Speaker 1: A warning.
Speaker 2: This episode contains depictions of violence and conversations about suicide
Speaker 2: that may be disturbing and triggering for some listeners. If
Speaker 2: you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please fast forward to
Speaker 2: the end of this episode to find out where help
Speaker 2: is available. It's been almost a year since Anastasia Whitbulsfuchen
Speaker 2: was murdered and her boyfriend, Justin Bruton took his own life.
Speaker 2: Investigators are no closer to making an arrest.
Speaker 3: Were you present when Anastasia was killed? Now do you
Speaker 3: know if Justin Brutin killed Anastasian?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 5: I doubt.
Speaker 2: Or are they actually closer than they've ever been before?
Speaker 1: I'm Leah Rothman.
Speaker 2: This is The Real Killer, Episode four. Seriously, Honestly, before
Speaker 2: we move forward in the investigation, we need to go
Speaker 2: back a bit.
Speaker 1: First.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about Tara McDowell, Abraham Nisley's ex girlfriend. Remember
Speaker 2: the night of October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven. Supposedly, Justin,
Speaker 2: Byron and Kelly went to Abraham's to pick up some
Speaker 2: stuff he had of Tara's, then took Kelly home. Then
Speaker 2: Byron and Justin went to Tara's to drop the stuff off.
Speaker 2: For months, Sergeant Gary Kilgore had been trying to interview Tara.
Speaker 2: He was unsuccessful until February third of nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 2: I don't have the audio from her interview, only the transcript,
Speaker 2: so from that I will share some of what she said.
Speaker 2: Tara tells Kilgore that she was very good friends with
Speaker 2: Anastasia and Justin, but she would consider herself Anastasia's confidante.
Speaker 2: Tara says, in regard to the night of October twenty second,
Speaker 2: she remembers Justin and Byron telling her that they were
Speaker 2: going to Abraham's place after hers, not that they had
Speaker 2: already been there. If you remember, that's a different order
Speaker 2: of events than what Kelly and Byron originally said. Tara
Speaker 2: says she doesn't want to make it sound like she
Speaker 2: suspected either Byron or Justin of Anastasia's murder, but once
Speaker 2: she heard her friend had been killed, she found it
Speaker 2: strange that neither of them mentioned having been with Kelly
Speaker 2: or Anastasia that night. Tara says, when Anastasia got into
Speaker 2: her depressions about Justin, she could be quote very aggravating.
Speaker 2: Anastasia would call quote an unbelievable number of times a day.
Speaker 2: Tara share is that one time Byron recorded an outgoing
Speaker 2: message on his pager that was something like, if this
Speaker 2: is Anastasia, don't bother leaving your number or leaving a message,
Speaker 2: because nobody's going to call you back. Nobody wants to
Speaker 2: talk to you. Tara tells Kilgore that one day, not
Speaker 2: long after Anastasia died, she stopped at the Amaico station
Speaker 2: to ask where Lincoln Cemetery was. She and some friends
Speaker 2: wanted to see the spot where Anastasia had died. There
Speaker 2: at the Amaico station, she spoke with a man who
Speaker 2: said he had already talked with police about seeing Anastasia
Speaker 2: get out of the car that night at the stoplight.
Speaker 2: Sounds like Tara's describing Don Rand, the night mechanic at
Speaker 2: the Amaico station. So the man told Tara he noticed
Speaker 2: Anastasia was walking unusually quick, and she seemed agitated, upset,
Speaker 2: and angry. This is not what Don Rand originally told
Speaker 2: police back then. When he was asked if Anastasia looked upset,
Speaker 2: he said he couldn't tell. According to Tara, this man
Speaker 2: said he watched Anniston Deja walk right past him go
Speaker 2: across the street and up the hill that leads to
Speaker 2: Lincoln's Cemetery, But Tara says he didn't see Anastasia go
Speaker 2: into Lincoln, only up the hill, and he didn't say
Speaker 2: anything about seeing a car following her. All of this
Speaker 2: is new information to kill Gore. Just so you know,
Speaker 2: back in nineteen ninety seven off Truman, there was a
Speaker 2: road to the left that led to Lincoln Cemetery. Today
Speaker 2: that entrance is closed to this man at the Amico station,
Speaker 2: who very well may have been don rand see Anastasia
Speaker 2: walk up the road that led to Lincoln Cemetery where
Speaker 2: she was eventually killed, and if so, why didn't he
Speaker 2: tell this too investigators. In regard to Anastasia's family, Tara
Speaker 2: says that the relationship with her stepmom Diane wasn't great,
Speaker 2: and therefore the one with her dad wasn't either. Tara
Speaker 2: tells kil Gore she quote had the impression from Anastasia
Speaker 2: quite a few times that there had been some very
Speaker 2: distinctive abuse, which Tara believed had happened sometime in the past,
Speaker 2: and Tara doesn't know if the alleged abuse was emotional
Speaker 2: or physical. She added, quote, I don't know if it
Speaker 2: was her father. I don't know if it was her stepfather.
Speaker 2: Tera says, having been an abused child herself, she believed
Speaker 2: Anastasia obviously lived through something when she was younger. The
Speaker 2: conversation eventually turns to Anastasia's clothes. Ta Anastasia would borrow
Speaker 2: her sister Fran's clothes a lot and friend was kind
Speaker 2: of a hippie, she says. Anastasia was big on jeans
Speaker 2: and real simple shirts black. She dressed simply, almost boyishly.
Speaker 2: Tera says, Anastasia wore Doc Martins mostly. She had sandals Birkenstocks,
Speaker 2: but Tara never saw her wear them, and Tara never
Speaker 2: saw Anastasia carry a purse.
Speaker 1: Only a'll wallet.
Speaker 2: Kil Gore asks Tara if Justin or Byron owned a firearm.
Speaker 2: Tara says Justin said at one point he had a gun,
Speaker 2: but he got rid of it a couple of months before,
Speaker 2: and to the best of her knowledge, Byron did not
Speaker 2: own a firearm. However, she says his father may have
Speaker 2: owned at least one gun. Then she says, quote, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't know. Tara also says if Justin had anything to
Speaker 2: do with Anastasia's death, Byron definitely knew about it. So
Speaker 2: Tara gives some interesting and some conflicting information. The question
Speaker 2: is will any of it help in the investigation. The
Speaker 2: other thing that happens in nineteen ninety eight is that
Speaker 2: things get a little sticky for Sergeant Kilgore because Bob
Speaker 2: writes several complaints about him to his bosses, and a
Speaker 2: formal complaint is filed about kil Gore for allegedly disclosing
Speaker 2: an underage witness's name, which resulted in her receiving threats
Speaker 2: she would be raped, killed, and her family's house burned down.
Speaker 2: Between late summer of nineteen ninety eight and the summer
Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety nine, the investigation remains in full swing.
Speaker 2: Bob continues emailing kil Gore. Justin's dad hires a psychic.
Speaker 2: There's talk of a Lincoln Prep curse. That's where Anastasia
Speaker 2: and Byron both went to school. More people are interviewed,
Speaker 2: and even a Ouiji board is consulted. Jumping forward to
Speaker 2: June twenty fourth, nineteen ninety nine, Bob meets with Kilgore
Speaker 2: at the Sheriff's department. Here's some of their recorded conversation.
Speaker 4: God Whitwell speaking, I understand that you have some additional
Speaker 4: new information.
Speaker 6: That's correct.
Speaker 4: As you know in the past that I've given you
Speaker 4: a list of vehicles that I've seen in the area.
Speaker 2: You might remember from our last episode. Bob is very
Speaker 2: fixated on the cars. He says he saw the night
Speaker 2: Anastasia was murdered.
Speaker 4: Now this is still on the lack of a better word,
Speaker 4: the caravan coming down Truman Road as you were standing
Speaker 4: at the interest of the Mount Washington's cemetery.
Speaker 6: Grant is correct, and as you know, there's already forty
Speaker 6: cars on the list.
Speaker 2: In the last several months, the list of cars has
Speaker 2: grown from thirty one to forty. Bob says he knows
Speaker 2: with every fiber of his being, the drivers of these
Speaker 2: cars have at the very least some knowledge of what
Speaker 2: happened to Anastasia and the night she was killed.
Speaker 6: And I wanted you to know that I'm so certain about.
Speaker 4: That, I'm willing to swear, testify, and take live detector tests,
Speaker 4: take hypnosis whatever to confirm that for you, because if
Speaker 4: you're not investigating that, you're not doing a job.
Speaker 7: Just keep it to the information that you're trying to
Speaker 7: provide me.
Speaker 6: Please, Yes, I also had occasion to speak to a
Speaker 6: friend of.
Speaker 4: Pages and who is now a very close friend of
Speaker 4: Tara McDowell.
Speaker 6: And she says that she heard.
Speaker 4: Byron talking about the events and chronology of the evening, and.
Speaker 6: The story she tells me is that.
Speaker 4: Byron, Anastasia, Justin, and Kelly were on Blue Ridge that
Speaker 4: evening in front of the cemetery where.
Speaker 6: She was found.
Speaker 7: Who is this individual Allie?
Speaker 8: I don't remember her name.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, it's been months. I can get it for you.
Speaker 7: So I've never heard the name of Allie.
Speaker 4: She probably would not be willing to come forward and
Speaker 4: say these things, but maybe she will.
Speaker 7: Anything else. Mister wigbolsphegan.
Speaker 6: Out at this time. I reserve the possibility to come
Speaker 6: in again.
Speaker 4: I certainly feel that this has been a productive meeting
Speaker 4: that I've been able to share with you what's been
Speaker 4: on my mind for several months.
Speaker 2: About three weeks later, on July fifteenth, nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 2: Bob calls Kilgore. He wants to pass on Ali's last name,
Speaker 2: but because she was under age at the time, we're
Speaker 2: not going to discuss her last.
Speaker 5: Name is and she's approximately sixteen years old.
Speaker 2: Bob says he recorded an interview with Ali in late
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight at the coffee shop where Page worked.
Speaker 2: During that conversation, Ali told Bob. Not long after Anastasia's murder,
Speaker 2: Ali and Byron had a conversation about it.
Speaker 9: Okay, then, if I'm understanding you correctly, Byron Case told
Speaker 9: Ali and some of those details again.
Speaker 5: Well, specifically that they Anastasia, Justin, Kelly and Byron were
Speaker 5: traveling in a vehicle on Blue Ridge Boulevard, that they
Speaker 5: stopped in front of the cemetery, and that that is
Speaker 5: where the argument took place. And that's where Anastasia get
Speaker 5: out of.
Speaker 8: The car at the Lincoln entrance, well on Blue right.
Speaker 9: Okay, And do you know why Byron would tell Ali this?
Speaker 8: Or does Ali? Did Ali say why?
Speaker 5: Allie said that he was just very talkative that she
Speaker 5: was there. That No, I don't specifically recall.
Speaker 8: Let me ask you this question, who do you think
Speaker 8: killed Anastasia.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 8: Do you think Byron did?
Speaker 5: I think there were many individual presents and near the
Speaker 5: name at the time. I don't know who pulled the trigger.
Speaker 5: I don't think.
Speaker 8: That person is alive today. But maybe do you think
Speaker 8: Justin did it?
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 9: I thought you just said you don't think that person
Speaker 9: is alive today.
Speaker 5: Well, then it might very well have been.
Speaker 8: Justin, So I didn't, you know, I don't want to
Speaker 8: make sure I didn't misunderstand.
Speaker 5: I certainly haven't heard anyone anyone mentioned his name, which
Speaker 5: it would be a big clue, and to me personally,
Speaker 5: that would mean that more than likely.
Speaker 6: He did not.
Speaker 7: Trigger.
Speaker 5: Justin Justin did not pull the trigger.
Speaker 9: But that's only if somebody else came up and said, well.
Speaker 5: At this point, I don't know why anyone would protect him.
Speaker 8: Okay, do you honestly think that Justin did it?
Speaker 6: Though?
Speaker 8: No, I'm asking what you think.
Speaker 5: I do not think Justin did it, Okay, I don't
Speaker 5: think whoever did it but admit it?
Speaker 8: Okay?
Speaker 9: But you think it's within this this group that with Danastasian,
Speaker 9: Byron and Kelly Moffatt.
Speaker 8: And Justin within the group, they were all present when
Speaker 8: this happened. Is this what you believe.
Speaker 5: Someone who drove their vehicle on the road that evening
Speaker 5: that I witnessed pull the trigger.
Speaker 9: But you'd think then, though, that Byron and Justin and
Speaker 9: everybody was there. I'm trying to get an understanding of
Speaker 9: what you're thinking.
Speaker 5: What I'm thinking is that if they were not immediately
Speaker 5: within I sh uh of the scene, they certainly know
Speaker 5: what happened. I'm I'm feeling that Justin knew it too,
Speaker 5: that he wanted to fess up and tell the truth,
Speaker 5: and that someone decided that would not be a good idea,
Speaker 5: and in order to keep him quiet, they shot him.
Speaker 5: Why no one's coming forward with this information because they
Speaker 5: know that who's ever responsible is not beyond keeping someone
Speaker 5: else quiet, even if that means killing them.
Speaker 2: I'm despite Bob's speculation, Justin's official cause of death has
Speaker 2: always been suicide.
Speaker 9: Okay, you've got to You've got a reason then, why
Speaker 9: Justin was killed.
Speaker 8: Well, the reason for why Anastasia was killed.
Speaker 5: Well, the story that we here repeated that you would
Speaker 5: not like to have repeated, that's been discounted for some reason.
Speaker 5: Seems to be that there was a game being played
Speaker 5: with a gun and that someone unbeknownst to the person
Speaker 5: holding the gun, put a bullet in the gun and
Speaker 5: that is how she died.
Speaker 9: Okay, And this was taking place at Lincoln Cemetery or
Speaker 9: nearby or.
Speaker 8: Nearby, So then that would mean that the body was moved.
Speaker 5: Well, it might mean that I don't think that it
Speaker 5: was moved.
Speaker 9: But okay, if it wasn't moved, and it would had
Speaker 9: have happened at Lincoln Cemetery and not just nearby, well,
Speaker 9: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I didn't get to benefit by the crime scenean investigation,
Speaker 5: but it happened with a number.
Speaker 8: Of people nearby.
Speaker 9: But you believe then it's an argument based on what
Speaker 9: Ali says and the argument between Justin and the stage.
Speaker 9: It took place on Blue Ridge near the entrance to
Speaker 9: Lincoln Cemetery.
Speaker 5: I hear the prevalence of an argument taking place. I
Speaker 5: personally don't believe it. I think it's just a convenient one.
Speaker 7: Okay.
Speaker 9: And in any event, and in order to stop and
Speaker 9: play a game, they must have resolved their differences at
Speaker 9: least for a moment, would you think.
Speaker 5: Actually, I don't know under what circumstances a gun would
Speaker 5: have been introduced to the scene. Well, I think Byron's
Speaker 5: fearing for his life, and that's why he's not telling
Speaker 5: the story. So that's probably why he's not the trigger person,
Speaker 5: because in the story that we hear, he's only the
Speaker 5: person that puts the bullets in the gun.
Speaker 8: And the trigger person is I don't know.
Speaker 2: The conversation then turns to Anastatia's close and whether or
Speaker 2: not she ever made it home. Remember, Bob believes she
Speaker 2: did because he said he found her purse, her blue jeans,
Speaker 2: and the washing machine and her underwear soaking in the sink.
Speaker 5: I want to know did they come to my house
Speaker 5: sometime that evening? I mean, after all, I find that
Speaker 5: I have several descriptions of her wearing blue jeans, and
Speaker 5: she's not wearing blue jeans that night. I have a
Speaker 5: billfold at home. Well, if the billfold is at home,
Speaker 5: how does.
Speaker 8: It get to my house?
Speaker 5: How is it that she's not wearing the same clothes
Speaker 5: that four people describe her.
Speaker 8: At Did your a wife remember what she was wearing?
Speaker 5: Well, my wife thought that she was wearing blue jeans,
Speaker 5: but she's.
Speaker 9: She was the last one to actually see her out
Speaker 9: in your family right.
Speaker 5: And also, mister I believe his name was la Page,
Speaker 5: who gave a story that he was driving test driving
Speaker 5: a car and saw her in the cemetery that evening,
Speaker 5: said that she was wearing blue jeans.
Speaker 2: So Bob brings up mister Lapage, George Lapage and his
Speaker 2: wife actually called sergeant Kilgore three days after Anastasia's body
Speaker 2: was found to offer some information. At that time, mister
Speaker 2: Lapage told Kilgore that on October twenty second, while he
Speaker 2: and his wife were test driving a car in Mount
Speaker 2: Washington Cemetery. Remember that's the cemetery Anastasia was dropped off
Speaker 2: At around four point thirty, the Lapages saw a white
Speaker 2: female sitting on the steps of the Nelson mausoleum. Mister
Speaker 2: Lapage said that the woman approached the car and asked
Speaker 2: what time it was. It was around five point thirty
Speaker 2: five forty five. The female then told them she was
Speaker 2: waiting for her boyfriend to arrive. Missus Lapage believed the
Speaker 2: female seemed quote disoriented. In Kilgore's report, the old only
Speaker 2: clothing item the Lapages described the female wearing was a
Speaker 2: quote brown Swede type jacket, no mention of jeans or shoes. Now,
Speaker 2: did Bob talk to the Lapages on his own and
Speaker 2: get more information, like Anastasia was wearing blue jeans? If
Speaker 2: he did, I don't have any documentation about that. Next,
Speaker 2: Bob brings up Glenn Calliver, the caretaker at Mount Washington Cemetery.
Speaker 5: Mister Cliver was describing her attire, wearing a corduroy coat
Speaker 5: and blue jeans, and suddenly she's not wearing the same clothing.
Speaker 2: Remember, mister Cliver saw Anastasia twice that night, once around
Speaker 2: five pm and later around seven pm when he ushered
Speaker 2: her Justin, Byron and Kelly out of the cemetery because
Speaker 2: it was after hours. Two investigators Glenn Cliver never described
Speaker 2: Anastasia wearing anything other than a quote dark coat. Bob
Speaker 2: spoke with mister Cliver the morning of the twenty third
Speaker 2: when he was out looking for Anastasia, and he says
Speaker 2: he talked to him again some time after. Is that
Speaker 2: when mister Cliver might have told Bob he saw Anastasia
Speaker 2: in blue jeans. Anyway, Kilgore and Bob talk a bit
Speaker 2: longer than kil Gore wraps it up. By the way,
Speaker 2: I don't have any documentation that says Kilgore ever made
Speaker 2: contact with Ali to check out her story, or that
Speaker 2: he circled back to Glenn Calliver or the Lapages to
Speaker 2: see what they saw Anastasia wearing that night. But for
Speaker 2: almost a year, Sergeant Kilgore has been wanting, waiting to
Speaker 2: talk to one person in particular. He's finally going to
Speaker 2: get his chance.
Speaker 7: He just got an ugly Byron Chase.
Speaker 2: On July twenty ninth, nineteen ninety nine, about twenty one
Speaker 2: months after Anastasia was murdered. Byron case is that the
Speaker 2: Jackson County Sheriff's Department to speak with Sergeant Kilgore. Byron
Speaker 2: now has been granted limited immunity, which means, in exchange
Speaker 2: for giving a truthful statement regarding the homicide of Anastasia,
Speaker 2: the death of Justin, and the events of October twenty second,
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven, the state agrees that his statement will
Speaker 2: not be used against him. However, if he knowingly provides
Speaker 2: false information to the police, his statement could be used
Speaker 2: against him in a prosecution for providing false information or
Speaker 2: obstructing justice. It seems for this interview Byron is there alone.
Speaker 2: There's no mention in Kilgore's report that he had an
Speaker 2: attorney present.
Speaker 7: How long have you known? Just a year? Maybeel a
Speaker 7: little bit more?
Speaker 2: Aren't By discussing Byron's relationship with Justin and Anastasia.
Speaker 4: Were pretty good friends, Oh yeah, absolutely, do you live?
Speaker 4: I think yeah, for a while we well after he
Speaker 4: and Anastasia met, I moved In. I lived with them
Speaker 4: for about three months, I guess with Annastasia also, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: all three of us, didn't you at one point in
Speaker 4: time dated Anastasia. No, she was a friend of mine
Speaker 4: from I think we met in the eighth grade. Yeah,
Speaker 4: we met in the eighth grade, and we didn't get
Speaker 4: along initially, but when we went to high school together we.
Speaker 7: Got pretty close. So, but you had a d It
Speaker 7: was only strictly patronic, but you knew her quite well.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean, you know, we were really close friends.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, we cried on each other's shoulders
Speaker 4: quite a bit, you know, I mean it was just,
Speaker 4: you know, we could pretty much share anything, and you
Speaker 4: and justinretty much the same way. I mean, Justin was
Speaker 4: I don't know, Justin had a tendency to be kind
Speaker 4: of closed off.
Speaker 7: So I mean, you know, when I did get something
Speaker 7: out of him.
Speaker 4: It was usually after it had been bothering him for
Speaker 4: a long time, so he wasn't really all that open.
Speaker 4: But you know, he was very honest at least, and
Speaker 4: you know that's something that I really respect. I've heard
Speaker 4: and been told that you and Justin a little bit
Speaker 4: more than just than the time I.
Speaker 7: Knew that was going to come up.
Speaker 4: I heard that rumor, and I don't remember who eckered
Speaker 4: it from. But no, Justin and I were always very
Speaker 4: very good.
Speaker 7: Friends, and it was never.
Speaker 4: Anything beyond that, the fact that we hung out together
Speaker 4: all the time. And I guess some people were thinking
Speaker 4: that Justin might have been gay at the coffee shop.
Speaker 7: They you know, they probably wondered.
Speaker 4: I don't. I never heard any talk about it, but
Speaker 4: you know, I would probably have assumed the same thing
Speaker 4: if I had been an outsider looking in on something
Speaker 4: like that.
Speaker 7: But you buy noo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kilgore goes back to asking about Anastasia.
Speaker 7: You did you always remain with her.
Speaker 4: There were a couple of points when we were well,
Speaker 4: there are a couple of points when we were living
Speaker 4: together when I would kind of get annoyed by the
Speaker 4: fact that her and Justin would fight all the time.
Speaker 4: And it was mostly because from my perspective, it was
Speaker 4: mostly because she wasn't really happy with the way that
Speaker 4: Justin treated her. You know, he wasn't giving her enough
Speaker 4: attention or you know, or something like that.
Speaker 7: So I mean it got a little annoying, and you know,
Speaker 7: I would go talk to her, and you know try
Speaker 7: and I don't media.
Speaker 4: Eighth, so I mean it was never, you know, it
Speaker 4: was never to the point that I disliked her. Bring
Speaker 4: out of the document that was found in Justin's computer.
Speaker 7: Read that at all.
Speaker 2: We talked about this document in episode three. Although there's
Speaker 2: no name on it, it seems to have been written
Speaker 2: by Anastasia, with the following excerpts being potentially the most
Speaker 2: telling quote. I don't care what Byron thinks of me.
Speaker 2: I never cared what anyone thought of me until I
Speaker 2: loved you. Then I only cared what you thought of me.
Speaker 2: Byron can go fuck himself for all I care. The
Speaker 2: only person's opinion I care about is yours, So fuck me.
Speaker 2: You and Byron deserve each other because that seems to
Speaker 2: be the one you want, someone who shares your brain
Speaker 2: and your thinking, and so fuck me.
Speaker 7: That sounds the kind of stature meaning in there. That
Speaker 7: was weird. I'd never seen that before. Sounds like she's
Speaker 7: pretty angry on that. Yeah, sounds like she's pretty.
Speaker 8: Angry in you.
Speaker 7: And I'm trying to.
Speaker 8: Think what that was.
Speaker 7: All that was about. According to the.
Speaker 4: Kid peaks in the computer on that, it's a letter
Speaker 4: was a creator and his document was created on October twenty,
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety seven. Keep in mind the last time you
Speaker 4: saw her was October twenty second.
Speaker 7: This was well, it was. It was last saved on
Speaker 7: October twenty first. I didn't see ninety as long and
Speaker 7: was taken off.
Speaker 4: But jeff right, I'm trying to think of when she
Speaker 4: would have justin didn't have email or anything, so I'm
Speaker 4: trying to think of when she would have been at
Speaker 4: his place to write that.
Speaker 7: I'm going to assume that his computer will be correct.
Speaker 7: I don't remember. I'm pretty sure it did. Why would
Speaker 7: she be so angry as you were you having problems
Speaker 7: with Anastasia. No, but when she got mad, she got
Speaker 7: mad at everybody.
Speaker 2: The conversation then turns to clothes and what everyone had
Speaker 2: on the night of October twenty seconds.
Speaker 7: Do you think you remember what she was wearing?
Speaker 4: I think, if I remember correctly, that she had on jeans,
Speaker 4: and it's because she usually wore jeans, and I don't remember.
Speaker 7: Honestly, don't remember.
Speaker 4: It may have been a T shirt, it may have
Speaker 4: been a long sleeve shirt. I'm pretty sure it was gray,
Speaker 4: though I seen to remember her having like a gray
Speaker 4: T shirt style thing with like a V neck or something.
Speaker 4: But I don't remember coat jacket. I don't even remember
Speaker 4: if it was cold enough for one, I don't think.
Speaker 7: So I might be wrong on that. Again, you probably
Speaker 7: don't remember what you were wearing.
Speaker 4: No, uh, well, knowing Justin, he had like a uniform
Speaker 4: kind of that he wore, so it was probably like,
Speaker 4: you know, khaki pants and black T shirt and her
Speaker 4: white T shirt and a black like zipa jacket pants.
Speaker 2: Byron takes Kilgore through that day. He says they picked
Speaker 2: up Kelly around four, stopped to get a drink at
Speaker 2: the gas station near her house in Lenexa. By the way,
Speaker 2: this is the first time Byron is saying they stopped
Speaker 2: at a gas station. Then Byron says they went back
Speaker 2: to Justin's condo. Anastasia called. She and Justin talked for
Speaker 2: a while, arguing about their relationship. Finally just agreed to
Speaker 2: pick her up at the Dairy Queen. And when they
Speaker 2: got there, Anastasia was not happy.
Speaker 7: That you know what, I said hello. She didn't say
Speaker 7: hello back, but you know that was just because she
Speaker 7: was like just consumed buyer, you know, being angry. So
Speaker 7: you got in the car. What was the seating arrangement?
Speaker 4: Anastasia was in front of me, I was in the
Speaker 4: rear seat, and Kelly was sitting on my left behind.
Speaker 3: Justin okay, So Anastasia was in the right front, you
Speaker 3: were in the right rear, Kelly Moffatt left rear right
Speaker 3: jested driving okay.
Speaker 2: Byron says they went across the street to Mount Washington
Speaker 2: Cemetery as soon as they saw the caretaker they left.
Speaker 2: Kilgur then asks Byron to look at a map and
Speaker 2: point out where they were exactly and where they went
Speaker 2: after Mount Washington. Byron struggles a bit with the map up,
Speaker 2: trying to pinpoint what roads they took before ending up
Speaker 2: on Truman Road, near the adult bookstore, gas stations and
Speaker 2: the I four thirty five, where he says Anastasia got
Speaker 2: out of the car. Kilgore asks if Byron had never
Speaker 2: been to Lincoln Cemetery before. Byron says he didn't know
Speaker 2: where Lincoln Cemetery was until one of their friends and
Speaker 2: a Huntsecker showed him.
Speaker 7: No, I'll go there after anastasia body was found.
Speaker 4: I didn't really want to. I mean it just kind
Speaker 4: of as you don't creep me out.
Speaker 7: No, I didn't know you've ever been there. Well, yeah,
Speaker 7: I mean we've dot it.
Speaker 4: That night when Anna and I month ago, or I
Speaker 4: mean a month after she died. I think it might
Speaker 4: have been a couple of months because I had no
Speaker 4: idea where it was, and you know, people were saying
Speaker 4: Lincoln Cemetery where he was That.
Speaker 2: Back to the night of the twenty second Byron says,
Speaker 2: after Anastasia got out of the car on Truman Road
Speaker 2: at the four thirty five, they drove off and where
Speaker 2: you go.
Speaker 4: We went back to Justin's condo, and I guess we're
Speaker 4: going to just hang out there for a little bit
Speaker 4: because Kelly had some time to kill before she had.
Speaker 7: To be home.
Speaker 4: So we went there and Justin wasn't saying anything, and
Speaker 4: he was just kind of like sitting in his chair
Speaker 4: quietly when we got to the condo, and so Kelly
Speaker 4: and I played Nintendo for a little bit, you know,
Speaker 4: just like kind of waiting for him to say something,
Speaker 4: and you know, nothing was said. And then every now
Speaker 4: and again we'd look over the clock to see if
Speaker 4: it was time to lead yet. And because I think
Speaker 4: Kelly had to be home by nine.
Speaker 2: Byron says, they took Kelly home, and while they were there,
Speaker 2: Justin called Anastasia's house. That's when they learned she hadn't
Speaker 2: made it home yet. At that point, Byron says, Justin
Speaker 2: started getting worried about it.
Speaker 4: How much time it left and she got out of
Speaker 4: the car. We primarily Justin's house for about a half
Speaker 4: hour so, and then right to Kelly's took about a
Speaker 4: half an hour, I guess, I don't even probably twenty
Speaker 4: minutes to get back Tom Independence or or something like that.
Speaker 4: I know, I think it was probably I think he
Speaker 4: called a little bit before nine point thirty when he
Speaker 4: called on the stage's house, I think, And so about
Speaker 4: hour hour and a half two hours, probably more like
Speaker 4: an hour hour and a half to two hours.
Speaker 7: I guess.
Speaker 3: Was it dark when you dropped her off or when
Speaker 3: she got out of the car. Oh yeah, I mean
Speaker 3: it was dark when we were at the cemetery, So
Speaker 3: so I'm understanding craigly. Then she got out of a
Speaker 3: car for thirty five in treatment an hour and a
Speaker 3: half or so. As a last Justin calls home.
Speaker 7: She's not there. She only lived a couple of miles
Speaker 7: down the road.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 4: Nobody said, well, gee, I wonder where she went or
Speaker 4: where she's at, or what had happened to the Well,
Speaker 4: I know that Kelly was worried about her, and I was,
Speaker 4: you know, once he called and said she's not home yet,
Speaker 4: we all just kind of sat there.
Speaker 7: And nobody said, well, gee, maybe we ought to go look, No,
Speaker 7: nothing like that.
Speaker 4: We ought to make a few calls through her friends
Speaker 4: and see where she's at. She called somebody she is,
Speaker 4: she's somewhere now.
Speaker 7: We just called.
Speaker 4: I wonder if she might be dead? Well, we didn't
Speaker 4: certainly didn't think that. I let me asked to do
Speaker 4: Did you.
Speaker 7: Go anywhere else other than take Kelly home?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 4: I mean we went to Justin's and to Kelly's and
Speaker 4: the didn't make any stuff. No, didn't stop buying Para
Speaker 4: McDowell's a fart. Oh I'm sorry, Yes, yes we did.
Speaker 4: We went Actually, we went by Terror's apartment because Rom
Speaker 4: Abraham needed some stuff. They had just broken up, like
Speaker 4: how too long before, and Abraham wanted like the stuff
Speaker 4: that he had left over at her apartment. So we
Speaker 4: stopped buy a rick her place, and it was pretty,
Speaker 4: as I recall.
Speaker 7: We just picked up the bag and left and then
Speaker 7: drove over to Abraham's house and dropped it off, and.
Speaker 4: We stayed and talked with him for a while. But
Speaker 4: we need to get Kelly back, so we didn't spend
Speaker 4: a lot of time there.
Speaker 7: Okay, where'd you go first? We went to Tarra's first
Speaker 7: to pick up the stuff the step.
Speaker 2: So this is different from what Byron and Kelly had
Speaker 2: originally said, which was that once they were back at Justin's,
Speaker 2: Byron called Abraham, who had paged him. Then they went
Speaker 2: to Abraham's. Then they took Kelly home. Then Byron and
Speaker 2: Justin went to Terra's. Now Byron is saying that they
Speaker 2: went to Terra's first, then to Abraham's, then they took
Speaker 2: Kelly home, but Tara said Kelly wasn't with them, So
Speaker 2: which is it? Kilgore asks Byron the next time he
Speaker 2: spoke to anyone.
Speaker 4: The next morning, at like nine something, I got a
Speaker 4: phone call and I woke up to and it was
Speaker 4: Justin on the phone.
Speaker 7: You didn't talk to Kelly later on?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 4: I mean I no, she was in bed, and you know,
Speaker 4: like I said, I'm pretty sure she had school that day,
Speaker 4: Are you sure of that?
Speaker 7: No? I don't even remember what day of the week.
Speaker 7: It was on Oh that was the one saying okay
Speaker 7: that she probably had school. But no, I mean, I
Speaker 7: didn't even think to call her. I mean, like I said,
Speaker 7: I was still asleep.
Speaker 2: This is also different, at least according to Kelly. She
Speaker 2: said she paged Byron between eleven PM and midnight. Byron
Speaker 2: called her back and they talked for a while.
Speaker 7: But anyway, we.
Speaker 4: See what I find, you know, difficult to believe at
Speaker 4: this point about is that you've said that you know,
Speaker 4: Justin were inseparable, she were the best of friends.
Speaker 7: And here is his girlfriend bailed.
Speaker 4: Out of the car, and in the next days you
Speaker 4: hear everybody here is that she's been murdered Lincoln Cemetery,
Speaker 4: just probably one hundred and.
Speaker 7: Fifty yards or so away from she exited the car
Speaker 7: for thirty five and tournament. Justin calls you about nine
Speaker 7: nine thirty in the morning, and probably thirty minutes to
Speaker 7: an hour later he's over in can just buying a shotgun.
Speaker 3: Two days later he's found he's head blown off. All
Speaker 3: of this is pretty important stuff in a person's life.
Speaker 3: I would say you were one of the last ones
Speaker 3: to see Anna Stadium. You were the last one to
Speaker 3: talk to fiant of his friends or excuse he was
Speaker 3: the last one to talk to you, being of the
Speaker 3: friends group, naturally had to talk to somebody else by
Speaker 3: a shot.
Speaker 7: Again, this type of stuff.
Speaker 4: I kind it hard to believe that he didn't share
Speaker 4: some of this with you, some of what just the
Speaker 4: fact that it was nine o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 7: Maybe Justin already knew she was dead, but it wasn't
Speaker 7: even released, like as far as I know it did
Speaker 7: Justin do you think he did?
Speaker 4: He think he maybe he went out and looked for
Speaker 4: I can't imagine. I mean, unless it had been pre
Speaker 4: planned or something.
Speaker 7: Nobody know always where an stage is at. Justin knows
Speaker 7: that she's not home, right, Okay, had just In that
Speaker 7: intensitive and uncaring an individual that he wouldn't go look
Speaker 7: for a girl that he's known for how long? Remember
Speaker 7: how long they did it?
Speaker 4: Then he's been intimate with that, he's obviously had feelings for.
Speaker 4: And this is where I get a little bit to
Speaker 4: the point where I have problems that Justin wouldn't share
Speaker 4: something with you. Yeah, and at nine o'clock he had
Speaker 4: to be knowing that he was going to go buy
Speaker 4: a shotgun and that subsequently he was going to commit suicide.
Speaker 4: He had to know that when he talked to you,
Speaker 4: and as close and inseparable as you guys are, I
Speaker 4: find it hard to believe that he didn't say something. Well,
Speaker 4: and that's what I've been trying to, like justify for
Speaker 4: a really long time, is you know, if we were
Speaker 4: so close, then why if he had anything to do
Speaker 4: with it, why didn't he tell him?
Speaker 7: Did just to tell you anything about in the stage
Speaker 7: of being did?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 7: Do you know if Justin was present when Anastasia was killed?
Speaker 7: I don't know.
Speaker 4: You have nothing to fear, Okay, I mean, you have
Speaker 4: no reason to not tell me the truth, right yim.
Speaker 7: I'm not going to jump up and arrest you. Are
Speaker 7: you being honest and truthful with me? By him? Absolutely?
Speaker 4: And Justin didn't give any indication that he was going
Speaker 4: to go buy a shot again and go Floyd's head.
Speaker 6: No.
Speaker 4: I mean if he had, I would have, you know,
Speaker 4: immediately gone over there, you know, to stop him. There's
Speaker 4: an individual it says they're positive that they saw in
Speaker 4: your car on Truman Road had approximately eleven forty five
Speaker 4: on October twenty second, the night that Anastasia was killed
Speaker 4: web October twenty second.
Speaker 7: That's when you picked up Fantastasia, the dairy queen. She
Speaker 7: got out of the car for thirty five and Truman
Speaker 7: and here at eleven forty five at night, I had
Speaker 7: an individual wares. So your car license plates morbid right
Speaker 7: on Truman Road that night.
Speaker 2: Sergeant Kilgore just told Byron that someone reported seeing his
Speaker 2: car with his morbid license plates driving down Truman Road
Speaker 2: around eleven forty five the night Anastasia was murdered.
Speaker 7: That night, my car was parked in my mom's place.
Speaker 2: Remember in the last episode, Byron's lawyer said his car
Speaker 2: was in the shop the night Anastasia was murdered. So
Speaker 2: on the night of October twenty second, was Byron's car
Speaker 2: at the shop, at his mom's or on Truman Road.
Speaker 7: Why the way did you guys go back out and
Speaker 7: work brand and stead do that night?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 7: I stayed home and my mom was there.
Speaker 4: She knows that, Like you know, if I come in,
Speaker 4: I mean she would have heard me lead again, Okay,
Speaker 4: I was there when I was at my mom's house.
Speaker 7: He didn't go out, No, he didn't.
Speaker 8: Go back out.
Speaker 7: More of it is not in common license plate. Yeah,
Speaker 7: I don't know it. Just didn't go back out and
Speaker 7: look for nd stage that night.
Speaker 4: As far as I know he I mean, I only
Speaker 4: know what he told me, and he said that he
Speaker 4: was going how to sleep.
Speaker 7: Well that was all I mean, that was the only
Speaker 7: conversation that we have.
Speaker 3: But then you would agree with me then when you
Speaker 3: spoke with him at nine or nine thirty that morning,
Speaker 3: he knew what he was going to do.
Speaker 7: He must have. You were a reasonably intelligent young man.
Speaker 7: I mean, what conclusion would you draw?
Speaker 6: You know? He must have.
Speaker 7: Yeah, he did know that. And you being the last
Speaker 7: person that I know that he.
Speaker 4: Talked to in his in his group of his friends,
Speaker 4: of his associates, that he personally knew, You're the last.
Speaker 7: One, and you and him were your word inseparable. I think,
Speaker 7: what did he tell you? I'm sure that that's all
Speaker 7: that he said.
Speaker 4: And I'm one positive that all that he said to
Speaker 4: me was I in troubles sleeping last night, and you know,
Speaker 4: I told him that I was tired and wanted to
Speaker 4: go back to.
Speaker 7: Sleep, and we agreed to talk later.
Speaker 3: Did justin give you any indication prior to that phone
Speaker 3: call that he was going to commit suicide.
Speaker 7: No, I mean I had no idea. I assumed if
Speaker 7: anything that, you know, after all of this happened.
Speaker 4: You know, Kelly and I were kind of doubting ourselves
Speaker 4: even you know, in the friendship that we had, thinking
Speaker 4: that maybe he might have done it, and you know,
Speaker 4: if he did, we kind of we tried to hypothesize,
Speaker 4: like where he would be, what he would be doing.
Speaker 7: And why would he kill Anastation exactly?
Speaker 6: And that.
Speaker 3: He's as far as I know, he had no reason
Speaker 3: to why would he kill himself?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I don't have any idea. Is there
Speaker 7: another person involved with this that you were afraid of? Involved?
Speaker 7: Mean that somebody else killed Anastasian and that justin knew it.
Speaker 7: I can't imagine. And so this his whole suicide is
Speaker 7: just a staged because maybe he was going to talk
Speaker 7: talk about that he knew who killed her. I'm looking
Speaker 7: for an answer.
Speaker 4: I can't believe that that is possible because I mean,
Speaker 4: like I said, we were I mean just the four
Speaker 4: of us were best friends and.
Speaker 7: We never really.
Speaker 6: Did you guys ever play with guns?
Speaker 3: Were you up in that cemetery playing with a gun
Speaker 3: and something happened no, seriously, now, seriously, honestly, honestly, did
Speaker 3: you go out and look for Anastasia that night?
Speaker 7: Do you know of anybody that did? Nobody except her dad?
Speaker 7: What do you know about that? What did you talk
Speaker 7: to him?
Speaker 4: I've talked to him a couple of times, once at
Speaker 4: the funeral, and I think I ran into a must
Speaker 4: person that I don't really remember.
Speaker 3: If you heard from anybody that your car was seen.
Speaker 3: I was near the area of Lincoln Cemetery the night
Speaker 3: that Anastasia was killed. Just to you, I haven't heard
Speaker 3: anything about that, and you are telling me now that
Speaker 3: you were not there.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I was in Justin's car the whole night, and
Speaker 4: I don't even think I drove my card all that day.
Speaker 3: If you had to, if you had to provide me
Speaker 3: with the name of who might know what happened, who
Speaker 3: would that be? Who would Anastasia turned to when she
Speaker 3: exited that vehicle?
Speaker 7: Her dad? I mean, that's the only person that I
Speaker 7: can think of.
Speaker 2: Sergeant Kilgore presses Byron, did you.
Speaker 7: Kill Anna Stasian? Did you kill Anastasian?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 7: Sure, there's no way that your car could have.
Speaker 3: Been out in that area the night that she was
Speaker 3: killed October twenty second, right, nineteen ninety seven. There's no
Speaker 3: no way your car could have been There's no way
Speaker 3: it was parked to my mom's apartment. Or you have
Speaker 3: no reason to lie to me, do you?
Speaker 8: No, there's a.
Speaker 7: You can sit here.
Speaker 3: You can even tell me that you were present, and
Speaker 3: you still would not be any trouble, in any trouble
Speaker 3: with the law.
Speaker 7: You understand that, don't you.
Speaker 8: Yeah, based on the.
Speaker 7: Letter from our prosecutor.
Speaker 3: Right, so you could sit there and tell me you
Speaker 3: were there and you know you wouldn't get in any trouble, right, right,
Speaker 3: So you have no reason to lie.
Speaker 7: I mean you have no reason to fear the legal
Speaker 7: system at this point in time.
Speaker 6: Is this correct? Yeah?
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 3: Were you present when Anna Stasia was killed? Do you
Speaker 3: know who killed Anna Stationian?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 7: Are you telling me the truth?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 1: They go off tape for a few moments, then come
Speaker 1: right back.
Speaker 4: Would you be willing to take a life victor tests
Speaker 4: to verify what you and I have talked about today?
Speaker 7: Well? I would say yes, but you know I know
Speaker 7: the polygraph start. We don't use the polygraph.
Speaker 8: What do you use?
Speaker 7: We use the computer? Voice dressed and analyzer. I would
Speaker 7: not wrong with that.
Speaker 4: Okay, we can't do it today, So could I get
Speaker 4: with you in the mid air future and Italians agreeable?
Speaker 4: That would accommodate both our schedules. Yeah, yeah, well not Yeah,
Speaker 4: I guess I need a duel, better commitment than that
Speaker 4: assurance in your voice. Yeah, I mean I don't want
Speaker 4: to spend get maybe here to do that. That's I mean,
Speaker 4: you're telling me the truth absolubly.
Speaker 1: The interview ends soon after.
Speaker 2: So some of Byron's story has definitely changed since he
Speaker 2: first told it on October twenty fourth, nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 2: Is it because he's hiding something or is it because
Speaker 2: it's been almost two years and time has warped his memory.
Speaker 1: Either way, on the whole.
Speaker 2: Byron's story has pretty much stayed the same. On November
Speaker 2: twenty fourth, nineteen ninety nine, Bob and kill Gore speak again.
Speaker 2: It's pretty contentious right off the bat. Bob wants information
Speaker 2: about the case and kill Gore isn't giving it up.
Speaker 4: Because this investigation has taken two years, I've granted you
Speaker 4: some leadway and it's in looking at this from my perspective,
Speaker 4: you must know that I'm very frustrated at what appears as.
Speaker 6: A parent progress in this case, and.
Speaker 7: I think it's about.
Speaker 6: Time that you confirm for me that you're actually doing
Speaker 6: something with this.
Speaker 4: Do you have any more information you'd like to add
Speaker 4: to this today? Do you have any more information you
Speaker 4: like to add to this today? Yes, I'm aware of
Speaker 4: friction within this department that makes me suspect that you
Speaker 4: have reason not to share the information that you've gained
Speaker 4: through your investigation with any other members of this office.
Speaker 7: Excuse me, I miss something?
Speaker 4: Well, are you saying that I'm withholding information from my superiors.
Speaker 7: Or my department?
Speaker 6: Yeah, that would be what I perceive.
Speaker 8: Either that, or do you have a specific example.
Speaker 4: A specific example would be Captain Phillips making statements that
Speaker 4: this case is more than likely a murders suicide, while
Speaker 4: you are saying no suspects have been released from suspicion
Speaker 4: or no one has been cleared, and he seems to
Speaker 4: have a direct linkage to my daughter's boyfriend who is
Speaker 4: also found dead. Now I must ask you, is justin
Speaker 4: a more than likely suspect a primary suspect in this case?
Speaker 7: Just as you prepare many scenarios.
Speaker 8: Of what may or may not have happened, and so
Speaker 8: do we, and.
Speaker 7: That would be one of them.
Speaker 4: Then I'm going to draw the conclusion that the people
Speaker 4: that were with her that evening are still suspects. Why
Speaker 4: as Byray Case was given immunity from prosecution in exchange
Speaker 4: for information.
Speaker 7: That he may be with Holy and even with that,
Speaker 7: he stayed with the same.
Speaker 4: Circumstances that he started out with from the beginning of
Speaker 4: this investigations. Because he doesn't have any immunity from the
Speaker 4: people on that list, We're going to see that their
Speaker 4: justice is done if he says anything, and by this
Speaker 4: department's track record on protecting witnesses, I'd say that he wasn't. Toby,
Speaker 4: nor am I going to sit here while you criticize.
Speaker 4: You've done that both publicly and nationwide and worldwide. What
Speaker 4: avenue would you like me to pursue to get Byron
Speaker 4: Case to change his story? Well, he was granted immunity
Speaker 4: from prosecution. Immunity doesn't mean anything in this case, because
Speaker 4: it means a great deal. Did he take your light
Speaker 4: detected testment? I didn't think so he didn't refuse to. Yeah, right,
Speaker 4: of course he wouldn't. It's a good a liar maybe
Speaker 4: give him too much credit. Well, maybe I don't give
Speaker 4: you enough. I'm sorry, But from my perspective, you'll have
Speaker 4: to understand I don't see anything happening in this case
Speaker 4: except a lot of these people.
Speaker 2: Look, it's easy to say Bob's behavior during the investigation
Speaker 2: is outrageous, but we can't forget that he is a
Speaker 2: grieving father.
Speaker 1: Desperate for answers.
Speaker 2: For almost two years, he's been waiting for kil Gore
Speaker 2: to find and arrest the person responsible for killing his daughter.
Speaker 2: Maybe some of what Bob brings kill Gore is worth
Speaker 2: following up on. Maybe Bob gets in his own way
Speaker 2: and causes the opposite effect, since kill Gore's told him
Speaker 2: he hasn't been ruled out as a suspect. Maybe he's overcompensating.
Speaker 2: But I try to imagine my own mom in this
Speaker 2: very situation. I think she would have acted with the
Speaker 2: same determination as Bob. She also would have launched her
Speaker 2: own investigation, moved heaven and earth, basically stopped at nothing
Speaker 2: until the killer was tracked down and brought to justice.
Speaker 2: So I think Bob does deserve some leeway here.
Speaker 1: Anyway.
Speaker 2: On September twenty one, two thousand, almost three years after
Speaker 2: Anastasia was murdered.
Speaker 7: Do you know how Anastasia died?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 1: Next time on The Real Killer.
Speaker 7: Where'd you shoot her?
Speaker 6: At?
Speaker 1: And had an old witness a new story?
Speaker 7: Did she's pretty close to the car? How did she
Speaker 7: fall well?
Speaker 6: Back? Well, it was like kind of like an explosion.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's just I mean, it just knocked her backwards
Speaker 7: the whole thing.
Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely
Speaker 2: those of the individuals participating in the podcast. If you,
Speaker 2: or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis,
Speaker 2: please no help is available. Call or text nine eight
Speaker 2: eight or chat online at the Suicide and Crisis Lifelines
Speaker 2: website at nine eight eight lifeline dot org. To see photos, maps,
Speaker 2: and documents related to this season's story, follow The Real
Speaker 2: Killer podcast on Instagram and at trk podcast on TikTok.
Speaker 2: The Real Killer is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia,
Speaker 2: hosted by me Leah Rothman Executive producers Leah Rothman and
Speaker 2: Elisa Rosen.
Speaker 1: For AYR Media.
Speaker 2: Written by Leah Rothman, editing and sound design by Cameron Taggi,
Speaker 2: mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggi. Production coordinator Andy Levine,
Speaker 2: audio engineer Justin Longerbeam studio engineer Graham Gibson. Legal counsel
Speaker 2: for AYR Media, Gianni Douglas, Executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya
Speaker 2: Howard