1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson, psychotherapist. 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 2: And author of The Boundary Boss. Terry Clark is back. 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 3: Hi Terry, Hi, Nice to see you again. 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 2: Nice to see you too. So the last time we 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 2: were here, we did talk a lot about clear communication 7 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: and just having boundaries in communication, how important that was 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: for our relationships, and I was just filling you in that. 9 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 2: This month, we've been talking about the word confront So initially, 10 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 2: when we started talking about that, I thought, who can 11 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: I have on to talk about healthy confrontation because it's 12 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: so interesting to me as adults, I feel like we 13 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 2: have this instinct that that's going to be one of 14 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: the things that we just know how to do. And 15 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 2: it seems like, and maybe this is personal to me, 16 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 2: but I feel it with my friends too, that a 17 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 2: lot of us really struggle in relationships. And this can 18 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 2: be work friendships, romantic relationships. One how to have healthy confrontation, 19 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: like how to talk about the hard things? How do 20 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 2: we do that? Why do you think that's so hard 21 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 2: for us? 22 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 3: I think it's very similar to why it's difficult for 23 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 3: us to establish boundaries because really they're in a lot 24 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 3: of ways, they're one and the same. And it's because 25 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 3: think about the way we were raised. Did anyone value this? 26 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 3: Did anyone teach us how to have hard conversations? Or 27 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 3: did they teach us to smile and suck it up 28 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:29,559 Speaker 3: and be a good girl and turn that frown around? 29 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 3: And if you don't have anything nice to say, I 30 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 3: don't say anything at all. Those are most of the 31 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:39,199 Speaker 3: things that we were taught. So this is a skill 32 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 3: that if nobody taught it to you, how the heck 33 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 3: would you know how to do it? And it really 34 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 3: gets a bad rap. Like I always changed confrontation when 35 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 3: I'm with my therapy clients. I'll say, let's just think 36 00:01:53,000 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 3: about this as communication, okay, right, because confrontation is so charged. Yeah, 37 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 3: from the get like, we don't even start yet, and 38 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 3: we're like confrontation. Who somebody's in trouble. There's going to 39 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 3: be a fight. I'm going to be mad, they're going 40 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 3: to be mad. It's like starting a conversation with we 41 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 3: need to talk, yeah, don't literally nobody ever wants to 42 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 3: talk to you when you know, so I like to 43 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 3: remove all of that charge, okay, and think about healthy 44 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: confrontation as really one and the same as healthy communication. 45 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 3: Whether what you're communicating is positive, or whether it's frustrated, 46 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 3: or whether it's angry, these are all parts of healthy communication. 47 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 3: It isn't just let's just communicate the good things, right. 48 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 3: So in a way, I just ask you to reframe 49 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 3: your mindset everybody listening from confrontation, because it sounds so 50 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 3: like we're going to be provoked into a fight. When 51 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 3: the truth, when you need to tell someone the truth 52 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 3: about something, even if it's a hard truth, what is 53 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 3: on the other side of that is so can be 54 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 3: so satisfying, can be relationship changing, can be you changing 55 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 3: or them changing. So I don't want it to be 56 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 3: vilified because it's something that is so important when you 57 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 3: are building healthy relationships, healthy businesses, healthy friendships, healthy family relationships, 58 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 3: all of it is being able to have these difficult conversations. 59 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: It's so interesting as you were talking, I was thinking 60 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 2: that there's this thing in maybe my head and maybe 61 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: some other people's head that I've had conversations with where 62 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 2: I feel like we have this idea of life or 63 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: relationships or interacting with people where we only want the good, 64 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: and you hit on such an important topic. I think 65 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 2: that like, we can't evolve or grow if we don't 66 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: face the other things that happen to us as humans, 67 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: the hard, the bad, the sad, that any of those emotions. 68 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: But we're very averse to that or that seems to 69 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: be the instinct that popped into my head. Do you 70 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: see that a lot with clients, that we're just like, 71 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: we're only wanting the good, and so that makes having 72 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: these difficult conversations more difficult. 73 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 3: Definitely, And I see this sort of falling into the 74 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 3: category of hyper positivity and bypassing where we see this online, 75 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 3: you know, where people are like only good vibes, Yeah, 76 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 3: like hi, that's you can't be a human unplaneted Earth 77 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 3: and have only good vibes. It's not real. And trying 78 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 3: to make anger something that's pathological or something that's wrong 79 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 3: or you're not spiritual enough if you get angry and 80 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 3: you're like so, as a therapist, of course, I know 81 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 3: that that is impossible. It's also not asperate because it 82 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 3: is through the hard conversations, the honest conversations, that we 83 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 3: deepen the intimacy in our lives. And it can be 84 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 3: small things. You know, this was something that happened many 85 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,799 Speaker 3: years ago. My husband and I were first together where 86 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: we lived in Elizabeth, New Jersey, and I would take 87 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 3: the train into the city and he would come pick 88 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 3: me up. And if I would get off the train 89 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 3: and I would look over because it would like the 90 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 3: parking lot was down below, and if his car was there, 91 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 3: I got so excited and so happy, and if his 92 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 3: car wasn't there, I would be really upset. Now, in 93 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 3: my own mind, I was like, this doesn't make sense 94 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 3: because he was never very late. He would be like 95 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 3: I'd be standing down there for like thirty seconds or 96 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 3: a minute before he would come. But for whatever reason, 97 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 3: it would really hurt my feelings. And even in my 98 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 3: own mind, I was like, this is like a you thing, 99 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 3: Like this doesn't even make sense. He's not even really late. 100 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 3: But I didn't have that awareness at that zac moment. 101 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 3: So I would sort of be pissy in the car 102 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 3: and a little bit withdrawn and a little bit like 103 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 3: how was your day? Fine, like one word answers if 104 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 3: he was if he wasn't there when I got there, 105 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 3: And then finally I decided, oh my god, I have 106 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 3: to tell him because he's the nicest guy. I love him. 107 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 3: We don't fight about anything, but why he doesn't know 108 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 3: this or he wouldn't be late. Yeah, And I just said, hey, 109 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 3: I'm having this weird experience. And I explained when I 110 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 3: just explained to you, I would love it so much 111 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 3: if you could just put in that little extra effort 112 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 3: to be here when the train pulls in, because it 113 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 3: makes me feel so loved and so happy. And he 114 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 3: was like, no problem. Okay. Now he's a little rare 115 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 3: and he's older than me, and he's probably had a 116 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 3: lot of therapy, Like yeah, yeah, he wasn't defensive, he 117 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 3: didn't question. But I also the way that I said it, 118 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 3: I was like, listen, I'm not blaming you. Yeah, I 119 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 3: don't even understand, yeah, why this is my reaction. But 120 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 3: I know if you knew how made me feel, you 121 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 3: wouldn't want me to feel that way. 122 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 123 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 3: And he was like, you're one hundred percent right, I 124 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 3: don't want you to feel that way. And he's that 125 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 3: was twenty five years ago. The guy has never been 126 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 3: late since. But that's something that could be quote unquote 127 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 3: a confrontation, meaning I could have gone to make him wrong. 128 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 3: That's what a confrontation sounds like. What we had was communication. 129 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 3: We had a conversation where I also had the ability 130 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 3: to own the fact that it was in me thing 131 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 3: yet knowing he would having faith, hoping that he would 132 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 3: care that it hurt my feelings for some weird reason. 133 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 3: So my thought about relationships and communication and why the 134 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 3: story I shared the story is that my husband doesn't 135 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 3: have to always understand why I feel the way I feel, 136 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 3: but he really does have to always care. Yeah, and 137 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 3: that rule is for me as well. So I think 138 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 3: in relationships we want to think about them that way. 139 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 3: It's not a right or wrong. When you think of 140 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 3: a confrontation, or when I do, I think of people 141 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 3: being like, well, this is why you're wrong, and this 142 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 3: is why what I did was the right thing. What 143 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 3: you did is the wrong thing. And I think that 144 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 3: if we change the frame on that to be instead 145 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 3: of you against me, it's you and me against the problem. 146 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 3: I try to get on board with your partner or 147 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 3: with anyone, Yeah, with anyone that I'm having a conflict 148 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 3: with or that I have to have a hard conversation with, 149 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 3: I always try to start that interaction with Listen, I 150 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 3: love you. I have no doubt we're going to figure 151 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 3: this out, but I have to tell you it hurt 152 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 3: my feelings or I was upset, or I wasn't okay 153 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 3: that you took my thing without asking or whatever. It 154 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 3: is like you can always start a conversation with if 155 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 3: it's someone you love with sweetness, with truth, reminding them 156 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 3: and you that, like we love each other right, actually 157 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 3: want to come to terms hopefully, you know. 158 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I hear a lot. There's so many 159 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 2: things that just popped up for me that I want 160 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 2: to touch on, and one is the not blame piece, 161 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 2: because I think that that is the quickest reaction as 162 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 2: a human that we have, is like they're doing something wrong. 163 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 2: And the other piece of that that maybe you could 164 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: touch on in this question would be you mentioned anger, 165 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: and I think a lot of us have also been taught, 166 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 2: especially as women, were taught like that is not an 167 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: emotion that is okay to express, you know, and especially 168 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 2: if like you express it in a way that's angry, 169 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 2: Like it's not like what you said. It seems like 170 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 2: you got a little more comfortable with not figuring it 171 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 2: out and you were just like, hey, I don't know 172 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 2: why this is coming up. That was very calm in 173 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 2: that presentation. But what if we feel angry and we're 174 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 2: reacting that way, you know, And I think when we're angry, 175 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 2: it's very easy to just go, you did something wrong. Yep, 176 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 2: this is about the way you're You're late all the time, 177 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 2: this makes me upset, whatever. So one I guess would be, 178 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: how do we get comfortable with the emotion of anger? 179 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: And then two? 180 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 3: No, no, stay with one, stay with them, forget one, 181 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 3: and then well then we'll get to do. Part of 182 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 3: it is you have to stop vilifying it in your 183 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 3: own mind, okay, right, you have a right as to 184 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 3: other people to be angry. 185 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 186 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 3: Where boundaries come in is that we have to have 187 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 3: agreements in healthy relationships about how we will express and 188 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 3: share our anger. So I'm really big on teaching couples 189 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 3: how to fight fairly. Okay, how to We've got to 190 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 3: have some rules of engagement around what we're going to 191 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 3: do when we're mad. Okay, right, because people feel like 192 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 3: a lot of times couples will justify well, I was 193 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 3: so angry. That doesn't justify name calling, throwing stuff up 194 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 3: from the past to hurt your partner intentionally, kitchen sinking 195 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 3: it where you're like and this other thing was getting 196 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 3: on my nerves, and these other forty four things. We 197 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 3: have to stick to one thing. So I have a 198 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 3: whole list and we can go over them of how 199 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 3: to fight fairly. Okay, And here's the thing. You can 200 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 3: absolutely be angry and not blame you can. I think 201 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 3: that this being blaming and defensiveness are two of the 202 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 3: biggest blocks to healthy communication, So meaning be explosive anger, right, 203 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 3: anger and then being abusive anger and then being petty 204 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 3: being mean like lashing out to hurt your partner. Now 205 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 3: that's none of that is constructive. We know this. But 206 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 3: you can definitely be angry and say, hey, I'm really 207 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 3: pissed that you've been late after I talked to you 208 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 3: about it. Let's just say if that were the case, 209 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 3: because I was to you and I talked to you 210 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 3: about it, and now it tells me you don't care 211 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 3: about the way that I feel and I'm pissed. You know, Like, 212 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 3: we can be angry and not be you you U. 213 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 3: So part of it is you have to understand your 214 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 3: own downloaded confrontation blueprint, we can call it, right, What 215 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 3: did you learn in your family of origin? How did 216 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 3: people fight? Did they fight in my family, everything was 217 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 3: very waspy and suppressed and underground. So anger was definitely 218 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 3: a forbidden emotion. 219 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:35,599 Speaker 2: Yeah. 220 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 3: So what happens when you have anger as a forbidden 221 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 3: emotion is that you you naturally, unconsciously turn your own 222 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 3: anger into something else. You turn it inward. It feels 223 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 3: like depression. Would I would be sad. I would always 224 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 3: be okay to say I was upset, because that was 225 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 3: an acceptable emotion. But it's not satisfying or honest to 226 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 3: say I am upset when I am actually pissed. They're 227 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 3: different feelings. We're not being seen accurately. But I didn't 228 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 3: have anyone teaching me how to manage my anger. So 229 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 3: I learned, of course, in many years of therapy, how 230 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 3: to do it, and that it's important. This is an emotion. 231 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 3: We don't have the skill or the power of human 232 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 3: beings to just decide we're not doing it. I don't 233 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 3: do anger, you don't great. That's not something you can 234 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 3: actually opt out of it. It's not like somebody's mailing list. Right, 235 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 3: You're going to have that feeling. The question is can 236 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 3: you learn to honor it? And the answer is you can. 237 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: Well, you do so much work on boundaries, and like, 238 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 2: isn't it true that sometimes our anger is just communicating 239 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: to us that we need a boundary there, like we 240 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 2: need we're bumping up against something that isn't working for. 241 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 3: Us without a doubt. Which is why I always tell 242 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 3: you to do a resentment inventory when you start this 243 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 3: process of wanting to need more truthful in your life 244 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 3: and you're like, I don't know where to start with 245 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 3: my boundaries or with my confronting or whatever it is 246 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 3: we're talking about, And I always say I do have 247 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 3: resentment inventory, because that can be a guide, a little 248 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 3: GPS to show you where either a boundary is needed, 249 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 3: or a boundary is being violated or in need of 250 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 3: some kind is not being met. And so that will 251 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 3: give you literally like the top three relationships in your 252 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 3: life that need your attention, because we all know the 253 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 3: players in our life. We have easier people and we 254 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 3: have harder people. Yeah, and yet we can still really 255 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 3: love the harder people. We just have to grow the 256 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 3: skills to have the confrontation, to have the conversation that 257 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 3: needs to be had. 258 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 2: Okay, well, let's talk about the harder people then, because 259 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: you just mentioned them and this kind of ties in 260 00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 2: The second question I was going to ask is a 261 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 2: little bit just about the blame, which I think you 262 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: pretty much covered and touched on with the harder people. 263 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 2: How do we know, you know when it is time 264 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 2: to continue trying to grow our communication skills in this relationship, 265 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 2: when it's time to just stop, because this is a 266 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 2: one sided healthy communication situation. Like, God, what I hear 267 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 2: with your husband was you kind of put it back 268 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 2: on you. You figured out, hey, this is this is 269 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 2: about me. I don't really know why, but this is 270 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 2: what's happening for me. He heard you, he did he 271 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 2: changed the behavior, and you guys were able to let 272 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: it go and move on because of that. And so 273 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 2: that's like a reciprocal situation. But what if you're finding 274 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: yourself in a situation where the reason maybe you don't 275 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 2: want to confront something is because it hasn't been met 276 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 2: like that, Like, how do we navigate those the tough 277 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 2: people and the tough situations. 278 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 3: Well, sometimes we just have to say what it is. 279 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 3: So it's not a strategy more than it is a 280 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 3: truth telling where it's like, let's say that you're talking 281 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 3: about the difficult person and now there's something I have 282 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 3: to talk about with them. You can say, you know, 283 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 3: I've really worked on our relationship to tell you the 284 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 3: things that hurt me or that bother me. And I 285 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 3: have to say I'm disappointed because I feel like I 286 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 3: get met with a lot of defensiveness with no change behavior, 287 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 3: and it really makes me feel unloved. And I have 288 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 3: to say I think it's actually this dynamic is really 289 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 3: threatening the relationship, Like I don't see wanting to do 290 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 3: this dance forever. So the person, even if they react 291 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 3: and say you're threatening me, you're trying to give me, 292 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 3: you know, to meet them. If you are telling the truth, 293 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 3: at least you know you're doing your part and they 294 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 3: may come back afterwards. That may be on a wake 295 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 3: up call for them, we don't know. And if they 296 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 3: say you're threatening me, you can say, no, I actually 297 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 3: love you enough to tell you the truth about how 298 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 3: these interactions are impacting the way I feel about you. Yeah, 299 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 3: something doesn't change, like I'm going to end the relationship. 300 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 2: Basically, we talked a little bit about codependency or not 301 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 2: a little bit. We talked a lot about it last time, 302 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 2: and you called me out one time because you're like, oh, 303 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 2: there she is, I see that code of tendency. And 304 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 2: I think one of the things that I struggle with with, 305 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 2: you know, working through my people pleasing strategies, is that 306 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 2: sometimes it almost feels easier if it's a difficult person 307 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 2: in your life to not speak up. Like what you 308 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 2: just said sounds very complex and complicated to me with 309 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 2: certain people I can think of So when the risk 310 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 2: feel better, I mean like more there feels like there's 311 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 2: more at stake with the risk than the reward. What 312 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 2: are things we can work on within ourselves with that, 313 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 2: Like if you feel like you can't bring it up 314 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 2: to them, you know. 315 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 3: Yep, but there's other ways you can. You can write 316 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 3: a letter, you can write an email. You can if 317 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 3: it's too threatening to do it in person because the 318 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 3: person is difficult in that way, or they're like a 319 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 3: lawyer and they'll like try to talk you out of it, 320 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 3: so to s Yeah, a lot of times with our clients, 321 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 3: I'll have them write down what they want to say, 322 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 3: like actually write it out and then to the person 323 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 3: if you want to involve them that way, you can say, listen, 324 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 3: I've written something because I find it difficult, I lose 325 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 3: track of what I'm saying and I really would love 326 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 3: for you to let me finish what I have to say, 327 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 3: and then I'm all ears for what you your response 328 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 3: to it, and then you can read and if they 329 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 3: go to interrupt, you can go Nope, your full hand 330 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 3: up in the stop position, and it's like, please let 331 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 3: me finish. This is really hard for me, but you're 332 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 3: important to me, and this relationship is important to me, 333 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 3: and I want you to know how I feel. Yeah, 334 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 3: And here's the thing I'm not saying. We keep barking 335 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 3: up like the wrong tree. Some people. You have to 336 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 3: decide what are your deal breakers? Right, if you remember 337 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 3: the way we look at boundaries or your preferences, your desires, 338 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 3: your limits, and your deal breakers. And if there isn't 339 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 3: any payoff in the relationship itself, if the person doesn't 340 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 3: allow you to change, if they keep relating to you 341 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 3: the way you used to be, if they keep wanting 342 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,239 Speaker 3: you to be the way you used to be, if 343 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 3: they's hypercritical, if they're abusive, if they're name calling, if 344 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 3: they're alcohol whatever. Like, there's a million reasons that we 345 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 3: outgrow relationships, but you'll never regret unless the person is violent. 346 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 3: And if they are violent, then none of this advice. 347 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 3: The only thing that matters is your safety, right, Yeah, 348 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 3: but if they're not, you won't regret asserting yourself to 349 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 3: be accurately seen in the relationship because that's where your 350 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 3: growth is. It is not about what they do, It's 351 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 3: about how asserting yourself and having the courage to do 352 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 3: that changes you. 353 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I want to talk about how to fight fairly, 354 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 2: But I have one more question about difficult people because 355 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 2: I completely it's like starting to resonate in my life 356 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 2: about what you're saying as far as my romantic relationships 357 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 2: and my friendships go. And I do think I can 358 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: look back in the past and see how I contributed 359 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 2: to some unhealthy confrontation because of my you know, just 360 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,719 Speaker 2: wanting things to be peaceful, being scared of anger in 361 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 2: certain ways, or then exploding like all of those things. 362 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 2: But the word you just said that triggered this thought 363 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 2: for me was the word payoff, Like if there's no 364 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 2: or payout, if there's no payout in the relationship for you. 365 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 2: So when we're in a work situation, obviously you're being paid. 366 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 2: So this gets tricky, I think with confrontation because it 367 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 2: threatens your security a little bit to say like, do 368 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. 369 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 3: Yes, But what matters in the work thing is they're 370 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 3: a power differential or not. Okay, So the way that 371 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 3: you're going to handle confrontation or conflict with your boss, yeah, 372 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 3: who has the power to fire you, correct, will be 373 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 3: different than the way you would handle it with a 374 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 3: subordinate you have the power to fire, or with a 375 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 3: coworker where you have equal power to not fire each other. Okay, 376 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: So we always have to go into those situations thinking 377 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 3: about that. It depends on what you need to have 378 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 3: a conversation about. Right, is it that you've been waiting 379 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 3: for a raise, You've been promised a raise, you haven't 380 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 3: gotten a raise, and you need to bring up that conversation. Right. 381 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 3: I don't consider that a confrontation, but it is bringing 382 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 3: up a topic that might be uncomfortable because I promised 383 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 3: and they didn't do it. And you can say, hey, 384 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 3: I wanted to circle back to our conversation about my conversation. 385 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 3: Let me know when is a good time for you. 386 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 3: You can send an email that says that, yeah, you know, 387 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 3: we're making an assumption that sooner or later they're going 388 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 3: to have the conversation about the increase with you that 389 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 3: they said that they would, and you don't start that 390 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 3: by saying, well, you promised me this six months ago, 391 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 3: or you never keep your word, or you're a terrible boss, 392 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 3: right because we're still hoping we're going to get the money. 393 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 3: So you have to be strategic when it comes to 394 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 3: especially where someone has power over you, and you want 395 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 3: to be thoughtful where you have power over someone else, 396 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 3: Like it's not appropriate for you to share your heartbreak 397 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,719 Speaker 3: with your boss or your subordinate, perhaps a coworker if 398 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 3: you're friendly. So again, those are personal boundaries too, where 399 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 3: we think about who should know what about your life. 400 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 3: How do we go about You don't abuse your position 401 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 3: over a subordinate because that's wrong to do. Sing you 402 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 3: don't threaten them even though you could. Right, it's being mindful. 403 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 3: I actually have power over this person, so I need 404 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 3: to act accordingly and not be threatening because it's not 405 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 3: being a good boss. So I think that people have 406 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 3: to look at what is the situation they have and 407 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 3: if it is with the boss, is it something that 408 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 3: should go to HR, should you go to human resources? 409 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 3: Or are you being sexually harassed? That's different than not 410 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 3: getting the rays at the time they said they would 411 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 3: give it to you. So it depends. Again, we're looking 412 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 3: at what's a preference, what's a desire, what's a limit, 413 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 3: and what's an actual non negotiable deal breaker. 414 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 2: Okay, that helps, That does make sense. Well. The last 415 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 2: question I'll ask you then is because I did want 416 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 2: to talk to you a little bit about just tools 417 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 2: and practices that we can use, and you've touched on 418 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 2: a couple of those. But you did mention you have 419 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 2: a list of how to fight fairly, so give us, 420 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:12,360 Speaker 2: give us the jeese. 421 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 3: Well start with no kitchen sinking it. As I said before, 422 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 3: So if you're talking through one issue at a time, 423 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 3: you're going to stick to that issue. It's not fair 424 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 3: or effective to throw in the last ten years the 425 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 3: shit you didn't say for ten years is not appropriate 426 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 3: to be like, sit down, I'm going to talk to 427 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 3: you for four hours about all the things that I 428 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 3: wrong with you. Okay, keep in your mind, we really 429 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 3: want to choose to be loving over being right, because honestly, 430 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 3: you can't be both. Oh it is, but you've got 431 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 3: to really want it and you both have to sort 432 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,959 Speaker 3: of be in agreement. And this is where the you 433 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 3: and me against the problem instead of you against me, Like, 434 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 3: really think about that alone. If you adopted that with 435 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 3: your partner, if you fight, that would change your relationship 436 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 3: to go. We're on the same team always. Yeah, it's 437 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 3: always you and me against this misunderstanding. You and me 438 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 3: against this pattern of behavior that is not what's best 439 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 3: for us as a couple. So that's a shift in mindset. 440 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 441 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 3: Number three, make sure you're using eye statements to communicate 442 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 3: your experience. This is where we avoid the you you you. 443 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 3: So avoid blaming, avoid judging, pointing out how bad, stupid, 444 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 3: or insensitive they were. It's super counter productive and not effective. 445 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 2: They don't nobody's going to be like, oh cool, thanks 446 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 2: for telling me that. Yeah, awesome, it's all my fault. Yeah. 447 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 3: Also, take a break, take a breath, right, really think 448 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 3: about your fifty percent of the current conflict, Like what 449 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 3: is my contribution to what has gone on? Because it 450 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 3: isn't just it's always fifty you and fifty them. 451 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 2: It has to be yeah. Yeah. 452 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 3: Number four, give yourself full attention. That means no screens 453 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 3: at all whatsoever, close your laptops, no television on tablets down, 454 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 3: like trying to talk with the screen between you is 455 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,719 Speaker 3: just ridiculous, and people do it yeah, because it's so. 456 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 3: It can be stressful, but that is not cool. Theyn't 457 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 3: do it. 458 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 2: Yeah. 459 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 3: Number five, no interrupting And this might take practice, but 460 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 3: it is so worth it to settle in and hear 461 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 3: the other person out and vice versa. It is respectful 462 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 3: and loving and it really is the key component to 463 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 3: active listening where give each other the expansion. This is 464 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 3: a lot of Horrible Hendrix's work where he and his 465 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 3: wife Helen of like fifty something years wrote a book, 466 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,479 Speaker 3: you know, keeping the Love you keeping the love you find, 467 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 3: or finding the Love you Want. There's a whole bunch 468 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 3: of different ones, but they created a way of doing therapy, 469 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 3: and it's a lot about mirroring. Right. You're mirroring the 470 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 3: other person back, so mirroring what you think they're saying. 471 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 3: When you've heard the other person out. An effective technique 472 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 3: is to say, if I heard you right, you would 473 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 3: like me to blah blah blah. Did I get that right? 474 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 2: I love that tool. 475 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 3: Oh it's so good. It so works. 476 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 2: Yes. 477 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 3: And if they say yes, then you say is there more? 478 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: Okay, is there more? That's a new right, I haven't 479 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 2: heard that Okay. 480 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, meaning so if they say, yes, you got it right. 481 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 3: That's what I was saying, to have your partner say, 482 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 3: is there more? Is there more you'd like to say 483 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 3: instead of the fighting for airspace, you know, instead of 484 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 3: fighting for that, it's literally giving expansion And it feels 485 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 3: so incredible to give and to receive that. 486 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. Isn't it true that it's like a basic human 487 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 2: need that we just need to feel seen and heard. Yes, 488 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 2: So much of what you're saying is it's that it's 489 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 2: like learning how to communicate with each other so that 490 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 2: we can feel seen and heard within our relationships. 491 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 3: Yes, and feel important and. 492 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 2: Feel important and care for. 493 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, you cannot understand why I'm being weird about that, 494 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 3: but you changing your behavior, which just makes me feel 495 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 3: incredibly loved. Yeah, And you don't have to understand, right, 496 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 3: but you do have to give a crap. Like you 497 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 3: don't have to understand exactly why your partner is the 498 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 3: way they are, but if something is hurting them or 499 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 3: harming them or hurting their feelings. And I'm not talking 500 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 3: about stuff that falls under the category of like hardcore control, 501 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 3: because you'll have like people in us relationships and they're like, well, 502 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 3: I don't want you being friends with this person. I 503 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 3: don't want you going out, I don't want you wearing 504 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 3: this thing like. I'm not talking about that, right because 505 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 3: I feel like that falls more into the category of 506 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 3: like hyper controlling, as opposed to it's not about your 507 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 3: own boundaries. That really is literally about controlling the other person. 508 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 3: And the last thing I want to say about fair 509 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 3: fighting is that you have to agree to take a 510 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 3: time out if it gets too heated. Okay, this is 511 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 3: how you protect the relationship, because when we get too 512 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 3: heated is when we can say things that you can't 513 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 3: back up. Remember, words can be weapons, and when you 514 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 3: say that shit, you cannot unring that bell. You can't. 515 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 3: So when in doubt, take a break. 516 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 2: Okay, when in doubt, take a breaking to make a 517 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 2: chance about that in my head, Well, the book is 518 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 2: called The Boundary. It's called Boundary Boss, the Essential Guide 519 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 2: to talk true, be seen, and finally live free. I'll 520 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 2: put that in the description of this podcast for you guys. 521 00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 2: I have to say, and I told you this before 522 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 2: the pot podcast. I got so many messages after the 523 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 2: first podcast of people who ordered the book and we're 524 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 2: reading it and just like, this is helping me so much, 525 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 2: just how it's breaking down the because sometimes I think 526 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 2: we overcomplicate it and you and your book make it 527 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 2: very clear on how to set a boundary, how to communicate, 528 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 2: so people are loving that. I'll put that in the 529 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 2: description of this podcast for you guys, Terry. Where else 530 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 2: can people find you? Oh, and do you have anything 531 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: else going on that we need to know about? 532 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? 533 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 2: I do, I do. 534 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 3: I actually have. Let's see, I have a workbook coming out, 535 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 3: so the Boundary Boss Workbook is not coming out till 536 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 3: the fall, but that's pretty exciting. And then in August, 537 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 3: in August, I have the Mother Wound course which is 538 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 3: starting the beginning of August. So you can find all 539 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 3: of that information at Terrycole dot com. 540 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 2: Terry Coole dot com. Also check Terry out on Instagram. 541 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 2: Is it just at Terry Cole? 542 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 3: It is? 543 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 2: Okay? I love following you on Instack. You'll give the 544 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 2: quick tips and those are always just really good to 545 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: get through my day, you know, like sometimes you'll hit 546 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 2: a tip and I'm like, oh, I wasn't even thinking 547 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 2: about that, but I need that one. I'll put that 548 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 2: in a description of this podcast as well, Terry, thank 549 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 2: you so much for being here with us. I love 550 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 2: how you break things down. It makes it much easier 551 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 2: for my brain to comprehend, and it feels a little 552 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 2: less scary. I just feel like this is one of 553 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 2: those overwhelming topics to a lot of us. So you 554 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 2: got this, Kelly, Thanks for having me all right. Thank 555 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 2: you for being here, and thank you guys for listening. 556 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson, 557 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet and a 558 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty 559 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.