1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: I want to wake up more happy and depressed. I 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: want to enjoy life. I'm not the final form of myself. 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: I don't know what that's going to be. He's one 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: of the most influential voices in morning radio. Yes the 5 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: world most Dangerous Morning Shot to Breakfast Club. Charlemagne's like, gosh, 6 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: I had no idea who I was. There was this 7 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: character that have been created named Charlamagne. I'm like, I 8 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 1: don't know who this person is. At some point I 9 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: remember saying to myself, well, what's wrong meedd? 10 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 2: I thought it was okay, Hey everyone, I've got some 11 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: huge news to share with you. In the last ninety days, 12 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 2: seventy nine point four percent of our audience came from 13 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: viewers and listeners that are not subscribed to this channel. 14 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 2: There's research that shows that if you want to create 15 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: a habit, make it easy to access. By hitting the 16 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 2: subscribe button, you're creating a habit of learning how to 17 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: be happier, healthier, and more healed. This would also mean 18 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: the absolute world to me and help us make better, bigger, 19 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 2: brighter content for you in the world. Subscribe right now. 20 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 3: The number one health and wellness podcast. 21 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: Jay Sheet, Jay shedny Y everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, 22 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. 23 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 2: I'm so grateful that you're lending me your eyes and 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 2: your ears for this time, investing in your growth. And 25 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 2: today's guest is someone who I'm so grateful to because 26 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 2: he came on the show back five years ago when 27 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 2: we were just starting out. The platform was not established, 28 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: and I'd reached out to him and I said, hey, 29 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 2: I'd love to interview you. He came on as one 30 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: of our earliest guests, did me a massive favor. Over 31 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 2: the last few years, I've been on his incredible show, 32 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: The Breakfast Club so many times now. Some of my 33 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 2: favorite conversations brings out a different side of me. I 34 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: get to have an honest, vulnerable, truthful, reflective conversation. And 35 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: he's a New York Times bestseller and his new book 36 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: is out right now. It's called Get Honest or Die Lying. 37 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 2: Why small talk sucks. I'm talking about the One, the Only, Charlemagne, 38 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: the God Charlemagne. It is so great to have you 39 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: back on Purpose and honestly, man, the friendship and the 40 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: genuine connection that we've built over the last few years 41 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 2: has been a real honor for me. And as I said, 42 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: I'm very grateful to you because you believed in me 43 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 2: when I was just starting out and it really meant 44 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: a lot to me and still does today. 45 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 3: Man, thank you for that. I received that. 46 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: And to see you grow into you know, your purpose, 47 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: you know, and see you have this massive platform has 48 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: been amazing to watch. 49 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 3: So thank you. 50 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: I'm happy to be here, happy to be here with 51 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: one of my favorite people and on one of my 52 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: favorite podcasts. 53 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: Thank you man. 54 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 3: Thank you. 55 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 2: Well, let's dat straight into it, because you put this 56 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 2: book out and I think it's really true to the 57 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: times that we live in. I think we're living in 58 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 2: times that are defined by quarrel, defined by hypocrisy, defined 59 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: by lack of self awareness, defined by gossip. And here's 60 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,839 Speaker 2: a book talking about all of that. And I wanted 61 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: to start off simply by asking you, why have you 62 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 2: built up such an animosity towards small talk? Where does 63 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 2: that come from? 64 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 3: Well? 65 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: Number one, I hate small talk, you know, just on 66 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: the literal level. Right when somebody sees you and they 67 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: try to, you know, make conversation and they're not really 68 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: talking about anything, and it's just like, you know, you 69 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: and this person are in this unique moment in time 70 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: where y'all get to share space and nobody is saying 71 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: anything that is annoying to me, And it's annoying to 72 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 1: the point where I'm like, I would rather just tell 73 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: the person like, Oh, we don't have to do this. 74 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: We can be on our phones, we can be reading 75 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: the book, we can sit here in silence, like you 76 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: don't have to try, you know, to make conversation. 77 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 3: But then on a. 78 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: More macro level, I feel like we're having too much 79 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: small talk. You know, we're having too many micro conversations. 80 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: We're taking these micros and making them macros. Like the 81 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: things that people you know, get online and discuss and 82 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: debate about and argue about. 83 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 3: Over and over and over and over. 84 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: And the biggest scheme of things mean nothing. And that's 85 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: why things just come and go in this era. Every 86 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: day you get online and you know, it looks like 87 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: there's a conversation that's the biggest thing in the world. 88 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: Wait three hours, Wait four hours, wait twelve hours, it'll 89 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: be completely gone and it'll be like, well, damn, I 90 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: thought everybody was so concerned about this, you know, two 91 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: days ago. So I just have a problem with everything 92 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: being so macro that shouldn't be nowadays, and the things 93 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: that we should be discussing, like the big macro conversations, 94 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: we have a way of making those so micro and 95 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: that's the background noise. That's why, even like you know, 96 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: on Breakfast Club or a my podcast Brilliant Idiots, when 97 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: we do discuss things right that might be rooted in 98 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: pop culture, I'm always trying to see, like, what's the 99 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: bigger conversation that we can be having behind this. It 100 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: can't just be that y'all think this person is a 101 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: terrible person, that was a bad tweet. Like what's the 102 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: psychology or what's the thing that we can you know, 103 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: discuss that people are gonna actually learn from. 104 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 3: That's what I I want to do. 105 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: And how do you break that cycle? Let's say you 106 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 2: bump into someone that you haven't seen for a bit, 107 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 2: and I think a lot of people struggle with this. 108 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: She's at a party an event in the corridor and 109 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: you go, hey, how's going, Oh yeah good, yeah, cool, 110 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 2: and you know you're not listening. You know, there's no 111 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 2: real thing. How do you break that? If you can? 112 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 2: So one example is you say, look, we don't have 113 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: to do this? How do you break it in a 114 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 2: positive sense? Like how even people with their friends, with 115 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: their family or our family dinner and everyone's talking about whatever, 116 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 2: how do you actually break that and elevate that, Like 117 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:31,239 Speaker 2: what's a healthy way. 118 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: Tell them be honest about what you're feeling in that moment, Like, Yo, 119 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: we ain't talking about nothing right now. I'd be like, yo, 120 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: well who's going to start the conversation? Throw something on 121 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: the table? Like literally, that's what this book is. This 122 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: book is literally just a series of topics that I 123 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: feel like, you know, you could just throw in at 124 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: a lunch throwing at a dinner table, you know, throwing 125 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: if you're just sitting around on a plane with somebody 126 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: and you want to have a conversation but you can't, 127 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: Like we make this a lot more difficult than we 128 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: need to, and it takes is for somebody to break 129 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: the ice. That's all you're literally waiting for, and you're 130 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: sitting at it. You know, you're sitting around with somebody. 131 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: You're just like I want to talk, but I just 132 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: don't know what to say, and you're thinking, should I 133 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: bother this person? Should I not bother this person? Does 134 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: this person want to be bothered. Does this person want 135 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: to talk? Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Maybe that's 136 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: a question, right, You can ask them, like you feel 137 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: like having a conversation. If that person says no, respect that, 138 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: don't ask them that, hoping that they say yes. But 139 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: if they say no, you're still going to force them 140 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: to have the conversation. Like sometimes you should just ask 141 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: a person like, yo, you got time to talk? How 142 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: often do you get that? 143 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 3: Jay? Exactly? 144 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: People just run up to you and they just throw 145 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: their stuff on you all the time, instead of saying, yo, Jay, 146 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: you got time to speak right now? And if you 147 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: say not, at the moment they're offended. You may not 148 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: want to offend them, so you take time to have 149 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: this meaningless conversation, this small talk. You're just telling them yeah, 150 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: just because you don't want to offend them. But then 151 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: you're not even really paying attention. So nobody's doing it. 152 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: We're not doing each other any favors about doing so 153 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: just be honest about what you're feeling in that moment. 154 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like the reason you pointed out there, 155 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: the reason why so many of us are struggling to 156 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: be honest with people is because people are offended by honesty, 157 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: even if it's genuine, and even if it's thoughtful, like 158 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 2: you just said, Like if I asked you, I was like, hey, Charlamann, 159 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 2: can you talk about this? And you were like, Jeae, 160 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 2: I don't have time right now because of this, this 161 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 2: and this or whatever. I'm in between something. As a 162 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: respectful person back, I'm going to like, I understand that 163 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 2: I actually had someone that message this morning. I'd message 164 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: someone inviting them to an event and they didn't get 165 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 2: back to me, and they messaged me this morning and 166 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: we're just like, Jay, I'm so sorry. I was like 167 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 2: getting ready for the mat and my outfit went wrong 168 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: and then like I had to figure this out and 169 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: it's been crazy and it all worked out, but I 170 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 2: wanted you to know, you know, I always respond to you. 171 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, I wasn't offended at all. 172 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: I respect that and thank you for explaining and it 173 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 2: turned out. But a lot of the times I feel 174 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 2: we're scared of being honest because we're scared the other 175 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: person's going to turn around and go, oh, you never 176 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: get back to me, Oh you think you're too important 177 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: for me. We are scared of offending people. We don't 178 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: stop being so offended, because I feel like anything offends 179 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: anyone these days. 180 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: That's a multi laying answer, right, because number one, I 181 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: think we have to stop being people pleases. And I 182 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: think that you know, if you grow up in a 183 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: certain environment, you've had certain things you know happened to you. 184 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 3: Like my therapist always told me. 185 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: Like, I know exactly why I'm a people pleaser, right, 186 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: and I talk about it in the book. I'm a 187 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: people pleaser because you know of abuse to ourselves at. 188 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 3: The age of eight. 189 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: Right, So me not wanting that young lady to touch 190 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: me anymore turned into her calling me ugly and saying 191 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 1: I had a big nose. So in order for her 192 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: to stop doing that, I would continue to let her, 193 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: you know, touch on me. So it's like, you don't 194 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: realize how that carries on into adulthood to where you 195 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: just become this people pleaser. You don't want to let 196 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: anybody down because if you feel like you let them down, 197 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: then they're going to start speaking ill about you and 198 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: doing things that hurt your feelings. 199 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 3: So you just continue to do what's best for them, 200 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 3: sacrificing your own piece. 201 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: And we can't do that, you just got to set 202 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: boundaries for yourself and be like, yo, I'm not going 203 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: to be a people pleaser in any way, shape or form. 204 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: And man, honestly, if my boundaries, you know, caused somebody 205 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: to feel offended, then that's the whole point of having 206 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: the boundary in the first place. 207 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 3: I kind of have a boundary from. 208 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: This person to begin with, because you're upset with me, 209 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: because I'm placing a boundary for my peace of mind. 210 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 3: Nah, I don't need you on my life to begin with. 211 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, how early? Well, when were you ready to revisit 212 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: that eight year old self? Like when did you feel 213 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 2: comfortable to even reflect back on that in therapy? Because 214 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 2: I imagine that, or you can tell me when you 215 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 2: were eight did you just block it out in the 216 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 2: next few years and then when did you go back 217 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: to it and say, oh, actually, that's where a lot 218 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: of it started. 219 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: I was watching an episode of Open Winford and Tyler 220 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: Perry was on there, and Tyler Perry was, you know, 221 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: crying about the abuse that he experienced from a woman 222 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: in his family. And I think I was in my twenties, 223 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: and I remember saying to myself, like, what's wrong with him? 224 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 3: Why is he you know, upset about that. 225 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: And then when at some point I remember saying to myself, well, 226 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: what's wrong needed I thought it was okay, but then 227 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 1: you kind of suppressed it again because I wasn't going 228 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: to therapy on my twenties. But when I started going 229 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: to therapy in like my late like mid thirties, that's 230 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: when I started to unpack a whole lot of that stuff, 231 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: because you know, you go to therapy for one thing, 232 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: You go to therapy because you're dealing with you think 233 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: you're dealing with anxiety and depression. Then you start peeling 234 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: back all of these different layers and you start realizing 235 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: all of this other trauma you know that you've experienced, 236 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: and you know that was that was one of those 237 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: things like you know, being a people pleaser, not setting 238 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: proper boundaries because of that moment that happened to me, 239 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: you know, when I. 240 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 3: Was eight years old, and carried on throughout my whole whole. 241 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: Adult life until I finally realized, like, oh, this is 242 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: why I don't like letting people down. This is why 243 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: I do things, you know, for people even when I 244 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: don't want to. This is why even if I'm not 245 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: happy necessarily about doing something. I just go along to 246 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: do it because I don't want to upset or offend 247 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: that person, to cause that person to be, you know, 248 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: looking at me in a negative way. So I would 249 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: say like mid thirties is when I really started unpacking it. 250 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: So it's probably been like the last ten years of 251 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: really unpacking it. 252 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 2: And when you ate, how long did that abuse lost? 253 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: Like how recurring was it? 254 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: And I don't know, man, because and I even mentioned 255 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: it in the book, I suppressed so much abuse that 256 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: I experienced when I was young that it wasn't even 257 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: that one person, you know, but you just you suppress 258 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: it because in a lot of ways, it becomes the norm. 259 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 1: Like I remember being young, like nine, ten eleven years old, 260 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: having conversations with other young men I grew up around, 261 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: and we were all talking about older women we was 262 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: dealing with, and we thought we was lying to each other. 263 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 3: But now when you look back. 264 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: On it, it was just all a bunch of young 265 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: kids getting abused. But when you were a young man, 266 00:11:58,480 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: you don't look at it like that. When you were 267 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: a young man and you're just like, oh, I'm getting 268 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: action early. You know, I'm getting action early, and I'm 269 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: getting action with older women early, so you don't look 270 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: at it like that until you get older and realize 271 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: how man, how a lot of that impacts you, you know, 272 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: like mentally and emotionally. 273 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, what were some of the ways that you think 274 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 2: that impacted you? And it's interesting, I love what you 275 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: said that, like, when you're young, you actually see that 276 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 2: as like ego, bravardo, arrogance, Like it's cool. What were 277 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: the things that you started to extrapolate through therapy and 278 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 2: the work you did where you're like, oh, that's the 279 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: kind of impact that it's had in my real life 280 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 2: and my real adult life. 281 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 1: The biggest one for me is the people pleasing aspect. 282 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: That's literally the biggest one. Like not having no boundaries 283 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: and when I did try to set boundaries with one 284 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: of the women in particular, her you know, getting in 285 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: my head psychologically, calling me ugly and saying I got 286 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: a big nose and all of this other stuff. So 287 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: for me, the biggest, you know, issue was the fact 288 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: that I just did not know how to set proper boundaries. 289 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: And when I did set them, it was like it 290 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: wasn't the brick house, it was the straw house. You know, 291 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: you could just blow it, you could just blow it away. 292 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: So I never really set any proper boundaries. It wasn't 293 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: until I started unpacking a lot of that stuff that 294 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: I realized, like, no, I'm gonna set my boundary and 295 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be upset at you know, any bad, 296 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: big bad wolf that's mad that they can't blow my 297 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: house down. 298 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 299 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 2: What I find interesting especially is I think we all 300 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: developed a peacemaker people pleaser personality type through different reasons. 301 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 2: How have you found yourself not being a people pleased 302 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 2: with your therapist? Because I find a lot of people 303 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 2: end up playing that role where they can't be honest 304 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: with their therapist because we want our therapists to like 305 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: us and say well done, like good work, you know, 306 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 2: like oh you really? So how did you find yourself 307 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 2: getting that ability? Because I think a lot of people 308 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 2: listening and watching maybe going to therapy. They may be 309 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 2: trying to turn to help, but actually they find themselves 310 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 2: playing that same role with that therapist. 311 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: Man, I got a new therapist know this passion, and 312 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 1: my first therapist I might have been lying to her 313 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: probably fifty sixty percent of the time, just because there 314 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: was so many things that I thought I wanted to share, 315 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: but I wasn't, and it wasn't until earlier this year, 316 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, having me and my wife went away on 317 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: this nice little spiritual retreat for a weekend, and you know, 318 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:31,119 Speaker 1: we was indulging in plant based medicines, you know, ayahuasca 319 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: in particular, and one of the things that came forth 320 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: for me was literally stop lying to yourself and stop 321 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: volunteering those lies to other people. And so much came 322 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: up in that moment, you know, so much, you know, 323 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: like I said, abuse to that experienced as a child, 324 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: all of that type of stuff. And that's when I 325 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: was like, oh, I've been I've been telling half truths. 326 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: I haven't been being completely honest, like I've been telling, 327 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: you know, just enough of a of a story to 328 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: get just enough back. But that's not how you you know, 329 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: properly heal anything, Like you gotta deal with it all, 330 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: you know, don't even don't even don't even try. And 331 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: so for me, I feel like, you know, I probably 332 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: was lying to like my first therapist for like, I 333 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: would literally probably stay half of the time. 334 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 2: And do you think we do that because we're actually 335 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 2: scared of having that address? 336 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: Is that the reason one hundred it's still fear, it's 337 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: still insecurity that we're not willing to share with anyone. 338 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: Like even that night that I was, you know that 339 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: that that that first but that was the second night 340 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: of the journey on ayahuasca. Like me and my wife 341 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: been together twenty six years, and I was sharing things 342 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: with her that I never had shared with any anybody, 343 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: and that felt so so, so so freeing, And even 344 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: in that moment, I'm like, I don't think there's anybody 345 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: else I trust to share these things with, not even 346 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: a a therapist, no matter how good the therapist is, 347 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: no matter how you know, great, the therapist is. Like 348 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: this individual that I've shared majority of my life with 349 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: is the only person I feel comfortable, you know, putting 350 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: all that on the table for Yeah. 351 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: I think that's a really interesting point because I think 352 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 2: the words honesty and vulnerability have somewhat been exploited in 353 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 2: and of themselves in this idea that if you're honest, 354 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 2: everyone has to know everything, like you have to just 355 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 2: put it all out there. What you just said is actually, 356 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: even with my therapist, they're not going to get one 357 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 2: hundred percent version of me because my wife, my partner, 358 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: who's been with me for over twenty years now, it's 359 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: like that person not only deserves it, but we've built 360 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 2: up enough trust and there's earned respect where we both 361 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 2: can share that. What's been your take on the Internet, 362 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 2: like oversharing, undersharing, overtelling, undertelling, Because I feel like there 363 00:16:58,040 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 2: was a point in time where it's like, if you're 364 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: vulner you better say everything to everyone, right, Like that's 365 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 2: what vulnerability is. And I think there was like this 366 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: false pressure that you had to share all your business 367 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 2: with everyone. 368 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think on the Internet a lot of people 369 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: crying out for help who probably not probably who need 370 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: to be in therapy actually talking to somebody, And there's 371 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: a whole lot of people just lying. But that's what 372 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: I mean when I say, you know, stop lying to 373 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: yourself and stop volunteering those lies to other people. Every 374 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: single day people wake up and just volunteer lies for 375 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 1: no reason. And I'm not saying lives have to be negative, 376 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: Like they just lie about their life, They lie about 377 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 1: who they are, they lie about what they do, and 378 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: it's like nobody asked you for that, Like nobody, So 379 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: you're inviting all of this negative energy into your life. 380 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: You're inviting all of this opinion and all of this critique. 381 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: That's literally going to have real world consequences because that's 382 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: the stuff that's going to give you anxiety. That's the 383 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: stuff that's going to, you know, cause you to have 384 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: a Boucher depression and you're you're going to be sitting 385 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: there dealing with all of this stuff for you created 386 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 1: like what is the point of that? So it's like 387 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: for me, man, we really all just have to stop volunteering, 388 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: you know, the lies we tell ourselves to others. 389 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 2: Yea, what led you towards plant medicine is a method 390 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 2: of healing, as a method of reflection? Like what made 391 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 2: you go down that route? Because you've done therapy for years, 392 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 2: you've talked about it, you're a big ambassador for mental health. 393 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 2: What was the opening there? 394 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it was just something I wanted to try 395 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: and then they always say, you know, you don't you 396 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: don't do it unless it's calling you. And so you know, 397 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,719 Speaker 1: just reading about it and you know, seeing you know, 398 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: what other people's take on it was like two things 399 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: that really attracted me was everybody that did it was 400 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: telling me like, y'all I saw God, like I knew 401 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: people who were atheists, like like Neil Brennan was an 402 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: atheist and he did it and now he's like a 403 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: believer and you know, and I was like, whoa. And 404 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: I've always had faith and I've always been a believer. 405 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: So I just wanted to kind of see, like I 406 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: want to see, you know, see see more of that. 407 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: And I think people saying how it detaches you from 408 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: your ego, Like I thought that was very powerful because 409 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: that's something that we all try to do every day. 410 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: But they was like, no, it feels like somebody literally 411 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: takes your ego and just rips it away from you. 412 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 3: And I wanted to know what that felt like. 413 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: And man, absolutely overstand what it felt like, especially that 414 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: that that second night. 415 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 2: Yea, where did you go for it? Where did you 416 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 2: try it out? 417 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 3: I was in I was in California, Okay. 418 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, great, Great, you didn't go too far? No, 419 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 2: because I've heard of I've had friends go out to 420 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 2: like Costa Rica and then you and. 421 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, Sean, and I talked to was like, welly, I 422 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: even I think it was. I don't know it was 423 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: Perule coach Riga was somewhere. I forgot where it was. 424 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: But he was just like that's a jungle. He was like, 425 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: you don't want to have that kind of experience in 426 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: the jungle. I mean he wasn't knocking anybody. He just like, 427 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: for you on your first time, I just don't, you know, 428 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: recommend that. So it was just kind of like the 429 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: vine alignment, Like it was one of those things like 430 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: it had been calling me for the. 431 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 3: Past I would say, five or six years. 432 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: Wow, and then like the opportunity just presented itself, you know, 433 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: with some with some some people with some really great energy. 434 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,719 Speaker 3: And I was like, yeah, why not and it just 435 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 3: all lined up. 436 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: It's one of those things is like, oh, I'm actually 437 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: treat this weekend. 438 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, the wife wanted to do it. We went to 439 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 3: do it. 440 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 2: It's beautiful. What did you What have you found? Has 441 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 2: been the hardest thing for you to be honest with 442 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 2: yourself about everything everything. 443 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: You know, it's so easy for us to get caught 444 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: up in line ourselves because we do it to protect 445 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: ourselves in a lot of way. Right, So, like it 446 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: might be a person that you genuinely have love for, 447 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: like genuinely just as on a human level, Like you 448 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 1: love this person and like you know this person might 449 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: have a talent or skill set that you know you 450 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: want to help amplify, like provide an opportunity for but 451 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: you know as well as I do that you know, 452 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: character talent sometimes will take people with character can't sustain them. 453 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: So even though you see this person's talent, you know, 454 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: once they get in a certain position, you realize that 455 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: character isn't going to be able you know, to keep 456 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: them there, but you will constantly lie to yourself about 457 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 1: this person's character over and over and over and over, 458 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: and then you wonder why things aren't working out, and literally, 459 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: it will affect everything that you're doing. Like let's just 460 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: say it's a team and you put this person as 461 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: part of the team, and this person is causing problems 462 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 1: with the rest of the team, and you see it, 463 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: but you make any excuses for it, you know. And 464 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: it's like even a friend that you might have been 465 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: friends with a person for a long, long, long time, 466 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: and you know, y'all have very deep intimate conversations, so 467 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,239 Speaker 1: you know this person differently than a lot of other 468 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: people know them. So you get a soft spot, you know, 469 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 1: in your heart for said individuals. So when you're hearing 470 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: everybody else talk about how terrible this person is. You're 471 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: lying to yourself about it. You're like, no, y'all just 472 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: don't understand this person. Like it's like, no, the reality 473 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: is they are a terrible person and they need to 474 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: do more work and they need to really, you know, 475 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: figure themselves out. So you know the biggest thing, Yeah, 476 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: it's just we constantly a lot ourselves about everything. You 477 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: might you might look in the mirror and know you 478 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: need to lose twenty pounds, Like you might put a 479 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: shirt on and know it don't quite fit right, but 480 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: you'll pull on it and tug it, and you know, 481 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: how does this look? You know, somebody like, oh, it 482 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: looks like it look good and you're like, hey, it does. 483 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: And then you get on Instagram and then you get 484 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: humbled because it's a bunch of people that don't know 485 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: you at all who are willing to tell you the 486 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: truth about how you look. Then you out to yourself 487 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: again and you say this stuff, Oh, they just hating. 488 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: You knew that was whack when you put it on. 489 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: You knew you had no right putting that shirt on 490 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: before you put it on, but you decided to do 491 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: it anyway. 492 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 3: So I just feel like we. I think every single 493 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 3: moment of. 494 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: Our lives is an exercise in being honest with ourselves 495 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: first and foremost, and then the rest of them world, 496 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: and then choosing who to share that honesty with, because 497 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: sometimes people aren't lying. 498 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 3: It's just none of your business. 499 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: And I think that's something that people forget too, especially 500 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: in this. 501 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 3: World of oversharing. 502 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: I have to constantly remind people that, especially in this 503 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: era of the Internet. I'm like, when you're talking about celebrities, 504 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: you don't know any of these people. I don't care 505 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: what they post on social I don't care what you 506 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: hear in their music. You genuinely do not know any 507 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: of these individuals. 508 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 2: Stop lying yourself like you do in what sense? Because 509 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 2: I'm thinking of something, But in what sense do you mean? 510 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 2: Like we don't know the more? How that applies to us? 511 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: You think we're commentating on a life that we don't 512 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 2: know about it. 513 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 3: People? 514 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 1: You know, people past these judgments, Like you'll see whole 515 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: psycho analysts about people, right, and it's like, how did 516 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: you come to that conclusion? 517 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 3: Like literally you're breaking down a person's whole path. 518 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: Oh, they're are narcissists and they're egotistical, and they're out 519 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: for this. I'm like, how do you know based off 520 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 1: a tweet? How do you know based off one conversation 521 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: that they had? You don't know this person. This person 522 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: has lived, you know, thirty plus years, forty plus years, 523 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: whatever it is. You do not spend every waking moment 524 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: with this individual. How do we come to these full 525 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: blown conclusions about people that we don't know. I had 526 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: somebody get mad at the other day because I told 527 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: them I don't know this person personally. We were talking 528 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: about an artist, and I was like, I don't know 529 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: that person personally. Now that the person I was talking 530 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: to did so, I understand how they felt, But I 531 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,959 Speaker 1: don't have that same personal connection or feelings towards this 532 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: individual because I don't have a personal connection with them. 533 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: And when it comes to public figures, a lot of 534 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 1: times it makes you more objective because you don't have 535 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: any bias, because anybody that you actually have a connection with, 536 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: you're going to have a natural bias toward them. 537 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 3: That's another thing we lie to each other about. 538 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: We lie to each other like whereas so honest and 539 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: so objective when we all have our biases for people, 540 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 1: we all have our biases for places. 541 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 3: We all have our biases for things, and that's okay. 542 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you can address that and say, yeah, 543 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: I know I got a bias, then you could actually 544 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: have an honest conversation about whatever it is you're talking about. 545 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: Our look at things, you know, from an honest perspective. 546 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: If you can't even be honest about your biases, then 547 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: you're starting off from a lie. 548 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. I often find it's this observer mindset that we're missing, 549 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 2: where it's like, okay, we're having a conversation right now, 550 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 2: but can I actually allow myself to look at it 551 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 2: from this perspective? If I can't do that, like if 552 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 2: I can't see, oh, I'm currently displaying ego and the 553 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 2: other person is currently displaying defensiveness. If I can't see 554 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: what I'm displaying and what someone else is and I'm 555 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 2: only seeing what they're displaying, then I'm not really observing. 556 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 2: I can't be objective absolutely, and I find that that's 557 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 2: exactly what's missing where and I can testify to what 558 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 2: you just said, whether it's inaccurate guest lists at people's 559 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 2: wedding that are printed in the papers, or whether it's 560 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 2: inaccurate oh, I know the news saying oh, they're going 561 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 2: to get a divorce, or their kids hate them, or 562 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 2: whatever else it is. You notice, Yeah, I can testify 563 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 2: to having knowing people going None of that's true. And 564 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 2: it goes back to the point you started with, which 565 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 2: is this idea of we get so lost commentating on 566 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 2: everything and everyone else that we know nothing about that 567 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 2: we don't have time and energy to work on what's 568 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 2: going on inside here. Absolutely, and I find it remarkable 569 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 2: that we spend our lives trying to solve, psychoanalyze, entertain 570 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 2: ourselves by someone else's problems rather than fixing our own. 571 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: We do that on purpose, because if we can talk 572 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: about everybody else, then we can avoid that hard, painful, 573 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: excruciating work it takes to deal with our own bs. I. 574 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: If I can look at everyone else, I can avoid 575 00:26:58,520 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: looking in. 576 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 3: That mirror all day long. 577 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: I'm too busy sight seeing other people and commentating on 578 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: other people, so I never have to look. 579 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,239 Speaker 3: In the mirror. You know, at at at what it 580 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 3: is that I need to fix. Yah. 581 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you said something that's interesting too, man, And that's 582 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: why that's why this error we're in is so difficult. 583 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: And I think even you know, our positions as media personalities, 584 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,239 Speaker 1: because you know, I remember when I used to work 585 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 1: for Wendy Wims. She used to always say to me, 586 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: you're either gonna be of the people or of the industry. 587 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: But it's almost impossible when you're in the business, because 588 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: you're gonna actually meet people and you're gonna develop relationships. 589 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of times when we have 590 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: a different perspective of things because we're kind of in it. 591 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 3: Like I've literally been with individuals. 592 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: Couples, watching them love on each other, watching them kiss 593 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: on each other, and then it'll be like breaking news 594 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: they're getting a. 595 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 3: Divorce, they hate each other, like they're a part. 596 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: And I'm like, this is a mind because I'm like, whoa, 597 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: And it puts so much in perspective, and not even 598 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: just that, like us as individuals, you'll see things about 599 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: yourself and you like that's not remotely true, Like that's 600 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: not even accurate at all, And everybody around you will 601 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: be mad, and everybody around you be upset, and you'll 602 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: be pissed off too. But then you have to really 603 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: say to yourself, what are you gonna do. I'm not 604 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: going I refuse to go on the defensive and start 605 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: explaining to myself to a bunch of people who never 606 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 1: even took the time to learn the truth. Anyway, if 607 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: you didn't, you never took the time to learn the truth. 608 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 1: So you would rather just put this out there, you know, 609 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: printice say these things, not care if you're accurate, you know, not, 610 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: not care if there's any falsehoods, You just whatever. So 611 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: why would I take the time to explain the truth 612 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: to you? 613 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 4: Now? 614 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: Now not only am I validating what you've said to 615 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: a certain extent or not now what you said, but 616 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: validating you and your platform. 617 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 3: Now I'm actually giving you more content. Yeah, yeah, I'm 618 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 3: not doing that at all. 619 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, for sure, I was going to go 620 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 2: back to the personal again with you, because I feel 621 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 2: like a big turning point in your book that you 622 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 2: talk about that a calm wait for people to dive into, 623 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 2: is this moment where you realize that your father was 624 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 2: cheating on your mom, and like that is like a 625 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 2: really big moment for you at that point because you're, like, 626 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 2: I think, seventeen years old and you're learning about this 627 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 2: and naturally you feel like, tell me how you felt 628 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 2: like in that moment, because it almost feels like the 629 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 2: first time you discovered that something's alie, like in a 630 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 2: big way. 631 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that was a very macro conversation, you know, 632 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: because I had made up my mind in that moment 633 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: that me and my pops couldn't have no small talk 634 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: about this situation because you know, we live in a 635 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: small town, so you're hearing it constantly, right, and you're 636 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: you're driving by, you know, this house, and you're seeing 637 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: his truck out there, and you know, you're fully aware 638 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: of all of the different eyes that he's that He's 639 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: told my mom like, oh, I'm just I'm over there 640 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: doing work. Oh, that's my secretary, all this other stuff. Right, 641 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: So finally, you know, just deciding to have the macro 642 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: conversation and say, Yo, you out of hit cheating, No mom, 643 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: what you do in is file. 644 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 3: And my dad was like, yo, you only got one girlfriend. 645 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 3: You know one day you. 646 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: Gonna understand, like he that's what That was his reply 647 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: to me, and that that messed me up for a 648 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: while because that's my hero. Like still to this day, 649 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: I love my dad. Like my dad, I fully understand, 650 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: you know, the totality of my father as a man 651 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: and as I've become a man myself. At forty five 652 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: years old, I overstand you know, everything that you know 653 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: he went through. And so when he said that to me, 654 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: I felt like I had to live up to his expectations. 655 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: So that's when it became a thing of oh, let 656 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: me show him that I can get a roster. I 657 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: don't have to be, you know, committed to one person. 658 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: And yo, that lasted for a while, not not a while, 659 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: but too long for my liking, right, And so I 660 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: remember later on years down the line, my dad saying 661 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: to me, you know, the worst thing that he ever 662 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: did was caused my mother to leave him, and telling 663 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: me that I always had it right, because he you know, 664 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: I'm with the same woman right for twenty six years. 665 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: He was like telling me I always had it right, 666 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: and I'm like, damn, that's why you shouldn't always listen 667 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: to a dotes bro. Like, just because you love a 668 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: person and they're older than you and they got more 669 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: experiences than you, don't mean that they're always right. But 670 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: I give my father so much grace because, you know, 671 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: one of the first breakthrough, the first breakthrough I ever 672 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: had in therapy, I mean, the thing that led me 673 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: to tears. Was just realizing that my father used to 674 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: discipline me for things that he never taught me. And 675 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: now I even take it a step further and say, 676 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: my father used to discipline me for things that he 677 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: never taught me, but also for things that he never 678 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: learned himself. So a lot of his his his his 679 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: his raising of me was he was raising me through 680 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: fear and not love, right, so because he just didn't 681 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: want me to make the same mistakes. 682 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 3: That he made. 683 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: He was terrified of me going down, you know, the 684 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: same path that he went down, and I ended up 685 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: going down that path anyway, like even down to you know, 686 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: the mental health journey. Like when I wrote my second book, 687 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,479 Speaker 1: you know, Shook One anxiety playing tricks on me. When 688 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: I wrote that, I was all the way discombobulated. I 689 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: had no idea whether I was coming or going because 690 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,959 Speaker 1: I had just started going to therapy and I had 691 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: just started peeling back a lot of those layers. 692 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 3: So I was just raw, like I had. 693 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,239 Speaker 1: I had no idea who I was. There was this 694 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: character that had been created named Charlamagne. I'm like, I 695 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: don't know who this person is. Then I'm dealing with 696 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: Leonard myself. I don't know who this person is. So 697 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: I was just all over the place, and I literally 698 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,959 Speaker 1: just put it all in that book and had a 699 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,959 Speaker 1: doctor ish major do clinical correlations to the things that 700 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: I was talking about. But he, my father, had read 701 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: that book and I talk about this story in the book, 702 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: but he had read that book. And that same week, 703 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: I had a cousin who had completed suicide. And he 704 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,239 Speaker 1: had attempted to complete suicide like four other times, and 705 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: the fourth time he completed it. I think he was 706 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: like twenty five years old. So my dad was triggered 707 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: by a. 708 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 3: Lot of that stuff. 709 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: He was triggered by a lot of the stuff I 710 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: wrote in my book, and he was definitely triggered by 711 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: my cousin completing suicide. So my father calls me and 712 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: he tells me, you know, he read the book talking 713 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: about my cousin a little bit and he goes, man, 714 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: you know, I tried to commit suicide thirty plus years ago, 715 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: but I didn't because of you know, your older sister 716 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: and you. And he was like, you know, I was 717 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: on two to three medications. No, he was actually on 718 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: ten to twelve medications and he was going to therapy 719 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: two and three times a week dealing with his own 720 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: mental health issues, and so much so that the state 721 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: of Sart Carolina just started giving him a check. And 722 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: that's what they used to call it, a crazy check. 723 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: So I remember asking my mom, like, yo, you know, 724 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: you know Dad was going through all of this, and 725 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: she was like, I just thought he was playing crazy 726 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: to get a check. So just think about that, Like, 727 00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: think about if he was able to just express self 728 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: and have those conversations with us as a family back then, 729 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: how that would have saved me, you know, so much 730 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: grieful when I was dealing with panic attacks and stuff 731 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: as a child and thinking something was you know, you know, 732 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: wrong with me, And. 733 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 3: Just all of that makes me give my father a 734 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 3: whole lot of grace. 735 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: He's just a man who was just trying to do 736 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: his best, you know, with what he had and the 737 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: knowledge he had at the time. So I don't hold 738 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 1: I held a lot of that against him for. 739 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 3: A long, long, long, long time. 740 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: But it was in that moment in twenty eighteen when 741 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: he told me everything he was dealing with. I don't 742 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: know why, it just clicked, Like my dad just a man, Yeah, 743 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: Like he just a man, Just like I'm a man, like, 744 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: who am I to not give him the same grace 745 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: I want. 746 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 2: Totally what's allowed you to have that Charlaman to be 747 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 2: able to zoom out and have that context and that 748 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 2: grace because I think when we're analyzing these things and 749 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 2: you kind of connect the DUTs, you're like, oh, yeah, 750 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 2: my dad treat me like that. That's why I became 751 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 2: like that, That's why I made that mistake. And you 752 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 2: can spend so much time in this very linear back 753 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 2: and forth journey of that was the past, that's how 754 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 2: it connects to the present, that's how it impacted my life. 755 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 2: But you're almost looking at it from a bird's eye 756 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 2: view looking down, going, oh that makes sense, So my 757 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 2: dad went through and then you can give grace, you 758 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 2: can have what was the key in therapy and in 759 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,800 Speaker 2: your personal work that shifted it from being this linear 760 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 2: thing to being a bird's eye view of this situation. 761 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: I honestly think I've always had that as a child, 762 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,399 Speaker 1: like always like I've always had a bird's eye view 763 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: with things, Like I've always felt in tune to something 764 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,720 Speaker 1: to something else, Like there was always like this voice 765 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 1: in my head or this spirit that was you know, 766 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: moving me in certain directions are causing me to see 767 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 1: certain things. Sometimes I will see things I wasn't supposed 768 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: to see, you know, literally and figuratively, right, And I've 769 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: always had these visions, and I just I remember my 770 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: dad always telling me when I was a child, if 771 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: you don't change your ways, you gonna. 772 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 3: End up in jail, dead or broke under the tree. 773 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: And a lot of people hear that but don't actually 774 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: learn that and apply that. For some reason, I was 775 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,760 Speaker 1: able at a young age to actually start seeing people 776 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 1: that I love go to jail, like for prison sentences. 777 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: And I was going to jail, and you know, I 778 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: saw people around me that were actually getting killed. And 779 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: I saw older cousins who I used to look up to. 780 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: They are sitting under the tree kind of like not 781 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:30,280 Speaker 1: doing much with themselves. 782 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, that's not gonna be me. 783 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: And I literally could see, all right, everything I do 784 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: today directly is gonna impact what happens to me tomorrow. 785 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: So I need to start doing what I need to 786 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: do today. It's like, yo, if I, you know, continue 787 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: to eat like this, I'm gonna be fat in the future. Right, Like, 788 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: if I don't read this book. You know, my knowledge 789 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 1: is gonna be limited in the future. So I've always, 790 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: you know, by the grace of God, just tended to 791 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: have like a bird's eye view with things like my 792 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:03,240 Speaker 1: third eye is has been opened for quite a long time, 793 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: like to the point even when I think about, like 794 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,399 Speaker 1: me and my wife had a nonprofit back in the day, 795 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,439 Speaker 1: Well we thought it was a nonprofit when we set 796 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: it up. We set it up as a nonprofit, but 797 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: we never went through the proper channels to make it 798 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: a nonprofit. It just sounded like, oh, we go set this, 799 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's one of those things. 800 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 3: And so we had. 801 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,839 Speaker 1: It was called third eye awareness, like literally that's what 802 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: it was called. Even when like the first tattoo I 803 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: ever got was Wolverine from The X Men, because I 804 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: love Wolverine, right, I love the x Men. I'm a 805 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: big comic book guy. But back then I got the 806 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: tattoo when I was like seventeen years old. This one, 807 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: tattoos were illegal in South Carolina. I got the tattoo 808 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: because the thing that attracted me towards Wolverine was his 809 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: healing powers. And so the tattoo I got on my 810 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,919 Speaker 1: arm is Wolverine holding a microphone in his hand because 811 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: I thought rap was gonna be what changed my life. 812 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: But lo and behold, it was these type of microphones 813 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: that changed my life. And you know, now I feel 814 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: like my purpose in life is to not only continue 815 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: to heal myself, but to continue to help as many 816 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: other people. 817 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,240 Speaker 3: You know, get on there, get on their healing journey. 818 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,280 Speaker 1: So I was sixteen seventeen years old thinking about stuff 819 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: like this. Sixteen seventeen, you get a tattooed like that, 820 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: and in your mind you're explaining it perfectly. I'm like, yo, 821 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: I'm attracted the wolvernverine because of his healing. 822 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 2: Powers, and then. 823 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 3: Wrapped the microphone. 824 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,839 Speaker 1: But now I'm forty five, about to be forty six, 825 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: I'm looking at it like, oh, I understand what that 826 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: was now. And that was another revelation that came to me, 827 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, when I went on my Awaska journey, it 828 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: was like, Yo, nothing has been wasted, literally nothing. There 829 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 1: is absolutely nothing that has happened to me in my life. 830 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 3: Whether you want to label a good, bad, you know. 831 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,320 Speaker 1: Ugly, pretty, whatever it was, nothing has gone to waste 832 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: in my life. Every single thing has a purpose and 833 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: had a purpose and has gotten me to this point. 834 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: And I think, man, when you look at things through 835 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 1: that lens, it just kind of like shapes. It shapes 836 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: your understanding of trauma, and you know why so called 837 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: bad things happen in a different way. 838 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 3: I don't look at it as good or bad. 839 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 1: It was just like one process of life that gets 840 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: you to this point. 841 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 2: I think, you just nail something so powerful. Then I 842 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 2: want to emphasize it for people because I think we 843 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 2: go through this loop where we say, oh, now I 844 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 2: get it. Everything else I was wrong, I wasted time. 845 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 2: Now I get it, and then a few years later 846 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 2: we go, oh, no, no, no, I just waste the last 847 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 2: few years. Now I get it. And we constantly have 848 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 2: this belief that we have to neglect and reject our 849 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 2: past in order to establish our present. We feel like 850 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 2: we have to constantly say our past was a waste 851 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 2: of time in order to establish that our present is 852 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 2: now us doing the right thing. And I actually fully 853 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 2: agree with you and completely disagree with that, because what 854 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 2: you're doing is you're negating all of the lessons, all 855 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 2: of the wisdom, all of the learning, all of the 856 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 2: growth that actually got you to that point. Absolutely and 857 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 2: then you're also negating the fact that all the skills 858 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 2: you learn during that time, all the habits, they could 859 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 2: still be useful. But because you're writing off that time, 860 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 2: you're writing off all of that growth. And I've been 861 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 2: saying that so many people lately. Even when people are 862 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 2: like I think I'm wasting my time. I'm trying to 863 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 2: find a new job. I want to do something I'm 864 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 2: passionate about. Oh, Jay, Like the last few years, I 865 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 2: just waste them being anxious. Now I'm confident. It's like no, no, no, no, no, Like, 866 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 2: you need to remember that because that's how you got here. 867 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 2: And by the way, life is going to give you 868 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 2: those scenarios again, and you're gonna need to remember this 869 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 2: because next time it will be a familiar right, It'll 870 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 2: be like a familiar feeling of Oh, I've been there, 871 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 2: I know how to deal with this. 872 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,359 Speaker 1: That's why when even when you're talking to, you know, 873 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: young people in the field, and they'll say things to 874 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 1: you like, well, what if I, you know, leave New 875 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: York and go to Atlanta and things don't work in Atlanta? 876 00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: I'm like okay, Like and like, what do you mean 877 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,280 Speaker 1: if things don't work? Because what you're going to realize 878 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: later on in life is regardless of what happened when 879 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,400 Speaker 1: you were there, it worked. I don't care if you 880 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,360 Speaker 1: went down there and you worked there for six months 881 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 1: and got fired. There's going to be something you pick 882 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: up in those six months. There's gonna be somebody you 883 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: meet in those six months. It might just be a 884 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: time of your life that you actually enjoy and you 885 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: need that. You might just need to be in a 886 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: different environment, you know, for a little while, But there's 887 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: gonna be something you pick up within those six months 888 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: that's gonna make you realize, like it worked. I think, 889 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: you know, we have these extremes when it comes to work. 890 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: I could easily look back in my radio career and 891 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: be like, I got fired four times, So those were 892 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: four times things didn't work. That is a complete lie. 893 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: Every single one of those situations I got fired from. 894 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: I had the time of my life and I learned 895 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,360 Speaker 1: so much from and I met people that are still, 896 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: you know, my friends to this day. So I wouldn't 897 00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,080 Speaker 1: trade any of that for the world. Like for all 898 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:01,399 Speaker 1: I know, how do we know what we're doing now 899 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 1: is working? 900 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't. 901 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: This is just what we're doing in the moment. I 902 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: know what's working for now. But who's to say this 903 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: is what we're going to be doing when we're fifty 904 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 1: years old. Who's to say this is what we're going 905 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: to be doing we're sixty, we might be still trying 906 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: to hold on to breakfast club and on purpose and 907 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: God is like, I need you to move. Yeah, he 908 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: might even still let you keep it, but you'll be 909 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 1: sitting here unhappy, depressed, angry, like, oh, why isn't things 910 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,760 Speaker 1: moving the way I want him to move? It's because 911 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: God asked you to move a long time ago, but 912 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,399 Speaker 1: you didn't want to because you're still trying to make 913 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,840 Speaker 1: this work and it's not working no more. Just because 914 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 1: something is successful doesn't mean that it's working totally, you know, totally. 915 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: That's such a good point. That's such a good point, 916 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 1: and it reminds you. There's this beautiful story that the 917 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: Buddha used to tell about person. He's on a journey, 918 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: and they're on this journey and they come across an obstacle, 919 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 1: and the first obstacle is this fast flowing river. So 920 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 1: they realize, I need to build a raft. So they 921 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 1: get the bamboo, they get the they tie it up 922 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,799 Speaker 1: they build themselves and owe and then they paddle with 923 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 1: all their strength and they get to the other side, 924 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 1: and then they think, this raft saved my life. I'm 925 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,240 Speaker 1: going to take it wherever I go. So they strap 926 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,759 Speaker 1: it to their back and they carry on walking. And 927 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,360 Speaker 1: then the Buddha says that, just like us, this person 928 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,800 Speaker 1: gets to another challenge, and the challenge is not a 929 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,760 Speaker 1: fast flowing river. This time it's a tall wooded forest 930 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 1: with trees dotted at every other step. So now the 931 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: person's trying to walk through and the raft keep getting stuck, 932 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: and they're trying to maneuver, and they're trying to get through, 933 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,800 Speaker 1: and the raft is getting chipped. The raft is blocking 934 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,280 Speaker 1: them from walking through, and the Buddha says, the person 935 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,120 Speaker 1: has two choices. They either hold on to the raft 936 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 1: and they struggle to get through, or they put it 937 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,359 Speaker 1: down and they walk on freely. And it's the same 938 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,759 Speaker 1: thing point that you're making right now, this idea of like, 939 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,880 Speaker 1: what are you holding on to that you believe made 940 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: you successful, but is actually stopping you from breaking through 941 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,919 Speaker 1: the next challenge. And if you keep holding onto it's 942 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:57,799 Speaker 1: just going to hurt your hands, going to hurt your back. 943 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,880 Speaker 1: You're never going to walk through. And I agree, success 944 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,360 Speaker 1: is probably the greatest prison because the feeling of success 945 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,359 Speaker 1: is so intoxicating that you think, I'm just gonna keep 946 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,359 Speaker 1: doing this like a drug because it makes me feel good, 947 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,799 Speaker 1: but actually I may not be actually feeling healthy well, 948 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,480 Speaker 1: feeling like I'm moving in my best self. And I've 949 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 1: seen that even in my career. I remember when I 950 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 1: first died my work. We grew based on videos I 951 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,879 Speaker 1: made on Facebook, and today, eight years on, I don't 952 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: make those videos anymore. 953 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 2: Facebook is not our core platform anymore. We had to 954 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 2: move on and evolve, and I've seen that time and 955 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 2: time again, whether it's been a YouTube platform or whatever 956 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,360 Speaker 2: it is. And I think we get tied to platforms, 957 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,320 Speaker 2: we get tied to algorithms, we get tied to patterns, 958 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,920 Speaker 2: We get tied to all these things, and then eventually 959 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,200 Speaker 2: we become a prisoner of the pattern and get it 960 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 2: become a prison of the algorithm, and letting it go 961 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 2: is hard. And what you're saying right now, like recognizing 962 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 2: that what you're doing right now maybe something you have 963 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,719 Speaker 2: to let go of is a healthy he thought. 964 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 3: Man, I'm living proved. 965 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,319 Speaker 1: I talk about that in the book, you know, getting 966 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,439 Speaker 1: on us to die line while small talk sucks shameless plug. 967 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 1: But I talk about that in the book because two 968 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,400 Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen, that's why I was at with it. 969 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: You know, I'm six years in on the Breakfast Club. 970 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:20,560 Speaker 1: I'm having more success than I ever imagined. I'm making 971 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,719 Speaker 1: more money than I ever imagined. Like, you know, I 972 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 1: put out my first book, Black Privilege. It's an instant 973 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,879 Speaker 1: New York Times bestseller. Like we moving like things are great, 974 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,439 Speaker 1: things are fantastic. But I'm not happy. And the reason 975 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,239 Speaker 1: I'm not happy because I'm still dealing with this anxiety. 976 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: I'm still dealing with, you know, this depression. And I'm 977 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 1: starting to feel like, you know, I'm becoming a character 978 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:49,480 Speaker 1: sure of myself to a certain extent. And it was 979 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,680 Speaker 1: like when I made the decision to start going to 980 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 1: therapy number one. But then you start going to therapy 981 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,719 Speaker 1: and you start saying to yourself, like, all right, this 982 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 1: has gotten me to this point, what is going to 983 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,960 Speaker 1: get me to that next level of life. I wasn't 984 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,239 Speaker 1: thinking about career or anything like that. I said, what's 985 00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 1: going to get me to that next level of life? 986 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,200 Speaker 1: Because I want to enjoy life. I want to wake 987 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 1: up more happy than depressed. You know, I want to 988 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, wake up feeling you know, more secure about 989 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,880 Speaker 1: myself than imposter syndrome? Like what's going to get me 990 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,280 Speaker 1: to that? And what got me to that was letting 991 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:34,360 Speaker 1: go of just what I felt like people wanted from me. 992 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 1: And that's another reason the comments and stuff was so 993 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,960 Speaker 1: dangerous because you can put things out there and immediately 994 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,759 Speaker 1: get real time feedback, and you know, this is this 995 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 1: is twenty eighteen, right or twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, you know, 996 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,360 Speaker 1: or prior to that, it was two and twenty sixteen. 997 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,400 Speaker 3: Things weren't weren't that toxic on social. 998 00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,399 Speaker 1: Media, so you could kind of get like some real 999 00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,920 Speaker 1: world criticism and you would see these things that you know, 1000 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,040 Speaker 1: I guess people like about you, so you would constantly 1001 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,560 Speaker 1: feed them more of that. Or you got publications saying, oh, 1002 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:08,560 Speaker 1: Charlamagne is the hip hop Howard Stern. 1003 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:09,719 Speaker 3: You're like, oh, what does that mean? 1004 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,640 Speaker 1: So you start giving them more of the wild, you know, 1005 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,000 Speaker 1: crazy antics before all. I know, they could have meant 1006 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: that because of you know, the introspective interviews that that 1007 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 1: that that get done on Breakfast Club as well. But 1008 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,480 Speaker 1: I wasn't seeing that aspect of it. I was just 1009 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: seeing the raw ride of wildness. And so for me, 1010 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:30,080 Speaker 1: just personally and professionally, I just was not happy and 1011 00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,200 Speaker 1: I had to, you know, let that go. So that 1012 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,320 Speaker 1: was the most freeing thing for me because when I 1013 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:42,880 Speaker 1: did that, I experienced way more. I wouldn't be with you, 1014 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: you know, having the success that I've had if I 1015 00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,520 Speaker 1: hadn't let that raft go. And there was also a 1016 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 1: period where, you know, because of this cancel culture era 1017 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:57,320 Speaker 1: you live in, you be definitely ashamed to see some 1018 00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,400 Speaker 1: of the stuff that you you know, used to do. 1019 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: You're not You're not necessarily ashamed of it. You're more 1020 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:07,120 Speaker 1: so afraid of, oh, they're gonna use this against me whatever, whatever. 1021 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:08,719 Speaker 1: But guess what, you can't care about that. 1022 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:09,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1023 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:10,640 Speaker 1: And the reason you can't care about that because if 1024 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 1: you really have faith in the Higher Power, if you 1025 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,600 Speaker 1: really trust, you know, God to God, you have to 1026 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,400 Speaker 1: know that every single moment that you were in you 1027 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:22,320 Speaker 1: were the person you needed to be for that moment, 1028 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 1: because it's just the journey and it's a process and 1029 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,279 Speaker 1: eventually you become who you're supposed to be. And even 1030 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,680 Speaker 1: the version you're looking at me right now, not the 1031 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,480 Speaker 1: final form of myself. I don't know what that's gonna be. 1032 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,200 Speaker 1: Nobody does, but I know that I'm on the journey 1033 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:38,040 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna keep walking. 1034 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:38,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. 1035 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,080 Speaker 2: One thing I wanted to pick your brain about was 1036 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 2: this idea you kind of alluded to it there. It's this, 1037 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 2: We have this rhetoric on social media which is like, 1038 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,360 Speaker 2: we want people to be more empathetic and compassionate and kind. 1039 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,840 Speaker 2: We want people to when they share their vulnerable mental 1040 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 2: health journey that we all gotta listen and be attentive. 1041 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,439 Speaker 2: But then when sometimes we see someone with a mental 1042 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,719 Speaker 2: health challenge make them act different, we're the first ones 1043 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,640 Speaker 2: to point out that they're an idiot, they're a loser, 1044 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:09,800 Speaker 2: there's something wrong with them. There's I'll give an example 1045 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,160 Speaker 2: of what I mean by this. Like Tom Holland talked 1046 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:14,560 Speaker 2: about this when he came on the show. He was 1047 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,000 Speaker 2: talking about how, you know, he's always been seeing as 1048 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,000 Speaker 2: Spider Man and this cool kid and all the rest 1049 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,880 Speaker 2: of it. And then when he started talking about his 1050 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,320 Speaker 2: mental health or actually know, when he just announced that 1051 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,080 Speaker 2: he'd given up alcohol and he was sober, all the 1052 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:27,759 Speaker 2: news was like he was saying this he was saying. 1053 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 2: All the news was like, oh, Tom Holland, the happy, 1054 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,440 Speaker 2: go lucky kid wasn't actually he was depressed. And it 1055 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 2: was like and they made it a whole thing, and 1056 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:35,719 Speaker 2: he was like, no, I just gave up alcohol. I 1057 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,560 Speaker 2: wasn't like an alcoholic. I just didn't want to drink anymore. 1058 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,000 Speaker 2: And so all of a sudden it was like twisted 1059 00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,839 Speaker 2: the other way where it was like, oh, the kid 1060 00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,800 Speaker 2: that you think is happy, isn't he's depressed, or the 1061 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:48,920 Speaker 2: kid that he's got mental health or whatever it may be. 1062 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,120 Speaker 2: And it wasn't in the kind of compassionate way. It 1063 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,360 Speaker 2: was more like a well, look, you didn't see this. 1064 00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,400 Speaker 2: So I find it like the way we react to 1065 00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,719 Speaker 2: certain things. It's almost like we're being hypocrites in and 1066 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 2: of because at one point we're saying we should care 1067 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,200 Speaker 2: for people to have this, but then we're willing to 1068 00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,640 Speaker 2: point it out. How have you kind of seen that 1069 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,000 Speaker 2: navigate when you see the worst forms of what mental 1070 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:14,200 Speaker 2: health can do to people versus someone maybe not displaying 1071 00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,680 Speaker 2: the worst mental illness externally, but it's just talking about it. 1072 00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:18,399 Speaker 2: Does that make sense? 1073 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:18,680 Speaker 3: Yeah? 1074 00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:22,319 Speaker 1: I don't know how anybody can diagnose someone just by 1075 00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:23,440 Speaker 1: watching them. 1076 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,319 Speaker 3: Through the media. Like you know, if that's the case, 1077 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,680 Speaker 3: we're all dealing with mental health issues. People just shitty people. 1078 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,400 Speaker 3: And that's the other thing. And by the way we 1079 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,640 Speaker 3: say two things can be true, no, multiple things can 1080 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,120 Speaker 3: be true at one time. 1081 00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:41,799 Speaker 1: Like you use the example of Tom Holland, why can't 1082 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,879 Speaker 1: he be the happy gold lucky kid who said he's 1083 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,719 Speaker 1: not But that's the only version of him you had 1084 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,720 Speaker 1: in your mind. So now when you see another version 1085 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,879 Speaker 1: that doesn't fit your expectation, you're upset with him. 1086 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,680 Speaker 3: The happy gold lucky kid is not so happy anymore. 1087 00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,840 Speaker 3: That's life. You show me a human that's one emotion 1088 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:01,040 Speaker 3: all the time. 1089 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: It's just that when you're a public figure, we get 1090 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:08,200 Speaker 1: these it's like these these freeze frames. So Tom Holland happy, 1091 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:12,080 Speaker 1: du you know this person crazy, Like it's just free 1092 00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,719 Speaker 1: like literally freeze for this person, always mad, angry for you. 1093 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:15,839 Speaker 3: It's these freeze. 1094 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,160 Speaker 1: Frames of people that's not the whole totality of a person. 1095 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,200 Speaker 1: Like that's actually kind of insane for us to even 1096 00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,000 Speaker 1: think about it like that. It's like like like like 1097 00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,600 Speaker 1: even if you watch Jay Shaddy on purpose, you have 1098 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,359 Speaker 1: a thought, a perception of Jay Shaddy in your head. 1099 00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,600 Speaker 1: You got a perception of charlamage in your head based 1100 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:33,839 Speaker 1: off something you may have seen. 1101 00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,880 Speaker 3: That's your fault. That's the one thing you saw, and 1102 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:38,560 Speaker 3: you came. 1103 00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:43,640 Speaker 1: To a whole diagnosis about an individual. So you know, 1104 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:48,680 Speaker 1: even when you talk about people having empathy, that goes 1105 00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:53,680 Speaker 1: into what I'm saying now. We might want to every all, everybody, 1106 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,200 Speaker 1: all of these humans might wake up every day saying 1107 00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,160 Speaker 1: to themselves, we're gonna be empathetic today and we're gonna 1108 00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,240 Speaker 1: be caring and all of that stuff until something happens 1109 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,680 Speaker 1: to somebody that you don't like, and then that all 1110 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,640 Speaker 1: that goes out the window. I tend to see that 1111 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,800 Speaker 1: people have more empathy and sympathy, and they're more caring 1112 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:15,920 Speaker 1: towards people they actually like. It's really a popularity contest, 1113 00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,600 Speaker 1: but nobody wants to admit that we're not looking at 1114 00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,440 Speaker 1: we're not being consistent about any of these things, and 1115 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,240 Speaker 1: we're not being consistent with how we deal with people. 1116 00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,400 Speaker 1: There can be two people that come out in the 1117 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,560 Speaker 1: news today with the same situation, and based off if 1118 00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,520 Speaker 1: we like the individual or not, we'll give that person 1119 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,800 Speaker 1: a whole lot of grace and come to that person's defense. 1120 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:37,960 Speaker 1: But if it's somebody that we don't like, or somebody's 1121 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,600 Speaker 1: social media tells us we shouldn't like, Oh, we're going 1122 00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:42,640 Speaker 1: to bury them. We want them out of here, we 1123 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,680 Speaker 1: want them gone. That's not consistent. And that means you're 1124 00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:47,480 Speaker 1: lying to yourself. And that means that you're not the 1125 00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:49,960 Speaker 1: person you say that you are, because you should be 1126 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,560 Speaker 1: giving both those individuals the same amount of grace. 1127 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,880 Speaker 3: But you not. Because we're all hypocrites. And that's fine. 1128 00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,399 Speaker 1: We're everything, like everything that we pin on other people, 1129 00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,520 Speaker 1: we are all those things and more. We just got 1130 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,040 Speaker 1: to make sure that we're not projecting. 1131 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:08,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 1132 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,960 Speaker 2: Wow, that's powerful man, Yeah, that's and it's true. All 1133 00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,359 Speaker 2: of us are right. We all have bias. We all 1134 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,879 Speaker 2: have the natural human tendency to be empathetic to people 1135 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,880 Speaker 2: we like, and and we're all that way, and but 1136 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,160 Speaker 2: we've got to be able to see that, because if 1137 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,960 Speaker 2: we can see that, then it's something that we can, 1138 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,960 Speaker 2: Like you said, we don't project. Otherwise we live in 1139 00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,000 Speaker 2: our tiny we were talking about this earlier, like we 1140 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,759 Speaker 2: live in this righteous mind, as Jonathan Hyde calls it, 1141 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,279 Speaker 2: like this idea of like my way is righteous and 1142 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,040 Speaker 2: I believe the way I live and the way I 1143 00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,440 Speaker 2: think is the only way and the right way. And 1144 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,080 Speaker 2: that's where it goes wrong, because the truth is, if 1145 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,800 Speaker 2: everyone thinks like that, now you've just got a you know, 1146 00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:50,400 Speaker 2: eight billion righteous ways. 1147 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,560 Speaker 1: We even have to watch how we express that language, right, 1148 00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,480 Speaker 1: because we all do it. We'll say things like, man, 1149 00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,839 Speaker 1: the way you're seeing that is strange? Are the way 1150 00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,239 Speaker 1: that I can't believe you're seeing things that way? 1151 00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:05,200 Speaker 3: Why? Because they're not seeing it the way you are. 1152 00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,200 Speaker 1: There's probably nothing wrong with the way that individual is 1153 00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,200 Speaker 1: seeing it, But because you think they should see it 1154 00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,760 Speaker 1: the way you are seeing it, you're upset with that person. 1155 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,080 Speaker 1: Are you might have had the expectation, I know I 1156 00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,440 Speaker 1: can call this person because we love we love confirmation 1157 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,759 Speaker 1: by this right, So I know that I can call 1158 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,759 Speaker 1: this person because this person is going to agree with me. 1159 00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:29,359 Speaker 1: And then when you pick up the phone and call 1160 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,799 Speaker 1: that person or text that person and realize that person 1161 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,399 Speaker 1: has a different opinion. Now you're arguing back and forth 1162 00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,399 Speaker 1: with that person, trying to get them to see things 1163 00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,359 Speaker 1: the way you see things. It's like, no, let them 1164 00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,040 Speaker 1: see it the way they want to see it. Like 1165 00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:43,560 Speaker 1: one of the hardest things to do is to get 1166 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,360 Speaker 1: is to step into somebody else's shoes. One of the 1167 00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,600 Speaker 1: hardest things to do is to see things from the 1168 00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:53,160 Speaker 1: perspective of other people. I literally fight myself to do that, 1169 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,200 Speaker 1: and some people might say, oh, he's being a contrarian. No, 1170 00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,680 Speaker 1: I'm just literally I've literally taken the time to step 1171 00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:03,399 Speaker 1: out of myself Steven of that person shoes, see how. 1172 00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,279 Speaker 3: They see it, and I can understand where they're coming from. 1173 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:08,120 Speaker 3: What's wrong with that? 1174 00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't see any I don't see anything wrong 1175 00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:12,840 Speaker 1: with that. And I'm not saying that person is right, 1176 00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,319 Speaker 1: that person's wrong. I'm just simply saying I can see 1177 00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,480 Speaker 1: where that person's coming from. Like I said, multiple things 1178 00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:19,520 Speaker 1: can be true at once. I can think a person's 1179 00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,920 Speaker 1: wrong and still see where they're coming from. I can 1180 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,839 Speaker 1: think a person's right but still see where they're wrong 1181 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:27,560 Speaker 1: at in their argument as well. 1182 00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:29,800 Speaker 3: I think that's very hard for humans to do, and 1183 00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:30,400 Speaker 3: I don't know why. 1184 00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:32,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean talking about calls you talking 1185 00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:34,200 Speaker 2: about in the book, the calls that you get from 1186 00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:38,000 Speaker 2: Kanye Yeah, and that call, like will cuts through how 1187 00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:39,839 Speaker 2: that applies to what you're saying here where you're trying 1188 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,359 Speaker 2: to see things through his perspective. But then year old 1189 00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,040 Speaker 2: select but I know Pete and were friends. 1190 00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:48,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, his perspective was I'm black, he's black. We both 1191 00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,520 Speaker 1: from hip hop culture. He's from hip hop culture. Pete 1192 00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:55,880 Speaker 1: Davidson is this white kid from Staten Island who does comedy. 1193 00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,480 Speaker 3: He's younger than us because we are wearing our forties. 1194 00:55:58,680 --> 00:55:59,680 Speaker 3: He's younger than us. 1195 00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:01,040 Speaker 1: You know, his. 1196 00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,320 Speaker 3: Ex wife is now out here Dayton Pete. 1197 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call Charla Magne because I need Charlemagne to start, 1198 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,640 Speaker 1: you know, siding with me against Pete Davidson. 1199 00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:14,040 Speaker 3: And he should because. 1200 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,320 Speaker 1: He's black and I'm the cultures as Kanye says, and 1201 00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,279 Speaker 1: it's like, no, Pete Davison is my friend. I can 1202 00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:22,200 Speaker 1: care if he's black. I can care if he's white. 1203 00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,319 Speaker 1: I care what race is. I don't care what age 1204 00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,440 Speaker 1: he is. That's somebody that I met when he was 1205 00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:28,880 Speaker 1: sixteen years old, when we was all doing you know, 1206 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,759 Speaker 1: guy cold together, and we developed a real friendship and 1207 00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,200 Speaker 1: a real bond. I know his mother, like, I mean, 1208 00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,239 Speaker 1: me and his mom talk. We check on each other. 1209 00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,239 Speaker 1: I've been in his mom's house. You don't sit in 1210 00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,520 Speaker 1: somebody's mom's house and eat food with eat food with them, 1211 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,319 Speaker 1: and call that person a friend and then turn around 1212 00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,239 Speaker 1: and do snake shit like that. Pete's been to my house, 1213 00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,359 Speaker 1: He's been around my kids, he's been around my wife. 1214 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:50,120 Speaker 3: I know him. 1215 00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,400 Speaker 1: You're not going to call me and get me to 1216 00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:55,759 Speaker 1: turn on my friend and try to, you know, say, 1217 00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:57,680 Speaker 1: because we're black and we're of the coaches. 1218 00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,920 Speaker 3: It's like, no right is right, wrong is wrong. 1219 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:04,000 Speaker 1: And as I told him, you know, and I had 1220 00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,920 Speaker 1: to quote Snoop Dogg from the nineteen nineties, you mad, 1221 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:11,120 Speaker 1: don't be mad at the don't be mad at the player. 1222 00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,279 Speaker 3: Hate the game because your girl chose him. You know, 1223 00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,080 Speaker 3: I didn't say girl. I used some other language. I 1224 00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:17,200 Speaker 3: use the languge Snoop used. 1225 00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,479 Speaker 1: But your girl chose him, and she's a grown woman 1226 00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,440 Speaker 1: making her own decisions. Y'all not together, No more so 1227 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,320 Speaker 1: for me, it's like, you're not gonna call me and 1228 00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:30,680 Speaker 1: try to guilt trip me, you know, using using blackness 1229 00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:34,240 Speaker 1: and hip hop to go against somebody I consider a friend. 1230 00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,920 Speaker 1: Because if I considered you a friend like that, Kanye, 1231 00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:39,280 Speaker 1: nobody could make me do that to you as well, 1232 00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:43,960 Speaker 1: you know, So it's really that simple with me. I 1233 00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:48,040 Speaker 1: don't have you know, I don't have flexible morals and 1234 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,280 Speaker 1: values when it comes to people that I love and 1235 00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:53,600 Speaker 1: when it comes to people that I consider actual friends 1236 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:58,120 Speaker 1: and consider actual family. That's why, you know, betrayal hurts 1237 00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:00,520 Speaker 1: so much. That's why when you realize that, you know, 1238 00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:03,000 Speaker 1: certain people's character gets revealed when they don't get what 1239 00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,760 Speaker 1: they want from you, Like that's something. That's another realization 1240 00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:07,800 Speaker 1: that I've been, you know, having a lot lately. It's 1241 00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:12,440 Speaker 1: just like, I don't know that person wasn't necessarily my 1242 00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:16,479 Speaker 1: friend like I thought they were. They were my friend 1243 00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:21,640 Speaker 1: based on what opportunity was being provided. Yes at the time, yes, right, 1244 00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,600 Speaker 1: And so it's like it's sad, but you do realize 1245 00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:28,880 Speaker 1: some of that stuff is transactional. That's why I say 1246 00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,880 Speaker 1: I'm not mad at being used. Just don't just don't 1247 00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:35,600 Speaker 1: misuse me. And when things don't go your way, don't 1248 00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:38,320 Speaker 1: all of a sudden start you know, kicking my back 1249 00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,600 Speaker 1: end just because things don't go your way, because I'm 1250 00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,680 Speaker 1: not going to do that to you other than you know, 1251 00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:45,440 Speaker 1: I'm lying I would do that to you, meaning that 1252 00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,320 Speaker 1: when I'm around my people, I'm definitely gonna be like 1253 00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,720 Speaker 1: that person is so fucked up, that person is such 1254 00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,120 Speaker 1: a like I cannot believe that that individual did such 1255 00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,240 Speaker 1: and such. But guess what, I can't believe it because 1256 00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,120 Speaker 1: I understand humans. 1257 00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:58,240 Speaker 3: So I give that. 1258 00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:00,960 Speaker 1: I give all of those type of you know, human 1259 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:02,840 Speaker 1: is grace, but you know it does. It's it's very 1260 00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:07,200 Speaker 1: disappointing when you're more solid to a person than they 1261 00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,040 Speaker 1: would be with you. Because if I embrace you and 1262 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:11,920 Speaker 1: I say you my friend, if I say I rock 1263 00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,600 Speaker 1: with you, I'm I'm I'm we're gonna ride to the 1264 00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:15,360 Speaker 1: wheels fall off. 1265 00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally. And I find it's an interesting one 1266 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,600 Speaker 2: because it's like it's it's almost like also it's it's 1267 00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:23,560 Speaker 2: only the people. The only people that attacked you are 1268 00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,160 Speaker 2: the people who you know wanted to do something with 1269 00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,960 Speaker 2: you but it didn't happen. Yes, right, what you're saying 1270 00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,240 Speaker 2: about changing morals, Like, I find like people attack you 1271 00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,040 Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, I want to do a podcast 1272 00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:34,200 Speaker 2: with you, but you didn't want to make it happen, 1273 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:35,640 Speaker 2: so now I'm going to find a way to attack you. 1274 00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:38,720 Speaker 2: It didn't work out, And it's interesting because you go, oh, well, 1275 00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,480 Speaker 2: then it wasn't ever a collaboration, and it wasn't of 1276 00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,720 Speaker 2: high character. It was an opportunity. Now that the opportunity 1277 00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:46,800 Speaker 2: is lost, now you have a different view of this situation. 1278 00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,400 Speaker 2: And and I love that point you made about how 1279 00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,400 Speaker 2: that's why I think opportunities going well or not going 1280 00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,320 Speaker 2: well shows how someone responds to it absolutely right, Like 1281 00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:00,920 Speaker 2: when there's a yes or a no. Someone who actually 1282 01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,160 Speaker 2: responds well to a no and a healthy know again 1283 01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:08,200 Speaker 2: obviously in a way that is communicated effectively. Someone who 1284 01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:11,960 Speaker 2: responds in a positive way to a rejection or a 1285 01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:15,960 Speaker 2: no or a closed door, that person you should keep 1286 01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:16,760 Speaker 2: them around forever. 1287 01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:21,200 Speaker 3: Yo, man, Jay, you hitting it on the head so crazy. Pause. 1288 01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,480 Speaker 1: It's like, do you remember, like, you know, you ever 1289 01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:28,160 Speaker 1: met somebody who's so talented and you say to yourself, 1290 01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,600 Speaker 1: why isn't this person here? 1291 01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:35,000 Speaker 3: Like why isn't this person doing X, Y and Z 1292 01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:36,480 Speaker 3: Because they're so talented. 1293 01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,920 Speaker 1: And then when you start to like get in business 1294 01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:41,920 Speaker 1: with them and you go down the path with them 1295 01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:46,640 Speaker 1: and you start to you know, be around them, you realize, exactly. 1296 01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, they haven't gotten nowhere they need to be. 1297 01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,760 Speaker 1: Because once again, my good friend Marvette Brittle always says, 1298 01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:56,680 Speaker 1: this talent will take you what character can't sustain you. 1299 01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,240 Speaker 1: So you start to see like this person is not 1300 01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:03,120 Speaker 1: really a hard work or this person really is a gossip, 1301 01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,000 Speaker 1: like this person just likes to talk about everybody else 1302 01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,080 Speaker 1: instead of focusing on what they should be focusing on. 1303 01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:11,040 Speaker 1: They're so worried about what everybody else is doing and 1304 01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:12,680 Speaker 1: trying to shoot down what everybody else is doing. And 1305 01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:14,960 Speaker 1: you're trying to tell them, like, don't worry about that, 1306 01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:18,920 Speaker 1: because you know, listen, sometimes jealousy and envy it's natural, right, 1307 01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:22,360 Speaker 1: but don't focus on what's going right for everybody else 1308 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,080 Speaker 1: because you don't know what's going on in their lives. 1309 01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:28,240 Speaker 1: They might be looking like on the surface, like they're 1310 01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:30,000 Speaker 1: winning and things are great, but they might be going 1311 01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:32,280 Speaker 1: home crying every night, Like, don't worry about that. You 1312 01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:35,080 Speaker 1: focus on you, but you see that they can't do that. 1313 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:37,520 Speaker 1: And when things don't go their way, Oh, they become 1314 01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:41,160 Speaker 1: the most they become the worst people. Everybody's the enemy, 1315 01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,120 Speaker 1: everybody's a terrible person. All of these people are out 1316 01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,960 Speaker 1: to get me. Nobody's looking out for me, And you realize, 1317 01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:51,400 Speaker 1: like that's exactly why you're not where you're supposed to be. 1318 01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:53,919 Speaker 1: I've had so many doors closed on me. I've heard 1319 01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,919 Speaker 1: so I've gotten way more knows you know than Yes, 1320 01:01:58,000 --> 01:01:59,280 Speaker 1: it's in my life. 1321 01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:01,200 Speaker 3: I never was bitter about. 1322 01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:02,960 Speaker 1: Any of those nose because I truly believe in God 1323 01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:08,760 Speaker 1: and so whatever God has for me will absolutely positively 1324 01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:09,280 Speaker 1: be for me. 1325 01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,320 Speaker 3: We love saying that, but we don't mean it. You 1326 01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,680 Speaker 3: don't mean it. That's when things don't go right for you. 1327 01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:16,120 Speaker 3: Guess what you say? Why? God? 1328 01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,200 Speaker 1: Why is this thing not happening for me? Because I 1329 01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:21,840 Speaker 1: don't want it to at the moment? Do you trust 1330 01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,520 Speaker 1: me or not? If you don't trust me, I'll be 1331 01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:27,400 Speaker 1: sitting here waiting until you do. And guess what if 1332 01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:32,320 Speaker 1: you never do, God bless literally exactly straight up, God 1333 01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,320 Speaker 1: will be sitting right there. I can bless you at 1334 01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,560 Speaker 1: any moment, but I didn't til you ready. You don't 1335 01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,120 Speaker 1: trust me anyway, So until you find that trust in me, 1336 01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:42,160 Speaker 1: good good luck. 1337 01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:44,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I respect you for that in this I mean 1338 01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,120 Speaker 2: you're always like this off online and offline, but in 1339 01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:51,040 Speaker 2: the book, I really feel like you get honest with us. 1340 01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:54,520 Speaker 2: But you're about your own pain and trauma, but you 1341 01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:56,960 Speaker 2: also to get honest with us about just you know, 1342 01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:58,920 Speaker 2: you're just right now, you're just spitting facts like it's 1343 01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:00,920 Speaker 2: just reality. It's just the way it is. And I 1344 01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:02,240 Speaker 2: think one of the things you talk about is this 1345 01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,320 Speaker 2: desire to like you want to also make a joke 1346 01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:05,800 Speaker 2: when you can, Like you want to make it funny. 1347 01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:07,960 Speaker 2: You want to be able to let it, you know, 1348 01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,280 Speaker 2: let it kind of live in that world. When have 1349 01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,840 Speaker 2: you found it that it works? And when have you 1350 01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:14,840 Speaker 2: found that that doesn't work, Like when you're trying to 1351 01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,120 Speaker 2: make something into being funny or silly or kind of 1352 01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:19,160 Speaker 2: lightning the movie? When have you seen that be effective 1353 01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:25,000 Speaker 2: and ineffective? Probably quite often like way ineffective. I mean, 1354 01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:27,480 Speaker 2: I think it works both ways both times, right because 1355 01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:30,120 Speaker 2: because because like say you do it, if you're in 1356 01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:33,840 Speaker 2: a room full of people, somebody's gonna laugh. But then 1357 01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:35,919 Speaker 2: the person you might be trying to make a laugh 1358 01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,439 Speaker 2: does not want to laugh in that moment, so they're 1359 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:40,400 Speaker 2: the one that's upset. 1360 01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:42,680 Speaker 1: Now you're really in your head like just trying to 1361 01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:44,240 Speaker 1: make this person laugh. I was just trying to do 1362 01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,880 Speaker 1: something good. So now you really like trying to get 1363 01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,960 Speaker 1: this person to just have you know, you're trying to 1364 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,320 Speaker 1: put better energy on this person. Reality is should just 1365 01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,400 Speaker 1: leave that person alone in that moment. Everything does not 1366 01:03:56,520 --> 01:04:00,560 Speaker 1: require a joke. I have not learned that may not ever. 1367 01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:04,120 Speaker 1: I may not ever, you know, learn that I really 1368 01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:06,600 Speaker 1: may not. Like I just feel like I like to 1369 01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:09,200 Speaker 1: be around people who don't take things too serious, even 1370 01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:11,400 Speaker 1: when things are serious, because I don't feel like you can, 1371 01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:15,280 Speaker 1: you know, make really good sound decisions when things are 1372 01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,920 Speaker 1: too serious because emotions are too high. Like sometimes you 1373 01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,560 Speaker 1: gotta like, let's laugh about it, let's joke about it, 1374 01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:24,560 Speaker 1: let's really really really light in the room, and then 1375 01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:27,440 Speaker 1: let's like sit down and try to like figure it out. 1376 01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:29,240 Speaker 1: Like if you are sitting around a whole bunch of 1377 01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:33,720 Speaker 1: people and everybody's angry and everybody's upset, everybody's mad, you 1378 01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:36,840 Speaker 1: just got a team that's about to make a poor decision. Wow, 1379 01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:40,800 Speaker 1: somebody on the team got to just be like, whoa yo, 1380 01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:44,720 Speaker 1: everybody relax here. Somebody got to be the rational one 1381 01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:46,880 Speaker 1: in the room. And most of the time, the rational 1382 01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:50,320 Speaker 1: one in the room is the person that's not they're 1383 01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,880 Speaker 1: taking it serious, but they're just not taking it serious 1384 01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:54,760 Speaker 1: in the way that you want to take it serious. 1385 01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,440 Speaker 1: Cause I'm the type person I'm like, what can I do, 1386 01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:01,360 Speaker 1: Like there's certain situations that you hear about, certain situations 1387 01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:04,600 Speaker 1: you are confronted with in the moment and you realize, like, 1388 01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:07,080 Speaker 1: there's really nothing we can do about this except for 1389 01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:10,840 Speaker 1: let it play out. So while we're letting it play out, 1390 01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:15,800 Speaker 1: let's let's laugh, you know what I'm saying. Let's let's 1391 01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:19,480 Speaker 1: crack some jokes. You ever seen that movie? Uh, don't 1392 01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:19,880 Speaker 1: look up? 1393 01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:22,800 Speaker 2: Yeah of course, ye, yeah, yeah, exactly how they. 1394 01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:23,720 Speaker 3: Handled the End of the World. 1395 01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,479 Speaker 1: That's how like I'm talking about Leonard of the character 1396 01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:29,960 Speaker 1: when they were all at dinner, they were still pouring 1397 01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:34,040 Speaker 1: drinks and they were eating. They knew the inevitable was happening. 1398 01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:37,400 Speaker 1: They knew there was nothing they could do to stop it. 1399 01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,640 Speaker 1: They spent the whole beginning of the movie trying to 1400 01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,800 Speaker 1: stop it, and they accepted fate in that moment, and 1401 01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,880 Speaker 1: they decided, I'm going out like this because they knew 1402 01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:50,520 Speaker 1: there was nothing they could do about it. And I 1403 01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:53,720 Speaker 1: know that that's a movie and it it's probably easier 1404 01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,600 Speaker 1: said than done, but that's what I that's what I 1405 01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:00,200 Speaker 1: described for, Like, even in the face of adversity, even 1406 01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:02,960 Speaker 1: when it seems like you know, chicking little the sky 1407 01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:04,600 Speaker 1: is falling, everything's. 1408 01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:07,479 Speaker 3: Burning down around you. You're like exhibiting that video. 1409 01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:10,640 Speaker 1: He's just walking and everything's burning down and all this 1410 01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:13,560 Speaker 1: bad stuff is happening behind him, but he's just rapping 1411 01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:14,920 Speaker 1: and moving, rapping and moving. 1412 01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:16,360 Speaker 3: It's just like, Yo, that's how I feel like. 1413 01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:19,600 Speaker 1: I want to, you know, constantly live my life and 1414 01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:21,560 Speaker 1: that's the kind of people I want to you know, 1415 01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:23,680 Speaker 1: be around people that keep me in that space. 1416 01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:26,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Last question I ask you, Shelaman before 1417 01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,760 Speaker 2: we wrap up, is and it's interesting because it relates 1418 01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:30,920 Speaker 2: to where you just said, if you want to be 1419 01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:34,800 Speaker 2: around this people, how do we find belonging in a 1420 01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:38,439 Speaker 2: world we don't agree with, but stop ourselves from only 1421 01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:41,480 Speaker 2: being friends with people we agree with? Right? It's like, 1422 01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:43,680 Speaker 2: because right now we look at belonging, It's like, if 1423 01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:48,280 Speaker 2: we agree, then I find belonging. But we both know 1424 01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:49,880 Speaker 2: from what you're saying in the book, from what you're 1425 01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,400 Speaker 2: saying right now, from what you say on your podcast, 1426 01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,520 Speaker 2: from what you say on your show, is like, but 1427 01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:58,919 Speaker 2: you are very comfortable sitting down having uncomfortable, awkward conversations 1428 01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:01,520 Speaker 2: with people who people wouldn't place you with. 1429 01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:01,960 Speaker 3: That's right. 1430 01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:05,160 Speaker 2: From completely different backgrounds, different walks of life, different schools 1431 01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:07,360 Speaker 2: of thought, and you find that to be a very 1432 01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:10,280 Speaker 2: important thing to do. Absolutely, So, how do we find 1433 01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:12,400 Speaker 2: belonging in a way that we're not just creating little 1434 01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:16,160 Speaker 2: echo chambers and little confirmation biased schools where we just 1435 01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,720 Speaker 2: all just say what we think and we all double 1436 01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:20,960 Speaker 2: click on and go yeah, yeah, that thing, that thing. 1437 01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:23,960 Speaker 2: How do we create a culture where which you're doing 1438 01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:26,640 Speaker 2: through your work, through your book, how do you actually 1439 01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:28,720 Speaker 2: do that in your life? Because I think we like 1440 01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:30,520 Speaker 2: to be around people who agree with us. 1441 01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:32,040 Speaker 1: I don't even know if you realize it, but as 1442 01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,680 Speaker 1: you was talking, you refer to you refer to that 1443 01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,240 Speaker 1: stuff as little Yeah, and that's exactly what it is. 1444 01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:37,800 Speaker 3: It's small. 1445 01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:41,200 Speaker 1: That's why it's literally called why small talk sucks you. 1446 01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:47,600 Speaker 1: Macro conversations are big conversations that you can have with anybody. 1447 01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,320 Speaker 1: Like when you put yourself in those small boxes, right 1448 01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:53,440 Speaker 1: when you confine yourself to. 1449 01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:57,400 Speaker 3: Just speaking with the people that you agree with, when. 1450 01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:59,760 Speaker 1: You confine yourself to just being in those echo chambers, 1451 01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:04,320 Speaker 1: those rooms are so small they just seem big because 1452 01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:05,520 Speaker 1: of social media. 1453 01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:07,920 Speaker 3: But that's not how the world works. 1454 01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:12,480 Speaker 1: Yo, There's really there's really not too many people that 1455 01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:14,760 Speaker 1: are going to see the world exactly the way you 1456 01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:17,880 Speaker 1: see it, So that can't be true. All of y'all 1457 01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:20,479 Speaker 1: are aligned to each other because y'all just love the 1458 01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:22,720 Speaker 1: community of each other. Y'all are really a bunch of 1459 01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:26,720 Speaker 1: people who need, you know, support from each other. And 1460 01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:28,680 Speaker 1: y'all want to have a friend group just like all 1461 01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:32,000 Speaker 1: humans do. So y'all are all just going along to 1462 01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,720 Speaker 1: get along with each other. So y'all make this imaginary 1463 01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:39,160 Speaker 1: role book, this imaginary playbook, and y'all have this imaginary 1464 01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,599 Speaker 1: rhetoric that everybody has to say. And if you don't 1465 01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:43,720 Speaker 1: see things like this, if you don't say things like this, 1466 01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:45,880 Speaker 1: then you can't be in this club no more. This 1467 01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:49,280 Speaker 1: club is this big, like that club is so so 1468 01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:53,160 Speaker 1: so so small. So in order to just like understand 1469 01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:56,280 Speaker 1: that you live in a world that you are going 1470 01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:59,320 Speaker 1: to disagree with people, Like I said earlier, I can 1471 01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:05,360 Speaker 1: think you're right, but still not necessarily agree with you. 1472 01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,599 Speaker 1: I can understand where you're coming from, but still think 1473 01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:12,240 Speaker 1: you're wrong. Like I don't understand why we just can't 1474 01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:14,439 Speaker 1: sit down and have more conversations with people and then 1475 01:09:14,479 --> 01:09:18,840 Speaker 1: realize this surface that I saw this individual or this 1476 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,479 Speaker 1: perception of this individual that I had in my head. 1477 01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:23,600 Speaker 1: If you sit down and actually have a conversation with 1478 01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:27,760 Speaker 1: them and listen to the whole totality of everything that 1479 01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:32,000 Speaker 1: they may be saying or experience, you'll never be able 1480 01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:34,040 Speaker 1: to experience the whole totality of a person, but you'll 1481 01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:36,280 Speaker 1: get closer to what you thought. If you just sit 1482 01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:39,920 Speaker 1: down and have a conversation with them, you'll realize, like, Oh, 1483 01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:44,479 Speaker 1: what they're saying isn't necessarily that bad, or oh, I 1484 01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:47,599 Speaker 1: understand why they see things that way. I disagree with them, 1485 01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,680 Speaker 1: but I understand it and I respect they're right to 1486 01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:53,599 Speaker 1: think that. We spend so much time trying to change 1487 01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:58,040 Speaker 1: people's minds because we're trying to make ourselves comfortable. We 1488 01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:00,400 Speaker 1: talk about all of this growth that we want to 1489 01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:02,680 Speaker 1: have as humans, and we talk about how, you know, 1490 01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:07,200 Speaker 1: and we like being uncomfortable because when we're uncomfortable. 1491 01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:09,280 Speaker 3: It's making us grow. We know that we're evolving. 1492 01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,120 Speaker 1: We really don't like growing, and we really don't like 1493 01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:14,800 Speaker 1: being uncomfortable. We get to a certain point, and we 1494 01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:16,519 Speaker 1: all need to admit this. We get to a certain 1495 01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:20,080 Speaker 1: point where we're very comfortable and we don't want anything 1496 01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:25,200 Speaker 1: disrupting this comfort so to have new conversations and to 1497 01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:27,880 Speaker 1: talk to people that we may not necessarily agree with. 1498 01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:32,880 Speaker 1: Oh man, that scares us to death. That scares us 1499 01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:35,240 Speaker 1: to death. But I would say you should be more 1500 01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:40,960 Speaker 1: afraid of not growing. You should be more afraid of 1501 01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:44,120 Speaker 1: thinking that I've gotten to a certain point and I'm 1502 01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:49,519 Speaker 1: fine and cool here. The world is a beautiful place, Jay, 1503 01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:52,880 Speaker 1: Humans are beautiful people, Like, why would you not want 1504 01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:57,640 Speaker 1: to experience everything that God created? Because a lot of 1505 01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:01,120 Speaker 1: these things that we've learned necessarily of God. It's just 1506 01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:03,720 Speaker 1: the things that we've picked up in this world. Some 1507 01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:07,080 Speaker 1: people have picked up things that are different from us. 1508 01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:09,960 Speaker 1: But sometimes when you sit down and you listen to 1509 01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:12,479 Speaker 1: that person and that person shares their experiences, or that 1510 01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:14,880 Speaker 1: person you know, tells you what they've been through that's 1511 01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:18,080 Speaker 1: gotten them to that you know point in life, it 1512 01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:20,960 Speaker 1: can be eye opening. And it's been very eye opening 1513 01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:24,560 Speaker 1: for me throughout my life. Like my best relationships in 1514 01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:27,880 Speaker 1: life have come through me having conversations with people that 1515 01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:31,080 Speaker 1: I necessarily that I that I didn't have anything in 1516 01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:33,760 Speaker 1: common with. One of the greatest, you know, gifts my 1517 01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:34,720 Speaker 1: mother ever gave me. 1518 01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:35,479 Speaker 3: She don't see she was. 1519 01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:37,439 Speaker 1: An English teacher growing up in South Carolina. Like when 1520 01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:38,760 Speaker 1: I was going up in South Carolina, and she told 1521 01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:42,479 Speaker 1: me read things that don't pertain to you. So I'm 1522 01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:46,000 Speaker 1: in the library, I'm reading everything from UFOs, you know, 1523 01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:49,840 Speaker 1: Sasquash to Judy Bloom and Beverly clearly to the point 1524 01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:54,240 Speaker 1: where I'm like, this woman, Judy Bloom is a phenomenal storyteller. 1525 01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:56,720 Speaker 1: So I love Judy Bloom the same way I love Scarface, 1526 01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:58,720 Speaker 1: the same way I love jay Z, the same way 1527 01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,160 Speaker 1: I love ghost Face. She's that love storytelling to me. 1528 01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,760 Speaker 1: And now because of that love of somebody like Judy 1529 01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:08,040 Speaker 1: Bloom and me expressing that she's somebody I actually call 1530 01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,960 Speaker 1: a friend, she's actually somebody that I, you know, have 1531 01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:14,320 Speaker 1: gone down the floorida, you know, kicked it with her 1532 01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:16,080 Speaker 1: and her husband, George, me and my wife, Like I've 1533 01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,040 Speaker 1: been to her bookstore, in her movie theater, like we 1534 01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:19,720 Speaker 1: were just in together in New York a couple of 1535 01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:24,519 Speaker 1: weeks ago. Like that that comes from being open to 1536 01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:29,200 Speaker 1: other people, other experiences and just listening to each other. 1537 01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:31,360 Speaker 1: And that's really what you know, get at us. A 1538 01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:34,000 Speaker 1: die line, while small talk sucks, is really all about 1539 01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:37,320 Speaker 1: It's really about us, you know, getting to listen to 1540 01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:39,639 Speaker 1: each other. That's why I end every chapter by saying, 1541 01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:43,800 Speaker 1: let's discuss, because I want us to have conversations. 1542 01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:46,000 Speaker 3: I'm opening up conversation. 1543 01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:47,599 Speaker 1: I don't want you just to talk to the people 1544 01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:50,040 Speaker 1: that you agree with every day, tear down the walls 1545 01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:52,880 Speaker 1: of that echo chain. Being realized how big the world is. 1546 01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:55,679 Speaker 1: The world is infinite. That's what I want people to get. 1547 01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:58,040 Speaker 1: You know, you know from this from this book. 1548 01:12:58,280 --> 01:12:59,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, just the way you reacted to that, I could 1549 01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,120 Speaker 2: know how deep the topic is for you. It took 1550 01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:03,640 Speaker 2: me a second, but when you said O the way 1551 01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:05,840 Speaker 2: I said it was little, and then you were like, oh, 1552 01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:09,080 Speaker 2: it's actually small talk, like it applies. That showed me 1553 01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:11,160 Speaker 2: just how deep this is running for your veins because 1554 01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:13,559 Speaker 2: you picked up on that. It's like, yeah, I was saying, Yeah, 1555 01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:16,800 Speaker 2: these little groups and these little echo chambers and these 1556 01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:19,719 Speaker 2: little kind of like you know, text threads or message threads, 1557 01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:22,240 Speaker 2: whatever we have done, which is important, just get smaller 1558 01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:24,839 Speaker 2: and smaller and smaller. What's last question, what's the hardest, 1559 01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:27,120 Speaker 2: hardest conversation you've had to have to do a kid 1560 01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:30,439 Speaker 2: so far? So far or the most honest conversation. That's say, 1561 01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:32,080 Speaker 2: not hardest, the most honest conversation. 1562 01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:34,080 Speaker 3: Oh man, that's listen. 1563 01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:36,599 Speaker 1: I got a fifteen year old, an eight year old, 1564 01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:40,559 Speaker 1: a five year old, and a two year old, all girls, 1565 01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:42,280 Speaker 1: so I. 1566 01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:44,160 Speaker 3: Haven't had it yet. They're all hard. 1567 01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:48,960 Speaker 1: I think they're all difficult, Okay, every single one, especially 1568 01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,479 Speaker 1: you know, my fifteen year old because she's a sophomore 1569 01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:55,120 Speaker 1: in high school now, and you know, they're dealing with 1570 01:13:55,320 --> 01:14:00,759 Speaker 1: things that we never even thought of dealing with, like literally, 1571 01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:03,479 Speaker 1: like you know, and we're dealing with adults that we 1572 01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:06,320 Speaker 1: never thought of dealing with. And these kids are smart, 1573 01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:10,519 Speaker 1: Like you know, I remember during COVID, my daughter came 1574 01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:12,240 Speaker 1: to me and she came to me and my wife 1575 01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:14,280 Speaker 1: and she was like she was in tears, and she 1576 01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:18,519 Speaker 1: was just like, ya, I'm overwhelmed, Like I'm overwhelmed, Like 1577 01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:21,599 Speaker 1: this is driving me crazy. You know, my grades is slipping. 1578 01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:24,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, I gave her a hug. I'm like, we 1579 01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:28,080 Speaker 1: are in an unprecedented time right now, Like we're literally 1580 01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:33,240 Speaker 1: at home. I'm at home doing work. You're doing pottery 1581 01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:36,680 Speaker 1: class on the kitchen floor. Do you think I give 1582 01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:41,920 Speaker 1: a damn if your grades slip? At a moment like this, like, 1583 01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:43,639 Speaker 1: I don't care about any of that, But what made 1584 01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:45,759 Speaker 1: me proud in that moment was she had the language 1585 01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:48,519 Speaker 1: because you know, she's she's she's been the therapy. Not 1586 01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:51,600 Speaker 1: because anything's necessarily wrong. I'm just I'm just realizing that 1587 01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:54,760 Speaker 1: we're in an unprecedented time. Like they these kids deal 1588 01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:56,160 Speaker 1: with things that we don't have to deal with. So 1589 01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:58,679 Speaker 1: I want them. I want her to have the tools 1590 01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,960 Speaker 1: and the language early because I'm just the person still 1591 01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:04,000 Speaker 1: going through it myself. Her mom is a person still 1592 01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:05,439 Speaker 1: going through it herselves. So I want her to sit 1593 01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:07,920 Speaker 1: down and you know, talk to experts. So but just 1594 01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:11,840 Speaker 1: the fact she had the language. So when you say 1595 01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:16,200 Speaker 1: difficult conversations, honestly, the difficult conversations come from. 1596 01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:20,160 Speaker 3: Me having to check my ego as a parent because 1597 01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:20,920 Speaker 3: I'm forty. 1598 01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:25,040 Speaker 1: Five and I believe this little fifteen year old doesn't 1599 01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,400 Speaker 1: know anything yet she knows a whole lot and she can. 1600 01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:32,599 Speaker 1: She's teaching me, you know, a whole lot. Like there's 1601 01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:34,720 Speaker 1: some things that change, there's some things that stay the 1602 01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:36,680 Speaker 1: same in this world, but there's a whole lot that 1603 01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:40,200 Speaker 1: has changed. And I think that you know, we we 1604 01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:46,120 Speaker 1: we sometimes are too stubborn to realize that. And so, yeah, 1605 01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:48,080 Speaker 1: I guess they answer your question. Every day is a 1606 01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:51,760 Speaker 1: difficult conversation. She got four girls. Every day is a 1607 01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:54,680 Speaker 1: difficult conversation. Like, I'm dealing with a different set of 1608 01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:59,240 Speaker 1: emotions every single day. The biggest thing for me is 1609 01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:04,920 Speaker 1: to stay centered, insane, and you know, not let my emotions. 1610 01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:05,040 Speaker 3: Get the best of me. 1611 01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:06,960 Speaker 1: Like, that's one of the biggest conversations me and my 1612 01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:10,519 Speaker 1: wife constantly have, Like we get together in our little 1613 01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:13,600 Speaker 1: prayer circles and huddle together like we are doing the 1614 01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:14,599 Speaker 1: best we can. 1615 01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:16,799 Speaker 3: I literally touch so funny I told you this yesterday. 1616 01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:19,599 Speaker 1: I was like, yo, you know, we've been together twenty 1617 01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:24,600 Speaker 1: six years and we've experienced so many different levels of 1618 01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,960 Speaker 1: life together. And so what I said to her, I 1619 01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:31,160 Speaker 1: was like, yo, the other we also realized, twenty six 1620 01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:35,840 Speaker 1: years go by fast. So regardless of how scretched out 1621 01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:40,240 Speaker 1: we get because of these children, let's enjoy the moment. 1622 01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:43,720 Speaker 1: Like literally, let's just enjoy the moment. We are doing 1623 01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:46,880 Speaker 1: the best we can. There is no manual that comes 1624 01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:50,000 Speaker 1: with this. You don't want to take everything you learn 1625 01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:52,320 Speaker 1: from your parents because you realize they didn't have all 1626 01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:55,080 Speaker 1: of the proper tools, and they didn't necessarily, you know, 1627 01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:57,479 Speaker 1: instill the right things in us, at least from a 1628 01:16:57,600 --> 01:17:00,680 Speaker 1: man's perspective. My mom, I felt was phenomenal, at least 1629 01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:02,840 Speaker 1: from a mass perspective. You know, I didn't have that. 1630 01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:05,519 Speaker 1: So we're just all doing the best we can. So 1631 01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:07,600 Speaker 1: let's just give each other some grace. Man and like 1632 01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:12,639 Speaker 1: and enjoyed his ride called Adulthood. 1633 01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:16,280 Speaker 2: Absolutely every one the book, it's called Get Honest or Dieline. 1634 01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:18,559 Speaker 2: You can get it right now. Why small talk sucks? 1635 01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:20,240 Speaker 2: Sell them and the God this is the book that 1636 01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:22,080 Speaker 2: I want you to get. Discuss it with your friends 1637 01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:25,599 Speaker 2: that sect it, allow it to infuse into reality. I've 1638 01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:29,680 Speaker 2: been really really happy that his books out because I 1639 01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:33,800 Speaker 2: spent last Christmas in London, which is what I usually do, 1640 01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:36,800 Speaker 2: and I started to find that even friends I've had 1641 01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:39,479 Speaker 2: for a couple of decades, I found that we were 1642 01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:43,000 Speaker 2: becoming less and less honest with each other, and I 1643 01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:45,839 Speaker 2: was feeling really disconnected. When I was back at Christmas 1644 01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:47,800 Speaker 2: and I was trying to figure out what it was, 1645 01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:49,040 Speaker 2: I was like, wait, a minute, is it because I 1646 01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:51,120 Speaker 2: left eight years ago and I've been living in the States. 1647 01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,320 Speaker 2: Is it because of this? Is this, and I realized 1648 01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:58,920 Speaker 2: it was honesty, and so I started to create conversations 1649 01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:03,240 Speaker 2: in my friends grew that were uncomfortable. And when I 1650 01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:05,240 Speaker 2: saw that you'd written this book, I was so moved 1651 01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:07,240 Speaker 2: by it because I was like, that was the exact 1652 01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:10,559 Speaker 2: issue that I felt I was moving further away from 1653 01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:13,160 Speaker 2: the people I was closest to because we were all 1654 01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:15,960 Speaker 2: now just playing a role, and everyone's playing their part. 1655 01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:18,600 Speaker 2: But there was no longer a get honest conversation. It 1656 01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:21,280 Speaker 2: was all small talk. And so I really hope that 1657 01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:24,439 Speaker 2: this conversation inspires people to get closer to the people 1658 01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:28,000 Speaker 2: you already think you're close to, right, and understand the 1659 01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:29,360 Speaker 2: people that you're far away from. 1660 01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:29,840 Speaker 3: That's right. 1661 01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:32,400 Speaker 2: And so the book is called get Honest or Die Lying, 1662 01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:35,000 Speaker 2: Why small talk sucks? Right, can grab it right now. 1663 01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:36,519 Speaker 2: We'll put it in the comments and the link in 1664 01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:39,479 Speaker 2: the caption. Charlamagne, thank you so much again, man. As always, 1665 01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:40,920 Speaker 2: I appreciate these conversations. 1666 01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:42,040 Speaker 3: I appreciate you time. 1667 01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:42,240 Speaker 4: Man. 1668 01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:45,360 Speaker 1: We always have macro conversations on air off air, and 1669 01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:47,880 Speaker 1: I mean, just what you've built with this platform on purpose, 1670 01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:51,360 Speaker 1: it is so necessary, man, Like you know, everybody's having 1671 01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:54,639 Speaker 1: these conversations about mindfulness and you know, wellness, and we're 1672 01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:56,720 Speaker 1: all just trying to be the best versions of ourselves. 1673 01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:00,800 Speaker 1: Something like this didn't exist five years ago, Like those 1674 01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:04,280 Speaker 1: conversations that people are having now weren't necessarily as loud 1675 01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:07,120 Speaker 1: as they were, you know, as loud five years ago 1676 01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:10,320 Speaker 1: as they are now. And your platform on purpose is 1677 01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:14,040 Speaker 1: a big, big, big, huge part of that. So thank 1678 01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:16,559 Speaker 1: you for your service, brother, Thank you. I appreciate you, absolutely, 1679 01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:16,760 Speaker 1: thank you. 1680 01:19:17,240 --> 01:19:19,880 Speaker 2: If this is the year that you're trying to get creative, 1681 01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:22,559 Speaker 2: you're trying to build more, I need you to listen 1682 01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:25,479 Speaker 2: to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break 1683 01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:29,719 Speaker 2: into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods 1684 01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:33,599 Speaker 2: that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving 1685 01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:36,160 Speaker 2: what you do. If you're trying to find your passion 1686 01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:39,640 Speaker 2: and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you. 1687 01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:42,360 Speaker 4: Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value, 1688 01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:45,120 Speaker 4: Like as an artist, if you like it, that's all 1689 01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:48,760 Speaker 4: of the value. That's the success comes when you say 1690 01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:51,240 Speaker 4: I like this enough for other people to see it. 1691 01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:56,600 Speaker 2: For Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm partnering up with the 1692 01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:59,160 Speaker 2: National Alliance of Mental Illness Know Me. 1693 01:19:59,400 --> 01:19:59,880 Speaker 3: If you were so. 1694 01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,519 Speaker 2: Some one you know is struggling with mental health, there 1695 01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:07,160 Speaker 2: is help. Call Namie Helpline at eight hundred nine fifty NAMI, 1696 01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:11,920 Speaker 2: or go to www. Dot name dot org, forward slash help, 1697 01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:15,640 Speaker 2: or text Helpline to six two six four zero for 1698 01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:19,000 Speaker 2: immediate twenty four to seven crisis support. Call your text 1699 01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:23,639 Speaker 2: nine eight eight or visit www. Dot nine eight eight 1700 01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:25,240 Speaker 2: lifeline dot org