Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody.
Speaker 2: I'm Jamelle Hill and welcome to his politics and I
Speaker 2: heard podcasts and unbothered production.
Speaker 1: Time to get spolitical.
Speaker 2: As I mentioned last week, I'm going to use Black
Speaker 2: History mouff to highlight black stories and sports that don't
Speaker 2: get the attention they deserve. And this week's story starts
Speaker 2: and ends in Pittsburgh, specifically with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Now,
Speaker 2: the Steelers are one of the most revered and successful
Speaker 2: franchises in NFL history. They are currently tied with the
Speaker 2: New England Patriots for most Super Bowl wins, with both
Speaker 2: franchises having won six Super Bowls. Now, for the Steelers,
Speaker 2: six super bowls came in the nineteen seventies, when they
Speaker 2: were considered a premier dynasty. Now, I'm sure you've heard
Speaker 2: of the legendary coach Chuck Nole, who coached those teams
Speaker 2: and was with the Steelers for twenty three years, and
Speaker 2: of course the Rooney family, who is considered to be
Speaker 2: the gold standard of pro football ownership. There was another
Speaker 2: man who played a critical role in the Steelers becoming
Speaker 2: an dynasty. The man who was primarily behind the Steelers
Speaker 2: building their infamous Steel Curtain defense. That man would be
Speaker 2: Bill Nunn, a former scout and assistant director of player
Speaker 2: personnel for the Steelers. Now here's what it happened was
Speaker 2: Bill Nunn was a newspaper guy, and as someone who
Speaker 2: started their career in newspapers, I have a special place
Speaker 2: in my heart for Bill Nunn's enormous legacy. Now, None
Speaker 2: was a sportswriter and editor of the Pittsburgh Courier, a
Speaker 2: distinguished national black newspaper. Starting in nineteen fifty, None selected
Speaker 2: the paper's annual Black College All American football team, and
Speaker 2: he hosted an annual banquet for the coaches and players. Now,
Speaker 2: through his work and study of HBCUs, None developed an
Speaker 2: extensive knowledge of the players from historically black colleges and universities. Now,
Speaker 2: back in those days, all the premier black college football
Speaker 2: talent they went to HBCUs because of segregation. So HBCUs
Speaker 2: were the only place where they could really showcase what
Speaker 2: they could do. The Black college football product was a
Speaker 2: superior product, even though players, coaches, and the HBCU brand
Speaker 2: of football were largely ignored by the NFL and disrespected
Speaker 2: by the mainstream and by mainstream you know who I mean.
Speaker 2: According to USA Today senior NFL writer Jared Bell, None
Speaker 2: has such deep relationships with HBCU coaches and players than
Speaker 2: when they went to visit Pittsburgh. They often stayed with None,
Speaker 2: since a lot of the hotels were segregated.
Speaker 1: As for how None wound up with the.
Speaker 2: Steelers, well, it was a relationship that began rooted in criticism.
Speaker 2: None ragged on the Steelers for their lack of talent
Speaker 2: and success. Before the Steelers became a dominant team in
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies, Pittsburgh had only seven winning seasons since
Speaker 2: the franchise began in nineteen thirty three. Aubrey Bruce, the
Speaker 2: sports columnists for the New Pittsburgh Career, explains how None
Speaker 2: and the Steelers became connected for life.
Speaker 3: Initially, Bill and Nunn's relationship with the Steelers was a critic.
Speaker 3: It was criticizing the team for not having black players,
Speaker 3: and we cannot forget Dan Rooney ms ruinship. Was you
Speaker 3: so much an expert? Come on over, let scout we
Speaker 3: can get some plays now.
Speaker 2: Bill Nunn's response was less or whatever. The nineteen sixties
Speaker 2: version of that was. The Steelers hired None as a
Speaker 2: part time scout in nineteen sixty seven, two years before
Speaker 2: they hired Chuck no who coached the Steelers to their
Speaker 2: first four Super Bowl victories. But it was None who
Speaker 2: had the secret sauce.
Speaker 4: From the stories that Bill told me, some of the
Speaker 4: scouts weren't very comfortable of going into those schools of
Speaker 4: the historically black colleges scouting players. They didn't always think
Speaker 4: that they would have access to them.
Speaker 2: That was me and Joe Green, one of the key
Speaker 2: defensive forces that was part of the Steelers infamous Steel
Speaker 2: Curtain defense. Much to the dismay of the Pittsburgh fans
Speaker 2: at the time, the Steelers drafted Green fourth overall in
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine. That same draft, None told the Steelers
Speaker 2: to take el C. Greenwood, another major figure in the
Speaker 2: Steel Curtain, in the tenth round out of Arkansas. But
Speaker 2: that was just the beginning of a new era in
Speaker 2: Steelers football.
Speaker 5: From nineteen sixty nine to nineteen seventy five, the Steelers
Speaker 5: drafted twenty four players from HBC years, the most in
Speaker 5: the NFL. Five players from those schools, Mel Blunt, Elsie Greenwood,
Speaker 5: Ernie Holmes, John Stalwart, and the undrafted Donnie Schell became
Speaker 5: Pillars of four Super Bowl teams in the seventies.
Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy four, the Steelers added five Hall of
Speaker 2: famers to their roster, four of which were drafted. It's
Speaker 2: considered to be one of the greatest NFL draft classes
Speaker 2: in history. The Steelers drafted lyn Swan, Jack Lambert, John Stalworth,
Speaker 2: and Mike Webster, and then they signed the undrafted rookie
Speaker 2: Donnie Shale. None is credited for the entire reason the
Speaker 2: Steelers took Stalworth and Shell with None in their ear
Speaker 2: Three fourths of that famed steel Curtain defensive line came
Speaker 2: from HBCUs. While None was known for his strong connection
Speaker 2: to HBCU's that wasn't the only thing that None brought
Speaker 2: to the table, said Kevin Colbert, who was the Steelers
Speaker 2: general manager for over twenty years. Of course, he was
Speaker 2: known for his work in the HBCUs and what he
Speaker 2: did in breaking down barriers and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1: But Bill scouted.
Speaker 2: The first time I was with him on the road,
Speaker 2: we spent a day at Boston College.
Speaker 1: Even though his expertise was the hbcused, he was so
Speaker 1: much more than that.
Speaker 2: None retired from the Steelers in nineteen eighty seven as
Speaker 2: assistant personnel director, he never got to be a general manager,
Speaker 2: a position he was clearly qualified for. Even after he
Speaker 2: officially retired, None still continued to work part time for
Speaker 2: the Steelers. In twenty fourteen, he had a stroke in
Speaker 2: the team's scouting room and died a few days later.
Speaker 1: At eighty nine.
Speaker 2: Years old and twenty twenty one, None was inducted into
Speaker 2: the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He is the first
Speaker 2: black person in the Hall's history to be enshrined as
Speaker 2: a contributor. The same year of his induction, the Pro
Speaker 2: Football Writers of America renamed their award that honors distinguished
Speaker 2: reporting in Pro Football after None. Unfortunately, these honors came
Speaker 2: for None after his son, a famous actor I'm sure
Speaker 2: you'll recognize, had already passed away. You might remember his
Speaker 2: son from this role.
Speaker 6: Turn out him off right, turn it up radio out here.
Speaker 6: I can't him myself. Three you want you want to.
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: I don't know why that wouldn't ring a bell, But
Speaker 2: just in case it didn't, here's another famous character played
Speaker 2: by Bill Nunn's son.
Speaker 6: Who wasn't making no money then?
Speaker 2: Was we?
Speaker 6: Now that we are?
Speaker 7: You out here living your fucking Michael Jordan, fantasy shooting,
Speaker 7: jumpers and whatnot.
Speaker 6: Business must be pretty good. We will be brother beat.
Speaker 6: This a man freebase. So what yo, man? You know
Speaker 6: the rules us brothers don't be getting out. Shut the
Speaker 6: fuck up.
Speaker 7: Man, it just try to call you a non talking basket.
Speaker 2: The actor Bill Nunn died in twenty sixteen, five years
Speaker 2: before his father officially became a Hall of Famer, but
Speaker 2: his father's legacy lives on as it is one that
Speaker 2: was clearly built to last.
Speaker 1: I'm Jamel Hill and I approved this message.
Speaker 2: I am so excited about today's episode because my guest
Speaker 2: is a billion dollar producer.
Speaker 1: That's right, I said billion with a B.
Speaker 2: He had ten films that have opened at number one
Speaker 2: at the box office, and in twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen,
Speaker 2: his two comedies that he produced for the highest grossing.
Speaker 1: Comedies in those years.
Speaker 2: His success is not limited to movies, as he has
Speaker 2: produced quality, award winning content in the television space, including
Speaker 2: and unscripted. He's a proud HBC you graduate, and most recently,
Speaker 2: he became a minority owner with the Atlanta Falcons. He's
Speaker 2: got one of the best success stories in Hollywood history.
Speaker 2: Which you can read about in his new book Who
Speaker 2: Better Than You The Art of Healthy Arrogance and Dreaming.
Speaker 2: Coming up next on Politics, mega producer Will Packer.
Speaker 6: So Will, I'm going.
Speaker 2: To start the podcast by question I asked every guest
Speaker 2: on politics and that is named a athlete or a
Speaker 2: moment that made you love sports.
Speaker 7: Ooh and okay, all right, I have to ask you
Speaker 7: answer your question?
Speaker 6: What a question? Sorry, but I'm an analytical type.
Speaker 7: So does it have to be something that I experienced
Speaker 7: myself or can it just be oh, Hank Aaron, Hank
Speaker 7: Aaron and the home run record seven fifty five.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that would be because because because.
Speaker 7: Of what's possible, because of you know, I just remember
Speaker 7: I played baseball as a young man growing up, and
Speaker 7: to have somebody that looked like that in a sport
Speaker 7: that you know, was not is not has not ever
Speaker 7: been dominated by people of color, of black people, specifically.
Speaker 7: You know, Hank Aaron's a home run king that always
Speaker 7: said to me, like you could do it, you know
Speaker 7: what I mean, Like the ceiling of what someone that
Speaker 7: looks like me can accomplish is right. So anyway, I
Speaker 7: learned a little bit about as a young person what
Speaker 7: he went through. As I got older, I did, you know,
Speaker 7: some of my own research and study it. But I
Speaker 7: would say him, I think that the barriers that he
Speaker 7: broke and achieving the ultimate, the highest heights of success
Speaker 7: within that sport and not doing it on a curve,
Speaker 7: not doing it with any caveats needed or necessary like
Speaker 7: that would be that moment seven.
Speaker 6: Moments Because I love sports as you do.
Speaker 1: But yeah, do you're a big sports fan and you
Speaker 1: know you not. You got to me.
Speaker 2: You're experiencing something that every sports fan s dreams about,
Speaker 2: and that is ownership. I mean you you have an
Speaker 2: ownership stake in the Atlanta Falcons, and you know, just
Speaker 2: from my viewpoint, that's the next frontier NFL ownership that
Speaker 2: black folks, you know, really need to We need to
Speaker 2: get one. We need to get one majority owner in
Speaker 2: the NFL, and that has not yet happened. But you
Speaker 2: having this ownership stake in the Falcons, Like, take me
Speaker 2: through the process because this is a very exclusive club.
Speaker 1: So what was the process like for you?
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's huge. I mean it really is. It
Speaker 6: is as cool as it sounds.
Speaker 7: I'm not gonna lie to you, Jay, Like just being
Speaker 7: a sports fan, being somebody with very deep ties to
Speaker 7: Atlanta and to that market. Number One, it doesn't happen
Speaker 7: without me having an advocate and somebody that has power.
Speaker 7: That's something that I want to You can't kind of
Speaker 7: overstate we talk about and understand the power dynamics and
Speaker 7: a culture in a community. You talked about how exclusive
Speaker 7: the club is, especially in the NFL. Right, NFL is
Speaker 7: the biggest of all the sports leagues, and it is
Speaker 7: a very very exclusive club of you know, billionaires, super
Speaker 7: rich billionaires. You can't just have one billion right to
Speaker 7: team and be a majority owner, and so you need
Speaker 7: somebody that's going to advocate for you. And I am
Speaker 7: somebody that's of the belief and it's been my experience
Speaker 7: that the person that advocates for you doesn't have to
Speaker 7: look like you, doesn't have to identify with you, but
Speaker 7: they do have to see value in you. And I
Speaker 7: think it's a two way street in terms of you
Speaker 7: being somebody that presents yourself as someone of value and
Speaker 7: someone that can add value to a relationship, and they
Speaker 7: have to see the importance of having someone like you
Speaker 7: in their world. For me, that person was Arthur Blain,
Speaker 7: and he did not have to do this at all.
Speaker 7: And he brought in last year four for African American
Speaker 7: New African American owners as limited partners of the Atlanta Falcons,
Speaker 7: and I was very, very proud to be one of them.
Speaker 7: I got a call Jay, my right hand for a
Speaker 7: very long time as Sheyla Cowan and Sala runs a
Speaker 7: management division of my company.
Speaker 6: She was my chief staff and she knew somebody.
Speaker 7: This is how these things happen, right, She knew somebody
Speaker 7: that worked in the Obama White House, and she knew
Speaker 7: that person introduced me this person, like you know, years
Speaker 7: ago when Obama's in office, and it was just kind
Speaker 7: of a social relationship.
Speaker 6: And so she.
Speaker 7: Called me and was like you remember blah blah blah.
Speaker 7: I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, what's see up to?
Speaker 6: How's he do it?
Speaker 7: He's like, well, he knows somebody that's got an investment opportunity. Now,
Speaker 7: when you are in the position that I'm in, everybody's
Speaker 7: got an investment opportunity.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 7: If I had a dollar for every investment opportunity that
Speaker 7: was brought to me, I would be running the doge
Speaker 7: of the United States, you know what I'm.
Speaker 6: Saying, Right, So.
Speaker 7: I got this call, and it sounded crazy.
Speaker 6: My eyes rolled first.
Speaker 7: Because she said investment opportunity and then she said, listen,
Speaker 7: I wouldn't bring it to you if it wasn't real.
Speaker 7: But it's the NFL. And I was like, you're talking
Speaker 7: about the National Foodsball League, like prick Fried Legion, Like
Speaker 7: I know, you're not talking about the NFL, right, And
Speaker 7: she was like, yeah, there is somebody who is putting
Speaker 7: together a group to be considered by one of the owners.
Speaker 6: It was all very very top secret.
Speaker 7: I didn't know the team, I didn't know the owner,
Speaker 7: but the question was would you want to be considered?
Speaker 7: And the person putting it together and that name, I
Speaker 7: will say, it's a brother named Derek Hagenes. And Derek
Speaker 7: had worked with the NFL for years behind the scenes.
Speaker 7: He's an attorney and he had consulted with the league
Speaker 7: and he had been trying to advocate for NFL owners
Speaker 7: to diversify their ownership ranks. This is not something they
Speaker 7: have to do, This is not something that they get
Speaker 7: any benefit for doing. This is something that they have
Speaker 7: to see the value in doing and want to do
Speaker 7: on their own. And he had been, you know, honestly
Speaker 7: banging his head against the wall for a very long
Speaker 7: time trying to put a group together. But he had
Speaker 7: one owner that was open to the possibility who had
Speaker 7: considered it before on his own and that owner happened
Speaker 7: to be author black and so I once it was
Speaker 7: explained to me, and I had to sign like seven
Speaker 7: NDA's right even to just get on the list. And
Speaker 7: I did that found out it was a falconus. I
Speaker 7: was like, wow, how apropos is that right? Because I
Speaker 7: got deep Atlanta ties, and you know I was. I
Speaker 7: was one of the one of the brothers down in
Speaker 7: the in the in the Patriots section of the twenty
Speaker 7: eighty three Super Bowl. I was right there with my wife,
Speaker 7: you know what I'm saying, cheering us home. And from
Speaker 7: quarters one through three and a half, it was an
Speaker 7: amazing I mean an amazing time. Boy, that last the
Speaker 7: last half of that fourth quarter and overtime was rough
Speaker 7: on a brother uh and her sister because my wife
Speaker 7: was right there with me, and we couldn't hide because
Speaker 7: it was the only black people with our section. We was
Speaker 7: on the Patriots side. We had been giving it to
Speaker 7: them fans all game twenty eight to three, and when
Speaker 7: old Tom Terrific started doing what Tom Terrific does. We
Speaker 7: tried to shrink inside our little Falcons gear and them
Speaker 7: Boston folks was like, nah, I don't try to hide now,
Speaker 7: you've been talking trash all game. So anyway, so it
Speaker 7: was it's crazy that it was Atlanta foul because it
Speaker 7: was off the blank. And so there was, as you
Speaker 7: could imagine, a larger list, a larger group that was
Speaker 7: vying to be considered.
Speaker 6: And it was a process with all these various steps.
Speaker 7: And here's one thing that I will tell you is
Speaker 7: that the NFL, as we know, is very protective of
Speaker 7: their brand. They don't play about that shield. And so
Speaker 7: the process to be considered because ultimately you have to
Speaker 7: be voted on. The individual owner has to decide to
Speaker 7: accept you and then put you forth for consideration, and
Speaker 7: then all the owners have to vote when you add
Speaker 7: even a limited partner minority on.
Speaker 6: So they go.
Speaker 7: You have to go to a very rigorous vetting process,
Speaker 7: like rigorous, like I was asked during this process about
Speaker 7: you know, social media that I had engaged with ten
Speaker 7: years ago, you know what I mean, and just you know,
Speaker 7: not necessarily like I couldn't have freedom of speech, but
Speaker 7: just asking about some of the things that had, you know,
Speaker 7: been out there. I was asked about like a parking ticket,
Speaker 7: like from fifteen years ago.
Speaker 6: Was like, what who?
Speaker 7: Like the NFL has got some x FBI agents on
Speaker 7: the paywell, you know what I mean, and law enforcement
Speaker 7: types and so they don't mess around. So anyway, each
Speaker 7: stepping away, it got smaller and smaller and smaller in
Speaker 7: terms of the group that was being considered. And ultimately
Speaker 7: there were four of us, and you know I made
Speaker 7: the cut. And it's not charity. I will tell you that, right,
Speaker 7: like you gotta you know, you gotta step up the dollars.
Speaker 7: Not we didn't have to invest black dollars. We had
Speaker 7: to invest US American dollars, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 7: So it's funny because I grew up in Florida and
Speaker 7: Saint Pete and you know, people was like, man, you're
Speaker 7: a Bucks fan. You grew up a Bucks fan. I
Speaker 7: was like, I did grow up a Bucks fan.
Speaker 6: But when you.
Speaker 7: Make a serious investment into a team, guess what ownership
Speaker 7: hits different?
Speaker 6: You know what I mean?
Speaker 7: You start talking about like real resources, like significant portions
Speaker 7: of your net worth.
Speaker 6: I'm a falcons fan. So anyway, it was it was cool.
Speaker 7: It's a blessing and I give I got a lot
Speaker 7: of props Arthur Blank, because it especially in an environment
Speaker 7: where you have people going, you know, why is diversity important.
Speaker 6: It's not, you know, let's ignore it.
Speaker 7: Let's not lift people up based on you know, you know,
Speaker 7: the color their skin or their ethnicity or the fact
Speaker 7: that they bring you know, something different, different perspectives to
Speaker 7: the table.
Speaker 6: I'm somebody in my career.
Speaker 7: Has always benefited from the fact that I have people
Speaker 7: that do have diverse skill sets, abilities, and backgrounds and
Speaker 7: ethnicities and orientations. That is what has made me successful
Speaker 7: throughout my career is that I'm not just hiring people
Speaker 7: from the same club and the same pipeline. But if
Speaker 7: you don't understand that value, then you may be somebody
Speaker 7: that ignores that. But you do it at your own peril.
Speaker 7: And so I give a lot of propers author Blank
Speaker 7: for giving me that opportunity. And so, man, it's been
Speaker 7: it's been cool. Jay, I'm not gonna lie to you,
Speaker 7: Like the season didn't go to where we wanted for
Speaker 7: the Falcons, but but my first year as an NFL
Speaker 7: owner being able to see it behind the scenes. You
Speaker 7: know what's interesting is that I got to see kind
Speaker 7: of the humanity of.
Speaker 6: Sport.
Speaker 7: Right Like, as a fan, you sit on the outside.
Speaker 7: You get mad when your team, you know, doesn't do
Speaker 7: what you want, when the coach doesn't answer a question,
Speaker 7: right when the you know, key player drops the ball.
Speaker 7: When you get to be behind the scenes a little bit,
Speaker 7: you realize that these are people, right Like I would
Speaker 7: go to the press conferences and I would watch Raheem Morris,
Speaker 7: coach of the Falcons, and I would see him like
Speaker 7: after a very very tough loss, I mean like ten
Speaker 7: minutes later, right, you're still sweating from being on the sideline,
Speaker 7: and you got to stay in front of a room
Speaker 7: of people who oftentimes are looking for a SoundBite, and
Speaker 7: you get asked the same question five different ways because
Speaker 7: they just want you to say something provocative that they
Speaker 7: can go run with. And you got to sit there
Speaker 7: and compose yourself and you're dealing with the emotions yourself,
Speaker 7: but you got to be you know, professional and try
Speaker 7: to get the right answer. Just seeing him in a
Speaker 7: way navigated it. Just it opened my eyes to the
Speaker 7: humanity behind this scenes. It ain't just you know, X's
Speaker 7: and olds and fancy football and things people bet on.
Speaker 6: It's human, it's lives, careers as families, all that stuff.
Speaker 2: In fact, so so far, what has been the coolest
Speaker 2: part about being an NFL owner?
Speaker 7: Man, I mean, it's just being an owner, Like that's
Speaker 7: you know, I'm I'm I'm the coolest cat at the
Speaker 7: dinner party, Jamiel. I ain't gonna lie to you, you know
Speaker 7: what I'm saying, Like I can walking everybody who doesn't
Speaker 7: own a team sit over there, you know what I mean.
Speaker 6: Like, it's just it's not a bad flex, right, you
Speaker 6: know I think that it is. Yeah, football fan, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean?
Speaker 7: Being being able to go in the locker room and
Speaker 7: especially after victory and see the energy and and you
Speaker 7: know how everybody you know celebrates and and uh and
Speaker 7: see this this this.
Speaker 6: Bandon brothers all coming together.
Speaker 7: That's cool, you know, being there and being able to
Speaker 7: interact with the fans in a different way, you know
Speaker 7: what I mean. You know, I've always been somebody that
Speaker 7: has aspired to be.
Speaker 6: A shining example of what's possible.
Speaker 7: And so when I spoke to some kids at a
Speaker 7: conference and they were introducing me, and they were talking
Speaker 7: about and he produced this, he producing that, and you know,
Speaker 7: and these were younger kids, and a lot of them
Speaker 7: hadn't necessarily seen all the movies that I've made. But
Speaker 7: then when they mentioned my ownership of the Atlanta Falcons,
Speaker 7: like everybody knew that.
Speaker 6: You know what I mean. And these were a group of.
Speaker 7: Black and brown kids, and they looked up and like,
Speaker 7: you know, you could tell it was the first time
Speaker 7: that they saw somebody that looked like them that was
Speaker 7: able to be in that position. That's the coolest thing
Speaker 7: to show that, you know, we can excel on the grid.
Speaker 7: Is we know that we can excel on the court,
Speaker 7: on the hardwood, we know that we can do anything
Speaker 7: out the athletic but also there are levels to success,
Speaker 7: and so to be somebody that represents a different level
Speaker 7: of success for that next generation.
Speaker 6: Honestly, that's really was the driving.
Speaker 7: Motivation for me to do it, because I wanted to
Speaker 7: be a part of showing folks that look like me
Speaker 7: that we can also excel in the boardroom, in ownership
Speaker 7: groups and at ownership levels like that was important.
Speaker 2: Before I move on and we talk about this wonderful
Speaker 2: new book of yours that that's out, So do you
Speaker 2: think you could have been a partner in a team
Speaker 2: that you don't particularly like, Like if the picture is
Speaker 2: like come.
Speaker 1: On, will like we don't you?
Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7: It's funny because when it came up and we didn't
Speaker 7: know which team it was, my wife and I would
Speaker 7: talk and we were like like, yo, like what if
Speaker 7: it's like some random you know, and listen, it ain't
Speaker 7: but thirty two teams and to get in any of
Speaker 7: them is you know, you're part of points here zero
Speaker 7: one percent. Most people will never had that opportunity. But
Speaker 7: like I wasn't necessarily trying to be like part of
Speaker 7: the Seattle Seahawks, you know what I'm saying, Like I
Speaker 7: live in the Southeast. I don't know a lot of
Speaker 7: people up there, cold and rainey, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 7: you know, I ain't nothing against the Buffalo Bills. They're
Speaker 7: great franchise, but like it's cold man, it's a long way.
Speaker 7: So we talked about that, and I remember thinking because
Speaker 7: the Denver Broncos recently got sold that I remember, you know,
Speaker 7: looking at that group and you had you know, Melody
Speaker 7: Hopson and kind of he's a Rice Lewis Hamilton, right,
Speaker 7: and so I.
Speaker 6: Remember thinking like, man, if we had a chance.
Speaker 7: To be a part of Denver Broncos, we'll be flying
Speaker 7: to the mile High every other week, you know.
Speaker 6: So the answer to the question is, I don't know.
Speaker 6: It is one of those things that.
Speaker 7: It's kind of too awesome an opportunity to pass up
Speaker 7: to be real witch, especially somebody like me who's very
Speaker 7: bitious and thinks about legacy. So I'm just glad it
Speaker 7: was a Falcons put it that way. I'm just glad
Speaker 7: that it was. It was the home team, baby, you
Speaker 7: know what I'm saying. I'm glad that it was who
Speaker 7: it was.
Speaker 2: All Right, let's talk about your new book, Who Better
Speaker 2: Than You The Art of Healthy Arrogance and Dreaming Big?
Speaker 1: Yes, what is healthy arrogance?
Speaker 6: People told me not to put that on the tile
Speaker 6: of my book.
Speaker 7: They say, you gonna put that on the cover because
Speaker 7: it is something that you know, scares people. You think
Speaker 7: about arrogance, You just think about people that have like
Speaker 7: unsubstantiated hubris. Right, And I'm a Hollywood producer. I have
Speaker 7: worked you know, for the last three decades. I've worked
Speaker 7: around some of the most famous, some of the most important,
Speaker 7: powerful passionate also some of the most ego driven and
Speaker 7: toxic people in the world. I have and what I
Speaker 7: have learned, and this was really my motive invasion of
Speaker 7: writing a book, is that those folks that have been very,
Speaker 7: very successful in that industry have a skill set and
Speaker 7: a mindset that's transferable no matter what.
Speaker 6: Industry you want to get into.
Speaker 7: And so when I talk about healthy arrogance, it is
Speaker 7: this confidence.
Speaker 6: And it does not have to be externally loud.
Speaker 7: It's not about walking in the rooms and kicking over
Speaker 7: tables and telling everybody I'm here, look at me right.
Speaker 7: Typically people that are doing that ain't backing it up.
Speaker 7: It is about a belief that I have seen the
Speaker 7: most successful people that I have been around, that they
Speaker 7: have not that they could be successful or that they
Speaker 7: want to be successful.
Speaker 6: It is that they are destined for success.
Speaker 7: That is a mindset that if you're able to adopt,
Speaker 7: it will manifest itself in ways that you don't even realize.
Speaker 7: It changes the way that you walk into those rooms.
Speaker 7: It makes you not think am I supposed to be here?
Speaker 7: Not even think that I might be able to hang
Speaker 7: in this room, But it makes you realize that the
Speaker 7: room is better because you're in it now. To do that,
Speaker 7: you got to have a foundation of a work ethic,
Speaker 7: you gotta have a skill set, you got to be
Speaker 7: bringing something to the table. But the most successful people
Speaker 7: have this confidence, this supreme confidence that they are predestined
Speaker 7: to achieve not just good success, but outside great success.
Speaker 6: You gotta be a little I.
Speaker 7: Was talking to I saw them Will Smith actually, and
Speaker 7: he was talking about something that Quincy Jones said to him.
Speaker 7: And Quincy Jones said, to really succeed in the game,
Speaker 7: you gotta be a little mad, is what he said, right, And.
Speaker 6: So is that wrong?
Speaker 7: You do gotta be a little Craig Craig, but in
Speaker 7: a good way. You got to be crazy about your
Speaker 7: ability and your desire to reach the highest levels of success.
Speaker 7: And even if you don't have it, if you're not
Speaker 7: somebody that innately has that drive, you can get there.
Speaker 7: There are things that you can do to train yourself
Speaker 7: in your mindset to think a certain way, and success
Speaker 7: then begets success.
Speaker 2: What I love about your book is just as we're
Speaker 2: talking right now, that's how I feel when I read
Speaker 2: your book. It's like it's so powerfully written in your voice.
Speaker 2: It's funny, it's smart, it's thoughtful all of those things,
Speaker 2: and you tell great stories. You are a storyteller.
Speaker 1: It's very true.
Speaker 2: I mean, if people don't know from seeing your movies,
Speaker 2: but that you know, all of that translates to your
Speaker 2: book for you.
Speaker 1: Why now? Why did you feel like it was important
Speaker 1: for you to put this out now?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 7: I think the why now is because we live in
Speaker 7: a time where it is the divide in the gap
Speaker 7: between the haves have not, the doers and the do nothings,
Speaker 7: the folks that are achieving their dreams and goals and
Speaker 7: the people that aren't. That gap and that divide is
Speaker 7: bigger than ever. And part of the reason is the
Speaker 7: environment that we live in. I have a lot of
Speaker 7: conversations with our younger you know, brothers and sisters, gen
Speaker 7: z and and you know, they grew up in a
Speaker 7: time of immediate gratification. Right, you push a button, you
Speaker 7: post something, you get a million likes, you get a
Speaker 7: million dollars, you're an influencer, you're rich.
Speaker 6: You can move on. But that's not real.
Speaker 7: And so I realized because I had more people than
Speaker 7: ever coming to me and asking me about mentorship, asking
Speaker 7: me about doing a masterclass, And I said.
Speaker 6: You know what, I have a story to tell.
Speaker 7: I am a storyteller, and the book is a collection
Speaker 7: of stories the things that I've learned from the front
Speaker 7: lines of Hollywood. But it also is something that is
Speaker 7: for people that are just starting out, people who've been
Speaker 7: in the game but ready to pivot, people who have
Speaker 7: been doing something a certain way and are not satisfied
Speaker 7: with the level of success that they've had. And I
Speaker 7: realized that people need to hear that now more than
Speaker 7: ever because the world is more unpredictable than ever, because
Speaker 7: we live in a time and in an environment where
Speaker 7: you have to be able to make sure that your
Speaker 7: network and your foundation is more solid than ever before
Speaker 7: in order for you to achieve success, because you will
Speaker 7: get swept up in a wave of folks that care
Speaker 7: nothing about you, and so you got to make sure
Speaker 7: that you are on the path to success, that you
Speaker 7: were doing what's necessary to achieve everything.
Speaker 6: I mean, the wildest dreams that you want to achieve.
Speaker 2: You know, one of the things that you write a
Speaker 2: lot about in this book, or one of the people
Speaker 2: I should say, is your relationship with Kevin Hart. I
Speaker 2: love that you speak of great affection but also call
Speaker 2: him this Fawn of Satan, which is pretty sad.
Speaker 6: Yes, he is. Both can be true, both.
Speaker 1: Can be true, two things can be true.
Speaker 2: It was and if that is the case, when you
Speaker 2: and Kevin Hart and I just laughed all the way
Speaker 2: through that story of when you all were shooting right along.
Speaker 2: But yet he had this, you know, he had his
Speaker 2: comedy specialist. That's his corn garden. I don't know how
Speaker 2: you kept your cool in.
Speaker 6: The middle of the shoot, Jamel in the middle. It
Speaker 6: was the biggest.
Speaker 7: Movie of both careers. He came up to me, He's like, hey,
Speaker 7: next Friday, I need to get off a little early.
Speaker 7: You know, I'm busy almost Settim.
Speaker 6: In his trailer.
Speaker 7: Okay, all right, well let me check and see what
Speaker 7: we shoot next Friday. I look, oh, Kevin, we shoot
Speaker 7: Friday and Saturday. Remember Saturday? Is that really important day?
Speaker 7: So no, we can't, Like, why what do you need
Speaker 7: with you know what? I didn't realize we shot next Saturday.
Speaker 7: Something told me that he did, but I fell for.
Speaker 6: It at the time.
Speaker 7: I said, well, yeah, we shoot next Saturday. Let me
Speaker 7: see if I get you off early. What what do
Speaker 7: you gotta do?
Speaker 6: You gotta do?
Speaker 7: Host a party or something, He's like, I got a
Speaker 7: comedy show I gotta do. I'm like, listen, brother, you
Speaker 7: gonna have to cancel the comedy show because we got
Speaker 7: a big shoot.
Speaker 6: The next day.
Speaker 7: It's like, yeah, but to send Madison Square Guard Madison
Speaker 7: Square Garden. So you planned a huge comedy show, literally
Speaker 7: your next comedy special, in the middle of our shoot.
Speaker 7: And at that time, Kevin was coming off a Thing
Speaker 7: Like a Man, which I produced right. This was right
Speaker 7: along him ice Cube, the biggest budget and the biggest
Speaker 7: opportunity in his movie career and the biggest budget and
Speaker 7: biggest opportunity in my movie career. So I'm like, brother,
Speaker 7: you couldn't have done this. After we wrapped production, he
Speaker 7: convinced me Jamel to fly with him. He told me, listen,
Speaker 7: I'm gonna go up, I'm gonna do the show. I'm
Speaker 7: gonna come right back right he said, In fact, I
Speaker 7: should have known.
Speaker 1: What black people say.
Speaker 6: Listen.
Speaker 2: It's like when black people say, come rus some errors
Speaker 2: with me real quick. Nine hours later we know yes.
Speaker 7: First first, he hit me with the old black expression.
Speaker 7: You know, I don't ask you for much. You know
Speaker 7: when somebody say they don't ask you for much, they
Speaker 7: asked you for shit all the time, you know that
Speaker 7: they do. He hit me with you know, I don't
Speaker 7: ask you for much. Then he hit me with the yeah,
Speaker 7: come run this errand with me, come with me. That's
Speaker 7: what he said. It was until we got there and
Speaker 7: I found myself in the middle of a New York
Speaker 7: nightclub at an after party that he also didn't tell
Speaker 7: me about, and I'm in there trying to knock bottles
Speaker 7: out of people's hands with Carmelo Anthony running up in
Speaker 7: the section with a bunch of waitresses behind him with
Speaker 7: thirty bottles, like literally everybody in our section had two bottles.
Speaker 7: I'm I'm like this too many bottles. No, thank you,
Speaker 7: mister Anthony. No, we don't need this.
Speaker 6: It's cool. I think that's too many bottles.
Speaker 7: Put that down, Kevin, stop drinking, like I'm trying to
Speaker 7: get out of there, to get back to the private
Speaker 7: jets so we can get back to the shoot on time.
Speaker 6: When I realized in that moment when.
Speaker 7: Carmelo Anthony came in with all these bottles and the
Speaker 7: music turned up, and I looked at Kevin and he goes,
Speaker 7: well we tried.
Speaker 6: When he said well, we tried, you know the scene in.
Speaker 7: Usual Suspects where the detective realizes who kayz Sosee is.
Speaker 6: It was in that moment that I realized this was
Speaker 6: all his plan.
Speaker 7: Because if he leaves set and flies to New York
Speaker 7: do a comedy show and then doesn't get back in time,
Speaker 7: the studio is gonna be pissed off at him, and
Speaker 7: he's gonna have to pay for that. He's gonna be
Speaker 7: in major trouble because he's put the whole shoot in Jeffards.
Speaker 7: But if the producer is with him, and the producer
Speaker 7: and the director, he flew.
Speaker 6: Both of us up.
Speaker 7: If we are there with it, we are completely complicit.
Speaker 6: It's on us.
Speaker 7: I realized in that moment, I said, you evil, evil man.
Speaker 6: You set this whole damn thing up.
Speaker 7: It was all I could do to stop from choking
Speaker 7: my star actor and my short little friend.
Speaker 6: In that moment, it taught me Carmelo Anthony let us
Speaker 6: off the hook.
Speaker 7: I'll still owe Carmelo to this day, because it was
Speaker 7: set up where we wasn't getting out of that club.
Speaker 6: If Mellow didn't say something, you were about to fail.
Speaker 6: We were gonna fail.
Speaker 7: Listen, Mellow was pouring shots, he was like, he was like,
Speaker 7: we turn it up. We gonna die tonight. He literally
Speaker 7: said those words. I was like, Oh God, we can't die,
Speaker 7: not tonight. Let's not die, like, let's die after the movie. Shoot,
Speaker 7: let's die during the playoffs when the kicks ain't gonna
Speaker 7: be there.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 7: He I realized that that moment two things. One, you
Speaker 7: gotta expect the unexpected, right, you really do. You have
Speaker 7: to whatever it is that you're doing. You can't always
Speaker 7: think things are going to go according to plan. And
Speaker 7: as a young producer, I have learned over and over
Speaker 7: again that things will always go wrong. You can't control
Speaker 7: what's going to go wrong, but you can control being
Speaker 7: able to mitigate how much it affects you. The second thing,
Speaker 7: and this is something that we talk about when it
Speaker 7: comes to personal relationships. When somebody shows you who they are,
Speaker 7: you gotta believe right. You've heard that statement before. It
Speaker 7: applies in business as well. When you're in business with
Speaker 7: somebody and you know somebody has a certain predilection, a
Speaker 7: certain personality or perspective, you gotta you're able to kind
Speaker 7: of predict their behavior. I knew Kevin Hart was that
Speaker 7: type of cat. I knew he was a type of
Speaker 7: cat that would wait to the last minute to spring
Speaker 7: on me that he had a big ass comedy show
Speaker 7: with massive square guard. I didn't think about it. I
Speaker 7: let him catch me off guard. He'll never do it again.
Speaker 7: So those are two things that I learned from that
Speaker 7: and I use that to this day. And I'm telling
Speaker 7: people all the time, I don't care what your business,
Speaker 7: you can have to donut shop, expect you unexpected, and
Speaker 7: believe who people are when they show you.
Speaker 2: Well, where I'm also going with this is that when
Speaker 2: you look at a lot of the great directors and producers,
Speaker 2: it's just an actor. They are able to develop a
Speaker 2: certain chemistry with you know, Spike Leans and Sale.
Speaker 1: You have Michael B.
Speaker 2: Jordan and right Ryan Coopler. You and Kevin Hart seem
Speaker 2: to have found that. I mean, Fight Night was exceptional
Speaker 2: such a series.
Speaker 6: Appreciate that great.
Speaker 1: Story, like I really loved it.
Speaker 2: So what is it about your dynamic with Kevin that
Speaker 2: allows you all to produce this high quality work that
Speaker 2: you do.
Speaker 7: Yeah, our work ethics, we have a lot of symmetry.
Speaker 7: We have a symbiotic relationship because I know you know,
Speaker 7: even in that story, the fault of Kevin was that
Speaker 7: he was working too hard and trying to do too
Speaker 7: much right, and so you want that. You don't want
Speaker 7: the person who is lazy and is going to try
Speaker 7: to get away with doing the least, doing the minimum,
Speaker 7: no matter what the environment is. You want to put
Speaker 7: people around you that are aligned with your goals. Kevin
Speaker 7: and I are certainly aligned. He's super talented, right, I
Speaker 7: would never take that away from him, but it is
Speaker 7: his work ethic that sets him apart. A lot of
Speaker 7: people are funny, a lot of people have been able
Speaker 7: to have success in movies. But you're not gonna outwork,
Speaker 7: cav You're just not. That's that's and you're not gonna outwork.
Speaker 7: We'll packer right. And so for me, that is why
Speaker 7: our relationship works the way that it does because I
Speaker 7: know I can depend on him.
Speaker 6: I know he's gonna deliver, and I know whatever I need.
Speaker 7: If I need to go to extra mile, I need
Speaker 7: to work, you know, shoot for eighteen hours straight for
Speaker 7: whatever reason. Like I know he's down, He's gonna give
Speaker 7: me that he is going to work, and so you know,
Speaker 7: I just I always think that you have to make
Speaker 7: sure that the people around you, your team if you're
Speaker 7: giving more energy to your team than they're giving to you,
Speaker 7: you need a new team.
Speaker 6: Right. If you're the most successful, most ambitious, hardest working
Speaker 6: person in your circle, you need a new circle because
Speaker 6: they're not pushing you, you're not getting any better. And
Speaker 6: so we make each other better, Iron Shoppers.
Speaker 7: Iron And with Fight Night, we became each other's most
Speaker 7: frequent collaborators.
Speaker 6: We've done more movies and TV with each other than
Speaker 6: we have with anybody else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as I said, it's a dynamic that definitely shows
Speaker 2: up that we see on screar now.
Speaker 1: As anybody knows from your work wheel, like.
Speaker 2: You are terrific at doing universal stories that are black lid.
Speaker 2: They're not necessarily black stories, or they're universal stories that
Speaker 2: are black lid. And this time where there seems to
Speaker 2: be an assault on all things black, all things black lid.
Speaker 2: On top of that, how has that impacted at all
Speaker 2: with how you navigate the types of stories that you
Speaker 2: want to tell? And for more, I guess more importantly,
Speaker 2: the type of stories that you could get done now
Speaker 2: in this kind of tumultuous time.
Speaker 7: Yeah, listen, here's what I think those types of stories
Speaker 7: DEI efforts to be more inclusionary. Have always been under attack.
Speaker 7: They've always been things that the power structure has fought
Speaker 7: against because power seeds nothing without demand. And so it
Speaker 7: doesn't change what I'm doing. The bar has always been
Speaker 7: the bar for me. If my movies, I don't care
Speaker 7: who's in front of the camera, I don't care how
Speaker 7: important the stories are. If they don't make money, I'm
Speaker 7: not making another That's the reality. And so at the
Speaker 7: end of the day, my job and our job as
Speaker 7: a community is to make sure that we are delivering
Speaker 7: on whatever the quantitative metric is for success in your industry,
Speaker 7: you got to make sure that you're hitting it and
Speaker 7: that you're doing and so in my industry, it is
Speaker 7: box office revenue that you can return how much more
Speaker 7: can you make versus what you spend, And so I
Speaker 7: have to make sure that my projects are hitting those metrics,
Speaker 7: and so I don't change.
Speaker 6: What I'm doing.
Speaker 7: Of course, Hollywood is a reactive industry, and as the
Speaker 7: pendulum of politics and public perception swings back and forth,
Speaker 7: Hollywood reacts to that. Of course, but at the end
Speaker 7: of the day, if I'm somebody that can deliver or
Speaker 7: a bottom line is the economic imperative more than any
Speaker 7: other social or political one that most industries operate under.
Speaker 7: And so what we have to do is make sure
Speaker 7: that we realize.
Speaker 6: This is not new. There's nothing new.
Speaker 7: It's got a different name, right, It's got different figures
Speaker 7: that are touting why diversity is not a good thing.
Speaker 7: But at the end of the day, these are the
Speaker 7: same people that have never genuinely heralded diversity. So if
Speaker 7: you're somebody that believes in diversity, you got to make
Speaker 7: sure that there's a value to it that is undenial.
Speaker 7: You got to make sure that the diversity that you
Speaker 7: are bringing to the table, if it needs to make money,
Speaker 7: is making money because it needs to win awards, is
Speaker 7: winning awards, whatever it is. You cannot rely on somebody
Speaker 7: doing it because it's the right thing to do. So
Speaker 7: you have to position it in a way that it
Speaker 7: is valuable to people so that they can't just easily
Speaker 7: turn it off or turn away. That's what I've been
Speaker 7: able to do in my career.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, aside from the political part of it,
Speaker 2: and I know this just being in la is sort
Speaker 2: of having some you know, connections within the industry with
Speaker 2: even projects that I'm trying to do is the politics aside?
Speaker 3: Though?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think a common play that I hear
Speaker 2: among creators is that now that's sort of the hedge
Speaker 2: fund mentality has moved into movies. It's always been one
Speaker 2: to some degree, but it feels like even now that
Speaker 2: Hollywood is so much more risk averse than they used
Speaker 2: to be. That's why you're getting the nostalgia plays and like,
Speaker 2: you know, this is not to pick on this movie.
Speaker 1: It's got to be I p like all of that.
Speaker 6: So does that what movie where you going to say?
Speaker 2: You say, you don't want to pick on like for example, right,
Speaker 2: this is to sell some merch you could, like you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. And I think I saw that
Speaker 2: Margot Robbie is doing another board game type of show,
Speaker 2: a type of movie as well. So the whole point
Speaker 2: is that I'm wondering, as a creative, though, are you
Speaker 2: feeling more constrain or is your formula enough.
Speaker 1: To kind of weather this kind of time now in Hollywood?
Speaker 1: Because people assumed it was going to be back.
Speaker 2: After the strike, and I've told people it is not back,
Speaker 2: not in the way that people were thinking it would be.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 7: I mean, you work very closely in the media industry
Speaker 7: and so you understand your content creator.
Speaker 6: It's we are definitely.
Speaker 7: In an EBB in Hollywood right now. It's not a flow, right,
Speaker 7: there is a constriction of content. The major media companies
Speaker 7: are making less, right, I don't care what you look like,
Speaker 7: who you are, there's less content being made. So coming
Speaker 7: off of multiple strikes, which were coming off of the
Speaker 7: global pandemic, our industry has been hammered, and that means
Speaker 7: it's been very, very tough for everybody, myself included. I
Speaker 7: don't care how successful you are, everybody's having to deal
Speaker 7: with the challenges of the industry right now. You're absolutely right,
Speaker 7: and so Hollywood's always been risk averse, even more so
Speaker 7: now right the bar is even higher for a project
Speaker 7: to get over the finish line to get a green light.
Speaker 7: As we say, it is very very tough right now.
Speaker 7: So what that means is that you got to have
Speaker 7: a pondrance of elements. You got to have the stars
Speaker 7: and the IP and the built in audience and the
Speaker 7: marketing for consumer product goods, like all those things have
Speaker 7: to line up. Now every project doesn't have that. But
Speaker 7: to be successful and get a project made in this environment,
Speaker 7: you got to have as many of those elements as possible.
Speaker 7: That is true across the board, not just with diverse
Speaker 7: projects or creators of color. Everybody is fighting against that
Speaker 7: right now. It's a cycle, it's an ebb. It will
Speaker 7: flow again, but right now, make no mistake, it's it's
Speaker 7: a tough time in Hollywood. I have a lot of
Speaker 7: peers that are challenged right now because it's so hard
Speaker 7: to get things made. What that means is that if
Speaker 7: you have a connection with an audience and this is
Speaker 7: something else that's transferable beyond just Hollywood. If you have
Speaker 7: a connection with an audience and you can build that,
Speaker 7: that's something that Hollywood and traditional gatekeepers can't control. And
Speaker 7: if you have a way to reach and talk directly
Speaker 7: to your audience. I encourage that next generation of folks
Speaker 7: coming up trying to be content creators. Build your brand,
Speaker 7: build your audience, Build the folks within your network that
Speaker 7: will say, oh, that's a Jamail Hill project. I'm in
Speaker 7: Like whatever she's doing, I want to know about I
Speaker 7: want to be a part of. Focus on that and
Speaker 7: spend as much, if not more energy on building that
Speaker 7: as you are chasing and trying to knock on doors
Speaker 7: of folks that are not letting many people in, letting
Speaker 7: less in than they ever have before.
Speaker 6: So it's tough. It's tough, but you can navigate well.
Speaker 2: I say, maybe as a Hollywood that you can explain
Speaker 2: this to me is that there's more streaming that it
Speaker 2: just doesn't seem like they have enough content, So why
Speaker 2: the restriction is what I want to know is like
Speaker 2: y'all don't have enough, you know, So I guess I
Speaker 2: just don't get like the thought processes that we have
Speaker 2: streamers on streaming, on streaming, like platforms being created, fast channels.
Speaker 2: It's like we're inundated, and yet at the same time,
Speaker 2: it just seems like they don't want to get anything made.
Speaker 1: Like I don't I don't get it.
Speaker 6: You just said it, though, Jay, you just hit on it. Okay.
Speaker 7: You have all these various platforms that the studios invested in, right,
Speaker 7: and they thought.
Speaker 6: That streaming was going to be a profit center.
Speaker 7: So they went out and spent billions with a B
Speaker 7: on Netflix, Disney Plus.
Speaker 6: Max, Peacock, Paramount plus you name it. Right.
Speaker 7: Everybody need to have their own streaming service, and thus
Speaker 7: you needed to feed those streaming services. So you go
Speaker 7: back five years ago, there were a lot of deals
Speaker 7: getting done, a lot of content getting made, and actually
Speaker 7: it oversaturated the market. So when we had those strikes,
Speaker 7: people outside the industry.
Speaker 6: Didn't feel it. They didn't even really care.
Speaker 7: You had two major strikes, the actors and the writers
Speaker 7: not working, pins down, cameras off right, But people didn't
Speaker 7: necessarily feel like, oh man, there's not a new episode
Speaker 7: of Abbot Elementary. What am I gonna do on you know,
Speaker 7: on this primetime weeknight. You know what they did, They
Speaker 7: went to their streaming service and said, you know what,
Speaker 7: I'm about to catch up on the old episodes.
Speaker 6: Of House of Cards, whatever it was.
Speaker 7: Regular people had so much opportunity to consume content, so
Speaker 7: it's not really that they need more now. There actually
Speaker 7: is a little bit of a thinning out process that
Speaker 7: is happening because so much was made and consumers, who
Speaker 7: ultimately consumers are the one that control what Hollywood and
Speaker 7: every the other industry does. If consumers want it and
Speaker 7: they want more, they will make more. But right now,
Speaker 7: because there are so many options and so many streaming
Speaker 7: service can whatever you're into, you can find it.
Speaker 6: You can find I don't care how.
Speaker 7: Niche or outside the normal or traditional stream it is,
Speaker 7: you can find it somebody's making. Right, until we get
Speaker 7: to a point where people are genuinely looking for new content,
Speaker 7: and I don't mean just new episodes of your favorite show,
Speaker 7: but I mean new original content. Until that appetite picks
Speaker 7: back up, you're going to see the media companies pulling back.
Speaker 7: Because here's the dirty secret that not a lot of
Speaker 7: people like to talk about. During those strikes, while actors
Speaker 7: were hurting and writers were hurting, and producers were hurting,
Speaker 7: and directors were hurting, and grips and electrics and all
Speaker 7: the craft services people who feel this industry were hurting,
Speaker 7: the media companies actually had some of them some of
Speaker 7: their best years ever because they weren't spending money on
Speaker 7: new content, but their old content was still making money
Speaker 7: because people didn't stop subscribing to their favorite streaming services.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 7: And so that's the dynamic that you have to really
Speaker 7: kind of drill into, is the economics of the business
Speaker 7: right now are such that the media companies don't have
Speaker 7: to go out and spend more. They're not making what
Speaker 7: they thought they were going to make on streaming, and
Speaker 7: so folks like you and I it's much tougher for
Speaker 7: us to get our content. Mate, that's a little more
Speaker 7: inside baseball maybe than we wanted to go.
Speaker 1: But that makes a lot.
Speaker 2: Of sense because when you have because during the pandemic,
Speaker 2: me and Van Lathan we did rewatch podcasts of The Wire, right.
Speaker 1: The Wire was one of the most watched series during.
Speaker 2: The pandemic Because to your point, people are catching up
Speaker 2: a whole stuff.
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, I've never watched this.
Speaker 2: It's why Suits just suddenly exploded all over again, like
Speaker 2: it just came out.
Speaker 1: And when that happens.
Speaker 2: While I'm certainly happy that it does for those involved
Speaker 2: with the projects, but that's not new material. So like,
Speaker 2: that's right, what's the incentive the right new material if
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna go back and watch something that they
Speaker 2: did ten or fifteen years ago.
Speaker 7: So you guys, the rights holder of suits is making
Speaker 7: money and they don't have to go out and make
Speaker 7: the new suits right because audiences are satiated, and so
Speaker 7: that's that's that's the dynamic that folks like us have
Speaker 7: to balance, all right.
Speaker 2: So I know your time is short, and before I
Speaker 2: get you out of here, I like that in the
Speaker 2: podcast by asking every guest, what I call a messy question.
Speaker 1: Let's get into some trouble that create.
Speaker 6: We were doing good. I know, we were doing so good.
Speaker 6: Here this is where it's gonna go bad.
Speaker 7: We had an amazing conversation and this is the one
Speaker 7: right here where I'm an mess up.
Speaker 6: Let me tell you that this is where it goes bad.
Speaker 6: All right.
Speaker 2: So the messy question is this, What if you had
Speaker 2: to pick one, You could only pick one of these,
Speaker 2: all right? Would you rather have an Oscars win or
Speaker 2: a Falcon's Super Bowl victory.
Speaker 7: You gotta pick the super Bowl, Falcon super Bowl. I'm
Speaker 7: like Lincoln, I'm taking super Bowl. Baby, I'm taking these
Speaker 7: super Bowl, I'm taking super Bowl.
Speaker 6: I'm taking it.
Speaker 1: Listen, honey, how change the situation?
Speaker 6: Listen, I'm an investor.
Speaker 7: You know you know what that super Bowl win gonna
Speaker 7: do to the value of the balcony. You know what
Speaker 7: it is to see a city like Atlanta city that
Speaker 7: I love, a super Bowl being brought to that city.
Speaker 7: You see what it does, how it lifts the whole
Speaker 7: community up in a way. A oscar is so much
Speaker 7: more of an individual thing, and I would love it,
Speaker 7: and I would, you know, love.
Speaker 6: It for my own legacy.
Speaker 7: But I've done okay at Hollywood, right, I still got
Speaker 7: a little PTSD from them.
Speaker 6: Damn Oscars if you want to know the truth.
Speaker 7: Right, we didn't go there, But I would say that
Speaker 7: super Bowl because that's something that everybody could enjoy. It's
Speaker 7: a totally new area for me, and I just can't
Speaker 7: a made the city of it like you think. Y'all
Speaker 7: don't like them, damn cheeks. You think you kind of
Speaker 7: Kansas City at old swag surface tailor swift. Let me
Speaker 7: tell you, so you let these Falcons win a Super Bowl,
Speaker 7: y'all are going hate I mean hate the eight Yeah,
Speaker 7: because you know we show it all the way out.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't expect anything less. Well, will thank you so
Speaker 2: much for joining me. I really appreciate it. And everybody
Speaker 2: out there, make sure that you buy Wheel's You book.
Speaker 2: It's really fun, thoughtful read. As I said, quick read
Speaker 2: to which you know that you definitely wrote to today's
Speaker 2: attention span generation right or lack of say. Book is
Speaker 2: called who Better Than You? The art a healthy arrogance
Speaker 2: and dreaming big. So make sure that you cop that
Speaker 2: and good luck will. Maybe one of these days we
Speaker 2: might see that Girl's Trip.
Speaker 6: I'm working on it. I'm working on it.
Speaker 7: I just said it's a tough content environment.
Speaker 6: Did you hear me say that it's hard. It's hard
Speaker 6: out here?
Speaker 1: Over one hundred million dollars.
Speaker 6: This is yes? Ever, Okay, you're right, You're right. I'm
Speaker 6: on it. That it is not on the studios. That
Speaker 6: one is on my team. We work, If we work,
Speaker 6: we try to make it happen. It's hard.
Speaker 1: You get them together.
Speaker 6: Man, Yes, I've wrought it. I wrote it. I got you.
Speaker 7: I appreciate you, Laddy, thanks for giving me some time.
Speaker 7: I appreciate Okay, all right, Sis, one.
Speaker 1: More segment to go, and you guys know what that means.
Speaker 2: I got questions to answer up next, your viewer slash
Speaker 2: listener questions, and I have plenty of answers coming up
Speaker 2: next on the final segment of Spola Dips. All right, everybody,
Speaker 2: before I wrap up another episode of Politics, time for
Speaker 2: me to answer a question from you.
Speaker 1: And this question comes from Instagram.
Speaker 2: Baraka Ali sixty sixty one asked given analysis of title nain. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm going to assume this question is related to the
Speaker 2: Trump administration's recent announcement that it was reversing guidance from
Speaker 2: former President Joe Biden, who in the final days of
Speaker 2: his presidency, instructed schools to quote proportionally distribute name, image,
Speaker 2: and likeness payments between male and female athletes to comply
Speaker 2: with Title nine, the federal legislation adopted in nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: two that prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex educational
Speaker 2: institutions that receive federal funds. Now, if you're wondering what
Speaker 2: has nil money got to do with Title nine, it's
Speaker 2: this This bring a federal judge is expected to finally
Speaker 2: approve a multi billion dollar class action settlement that will
Speaker 2: completely transform college sports. The House versus NCAA settlement will
Speaker 2: give college athletes who competed from twenty sixteen to twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one back pay since they were unable to financially
Speaker 2: capitalize on nil at the time. Colleges are deciding whether
Speaker 2: to opt into the settlement to directly share revenue with players,
Speaker 2: which is expected to amount to about twenty million per
Speaker 2: Power four or five schools. But some schools are choosing
Speaker 2: to opt out because they don't want to take part
Speaker 2: of a revenue sharing system with players.
Speaker 1: So what does this mean? For female athletes.
Speaker 2: Well a means schools can just funnel the majority of
Speaker 2: the money from the settlement to men's basketball and college football. Now,
Speaker 2: some of your proper thinking, well it should be that
Speaker 2: way anyways, it's those two make a lot of money.
Speaker 1: Well, here's some food for thought.
Speaker 2: Maybe the reason these two sports have become worth a
Speaker 2: billion dollars or more is because the NCAA has frankly
Speaker 2: spent decades pouring money and.
Speaker 1: Resources into these sports.
Speaker 2: Now, the Government Accountability Office did a Title nine study
Speaker 2: last year and found that the NCAA made a conscious,
Speaker 2: concerted effort to place their full support behind men's basketball
Speaker 2: and the men's basketball tournament.
Speaker 1: And this was long before.
Speaker 2: Men's basketball became a billion dollar business. Now, these new
Speaker 2: directives from the Trump administration could have a damning effect
Speaker 2: on women's sports. Now that schools have been told they
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about providing equal support women's basketball, softball, volleyball,
Speaker 2: those are exploding in popularity. But let's not also forget
Speaker 2: the Olympics, where if the American women who competed in
Speaker 2: the Olympics last summer in pairs were their own country,
Speaker 2: they would have finished third among all nations. When sports
Speaker 2: like swimming, gymnastics, soccer, and track and field start suffering at.
Speaker 1: The college level, that will show up in the Olympics.
Speaker 6: Take note.
Speaker 2: Thank you Baraka Ali six to six to one for
Speaker 2: your question. Now, if you have a question for me,
Speaker 2: you can hit me up on social media or email.
Speaker 2: I'm at Jamail Hill across all social media platforms Twitter, Instagram,
Speaker 2: blues Guide and Threads, also fan Base, which I recently joined.
Speaker 2: Please use the hashtags politics. You also have the option
Speaker 2: of emailing me as Politics twenty twenty four at gmail
Speaker 2: dot com. You can also send me a video of
Speaker 2: your question, but please make sure it's thirty seconds or less.
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Speaker 2: your host, Jamail Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoin. Lucas
Speaker 2: Hyman is head of audio and executive producer. Original music
Speaker 2: First Politics provided by Kyle VISs from wiz FX