1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:00,960 Speaker 1: A warning. 2 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:06,279 Speaker 2: This episode contains depictions of violence and conversations about suicide 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 2: that may be disturbing and triggering for some listeners. If 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 2: you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please fast forward to 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 2: the end of this episode to find out where help 6 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 2: is available. It's been almost a year since Anastasia Whitbulsfuchen 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 2: was murdered and her boyfriend, Justin Bruton took his own life. 8 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 2: Investigators are no closer to making an arrest. 9 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 3: Were you present when Anastasia was killed? Now do you 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 3: know if Justin Brutin killed Anastasian? 11 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 4: No? 12 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 5: I doubt. 13 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 2: Or are they actually closer than they've ever been before? 14 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: I'm Leah Rothman. 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 2: This is The Real Killer, Episode four. Seriously, Honestly, before 16 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 2: we move forward in the investigation, we need to go 17 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: back a bit. 18 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: First. 19 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 2: Let's talk about Tara McDowell, Abraham Nisley's ex girlfriend. Remember 20 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: the night of October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven. Supposedly, Justin, 21 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 2: Byron and Kelly went to Abraham's to pick up some 22 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 2: stuff he had of Tara's, then took Kelly home. Then 23 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: Byron and Justin went to Tara's to drop the stuff off. 24 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: For months, Sergeant Gary Kilgore had been trying to interview Tara. 25 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 2: He was unsuccessful until February third of nineteen ninety eight. 26 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 2: I don't have the audio from her interview, only the transcript, 27 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: so from that I will share some of what she said. 28 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: Tara tells Kilgore that she was very good friends with 29 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 2: Anastasia and Justin, but she would consider herself Anastasia's confidante. 30 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 2: Tara says, in regard to the night of October twenty second, 31 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: she remembers Justin and Byron telling her that they were 32 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 2: going to Abraham's place after hers, not that they had 33 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: already been there. If you remember, that's a different order 34 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 2: of events than what Kelly and Byron originally said. Tara 35 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 2: says she doesn't want to make it sound like she 36 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 2: suspected either Byron or Justin of Anastasia's murder, but once 37 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 2: she heard her friend had been killed, she found it 38 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 2: strange that neither of them mentioned having been with Kelly 39 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: or Anastasia that night. Tara says, when Anastasia got into 40 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: her depressions about Justin, she could be quote very aggravating. 41 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 2: Anastasia would call quote an unbelievable number of times a day. 42 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 2: Tara share is that one time Byron recorded an outgoing 43 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: message on his pager that was something like, if this 44 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 2: is Anastasia, don't bother leaving your number or leaving a message, 45 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: because nobody's going to call you back. Nobody wants to 46 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 2: talk to you. Tara tells Kilgore that one day, not 47 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: long after Anastasia died, she stopped at the Amaico station 48 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 2: to ask where Lincoln Cemetery was. She and some friends 49 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 2: wanted to see the spot where Anastasia had died. There 50 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: at the Amaico station, she spoke with a man who 51 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 2: said he had already talked with police about seeing Anastasia 52 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 2: get out of the car that night at the stoplight. 53 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: Sounds like Tara's describing Don Rand, the night mechanic at 54 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 2: the Amaico station. So the man told Tara he noticed 55 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: Anastasia was walking unusually quick, and she seemed agitated, upset, 56 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 2: and angry. This is not what Don Rand originally told 57 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: police back then. When he was asked if Anastasia looked upset, 58 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: he said he couldn't tell. According to Tara, this man 59 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: said he watched Anniston Deja walk right past him go 60 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: across the street and up the hill that leads to 61 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: Lincoln's Cemetery, But Tara says he didn't see Anastasia go 62 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 2: into Lincoln, only up the hill, and he didn't say 63 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 2: anything about seeing a car following her. All of this 64 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 2: is new information to kill Gore. Just so you know, 65 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 2: back in nineteen ninety seven off Truman, there was a 66 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: road to the left that led to Lincoln Cemetery. Today 67 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,559 Speaker 2: that entrance is closed to this man at the Amico station, 68 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: who very well may have been don rand see Anastasia 69 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: walk up the road that led to Lincoln Cemetery where 70 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: she was eventually killed, and if so, why didn't he 71 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 2: tell this too investigators. In regard to Anastasia's family, Tara 72 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,799 Speaker 2: says that the relationship with her stepmom Diane wasn't great, 73 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: and therefore the one with her dad wasn't either. Tara 74 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: tells kil Gore she quote had the impression from Anastasia 75 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 2: quite a few times that there had been some very 76 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 2: distinctive abuse, which Tara believed had happened sometime in the past, 77 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: and Tara doesn't know if the alleged abuse was emotional 78 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: or physical. She added, quote, I don't know if it 79 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: was her father. I don't know if it was her stepfather. 80 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 2: Tera says, having been an abused child herself, she believed 81 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: Anastasia obviously lived through something when she was younger. The 82 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 2: conversation eventually turns to Anastasia's clothes. Ta Anastasia would borrow 83 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 2: her sister Fran's clothes a lot and friend was kind 84 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: of a hippie, she says. Anastasia was big on jeans 85 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: and real simple shirts black. She dressed simply, almost boyishly. 86 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 2: Tera says, Anastasia wore Doc Martins mostly. She had sandals Birkenstocks, 87 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: but Tara never saw her wear them, and Tara never 88 00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: saw Anastasia carry a purse. 89 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: Only a'll wallet. 90 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: Kil Gore asks Tara if Justin or Byron owned a firearm. 91 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 2: Tara says Justin said at one point he had a gun, 92 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 2: but he got rid of it a couple of months before, 93 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: and to the best of her knowledge, Byron did not 94 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 2: own a firearm. However, she says his father may have 95 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: owned at least one gun. Then she says, quote, I 96 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 2: wouldn't know. Tara also says if Justin had anything to 97 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: do with Anastasia's death, Byron definitely knew about it. So 98 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 2: Tara gives some interesting and some conflicting information. The question 99 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: is will any of it help in the investigation. The 100 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: other thing that happens in nineteen ninety eight is that 101 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 2: things get a little sticky for Sergeant Kilgore because Bob 102 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: writes several complaints about him to his bosses, and a 103 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 2: formal complaint is filed about kil Gore for allegedly disclosing 104 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 2: an underage witness's name, which resulted in her receiving threats 105 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 2: she would be raped, killed, and her family's house burned down. 106 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: Between late summer of nineteen ninety eight and the summer 107 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety nine, the investigation remains in full swing. 108 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 2: Bob continues emailing kil Gore. Justin's dad hires a psychic. 109 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: There's talk of a Lincoln Prep curse. That's where Anastasia 110 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 2: and Byron both went to school. More people are interviewed, 111 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: and even a Ouiji board is consulted. Jumping forward to 112 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: June twenty fourth, nineteen ninety nine, Bob meets with Kilgore 113 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: at the Sheriff's department. Here's some of their recorded conversation. 114 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 4: God Whitwell speaking, I understand that you have some additional 115 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 4: new information. 116 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 6: That's correct. 117 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 4: As you know in the past that I've given you 118 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 4: a list of vehicles that I've seen in the area. 119 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 2: You might remember from our last episode. Bob is very 120 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 2: fixated on the cars. He says he saw the night 121 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 2: Anastasia was murdered. 122 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 4: Now this is still on the lack of a better word, 123 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 4: the caravan coming down Truman Road as you were standing 124 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 4: at the interest of the Mount Washington's cemetery. 125 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 6: Grant is correct, and as you know, there's already forty 126 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 6: cars on the list. 127 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 2: In the last several months, the list of cars has 128 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: grown from thirty one to forty. Bob says he knows 129 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: with every fiber of his being, the drivers of these 130 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 2: cars have at the very least some knowledge of what 131 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 2: happened to Anastasia and the night she was killed. 132 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 6: And I wanted you to know that I'm so certain about. 133 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 4: That, I'm willing to swear, testify, and take live detector tests, 134 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 4: take hypnosis whatever to confirm that for you, because if 135 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 4: you're not investigating that, you're not doing a job. 136 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 7: Just keep it to the information that you're trying to 137 00:08:58,040 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 7: provide me. 138 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 6: Please, Yes, I also had occasion to speak to a 139 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 6: friend of. 140 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 4: Pages and who is now a very close friend of 141 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 4: Tara McDowell. 142 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 6: And she says that she heard. 143 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 4: Byron talking about the events and chronology of the evening, and. 144 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 6: The story she tells me is that. 145 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 4: Byron, Anastasia, Justin, and Kelly were on Blue Ridge that 146 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 4: evening in front of the cemetery where. 147 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 6: She was found. 148 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 7: Who is this individual Allie? 149 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 8: I don't remember her name. 150 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 6: I'm sorry, it's been months. I can get it for you. 151 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 7: So I've never heard the name of Allie. 152 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 4: She probably would not be willing to come forward and 153 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 4: say these things, but maybe she will. 154 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 7: Anything else. Mister wigbolsphegan. 155 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 6: Out at this time. I reserve the possibility to come 156 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 6: in again. 157 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 4: I certainly feel that this has been a productive meeting 158 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 4: that I've been able to share with you what's been 159 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 4: on my mind for several months. 160 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 2: About three weeks later, on July fifteenth, nineteen ninety nine, 161 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 2: Bob calls Kilgore. He wants to pass on Ali's last name, 162 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 2: but because she was under age at the time, we're 163 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 2: not going to discuss her last. 164 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 5: Name is and she's approximately sixteen years old. 165 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 2: Bob says he recorded an interview with Ali in late 166 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight at the coffee shop where Page worked. 167 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: During that conversation, Ali told Bob. Not long after Anastasia's murder, 168 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 2: Ali and Byron had a conversation about it. 169 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 9: Okay, then, if I'm understanding you correctly, Byron Case told 170 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 9: Ali and some of those details again. 171 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 5: Well, specifically that they Anastasia, Justin, Kelly and Byron were 172 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 5: traveling in a vehicle on Blue Ridge Boulevard, that they 173 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 5: stopped in front of the cemetery, and that that is 174 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 5: where the argument took place. And that's where Anastasia get 175 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 5: out of. 176 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 8: The car at the Lincoln entrance, well on Blue right. 177 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 9: Okay, And do you know why Byron would tell Ali this? 178 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 8: Or does Ali? Did Ali say why? 179 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 5: Allie said that he was just very talkative that she 180 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 5: was there. That No, I don't specifically recall. 181 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 8: Let me ask you this question, who do you think 182 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 8: killed Anastasia. 183 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 5: I don't know. 184 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 8: Do you think Byron did? 185 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 5: I think there were many individual presents and near the 186 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 5: name at the time. I don't know who pulled the trigger. 187 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 5: I don't think. 188 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 8: That person is alive today. But maybe do you think 189 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 8: Justin did it? 190 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 5: I don't know. 191 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 9: I thought you just said you don't think that person 192 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 9: is alive today. 193 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 5: Well, then it might very well have been. 194 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 8: Justin, So I didn't, you know, I don't want to 195 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 8: make sure I didn't misunderstand. 196 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 5: I certainly haven't heard anyone anyone mentioned his name, which 197 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 5: it would be a big clue, and to me personally, 198 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 5: that would mean that more than likely. 199 00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 6: He did not. 200 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 7: Trigger. 201 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 5: Justin Justin did not pull the trigger. 202 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 9: But that's only if somebody else came up and said, well. 203 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 5: At this point, I don't know why anyone would protect him. 204 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 8: Okay, do you honestly think that Justin did it? 205 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 6: Though? 206 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 8: No, I'm asking what you think. 207 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 5: I do not think Justin did it, Okay, I don't 208 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 5: think whoever did it but admit it? 209 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 8: Okay? 210 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 9: But you think it's within this this group that with Danastasian, 211 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 9: Byron and Kelly Moffatt. 212 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 8: And Justin within the group, they were all present when 213 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 8: this happened. Is this what you believe. 214 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 5: Someone who drove their vehicle on the road that evening 215 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 5: that I witnessed pull the trigger. 216 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 9: But you'd think then, though, that Byron and Justin and 217 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 9: everybody was there. I'm trying to get an understanding of 218 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 9: what you're thinking. 219 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 5: What I'm thinking is that if they were not immediately 220 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 5: within I sh uh of the scene, they certainly know 221 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 5: what happened. I'm I'm feeling that Justin knew it too, 222 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 5: that he wanted to fess up and tell the truth, 223 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 5: and that someone decided that would not be a good idea, 224 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 5: and in order to keep him quiet, they shot him. 225 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 5: Why no one's coming forward with this information because they 226 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 5: know that who's ever responsible is not beyond keeping someone 227 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 5: else quiet, even if that means killing them. 228 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 2: I'm despite Bob's speculation, Justin's official cause of death has 229 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 2: always been suicide. 230 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 9: Okay, you've got to You've got a reason then, why 231 00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 9: Justin was killed. 232 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 8: Well, the reason for why Anastasia was killed. 233 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 5: Well, the story that we here repeated that you would 234 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 5: not like to have repeated, that's been discounted for some reason. 235 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 5: Seems to be that there was a game being played 236 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 5: with a gun and that someone unbeknownst to the person 237 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 5: holding the gun, put a bullet in the gun and 238 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 5: that is how she died. 239 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 9: Okay, And this was taking place at Lincoln Cemetery or 240 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 9: nearby or. 241 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 8: Nearby, So then that would mean that the body was moved. 242 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 5: Well, it might mean that I don't think that it 243 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 5: was moved. 244 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 9: But okay, if it wasn't moved, and it would had 245 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 9: have happened at Lincoln Cemetery and not just nearby, well, 246 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 9: I don't know. 247 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 5: I didn't get to benefit by the crime scenean investigation, 248 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 5: but it happened with a number. 249 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 8: Of people nearby. 250 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 9: But you believe then it's an argument based on what 251 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 9: Ali says and the argument between Justin and the stage. 252 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 9: It took place on Blue Ridge near the entrance to 253 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 9: Lincoln Cemetery. 254 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 5: I hear the prevalence of an argument taking place. I 255 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 5: personally don't believe it. I think it's just a convenient one. 256 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 7: Okay. 257 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 9: And in any event, and in order to stop and 258 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 9: play a game, they must have resolved their differences at 259 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 9: least for a moment, would you think. 260 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 5: Actually, I don't know under what circumstances a gun would 261 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 5: have been introduced to the scene. Well, I think Byron's 262 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 5: fearing for his life, and that's why he's not telling 263 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 5: the story. So that's probably why he's not the trigger person, 264 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 5: because in the story that we hear, he's only the 265 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 5: person that puts the bullets in the gun. 266 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 8: And the trigger person is I don't know. 267 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 2: The conversation then turns to Anastatia's close and whether or 268 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 2: not she ever made it home. Remember, Bob believes she 269 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 2: did because he said he found her purse, her blue jeans, 270 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 2: and the washing machine and her underwear soaking in the sink. 271 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 5: I want to know did they come to my house 272 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 5: sometime that evening? I mean, after all, I find that 273 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 5: I have several descriptions of her wearing blue jeans, and 274 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 5: she's not wearing blue jeans that night. I have a 275 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 5: billfold at home. Well, if the billfold is at home, 276 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 5: how does. 277 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 8: It get to my house? 278 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 5: How is it that she's not wearing the same clothes 279 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 5: that four people describe her. 280 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 8: At Did your a wife remember what she was wearing? 281 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 5: Well, my wife thought that she was wearing blue jeans, 282 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 5: but she's. 283 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 9: She was the last one to actually see her out 284 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 9: in your family right. 285 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 5: And also, mister I believe his name was la Page, 286 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 5: who gave a story that he was driving test driving 287 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 5: a car and saw her in the cemetery that evening, 288 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 5: said that she was wearing blue jeans. 289 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 2: So Bob brings up mister Lapage, George Lapage and his 290 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 2: wife actually called sergeant Kilgore three days after Anastasia's body 291 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 2: was found to offer some information. At that time, mister 292 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 2: Lapage told Kilgore that on October twenty second, while he 293 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 2: and his wife were test driving a car in Mount 294 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 2: Washington Cemetery. Remember that's the cemetery Anastasia was dropped off 295 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 2: At around four point thirty, the Lapages saw a white 296 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: female sitting on the steps of the Nelson mausoleum. Mister 297 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 2: Lapage said that the woman approached the car and asked 298 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 2: what time it was. It was around five point thirty 299 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: five forty five. The female then told them she was 300 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 2: waiting for her boyfriend to arrive. Missus Lapage believed the 301 00:18:54,880 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 2: female seemed quote disoriented. In Kilgore's report, the old only 302 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 2: clothing item the Lapages described the female wearing was a 303 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 2: quote brown Swede type jacket, no mention of jeans or shoes. Now, 304 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 2: did Bob talk to the Lapages on his own and 305 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 2: get more information, like Anastasia was wearing blue jeans? If 306 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 2: he did, I don't have any documentation about that. Next, 307 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 2: Bob brings up Glenn Calliver, the caretaker at Mount Washington Cemetery. 308 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 5: Mister Cliver was describing her attire, wearing a corduroy coat 309 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 5: and blue jeans, and suddenly she's not wearing the same clothing. 310 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 2: Remember, mister Cliver saw Anastasia twice that night, once around 311 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 2: five pm and later around seven pm when he ushered 312 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 2: her Justin, Byron and Kelly out of the cemetery because 313 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 2: it was after hours. Two investigators Glenn Cliver never described 314 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 2: Anastasia wearing anything other than a quote dark coat. Bob 315 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 2: spoke with mister Cliver the morning of the twenty third 316 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 2: when he was out looking for Anastasia, and he says 317 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: he talked to him again some time after. Is that 318 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 2: when mister Cliver might have told Bob he saw Anastasia 319 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 2: in blue jeans. Anyway, Kilgore and Bob talk a bit 320 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 2: longer than kil Gore wraps it up. By the way, 321 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 2: I don't have any documentation that says Kilgore ever made 322 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,199 Speaker 2: contact with Ali to check out her story, or that 323 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 2: he circled back to Glenn Calliver or the Lapages to 324 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 2: see what they saw Anastasia wearing that night. But for 325 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:44,719 Speaker 2: almost a year, Sergeant Kilgore has been wanting, waiting to 326 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 2: talk to one person in particular. He's finally going to 327 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: get his chance. 328 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 7: He just got an ugly Byron Chase. 329 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 2: On July twenty ninth, nineteen ninety nine, about twenty one 330 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 2: months after Anastasia was murdered. Byron case is that the 331 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 2: Jackson County Sheriff's Department to speak with Sergeant Kilgore. Byron 332 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 2: now has been granted limited immunity, which means, in exchange 333 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 2: for giving a truthful statement regarding the homicide of Anastasia, 334 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 2: the death of Justin, and the events of October twenty second, 335 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven, the state agrees that his statement will 336 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 2: not be used against him. However, if he knowingly provides 337 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 2: false information to the police, his statement could be used 338 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 2: against him in a prosecution for providing false information or 339 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 2: obstructing justice. It seems for this interview Byron is there alone. 340 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 2: There's no mention in Kilgore's report that he had an 341 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 2: attorney present. 342 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 7: How long have you known? Just a year? Maybeel a 343 00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 7: little bit more? 344 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 2: Aren't By discussing Byron's relationship with Justin and Anastasia. 345 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 4: Were pretty good friends, Oh yeah, absolutely, do you live? 346 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 4: I think yeah, for a while we well after he 347 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 4: and Anastasia met, I moved In. I lived with them 348 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 4: for about three months, I guess with Annastasia also, Yeah, yeah, 349 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 4: all three of us, didn't you at one point in 350 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 4: time dated Anastasia. No, she was a friend of mine 351 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 4: from I think we met in the eighth grade. Yeah, 352 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,479 Speaker 4: we met in the eighth grade, and we didn't get 353 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 4: along initially, but when we went to high school together we. 354 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 7: Got pretty close. So, but you had a d It 355 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 7: was only strictly patronic, but you knew her quite well. 356 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean, you know, we were really close friends. 357 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, we cried on each other's shoulders 358 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 4: quite a bit, you know, I mean it was just, 359 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 4: you know, we could pretty much share anything, and you 360 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 4: and justinretty much the same way. I mean, Justin was 361 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 4: I don't know, Justin had a tendency to be kind 362 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 4: of closed off. 363 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 7: So I mean, you know, when I did get something 364 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 7: out of him. 365 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 4: It was usually after it had been bothering him for 366 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 4: a long time, so he wasn't really all that open. 367 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 4: But you know, he was very honest at least, and 368 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 4: you know that's something that I really respect. I've heard 369 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 4: and been told that you and Justin a little bit 370 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 4: more than just than the time I. 371 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,239 Speaker 7: Knew that was going to come up. 372 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 4: I heard that rumor, and I don't remember who eckered 373 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 4: it from. But no, Justin and I were always very 374 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 4: very good. 375 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 7: Friends, and it was never. 376 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 4: Anything beyond that, the fact that we hung out together 377 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 4: all the time. And I guess some people were thinking 378 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 4: that Justin might have been gay at the coffee shop. 379 00:23:58,080 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 7: They you know, they probably wondered. 380 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 4: I don't. I never heard any talk about it, but 381 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 4: you know, I would probably have assumed the same thing 382 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 4: if I had been an outsider looking in on something 383 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 4: like that. 384 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 7: But you buy noo. 385 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, Kilgore goes back to asking about Anastasia. 386 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 7: You did you always remain with her. 387 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 4: There were a couple of points when we were well, 388 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 4: there are a couple of points when we were living 389 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 4: together when I would kind of get annoyed by the 390 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 4: fact that her and Justin would fight all the time. 391 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 4: And it was mostly because from my perspective, it was 392 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 4: mostly because she wasn't really happy with the way that 393 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 4: Justin treated her. You know, he wasn't giving her enough 394 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 4: attention or you know, or something like that. 395 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 7: So I mean it got a little annoying, and you know, 396 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 7: I would go talk to her, and you know try 397 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 7: and I don't media. 398 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 4: Eighth, so I mean it was never, you know, it 399 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 4: was never to the point that I disliked her. Bring 400 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 4: out of the document that was found in Justin's computer. 401 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 7: Read that at all. 402 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 2: We talked about this document in episode three. Although there's 403 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 2: no name on it, it seems to have been written 404 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 2: by Anastasia, with the following excerpts being potentially the most 405 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 2: telling quote. I don't care what Byron thinks of me. 406 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 2: I never cared what anyone thought of me until I 407 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 2: loved you. Then I only cared what you thought of me. 408 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 2: Byron can go fuck himself for all I care. The 409 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 2: only person's opinion I care about is yours, So fuck me. 410 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 2: You and Byron deserve each other because that seems to 411 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 2: be the one you want, someone who shares your brain 412 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 2: and your thinking, and so fuck me. 413 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 7: That sounds the kind of stature meaning in there. That 414 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 7: was weird. I'd never seen that before. Sounds like she's 415 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 7: pretty angry on that. Yeah, sounds like she's pretty. 416 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 8: Angry in you. 417 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 7: And I'm trying to. 418 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 8: Think what that was. 419 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 7: All that was about. According to the. 420 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 4: Kid peaks in the computer on that, it's a letter 421 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 4: was a creator and his document was created on October twenty, 422 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 4: nineteen ninety seven. Keep in mind the last time you 423 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 4: saw her was October twenty second. 424 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 7: This was well, it was. It was last saved on 425 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 7: October twenty first. I didn't see ninety as long and 426 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 7: was taken off. 427 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 4: But jeff right, I'm trying to think of when she 428 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 4: would have justin didn't have email or anything, so I'm 429 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 4: trying to think of when she would have been at 430 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 4: his place to write that. 431 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 7: I'm going to assume that his computer will be correct. 432 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 7: I don't remember. I'm pretty sure it did. Why would 433 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 7: she be so angry as you were you having problems 434 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 7: with Anastasia. No, but when she got mad, she got 435 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 7: mad at everybody. 436 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 2: The conversation then turns to clothes and what everyone had 437 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 2: on the night of October twenty seconds. 438 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 7: Do you think you remember what she was wearing? 439 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 4: I think, if I remember correctly, that she had on jeans, 440 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 4: and it's because she usually wore jeans, and I don't remember. 441 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 7: Honestly, don't remember. 442 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 4: It may have been a T shirt, it may have 443 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 4: been a long sleeve shirt. I'm pretty sure it was gray, 444 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 4: though I seen to remember her having like a gray 445 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 4: T shirt style thing with like a V neck or something. 446 00:27:54,920 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 4: But I don't remember coat jacket. I don't even remember 447 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 4: if it was cold enough for one, I don't think. 448 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 7: So I might be wrong on that. Again, you probably 449 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 7: don't remember what you were wearing. 450 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 4: No, uh, well, knowing Justin, he had like a uniform 451 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,959 Speaker 4: kind of that he wore, so it was probably like, 452 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 4: you know, khaki pants and black T shirt and her 453 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 4: white T shirt and a black like zipa jacket pants. 454 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 2: Byron takes Kilgore through that day. He says they picked 455 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,239 Speaker 2: up Kelly around four, stopped to get a drink at 456 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 2: the gas station near her house in Lenexa. By the way, 457 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 2: this is the first time Byron is saying they stopped 458 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 2: at a gas station. Then Byron says they went back 459 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 2: to Justin's condo. Anastasia called. She and Justin talked for 460 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 2: a while, arguing about their relationship. Finally just agreed to 461 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 2: pick her up at the Dairy Queen. And when they 462 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 2: got there, Anastasia was not happy. 463 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 7: That you know what, I said hello. She didn't say 464 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 7: hello back, but you know that was just because she 465 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 7: was like just consumed buyer, you know, being angry. So 466 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 7: you got in the car. What was the seating arrangement? 467 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 4: Anastasia was in front of me, I was in the 468 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 4: rear seat, and Kelly was sitting on my left behind. 469 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 3: Justin okay, So Anastasia was in the right front, you 470 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 3: were in the right rear, Kelly Moffatt left rear right 471 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 3: jested driving okay. 472 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 2: Byron says they went across the street to Mount Washington 473 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 2: Cemetery as soon as they saw the caretaker they left. 474 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 2: Kilgur then asks Byron to look at a map and 475 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 2: point out where they were exactly and where they went 476 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 2: after Mount Washington. Byron struggles a bit with the map up, 477 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 2: trying to pinpoint what roads they took before ending up 478 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 2: on Truman Road, near the adult bookstore, gas stations and 479 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 2: the I four thirty five, where he says Anastasia got 480 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 2: out of the car. Kilgore asks if Byron had never 481 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 2: been to Lincoln Cemetery before. Byron says he didn't know 482 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 2: where Lincoln Cemetery was until one of their friends and 483 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 2: a Huntsecker showed him. 484 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 7: No, I'll go there after anastasia body was found. 485 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 4: I didn't really want to. I mean it just kind 486 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 4: of as you don't creep me out. 487 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 7: No, I didn't know you've ever been there. Well, yeah, 488 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 7: I mean we've dot it. 489 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 4: That night when Anna and I month ago, or I 490 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 4: mean a month after she died. I think it might 491 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 4: have been a couple of months because I had no 492 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 4: idea where it was, and you know, people were saying 493 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 4: Lincoln Cemetery where he was That. 494 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 2: Back to the night of the twenty second Byron says, 495 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 2: after Anastasia got out of the car on Truman Road 496 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 2: at the four thirty five, they drove off and where 497 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 2: you go. 498 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 4: We went back to Justin's condo, and I guess we're 499 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 4: going to just hang out there for a little bit 500 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 4: because Kelly had some time to kill before she had. 501 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 7: To be home. 502 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 4: So we went there and Justin wasn't saying anything, and 503 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 4: he was just kind of like sitting in his chair 504 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 4: quietly when we got to the condo, and so Kelly 505 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 4: and I played Nintendo for a little bit, you know, 506 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 4: just like kind of waiting for him to say something, 507 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 4: and you know, nothing was said. And then every now 508 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 4: and again we'd look over the clock to see if 509 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 4: it was time to lead yet. And because I think 510 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 4: Kelly had to be home by nine. 511 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 2: Byron says, they took Kelly home, and while they were there, 512 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 2: Justin called Anastasia's house. That's when they learned she hadn't 513 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 2: made it home yet. At that point, Byron says, Justin 514 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 2: started getting worried about it. 515 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 4: How much time it left and she got out of 516 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 4: the car. We primarily Justin's house for about a half 517 00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 4: hour so, and then right to Kelly's took about a 518 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 4: half an hour, I guess, I don't even probably twenty 519 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 4: minutes to get back Tom Independence or or something like that. 520 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 4: I know, I think it was probably I think he 521 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 4: called a little bit before nine point thirty when he 522 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 4: called on the stage's house, I think, And so about 523 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 4: hour hour and a half two hours, probably more like 524 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 4: an hour hour and a half to two hours. 525 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 7: I guess. 526 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 3: Was it dark when you dropped her off or when 527 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 3: she got out of the car. Oh yeah, I mean 528 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 3: it was dark when we were at the cemetery, So 529 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 3: so I'm understanding craigly. Then she got out of a 530 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 3: car for thirty five in treatment an hour and a 531 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 3: half or so. As a last Justin calls home. 532 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 7: She's not there. She only lived a couple of miles 533 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 7: down the road. 534 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 6: Right. 535 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 4: Nobody said, well, gee, I wonder where she went or 536 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 4: where she's at, or what had happened to the Well, 537 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 4: I know that Kelly was worried about her, and I was, 538 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 4: you know, once he called and said she's not home yet, 539 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 4: we all just kind of sat there. 540 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 7: And nobody said, well, gee, maybe we ought to go look, No, 541 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 7: nothing like that. 542 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 4: We ought to make a few calls through her friends 543 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 4: and see where she's at. She called somebody she is, 544 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 4: she's somewhere now. 545 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 7: We just called. 546 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 4: I wonder if she might be dead? Well, we didn't 547 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 4: certainly didn't think that. I let me asked to do 548 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 4: Did you. 549 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 7: Go anywhere else other than take Kelly home? 550 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 8: No? 551 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 4: I mean we went to Justin's and to Kelly's and 552 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 4: the didn't make any stuff. No, didn't stop buying Para 553 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,959 Speaker 4: McDowell's a fart. Oh I'm sorry, Yes, yes we did. 554 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 4: We went Actually, we went by Terror's apartment because Rom 555 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 4: Abraham needed some stuff. They had just broken up, like 556 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 4: how too long before, and Abraham wanted like the stuff 557 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 4: that he had left over at her apartment. So we 558 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 4: stopped buy a rick her place, and it was pretty, 559 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 4: as I recall. 560 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,479 Speaker 7: We just picked up the bag and left and then 561 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 7: drove over to Abraham's house and dropped it off, and. 562 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 4: We stayed and talked with him for a while. But 563 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 4: we need to get Kelly back, so we didn't spend 564 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 4: a lot of time there. 565 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 7: Okay, where'd you go first? We went to Tarra's first 566 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 7: to pick up the stuff the step. 567 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 2: So this is different from what Byron and Kelly had 568 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 2: originally said, which was that once they were back at Justin's, 569 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 2: Byron called Abraham, who had paged him. Then they went 570 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 2: to Abraham's. Then they took Kelly home. Then Byron and 571 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 2: Justin went to Terra's. Now Byron is saying that they 572 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,919 Speaker 2: went to Terra's first, then to Abraham's, then they took 573 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 2: Kelly home, but Tara said Kelly wasn't with them, So 574 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 2: which is it? Kilgore asks Byron the next time he 575 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 2: spoke to anyone. 576 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 4: The next morning, at like nine something, I got a 577 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 4: phone call and I woke up to and it was 578 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 4: Justin on the phone. 579 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 7: You didn't talk to Kelly later on? 580 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 6: No? 581 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 4: I mean I no, she was in bed, and you know, 582 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 4: like I said, I'm pretty sure she had school that day, 583 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 4: Are you sure of that? 584 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 7: No? I don't even remember what day of the week. 585 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 7: It was on Oh that was the one saying okay 586 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 7: that she probably had school. But no, I mean, I 587 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,399 Speaker 7: didn't even think to call her. I mean, like I said, 588 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 7: I was still asleep. 589 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 2: This is also different, at least according to Kelly. She 590 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 2: said she paged Byron between eleven PM and midnight. Byron 591 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 2: called her back and they talked for a while. 592 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 7: But anyway, we. 593 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 4: See what I find, you know, difficult to believe at 594 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 4: this point about is that you've said that you know, 595 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,720 Speaker 4: Justin were inseparable, she were the best of friends. 596 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,359 Speaker 7: And here is his girlfriend bailed. 597 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 4: Out of the car, and in the next days you 598 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 4: hear everybody here is that she's been murdered Lincoln Cemetery, 599 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 4: just probably one hundred and. 600 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 7: Fifty yards or so away from she exited the car 601 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 7: for thirty five and tournament. Justin calls you about nine 602 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 7: nine thirty in the morning, and probably thirty minutes to 603 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,760 Speaker 7: an hour later he's over in can just buying a shotgun. 604 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 3: Two days later he's found he's head blown off. All 605 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 3: of this is pretty important stuff in a person's life. 606 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 3: I would say you were one of the last ones 607 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 3: to see Anna Stadium. You were the last one to 608 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 3: talk to fiant of his friends or excuse he was 609 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 3: the last one to talk to you, being of the 610 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 3: friends group, naturally had to talk to somebody else by 611 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:29,359 Speaker 3: a shot. 612 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 7: Again, this type of stuff. 613 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 4: I kind it hard to believe that he didn't share 614 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 4: some of this with you, some of what just the 615 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 4: fact that it was nine o'clock in the morning. 616 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,839 Speaker 7: Maybe Justin already knew she was dead, but it wasn't 617 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 7: even released, like as far as I know it did 618 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 7: Justin do you think he did? 619 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:46,800 Speaker 4: He think he maybe he went out and looked for 620 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 4: I can't imagine. I mean, unless it had been pre 621 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 4: planned or something. 622 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 7: Nobody know always where an stage is at. Justin knows 623 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 7: that she's not home, right, Okay, had just In that 624 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 7: intensitive and uncaring an individual that he wouldn't go look 625 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 7: for a girl that he's known for how long? Remember 626 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 7: how long they did it? 627 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 4: Then he's been intimate with that, he's obviously had feelings for. 628 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 4: And this is where I get a little bit to 629 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,439 Speaker 4: the point where I have problems that Justin wouldn't share 630 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 4: something with you. Yeah, and at nine o'clock he had 631 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 4: to be knowing that he was going to go buy 632 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 4: a shotgun and that subsequently he was going to commit suicide. 633 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 4: He had to know that when he talked to you, 634 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 4: and as close and inseparable as you guys are, I 635 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 4: find it hard to believe that he didn't say something. Well, 636 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 4: and that's what I've been trying to, like justify for 637 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 4: a really long time, is you know, if we were 638 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 4: so close, then why if he had anything to do 639 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,399 Speaker 4: with it, why didn't he tell him? 640 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 7: Did just to tell you anything about in the stage 641 00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 7: of being did? 642 00:37:58,800 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 6: No? 643 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 7: Do you know if Justin was present when Anastasia was killed? 644 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 7: I don't know. 645 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 4: You have nothing to fear, Okay, I mean, you have 646 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 4: no reason to not tell me the truth, right yim. 647 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 7: I'm not going to jump up and arrest you. Are 648 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 7: you being honest and truthful with me? By him? Absolutely? 649 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 4: And Justin didn't give any indication that he was going 650 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 4: to go buy a shot again and go Floyd's head. 651 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 6: No. 652 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 4: I mean if he had, I would have, you know, 653 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 4: immediately gone over there, you know, to stop him. There's 654 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 4: an individual it says they're positive that they saw in 655 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,439 Speaker 4: your car on Truman Road had approximately eleven forty five 656 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 4: on October twenty second, the night that Anastasia was killed 657 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 4: web October twenty second. 658 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 7: That's when you picked up Fantastasia, the dairy queen. She 659 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 7: got out of the car for thirty five and Truman 660 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 7: and here at eleven forty five at night, I had 661 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 7: an individual wares. So your car license plates morbid right 662 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 7: on Truman Road that night. 663 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 2: Sergeant Kilgore just told Byron that someone reported seeing his 664 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,359 Speaker 2: car with his morbid license plates driving down Truman Road 665 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 2: around eleven forty five the night Anastasia was murdered. 666 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 7: That night, my car was parked in my mom's place. 667 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 2: Remember in the last episode, Byron's lawyer said his car 668 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,320 Speaker 2: was in the shop the night Anastasia was murdered. So 669 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 2: on the night of October twenty second, was Byron's car 670 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 2: at the shop, at his mom's or on Truman Road. 671 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 7: Why the way did you guys go back out and 672 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 7: work brand and stead do that night? 673 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:57,320 Speaker 8: No? 674 00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 7: I stayed home and my mom was there. 675 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 4: She knows that, Like you know, if I come in, 676 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 4: I mean she would have heard me lead again, Okay, 677 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 4: I was there when I was at my mom's house. 678 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 7: He didn't go out, No, he didn't. 679 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 8: Go back out. 680 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 7: More of it is not in common license plate. Yeah, 681 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,759 Speaker 7: I don't know it. Just didn't go back out and 682 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 7: look for nd stage that night. 683 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 4: As far as I know he I mean, I only 684 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 4: know what he told me, and he said that he 685 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 4: was going how to sleep. 686 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 7: Well that was all I mean, that was the only 687 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:26,320 Speaker 7: conversation that we have. 688 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 3: But then you would agree with me then when you 689 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,839 Speaker 3: spoke with him at nine or nine thirty that morning, 690 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 3: he knew what he was going to do. 691 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 7: He must have. You were a reasonably intelligent young man. 692 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 7: I mean, what conclusion would you draw? 693 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 6: You know? He must have. 694 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 7: Yeah, he did know that. And you being the last 695 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 7: person that I know that he. 696 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 4: Talked to in his in his group of his friends, 697 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 4: of his associates, that he personally knew, You're the last. 698 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:57,919 Speaker 7: One, and you and him were your word inseparable. I think, 699 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 7: what did he tell you? I'm sure that that's all 700 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:02,359 Speaker 7: that he said. 701 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 4: And I'm one positive that all that he said to 702 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 4: me was I in troubles sleeping last night, and you know, 703 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 4: I told him that I was tired and wanted to 704 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 4: go back to. 705 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 7: Sleep, and we agreed to talk later. 706 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 3: Did justin give you any indication prior to that phone 707 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 3: call that he was going to commit suicide. 708 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 7: No, I mean I had no idea. I assumed if 709 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,280 Speaker 7: anything that, you know, after all of this happened. 710 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 4: You know, Kelly and I were kind of doubting ourselves 711 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,919 Speaker 4: even you know, in the friendship that we had, thinking 712 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 4: that maybe he might have done it, and you know, 713 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 4: if he did, we kind of we tried to hypothesize, 714 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,720 Speaker 4: like where he would be, what he would be doing. 715 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 7: And why would he kill Anastation exactly? 716 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 6: And that. 717 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,320 Speaker 3: He's as far as I know, he had no reason 718 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 3: to why would he kill himself? 719 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I don't have any idea. Is there 720 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 7: another person involved with this that you were afraid of? Involved? 721 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 7: Mean that somebody else killed Anastasian and that justin knew it. 722 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 7: I can't imagine. And so this his whole suicide is 723 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,439 Speaker 7: just a staged because maybe he was going to talk 724 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,919 Speaker 7: talk about that he knew who killed her. I'm looking 725 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:18,720 Speaker 7: for an answer. 726 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 4: I can't believe that that is possible because I mean, 727 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,399 Speaker 4: like I said, we were I mean just the four 728 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,759 Speaker 4: of us were best friends and. 729 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:32,320 Speaker 7: We never really. 730 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 6: Did you guys ever play with guns? 731 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 3: Were you up in that cemetery playing with a gun 732 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:44,839 Speaker 3: and something happened no, seriously, now, seriously, honestly, honestly, did 733 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:46,920 Speaker 3: you go out and look for Anastasia that night? 734 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,439 Speaker 7: Do you know of anybody that did? Nobody except her dad? 735 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 7: What do you know about that? What did you talk 736 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:55,839 Speaker 7: to him? 737 00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 4: I've talked to him a couple of times, once at 738 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 4: the funeral, and I think I ran into a must 739 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:02,800 Speaker 4: person that I don't really remember. 740 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,359 Speaker 3: If you heard from anybody that your car was seen. 741 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 3: I was near the area of Lincoln Cemetery the night 742 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 3: that Anastasia was killed. Just to you, I haven't heard 743 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 3: anything about that, and you are telling me now that 744 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,000 Speaker 3: you were not there. 745 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 4: Absolutely, I was in Justin's car the whole night, and 746 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 4: I don't even think I drove my card all that day. 747 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:32,759 Speaker 3: If you had to, if you had to provide me 748 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,400 Speaker 3: with the name of who might know what happened, who 749 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 3: would that be? Who would Anastasia turned to when she 750 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:40,600 Speaker 3: exited that vehicle? 751 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 7: Her dad? I mean, that's the only person that I 752 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 7: can think of. 753 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 2: Sergeant Kilgore presses Byron, did you. 754 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 7: Kill Anna Stasian? Did you kill Anastasian? 755 00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:57,840 Speaker 8: No? 756 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 7: Sure, there's no way that your car could have. 757 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 3: Been out in that area the night that she was 758 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 3: killed October twenty second, right, nineteen ninety seven. There's no 759 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 3: no way your car could have been There's no way 760 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 3: it was parked to my mom's apartment. Or you have 761 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 3: no reason to lie to me, do you? 762 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 8: No, there's a. 763 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:21,359 Speaker 7: You can sit here. 764 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 3: You can even tell me that you were present, and 765 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 3: you still would not be any trouble, in any trouble 766 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 3: with the law. 767 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 7: You understand that, don't you. 768 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 8: Yeah, based on the. 769 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:32,719 Speaker 7: Letter from our prosecutor. 770 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 3: Right, so you could sit there and tell me you 771 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 3: were there and you know you wouldn't get in any trouble, right, right, 772 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,120 Speaker 3: So you have no reason to lie. 773 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 7: I mean you have no reason to fear the legal 774 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 7: system at this point in time. 775 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 6: Is this correct? Yeah? 776 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 2: That's right. 777 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,000 Speaker 3: Were you present when Anna Stasia was killed? Do you 778 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 3: know who killed Anna Stationian? 779 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:48,640 Speaker 6: No? 780 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 7: Are you telling me the truth? 781 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:51,799 Speaker 5: Yes? 782 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,600 Speaker 1: They go off tape for a few moments, then come 783 00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:57,120 Speaker 1: right back. 784 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,760 Speaker 4: Would you be willing to take a life victor tests 785 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,880 Speaker 4: to verify what you and I have talked about today? 786 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:10,239 Speaker 7: Well? I would say yes, but you know I know 787 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 7: the polygraph start. We don't use the polygraph. 788 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 8: What do you use? 789 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,399 Speaker 7: We use the computer? Voice dressed and analyzer. I would 790 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:19,000 Speaker 7: not wrong with that. 791 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,879 Speaker 4: Okay, we can't do it today, So could I get 792 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 4: with you in the mid air future and Italians agreeable? 793 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 4: That would accommodate both our schedules. Yeah, yeah, well not Yeah, 794 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,239 Speaker 4: I guess I need a duel, better commitment than that 795 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,239 Speaker 4: assurance in your voice. Yeah, I mean I don't want 796 00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 4: to spend get maybe here to do that. That's I mean, 797 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:43,400 Speaker 4: you're telling me the truth absolubly. 798 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:47,759 Speaker 1: The interview ends soon after. 799 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 2: So some of Byron's story has definitely changed since he 800 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 2: first told it on October twenty fourth, nineteen ninety seven. 801 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,440 Speaker 2: Is it because he's hiding something or is it because 802 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 2: it's been almost two years and time has warped his memory. 803 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,799 Speaker 1: Either way, on the whole. 804 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 2: Byron's story has pretty much stayed the same. On November 805 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,799 Speaker 2: twenty fourth, nineteen ninety nine, Bob and kill Gore speak again. 806 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 2: It's pretty contentious right off the bat. Bob wants information 807 00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 2: about the case and kill Gore isn't giving it up. 808 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,719 Speaker 4: Because this investigation has taken two years, I've granted you 809 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:36,520 Speaker 4: some leadway and it's in looking at this from my perspective, 810 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,959 Speaker 4: you must know that I'm very frustrated at what appears as. 811 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,480 Speaker 6: A parent progress in this case, and. 812 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,120 Speaker 7: I think it's about. 813 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:52,960 Speaker 6: Time that you confirm for me that you're actually doing 814 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:53,600 Speaker 6: something with this. 815 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 4: Do you have any more information you'd like to add 816 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:12,440 Speaker 4: to this today? Do you have any more information you 817 00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 4: like to add to this today? Yes, I'm aware of 818 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:27,120 Speaker 4: friction within this department that makes me suspect that you 819 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:32,439 Speaker 4: have reason not to share the information that you've gained 820 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 4: through your investigation with any other members of this office. 821 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 7: Excuse me, I miss something? 822 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:45,360 Speaker 4: Well, are you saying that I'm withholding information from my superiors. 823 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:45,719 Speaker 7: Or my department? 824 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,040 Speaker 6: Yeah, that would be what I perceive. 825 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,440 Speaker 8: Either that, or do you have a specific example. 826 00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:59,400 Speaker 4: A specific example would be Captain Phillips making statements that 827 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 4: this case is more than likely a murders suicide, while 828 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:10,640 Speaker 4: you are saying no suspects have been released from suspicion 829 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,200 Speaker 4: or no one has been cleared, and he seems to 830 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:20,320 Speaker 4: have a direct linkage to my daughter's boyfriend who is 831 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:26,319 Speaker 4: also found dead. Now I must ask you, is justin 832 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,719 Speaker 4: a more than likely suspect a primary suspect in this case? 833 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,120 Speaker 7: Just as you prepare many scenarios. 834 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,840 Speaker 8: Of what may or may not have happened, and so 835 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,200 Speaker 8: do we, and. 836 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:39,200 Speaker 7: That would be one of them. 837 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,439 Speaker 4: Then I'm going to draw the conclusion that the people 838 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 4: that were with her that evening are still suspects. Why 839 00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:53,640 Speaker 4: as Byray Case was given immunity from prosecution in exchange 840 00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,200 Speaker 4: for information. 841 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,759 Speaker 7: That he may be with Holy and even with that, 842 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:00,600 Speaker 7: he stayed with the same. 843 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,759 Speaker 4: Circumstances that he started out with from the beginning of 844 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:10,759 Speaker 4: this investigations. Because he doesn't have any immunity from the 845 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 4: people on that list, We're going to see that their 846 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:19,600 Speaker 4: justice is done if he says anything, and by this 847 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:26,800 Speaker 4: department's track record on protecting witnesses, I'd say that he wasn't. Toby, 848 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,400 Speaker 4: nor am I going to sit here while you criticize. 849 00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,320 Speaker 4: You've done that both publicly and nationwide and worldwide. What 850 00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,360 Speaker 4: avenue would you like me to pursue to get Byron 851 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:41,160 Speaker 4: Case to change his story? Well, he was granted immunity 852 00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,600 Speaker 4: from prosecution. Immunity doesn't mean anything in this case, because 853 00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,279 Speaker 4: it means a great deal. Did he take your light 854 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:54,399 Speaker 4: detected testment? I didn't think so he didn't refuse to. Yeah, right, 855 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,640 Speaker 4: of course he wouldn't. It's a good a liar maybe 856 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,440 Speaker 4: give him too much credit. Well, maybe I don't give 857 00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,520 Speaker 4: you enough. I'm sorry, But from my perspective, you'll have 858 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,760 Speaker 4: to understand I don't see anything happening in this case 859 00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,520 Speaker 4: except a lot of these people. 860 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,920 Speaker 2: Look, it's easy to say Bob's behavior during the investigation 861 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,040 Speaker 2: is outrageous, but we can't forget that he is a 862 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:23,080 Speaker 2: grieving father. 863 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:24,800 Speaker 1: Desperate for answers. 864 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,440 Speaker 2: For almost two years, he's been waiting for kil Gore 865 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:32,359 Speaker 2: to find and arrest the person responsible for killing his daughter. 866 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,839 Speaker 2: Maybe some of what Bob brings kill Gore is worth 867 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,680 Speaker 2: following up on. Maybe Bob gets in his own way 868 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,960 Speaker 2: and causes the opposite effect, since kill Gore's told him 869 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:49,280 Speaker 2: he hasn't been ruled out as a suspect. Maybe he's overcompensating. 870 00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,880 Speaker 2: But I try to imagine my own mom in this 871 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,279 Speaker 2: very situation. I think she would have acted with the 872 00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,920 Speaker 2: same determination as Bob. She also would have launched her 873 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,480 Speaker 2: own investigation, moved heaven and earth, basically stopped at nothing 874 00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,240 Speaker 2: until the killer was tracked down and brought to justice. 875 00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:11,759 Speaker 2: So I think Bob does deserve some leeway here. 876 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:13,480 Speaker 1: Anyway. 877 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:19,399 Speaker 2: On September twenty one, two thousand, almost three years after 878 00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:20,840 Speaker 2: Anastasia was murdered. 879 00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,839 Speaker 7: Do you know how Anastasia died? 880 00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:24,239 Speaker 8: Yes? 881 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,000 Speaker 1: Next time on The Real Killer. 882 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:33,040 Speaker 7: Where'd you shoot her? 883 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:33,200 Speaker 6: At? 884 00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,800 Speaker 1: And had an old witness a new story? 885 00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,440 Speaker 7: Did she's pretty close to the car? How did she 886 00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,359 Speaker 7: fall well? 887 00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,560 Speaker 6: Back? Well, it was like kind of like an explosion. 888 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:49,160 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's just I mean, it just knocked her backwards 889 00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:50,160 Speaker 7: the whole thing. 890 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,440 Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 891 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:08,080 Speaker 2: those of the individuals participating in the podcast. If you, 892 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,520 Speaker 2: or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis, 893 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:17,480 Speaker 2: please no help is available. Call or text nine eight 894 00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:21,360 Speaker 2: eight or chat online at the Suicide and Crisis Lifelines 895 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:27,680 Speaker 2: website at nine eight eight lifeline dot org. To see photos, maps, 896 00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,040 Speaker 2: and documents related to this season's story, follow The Real 897 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:36,080 Speaker 2: Killer podcast on Instagram and at trk podcast on TikTok. 898 00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:44,640 Speaker 2: The Real Killer is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, 899 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:49,880 Speaker 2: hosted by me Leah Rothman Executive producers Leah Rothman and 900 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:51,120 Speaker 2: Elisa Rosen. 901 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:52,080 Speaker 1: For AYR Media. 902 00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:57,840 Speaker 2: Written by Leah Rothman, editing and sound design by Cameron Taggi, 903 00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:03,840 Speaker 2: mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggi. Production coordinator Andy Levine, 904 00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:11,520 Speaker 2: audio engineer Justin Longerbeam studio engineer Graham Gibson. Legal counsel 905 00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:17,560 Speaker 2: for AYR Media, Gianni Douglas, Executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya 906 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:18,000 Speaker 2: Howard