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Speaker 1: Ah beat Force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

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Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, military

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Speaker 1: news and straight talk with the guys and the community

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Speaker 1: soft Rep Radio on Time on Target, episode number four

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Speaker 1: hundred sixty eight. Dennis Jones. That's Jack Murphy. How are you, sir.

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Speaker 1: I'm good. How are you? I'm well? Thank you. Um.

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Speaker 1: We never gave away who's coming on today. We teased

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Speaker 1: it and I'm excited. I know you certainly are. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's uh. I mean, this gentleman was in the military

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Speaker 1: for a long time. His name's Jason Bailey. Uh. Served

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Speaker 1: an Army counter terrorism unit for a long time. I

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Speaker 1: think he's in like what's I think he's in the

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Speaker 1: Army for years in the Army seventeen years and across

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Speaker 1: uh different special operations units. Um. Yeah, So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: very interesting guy, very interesting career. We had we had

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Speaker 1: a phone conversation a while back, just he wanted to

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Speaker 1: kind of get a feel for what we would talk about. Um.

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Speaker 1: It just seems like a super smart guy, really good dude. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I'm I'm excited to have him on. And he

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Speaker 1: was most notably in the Battle of Mogadishu. Yeah, he was,

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Speaker 1: among many other things. So we'll touch upon a lot

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Speaker 1: of that, or we'll touch upon as much of it

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Speaker 1: as we can. Um, we might have to actually, I

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Speaker 1: might actually have to ask him to come on for

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Speaker 1: a second appearance at some point, because just somebody who's

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Speaker 1: done as much as he has. Yeah, I mean, twenty

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Speaker 1: five years in the military, that's that's a lot to

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Speaker 1: cover it. And and also out of the military. I

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Speaker 1: mean we talked a lot about like transitioning out of

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Speaker 1: the military and some of the difficulties that that even

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Speaker 1: he had um transitioning out. So there's a lot to

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Speaker 1: talk about there, which is I mean, he'll be on

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Speaker 1: later in this episode, so you guys will enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say hopefully you will. You will. I

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Speaker 1: can assure you of that he is. It's going to

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Speaker 1: be quite an interview as we've had the past few

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Speaker 1: I mean we've been rolled. I mean, as we say

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Speaker 1: the they're all uh listener requests. I feel like for

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Speaker 1: the most part, right outside, did you now you got

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Speaker 1: Jason on your own right? Uh? No, a listener brought said,

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Speaker 1: a listener came here. You said, this is the guy

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Speaker 1: you need to talk to because he worked with Jason

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Speaker 1: on the civilian side. UM, it was like, this is

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Speaker 1: the guy you really need to talk to. UM, So

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Speaker 1: I reached out to him and UM, and of course

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Speaker 1: there's some people in common, you know Jason, I think

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Speaker 1: he said he went through O t C with George Hand,

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Speaker 1: another get previous guests of the show. He served alongside

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Speaker 1: Rob Trevino, another former guest of the show. UM for

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Speaker 1: Radio Popular. Yeah, So, I mean, it's just it's funny

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Speaker 1: when you start talking to these people and all the

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Speaker 1: all the all the different personalities that that you end

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Speaker 1: up having in common with them. UM. I actually reached

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Speaker 1: out to another friend of mine who is a retired

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Speaker 1: operator who I won't say his name here, but um,

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Speaker 1: another guy who probably has like twenty seven years of

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Speaker 1: experience in the special operations world. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: it's like, hey, man, do you do you know Jason Bailey.

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Speaker 1: He's like, I've known Jason for decades. He's a great person,

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Speaker 1: great American. And to get it to hear that from

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Speaker 1: from this guy that I hit up about it, I

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Speaker 1: mean says a lot. Yeah. I feel like military men

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Speaker 1: don't throw the term great American loosely. No, especially not

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Speaker 1: this guy wouldn't um So, I mean, I'm probably embarrassing

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Speaker 1: Jason already before we even have him on. But um,

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Speaker 1: he just came very highly recommended, which coming from other people, like,

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Speaker 1: that's the highest praise you can get. Hey, you should

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Speaker 1: have him on for X, Y and Z reasons. All Right,

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Speaker 1: We we did the homework and Jason will be on

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Speaker 1: later before we get to Jason. Um. As the listeners know,

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Speaker 1: we record on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and then the episode

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Speaker 1: is uploaded on Wednesdays and Fridays. So this past Thursday

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Speaker 1: we recorded and unfortunately for us um so this is

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Speaker 1: a little bit of old news. But the Eddie Gallagher

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Speaker 1: trial is going on major uh controversy. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what to call it, but it almost a scene out

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Speaker 1: of a movie. Was uh what was his name? Corey Scott?

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Speaker 1: What was he? Special Warfare Operator first Class? Corey Scott

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Speaker 1: claims that Eddie Gallagher didn't kill the guy the isis detaining.

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Speaker 1: He said he did it himself. Mercy killed him. He

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Speaker 1: said that Gallagher stabbed him, yes, and they had him stabilized.

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Speaker 1: But after realizing what, um, what the E R D

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Speaker 1: he's he's seen them rape and um like torture prisoners

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Speaker 1: in the past. The r D is like Iraqi Special

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Speaker 1: Operations Unit that we trained and worked with. He's seen them,

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Speaker 1: he said, he's seen them, uh rape and torture people

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Speaker 1: in the PET detainees in the past. So he he

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Speaker 1: feared that that was going to happen to this isis

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Speaker 1: sold her. So he did the old thumb over the

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Speaker 1: breathing tube trick and it asphixiated him that. So that

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Speaker 1: was just I was just wild, um. And what it

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Speaker 1: what it all does is you have to keep in

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Speaker 1: mind that in America, the way our justice system works

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Speaker 1: is we convict people if we believe, if the jurors

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Speaker 1: believe that they're guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: not guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, beyond a

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Speaker 1: reasonable doubt. When you have the medic who was the prosecutors,

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Speaker 1: he was a prosecution witness, they put him on the

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Speaker 1: stand and they asked him, you know, did you see

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Speaker 1: Chief Gallagher uh murder or I be no, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: It was during cross examination and the defense lawyer uh said,

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Speaker 1: you know, did Chief Gallagher murder? This detainee and he's like, no,

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Speaker 1: he said, who did? And then this is where he

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Speaker 1: tells a story about how he put his thumb over

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Speaker 1: the breathing tube and finished him. Now Gallagher is being

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Speaker 1: charged with murder, the murder of this kid. He's not

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Speaker 1: being charged with manslaughter or accomplished to murder or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. It's being charged with murder. And now here's

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Speaker 1: the prosecution's witness saying no, I killed him. Uh So

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Speaker 1: this introduces from I know, I don't have any more

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Speaker 1: knowledge than what I read in the papers, like the

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Speaker 1: rest of you guys out there, I'm not a juror.

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Speaker 1: I don't have all the information that they have. But

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Speaker 1: on the outside looking in, this introduces reasonable doubt for sure. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because you have other witnesses who say, yes, Chief Gallagher

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Speaker 1: murdered this detainee. And then you have the medic who

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Speaker 1: said no, I did it. It's like, what do you

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Speaker 1: I mean? Now you have to wonder like what's true?

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Speaker 1: Now is it true that this this witness who this

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Speaker 1: medic is lying. Yeah, it's possible, especially considering he has immunity.

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Speaker 1: He was given immunity for his um his testimony. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna be interesting to see if they decided to charge

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Speaker 1: him or not be is they'd have to prove perjury.

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Speaker 1: But jeez, I don't even know how that's gonna go.

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Speaker 1: But I think, yeah, if you're if you're a juror,

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Speaker 1: now you have to wonder who's telling the truth here

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Speaker 1: because it's all based really the as far as I

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Speaker 1: can tell, the entire case is based on witness testimony,

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Speaker 1: and it is really hard to get a conviction solely

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Speaker 1: based on witness testimony. At this point, it's called um

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Speaker 1: you can read about it's like prosecutors call it the

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Speaker 1: c s I effect that jurors from what they see

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Speaker 1: on television watching like CSI Vegas and all this stuff

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Speaker 1: that they expect like forensic evidence for everything, like I

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Speaker 1: need like science, I need d N a evidence for everything.

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Speaker 1: And again we convict based on whether the person is

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Speaker 1: deemed to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, not beyond

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Speaker 1: a shadow of it out. So you don't need DNA

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Speaker 1: to convict. But it is in the minds of jurors

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Speaker 1: apparently that they want to see that that standard of

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Speaker 1: evidence before convicting. This case appears to be based largely,

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Speaker 1: if not entirely on witness testimony, and now even your

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Speaker 1: witnesses are telling wildly different stories, which is like to

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Speaker 1: be in that courtroom. I mean obviously neither of us were,

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Speaker 1: but just that that's a bombshell, like you were not

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Speaker 1: expecting that. And he did you see him kill? Did

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Speaker 1: you see Gallagher killed? No? And it's like wait, what

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Speaker 1: what did you think? You said? No, it's like you

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Speaker 1: almost picture like a few good men were you got

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Speaker 1: damn right? Or the code read. It's like it's one

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Speaker 1: of those moments like no, I killed him, and it

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Speaker 1: was like wait, wait you killed him? And then he

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Speaker 1: you know, he stabbed him. We stabilized him, but this

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Speaker 1: guy was gonna get you know, he's gonna get ship

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Speaker 1: stomped in and whenever we hand them over. So I

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Speaker 1: did him, you know, I did him a favor And

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Speaker 1: it's like wait what then you've been sitting on this

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Speaker 1: for how long? Like and and apparently, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: I guess there's gonna have to be some like massive

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Speaker 1: or there needs to be some sort of like massive

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Speaker 1: like sort of after action review or i g. Investigational.

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Speaker 1: How did the prosecution funk all of this up so bad? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they should all this. These witnesses are supposed to be

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Speaker 1: vetted before they go on the stand. Um. Unless the

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Speaker 1: guy totally just changed his story, then then you're looking

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Speaker 1: at perjury. Um. And then but then there are other

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Speaker 1: things the prosecution did the whole like um uh, supposedly

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Speaker 1: putting tracking software and emails and the lead prosecutor was

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Speaker 1: removed just like a week before the trial. Like that's

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Speaker 1: not a small thing to have the lead prosecution. Now.

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Speaker 1: I Like, on one hand, it's like, okay, so you

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Speaker 1: have software that told you if an email was opened.

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Speaker 1: I don't really totally understand what the context was. Um.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that the judge looked at it with

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Speaker 1: all the information and the judge made a determination that

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Speaker 1: the lead prosecutor need to be removed, like there was

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Speaker 1: something there. There's something serious And it's not a small

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Speaker 1: thing for the lead prosecutor to be removed a week

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Speaker 1: before the trial or the court martial. Um. I mean

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Speaker 1: that that prosecutor who was removed, I mean he'll probably

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Speaker 1: we never prosecute another case again. I mean his career

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Speaker 1: is probably tanked most likely. Yes, yea, so good lord.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's a scene like it's a scene out

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Speaker 1: of like a television is like that just seeing I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, we record, like I said, we record on Thursday.

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Speaker 1: So you go home and it's like all over the news.

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Speaker 1: It's like wait what like he you can't even wrap

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Speaker 1: your head around. I mean. And then there's been um

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Speaker 1: other other seals who have been called to the stand

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Speaker 1: over the last few days, UM to testify about UM

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Speaker 1: Chief Gallagher allegedly shooting civilians from the sniper tower, uh

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Speaker 1: whatever it was, wherever the sniper hide was, UM. And

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Speaker 1: they were up there and they said that Gallagher was

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Speaker 1: shooting civilians, UM, that he like shot an old man,

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Speaker 1: or he was shooting at an old man, that he

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Speaker 1: shot a girl. UM. And then he'd come over the

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Speaker 1: radio and say like, you know, you guys missed him,

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Speaker 1: but I got him. And then the defense tried to

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Speaker 1: poke holes in it. They're like, well, so you were

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Speaker 1: in a different tower, you were in a different sniper hide,

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Speaker 1: so you didn't see him pull the trigger. I mean

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Speaker 1: that's what that's what defense attorneys DoD. Yeah. Yeah, well

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Speaker 1: in that case, I would say, again on the outside

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Speaker 1: looking in, you have not given me reasonable doubt, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: do I really believe that some ninja snuck into that

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Speaker 1: same sniper hide and and like pull the trigger on

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Speaker 1: Chief gallagher sniper rifle. Like do I believe that there's

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Speaker 1: no In my opinion, there's not a reasonable doubt in

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Speaker 1: that case. But I mean that's for the jury to decide.

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Speaker 1: It's a jury will have to speak on this issue.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that there is uh contrary evidence, you know,

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Speaker 1: going back and forth, that there are holes in in

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Speaker 1: in everyone's story quite frankly, like some sort of Raschaman

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Speaker 1: type situation, I think just speaks to the fact that

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Speaker 1: this case really did need to go to court martial,

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Speaker 1: and it really did need to be pro secuted, and

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Speaker 1: the witnesses needed to testify, the evidence needed to come out.

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Speaker 1: And um, you know, if if Chief Gallagher's deemed innocent,

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Speaker 1: then it's a travesty really that he was put through

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Speaker 1: this um. And again, I think that there has to

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Speaker 1: be like a full blown investigation into how the military

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Speaker 1: gathers evidence and interviews witnesses and prosecutes crime. Um. But

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Speaker 1: they may come back with a guilty verdict. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we still don't know, now I wanna. I don't know

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Speaker 1: law that well, and I don't know I took one

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Speaker 1: semester of business law college and I'm not afraid to

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Speaker 1: use it. All right, Well, good because I'm gonna put

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Speaker 1: you to test right now. So so with Corey Scott,

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Speaker 1: um immunity covers him for for the murder of this guy.

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Speaker 1: Right now, what happens like if it turns out, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's if it is perjury, he can get charged for

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Speaker 1: the perjury. I believe he can. I believe he can. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but um, they're gonna have to prove that right obviously, right,

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Speaker 1: and the prosecution's track record doesn't seem so great right now, certainly,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? So who knows? Man, because

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Speaker 1: that you know this is this is one of your

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Speaker 1: witnesses and he's sitting like he's just sitting this whole

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Speaker 1: time like I killed, Like you don't think you would

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Speaker 1: bring that up to the to the like probably probably

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Speaker 1: not because there's also that I don't want to say,

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theory. But what if he's looking out for well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's always the the doubt, right, that's the that's

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Speaker 1: kind of the other side of reasonable doubt is because

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Speaker 1: even the prosecutors asked him like you know, maybe you

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Speaker 1: just don't want Eddie Gallager to go to jail, and

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Speaker 1: and this guy, Corey Scott was I don't want doesn't

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Speaker 1: So is it is it possible he's lying? It's it's possible.

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Speaker 1: I mean I don't know. I wasn't there. I didn't

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Speaker 1: see him put his thumb over the over the tube,

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Speaker 1: so maybe it's. Uh, it's wild man. I mean stand

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Speaker 1: by because the made for TV movie is coming, the

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Speaker 1: book is coming. Absolutely. Uh. You know, some of the

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Speaker 1: people involved in this trial are gonna end up like

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Speaker 1: news commentators on Nancy Grace, like the like the O. J.

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Speaker 1: Simpson trial, crick did you see them too? They had again,

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Speaker 1: now who knows when this really took place, but they

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Speaker 1: had drone footage of the alleged isis guy dead on

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Speaker 1: the ground and seals around him, and one guy was

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Speaker 1: like playing with a drone and he's kind of like

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Speaker 1: hovering it over like that. It's you can see the

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Speaker 1: dead body in the video like clear as day. They

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Speaker 1: got a they got a blanket over him, but like

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Speaker 1: his feet are out, his arms out, and he's just

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Speaker 1: the guys just flying the drone and they're saying it

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Speaker 1: was this is the guy that allegedly Eddie Gallagher killed.

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Speaker 1: But then it was like right then, it's like there's

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Speaker 1: no time stamps, there's no nothing like that. Like you're

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Speaker 1: what you're bringing to light is like a inconclusive. It's

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Speaker 1: very inconclusive. There's nothing, there's nothing. You just see guys walking.

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Speaker 1: You can't really tell. I think what we can say

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Speaker 1: for sure based on what has come out, is that

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Speaker 1: this steel platoon was completely out of control, Like they're

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Speaker 1: just gonzo out of control, stupid shit happening long and right,

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Speaker 1: like this was not What was going on in that

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Speaker 1: platoon was not professional. And I understand, like we have

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Speaker 1: our moments of immaturity. Uh, certainly, I do. You know,

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Speaker 1: I did when I was in the military, But this

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Speaker 1: is like out of control, like just like crazy stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, just whatever happened, whether Eddie Gallagher did or

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Speaker 1: did not do any of this stuff that there their

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Speaker 1: officer was up on the rooftop dja ing while they

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Speaker 1: were all drinking, and then they'd go and like shoot

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Speaker 1: at civilians from the sniper hide. Like what the fuck

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Speaker 1: do you got what? No, I mean, you would You're

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Speaker 1: the man to answer this, Like how how does something

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Speaker 1: like that happen. It's just like the it's culture. It's

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Speaker 1: a cultural issue and it uh, it depends strongly on

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Speaker 1: the leadership and that I'm gonna say, and their personalities,

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Speaker 1: the personalities of the leaders, right, Like I think back

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Speaker 1: to Ben Blum talking about his his cousin and it's

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Speaker 1: how it's just like you know, you get a crazy

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Speaker 1: leader and it almost trickles down and it's like, all right,

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Speaker 1: this guy's nuts. Like I guess we have to be nuts.

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Speaker 1: And it gives permission to every right, Like you know,

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Speaker 1: if your inmates and running the asylum. Yeah, if you're

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Speaker 1: chief or your in the an army would be our

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Speaker 1: calatoon sergeant is just like an out of control dude

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Speaker 1: who does whatever and just kills whoever. I mean that

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Speaker 1: that sends a message to his men this is the

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Speaker 1: wild West, Like you can do what you want free

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Speaker 1: for all. So yeah, man, it's definitely an issue of

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Speaker 1: unique culture um, and it's an issue of the specific

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Speaker 1: personalities that are in charge. Now does like you can't

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Speaker 1: really remedy that the because you can't account with accountability

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Speaker 1: for sure, but but in the sense that like you

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Speaker 1: can't you can't prevent it, almost like pre crime, like

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Speaker 1: what was the minority report you there's no way of

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe there is a way of knowing, like

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Speaker 1: I've asked you, especially I remember asking with Ben, But like,

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Speaker 1: can you tell who's gonna be like a good leader

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Speaker 1: or not? Or you can you kind of can you

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Speaker 1: kind of fake your way through it and then let

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Speaker 1: your troopers like, you know, all right, Look, I want

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Speaker 1: to be a platoon sergeant, you know, keep my head

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Speaker 1: on straight, let me get through, and then I could

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Speaker 1: like and then once I'm in power, I can kind

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Speaker 1: of do what I want. Or or these guys just

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Speaker 1: something's wrong from jump. I mean, it depends on the

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Speaker 1: on the person. I think like that guy Um, Elliott

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Speaker 1: Sommers who was involved in that that the team leader

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Speaker 1: who instigated the bank robbery in Tacoma, the ranger that

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Speaker 1: we talked about with Ben Blum. I don't think that

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Speaker 1: guy would have gone very far past team leader, UM

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Speaker 1: because I don't think he seems like he's a legitimate

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Speaker 1: diagnosed uh psycho a path. I don't think you could

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Speaker 1: fake the funk to get to that level. Um. But

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Speaker 1: there are various levels of being like a sociopath that

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Speaker 1: you can actually thrive in the military because of this part,

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Speaker 1: like if you can, you know, hide one personality or

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Speaker 1: have the wherewithal to be like, look, you know, I

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Speaker 1: know who I am. They don't need to see it

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Speaker 1: until a lot of it isn't hiding it though. I

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Speaker 1: think it's just, you know, the military has been hurting

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Speaker 1: after you know, seventeen eighteen years of war. The force

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Speaker 1: is kind of fraid some things are coming apart of

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Speaker 1: the seams. Um, I don't I don't think it's quite

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Speaker 1: as hard to get promoted through the ranks as some

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Speaker 1: people think. Um, you know, there there there's a certain

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Speaker 1: the military has a certain desperation. And I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know that comment won't necessarily go over well. But and

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Speaker 1: there are many many professional n c o s and

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Speaker 1: officers out there. Uh but dude, it's like there there

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Speaker 1: are quotas we have to phil Now, the military does

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Speaker 1: have the benefit of um evaluating people as they rise

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Speaker 1: through the ranks. So it's not like you're getting an

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Speaker 1: unknown product. Right. So this person, you know, like speaking

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Speaker 1: in the army rank system, Uh, you know, this person

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Speaker 1: was a team leader and then they were a squad leader,

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Speaker 1: and then they became a platoon sergeant. So like we

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Speaker 1: have opportunities to look at them and look at their personalities,

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Speaker 1: Like before you become a sergeant major, so you would

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Speaker 1: go from platoon sergeant to first sergeant and then sergeant major.

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Speaker 1: And like I've even had people tell me like there's

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Speaker 1: there is a sergeants major mafia, and they look at

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Speaker 1: you to see if you're the type of personality that

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Speaker 1: they want to promote the sergeant major. UM. So they

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Speaker 1: do look at you in that in that sense, But

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Speaker 1: then also we have to say, like, is this like

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Speaker 1: out of control behavior? Is the um whatever Chief Gallagher

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Speaker 1: did or did not do overseas? I mean, is that

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Speaker 1: type of person that we're discussing, the person who's like

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Speaker 1: a psychopath, is that common in the ranks? Um? I

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Speaker 1: would stop short of saying that I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's the case, but I think those people are

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Speaker 1: out there for sure. And UM, where was I going

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Speaker 1: with that? Sorry? I lost my train of thought, But

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Speaker 1: I think he answered my question took it a little farther,

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Speaker 1: So I don't know where. I don't know where you're

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Speaker 1: going because it was your train of thought. But we

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Speaker 1: can get off at this stop here. The train the

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Speaker 1: train will end here. Um. Yeah, I mean I guess

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Speaker 1: it circles back to Eddie Gallagher. This whole thing is

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Speaker 1: just fascinating in the sense that and so calm initiating

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Speaker 1: that like ethics review across the force. UM. And I

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Speaker 1: don't think that was based on this necessarily, but on

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Speaker 1: also everything going on with Logan Melgar was killed in

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Speaker 1: Molly by a couple a couple of Deaf Group guys

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Speaker 1: and a couple of Marine raiders were involved in that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if there's a bunch of different things happening

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Speaker 1: that lead you to believe that there's some sort of

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Speaker 1: systemic breakdown in the force, put it that way, okay, Um,

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Speaker 1: what like what can be done? Then? What how do

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Speaker 1: you repair that? I think by having standards and I

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Speaker 1: think by having accountability. Um. I think that these units

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Speaker 1: have uh they have to have in a spree decor,

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Speaker 1: especially in elite units, and something has to be done

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Speaker 1: for the uh both the morale of the troops um,

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Speaker 1: their mental health, as we talked about last time on

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Speaker 1: the last episode. UM. And it's also it's just it's

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Speaker 1: a matter of like the work environment, it's a matter

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Speaker 1: of the personalities that you promote it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: question of ethical leadership, is really what what's at the

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Speaker 1: heart of it? Now? How do you I'm just asking

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Speaker 1: questions here, So if you don't have answers, you don't

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Speaker 1: have answers. But I mean it, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: say it's like a boys club, but you want accountability.

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Speaker 1: But it goes back to like, what's what Stephen said

398
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Speaker 1: last episode? How ow you know when everything went down

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Speaker 1: with the Pat Tilman stuff, and the higher ups were

400
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Speaker 1: just kind of like, here's the story we're gonna tell. Sorry, Stephen,

401
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Speaker 1: Like you're getting thrown under the rug, Like you're gonna

402
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Speaker 1: have to deal with it. How do you get it

403
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 1: so that the higher ups are held accountable? Like that's

404
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 1: they almost it almost feels like they always they always

405
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Speaker 1: have that safety blanket like at the very least, we're

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00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 1: gonna cover our own ass and whoever fall river falls under.

407
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Speaker 1: That happens all the time. I mean, I think one

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Speaker 1: of the things that has happened is that it used

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Speaker 1: to be that n c O is that the noncommissioned

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Speaker 1: officers would push back against stupid ship. What has happened

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Speaker 1: since the war broke out, I feel is that the

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Speaker 1: Garrison world, the Garrison life, and that control from these

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Speaker 1: from the brass has gotten more and more and more restrictive,

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Speaker 1: and the n c o s have kind of stopped

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Speaker 1: pushing back because they're like, oh, we're going to war,

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Speaker 1: so like all that stuff is gonna go away. Well,

417
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Speaker 1: then what happened was we brought the garrison to war

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Speaker 1: with us and we started bringing that overseas. Um. But

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Speaker 1: I really do think that we have created a culture

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Speaker 1: now where n c os have had their balls cut

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Speaker 1: off and they just don't push back against the stupidity. Um.

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Speaker 1: Now that the flip side of that, as the n

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Speaker 1: c o s have to be professional themselves as well. Um,

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Speaker 1: And now if the brass is acting stupid, that so

425
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: to speak, that the higher um higher ranking officers or

426
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,479
Speaker 1: even mid grade officers are acting stupid as well as

427
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: the enlisted guys. Now and we're really in for a

428
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: ship show at that point. Okay, I mean it does answer. Uh,

429
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: this whole thing is just every day there's the more

430
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: questions that that could ask because because of this, I

431
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: don't want to call it a circus as it is.

432
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's a it's a murder trial and

433
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: and yeah, I don't want to make light of it,

434
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: but um, yeah, I don't say circus joking, but yeah,

435
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: it has turned into a three ring circus. It's like,

436
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: what the fuck? Stay tuned. I guess the more Eddie

437
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: Gallagher news that comes out, we'll obviously uh discuss it

438
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: on here. Um. Is there anything else you wanna you

439
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: want to bring up before we bring Jason on? Not

440
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 1: really no, Um, you know, I'm still working on a

441
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: few stories behind the scenes, UM, on other subjects. But

442
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: I mean I don't really have anything to throw out

443
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: there right now. I mean we could. That was a

444
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: good twenty minutes of Eddie Gallagher slash. Problems within the

445
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: ranks had had accountability, I think is the main theme

446
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 1: of of this conversation. Yeah, because what happens is, let's

447
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: let's just say you have a soldier who does something wrong,

448
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: who who like um wants to like beat up at

449
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 1: a detainee, and his leaders turn turn a blind eye

450
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: to it, or or even worse, they authorize it, like yeah,

451
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: go beat the ship out of that kid that's handcuffed. Um.

452
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: Then what happens, like to three deployments down the line,

453
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: what that turns into is those soldiers that you let

454
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: do that. Now they're just smoking civilians on target, Like

455
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: women come out of the house with their hands up, kids,

456
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: and you just smoke the whole family. Like that's what

457
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: it turns into. So the it starts, it has to

458
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: start early on. Uh. And if you let those things

459
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: slip by, they snowball and they get worse, worse, I mean,

460
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 1: so you gotta nip it in the bud early. But

461
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: again it goes back to if you you know, if

462
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: if your leader is not all there and he's allowing it.

463
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it all comes back to accountability like top

464
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: to bottom because what you do, what the leaders are

465
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: doing at that point is they're like they're like grooming

466
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: their subordinates, right yeah, and essentially, and that's what war

467
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: crimes do. They actually do bind you together because now

468
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: it's like a mafia, like you all have dirt on

469
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: each other. Right, So by committing war crimes like strengthens

470
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: your little clique in that way because everyone can dime

471
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 1: out everybody else. Yeah, well said, this whole thing is fucked.

472
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, all right, let's bring on Jason. But

473
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: before we I'm I'm flustered. That is that's some heavy

474
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: stuff man. Before we bring on Jason, I want to

475
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 1: let you guys know that this show is brought to

476
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: you by Create Club. It's a club four men by

477
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: men of gear, hand picked by special Operations military veterans.

478
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: Visit create Club dot us for an exclusive promotion for

479
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,119
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480
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481
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: long we can keep this promotion going. So go to

482
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: Craig Club dot us and use the coupon code soft

483
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484
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,439
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485
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: for off. Sign up now and with that we're gonna

486
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: welcome on Jason Bailey. Years in the Army. He's gonna

487
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: have a lot to talk about, so we're not gonna

488
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 1: waste your time. Anyone longer enjoy joining us. Now we

489
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: have Jason Bailey on. He spent twenty five years in

490
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: the Army, seventeen of which over seventeen serving in top

491
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: tier special operations units. Quite an impressive resume. Uh. He

492
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 1: was in the First Battle of Mogadishu, which was portrayed

493
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: in the book and then the movie Black hawk down,

494
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: so we are very excited to have him on. Jason,

495
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: thank you so much for giving us some time today.

496
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. We

497
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 1: really appreciate having you. Yeah, Jason, I mean you are

498
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: highly recommended, um by by numerous people. Actually, after a

499
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: friend of yours initially uh said I needed to reach

500
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: out to you. He said, he said, you're the guy

501
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: we need to have on the podcast. So I'm so

502
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: happy that that we could get in touch. Very cool,

503
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: I am as well. And am I making a habit of,

504
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: you know, passing out twenty dollar bills for my friends

505
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: of mine to stay cool. Thanks about so apparently that

506
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: worked at least once. So Jason, it was me. I'll

507
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: send you the I'll send you the address after the show. Okay,

508
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: thank you. No worries. Uh So, I guess Jason, Um,

509
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: I never know quite where to where to start off

510
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: with with people like yourself. We've spent so much time

511
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: in and out of the military doing interesting things. I mean,

512
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: maybe you could tell us start off a little bit

513
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: by talking about how you came into the military, how

514
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: and why you joined the army, and how all that

515
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: came about. The the long insurance of it is. I uh,

516
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: my families from Minnesota. Originally we moved out to Oregon.

517
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: I grew up in Oregon. I'm a Pacific Northwest guy,

518
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: grew up in Salem. When I graduated high school, I

519
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: had two jobs, one full time and one evening thing.

520
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: And by the time I got through the summer and

521
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: the following winter by January of so I graduated in

522
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: eighty three. By January of eighty four, I was unemployed.

523
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: Got it off from one job that was a seasonal thing,

524
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: and the other one I got fired from. And long

525
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: story short, I uh um gotten. I was spent my

526
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: entire high school career with adults recommending to me that

527
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: I should think about going into military because I was

528
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: kind of motivated and I worked pretty hard, and I

529
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: always just kind of waved that off with a brush

530
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: of my hand. I'm not interested in that. It's not

531
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: my thing. And then, uh, you know, nothing like the

532
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: prospect of zero income to make you reevaluate your priorities,

533
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: I guess, and uh so right about I don't know.

534
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: Right after my nineteenth birthday, I walked into the recruiters

535
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: office because I wanted to fly helicopters and through a

536
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: series of conversations, I ended up going in the infantry,

537
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: and which actually was probably the best thing for me,

538
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: and at that ended up being a pretty good decision. Um,

539
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: I don't think I would have been well suited to

540
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: fly on helicopters, and and I didn't have the right

541
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: eyes for it anyway, I couldn't I couldn't have passed

542
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: the exam for that. So um, long story short, I

543
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: got no no mentoring or counseling from anybody smarter than

544
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: me about going into military, and so I ended up

545
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: in an infantry unit. I was in a mechanized unit

546
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: over station in Germany, which for your listeners who have

547
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: spent time in the military, that's about the farthest things

548
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: you can get from anything special operations or airborne or

549
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: anything like that. And that was I spent a couple

550
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: of years in Germany, got got managed to finagle my

551
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: way into an airborne school slot. When I left there,

552
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: somehow graduated airborn school and then wait went straight to

553
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: another non airborne mechanized unit at Fort Knox, Kentucky, and

554
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty six, I don't think Fort Knox even

555
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: had a parachute on the base. Anywhere, but you know,

556
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: they looked at me like I had horns when I

557
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: showed up coming from Airborne school and reported in there. Um,

558
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: then I throw it through a couple of series of events.

559
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: I had a stroke luck, got a ranger school slot

560
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: in a summer of eighty seven, and then I came

561
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: right up for reenlistment. So I re enlisted, and um,

562
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: the reenlistment guy told me, I can't get you any

563
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: options other than you can pick your duty station of choice.

564
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: And I knew there was a range of battalion up

565
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: kind of close to my house in Oregon, up in Tacoma,

566
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: Washington at Fort Lewis, So I said, don't want to

567
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: go to Fort Lewis. I got that written in my contract.

568
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: I re enlisted for six years, and very very condensed

569
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: version of the story is a company commander, a captain

570
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: that I worked for a couple of years prior to that,

571
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: had been stationed at Second bat at one point, and

572
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: he mentored me through the process of calling and getting

573
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: an appointment with the commands art Major Uh and I

574
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: walked in cold and did an interview of sorts and

575
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: they said, yeah, if you can get yourself assigned to

576
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: Fort Lewis will put you on orders, and you know,

577
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: you still have to pass the Ranger Orientation program. Back

578
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: then they had rope for n CEOs. That was kind

579
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: of the understandings like, hey, we'll put you, we'll sign

580
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: you the second range of the time, but you've got

581
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: to pass through all these flaming groups of qualifications and

582
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: everything else, which I managed to do. So you know

583
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: I did that. So that's that's that's a Howard longster

584
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: by itself. Go ahead as just saying you recruited yourself

585
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: the Ranger Battalion, which is I've never heard that before

586
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: of like an not knocking on the store. So this, uh,

587
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: this captain I worked for, I ended up through a

588
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: series of events, I ended up being a you know,

589
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: a driver for a vehicle from my company commander when

590
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: I was in Germany. And he had been a platoon

591
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: leader in the Rangers of in exactly the same the

592
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: time that I wanted to go to. So we we

593
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time driving you know around Germany,

594
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: doing different training and exercises, and he did a real

595
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: good job mentoring me about stuff. And finally, you know,

596
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: he said, if you if you really want to do this,

597
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: there's what you need to do. And he called this

598
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: phone number, talk to this person, make this appointment with

599
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: the with the CSM, blah blah. And I'm at this point,

600
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: at this point, we're not working together anymore because he

601
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: had moved and I had gone back to the States.

602
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: But we were on the phone and you know, and

603
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,919
Speaker 1: I said, sir, this is I can't do this. Yeah

604
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: you can. You just call him and tell him what

605
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: you want to do. Like I'm a I'm a young

606
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: e five. I can't just go and ask him an

607
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 1: appointment with the time. Commands are a major and he

608
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: and he said, this is, yes, it's out of the ordinary,

609
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: but if you want it bad enough, this is what

610
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: you have to do. Figure it out. And his name

611
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: was Vick Jarrett. He was he was an awesome company commander.

612
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: I haven't had contact with him for probably in the

613
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: twenty five years, and I need to contact him, but um,

614
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: you know, it was a one in a million thing,

615
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: and I in it, and it I try to do

616
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,439
Speaker 1: as much mentoring nowadays as I can, which which which

617
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: usually translates to me offering unsolicited advice to people who

618
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: don't want to listen to it. Anyway. Because it's like,

619
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: you know, get out of my face. I'm busy doing

620
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: my you know, my thing, and uh um, I try

621
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: not to be pushy about it. But but the point

622
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: is is, you know, most people and and I'm kind

623
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: of I'm kind of making a point, way off off

624
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: topic of what we're talking about. Um, a lot of

625
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: people here that you know, you have this, this career

626
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: and soft and you're you know, you're a Green Beret

627
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: or Army ranger or Navy sealers, you're this or youer that,

628
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: and they just assumed that you were always that thing.

629
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: But we all started out the same way. So I

630
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: think it's a good story to tell because a lot

631
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: of people can can find some similarities and go, hey,

632
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: you know I can I can do that for myself

633
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: and go find this job and I, you know, do

634
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: my own thing in the military or whatever that is.

635
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: And I try to tell young troops that I run across,

636
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: regardless of service branch, you have to kind of make

637
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: your own luck. The army will take care of you

638
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: to a point. But but they're also going to, as

639
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:57,919
Speaker 1: one of my friends told me when I was getting

640
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: ready to retire, they're going to get their in the flesh.

641
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 1: And so you've got to make your own luck and

642
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: let them get the pound of flesh while you're doing

643
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: something that you want or that or that you or

644
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: that satisfies your need for job satisfaction and challenging things

645
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So you spent some time in

646
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: the second range of battalion. Um, this was back in

647
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: the late eighties at this point. Yes, yeah, I showed

648
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: up their Yeah. Actually it was kind of funny for

649
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: for for folks who were around back then. You know,

650
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: the if you go back to Vietnam, the plain green

651
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 1: O G one of seven uniform that was you know, Vietnam,

652
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: and a little bit later, well, the the Army had

653
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: in the Army had already changed over to the first

654
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: version of the Woodland camouflage bat you like, the old

655
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: heavy cotton one with not the not the what I

656
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: referred to as the newer one that came out like

657
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: in the early nineties, with a narrower collar and the

658
00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: ripstop material. And so when I walked through just just incidentally,

659
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: when I walked into the talked to the CSM that day,

660
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: you know, I was still the Rangers were all in

661
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 1: their O G one of seven and jungle boots, the

662
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: green green canvas jungle boots and uh in their black

663
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: braves and I walk in and my you know, I

664
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: referred to it as I was all super legged out

665
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: right in my b t U s and the white

666
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: collar ones in my spitch on jump boots, because that's

667
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,479
Speaker 1: what we did in Lakeland, you know, not non airborne unit.

668
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: And I thought they were going to run me out

669
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: of there on a rail and beat me up and

670
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: throw me back over the fence, you know, all the

671
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: all the rumors you're here. But but anyway, yeah, that

672
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: was eight I got there and then I left it

673
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: ninety two did just like not quite four and a

674
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 1: half years, I guess. So how did that left there?

675
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: How did that work out? That you you heard that

676
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: there's this other outfit out there doing some cool missions

677
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: or whatever, and you wanted to push it up to

678
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: the next level. Yeah, pretty much. It was It was

679
00:37:58,040 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, I had I had heard about that in

680
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: the past, and frankly, it was one of those things

681
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: where I I kind of looked back and was like,

682
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not That's not something I could ever do,

683
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: because you know, that's just that's beyond my capabilities. And

684
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, I literally put it out of

685
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: my mind. I went, I went to a even back

686
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: when I was a young PFC or or re spec

687
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: specially Spec four back in they came that organization came

688
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 1: around and did a recruiting brief and I went with

689
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: one of my friends who was an n c O,

690
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: and they let me sit in the briefing, and I

691
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: remember thinking to myself, which is pretty cool, but there's

692
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: there's no way I could do this, because it's just

693
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: I just I just couldn't do it, because I just

694
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: I just dismissed it out of hand, because I knew

695
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: it was so hard, it was something I would never

696
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: be able to do. And then somehow or another years later,

697
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 1: I conjured up the guts to give it a try,

698
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: and lo and behold, it worked out. So I had

699
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: to go a second time. I didn't make it my

700
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,439
Speaker 1: first attempt um and I ended up waiting three years

701
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: before I went back, which was which was timing wise,

702
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: was kind of a mistake. I wish I hadn't done that,

703
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: but it all worked out. So here we are. I'm

704
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: trying not to be too short with my answers, and

705
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to talk too much, and I went

706
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: too much as too much. So no, that's all right, um.

707
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: I I was wondering if you uh, because when we

708
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: had talked on the phone previously, I mentioned some of

709
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: the other previous guests we had um that you recognized

710
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: right off the bat, like George and Rob. I've wondered

711
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: if you wanted to talk about some of some of

712
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: those other guys at all. You know, I actually hadn't

713
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: thought about that. I it's it's funny that so many

714
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 1: of the folks that you're talking about were contemporaries of mine,

715
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: probably be the you know, first and foremost, and I

716
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: guess you know, the fame and notoriety or infamy whichever

717
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: where you want to say it. I'm not sure, but

718
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: you know I was in the I was in the

719
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 1: same training classes Kyle lamb Um and Pat McNamara both

720
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: and and George hand you mentioned his name as well.

721
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: We all went to the same training course at the

722
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: same time. I ended up in the same squad and

723
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: as Kyle for quite a few years. We are still

724
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: on the same team for I don't know, a year

725
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: and a half, two years, whatever that was. And I

726
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: really really enjoyed working with him. Um, he was a

727
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: team leader and I was then assistant team leader there,

728
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: and you know the thing about and I just had

729
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: this repeated back to me the other day, So I'm

730
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,479
Speaker 1: repeating something that somebody else said to me years ago.

731
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: But you know, you you show up to a place

732
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: like that, and I was never a guy that that

733
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: early in my career kind of looked around and was like,

734
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm a better performer than all these

735
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: people because I just don't look at things like that.

736
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: But you do start to notice that you're even as

737
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: a young man in the army, you know, when I

738
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: was in I mean I showed up at that that

739
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: first Judy station in Germany, and within six months I

740
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: was kind of like, Um, this is it, this is

741
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: all this is. I mean there's nothing that I thought

742
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 1: what we're gonna be, you know, running around and machine

743
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: gunning and you know, just learning how to you know,

744
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: but the pedal to the metals and just never happened.

745
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 1: It should also be pointed out, i mean the Army

746
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: in Germany during that time frame you got there on

747
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: the early to mid eight point, the Army was not

748
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: in good shape at that point, good point, good point.

749
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: You're you're right, and and you know the I got

750
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: there June or something like that, and I left him

751
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: December of a six, so just right at two and

752
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: a half years and will I will the thing that

753
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: you say is true. They were. They were, you know,

754
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: lacking funding, lacking decent equipment. We had probably most everything

755
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: we used was Vietnam era stuff. Not literally stuff from

756
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: Vietnam that was you know, fifteen years old, but Vietnam

757
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: era things that had not been redesigned or updated or that.

758
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 1: You know, that's just that the technologies were were somewhat

759
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: stagnant um. You know. This was before the Humbby, This

760
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: was before the Bradley, where the Bradley was actually just

761
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: coming out and the Baretta pistol had just been introduced.

762
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: We still had nineteen eleventh in my company, you know,

763
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: because the you know, the order of fielding stuff like that,

764
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: it goes to you know, the special ops guys first,

765
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: and then it will filter down to like the eighty

766
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: second and first and the eighth Infantry Division, where I

767
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: was was pretty damn close to the last of the list.

768
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: It seems to me, you know, from my perspective at

769
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: the time. But I will tell you that you know,

770
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: here we are thirty five years later, and my perspective

771
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 1: is that even though that place was that division, which

772
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: eighth Infantry Division got deactivated sometime in the nineties, I believe,

773
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: and uh Um, even though they were you know, a

774
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: resource constrained and it was in Germany, and it was

775
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: the Cold War, and there was you know, just all

776
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: of that stuff. Um, the thing I remember back to

777
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: is uh in in some cases jack and start contrast

778
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: to what we see today, those young E five and

779
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: E six sergeants and staff sergeants and mid grade n

780
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 1: c o s. The Army was actually pretty good in

781
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: a lot of cases taking care of their guys and

782
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: you know, and and doing what they were supposed to do.

783
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: It was it wasn't It wasn't done at the elite

784
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: soft level of execution. But I mean I had, you know,

785
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: what I would call, um, marginally educated sergeants and staff

786
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: sergeants in my company that I didn't frankly, I didn't

787
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: hold in high regardless because I just didn't. They just

788
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: didn't seem to me like they were motivated. They weren't

789
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: the hard charge and people like I thought Army guys

790
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: should be. But now that I'm a little more seasoned

791
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: than I've had a broad look at a lot of

792
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: stuff in the military, a lot of different flavors of

793
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,720
Speaker 1: special forces and our special operations forces. I should say, Um,

794
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 1: a lot of those guys were really good at just

795
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: basic sergeant tasks like making sure your people are taking

796
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 1: care of, making sure they go to the promotion board

797
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: where they're supposed to, making sure that they do what

798
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: they're just basic stuff. You know, do a twelve mile

799
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: road marks and there's actually water at the end of it.

800
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 1: You know. I have two kids in the Army now, um,

801
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: both at just over five, about five and a half

802
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: years of service, and some of the stories they tell

803
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: me about some of the things they do in the

804
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: units that they're in, and they're and they're both in

805
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 1: you know, non special outs units, and it just curls

806
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: my hair. Is that? What do you mean? You did

807
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: a twelve mile road marks and you know you get

808
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: to the halfway turnaround point and there's no water. So yeah,

809
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, walking for hour and a half two hours

810
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: in heat in the summertime and nobody thought about what

811
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: it's like. How can they make anybody even get by

812
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 1: with that. It's like we forgot how to train, right, right.

813
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: It's we're so concentrated on being so high speed with

814
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: all of our cool little witchets and you know, all this,

815
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: all this all this cool guy stuff. And I don't

816
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: mean to detigrate that, but you know, people get so

817
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: focused on I and having beards and having lasers on

818
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: their guns and all this stuff. Right, I gotta have

819
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: a ten inch barrel gun, and I gotta have a this,

820
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: this and that and blah blah blah. It's like, well,

821
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: you you can't even score two fifty on your PT

822
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: test for crying out loud. Why are you focusing on this?

823
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: It's you know, there's a I could rant and rape

824
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: about this, and I'm gonna try not to flip that

825
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: switch on because I don't think it's going to be

826
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: the most productive conversation. But my point is is that

827
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: even the people who a lot of us look at

828
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: as like not even a lower tier, but at the

829
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: bottom tier, the bottom rung of the of the ladder

830
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: of hierarchy, of of perception of you know, how great

831
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: we are in the military, there's a lot of guys

832
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: out there who were just you know, run of the

833
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: mill guys that are doing the right thing day in

834
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: and day out, and there they're they're doing great work.

835
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: I think that's a really unheralded and unrecognized and that's

836
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: where all of us come from. I think that, Yeah.

837
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the base that builds the soldier who's

838
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 1: able to, you know, one day go and do all

839
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: those high speed things. And you know, I think there

840
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: are some there are some valid reasons for you know,

841
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: take for like like the range of regiment is the

842
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: perfect example, the spit and polish um image and how

843
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: regimented it is and some of that stuff. I understand

844
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: why it needed to fall by the wayside when you're

845
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 1: a wartime army. But as you say, I think sometimes

846
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: the baby got thrown out with the bathwater and some

847
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: of like that basic soldier discipline, um, you know, basic

848
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: good army training. That kind of stuff just kind of

849
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 1: fell by the wayside as well, right, I agree. I

850
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: agree that. About five years ago I was at the

851
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: the a USA show up in d C. How do

852
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: if you've ever been to that, it's usually in October.

853
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: The Association of the US Army has a conference and

854
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: it's like a it's like a trade show. It's everything

855
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: from you know, a lot of military leaders goes writing

856
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: down John D. C and a convention center down there.

857
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: And anyway, the star major of the army at the time,

858
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 1: who was looking right at his face, I can't think

859
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: of his name, but he had a he had a

860
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: question and answer thing. They did a couple of presentations

861
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: and then did this question and answer thing. In this

862
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: I don't know three people in the auditorium and the

863
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: company worked for at the time got an invite and

864
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: we were we were kind of they're helping out a

865
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: little bit. And the reason I bring this up is

866
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: because during the question and answer thing, probably no fewer

867
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: than five or six first sergeants or sergeants major in

868
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,280
Speaker 1: the crowd stood up and you know, got an opportunity

869
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: to ask a question of the s m A. And

870
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 1: they got the mic in their hand and they all

871
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,439
Speaker 1: basically said the same thing, which was, you know, none

872
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: of my troops, I can't motivate him, any of my

873
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: troops that do you know, proper garrison type stuff, and

874
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: we've lost our ability and to I mean some of

875
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: them even literally complained about the fact that we have

876
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: brown boots now instead of black and nobody has to

877
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: polish him anymore, and the lack of soldier lea skills

878
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: and all this other stuff, and and which I understood

879
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,919
Speaker 1: their point, but I was kind of a gas at

880
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: the at the collective, at the attitude and the aggregate

881
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: of a lot of these guys in the crowd, and

882
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: all the guys that worked at the company I was

883
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: at at the time, we're all vets, and we had

884
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: a long discussion about this af traffact, and and it

885
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: wasn't my place, and I was, uh uh not because

886
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:28,879
Speaker 1: of what we were. We were actually the guy's kind

887
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: of like carrying the microphones around back to flow, so

888
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: it was inappropriate for me to grab a mike and

889
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: say something. But the thing I wanted to stand up

890
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,919
Speaker 1: and tell these guys is like, look, it's our major

891
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: first sergeant. Yes, what you're saying is somewhat true, but

892
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: what you're not acknowledging in your in your complaint is

893
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: the fact that we had as an army at pre

894
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: nine eleven, we had almost zero ability to conduct combat

895
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: operations at the level that we conduct him now, which

896
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: would have been in two thou thirteen when this happened.

897
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: You know, at least acknowledge the fact that we've we

898
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 1: might have lost some of these non essential soldier lee skills.

899
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call him non essential because I don't really

900
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: give I don't I don't give any concern at all

901
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: about shining boots, shining boots, or belt buckles, or haircuts

902
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,240
Speaker 1: or uniformity. You know, these guys get it where their pouches,

903
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: however they want durin their uniform with doubt it out

904
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: of dune. It's like, why do you even care about that?

905
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,240
Speaker 1: How did how did we make you a first sergeant

906
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 1: or a sergeant major? While you care so much about that?

907
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 1: What's wrong with the army that that's even that that

908
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 1: even happened? Because we need you should be any six.

909
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: We need to be talking about marksmanship, We need to

910
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: be talking about tactics, you know, some of those those

911
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 1: basic soldier tasks. Like if you need some soldier taks

912
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,280
Speaker 1: tasks to fixate on, let's let's pull out the Mission

913
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: Essential Task List and just start going down to see

914
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 1: what we're proficient on exactly, you know. And that's and

915
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: that's that's exactly my point, you know. And so while

916
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: he has a good point, it frustrated me a little

917
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: bit because he, you know, forgot the forest for the trees.

918
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: His focus is so so And I think the star

919
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: major of the Army was able to address those kind

920
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 1: of misguided and ill focused seniors in the crowd and

921
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,399
Speaker 1: he gave a pretty good answer, which was basically more

922
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: diplomatic than what I just said, like, Hey, we're doing

923
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: great job at combat operations, and you know, some of

924
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: this stuff might get lost, but all those things are

925
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: just the varying degrees of attention to detail. So if

926
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: you guys can't shine their boots and their belt bocals

927
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: aren't black, or their haircuts are too long or they've

928
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 1: got a three day growth of facial hair, but they

929
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: remember to do all their pre combat inspections in their

930
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 1: vehicle runs when they need to go out the gate

931
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 1: and go conduct a mission. And you know they're doing

932
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: all those proper things and dotted dotta and we could

933
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:51,919
Speaker 1: you and I consider and come up with a list

934
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,320
Speaker 1: of about three items that probably have to get checked

935
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 1: every single time before guys roll out the gate. All

936
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: that stuff is getting done. I really don't care about

937
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: boots and you know, I mean, it just doesn't matter. Um,

938
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: there was another point I was gonna make about ten

939
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: minutes ago when we we've gone far Afield, and I

940
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: already forgot what it was. But I think part of

941
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: it was you were talking about how, um, you didn't

942
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: find the conventional military to be all that you hoped for.

943
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 1: Um by the time you got to O t C, though,

944
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,439
Speaker 1: and you're alongside you know, super studs like Kyle Lamb

945
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: and Pat McNamara. I mean, I take it you found

946
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 1: what you're looking for there. I did, And thank you

947
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: for the reminder, because you just reminded that that's exactly

948
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: the point I was gonna make, which was, you know,

949
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: I didn't I never looked at myself. I recognized when

950
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: I got a little bit older, you know, hit my

951
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: mid twenties or so, I've been in the Army for

952
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: five or six years. I recognized that I was a

953
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 1: little bit more motivated and had a little bit better

954
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: work ethic than most guys. Um. And I had a

955
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,959
Speaker 1: natural ability because I was like, you know, six ft

956
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: tall and a hundred fifty pounds when I enlisted in

957
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: the Army. I could run like the wind until until

958
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: I was forty. Um, you know, but that was that

959
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 1: was kind of the end of it. So when when

960
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: you when you leave other places and I got to

961
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 1: the Rangers, and I was you know, I wasn't a

962
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: time performer there necessarily, um, you know, but when I

963
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 1: when I went through selection and it got to a

964
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,399
Speaker 1: special mission unit, Tier one level type of stuff. It's

965
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 1: like every single day you show up for work and

966
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: walk through the door, you've got to have you're the

967
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: pedal to the metal and you you're you're you're working

968
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 1: to keep up. You know. So some guys might be

969
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,839
Speaker 1: a better shooter and they may have to work more

970
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: to keep up on the physical side, or maybe other

971
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 1: guys are better at planning and they may have to

972
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: work harder to be a better shooter and keep up

973
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: with the better shooters. And everybody brings something to the table.

974
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: But you know, it's like you go through this extensive

975
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 1: selection and hiring process only for the privilege of working

976
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: your ass off every day you're there for however many

977
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 1: years that is. And a lot of people don't understand that.

978
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I've if I once I get through

979
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:09,280
Speaker 1: through that and all those all those different hiring process,

980
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: you know everything else, now I can I can rest

981
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: on my laurels, and I can take it easy because

982
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: I've made it. It's like, no, you you now have

983
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: to work harder to keep up than you've ever worked

984
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: in your life, and you've got to do that pretty

985
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,359
Speaker 1: much every day after you leave there. For the most part,

986
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,280
Speaker 1: I kind of had that problem, um, And not with everyone,

987
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 1: but with some people in Special Forces. UM that there

988
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: are certain people who I felt like they got their

989
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: long tab and they put on their green hat and

990
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: they kind of felt like that's it. I've made the

991
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: same observation. It's interesting that you say that I agree,

992
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 1: and I think I think, Um, I mean, there's their

993
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 1: human nature is what it is, and no matter how

994
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: hard we try, and I mean thinking a loti, we

995
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: had a couple of those that slipt through the cracks.

996
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: You know, we just have We just have tighter cracks

997
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 1: and fewer people slipt through them. But there's there's always

998
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: a couple here and there. You know. Hell, probably some

999
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 1: people are gonna listen to this. You're like, yeah, Beefly

1000
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 1: Year one of them, you know, Um, But it's we

1001
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 1: have fewer of them, and then SF and Rangers have

1002
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: few of them than the big army has and it

1003
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: just you know, it's kind of this stair step descending order. Um,

1004
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 1: but but it's I don't I actually had to take

1005
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 1: some I did a different I do a lot of

1006
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: different consulting work and different kinds of training and stuff

1007
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: like that. Now I don't I don't have a I

1008
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: don't work for a company full time as a as

1009
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 1: an employee. I do all contracting work now, mostly instruction

1010
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: and some other stuff that's some consulting and things like that.

1011
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: And in the last couple of years, I've had the

1012
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:42,800
Speaker 1: opportunity to to do some you know, normally what I

1013
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: do is flat range marksmanship and tactic stuff. And I

1014
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:47,919
Speaker 1: had an opportunity to do a couple of things where

1015
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 1: it was just you know, some soft guys and a

1016
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: lot of training, and I got to provide some feedback

1017
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 1: on some stuff they were doing. And and there was

1018
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: some and I'm not going to say who it was.

1019
00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say which branches service it was,

1020
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 1: because I don't I don't want to call anybody out

1021
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 1: and start a big argument. But in across the force

1022
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:08,760
Speaker 1: that that group of guys in that place at that time,

1023
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: you know, um, there was some some of this attitude

1024
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: like you're talking about. It's kind of like you know,

1025
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: and I look at it purely as a work ethic.

1026
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 1: If you're going to show up and call yourself, you know,

1027
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: a Navy seal, green beret ranger whatever, right, tier one operator, badass,

1028
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: barrel chested freedom fighter, and you're not willing to, you know,

1029
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: help one of your mates carry the boxes of m

1030
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 1: R E s in from out in the truck that

1031
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 1: you all have to pass out to put in as

1032
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: emergency rations in your vehicle, or you're not willing to,

1033
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 1: you know, help your medic carry all of this extra

1034
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 1: stuff off of uh, the info aircraft after you finish

1035
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 1: your training exercise, because you know, we did a big

1036
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:00,399
Speaker 1: casually play, right, Everybody gets off the aircraft and walks

1037
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,839
Speaker 1: away and leaves the medic there with this big pilot, right,

1038
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: And you know what it looks like when you do

1039
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: casualty play and then you then you end the exercise

1040
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: and the cashty stands up and takes all that stuff off.

1041
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: You have this this pile of crap, and everybody walked

1042
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 1: away and left the medic there by himself. So i

1043
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, well, I guess I'll give my hand

1044
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: and then one of the guys came running back and

1045
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, sort of hip checked me out of the way.

1046
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,479
Speaker 1: But I'm looking at this something like, what is wrong

1047
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: with all of you in your work ethics that you

1048
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:29,879
Speaker 1: think it's okay to leave your medic just go through

1049
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 1: this by himself. It doesn't make any sense. So and

1050
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: then there I've just I've seen these multiple, uh, disparate

1051
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: organizations that all have a similar what I'm gonna call

1052
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: a similar cultural problem, which is, like you said, they

1053
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 1: think they've arrived and all they've gotta do is put

1054
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 1: on whatever special batch or insignia that they have and

1055
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:57,479
Speaker 1: walk around and look cool, and they don't get the other.

1056
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 1: The flip side of that is you have to work yours,

1057
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: have to maintain that. Do you think part of that

1058
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: and it's hard? Do you think part of that is

1059
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 1: that the forest is just uh. I was talking about

1060
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: this with Dennis before we went on on and gave

1061
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 1: you a call. I mean, do you think some of

1062
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 1: these problems, some of these cultural problems, have something to

1063
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: do with us having been at war for eighteen years

1064
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: and that the forest has become kind of afraid at

1065
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: the at the edges there's probably something to do with that,

1066
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: I think. I think there's a few people out there

1067
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: who who more than a few, there's probably a good

1068
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: a good number of people out there who think that

1069
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 1: if it's not combat operations, they don't have time for it.

1070
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 1: And I can sympathize to a point. I can, but

1071
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: you know, at the same time, only to a point.

1072
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: And then and then my point is not nearly as

1073
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: far down the path as as other people's point would be.

1074
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: And I would say I'll compromise to right here, and

1075
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: they would want to go, you know, fifty ft further

1076
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: down that path, and at which point I would I

1077
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: would say, no, not not even close if we're going

1078
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: to go to you know, it goes back to becoming

1079
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 1: I made before about you know, the supposedly bottom rung

1080
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: of the ladder h I d guys in mechanized back

1081
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: in the eighties in Germany, you know, which a lot

1082
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 1: of people look at as the stereotypical like highest drag,

1083
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: lowest speed thing you could do with the coke in

1084
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 1: the back of their uh in the back of the bradley. Yeah,

1085
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 1: I mean, we used to refer to a long distance

1086
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: movement in our vehicles like, we're gonna go and drive

1087
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: overnight fifty miles in the mechanized before this is before

1088
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 1: before the eleven hotel mls even existed. This was they

1089
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: called it. We're going to do a road march. I

1090
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 1: thought a road march was with your with your feet

1091
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: and a rucksack on your back. You know. We had

1092
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: a We had this guy come from the eighty second

1093
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: one time. He changed stations, left the eighty second and

1094
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: ended up in my company in the in the same

1095
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: company I was in over in Germany in the h

1096
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:56,439
Speaker 1: I d and uh, you know, after we became friends,

1097
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 1: after he'd been there for a few months, and he's

1098
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: a really a good guy. And uh yeah, I came

1099
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: here from the eighty second, and you guys kept talking

1100
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: about road march, road march, road marks. So we we

1101
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 1: got in the vehicles and I had my rucksack on

1102
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 1: ready to go, and we just drove for eight hours.

1103
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: It was like, what kind of road march is this?

1104
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: You know? But but anyway, and I think you're the

1105
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 1: answer to the question is um part of it is

1106
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: freight at the edges because there's been a lot of

1107
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: combat operations and people think that anything that's not you know,

1108
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: being shot at by the enemy, not not engaging the enemy, shoot, move, communicate,

1109
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, in a kinetic fashion they think is beneath them,

1110
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: and that that's a that's an easy temptation to succumb to.

1111
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 1: But I think it's inaccurate, and I don't think that

1112
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 1: the exact and equal opposite of that is is that

1113
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: when we're not doing that, we should all be wearing

1114
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 1: our are ten soldier uniforms and walking out on the

1115
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: parade field practicing our marching around, or we should be

1116
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: going to you know, uh, all these silly briefings that

1117
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 1: the army has to go to now. You know, Um,

1118
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: there's a there's a happy medium between spit and polish

1119
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: and rolling in the mud combat operations with you know,

1120
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: the proverbial I'm knee deep in brass and grenade pins stories, right, um,

1121
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: And there's a happy medium there somewhere, And it's hard

1122
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 1: to reach that in a lot of places. For most organizations. Culturally,

1123
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 1: they don't have the they don't that the culture is

1124
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 1: not deep enough in the army because too many people

1125
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 1: rotting around too quickly, and everybody only does a couple

1126
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: of years and then they're gone. And so there's no

1127
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 1: there's no way to keep the culture there and the

1128
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 1: the the units like say the eighty second Airborne for example,

1129
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: that have a pretty storied history all the way back

1130
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: to World War One. UM. What I find there, especially

1131
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 1: since I've been I've been at or near Fort Bragg

1132
01:00:54,920 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 1: for almost twenty five years now, is um, no, only

1133
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: seven years now, is that I think that UM, A

1134
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: lot of those guys are guilty of UM what's the

1135
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 1: word I'm trying to think. I can't. I'm sorry, I'm not.

1136
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 1: They're they're co opting their history and and there inadvertently,

1137
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 1: I don't think they even realize it, but they're resting

1138
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 1: on their laurels because they're the badass eighty second. But

1139
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: they can't go out and conduct decent training because they

1140
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 1: don't ever train right because they're because they're the eighty second,

1141
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: they're just gonna They're just gonna eighty second their way

1142
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 1: through it and it'll be fine. I think that's a

1143
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: big problem, UM, with a lot of these units. I

1144
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: think it is. It's it's it's bigger than anybody's willing

1145
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: to admit. And I'm sure there's twenty or thirty people

1146
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 1: out there that are going to listen to this from

1147
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: the eighty second and call me a you know, a blasphemer.

1148
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: And I'm sure I'm going to hear it from a

1149
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 1: bunch of other people as well. But you know, there's

1150
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. It's not it's not a non problem,

1151
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 1: it's it's there, and uh, it's a human nature problem.

1152
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 1: I think the Armies had this problem for for decades

1153
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 1: or hundreds of years, and an ebs and flow is

1154
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 1: just like anything else. Um, it just is what it is.

1155
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean I'm willing to accept it. We do

1156
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: need to fix it. But you know, the the other

1157
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:13,960
Speaker 1: thing that that you and I talked about, and maybe

1158
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 1: maybe maybe not this is a good segue into this

1159
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:21,200
Speaker 1: is um that same job I worked at back when

1160
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: I was mentioning the thing about the star major of

1161
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 1: the army. UM back in I think about two thousand

1162
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: eleven or twelve, the chief of staff of the Army

1163
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: at the time, and I don't remember who that was.

1164
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 1: I should I should have looked at up and had

1165
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 1: it here so I could say what it was when

1166
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: we talked. But Um, for whatever reason, he had his

1167
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 1: staff go and do the research and he said, Hey,

1168
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 1: we've been doing pretty much NonStop combat operations now for

1169
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 1: ten years, and let's go and see, you know what,

1170
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 1: how's the force doing. What where do things look like

1171
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 1: on the ground. Not from the perspective of how well

1172
01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 1: we do combat operations. I want you to look at

1173
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,360
Speaker 1: everything else. And this is this is me regurgitating this,

1174
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 1: So I might be awful a little bit, but the

1175
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 1: spirit of what I'm saying is accurate. And so they did,

1176
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: and they came back after I don't know, maybe a

1177
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 1: year of assessment, and this was this was not a

1178
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 1: thing just just for your edification jacket or maybe or

1179
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: maybe for your listeners. This was not a thing where

1180
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 1: they went out and did like the you know, the

1181
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: the army sensing sessions where you fill out a form

1182
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 1: in in in a commander does a little survey. This

1183
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 1: was a more of a formal thing, and they put

1184
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 1: some meat behind it and actually interviewed people and and

1185
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: and came up with some pretty good conclusions. And the

1186
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 1: way I understand it, they kind of came back and said, hey,

1187
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: there's a there's a a cultural issue perhaps in that

1188
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 1: the army. Individuals in the Army don't exactly recognize that

1189
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 1: they are a a professional within the profession of arms.

1190
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: The officer Corps has kind of got it a little

1191
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 1: bit because they just that dates it all the way

1192
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 1: back to probably revolutione pre revolutionary times, when in civil

1193
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: war times, when the you know, when you were a

1194
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 1: wealthy land order and you had the means to do it,

1195
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:13,800
Speaker 1: you could help. It probably dates this way all the

1196
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 1: way back to the Romans. You could put together an

1197
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 1: army because you had the money to buy one and

1198
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: all the equipment. And that's just sort of translated itself

1199
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:23,040
Speaker 1: culturally over to the officer corps over all the years.

1200
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 1: But on the listed side of things, there was this lacking,

1201
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 1: you know, bona fide thing of I'm a professional within

1202
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 1: the profession of arms. And and so they the army

1203
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 1: reported this back to the Chief of Staff and then

1204
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:40,439
Speaker 1: they established a couple of things and they started trying

1205
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 1: to chip away at this a little bit and talked

1206
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 1: about a bunch of different things regarding what it's what

1207
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: what does it mean to be, you know, a professional

1208
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 1: within a profession. And the examples are throughout history that

1209
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: there's there's essentially three examples in the way I understand this,

1210
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: it's a it's a a thing or or a cultural

1211
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 1: identity or a service within in a culture in a

1212
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 1: society that a society didn't have, it wouldn't be able

1213
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: to provide for itself. In the in the three generally

1214
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 1: are the law, medicine, and religion, and then modern history.

1215
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: We we sort of added in the the military service

1216
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 1: as as the fourth one. And part of the definition

1217
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 1: of that is, you know, uh, a profession is something

1218
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 1: that's kind of self contained. They train their own, they

1219
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 1: manage their own, they discipline their own. You know. For example,

1220
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 1: if you you know, lawyers go to a law school,

1221
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,200
Speaker 1: have to pass a bar exam. If they are found

1222
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 1: uh doing egregious enough things, they lose their law license,

1223
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 1: their their disbarred. You know. Doctors are the same way. Um,

1224
01:05:57,960 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 1: you know, you have to go to law school, you

1225
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 1: have to go to medical school, you have to go

1226
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 1: to seminary to become a religious leader, you know, in

1227
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:07,840
Speaker 1: the same so society doesn't do that. You can't go

1228
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 1: to uh, you know, just you can't just go anywhere

1229
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 1: and become a doctor. They've they've created their own profession, um,

1230
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 1: and they've and they've established their own standards. They train

1231
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:21,479
Speaker 1: their own they discipline their own. So you know, my

1232
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 1: my version of that for the military is you you

1233
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 1: can't make a you know, a tank gunner at any

1234
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 1: university in the Army, in the in the in the

1235
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: United States, anywhere on the planet. You can't make a

1236
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: jump master at a university. You can't make a the

1237
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 1: guy who runs the engines in a Navy ship anywhere

1238
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 1: else other than in the Navy, or in the army,

1239
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 1: or in the Air Force or whatever that looks like.

1240
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: One of the things that I observed over the years

1241
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: is that, you know, special operations itself has come a

1242
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: long way. I think, um, it is a profession now.

1243
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 1: I think, UM, whether or not it's dwindling is another

1244
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 1: controversial question UM to tackle. But I think one of

1245
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 1: the big things that we need to work on UM

1246
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 1: as a country or as a military is professionalizing the infantry.

1247
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:12,720
Speaker 1: I really feel like it still works within the sort

1248
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: of like World War two construct um, like when we

1249
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 1: had draftees like that. They it almost behaves the same

1250
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 1: way in many regards, and I really think they should

1251
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,920
Speaker 1: professionalize it to like, no, this is like a profession,

1252
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:28,760
Speaker 1: it's a way of life. There there is a career

1253
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: track but I don't know. I just feel like they

1254
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: need to do more to kind of raise the standards there. UM.

1255
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 1: I would agree with you the and and and my

1256
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 1: mind reels with the possibilities of how we could do that,

1257
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: and what would be a good idea and what would

1258
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 1: be a bad idea. UM. I think that I think

1259
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:49,439
Speaker 1: that you're onto something there, and I agree with you,

1260
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 1: and I do think that it's a it's still built

1261
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 1: on a foundation of you know, World War two type

1262
01:07:56,560 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 1: of thing. Um. There's a couple of a couple of

1263
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:05,280
Speaker 1: things that I've run across recently that makes me I'm

1264
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 1: going to go out on a limb here, but it

1265
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: kind of makes me think that perhaps the technology that

1266
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 1: we're getting ready to exploit and you know, in two

1267
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 1: thousand ninet whatever, um, as we move forward here, some

1268
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 1: of the technologies that are going to be available to um,

1269
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 1: you know, your standard infantryman at the individual or at

1270
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:29,640
Speaker 1: the battalion or brigade level or whatever it's gonna it's

1271
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 1: going to force us to move that profession into you know,

1272
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 1: we're gonna make a quantum leap from from early twentieth

1273
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:41,600
Speaker 1: century world because really World War Two tactics were you know,

1274
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: adapted to apply to the Pacific and in the European

1275
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:51,960
Speaker 1: theaters based off of you know, marching formations which date

1276
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 1: back to World War One and even before that. And

1277
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 1: they just know we're still we're still doing that kind

1278
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:59,799
Speaker 1: of thing, and that we've been talking about asymmetric warfare

1279
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 1: now for ten fifteen years, since since nine eleven. But

1280
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 1: now that we've got all manner of different drones capabilities,

1281
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:12,520
Speaker 1: we've got you know, cyber warfare, which is so complicated

1282
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 1: I can only barely spell cyber um and and all

1283
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 1: these other different sensors that we can do, sensors to

1284
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 1: sense other sensors, and all this other stuff. And I

1285
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:25,640
Speaker 1: think your average, your average guide to be able to

1286
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 1: exploit this and make it work in real time, um,

1287
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 1: in another ten of fifteen years is going to be

1288
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 1: I think we're going to be forced through sheer inertia

1289
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:39,679
Speaker 1: to improve on that temple. Like you're saying, yeah, I mean,

1290
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: it's the future infantrymen gonna be like something out of

1291
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 1: a science fiction novel. Um. I mean it's a little

1292
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:49,840
Speaker 1: fantastical right now, but not as fantastical as it was

1293
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:54,599
Speaker 1: ten years ago. No, No, not at all. And and

1294
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: and uh. Uh, you know, I don't know the so

1295
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 1: common project on the whole Iron Man suit. You know,

1296
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever I'm not a big

1297
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: sci fi guy, but I have read Robert Hylin's book

1298
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:12,720
Speaker 1: called Starship Troopers and Honor if you're a fan of that,

1299
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 1: And I would encourage anybody who hears this to read

1300
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 1: that book. Not not that cheesy movie that came out

1301
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 1: fifty years ago called Starship Troopers, but the actual book.

1302
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 1: It's it's fascinating, especially since he wrote it in like

1303
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: um he talked about technology that we still haven't been

1304
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 1: able to figure out, and it's fascinating the capability there. Um.

1305
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:37,120
Speaker 1: But I think you're I think you're right, and I

1306
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 1: think I think the the the infantry profession it's going

1307
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 1: to need a bit of updating. And then, uh, you

1308
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 1: alluded to to soft, um, you know, and there's a

1309
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:54,160
Speaker 1: there's a problem in soft which is a perception problem.

1310
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:56,040
Speaker 1: That's that I think is always going to be there

1311
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 1: because it's soft. You you have a you have a

1312
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:00,600
Speaker 1: lot of young guys who look at something, you know,

1313
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 1: these recruiting things for rangers and Green Berets and Navy

1314
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:08,519
Speaker 1: seals and blah blah blah, and uh, you know, so

1315
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 1: they want to be that thing because it sets them

1316
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 1: apart and and it's cool and it's elite. And then

1317
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,360
Speaker 1: they go through their training and they get to that

1318
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:19,559
Speaker 1: point and some of them recognize that they're that they're

1319
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: they basically just they went through all the training to

1320
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 1: get permission to work harder than they've ever worked. Some

1321
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 1: of them just want to be They just want to

1322
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:28,639
Speaker 1: be that guy, and they don't understand what it looks

1323
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 1: like to two gather together the resources, do the planning,

1324
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 1: and put all that stuff together on the ground to

1325
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 1: actually conduct training properly. And that's that's the thing that UM,

1326
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 1: A lot of soft does better than the big army

1327
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 1: in some cases because they you know, they're only conducted training.

1328
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:50,679
Speaker 1: Maybe for part of it, maybe because they're conducted trainings

1329
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 1: for smaller numbers of people, and part of it maybe

1330
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:57,960
Speaker 1: because they're doing it differently. I don't know, UM, but

1331
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:01,719
Speaker 1: it's a it's a that's a ultural problem in my opinion,

1332
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 1: where the perception is, you know, I want to go

1333
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:08,240
Speaker 1: be this guy because it's cool and it's going to

1334
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 1: set me apart, and not everybody can do it. UM,

1335
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:15,360
Speaker 1: but at the same time, there's a there's a I

1336
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 1: don't know. The way I normally say this is, uh,

1337
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 1: there needs to be some adult supervision there to keep

1338
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:25,800
Speaker 1: to keep the focus correct, you know what I mean? Um,

1339
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:27,839
Speaker 1: And that just doesn't happen a lot of times, just

1340
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 1: for whatever reason. And we'd have to break that down,

1341
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:33,680
Speaker 1: you know, case by case, different things to be able

1342
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 1: to figure that out. But um, there's a lot to

1343
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 1: be said there, and I don't know, I don't know

1344
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 1: that we have time just in one call for that.

1345
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,240
Speaker 1: I mean, on that note, we did kind of start

1346
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 1: off this podcast before we rang you up. We were

1347
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: updating some of the things that we're ongoing in the

1348
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 1: Eddie Gallaher trial. Um, the court martial going on in

1349
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:56,840
Speaker 1: San Diego right now, and I mean his his guilt

1350
01:12:56,920 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 1: or innocence remains to be determined. But I mean, do

1351
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:03,599
Speaker 1: you think that there really is like a serious ethical

1352
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:07,720
Speaker 1: problem happening in special operations right now that we were

1353
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:11,519
Speaker 1: kind of taken a turn down a dark path. That's

1354
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 1: a good question. Um. I will say that I am

1355
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:18,360
Speaker 1: not tracking that case at all. I think I think

1356
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 1: I read one article that somebody, uh somebody forwarded me

1357
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 1: something I don't know, maybe three weeks or a month ago,

1358
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:28,679
Speaker 1: and obviously it had been ongoing up to that point.

1359
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 1: It's just not anything i'd pay attention to. Yeah, I

1360
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:34,280
Speaker 1: wasn't asking specifically about that case, but more no, no no, no, no, no,

1361
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 1: I absolutely and I get that. But but um, the

1362
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 1: bigger question is you know that you that you asked

1363
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:45,760
Speaker 1: so I don't know. Um, what I can tell you

1364
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 1: is that, along with that perception that I mentioned a

1365
01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: minute ago, and and I hear this, the perception that

1366
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 1: people have of soft is that we get to the

1367
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 1: higher up the food chain. You are and soft unless

1368
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:03,559
Speaker 1: you have to follow the rules. That's what people's perception is. Okay.

1369
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 1: If I spent seventeen years as a rowine operator, and

1370
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 1: I do training now, and I do a lot of consulting,

1371
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:13,759
Speaker 1: and I talked to I talked to a broad swath

1372
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 1: of people. I see a lot of military soft guys

1373
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:19,720
Speaker 1: from all all the branches. I talked to a lot

1374
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:23,759
Speaker 1: of cops, you know, county, sheriff, CITYPD, s Highway Patrol,

1375
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:27,639
Speaker 1: federal officers. And I cannot tell you, Jack how many

1376
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 1: times I have had people in a class of mine

1377
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 1: or at a at a question and answer thing that

1378
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 1: maybe I'm I'm I'm talking to a group of people,

1379
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:41,599
Speaker 1: and people's perception is that, you know, well, you guys

1380
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:43,479
Speaker 1: behind Defence, you can just do whatever you want. You

1381
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:45,240
Speaker 1: guys got all this money and you don't have to

1382
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 1: follow the rules and blah blah blah blah blah. People

1383
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 1: actually believe this. And you know, I spent a lot

1384
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:55,720
Speaker 1: of years in that in that organization, and I got

1385
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:58,800
Speaker 1: to learn more than I ever thought I would know

1386
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:01,599
Speaker 1: about some of the things that have to do with

1387
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 1: getting permissions and buy an equipment and spending money to

1388
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 1: procure high end items, and what I tell people that

1389
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 1: they're totally unaware of. Not only do we not act

1390
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:16,639
Speaker 1: the way you think we do. We don't run around

1391
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 1: the rules and just run rough shot over regulations, but

1392
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:23,320
Speaker 1: the exact opposite is true. We have more oversight than

1393
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:25,360
Speaker 1: anybody else in Department of Defense. And I I mean,

1394
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 1: that's that's a provable statement, right. Nobody wants to believe that.

1395
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:33,080
Speaker 1: It's like, look, when you're when you're out at the

1396
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:36,160
Speaker 1: very very point the end of the tip of the spear,

1397
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 1: you know, people don't just throw that spear in any direction.

1398
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:42,760
Speaker 1: They want to and then forget about it because the

1399
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:45,800
Speaker 1: stuff they ask you to do is important and it has,

1400
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 1: you know, international incident ramifications if it goes wrong tied

1401
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,760
Speaker 1: all around it. So they don't they don't just go, hey,

1402
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:57,639
Speaker 1: go send a couple of guys over there and rampage

1403
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 1: through that country and let me know what happens whenever

1404
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:02,720
Speaker 1: it's destroyed. Let me know. That's what people think and

1405
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 1: that's not how it works at all, And it doesn't

1406
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:07,960
Speaker 1: work like that from the perspective of, you know, we're

1407
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 1: gonna send guys into combat, or from the perspective of

1408
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 1: we're going to go buy new body armor, or we're

1409
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:15,519
Speaker 1: gonna buy new vehicles that we're going to buy new

1410
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:21,839
Speaker 1: n bgs. There's multiple layers of approval, right, multiple stars

1411
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:25,519
Speaker 1: on people's collars. General officers have to approve at multiple

1412
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:27,720
Speaker 1: different levels for all this stuff to happen on any

1413
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 1: given day or any given a week. And so having

1414
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 1: said that, to go back and answer your question now

1415
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:36,559
Speaker 1: that I've kind of set that stage a little bit,

1416
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:41,920
Speaker 1: that the perception is that soft guys get to do

1417
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:46,599
Speaker 1: what they want, and so when when a special person

1418
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:52,680
Speaker 1: gets accused of something, um, I kind of think that

1419
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:56,400
Speaker 1: they're they're they're they're found guilty in the court of

1420
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 1: public opinion right off the back, because it's like, oh, well,

1421
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 1: he's a blank filling the fill in the blank of

1422
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:04,840
Speaker 1: soft Those guys never follow the rules. Of course he

1423
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:06,559
Speaker 1: did that. Of course he did this. He did And

1424
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:10,120
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not exonerating or or trying to say

1425
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 1: that this guy is not guilty because I don't know

1426
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:15,400
Speaker 1: enough about that case. I don't know, I have no idea.

1427
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:19,040
Speaker 1: All I'm saying is that that, you know, just like

1428
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:22,599
Speaker 1: with a lot of these police shootings where people get

1429
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:25,679
Speaker 1: all upset about what happens before they look at the evidence,

1430
01:17:26,479 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 1: you know, and it's kind of the same thing here.

1431
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:32,479
Speaker 1: We've gotta you've got to let the you gotta let

1432
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:35,679
Speaker 1: the court case run its run, its run its course,

1433
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:40,760
Speaker 1: and let things, you know, happen, and is justice going

1434
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:43,120
Speaker 1: to be done. I guess it's just like any other

1435
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:48,120
Speaker 1: courtal there's there's a there's a stuff falls through the cracks,

1436
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:50,800
Speaker 1: you know. That's uh. I think that's a really good

1437
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:53,200
Speaker 1: point you bring up, because there definitely is a part

1438
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 1: of the population that thinks like special operations guys are

1439
01:17:57,560 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 1: just a bunch of renegades. Like there's that article Indentity

1440
01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:04,200
Speaker 1: talking about a few weeks back, how you know, soft

1441
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:06,880
Speaker 1: guys grow beards because we're renegades and we don't follow

1442
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 1: the rules and all this kind of it was kind

1443
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 1: of it was a really silly article. But then the

1444
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,680
Speaker 1: flip side to that is also that I notice a

1445
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:15,840
Speaker 1: lot of people, some of them are veterans, a lot

1446
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:21,200
Speaker 1: of them are civilians, have this strange idea that there's

1447
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:24,679
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with executing civilians overseas, or that it's okay

1448
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 1: to commit war crimes that you know, once you go

1449
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:33,440
Speaker 1: once you go to war, any sort of behavior becomes acceptable. Yeah. Um,

1450
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:36,680
Speaker 1: so a couple of that's a good point, and and

1451
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:39,360
Speaker 1: you're right, I think that is the generally, the general

1452
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:42,760
Speaker 1: perception across the population. I think that's mostly true what

1453
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:45,840
Speaker 1: you just said, And I don't think it's accurate. I

1454
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:48,479
Speaker 1: think it's an accurate portrayal of what people's perception is.

1455
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:51,800
Speaker 1: I don't think it's correct, and I disagree with you know,

1456
01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:55,040
Speaker 1: we don't we don't get to just go murder civilians because,

1457
01:18:55,240 --> 01:18:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, because we've spent the time in our minds dehumanizing,

1458
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 1: so it's easier for us individually to pull the trigger.

1459
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:05,240
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that they all deserve to die and

1460
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:09,880
Speaker 1: we should that we should, you know, commit genocide, which

1461
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 1: is an extreme version of the point that you're making.

1462
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:14,519
Speaker 1: But I made a little bit of a leap and

1463
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:19,080
Speaker 1: logic there to say that. But you're exactly right. Um,

1464
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:20,880
Speaker 1: A couple of things that come to mind, and I'm

1465
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:23,000
Speaker 1: going to make a circuitous point here. So when we

1466
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:27,160
Speaker 1: first went to Afghanistan early on, everybody started growing a beard.

1467
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:29,760
Speaker 1: And the reason was because we knew that the perception

1468
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:33,320
Speaker 1: on the Ascan side of it is if you're an

1469
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 1: adult male and you don't have a beard, you're not

1470
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:38,559
Speaker 1: manly and you have no credibility. In the case in point,

1471
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 1: we had a guy in my organization who for whatever

1472
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 1: reason just couldn't really grow a beard. He did, he

1473
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:49,479
Speaker 1: tried to, and it just it just his genetic pool

1474
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:51,920
Speaker 1: does not allow for, you know, all kinds of other

1475
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 1: manliness about, but not not facial hair. So he's talking

1476
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:58,120
Speaker 1: to this guy, he told me the story after the fact.

1477
01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:01,679
Speaker 1: He's talking to this I don't know. They were somewhere

1478
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:04,080
Speaker 1: in this village and talking through a turp and and

1479
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 1: trying to get some information and they end up talking

1480
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:10,960
Speaker 1: to this teenage boy, maybe fourteen, sixteen, eighteen years old,

1481
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 1: and they said something about this, and the topic turned

1482
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 1: to hunting, and you know, he said his father had

1483
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:20,519
Speaker 1: killed a bear or something like that up hunting. And

1484
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:22,920
Speaker 1: the guy was standing there, my buddy, he goes, yo,

1485
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 1: I killed the bear when I was hunting last year.

1486
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:29,439
Speaker 1: And they were trying to make common cause with the

1487
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:31,800
Speaker 1: guy or whatever and befriend him, and and this kid

1488
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 1: looked at him, looked at the turp and said something,

1489
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:36,640
Speaker 1: and he goes, that guy couldn't kill a bear. He

1490
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:38,639
Speaker 1: couldn't kill a bear. He doesn't even have a beard.

1491
01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 1: That's ridiculous. And that's so that's a that's a you know,

1492
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:46,120
Speaker 1: you and I know that because we've lived it, but

1493
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 1: but a lot of people don't. You're right. They look

1494
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:51,040
Speaker 1: at it and go, well, the you know, these guys

1495
01:20:51,080 --> 01:20:54,880
Speaker 1: don't need to have beards. And I think that the

1496
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 1: the facial hair in the military has probably been a

1497
01:20:57,400 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 1: little bit overdone, perhaps in the last eighteen years. But

1498
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:04,360
Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, if you're going to

1499
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:08,160
Speaker 1: that part of the world, um, and you don't have

1500
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:13,639
Speaker 1: facial hair, you're looked at as an unserious, unmanly man

1501
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:17,400
Speaker 1: who cannot possibly do what you mean. That's not a

1502
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:19,320
Speaker 1: culture like we have in the United States over there,

1503
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:23,200
Speaker 1: It's just not People don't want to believe that. You know.

1504
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:25,840
Speaker 1: We live in this uh, in this day and age

1505
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:28,880
Speaker 1: in the United States, where I can say any outlandish

1506
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:32,040
Speaker 1: thing I want call, you know, call red black and

1507
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:35,920
Speaker 1: call orange white just because I say it's true, it

1508
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:37,960
Speaker 1: has to be. And the rest of the world doesn't

1509
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:41,920
Speaker 1: work that way, certainly not in in some of the

1510
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:45,320
Speaker 1: countries that we've been dealing with all these years. And

1511
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:47,960
Speaker 1: m anyway, I got off on a tangent there. I'm sorry,

1512
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:52,200
Speaker 1: but the the I just I think it's some of

1513
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 1: it's been a little bit overdone, and I think people's

1514
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:59,760
Speaker 1: perception is um, you know, just like people's perception with anything.

1515
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:03,400
Speaker 1: You can you can dig into anything, and nothing is

1516
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:07,080
Speaker 1: as it appears on TV or in pictures, are in

1517
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:11,880
Speaker 1: magazines or newspapers. It's accurate no matter what it is. Yeah,

1518
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:15,519
Speaker 1: it's definitely a nuanced conversation and a nuanced issue, to

1519
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 1: be sure. I agree. Um, I sort of lost track

1520
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:22,680
Speaker 1: of what we were talking about that. I'm sorry. Well,

1521
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:26,280
Speaker 1: we started talking off just talking about ethical issues and

1522
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:29,240
Speaker 1: special operations and if we've kind of gone down a

1523
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:32,599
Speaker 1: dark path, and I was mentioning how I mean, maybe

1524
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:35,720
Speaker 1: this is a poor perception on my part. I just

1525
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:38,559
Speaker 1: noticed this and mostly in like internet comments and things

1526
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:41,439
Speaker 1: that people write that there's a certain segment of the

1527
01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 1: public that is actually supportive of war crimes at this point,

1528
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 1: and they seem like very enthusiastic about it, like yeah,

1529
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:51,559
Speaker 1: we should kill the women and children, like why not?

1530
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 1: And it's just kind of maybe it's just I make

1531
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:56,280
Speaker 1: too much of a thing out of it, because it's

1532
01:22:56,320 --> 01:22:58,839
Speaker 1: just a stupid thing that people say on the Internet

1533
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 1: without really understanding the implications. And and there are people

1534
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:05,080
Speaker 1: who have never been maybe situation. Um, so maybe I

1535
01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:08,479
Speaker 1: shouldn't put it any weight on that. It's just I

1536
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:10,640
Speaker 1: just see that kind of stuff and it's kind of disturbing.

1537
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:14,880
Speaker 1: I think, I don't disagree with you, and I wonder

1538
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:19,519
Speaker 1: if um sometimes when I see those comments like that,

1539
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:22,280
Speaker 1: and I'm one of these, I'm one of these um

1540
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:26,479
Speaker 1: strange people that when I read articles online, if there's

1541
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:29,720
Speaker 1: a comments section, I will scroll down through and read

1542
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 1: of the comment You're a crazy man. I mean, I

1543
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:37,599
Speaker 1: don't not not a lot of people do that, right,

1544
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:40,200
Speaker 1: And I don't. I don't make comments at all. I

1545
01:23:40,280 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 1: just I just I just kind of lurk in the background.

1546
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:44,759
Speaker 1: But I it's interesting to see what people are thinking.

1547
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:48,640
Speaker 1: And you kind of have to, yeah, you kind of

1548
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:50,599
Speaker 1: have to keep scrolling down the page and filter out

1549
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:52,599
Speaker 1: all of the conspiracy brothers, and you have to filter

1550
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:55,640
Speaker 1: out all the crazies and filter out all the racists

1551
01:23:55,640 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 1: and everybody else. And there's some kernels of truth in

1552
01:23:59,240 --> 01:24:03,760
Speaker 1: there every once in a while. Um, But that I

1553
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:09,000
Speaker 1: wonder sometimes if some of that hasn't when I say

1554
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:11,080
Speaker 1: some of that, that that and that sentences. I wonder

1555
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:13,519
Speaker 1: if some of those comments and people's willingness to say

1556
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:16,200
Speaker 1: things on the internet, I just wonder sometimes if it

1557
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:22,720
Speaker 1: isn't due to this um increasing stress in our society

1558
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:27,600
Speaker 1: today over the dissension between the far left and the

1559
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:30,360
Speaker 1: far right politically, and and you know, that's a whole

1560
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:32,720
Speaker 1: another to three hour long discussion that we could all

1561
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:38,040
Speaker 1: have over some adult beverages someday, UM, Because there's there's

1562
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 1: a stress in our society, in our culture that didn't

1563
01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:43,759
Speaker 1: exist when I first went in the army, didn't exist

1564
01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:47,240
Speaker 1: when I grew up back in the seventies and eighties. Um,

1565
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:50,440
Speaker 1: but it's there now, and it's and it's very acute,

1566
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 1: I think, and I just think that we are we

1567
01:24:55,520 --> 01:25:00,439
Speaker 1: are trying to adapt to uh something too quickly in

1568
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:05,880
Speaker 1: our country. That are our political and our policy makers,

1569
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:08,559
Speaker 1: if you want to put it that way, and and

1570
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:13,280
Speaker 1: and the driving force behind whatever leads our country whichever

1571
01:25:13,479 --> 01:25:15,720
Speaker 1: direction we go. I just think they're they're trying to

1572
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:19,960
Speaker 1: perhaps people think that that too many people in the

1573
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:21,600
Speaker 1: United States, I'll put it this way, I think that

1574
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:23,800
Speaker 1: somebody else besides them is trying to force them to

1575
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:25,840
Speaker 1: do something they don't want to do. And I think

1576
01:25:25,880 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 1: the comments reflect that I wasn't even I wasn't even

1577
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:32,559
Speaker 1: going to take it there. But I think you're right

1578
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 1: that it is related to like the bigger picture national

1579
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:40,200
Speaker 1: politics and the overall tribalism that everyone's kind of taken sides.

1580
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:44,720
Speaker 1: There's a lot of stress. Yeah. You know, my friend,

1581
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:46,800
Speaker 1: I have a really good friend who's an engineer. He's

1582
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:49,160
Speaker 1: a I know a lot of engineers and have met

1583
01:25:49,160 --> 01:25:51,519
Speaker 1: a lot of engineers over the last twenty years, and

1584
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:56,760
Speaker 1: he's he's brilliant and PhD engineer who also can like

1585
01:25:57,960 --> 01:26:00,680
Speaker 1: turn wrenches and fix his own tracks in trucks and

1586
01:26:00,720 --> 01:26:02,240
Speaker 1: car He does all his own maintens on all of

1587
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:05,480
Speaker 1: his own equipment. And he's a you know, this insane

1588
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 1: mad scientist. And he made a comment to me one time.

1589
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:14,160
Speaker 1: We were talking about, uh, electrical circuits and like theoretically

1590
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:17,000
Speaker 1: what happens with e MP pulses and all this other stuff.

1591
01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:20,080
Speaker 1: It was it was an abstract conversation about some stuff,

1592
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:21,639
Speaker 1: but he made this comment to me and he said,

1593
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:26,360
Speaker 1: he goes, organisms don't like change, and they especially don't

1594
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:29,680
Speaker 1: like change at a fast rate. And so and we

1595
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:32,840
Speaker 1: were talking. He's a he's a huge electrical electronics guy,

1596
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 1: and we were talking about like circuit breakers and what

1597
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:40,200
Speaker 1: happens with electrical circuits in general, and circuit boards and

1598
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:43,120
Speaker 1: just all this different stuff. And you know, that's why

1599
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:45,840
Speaker 1: he was explained it to it to me in knuckle

1600
01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:49,679
Speaker 1: dragger terms. You know, when you introduce something that's outside

1601
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 1: the norm to an electrical circuit or to a human

1602
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:54,720
Speaker 1: being and you make too much change happening too much

1603
01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:58,040
Speaker 1: too short a period of time, you have too much

1604
01:26:58,040 --> 01:27:01,479
Speaker 1: stress and something breaks. So if you're if you're not

1605
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:06,280
Speaker 1: used to going to the gym, you don't go to

1606
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:08,960
Speaker 1: the gym when your first workout and put eight pounds

1607
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:12,000
Speaker 1: and try to try to deadlift it. You don't go

1608
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:14,600
Speaker 1: to start swimming lessons and swim five miles in the

1609
01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:17,840
Speaker 1: first day. You you make change over time, and you

1610
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:21,120
Speaker 1: make it slow. And I think a lot of people

1611
01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:24,200
Speaker 1: have a perception of their own space in the United

1612
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:27,760
Speaker 1: States right now, whether they're politically center or right or left.

1613
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 1: I don't really think it matters. I think everybody perceives

1614
01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:34,080
Speaker 1: that they're being asked to change at too faster rate

1615
01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:35,720
Speaker 1: than they want to change, and they're all piste off

1616
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:40,000
Speaker 1: that they're under attack. That's how I think, right and

1617
01:27:40,000 --> 01:27:42,559
Speaker 1: you made You made the perfect example earlier on about

1618
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:45,200
Speaker 1: the first sergeant who's upset that we have brown boots

1619
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:48,320
Speaker 1: now and we can't shine them. It's it's it's the

1620
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:53,120
Speaker 1: institution does not like the change so quickly, and human

1621
01:27:53,160 --> 01:27:55,600
Speaker 1: nature doesn't like to change. People don't like to change,

1622
01:27:56,439 --> 01:28:01,840
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, go, go, this is a I mean,

1623
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:03,960
Speaker 1: I'll put it to you this way. Go find a

1624
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:07,120
Speaker 1: bunch of military retirees. I don't care what branch of service,

1625
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:10,320
Speaker 1: and most of us so I did twenty five years

1626
01:28:10,320 --> 01:28:12,919
Speaker 1: plus a few days. Um, a lot of my buddies

1627
01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:17,880
Speaker 1: did thirty years. I mean, all of my peers are

1628
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:22,000
Speaker 1: guys that were retired master sergeants and sergeants major and

1629
01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:25,360
Speaker 1: a few lieutenant colonels and colonels. That that's my that's

1630
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:29,920
Speaker 1: my peer group, um, you know. And none of us

1631
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:35,120
Speaker 1: are like, you know, uh, on the verge of committing

1632
01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:37,400
Speaker 1: in atrocity. And we're all these you know, angry vets,

1633
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:39,720
Speaker 1: and and we're all you know, draining a bottle every

1634
01:28:39,800 --> 01:28:42,880
Speaker 1: night and all these stereotypical things. Right, But there's a

1635
01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:47,160
Speaker 1: transition out of the military, um, and that's a change

1636
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:52,519
Speaker 1: at you know, midlife. Right that the the oldest, the

1637
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:55,080
Speaker 1: youngest guys retiring out of the out of the military.

1638
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:56,800
Speaker 1: If they get out at twenty years in a day

1639
01:28:56,840 --> 01:28:59,040
Speaker 1: and they went in at the earliest they could there

1640
01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:02,240
Speaker 1: nine years older than they get out. Most of us

1641
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,479
Speaker 1: don't get out until we're forty two to forty six,

1642
01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:08,439
Speaker 1: at least in the in my small area of the world.

1643
01:29:09,120 --> 01:29:11,160
Speaker 1: Lay on top of this, so this is I'm kind

1644
01:29:11,160 --> 01:29:13,320
Speaker 1: of taking this far off feeling. I hope I can

1645
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:14,840
Speaker 1: come back and make a valid point. But I was

1646
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:16,559
Speaker 1: just talking about this is some of the other day.

1647
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 1: The the part, the part that specific to the military,

1648
01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:24,160
Speaker 1: when we talked about change and then within the within

1649
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:26,920
Speaker 1: the culture in the United States, within our society, and

1650
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:32,599
Speaker 1: we talked about um uh assimilating from the military back

1651
01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:36,360
Speaker 1: into the rest of the culture. Right, And this goes

1652
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:38,040
Speaker 1: all the way back to the conversation, the part of

1653
01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:40,880
Speaker 1: the conversation I was talking about being a professional within

1654
01:29:40,920 --> 01:29:43,880
Speaker 1: a profession of arms. When you really start digging into

1655
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:47,759
Speaker 1: that and and and peel it back layer by layer.

1656
01:29:48,479 --> 01:29:53,720
Speaker 1: Um being a in that profession is a much deeper

1657
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:57,880
Speaker 1: commitment on a on a on a mental level, on

1658
01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:01,080
Speaker 1: an emotional level, on a physical level than most people

1659
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:05,160
Speaker 1: commit to anything in their life except maybe their their

1660
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:08,760
Speaker 1: spouse and their kids and their parents. You know, you

1661
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:13,120
Speaker 1: can't be a good special operator unless you're committed, and

1662
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:16,799
Speaker 1: you're because it's it just requires so much of your energy,

1663
01:30:17,120 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 1: mental energy, emotional energy, physical energy to be good at

1664
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:22,880
Speaker 1: it at the level that you need to be to

1665
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:27,800
Speaker 1: perform that your your your family ends up taking a

1666
01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:30,800
Speaker 1: second place, whether you want it to or not, whether

1667
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 1: that's what your intent is or not, it's usually what happens.

1668
01:30:33,320 --> 01:30:36,280
Speaker 1: And so when you take that guy and it's true

1669
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:38,920
Speaker 1: of non soft military as well, or when you take

1670
01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:41,000
Speaker 1: that person. I don't mean to say, guy, it's not

1671
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:44,519
Speaker 1: like some you know, chauvin Is or anything like that.

1672
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:46,439
Speaker 1: But when you take that person out of the military

1673
01:30:46,439 --> 01:30:49,320
Speaker 1: and you put them back in in non military society,

1674
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:53,479
Speaker 1: they they have a transition that they have to undergo

1675
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:56,800
Speaker 1: to stop being a military person and go and do

1676
01:30:57,240 --> 01:30:59,320
Speaker 1: whatever else they're going to do. The transition out of

1677
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:03,960
Speaker 1: the military, I think is uh is uh one of

1678
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:06,439
Speaker 1: the hardest things people have to do. And I'm trying

1679
01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:08,120
Speaker 1: not to make this such a long drawn out point,

1680
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:11,920
Speaker 1: and I apologize for that, that the transition out of

1681
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:15,200
Speaker 1: the military is a difficult thing for people to undergo

1682
01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:18,519
Speaker 1: because they're leaving something that they're so bought into and

1683
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:22,360
Speaker 1: so committed to that that it's hard to leave that behind.

1684
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:24,800
Speaker 1: And the way I explain this to people when I

1685
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:28,880
Speaker 1: try to help folks understand you, you take a person

1686
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:32,920
Speaker 1: who goes in the military at eighteen nineteen years old,

1687
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:36,960
Speaker 1: seventeen eighteen nineteen. For most of us, that that that

1688
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:41,320
Speaker 1: the human brain scientists tell us definitively, this isn't like

1689
01:31:41,400 --> 01:31:45,960
Speaker 1: some um, this isn't a theory. That's the fact that

1690
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:49,599
Speaker 1: the human brain doesn't fully develop until a person years old,

1691
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:54,240
Speaker 1: and especially for males, maybe females a little earlier, but

1692
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:58,760
Speaker 1: for minutes it's and you're taking a guy who has

1693
01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:02,840
Speaker 1: so had eighteen years old, that's fully one third of

1694
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:06,800
Speaker 1: his brain development does not finish until he's been in

1695
01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:10,040
Speaker 1: the military for seven eight nine years for most of us.

1696
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:15,320
Speaker 1: And so you know, and I liken that to the

1697
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:17,639
Speaker 1: the the recipe of the cake has been mixed together,

1698
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:21,400
Speaker 1: and it's been in the oven and baked, but the

1699
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:25,360
Speaker 1: last portion of the baking process, the temperature got turned up,

1700
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:27,559
Speaker 1: or or the kid got taken out and put back

1701
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:29,960
Speaker 1: into some something got altered a little bit. It's not

1702
01:32:30,160 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 1: it's not a bad thing. It's not a good thing.

1703
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:35,920
Speaker 1: It's just different than the general population. And I don't

1704
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:37,799
Speaker 1: think the mill, any of the branch of the service,

1705
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:40,080
Speaker 1: any of them. I don't think they do a good

1706
01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:43,760
Speaker 1: job of helping guys recognize that before they walk out

1707
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:47,479
Speaker 1: the door back into civilian life. I think I think

1708
01:32:47,479 --> 01:32:50,840
Speaker 1: that we have a a couple of good We have

1709
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:53,000
Speaker 1: a number of good outlets for that. We have a

1710
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:59,160
Speaker 1: we have a fairly robust um defense service industry UM,

1711
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:01,640
Speaker 1: which is a good outlet for a lot of a

1712
01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:03,200
Speaker 1: lot of vets, a lot of people getting out of

1713
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:05,679
Speaker 1: the military to go and do work that they're comfortable

1714
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:08,559
Speaker 1: with and with with stuff that they know. It helps

1715
01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:12,439
Speaker 1: the transition out. My personal opinion is that once you've

1716
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:14,920
Speaker 1: been in the military, regardless of whether you do one

1717
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:17,000
Speaker 1: tour of two or three or four years and then

1718
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:19,840
Speaker 1: get out, or you do five or thirty years and

1719
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:25,120
Speaker 1: then retire um, you're you're changed forever for what you're

1720
01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:26,360
Speaker 1: going to do for the rest of your life. And

1721
01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:28,640
Speaker 1: I don't mean that it's a bad change. It's not

1722
01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:30,719
Speaker 1: better than the rest of society, and it's not worse.

1723
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:33,880
Speaker 1: It's just different. It may manifest itself in better or

1724
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:36,040
Speaker 1: worse ways depending on the individual. But that I don't

1725
01:33:36,040 --> 01:33:38,559
Speaker 1: know that that's necessarily the fault of the individual service.

1726
01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:41,040
Speaker 1: I think that's more on the individual um. But we

1727
01:33:41,080 --> 01:33:43,320
Speaker 1: don't we don't do a good job. The military doesn't

1728
01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:45,960
Speaker 1: do a good job of putting people back out when

1729
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:48,840
Speaker 1: they're done with their service. And a lot of people

1730
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:52,400
Speaker 1: have tried in recent years, last fifteen years or so

1731
01:33:52,479 --> 01:33:56,639
Speaker 1: to accommodate veterans, and there's a lot of and there's

1732
01:33:56,680 --> 01:34:01,519
Speaker 1: like twenty thousand different advocacy groups are on one I'm sorry,

1733
01:34:01,560 --> 01:34:04,040
Speaker 1: five and one c three not for profit groups that

1734
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:06,920
Speaker 1: are specifically for trying to help you know, veterans and

1735
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:11,840
Speaker 1: combat veterans. And it's like some that's that's kind of crazy, UM,

1736
01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:14,120
Speaker 1: And I don't think very I don't think very many

1737
01:34:14,160 --> 01:34:18,000
Speaker 1: of them are are as as helpful as people would

1738
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:22,360
Speaker 1: like to think they are. UM. But it's just an

1739
01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:25,479
Speaker 1: interesting It's an interesting phenomenon for me that that we

1740
01:34:25,960 --> 01:34:30,479
Speaker 1: that we have this UM there's this thing you know

1741
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 1: of UM that transition out and I think it's I

1742
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:37,200
Speaker 1: think it's one of the hardest things that people do,

1743
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:39,280
Speaker 1: you know what. And I don't think most of us

1744
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:41,200
Speaker 1: realize how hard it is when we when we start

1745
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:44,920
Speaker 1: on it. No oh no, I know I didn't, UM,

1746
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:47,760
Speaker 1: but it's it was an eye opener for me when

1747
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:51,720
Speaker 1: UM my my friend, uh Jim WESTI he convinced me

1748
01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:54,080
Speaker 1: to go talk to the shrink at v A. Eventually

1749
01:34:54,120 --> 01:34:57,320
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, he's like, you have PTSD like everyone else,

1750
01:34:57,360 --> 01:34:59,800
Speaker 1: gotta go talk to them. So I went there and

1751
01:34:59,840 --> 01:35:03,200
Speaker 1: I I talked to this uh, this psychologist and uh,

1752
01:35:03,240 --> 01:35:05,040
Speaker 1: you know she told me, she's like, you know you're

1753
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:09,880
Speaker 1: a young guy. I was like at the time, thirty one, yeah,

1754
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:13,200
Speaker 1: but probably thirty two. She's like, you're a young guy,

1755
01:35:13,280 --> 01:35:16,519
Speaker 1: you know, like you she was making the point, she's like,

1756
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:18,120
Speaker 1: you know, you see all those guys out in the

1757
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:22,120
Speaker 1: waiting room, right, they're still wearing their like uniform fragments,

1758
01:35:22,200 --> 01:35:24,599
Speaker 1: like they're they're they're like b du top and they're

1759
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:27,040
Speaker 1: wearing their Vietnam vengean hat with all the pins in

1760
01:35:27,080 --> 01:35:29,760
Speaker 1: it and everything. And she's like, those guys are like

1761
01:35:29,800 --> 01:35:33,160
Speaker 1: seventy years old now and they're still doing that because

1762
01:35:33,280 --> 01:35:35,720
Speaker 1: they didn't build any life for themselves on the outside.

1763
01:35:36,400 --> 01:35:38,360
Speaker 1: And she was like, you're young enough guy that like

1764
01:35:38,520 --> 01:35:40,519
Speaker 1: you need to like do something for yourself and like

1765
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:43,960
Speaker 1: build a life for yourself. And I realized like some

1766
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:46,120
Speaker 1: of the stuff I was doing after I got out

1767
01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:48,559
Speaker 1: in the in the venue of journalism. I was going

1768
01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:51,360
Speaker 1: to Syria, I was going to Iraq, I was covering

1769
01:35:51,400 --> 01:35:53,920
Speaker 1: these wars, and it was like in my mind, I

1770
01:35:54,040 --> 01:35:57,240
Speaker 1: was I was not a soldier anymore, and I wasn't

1771
01:35:57,240 --> 01:35:59,759
Speaker 1: carrying a gun in these in these conflict zones anymore

1772
01:35:59,840 --> 01:36:02,400
Speaker 1: or trying to pretend that I was that person. But

1773
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:06,680
Speaker 1: in a way, I was still in that same mentality,

1774
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:08,400
Speaker 1: like that I have to go to war, that I

1775
01:36:08,439 --> 01:36:10,760
Speaker 1: have to go into these conflicts, that I have to

1776
01:36:10,760 --> 01:36:13,400
Speaker 1: deal with all this stuff, and it kind of it

1777
01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:16,600
Speaker 1: began to open my eyes. Well, I mean, and I

1778
01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:19,080
Speaker 1: know I didn't. I didn't know you personally then, Jack,

1779
01:36:19,160 --> 01:36:20,640
Speaker 1: So I don't know, but I'm going to guess that

1780
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:22,840
Speaker 1: you were probably putting on a helmet and body armor

1781
01:36:22,880 --> 01:36:26,360
Speaker 1: every day. In your mind, you were still quote unquote deploying,

1782
01:36:26,479 --> 01:36:28,400
Speaker 1: or maybe you weren't, but in my in my mind

1783
01:36:28,479 --> 01:36:30,599
Speaker 1: mindset was still the same. In my mind, I thought

1784
01:36:30,680 --> 01:36:33,000
Speaker 1: I was an even bigger badass actually, because now I

1785
01:36:33,040 --> 01:36:35,280
Speaker 1: didn't have air support and I didn't I didn't have

1786
01:36:35,439 --> 01:36:37,720
Speaker 1: mission planning and I didn't I didn't have all the

1787
01:36:37,840 --> 01:36:40,360
Speaker 1: all these all these cool things that you have in

1788
01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:42,519
Speaker 1: the military to keep you alive. I didn't have a

1789
01:36:42,560 --> 01:36:47,080
Speaker 1: MEDEVAC helicopter. Um, I don't. I don't think I ever

1790
01:36:47,120 --> 01:36:49,160
Speaker 1: wore body arm or a helmet when I was over

1791
01:36:49,200 --> 01:36:52,080
Speaker 1: there either. But but nonetheless, you're right, in my in

1792
01:36:52,120 --> 01:36:55,400
Speaker 1: my mind, it was like a deployment, right, That's that's

1793
01:36:55,439 --> 01:36:57,040
Speaker 1: exactly that was gonna be the next thing I say,

1794
01:36:57,120 --> 01:37:00,439
Speaker 1: you still think you're deploying, right, because that's where you're comfortable,

1795
01:37:00,439 --> 01:37:03,240
Speaker 1: that's what you want to do. You know. It's a

1796
01:37:03,240 --> 01:37:05,280
Speaker 1: good it's a good point, you know. And I run

1797
01:37:05,320 --> 01:37:07,800
Speaker 1: into a lot of a lot of people that I know.

1798
01:37:08,760 --> 01:37:12,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, I know hundreds hundreds of military

1799
01:37:12,800 --> 01:37:20,559
Speaker 1: veterans um and almost invariably I expect to hear somebody say,

1800
01:37:20,880 --> 01:37:22,840
Speaker 1: you know they you run into it if you haven't

1801
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:24,400
Speaker 1: seen him for a few months or a few years,

1802
01:37:24,439 --> 01:37:26,640
Speaker 1: whatever the case is. And we start talking and and

1803
01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:31,360
Speaker 1: probably percent of the time, the coming I get back

1804
01:37:31,400 --> 01:37:35,360
Speaker 1: from people is, you know, here's where I'm working, here's

1805
01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:38,639
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. And uh, I like it because I'm

1806
01:37:38,680 --> 01:37:44,320
Speaker 1: still helping out the guys. Whoever, whoever, the quote unquote,

1807
01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:48,360
Speaker 1: the guys are for that. For that. I'm sorry, I

1808
01:37:48,400 --> 01:37:49,880
Speaker 1: break up a little bit when I talked about this.

1809
01:37:50,680 --> 01:37:58,799
Speaker 1: M I'm sorry, No, it's okay. Whoever the quote unquote

1810
01:37:58,840 --> 01:38:01,960
Speaker 1: guys are for the person is who they want to help,

1811
01:38:02,200 --> 01:38:06,680
Speaker 1: and they can't they can't walk away from me and

1812
01:38:06,840 --> 01:38:10,080
Speaker 1: leave it behind. So some of them have to wear

1813
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:13,000
Speaker 1: these military fragments and uniform fragments, and they'll they'll have

1814
01:38:13,080 --> 01:38:15,559
Speaker 1: something on their person or some of them just do

1815
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:18,040
Speaker 1: a job that helps them do that, you know, And

1816
01:38:18,479 --> 01:38:21,760
Speaker 1: I I mean I I spend a majority of my time,

1817
01:38:23,439 --> 01:38:29,479
Speaker 1: all of my work right now is um I do.

1818
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:31,720
Speaker 1: I do train. I do a lot of training. And

1819
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:36,680
Speaker 1: if you're if you're if you're a cynical um, if

1820
01:38:36,680 --> 01:38:38,439
Speaker 1: you had a cynical view of the world, and you

1821
01:38:38,479 --> 01:38:41,440
Speaker 1: were and you were reading an article about me, theoretically,

1822
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:44,000
Speaker 1: you know, I just thought it'd occurred to me, like

1823
01:38:44,000 --> 01:38:45,880
Speaker 1: in the last several weeks on this Live sharing with you,

1824
01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:48,240
Speaker 1: somebody who didn't like me and wanted to do a

1825
01:38:48,280 --> 01:38:51,160
Speaker 1: hit piece on me would say that that I am

1826
01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:56,679
Speaker 1: training young kids to be killers because I teach guys

1827
01:38:56,880 --> 01:38:59,760
Speaker 1: rifle and pistol marksmanship. I teach them how to do tactics.

1828
01:39:00,400 --> 01:39:02,240
Speaker 1: And I mean, if you wanted to interpret it that way,

1829
01:39:02,280 --> 01:39:04,479
Speaker 1: I look at it like I'm helping to bring them

1830
01:39:04,520 --> 01:39:07,479
Speaker 1: home safely and alive for their family. You wanted to

1831
01:39:07,479 --> 01:39:10,479
Speaker 1: turn that around, you could say that I'm teaching them

1832
01:39:10,479 --> 01:39:14,320
Speaker 1: to be more efficient killers, whatever you want to call it.

1833
01:39:14,360 --> 01:39:18,360
Speaker 1: I don't care. But I don't have a I don't

1834
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:20,200
Speaker 1: have a thing me personally. I don't have a thing

1835
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:23,439
Speaker 1: where I have to wear uniform fragments, I barely. I

1836
01:39:23,479 --> 01:39:25,360
Speaker 1: don't even like to wear cargo pants. They I just

1837
01:39:25,400 --> 01:39:30,120
Speaker 1: don't like them. Um. I almost refused to wear, you know,

1838
01:39:30,400 --> 01:39:33,000
Speaker 1: a helmet or a plate carrier or anything like that,

1839
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:35,519
Speaker 1: because I just don't I don't want to identify that

1840
01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:37,720
Speaker 1: with that anymore. I actually I thought that I don't

1841
01:39:37,720 --> 01:39:39,400
Speaker 1: want to identify I'm just tired of wearing ship on

1842
01:39:39,400 --> 01:39:41,280
Speaker 1: my body. It makes comfortable and sweaty, and I just

1843
01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:44,640
Speaker 1: don't like it. Um. I remember I talked to a

1844
01:39:44,720 --> 01:39:48,120
Speaker 1: retired sergeant major from your unit once who's a little

1845
01:39:48,120 --> 01:39:50,800
Speaker 1: bit younger than you, and uh, I had this funny

1846
01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:54,759
Speaker 1: conversation with him because he was like, you badass. Sergeant

1847
01:39:54,760 --> 01:39:57,519
Speaker 1: major served in the unit, and he told me. One

1848
01:39:57,560 --> 01:39:59,120
Speaker 1: of the first things he told me, actually, he's like,

1849
01:39:59,160 --> 01:40:02,080
Speaker 1: I never want to touch a gun again. And it

1850
01:40:02,160 --> 01:40:05,320
Speaker 1: wasn't because it's like anti gun or anti Second Amendment

1851
01:40:05,400 --> 01:40:07,439
Speaker 1: or something like that, but I mean that was his

1852
01:40:07,439 --> 01:40:09,640
Speaker 1: whole life for like twenty some odd years, and he

1853
01:40:09,720 --> 01:40:14,240
Speaker 1: was like, no, I'm done with that now. Yeah. Yeah, well,

1854
01:40:14,240 --> 01:40:16,960
Speaker 1: and it's you know, and so I I kind of

1855
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:18,960
Speaker 1: fought it again a little bit when I first retired,

1856
01:40:19,080 --> 01:40:21,040
Speaker 1: and now for ten years now. I retired at No. Nine,

1857
01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:25,160
Speaker 1: and I was determined that I was going to go

1858
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:28,679
Speaker 1: do something else and and create a new identity for myself.

1859
01:40:28,720 --> 01:40:31,720
Speaker 1: And and I'm I don't know that I can, and

1860
01:40:31,960 --> 01:40:35,360
Speaker 1: and I like doing training, and I like sharing stuff

1861
01:40:35,400 --> 01:40:37,760
Speaker 1: with guys, and I like to make you know, I can.

1862
01:40:37,920 --> 01:40:40,720
Speaker 1: I can take my twenty five years and and provide

1863
01:40:41,240 --> 01:40:44,040
Speaker 1: some proper feedback and guidance to guys, and I can

1864
01:40:44,080 --> 01:40:46,080
Speaker 1: help them get to where I got to, maybe in

1865
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:49,240
Speaker 1: only ten or twelve years for them, because I you know,

1866
01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:51,160
Speaker 1: they can. They can, they can learn some things that

1867
01:40:51,240 --> 01:40:53,639
Speaker 1: might save their life, for their buddies life. And so

1868
01:40:54,200 --> 01:40:56,280
Speaker 1: I guess that's my version of given back. I don't know,

1869
01:40:56,439 --> 01:41:00,280
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't, I don't, I haven't at

1870
01:41:00,880 --> 01:41:05,080
Speaker 1: you know, I had to, you know, start walking around

1871
01:41:05,120 --> 01:41:07,960
Speaker 1: we're we're all this cool guy stuff and take pictures

1872
01:41:07,960 --> 01:41:10,080
Speaker 1: of myself and with my helmet and my body, arm

1873
01:41:10,120 --> 01:41:11,800
Speaker 1: around and all this stuff. I just because I don't.

1874
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:14,639
Speaker 1: I don't want that to be part of my identity.

1875
01:41:14,640 --> 01:41:17,280
Speaker 1: I would rather just be able to share with guys

1876
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:20,800
Speaker 1: and maybe do some instruction and some teaching, and you know,

1877
01:41:21,040 --> 01:41:24,360
Speaker 1: and and um, but it's it's a hard thing to

1878
01:41:24,439 --> 01:41:28,160
Speaker 1: do to leave that behind. And I know literally a

1879
01:41:28,200 --> 01:41:30,920
Speaker 1: handful of guys who actually left the left the military

1880
01:41:31,280 --> 01:41:33,479
Speaker 1: and and get a hundred, you know, and I need

1881
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:36,200
Speaker 1: to return and went completely somewhere else. They went to

1882
01:41:36,280 --> 01:41:40,559
Speaker 1: law school. Uh, they went to mechanics school there. You know,

1883
01:41:41,120 --> 01:41:43,760
Speaker 1: a handful of guys, six or eight of them I

1884
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:45,160
Speaker 1: could I could name off the top of my head,

1885
01:41:45,160 --> 01:41:48,320
Speaker 1: and probably no more. Everyone else is doing something that's

1886
01:41:48,360 --> 01:41:51,720
Speaker 1: related to you know, this kind of thing. Oh yeah,

1887
01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:54,479
Speaker 1: I mean I am too. I'm still here working on

1888
01:41:55,200 --> 01:41:58,960
Speaker 1: articles and stories and doing interviews with with people like you.

1889
01:41:59,080 --> 01:42:01,360
Speaker 1: So I mean I still have like one foot in it.

1890
01:42:01,400 --> 01:42:06,479
Speaker 1: I haven't been able to leave it behind completely right right,

1891
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:09,920
Speaker 1: and you know, and it's it's, Um, I don't know

1892
01:42:09,920 --> 01:42:11,519
Speaker 1: if that's because I can't leave it behind, or if

1893
01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:13,559
Speaker 1: I choose not to or be or if I'm if

1894
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:15,519
Speaker 1: I'm arrogant enough to believe that what I'm doing is

1895
01:42:15,520 --> 01:42:17,559
Speaker 1: actually helping people. I haven't. I haven't figured that out

1896
01:42:17,640 --> 01:42:20,760
Speaker 1: yet which one it is? I think, you know, Um,

1897
01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:22,639
Speaker 1: I think it's great that if you can help people,

1898
01:42:22,840 --> 01:42:25,360
Speaker 1: And I mean I just think on a personal level,

1899
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:27,599
Speaker 1: like it has to come from a good place inside

1900
01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:30,080
Speaker 1: of you, because you know there is there can be

1901
01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:34,360
Speaker 1: a negative way to go about it, where you know,

1902
01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:37,000
Speaker 1: if you're putting the focus on like trying to help people,

1903
01:42:37,080 --> 01:42:38,960
Speaker 1: I think that it's a good thing. And you know,

1904
01:42:39,000 --> 01:42:40,840
Speaker 1: like you said, you're just using your skills and your

1905
01:42:40,880 --> 01:42:43,320
Speaker 1: experience to try to pass that on to a younger

1906
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:49,439
Speaker 1: generation and hopefully it helps keep them alive. It would

1907
01:42:49,439 --> 01:42:53,160
Speaker 1: be you know, every uh, I don't know, once once

1908
01:42:53,160 --> 01:42:55,679
Speaker 1: a year, once every two years or so, I get

1909
01:42:55,680 --> 01:42:57,840
Speaker 1: a get a story back or a call from somebody

1910
01:42:57,840 --> 01:43:01,440
Speaker 1: who's like, hey, you know something that you said resonated

1911
01:43:01,479 --> 01:43:04,320
Speaker 1: in this happening. Either they were able to help one

1912
01:43:04,320 --> 01:43:08,200
Speaker 1: of their younger folks make a decision or or they

1913
01:43:08,240 --> 01:43:10,640
Speaker 1: were actually you know, it made a difference in in

1914
01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:14,080
Speaker 1: something and somebody didn't get hurt. And that that makes

1915
01:43:14,120 --> 01:43:17,800
Speaker 1: me happy. And finally get that once every year or

1916
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:20,960
Speaker 1: two or or once for the rest of my life,

1917
01:43:21,000 --> 01:43:23,000
Speaker 1: it would be it would be worth it, you know.

1918
01:43:23,720 --> 01:43:26,439
Speaker 1: It just it's pretty cool when somebody picks up the

1919
01:43:26,439 --> 01:43:30,439
Speaker 1: phone and said, hey, this happened, and thanks. Yeah, And

1920
01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:33,799
Speaker 1: sometimes that's the biggest impact that you have as uh,

1921
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:36,760
Speaker 1: you know, in your case, a retired soldier or an

1922
01:43:36,760 --> 01:43:40,600
Speaker 1: actual soldier, if you're working training other soldiers, is a

1923
01:43:40,600 --> 01:43:42,400
Speaker 1: lot of times the biggest impact that you have on

1924
01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:50,360
Speaker 1: the force, right right. I think it's um the the

1925
01:43:50,080 --> 01:43:53,439
Speaker 1: the other thing that this has happened to me a

1926
01:43:53,479 --> 01:43:55,439
Speaker 1: half a dozen times where I where I get with

1927
01:43:56,760 --> 01:43:59,479
Speaker 1: doing a class with some military guys, and somebody will

1928
01:43:59,479 --> 01:44:01,800
Speaker 1: make a come to me and go, did you say

1929
01:44:01,800 --> 01:44:03,840
Speaker 1: that you're a retired starger major? And I go, yeah,

1930
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:06,280
Speaker 1: it goes you don't act like any start major I've

1931
01:44:06,320 --> 01:44:09,680
Speaker 1: ever met, And I just look at me. What do

1932
01:44:09,680 --> 01:44:14,280
Speaker 1: you think that? What does that mean? Well? Used you?

1933
01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:17,120
Speaker 1: I go, is there a certain way I'm supposed to

1934
01:44:17,160 --> 01:44:19,760
Speaker 1: act because I'm a start major? Or is that just

1935
01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:22,360
Speaker 1: because your perception is different? Or what do you think

1936
01:44:22,400 --> 01:44:24,200
Speaker 1: that is? I'm trying to, you know, trying to pull

1937
01:44:24,200 --> 01:44:26,400
Speaker 1: this out of them, and uh, they don't really know,

1938
01:44:26,479 --> 01:44:29,120
Speaker 1: but they're just like, it's just different, you know. I go, well,

1939
01:44:30,120 --> 01:44:32,920
Speaker 1: where I where I spent most of my time in

1940
01:44:32,920 --> 01:44:35,840
Speaker 1: the army. It was kind of there's no there's no

1941
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:37,880
Speaker 1: need to act like whatever it is you're talking about.

1942
01:44:37,920 --> 01:44:40,200
Speaker 1: They just it's interesting to me that guys will actually

1943
01:44:40,200 --> 01:44:44,679
Speaker 1: make that comment. You know, um, yeah, they're they're referring

1944
01:44:44,720 --> 01:44:49,559
Speaker 1: to the frontal lobotomy that some senior and get at

1945
01:44:49,560 --> 01:44:53,679
Speaker 1: a at a juncture in their career. You know, it's

1946
01:44:53,760 --> 01:44:57,040
Speaker 1: it's funny that you say that that's those two words

1947
01:44:57,080 --> 01:45:00,760
Speaker 1: funtal lobotomy, because I used to make this joke about, uh,

1948
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:03,720
Speaker 1: when when guys go to the Start Major Academy, and

1949
01:45:03,760 --> 01:45:05,320
Speaker 1: I mean I've been making this joke since back when

1950
01:45:05,320 --> 01:45:07,560
Speaker 1: I was in the seven. All right, you go to

1951
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:10,479
Speaker 1: the Start Major Academy and two things happen you. You

1952
01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:13,479
Speaker 1: get a frontal lobotomy and the issue you whatever pet

1953
01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:15,960
Speaker 1: peeve they want you to have. Some guys get built buckles,

1954
01:45:16,280 --> 01:45:18,280
Speaker 1: some guys get shining the boot, some guys get haircut,

1955
01:45:18,360 --> 01:45:21,479
Speaker 1: some guys get cigarette butts on the grass. Like I

1956
01:45:21,560 --> 01:45:24,400
Speaker 1: remember there was one sergeant major who didn't like o

1957
01:45:24,600 --> 01:45:29,760
Speaker 1: d American flags, like the subdued American flag. That was

1958
01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:36,920
Speaker 1: his pet peeve. Wow. Yeah, yeah, so you know whatever. Yeah,

1959
01:45:37,000 --> 01:45:39,000
Speaker 1: it just kind of but it's interesting you say that

1960
01:45:39,040 --> 01:45:41,479
Speaker 1: because I've been I've been making that joke for years.

1961
01:45:41,520 --> 01:45:43,880
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, you go there, they lobotomize you, and

1962
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:45,479
Speaker 1: then the issue your pet peeve and all you can

1963
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:49,360
Speaker 1: do cool, go paint the rocks blue. You know, it's

1964
01:45:49,400 --> 01:45:52,320
Speaker 1: always some some weird thing. I remember my my old

1965
01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:54,400
Speaker 1: team sergeant when I was in fifth group, because he

1966
01:45:54,920 --> 01:45:57,800
Speaker 1: wanted to make sergeant major. And I remember making the

1967
01:45:58,120 --> 01:46:00,080
Speaker 1: exact joke. He's like, yeah, I gotta figure out what

1968
01:46:00,200 --> 01:46:08,360
Speaker 1: my pet piece is before I get exactly uh that,

1969
01:46:09,080 --> 01:46:14,000
Speaker 1: you know when I uh So I went to the

1970
01:46:14,040 --> 01:46:16,120
Speaker 1: I went to the Star Major Academy in like oh

1971
01:46:16,240 --> 01:46:20,280
Speaker 1: five and I'm sitting there and we you know, we

1972
01:46:20,560 --> 01:46:23,120
Speaker 1: we show up in in the first couple of days

1973
01:46:23,120 --> 01:46:25,080
Speaker 1: and you get you go to your n CEO school

1974
01:46:25,160 --> 01:46:27,280
Speaker 1: and you have you they put you in a small group, right,

1975
01:46:27,720 --> 01:46:30,280
Speaker 1: and they go around the room. It's like, hey, introduce

1976
01:46:30,320 --> 01:46:32,479
Speaker 1: yourself and state your your goal for the course. So

1977
01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:35,040
Speaker 1: we had just come from the big auditorium and and

1978
01:46:35,479 --> 01:46:37,920
Speaker 1: the star major who was the commandant of the school.

1979
01:46:38,560 --> 01:46:39,840
Speaker 1: You know when they say to but you don't act

1980
01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:41,640
Speaker 1: like any start major I met. Well, this guy was

1981
01:46:41,720 --> 01:46:45,400
Speaker 1: the stereotypical opposite, you know, puffing out his chest, walking

1982
01:46:45,439 --> 01:46:47,439
Speaker 1: back and forth on the stage, just being a being

1983
01:46:47,479 --> 01:46:51,040
Speaker 1: an ass. You know. Um, I mean he just thought

1984
01:46:51,080 --> 01:46:52,760
Speaker 1: he was being motivating, but it's it's kind of like

1985
01:46:52,840 --> 01:46:55,040
Speaker 1: I'm I'm sitting here looking at it some nineteen twenty

1986
01:46:55,120 --> 01:46:57,600
Speaker 1: years in the service at this point, just pinned on

1987
01:46:57,880 --> 01:47:01,559
Speaker 1: Star Major and I'm I'm surrounded by all these Sergeants Major.

1988
01:47:01,600 --> 01:47:03,520
Speaker 1: We had like two or fifty people in this auditorium,

1989
01:47:03,760 --> 01:47:05,479
Speaker 1: and the thought that kept coming back to my head

1990
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:09,960
Speaker 1: was our peers are are time and service peers. The

1991
01:47:09,960 --> 01:47:13,080
Speaker 1: commissioned officers who were the tenant colonels and colonels are

1992
01:47:13,160 --> 01:47:16,400
Speaker 1: going to a school similar to this one, as you know,

1993
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:19,680
Speaker 1: for for the time of gay level leadership. They're going

1994
01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:23,559
Speaker 1: to Carlisle Barracks and getting their master's degree. And we've

1995
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:25,680
Speaker 1: got to start. Major strutting back and forth on the

1996
01:47:25,800 --> 01:47:29,760
Speaker 1: stage in this auditorium on the introduction uh thing that

1997
01:47:29,840 --> 01:47:32,200
Speaker 1: he did when we all showed up there, and he's

1998
01:47:32,600 --> 01:47:35,960
Speaker 1: he's strutting like a like a bantam rooster, trying to

1999
01:47:36,040 --> 01:47:38,519
Speaker 1: motivate us, like we're a bunch of p fcs, And

2000
01:47:38,640 --> 01:47:42,479
Speaker 1: he says, can I get a Hua? Did you give him?

2001
01:47:42,880 --> 01:47:45,720
Speaker 1: This is what he said, And and everyone in the

2002
01:47:45,800 --> 01:47:47,920
Speaker 1: crowd except for like me and a couple other guys

2003
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:50,799
Speaker 1: I know, all sounded off with this loud and thunderous

2004
01:47:51,680 --> 01:47:55,840
Speaker 1: hua right, and the top of my head blow off.

2005
01:47:55,880 --> 01:47:57,880
Speaker 1: I was so angry I just about walked out because

2006
01:47:57,920 --> 01:48:01,360
Speaker 1: I'm just like, this is the most child ish thing

2007
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:05,320
Speaker 1: I've ever seen in my life. Is this a profession

2008
01:48:05,520 --> 01:48:11,200
Speaker 1: in a profession of arms? Or is it? Or is it?

2009
01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:16,800
Speaker 1: Or is it? Uh? You know, I'm still using the

2010
01:48:16,840 --> 01:48:20,080
Speaker 1: old school phrase, right, the old school. The first n

2011
01:48:20,160 --> 01:48:22,040
Speaker 1: CEO leadership school you go to when I grew up

2012
01:48:22,080 --> 01:48:23,880
Speaker 1: was p l DC. They've changed it to something else,

2013
01:48:24,000 --> 01:48:29,360
Speaker 1: I forget. Yeah, And so so it's it's that course

2014
01:48:29,439 --> 01:48:32,439
Speaker 1: for Sergeant Major's basically, we haven't we haven't done anything

2015
01:48:32,520 --> 01:48:35,759
Speaker 1: to make n CEO education any better. We're still acting

2016
01:48:35,840 --> 01:48:38,439
Speaker 1: like dumbasses, even though he want us to be battalion

2017
01:48:38,520 --> 01:48:42,000
Speaker 1: and brigade level of leaders. Right. I mean it, this

2018
01:48:42,120 --> 01:48:44,240
Speaker 1: is the most preposterous thing I've ever seen. I was

2019
01:48:44,360 --> 01:48:46,720
Speaker 1: so angry about this. So we go back into our

2020
01:48:46,760 --> 01:48:49,400
Speaker 1: small groups that afternoon or the next day, and the

2021
01:48:49,479 --> 01:48:52,800
Speaker 1: small group leader says, Okay, we're gonna go around the room.

2022
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:55,519
Speaker 1: Everybody introduce yourself. So I we did. It comes to

2023
01:48:55,600 --> 01:48:57,599
Speaker 1: me and I said, here's who I am, and here's

2024
01:48:57,600 --> 01:49:00,200
Speaker 1: where I work. And I said, my goal for the

2025
01:49:00,280 --> 01:49:05,040
Speaker 1: course is to do one thing. After I finished the

2026
01:49:05,120 --> 01:49:07,960
Speaker 1: sentence that I'm speaking to you right now because I

2027
01:49:08,040 --> 01:49:10,640
Speaker 1: have to say the word to prove my point. I

2028
01:49:10,720 --> 01:49:14,240
Speaker 1: will not say the word who again right after what

2029
01:49:14,320 --> 01:49:17,400
Speaker 1: I just said a second ago. And they looked at

2030
01:49:17,439 --> 01:49:19,080
Speaker 1: me like, oh, yeah you will, Yeah you will, Yeah

2031
01:49:19,080 --> 01:49:22,280
Speaker 1: you are. I'm like, Nope, ain't gonna happen because you

2032
01:49:22,400 --> 01:49:25,679
Speaker 1: people are You people are moronic imbeciles for even going

2033
01:49:25,760 --> 01:49:28,360
Speaker 1: down that path and acting like a bunch of buffoons.

2034
01:49:29,760 --> 01:49:32,080
Speaker 1: And they looked at me it was like, well, who

2035
01:49:32,120 --> 01:49:33,600
Speaker 1: do you think you are? And dadda d da this,

2036
01:49:33,640 --> 01:49:35,840
Speaker 1: and I'm like, look, I'm just telling you, and I

2037
01:49:36,439 --> 01:49:38,599
Speaker 1: made my case kind of like I did. Like your peers,

2038
01:49:39,240 --> 01:49:44,000
Speaker 1: all of our officer commissioned officer peers in the military,

2039
01:49:44,040 --> 01:49:45,720
Speaker 1: who have the same amount of service time that we

2040
01:49:45,840 --> 01:49:50,519
Speaker 1: have and supposedly similar experience, are working on their master's degrees,

2041
01:49:51,360 --> 01:49:54,320
Speaker 1: and you idiots are saying whoa when the sergeant major

2042
01:49:54,400 --> 01:49:56,840
Speaker 1: asks you to in the auditorium. So you telling me

2043
01:49:57,439 --> 01:49:59,639
Speaker 1: who's right or who's wrong here, don't don't even bring

2044
01:49:59,720 --> 01:50:01,559
Speaker 1: this up to me. You know, I was pretty angry.

2045
01:50:01,640 --> 01:50:03,200
Speaker 1: Now I sound like I'm venting to you, but it

2046
01:50:03,280 --> 01:50:05,240
Speaker 1: was just like, come on, man, you sound like a

2047
01:50:05,880 --> 01:50:10,800
Speaker 1: soft guy, Jason throwing your beard whenever you want, just

2048
01:50:10,920 --> 01:50:14,800
Speaker 1: completely out of control. Yeah I know, I know, no permission,

2049
01:50:14,960 --> 01:50:18,200
Speaker 1: just just wantingly run rough shot over everyone around me.

2050
01:50:19,479 --> 01:50:22,920
Speaker 1: But but it's but that that's the you know, if

2051
01:50:22,960 --> 01:50:26,800
Speaker 1: I could, if I could encapsulate or summarize this entire

2052
01:50:26,880 --> 01:50:29,519
Speaker 1: conversation you and I have had, Jack, there's a there's

2053
01:50:29,520 --> 01:50:33,840
Speaker 1: a cultural piece that's that centers on that right there.

2054
01:50:33,920 --> 01:50:37,280
Speaker 1: In my opinion, what is it about us that thinks

2055
01:50:37,360 --> 01:50:41,880
Speaker 1: that you know, uh that what is it about it

2056
01:50:42,000 --> 01:50:44,240
Speaker 1: that you like like you know both of mine, Like

2057
01:50:44,280 --> 01:50:46,040
Speaker 1: I said earlier, both of my kids are in the Army,

2058
01:50:46,080 --> 01:50:50,120
Speaker 1: and young troops have an expectation that their first sergeants

2059
01:50:50,120 --> 01:50:53,519
Speaker 1: since sergeant majors, are going to yell at them because

2060
01:50:53,520 --> 01:50:57,160
Speaker 1: that's what they're supposed to do. But yet I've had

2061
01:50:57,200 --> 01:51:00,559
Speaker 1: an opportunity to do a couple of different um small

2062
01:51:00,640 --> 01:51:04,160
Speaker 1: group session leader type of things with since I retired,

2063
01:51:04,240 --> 01:51:06,519
Speaker 1: with with troops that are still in the Army. And

2064
01:51:07,080 --> 01:51:09,360
Speaker 1: and I've asked, I asked. Every time I asked this question,

2065
01:51:09,960 --> 01:51:11,960
Speaker 1: I get an answer this contradictory to what I just

2066
01:51:12,000 --> 01:51:14,759
Speaker 1: said about about young troops expectations of their first sergeants

2067
01:51:14,760 --> 01:51:18,320
Speaker 1: and start maters. I said, everybody in the room, think

2068
01:51:18,400 --> 01:51:21,839
Speaker 1: back to the best leader you ever had in the military,

2069
01:51:21,920 --> 01:51:25,600
Speaker 1: the best first, first, and second and third, best n

2070
01:51:25,680 --> 01:51:29,160
Speaker 1: CEO or senior officer leader that you ever had up

2071
01:51:29,200 --> 01:51:31,479
Speaker 1: to this point in your time in the army, And

2072
01:51:31,800 --> 01:51:34,880
Speaker 1: and raise your hand, you know, by a show of hands,

2073
01:51:34,920 --> 01:51:37,280
Speaker 1: how many of those people that you're thinking about walked

2074
01:51:37,320 --> 01:51:39,400
Speaker 1: around and puffed out their chest and yelled and screamed

2075
01:51:39,439 --> 01:51:41,840
Speaker 1: at people. And I never got one hand from that jack,

2076
01:51:41,920 --> 01:51:45,439
Speaker 1: not one, none of them. So how is it that

2077
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:48,560
Speaker 1: that we expect that? But then when we don't get it,

2078
01:51:48,600 --> 01:51:52,080
Speaker 1: and we have a guy who's a thoughtful leader, who

2079
01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:55,519
Speaker 1: you know, who can think through stuff and just look

2080
01:51:55,560 --> 01:51:58,880
Speaker 1: at you as a as a human being instead of

2081
01:51:58,960 --> 01:52:01,280
Speaker 1: as a star and first class or as instead of

2082
01:52:01,320 --> 01:52:03,000
Speaker 1: as an E three or an E five or and

2083
01:52:03,080 --> 01:52:04,960
Speaker 1: EA seven or whatever, it's like, hey, I need some

2084
01:52:05,080 --> 01:52:06,680
Speaker 1: information from me. What do you have. Let's have a

2085
01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:10,120
Speaker 1: conversation about something, and you okay, well, we'll both respect

2086
01:52:10,200 --> 01:52:12,800
Speaker 1: military courtesy and you can address me by my rank

2087
01:52:12,880 --> 01:52:15,000
Speaker 1: and da da da da da. But but beyond that,

2088
01:52:15,080 --> 01:52:17,200
Speaker 1: we're just two people having a conversation. It doesn't always

2089
01:52:17,200 --> 01:52:20,120
Speaker 1: have to be you know, yeah, I'm gonna crush you

2090
01:52:20,200 --> 01:52:21,840
Speaker 1: if you don't give me the information that I want

2091
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:26,000
Speaker 1: right now from the front rate leaning rest. But Jameson, Uh,

2092
01:52:26,280 --> 01:52:28,640
Speaker 1: this has been awesome conversation. I know, we gotta let

2093
01:52:28,680 --> 01:52:32,040
Speaker 1: you go, um and I gotta get run in two Um,

2094
01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:34,720
Speaker 1: no worries, no worries. Thank you. Thank you so much

2095
01:52:34,800 --> 01:52:39,439
Speaker 1: for uh giving me the giving me a rope to

2096
01:52:39,479 --> 01:52:41,439
Speaker 1: hang myself and to talk at all this stuff. I

2097
01:52:41,479 --> 01:52:44,120
Speaker 1: really appreciate. This has been a really great conversation. Actually,

2098
01:52:44,120 --> 01:52:46,000
Speaker 1: I'd like to do it again sometime if you're up

2099
01:52:46,080 --> 01:52:50,679
Speaker 1: for it. Um. But it's really cool. You bet, yeah,

2100
01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:52,719
Speaker 1: And I really thank you. I really appreciate you, guys.

2101
01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:55,920
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. It's been helpful for me. Good

2102
01:52:55,960 --> 01:52:58,600
Speaker 1: and good. I'm glad. Um. Is there anything else you

2103
01:52:58,640 --> 01:53:01,720
Speaker 1: want to throw out there before we we get going? No? No,

2104
01:53:01,880 --> 01:53:04,840
Speaker 1: I I just I just really appreciate what you're doing.

2105
01:53:04,960 --> 01:53:09,599
Speaker 1: And I'm thankful that that you. When when my buddy

2106
01:53:09,640 --> 01:53:11,680
Speaker 1: called me and said he had talked to you, I

2107
01:53:11,800 --> 01:53:13,720
Speaker 1: was kind of like, okay, that's cool, you know, thanks

2108
01:53:13,760 --> 01:53:16,400
Speaker 1: a lot. And then and then when this actually happened,

2109
01:53:16,439 --> 01:53:17,880
Speaker 1: and we had a chat on the phone the other day.

2110
01:53:17,880 --> 01:53:20,320
Speaker 1: I thought, wow, this just this is pretty cool. Um,

2111
01:53:21,320 --> 01:53:24,200
Speaker 1: you know, so thanks for the opportunity. And I hope,

2112
01:53:24,960 --> 01:53:27,880
Speaker 1: I hope one person out there, some somewhere learned something

2113
01:53:28,120 --> 01:53:29,920
Speaker 1: or picked up a little morsel they can use that

2114
01:53:29,920 --> 01:53:33,200
Speaker 1: would be gratifying to me. Yeah, thank you, Jason. Um.

2115
01:53:33,640 --> 01:53:35,880
Speaker 1: We we definitely appreciate having you on as well. And

2116
01:53:36,120 --> 01:53:38,760
Speaker 1: you know, the words of wisdom. I definitely think there

2117
01:53:38,800 --> 01:53:40,560
Speaker 1: are other people out there who can learn from it.

2118
01:53:40,880 --> 01:53:45,760
Speaker 1: Absolutely well. I appreciate you saying that. Um, I did

2119
01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:47,600
Speaker 1: lose track of the time, and you're right, I do

2120
01:53:47,720 --> 01:53:49,439
Speaker 1: have to go and I know you do as well.

2121
01:53:49,520 --> 01:53:52,040
Speaker 1: And I really I can't thank you enough for the

2122
01:53:52,080 --> 01:53:56,400
Speaker 1: opportunity and uh, thanks to your audience and everybody else

2123
01:53:56,479 --> 01:53:58,680
Speaker 1: that makes us happen. And uh I look forward to

2124
01:53:58,800 --> 01:54:01,160
Speaker 1: chatting with you again, I hope sooner than later. Right on,

2125
01:54:01,400 --> 01:54:03,320
Speaker 1: right on, all right, Well, thank you, Jason, I'll stay

2126
01:54:03,320 --> 01:54:06,080
Speaker 1: in touch. Okay, thanks Jack, you do the rest of

2127
01:54:06,120 --> 01:54:09,719
Speaker 1: your week. Yeah you too. Take care. That was Jason Bailey.

2128
01:54:10,479 --> 01:54:15,360
Speaker 1: That was another knock it out of the park home run.

2129
01:54:16,400 --> 01:54:18,200
Speaker 1: It was a really cool He's a really cool, down

2130
01:54:18,240 --> 01:54:22,160
Speaker 1: to earth guy. Well said that he you don't know

2131
01:54:22,240 --> 01:54:23,680
Speaker 1: what you're getting. I mean, you spoke to him on

2132
01:54:23,720 --> 01:54:28,040
Speaker 1: the phone. Um, that was just it was a conversation.

2133
01:54:28,120 --> 01:54:30,479
Speaker 1: It wasn't like that didn't feel like an interview. Yeah,

2134
01:54:31,200 --> 01:54:33,960
Speaker 1: it was a conversation. Well, I Lee, I mean, really

2135
01:54:34,040 --> 01:54:38,280
Speaker 1: he should be interviewing me. Uh, I'm sorry. I mean

2136
01:54:39,000 --> 01:54:40,600
Speaker 1: what I mean is he's the expert. I mean, he

2137
01:54:40,640 --> 01:54:42,560
Speaker 1: has twenty five years in the army, So I just

2138
01:54:42,680 --> 01:54:44,520
Speaker 1: kind of I just kind of have to probe the

2139
01:54:44,560 --> 01:54:47,520
Speaker 1: wire a little bit and kind of and he was

2140
01:54:47,680 --> 01:54:50,720
Speaker 1: he's like long story, short, long sorce No, no, give

2141
01:54:50,760 --> 01:54:53,960
Speaker 1: the long answers. We're here to listen. No. I would

2142
01:54:54,000 --> 01:54:55,480
Speaker 1: have kept him on the phone for another hour and

2143
01:54:55,520 --> 01:54:57,440
Speaker 1: a half, but um, he has to go. He has

2144
01:54:57,480 --> 01:55:00,120
Speaker 1: his training that he's doing and I have to go

2145
01:55:00,280 --> 01:55:03,240
Speaker 1: run and I have an appointment as well, so we'll

2146
01:55:03,320 --> 01:55:05,680
Speaker 1: we'll get him on again sometime though, and uh it

2147
01:55:05,800 --> 01:55:10,120
Speaker 1: continued that conversation. Absolutely, he was um, well spoken, just

2148
01:55:10,400 --> 01:55:13,080
Speaker 1: very like easy, easy to listen to. I mean, obviously

2149
01:55:13,080 --> 01:55:14,760
Speaker 1: I don't I don't talk about trying the interviews. Um,

2150
01:55:15,680 --> 01:55:20,040
Speaker 1: just he seems like a genuinely good dude. Yeah, he is. Well,

2151
01:55:20,640 --> 01:55:23,040
Speaker 1: that's that, and I'm not gonna dilly dally any longer.

2152
01:55:23,080 --> 01:55:24,960
Speaker 1: I know you've got stuff to do, so let me

2153
01:55:25,040 --> 01:55:27,760
Speaker 1: hit the adverage and then we'll get on our way them.

2154
01:55:29,280 --> 01:55:31,120
Speaker 1: Be sure to check out Create Club. It's a club

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Speaker 1: already signed up at the news Rep dot com, you've

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Speaker 1: gotta get on board. There's expert reporting and actuable intelligence

2178
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Speaker 1: from your favorite writers you've heard on here, like my

2179
01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:52,280
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2187
01:57:13,720 --> 01:57:17,040
Speaker 1: That's the news rep dot com. By the way, if

2188
01:57:17,040 --> 01:57:19,880
Speaker 1: you're not aware, we have our own softwap radio app

2189
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Speaker 1: that you can download for free on iPhone or Android,

2190
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Speaker 1: and our homepage is softwarep radio dot com where you

2191
01:57:25,840 --> 01:57:28,760
Speaker 1: can see our full archive of shows. As always, keep

2192
01:57:28,840 --> 01:57:32,760
Speaker 1: up with us on social media at SOFTWAREP radio as well.

2193
01:57:33,640 --> 01:57:38,720
Speaker 1: And with that, uh that concludes episode UM is a

2194
01:57:38,800 --> 01:57:41,640
Speaker 1: good one. And then we got are we are? We?

2195
01:57:42,000 --> 01:57:45,840
Speaker 1: Are we fully revealing or just a slight tease? Choice

2196
01:57:45,880 --> 01:57:49,440
Speaker 1: is yours? Oh? We we we let it come out

2197
01:57:49,520 --> 01:57:51,320
Speaker 1: and we let it all come out on Thursday. But

2198
01:57:51,680 --> 01:57:55,280
Speaker 1: it's like a former uh C I a officer who

2199
01:57:55,600 --> 01:57:57,280
Speaker 1: is going to be on the show and he's gonna

2200
01:57:57,280 --> 01:58:01,320
Speaker 1: be as entertaining like Jason. I don't think he's done

2201
01:58:01,360 --> 01:58:06,120
Speaker 1: many interviews, right, So another great listen, UM, Jason was excellent.

2202
01:58:06,200 --> 01:58:08,120
Speaker 1: Can't wait, and he sounds like he's willing to come

2203
01:58:08,160 --> 01:58:11,280
Speaker 1: back on and hopefully you guys schedules are free where

2204
01:58:11,280 --> 01:58:13,080
Speaker 1: you can talk for seven hours, because I feel like

2205
01:58:13,120 --> 01:58:16,000
Speaker 1: that's where that was headed. Yeah it was, I knew it. UM,

2206
01:58:16,280 --> 01:58:18,880
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for listening. As always, Jack's gotta run.

2207
01:58:19,000 --> 01:58:23,480
Speaker 1: I got things to do. UM subscribe, rate US, review US.

2208
01:58:24,360 --> 01:58:27,360
Speaker 1: I'd be an idiot if I didn't mention the biggest

2209
01:58:27,400 --> 01:58:31,880
Speaker 1: thing here. You gotta buy Murphy's Law audio book, audio books.

2210
01:58:31,880 --> 01:58:33,040
Speaker 1: If you want to read it, read it, if you

2211
01:58:33,080 --> 01:58:35,400
Speaker 1: want to listen to it. Audio book. That's Murphy's Law,

2212
01:58:35,680 --> 01:58:38,360
Speaker 1: that's Jack Murphy I'm Dennis Jones. This is Episode four

2213
01:58:38,480 --> 01:58:41,800
Speaker 1: sixty eight Soft Reap Radio. Take care of everybody You've

2214
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:46,160
Speaker 1: been listening to Self Rep Radio. New episodes up every

2215
01:58:46,240 --> 01:58:50,280
Speaker 1: Wednesday and Friday. Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter

2216
01:58:50,680 --> 01:58:52,000
Speaker 1: at self Rep Radio