1
00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,960
Speaker 1: I don't know how the twins, my twelve year old

2
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,479
Speaker 1: twins and know about this, but they know who slender

3
00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,160
Speaker 1: Man is. They don't know a lot about him, but

4
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,480
Speaker 1: they know he's a tall, ghoulish, eerie looking thin, very

5
00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:23,200
Speaker 1: pale man dressed in a suit, and he gets slaves

6
00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:29,360
Speaker 1: or minions to follow him. How do they know this? Well,

7
00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 1: this is what I know about slender Man. The sci

8
00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:38,560
Speaker 1: fi character was the inspiration for the brutal stabbing assault

9
00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:43,000
Speaker 1: on a little girl at the hands I've her two

10
00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:51,559
Speaker 1: so called besties, her best friends. The scary part slender

11
00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:56,040
Speaker 1: Man lives. This is crime Stories. I'm Nancy Grace. Thank

12
00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:07,280
Speaker 1: you for being with us. Climb Stories with Nancy Grace.

13
00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 1: What's the address your emergency CONI line and transmember? A

14
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,720
Speaker 1: caller on Big Bend at the dead End just south

15
00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:24,000
Speaker 1: of RIVERA. Okay, you upon a twelve year old email

16
00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:29,520
Speaker 1: two peers of being stabbed. She appears to be with stapped, stabbed. Okay,

17
00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,800
Speaker 1: sorry still there? Yes, hi, sir, so is are you

18
00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,440
Speaker 1: with this twelve year old female? Yeah? She says she's

19
00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,360
Speaker 1: having trouble breathing. She said she was stabbed multiple times.

20
00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,520
Speaker 1: They have multiple times? Yeah, Okay, Sir, are you with

21
00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,120
Speaker 1: her right now? Yes? Is she awake? She's awake. Is

22
00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 1: she breathing? Yeah, she's breathing. She said she can take

23
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,040
Speaker 1: shallow breath. She's alert. Okay, stay with her. We're sending

24
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,760
Speaker 1: the police department. Don't hang up. Okay, hold on, JA minute,

25
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,240
Speaker 1: don't hang up. Okay, okay, well nice minutes that we're

26
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,920
Speaker 1: setting officers. Is there any assailant around? I didn't even look.

27
00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,840
Speaker 1: I don't see anybody. Okay, stay stay right with her, Sir.

28
00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,239
Speaker 1: Is she on the ground or she standing up? No,

29
00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,200
Speaker 1: she's laying on the grass. Is there any bleeding going on?

30
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,840
Speaker 1: Her clothing has got blood on it. Where are the wounds?

31
00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,839
Speaker 1: Did you see where the wounds are? No? I don't

32
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,640
Speaker 1: know if I should be rolling her over and checking

33
00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,680
Speaker 1: or not. Do you know where? Okay, just stay with

34
00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:28,560
Speaker 1: her and just let me know if she's conscious or

35
00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,280
Speaker 1: alert or stop spreed anthing. Hold on, I'm going to

36
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,480
Speaker 1: talk to the ambulance. Police are also in route. Okay.

37
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,000
Speaker 1: So you see any active bleeding or blood spurting out

38
00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,280
Speaker 1: or anything like that. No, unless it's underneath or I

39
00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,000
Speaker 1: just see dried blood. Okay, just dried blood. Okay, you

40
00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 1: are hearing a nine one one call. That becomes even

41
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,680
Speaker 1: more chilling when you realize the victim is a twelve

42
00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,640
Speaker 1: year old little girl. I mean, I see grace. This

43
00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:57,359
Speaker 1: is crib stories. In the Last Days, the victim speaks out.

44
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,840
Speaker 1: Let's Stour. Friends at t MJ four are told police

45
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,760
Speaker 1: planning the attack made her scared, but she wanted to

46
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:09,920
Speaker 1: prove Slenderman skeptics wrong. I would I would never my

47
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 1: family again. I was how Geyser says. The victim Peyton

48
00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,040
Speaker 1: had been her best friend for years. She says she

49
00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,240
Speaker 1: didn't choose Peyton, but went along with it. Leave down

50
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:34,160
Speaker 1: her good time. Ima, I am wanting to hurt people before,

51
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:39,360
Speaker 1: but they're not nice to me, a little girl saying before,

52
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:44,880
Speaker 1: I wanted to hurt people and they deserved it. Two girls,

53
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:50,440
Speaker 1: Morgan Geyser and Anissa were Could they possibly have lured

54
00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 1: their twelve year old little best friend out into the

55
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,160
Speaker 1: woods and then stabbed her, leaving her for dad. That's

56
00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 1: what police are reporting, and in the Last Days, the

57
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:07,560
Speaker 1: little girl who miraculously survives, Peyton Laudner speaks out, joining

58
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,080
Speaker 1: me an all star panel. Jason Ocean's renowned defense attorney

59
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,680
Speaker 1: in the New York, New Jersey area. Cloyd Steiger, thirty

60
00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,000
Speaker 1: six years of the Seattle Police Department, twenty two years

61
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,279
Speaker 1: homicide detective, author of Homicide The View from Inside the

62
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,719
Speaker 1: Yellow Tape. You can find him at Cloyd Steiger dot com.

63
00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,640
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of

64
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:35,680
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet, Renown forensic psychiatrist, doctor Daniel Bober

65
00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,039
Speaker 1: joining us out of the Florida jurisdiction right now to

66
00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page, Levi, take

67
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,640
Speaker 1: me back to the night this little girl was stabbed

68
00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,000
Speaker 1: multiple times, left for dead, bleeding out, left to quote,

69
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,520
Speaker 1: bleed out in the woods. You'd think it was a

70
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,000
Speaker 1: sex offender, a registered sex offender, a pedophile, a maniac.

71
00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,000
Speaker 1: But it turns it's two little girls. Yes. Nancy May

72
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,880
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, Morgan Geyser is celebrating her birthday. She had

73
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,320
Speaker 1: turned twelve, and she invited two of her classmates, her

74
00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,080
Speaker 1: friend Peyton Lutner and Anissa Weir, who are also twelve,

75
00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,400
Speaker 1: over to her home. They went skating, They ate frozen yogurt.

76
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,760
Speaker 1: They had a slumber party. Okay, stop, stop, stop, stop

77
00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:30,320
Speaker 1: right there, Jason Oceans. You know what it is. It's

78
00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:35,000
Speaker 1: time for the twins birthday parties. Now they want separate parties,

79
00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,440
Speaker 1: separate parties, things like Levi Pace just said Jason, skating,

80
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,880
Speaker 1: birthday cakes, manicures, pedicures for the little girls, laser tag

81
00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,440
Speaker 1: for the little boys. But this is just like every

82
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,839
Speaker 1: other kid's birthday party. Jason Oceans. You've got two children,

83
00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,880
Speaker 1: You've lived through it, no doubt about it. And happy

84
00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,280
Speaker 1: birthday to the twins, and the yes challenge has become great.

85
00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,440
Speaker 1: Don't try to butter me up, Jason Oceans. It's attorney.

86
00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,240
Speaker 1: Nothing's going to change. Battle Nancy always the prosecutors, So

87
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,800
Speaker 1: I mean it makes it worse to me. Joseph Scott Morgan,

88
00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,400
Speaker 1: You've lived through plenty of trials, as have you. Cloyd Steiger.

89
00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,719
Speaker 1: When it's a wolf in sheep's clothes, Joe Scott that

90
00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,039
Speaker 1: this was supposed to be an innocent, fun birthday party

91
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,479
Speaker 1: for a little twelve year old girls. I mean, really, yeah,

92
00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,719
Speaker 1: you would think that they'd be completely and totally safe.

93
00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, and your defenses are down. Wouldn't you think

94
00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,080
Speaker 1: twelve years old, who's going to expect that this kind

95
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,520
Speaker 1: of behavior is going to rise up among what would

96
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,719
Speaker 1: seemly be a few innocent little children. I mean Cloyd

97
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,159
Speaker 1: Steiger thirty six years, Seattle PD, twenty two years, homicide detective.

98
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen plenty of twelve year old killers.

99
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:47,919
Speaker 1: I'm not proud of it, but I had to do

100
00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,839
Speaker 1: a stint in juvenile But usually they're twelve year old

101
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,800
Speaker 1: going on twenty five dopers, you know, getting their parents drugs,

102
00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:01,560
Speaker 1: mental issues that nobody knew about those types of killings

103
00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:06,360
Speaker 1: by twelve year olds. But two little suburban twelve year

104
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,720
Speaker 1: old girls having a birthday party. Really, have you ever

105
00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,200
Speaker 1: seen anything like that, Chloy, because I have not. I've

106
00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:13,480
Speaker 1: never seen a thing of the twelve year old. I've

107
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,000
Speaker 1: seen something very similar with some like sixteen year old

108
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,760
Speaker 1: boys were like, you know, not criminal boys that lured

109
00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,440
Speaker 1: one of their friends into the woods and killed them

110
00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,400
Speaker 1: because they're an argument over a girl. But this is

111
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,480
Speaker 1: really an anomaly. And like I said, I've arrested I

112
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,600
Speaker 1: think the youngest I've arrested is thirteen, but that was

113
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,679
Speaker 1: a gang bang thing, you know, and a long history

114
00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,360
Speaker 1: of violence before that, So it's really unusual. A lot

115
00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,200
Speaker 1: different from a little girl sleepover in suburbia. To doctor

116
00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,960
Speaker 1: Daniel Bober, it's like when, let me just compare it

117
00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,120
Speaker 1: to a little low lady you pass in the street

118
00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:47,720
Speaker 1: and she's got a walk or and she pulls out

119
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,720
Speaker 1: an oozy on you and takes your money and runs.

120
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,600
Speaker 1: You don't see it coming that, I'm what am I

121
00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,320
Speaker 1: trying to say? Put it in forensic psychiatric words. Well,

122
00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:57,800
Speaker 1: I ask you, it's a little bit different than an

123
00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 1: old lady. A twelve year old doesn't really have the

124
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,040
Speaker 1: compath to make those types of I'm saying, you don't

125
00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,360
Speaker 1: see it coming, Bober. I know there's a difference in

126
00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,320
Speaker 1: a little old lady and a twelve year old girl.

127
00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,520
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is the whole wolf in sheep's clothing thing. Bobra. Yeah, well,

128
00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,000
Speaker 1: I agree with you. You You definitely don't see it coming things.

129
00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,120
Speaker 1: It's not something you would ever see coming. I agree

130
00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,200
Speaker 1: with you on that. Wait, you're the renowned forhysics psychiatrist

131
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,120
Speaker 1: and you're takeaway is, yeah, Nancy, is something you don't

132
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,760
Speaker 1: see coming. That's it. I've already said that, doctor Bober.

133
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,760
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to think of something impressive and psychiatric

134
00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,760
Speaker 1: right now. Well, let me just say that if it

135
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,720
Speaker 1: was something we would see coming, then this wouldn't even

136
00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,880
Speaker 1: be a story that we'd be talking about. But the point,

137
00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,400
Speaker 1: but my point is is that it's something that you

138
00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,320
Speaker 1: would not expect that of a twelve year old, but

139
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,280
Speaker 1: when it happens, it's something that you is explainable by

140
00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,040
Speaker 1: the fact that they don't really have the capacity to

141
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,959
Speaker 1: waigh the future consequences of their actions. Well, you're certainly

142
00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,440
Speaker 1: right about that, Levi pagec. All you had to do

143
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,480
Speaker 1: was say skating rink and everything went sideways. Let's just

144
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,719
Speaker 1: go back to the party. What happened. So the night

145
00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,400
Speaker 1: they had a sleepover, and after the sleepover, in the morning,

146
00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 1: the three girls went to the park. They went for

147
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,160
Speaker 1: a walk, and this was Morgan Geyser and Anissa Weir's

148
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,000
Speaker 1: idea to go for a walk. So they went out

149
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,680
Speaker 1: into the woods and while they were in the woods,

150
00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,800
Speaker 1: they were playing hide and seek, or they were pretending

151
00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,920
Speaker 1: to play hide and seek, and they told Peyton Lautner

152
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,360
Speaker 1: to lay down in the in the leaves and that

153
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,520
Speaker 1: they were going to hide. Well, instead, Morgan Geyser pulled

154
00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,000
Speaker 1: out a knife and stabbed her nineteen times. And this

155
00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,360
Speaker 1: is after they have as spend the night with a

156
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,680
Speaker 1: little girl. The three of them besties take a listen

157
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,360
Speaker 1: to our friend David Muir at ABC twenty twenty with

158
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,920
Speaker 1: Angie Geysers, Morgan's mom. It's Friday night in Waukesha, Wisconsin,

159
00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,040
Speaker 1: a Milwaukee suburb. Peyton is getting ready to celebrate her

160
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:54,000
Speaker 1: best friend, Morgan Geyser's birthday. At that slumber party, Peyton

161
00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,960
Speaker 1: was so so excited. The girls met in fourth grade.

162
00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,920
Speaker 1: Peyton drawn to Morgan because she was a loner who

163
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,160
Speaker 1: needed a friend. I made friends with her when I

164
00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 1: saw that she didn't have any friends at all. Also

165
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,840
Speaker 1: at that sleepover, Anisa Wire, who was new to the

166
00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,880
Speaker 1: school and who had grown close to Morgan. They laid

167
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,160
Speaker 1: up in Morgan's s bedroom, ran up and down the stairs,

168
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,360
Speaker 1: giggling and laughing, and I mean it was just a

169
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,200
Speaker 1: normal knife, but there was nothing normal about what happened.

170
00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,840
Speaker 1: The next morning, when Morgan and Anissa suggest they all

171
00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,480
Speaker 1: go to the park and then to the woods together,

172
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,520
Speaker 1: Anissa told me to lie on the ground and like

173
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,160
Speaker 1: cover myself and like sticks and leaves and stuff, But

174
00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,560
Speaker 1: it was really just a trick while playing hide and seek.

175
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,680
Speaker 1: Then came a niece's command, and Morgan attacks Peyton with

176
00:10:42,800 --> 00:11:00,800
Speaker 1: a knife. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace be afraid. I'm

177
00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:07,280
Speaker 1: a real a little kitty Hatch jumped Fellas shot her

178
00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,440
Speaker 1: and do you remember when it started? Kind of I

179
00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,640
Speaker 1: didn't feel anything because my body was in shock, so

180
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,400
Speaker 1: they told me to lay down, you'll lose blood. Slower like,

181
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:24,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna go get help and try to get off.

182
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,360
Speaker 1: She couldn't walk and that she couldn't breathe, and they

183
00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:31,839
Speaker 1: told her they were gonna go get her help, but

184
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,800
Speaker 1: Anissa flat outside. No, we weren't getting to help. We

185
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,160
Speaker 1: wanted her to die. It. Got up and then just

186
00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,040
Speaker 1: walked until I hit a patch of grass where I

187
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,120
Speaker 1: can lay down. A bicyclist notices Peyton bloodied and lying

188
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,600
Speaker 1: in the grass. He calls nine one one. You're hearing

189
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,760
Speaker 1: our friends at ABC twenty twenty. That was David. We

190
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 1: were with Peyton along with Detective trus Sony. Did you

191
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,120
Speaker 1: notice Joseph's got Morgan that the little victim, the twelve

192
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,000
Speaker 1: year old Peyton says, oh, by the way, when you

193
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,439
Speaker 1: hear them refer to Bella, that's her nickname. Peyton's nickname

194
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,360
Speaker 1: is Bella. Did you hear her say I didn't feel anything?

195
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,320
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Well? That means and she's actually

196
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,120
Speaker 1: in some of her interviews she's gone on to say

197
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 1: that she was in shock. And I'm sure that that's

198
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,840
Speaker 1: what's been conveyed to her because she would have asked, well,

199
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,160
Speaker 1: why didn't I feel anything. It's a primal response that

200
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,040
Speaker 1: we have to being attacked like this. And Nancy, this

201
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,880
Speaker 1: little girl will stab nineteen times over a variety of

202
00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,280
Speaker 1: areas in her body, so after a period of time,

203
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,800
Speaker 1: the body is beginning to shut down just so that

204
00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,240
Speaker 1: she's not going to feel this response. Man, I've always

205
00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,400
Speaker 1: heard of your body going into shock and you don't

206
00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,160
Speaker 1: feel things. You know, Jason, you and I've discussed this

207
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,200
Speaker 1: many many times. Jason oceans with me, veteran defense attorney

208
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:49,520
Speaker 1: in the Tristate area, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. Jason,

209
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,079
Speaker 1: I always wondered about my fiance when he was murdered.

210
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,760
Speaker 1: You know, he was shot five times in the neck

211
00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,680
Speaker 1: that faced the head. I always hoped that he went

212
00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:05,040
Speaker 1: into shock and didn't understand or know what was happening,

213
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,280
Speaker 1: that he was alive and then he was gone. But

214
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,440
Speaker 1: I also know that when he got to the hospital,

215
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,520
Speaker 1: even after all that, he was physically still alive. His

216
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,520
Speaker 1: heart was still beating. So I guess it's a blessing

217
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:24,679
Speaker 1: when people physically go into shock, for sure. Nancy, you know,

218
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,880
Speaker 1: as the doctor said that that's a natural reaction, and

219
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,800
Speaker 1: you know, you listen to the testimony of and you're

220
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,680
Speaker 1: just you're shocked as well. You know, she reacted that way,

221
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,000
Speaker 1: and the twelve year old scenario of what happened to her.

222
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,080
Speaker 1: She explains it the only natural and in some way

223
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,959
Speaker 1: a blessing that she doesn't feel that physical pain of

224
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,800
Speaker 1: being stabbed nineteen times. You know, I've noticed it with

225
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:56,400
Speaker 1: my daughter, Doctor Daniel Bibram a little Lucy the other day,

226
00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,400
Speaker 1: we tried, what a scene to take fat Boy for

227
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,280
Speaker 1: a walk. I even had him on a leash. Somehow

228
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 1: he wiggled out. He's the Docs and mix. He wiggled

229
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,480
Speaker 1: out of the leash. He took off running and got

230
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,559
Speaker 1: between two rot wilders. He started the fight with two

231
00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:16,400
Speaker 1: rot wilders in between them, and I immediately take off,

232
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,520
Speaker 1: which was completely wrong, but I instinctively tried to pull

233
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,840
Speaker 1: him out from between the two rot wilders who basically

234
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 1: just ignored him, thank goodness. But he was, I guess,

235
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 1: fighting with himself, trying to egg them on. But I

236
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,720
Speaker 1: turned back quickly because I yelled at the children, stay away,

237
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,480
Speaker 1: go back, don't don't come over here. Lucy had just frozen.

238
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,000
Speaker 1: She was still standing in the same position, holding the

239
00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,040
Speaker 1: leash in her hand, dangling. John David was jumping up

240
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,640
Speaker 1: and down, yelling and running around in circles and trying

241
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,440
Speaker 1: to come over. But Lucy froze. And I've noticed that,

242
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,560
Speaker 1: doctor Bober, what is that instinct when you are in

243
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,920
Speaker 1: shot and just freeze? Well, Nancy, they talked about fight

244
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,320
Speaker 1: or flay, but it's really fight, flate or freeze, and

245
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,000
Speaker 1: that's the freeze. And the freeze is sort of what

246
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,600
Speaker 1: we called dissociation, where you're disconnected from your thoughts and

247
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,640
Speaker 1: your emotions when you become too overwhelmed. That's what it is.

248
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,080
Speaker 1: Floyd Siger with me twenty two years homicide detective, an

249
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,240
Speaker 1: author of Homicide The View from Inside the Yellow Tape. Cloyd,

250
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,840
Speaker 1: have you seen that on criminal scenes before, where witnesses

251
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,720
Speaker 1: defenditis victims just freeze in the moment. I have several times,

252
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,520
Speaker 1: and I've also talked to a lot of people who

253
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,520
Speaker 1: have been stabbed and survived, and they said the same thing.

254
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,080
Speaker 1: They didn't even know they were being stabbed. They thought

255
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,800
Speaker 1: they were just being punched. And you know, fortunately I

256
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,640
Speaker 1: could talk to some parents of a young girl that

257
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,320
Speaker 1: was stabbed to death and tell them she probably didn't

258
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,880
Speaker 1: suffer before she died, and that made a lot to

259
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,240
Speaker 1: them because it is, I mean here all the time

260
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,200
Speaker 1: I put it over my entire career. I didn't even

261
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,680
Speaker 1: know it's being stabbed. I just thought it's being punished.

262
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,400
Speaker 1: So I mean, that is a blessing. I've heard it too.

263
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,800
Speaker 1: I have heard that too. Well, that is what this

264
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,160
Speaker 1: little girl was saying, that she didn't feel anything at

265
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,320
Speaker 1: the beginning. Listen, do you remember leaving the park to

266
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,360
Speaker 1: go to the woods. They just wanted to a goal

267
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,440
Speaker 1: on a walk and I didn't think much of it.

268
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 1: It's just a walk. It's in Waka Shot, Like what

269
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:11,000
Speaker 1: bad stuff happens in Waka Shaw, Wisconsin. We're going to

270
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,200
Speaker 1: play hie and Lisa told me to lie on the

271
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,040
Speaker 1: ground and like cover myself in like sticks and leaves

272
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,040
Speaker 1: and stuff. But it was really just a trick. I

273
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:27,480
Speaker 1: br and they you and I whatever when you say

274
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:33,760
Speaker 1: you want to I away. I've been now, I remember,

275
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,880
Speaker 1: go crazy. Thank you? Yeah, what did you do that?

276
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:50,120
Speaker 1: You told you that. When you hear them describe to

277
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,160
Speaker 1: investigators and he's telling Morgan just to do it. I

278
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,520
Speaker 1: think the word was gobalistic. Oh, I remember that. I

279
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,400
Speaker 1: do remember them chatting right next to me while I

280
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:05,200
Speaker 1: was just laying there, stabbed nineteen times and left by

281
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,840
Speaker 1: her attackers to quote, bleed out dead in the woods.

282
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,160
Speaker 1: The shock. Her attackers are two other twelve year old

283
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,960
Speaker 1: little girls. In the last days, the victim, who miraculously

284
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:22,840
Speaker 1: survived her mom says. Doctors claim that they found one

285
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 1: of the stab wounds about an eighth of an inch

286
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,520
Speaker 1: from one of her arteries, an eighth of an inch

287
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,680
Speaker 1: between life and death. How could two twelve year old

288
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:40,240
Speaker 1: little besties do something like this? Listen to our friend

289
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,080
Speaker 1: David Muir with Peyton after the stab. The name contains

290
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,000
Speaker 1: the encourage you just lay down in the woods and rest.

291
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:47,639
Speaker 1: For what they really wanted are going to do was

292
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,480
Speaker 1: bleed out in the woods. And do you remember what

293
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,160
Speaker 1: you said to them? I trusted you, and then they

294
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 1: told me to lay down. You'll lose blood slower if

295
00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:04,760
Speaker 1: we're gonna go get help. She couldn't walk and that

296
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,520
Speaker 1: she couldn't and they told her they were gonna go

297
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,800
Speaker 1: get her help, but Anissa flat outside. No, we weren't

298
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 1: getting help. We wanted her to die. Do you remember

299
00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,399
Speaker 1: the moment they left you? I think I remember them

300
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 1: running away, but I kind of just lay there for

301
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,320
Speaker 1: a minute. You walked out of the woods, it, got up,

302
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,639
Speaker 1: grabbed a couple of trees for support, I think, and

303
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,639
Speaker 1: then just walked until I hit a patch of grass

304
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,280
Speaker 1: where I could lay down. It's amazing that she had

305
00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,800
Speaker 1: the strength to do that with the injuries that she had.

306
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,800
Speaker 1: When I told her that the girls were in custody,

307
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,639
Speaker 1: it seemed to give her a sense of relief. The

308
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,960
Speaker 1: girls were ultimately arrested for first degree at Tom Thomas side.

309
00:18:44,240 --> 00:19:01,359
Speaker 1: That's a very serious charge. Crime stories with Nancy Grace,

310
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,359
Speaker 1: it wasn't until we sat down and we started talking

311
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,840
Speaker 1: with the girls that we really knew what was going

312
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 1: on that it was two twelve year old girls had

313
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,679
Speaker 1: a planned for six months to kill their friends. You

314
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,320
Speaker 1: don't often see this with adults, and to have this

315
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:24,400
Speaker 1: happened between twelve year old is absolutely horrifying. Yeah, where

316
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:32,359
Speaker 1: are you body now, Um, I thought it was still

317
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 1: stopped it crime. Did you think that she died? Yeah,

318
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,560
Speaker 1: she is alive. Have you ever watched any of those interrogations.

319
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,000
Speaker 1: I watched a little bit, but we should reaction. It

320
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 1: was a little shocking to me to see that they

321
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,440
Speaker 1: had this big, huge plan that they had been working

322
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 1: on for months. A big, huge plan they had been

323
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 1: working on for months. A little girl has to spend

324
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,400
Speaker 1: the night birthday party where there are other twelve year

325
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 1: old friends. The three of them go for a walk

326
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,719
Speaker 1: and the two friends Marketing Geyser and Anissa were execute

327
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 1: a long planned scheme to murder Peyton lawn Or just

328
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 1: twelve years old, also known as Bella. You were hearing

329
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,439
Speaker 1: our friend David Murror at twenty twenty speaking because in

330
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: the last days Peyton speaks out a huge plan that

331
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 1: they had for months. But why listen? This is where

332
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 1: the story takes another turn to a fictional character on

333
00:20:39,960 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 1: the internet that is all back now. A niece to

334
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: explained to me that to prove yourself worthy to slender

335
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:24,160
Speaker 1: you would have to kill somebody. You have to kill

336
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 1: someone to go live with slender Man. You're hearing our

337
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 1: friend David murror and detectives during the investigation of the

338
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: attempt to stab little twelve year old Bella dead. Welcome

339
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: back home, Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank you

340
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 1: for being with us. Leavi page with me crime online

341
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: dot com investigative journalist who is slender Man. So this

342
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 1: is a fictional character, Nancy, that is very prevalent in

343
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:57,360
Speaker 1: creepy pasta communities and creepy pasta communities is like horror

344
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: stories that people tell on form like Reddit. It's very

345
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: popular there. And this is a guy that someone drew

346
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 1: an artist and he has a featureless face. He's tall, thin,

347
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: he's often wearing a suit. He looks very ghost like,

348
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 1: and he likes to stalk and traumatize children in these

349
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: creepy pasta stories. He also uses mind control to tell

350
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: them what to do. And apparently Morgan Geyser was obsessed

351
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: with slender Man. When law enforcement got a search warrant

352
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,679
Speaker 1: for her room, they found drawings of slender Man. She

353
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: had researched him on the internet, had read creepy pasta

354
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 1: stories about him, and they also found that she had

355
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: been thinking about murder for a long time because months

356
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,239
Speaker 1: in advance of this attack, she had searched on the

357
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: internet how to get away with murder. Well, there's everything

358
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 1: you need to show premeditation. To defense attorney Jason Oceans,

359
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: the girls tell police they were convinced murder their little

360
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 1: friend Peyton Lawtner known as Bella by slender Man. Slender

361
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 1: Man's not real, Jason, He's fictional. And how can both

362
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: girls have the same psychiatric delusion at the same time.

363
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 1: That's the same thing I keep talking about all of

364
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: Epstein's guards in the jail. How can they all fall

365
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 1: asleep at the same time and leave him to be

366
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: found dead? How can two little girls have the same

367
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 1: psychiatric break with reality? This was just their excuse for

368
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 1: murdering their little friend. They are murderers, and Nancy I

369
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: analogize this type of you know, mind control that the

370
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: young lady placed in the slender Man character to you know,

371
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 1: Jim Jones or any cult or David Koresh where people

372
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: are willing to not only to sacrifice themselves but their

373
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: children in belief. And those are adults, right, brain formed

374
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 1: out all the way by twenty two right and uh,

375
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: and these are adults with children, and you would think,

376
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: my god, you know, sacrifice yourself. How do you do

377
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 1: your children? It is it does shock the conscience that

378
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 1: this happened. Um and and and clearly from you know,

379
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: monitoring your children and you know, creepy pasta stories because

380
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: they're creepy with fun, but noticing some differences in your children.

381
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: We've being withdrawn or you know, just something more sinister. Uh,

382
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: is the responsibility of parenting. You can't just be disengaged

383
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: when your child has been having seemingly these thoughts, murderous

384
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: thoughts for so long. You've got to see a change

385
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: in your child. You just can't be an absenteep arrand

386
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: what about it? Do Dodger Daniel Bober joining me forensic

387
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: psychiatrists out of the Florida jurisdiction. Apparently the parents knew nothing,

388
00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 1: had no idea anything was going on with their children. Yeah, Nancy,

389
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: you see this a lot. For example, I remember during

390
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 1: the Columbine shootings, parents had no idea that that Klebold

391
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: and Harris were stockpiling weapons in their own garage, Like,

392
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: they never bothered to check that there were weapons being

393
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: stockpiling their garage. So, unfortunately, this is something that happens

394
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: with parents. They just kind of give their kids. These

395
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 1: electronic babysitters like cell phones, and they are not really

396
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: paying attention to what's going on. But in regards to

397
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: what you said before, yes, of course the kids did

398
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: not have the same delusion. But sometimes when you get

399
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 1: two kids together and one of them has a more

400
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: dominant personality and more dominant traits, they will lead the

401
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: weaker kid to go along with their plan, even though

402
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: it's not something they would have done on their own.

403
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. I've never gone into an

404
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: interview so blind as I am in this one. I

405
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,239
Speaker 1: thought that maybe this was all about a boy. This

406
00:25:51,320 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: is a fight about a boy. Okay, we didn't know

407
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: what these girls were going to tell us. What were

408
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: you trying to do with her? When you stand her

409
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: kill her? I'm right as to say it. We were

410
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: trying to kill her? Why did you pick? I didn't

411
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: you picture? Who? Picture whatever? I needed to were talking about?

412
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: My thought was why would she do this? Let's say, like,

413
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: who the heck is slender Man? To think that tune

414
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: twelve year olds would come up with something like this

415
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: and plan it out for six months. As soon as

416
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: I heard I knew that this was going to be

417
00:26:43,200 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: a Big Deal Clime Stories with Nancy Grace over my radio.

418
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: I heard that a twelve year old girl had been

419
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: stabbed about a mile and a half away from this location.

420
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: At one momentum Triends, remember, a caller on Big Ben

421
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: came upon a twelve year old email two peers of

422
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: me stabbed. She peers to be what stab stabbed. The

423
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: road that she was located on was Big Ben Road

424
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: at the dead end of that Peyton wasn't moving a

425
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: whole lot. As I approached her, I said, Hi, I'm

426
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,479
Speaker 1: off sir Dan. Are you okay? And she said no,

427
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 1: And I said, okay, help is on the way. Just

428
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: stay right where you are. And as I got closer,

429
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: I started to see a little bit more blood, And

430
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: the closer I got, the more blood I saw. Somehow

431
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: she'd been able to pull herself out of those woods,

432
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: and in another moment of strength, she was able to

433
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 1: communicate with him. I asked her who did this, and

434
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: she told me her friend Morgan. I then asked her

435
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: where did this happen and she told me that happened

436
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: in the woods. She was the first one to reveal

437
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: that it was Morgan, her best friend, who was behind this.

438
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: You're hearing Officer Dan Klein speaking with twenty twenties David Muir.

439
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: Right now, these two girls, Morgan Geyser and Anissa were

440
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: in a mental institution, but now appealing that conviction. Are

441
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: they set to be released? Levi Page Crime Online dot

442
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Levi. When the search warrant was executed

443
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: on Geyser and War's homes, what was found? So I

444
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: mentioned about the Internet searches on Morgan's computer that said

445
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: how to get away with murder? They had also found

446
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: mutilated dolls in her room that had the body parts

447
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: cut off of them. Oh, dear Lord in heaven did

448
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, professor of forensics, an author

449
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan,

450
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: this is right up your alley, speaking of forensics. Yeah, well, Nancy,

451
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: let me go to something real quick that you know,

452
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: we've talked about this, this obsession that these girls have

453
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: with slender Man, and they're doing his bidding and living

454
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: in this fantastical world where they're you know, they've got

455
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: to make some kind of I don't know, sacrifice this guy.

456
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: Let me tell you what's based in reality. What's based

457
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: in reality is this poor girl was subject to being

458
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: stabbed by five blade of five inches in length, and

459
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: she stabbed nineteen times. Nancy, her liver was actually clipped.

460
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: It passed through her pancreas it passed through her diaphragm,

461
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: and she was very close to dying. You know, I

462
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: did a calculation just a moment ago. Let's just say

463
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: that she only weighed eighty pounds twelve years old. You know,

464
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: she's gotten less than a gallon of blood in her body.

465
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: It is an absolute miracle that she survived. And I'm

466
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: just talking about the organs, not to mention all the

467
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: little peripheral stab wounds that she's just she had an

468
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: angel on her shoulder at that time. The injuries done

469
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: to this twelve year old little girl are overwhelming. But

470
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: listen to this after we're in geyser or tell detectives

471
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: they had to kill Bella to become Slender Man's servants.

472
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: We now know that when the jury decided the little

473
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: girls were mentally insane, we had a mental defect. This

474
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: means that every six months they can petition the court

475
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: to be released. Every six months, according to the victim's mom.

476
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: She says, the potential release of an assilla that methodically

477
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: planned and executed an attack on our little girl where

478
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: she was stabbed nineteen times puts the community and our

479
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: family at risk. Leave page. As a matter of fact,

480
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 1: they are appealing their treatment as an adults. Isn't that right?

481
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: You're correct, Nancy, But I'm wondering how that's going to

482
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,479
Speaker 1: work out because they pleaded guilty. Anissa Weir took a

483
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: plea deal, and she put pleading guilty to a lesser

484
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: charge of attempted second degree intentional homicide as part of

485
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: her deal. A jury would hear her in insanity defense.

486
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: Then they were going to decide on whether or not

487
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: she would be responsible and sent to prison. Are not

488
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: guilty by a reason of a mental defect and sent

489
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: to a mental institution. They wanted to send her to

490
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: a mental institution so she didn't get sent to prison.

491
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, a jury found her not guilty by

492
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: reason of a mental disease or defect and was sentenced

493
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: to a twenty five year commitment into a state institution.

494
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: And Morgan Geyser's lawyers also made a similar deal. She

495
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to attempted first degree intentional homicide, and prosecutors

496
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: agreed as part of this not to challenge her insanity defense.

497
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: And she was sentenced to forty years in a mental institution.

498
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: So how do you appeal something that you agreed to

499
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: as part of a plea deal. Well, you're actually correct

500
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: on that. In Jason Oceans, what they're arguing is they

501
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: should not have had a jury trial, a ben's trial,

502
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: or even a plea in adult court. That's correct, Nancy.

503
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm just still torn as defense counsel

504
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: and father between these, you know, these two parallels, And

505
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: I guess the part of me that says that they're

506
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: not in prison but in a mental mental institution seems

507
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: to me more appropriate at this point in juncture. You know,

508
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: we can look at it again and see about mental rehabilitation,

509
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't want them in population, even segregated. And

510
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: I think the ability to get mental health because at

511
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: twelve years old, to be lured into or dominated by

512
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,479
Speaker 1: another twelve year old into evil, to me, shocks the system.

513
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: And for the older one, morgan more dominant in the

514
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: in the entire process and planning it out, and the

515
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: mutilated dolls. Yeah, an appropriate sentence. I'm just shocked. I

516
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: am too, and I hope this appeal doesn't work. DEPLOYD. Steiger,

517
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: twenty two years homicide detective, author of Homicide The view

518
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: from inside the Yellow Tape. When you commit a murder

519
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: at age twelve, or in this case, attempted murder, that's

520
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: a tough sell to be released back out into the community,

521
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: because if you're homicidal at that age, what are you

522
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: going to be like at twenty one. Yeah, that's just

523
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: the question. I mean, it really puts people at risk.

524
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: But first of all, I also wanted to say that

525
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: this police department, which is a relatively small policepartment, probably

526
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: not very experienced at homicide. They did a great job

527
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: from the patrol officer getting there asking appropriate questions, and

528
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: great job by both the detectives and their interviews and

529
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: the techniques they use, and the casualness in the setting

530
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: of the room. So, I mean, you know, people from

531
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: big cities New York, Los Angeles, they don't expect to

532
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: have a case like this, but when it is in

533
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: a suburban, smaller town, you think to be overwhelmed. But

534
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: they came, they stepped to the plate, But you're right

535
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: about that. I mean, how much risk you gonna take?

536
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a grandfather little girls, you know, I

537
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: wouldn't want them around anybody like this. So it's just

538
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: it's just a terrible case all the way around. Take

539
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: a listen to Peyton the victim, also known as Bella,

540
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: as she speaks out. Have you ever watched any of

541
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 1: those interrogations. I watched a little bit. What was your reaction.

542
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: It was a little shocking to me to see that

543
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: they had this big, huge plan that they had been

544
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: working on for months. Do you remember leaving the park

545
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: to go to the woods. They just wanted to go

546
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: on a walk, and I didn't think much of it.

547
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 1: It's just a walk. It's in Wakashaw, Like what bad

548
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: stuff happens in Wakashaw, Wisconsin. And Lisa told me to

549
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: lie on the ground owned and like cover myself in

550
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: like sticks and leaves and stuff. But it was really

551
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,919
Speaker 1: just a trick. When you hear them describe to investigators

552
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: and he'sa telling Morgan just to do it, I think

553
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: that the word was globalistic. Oh, I remember that. I

554
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: do remember them chatting right next to me while I

555
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: was just lying there, and do you remember when it started?

556
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: Kind Of I didn't feel anything because my body was

557
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: in shock from the adrenaline. I didn't feel a thing.

558
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: Do you remember the moment they left you? I think

559
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: I remember them running away, but I kind of just

560
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: lay there for a minute. You walked out of the woods.

561
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: It got up, grabbed a couple of trees for support,

562
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: I think, and then just walked until I hit a

563
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: patch of grass where I could lay down. Wow to

564
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: doctor Daniel bober Or forensics psychia just joining us, what

565
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: would be the prospects of these two girls would be

566
00:35:53,560 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: killers ever becoming anything less than a threat if they

567
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,879
Speaker 1: are released? Nancy, I totally agree with you. I'm sorry

568
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: I strike that I totally disagree with you. The brain

569
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: of a twelve year old, I believe that's what you

570
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: call a Freudian slip. But go ahead. The brain of

571
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: a twelve year old is just not the brain of

572
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: a twenty five year old. And the science is not

573
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: consistent with what you guys are saying. For example, children

574
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 1: who display what we call conduct disorder behavior, two thirds

575
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 1: of them do not go on, I repeat, do not

576
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: go on to become anti social. So a twelve year

577
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: old committing a murder. Wait a minute, wait, what did

578
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: you say conduct disorder? It's what we call conduct disorder.

579
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 1: It's sort of the forerunner. Does that include stabbing deaths?

580
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: I agree that a stabbing. I mean, you're making it

581
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: sound like she just threw a tantrum in the floor

582
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: of target. No, that's not what happened. But that's actually

583
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: that would actually be more oppositional behavior. But the point

584
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: I'm trying to make is you can't say that someone

585
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: who's twelve who commits a murder at twenty five is

586
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: going to be a menace to society because there are

587
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 1: a totally different person. Did they have a totally different

588
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 1: brain at twenty five than they did at age twelve? Well,

589
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: you know, there may not be much we can do

590
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 1: about it, because one of the girls who pled guilty

591
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: to stabbing her little twelve year old friend nineteen times

592
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: and leaving her for dead to please a pretend character

593
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: named slender Man has appealed. We believe that that appeal,

594
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: if granted, could end in the reversal of the sentence

595
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 1: or the conviction. The basis of the appeal, we believe,

596
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 1: is going to be that the girls should not have

597
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: been handled, whether it's a plea of bens trial or

598
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: a jury trial in adult court. But I do know

599
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: that what happened has changed Peyton Lawtner the victim's life forever.

600
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: One of the things I will never forget from this

601
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: interview with Peyton Latner all these years later is what

602
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: she said to me when I asked, what would you

603
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: say to Morgan Geyser if you saw her today, if

604
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: she saw the interview, what would you want to say

605
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 1: to her? There's a lot that I would want to

606
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: say to her. I would probably initially thank her. I

607
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: would say, because of what she did, I have the

608
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: life I have now, which I really really like it.

609
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: You do know that when people hear you say I

610
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: would probably thank her that they're going to be surprised. Yeah,

611
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: I'm surprised to hear myself say that. Why because I

612
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: wouldn't think that someone who went through what I did

613
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 1: would ever say that. But that's truly how I feel

614
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: like without the whole situation, I wouldn't be who I

615
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: am stronger. Well, I hear what the little victim is

616
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: saying now, but I also know she still sleeps with

617
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: scissors under her pillow and can't openly make friends or

618
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: trust anyone. After lying on the forest floor, bleeding out

619
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: near death, wait as justice unfalls Nancy Grace Crime Stories,

620
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: signing off Goodbye friend,