it and it's very important to me.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey everyone, I'm Robert Evans and this is Me and

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<v Speaker 2>Mar printing the Revolutions. It could happen here special mini series,

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<v Speaker 2>an in depth documentary investigation with me and journalist James Stout.

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<v Speaker 2>Over the next four days, you're going to learn about

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<v Speaker 2>the gin Z militias of the Me and Mar Civil War,

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<v Speaker 2>three D printed weapons, and a bunch of other really

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<v Speaker 2>fascinating stuff. Besides, so, without any further ado, here's James.

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<v Speaker 1>Ever since the first person built the first fence, took

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<v Speaker 1>land from everybody and to themselves, property rights and violence

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<v Speaker 1>have gone hand in hand. With property grew the state,

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<v Speaker 1>and with the state came the police. Today, most of

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<v Speaker 1>us grew up under the control of states and they're

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<v Speaker 1>so ubiquitous that their violence is often overlooked until a

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<v Speaker 1>particularly egregious incident occurs. But all states, even the most benign,

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<v Speaker 1>rest on a monopoly on violence. State to the entities

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<v Speaker 1>that imposed laws on a given area, and if you

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<v Speaker 1>break those laws, state can beat you up, lock you up,

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<v Speaker 1>or shoot you up. When the state loses the monopoly

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<v Speaker 1>on violence, it ceases to be able to enforce its laws,

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<v Speaker 1>charges taxes, and enforce its will on the people at rules.

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<v Speaker 1>We've seen this all over the world, from the Democratic

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<v Speaker 1>Republic of Congo to briefly downtown Seattle. Our state in

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<v Speaker 1>the USA speaks a language of rights and liberties. When

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<v Speaker 1>we want to appeal to the state, we tend to

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<v Speaker 1>use that language, even though our state, as we saw

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty, is backed by plenty of violence, as

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<v Speaker 1>much as any other, goes a long way to camouflage

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<v Speaker 1>that violence. Some states are a bit more mask off.

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<v Speaker 1>They speak to their citizens more or less exclusively through violence,

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<v Speaker 1>and when citizens need to respond to that state, they

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<v Speaker 1>respond to the language it uses to speak to them.

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<v Speaker 1>That's how a teenager from yangon Meh and Mar ended

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<v Speaker 1>up on Reddit in summer of twenty twenty one asking

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<v Speaker 1>strangers have to use a three D printer and computer

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<v Speaker 1>to make a rifle. Me and Ma isn't a country

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<v Speaker 1>that is on the radar for most of the US.

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<v Speaker 1>If it is at all, it's probably because of State

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<v Speaker 1>Councilor and Foreign Minister ensign Suchi. She managed perhaps the

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<v Speaker 1>history's fastest pivot from Nobel Peace Prize winner to head

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<v Speaker 1>of a government accused of genocide. But Tsuki is in

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<v Speaker 1>jail now, and the Rahingia, the Muslim ethnic group that

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<v Speaker 1>the military attempted to eliminate from the east of the

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<v Speaker 1>country under her rule, are just one of many ethnic

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<v Speaker 1>and political groups. They're in open armed conflict with the

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<v Speaker 1>military who now hold control of the government of me

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<v Speaker 1>and Ma, known locally as a tatmodor the military's whose power.

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<v Speaker 1>In early twenty twenty one, you might have seen a

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<v Speaker 1>video of a woman doing an aerobics workout as the

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<v Speaker 1>vehicles rolled in behind her to seize power. Ever since

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<v Speaker 1>that day, they've been committing crimes against humanity all over

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<v Speaker 1>the country. Mia Mah has a longer history of dictatorship

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<v Speaker 1>than democracy. The British East India Company occupied the area

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<v Speaker 1>that now represents the country in the nineteenth century. As always,

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<v Speaker 1>they talked about civilizing missions and freedoms, but in practice

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<v Speaker 1>the occupation was extractive and only benefited the Anglo Burmese

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<v Speaker 1>and a few Indian civil servants. They bought with them often,

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<v Speaker 1>but this month led to resistance that manifested itself in

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<v Speaker 1>hunger strikes and everyday acts of disobedience, small ways of

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<v Speaker 1>saying no. In a few instances, it became open an

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<v Speaker 1>unbrest build into the streets. The country became a major

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<v Speaker 1>battleground during the Second World War, with Japan evading and

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<v Speaker 1>seizing the country before Allied forces took it back in

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<v Speaker 1>a fierce campaign in nineteen forty four. As many as

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred and fifty thousand Japanese troops died. Burmese people

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<v Speaker 1>fought on both sides. Ag San Agsan Suchi's father demanded

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<v Speaker 1>that Britain grant him and his fellow Burmese people independence

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<v Speaker 1>if they fought for the Allies. The British refused. Ansan

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<v Speaker 1>then went first to China and eventually Japan for support,

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<v Speaker 1>and eventually he fought against the British with his Burmer

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<v Speaker 1>Independence Army, but after two years of occupation, Agsian and

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<v Speaker 1>his comrade changed sides under a broad alliance called the

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<v Speaker 1>Anti Fascist Organization. They turned on the Japanese and they

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<v Speaker 1>once again took up arms to liberate their country. On

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<v Speaker 1>the fourth of January nineteen forty seven, Burma became an

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<v Speaker 1>independent republic. The new republic's territory combined three British territories

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<v Speaker 1>and over one hundred distinct ethnic groups. For the next

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<v Speaker 1>fourteen years, these groups struggled to find a democratic Burma

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<v Speaker 1>and an identity for themselves within it. Mostly they failed.

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<v Speaker 1>The period was characterized by the Chinese Civil War, spilling

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<v Speaker 1>it to Burma ethnic armed insurgencies and repeated to Ma

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<v Speaker 1>for a federal republic with a weak central government. In

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty two, the military a rate at new demands

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<v Speaker 1>for a federal republic stage to coup. Burmer spent the

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<v Speaker 1>next twenty two years under the military rule of a council,

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<v Speaker 1>pursuing what they called the Burmese Way to socialism. Burmer's

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<v Speaker 1>planned economy left it largely isolated from the rest of

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<v Speaker 1>the world. At home, the press was censored, and a

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<v Speaker 1>type of nationalism that combined nominal socialism and Burmer ethnic

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<v Speaker 1>identity became the official state ideology. During this period, Burmer

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<v Speaker 1>became one of the world's poorest countries. Sporadic protests were

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<v Speaker 1>met with overwhelming force, and the eighth of August nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>eighty eight, an uprising began. It started among his students

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<v Speaker 1>in Yangon, it took real quickly around the country. The

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<v Speaker 1>so called eight eight eight eight Uprising because of the date,

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<v Speaker 1>began with the general strike and huge non violent protests.

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<v Speaker 1>These were met with gunfire. Protesters fought back with molotov

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<v Speaker 1>cocktails and rocks. The military fired into hospitals, and by

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<v Speaker 1>September eighteenth they'd launched a coup to take the country

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<v Speaker 1>from a one party state back to a military dictatorship.

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<v Speaker 1>Through in these protests, Angsan Suki, the daughter of independence

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<v Speaker 1>here at Anksan, emerged as a national figurehead, especially in

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<v Speaker 1>the west. Amitov Ghusch, the Indian writer, wrote the following

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<v Speaker 1>about a eight eight eight across Burma. People poured out

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<v Speaker 1>in thousands to join the protests, not just students, but

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<v Speaker 1>also teachers, monks, children, professionals, and trade unionists of every shape.

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<v Speaker 1>It was on this day, too, that the Hunter made

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<v Speaker 1>its first determined attempt at repression. Soldiers opened fire on

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<v Speaker 1>the demonstrators and hundreds of unarmed marchers were killed. The

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<v Speaker 1>killings continued for a week, but still the demonstrators continued

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<v Speaker 1>to flood the streets. After the uprising had been suppressed,

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<v Speaker 1>multi party elections were later held, while the new National

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<v Speaker 1>League for Democracy party of Angsang shu Ki won the

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<v Speaker 1>most votes. The Hunter refused to see power. Protests continued

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<v Speaker 1>off and on for decades, with the two thousand and

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<v Speaker 1>seven Saffron Revolution, which the government violently cracked down on monks,

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<v Speaker 1>resulting in the most international condemnation. Following the Saffron Revolution,

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<v Speaker 1>the government's isolationism hindering aid After extensive cyclone damage in

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and eight, the military government finally implemented the

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<v Speaker 1>Roadmap to discipline flourishing democracy that had developed in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>ninety three. If you're wondering about the name of the country,

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<v Speaker 1>this officially changed in nineteen eighty nine as well, but

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<v Speaker 1>like much of the nation's history, a grand proclamation from

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<v Speaker 1>the government didn't mean much on the ground. Both words

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<v Speaker 1>derived from Buranma, a name that the majority ethnic group

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<v Speaker 1>who we're calling Berman here used for themselves. Many opposition

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<v Speaker 1>groups still use Burma instead of Mienma. It's another small

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<v Speaker 1>way of saying no to the military's attempt to control

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<v Speaker 1>every aspect of their lives.

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<v Speaker 3>Finally, on the eighteenth of September, the army took to

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<v Speaker 3>the streets and the coup, led by Chief of Stamp

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<v Speaker 3>General Sumoon. The next day the killings began again. The

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<v Speaker 3>army later described these people as lutus.

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<v Speaker 2>It was not until twenty eleven that the military junta

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<v Speaker 2>finally stepped down and passed on power to the Union,

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<v Speaker 2>Solidarity and Development Party in an election that was widely

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<v Speaker 2>seen as fraudulent. A year later, long San sou Chi

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<v Speaker 2>was released, and by twenty fifteen her National League for

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<v Speaker 2>Democracy won an absolute majority. While she was barred from

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<v Speaker 2>holding the presidential office, she took on the role of

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<v Speaker 2>State councilor, and Mienmar entered a period of liberalization, which,

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<v Speaker 2>although never the federal democracy promised when the country gained

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<v Speaker 2>its independence in nineteen forty seven, allowed for significant freedoms

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<v Speaker 2>of communication and speech, especially for the Burman majority ethnic group.

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<v Speaker 2>Not everyone was reconciled to the change. Many of Myanmars

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred and thirty five ethnic groups feel marginalized by

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<v Speaker 2>the state, which tends to be dominated by the Burman ethnicity.

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<v Speaker 2>Some of these groups have armed insurgeon wings, often more

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<v Speaker 2>than one per ethnic group, as they disagree on politics

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<v Speaker 2>or religion. These groups have fought various Burmese governments since

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<v Speaker 2>the nineteen forties, but many of them reached a ceasefire

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<v Speaker 2>with the government as the country passed from military to

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<v Speaker 2>civilian rule. One group, however, saw a huge uptick in violence.

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<v Speaker 2>The Rohingya ethnic group have been persecuted by Buddhist nationals

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<v Speaker 2>since the nineteen seventies, but the campaign against them increased

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<v Speaker 2>in violence and scale in twenty sixteen, when the Tatmadab

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<v Speaker 2>began a huge crackdown against Rohinga people in Rakin's State.

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<v Speaker 2>The persecution began in response to attacks by the Arkan

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<v Speaker 2>Rohinga Salvation Army on Burmese border outposts, but the campaign

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<v Speaker 2>that followed had nothing to do with a small insurgent

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<v Speaker 2>group and a lot to do with the desire of

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<v Speaker 2>the Totmadaw to destroy or drive out all Rohinka people,

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<v Speaker 2>who they claim are undocumented migrants from Bangladesh and not

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<v Speaker 2>citizens of Myanmar. While the world praised Suki her government

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<v Speaker 2>looked the other way as the military carried out a

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<v Speaker 2>genocide that displaced over a million people and killed tens

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<v Speaker 2>of thousands. It was in the context of growing international

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<v Speaker 2>condemnation of the genocide that Mianmar went to the polls

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<v Speaker 2>in November of twenty twenty. The November twenty twenty election

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<v Speaker 2>was only the nation's second since the official end of

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<v Speaker 2>military rule. On Sansuchi's National League for Democracy won a

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<v Speaker 2>resounding victory. The military backed Union Solidarity and Development Party

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<v Speaker 2>holds twenty five percent of seats under a constitution that

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<v Speaker 2>SUCHI wanted to change. It didn't take defeat well. The

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<v Speaker 2>election was neither perfectly free nor fair. The Rohinga have

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<v Speaker 2>been almost wholly disenfranchised. The government claims they are illegal

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<v Speaker 2>immigrants from Bangladesh and thus unable to vote. Areas with

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<v Speaker 2>ethnic armed organ as if which opposed the government often

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<v Speaker 2>had poles canceled and internet cut off. According to Human

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<v Speaker 2>Rights Watch, The Carter Center estimates that one point four

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<v Speaker 2>million citizens couldn't vote. The one opposition party that was

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<v Speaker 2>certainly not short changed was the military's. However, it was

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<v Speaker 2>the Union Solidarity and Development Party USDP, which had been

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<v Speaker 2>calling for election delays due to COVID before poles opened.

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<v Speaker 2>Once the elections concluded, they immediately began questioning the results.

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<v Speaker 2>They continued to attempt to undermine the vote for months

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<v Speaker 2>before they resorted to force on the first to February

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty one, the day before the newly elected legislators

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<v Speaker 2>were due to be sworn in. The world largely ignored

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<v Speaker 2>the situation, apart from the one viral video where a

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<v Speaker 2>masked fitness instructor dances in the foreground as APC's roll

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<v Speaker 2>through a roadblock and into the parliament complex behind her.

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<v Speaker 2>Ensang su Chi was arrested, charged with breaching COVID nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>restrictions and illegally importing a walkie talkie, and General min

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<v Speaker 2>Angkhlang was installed at the head of a military hojna

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<v Speaker 2>to If this sounds a little like a stop to

0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Steel fantasy, that's because it is eerily similar to one.

0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:10.080
<v Speaker 2>Meanmar's democracy is not what academics call a consolidated one,

0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:12.360
<v Speaker 2>which is to say that democracy has never been the

0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.520
<v Speaker 2>only game in town there, but the United States seems

0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:19.640
<v Speaker 2>to be rapidly deconsolidating its own democracy. The allegations of

0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.120
<v Speaker 2>election fraud in Meanmar were no more credible than those

0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:26.000
<v Speaker 2>in Arizona. However, the military's tradition of political engagement there

0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:29.160
<v Speaker 2>removed many of the barriers in between electoral defeat and

0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.400
<v Speaker 2>the death of a short lived democracy. Within twenty four

0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.880
<v Speaker 2>hours of the coup, the people of Myanmar had fought back.

0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Healthcare workers and civil servants were on strike by February third,

0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:42.120
<v Speaker 2>and a boycott of junta owned businesses had begun. Protests

0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.720
<v Speaker 2>began with a handful of people. The memories of massacres

0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.000
<v Speaker 2>of pro democracy protesters in the nineteen eighties kept many away,

0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.559
<v Speaker 2>but a younger generation who had grown up with relative liberty,

0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.000
<v Speaker 2>internet access and basic freedoms had not seen blood in

0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.000
<v Speaker 2>the streets like their parents. They had seen activists in

0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.760
<v Speaker 2>Hong Kong, the USA, and Ukraine on violent state APPARATUSUS,

0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:03.840
<v Speaker 2>and they'd often seen them win.

0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.800
<v Speaker 1>By the sixth of February, twenty thousand people in the

0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.000
<v Speaker 1>streets of Yangon, the largest city, and the internet was

0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:15.920
<v Speaker 1>shut down nationwide. Protests began peacefully, with mimeable signs like

0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.760
<v Speaker 1>my eggs is bad, but the military is worse and

0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.520
<v Speaker 1>we are protesting peacefully. But with the WAP capitalized so

0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.800
<v Speaker 1>it said whap. These signs were designed by a generation

0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.200
<v Speaker 1>of kids who grew up with access to the Internet

0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:33.520
<v Speaker 1>to attract international attention. Despite the ban, they used VPNs

0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.680
<v Speaker 1>to show imagury to their struggle. One sign read I've

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.320
<v Speaker 1>messed with the wrong generation. Now we'll never be allowed

0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:43.360
<v Speaker 1>to ruin our own lives. The Tatmador showed its cards

0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:47.440
<v Speaker 1>pretty quickly. Police began the suppression with sling shots and clubs,

0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.560
<v Speaker 1>then tear gas and flashbrang and quickly they moved to

0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:55.280
<v Speaker 1>rifles and rocket the pel grenades. By the ninth of February,

0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:59.040
<v Speaker 1>maya thway thway, heine, a twenty year old woman have

0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.720
<v Speaker 1>been shot in the street.

0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:06.000
<v Speaker 4>What did you.

0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:32.200
<v Speaker 5>Soon?

0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.760
<v Speaker 1>There's young protesters to switch signs for shields. By mid

0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.560
<v Speaker 1>March and I'm forties day, one hundred and forteen civilians

0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.480
<v Speaker 1>were killed in a single day, including sixty five in

0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:47.200
<v Speaker 1>Yangon who were kettled by police, surrounded net shot. Quickly,

0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.280
<v Speaker 1>shield walls were set up. Medics identified themselves in the

0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:54.240
<v Speaker 1>protest movement, and hard hats and goggles were distributed, but

0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.160
<v Speaker 1>this didn't tip the balance of power in their favor.

0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.640
<v Speaker 1>So Orlin, a former student union leader, was there from

0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.120
<v Speaker 1>the start. In a text message, he told me I

0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.400
<v Speaker 1>did not miss a single day as a member of

0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 1>the Caya State National Strike Committee. I later became more

0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:14.400
<v Speaker 1>involved in anti authoritarian protests. In the early protests, you

0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.080
<v Speaker 1>see him in photos walking at the front of the

0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.080
<v Speaker 1>group carrying flags and banners with his student ID card

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.320
<v Speaker 1>on a lanyard around his neck. But by March he's

0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:27.119
<v Speaker 1>wearing a black shirt, goggles and a hard construction hat. Meanwhile,

0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.280
<v Speaker 1>the National League for Democracy politicians who had escaped attention

0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.720
<v Speaker 1>joined other parties and set up a National Unity Government

0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:38.240
<v Speaker 1>in April. The National Unity Government contained members of the

0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:42.520
<v Speaker 1>National League for Democracy, but significantly, a Rahindio activist was

0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.000
<v Speaker 1>appointed an advisor in the Ministry of Human Rights, and

0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:48.240
<v Speaker 1>the National Unity Government has announced it would for the

0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.960
<v Speaker 1>first time accept the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court

0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.400
<v Speaker 1>with respect to all international crimes committed in me and

0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Mah since two thousand and two. This would include the

0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:02.440
<v Speaker 1>Rhinga genocide. By May, both the National Unity Government and

0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.400
<v Speaker 1>Zwelin had realized that no amount of non violent protests

0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:07.760
<v Speaker 1>was going to this lodge regime that was happy to

0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.080
<v Speaker 1>gun down kids in the street. So on the fifth

0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.440
<v Speaker 1>of May, he left for the jungle. That same day,

0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.080
<v Speaker 1>the National Unity government announced the formation of the People's

0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.600
<v Speaker 1>Defense Force or PDF. Within a month, eight hundred soldiers

0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.800
<v Speaker 1>has it affected to these pro democracy guerrilla units. Many

0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:28.400
<v Speaker 1>bought their guns with them, but Twa didn't join the PDF. Instead,

0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:30.720
<v Speaker 1>he joined one of ME and R's many ethnic armed

0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.520
<v Speaker 1>organizations groups opposed to a central state and its domination

0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:38.520
<v Speaker 1>by the Burman ethnicity. To understand these groups, you need

0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.000
<v Speaker 1>to understand that ME andm R is composed of dozens,

0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.200
<v Speaker 1>not hundreds, of ethnic groups, but that the Burman, who

0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.840
<v Speaker 1>make up about two thirds of the population, have always

0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:48.800
<v Speaker 1>controlled the state and used it as a tool in

0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.560
<v Speaker 1>furthering their interest. Some of these groups, like the Kurrent

0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:55.760
<v Speaker 1>National Liberation Army and the Kachin Independence Army, have been

0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.479
<v Speaker 1>fighting for decades since the country emerged from British colonial

0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.960
<v Speaker 1>rule at the end of World War Two. All of

0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.040
<v Speaker 1>these groups drew on a combination of ethnic and political grievances.

0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:09.240
<v Speaker 1>Many of them administer semi autonomous territories like the Kurrent State.

0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:14.800
<v Speaker 2>In twenty thirteen, thirteen ethnic armed organizations or EAOs came

0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.879
<v Speaker 2>together to form the nationwide Ceasefire Coordinating Team in CCT

0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.720
<v Speaker 2>and signed an eleven point Common Position of Ethnic Resistance

0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:27.159
<v Speaker 2>Organizations on national Ceasefire or the LEISA Agreement. Most of

0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.240
<v Speaker 2>them seemed to agree that they would accept a federal

0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:33.240
<v Speaker 2>system rather than complete autonomy. In twenty fifteen, a ceasefire

0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:37.040
<v Speaker 2>was signed, but conflict between ethnic armed organizations and between

0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:41.320
<v Speaker 2>EAOs and the government continued. Since the coup began, EO

0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:45.560
<v Speaker 2>membership has skyrocketed, and in October, the National Unity government

0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:49.640
<v Speaker 2>announced alliances with several groups under a central chain of command.

0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:52.520
<v Speaker 2>Some political organizations who played a part in the nineteen

0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.920
<v Speaker 2>eighty eight uprising, like the Al Burma Students Democratic Front,

0:18:56.119 --> 0:19:00.480
<v Speaker 2>have been revived as armed groups. The ABSDF recently attacked

0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.520
<v Speaker 2>top Madaw ships using an RPG. Attacks on military bases

0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.640
<v Speaker 2>have also stepped up. PDF units have ambushed and killed

0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:11.360
<v Speaker 2>policemen and raided police and military outposts. Each time they do,

0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.760
<v Speaker 2>they steal valuable weapons and ammunition. The top Madaw has

0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:19.320
<v Speaker 2>responded with shellings and airstrikes against residential areas, executions, mass

0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.760
<v Speaker 2>physical retribution, and the murdering of civilians and aid workers

0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.919
<v Speaker 2>and burning of their bodies. As a result of all this,

0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:30.240
<v Speaker 2>ethnic armed organizations have joined forces with anti authoritarian Burman

0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.800
<v Speaker 2>people under the auspices of the People's Defense Forces, which

0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:37.320
<v Speaker 2>are under the command of the exiled National Unity Government.

0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:43.320
<v Speaker 6>We have never experienced such kind of brutalities from the

0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.840
<v Speaker 6>military as well as as strong resistance from the people.

0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.760
<v Speaker 6>They try to make sure the whole country submit to them,

0:19:52.840 --> 0:20:04.560
<v Speaker 6>but we still refuse to allow them to be our rulers.

0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.600
<v Speaker 7>This defiance has led to the formation of the People's

0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:13.879
<v Speaker 7>Defense Forces or PDF, a coalition of thousands of resistance

0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:18.440
<v Speaker 7>fighters who carrying out surprise attacks on hunter checkpoints, bombing

0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:23.280
<v Speaker 7>army convoys, and supporting ethnic armies in their fight against

0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.760
<v Speaker 7>the regime. Twelve months ago, these men and women were

0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:31.640
<v Speaker 7>students and office workers protesting the coup. Today they're training

0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:33.800
<v Speaker 7>to overthrow the military.

0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:37.840
<v Speaker 6>The Annesota is the tough choints, but the young people

0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:42.040
<v Speaker 6>they are ready to defend the communities. They have to,

0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:46.359
<v Speaker 6>of course, sacrifice their own daily life, ordinary life.

0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:49.760
<v Speaker 2>Since March of twenty twenty, the influx of new recruits

0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.640
<v Speaker 2>has changed these groups. Generation Z militias like the Carini

0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.160
<v Speaker 2>gin Z Liberation Army have sprung up, founded by kids

0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:00.840
<v Speaker 2>who were holding ammable signs at protests a few months earlier.

0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:04.320
<v Speaker 2>They care less about ethnic independence and more about beating

0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:08.560
<v Speaker 2>the junta. Many Berman kids join these groups. These organizations

0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:11.920
<v Speaker 2>of young fighters received training from the experienced guerrillas hiding

0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.240
<v Speaker 2>in the jungle, but they tended to adopt a less

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:17.920
<v Speaker 2>top down military structure and armed themselves by scavenging whatever

0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:21.160
<v Speaker 2>weapons they could find, often twenty two caliber rifles better

0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:24.639
<v Speaker 2>suited to shooting squirrels than soldiers. It was these kids

0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:26.720
<v Speaker 2>who grew up online and knew that there was nothing

0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.440
<v Speaker 2>you couldn't learn about on Reddit who tipped the balance

0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.800
<v Speaker 2>of force away from the state. Unlike the ethnic armed

0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:36.680
<v Speaker 2>organizations and other more experienced guerrillas than menmar these kids

0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:41.119
<v Speaker 2>have little military experience. Their organizations have few rules and regulations.

0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.520
<v Speaker 2>They're made up entirely of young people. As a result,

0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:47.720
<v Speaker 2>there are certain things that they're less proficient at, but

0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:50.560
<v Speaker 2>they're much better at things like grasping the use of

0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.560
<v Speaker 2>new technologies, which has led to me and Maar being

0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:55.960
<v Speaker 2>the first country in the world where three D printed

0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:58.920
<v Speaker 2>weapons have taken part in a revolution against the government.

0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:03.040
<v Speaker 2>To hear more about that and many other things as

0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:20.160
<v Speaker 2>this series continues. Hey, everybody, I'm Robert Evans, and this

0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:24.800
<v Speaker 2>is me and mar printing the Revolution Part two. Since

0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.680
<v Speaker 2>the dawn of firearms, regular people all over the world

0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:30.400
<v Speaker 2>have had the same basic idea, maybe if I made

0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:32.520
<v Speaker 2>myself a gun, the government wouldn't be able to be

0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.640
<v Speaker 2>such a dick to me. Historically, this has had little

0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:38.359
<v Speaker 2>impact on the willingness of governments to be dicks to people.

0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:42.440
<v Speaker 2>In the beginning, all gun manufacturing was done by individual artisans,

0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:44.480
<v Speaker 2>and thus making a gun in your home was really

0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:46.520
<v Speaker 2>no different from making it in a shop, as long

0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:49.439
<v Speaker 2>as you had the proper tools. Guns in this period

0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:52.199
<v Speaker 2>weren't super useful on their own and were best fired

0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:54.399
<v Speaker 2>in a volley by a shitload of dudes at once.

0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Since individual firearms were extremely inaccurate and cumbersome to use,

0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:01.440
<v Speaker 2>the fact that some poor or blacksmith could make himself

0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:03.800
<v Speaker 2>one wasn't much of a threat to anybody in power.

0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:07.320
<v Speaker 2>It did mean that battlefield prowess came from large blocks

0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:11.760
<v Speaker 2>of trained soldiers, not fuel lords on horseback rallying untrained peasants.

0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:14.879
<v Speaker 2>This change in technology led to a change in warfare

0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:18.399
<v Speaker 2>and helped to change society. As firearms evolved and became

0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:21.479
<v Speaker 2>these central weapons of battle. They required more intense tooling

0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:25.600
<v Speaker 2>and more expensive manufacturing capacity. Nations and peoples without the

0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:29.400
<v Speaker 2>know how our infrastructure were at a tremendous disadvantage. As

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:32.960
<v Speaker 2>soon as this situation came into being, these unfortunate communities

0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:35.560
<v Speaker 2>set to work finding ways to gain the advantages of

0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:41.040
<v Speaker 2>firearms without the manufacturing capacity their foes enjoyed. Indigenous cannons

0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:45.800
<v Speaker 2>and regions resisting imperialism often consisted of composite materials less

0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:48.879
<v Speaker 2>sturdy than brods or iron. In the sixteen hundreds and

0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:52.920
<v Speaker 2>seventeen hundreds, Indigenous Americans in South America used wooden cannons

0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:56.880
<v Speaker 2>to fight against Spanish and Portuguese conquerors. The Vietnamese used

0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:59.600
<v Speaker 2>wooden cannons to resist the French during the coachin China

0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Campaigane of eighteen sixty two. American Indians used wooden artillery

0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:07.600
<v Speaker 2>to blast settler fortifications in the seventeen hundreds and eighteen hundreds.

0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:09.639
<v Speaker 2>In the months that led up to the outbreak of

0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:12.080
<v Speaker 2>the Revolutionary War, the men who fought to create the

0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:15.440
<v Speaker 2>United States busied themselves building rifles and cannons in their

0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:18.879
<v Speaker 2>homes and communities to resist the English. This trend has

0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:22.920
<v Speaker 2>never really stopped in warfare. The day before we recorded this, James,

0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:25.560
<v Speaker 2>my partner in this series, sent me a screen grab

0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:28.400
<v Speaker 2>from a live stream of someone in Ukraine printing pieces

0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:31.760
<v Speaker 2>for AK forty sevens on a three D printer. Firearms

0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:34.359
<v Speaker 2>manufactured outside the arms industry have played a role in

0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:38.280
<v Speaker 2>every conflict of the modern era, but as you've probably guessed,

0:24:38.359 --> 0:24:40.879
<v Speaker 2>they have had the greatest influence in the little wars

0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:41.880
<v Speaker 2>of colonialism.

0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:46.359
<v Speaker 1>European nations rarely allowed any sort of firearms ownership in

0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:49.920
<v Speaker 1>their colonies except the individuals and ethnic groups that adopted

0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:54.160
<v Speaker 1>its local enforces. Since most of these places had never

0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:58.440
<v Speaker 1>developed their own industrial base for arms industry, colonial rebellions

0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:01.200
<v Speaker 1>often relied on home made weapons in their early stages,

0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:05.840
<v Speaker 1>along with modern firearms pilfered by deserting local soldiers. Where

0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:10.280
<v Speaker 1>domestic productive capacity existed, European colonizing nations went out of

0:25:10.320 --> 0:25:13.480
<v Speaker 1>their way to relocate it, along with the profit it generated,

0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:16.840
<v Speaker 1>to the metropol All were reflected on this in his

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:21.760
<v Speaker 1>novel Burmese Dates, saying in the eighteenth century, the Indians

0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:24.000
<v Speaker 1>cast guns that are at any rate up to the

0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:27.960
<v Speaker 1>European standard. Now after we've been in India one hundred

0:25:27.960 --> 0:25:30.320
<v Speaker 1>and fifty years. You can't make so much as a

0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:35.680
<v Speaker 1>brass cartridge case in the whole continent. Meanwhile, among the colonizers,

0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:38.359
<v Speaker 1>being armed became almost a synonym for being a man.

0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:42.720
<v Speaker 1>This was particularly true for the colonial police forces and militaries,

0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:47.560
<v Speaker 1>but it was also true domestically. Most people are broadly

0:25:47.600 --> 0:25:49.880
<v Speaker 1>familiar with the u s. Second Amendment the robust gun

0:25:49.920 --> 0:25:54.040
<v Speaker 1>culture that it's spawned, but during the higher colonialism, English

0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:57.760
<v Speaker 1>citizens are also free to arm themselves. In nineteen hundred,

0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:02.600
<v Speaker 1>Prime Minister Robert gascoyne Cecil Marquis of Salisbury, gave a

0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:05.040
<v Speaker 1>speech in which he claimed he would lud the day

0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:07.960
<v Speaker 1>when there was a rifle in every cottage in England.

0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:12.520
<v Speaker 1>Firearms were utterly and restricted at this point. The first

0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:16.960
<v Speaker 1>chains to this came in nineteen oh three with the

0:26:16.960 --> 0:26:19.440
<v Speaker 1>first Law that required a permit to carry a handgun

0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:24.080
<v Speaker 1>and restricted children from buying guns. Still, firearms were widely

0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:27.000
<v Speaker 1>available until a red panic gripped the nation in nineteen

0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:32.439
<v Speaker 1>nineteen following the Bolshek Revolution in Russia. Across the ocean

0:26:32.440 --> 0:26:36.520
<v Speaker 1>in Spain, where firearms ownership was less strictly restricted, where

0:26:36.640 --> 0:26:38.760
<v Speaker 1>Orwell himself would learn what it was to fire a

0:26:38.880 --> 0:26:42.359
<v Speaker 1>rifle at someone who shot back. Armed unions and working

0:26:42.400 --> 0:26:45.160
<v Speaker 1>people served as the only bullwalk to a military coup.

0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:49.280
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen thirty six, in Madrid, one officer opened his

0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:52.480
<v Speaker 1>armory to the union militias, but another refused to hand

0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:55.040
<v Speaker 1>over for the bolts for the guns they had been issued.

0:26:55.960 --> 0:26:58.919
<v Speaker 1>In Barcelona, where the anarchist left had a long tradition

0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:02.520
<v Speaker 1>of armed political violence, the coup was repelled by workers

0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:06.760
<v Speaker 1>with guns, and a general leading troops there was imprisoned

0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:10.280
<v Speaker 1>and executed. The same pattern played out all across the

0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:14.200
<v Speaker 1>country in July nineteen thirty six, when the military rose

0:27:14.280 --> 0:27:17.720
<v Speaker 1>up to topple the elected government. In the cities where

0:27:17.720 --> 0:27:20.560
<v Speaker 1>the government opened the armories to the people, the coup

0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:23.240
<v Speaker 1>was repelled. In the cities where the government did not,

0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:28.120
<v Speaker 1>the coup succeeded. Reflecting on this in nineteen forty one,

0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:32.919
<v Speaker 1>or Wit, the totalitarian states can do great things, but

0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:36.120
<v Speaker 1>there is one thing they cannot do. They cannot give

0:27:36.440 --> 0:27:38.960
<v Speaker 1>factory worker a rifle and tell him to take it

0:27:39.040 --> 0:27:41.919
<v Speaker 1>home and keep it in his bedroom. That rifle on

0:27:41.960 --> 0:27:44.600
<v Speaker 1>the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat

0:27:44.920 --> 0:27:47.760
<v Speaker 1>is a symbol of democracy. It's a job to see

0:27:47.800 --> 0:27:48.840
<v Speaker 1>that it's stays there.

0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:52.440
<v Speaker 2>Despite Orwell's please. The years that followed the Second World

0:27:52.520 --> 0:27:54.800
<v Speaker 2>War led to greater restrictions of the ability of the

0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:58.240
<v Speaker 2>public to arm itself. By the nineteen fifties, carrying any

0:27:58.240 --> 0:28:01.760
<v Speaker 2>weapon for self defense was illegal. Semi automatic center fire

0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:04.640
<v Speaker 2>arms were banned in nineteen eighty eight, and pistols were

0:28:04.640 --> 0:28:07.800
<v Speaker 2>banned in nineteen ninety six after a mass shooting killed

0:28:07.880 --> 0:28:12.040
<v Speaker 2>sixteen children in Dunblane. This was all utterly infuriating to

0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:13.520
<v Speaker 2>a man named Philip A.

0:28:13.880 --> 0:28:14.240
<v Speaker 8>Loody.

0:28:15.000 --> 0:28:17.359
<v Speaker 2>Loudy, born in nineteen sixty five grew up on a

0:28:17.400 --> 0:28:21.560
<v Speaker 2>farm in West Yorkshire, England. We don't have a tremendous

0:28:21.600 --> 0:28:24.840
<v Speaker 2>amount of detail about his upbringing, but by the time

0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:27.000
<v Speaker 2>he was in his early thirties he'd become a committed

0:28:27.040 --> 0:28:30.719
<v Speaker 2>crusader for an unrestricted right to bear arms. A skilled

0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:33.760
<v Speaker 2>machinist with a well equipped shop, Loody began the long

0:28:33.840 --> 0:28:37.520
<v Speaker 2>process of learning how to craft home made firearms. Soon

0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:41.680
<v Speaker 2>he was building semi and fully automatic weapons. Now these

0:28:41.680 --> 0:28:45.800
<v Speaker 2>were not military grade firearms. The barrels were unrifled, which

0:28:45.840 --> 0:28:49.440
<v Speaker 2>made them terribly inaccurate, but every piece could be crafted

0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:53.280
<v Speaker 2>from widely available things like sheet metal, washers and screws.

0:28:53.760 --> 0:28:55.960
<v Speaker 2>The person assembling a looty gun would need to be

0:28:56.000 --> 0:28:58.800
<v Speaker 2>a skilled craftsman, but they would not need access to

0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:03.640
<v Speaker 2>welding rigs forges, rather expensive industrial equipment. Loody published a

0:29:03.640 --> 0:29:08.160
<v Speaker 2>book Expedient Homemade Firearms, The nine millimeters Submachine Gun in

0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:12.360
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety eight through Paladin Press. In the late nineteen nineties,

0:29:12.400 --> 0:29:14.600
<v Speaker 2>Paladin was one of the places you could go to

0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:18.120
<v Speaker 2>mail order fringe political literature and guides for stuff like

0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:21.080
<v Speaker 2>trapping human beings or disabling the drive system of an

0:29:21.080 --> 0:29:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Abrams tank in the United States. Nothing about Loudy's book

0:29:24.880 --> 0:29:28.240
<v Speaker 2>was or is illegal, but Phil didn't live in the

0:29:28.320 --> 0:29:31.600
<v Speaker 2>United States. He was arrested several times, starting in the

0:29:31.680 --> 0:29:34.560
<v Speaker 2>late nineteen nineties when a pair of illegal home built

0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:37.440
<v Speaker 2>guns were found on his property. Ludy spent the rest

0:29:37.440 --> 0:29:40.400
<v Speaker 2>of his life, which ended in twenty eleven, operating a

0:29:40.440 --> 0:29:43.920
<v Speaker 2>website where he raged against gun control. His main argument

0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:47.880
<v Speaker 2>was that England was headed for totalitarianism, and like Orwell,

0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:51.120
<v Speaker 2>he believed only public ownership of arms could prevent this.

0:29:51.840 --> 0:29:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Unlike Orwell, Ludy was firmly on the right wing. He

0:29:55.240 --> 0:29:59.760
<v Speaker 2>traced society's problems to quote a combination of political correctness

0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:03.320
<v Speaker 2>and anti freedom of speech laws legislation governing how we

0:30:03.400 --> 0:30:06.280
<v Speaker 2>speak about such subjects as religion or a person's race

0:30:06.640 --> 0:30:09.680
<v Speaker 2>being just two examples. Words and phrases that have been

0:30:09.760 --> 0:30:12.760
<v Speaker 2>used for centuries without malice are now insipid in people's

0:30:12.840 --> 0:30:15.400
<v Speaker 2>mouths and said to cause offence by those very same

0:30:15.480 --> 0:30:18.200
<v Speaker 2>speech police, who, on the other hand, turned a blind

0:30:18.240 --> 0:30:21.440
<v Speaker 2>eye to the violence, foul language, and sexual references blasted

0:30:21.480 --> 0:30:24.360
<v Speaker 2>daily through our TV sets, a phenomenon that really does

0:30:24.440 --> 0:30:28.120
<v Speaker 2>cause a fence to many people. Luty never succeeded in

0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:31.200
<v Speaker 2>sparking a renaissance and civilian arms ownership in the UK,

0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:35.160
<v Speaker 2>but his ideas were adopted by organized criminal groups all

0:30:35.200 --> 0:30:38.200
<v Speaker 2>around the world. In Brazil, looty guns can go for

0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:41.440
<v Speaker 2>as much as twenty five hundred dollars. From twenty eleven

0:30:41.480 --> 0:30:44.840
<v Speaker 2>to twenty twelve, nearly half of the submachine guns seized

0:30:44.840 --> 0:30:47.960
<v Speaker 2>by police in sal Polo were homemade. Most of these

0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:50.840
<v Speaker 2>arms were certainly used as tools by drug dealers or

0:30:50.880 --> 0:30:54.160
<v Speaker 2>other gangsters, but some of them were surely also the

0:30:54.200 --> 0:30:57.040
<v Speaker 2>tools of citizens who simply sought a way to defend

0:30:57.040 --> 0:30:59.760
<v Speaker 2>themselves in a place with no real rule of law.

0:31:00.760 --> 0:31:04.720
<v Speaker 2>Looty guns have long been popular among motorcycle gangs in Australia,

0:31:04.760 --> 0:31:08.320
<v Speaker 2>and in October of twenty nineteen, a fascist terrorist carried

0:31:08.320 --> 0:31:11.560
<v Speaker 2>out the last of that year's eight Chan shootings in Hulla,

0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:15.280
<v Speaker 2>Germany with a looty gun. His weapons, thankfully did not

0:31:15.440 --> 0:31:18.800
<v Speaker 2>work well. As a general rule, looty guns were never

0:31:18.880 --> 0:31:22.320
<v Speaker 2>going to be of much use to anyone besides organized criminals.

0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:25.520
<v Speaker 2>They aren't great in a gunfight, but you can use

0:31:25.520 --> 0:31:27.840
<v Speaker 2>them to spray bullets into a room or a vehicle

0:31:27.880 --> 0:31:31.840
<v Speaker 2>at close range pretty well. The year after Phil Loudy

0:31:31.960 --> 0:31:35.560
<v Speaker 2>died twenty twelve, a fellow named Cody Wilson decided to

0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:38.960
<v Speaker 2>carry on his work. Cody felt three D printing carried

0:31:39.000 --> 0:31:42.560
<v Speaker 2>the possibility of eventually manufacturing arms of a quality that

0:31:42.720 --> 0:31:46.760
<v Speaker 2>might rival traditionally produced guns. He started simple with a

0:31:46.760 --> 0:31:50.400
<v Speaker 2>single shot three eighty handgun based around the old Liberator

0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:54.120
<v Speaker 2>pistol from World War II. The Liberator had been a

0:31:54.160 --> 0:31:57.560
<v Speaker 2>single shot forty five caliber handgun meant to be dropped

0:31:57.560 --> 0:32:01.320
<v Speaker 2>into Nazi occupied territories and used by insurgents to stealthily

0:32:01.440 --> 0:32:05.640
<v Speaker 2>kill single German soldiers and take their guns. Cody Wilson

0:32:05.640 --> 0:32:08.920
<v Speaker 2>described himself as a crypto anarchist, and when his ideas

0:32:08.960 --> 0:32:11.200
<v Speaker 2>began to draw attention, he dropped out of law school

0:32:11.240 --> 0:32:15.240
<v Speaker 2>to create Defense Distributed. This organization was dedicated to the

0:32:15.280 --> 0:32:18.840
<v Speaker 2>development and distribution of plans to craft three D printed weapons.

0:32:19.160 --> 0:32:22.120
<v Speaker 2>It used a platform called death Cad to allow users

0:32:22.160 --> 0:32:25.480
<v Speaker 2>to develop and share blueprints. In twenty thirteen, the first

0:32:25.560 --> 0:32:29.400
<v Speaker 2>CAD gun file became available online to everyone. It was

0:32:29.400 --> 0:32:32.280
<v Speaker 2>downloaded more than one hundred thousand times in two days.

0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:34.440
<v Speaker 2>I'd like to quote now from an article on the

0:32:34.440 --> 0:32:38.440
<v Speaker 2>website three D Natives. This prompted the US government to

0:32:38.440 --> 0:32:41.160
<v Speaker 2>demand that Defense Distributed remove the file from their site.

0:32:41.240 --> 0:32:43.600
<v Speaker 2>What followed is a legal battle between Cody Wilson and

0:32:43.600 --> 0:32:46.600
<v Speaker 2>the US government, consisting of back and forth lawsuits. It

0:32:46.680 --> 0:32:50.080
<v Speaker 2>lasted five years until in twenty eighteen, the Trump administration

0:32:50.240 --> 0:32:53.400
<v Speaker 2>legalized three D printed guns. The same year, Wilson was

0:32:53.480 --> 0:32:56.000
<v Speaker 2>charged with sexual assault of an underage girl and had

0:32:56.000 --> 0:32:59.760
<v Speaker 2>to step down from Defense Distributed. Nonetheless, the organization did

0:32:59.760 --> 0:33:02.800
<v Speaker 2>not cease to exist without Cody. Today for a yearly

0:33:02.840 --> 0:33:05.560
<v Speaker 2>fee of fifty dollars. Users of the DEAFCAD website can

0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:08.719
<v Speaker 2>access the files containing different designs of three D printed guns.

0:33:09.200 --> 0:33:11.400
<v Speaker 2>And I should note here that it's probably more accurate

0:33:11.440 --> 0:33:14.680
<v Speaker 2>to say the Trump administration legalized sharing the plans and

0:33:14.800 --> 0:33:17.360
<v Speaker 2>printing the files and whatnot of three D printed guns,

0:33:17.360 --> 0:33:20.960
<v Speaker 2>not legalized three D printed guns. Homemade firearms have been

0:33:21.040 --> 0:33:25.080
<v Speaker 2>federally legal in the United States since forever. The fighting

0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:27.400
<v Speaker 2>in the courts over all this has continued ever since,

0:33:27.440 --> 0:33:30.600
<v Speaker 2>and in twenty nineteen, a federal judge in Seattle temporarily

0:33:30.640 --> 0:33:33.760
<v Speaker 2>blocked DEAFCAD. This sparked the creation of a new group,

0:33:33.880 --> 0:33:37.520
<v Speaker 2>de Terence Dispensed, which was even less centralized. The basic

0:33:37.600 --> 0:33:39.760
<v Speaker 2>idea was that this would make them harder to take

0:33:39.800 --> 0:33:43.440
<v Speaker 2>down via lawsuits or police action. Not stated was that

0:33:43.480 --> 0:33:47.040
<v Speaker 2>this might also protect their reputation from a Cody Wilson's situation.

0:33:47.760 --> 0:33:50.400
<v Speaker 2>The debate over the legality of three D printed firearm

0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:53.520
<v Speaker 2>plans continues on to the present day, but the development

0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:56.000
<v Speaker 2>of these arms has continued at an ever faster pace.

0:33:56.480 --> 0:33:59.360
<v Speaker 2>The best modern three D printed arms can even rival

0:33:59.400 --> 0:34:02.840
<v Speaker 2>conventional guns. It's worth emphasizing that these are not purely

0:34:02.880 --> 0:34:06.560
<v Speaker 2>plastic tools. The Liberator pistol used a metal nail, and

0:34:06.600 --> 0:34:09.399
<v Speaker 2>the better three D arms have metal barrels rifled using

0:34:09.440 --> 0:34:13.319
<v Speaker 2>other craft methods that require some nohow but arguably less

0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:16.360
<v Speaker 2>than it took to manufacture a looty gun. Three D

0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:19.080
<v Speaker 2>printed arms have been confiscated by police around the world,

0:34:19.239 --> 0:34:21.840
<v Speaker 2>but in recent months they've begun to crop up somewhere

0:34:21.880 --> 0:34:25.839
<v Speaker 2>new in the arms of revolutionaries fighting against a military coup.

0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Me and ma Berman before that, sad relatively strict gun

0:34:31.040 --> 0:34:34.240
<v Speaker 1>control laws for decades. When George Orwell was a policeman

0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:37.000
<v Speaker 1>there in the nineteen twenties, he may have carried a gun,

0:34:37.640 --> 0:34:40.480
<v Speaker 1>but the people he was policing did not. In the

0:34:40.560 --> 0:34:45.080
<v Speaker 1>nineteen thirties, the British leaders allowed tat organizations similar to

0:34:45.120 --> 0:34:48.319
<v Speaker 1>militias to form and drill, but they weren't allowed to

0:34:48.320 --> 0:34:53.760
<v Speaker 1>carry guns. Gun licenses under the dictatorship were issued primarily

0:34:53.840 --> 0:34:57.279
<v Speaker 1>to party members, but most were revoked after nineteen eighty

0:34:57.320 --> 0:35:01.440
<v Speaker 1>eight failed Pro democracy uprising. The only civilians who were

0:35:01.480 --> 0:35:04.640
<v Speaker 1>permitted to own arms through the Chin, the nation's poorous

0:35:04.680 --> 0:35:07.520
<v Speaker 1>ethnic group who rely on guns to hunt for food.

0:35:08.320 --> 0:35:11.239
<v Speaker 1>In many cases, these guns were flintlocks that would not

0:35:11.280 --> 0:35:12.799
<v Speaker 1>have looked that out of place on a battle till

0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:18.120
<v Speaker 1>two centuries before. In practice, though, things are very different.

0:35:19.080 --> 0:35:21.319
<v Speaker 1>The current conflict is best seen as a flare up

0:35:21.360 --> 0:35:23.640
<v Speaker 1>in violence, so it has been ongoing since Britain left

0:35:23.640 --> 0:35:27.719
<v Speaker 1>the country in nineteen forty seven. The Tatmador has consistently

0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:31.239
<v Speaker 1>used violence against marginalized ethnic groups in the country, and

0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:35.560
<v Speaker 1>they have consistently taken up arms in response. But unlike

0:35:35.600 --> 0:35:38.640
<v Speaker 1>civil wars in the Middle East, wealthy nations in the

0:35:38.680 --> 0:35:41.000
<v Speaker 1>West have not been flooding me and Mihle with weapons

0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:44.959
<v Speaker 1>for decades, and the various eos or ethnic armed organizations

0:35:45.120 --> 0:35:47.560
<v Speaker 1>have had to turn to much more unorthodox roots to

0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:50.759
<v Speaker 1>arm and equip selves against the government. To get a

0:35:50.760 --> 0:35:52.480
<v Speaker 1>better idea of what things are like on the ground,

0:35:52.719 --> 0:35:55.680
<v Speaker 1>we spoke to Pierre. He's French, but he's a serial

0:35:55.760 --> 0:35:59.040
<v Speaker 1>volunteer with national liberation struggles around the world. A fought

0:35:59.080 --> 0:36:01.680
<v Speaker 1>with the Korrenn people in the early two thousands.

0:36:02.280 --> 0:36:09.000
<v Speaker 4>Yes, so the ammunition is a constant problem. The shortage

0:36:09.120 --> 0:36:16.840
<v Speaker 4>is absolutely permanent, and yes, there is two sources for

0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:22.320
<v Speaker 4>the for the for the weapons, there is the black market,

0:36:22.520 --> 0:36:27.319
<v Speaker 4>and the prices, especially of ammunition, are prohibitive. This is

0:36:27.360 --> 0:36:32.000
<v Speaker 4>why I would like to have my notebook here with me,

0:36:32.120 --> 0:36:35.200
<v Speaker 4>because I think I wrote down the conversation I had

0:36:35.239 --> 0:36:40.280
<v Speaker 4>with some leaders of the kind at the time, asking

0:36:40.360 --> 0:36:43.759
<v Speaker 4>them why we didn't do more persons. But we just

0:36:43.800 --> 0:36:48.719
<v Speaker 4>can't afford it, you know, we just can't afford it.

0:36:48.800 --> 0:36:50.439
<v Speaker 8>Like strictly, we we don't.

0:36:50.480 --> 0:36:55.040
<v Speaker 4>We don't have enough ammunition to do any kind of

0:36:55.040 --> 0:36:56.760
<v Speaker 4>of operation.

0:36:56.520 --> 0:36:56.960
<v Speaker 8>We need to.

0:36:57.640 --> 0:37:01.200
<v Speaker 4>So all the operations we did well always focused on

0:37:01.880 --> 0:37:06.239
<v Speaker 4>if we could get cure some ammunition, if we could

0:37:06.239 --> 0:37:12.160
<v Speaker 4>cuture like weapons, but especially ammunition. Yeah, so there is

0:37:12.400 --> 0:37:15.600
<v Speaker 4>you know, that's that's the second source of of course,

0:37:15.680 --> 0:37:22.759
<v Speaker 4>of of weapons. Uh, let's say sources. The it's the

0:37:23.120 --> 0:37:28.360
<v Speaker 4>captures of course. Then the black markets. The black markets

0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:33.040
<v Speaker 4>used to be huge in Cambodia. I don't know what's

0:37:33.080 --> 0:37:35.960
<v Speaker 4>the situation now. That was in the nineties. That was

0:37:36.760 --> 0:37:40.239
<v Speaker 4>it was a bit of the Albania of sosieties at

0:37:40.239 --> 0:37:41.439
<v Speaker 4>this time, right.

0:37:42.360 --> 0:37:48.239
<v Speaker 9>And so there is also the other a ethnic groups

0:37:48.239 --> 0:37:54.600
<v Speaker 9>that receive sometimes say a lot of of.

0:37:56.440 --> 0:38:01.440
<v Speaker 4>Of arms and ammunition from sponsors. Okay, some of them,

0:38:01.520 --> 0:38:04.120
<v Speaker 4>like the Western dam is our sponsored by China. So

0:38:04.400 --> 0:38:09.440
<v Speaker 4>like their supply of ammunition. It's pretty good of weapons.

0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:16.080
<v Speaker 4>I think it's even cartolony and stuff. Then there is

0:38:16.640 --> 0:38:25.880
<v Speaker 4>also groups that also produced locally quite good. They're on arms,

0:38:26.480 --> 0:38:31.720
<v Speaker 4>light arms usually, so yeah, these are the different sources

0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:36.239
<v Speaker 4>of what comes to in the time I was there.

0:38:36.520 --> 0:38:38.799
<v Speaker 1>In the early weeks of the protests. Once I claim

0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:41.600
<v Speaker 1>clear that non violent demonstrators are going to be met

0:38:41.640 --> 0:38:46.719
<v Speaker 1>with state violence, protests began to fashion weapons. First, I

0:38:46.840 --> 0:38:50.719
<v Speaker 1>fought soldiers with assault rifles, using catapults and bows and arrows.

0:38:51.320 --> 0:38:55.399
<v Speaker 1>It was incredibly brave, but it wasn't very effective. By

0:38:55.440 --> 0:38:58.600
<v Speaker 1>the twenty eighth of March, protesters are taking a step

0:38:58.640 --> 0:39:02.480
<v Speaker 1>from the group calling itself the Calais Civil Army, set

0:39:02.560 --> 0:39:07.000
<v Speaker 1>up barricades and defended them using pressurized air rifles that

0:39:07.080 --> 0:39:11.239
<v Speaker 1>fired marbles and bicycle wheel bearings. The rifles all used

0:39:11.239 --> 0:39:15.120
<v Speaker 1>the same design and the same components. They were based

0:39:15.120 --> 0:39:18.320
<v Speaker 1>on a video someone found on YouTube, but they weren't lethal.

0:39:19.400 --> 0:39:23.120
<v Speaker 1>They helped protesters defend their space, albeit at a great cost,

0:39:24.040 --> 0:39:27.080
<v Speaker 1>and at first clash, four protesters and four soldiers were killed.

0:39:28.280 --> 0:39:30.040
<v Speaker 1>The protesters in Calais were able to hold out a

0:39:30.080 --> 0:39:33.319
<v Speaker 1>few days using old hunting rifles and air guns the

0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:37.799
<v Speaker 1>ambush military patrols and they took four police hostage. Then

0:39:37.840 --> 0:39:42.320
<v Speaker 1>they exchanged them for nine incarcerated protesters. But in early April,

0:39:42.360 --> 0:39:45.040
<v Speaker 1>the Tapmador returned to the protest camp in Calay with

0:39:45.200 --> 0:39:48.320
<v Speaker 1>rocket propelled grenades and machine guns and killed eleven people.

0:39:49.120 --> 0:39:52.200
<v Speaker 1>We must fight back against them. If not, our generation

0:39:52.360 --> 0:39:55.960
<v Speaker 1>will face a worse situation than us. They have no laws,

0:39:56.480 --> 0:40:00.560
<v Speaker 1>a neighborhood villager who battled the regime's forces told the Irrawoody,

0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:04.400
<v Speaker 1>a local paper. The air guns spread around the country quickly.

0:40:05.360 --> 0:40:08.920
<v Speaker 1>To avoid surveillance, protesters talked about cooking up berryani on

0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:12.360
<v Speaker 1>telegram channels, and what they meant was desperately scouring the

0:40:12.360 --> 0:40:14.799
<v Speaker 1>internet for a way to fight back and finding a

0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:17.360
<v Speaker 1>way to make an air rifle out of a buttane canister,

0:40:17.680 --> 0:40:22.480
<v Speaker 1>a pipe and a cigarette lighter, combined with fireworks and

0:40:22.560 --> 0:40:26.000
<v Speaker 1>smoke bombs made of potassium nitrate. The air rifle gave

0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:31.520
<v Speaker 1>protests just enough cupboard to escape police charges, but they

0:40:31.560 --> 0:40:35.280
<v Speaker 1>also gave the junta an excuse to further escalate the violence.

0:40:35.960 --> 0:40:39.879
<v Speaker 10>Attitudes are hardening among the protesters too. In Mandalay, they

0:40:39.920 --> 0:40:43.440
<v Speaker 10>took air rifles to the barricades on Saturday, hardly a

0:40:43.480 --> 0:40:46.480
<v Speaker 10>match for the weapons of war they face, but now

0:40:46.520 --> 0:40:49.880
<v Speaker 10>they know this is a fight to the death and

0:40:49.920 --> 0:40:54.920
<v Speaker 10>more destruction. After a fire raged in pg Dagon township overnight,

0:40:55.800 --> 0:40:59.800
<v Speaker 10>people living there but kept away by security forces returned

0:40:59.840 --> 0:41:03.399
<v Speaker 10>to find sixty homes burned to the ground. Now all

0:41:03.400 --> 0:41:05.880
<v Speaker 10>they can do is pick through the ashes, trying to

0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:09.800
<v Speaker 10>save anything from the military's policy of scorched earth.

0:41:10.840 --> 0:41:13.680
<v Speaker 2>Even the top Madaw makes its own weapons, a highly

0:41:13.760 --> 0:41:17.600
<v Speaker 2>unusual move for a relatively small nation. Topmada troops and

0:41:17.600 --> 0:41:20.600
<v Speaker 2>police can be seen with a bewildering array of indigenously

0:41:20.640 --> 0:41:23.640
<v Speaker 2>produced copies of M sixteen's oozies and even five five

0:41:23.719 --> 0:41:27.080
<v Speaker 2>six Galil pattern AK style rifles, as well as M

0:41:27.120 --> 0:41:30.239
<v Speaker 2>three light machine guns, which are slightly updated copies of

0:41:30.239 --> 0:41:32.719
<v Speaker 2>the MG forty two used by the Nazis in World

0:41:32.800 --> 0:41:36.640
<v Speaker 2>War Two. After the failed eight eight eight eight uprisings

0:41:36.640 --> 0:41:40.080
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen eighty eight, the military offered concessions to China

0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:43.120
<v Speaker 2>in return for more advanced weapons. They got them, but

0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:47.200
<v Speaker 2>it didn't stop China from also supplying ethnic armed organizations.

0:41:47.560 --> 0:41:50.560
<v Speaker 2>EAOs don't have access to the same munitions factories that

0:41:50.600 --> 0:41:53.000
<v Speaker 2>the government does. But there is a long tradition of

0:41:53.040 --> 0:41:56.760
<v Speaker 2>homemade weapons in Myanmar. In more remote parts of the country,

0:41:56.800 --> 0:41:59.640
<v Speaker 2>homemade air rifles and shotguns seem to have been relatively

0:41:59.680 --> 0:42:02.400
<v Speaker 2>common place before the start of the conflict, and they

0:42:02.400 --> 0:42:05.640
<v Speaker 2>were mostly used for hunting. The country is also covered

0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:08.440
<v Speaker 2>with land mines, which the EAOs used a great effect

0:42:08.440 --> 0:42:11.319
<v Speaker 2>against the top at all. We spoke to Pierre, a

0:42:11.320 --> 0:42:13.800
<v Speaker 2>former combatant with the KRIN who no longer lives in

0:42:13.880 --> 0:42:16.920
<v Speaker 2>me and Maar. His experience is not that recent, but

0:42:16.960 --> 0:42:19.600
<v Speaker 2>it helps us to understand the way this conflict has

0:42:19.640 --> 0:42:20.880
<v Speaker 2>been fought for decades.

0:42:21.239 --> 0:42:25.240
<v Speaker 4>What we used to to produce A lot of land mines,

0:42:25.760 --> 0:42:28.200
<v Speaker 4>that's that's produced at the base.

0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:34.040
<v Speaker 8>Yes, with like you know, very lot of systems. Is

0:42:34.440 --> 0:42:35.160
<v Speaker 8>a little bit of.

0:42:38.000 --> 0:42:41.000
<v Speaker 4>One type of plastic explosive, a couple of BOMBOO for

0:42:41.080 --> 0:42:41.799
<v Speaker 4>contactors and.

0:42:43.360 --> 0:42:44.600
<v Speaker 8>Batterie. That's it.

0:42:45.080 --> 0:42:48.280
<v Speaker 2>Pellet guns are not good for combat, and EAOs mostly

0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:52.440
<v Speaker 2>relied on weapons imported from Thailand, India or China. Overwhelmingly

0:42:52.640 --> 0:42:55.600
<v Speaker 2>these were ak or In sixteen pattern rifles.

0:42:55.960 --> 0:42:58.520
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, I mostly in my.

0:43:00.040 --> 0:43:03.799
<v Speaker 4>In the units have been there is probably a majority

0:43:03.880 --> 0:43:06.080
<v Speaker 4>of A platforms.

0:43:05.360 --> 0:43:09.600
<v Speaker 8>In this time. Yes, yeah, definitely. I mean, it's more

0:43:10.040 --> 0:43:13.360
<v Speaker 8>reliable and you know, simple to perate.

0:43:14.120 --> 0:43:18.560
<v Speaker 4>It's very adapted to the to the to.

0:43:18.719 --> 0:43:21.760
<v Speaker 8>The type of guerrilla it was. It was quite correct,

0:43:21.800 --> 0:43:22.240
<v Speaker 8>I mean.

0:43:25.200 --> 0:43:28.360
<v Speaker 4>From the moment that I switched to a case at least,

0:43:28.680 --> 0:43:32.520
<v Speaker 4>because at first I tried to use this creparency M

0:43:32.560 --> 0:43:40.960
<v Speaker 4>sixteen and it was a nightmare of malfunctions. So I

0:43:41.000 --> 0:43:45.160
<v Speaker 4>switched back to a case what I best know and

0:43:45.480 --> 0:43:53.160
<v Speaker 4>used doesn't have this. I never really.

0:43:52.960 --> 0:43:55.120
<v Speaker 8>Had any any malfunction with the case.

0:43:55.400 --> 0:43:57.880
<v Speaker 4>Maybe one time with a faulty lot of communition, but

0:43:57.960 --> 0:43:59.000
<v Speaker 4>that's it.

0:43:59.120 --> 0:43:59.640
<v Speaker 8>Not really the.

0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:03.600
<v Speaker 2>Rightful the fight, Pierre says, has never been restricted to

0:44:03.600 --> 0:44:06.160
<v Speaker 2>the battlefield for the top of the door. Violence against

0:44:06.200 --> 0:44:09.279
<v Speaker 2>civilians is part of their four cuts doctrine that cuts

0:44:09.320 --> 0:44:13.480
<v Speaker 2>off funding, food, intelligence, and recruits for the EAOs. Now

0:44:13.520 --> 0:44:16.320
<v Speaker 2>they are moving that same outlook to the cities.

0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:18.320
<v Speaker 8>Like literally.

0:44:19.640 --> 0:44:27.440
<v Speaker 4>Literally by by absolutely no euros of hels. I mean,

0:44:28.160 --> 0:44:30.239
<v Speaker 4>like one of the first things that I saw when

0:44:30.239 --> 0:44:34.960
<v Speaker 4>we went going patrolling in the in the Karen villages,

0:44:35.160 --> 0:44:42.680
<v Speaker 4>huh around a thousand of operation, is that there was

0:44:42.840 --> 0:44:48.680
<v Speaker 4>absolutely no girl between the edge of eleven to the

0:44:48.840 --> 0:44:52.960
<v Speaker 4>edge of seventeen. I was like, I asked you know,

0:44:53.600 --> 0:44:58.480
<v Speaker 4>my my commando about it, and he says, yeah, like

0:44:58.760 --> 0:45:01.560
<v Speaker 4>obviously if a stays, they will be rapped by the

0:45:01.600 --> 0:45:04.680
<v Speaker 4>tapmado and the first patrol like the first time they

0:45:04.680 --> 0:45:05.839
<v Speaker 4>will will come.

0:45:05.960 --> 0:45:06.120
<v Speaker 8>You know.

0:45:06.239 --> 0:45:08.120
<v Speaker 4>So this this gives you a little bit of the

0:45:08.200 --> 0:45:14.520
<v Speaker 4>tone of what they are about. They constantly ransom civilians

0:45:14.920 --> 0:45:21.320
<v Speaker 4>when they don't model them, like you know, shell villages

0:45:21.600 --> 0:45:25.360
<v Speaker 4>for norrision or because there had been an operation of

0:45:25.480 --> 0:45:28.719
<v Speaker 4>the kind of a and they take revenge and who

0:45:28.719 --> 0:45:31.120
<v Speaker 4>they can take revenge and with the civilians.

0:45:31.560 --> 0:45:34.080
<v Speaker 8>You know, this is this is how they be, This

0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:35.719
<v Speaker 8>is who they are. Basically.

0:45:36.360 --> 0:45:38.799
<v Speaker 2>The Topmadaw is a large army in many of the

0:45:38.840 --> 0:45:42.760
<v Speaker 2>conscripts are hardly high speed operator types, but that hasn't

0:45:42.800 --> 0:45:45.720
<v Speaker 2>stopped them from killing thousands of innocent civilians.

0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:50.920
<v Speaker 4>I mean they have as many army, different units with

0:45:51.280 --> 0:45:59.440
<v Speaker 4>different military value. Let's say, uh, you know, many times

0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:06.400
<v Speaker 4>the the units that they stuck on hilltop in the

0:46:06.440 --> 0:46:11.399
<v Speaker 4>middle of rebel zone are not like the most combative

0:46:12.200 --> 0:46:19.520
<v Speaker 4>let's say, but sometimes you will get surprised resistance. But yeah,

0:46:19.719 --> 0:46:26.680
<v Speaker 4>except for that, when they do an operation in in

0:46:26.719 --> 0:46:31.720
<v Speaker 4>a place, they bring in like more elite troops.

0:46:31.360 --> 0:46:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Let's say By contrast, the kN l A, the Karnean

0:46:35.520 --> 0:46:39.080
<v Speaker 2>National Liberation Army and other e aos relied on civilian

0:46:39.120 --> 0:46:40.240
<v Speaker 2>support to survive.

0:46:41.000 --> 0:46:44.839
<v Speaker 4>The Canada operates in in Karen.

0:46:46.239 --> 0:46:48.880
<v Speaker 8>Territory and the civilians are Karen.

0:46:49.239 --> 0:46:54.280
<v Speaker 4>I mean, uh pretty much when we when we arrive

0:46:54.360 --> 0:46:55.960
<v Speaker 4>in in the village.

0:46:56.040 --> 0:46:57.799
<v Speaker 8>As as medics, you know.

0:46:57.800 --> 0:47:06.960
<v Speaker 4>That with us take care of the population, distribute medicine. No,

0:47:07.520 --> 0:47:10.000
<v Speaker 4>like I don't know what to tell you, is like

0:47:10.520 --> 0:47:14.000
<v Speaker 4>quite it's quite a funny accusation coming from the technology.

0:47:14.360 --> 0:47:16.360
<v Speaker 2>This attitude has helped them, Per says, and they have

0:47:16.440 --> 0:47:18.799
<v Speaker 2>always been open to non current recruits.

0:47:19.080 --> 0:47:21.120
<v Speaker 8>First of all, it's not absolutely not.

0:47:22.840 --> 0:47:29.560
<v Speaker 4>That's some kind of ethnicist organization or ethno nationally, it's like,

0:47:29.960 --> 0:47:33.480
<v Speaker 4>you know, with some heat for I think group, including

0:47:33.880 --> 0:47:37.239
<v Speaker 4>the Obama I think group that like traditionally you know

0:47:40.320 --> 0:47:43.680
<v Speaker 4>are the leaders of the Tamadeo that have been oppressing

0:47:43.719 --> 0:47:45.280
<v Speaker 4>them for seventeen years.

0:47:45.280 --> 0:47:47.680
<v Speaker 8>But they have absolutely no resentment.

0:47:47.880 --> 0:47:53.480
<v Speaker 4>They are extremely open to work with Democrats, democratic forces

0:47:53.520 --> 0:47:55.840
<v Speaker 4>from every impacts.

0:47:55.920 --> 0:47:58.719
<v Speaker 2>Yes, since nineteen eighty eight, Per said, the k in

0:47:58.880 --> 0:48:01.440
<v Speaker 2>LA had been willing to link up with democratic rebels,

0:48:01.480 --> 0:48:03.840
<v Speaker 2>providing them with training and shelter in order to further

0:48:03.880 --> 0:48:06.759
<v Speaker 2>their shared goal of a federal and democratic country that

0:48:06.880 --> 0:48:08.680
<v Speaker 2>treated all ethnicities with respect.

0:48:09.000 --> 0:48:09.760
<v Speaker 8>So PDFs.

0:48:09.800 --> 0:48:15.000
<v Speaker 4>So these rebels, let's say, uh also trend by the

0:48:15.080 --> 0:48:18.319
<v Speaker 4>Karrents and uh so by people I know very well

0:48:18.400 --> 0:48:24.080
<v Speaker 4>since it was my commander then Nea. So I've seen

0:48:24.320 --> 0:48:31.759
<v Speaker 4>I've seen the Karrents. I've always been extremely accommodating to

0:48:31.320 --> 0:48:37.799
<v Speaker 4>the Bama opposition, meaning the Bamar, the main ethnic group

0:48:37.880 --> 0:48:41.759
<v Speaker 4>are I say this for people that might not know

0:48:41.880 --> 0:48:48.839
<v Speaker 4>the difference. And so the Karrents always add representation and

0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:55.200
<v Speaker 4>they took like you know, political refugees, let's say, from

0:48:56.200 --> 0:48:57.560
<v Speaker 4>from inside the.

0:48:57.800 --> 0:49:00.239
<v Speaker 8>Boma in the territory.

0:49:00.360 --> 0:49:04.440
<v Speaker 4>The control manor prose or was like the student association,

0:49:05.160 --> 0:49:07.160
<v Speaker 4>which exact na my cantricle right now.

0:49:07.480 --> 0:49:08.600
<v Speaker 8>But all these.

0:49:09.280 --> 0:49:13.759
<v Speaker 4>Organization of the position and so now they keep this

0:49:13.840 --> 0:49:20.400
<v Speaker 4>tradition by helping the UH, these new rebels of the

0:49:20.440 --> 0:49:22.920
<v Speaker 4>PDF to get military training.

0:49:24.000 --> 0:49:27.880
<v Speaker 2>And yes, by the summer of twenty twenty, young people

0:49:27.880 --> 0:49:30.080
<v Speaker 2>had fled into the Jungles, and many of them, even

0:49:30.120 --> 0:49:33.200
<v Speaker 2>the ones of Burman ethnicity, were fighting alongside the Karin

0:49:33.320 --> 0:49:37.200
<v Speaker 2>and Karni rebels they'd previously seen as troublemakers and terrorists

0:49:37.280 --> 0:49:39.839
<v Speaker 2>just a year or two before. We spoke with one

0:49:39.840 --> 0:49:43.080
<v Speaker 2>of these people, Zallin, who left his home in May

0:49:43.120 --> 0:49:44.120
<v Speaker 2>of twenty twenty one.

0:49:44.920 --> 0:49:49.279
<v Speaker 5>There were students, friends, but also young people from just

0:49:49.360 --> 0:49:54.480
<v Speaker 5>the neighborhood. Most people were just above twenty. A lot

0:49:54.520 --> 0:49:57.560
<v Speaker 5>of some were single. You know, there's women as well,

0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:06.000
<v Speaker 5>new technology, young people from the from the technology computer

0:50:06.920 --> 0:50:15.399
<v Speaker 5>apologists Whycott University. A lot of these people who knew

0:50:15.800 --> 0:50:20.040
<v Speaker 5>modern technology went into the jungle to go in the

0:50:20.120 --> 0:50:23.160
<v Speaker 5>jungle to train and be able to overthrow the men

0:50:23.200 --> 0:50:27.920
<v Speaker 5>online government. So there it was very tiring. We had

0:50:27.920 --> 0:50:30.640
<v Speaker 5>to go up and down a lot of hills. It

0:50:30.800 --> 0:50:34.960
<v Speaker 5>was two days of walking get there, going up and

0:50:35.000 --> 0:50:38.560
<v Speaker 5>down the hills and back down, up and down until

0:50:38.600 --> 0:50:39.719
<v Speaker 5>we got to the training plan.

0:50:54.040 --> 0:50:56.959
<v Speaker 2>Hey everyone, I'm Robert Evans, and welcome to episode three

0:50:57.239 --> 0:51:00.840
<v Speaker 2>of Printing the Revolution. Here's my partner, James Stout.

0:51:01.960 --> 0:51:04.880
<v Speaker 1>In the spring and summer of twenty twenty, millions of

0:51:04.880 --> 0:51:09.319
<v Speaker 1>Americans had versions of the same experience. State forces killed

0:51:09.320 --> 0:51:12.680
<v Speaker 1>the helpless man. Protesters took to the streets in anger,

0:51:13.200 --> 0:51:16.000
<v Speaker 1>and armed agents of the state responded with mass violence.

0:51:17.040 --> 0:51:19.680
<v Speaker 1>A lot of people's lives changed forever. In fairly short order.

0:51:21.239 --> 0:51:23.319
<v Speaker 1>What happened in Me and Mara after the military coup

0:51:23.760 --> 0:51:27.360
<v Speaker 1>was that story turned up to eleven within days. The

0:51:27.360 --> 0:51:31.239
<v Speaker 1>military had used live fire and demonstrators. Zor a Saurce

0:51:31.280 --> 0:51:34.359
<v Speaker 1>for today's episode. We're twenty two years old. At the time.

0:51:35.160 --> 0:51:37.919
<v Speaker 1>He spend his days working as a delivery driver, hang

0:51:38.000 --> 0:51:41.600
<v Speaker 1>out with his girlfriend playing video games. On the day

0:51:41.640 --> 0:51:45.360
<v Speaker 1>the coup started, he was playing pubg after a long shift.

0:51:47.160 --> 0:51:49.160
<v Speaker 1>Soon he and his girlfriend took to the streets with

0:51:49.200 --> 0:51:52.800
<v Speaker 1>thousands of other gen z Burmese kids. The state responded

0:51:52.840 --> 0:51:57.839
<v Speaker 1>with massacres, often firing automatic weapons into the crowds. Saw

0:51:57.840 --> 0:52:01.640
<v Speaker 1>Helen been particularly politically active before this moment. In fact,

0:52:02.040 --> 0:52:05.160
<v Speaker 1>he felt pretty poorly towards revolutionary supposing the government in

0:52:05.160 --> 0:52:08.319
<v Speaker 1>the jungle, seeing them as rebellious trouble makers.

0:52:09.120 --> 0:52:12.400
<v Speaker 5>In the past, we thought that the military is a

0:52:12.480 --> 0:52:15.680
<v Speaker 5>group that loves all the people, all the different groups

0:52:15.719 --> 0:52:18.920
<v Speaker 5>in the in the country, and then there's just a

0:52:19.000 --> 0:52:24.360
<v Speaker 5>few people who really hate the military, but especially after

0:52:24.440 --> 0:52:31.239
<v Speaker 5>the one who we face it with our own foreheads,

0:52:31.280 --> 0:52:35.280
<v Speaker 5>you know, with the guns we can face the evil

0:52:35.400 --> 0:52:39.080
<v Speaker 5>the military and all the human rights and things that

0:52:39.120 --> 0:52:41.920
<v Speaker 5>people who hated the military before we're talking about we

0:52:42.120 --> 0:52:46.880
<v Speaker 5>understand it now because we had to face it ourselves.

0:52:46.920 --> 0:52:49.280
<v Speaker 5>And then they're going to tell us terrorists, and however

0:52:49.360 --> 0:52:52.000
<v Speaker 5>must they call us. We know that we're finding for

0:52:52.200 --> 0:52:56.919
<v Speaker 5>human rights, and we know that each person deserves these

0:52:56.920 --> 0:53:02.280
<v Speaker 5>basic things, you know, So so even when we capture

0:53:02.480 --> 0:53:06.759
<v Speaker 5>a soldier, we don't kill them immediately that they're unarmed.

0:53:06.760 --> 0:53:10.239
<v Speaker 5>You know, when they capture a PDF, they torture and

0:53:10.320 --> 0:53:15.520
<v Speaker 5>kill them very very horrifically or horrendously, and they kill

0:53:15.640 --> 0:53:21.000
<v Speaker 5>and do hurt all the citizens and ordinary bystanders. So

0:53:21.200 --> 0:53:26.000
<v Speaker 5>for us, what they're calling as rebels before, we're not rebels.

0:53:26.520 --> 0:53:29.799
<v Speaker 5>They're the ones that are rebels, so we have to

0:53:29.840 --> 0:53:32.400
<v Speaker 5>call them rebels. They're the terrorists.

0:53:32.840 --> 0:53:36.880
<v Speaker 1>But as violence against protests escalated, so All began to

0:53:36.920 --> 0:53:39.359
<v Speaker 1>see through the lies he'd been told by the military.

0:53:39.040 --> 0:53:44.200
<v Speaker 5>Of his life. What we're calling as rebels are what

0:53:44.280 --> 0:53:47.640
<v Speaker 5>we kind of become. But we know why we are

0:53:47.680 --> 0:53:53.680
<v Speaker 5>now rebels. That's because of their terrorism, their oppressive reviews,

0:53:53.719 --> 0:53:56.680
<v Speaker 5>and their violation of human rights. That's why we have

0:53:56.760 --> 0:53:58.000
<v Speaker 5>to revolt against them.

0:53:58.480 --> 0:54:03.280
<v Speaker 1>For a time, protesters responded creatively with giant potato guns

0:54:03.400 --> 0:54:07.200
<v Speaker 1>meant to fire leslie to protect ours long distances. These

0:54:07.239 --> 0:54:10.200
<v Speaker 1>homemade guns will be fired in volleys. Well, other protested

0:54:10.320 --> 0:54:14.640
<v Speaker 1>protected them with shields. Some of these tactics were effective

0:54:14.640 --> 0:54:17.400
<v Speaker 1>a point, but it quickly became clear that the government

0:54:17.480 --> 0:54:20.440
<v Speaker 1>was willing to massacre everyone's standing up to them. So

0:54:20.840 --> 0:54:23.479
<v Speaker 1>his girlfriend and their friends quickly decided that non violent

0:54:23.560 --> 0:54:26.279
<v Speaker 1>resistance wasn't going to work, but they didn't give up.

0:54:26.680 --> 0:54:31.719
<v Speaker 5>As we get onto into June, there's two paths, right,

0:54:31.800 --> 0:54:35.600
<v Speaker 5>we can be normal, we can go on the streets,

0:54:36.200 --> 0:54:40.000
<v Speaker 5>we can ask for the people's power back, and since

0:54:40.120 --> 0:54:42.359
<v Speaker 5>that's not working, we know that what we have to

0:54:42.360 --> 0:54:45.239
<v Speaker 5>do is we need to hold these guns. Get these guns.

0:54:45.719 --> 0:54:49.279
<v Speaker 5>And on the military side, all they know is that

0:54:49.360 --> 0:54:53.359
<v Speaker 5>they will solve this by folding guns. So the only thing,

0:54:53.680 --> 0:54:55.919
<v Speaker 5>the only path that's left for us is to take

0:54:55.960 --> 0:55:00.960
<v Speaker 5>those guns for ourselves. So around the end of we

0:55:01.000 --> 0:55:06.000
<v Speaker 5>started entering training school. So the downtoy is what the

0:55:06.000 --> 0:55:10.879
<v Speaker 5>word we use, and it's something like this corner part

0:55:11.760 --> 0:55:16.520
<v Speaker 5>so one corner part one to do so talking. What

0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:19.839
<v Speaker 5>that means is that in the huntings huntings that we

0:55:19.840 --> 0:55:23.200
<v Speaker 5>were doing, hunting rifles that we were using for that.

0:55:24.239 --> 0:55:27.360
<v Speaker 5>So we kind of start started, and we fought first

0:55:27.360 --> 0:55:32.080
<v Speaker 5>and demoso, if we can ask the military nicely, then

0:55:32.120 --> 0:55:35.480
<v Speaker 5>there's no reason for us to be using guns. But

0:55:35.600 --> 0:55:38.839
<v Speaker 5>since they don't listen to our demands or our requests

0:55:39.239 --> 0:55:42.799
<v Speaker 5>at all, then and since that all we can do,

0:55:43.200 --> 0:55:46.040
<v Speaker 5>all they are saying, all they're doing is using the

0:55:46.080 --> 0:55:49.759
<v Speaker 5>guns and being terrorists trying to shoot us. So the

0:55:49.800 --> 0:55:51.959
<v Speaker 5>only thing that we can do to get what we

0:55:52.040 --> 0:55:54.720
<v Speaker 5>need and what we want is to take the guns

0:55:54.800 --> 0:55:55.600
<v Speaker 5>for ourselves.

0:55:55.880 --> 0:55:58.560
<v Speaker 1>And so, like hundreds of people, is age. So All

0:55:58.640 --> 0:56:01.960
<v Speaker 1>headed into the jungle in May twenty twenty one. The

0:56:02.040 --> 0:56:05.080
<v Speaker 1>decision wasn't an over night one or an easy one.

0:56:05.160 --> 0:56:09.160
<v Speaker 1>But after protesting non violently, then meeting state violence with

0:56:09.239 --> 0:56:13.280
<v Speaker 1>community defense, then seeing his peers gunned down in the street,

0:56:14.000 --> 0:56:17.120
<v Speaker 1>he didn't have many other choices. He'd picked up a megaphone,

0:56:17.719 --> 0:56:20.360
<v Speaker 1>then a shield, and now he was heading in the

0:56:20.440 --> 0:56:23.880
<v Speaker 1>jungle to pick up a rifle. The only problem was

0:56:23.880 --> 0:56:25.160
<v Speaker 1>that there weren't any rifles.

0:56:26.360 --> 0:56:29.160
<v Speaker 2>He left with his girlfriend and quote with the blessing

0:56:29.200 --> 0:56:32.279
<v Speaker 2>of his parents. Keep that in mind for later. When

0:56:32.280 --> 0:56:34.440
<v Speaker 2>he first went to the jungle, Zall went to a

0:56:34.440 --> 0:56:37.280
<v Speaker 2>two week training camp where the Karni People's Defense Force

0:56:37.320 --> 0:56:40.120
<v Speaker 2>taught him the basics of guerrilla warfare, but they didn't

0:56:40.160 --> 0:56:43.200
<v Speaker 2>have enough weapons to arm him and his friends. So

0:56:43.560 --> 0:56:46.839
<v Speaker 2>these Ginz militants began their fighting careers with twenty two

0:56:46.960 --> 0:56:50.480
<v Speaker 2>caliber rifles. If you aren't a gun person, the twenty

0:56:50.480 --> 0:56:53.799
<v Speaker 2>two was one of the smallest widely available bullets. Like

0:56:53.840 --> 0:56:56.600
<v Speaker 2>any bullet, it can kill, but as a caliber it's

0:56:56.640 --> 0:57:00.919
<v Speaker 2>better suited for shooting rabbits than soldiers. Two rifles were

0:57:00.920 --> 0:57:04.000
<v Speaker 2>handmade locally and only fired one shot at a time,

0:57:04.520 --> 0:57:07.000
<v Speaker 2>but it was those rifles that Zaw, his girlfriend, and

0:57:07.040 --> 0:57:10.360
<v Speaker 2>their friends carried into their first gunfight with the Tautmadaw.

0:57:11.160 --> 0:57:14.520
<v Speaker 2>After battling like that for about three weeks, the shooting stopped,

0:57:14.640 --> 0:57:17.920
<v Speaker 2>he said in an interview we conducted over signal. After

0:57:17.920 --> 0:57:20.840
<v Speaker 2>the shooting stopped, we grouped together money to buy arms

0:57:20.840 --> 0:57:24.960
<v Speaker 2>by asking for donations. They were massively outgunned, but determined

0:57:25.000 --> 0:57:26.840
<v Speaker 2>to fight on with the weapons they could make and

0:57:26.920 --> 0:57:29.920
<v Speaker 2>buy on the black market until they could find something better,

0:57:30.240 --> 0:57:33.640
<v Speaker 2>even if that meant taking guns from dead soldiers. The

0:57:33.680 --> 0:57:36.600
<v Speaker 2>military's guns are extremely good, of course, compared to point

0:57:36.640 --> 0:57:39.520
<v Speaker 2>two two's, he said. We fight with the mindset that

0:57:39.560 --> 0:57:41.960
<v Speaker 2>we must win our minds are always prepared to take

0:57:42.040 --> 0:57:44.800
<v Speaker 2>their guns when a soldier falls. It's a mindset to

0:57:44.840 --> 0:57:47.400
<v Speaker 2>want the enemy's arms to beat your own arms. You

0:57:47.480 --> 0:57:50.560
<v Speaker 2>need to want to resist injustice. Because we are fighting

0:57:50.600 --> 0:57:52.880
<v Speaker 2>for what is right. We do not get sad even

0:57:52.920 --> 0:57:55.600
<v Speaker 2>if we die. We are happy, even when wounded. We

0:57:55.680 --> 0:58:01.080
<v Speaker 2>no longer care if our arms are matched. Unevenly their enthusiasm,

0:58:01.160 --> 0:58:04.080
<v Speaker 2>PDF units all over the country were finding themselves in

0:58:04.120 --> 0:58:07.360
<v Speaker 2>the same desperate situation. When thousands of young people in

0:58:07.360 --> 0:58:09.919
<v Speaker 2>Menmar decided to take up arms against the government, they're

0:58:09.960 --> 0:58:13.320
<v Speaker 2>just warn enough guns to go around. Ak pattern rifles

0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:15.800
<v Speaker 2>sell for three thousand dollars on the black market, and

0:58:16.160 --> 0:58:19.720
<v Speaker 2>ar's sell for up to seven thousand dollars. The GDP

0:58:19.880 --> 0:58:22.800
<v Speaker 2>per capita in twenty twenty was just twelve hundred and

0:58:22.840 --> 0:58:26.400
<v Speaker 2>eighteen dollars and thirty five cents per person, and unlike

0:58:26.440 --> 0:58:30.000
<v Speaker 2>militias in Syria and Iraq, the pro democracy EAOs and

0:58:30.040 --> 0:58:34.120
<v Speaker 2>Myanmar don't have the benefit questionable benefit of the US

0:58:34.280 --> 0:58:37.960
<v Speaker 2>flooding the region with its fire hose of guns and money. Undeterred,

0:58:38.080 --> 0:58:40.320
<v Speaker 2>Zaw and his squad took to YouTube, where they found

0:58:40.400 --> 0:58:43.400
<v Speaker 2>videos explaining how to make two two three caliber bolt

0:58:43.440 --> 0:58:46.800
<v Speaker 2>action rifles. Again, if you're not a gun person, two

0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:49.600
<v Speaker 2>two three may not sound very different than twenty two,

0:58:49.680 --> 0:58:52.520
<v Speaker 2>But whereas twenty two is commonly used to shoot squirrels,

0:58:52.800 --> 0:58:55.400
<v Speaker 2>two two three is the standard rifle round more or

0:58:55.480 --> 0:58:58.520
<v Speaker 2>less for the US military. These new bolt action two

0:58:58.600 --> 0:59:01.120
<v Speaker 2>two threes Zaw and his friends were making could not

0:59:01.360 --> 0:59:03.720
<v Speaker 2>match the rate of fire of a modern rifle, but

0:59:03.760 --> 0:59:06.480
<v Speaker 2>they could at least match those rifles in stopping power.

0:59:07.240 --> 0:59:10.080
<v Speaker 2>Once these gen z insurgeons had the technique down, they

0:59:10.120 --> 0:59:13.280
<v Speaker 2>created a detailed album on Facebook showing how everything from

0:59:13.320 --> 0:59:16.040
<v Speaker 2>the stalk to the barrel could be made with pipes, lumber,

0:59:16.120 --> 0:59:19.840
<v Speaker 2>and hours and hours of detailed hard work. Unlike their

0:59:19.840 --> 0:59:22.400
<v Speaker 2>guerrilla warfare instructors, these kids had grown up on the

0:59:22.440 --> 0:59:24.880
<v Speaker 2>Internet rather than the jungle, so they knew that if

0:59:24.920 --> 0:59:28.280
<v Speaker 2>it exists, there's a subreddit for it. It was the

0:59:28.280 --> 0:59:31.480
<v Speaker 2>Internet that came to their rescue. Three D printed guns

0:59:31.480 --> 0:59:33.760
<v Speaker 2>have been around for a decade, but the early models

0:59:33.760 --> 0:59:36.680
<v Speaker 2>didn't work well and suffered from a pretty bad reputation

0:59:37.160 --> 0:59:40.840
<v Speaker 2>due in part to Cody Wilson, the pedophile libertarian activists

0:59:40.880 --> 0:59:44.360
<v Speaker 2>we discussed last episode. Jake Hanrahan of Popular Front has

0:59:44.400 --> 0:59:46.520
<v Speaker 2>covered the printed gun movement extensively.

0:59:46.920 --> 0:59:49.480
<v Speaker 11>Cody Wilson mighte his whole thing like, I'm the guy

0:59:49.520 --> 0:59:51.520
<v Speaker 11>with the three D printed guns, and he was on

0:59:51.560 --> 0:59:54.919
<v Speaker 11>this moral CRUs side. The three D printed gun lads,

0:59:54.920 --> 0:59:57.480
<v Speaker 11>particularly Determs Dispense, well, like, yeah, don't give a shit

0:59:57.480 --> 1:00:00.200
<v Speaker 11>about that. We just putting our stuff out into the world. See,

1:00:00.200 --> 1:00:02.000
<v Speaker 11>they got the ideas, but they weren't really wedded to

1:00:02.040 --> 1:00:04.160
<v Speaker 11>this idea of it being one person.

1:00:04.680 --> 1:00:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Deterrens Dispensed was a group of anonymous activists who were

1:00:07.720 --> 1:00:10.520
<v Speaker 2>more concerned with making printed guns that worked than making

1:00:10.560 --> 1:00:14.200
<v Speaker 2>a name for themselves. Hamrahan was connected to one activist

1:00:14.280 --> 1:00:17.120
<v Speaker 2>who used the pseudonym j Stark through the group, and

1:00:17.200 --> 1:00:20.760
<v Speaker 2>after three years of conversing online, Hamrahan met Stark in

1:00:20.800 --> 1:00:24.160
<v Speaker 2>Germany to produce a documentary. Jay Stark died of a

1:00:24.160 --> 1:00:27.120
<v Speaker 2>heart attack following a police raid last year, So we

1:00:27.160 --> 1:00:29.640
<v Speaker 2>spoke to Hanrahan about Stark's worldview.

1:00:30.080 --> 1:00:33.920
<v Speaker 11>His whole worldview comes from this idea that you know,

1:00:34.360 --> 1:00:37.600
<v Speaker 11>it's everybody should have the right to be able to

1:00:37.680 --> 1:00:42.440
<v Speaker 11>fight tyranny, and if you can't fight tyranny, like you're fucked.

1:00:42.440 --> 1:00:44.520
<v Speaker 11>And the way to fight tyranny in the modern era

1:00:44.840 --> 1:00:45.720
<v Speaker 11>is firearms.

1:00:45.760 --> 1:00:47.320
<v Speaker 8>We know that. You know, there's there's.

1:00:47.120 --> 1:00:50.439
<v Speaker 11>No you can't argue it's there's no peaceful march gets

1:00:50.520 --> 1:00:54.040
<v Speaker 11>rid of a fascist dictatorship or whatever. But he he was,

1:00:55.080 --> 1:00:57.200
<v Speaker 11>he he was you know, some people would say he

1:00:57.280 --> 1:00:59.320
<v Speaker 11>was far right, some people say he was an anarchist.

1:00:59.320 --> 1:01:02.400
<v Speaker 11>Some people say he was a US patriot type. I mean, first,

1:01:02.440 --> 1:01:04.720
<v Speaker 11>he wasn't even from America, and he had a lot

1:01:04.720 --> 1:01:07.160
<v Speaker 11>of he liked the laws in America, but he wasn't

1:01:07.200 --> 1:01:09.840
<v Speaker 11>like some of the American kind of fan boy or

1:01:09.840 --> 1:01:13.280
<v Speaker 11>anything on that sense. He liked the gun laws. He

1:01:13.360 --> 1:01:15.280
<v Speaker 11>liked the freedom of speech lords, which I do as well.

1:01:15.320 --> 1:01:18.040
<v Speaker 11>You know, like personally I in this country. You know,

1:01:18.040 --> 1:01:20.280
<v Speaker 11>if you tweet the wrong thing, even in jest, like

1:01:20.400 --> 1:01:22.360
<v Speaker 11>police will literally come to your house in Britain like

1:01:22.440 --> 1:01:25.800
<v Speaker 11>it's happened, it's fucking mental. So yeah, he liked that

1:01:25.920 --> 1:01:29.560
<v Speaker 11>kind of thing, and I think I think for him

1:01:30.080 --> 1:01:33.000
<v Speaker 11>it was he was very tonal vision. You know, he

1:01:33.080 --> 1:01:35.400
<v Speaker 11>was a very tonal vision. It was just freedom, freedom

1:01:35.400 --> 1:01:37.200
<v Speaker 11>of freedom, and if you said, well what about this,

1:01:37.280 --> 1:01:38.840
<v Speaker 11>what about that? He was like, I don't care about

1:01:38.880 --> 1:01:41.760
<v Speaker 11>that until the freedom is there, there's no point looking

1:01:41.800 --> 1:01:44.120
<v Speaker 11>at anything else, and so his brain was always on

1:01:44.480 --> 1:01:46.440
<v Speaker 11>people that are living under tyranny, you know, and it

1:01:46.520 --> 1:01:49.680
<v Speaker 11>genuinely was. I know, there's a lot of people, even leftists,

1:01:49.680 --> 1:01:52.960
<v Speaker 11>particularly leftists, that tried to completely smear him as a

1:01:53.000 --> 1:01:55.360
<v Speaker 11>white supremacist. They were saying, oh, everything he said in

1:01:55.400 --> 1:01:58.320
<v Speaker 11>that doc that I made was really he was secret

1:01:59.000 --> 1:02:02.160
<v Speaker 11>anti Jewish white supremacy. And then it came out that

1:02:02.200 --> 1:02:03.640
<v Speaker 11>he wasn't even white.

1:02:03.720 --> 1:02:03.880
<v Speaker 8>You know.

1:02:03.960 --> 1:02:06.120
<v Speaker 11>It says like very good, very good, you fucking idiots.

1:02:06.160 --> 1:02:07.800
<v Speaker 11>So there was a lot of that going around. But

1:02:07.840 --> 1:02:11.760
<v Speaker 11>I honestly believe that deep down he was just tunnel

1:02:11.800 --> 1:02:15.600
<v Speaker 11>vision focused on this idea of every until everybody is

1:02:15.640 --> 1:02:17.920
<v Speaker 11>not living under tyranny, I must go on this mission.

1:02:18.240 --> 1:02:20.760
<v Speaker 11>And Okay, if someone shoots up at school with what

1:02:20.800 --> 1:02:22.880
<v Speaker 11>I've invented, so be it. You know, which I'm not

1:02:22.880 --> 1:02:25.600
<v Speaker 11>saying that's good, but that was just his idea.

1:02:25.640 --> 1:02:25.800
<v Speaker 8>You know.

1:02:25.880 --> 1:02:27.960
<v Speaker 11>He was like, so be it, fuck it if I can.

1:02:28.520 --> 1:02:30.280
<v Speaker 11>You know, he was very genuine when he was on

1:02:30.400 --> 1:02:32.560
<v Speaker 11>about the wigas, or he was on about the mistreatment

1:02:32.600 --> 1:02:34.800
<v Speaker 11>of Kurds from Turkey, and you know, he was like, look,

1:02:34.800 --> 1:02:37.200
<v Speaker 11>if we can build something that can help them. Well,

1:02:37.240 --> 1:02:39.280
<v Speaker 11>sorry that the West might get fucked up because of it,

1:02:39.320 --> 1:02:43.240
<v Speaker 11>but I'm focused on this now. Obviously, in practice that

1:02:43.320 --> 1:02:47.680
<v Speaker 11>would be chaos probably, But you know, he just saw

1:02:47.680 --> 1:02:48.920
<v Speaker 11>it the way he saw it, and that was that.

1:02:49.600 --> 1:02:52.680
<v Speaker 2>The cavalier attitude Stark seems to have had how his

1:02:52.760 --> 1:02:55.720
<v Speaker 2>invention might be used is of course worthy of criticism.

1:02:56.120 --> 1:02:58.480
<v Speaker 2>But the revolutionaries on the ground in me Anmar were

1:02:58.480 --> 1:03:01.440
<v Speaker 2>not concerned with ideal life logical debates over the ethics

1:03:01.440 --> 1:03:04.919
<v Speaker 2>of homemade firearms. They needed guns, and they needed them now.

1:03:05.800 --> 1:03:09.440
<v Speaker 2>J Stark's FGC nine, which stands for Fuck Gun Control

1:03:09.560 --> 1:03:12.520
<v Speaker 2>nine millimeter, was simple to make, easy to use, and

1:03:12.560 --> 1:03:15.440
<v Speaker 2>relied entirely on parts you could print or buy in

1:03:15.600 --> 1:03:18.920
<v Speaker 2>any hardware store. In September of twenty twenty one, a

1:03:18.960 --> 1:03:21.880
<v Speaker 2>post popped up on the foss cads subreddit, which is

1:03:21.920 --> 1:03:25.280
<v Speaker 2>dedicated to the manufacturing of three D printed guns. Stark

1:03:25.520 --> 1:03:28.720
<v Speaker 2>is a hero there. The post said, wanted to say

1:03:28.760 --> 1:03:31.280
<v Speaker 2>thanks to this community, the creators of FGC nine and

1:03:31.320 --> 1:03:34.040
<v Speaker 2>the various mods when we could, you guys are literally

1:03:34.080 --> 1:03:37.160
<v Speaker 2>empowering the armed revolution against dictators in one of the

1:03:37.200 --> 1:03:40.919
<v Speaker 2>most underdeveloped countries. We are now equipped with FGC nine

1:03:40.960 --> 1:03:43.960
<v Speaker 2>and starting the armed revolution to the coup leader dictator.

1:03:44.880 --> 1:03:47.880
<v Speaker 2>As one poster comments, the account quote went from posting

1:03:47.880 --> 1:03:50.520
<v Speaker 2>about mobile games to how to three D print SMGs

1:03:50.600 --> 1:03:53.360
<v Speaker 2>to desperately asking people to pay attention what was happening

1:03:53.400 --> 1:03:56.680
<v Speaker 2>in me and mar Then after the FGC nine post

1:03:56.920 --> 1:04:01.520
<v Speaker 2>it was deleted entirely. Never lived to see this.

1:04:02.440 --> 1:04:06.040
<v Speaker 11>He would have loved it. What everything that he was doing.

1:04:07.240 --> 1:04:10.040
<v Speaker 11>That was the main focus in my opinion, that like,

1:04:10.120 --> 1:04:15.960
<v Speaker 11>it couldn't be a more perfect, like practical actual realization

1:04:16.080 --> 1:04:19.320
<v Speaker 11>of its project. You couldn't pick a more perfect version

1:04:19.720 --> 1:04:22.480
<v Speaker 11>of it to happen like that, you know. And there's

1:04:22.520 --> 1:04:24.080
<v Speaker 11>a lot of talk of oh where there's a lot

1:04:24.120 --> 1:04:27.480
<v Speaker 11>of drug dealers in Amsterdam. I have FGC nine's. There

1:04:27.520 --> 1:04:29.760
<v Speaker 11>was a NATS he recently arrested with one.

1:04:30.200 --> 1:04:30.400
<v Speaker 8>You know.

1:04:30.560 --> 1:04:34.200
<v Speaker 11>These people are awful, of course, But the most prevalent

1:04:34.520 --> 1:04:37.440
<v Speaker 11>use of the FGC nine, at least from what I've observed,

1:04:37.760 --> 1:04:41.000
<v Speaker 11>has been from the rebels in my Ammam making them.

1:04:41.000 --> 1:04:43.040
<v Speaker 11>I think I've seen like thirty of them so far,

1:04:43.360 --> 1:04:44.840
<v Speaker 11>you know, that's a lot of them, And there was

1:04:44.840 --> 1:04:47.480
<v Speaker 11>one was found stashed in a bush. My theory is

1:04:47.520 --> 1:04:49.880
<v Speaker 11>they're left around for ambush attacks and areas that are

1:04:49.920 --> 1:04:53.480
<v Speaker 11>not as fully controlled by the rebels.

1:04:54.320 --> 1:04:59.040
<v Speaker 1>Fostcred, a community of mostly US based gun printers, lost

1:04:59.040 --> 1:05:02.040
<v Speaker 1>its collective mind, and it didn't take long for people

1:05:02.040 --> 1:05:04.480
<v Speaker 1>to make the connection between the post and a desperate

1:05:04.520 --> 1:05:08.760
<v Speaker 1>plight of me and Mars Spring Revolution. Soon after the post,

1:05:09.040 --> 1:05:13.560
<v Speaker 1>the Tatmador started posting pictures of FGC nines, often without sights,

1:05:13.920 --> 1:05:18.120
<v Speaker 1>captured from fighters in Yangon. On the twenty first of September,

1:05:18.880 --> 1:05:24.280
<v Speaker 1>Tatmador's Ministry of Information released a statement I Miat Thwei

1:05:24.760 --> 1:05:28.720
<v Speaker 1>and Ye mint Ang were found with an FGC nine

1:05:28.760 --> 1:05:33.400
<v Speaker 1>Mark two pistol five rounds of nine millimeters ammunition. They

1:05:33.400 --> 1:05:38.400
<v Speaker 1>were arrested along with their drone. The military alleged they

1:05:38.400 --> 1:05:41.000
<v Speaker 1>were in an urban unit from the same generation z

1:05:41.000 --> 1:05:44.480
<v Speaker 1>E Freedom ARMI that Zor was a part of. That

1:05:44.640 --> 1:05:48.200
<v Speaker 1>same month, the military posted pictures of three more captured

1:05:48.240 --> 1:05:52.200
<v Speaker 1>FGC nines, suggesting that at least five have been captured

1:05:52.240 --> 1:05:57.600
<v Speaker 1>by late September. Then two months later, a new post

1:05:57.600 --> 1:06:01.960
<v Speaker 1>popped up and the foscad subreddit, Hey I'm back, and

1:06:02.080 --> 1:06:03.760
<v Speaker 1>the guy who posted a thank you note back in

1:06:03.800 --> 1:06:07.760
<v Speaker 1>September here Now that the FGC nines are ready known

1:06:07.800 --> 1:06:10.480
<v Speaker 1>by the dictator, I can proudly announce that we're from

1:06:10.480 --> 1:06:14.040
<v Speaker 1>me and marh. Yes, we are mass producing FGC nines

1:06:14.080 --> 1:06:17.240
<v Speaker 1>to fight back against the Dictator. More info about our

1:06:17.240 --> 1:06:21.880
<v Speaker 1>production will be published later this time, the user u

1:06:21.960 --> 1:06:28.120
<v Speaker 1>slash daddy UMCD hung around to answer questions. Those basters

1:06:28.160 --> 1:06:30.400
<v Speaker 1>didn't know we had the tech back then. Now that

1:06:30.440 --> 1:06:33.000
<v Speaker 1>everything is in public, we can proudly say we're from

1:06:33.040 --> 1:06:36.600
<v Speaker 1>me and Mar. We are mostly responsible for production and

1:06:36.760 --> 1:06:39.640
<v Speaker 1>R and D, even though we also involved in other

1:06:39.720 --> 1:06:42.760
<v Speaker 1>ground missions. We distribute the FDC nine to a lot

1:06:42.760 --> 1:06:46.400
<v Speaker 1>of different urban guerrillas in urban and rural areas. Some

1:06:46.480 --> 1:06:48.919
<v Speaker 1>of the units got arrested a few weeks ago, which

1:06:48.920 --> 1:06:51.720
<v Speaker 1>you might have already seen on the subreddit. Apart from

1:06:51.760 --> 1:06:54.760
<v Speaker 1>the FGC nine, there are other equipments and weapons that

1:06:54.800 --> 1:06:58.080
<v Speaker 1>are being produced with three D printers, he wrote. He

1:06:58.120 --> 1:07:02.000
<v Speaker 1>said his team we're residing in ethnic armed organization areas,

1:07:02.560 --> 1:07:06.360
<v Speaker 1>mainly the Koren National Union and the Kachin Independence Army

1:07:06.640 --> 1:07:10.520
<v Speaker 1>controlled zones. He posted that they'd tried other three D

1:07:10.560 --> 1:07:13.920
<v Speaker 1>printer designs, such as the PLASTICOV, which is a printed

1:07:14.040 --> 1:07:17.520
<v Speaker 1>AK forty seven receiver, but getting the other parts made

1:07:17.560 --> 1:07:21.760
<v Speaker 1>it impractical. By contrast, the FGC nine could be made

1:07:21.960 --> 1:07:25.320
<v Speaker 1>entirely using a three D printer and some hardware store parts.

1:07:26.400 --> 1:07:29.800
<v Speaker 1>According to another source, ME and Mars small motorcycle repair

1:07:29.800 --> 1:07:32.080
<v Speaker 1>shops made quick work at the metal barrels and bolts.

1:07:32.600 --> 1:07:36.880
<v Speaker 1>Electrochemical machining was used to make more barrels. They also

1:07:36.960 --> 1:07:39.640
<v Speaker 1>had the chance to buy a few clock barrels from Thailand,

1:07:40.200 --> 1:07:43.520
<v Speaker 1>Daddy UMCD said, but those cost a lot more than

1:07:43.520 --> 1:07:48.680
<v Speaker 1>the FGC nine barrels. While his account continued to post,

1:07:49.080 --> 1:07:52.240
<v Speaker 1>the military continued to share photos of captured FGC nines.

1:07:53.480 --> 1:07:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Three workshops that have been using lathes to make the

1:07:55.840 --> 1:07:59.040
<v Speaker 1>barrels for raided. A photos of three more captured guns

1:07:59.080 --> 1:08:03.560
<v Speaker 1>popped up in November, alongside bolt action rifles. It still

1:08:03.600 --> 1:08:06.000
<v Speaker 1>had stickers on their stocks from what looked like US

1:08:06.080 --> 1:08:12.120
<v Speaker 1>gun shops. Production and decentralized locations continued despite the raids,

1:08:12.920 --> 1:08:16.679
<v Speaker 1>while other groups fought on with homemade revolving rifles, crewde

1:08:16.760 --> 1:08:22.360
<v Speaker 1>homemade wooden stocks, and other improvised weapons. A telegram channel

1:08:22.360 --> 1:08:25.120
<v Speaker 1>with instructions in Burmese on how to make the guns

1:08:25.160 --> 1:08:27.920
<v Speaker 1>made sure that even when one shop or gunsmith was

1:08:27.920 --> 1:08:31.599
<v Speaker 1>taken out of the fight. The knowledge wasn't lost. Although

1:08:31.680 --> 1:08:34.960
<v Speaker 1>filament for their three D printers were becoming harder to get,

1:08:35.320 --> 1:08:40.760
<v Speaker 1>they'd stockpiled a lot in advance. Daddy UMCD tried to

1:08:40.800 --> 1:08:46.120
<v Speaker 1>manufacture automatic FGC nines and another printable model called Professor

1:08:46.120 --> 1:08:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Parabellum Square tubes are machine gun, but nothing else seemed

1:08:49.840 --> 1:08:53.240
<v Speaker 1>as easier as reliable as the FGC nun Of course

1:08:53.760 --> 1:08:56.160
<v Speaker 1>read it. Being read it, people questioned the veracity and

1:08:56.280 --> 1:09:01.240
<v Speaker 1>utility of his posts. He responded, FDC nines are just

1:09:01.280 --> 1:09:03.600
<v Speaker 1>part of the game because they could be produced with

1:09:03.680 --> 1:09:06.800
<v Speaker 1>what we have are the lowest cost available rifles of

1:09:06.840 --> 1:09:09.479
<v Speaker 1>four thousand to seven thousand US dollars at our border.

1:09:10.280 --> 1:09:14.400
<v Speaker 1>Fgcs are under one hundred dollars. Rifle parts are ten

1:09:14.479 --> 1:09:18.519
<v Speaker 1>times more expensive than parts. To all those who are

1:09:18.520 --> 1:09:21.280
<v Speaker 1>saying that these photos of sus we don't want to

1:09:21.320 --> 1:09:24.160
<v Speaker 1>blame your suspicion. If an if you remember the thread

1:09:24.160 --> 1:09:27.000
<v Speaker 1>I posted in September, you will remember that we are

1:09:27.040 --> 1:09:30.160
<v Speaker 1>mass producing FGC knights. The ones in the photos you've

1:09:30.160 --> 1:09:32.840
<v Speaker 1>seen were supplied by us. There are many groups like

1:09:32.840 --> 1:09:35.200
<v Speaker 1>this now we do the main production, just like I

1:09:35.240 --> 1:09:39.960
<v Speaker 1>explained in September. Then Daddy UMCD went on to thank

1:09:40.000 --> 1:09:42.960
<v Speaker 1>the other members of the subreddit, claiming their active help

1:09:43.000 --> 1:09:45.760
<v Speaker 1>was your only reason he and other revolutionaries have been

1:09:45.800 --> 1:09:49.280
<v Speaker 1>able to overcome certain technical issues. We wouldn't be here

1:09:49.280 --> 1:09:52.360
<v Speaker 1>without you, guys, especially with someone who shared with me.

1:09:52.439 --> 1:09:55.040
<v Speaker 1>The buffer spring and fire control groups bring the measurements,

1:09:55.320 --> 1:10:00.320
<v Speaker 1>he said. By late November, photos of FGC nineis in

1:10:00.320 --> 1:10:03.400
<v Speaker 1>the hands of fighters emerged and they shared sites. This

1:10:03.520 --> 1:10:08.559
<v Speaker 1>time they had longer barrels and homemade suppressors too. The

1:10:08.600 --> 1:10:11.639
<v Speaker 1>FDC nines were apparently used by urban units for close

1:10:11.720 --> 1:10:14.800
<v Speaker 1>up fighting and for the training of new fighters, since

1:10:14.800 --> 1:10:17.280
<v Speaker 1>they have essentially the same controls as an AR fifteen

1:10:17.360 --> 1:10:20.240
<v Speaker 1>or M sixteen rifle, both of which are common in

1:10:20.280 --> 1:10:24.080
<v Speaker 1>ME and r's rebel units. We have successfully streamlined a

1:10:24.120 --> 1:10:29.480
<v Speaker 1>variety of techniques to produce FGC nine one thousand plus efficiently.

1:10:31.120 --> 1:10:34.760
<v Speaker 1>Our primary forces arequipped with proper rifles. FDC nines are

1:10:34.760 --> 1:10:37.800
<v Speaker 1>for guerrilla warfare. We started using those in hit and

1:10:37.880 --> 1:10:41.439
<v Speaker 1>run and Special Task Force missions too. We don't share

1:10:41.520 --> 1:10:43.800
<v Speaker 1>much about the missions to the public yet, it will

1:10:43.800 --> 1:10:46.960
<v Speaker 1>definitely come, and when it does, are updated here. If

1:10:46.960 --> 1:10:52.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm still alive haha, wrote daddly Umcd on the foscat subreddit.

1:10:53.400 --> 1:10:57.560
<v Speaker 1>Even with production and full swing, ammunition remained a problem.

1:10:58.080 --> 1:11:02.160
<v Speaker 1>Although some regions can produce twenty two and nine millimeter

1:11:02.240 --> 1:11:06.080
<v Speaker 1>a home. According to daddy Umcd, five five six can

1:11:06.120 --> 1:11:08.919
<v Speaker 1>be purchased in large quantities at the border with Thailand,

1:11:09.000 --> 1:11:13.000
<v Speaker 1>but it isn't cheap. Instead, the PDF relied on raiding

1:11:13.040 --> 1:11:15.880
<v Speaker 1>police and military outposts in the same way the EEOS

1:11:15.920 --> 1:11:19.559
<v Speaker 1>had for years. Nine millimeter is the most common center

1:11:19.600 --> 1:11:23.200
<v Speaker 1>fire pistol around in the world. That's why Deterrent's Dispense

1:11:23.240 --> 1:11:27.240
<v Speaker 1>picked it for the FGC nine. Seized weapons often only

1:11:27.280 --> 1:11:30.519
<v Speaker 1>have a handful of rounds, but that's enough to kill

1:11:30.520 --> 1:11:33.680
<v Speaker 1>a soldier and take his weapon. Jay Stark might not

1:11:33.720 --> 1:11:36.559
<v Speaker 1>have been around to see his invention used to fight tyranny,

1:11:37.240 --> 1:11:39.519
<v Speaker 1>but Hanrahan thinks he would have been happy with the results.

1:11:40.000 --> 1:11:42.400
<v Speaker 11>He would have been made up. I think that's everything

1:11:42.479 --> 1:11:44.920
<v Speaker 11>he wanted to achieve. You know what I'm saying, That

1:11:45.040 --> 1:11:47.200
<v Speaker 11>really is everything you wanted to do.

1:11:47.600 --> 1:11:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Even the National Unity Government mir Mar's government in exile

1:11:51.520 --> 1:11:53.439
<v Speaker 1>has come around to at least some of Jay Stark's

1:11:53.439 --> 1:11:57.600
<v Speaker 1>ways of thinking. According to Daddy umcd our Minister of

1:11:57.640 --> 1:12:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Defense Minister already promised about the right to bare arms

1:12:00.920 --> 1:12:02.280
<v Speaker 1>in the first day of the revolution.

1:12:03.240 --> 1:12:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Promises made by revolutionary governments are not exactly solid commitments,

1:12:07.760 --> 1:12:09.640
<v Speaker 2>but it's not hard to see why a generation of

1:12:09.720 --> 1:12:13.000
<v Speaker 2>kids like Zaw, forged by an asymmetrical conflict with a

1:12:13.040 --> 1:12:16.599
<v Speaker 2>government that possessed a near absolute advantage in armaments, might

1:12:16.640 --> 1:12:20.000
<v Speaker 2>be committed to staying armed even if they win. At

1:12:20.000 --> 1:12:22.280
<v Speaker 2>the moment, the future of their struggle is very much

1:12:22.320 --> 1:12:25.160
<v Speaker 2>in doubt. Scrolling through Facebook photos of Zaw and his

1:12:25.240 --> 1:12:29.120
<v Speaker 2>comrades is a surreal experience. They look not just young

1:12:29.280 --> 1:12:33.000
<v Speaker 2>soldiers mostly look young, but they look like students kids

1:12:33.000 --> 1:12:37.240
<v Speaker 2>from some weirdly militarized university. Photos on Facebook show them

1:12:37.280 --> 1:12:40.919
<v Speaker 2>sprawled out together in the grass and camo fatigues bearing rifles,

1:12:41.120 --> 1:12:43.719
<v Speaker 2>but each glued to their phones as they cuddle in together.

1:12:44.680 --> 1:12:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Zaw and his girlfriend, who he described to us as

1:12:47.160 --> 1:12:50.839
<v Speaker 2>the girl I love, fought alongside each other until January

1:12:50.880 --> 1:12:51.840
<v Speaker 2>seventh of this year.

1:12:52.439 --> 1:12:57.320
<v Speaker 5>The battle that we started, she was coming within and

1:12:57.680 --> 1:13:00.920
<v Speaker 5>you know, as half a sense of weapons landed near

1:13:00.960 --> 1:13:05.200
<v Speaker 5>her and it hit her like so their bone broke,

1:13:05.760 --> 1:13:08.240
<v Speaker 5>so she had to go to the hospital.

1:13:08.640 --> 1:13:11.360
<v Speaker 2>Three D printed and homemade guns have helped, but Zae

1:13:11.360 --> 1:13:14.040
<v Speaker 2>and his friends are still fighting against a modern military

1:13:14.120 --> 1:13:18.120
<v Speaker 2>with planes, night vision goggles, and tanks. Despite this, more

1:13:18.120 --> 1:13:20.720
<v Speaker 2>than a year after the coup, they're still fighting and

1:13:20.760 --> 1:13:24.000
<v Speaker 2>more soldiers deffect to join them weekly. It's hard to

1:13:24.040 --> 1:13:27.160
<v Speaker 2>see what victory looks like. The cities will be another

1:13:27.200 --> 1:13:30.240
<v Speaker 2>battle altogether, But in the jungle camp where Zaw video

1:13:30.360 --> 1:13:32.960
<v Speaker 2>calls us from, it's impossible to see what giving up

1:13:33.080 --> 1:13:36.679
<v Speaker 2>might look like. Either he's still fighting, his girlfriend is healing,

1:13:36.880 --> 1:13:39.040
<v Speaker 2>and they're both committed to staying out in the jungle

1:13:39.320 --> 1:13:42.120
<v Speaker 2>until they are in their freedom back or die a trying.

1:13:56.360 --> 1:13:58.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm Robert Evans and this is part four of me

1:13:59.000 --> 1:14:01.000
<v Speaker 2>and mar printing the revolution.

1:14:02.000 --> 1:14:04.000
<v Speaker 5>And then once we got there we could in rest,

1:14:04.240 --> 1:14:07.640
<v Speaker 5>you know, rain, sun whatever. Women as well, we were

1:14:07.680 --> 1:14:12.400
<v Speaker 5>all like try when they came when we were leaving,

1:14:12.439 --> 1:14:16.200
<v Speaker 5>they were all like very fair skinned, beautiful, and then

1:14:16.360 --> 1:14:19.639
<v Speaker 5>we went in and then everyone got tanned. In the jungle,

1:14:20.160 --> 1:14:23.479
<v Speaker 5>we're training all the time. You know, people in training

1:14:23.520 --> 1:14:26.439
<v Speaker 5>camp were driven reallypart and the reason that we were

1:14:26.479 --> 1:14:29.559
<v Speaker 5>all doing this is because of Minile nine School. As

1:14:29.640 --> 1:14:33.600
<v Speaker 5>students and how much he has terrorized the public and

1:14:33.640 --> 1:14:36.439
<v Speaker 5>the people. And that's why we were we have this

1:14:36.640 --> 1:14:39.800
<v Speaker 5>morale and the ability to get through the training and

1:14:40.680 --> 1:14:42.480
<v Speaker 5>be able to wield weapons.

1:14:42.840 --> 1:14:46.560
<v Speaker 1>Zora and his friends went into the jungleist students, programmers

1:14:46.560 --> 1:14:51.400
<v Speaker 1>and kids. Now they're fighters. They would tech savvy young people,

1:14:51.439 --> 1:14:55.120
<v Speaker 1>he says, they grew up online and that generational divide

1:14:55.240 --> 1:14:57.639
<v Speaker 1>was the Internet brought here came much later in Miamah.

1:14:58.360 --> 1:15:02.720
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't until twenty eleven that people really gained accest internet.

1:15:02.960 --> 1:15:06.280
<v Speaker 1>With it the new ideas and identities that they brought.

1:15:06.920 --> 1:15:09.639
<v Speaker 1>So as generation are among the first to embrace global

1:15:09.640 --> 1:15:14.320
<v Speaker 1>connectivity and now after having it taken away, they're refusing

1:15:14.360 --> 1:15:14.880
<v Speaker 1>to give it up.

1:15:15.400 --> 1:15:19.800
<v Speaker 5>The start of the coup in February, the military, well

1:15:20.000 --> 1:15:22.800
<v Speaker 5>gen Z was organizing online, social media and all that,

1:15:24.200 --> 1:15:26.400
<v Speaker 5>and they were kind of I think this is from

1:15:26.439 --> 1:15:33.000
<v Speaker 5>my experience, but kind of organizing around like gen Z

1:15:33.320 --> 1:15:36.040
<v Speaker 5>is going to be different than the eightya generation because

1:15:36.080 --> 1:15:39.679
<v Speaker 5>we have the Internet and also we know more about

1:15:39.680 --> 1:15:41.720
<v Speaker 5>the world and can come communicate to the rest of

1:15:41.720 --> 1:15:44.680
<v Speaker 5>the world. I think one thing that was big was

1:15:44.720 --> 1:15:47.800
<v Speaker 5>that in two thousand and eight, it just took one

1:15:47.920 --> 1:15:50.680
<v Speaker 5>video leaking out of the country for there to be

1:15:50.920 --> 1:15:52.960
<v Speaker 5>big international repercussions.

1:15:53.160 --> 1:15:55.679
<v Speaker 1>It's worth noting that when people in Burma talk about

1:15:55.680 --> 1:15:59.480
<v Speaker 1>the Internet, they mean Facebook. Phones come with a Facebook

1:15:59.680 --> 1:16:04.519
<v Speaker 1>app installed and it's sometimes exempt from data charges. For

1:16:04.600 --> 1:16:08.080
<v Speaker 1>many people in Burma, using the internet means using Facebook.

1:16:09.120 --> 1:16:11.320
<v Speaker 1>Zora and his friends are different from their parents in

1:16:11.360 --> 1:16:14.240
<v Speaker 1>many ways, not at least in their perceptions of authority.

1:16:14.640 --> 1:16:17.120
<v Speaker 1>This has led to a situation where the PDF people's

1:16:17.120 --> 1:16:20.519
<v Speaker 1>defense force units are much less hierarchical than units of

1:16:20.560 --> 1:16:21.160
<v Speaker 1>the Tamador.

1:16:21.479 --> 1:16:26.679
<v Speaker 5>So when we make decisions in our group, there's no

1:16:26.880 --> 1:16:29.600
<v Speaker 5>master and student. There's no teacher and student. But you

1:16:29.640 --> 1:16:33.680
<v Speaker 5>know the way that it works, there are people who

1:16:33.720 --> 1:16:37.320
<v Speaker 5>are good, they're older, people who are more trained, and

1:16:37.360 --> 1:16:39.920
<v Speaker 5>then there are new recruits, new people who just came in.

1:16:40.400 --> 1:16:42.679
<v Speaker 5>So of course the people who are there for longer

1:16:42.680 --> 1:16:45.720
<v Speaker 5>and know more about the situation have more voice and

1:16:45.760 --> 1:16:50.120
<v Speaker 5>when we discuss so especially people who were there when

1:16:50.120 --> 1:16:53.559
<v Speaker 5>we founded this group. There were only really eight people

1:16:53.640 --> 1:16:56.599
<v Speaker 5>from when we group, so those eight people kind of

1:16:56.640 --> 1:17:02.040
<v Speaker 5>discussed on the bigger strategy. You know, we don't really

1:17:02.200 --> 1:17:06.800
<v Speaker 5>vote there, he says, he wants to do it. He

1:17:06.880 --> 1:17:10.479
<v Speaker 5>thinks it is good. We are there's the seven of

1:17:10.560 --> 1:17:13.400
<v Speaker 5>us we think is good, or we support him, or

1:17:13.439 --> 1:17:16.240
<v Speaker 5>someone says, well, we don't really like that idea, then

1:17:16.240 --> 1:17:16.960
<v Speaker 5>we don't do it.

1:17:17.240 --> 1:17:20.120
<v Speaker 1>They try to achieve more gender quality as well. Those

1:17:20.160 --> 1:17:22.280
<v Speaker 1>are explained that in his unit, the women are not

1:17:22.320 --> 1:17:23.799
<v Speaker 1>always the frontline fighters.

1:17:24.200 --> 1:17:28.360
<v Speaker 5>That's the place there's no discrimination. You know, women can

1:17:28.960 --> 1:17:33.240
<v Speaker 5>women and men were training whoever could come. But like

1:17:33.320 --> 1:17:38.400
<v Speaker 5>on the battlefield, people, we don't use women that much

1:17:38.400 --> 1:17:42.439
<v Speaker 5>on the battlefield. That's one thing that we do know

1:17:42.680 --> 1:17:45.920
<v Speaker 5>is that it's not it's not really discrimination. But if

1:17:46.040 --> 1:17:52.559
<v Speaker 5>women are with us together, we have a confusion about

1:17:52.560 --> 1:17:54.920
<v Speaker 5>whether we need to protect them or we're just fighting

1:17:54.960 --> 1:17:59.040
<v Speaker 5>with them or they're fighting in front of us. And

1:17:59.680 --> 1:18:04.880
<v Speaker 5>that there's one thing that is very different is that

1:18:05.439 --> 1:18:11.559
<v Speaker 5>in terms of mentality, we can't. We never take the

1:18:11.720 --> 1:18:16.559
<v Speaker 5>women out really far into very dangerous fights. So often

1:18:16.600 --> 1:18:20.439
<v Speaker 5>they're in the back as backup or to supplies or

1:18:20.520 --> 1:18:24.639
<v Speaker 5>things like that. But as you know, the military government,

1:18:25.040 --> 1:18:30.280
<v Speaker 5>the military terrorists are very very very unethical. They don't

1:18:30.320 --> 1:18:32.840
<v Speaker 5>follow the rules, so you know they're going to shoot

1:18:32.840 --> 1:18:36.000
<v Speaker 5>whoever they see. So even if they're hanging back and

1:18:36.000 --> 1:18:39.320
<v Speaker 5>they're sending medical supplies. They can still get hit.

1:18:39.840 --> 1:18:42.400
<v Speaker 1>For Zora in particular, there's a lot at stake. After

1:18:42.439 --> 1:18:44.800
<v Speaker 1>almost an hour and a half of talking, I asked

1:18:44.800 --> 1:18:48.000
<v Speaker 1>about his parents. I'd heard of retribution attacks against the

1:18:48.040 --> 1:18:50.479
<v Speaker 1>families of fighters and wondered if he was worried about that.

1:18:50.880 --> 1:18:54.839
<v Speaker 5>So mom and dad are both they support me fighting

1:18:54.920 --> 1:18:59.599
<v Speaker 5>them against the military. They're very happy. Is that really

1:18:59.600 --> 1:19:03.320
<v Speaker 5>wants to CDUM, but he can't run away because the

1:19:03.360 --> 1:19:10.800
<v Speaker 5>military has taken his mother and his sisters. He still

1:19:10.800 --> 1:19:15.160
<v Speaker 5>has five sisters. They're all still in that military command

1:19:15.320 --> 1:19:19.919
<v Speaker 5>their work, they're in the military school schools, so it's

1:19:20.040 --> 1:19:24.920
<v Speaker 5>very hard for them to run away, right hect So

1:19:24.960 --> 1:19:27.799
<v Speaker 5>he really wants to leave the military, but he can't.

1:19:27.920 --> 1:19:32.400
<v Speaker 5>So while so that the fact that I am there

1:19:32.439 --> 1:19:36.960
<v Speaker 5>trying to fight against the military, is very happy, but

1:19:37.160 --> 1:19:40.960
<v Speaker 5>he tells me to be careful about my own life.

1:19:41.080 --> 1:19:44.480
<v Speaker 5>They're supportive and they really want to come fight themselves,

1:19:44.520 --> 1:19:46.920
<v Speaker 5>but they can't because of my sisters and my mother.

1:19:47.880 --> 1:19:50.320
<v Speaker 5>So and seeing that I can do it, it's really

1:19:50.360 --> 1:19:56.600
<v Speaker 5>wonderful for them. So his father, his father, brother, and

1:19:56.760 --> 1:20:01.080
<v Speaker 5>other people three of them below him. They have all

1:20:01.479 --> 1:20:06.240
<v Speaker 5>usually just lived together with his grandfather and stuff in

1:20:06.280 --> 1:20:09.800
<v Speaker 5>the military from pounds or near the military. So he

1:20:09.880 --> 1:20:12.040
<v Speaker 5>really wants to call all the people that are still there,

1:20:12.120 --> 1:20:13.160
<v Speaker 5>but they can't leave.

1:20:13.640 --> 1:20:16.160
<v Speaker 1>This is what civil wood does. Traps us in a

1:20:16.200 --> 1:20:19.200
<v Speaker 1>situation where we can't make the right choice even when

1:20:19.240 --> 1:20:22.559
<v Speaker 1>we know what it is, and in many situations it's

1:20:22.600 --> 1:20:24.920
<v Speaker 1>pretty hard to discern right from wrong. In the midst

1:20:24.920 --> 1:20:27.920
<v Speaker 1>of so much violence, Zaul has been able to fight,

1:20:28.479 --> 1:20:31.200
<v Speaker 1>but his dad is stuck fighting against people like his

1:20:31.280 --> 1:20:35.280
<v Speaker 1>son in order to protect his daughters. Thousands of families

1:20:35.320 --> 1:20:38.360
<v Speaker 1>across the country divided in the same way by circumstance

1:20:38.560 --> 1:20:42.560
<v Speaker 1>or ideology. The military is something of a separate society.

1:20:42.720 --> 1:20:45.200
<v Speaker 1>It has its own schools and its own culture. But

1:20:45.280 --> 1:20:49.160
<v Speaker 1>ethnic armed organizations have not been close to urban populations either,

1:20:49.560 --> 1:20:52.400
<v Speaker 1>and so whole new identities have been forged by Generation

1:20:52.600 --> 1:20:56.320
<v Speaker 1>Z while their families often struggle to abandon all certainties.

1:20:57.040 --> 1:20:59.880
<v Speaker 2>As we record this, Zau is still fighting. His girl

1:21:00.040 --> 1:21:02.680
<v Speaker 2>friend is still healing. Every few weeks a video of

1:21:02.720 --> 1:21:05.000
<v Speaker 2>him and his friends pops up on Reddit or Facebook.

1:21:05.360 --> 1:21:07.519
<v Speaker 2>They have optics on their rifles now and are taking

1:21:07.600 --> 1:21:10.120
<v Speaker 2>long range shots at the top Mada who rely on

1:21:10.240 --> 1:21:13.880
<v Speaker 2>iron sights they shoot and reload like soldiers, and they

1:21:14.000 --> 1:21:17.679
<v Speaker 2>laugh like kids. The top Madaw still controls the cities,

1:21:17.880 --> 1:21:19.800
<v Speaker 2>but to move between them they have to travel in

1:21:19.880 --> 1:21:24.000
<v Speaker 2>convoys at breakneck speeds, using ambushes, mines and knowledge of

1:21:24.040 --> 1:21:27.120
<v Speaker 2>the terrain. EAOs and the PDF are able to deny

1:21:27.200 --> 1:21:31.320
<v Speaker 2>the military access to large portions of the countryside. Without

1:21:31.320 --> 1:21:33.840
<v Speaker 2>a serious change in the conflict, it might stay like

1:21:33.920 --> 1:21:37.439
<v Speaker 2>this for years. A report published this month detailed the

1:21:37.439 --> 1:21:40.320
<v Speaker 2>attacks in the Karini state by the tot Madaw on churches,

1:21:40.520 --> 1:21:44.120
<v Speaker 2>residential homes, camps for displaced people, which killed sixty one

1:21:44.160 --> 1:21:47.120
<v Speaker 2>in the months since Saw left the city on Christmas Eve.

1:21:47.439 --> 1:21:51.440
<v Speaker 2>In Upruso's township, they killed at least forty civilians. Autopsies

1:21:51.479 --> 1:21:55.200
<v Speaker 2>show some were gagged and burned alive. In recent months,

1:21:55.240 --> 1:21:57.559
<v Speaker 2>the tot Mada has increased its use of air strikes

1:21:57.600 --> 1:22:01.200
<v Speaker 2>against targets that it deems legitimate. Ming An Hlang, the

1:22:01.280 --> 1:22:04.599
<v Speaker 2>junta's leader, flew to Russia twice. In twenty twenty one.

1:22:04.880 --> 1:22:08.400
<v Speaker 2>He was proclaimed an honorary professor of the Military University

1:22:08.439 --> 1:22:12.040
<v Speaker 2>of the Russian Armed Forces. Quote. We are determined to

1:22:12.040 --> 1:22:14.760
<v Speaker 2>continue our efforts to strengthen bilateral ties based on the

1:22:14.840 --> 1:22:18.240
<v Speaker 2>mutual understanding, respect and trust that have been established between

1:22:18.240 --> 1:22:22.040
<v Speaker 2>our two countries, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said at

1:22:22.040 --> 1:22:24.360
<v Speaker 2>a meeting with the coup leader on June twenty second.

1:22:24.720 --> 1:22:26.960
<v Speaker 2>We pay special attention to this meeting as we see

1:22:26.960 --> 1:22:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Mianmar as a time tested strategic partner and a reliable

1:22:30.000 --> 1:22:32.760
<v Speaker 2>ally in Southeast Asia and the Asia Pacific region. He

1:22:32.840 --> 1:22:36.639
<v Speaker 2>went on. Min Onnhlang was equally lavish with his praise,

1:22:36.960 --> 1:22:40.560
<v Speaker 2>saying that he saw Russia as a friend forever. Mianmar

1:22:40.640 --> 1:22:44.960
<v Speaker 2>relies heavily on Russian hind Mi I thirty five helicopter gunships,

1:22:45.120 --> 1:22:48.840
<v Speaker 2>transport helicopters Mid twenty nine and SU thirty fighter jets

1:22:48.880 --> 1:22:52.000
<v Speaker 2>and Yak one thirty ground attack aircraft to carry out

1:22:52.040 --> 1:22:55.559
<v Speaker 2>bombing raids and straight civilians. All of these weapons systems

1:22:55.600 --> 1:22:58.560
<v Speaker 2>have been seen more recently in the fighting in Ukraine.

1:22:59.240 --> 1:23:02.800
<v Speaker 2>One prominent Ermese Irish family, the kiah Tongs, has helped

1:23:02.840 --> 1:23:06.280
<v Speaker 2>the junta avoid an international arms embargo using their global

1:23:06.280 --> 1:23:09.400
<v Speaker 2>connections and a network of shady shadow companies. They have

1:23:09.439 --> 1:23:12.400
<v Speaker 2>purchased helicopters under the pretense of using them for tourism

1:23:12.720 --> 1:23:15.240
<v Speaker 2>and the oil and gas industry and handed them over

1:23:15.280 --> 1:23:18.479
<v Speaker 2>to the top MADA. They've also helped shuttle coastal radar

1:23:18.560 --> 1:23:21.240
<v Speaker 2>to Myanmar, which the Top Medal used to track Rohinga

1:23:21.280 --> 1:23:25.599
<v Speaker 2>refugees and provide cover for several aircraft purchases. To fund

1:23:25.640 --> 1:23:28.679
<v Speaker 2>these armed purchases, the top Mada has found willing markets

1:23:28.680 --> 1:23:32.400
<v Speaker 2>for luxury goods abroad. According to Justice for Meanmar, since

1:23:32.400 --> 1:23:35.400
<v Speaker 2>the coup in February twenty twenty one, the United States

1:23:35.439 --> 1:23:38.479
<v Speaker 2>has imported fifteen hundred and sixty five metric tons of

1:23:38.520 --> 1:23:42.680
<v Speaker 2>teak from Myanmar, using intermediaries to avoid sanctions. In the

1:23:42.680 --> 1:23:45.840
<v Speaker 2>twenty seventeen twenty eighteen financial year, the last year for

1:23:45.840 --> 1:23:48.960
<v Speaker 2>which data is available, the government received one hundred million

1:23:49.040 --> 1:23:52.000
<v Speaker 2>US dollars in revenue from taxes and royalties applied to

1:23:52.040 --> 1:23:54.920
<v Speaker 2>the timber trade. In twenty twenty one, there were more

1:23:54.960 --> 1:23:58.439
<v Speaker 2>shipments than twenty eighteen, offering the top Madal the chance

1:23:58.479 --> 1:24:01.439
<v Speaker 2>to make enough money to continue purchasing weapons to use

1:24:01.479 --> 1:24:05.840
<v Speaker 2>against their population. The conflict in the NMAR remains complicated.

1:24:06.200 --> 1:24:08.799
<v Speaker 2>It's easy to reduce the alphabet super of revel groups,

1:24:08.800 --> 1:24:11.439
<v Speaker 2>the EOS and the PDF, but these groups and their

1:24:11.439 --> 1:24:14.840
<v Speaker 2>motivations are diverse. Pierre explained to us that even within

1:24:14.840 --> 1:24:16.720
<v Speaker 2>the Korean there are deep divisions.

1:24:16.840 --> 1:24:20.759
<v Speaker 4>Well, first, you have to know that historically the Karen

1:24:21.160 --> 1:24:25.800
<v Speaker 4>Rebellion that started in nineteen forty eight, nineteen forty nine,

1:24:26.640 --> 1:24:31.160
<v Speaker 4>so quite a long time ago, was led by Christian

1:24:31.439 --> 1:24:37.240
<v Speaker 4>by the Christian minority of the Kharan people, because obviously

1:24:37.320 --> 1:24:42.000
<v Speaker 4>that was the most Western educated people.

1:24:43.840 --> 1:24:44.599
<v Speaker 8>At the time.

1:24:45.600 --> 1:24:49.760
<v Speaker 4>And so this eliot kind of reproduced itself in the

1:24:50.080 --> 1:24:55.880
<v Speaker 4>new without being the CANU is. The Karen National Union

1:24:57.880 --> 1:25:03.240
<v Speaker 4>is a democratic movement, but you know, elits tend to

1:25:03.320 --> 1:25:08.679
<v Speaker 4>reproduce themselves. And so most of the leadership, let's say,

1:25:08.720 --> 1:25:13.919
<v Speaker 4>of the Karen National Union and the Karen National Liberation Army.

1:25:15.560 --> 1:25:18.880
<v Speaker 8>Was Christian Like.

1:25:20.760 --> 1:25:29.760
<v Speaker 4>And so the Burmese Junta, the Burmese military government, decided

1:25:30.000 --> 1:25:35.760
<v Speaker 4>to use this to create a wedge between between the

1:25:35.880 --> 1:25:41.719
<v Speaker 4>Karen Christians and the Karran Buddhists UH and sent monks

1:25:41.760 --> 1:25:48.000
<v Speaker 4>to say, agitate and try to cause this split on

1:25:48.320 --> 1:25:53.200
<v Speaker 4>religious grounds no UH, And they succeeded in parts and

1:25:53.560 --> 1:25:59.439
<v Speaker 4>succeeded to separate a part of Karent Buddhists that created

1:25:59.520 --> 1:26:07.639
<v Speaker 4>the the Democratic Karen Buddhist Army d B, which then

1:26:08.240 --> 1:26:10.240
<v Speaker 4>I like themselves of course.

1:26:10.040 --> 1:26:14.840
<v Speaker 8>To the to the junta and to.

1:26:15.400 --> 1:26:19.840
<v Speaker 4>Attack the to attack the Kinnel and the Manor Clow,

1:26:19.920 --> 1:26:22.960
<v Speaker 4>which of course they knew all the all the roads

1:26:22.960 --> 1:26:27.240
<v Speaker 4>there and the defenses and where was the defense is situated,

1:26:27.280 --> 1:26:31.280
<v Speaker 4>et cetera, and succeeded in destroying the capital of the

1:26:32.320 --> 1:26:33.400
<v Speaker 4>Karen National.

1:26:33.120 --> 1:26:35.400
<v Speaker 8>Union in Manorplot in ninety five.

1:26:36.400 --> 1:26:40.320
<v Speaker 4>So that was the situation pretty much when I arrived,

1:26:41.280 --> 1:26:48.200
<v Speaker 4>it was pretty hard like there was not so much

1:26:48.360 --> 1:26:53.800
<v Speaker 4>territory anymore held by the Karen and more more importantly,

1:26:53.920 --> 1:26:57.360
<v Speaker 4>they lost a lot of income because a lot of

1:26:57.400 --> 1:27:01.080
<v Speaker 4>their income come from a tax at the border, a

1:27:01.200 --> 1:27:02.599
<v Speaker 4>Zecan contour, you know.

1:27:04.200 --> 1:27:06.479
<v Speaker 8>So yeah, that was the situation.

1:27:07.080 --> 1:27:10.839
<v Speaker 2>Not every EAO has embraced the National Unity Government directly,

1:27:11.200 --> 1:27:14.160
<v Speaker 2>after all, many of its members were enthusiastically running cover

1:27:14.240 --> 1:27:17.160
<v Speaker 2>for the Rohinga genocide a few years ago. Many of

1:27:17.200 --> 1:27:20.320
<v Speaker 2>the EAOs remain technically under a ceasefire with the top

1:27:20.360 --> 1:27:22.679
<v Speaker 2>Meda and the top MADA knows that if it pushes

1:27:22.760 --> 1:27:26.200
<v Speaker 2>too far into EO territory, it risks provoking a full

1:27:26.240 --> 1:27:30.080
<v Speaker 2>blown response. The EAOs, meanwhile, have been aiding and training

1:27:30.120 --> 1:27:33.439
<v Speaker 2>the PDF and still maintaining enough deniability that the top

1:27:33.479 --> 1:27:37.599
<v Speaker 2>Meda has not been forced into a confrontation EAO PDF.

1:27:37.640 --> 1:27:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Alliances look different in different regions, and often realities on

1:27:41.240 --> 1:27:44.240
<v Speaker 2>the ground bear little relationship to the back door diplomacy

1:27:44.240 --> 1:27:47.680
<v Speaker 2>and official stances embraced by leadership and public The.

1:27:47.640 --> 1:27:50.799
<v Speaker 1>Wall continues to have a huge toll on civilians. According

1:27:50.800 --> 1:27:53.759
<v Speaker 1>to United Nations, in total, some four hundred and forty

1:27:53.800 --> 1:27:56.960
<v Speaker 1>thousand people have been newly displaced since the coup happened

1:27:57.000 --> 1:28:00.400
<v Speaker 1>in February twenty twenty one, adding to an existing three

1:28:00.439 --> 1:28:03.360
<v Speaker 1>hundred and seventy thousand who had fled their homes from

1:28:03.400 --> 1:28:06.280
<v Speaker 1>earlier waves of violence and over a million people who

1:28:06.280 --> 1:28:10.120
<v Speaker 1>had fled the Rahingia genocide. More than half the population

1:28:10.240 --> 1:28:15.920
<v Speaker 1>of Kareni State has fled. Humanitarian access is hard. Much

1:28:15.960 --> 1:28:19.840
<v Speaker 1>of the relief effort for displaced people occurs within local communities.

1:28:21.360 --> 1:28:24.240
<v Speaker 1>Thousands of refugees a camp along the border with Thailand,

1:28:24.640 --> 1:28:29.400
<v Speaker 1>which is defined by rivers. Initially, many people fled into Thailand,

1:28:29.520 --> 1:28:32.400
<v Speaker 1>but terrible conditions in refugee camps led some of them

1:28:32.400 --> 1:28:36.000
<v Speaker 1>to return to Me and Ma. Now they weighed across

1:28:36.080 --> 1:28:38.960
<v Speaker 1>the river for international aid donations of food and water,

1:28:39.479 --> 1:28:41.719
<v Speaker 1>but they can't bring themselves to stay in the crowded

1:28:41.720 --> 1:28:44.720
<v Speaker 1>camps overnight, so they waded back to sleep on the

1:28:44.720 --> 1:28:48.919
<v Speaker 1>Burmese side of the bank. The UNHCR, the High Commission

1:28:48.960 --> 1:28:51.759
<v Speaker 1>on Refugees, it's been unable to access camps in Thailand

1:28:52.160 --> 1:28:55.120
<v Speaker 1>or Me and Mah to check on the conditions, but

1:28:55.160 --> 1:28:57.880
<v Speaker 1>it has urged a Thai government which has been credibly

1:28:57.880 --> 1:29:00.840
<v Speaker 1>accused of forcing people back across the border, to move

1:29:00.840 --> 1:29:03.840
<v Speaker 1>people to better conditions further into Thailand instead of keeping

1:29:03.880 --> 1:29:06.320
<v Speaker 1>them in camps near the border. And here we find

1:29:06.320 --> 1:29:09.360
<v Speaker 1>the unfortunate, unavoidable reality of the civil war in me

1:29:09.439 --> 1:29:12.719
<v Speaker 1>and Mah. For all the uniqueness of aspects of the conflict,

1:29:12.840 --> 1:29:16.240
<v Speaker 1>the innovative ways gen Z militias have interfaced with older

1:29:16.280 --> 1:29:20.040
<v Speaker 1>ethnic military forces, the three D printed arms, etc. At

1:29:20.040 --> 1:29:22.600
<v Speaker 1>the end of the day, this is another brutal, horrific

1:29:22.680 --> 1:29:24.760
<v Speaker 1>conflict between large numbers of people who want to be

1:29:24.880 --> 1:29:27.600
<v Speaker 1>free and a small number of people who want to

1:29:27.600 --> 1:29:28.680
<v Speaker 1>control them.

1:29:29.040 --> 1:29:29.920
<v Speaker 5>From Miah Mah.

1:29:29.760 --> 1:29:34.960
<v Speaker 1>To Armenia, Ukraine, to Syria, Ethiopia to Iraq and beyond.

1:29:35.600 --> 1:29:38.280
<v Speaker 1>The novelties of twenty first century conflict don't change the

1:29:38.320 --> 1:29:40.679
<v Speaker 1>fact that at the end of the day. Each war

1:29:40.760 --> 1:29:42.840
<v Speaker 1>brings with it what might be the truest symbol of

1:29:42.880 --> 1:29:46.759
<v Speaker 1>our current age, parents saying goodbye to their kids, camps

1:29:46.760 --> 1:29:50.320
<v Speaker 1>filled with desperate people fleeing violence, and governments all over

1:29:50.360 --> 1:29:53.040
<v Speaker 1>the world willing to send nothing more than kind words

1:29:53.200 --> 1:29:58.200
<v Speaker 1>and stern warnings. This is a PostScript to episode four.

1:29:59.600 --> 1:30:02.479
<v Speaker 1>It's not but one that we'd been intending to record,

1:30:02.560 --> 1:30:05.439
<v Speaker 1>because it's not news that we'd ever hoped to have.

1:30:05.320 --> 1:30:06.040
<v Speaker 8>To share, But.

1:30:07.479 --> 1:30:08.000
<v Speaker 5>Here we are.

1:30:09.439 --> 1:30:12.320
<v Speaker 1>Unfortunately, we found out that about ten days after we

1:30:12.360 --> 1:30:15.439
<v Speaker 1>last spoke, and a couple of weeks before we released

1:30:15.439 --> 1:30:21.080
<v Speaker 1>our podcast, Zor died. And he died in battle fighting

1:30:21.120 --> 1:30:29.320
<v Speaker 1>with the Tutmador. He's really was, I suppose, an amazingly

1:30:29.360 --> 1:30:35.400
<v Speaker 1>brave and courageous young man, and I think that his

1:30:35.520 --> 1:30:39.960
<v Speaker 1>loss is one that reflects the realities of of what

1:30:40.160 --> 1:30:45.600
<v Speaker 1>war is, which is not great and glorious and exciting.

1:30:45.840 --> 1:30:52.679
<v Speaker 1>It's young men and sometimes young women, young non binary folks,

1:30:52.720 --> 1:30:58.000
<v Speaker 1>I imagine too, dying when they had no quarrel with anyone,

1:30:58.160 --> 1:31:02.160
<v Speaker 1>when they just wanted to live their lives. Two years ago,

1:31:02.520 --> 1:31:05.559
<v Speaker 1>a year and a half ago, even he was just

1:31:05.640 --> 1:31:09.120
<v Speaker 1>loving the people, he loved, having fun, being a kid

1:31:10.080 --> 1:31:13.080
<v Speaker 1>riding his motorcycle, speaking to his girlfriend on his phone,

1:31:14.640 --> 1:31:18.519
<v Speaker 1>living a happy life. And then someone who had power

1:31:18.520 --> 1:31:20.320
<v Speaker 1>decided that they wanted to have more power, and they

1:31:20.320 --> 1:31:24.680
<v Speaker 1>decided that it didn't matter how many kids had to

1:31:24.760 --> 1:31:28.519
<v Speaker 1>die so they could have what they want. And he

1:31:28.600 --> 1:31:31.000
<v Speaker 1>decided to say no to that, And that's brave, and

1:31:31.040 --> 1:31:34.200
<v Speaker 1>I think all of us would agree that what he

1:31:34.240 --> 1:31:39.679
<v Speaker 1>did was right and morally courageous, and that we would

1:31:39.720 --> 1:31:41.519
<v Speaker 1>hope to be brave enough to do the same if

1:31:41.520 --> 1:31:45.360
<v Speaker 1>the same thing happened to us. This once hit me

1:31:46.040 --> 1:31:46.599
<v Speaker 1>quite hard.

1:31:46.680 --> 1:31:47.120
<v Speaker 8>Honestly.

1:31:48.000 --> 1:31:49.640
<v Speaker 1>I know this is my job, and it happens that

1:31:49.640 --> 1:31:52.880
<v Speaker 1>it's happened before and it will happen again. But he

1:31:53.000 --> 1:31:56.519
<v Speaker 1>was such a happy, polite, kind young man. He never

1:31:56.600 --> 1:32:00.640
<v Speaker 1>didn't pick up the phone, He never got tired of

1:32:00.680 --> 1:32:07.479
<v Speaker 1>explaining stuff that we didn't understand, and he always answered

1:32:07.479 --> 1:32:10.320
<v Speaker 1>our questions. It was nothing that was off the table.

1:32:10.360 --> 1:32:12.880
<v Speaker 1>There was nothing that he wouldn't talk about with us.

1:32:12.920 --> 1:32:18.639
<v Speaker 1>He was completely open, And yeah, we will miss him greatly.

1:32:19.760 --> 1:32:28.600
<v Speaker 1>He died fighting the thing that we all have to fight, right, fascism, dictatorship, totalitarianism, militarization,

1:32:29.960 --> 1:32:35.960
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, will grieve his loss. Both Robert and I

1:32:36.080 --> 1:32:38.720
<v Speaker 1>we've just spoken on the phone, and we found out

1:32:38.800 --> 1:32:41.760
<v Speaker 1>because the contact of mine on the ground sent me

1:32:41.800 --> 1:32:44.320
<v Speaker 1>a Reddit message with a link to a Facebook post

1:32:44.640 --> 1:32:47.000
<v Speaker 1>and it's very clearly zorin no doubt about that it

1:32:47.080 --> 1:32:54.840
<v Speaker 1>names him, and unfortunately it also shows him dead. So

1:32:54.960 --> 1:32:57.400
<v Speaker 1>we're not in any doubt that it was him who died,

1:32:59.040 --> 1:33:02.160
<v Speaker 1>and we're not in any doubt we will gravely miss

1:33:02.240 --> 1:33:06.200
<v Speaker 1>him either. We both hoped to go over and record

1:33:06.240 --> 1:33:09.240
<v Speaker 1>with him, to speak with him, to meet him. I'd

1:33:09.280 --> 1:33:13.599
<v Speaker 1>spoken to him several times on video, sometimes just to chat,

1:33:13.640 --> 1:33:16.840
<v Speaker 1>not even to record anything, just just to chat, just

1:33:16.840 --> 1:33:20.720
<v Speaker 1>to catch up and look at what each of us

1:33:20.800 --> 1:33:26.160
<v Speaker 1>was doing that day. So it's a hard loss for

1:33:26.280 --> 1:33:29.439
<v Speaker 1>me and for Robert till as I said, we'd just spoken.

1:33:31.760 --> 1:33:35.600
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that's the news that we hadn't hoped to

1:33:35.720 --> 1:33:37.920
<v Speaker 1>end on. Obviously, though, this is the reality of war,

1:33:38.000 --> 1:33:40.760
<v Speaker 1>and as the world is looking at the conflict in

1:33:40.880 --> 1:33:45.040
<v Speaker 1>Ukraine now, I'd urge you to look at the conflict

1:33:45.080 --> 1:33:51.240
<v Speaker 1>in Myanmar to another Russian bomb killed, another nice kid

1:33:52.000 --> 1:33:54.679
<v Speaker 1>who never had any quarrel with anyone, who just wanted

1:33:54.680 --> 1:33:57.720
<v Speaker 1>to live his life and didn't want to live the

1:33:57.760 --> 1:33:59.479
<v Speaker 1>rest of his life with a boot on his neck,

1:34:00.400 --> 1:34:03.439
<v Speaker 1>so he decided to stand up against it. As you

1:34:03.479 --> 1:34:07.120
<v Speaker 1>can probably hear in my voice, I'm quite upset by

1:34:07.520 --> 1:34:13.200
<v Speaker 1>his loss and will be probably for a few days.

1:34:14.040 --> 1:34:16.240
<v Speaker 1>So I'm sorry to have to end this podcast on

1:34:16.280 --> 1:34:21.000
<v Speaker 1>such a sad note. I'm sorry for his family, who

1:34:21.000 --> 1:34:24.720
<v Speaker 1>are now caught between the loss of their son and

1:34:24.800 --> 1:34:29.160
<v Speaker 1>trying to protect their daughters. I'm sorry for his girlfriend,

1:34:30.479 --> 1:34:32.680
<v Speaker 1>who's dealing with shrapnel in her own leg and now

1:34:32.760 --> 1:34:36.000
<v Speaker 1>the loss of the person she loved. And I'm sorry

1:34:36.000 --> 1:34:38.439
<v Speaker 1>for his comrades. And they've said they'll go on fighting,

1:34:38.479 --> 1:34:40.960
<v Speaker 1>and I hope they do, and I don't think there's

1:34:40.960 --> 1:34:43.679
<v Speaker 1>any point really pretending to be objective at this stage

1:34:43.720 --> 1:34:47.880
<v Speaker 1>in the games, and I hope they win, but I

1:34:47.920 --> 1:34:49.280
<v Speaker 1>mostly just hope that.

1:34:50.840 --> 1:34:53.360
<v Speaker 5>One day, young.

1:34:53.080 --> 1:34:57.639
<v Speaker 1>Men and women and everyone else just gets to live

1:34:57.680 --> 1:35:02.160
<v Speaker 1>their lives without having to kill and die, because ultimately,

1:35:03.520 --> 1:35:05.840
<v Speaker 1>no one should have to and no parents should have

1:35:05.840 --> 1:35:10.240
<v Speaker 1>to bury their kids. So yeah, as much as we're

1:35:10.240 --> 1:35:12.639
<v Speaker 1>all focusing on Ukraine and what's happening there is terrible,

1:35:12.640 --> 1:35:16.360
<v Speaker 1>Please don't forget Zor's comrades, Please don't forget his legacy

1:35:17.760 --> 1:35:21.839
<v Speaker 1>and please don't forget him. We won't and we obviously

1:35:21.840 --> 1:35:24.680
<v Speaker 1>want to dedicate this podcast to him and what he

1:35:24.720 --> 1:35:34.680
<v Speaker 1>stood for. So yeah, thanks. It Could Happen Here as

1:35:34.680 --> 1:35:36.320
<v Speaker 1>a production of cool Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 6>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

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<v Speaker 6>cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the

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<v Speaker 6>iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated

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<v Speaker 2>monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources.

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<v Speaker 5>Thanks for listening.