1 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: I've never told your production of I Heart Radio. It's 3 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: time for another edition of book Club. You know, I 4 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: actually have enjoyed having a reason to just sit down 5 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: and read something because I love reading, but oftentimes it 6 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: would not be a priority for me, so I kind 7 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: of very rarely did it, or if I did, I 8 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: was reading a book about like the history of fishing 9 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: for the Saber podcast. Or it's not that I wasn't 10 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: reading books, but like sitting down and reading something that's 11 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: not specifically for research, right, I will say I think 12 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: I've read more in this year alone than I have 13 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: in the last two years, which is really said, Oh, 14 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: let's you know, silver linings, silver lining it is. That's true, 15 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: It's true, and I'm really enjoyed catching up on some 16 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: of the reading and then also like opening up two 17 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: different things I would have never read. I would have 18 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: never read Ash and I thought it was very, very amazing, 19 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be honest, this book was something that 20 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: I was really excited about. I really love any of 21 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: literature that's based in the South typically, so for me, 22 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: this was like, yes, let's do this one. Yes, So 23 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: today we're talking about Whiskey and Ribbons by Lisa cross 24 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: Smith and sugar warning before we get into it for 25 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: brief mentions of suicide and death, loss or or grief. 26 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: This one is very grief heavy. That's something that's strigging 27 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: for you. And also spoiler alert ish we're not gonna 28 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: give away too much. But this is a relatively new book, 29 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: and if you're interested at all in reading it, um, 30 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: then I would say press pause, go read it. It's 31 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: pretty quick read, and then come back, come back and 32 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: enjoy our book club discussion. Right. And if you are 33 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: of someone again who likes fiction based on South romance 34 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: without two bodice ripping romance, you know, um, this is 35 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: a good one. And I think it also was a 36 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 1: short story at the beginning, so I'm sure you can 37 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: find that version as well. Yes, and it's beautifully beautifully written. Um. So, 38 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: a little bit about the author. Lisa cross Smith describes 39 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: herself on her web page as a homemaker and writer 40 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: from Kentucky and she's written several several things, from Whiskey 41 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: and Ribbons to Every Kiss of War, a bunch of 42 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: short stories. She's won a lot of award she's been 43 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: in magazines, pretty prolific and well loved. So I thank 44 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: you for introducing me to her. I actually had never 45 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: read anything by her, right, um, and we had plan 46 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: on having her on, so I'm hoping that we can 47 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: have her on later in times because I am a 48 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 1: actually I'm a big fan of hers. I kind of 49 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 1: talked about that little later. I met her through a 50 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: mutual friend who was an Atlanta writer as well, so 51 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: I was really excited being able to connect with her 52 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: at all. So, yeah, this is definitely something that I'm 53 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: really glad that we got to do. It's not your 54 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: typical well not that any of them have, but this 55 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: is definitely not necessarily feminist related forward type of thing, 56 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: but it is related to women and grief and family, 57 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: so I feel like that's on topic. Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely, 58 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: So why don't you give us a rundown, a basic 59 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: rundown of the plots? Right, So, I'm just gonna give 60 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: a short summary, which this is a story with three 61 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: different perspectives of how lives are changed after death. Pregnant 62 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: Evangeline has become a widow after the loss of her husband, 63 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: who is tragically shot while on duty as a police officer. 64 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: The story is narrated by Evangeline, the wife of the 65 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: slain husband Amon, the character whose tragic death opens the story. 66 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: Y and Dalton adopted half brother and best friend of Amon, 67 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: and the timeline jumps around throughout the story just n 68 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: F Y. I yeah, And it starts immediately with the 69 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: death of Amon, and it's hanging over the entire book, 70 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: which makes it really powerful because when you're reading about 71 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: how happy everyone is before it, it's it's like a punch, 72 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: like squeeze to your heart. And I've read a lot 73 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: of interviews with the author and she's someone who loves words, 74 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: which perhaps obviously, but one of the reasons she chose 75 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: the title is just because she loved the sound of 76 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: whiskey and ribbons and I the names, like I love 77 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: the name of Angeline, and uh, we're going to talk 78 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: about this later, but there's this undercurrent of faith throughout 79 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: this book, and so I feel like I can see 80 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: it in the name of Angeline and then Aman kind 81 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: of sounding like amen um. I I also love that stuff. 82 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: So I was very excited it. So let's talk about 83 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: our characters, starting with Evangeline, because we're really seeing her story, 84 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: but from different perspectives. So for Evangeline, we see her 85 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: after the death of her husband and how she's coping. 86 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: Her story opens up with her complex feelings for her 87 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: brother in law who has moved in to help her 88 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: through this really difficult time, and care for her newborn baby, Noah. 89 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: Her narrative is really it's a very emotional one. From 90 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: grief and guilt and jealousy and lust and love and 91 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: Evangeline or she sometimes called Evie Orleany she has a 92 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: bunch of nicknames, tells her story of loss and tragedy. Yes, 93 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: starting at the end, we start right away with the 94 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: death of Amon. In the story, we see her conflicted 95 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: with the need to move on, but not sure that 96 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: the timing or even the appropriateness of her moving on 97 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: is correct. Um always kind of questioning herself and doubting herself. 98 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: She also is caught up in a game of jealousy 99 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: over her brother in law's past. But okay, let's go 100 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: back the setting of the story, sort of the if 101 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: you're looking at a timeline where we the reader are 102 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: to assume what time it actually is. It's set during 103 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: a severe winter storm in Louisville, Kentucky, where she and 104 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: her brother in law, Dalton, are in the house kind 105 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: of snowed in without her son Noah, who who is 106 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: currently staying with Evangeline's parents before the storm began, and 107 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: Evangeline is a ballet dancer slash teacher but currently is 108 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: not working due to the death of her husband and 109 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: the birth of her child. Right so, our other lead 110 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: are the lead character that you will hear from as Amon, 111 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: who is the husband of Vangeline and half adopted brother 112 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,239 Speaker 1: of Dalton and also best friends with him. Amon's story 113 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: begins with a meat cute with Evangeline and a local 114 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: church he walked security for the framing of the meetings. 115 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: Sem simple Enough, a beautiful woman who works with the 116 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: children of the church, comes to develop a friendly relationship 117 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: with the officer and eventually find love. Within Aimons story, 118 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: we see different themes of love where he's a major 119 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: character that continues that narrative his relationship with not only 120 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: his wife, but with his family, including best friend and 121 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: half brother Dalton. He's also able to keep in the 122 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: audience's mind the danger of his job as law enforcement 123 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: throughout his narrations. His eventual death would also be the 124 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: opening of a secondary plot for Evie and Dalton to 125 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: fall in love just so you know. Uh. He ends 126 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: the story, which by the way, caused for me to 127 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: sit there and sob and cry, which was a hard day, 128 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: with his journal which he writes just in case he 129 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: was not able to be there for his wife or 130 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: son later on, which we know he wasn't. Also important 131 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: to the plot is the foreboding. We already know that 132 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: he's going to die, but it still has that character. 133 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: It is a character in that level of darkness that 134 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: you know something is not going to be okay. And 135 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: the thought process for him to leave the force comes 136 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: through as well when he realizes that the dangerous part 137 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: of his job no longer just affects some of the people. 138 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: Also with that foreboding, there is the small thought in 139 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: his mind obviously in the conversation that he should leave 140 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: the force because he realizes that this is a dangerous 141 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: job and as before he didn't have too many people 142 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: depending on him, but now he has a wife and 143 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: an unborn son, and if he were to die, he 144 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: would not be able to care for them. Right, So 145 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: he always knew it was dangerous, and but he felt 146 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: this drive to do it. Um and there's all this 147 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: pressure on him, not not through Evangeline but through his 148 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: mother to quit, and there's sort of this ongoing conversation, 149 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: and as the audience, it's all the more painful when 150 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: he dies because the second that journal is introduced, you 151 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: know that that is going to come up at the 152 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: end and be really, really devastating. And it was. It 153 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: was it absolutely well like you know it's going to be, 154 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: and it was incredibly effective. Um. But he had once 155 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: their son was almost born, he had decided he was 156 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: going to leave, and that compounded the destructiveness. It was 157 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: just that's so close, as well as the fact that 158 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: there's one point when he thinks, if Evie ever asked 159 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: me to leave, I will, and she never did. Um, 160 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: which is a whole different other conversation, but that definitely 161 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: does loom over the whole story. Yes, And I do 162 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 1: want to say before we move on, I am someone, 163 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: as a lot of people might guess, I'm not into romance. 164 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: I generally avoid it, and when I do see it, 165 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: I'm usually UM. I don't want to say you like 166 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: rolling my eyes. That's not correct, but it's it's almost 167 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: like I just don't buy it. I just don't buy it. 168 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: But for this I thought, Oh, if that's what love 169 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: is like, then okay, I see it. That sounds amazing. 170 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: Oh and it had and so tragically. Um. Okay, so 171 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 1: next we're gonna talk about Dalton, but before we do that, 172 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: we're going to pause for a quick break for word 173 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor. So 174 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: Dalton Dalton storyline starts with his confusing but not so 175 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 1: uncommon situation situation ship with fran Well, well, you're educating 176 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: me all the time. Um. Yeah, I actually and we'll 177 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: talk about her more later. But I actually really liked Francis. Um. 178 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: And by the way, this is an adult novel, so yes, 179 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: there is sex. There's quite a bit of sex actually, 180 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: so putting that out there. Um. And when we're introduced 181 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: to Dalton, we see a lot of internal battles he's 182 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: dealing with of what love is and what it isn't. 183 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: I can relate to that as well. But we are 184 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: first introduced to him he's a classically trained pianist. During 185 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: Evangeline's narration and he's playing this song on piano to 186 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: soothe her, and she decides to kiss him, and this 187 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: facilitates a much needed conversation of the conflicting feelings that 188 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: they have for each other, because obviously this is a 189 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: very complicated, messy situation, and this also takes place around 190 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: eight months after Amon's death six months after Noah's birth. 191 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: But back to his situation, ship, Francis is the main 192 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: interest for Dalton through most of it. I guess it's 193 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: kind of happening concurrently, but through a lot of what 194 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: we read from Dalton's point of view, she is and 195 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: at one point he considered marrying Francis after she became pregnant, 196 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: but he changed his mind after she terminated the pregnancy, 197 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: not because she terminated the pregnancy, but he just seemingly 198 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: couldn't see couldn't imagine being married to her. She does 199 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: play a role in his life throughout the book, and 200 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: her last appearance in the story, we see his decision 201 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: to move in with Evie is the last draw for her. 202 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 1: She decides, all right, I'm done, and throughout this narrative 203 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: we see there is a role of competition and jealousy 204 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: between Evangeline and Francis. Um also some of the other 205 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: women in Dalton's life, which we will come back to 206 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: as well. Um He struggles too with his relationship with 207 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: his estranged father, who comes back into the picture and 208 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: is trying to reconnect with him, which would take us 209 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: back to learning how Dalton ended up being a brother 210 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: to Amon. Dalton's mother, who suffered severely from depression, passed 211 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: away after overdosing on pills. She took her own life 212 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: um and he was adopted by his mom's best friend, 213 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: Amon's mother. Later we learned that there are deeper roots 214 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: and ties with his adopted family and himself. But you 215 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: can get all of that and more if you read 216 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: the book, and you should. It was a good little twist. Yes, 217 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 1: So now that we've kind of come down the big characters, 218 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: we don't want to talk a little bit about the 219 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: minor characters because they do matter. Uh, So we'll talk 220 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 1: about the parents, Calvin and Loretta Royce, parents of Amon 221 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: and adopted parents of Dalton. Calvin is a retired cop 222 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: who was the influence in Aimon's life to become a 223 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: police officer as well. So you'll him being introduced as 224 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: someone who backs Aiman up when the mother is asking 225 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: him to quit, essentially, and they are painted as the 226 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: perfect parents, supportive and carrying to both of the boys. 227 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: Loretta worries for the safety of our police officers son, 228 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: and both she and Calvin make sure Dalton knows he's 229 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: their son, no matter how that happened. Um. And as 230 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: the story stretches, we find out they're not necessarily the 231 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: perfect parents, and secrets are revealed that take a slight 232 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: turn on how you view them. Yes, and then there's Penelope, 233 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: who is the biological mother to Dalton and best friend 234 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: to Aymon's mother Loretta. She was the one who taught 235 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: Dalton to play the piano, as well as influence him 236 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: into starting and owning his own bike shop, which he 237 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: would often go and fix up when his mother was 238 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: not able to care for him. And then we have 239 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: the other ladies, starting with Frances. Uh, yeah, we've been 240 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: talking about her. She is the sort of not girlfriend 241 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: to Dalton who later gives Dalton an ultimatum when he 242 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: decided to move in with e V. And I will say, 243 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: I feel like I am her to a lesser degree. 244 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: I'm sort of that wild card who is always doing something, 245 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: has always got something and cooking right, and they they're 246 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: very much I found their relationship interesting in that there's 247 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: clearly a connection there, but it's almost it's constantly antagonistic, 248 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: but not in like a like cruel way. It's just 249 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: sort of like they argue, and that's how that's their 250 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: love language, or that is a language. It kind of 251 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: spices things up for them. And I think he loves that. 252 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: If five sinus as he would describe her to be, yes. 253 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: And I also love how accepted it is that they're 254 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: on again and off again. So there's like one scene 255 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: they haven't been together for a while and then she 256 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: shows up at some family barbecue with all of them, 257 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: and I love how nobody really commented on it. They 258 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: just Okay, Francis is back in his life, okay, right, 259 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: Like she was significant enough that Amon was like, yeah, 260 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: she can come. I'm gonna propose to Evie you can 261 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: be out witnesses essentially yes, And frances was not happy 262 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: that went down because Dalpson did not tell her that 263 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: that was going to happen. I don't know if I 264 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: would be upset or not. Um, I think I'd be 265 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: annoyed again to be annoyed, yeah, I don't know if 266 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: I'd be as upset as she was. But then again, 267 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: I don't know that I've ever been in a relationship 268 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: like that one. So I guess I can't really say, 269 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: but I have. So I am the friend who i'm 270 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: if I'm close to you and you haven't immediately told me, 271 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: not immediately told me, but you know, don't tell me. 272 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: Soon after, I get a little like offended that I'm 273 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: I wasn't even what you thought you wouldn't You didn't 274 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: even think about me, did you want to tell me? 275 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: Didn't keep me in the loop. Yeah, which is very 276 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: selfish and stupid, but you know, I get it. It It 277 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: is what it is. So Actually, in the book, Dalton 278 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: has another female who is a part of his life. 279 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: Her name Miss Cassidy, which I think she's a pretty 280 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: good cool character. Um, she's this new girl that pops 281 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: up in Dalton's life, a sporty, tattooed bike girl who 282 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,479 Speaker 1: Dalton is currently seeing when Amon is killed. She pops 283 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 1: up after she gets flats on her bike. She stops 284 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: by the bike shop, he helps her, and then they 285 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,719 Speaker 1: kind of start doing this flirty back and forth, flirty 286 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: back and forth. Um, but it's super cool in their 287 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: interactions that she is very understanding, very open um even kill. 288 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: But she also doesn't hold back and letting him know 289 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: how she feels, which is also nice. And apparently she's 290 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: one of those cool girls that knew the mechanics of 291 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: the bike and wasn't just pretending as he had framed 292 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: it um, which is always fun to see as a trope. 293 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: But she was a fun little character who even at 294 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: the end, even when he was breaking up with her, 295 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: she she sat home home with cookies. That's so nice 296 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: she did. That's one of the things I really loved 297 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: about this book because I felt like all the female characters, 298 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: all the characters in general, but it's just rarer with 299 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: female characters were well thought out and you knew their 300 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: motivations and they were complex, and yeah, I generally liked 301 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: every one of them, which is pretty rare, alright. I 302 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 1: think that's what I love about like Southern Gothic level books, 303 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: is very character driven and I love when that happens, 304 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: that you invest in people. Um also just another minor 305 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: character who you don't hear from much. She's at the 306 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: beginning and then she became popping back at the end 307 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: as Elizabeth Amon's ex and last girlfriend before he met Evie. 308 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: She is somewhat minor, but she does pop back up 309 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: at one point to let even know that she was bisexual, 310 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: which was a fun little interaction. It was supposed to 311 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: be him coming away from painting a room looking a mess, 312 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: running into her and then we like, I'm married and 313 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: I'm happy a baby. She reponses sexual, I'm with a woman, 314 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: I'm bisexual. He's like, and his response is yeah, that 315 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: makes sense it yeah um. But then she popps back 316 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,719 Speaker 1: up again at his funeral where she actually does like 317 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: squeezes Evie's hand. Is in camaraderie essentially, and in mourning 318 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 1: with her the loss of Amon and how great he 319 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: was right. So those are a cast of characters overall. 320 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: Story Wise, we see the main the three main characters, Evangeline, Aiman, 321 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 1: and Dalton, moving through their lives and sharing stories in 322 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: first person narrative. It switches every chapter to a different 323 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: point of view, and the story weaves in and out 324 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: throughout these different timelines to explain how they got to 325 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: where they are and how they learned to cope or 326 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: how they processed or didn't or have it yet um. 327 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: Dalton becomes the strength and caretaker for Evangelina and Noah, 328 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: which he promised to do when Aiman confided in him 329 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,479 Speaker 1: about getting married to Evangeline as well as when he 330 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: tells Auton about her being pregnant. They call it the pact, right, 331 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: they have a pact that they would care for the 332 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: other person's loved one. Yes. Yes, So that's pretty much 333 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: the plot and characters nupsis. But we did want to 334 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: talk about some themes. But first we're going to pause 335 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: for one more kick for word from our sponsor and 336 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you sponsor. So themes, there are a 337 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 1: lot of themes that we could tackle going on throughout 338 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: this whole thing, and we wanted to touch on some 339 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: of the main ones, starting with probably the biggest one, 340 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: which is tragedy and grief. So, I mean, the main 341 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: catalyst of the book is the death of Amon. It's 342 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: it's the whole thing is riddled with this theme of 343 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: grief and dealing with it, and it's so realistic. When 344 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: Evy is notified of aim and shooting, it's heart wrenching, um, 345 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: but more so the you also have the protective response 346 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: from Dalton, who not only helps her throughout um, he's 347 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: also struggling, but he's trying really hard to be strong 348 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: for her and is actually depending on Cassidy to kind 349 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: of let out what he's going through, which is interesting 350 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: because when we talked about that forever ago in our 351 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: grief episode, that is the theory of the best way 352 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 1: to share grief is you have the person at the 353 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 1: center and you focus on them, and then that group 354 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: that's focusing on that person at the center then branches 355 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: out to the outer circle for people to help them 356 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: with their grief. So I thought that was really interesting. 357 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: Evangeline even talks about the marking of Aman's death by 358 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: the age of their newborn baby boy. I think she 359 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: said something like a time bomb or there's a very 360 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: pretty sad description of it. We also see the grief 361 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: as experienced by Amon's partner from the police force, Brian, 362 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: who continues to check up on Evy and her family. 363 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: And again, the very first line of the book is 364 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: about Amen's death, so it hangs over the entire thing 365 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: like a specter. And another theme that obviously as fairly 366 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: big as family and parenthood. There's a couple of examples 367 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 1: of different types of bonds and even examples of failures 368 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: in relationships. We see the adoptive relationship between Dalton and 369 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: the Royces, the relationship between Aim and him becoming a parent, 370 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: and then the realization of Dalton's own biological father and 371 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: who that is. And I did love seeing these relationships 372 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: when we discussed biological versus relational within the book, the 373 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: fact that the family bond is very real even though 374 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: it may not be biological. Also, Lisa shows the beautiful 375 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 1: relationship between brothers for both Amon and Dalton, as well 376 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: as Amon's father and his brother who they visit every 377 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: year to fish with him. And I think that's really 378 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: beautiful to see, uh, open bonds that are so loving 379 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: and gentle with each other. Yeah. And I my um 380 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: dad used to do this very same thing of like 381 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: him and his brothers and uncles would all go on 382 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: a dude trip fishing, uh. And I loved hearing their 383 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: high jinks when they got back, because inevitably they weren't 384 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: very good. And I know there was one story where 385 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: my uncle he had his his leg on the boat 386 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: and the other on the land, and of course the 387 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: boat starts to drift away and his parts about down 388 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: and he wasn't wearing any underwear. And I, as an 389 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 1: eight year old, I laughed and laughed and laughed. That's 390 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: a good story though. Yes, Oh, it's excellent. I always 391 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: had excellent stories. We also see the author talk about 392 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: surrogate parenthood, and one reader, Gabriella, stated, in addition to 393 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: her insular depictions of love and laws across, Smith is 394 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 1: also making a larger point about fictive kinship and surrogate parenthood, 395 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: both of which have sustained many Black communities. Like I 396 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: said in my review of An American Marriage, we don't 397 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: see enough of these situations celebrated in literature, though it's 398 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: so so common and important for many people's upbringings. I'll 399 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: leave y'all with Dalton's heartbreaking conversation on page ninety, of 400 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: which i'll just quote a bit. I grew up with 401 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 1: a man who wasn't my biological dad, but he'd do 402 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: anything for me. So there are also these guys out 403 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: here doubling up, pulling twice their load without complaining, right. 404 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: And I think it's also very important that we know 405 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: that Dalton becomes the s as well. Yeah, and it 406 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: is clearly beautiful transition, heartbreaking yes both yes. Uh. And 407 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: then of course we couldn't go I without talking about 408 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: the theme of love. There's many complicated conversations of love 409 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: throughout the novel the love between Evie and Aim and 410 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: Evie and Dalton and Dalton and Ahman and the familial 411 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: love within the voices. And we do have the triangle, 412 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: as one review states, a soft love triangle where no 413 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 1: one is really the bad guy, but sure as damn complicated. Uh. 414 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: It developed into a tricky romance with a lot of 415 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: question of how does this work? But Crossmith instant nicely 416 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: where everything seems to have a happy ending as well 417 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 1: as even though there's just like this uncomfortable nous when 418 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: you're reading it. When I was reading it, I was like, oh, God, 419 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: was happening? Okay? But u at the same time, it's 420 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: comforting to know that they're okay. Yeah, And it did 421 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 1: make me really appreciate because, I mean, grief is so 422 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: complicated and as we've spoken about, you you can't control 423 00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: what your body is doing, and like physically, emotionally it's 424 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: just all over the place. And then to have that 425 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: all tangled up too with love, which is another thing 426 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: you most of the time cannot control, and get it 427 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: all mixed up, and then you have the added layer 428 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: of they both loved this person that died. That was 429 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: sort of at the heart of bringing them together. So yeah, 430 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: it's just super messy and complicated but really honest. And 431 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: then another theme that I love that is pretty common 432 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: throughout most of cross Smith's work is this current of 433 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: music and art because it's the whole book has so 434 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: many musical references, including Dalton's playing piano and using music 435 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: to help calm or provide relief during hard times. Also 436 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 1: peppered throughout, we see shoutouts to yacht rock and just 437 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: good old classics, from Fleetwood Mac to boch for evis 438 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 1: ballet dancing background. Even in at the beginning we see 439 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: a reference to the term fugue, which has a three 440 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 1: full definition, one referring to flight or to chase, um 441 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: to a musical definition, which is a contrapuntal composition in 442 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: which a short melody or phrase is introduced by one 443 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: part and successively taken up by others and developed by 444 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 1: interweaving the parts. And three a state or period of 445 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: loss of awareness of one's identity of self. So yeah, 446 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 1: you can see all of those things play into this book. 447 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: And I also wanna like touch on Evangeline. She was 448 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: a dancer, so there's this art that she is making. 449 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: And then also because I had to mention it. There's 450 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: multiple Star Wars references, and I appreciated that. So when 451 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: we were talking about doing the interview, I did seeing 452 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: the outline. That's one of the first things that she 453 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: had Star Wars references. I know, I was so excited 454 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: and then I would say, Eddie, you gotta tem it, 455 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 1: you gotta tem it down. There's like three of them 456 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: in there. We can't spend three. But yeah, back to 457 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: the music, and also with those words, we have the 458 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 1: term finale as well as decapo literally meaning from the beginning, 459 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: so this begins the stories and even ending Imman's narrative 460 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: with the term say sarah, which means in musical terms, 461 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: a break in conversation a lot of verse or song, 462 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: but not for long, but also can be a noun 463 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: which means in an interruption or break in ending the 464 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 1: book with decapo and the announcement of Evis and Dalton's 465 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: baby girl, Marabelle Dove Berkeley Royce and I've never heard 466 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: that word before, but it is and this is throughout 467 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: the book, like she definitely makes appointed moments of it 468 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: just being in there to let you know what's happening. Yes, uh. 469 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: And another theme that We've sort of touched on a 470 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: little bit, but we wanted to return to is face. 471 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: So Cross Smiths can interviews of feeling connected to faith 472 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: and being Christian not only because of her past or father, 473 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: but because of her strong beliefs and faith. She doesn't 474 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: really speak too much on the idea and notion of 475 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: women in virginity, but it is briefly mentioned as Evangeline 476 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: Uh talks about wanting to wait for marriage before having sex. 477 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: She admits this during a game of strip poker when 478 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: they're all slightly drunk, which I thought was funny. Um, 479 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: and even putting the church within the context of e 480 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: and Amen's meeting, and actually Aimen Uh he was debating 481 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: on whether or not to go ask her out, and 482 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: he said, God, give me a sign. If it's not 483 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: raining and it's a beautiful day, then I'm going to 484 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: go talk to her. And it was a beautiful day, 485 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: and he went to talk to her. Um. And then 486 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: there are mentioned and of prayers throughout, and she also 487 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: speaks to the fallibility of men and forgiveness within relationships. 488 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: When you're talking about Calvin's infidelity, the boys sexual tryst, 489 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: it's not explod slily talked about or even focused on. UM. 490 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: But the theme is there, and especially if you're looking 491 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: for it, because for example, when I think Dalton, it's 492 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: a conversation between Dalton and Amon. Maybe I misremember it 493 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: was a conversation he had with somebody where they were 494 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: asking him why do you have to be a police officer? 495 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: And Amon's reasoning to me sounded almost religious, with somebody's 496 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: got to do this good, somebody's got to do it. Uh, 497 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: there's a responsibility, I'll do it. Yeah. I remember him 498 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: talking about that. I think of that was with his mom, 499 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: a's to why you should and he even talks about 500 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: going on a ride along with his dad and seeing 501 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: the good that was being done as well. UM. So 502 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: there you go. That is a big small portion, a 503 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: big small portion epic of word words the book UM. Overall, 504 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: even though this is not necessarily a feminist focused book, 505 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: we do want to celebrate this being such a successful 506 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: book that chose to look at loss and greet and 507 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: tragedy in such a poetic fashion, her conversations within and 508 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: bringing music as a part of it, celebrating family as 509 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: different as it may look from the outside, what we 510 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: may say is normal and is not normal. And like 511 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: I said before, I have been a fan of Lisa's 512 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: for a while. I've been following her in her husband 513 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: for years when they started the Whiskey Paper, online literary 514 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: and the magazine UM, and I loved it because it 515 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: was very focused on the South, but the strength of 516 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: the South as well, and I loved um that look. 517 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: And I won't lie, I'm a huge fan of Southern literature. 518 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: My favorite style would be Southern Gothic, I e. Carson 519 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: mccolor's Harperly and now Jasmine Ward. So seeing a take 520 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: on Southern life is always refreshing and sometimes really difficult 521 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: for women to find success in. So we wanted to 522 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: be able to celebrate when it's done well. And I 523 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: think it's a whole episode where we talk about women 524 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: authorships and what type of genre they can write in 525 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: or what they're accepted into anyway. But yeah, so it's 526 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: a really good book and I was really excited to 527 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: be able to talk about it and read it and 528 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: uh share with y'all a good book. Yeah, yeah, I 529 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: really enjoyed it and I'm glad you suggested it and UM, 530 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: I would love to get suggestions from you listeners. As 531 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: to what book we should do next for a book club. 532 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: Some of you have sent in Untamed, and then there's 533 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: another one. A couple of people have sent in that's 534 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: about sex. Uh, come as you are. So those are 535 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: those are in the docket. I'm excited to read both 536 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: of those. But if you have any other suggestions, or 537 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: if you want to vote on one of those, please 538 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: email us. Our email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at 539 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: i heeart media dot com. You can find us on 540 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram at Stuff 541 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to our superproducer 542 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've 543 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: Never Told You the protection of I Heart Radio. For 544 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio up 545 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 546 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: H