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Speaker 5: Hey Daniel, would you risk your life for science?

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Speaker 1: It might depend on the science we're talking about.

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Speaker 5: Would you risk getting eaten if you got to meet adiens?

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Speaker 5: For example?

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Speaker 1: Tempting, but I'll pass.

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Speaker 5: How about would you risk spec getification if you got

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Speaker 5: to see the inside of a black hole.

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Speaker 1: You know, I might actually take that trip?

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Speaker 5: Or would you risk deadly radiation to understand the nature

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Speaker 5: of matter?

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Speaker 1: Actually, I've kind of already done that one.

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Speaker 5: Oh, really, does it a large hadron collider generate deadly radiation?

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Speaker 1: It does, But that's not how I've been exposed.

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Speaker 5: Oh how have you been exposed to radiation?

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Speaker 1: Well, flying the Switzerland and back like a thousand times,

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Speaker 1: you get a lot more radiation at high altitude. Really, yep,

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Speaker 1: every transatlantic trip is like a chest X ray.

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Speaker 5: I thought you said you've been been by a radioactive

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Speaker 5: Swiss spider.

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Speaker 1: And I gained that spider's proportional physics, smarts.

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Speaker 5: And chocolate making ability. I am Horhem, a cartoonist and

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Speaker 5: the creator of PhD comics.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I like

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Speaker 1: to think of myself as radioactive.

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Speaker 5: Are you technically radioactive? Are most people radioactive at some level?

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Speaker 5: Like bananas are radioactive?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're probably more radioactive than most people. But

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Los Alamos, New Mexico, where we

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Speaker 1: like to say we all glow in the dark. Really, uh,

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Speaker 1: I did grow up in Los Alamos, but we don't

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Speaker 1: actually like to say that.

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Speaker 5: Well, I do eat a lot of bananas, and I

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Speaker 5: do have a certain glow about me, I like to think,

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Speaker 5: but yeah, Welcome to our podcast. Daniel and Jorge explain

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Speaker 5: the university production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we shine a radioactive glow into all the

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Speaker 1: mysteries of the universe, the big, crazy things that are

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Speaker 1: out there tearing universe apart, the powerful forces that are

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Speaker 1: holding it together, the things far from home, and the

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Speaker 1: things right here in our backyard. All the mysteries of

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Speaker 1: physics revealed and explained to you.

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Speaker 5: That's right, we radiate knowledge and give you an X

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Speaker 5: ray view of all of the amazing secrets that are

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Speaker 5: out there to discover in the universe, and all of

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Speaker 5: the secrets that are yet to be discovered.

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Speaker 1: And all the while you can stay home and safe,

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Speaker 1: tucked into your couch, sipping that mug of tea and

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Speaker 1: learning about the universe.

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Speaker 5: No tinfoil hat needed or leadline hats.

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Speaker 1: That's right. This counts exactly zero as part of your

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Speaker 1: annual dose of radiation, even though you'll be learning all

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 5: That's right. Well, we're technically getting to people through sound waves,

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Speaker 5: not lightweights or radiation.

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Speaker 1: That's right. But actually radiation is sort of any sort

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Speaker 1: of energetic particle or wave. So sound is technically speaking

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Speaker 1: a kind of radiation. So we are irradiating your ears

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Speaker 1: with our voices.

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Speaker 5: What no, you get to say a limit? Can't you like,

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Speaker 5: if I throw a baseball, I'm radiating a baseball.

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Speaker 1: Baseballs are radiation? Yes, absolutely, Now, the technical definition of

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Speaker 1: radiation is sort of weirdly broad. Any kind of light,

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Speaker 1: any kind of particle, any kind of way that transmits

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Speaker 1: energy is radiation. But practically speaking, when we talk about radiation,

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Speaker 1: we mean very high energy particles or higher energy waves

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Speaker 1: that are going to deposit a significant amount of energy.

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Speaker 1: And so a flashlight or this podcast are not typically

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Speaker 1: categorized as radiation, even though technically, according to physicists it is.

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Speaker 5: Well, it's a very loaded word, isn't it. I mean,

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Speaker 5: especially like in the eighties. I feel in the nineties,

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Speaker 5: you know, radiation was such a negative thing, and know

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Speaker 5: what they wanted, radiation and the thing that made you sick.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Radiation can be pretty dangerous. They are basically

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Speaker 1: these little invisible bullets flying through the universe, and they

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Speaker 1: can do real damage. They can fly through your cells,

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Speaker 1: they can bust up your DNA, they can cause you cancer.

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Speaker 1: And so radiation definitely is something to think about and

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Speaker 1: worry about. These things in the world that's not visible

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Speaker 1: to our naked eye yet turns out to be pretty important.

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Speaker 1: So it's a key that tells us that there's a

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Speaker 1: lot going on in the universe that we can't directly see.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so a big question is how do we even

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Speaker 5: discover radiation or even come to believe it exists if

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Speaker 5: it is in fact the invisible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's part of this story of peeling back the

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Speaker 1: nature of reality and figuring out that the universe has

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff going on. But to me, it's

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Speaker 1: always fascinating to figure out how that came to be,

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Speaker 1: how that understanding sort of filtered into human minds, because

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Speaker 1: here we are standing on the shoulders of giants, understanding

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Speaker 1: all these things about the way the world works. But

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Speaker 1: this required a real shift in people's understanding of the

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Speaker 1: nature of the universe. So I'm always super interested in

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Speaker 1: those moments, like what was it that convinced people? What

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Speaker 1: experiments did people do that revealed that, because I hope

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Speaker 1: that will help us understand what experiments in the future

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Speaker 1: might again change the way we think about the universe.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. So usually people assign the discovered to Madame Cirie

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Speaker 5: and her experiments, But there's actually more to the story.

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Speaker 1: Right there is she did not, in fact discover radiation.

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Speaker 1: She won a couple of Nobel prizes. She was quite

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Speaker 1: a genius. She discovered a lot of stuff, but you

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Speaker 1: can't give her credit for discovering radiation. It's a fascinating story.

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Speaker 5: Well you can't even define it. I mean, sure, then

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Speaker 5: nobody discovered her radiation or everyone discovered radiation.

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Speaker 1: That's right. The first little swimming organism that developed an eyeball,

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Speaker 1: I suppose discovered radiation when it used photons to guide

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Speaker 1: itself around the primordial soup on Earth.

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Speaker 5: I suppose, yeah, right, like the first organism to use

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Speaker 5: or detect light.

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Speaker 1: Right, that definitely predates humanity. But I think we should

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Speaker 1: focus on the kind of radiation we're talking about, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, high energy particles or waves that come from

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Speaker 1: like radioactive decay, things that are different from the normal

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Speaker 1: kinds of radiation we used to live our lives. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about a change in how we've understood the universe.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so it's invisible, potentially dangerous, and obviously very scientifically significant.

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Speaker 5: But how was radiation discovered? That's a big question, and

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Speaker 5: that's the question we're exploring today. So to the end

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Speaker 5: of the program, we'll be talking about how was radiation discovered? So,

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Speaker 5: as usually, we were wondering how many people out there

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Speaker 5: knew how radiation was discovered?

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Speaker 1: So thank you to everybody who volunteered their answers to

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Speaker 1: these tricky physics questions without referring to any reference materials,

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Speaker 1: Google or bing or ask Jeeves. And if you would

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Speaker 1: like to participate in future Baseless Speculations for the podcast,

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Speaker 1: please write to us to questions at Daniel and Jorge

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 5: Maybe that should be the name of that website, Daniel

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Speaker 5: Baseless Speculation dot com. You might get a lot of hits.

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. We just pointed to our book every single time.

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Speaker 1: We have no idea dot com is the answer to

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Speaker 1: all these questions.

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Speaker 5: Oh interesting, interesting marketing technique. Lure people in with a

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Speaker 5: juicy website and then sell them a book.

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. I think they call that clickbait.

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Speaker 5: So think about it for a second. If someone approached

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Speaker 5: you and asks you if you knew how radiation was discovered.

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Speaker 5: What would you say here? What people had to say?

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Speaker 5: I have no idea, but I think it has something

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Speaker 5: to do with Marie Currey playing around with some kind

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Speaker 5: of radioactive substance and like X raying her hand or

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Speaker 5: something like that.

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Speaker 6: Radiation was discovered by Madame Curie.

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Speaker 1: I just know that was discovered by Marie Currey.

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Speaker 7: I believe radiation was discovered by Marie Cury. I don't

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Speaker 7: know how she did it. She was probably experimenting with

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Speaker 7: what became known as radium and saw it glowing.

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Speaker 6: I think radiation was discovered in the eighteen hundreds when

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Speaker 6: some radioactive material uranium was glowing in the dark or

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Speaker 6: was unusually hot.

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Speaker 5: All right, it looks like Marie curriy and the Curris

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Speaker 5: have a pretty good policies because most people went to

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Speaker 5: them as the discoverers of radiation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she is definitely ensconced in popular colu cure as

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Speaker 1: somebody deeply associated with radiation. And you know, she actually

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Speaker 1: did have a good publicist late in her career. She

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Speaker 1: did a whole tour of the United States giving talks

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Speaker 1: all about radiation stuff. So she became quite famous and

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Speaker 1: associated with radiation. So that has lasted up till the

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Speaker 1: present day, almost one hundred years later.

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Speaker 5: Right, Well, we don't want to take away anything that

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Speaker 5: she did or the decrease did. It's really more about definition.

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Speaker 5: I think I think she discovered a particular type of

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Speaker 5: radiation or I guess we'll get into that. But generally speaking,

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Speaker 5: it kind of seems like radiation maybe is a broader

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Speaker 5: concept than most people assume it is.

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Speaker 1: There's definitely that, and she made important contributions and discovered

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Speaker 1: particular kinds of radioactive elopments. We'll dig into that. But

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Speaker 1: you're right, radiation is sort of a broader set of things.

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Speaker 1: Radiation is not just uranium decays and shoots out deadly particles.

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Speaker 1: There's a broader set of things. We consider radiation not

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Speaker 1: just ordinary light. But it starts, for example, with X rays.

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Speaker 1: Like X rays are just hot energy photons, but we

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Speaker 1: consider them radiation.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. I guess you were saying earlier that any light

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Speaker 5: is considered radiation. Even sound is considered radiation. Yeah, even

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Speaker 5: like heat, I guess heat is radiation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, you radiate heat. You go run a lap

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Speaker 1: and you get really hot, you are radiating heat out

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Speaker 1: into the universe, and everything in the universe that has

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Speaker 1: a temperature gives off heat, and so everything in the

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Speaker 1: universe is radiating constantly. Radiation is everywhere. But that's sort

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Speaker 1: of again the sort of technical physical term for it.

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Speaker 1: When we talk about radiation, we think about sort of

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Speaker 1: damaging radiation, radiation that's long been invisible to us and

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Speaker 1: reveals something different about how the world works. And it

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Speaker 1: was really crucial in understanding things like the nature of

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Speaker 1: the atom and the deep structure of matter.

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Speaker 5: Right, Well, we knew about light for a long time.

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Speaker 5: I mean it's kind of in the Bible, Daniel, let

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Speaker 5: there be Light. It was like the first thing.

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Speaker 1: Is that a reference book? I wasn't familiar with that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: got it all. I think there's some rata for that one.

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Speaker 5: It's probably the most impact factor of all publications in

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Speaker 5: the history of man.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I submitted something, but it got rejected by the referees.

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Speaker 5: So, I mean, of course we've known about light for

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Speaker 5: a long time. So I guess when do you draw

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Speaker 5: the line as us having discovered radiation, Like, is it

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Speaker 5: X rays? Is that the first kind of you know,

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Speaker 5: powerful kind of radiation invisible that we've discovered.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the discovery of X rays really marked

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Speaker 1: the turning point. It's the time we discover that there

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Speaker 1: are ways to transmit energy or other kinds of light

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Speaker 1: that are different from the kind of visible light we

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Speaker 1: were familiar with. And this specifically was the kind of

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Speaker 1: light that we saw could sort of pass through walls

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Speaker 1: and pass through barriers, and so it really was doing

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Speaker 1: something different from the kind of visible light we were

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Speaker 1: familiar with. And that's exactly how it was discovered.

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Speaker 5: I see, like, if you shine a flashlight, it gets

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Speaker 5: blocked by the wall, but if you shine an X

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Speaker 5: ray tube at a wall, it will go right through.

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Speaker 1: It'll go through most of it. Yeah, exactly. And that's

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Speaker 1: why we call it, you know, X raying something because

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Speaker 1: X rays pass through the soft tissue of your body,

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Speaker 1: but not your bones, and so they reveal what's going

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Speaker 1: on inside. And so radiation is interesting because they can

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Speaker 1: do these things that visible like can't do, but also

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Speaker 1: because it has this power it penetrates and so what

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Speaker 1: reveals what's inside?

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Speaker 5: All right, So then how do we discover X rays?

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Speaker 1: So X ray's discovered in eighteen ninety five by this

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Speaker 1: guy Runken, and this guy was a character. I think

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Speaker 1: you'd like this. He actually was kicked out of high

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Speaker 1: school as a student because he drew a caricature of

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Speaker 1: one of his teachers, which is not very flattering, and

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Speaker 1: so he's sort of a physicist and a cartoonist.

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Speaker 5: Oh, I almost got exposed from high school for the

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Speaker 5: exact same reason, actually, except I didn't just caricature one teacher.

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Speaker 5: I did all of them.

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Speaker 1: Well, then maybe there's a Nobel prize in your future.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, stay tuned.

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Speaker 1: But he was doing experiments at the time with these

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Speaker 1: things called Crooks tubes. We've talked about these before because

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Speaker 1: they were how electrons were discovered. They're basically just these

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Speaker 1: glass tubes that are mostly have vacuum in them, and

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Speaker 1: then you have an anode and a cathode with voltage

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Speaker 1: across them, and so you pull electrons off. People had

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Speaker 1: seen these things before, and you get these beams, these

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Speaker 1: glowing beams inside that look really cool because the electrons

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Speaker 1: were like knocking off atoms and ionizing them, and people

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Speaker 1: were doing lots of experiments with them trying to understand

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Speaker 1: what they were. And again JJ Thompson used them to

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Speaker 1: discover the electrons. But runkit was really interested in whether

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Speaker 1: or not the rays that were being produced inside these

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Speaker 1: tubes could pass through the glass. He was curious to

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Speaker 1: see what they could get through.

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Speaker 5: But these rays were originally electrons, like a stream of

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Speaker 5: electrons or were they light?

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Speaker 1: These were a stream of electrons and that's what JJ

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Speaker 1: Thompson discovered. But the glow that you saw that was

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Speaker 1: visible light. And so the electrons would knock into a

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Speaker 1: few atoms inside the tube, ionize them, they would give

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Speaker 1: off some light, and then they would decay back to

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Speaker 1: their ground state. So what people were sort of oohing

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Speaker 1: and aweing over were seeing a beam of electrons exciting

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Speaker 1: the gas inside the tube.

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Speaker 5: Okay, but just to be clear that the X ray

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Speaker 5: is not the electrons and X rays is a light beam, right.

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Speaker 7: That's right.

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Speaker 1: The X ray is not an electron. Electron is a particle.

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Speaker 1: An X ray is a piece of light. Right, It's

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Speaker 1: a photon of a specific energy. But this is what

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Speaker 1: Runkin started with. He started with these tubes and he

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Speaker 1: was playing around with them, and he accidentally discovered that

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Speaker 1: they also generate X rays.

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Speaker 5: Mmm, like along with the electrons or when the electrons

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Speaker 5: hit stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so the electrons one of the things they do

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Speaker 1: is they generated glow you can see with your naked eye.

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Speaker 1: But they also sometimes generate X rays, and we can

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Speaker 1: get into the whole details of exactly how that happens,

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Speaker 1: how they're accelerated and radiated. But sometimes they generate visible

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Speaker 1: light in our spectrum, and sometimes they generate photons that

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Speaker 1: are higher energy than these are X rays. So he

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Speaker 1: was interested in understanding, like, what is this thing generating?

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Speaker 1: Can it pass through the glass walls of the tube.

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Speaker 1: So what he did was he built a big black box,

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Speaker 1: like a light proof box, and his idea was, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to put this box around my tube. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to see what light is shined on the inside of

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Speaker 1: the box from this tube, so I can see sort

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Speaker 1: of like you know, what light comes out of the

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Speaker 1: tube and hits the side of the box.

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Speaker 7: Mmm.

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Speaker 5: So I guess he wanted to know. He thought he

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Speaker 5: was trapping the light that was coming from the tube,

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Speaker 5: but actually he saw that the light kind of leaked

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Speaker 5: outside of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. He turned off the lights in his laboratory

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Speaker 1: just to sort of like get things warmed up, and

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Speaker 1: he was going to look inside the box to see

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Speaker 1: if he could see like light on the inside walls

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Speaker 1: of the box. But before he did that, he noticed

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Speaker 1: that he saw this weird light outside the box on

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Speaker 1: the wall of his laboratory, and he was like, what's

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Speaker 1: that over there? And it turns out he had a

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Speaker 1: special sort of screen over there just happened to be

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Speaker 1: in the right location that can receive X rays and

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Speaker 1: glows when it hits X rays. And so he discovered

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Speaker 1: that the light doesn't just go through the glass. It

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Speaker 1: also went through his box all the way out to

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Speaker 1: the side of his lab and hit this special screen.

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Speaker 1: So it was quite by accident that he discovered these

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Speaker 1: X rays. WHOA, what was.

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Speaker 5: This special screen that he just had that it seems

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Speaker 5: like such an accidental discovery.

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Speaker 1: It's totally an accidental discovery. And it's a special screen

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Speaker 1: covered with a material that phosphoress, so it absorbs photons

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Speaker 1: at one wavelength and then it gives off photons at

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Speaker 1: a different wavelength, so it's a wavelength shifting effect. And

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Speaker 1: this is the kind of thing we do all the

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Speaker 1: time in physics these days. We absorb photons of one

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Speaker 1: thing and give off photons of another color. So we

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Speaker 1: happen to have a screen covered in this material. It

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Speaker 1: was a barrio phosphorescent material that could absorb X rays

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Speaker 1: and glow in the visible light. And he was like,

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Speaker 1: what's that over there? And did a bunch of experiments

358
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Speaker 1: and he discovered that it could pass through his box,

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Speaker 1: and it could pass through lots of other things, but

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Speaker 1: that it wouldn't pass through metal, for example.

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Speaker 5: Wow, Now, was this the first time that you know,

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Speaker 5: humans kind of got the idea that light can go

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Speaker 5: through things? Or did we already kind of know that

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Speaker 5: there are things in nature that can go through things?

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Speaker 1: Now, this is the first time we understood that light

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Speaker 1: could pass through something that we thought was otherwise solid.

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Speaker 1: And famously, the first X ray picture he ever took

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Speaker 1: was of his wife's hand, and you could see her

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Speaker 1: hand with its wedding ring on it, and he showed

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Speaker 1: it to her and he thought, this is gonna be

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Speaker 1: so romantic and awesome, but she was actually really creeped

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Speaker 1: out and she thought, oh my gosh, I've seen my

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Speaker 1: own death, because she'd seemed like her own skeleton inside

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Speaker 1: her hand. And I think it really changed the way

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Speaker 1: people felt about like the solidity of stuff. Right, you

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Speaker 1: think of yourself as solid and opaque but you're not.

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Speaker 1: You're transparent in some wavelengths of light and you're opaque

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Speaker 1: in other wavelengths of light.

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Speaker 5: Oh. So then from that day they invented X rays,

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Speaker 5: you know, for medical purposes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Things happened really fast because people very quickly understood

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Speaker 1: how powerful this was. Like you could see broken bones

383
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Speaker 1: inside the body, or you could see if your child

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Speaker 1: had swallowed something metal, and so just seeing inside the

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Speaker 1: body without having it cut it open was immediately and

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Speaker 1: enormously powerful. And within a year people were using it

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Speaker 1: in hospitals. And it wasn't hard to make X rays

388
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Speaker 1: Like Crook's tubes were a thing that already existed, and

389
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Speaker 1: so the technology sort of was all around. It just

390
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Speaker 1: took the right combination of knowing what to do and

391
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Speaker 1: how to do it. And he went on to win

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Speaker 1: the first Nobel Prize in physics just a few years later.

393
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Speaker 5: Really, the first one, Wow, the first one.

394
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And you know, it sort of satisfies all

395
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Speaker 1: the requirements. It teaches you something deep about the universe.

396
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Speaker 1: It also made a very big impact on humanity.

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Speaker 5: Wow. And it sounds like it was really more about

398
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Speaker 5: discovering the screen.

399
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a combination. You have to have the radiation

400
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Speaker 1: and you have to have a screen that can receive it. Right,

401
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,439
Speaker 1: X rays are invisible to us, and so if they

402
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Speaker 1: can just fly through the universe and fly through a

403
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 1: wall to see them, you have to put something in

404
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,280
Speaker 1: their path that they will interact with and transform that

405
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Speaker 1: information into something your eyeballs can see.

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Speaker 5: All right, Well, that's X ray radiation, which is light radiation.

407
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Speaker 5: But I guess the more popular kind of radiation, or

408
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Speaker 5: at least in people's consciousness, is particle radiation. And that's

409
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Speaker 5: where the curers come in. And so let's get into

410
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 5: that kin radiation. But first, let's take a quick break.

411
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445
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450
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451
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Speaker 1: If you love iPhone, you'll love Apple Card. It's the

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460
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Speaker 5: Com all right, we're talking about radiation and how it

461
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 5: was discovered and how you should probably wear sunscreen when

462
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 5: you're outside and near particle colliders. Would that helped Daniel

463
00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 5: and near physicist, probably because they're so shiny and beaming.

464
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, they just had to do these crazy experiments

465
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: which sometimes you know, do damage their own help.

466
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,479
Speaker 5: All right, Well, I guess we talked about X ray radiation,

467
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 5: which is really just light at higher frequencies that can

468
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 5: pass through things, and some people associate that with radiation,

469
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 5: but maybe the more common type of radiation that people

470
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 5: think of is kind of the dangerous kind, I guess,

471
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 5: the nuclear kind, and that's more like particle radiation.

472
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and X rays, of course also dangerous. They can

473
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: deposit a lot of energy in your skin, and they

474
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 1: can cause cancer and UV radiation all that stuff, So

475
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: it's definitely dangerous. But particle radiation also very dangerous and

476
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,479
Speaker 1: more famous because I think of the radioactive decays involved

477
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: in nuclear physics, for example. But particle radiation was discovered

478
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: pretty soon after particles were discovered. Remember, the whole idea

479
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 1: of a particle didn't really exist until JJ Thompson discovered

480
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: the electron in the late eighteen hundreds. You know, this

481
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: notion that everything was made out of tiny little bits,

482
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 1: and we could find those things and we could associate

483
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: like a tiny dot in space with mass and with

484
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: other quantities. This is a whole new idea in physics

485
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: at the time. It's not something which had existed for

486
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 1: a long time.

487
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 5: Right before, Like light was just like a beam, right,

488
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 5: like pure energy kind of.

489
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, the wave properties of light were dominant, and people

490
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: thought about light as a wave. They thought about matter

491
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,719
Speaker 1: and waves existing. But the whole idea that things were

492
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: made out of tiny particles, or that these tiny particles

493
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: could fly through space invisibly and hurt you, for example,

494
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: this was brand new. But it was discovered pretty soon

495
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: after the electron was discovered again in the late eighteen hundreds, yeah,

496
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: like the next year. Yeah, And it was spurred by

497
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: the discovery of X rays. Like everybody in the world

498
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: was very excited about the X ray discovery made a

499
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: huge wave in the world of physics. No pun intended,

500
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 1: pun definitely intended.

501
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 5: Oh intended, all right, sorry and pause for it. So

502
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 5: I thought me it was unintentional.

503
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: No, And this bit about the screen that you latched onto,

504
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,719
Speaker 1: this guy deckrel He also was really excited about that.

505
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: He thought it's really cool for something to absorb energy

506
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: in one wavelength and emit in another. To absorb one

507
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: kind of energy and emit another kind of thing. It's

508
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: called luminescence, and he thought it was really exciting and

509
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: he wanted to follow up in this and make also

510
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 1: some kind of crazy discovery. And he came from a

511
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 1: long line of physicists people have been studying this sort

512
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: of kind of thing of generation of heat and energy.

513
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: So he did a series of experiments with uranium crystals

514
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: and he was the first to discover particle radiation. So

515
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: he actually came well before the curies.

516
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 5: Oh interesting, Well, apparently his father was also a physicist

517
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 5: and a radiation physicist too.

518
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: That's right. He actually came from several generations of physicists

519
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: and they all had the same job. They all had

520
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: like the same chair in the head of the natural

521
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: science department in Paris, and so it was sort of

522
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: like a hereditary position almost. He's like a legacy physicist

523
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: in France.

524
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 5: So his father looked into radiation, but he didn't discovery.

525
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, his father also had been studying uranium crests and

526
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,479
Speaker 1: after Becherel discovered radiation, people went back and looked at

527
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: his father's notebooks, and there was plenty of evidence in

528
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: his father's notebooks to document evidence of radiation, but his

529
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: father just sort of didn't put it together. And this

530
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: is something you can do in physics. When people make

531
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: a big discovery, you can look back at people who

532
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: might have discovered it if they had only believed their

533
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: results or followed up on something they didn't understand. It

534
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: sort of missed opportunities in physics.

535
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 5: So I wonder if you want people to see that

536
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 5: or if that's just kind of a little bit embarrassing

537
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 5: from a physics point of view.

538
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: I think it's super fascinating from a sort of history

539
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: of science point of view. You get a result that

540
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: you don't understand or doesn't make sense, do you always

541
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: follow up on it or do you sort of leave

542
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 1: it behind? And those missed opportunities, you know, those times

543
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: when science could have gone differently if somebody had taken

544
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: a different path and thought about something different or had

545
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 1: a different conversation at a conference. It's fascinating to me

546
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: to imagine the sort of alternate universes in which we

547
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: discovered things in different words.

548
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 5: Because that's what everyone wants in their tombstone, you know,

549
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 5: could have won a Nobel prize.

550
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, But they did these experiments with uranium crystals. So

551
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: uranium was a thing, it was a known, it wasn't

552
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: understood what it was doing, but they were doing early

553
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: studies with it. And essentially what they did basically is

554
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: they just put it next to photographic plates, like photographs

555
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: were a thing back then, So they just wrapped them

556
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: in paper and put them next to photographic plates and

557
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: they wanted to see what would happen.

558
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 5: Oh, right, because they had photographs at that time. And

559
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 5: that is also kind of like magic, like light hits

560
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 5: it or not hits it, and it changes color.

561
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It's a special process that absorbs photons and

562
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 1: develops in a different way based on, you know, the

563
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: amount of photons that hit it. To really sort of

564
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: awesome chemical process for absorbing things and taking data. And

565
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: back before we had computers and digital cameras and stuff,

566
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: everything was analog. This was a powerful way to do

567
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 1: science experiments. But Beckerel sort of started off on the

568
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 1: wrong track. Remember, he was interested in luminescence. He thought,

569
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: if you took these uranium crystals and you left them

570
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: in the sun, that they would absorb a bunch of

571
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: energy from the sun and then they might glow in

572
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: some new invisible way. So he put these uranium crystals

573
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: in the sun, then he wrapped them in paper to

574
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: block in the invisible light, and he put them next

575
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: to these photographic plates. So he was hoping maybe he

576
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: would like spind a new way to make X rays,

577
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: or that they would admit in the X ray because

578
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: X rays had just been discovered.

579
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 5: All right, So he saw radiation and X rays and

580
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 5: he thought, hey, I wonder if that works for everything.

581
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 5: So do you think he tried a bunch of different materials,

582
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 5: not just these uranium crystals.

583
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, he tried a bunch of different materials wondering what

584
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: would glow. But these uranium salts, these uranium crystals were

585
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: the things that gave him the best results. But that's

586
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: not actually the most interesting part of his discovery. I mean,

587
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: first he did that, he said, I'm gonna put these

588
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: things out in the sun. Then I'm going to wrap

589
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: them in paper to block in the invisible light and

590
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: see if they make an impact on the photographic plates.

591
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: And they did, so he thought, ooh, that's cool. But

592
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: then he accidentally left a bunch of them a drawer

593
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: next to these photographic plates without shining them in the sun. Mmm,

594
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: so he sort of messed up his experiment. He thought

595
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: it was necessary to leave it in the sun to

596
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: absorb energy and then it would give off this radiation.

597
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: But he accidentally left over the weekend a bunch of

598
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: uranium crystals next to one of these photographic plates and

599
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: came back the next week and said, hmm, oops, for guys,

600
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: will leave this stuff in the sun. But let's just

601
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: develop this film and see what it says.

602
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 5: Woad seriously, total accident.

603
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: Total accident. And he thought, well, you know, I guess

604
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: I did this weird experiment where I skipped the step

605
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: with the sun. Let's see what happens. And he developed

606
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: it and the picture looked exactly the same, which tells

607
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: him that it didn't need to absorb energy from the sun.

608
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: It wasn't luminescence where it was slurping in energy from

609
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: the sun and then changing it into X rays or something.

610
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: It was different. The uranium crystals were just giving off

611
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: energy on their own. They were just like a source

612
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: of some new kind of.

613
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 5: Radiation, some new kind of invisible ray. Right, really what

614
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 5: he thought, right, something invisible was coming out of this

615
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 5: and this invisible thing somehow had energy.

616
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you didn't have to put in energy. It's

617
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: not like with the Crooks too, where you had to

618
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: apply electricity and it generated energy for the electrons which

619
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: generated the X rays. And it wasn't like phosphorescence where

620
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: you had to sit out in the sun and absorb

621
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: the energy and then give it off. It was just

622
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: like pumping out this invisible energy. And now we know

623
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: that it was alpha radiation and beta radiation, but he

624
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: didn't know that at the time. He just knew he

625
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: was emitting some crazy new rays.

626
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 5: And then he also won a Nobel Prize for it, right,

627
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 5: he won like the third one.

628
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: He did, He won the third one, but just barely.

629
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: He discovered this. And the day after he made this discovery,

630
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: he gave a presentation at like the local Scientific society,

631
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: and he beat out some English physicists who made the

632
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: discovery like later that week.

633
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 5: What but if he gave the presentation, then the other

634
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 5: one technically didn't discovery or I guess he wasn't at

635
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 5: the presentation.

636
00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: He wasn't there yet, because you know, the world was

637
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: much smaller, so you could give a whole presentation and

638
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: a society in France and nobody would hear about it

639
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: in England until weeks later or so. And so Sylvanis

640
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: Thompson made very very similar experiments, very similar discoveries just

641
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: a few days later and lost out on the Nobel

642
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: Prize because Beckerell made this discovery and was very quick

643
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: to report it.

644
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 5: Oh, I see Bekerel was in another country.

645
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: Yes, this is in France.

646
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 5: Oh interesting, Wow, that's crazy. Two people in two different

647
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 5: countries make the same fundamental discovery almost a week apart. Yeah,

648
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 5: and there was no internet.

649
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: There was no internet. But this is all spurred by

650
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: Runkid's discovery of X rays and like cracked open whole

651
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: new area of research. People looking for these invisible rays?

652
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: How can we find them? What's making them? What kinds

653
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: are out there? And it really did sparkle, you know,

654
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: a whole new field of research.

655
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 5: All right. So then that's where we get to Madame

656
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 5: Currie and Pierre Currie, and that this is kind of

657
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 5: where their story starts, right like the year after.

658
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, this is where their story starts. So they

659
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: came in after Becharel had already discovered radiation and Runken

660
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: had discovered X rays, and they were really interested in this.

661
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: And Curie herself has a really fascinating backstory. Remember, it's

662
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: very difficult for women in science to have any position

663
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: and to have any engagement. To even get an education.

664
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: She and her sister, for example, had to take turns

665
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: working and going to school. They had this deal where

666
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: one of them would work and the other one would

667
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: go to school, and then they took turns. Wow, and

668
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: you had to be really dedicated and sort of fend

669
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: off a lot of societal pressure even to get to

670
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: have an education, not to mention be a scientist at

671
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: the leading edge of physics knowledge.

672
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it's amazing, a pretty powerful story. So she

673
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 5: was in France and she I guess she knew about

674
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 5: Bequerel's discovery.

675
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: She knew about Beckerreil's discovery, but most of the world

676
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: was more excited about the X rays, like these new

677
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: uranium rays that they called them U rays. People are like, Okay,

678
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: that's cool, but X rays are better because they're easier

679
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: to use, they're faster, they're cheaper, they make sharper images.

680
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: But she was really interested in these us She was like,

681
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: what are these what's making them? What does it tell

682
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: us about the atom that these things are just being

683
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: created out of there. And she was working with her husband, Pierre,

684
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: and they had this really cool device, this thing called

685
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: an electrometer, and it could basically measure very sensitively how

686
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: well things could conduct electricity. And Pierre had developed this

687
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: technology from his earlier research which was into piezo electronics,

688
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: these little devices which create electricity if you squeeze them

689
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,719
Speaker 1: or move if you apply electrical voltage across them. So

690
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: we had this technology and they applied it to the

691
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: study of these urrays and they found something pretty cool,

692
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: which is that if you have a bunch of uranium,

693
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: the air around the uranium tends to get ionized. They

694
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: can conduct electricity more easily than if you don't have

695
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: uranium around.

696
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,239
Speaker 5: Oh I see. And that was a big clue that

697
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 5: it was maybe giving off some kind of energy.

698
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a big clue that it was shooting

699
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: out something because it was like changing the air, right,

700
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: This energy was coming out, It was changing the air

701
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,239
Speaker 1: around the uranium. And Pierre and Marie they took like

702
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: no safety precautions. They got to read it so much

703
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: in their research. There are all these moments you can

704
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: read about in their lab notebooks where they're like, Pierre

705
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 1: has been sick every single day for the last three months.

706
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's coinciding with all these experiments we've

707
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: done whatever, my goodness, and they just kept going. It

708
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: was pretty incredible. They were really pretty sick during this

709
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: whole period, like nineteen hundred to nineteen ten, which is

710
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: a very intense period of their research and discoveries. They're

711
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: basically sick the whole time, and they never really associated

712
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 1: like all this illness with the research they were doing.

713
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that was like a cognitive choice,

714
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: like let's not influence our research with these petty details

715
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: of life, or if they knew and they just sort

716
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: of didn't care because they just were so hungry to

717
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: reveal the knowledge.

718
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 5: Well, technically, we don't know. I mean, they could have

719
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 5: just been, you know, on a rash of eating bad

720
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 5: s cargoers.

721
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: I suppose so. But you know, you look at the

722
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: pattern of damage to their bodies, like their fingertips had

723
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: the really terrible damage to them, you know. Murray Curie.

724
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 1: She's now like a hero in France. Of course, they

725
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: moved her ashes from wherever they had been born just

726
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: about twenty years ago. They moved them to the Pantheon

727
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: in Paris, which is where you know, France ters the

728
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: ashes and the remains of its most highly revered citizens.

729
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: And those ashes were still radioactive. This is like, you know,

730
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: seventy years later what, yeah, exactly. She definitely hurt herself

731
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: for science, he lives. She was really fascinated with this

732
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: fact that the uranium, the U rays could change the

733
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: air around them, and this is what led her to

734
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: this hypothesis that it wasn't like chemical, It's not like

735
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: the electron is giving off some energy that it's absorbed

736
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 1: from some other way. She thought it was something deep

737
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 1: in the atom, that the atoms themselves are maybe not stable,

738
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: that there was something changing internally and it was giving

739
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: off this energy. And of course now we know she's right,

740
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: it was radioactive decay. But this was a really big

741
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: and sort of bold idea at the time.

742
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 5: Well, at this point in our history, we knew about

743
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 5: the atom, and we knew about the kind of the

744
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 5: structure of it.

745
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 1: We knew about the electron, but we hadn't yet even

746
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: discovered the nucleus of the atom. It wasn't until Rutherford

747
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: bombarded gold foil with radiation later that we understood that

748
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: there was like a hard center to the atom that

749
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 1: had a nucleus. God forbid, you know, understanding the proton

750
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 1: and the neutron inside of it. At the time, after

751
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: JJ Thompson discovered the electron, he thought that matter was

752
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: like a bunch of electrons sort of floating in a

753
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: positively charged jelly. And so we didn't really even understand

754
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: the structure of the atom. So this is a really

755
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 1: big leap for anybody to make.

756
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, she's saying that it comes from deep

757
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 5: within the atom, but we didn't even know there was

758
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 5: an atom.

759
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: Well, we knew there were atoms, we just didn't really

760
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: know like what was going on inside there. We didn't

761
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: really understand there was a hard nucleus that was made

762
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: out of these smaller particles. So yeah, it's a pretty

763
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: big leap.

764
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 5: All right, Let's get into her actual experiment in which

765
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 5: she discovered this nuclear radiation and what that means and

766
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 5: what other types of radiation were surrounded. But first let's

767
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 5: take another quick break.

768
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

769
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

770
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite,

771
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy

772
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

773
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

774
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

775
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

776
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

777
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

778
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US dairy

779
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

780
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,360
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781
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

782
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

783
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

784
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense

785
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 1: days every products we love with less of an impact.

786
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 1: Visit US dairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

787
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 9: There are children, friends and families walking, riding on paths

788
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 9: and the roads every day. Remember they're real people with

789
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 9: loved ones who need them to get home safely. Protect

790
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 9: our cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too, Go safely,

791
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 9: California from the California Office of Traffic Safety and caltrans Uh.

792
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,800
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793
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 5: Oh?

794
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,720
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795
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,839
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796
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797
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Speaker 4: I remember shopping for Blinds. I waited around all day

798
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Speaker 4: just to get a quote.

799
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:37,080
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800
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 5: Sorry, I'm Lee. I know you said just the bedroom,

801
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 5: but what do you feel about it?

802
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Speaker 4: I feel like I had to say yes just to

803
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 4: get rid of her.

804
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805
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806
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807
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808
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809
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810
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811
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 10: easy to diy or at in like I did.

812
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813
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814
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815
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:09,719
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816
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817
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818
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819
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:18,360
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820
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: Rules and restrictions may apply.

821
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 5: All right, we're talking about the discovery of radiation, and

822
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 5: we're up to Marie Crie and her discovery that the

823
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 5: nuclei of atoms also radiate things. Because we knew about

824
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 5: X ray radiation, but we didn't know about this particular

825
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 5: kind which is coming from the nucleus.

826
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we didn't even really know about the nucleus yet.

827
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: So this is giving us an insight that there's something

828
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: inside the atom, some mechanism which is capable of generating

829
00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: powerful particle radiation. And so this is discovered originally in urine.

830
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 1: Beccarell saw that it happened, but what the curis did

831
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: was that they sort of refined it. They discovered that

832
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: uranium itself was radioactive, but that there were variations of

833
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: uranium or that was even more radioactive than pure uranium itself,

834
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 1: which suggested that there might be something else in there,

835
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:19,399
Speaker 1: even more radioactive.

836
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 5: Oh, I see interesting, like it's possible to make an

837
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 5: element like an atom the extra radioactive.

838
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. They were working with this material called pitch blend,

839
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 1: which is a version of uranium ore, and they discovered

840
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: that before you purified it, before you purified it to

841
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: make just pure uranium, it was actually more radioactive. So

842
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: they had this hypothesis that there was something else in there,

843
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: a new element that was even more radioactive than uranium.

844
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: So they developed this technique to purify it, and a

845
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: lot of the time they spent, a lot of their

846
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 1: actual science was in this process of isolating this bit.

847
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: It took them, for example, three years of work on

848
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: pitch blend just isolate a tenth of a gram of

849
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: this new substance.

850
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 5: That's crazy. I imagine most people think of radioactive things

851
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 5: as like rocks or something, but for them, this is

852
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 5: probably like a powder or something.

853
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, these are like salts.

854
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 7: Right.

855
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: They're grinding them up, they're purifying it, they're doing chemistry

856
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: to try to separate the bits from the other, like

857
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: does this dissolve in that? How do we pull this

858
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: thing apart? So it really is sort of chemical, and

859
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: what they discovered is that there really is something in

860
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: there that's more radioactive than uranium. Yeah, and so their

861
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,959
Speaker 1: big discovery was the discovery of a new element, which

862
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: Marie called polonium after her native poland mm.

863
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 5: I see, because like if you take a uranium atom

864
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 5: and you give it extra protons and neutrons, then it

865
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 5: becomes a different element.

866
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 7: Yeah.

867
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: Actually, uranium breaks down, right, it splits open, it's unstable,

868
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: and it turns into other stuff now we know, into thorium,

869
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: and into radium and eventually into polonium and all sorts

870
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: of stuff. So if you have a bunch of uranium,

871
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: it eventually turns into this combination of elements. It breaks

872
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: open and turns into smaller, lighter elements, some of which

873
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 1: are more radioactive than uranium itself.

874
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 5: So I guess you could say her discovery was kind

875
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 5: of about nuclear physics, right, even before we knew there

876
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 5: was a nucleus, she sort of maybe intuited that, you know,

877
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 5: there's something going on here inside of matter and atoms

878
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 5: that can somehow, you know, give off energy and change

879
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 5: into different elements. Right, that's maybe it was sort of

880
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,320
Speaker 5: a big contribution. And yeah, not so much about the radiation,

881
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 5: but just kind of about the nature of the insides

882
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 5: of atoms.

883
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly what the radiation reveals about the structure of

884
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: atoms and the structure of matter itself. And you're right,

885
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: it's totally fascinating to see one element turn into another element.

886
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: And if it does that by giving off a particle,

887
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: that tells you that what defines an element must be

888
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: something related to its particle content. Right, you're giving off

889
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: a piece and you turn into something else. That tells

890
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: you that piece was essential for you to be uranium

891
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: or for you to be re So that was pretty

892
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: fascinating clue into the structure of the atom itself. He

893
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: had early nuclear physics. And so she went on to

894
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,919
Speaker 1: win the Nobel Prize in nineteen oh three, same year

895
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: she got her pH d thesis.

896
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 5: Oh my goodness.

897
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty awesome. Not only the first woman to win

898
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: a Nobel Prize in physics, but the first woman in

899
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: France to receive a PhD.

900
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 5: Wow. I wonder which one's more significant in a way.

901
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 5: So she was also in on the third Nobel Prize ever.

902
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, she and her husband Pierre and Becquerel all won

903
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: the Nobel Prize in nineteen oh three. But you know,

904
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: obviously she was very deserving, but the initial nomination was

905
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: only for Pierre and Becquerel. They excluded her, probably because

906
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: she was a woman, but Pierre insisted that, hey, look,

907
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: Marie has done at least as much work as anybody else.

908
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: She's very deserving. So she ended up being included in

909
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: the Nobel Prize.

910
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 5: Wow, that's a great great husband there.

911
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Unfortunately he died tragically. He was hit by

912
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: a horse cart filled with heavy equipment and was crushed

913
00:43:59,440 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: one day.

914
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 5: No way, after all this, so he was killed by

915
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 5: horse radiation.

916
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: Anyway, exactly. Horses are an energetic particle. I suppose. No,

917
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: we shouldn't laugh over anybody's death. It was tragic and

918
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: it was very difficult for Marie, but she persevered and

919
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 1: she did a bunch more chemistry and isolated another element, radium,

920
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: for which she won the nineteen eleven Nobel Prize, this

921
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: time in chemistry.

922
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 5: Also, it's rare. How many people get a Nobel Prize

923
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 5: for their PhD work? Almost nobody, right.

924
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: Not very many. There was the guy who got the

925
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: Nobel Prize for his PhD work. He discovered the binary pulsars,

926
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: which were an excellent test of general relativity. A fascinating

927
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: story there is that he did this work as a

928
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: PhD student. It wasn't really understood or appreciated at the time,

929
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,280
Speaker 1: so he actually left the field, then won the Nobel

930
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: Prize and ended up coming back and getting to do

931
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: more research. So that's pretty fun.

932
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 5: He was like selling cars and then he suddenly gets

933
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 5: a call.

934
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: Not quite that far. He was working in the computing division,

935
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: I think at Princeton, and then he won the Nobel

936
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 1: Prize and they called them up and they were like, so,

937
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: how big an office would you like?

938
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's weird to kind of peak that early in

939
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 5: your career, right, Although Marie kept going. She won a

940
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 5: second Nobel Prize, and even her daughter won one too.

941
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: Yes, her daughter and her daughter's husband worked together again

942
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: on radiation and they induced artificial radioactivity. They took an

943
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: element which was not radioactive, a lunum, and then bombarded

944
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: it with radiation and they made it radioactive. And so

945
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: that was a pretty interesting discovery and they won the

946
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: Nobel Prize in nineteen thirty five. So there's a lot

947
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: of Nobel Prizes in the Curee family, all right.

948
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,879
Speaker 5: Well, then at this point, I guess radiation is pretty

949
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 5: much discovered. I mean we sort of that point. They

950
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 5: knew about X rays and then also about kind of

951
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 5: particle radiation coming from the nucleus.

952
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and everybody thought that radiation came from stuff, right.

953
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: We had found it in ores from metals deep within

954
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: the earth, and so people thought, well, if there's radiation

955
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 1: around from the ground beneath us. So people thought if

956
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:06,280
Speaker 1: you went higher up, like higher altitude, the radiation should decrease,

957
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: right because you're further away from the Earth and all

958
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: these sources of radiation. But people who did measurements found

959
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: something really strange. They found that as you went up

960
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: to the tops of mountains, the amount of radiation seemed

961
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: to be increasing, and that was weird and surprising to people.

962
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, that's when we discovered cosmic radiation.

963
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So there's this wonderfully hilarious pioneering physicist named

964
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: Victor Hess. This guy was born in a castle and

965
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: his father was a royal forester to a prince, and

966
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: he did these amazing experiments where he went up on

967
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: a balloon with his equipment. He improved on Pierre's electroscope

968
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: to measure like ionization due to radiation, and he went

969
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: up on balloons. But you couldn't just like send up

970
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: the balloon and then get the data later right like

971
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: the way we do now, because there's no way to

972
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,720
Speaker 1: record this information. So he actually went on these balloon

973
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: ships himself, like sometimes up at night, really high in

974
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: the atmosphere, a great personal risk. But he discovered that

975
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: as you went up higher and higher, even above mountaintops,

976
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: the amount of radiation increased dramatically. So this point is

977
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 1: something really new and interesting that most of the radiation

978
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: that we were feeling around us wasn't coming from the

979
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 1: earth beneath us, but from the skies above us. Wow.

980
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 5: I guess once you sort of understand that there are

981
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,760
Speaker 5: invisible you know, things flying around you coming from the earth,

982
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 5: and kind of makes you wonder where else are these

983
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 5: things coming from? Or where else can you find them exactly?

984
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: And every time you discover a new way to look

985
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: at the universe, you are bound to find something surprising.

986
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: So discovery of radiation not just showed us what was

987
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: inside the atom and helped us see inside our bodies,

988
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: it also helped us see the universe in a new

989
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: way and to see really really bright sources of this

990
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: new kind of information, and most of it was coming

991
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: from space, and so that was a big question mark

992
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 1: for decades, like what is making radiation out in space

993
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: and shooting it at us? And that's an area of

994
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: research still today, Like we understand a lot of the

995
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: source of that cosmic radiation now, but not all of it.

996
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, it's a big mystery. It's like it could

997
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 5: be anything.

998
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, at the time, people really didn't understand. Now we

999
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: know that a lot of that radiation comes from the Sun,

1000
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,760
Speaker 1: it's the solar wind, and it also comes from outside

1001
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: our solar system, from the galaxy, from the black hole

1002
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: at the center of the Milky Wave, for example, emits

1003
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: a lot of radiation, and other crazy stuff out there

1004
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: emits radiation. But there's still a lots of this radiation

1005
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,919
Speaker 1: from space that we do not understand. The very very

1006
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: high energy particles very tip of that spectrum are higher

1007
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 1: energy than anything we understand can make. So radiation is

1008
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 1: still telling us about the universe and giving us clues

1009
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: about things out there that we don't know about.

1010
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 5: I'm guessing the scientist just wanted a better view out

1011
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 5: of his lab, so he's like, I'm gonna put it

1012
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 5: out a balloon.

1013
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. Or maybe he needed a break

1014
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: from whatever was going on in his life and he

1015
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: just needed an excuse to take a flight.

1016
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 5: In this castle. Too much castle drama. It's I'm hoping

1017
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 5: on my balloon to do signs.

1018
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: As we all do. If they ad made a reality

1019
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: show about it, that would have been the dramatic ending

1020
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: to an episode as he floats away in his balloon.

1021
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 5: All right. Well, I think it's just a really interesting

1022
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 5: kind of view into how we came to see that

1023
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 5: there are a lot of things that we can see, right,

1024
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 5: because how else would you know that there's things there

1025
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,399
Speaker 5: if you can't see them or hear them.

1026
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is a pattern in physics that we

1027
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: keep discovering that their entire segments of the universe we

1028
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: didn't know anything about because for a long time they

1029
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: were invisible to us. The discovery of dark matter, for example,

1030
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: we know that dark matter is out there, it's all

1031
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: around us, it's streaming everywhere. It contains vast amounts of

1032
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: information about what's going on in the universe and how

1033
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: it was born and how it came to be, and

1034
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: we only recently discovered it exists and that tells us

1035
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: that there's almost certainly more stuff going on that we

1036
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: haven't yet cracked open and we haven't discovered that will

1037
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,359
Speaker 1: tell future physicists crazy things about the universe that we

1038
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: cannot yet even anticipate.

1039
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it kind of also reminds you that physics

1040
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,720
Speaker 5: can be dangerous, you know, like you're probing the unknown,

1041
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 5: you're exposing yourself to things yet you don't know whether

1042
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 5: or not they exist or not or what through drink

1043
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 5: your body.

1044
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,760
Speaker 1: Right, that's right. I've eaten a lot of very dangerous

1045
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: airline food and all of my trips to the Large

1046
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: Hadron Collider.

1047
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 5: So yeah, your ashes were probably glow too, Daniel. All

1048
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 5: that Swiss teas that you're eating, it's probably redoactive.

1049
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: Yes, fondue is probably not good for you, Yeah, but

1050
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:17,479
Speaker 1: it's delicious. Yeah.

1051
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 5: All right. Well, that's a pretty fascinating trip down science

1052
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 5: history lane.

1053
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: And I hope it encourages all of you who are

1054
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 1: curious about things we don't understand, things we have not

1055
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: yet unraveled, to follow up those threads. If you see

1056
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: something you don't understand, try to figure it out. Something

1057
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to you, ask yourself questions until it does.

1058
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: Because remember that the history of science is just people

1059
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: being curious, trying to figure stuff out, and pushing forward

1060
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:43,720
Speaker 1: on the envelope of human knowledge.

1061
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,399
Speaker 5: Right, yeah, you too can win a Nobel Prize even

1062
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 5: if you get kicked out of high school for drawing cartoons.

1063
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: That's not an exaggeration.

1064
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 5: All right, Well, we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for

1065
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 5: joining us, See you next time.

1066
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,760
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

1067
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

1068
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1069
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