1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of I Heart 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: Radio Together Everything so don't don't and welcome back to 3 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: the Worst Year Ever. Dang, We're still here. Keep ever 4 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: never stops. It really does, doesn't it. Why would we 5 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 1: ever leave? How could we possibly leave? Let us know 6 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: if if you know, how we could possibly leave, because 7 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: we are pretty desperate at this point. Yeah m hm. 8 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: With that, we have a really great interview for you 9 00:00:54,000 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: guys today with freelance journalists aim and then did I right? 10 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: Aim in? Then Daniel you got me? Who is who 11 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: is currently covering the military coup in myan mar And 12 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: we were very very grateful that they took the time 13 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: to speak with us because it's a pretty dire situation 14 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 1: and um and and it was a very informative conversation. 15 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 1: You guys got stuff. It's about to happen. That happen. 16 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: You can't stop it. Like the year, nothing can be 17 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: done to stop this from hitting your ears. It's inevitable. 18 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: You do not changing of the tides. Have an option 19 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: to press pause or stop your buckle up, baby know. 20 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: Whenever somebody pauses this podcast, we send out Cody with 21 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: a brick to break their kneecaps. It hasn't worked yet, 22 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: but I still go. I still go and try. No 23 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: he is he is not good at the job in 24 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: it but no it's not. But don't make us fire Cody. 25 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: Not during a pandemic. No, So hand over your knees 26 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: to Cody, or just keep listening to the podcast that's 27 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: about to come. So today we are joined by Aim 28 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: and then uh Burmese, American pulitz Or Prize winning freelance 29 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: journalists currently covering the military coup that started on February 30 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: one in myan Mar and up top. Um, I just 31 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: want to acknowledge this is an incredibly dangerous time to 32 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: be journalists covering this, and we just really want to 33 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: thank you for taking the time and check in to 34 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: see how you're doing, because this is a lot that 35 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: you've been been going through right now. Yeah, no, thank 36 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: you for covering the story. Um. I know we got 37 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: a lot of attention in the first month or so 38 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: of the coup, and now that they have kind of 39 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: I guess plateau in terms of action, Uh, there's a 40 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: lot less coverage on and so it's really great to 41 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: see platforms like this that are listed in being sure 42 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: that this stay is in the national conversation, especially in 43 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: countries like the US, where you know, a big difference 44 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: can be made. We'll see decisions. Would you be able 45 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: to give us kind of an overview of how things 46 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: have gone, right, Like, here's how how how it started, 47 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: Here's when violence escalated, Here's where we are now, just 48 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: to kind of start us off. Yeah. So basically, this 49 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,399 Speaker 1: coup was started on February one, and now I say 50 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: it's started because to me, this coup is something that 51 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: hasn't been successful yet. The military arrested a number of 52 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: elected leaders on the day that the new government was 53 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: supposed to form, and you know, they attempted to essentially 54 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: take over all government functions and to be in charge 55 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: of the country. But you know, given that there's been 56 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: mass protests throughout the streets every single day essentially since 57 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: the beginning of February um there is a civil disobedience 58 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: movement that has as actually stopped the banking system in 59 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: the country. And you know, doctors, teachers, uh anyone who 60 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: has uh I been working with the government or through 61 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: the government as an employee have largely stopped working. You know, 62 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: they haven't been able to be the government. They haven't 63 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: been able to exert control except through the end of 64 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: a gun and sort of through terror. Um. Yeah, so 65 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: you know, they arrested over a hundred fifty elected politicians 66 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: on that first day, essentially preventing the new government from forming, 67 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,559 Speaker 1: and began arresting activists, union leaders, people who would pose 68 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: a threat, who could bring the public together in any 69 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: sort of organized way. Uh. And yet you know, you 70 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: had millions of people who have been out industries protesting 71 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: even as the military began to kill people essentially in 72 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: cold blood. There's been over seven hundred people who are 73 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: now confirmed to have and killed by the military or police. 74 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:08,239 Speaker 1: Um since the beginning of the coup by local rights groups. Uh. 75 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: Thousands of people have been jailed, a number of them 76 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,239 Speaker 1: have been released, but there are hundreds who have essentially 77 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: just been disappeared. Um. You know, their families don't know 78 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: where they are, but the military and the police also 79 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: will not admit that they have been taken. And so 80 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: those people are the ones people are the most worried 81 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: about because those are the sorts of people who come 82 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: back as mutilated bodies essentially. Um. You know, you have politicians, 83 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: um in hiding activists and hiding journalists who have either 84 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: left the country or in hiding. UM. And you know, 85 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: on the other side of the resistance to the coup, 86 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: you know, very early on there was a leaderless mass 87 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: movement that sprung up, largely led by civil servants such 88 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: as doctors and teachers, but also you know, people you 89 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: would normally not think of as leaders in society, like 90 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: railway workers and garment industy workers, people who are heavily 91 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: unionized and really organized and who you know have been 92 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: fighting for their rights and freedoms for a long time. 93 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: And even as the movement right now is very focused 94 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: on returning to a civilian government and restoring people who 95 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: have rightfully won the two thou twenty election. UM. You know, 96 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: people do also really understand that in the last ten 97 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: years of largely civilian quasi democratic rule, that a lot 98 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: of people, especially the poor, especially ethnic and religious minorities, 99 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: were not treated as full country who had equal rights. Um. 100 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: And now we've moved into a base where there's essentially 101 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: to opposing groups uh claiming to be the government of 102 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: rmart There is the National Unity Government and all of 103 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: their allies. Um. There's a lot of acronyms. I'm not 104 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: going to go into that right now. But they're called 105 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: the nug um. We like to call ourselves nuggets. Now. 106 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: All of them are um, were elected, many of them 107 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: were appointed. Many of them were early protest leaders who 108 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: you know are in their late twenties thirties, people who 109 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: would never have made it into governments in the previous times. UM. 110 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: And they are now, you know, trying to get international recognition. UM. 111 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: And this is the National Unity government. Yeah, so now 112 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: they're trying to set up essentially a functional governments, a 113 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: an alternative system for people to answer to and work 114 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: with who are not the military. And so right now, 115 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: the power struggle is really between these two groups, UM, 116 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: one of whom is made up of elected officials as 117 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: well as leaders who have emerged through the antique coquipment. 118 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: And then the military, which you know, not only are 119 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: they very oppressive and brutal institution, UM, there's also quite 120 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: a numb of people who are part of the military 121 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: who were essentially recruited as child soldiers. US groups test 122 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: anywhere between thirty and six of recruits were forced into 123 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: the military. And when it comes to actual like territorial 124 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: control within these two groups, how does that kind of 125 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: break down? Like is it is it a situation where 126 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: you've got like regime controlled territory and not or is 127 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: it just kind of much more muddled and mixed. So 128 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: it's very complicated. Are Somar has essentially been in a 129 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: civil war for sixty almost seven years now, UM between 130 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: the largely Bama ethnic majority group controlled military and a 131 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: number of UM political organizations that often have armed wings 132 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: in minority areas or minority majority areas which are tend 133 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: to be around the borders of the country. So there 134 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: are currently whether called being called free zone, which is 135 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: areas being controlled by ethnic armed organizations. These are in 136 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: allyship with the National Unity government, but they're not under 137 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: the control of the National Unity governments UM and the 138 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: majority of ethnic armed organizations in your mind, there's dozens 139 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:21,839 Speaker 1: have essentially declared that they will protect protesters regardless of UM, 140 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: you know, their political affiliation. It's more about millions as 141 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: opposed to aligning them. It's very smart, well together everything. 142 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: So don't don't they didn't talk a little bit about UH. 143 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: You've you've mentioned it's pseudo democracy and it's been a 144 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: relatively new UH institution there and so can we talk 145 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: a little bit about UM that power struggle, that power 146 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: share that led us to this, because I think we 147 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: also need to talk about on San Succi of course, 148 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: and and um, just it's complicated. It's a complicated situation 149 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: you've got going on away, Yeah, because I I can. 150 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm nothing. I don't have a particularly deep 151 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: base of knowledge here. But I remember hearing earlier a 152 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: lot of allegations that she was um kind of being 153 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: used as a puppet by the military for a lot 154 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: of the stuff that was happening with the Rohinga. And 155 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: so that's very unclear as we are over here trying 156 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: to unpack everything that's happening there, because of course she 157 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: was sold to us as a democratic leader that we 158 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: should get behind, an inspiration, and then very quickly it 159 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: turned out that this huge humanitarian crisis was happening under 160 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 1: her watch. Anyway, you're the expert, Oh, I think what 161 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: happened without sant Sugi and the sort of like very 162 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: divided view of her because she's still seeing as this 163 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: for a lot of people and are not seeing as this, 164 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: you know, perfect icon, uh and faultless leader in myrmar 165 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: whereas in the West, because she was sold as this 166 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: perfect icon, right like any mistake or like genuine awful 167 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: things she did, and she did awful things. Um was 168 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: seeing that's like, oh were like she we were lied to, 169 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: we were tricked where you know, she's a complicated person 170 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: with imperfect politics. Um, She's always been extremely Buddhist, quite nationalist. 171 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: It makes sense, you know that, considering her father fought 172 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: against colonialism. Right. Colonially breeds a lot of nationalism into people. Uh. 173 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: And so she's always been someone who has been quite 174 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: open about the fact that she thinks Memar is first 175 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: and foremost a Buddhist Bama nation where everyone else is 176 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: kind of guests who should have behave appropriately, um and so. 177 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: And the country is you know, quite majority with us 178 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: and Mama. So you know, I think what has been 179 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: happening with the sort of transition into democracy from m 180 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: R is we had colonialism and then that really created 181 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: the country as we know it today. You know that 182 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: it drew the orders of the country and brought together 183 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: a bunch of various kingdoms and like essentially hill tribes 184 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: and people who had various forms of government and put 185 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: them all and smashed them into one nation of people 186 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: never existed as a political entity. Uh. Together before and 187 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: basically immediately after independence, people began declaring internal independence from 188 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: the new country that had been formed UM and then 189 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 1: through a series of coups and sort of military takeovers, 190 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: the country essentially became a totalitarian state, really second only 191 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: to North Korea for decades, and then in two thousand 192 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: and ten the country began to transition into democratic into 193 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: more of a democratic form. So we had elections where 194 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: everyone was allowed to run, essentially who wasn't in jail, 195 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: and there were thousands of people in jail as political prisoners, 196 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: but you know, if you weren't in jail, you were 197 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: allowed to run. And many people boycotted it because the 198 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 1: constitution wasn't great guaranteed the military twenty five seats to 199 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: military officials, and then also allowed military parties and military 200 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: affiliated parties to run. And so in two thousand and 201 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: ten we began to have a more democratic UM country 202 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: and government, but it was still essentially run by the military, 203 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: but with reform minded generals, and so we began to 204 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: see more press freedom. We saw censorship and or official censorship, 205 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: prepublication censorship, and we saw the release of quite a 206 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: number of political prisoners. We saw liberalization of the economy 207 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: and the allowance of essentially the statement of police to 208 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: end UH and allow other sorts of businesses to begin 209 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: to establish themselves. And then in two thousand fifteen, UM, 210 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: all of these parties that had boycotted the twenty ten 211 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 1: election decided, you know, the constitution isn't perfect. There's a 212 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: lot we need to change, but we can't do that 213 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: completely from the outside, so we're going to run UH. 214 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: And after that election, we ended up with a government 215 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: where the military control basically every gun in the country. 216 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: They controlled the armed forces, the police, and the border guard, 217 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: as well as UM a lot of the sort of 218 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: day to day administration UM. So like thank your local 219 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: district office, UM, that would be controlled by the military, 220 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: but the majority of the rest of the government was 221 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: controlled by elected civilians. In this case it ended up 222 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: being outside the Juice party. And so yeah, there was 223 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: this very uneasy power sharing UM and one of the 224 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: rain of crisis have and I think the people of 225 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: them really felt that they were being unfairly blamed for 226 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: something that the military did and it cost us like 227 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: intense defensiveness that didn't allow them to have the conversation 228 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: of Okay, well, why are we not fighting for the branch. 229 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: You know, why are we okay with this group being victimized? 230 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: You know, what does it mean that some group can 231 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: be victimized in the country? What does this mean on 232 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: a more systematic institutional level beyond the sort of like 233 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: basic decency of like no one deserves to be subject 234 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: to genocide. Um. But yeah, I think that's in a 235 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: nutshell kind of what was happening here. Yeah, that sounds 236 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: like there's like a rapid expansion in a short period 237 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: of time for you guys culturally, economically and everything. When 238 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: when things started to shift, and it feels like this 239 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: this crux and time probably feels very different, approaching this 240 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: protest movement, approaching organizing, um have you. Yeah, I would 241 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: just love to have a comparison between this time and 242 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: in the past when there has been a lot of 243 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: large organized movements against the military. Yeah. So there's been 244 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: a few mass uprisings, there's this is also the third 245 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: coup from MR and No. I think what has made 246 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: this time really different is there's internal factors. So the 247 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: main one would be that now people are fighting to 248 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: keep something where in and so after the first coup 249 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: you essentially went from Uh, you know, British colonial masters 250 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: to like a very chaotic quasi military government into you know, 251 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: fairly still a military government. But it wasn't that bad 252 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: in the sixties, and so it wasn't that jarring of 253 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: a transition. But by the time eight Um elections happened 254 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: and the uprising happened, people had been under dictatorship for decades, right, 255 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: and so it's much more difficult for people to imagine 256 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: something that they were trying to build, as opposed to 257 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: just saying we don't like what's currently happening, um and 258 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: what the protest movement now, what we're really seeing is 259 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: people saying, you know, what we had was imperfect, but 260 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: we need to get back there so we can go 261 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: somewhere and better. And I think that's the really big 262 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: difference and the key difference we're seeing, uh internally and 263 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: then externally, I think, you know, the international response has 264 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: not been ideal, but it's the community. International community has 265 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: also learned from past mistakes. Uh. They haven't imposed a 266 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: sort of blanket sanctions that we saw in the past 267 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: that really didn't harm the military. Right. There's right now 268 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: quite a lot of focus on targeting specific organizations and 269 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: individuals UM. And you know, if we could see more 270 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: unity on that, we could see countries stop selling our 271 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: to m R H. If we could see sort of 272 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: the release of MR State and UH assets to the 273 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: new civilian government. You know, these are all that could 274 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: really make a difference in the long run of this movement. Yeah, 275 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: you had mentioned that to me separately and wanted to 276 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: to bring that up. So this feels like a great time, 277 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: you know, specifically in terms of the the U S 278 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: sanctions UM. Yeah. So you know, in the very first 279 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: few days of the coup, UM, the US I think 280 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: Department of Treasury I guess essentially froze UM all MIMIR 281 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: assets stuff we're in in the US control. And that's 282 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: amounts about a billion dollars UM because even though there 283 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: wasn't sort of a set policy yet from the Biden administration, UM, 284 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, they want to make sure that essentially trying 285 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: to withdraw a million dollars a billion dollars UH. So 286 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: now that is frozen. UM. Now that we do have 287 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: a civilian government made up of elected officials who have 288 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: a mandate from the people, who have been able to 289 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: get agreements UH and cooperation from ethnic armed organizations, they're 290 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: going to start needing money. You know, civil servants have 291 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: been uh striking for almost three months. These are not 292 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: people who are well paid. Most of them live in 293 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: government housing um and many of them have either been 294 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: terminated from their jobs or have been forced out of 295 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: their housing. And so what the Unity government is now 296 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: trying to uh pay all of these civil servants. They're 297 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: trying to ensure that there aren't food shortages and are 298 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: there people are already starting to suffer from that, and 299 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: really to make sure that people can continue to oppose 300 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: the military without essentially starving themselves, without feeling like they 301 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: have the choice to die or comply. Oh yeah, And 302 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: that's one of these one of the main problems we 303 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: get to when it comes to when the US does 304 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: take action about human rights abuses. Often our go to 305 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: is some form of sanctions, and they generally just wind 306 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: up hurting the people who live in that country rather 307 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: than the people who are committing whatever human rights abuse 308 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: inspired the the action. And I think it's good to 309 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: like freeze assets that that makes sense, and I've heard 310 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: suggestions of like, you know, releasing them to the the 311 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: I think we would consider the legitimate government Um, but 312 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: I don't know, like what what else can be done, 313 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: like because it it seems and maybe I have an 314 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: accurate view of this because of my distance, but it 315 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: seems like the deck is stacked pretty heavily in the 316 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:49,239 Speaker 1: military's favor at the moment um, and I don't like, 317 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: what is it? What is it you think would need 318 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: to happen in order to change the situation in a 319 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: positive way. Yeah, so I think you're right in that 320 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 1: the deck is heavily stacked in the military's favor. But 321 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: they got the guns. Yeah, the guns, well they have 322 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: like bombed. Uh. And I actually have a whole other 323 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: question about the military. It's we'll get to but they 324 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: have all a whole separate ecosystem almost over there like 325 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: their own. But we'll we'll, we'll get to that. But yeah, 326 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: you know, I think a sign of hope, uh, and 327 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: a place to look if you want some optimism is 328 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: just the fact that despite them having you know, fighter 329 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: jets and guns and just so much information about people, um, 330 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: because you know, as an authoritarian country or just collects 331 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: lots and lots of data about other people who live there, Um, 332 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: they've not been able to win. You know, they haven't. 333 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: They can't get the banks to open, they can't get 334 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: doctors to go back to work. They recently, like yesterday, 335 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: called in the parents of civil servants to get them 336 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: to pressure their children. Like odd like got called to 337 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: the principles on the parents of the protesters, you know, 338 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 1: like they are really struggling. Um as they're you know, 339 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: killing people and terrorizing people, like people are really refusing 340 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: to be capt essentially. Um, sorry, I've forgotten the question. 341 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: Now that's that's how it goes here. Yeah, I'm just 342 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: kind of wondering. Yeah, I think the question we're trying 343 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: to answer is like what do you think what how 344 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: how could you see things ending in a positive direction? 345 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: Like what would have to happen? I guess part of 346 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: why I'm asking that questions, I'm trying to wonder what 347 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: the international community can do outside of you know, freezing 348 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: arms sales to the military would be one one thing, 349 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: although I don't know how likely that is given the 350 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: geopolitical situation. Um and kind of you know, releasing that 351 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: money to the legitimate government is another option, But like, 352 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: is there is there anything else? What do you think 353 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: would need to happen for things to resolve? In a 354 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: more positive direction, like what's it gonna take. UM if 355 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: that's a I that may be a question without a 356 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: clear answer at the moment. Yeah, UM, So I think 357 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: there's a few things that can be done by various actors. UM. 358 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: I think if we're talking about the U S side, UM, 359 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 1: you know, as we're saying earlier, FUNDS UM impression other 360 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: countries allied nations to recognize the National Unity Government as 361 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: the legimate legitimate of government MEMOIR and to to treat 362 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: them as such. Right. So, if ASSIE and the Association 363 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: of Southeast Asian Nations is going to have a meeting 364 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: about memoir, like they should be invited. They should be 365 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:44,719 Speaker 1: the first invite. UM. If you know, countries like Singapore 366 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: and Japan and South Korea which are heavily invested in MIMIR, 367 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: there's some of the biggest investors in MIMIR are going 368 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: to continue to UM, you know, invest money, whether that's 369 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: in development or in you know, sort of private business. 370 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: They need to ensure that they're working with the civilian 371 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: government and not the military. UM. And these are things 372 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: that kind of can happen from the US end, which 373 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: is obviously a bit more difficult in that This is 374 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: one of the very few struggles in the world where 375 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: U s imperialism is not implicated really in any way. Uh. 376 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: And you know, the mirmor military does not care what 377 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: the West thinks of it. Uh, it does not care 378 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: about the West is money. They you know, survived for 379 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: decades and decades without it. Um. And Yeah, like the 380 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: sanctions can often really harm uh, sort of people who 381 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: like normal everyday people. I think something that the US 382 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: has done quite well in this case is to make 383 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: it very clear that no military interferention is coming. I 384 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: know that's something that many people on the ground have 385 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: been hoping for because they see things like, uh, what's 386 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: been happening in you know, Middle Eastern countries and say 387 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: like possible there? Why isn't possible here? Um, And the 388 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: US being very clear and that the language where they 389 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: talk about it ums, and like sanctioning very specific industry, 390 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: so mining and logging and these sort of like you know, 391 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: industries that are already extremely exploitative to the people who 392 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: work in it, and then pretty much only like mess 393 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: up the earth and benefit those are the very top 394 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,959 Speaker 1: so like jade um. Yeah. And then I think on 395 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: the sort of broader international level. Um, yeah, just like 396 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: refusing to engage with the military besides trying to get 397 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: them to hand over power, as opposed to what Ascien did, 398 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: which was really just like a weird welcome party h 399 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: to the military leader where they told him like everyone 400 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: needs to stop the violence, uh and really doing this 401 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: like there wishy washy sort of language which was then 402 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: used by the military in MR and sort of these 403 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: now like military run propaganda outlets. That's like, you know, 404 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: the world has welcomed uh, this new government as a 405 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: stabilizing force in the region. I I know I mentioned 406 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: this in passing a minute ago, but I would like 407 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: to to hear a little bit. Gosh, I've got so 408 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 1: many things I want to hear about. But uh, from 409 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: what I understand, yes, the military is almost separate from 410 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: uh everybody else, the average citizen. You know, they have 411 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: their own schools and own hospitals. Uh you know, banks 412 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: are those things being affected by the strike. And I'm 413 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: also just I'm just curious about it because I guess 414 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: that has to play a huge part in how the 415 00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: military can be so desensitized to or ers of killing citizens, 416 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: I mean, children, babies. There's just we don't need to 417 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: go into all the horrifying specifics, but this is a 418 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: horrifying story that's happening right now. Um, and I'm just 419 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: trying to wrap my mind around it all, you know. Yeah, 420 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: it's been very difficult to get into the psychology of 421 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 1: people who are in the security forces, where that is 422 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: military or police. Um, we're definitely seeing a lot more 423 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 1: police affections. And I think it's what you were saying of. 424 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: You know, most police officers are not sort of born 425 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: and raised into this very separate internal society, right. These 426 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 1: are usually just like people who for whom this is 427 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: like one of the few decent paying jobs with the 428 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: potential force pension in the future. And so you have 429 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: a lot of those people kind of running away into India, 430 00:27:54,520 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: into the free zones, into Thailand and such. Um. But yeah, 431 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: it's been very, very difficult to understand the mindsets of 432 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: the soldiers and and really what they're being told. Um. 433 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: So there was a lot of rumors in MR and 434 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: based on the testimony of recently defected soldiers, it seems 435 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: very likely that the internet the like mobile data internet 436 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: cuts were more targeted towards keeping soldiers from knowing what 437 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: was happening from the civilian organizing themselves. I mean, you know, 438 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 1: they obviously also don't want the civilian population organizing themselves. 439 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: But you know the fact that soldiers are telling us 440 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: they're not allowed to read non military papers, they're not 441 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: allowed to watch news, it's the military channels. They can't 442 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: listen to other types of radio um And you know, 443 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: many of them were taken when they were twelve thirteen. 444 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: They were raised in an environment where like brutality meant 445 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: not only did you survive and avoid violence yourself, but 446 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: you could be you know, greatly rewarded. And you know, 447 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:06,479 Speaker 1: you're in this like extremely homo social environment where not 448 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: only are you being taught to be brutal, you're being 449 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: told that that is how you're protecting the country and 450 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: defending Buddhism and defending this idea of of what it 451 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: means to be in my mr. And you know, I 452 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: think in part why we're seeing the sort of violence 453 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: right now is because so many of the soldiers feel betrayed. 454 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: You know, they've been at war for decades, they've been 455 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: out in the force getting malaria, and now you have 456 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: all these ungrateful civilians who like don't understand their struggles. 457 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: Who are forcing them to essentially, like you know, work 458 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: all day every day, often with very little food. We 459 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,479 Speaker 1: see soldiers stealing food all the time. We see them 460 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,959 Speaker 1: sealing snacks like they're hungry. They're very poorly paid at 461 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: the sort of infantry level, um, and they're overworked, and 462 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: like that's part of the goal, Like they're trying to 463 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: make these usually young boys like much more aggressive than 464 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: they would otherwise be and see the people as their 465 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: well together everything. Don't. You can talk a lot about, um, 466 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: you know, a civil disobedience, the protest movement, and I'm 467 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: I'm curious what the mood on the ground is. Like 468 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: I guess this kind of goes along with Robert's kind 469 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: of questioning do people Do people feel galvanized by the 470 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: fact that you have been doing this protest movement such 471 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: as sustained fashion. I mean, I find it very inspiring. 472 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: I mean it sounds overwhelming in like an uphill battle. 473 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: But you know, a general strike is something that has 474 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: talked about a lot and very rarely executed, um, and 475 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: there has to be some sort of power in that. 476 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: So I am curious what the mood is, but but 477 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: also can can Firstly, people are being slaughtered, so you 478 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: know it's a lot yeah, um, I mean there's there's 479 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: a lot of terror. Uh that's on the ground, um, 480 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: obviously engineered to be so. Like there have been cases 481 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: where the police will come and try to arrest a 482 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: politician or you know, a member of a political party 483 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: and he won't be home because you know he's understands 484 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: the situation and isn't hiding, and that they will take 485 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: his children. Like the youngest person who has been arrested 486 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: is too and they were arrested because they couldn't find 487 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: their father. Um. And so there is a lot of 488 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: that happening. But at the same time, there's also justice, 489 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: like really defiant joy that's been very intentionally cultivated. You know, 490 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: like you go you look at protests and like all 491 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: the protests are themed, right, like there are people trying 492 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: to have fun, trying to be creative. Um. There was 493 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: a condom protest where they put love condoms and pictures 494 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: of people who shouldn't have been born in the that's 495 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: really good. That's and they started using sound grenades in 496 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,959 Speaker 1: the cities. Uh, you know, after the kind of noise 497 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: would end, people yell at Happy New year. Um, we're 498 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: using water cannons. People started playing Burmese New Year's music 499 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: because our New Year's as a water festival, and people 500 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: would just start dancing in the water. Um, and so 501 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: people wi fall over because you know it's a water cannon. 502 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: But you know, just people really trying to make sure 503 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: that there's joy to be had um and that this 504 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: isn't sort of something like awful and miserable that we 505 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: all have to kind of just like hunker down and 506 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: get the room something. Joy is incredibly important when you're 507 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: trying to get people to endure violence for an extended 508 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: period of time. That that makes total sense. We're also 509 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: seeing a lot of sort of communities support uh that 510 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: works propping up Like essentially people are doing anarchy, although 511 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: they're fairly calling it that. Um. So like you go, 512 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: if you go to markets, there's quite a number of 513 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: stalls now that's say uh, take if you need it, 514 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: give if you like, don't, and so like it's there, 515 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: like it's really beautiful. No one at the stalls, like 516 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: you can just go and take all the food if 517 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: you wanted to. But you see just like a pile 518 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: of cash and then some people just you know they 519 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: can't pay, they can't afford it. Um. You know people 520 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: are like everyone is involved. There's like marketing agencies that 521 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: are paying for lawyers, fees for journalists. UM. There are 522 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: bankers who are secretly funding um, you know, transportation for protesters. 523 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: Like it's really this huge cross section of me and 524 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: our society. And you know it's one of the It's 525 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: one of those struggles where like the military like legitimately 526 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: has like no popular base, right, Like it's not like 527 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: a Thailand situation where there are legitimately people who are 528 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,439 Speaker 1: on both sides. Uh, and you know are in sort 529 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: of contention with one another. Yeah. Um, I had something 530 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: else I wanted to ask, and now it's out of 531 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: my head. I'm curious. Do you see within kind of 532 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: the tactics used by the protest movement, what do you 533 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: see as like the main um influences UM from from 534 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: overseas on kind of how people have have organized and 535 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: carried things out. Yeah, so you see a lot of 536 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: influences from UM, Hong Kong and Thailand. Uh. You know 537 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: Mars now officially part of the MILTI Alliance. Uh. We 538 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,399 Speaker 1: have a Twitter icon um that combines all all three 539 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: of these countries, um. And you know a lot of 540 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: these sort of protest safety tactics uh and digital security 541 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: especially tactics were really brought wholesale from Thailand and Hong Kong, 542 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: to the point where activists in those countries were translating 543 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: their resources into Burmese and disseminating them through their their networks. 544 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:12,720 Speaker 1: In Yama. Um, you saw influences from the Black Lives 545 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: Matter movement. Um, although I would say that it was 546 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: a very sort of shallow sort of engagement with Black 547 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: Lives Matter. It was very confusing. But yeah, sort like 548 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: a lot of international meaning of memes. Uh. Yeah, it's 549 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: it's mostly um, the conversations mostly happening with other Asian 550 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: countries are facing authority characterism. Mhm, I'm curious. Um. But 551 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: the end goal would be, um, you know, for the resistance, 552 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 1: would this be too reinstidate long song succi or you know, 553 00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: is that the goal here? So the goal has been 554 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 1: to um yeah uh. If you sort of were listening 555 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: to protest chance and looking at science in the earlier 556 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,439 Speaker 1: days of the protests, it was almost entirely focused on 557 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:18,919 Speaker 1: the free outce sugi uh and getting the getting democracy back, 558 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: by which they mean like just you know, like control 559 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: z the coup, just let the government form and like 560 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,240 Speaker 1: we'll just kind of forget about everything. Um. But now 561 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: you know they the civilian government has abolished the Mazinate constitution. Yeah, 562 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 1: so they formed committees to uh create a new constitution 563 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: in consultation with stakeholders from across there's of society. Um. 564 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 1: For some reason, the new government has a prime Minister, 565 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: a president, and a state counselor. It's very confusing. I 566 00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: don't understand why has made an early draft of the 567 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: United States Constitution. I do believe had as having three presidents. 568 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 1: So there's that. Yeah, we have two vice presidents. Um. 569 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's but has been appoint reappointed as state counselor. 570 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: So you know, there is a there's quite a number 571 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: of people who would like to continue to see her 572 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: in that position. Um. And I think it's also really 573 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: important to remember, even as especially for those of us 574 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: who are very critical of the level of democracy that 575 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: is in Mirmar as well as and their party h 576 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: that they did win the election by huge like they 577 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 1: wont of the vote. She's extremely popular, right, Like I 578 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: can be as critical of her as I want, but 579 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: she is the legitimate leader of that the people chose 580 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 1: what is that? What is she? Is she still in 581 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,800 Speaker 1: house arrest or are she? And like, what are the charges? 582 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: What is the case against her that they're trying to make. 583 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: So she's still in their house arrests as far as 584 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: I know, Um, her trial is ongoing, but it has 585 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: been postponed because she also doesn't have internet connection. Uh, 586 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: we're still dealing with COVID. So that was going to 587 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 1: be my next question. So she's theoretically on their house arrests. 588 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: Her lawyers have been able who have been able to 589 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: see her occasionally say that she looks to be in 590 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: good help. Um, they're not allowed to really talk about 591 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: anything that isn't the many cases there against her, So 592 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 1: there's a number of charges that have been levied against her, 593 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:45,919 Speaker 1: I think currently. Therefore, she was first arrested because she 594 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: had illegally imported walkie talkies into the country. Okay, Um, 595 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: you know it was done because supposedly there was election fraud, 596 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,359 Speaker 1: but they got her for Yeah, you do all your 597 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:01,760 Speaker 1: election fraud via walkie talkie. Yeah, so walkie talkies, in questions, 598 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: were in use by her security detail, which are appointed 599 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:11,280 Speaker 1: by the military. Okay, that's an interesting charge. The second 600 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: charge she was levied with was violating COVID restrictions by 601 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: essentially creating situations in which people would gather, which is 602 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: kind of true, like anytime she doesn't like a campaign, No, 603 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: it's just like if she goes outside, people gather like 604 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 1: they people love um. But yeah, like she had like 605 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: you know, she would like go to her home district 606 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: and be like I'm running again, and like thousands of 607 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,399 Speaker 1: people would just which like you know, she shouldn't have done, 608 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,439 Speaker 1: but you know everyone's also doing it. Like you could 609 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: arrest everyone for that. I mean around the world, politicians 610 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 1: are going out and people are gathering. So okay, but anyway, Yeah, 611 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,839 Speaker 1: the third charge is the most serious charge she has 612 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:07,800 Speaker 1: been charged under the Official Secrets Act UM, and she's 613 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: essentially being accused of having information that could be helpful 614 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: to enemies of m R. Which as the head of 615 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: government one, Yeah, it's kind of hard to be president 616 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:27,280 Speaker 1: without getting some of that. Yeah, actually she's the highest 617 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 1: official in the government. Um. And then the fourth charge 618 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: I think is another COVID related charge. So very clearly 619 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: it starts with the walkie talkie and then they're just 620 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,360 Speaker 1: like searching for other reasons to keep her. You go 621 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,880 Speaker 1: into the election fraud yet, like everyone's wondering when that 622 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: will happen. So that was the justification for the coup. Yeah, 623 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: we're still waiting for proof on our election fraud too. Yeah, 624 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: it was like what court cases? Yeah, um and you 625 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 1: mentioned COVID, uh, which is of course still a thing. 626 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,840 Speaker 1: And I know very little. I know nothing. I know 627 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: nothing about the COVID situation over there, and oh what 628 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: is it? Yeah, so Mirmar was doing okay, uh, not 629 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: economically like COVID devastated the country. The government weren't willing 630 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: to have very harsh lockdowns, or they weren't willing to 631 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: enforce their lockdown on paper, Miamar had one of the 632 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: strictest lockdowns in the world. But if you just kind 633 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: of didn't care, you could just do whatever you want, 634 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: Like people were clubbing. Uh and you know, like no, 635 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,360 Speaker 1: like many people didn't care. But for the most part, 636 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 1: we were testing about really high, like twenty tests were 637 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: being done every day. Uh. And the positivity rate was 638 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,839 Speaker 1: well under five percent for a good chunk of that time. Uh. 639 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: And we were getting vaccines, you know, we had Um, 640 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: I think the astros encovacs scene, like just a decent 641 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: amount of promise from India. Uh. And on paper, we're 642 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: currently one of the most vaccinated countries by percentage in 643 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: Southeast Asia over a million people. Southeast Asia is a 644 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: really poorly so it's not a good comparison, um, but 645 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 1: supposedly over a million people that been vaccinated. It's unclear 646 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: who those people are since no one's going to like 647 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: doctors aren't working at government facilities. Uh. And you know, 648 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 1: it's hard to imagine like random civilians just rolling up 649 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 1: to a military hospital being like, you know, I want 650 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,799 Speaker 1: a vaccine, and I bet it's hard to trust that data. Yeah, 651 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: it's it's very difficult to trust the data. And you know, 652 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,360 Speaker 1: testing is essentially non existent now there's about a thousand 653 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 1: uh tests being done every day. Uh and the majority 654 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,239 Speaker 1: of those are people trying to leave the country due 655 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: to airline requirements and whatever, and a pretty high percentage 656 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: of those people are testing positive. These are people who 657 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,960 Speaker 1: they're usually foreigners, so they're not going out to protest 658 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: because like they would get extra Yeah, it would just 659 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 1: be awful for them to be protesting, Like it's illegal. Um, 660 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:13,800 Speaker 1: I mean I guess it's all illegal, but you know, 661 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,440 Speaker 1: it's like if you're hyper visible, maybe don't want to 662 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,680 Speaker 1: do it legal. Um, And they're usually like wealthy enough 663 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,720 Speaker 1: to be able to fly out during this time because 664 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,400 Speaker 1: flights are really expensive right now. So like in the 665 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,439 Speaker 1: population of people who are probably just sitting at home, 666 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: uh and like don't have to go in anywhere to 667 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,040 Speaker 1: work anyway, the fact that they're testing positive, I think 668 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 1: means that it's quite likely the pandemic is really just raging. 669 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: But you know, we don't have data, we don't know, 670 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: and you've got a lot of things going on to 671 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: keep track of. I mean, yeah, well, and also here 672 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,320 Speaker 1: black Lives Matter, that's a good reason for people to 673 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,399 Speaker 1: come outside and to protest, you know, and you guys 674 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:04,160 Speaker 1: have well I think in the US situation like hospital 675 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 1: still existed, you know, like I mean, there was a 676 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,880 Speaker 1: lot of concern about Black Lives Matter, like potentially sparking 677 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 1: like being super sweather of it, right, which they weren't hospital, Yeah, 678 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,400 Speaker 1: they weren't. But you know, like even if they became 679 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 1: that it might have been handlable. Whereas here, like the 680 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: health infrastructure has gone essentially like people who have like 681 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 1: you know, fairly routine things like diabetes are really struggling 682 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 1: right now. UM, I'm just kind of curious as somebody 683 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,399 Speaker 1: who's paying such close attention to this and and doing 684 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: all the reporting if there's if they're outlets that, um 685 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: you think are particularly good about this or particularly bad. 686 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: You know, there's especially in cases like this, Uh, perspectives 687 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,799 Speaker 1: can seep into reporting. And I didn't know if there 688 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,320 Speaker 1: was any anything on that. Yeah, like what are the 689 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: best outlets to follow? Yeah, so if anyone has any 690 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,319 Speaker 1: extra money they want up to throw at this. Um 691 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,720 Speaker 1: m R now and Frontier MR are really great local 692 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,799 Speaker 1: news organizations. They published in both Burmese and English. Uh 693 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,600 Speaker 1: you know, I mean the news industries has no money. Uh, 694 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,200 Speaker 1: and like right now, not only are they dealing with 695 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 1: reporting under these very strenuous circumstances, many of them are 696 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:25,440 Speaker 1: trying to flee or like hide out. Um. And also 697 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:33,359 Speaker 1: the police keep smashing our equipment so new laptop. Um. Yeah, 698 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: so you are now in Frontier M are really great 699 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: award win organizations locally run um multi lingual. Um. Yeah, 700 00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,600 Speaker 1: I mean I think a lot of organizations are doing 701 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 1: a pretty decent job, especially if they've been operating in 702 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 1: Asia or in country for a long time. Um, Like 703 00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:58,040 Speaker 1: I wrote an article kind of blasting CNN for their 704 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 1: little parachute journalism trip, but CNN Asia has actually done 705 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 1: a really good job covering you know. Yeah, it really depends. 706 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,000 Speaker 1: And then I guess you know, we've talked about things 707 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:16,719 Speaker 1: the US could theoretically do the example they could set, 708 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:21,880 Speaker 1: but as individuals, do you have any organizations, um, that 709 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,240 Speaker 1: we could do not know of that we could donate 710 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:29,319 Speaker 1: to that would go you know, directly to the right places. Yeah. 711 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,640 Speaker 1: So there's a number of essentially go fund mes, um 712 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,520 Speaker 1: pressure go fund me to release the funds. Uh. I 713 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,400 Speaker 1: mean they're trying to do their due diligence. It's like okay, 714 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 1: or like you know, just hundreds of millions, like they 715 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,880 Speaker 1: were not meant to fundraise for governments. Um, but you know, 716 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: but you know, in these unprecedented times, go fund me 717 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,680 Speaker 1: to like move a little faster in their due diligence work. 718 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,719 Speaker 1: You can donate to those, Um, we'll definitely linked to 719 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,800 Speaker 1: to all of those resources so that people can do 720 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,840 Speaker 1: something here. Uh. And man, thank you so much a 721 00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:13,560 Speaker 1: coming here. This was really informative and terrifying, but also inspiring. 722 00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,800 Speaker 1: I'm um, definitely gonna be following this really closely and 723 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: if you ever want to come back, please just let 724 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 1: us know. Yeah no, thank you for covering the story 725 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,360 Speaker 1: and let our listeners know where they can find you online. 726 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 1: I'm mostly just on Twitter since every onee I'm not 727 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,640 Speaker 1: reading in that online the person, but find me at 728 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,480 Speaker 1: the underscore aimant that so just the underscore in my 729 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:45,359 Speaker 1: full name. We'll definitely have you linked as well. Um yeah, 730 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:55,600 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you again and day safe, everything everything again. 731 00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: I tried, Worst Year Ever is a production of I 732 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit 733 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 734 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:09,200 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.