1 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: Mexico was in kills. In the nineteen nineties. A beloved 2 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: presidential candidate had been assassinated. The pessont had collapsed, and 3 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: families lost everything overnight. And in the middle of all 4 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: that kills, Pope to Paul the Second visited the country. 5 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: He held mass smiled, waved, people adored him. But behind 6 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: the scenes, away from the crowds and cameras, Masielle was 7 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: there too, right in the inner circle, and soon after 8 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: the publicly praised him as an efficacious guide to youth. 9 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: For most people it seemed like a throwaway comment, but 10 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: for those hurt by Massielle's secrets, it was a knife 11 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: in the god. He brought up all these questions. Did 12 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: the Pope not know or did he not want to know? 13 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: Either way, it was impossible to continue to be silent. 14 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: That same month, someone asked Alberdo Atier to meet with 15 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: a man he didn't know. He said yes, having no 16 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: idea that this meeting would change his life forever. Atier 17 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: is tall, with kind eyes and silver hair. At the time, 18 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: he was a Diacesan priest in his forties, respected, thoughtful, 19 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: known for speaking his mind. He wasn't part of the 20 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: legion he worked with everyday people, the ones the church 21 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: I knew often overlooked. The man he was about to 22 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: meet was s. Juan Manuel Fernandez, a legendary priest very 23 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: close to Marseille. Fernandez once was the dean of one 24 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: of the legionaries mostly universities in Mexico City. He was 25 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: recovering from a stroke and had been living at the 26 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: Hospital Espanol. That's where Atie went to visit him. Fernande 27 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: suggested they grabbed lunch across the street, small Spanish restaurant, cozy, familiar, 28 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 1: the kind of place where the waiters knew Fernandez by name. 29 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: Mimbito comer Inferente by old Restaurante de Santander, Preciava locate 30 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 2: and Los Piceos. 31 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: It was December Christmas lights hung from the windows. They 32 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: took a quiet table in the back. Fernandez ordered one 33 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: and a fish while he joked with the waiters. Once 34 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: the food arrived, Fernandez dropped the small talk. He was 35 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: shaking when he began to tell his story. 36 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 2: Lapreal comic Marcial Maziel Lepidiel in particular as far Marcius 37 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: con drug as dolentina, injectava in Jactava or injectava and 38 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 2: the land, the barrios Masile, drogado, variosias ast. 39 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: Fernandez told him that when he was just a teen, 40 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: Marcile would send him to the pharmacy to get him 41 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: do latina an opio being killer. Then Marzielle would lie 42 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: down in his bed, uncover his arm and asked Fernandez 43 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: to inject him. Sometimes Marzielle would pass out for days, 44 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: and that was the best case Inario. When he didn't 45 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: pass out, something else happened. He would ask Fernandez to 46 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: stay and that's when the abuse began. 47 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: He get this pose or anti antis, he is spos 48 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 2: aviient theedo relations. 49 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: The two men stopped eating, the fish went cold, their 50 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: drinks untouched. At first, Attia was dumbfounded. He struggled to 51 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: believe what he was hearing, not because it didn't sound true, 52 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: but because it was too awful. To imagine. 53 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 3: Your principio, the postion can only create ceramited. 54 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: As he watched him closely, Fernande's hands were shaking, his 55 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: voice broken, and that's when the tears came, not quiet tears. 56 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: Right there in the middle of the restaurant, Fernandez was 57 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: falling apart. People. A lot of other tables started to 58 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 1: notice as he looked around uneasy. He remembers thinking they 59 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: are going to think I'm the one hurting him. 60 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: Loo avan donado totalmenti. 61 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 3: Siendo erra ermano and administered. 62 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: It broke him seeing him like that, so alone, so 63 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: abandoned by the church they both served. Fernandez was angry 64 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: and hurt, but what he really wanted wasn't revenge. It 65 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: was peace. He wanted to forgive and let go so 66 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: he could die with his heat off his heart. 67 00:05:51,640 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 2: Maybe jo no mikiro morive massiel madistrui you know quiero 68 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 2: marim resentmento orchis Christiano. 69 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: He told the TI he didn't want to die with 70 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: presentment in his heart, that it wasn't Christian, But he 71 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: also couldn't forget what had been done to him. So 72 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: right there in the Spanish restaurant, a team made a 73 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: pact with him to walk beside him in this fight 74 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: for justice, because companion is Atia promised he used the 75 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: church's own system, its own rules to try and stop 76 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: Marciel from within. 77 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: See you the compsticia a, then a theentroplicias not. 78 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 3: For party Nari massing combrado Mochiel Lora. 79 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: Adil had no way of knowing that the promise he 80 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: made that day would be the start of a long, 81 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: painful fight, one that would stretch across decades and shake 82 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: his faith to the core. My name is Helena Sada 83 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: and this is secret scandal, the Many Secrets of Marseilles 84 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: Massiel episode five, Forgiven but not Forgotten. Adi was still 85 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: a boy when he heard God calling him to something, 86 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: not money, not success, but helping people. He grew up 87 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: in Mexico, where the church wasn't just a building, it 88 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: was where people turned when there was nowhere else to go. 89 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: As a child, he watched priests fit the hungry, sit 90 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: with the dying, listen to stories no one else had 91 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: time to hear, and he thought, that's what I want 92 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: to do. Atia also was what many would call a 93 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: modern priest. He read the Bible, but also Nietzsche and Hermanhesse. 94 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: He admired priests like Gidalgo and Morellos, the rebels who 95 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: helped start Mexico's independence, men of faith who didn't follow 96 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: orders blindly, but used their privilege to speak up. Atia 97 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: believed in the church that if you follow the rules, 98 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: if you told the truth, someone would listen. Because the 99 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: church at its core was supposed to stand with the vulnerable. 100 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 1: That's what he had seen, That's what he believed, so 101 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: went for now. When this told him he wanted justice, 102 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: Adia didn't hesitate. He planned to turn to the church's 103 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: own rules because deep down he believed those laws would work, 104 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: that they could punish the guilty and protect the vulnerable, 105 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: and that maybe maybe redeemed the church from within. Atia 106 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: knew the process would belong, but what he didn't know 107 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: was just how little time they actually had. More on 108 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: that after the break February nineteen ninety five, it was 109 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: a cloudy Tuesday morning in Mexico City. Adia was just 110 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: waking up when the phone rang. What he heard on 111 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: the other side of the line made his heart drop. 112 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: Juan Manuel Fernandez had just died in a hospital in 113 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 1: Mexico City. It had been only two months since their 114 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,719 Speaker 1: launch at a Spanish restaurant, but death doesn't wait for 115 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: plans to come together, and Fernande's clock had run out. 116 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: In his final weeks, Fernandez had been busy with his 117 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 1: plans to seek justice, but he was also planning his 118 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 1: own funeral. The day they met He'd asked Atier for 119 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: one last. 120 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 2: Favor, yourue les la misaacy. 121 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: Fernandez asked a tier to lead his funeral mass. But 122 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: there was something else. A Tier was to deliver a message, 123 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: one final truth he needed the world to hear. The 124 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: morning of the funeral, Atiyad dressed in silence, he slipped 125 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 1: on his vestments, slowly, methodically. Inside the chapel, it was 126 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: still mourners building, quietly wrapped in dark cloaks. The seats 127 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: were filled with older men, many in their sixties. Some 128 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: were former legionaries, others were colleagues. All of them knew 129 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: him as a leader, a man of conviction. None of 130 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 1: them knew the secret he had carried for decades, but 131 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: they were about to find out. Attias stepped up to 132 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: the altar. He began the mass. He moved through it 133 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: with gear, each step measured. Then became the pause, a long, 134 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: heavy silence. He looked out over the room. He debated 135 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: exactly how to say what he was about to say. 136 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 1: He wasn't sure how his words were land, but he 137 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 1: knew he had to say them. 138 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 3: Did he mean. 139 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 2: Manuel Primero, the el pero pie Housticia. 140 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: Atier said it plainly, juile. Manuel Fernandez had forgiven, but 141 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:34,719 Speaker 1: he was asking for justice. No names, no explanations. He 142 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,719 Speaker 1: didn't need to. Those who knew knew. He waited for 143 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: the congregation of holy men to respond. The room shifts. 144 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: Some men looked down, crying, others blushed, A few turned pale. 145 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: The room remained silent. 146 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 2: When Primero vis on rogando say rostos no there mas. 147 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: These were men who had followed Maseille defended him. Some 148 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: looked confused, but most understood exactly what had just been said. 149 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: When the ceremony was over, a man approached him. As 150 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: he loosened the collar from his neck. 151 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 2: He loo terminaldo la misa missa, and then demos perfect Manuel, 152 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 2: almost vigilsie. 153 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 1: It was Jose Barva, you remember him from last episode, 154 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: the former legionary who was assaulted by Marseille as a team. 155 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: The same man who, after surviving open heart surgery, decided 156 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: he had to speak out. Jose told that, ye, we 157 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: understood the message perfectly. We were also victims of Marseille. 158 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: They had never met before, but Joselva began to open up. 159 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: They agreed to meet again soon, somewhere they could talk 160 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: with that rush. 161 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 3: At the ties When they finally. 162 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: Met to talk, Joseba didn't hold back. His voice was calm, 163 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: but the pain underneath was unmistakable, and as a till listened, 164 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: his heart sank. Everything Barba described much Fernande's story, the 165 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: pain killers, the manipulation, the abuse, the same pattern, the 166 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: same words, the same nightmare Fernandez had lived through. I 167 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: THEI realized something devastating. Fernandez hadn't been the only one. 168 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: There were others, and now one of them was standing 169 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: in front of him, asking him to join the fight. 170 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: Josel Arba looked at him and said they had to 171 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: tell the world. Jose told him that he was gathering stories, 172 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: nine men in total, each with the same nightmare. He 173 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: needed every piece, every voice, to build something the church 174 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: couldn't ignore, and he needed that he has helped to 175 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: do it. At that point in early nineteen ninety five, 176 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: jose was still at the beginning of his mission. This 177 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: was before he contacted Jason Barry and the article at 178 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: the Harvard Current. Before everything, Josel was still collecting evidence. 179 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: He had tried to go to Mexican journalists, but none 180 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: of them would touch the story. Still, he was determined. 181 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: He wanted to expose Maseil and get justice for his victims. 182 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: But to do that, he needed more allies in the fight. 183 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: People like a Tier. 184 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 3: Medico oke to. 185 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: Periodicos I was inviting him to go public, to the press, 186 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: to put his Fernandez testimony in writing and speak up, 187 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: or a Tier hesitated. 188 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 2: Joy luar primero adentro poko promiti primero. 189 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: It wasn't fear holding him back. Adia was a true 190 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: believer in the church that the best way to bring 191 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: Maciel down would be to use the church's own justice 192 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: system to finally complain from the inside. And now it 193 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: wasn't just about Fernandez, it was a about all the 194 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: other victims who was just beginning to learn about. Ati 195 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: promised he'd help. He told use about to keep fighting 196 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: from the outside, to go public, talk to the press, 197 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 1: make the truth impossible to ignore. But Atia was going 198 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: to take another route when most people didn't even know existed, 199 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: something called a canonical process. And that's where the real 200 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: fight was about to begin. That's next after the break. 201 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: Before we go on, you might be wondering, if ATII 202 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: and Josse had so many testimonies, why not skip the 203 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: church and go straight to a real courtroom. Why rely 204 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: on the press or the Vatican. Well, the problem was 205 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: the timing. According to Josebarba and the other victims, they'd 206 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: been abused by Mazil between the fifties and the seventies. 207 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: They could have filed criminal charges at that time, but 208 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:19,959 Speaker 1: they didn't. Back then, they were just boys twelve to seventeen. 209 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: Most of them were too scared. Some didn't even fully 210 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: understand what had happened to them. By the nineties, the 211 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: statue of limitations had passed. That's the legal deadline for 212 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: reporting a crime. Once it runs out, the case can't 213 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: be prosecuted in court, no matter how serious it is. 214 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: For all the abuse cases, it was too late. That meant, 215 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: if Atil wanted to bring down Mazielle, he had to 216 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: do it by the church's rules. It was nineteen ninety seven. 217 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: The Harvard Current had just published Jason Berry's article about 218 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 1: the abuses, but in Mexico the church stayed silent. Most 219 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: people still saw Marselle as a saint, so Atia decided 220 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: to start at the very top. His first move was 221 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 1: to go straight to the head of the Mexican Church, 222 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: Cardinal Norberto Rivera, the Archbishop of Mexico City. It was 223 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: a long shot, a hail Mary, but it was the 224 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: biggest door he could knock on, and he had to try. 225 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: A Tia arrived early for the meeting, a folded copy 226 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: of the hard recurrent talked under his arm. When Cardinal 227 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: Rivetta walked in, Atia didn't waste time. He spoke calmly, clearly, 228 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: told him everything about Fernandez, about Barba, about the other victims. 229 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 1: He pleaded for action, speaking straight from the heart or 230 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: Rivera brushed it off. He waved his hand like swatting 231 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: a fly. Said the victims were just bitter, resentful, that 232 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 1: this was nothing more than a mere campaign against the church, 233 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: a conspiracy. 234 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 3: So complot. 235 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:31,719 Speaker 2: Kevlar continuosa me coriopato. 236 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: The Cardinal slammed his hand on the table and a 237 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: tear was kicked out of the office. That was it. 238 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: Every other path had closed. The courts couldn't touch Mosiel, 239 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 1: the press wouldn't touch him. No one in Mexico wanted 240 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: to hear it. The canonical process wasn't just the ideal 241 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: option anymore. It was the last upon left the Church's 242 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: own legal system, the big gun. But going after someone 243 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: as powerful as Massiel through that system that was going 244 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: to be complicated. So what is the canonical process. It's 245 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church's internal legal system. Think of it like 246 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: a medieval court room still operating today, a strict set 247 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: of laws and procedures the Church has used for centuries 248 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 1: to investigate and to judge its own priests. It all 249 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: starts with the testimony. A victim steps forward and tells 250 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: a story. 251 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 3: To a priest as a testimonial especial. 252 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: That priest then has to a believe you b champion 253 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: your story and take it to his boss, a bishop. 254 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: If the bishop believes it's serious, he's supposed to open 255 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: a case and send the report to the Vatican. Then 256 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: the Vatican decides whether the case should move forward. So 257 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: Atier figured, okay, slam dunk. The testimonies were ready, pages 258 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: and pages of different voices telling the same story. The painkillers, 259 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: the messages, the lie about the pope, the abuse, a 260 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: clear pattern. You just. 261 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 3: Mar lost testimonius. 262 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: Atier was already a priest, so in theory it should 263 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 1: have been simple just hand the testimonist to a bishop, right, 264 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: But here was a problem. He needed a bishop who 265 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: wasn't connected to Masiel and in Mexico. That was like 266 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 1: looking for a needle in a haystack. Masiell's people were everywhere, 267 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: every office, every peerish, every corridor of power, well almost everywhere. 268 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: There was one bishop left in a small poor town 269 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: in Vera, Cruz. The bishop had connections and wanted to 270 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 1: go straight to the Vatican, but he warned that, ye, 271 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: we need one more person on board first. The man 272 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: known as God's roth Weiler is to. 273 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 2: Colicos Los jev Perfect the Congression, Joseph Ratting. 274 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: Joseph Ratzinger. You might know him as the future Pope Benedict. 275 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: He was a Vatican's watchdog, in charge of keeping church 276 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: doctoring in line. He was known for his strict sense 277 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: of justice. It's why they call him God's rod Weiler. 278 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: Once he got hold of a problem, he wouldn't let 279 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: it go. No one had more authority inside the church 280 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: except the Pope. If anyone could stop Moselle, it was him. 281 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety nine, the bishop flew to the Vatican 282 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: and walked into Ratzinger's office, high ceilings, stone floors, whilst 283 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: lined with books, the airs smelt like old paper, and 284 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: after greeting reassenger, the bishop handed him the letter and 285 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: quietly waited. Reser began reading. No reaction at first, just 286 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: his eyes scanning the pages one by one. He didn't 287 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: ask where, since he didn't look up, but something shifted 288 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: in his face. His skin lost the little color, his 289 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 1: lips tightened. What he read shook him, not dramatically, but 290 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: in that subtle Vatican way. He held the pages a 291 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: second too long, like he didn't know where to set 292 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: them down, like he was holding a bomb. And then 293 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: finally he. 294 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 2: Spoke, lolamiell no il parimachiell is carrioi. 295 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: I'm very sorry, Father Masiele's case cannot be opened. Ratzinger 296 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: told the bishop, Masiel is very dear to the Pope. 297 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: The legioniars bringing a lot of young people, and not 298 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: only that she in mucho dinero. Mazielle also brought in money, 299 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: a lot of money that made him too powerful to touch. 300 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: The Bishop could tell that was saying this through gritted teeth, 301 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: that he was hiding something said. His hands were tied, 302 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: but it wouldn't stay that way forever, because a few 303 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: years later was going to get more powerful than anyone 304 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: in the church. And then he did. He wouldn't forget Mazielle, 305 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: but for now he couldn't do anything. When the Bishop 306 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: called a Tie to tell him what had happened, at 307 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: Ye couldn't believe it. All the effort, all those testimonies 308 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: shut down in a single conversation. A TI tried to 309 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: convince the Bishop to keep going, to push harder. He 310 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: reminded him of everything Monsieur had done. The drugs, the manipulation, 311 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: the abuse. This wasn't just a scandal, it was a sin, 312 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: a crime. But the doors in Rome had closed. The 313 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: Bishop was out of moves, and he thought back to 314 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: that lunch at a Spanish restaurant, to the way Fernandez 315 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: had cried, broken down, to the promise he made that day. Justice. 316 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: It seemed impossible. Now. He had knocked on every door 317 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: that mattered, the Vatican, the bishops, the biggest name in Mexico, 318 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: and every single one had shut him out. The church 319 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: he had served for decades, the one he had fallen 320 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: in love with as a boy. When he saw priests 321 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: feeding the hungry and sitting with the dying, felt like 322 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: it didn't exist anymore. He tried to carry on, to 323 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 1: keep his faith intact, but something had cracked Every prayer 324 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: every mass carried the shadow of what he had seen. 325 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: Then months later, something strange happened. He was someone back 326 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: to Colonel Rivetta's office, the same man who had slammed 327 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: his hand on the table and thrown him out of 328 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: his office for bringing up Moseielle, this time at the 329 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: priest himself for the worst. Maybe he was going to 330 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: be punished, sent away, expelled from the church. But Rivera 331 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: had something else in mind, a promotion. 332 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 3: Le medici Alberto i atro. 333 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: Me not Vera told him there were people in Rome 334 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: who wanted to make him a bishop, but it wouldn't 335 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: happen without his blessing, and that blessing came with the 336 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: price silence. It was a golden ticket, a new title, power, 337 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: security for life, and all he had to do was 338 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: stop asking questions. But Atia's result was bulletproof. 339 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 3: Significant. She lets you no quentic mino. 340 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: He hadn't come this far to treat truth for status, 341 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: not after everything he'd seen, And that was the moment 342 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: a Ta understood something I had always known. Massier was untouchable. 343 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: He had been protected my whole life, by bishops, by cardinals, 344 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: by the Pope himself. He'd seen it from the inside, 345 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: the way any accusation would vanish like smoke. And now 346 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: at Tia was seeing it too, not as a rumor, 347 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: not as suspicion, but in the flesh. For me, it 348 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:48,719 Speaker 1: was confirmation. For him, it was the beginning of the end. 349 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: At this state in the church for three more years. 350 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: Then in two thousand and three, he was in Chicago 351 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: when another scandal broke, another case of priest abusing children, 352 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: different names, different cities, the same audacity, And this time 353 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: he couldn't just watch from the sidelines. He realized it 354 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: wasn't just about Masiell. It was everywhere, a rod that 355 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: ran through the whole institution. So one night he cleared 356 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: the table, sat down. He pulled out a single sheet 357 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: of paper, smoothed it with his hands, and began to 358 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: write a letter to the Pope. 359 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 2: Is Karta uh compulvenuso re VOCALI mine a leisterio tocados 360 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: it does porque prolemas torturalmente existing in Likelysia, Catolica. 361 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 3: And Alissa. To JOHNO. 362 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: Brett and all, he wrote, I irrevocably resigned from the 363 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: priesthood for two reasons. First, because there are abusers who 364 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: remain untouched. And second because the problem is structural within 365 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church and no one wants to face it. 366 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: I have no intention of belonging to such an institution. 367 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: Albertotier walked away from the priesthood, but he never walked 368 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: away from the fight. If anything, living made him louder, 369 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: he told his story in every place that will listen, interviews, reports, documentaries, podcasts, 370 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: including this one, because once you see the truth, you 371 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: can't unsee it, and for some of facing that truth 372 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: means leading everything behind. In the next episode, I decide 373 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: to leave two. That's next on Sacred Scandal. Sacred Scandal 374 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: The Many Secrets of Marcelle Masel is a production of 375 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: a HAA podcast in partnership with Iheartmichael Doula podcast Network, 376 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: and is hosted by me Elena Sada, written by Menissa 377 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: Hendrix and Alvaalo saz Pedes, Produced by Alvaalo ses Pedes 378 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: and Robert Tagarza. Research and reporting by Robert Tagarza, edited 379 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: by Jasmine Rometo with the help of Carmen grat Roy. 380 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: Fact checking by Annapla. Dovar, The vocal coach for me 381 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: Elena Sada is Inadapia Executive producers at a Half Podcast 382 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: are Carmen Gradd, Isaac Lee, and j H Khr. Mixing 383 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: and sound design by Patrick and Jones. Original music by 384 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: Darko and I Am based on Patrick Hart's original composition. 385 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: Executive producers that I Heard are Leo Gomez and Arlene Santana. 386 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: Alexis Cardosa also serves as producer. Sircar Scandal was created 387 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: by Melanie Bartley and Paula Varos