WEBVTT - The Real Killer Season 3: Ep. 4, Seriously. Honestly. 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:00.960 A warning. 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:06.279 This episode contains depictions of violence and conversations about suicide 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:11.120 that may be disturbing and triggering for some listeners. If 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:14.840 you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please fast forward to 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.200 the end of this episode to find out where help 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:25.000 is available. It's been almost a year since Anastasia Whitbulsfuchen 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:29.760 was murdered and her boyfriend, Justin Bruton took his own life. 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.280 Investigators are no closer to making an arrest. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.960 Were you present when Anastasia was killed? Now do you 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.320 know if Justin Brutin killed Anastasian? 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:43.519 No? 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:44.080 I doubt. 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:49.960 Or are they actually closer than they've ever been before? 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:57.600 I'm Leah Rothman. 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:11.480 This is The Real Killer, Episode four. Seriously, Honestly, before 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.200 we move forward in the investigation, we need to go 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:14.800 back a bit. 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:16.240 First. 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:22.640 Let's talk about Tara McDowell, Abraham Nisley's ex girlfriend. Remember 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:27.600 the night of October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven. Supposedly, Justin, 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:30.680 Byron and Kelly went to Abraham's to pick up some 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.679 stuff he had of Tara's, then took Kelly home. Then 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.920 Byron and Justin went to Tara's to drop the stuff off. 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:43.240 For months, Sergeant Gary Kilgore had been trying to interview Tara. 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:48.360 He was unsuccessful until February third of nineteen ninety eight. 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.680 I don't have the audio from her interview, only the transcript, 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.680 so from that I will share some of what she said. 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.040 Tara tells Kilgore that she was very good friends with 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:04.760 Anastasia and Justin, but she would consider herself Anastasia's confidante. 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:07.640 Tara says, in regard to the night of October twenty second, 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.040 she remembers Justin and Byron telling her that they were 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:15.160 going to Abraham's place after hers, not that they had 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:19.160 already been there. If you remember, that's a different order 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:23.800 of events than what Kelly and Byron originally said. Tara 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:26.360 says she doesn't want to make it sound like she 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:31.120 suspected either Byron or Justin of Anastasia's murder, but once 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.920 she heard her friend had been killed, she found it 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.840 strange that neither of them mentioned having been with Kelly 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:43.000 or Anastasia that night. Tara says, when Anastasia got into 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:48.040 her depressions about Justin, she could be quote very aggravating. 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:52.799 Anastasia would call quote an unbelievable number of times a day. 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.680 Tara share is that one time Byron recorded an outgoing 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.840 message on his pager that was something like, if this 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:03.280 is Anastasia, don't bother leaving your number or leaving a message, 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.200 because nobody's going to call you back. Nobody wants to 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:10.360 talk to you. Tara tells Kilgore that one day, not 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:14.120 long after Anastasia died, she stopped at the Amaico station 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:18.079 to ask where Lincoln Cemetery was. She and some friends 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:22.359 wanted to see the spot where Anastasia had died. There 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.200 at the Amaico station, she spoke with a man who 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.919 said he had already talked with police about seeing Anastasia 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.120 get out of the car that night at the stoplight. 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:37.000 Sounds like Tara's describing Don Rand, the night mechanic at 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:41.240 the Amaico station. So the man told Tara he noticed 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:46.400 Anastasia was walking unusually quick, and she seemed agitated, upset, 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:50.800 and angry. This is not what Don Rand originally told 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.600 police back then. When he was asked if Anastasia looked upset, 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.640 he said he couldn't tell. According to Tara, this man 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:02.200 said he watched Anniston Deja walk right past him go 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.920 across the street and up the hill that leads to 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:09.840 Lincoln's Cemetery, But Tara says he didn't see Anastasia go 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.240 into Lincoln, only up the hill, and he didn't say 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:17.480 anything about seeing a car following her. All of this 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.599 is new information to kill Gore. Just so you know, 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.159 back in nineteen ninety seven off Truman, there was a 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.240 road to the left that led to Lincoln Cemetery. Today 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.559 that entrance is closed to this man at the Amico station, 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:37.560 who very well may have been don rand see Anastasia 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.960 walk up the road that led to Lincoln Cemetery where 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:45.320 she was eventually killed, and if so, why didn't he 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:50.279 tell this too investigators. In regard to Anastasia's family, Tara 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.799 says that the relationship with her stepmom Diane wasn't great, 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:58.400 and therefore the one with her dad wasn't either. Tara 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:02.360 tells kil Gore she quote had the impression from Anastasia 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.160 quite a few times that there had been some very 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:10.680 distinctive abuse, which Tara believed had happened sometime in the past, 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.320 and Tara doesn't know if the alleged abuse was emotional 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.440 or physical. She added, quote, I don't know if it 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.360 was her father. I don't know if it was her stepfather. 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:25.920 Tera says, having been an abused child herself, she believed 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:31.000 Anastasia obviously lived through something when she was younger. The 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:36.320 conversation eventually turns to Anastasia's clothes. Ta Anastasia would borrow 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.040 her sister Fran's clothes a lot and friend was kind 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:42.760 of a hippie, she says. Anastasia was big on jeans 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:47.760 and real simple shirts black. She dressed simply, almost boyishly. 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:53.719 Tera says, Anastasia wore Doc Martins mostly. She had sandals Birkenstocks, 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.760 but Tara never saw her wear them, and Tara never 0:05:57.839 --> 0:05:59.880 saw Anastasia carry a purse. 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:02.120 Only a'll wallet. 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.440 Kil Gore asks Tara if Justin or Byron owned a firearm. 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.080 Tara says Justin said at one point he had a gun, 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:12.560 but he got rid of it a couple of months before, 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.440 and to the best of her knowledge, Byron did not 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.719 own a firearm. However, she says his father may have 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:23.640 owned at least one gun. Then she says, quote, I 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:28.000 wouldn't know. Tara also says if Justin had anything to 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:33.520 do with Anastasia's death, Byron definitely knew about it. So 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:38.360 Tara gives some interesting and some conflicting information. The question 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:43.000 is will any of it help in the investigation. The 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.640 other thing that happens in nineteen ninety eight is that 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:49.920 things get a little sticky for Sergeant Kilgore because Bob 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.960 writes several complaints about him to his bosses, and a 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.839 formal complaint is filed about kil Gore for allegedly disclosing 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:02.360 an underage witness's name, which resulted in her receiving threats 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.080 she would be raped, killed, and her family's house burned down. 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.400 Between late summer of nineteen ninety eight and the summer 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:15.320 of nineteen ninety nine, the investigation remains in full swing. 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:20.480 Bob continues emailing kil Gore. Justin's dad hires a psychic. 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:24.200 There's talk of a Lincoln Prep curse. That's where Anastasia 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.600 and Byron both went to school. More people are interviewed, 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:32.800 and even a Ouiji board is consulted. Jumping forward to 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:37.200 June twenty fourth, nineteen ninety nine, Bob meets with Kilgore 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:41.280 at the Sheriff's department. Here's some of their recorded conversation. 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.000 God Whitwell speaking, I understand that you have some additional 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:46.040 new information. 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:47.280 That's correct. 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:51.360 As you know in the past that I've given you 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:56.280 a list of vehicles that I've seen in the area. 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.120 You might remember from our last episode. Bob is very 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.040 fixated on the cars. He says he saw the night 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:04.400 Anastasia was murdered. 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.960 Now this is still on the lack of a better word, 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.000 the caravan coming down Truman Road as you were standing 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:13.080 at the interest of the Mount Washington's cemetery. 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.760 Grant is correct, and as you know, there's already forty 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:17.640 cars on the list. 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:22.600 In the last several months, the list of cars has 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:27.000 grown from thirty one to forty. Bob says he knows 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:30.400 with every fiber of his being, the drivers of these 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.880 cars have at the very least some knowledge of what 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:36.160 happened to Anastasia and the night she was killed. 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.280 And I wanted you to know that I'm so certain about. 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:45.400 That, I'm willing to swear, testify, and take live detector tests, 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:51.480 take hypnosis whatever to confirm that for you, because if 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:53.720 you're not investigating that, you're not doing a job. 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.000 Just keep it to the information that you're trying to 0:08:58.040 --> 0:08:58.480 provide me. 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:07.959 Please, Yes, I also had occasion to speak to a 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:10.240 friend of. 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:16.600 Pages and who is now a very close friend of 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:18.880 Tara McDowell. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.040 And she says that she heard. 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:31.120 Byron talking about the events and chronology of the evening, and. 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.679 The story she tells me is that. 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:43.120 Byron, Anastasia, Justin, and Kelly were on Blue Ridge that 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:48.800 evening in front of the cemetery where. 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:49.280 She was found. 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:53.560 Who is this individual Allie? 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:54.920 I don't remember her name. 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.559 I'm sorry, it's been months. I can get it for you. 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.120 So I've never heard the name of Allie. 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:06.280 She probably would not be willing to come forward and 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:08.560 say these things, but maybe she will. 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:12.679 Anything else. Mister wigbolsphegan. 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.320 Out at this time. I reserve the possibility to come 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:17.840 in again. 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:21.800 I certainly feel that this has been a productive meeting 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:26.280 that I've been able to share with you what's been 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.040 on my mind for several months. 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.080 About three weeks later, on July fifteenth, nineteen ninety nine, 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:37.120 Bob calls Kilgore. He wants to pass on Ali's last name, 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.840 but because she was under age at the time, we're 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:41.640 not going to discuss her last. 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:47.160 Name is and she's approximately sixteen years old. 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.040 Bob says he recorded an interview with Ali in late 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.400 nineteen ninety eight at the coffee shop where Page worked. 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:59.520 During that conversation, Ali told Bob. Not long after Anastasia's murder, 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.600 Ali and Byron had a conversation about it. 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:07.240 Okay, then, if I'm understanding you correctly, Byron Case told 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:11.280 Ali and some of those details again. 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:21.600 Well, specifically that they Anastasia, Justin, Kelly and Byron were 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:27.559 traveling in a vehicle on Blue Ridge Boulevard, that they 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:33.360 stopped in front of the cemetery, and that that is 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:38.720 where the argument took place. And that's where Anastasia get 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:39.040 out of. 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:44.520 The car at the Lincoln entrance, well on Blue right. 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:50.720 Okay, And do you know why Byron would tell Ali this? 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:53.360 Or does Ali? Did Ali say why? 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:59.840 Allie said that he was just very talkative that she 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:04.760 was there. That No, I don't specifically recall. 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.800 Let me ask you this question, who do you think 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:09.760 killed Anastasia. 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:12.360 I don't know. 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:13.920 Do you think Byron did? 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:20.439 I think there were many individual presents and near the 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.440 name at the time. I don't know who pulled the trigger. 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:25.559 I don't think. 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:32.079 That person is alive today. But maybe do you think 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:32.800 Justin did it? 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:34.880 I don't know. 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.439 I thought you just said you don't think that person 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:38.600 is alive today. 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:41.800 Well, then it might very well have been. 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:43.920 Justin, So I didn't, you know, I don't want to 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:45.120 make sure I didn't misunderstand. 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:51.280 I certainly haven't heard anyone anyone mentioned his name, which 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:56.000 it would be a big clue, and to me personally, 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.240 that would mean that more than likely. 0:12:58.120 --> 0:12:58.720 He did not. 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:00.680 Trigger. 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:03.480 Justin Justin did not pull the trigger. 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:09.439 But that's only if somebody else came up and said, well. 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:13.400 At this point, I don't know why anyone would protect him. 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.000 Okay, do you honestly think that Justin did it? 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:16.199 Though? 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:17.640 No, I'm asking what you think. 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:21.560 I do not think Justin did it, Okay, I don't 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:23.440 think whoever did it but admit it? 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:23.920 Okay? 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:27.720 But you think it's within this this group that with Danastasian, 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:29.840 Byron and Kelly Moffatt. 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.520 And Justin within the group, they were all present when 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:34.199 this happened. Is this what you believe. 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.959 Someone who drove their vehicle on the road that evening 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.400 that I witnessed pull the trigger. 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.320 But you'd think then, though, that Byron and Justin and 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:51.480 everybody was there. I'm trying to get an understanding of 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:52.960 what you're thinking. 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:58.200 What I'm thinking is that if they were not immediately 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:04.480 within I sh uh of the scene, they certainly know 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:16.160 what happened. I'm I'm feeling that Justin knew it too, 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.760 that he wanted to fess up and tell the truth, 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.400 and that someone decided that would not be a good idea, 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:29.480 and in order to keep him quiet, they shot him. 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.360 Why no one's coming forward with this information because they 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:41.440 know that who's ever responsible is not beyond keeping someone 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:45.680 else quiet, even if that means killing them. 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:52.000 I'm despite Bob's speculation, Justin's official cause of death has 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.280 always been suicide. 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:58.000 Okay, you've got to You've got a reason then, why 0:14:58.280 --> 0:14:59.160 Justin was killed. 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:03.440 Well, the reason for why Anastasia was killed. 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:07.800 Well, the story that we here repeated that you would 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:12.680 not like to have repeated, that's been discounted for some reason. 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:17.720 Seems to be that there was a game being played 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.640 with a gun and that someone unbeknownst to the person 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:26.840 holding the gun, put a bullet in the gun and 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:28.520 that is how she died. 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:32.720 Okay, And this was taking place at Lincoln Cemetery or 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:34.320 nearby or. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.600 Nearby, So then that would mean that the body was moved. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.360 Well, it might mean that I don't think that it 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:41.080 was moved. 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.640 But okay, if it wasn't moved, and it would had 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:50.440 have happened at Lincoln Cemetery and not just nearby, well, 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:51.440 I don't know. 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:55.440 I didn't get to benefit by the crime scenean investigation, 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:58.720 but it happened with a number. 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.560 Of people nearby. 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.200 But you believe then it's an argument based on what 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.280 Ali says and the argument between Justin and the stage. 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:09.520 It took place on Blue Ridge near the entrance to 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:10.520 Lincoln Cemetery. 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.680 I hear the prevalence of an argument taking place. I 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.760 personally don't believe it. I think it's just a convenient one. 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:18.320 Okay. 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.600 And in any event, and in order to stop and 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:25.040 play a game, they must have resolved their differences at 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.160 least for a moment, would you think. 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:33.720 Actually, I don't know under what circumstances a gun would 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.760 have been introduced to the scene. Well, I think Byron's 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:40.200 fearing for his life, and that's why he's not telling 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:45.040 the story. So that's probably why he's not the trigger person, 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.840 because in the story that we hear, he's only the 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:49.600 person that puts the bullets in the gun. 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:51.840 And the trigger person is I don't know. 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:57.360 The conversation then turns to Anastatia's close and whether or 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:00.520 not she ever made it home. Remember, Bob believes she 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.160 did because he said he found her purse, her blue jeans, 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.639 and the washing machine and her underwear soaking in the sink. 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:12.040 I want to know did they come to my house 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:18.280 sometime that evening? I mean, after all, I find that 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.480 I have several descriptions of her wearing blue jeans, and 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:26.679 she's not wearing blue jeans that night. I have a 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.919 billfold at home. Well, if the billfold is at home, 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:32.200 how does. 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:33.359 It get to my house? 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.400 How is it that she's not wearing the same clothes 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.560 that four people describe her. 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.680 At Did your a wife remember what she was wearing? 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.199 Well, my wife thought that she was wearing blue jeans, 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.040 but she's. 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.760 She was the last one to actually see her out 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:52.040 in your family right. 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.360 And also, mister I believe his name was la Page, 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:00.919 who gave a story that he was driving test driving 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.960 a car and saw her in the cemetery that evening, 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:09.280 said that she was wearing blue jeans. 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:14.760 So Bob brings up mister Lapage, George Lapage and his 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:19.080 wife actually called sergeant Kilgore three days after Anastasia's body 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:23.800 was found to offer some information. At that time, mister 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:27.480 Lapage told Kilgore that on October twenty second, while he 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:29.760 and his wife were test driving a car in Mount 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:34.480 Washington Cemetery. Remember that's the cemetery Anastasia was dropped off 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:38.119 At around four point thirty, the Lapages saw a white 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:42.200 female sitting on the steps of the Nelson mausoleum. Mister 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:44.440 Lapage said that the woman approached the car and asked 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:47.400 what time it was. It was around five point thirty 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:51.000 five forty five. The female then told them she was 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:54.840 waiting for her boyfriend to arrive. Missus Lapage believed the 0:18:54.880 --> 0:19:00.200 female seemed quote disoriented. In Kilgore's report, the old only 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.960 clothing item the Lapages described the female wearing was a 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:10.760 quote brown Swede type jacket, no mention of jeans or shoes. Now, 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.479 did Bob talk to the Lapages on his own and 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:17.600 get more information, like Anastasia was wearing blue jeans? If 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:22.280 he did, I don't have any documentation about that. Next, 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.960 Bob brings up Glenn Calliver, the caretaker at Mount Washington Cemetery. 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:33.840 Mister Cliver was describing her attire, wearing a corduroy coat 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:41.120 and blue jeans, and suddenly she's not wearing the same clothing. 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:46.359 Remember, mister Cliver saw Anastasia twice that night, once around 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:50.400 five pm and later around seven pm when he ushered 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.679 her Justin, Byron and Kelly out of the cemetery because 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:58.600 it was after hours. Two investigators Glenn Cliver never described 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:03.640 Anastasia wearing anything other than a quote dark coat. Bob 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.320 spoke with mister Cliver the morning of the twenty third 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.760 when he was out looking for Anastasia, and he says 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.800 he talked to him again some time after. Is that 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:17.360 when mister Cliver might have told Bob he saw Anastasia 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:21.880 in blue jeans. Anyway, Kilgore and Bob talk a bit 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.280 longer than kil Gore wraps it up. By the way, 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.320 I don't have any documentation that says Kilgore ever made 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.199 contact with Ali to check out her story, or that 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.480 he circled back to Glenn Calliver or the Lapages to 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:39.600 see what they saw Anastasia wearing that night. But for 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:44.719 almost a year, Sergeant Kilgore has been wanting, waiting to 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:49.040 talk to one person in particular. He's finally going to 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:49.800 get his chance. 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.240 He just got an ugly Byron Chase. 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.680 On July twenty ninth, nineteen ninety nine, about twenty one 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:13.680 months after Anastasia was murdered. Byron case is that the 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:18.360 Jackson County Sheriff's Department to speak with Sergeant Kilgore. Byron 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:22.960 now has been granted limited immunity, which means, in exchange 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:26.160 for giving a truthful statement regarding the homicide of Anastasia, 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:29.800 the death of Justin, and the events of October twenty second, 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:33.200 nineteen ninety seven, the state agrees that his statement will 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:37.760 not be used against him. However, if he knowingly provides 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:41.240 false information to the police, his statement could be used 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:45.159 against him in a prosecution for providing false information or 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:49.480 obstructing justice. It seems for this interview Byron is there alone. 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.800 There's no mention in Kilgore's report that he had an 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:53.639 attorney present. 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.200 How long have you known? Just a year? Maybeel a 0:21:58.200 --> 0:21:58.800 little bit more? 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:04.320 Aren't By discussing Byron's relationship with Justin and Anastasia. 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:09.800 Were pretty good friends, Oh yeah, absolutely, do you live? 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:15.000 I think yeah, for a while we well after he 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:20.480 and Anastasia met, I moved In. I lived with them 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:25.040 for about three months, I guess with Annastasia also, Yeah, yeah, 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:27.359 all three of us, didn't you at one point in 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:33.480 time dated Anastasia. No, she was a friend of mine 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:36.480 from I think we met in the eighth grade. Yeah, 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:38.479 we met in the eighth grade, and we didn't get 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:41.880 along initially, but when we went to high school together we. 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:46.159 Got pretty close. So, but you had a d It 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:48.800 was only strictly patronic, but you knew her quite well. 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:51.040 Oh yeah, I mean, you know, we were really close friends. 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:52.760 I mean, you know, we cried on each other's shoulders 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.119 quite a bit, you know, I mean it was just, 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:58.879 you know, we could pretty much share anything, and you 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.919 and justinretty much the same way. I mean, Justin was 0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:04.800 I don't know, Justin had a tendency to be kind 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:05.480 of closed off. 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:08.960 So I mean, you know, when I did get something 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:09.560 out of him. 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:12.080 It was usually after it had been bothering him for 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:15.760 a long time, so he wasn't really all that open. 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:19.120 But you know, he was very honest at least, and 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:24.119 you know that's something that I really respect. I've heard 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:27.000 and been told that you and Justin a little bit 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:30.119 more than just than the time I. 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:31.239 Knew that was going to come up. 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:37.800 I heard that rumor, and I don't remember who eckered 0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:42.160 it from. But no, Justin and I were always very 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:45.000 very good. 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:46.160 Friends, and it was never. 0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:52.359 Anything beyond that, the fact that we hung out together 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:56.000 all the time. And I guess some people were thinking 0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:58.040 that Justin might have been gay at the coffee shop. 0:23:58.080 --> 0:23:59.760 They you know, they probably wondered. 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:01.560 I don't. I never heard any talk about it, but 0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:06.000 you know, I would probably have assumed the same thing 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:08.080 if I had been an outsider looking in on something 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:08.560 like that. 0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:14.120 But you buy noo. 0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:18.920 Yeah, Kilgore goes back to asking about Anastasia. 0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:22.320 You did you always remain with her. 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:29.399 There were a couple of points when we were well, 0:24:30.040 --> 0:24:31.520 there are a couple of points when we were living 0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:35.480 together when I would kind of get annoyed by the 0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:37.480 fact that her and Justin would fight all the time. 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:42.359 And it was mostly because from my perspective, it was 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:46.000 mostly because she wasn't really happy with the way that 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:48.960 Justin treated her. You know, he wasn't giving her enough 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:51.240 attention or you know, or something like that. 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:56.040 So I mean it got a little annoying, and you know, 0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:58.640 I would go talk to her, and you know try 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:00.960 and I don't media. 0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:05.560 Eighth, so I mean it was never, you know, it 0:25:05.600 --> 0:25:09.120 was never to the point that I disliked her. Bring 0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:15.200 out of the document that was found in Justin's computer. 0:25:16.760 --> 0:25:22.000