WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 205 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:03.080 Also media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.760 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.400 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.719 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:24.960 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.640 Hey, what's up? And welcome to it could happen here. 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.800 I'm Andrew Siege, I'm Andrew's I'm on YouTube, and I'm 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:37.519 joined by James. 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:37.879 It's me. 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:40.240 It's nice to be back with you, Andrew once again. 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:40.960 Yeah. 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:46.440 Indeed, indeed in a time of poly crisis, unfortunately, Yeah, 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.760 the Hoesen crisis. People are pretty familiar with the lack 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:51.960 of affordability of hoes in the way that hosen has 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.400 been speculated upon, you know, the way that more and 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:58.320 more people are finance difficult to get something as simple 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:04.560 as shelter. Yeah, and it's particularly generational, right. 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:09.360 Yeah, Yeah, Like I don't generally love generational discourse, but 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:14.280 it is a marked difference for our generation compared to 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:17.960 the previous generation in terms of Yeah, housing security. 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:20.440 The data bears it out in terms of the age 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.199 at which people of previous generations were able to get 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:27.280 house in versus you know what millennials and our gen 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.720 z are dealing with there housing is concerned. Yeah, absolutely, 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:32.880 And then on top of that, we'll also lacking a 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.960 lot of public spaces, places to gather, places to reflect 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:43.160 the socialized game, to explore, to interact, to discuss. Land 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.880 and housing and social spaces are really what at the 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.640 heart of human survival. You know, we speak of the 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:55.560 hearth as in that space where you know, humans were gathering. Yeah, 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.760 but unfortunately that that ownership of that space has been 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:02.160 concentrated in hands of a few people, you know, ritually 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:08.359 EAT's and corporations, estate, and some cases still literal aristocracies. Yeah, 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:10.760 I'm sure you're you're very much familiar with that. 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.200 Oh yeah, just thinking about like the land I grew 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.280 up on for people who were not privy to Andrew 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:18.560 and I talking before the show. I just spent some 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:21.880 time with the gwitch in people like in the very 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:25.240 north of Alaska there, just in the sub Arctic, and 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.160 someone was asking me like about like how I related 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:30.640 to my ancestral land. I was thinking about it, Like, 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:33.640 the village I grew up in was entirely owned by 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:36.080 one family. They owned our house, in every other house, 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.079 and my dad worked for them, and so did almost 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:43.480 everyone else who lived there. Like, wow, an extremely feudal relationship. 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:48.760 Yeah, that's unfortunately the experience of a lot of people 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:55.359 through human history, or the extra experience of landlessness or homelessness. Well, 0:02:55.400 --> 0:03:00.359 homelessness is relatively recent, yeah, all things considered, but or 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.400 paying extortion in rents, which a lot of people unfortunately 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:08.960 would have experienced throughout that feuderal period into a capitalism. 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:09.120 Yeah, definitely. 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.880 But the thing is, for as long as humans have 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:16.280 been humans, long before the states existed, and long after 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.240 the states existed, people are going to stay where they 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:21.040 want to stay. They're going to be where they want 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.400 to be, right and at those take a couple all 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.320 these laws and restrictions and property rights, all these things 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:31.280 and criminalize a very natural human inclination, people are still 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.920 going to do it right. And that's thing that people 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:39.720 do is now known as squatting. Right, But it wasn't 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:45.000 always so chastised and criminalized with that terminology before it 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.640 was just you know, you find a piece of land, 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:49.880 nobody else is living there, you go in and use that 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:54.800 piece of land to survive. So today we'll be talking 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.440 about issues with land ownership, looking into its history as 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.520 a resistance practice in England, and seeing where a politicized 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:06.000 approach to squadron could take us in the future. Oh cool, 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.640 Crime thinks article on squatron was really helpful for this, 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:14.040 so I'll link it in the show notes. Land ownership 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:18.040 and governance are inextricably linked. Private property and land then 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:24.440 the mooge out of peaceful agreements, but violence, wars of conquest, colonialism, slavery, 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.839 and steed repression have been the true foundation of these 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:32.400 now considered noble and official property titles. What we call 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:36.919 ownership today is just violence legitimized by law, and it 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:41.040 follows a very similar structure whether you're talking about feudalism 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:46.599 and empire, land inclosure, colonization. Your start of the violence, 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:51.599 it becomes officialized and then rent is extracted. This is 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.360 not something that people took line down. Of course, people 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.440 have long resisted it, you know, But this is why 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:02.000 the government responds with the police and the armies to 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:07.359 protect the landlords, and the people have criticized and have 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:13.120 called out these practices. Thinkers like Ricardo Flores Margon and 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:17.960 Alexander Berkmann, peterco Potkin mcunan. All of these hammered home 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.839 the point of the absurdity at the heart of land ownership, 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.880 the idea that some of they could just pull up somewhere, 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:30.640 claim an area of land as theirs, and back it 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:36.359 by soldiers and pieces of paper. Now, anarchists not in 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.720 the business of fixating on just one system of domination 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.360 or the other, because they're very connected. You know, landlords 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.520 and governments and all the other authorities contribute to the 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:49.080 system of domination that we all live under. Assander's core 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:51.760 rights in anarchists squat in and land use. In the West, 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.960 land ownership and government use exploitation and manipulation in a 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.799 similar manner. Where a landowner builds a fence, the government erects. 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:04.719 Where land owner charges rent, a government levies taxes. Were 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:08.600 landowner advertises a vacant house sas not to waste it 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:12.240 as an income producer. In property, a government encourages migration 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.600 to those of its territories which are not producing adequate revenue. 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:20.200 We are landowner evict a tenant, a government wages war 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.880 against the population. Right now, in the United States, as 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.919 we can see, the government is asian war not only 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.800 against its indigenous population, its black population, but also it's 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:36.360 migrant population and a few other populations. The list unfortunately 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:36.960 goes on. 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.280 Yeah, like the two are so tied, right that, Like 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:44.719 in many parts of the United Kingdom, like as it 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.880 was moving towards, like before we had a universal franchise 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:49.919 right where people could vote if it were citizens, and 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.880 over a certain age, they had a property owner franchise right, 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:55.920 like if you owned land, you could vote, and if 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:56.640 you didn't then you. 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:00.920 Couldn't landed voting. Yes, yeah, and a sense that is 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.360 still reflected in the way that the government operates today. 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:08.120 You know, the landowners, the capitalists, they still have far 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:13.160 outsized influence with anyone else, considering the laws and the 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.680 policies that our governments carry out. 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:17.120 Yeah. 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.520 Absolutely, And this is really get into the heart of it, 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.160 because you know, we may have had the abolition of 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:26.480 slavery and the abolition of selfdom, but in no way 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.080 that the formal abolition of those things end exploitation at all. 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:34.280 It has continued in new and old forms. You know, 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.080 without the police and armies and laws propping them up, 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:42.800 private property would collapse. But those things still exist, and 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:47.960 it is through those things that the power to exclude, extract, 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:53.440 and dominate continues throughout our society and continues to uphold 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:57.000 violence throughout her society. You know, slavery may have been 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:00.600 formally abolished, but we still find it in the prison system. 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.800 So if they may have been formally abolished, but we 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:08.040 still find it in slightly different forms with debt and 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.600 the way that people are tied on by debt, and 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.320 as long as that principle of extraction and exploitation and 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.480 and rent is not dealt with, we will continue to 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:20.080 see new forms and old forms bringing up. 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:32.840 Yeah, I'm going to play the devil's advocate for a moment, 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:33.920 right and. 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.040 See that Maybe you know, the problem is just the 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:41.160 violence of its origins, the problem with land ownership and property. 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.839 If it just came from violent origins and no other 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.640 violence continued, maybe it could be excused. Maybe we could say, okay, 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.760 well that's in the past and we can do stuff 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.360 about that, but we could leave the system as it is. 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.040 But the violence didn't stop with the way that the 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:01.000 system originated. The violence continues, you know, as and as 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:05.240 Core notes called ownership is enforced through eviction. You know, 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:08.880 families are thrown out of homes, squatters beaten back by police, 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:13.400 villagers raised to expand mining operations, et cetera. Yeah, and 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.680 then these economic theft and cultural destruction involved as well, 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.960 you know, because communities are uprooted and digest traditions are severed, 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.839 neighborhood cultures getting raised by gentrification. And then all this 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:28.520 dispossession drives unemployment because without access to land, people are 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.680 forced into wage labor on the terms of capitalists. This 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.120 is really how that rapid period of industrialization got started, 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.319 you know, with the enclosure of the commons. 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.960 Yeah, it's just thinking about that. With the folks are 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:44.760 with with right there. Their lifestyle is to hunt caribou. 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:47.959 That is how they've lived for twenty thousand years. They 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.679 also fish for salmon, but there are still some there 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.360 are a fewer salmon due to climate change and the 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.600 downstream effects of that. Right, But like they have their 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.760 own land, a large portion of land. But it's the 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.520 fact that someone in this case a Trump administration, could 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:07.520 lease oil rights in other land which would directly impact 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:11.079 their land. Because in this case, the Caribou can't carve 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:13.800 if there are oil wells where they want to have 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.200 their carves, right yeah. And so like it's not just 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.080 that them having some land of their own does not 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:23.439 provide a solution to the issue, which is that people can, 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:28.360 under our current system own exploit and destroy a resource 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:29.280 that should be common. 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:33.400 I mean, it really highlights the absurd notion that you 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.400 can just cut up land, right, yeah, exactly, but you 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.040 can separate it by by boundaries and that its self 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.880 contained and that we all the land and wars on 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:46.000 the earth is connected, yeah, through all the cycles and systems. 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.040 There's one big biosphere. Right. 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.720 The damage done in one place will have an impact 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:55.000 on another place. And I mean that's so very obvious 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.880 to most of us now, but that our system of 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:03.400 land ownership ignores that, pretend it doesn't happen, right yeah. 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.960 Yeah. Instead, we're upholding this ridiculous notion that you can 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:12.920 maintain exclusive lordship, literal land lordship over a couple of 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.760 acres of property and just do whatever you want with 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:17.600 it because it's under your name. 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.920 Right yeah, And that's that's your problem, because it's your land, 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:26.200 and it's ludicrous, it's completely ridiculous to make that claim. 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.240 Yeah, And on top of all of these consequences, you know, 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.320 we're also dealing with poverty and hunger because when people 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:36.559 are producing lots of food, rent and mortgages continue to 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.000 keep people in a permanent state of paying just to exist. 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:40.560 Yeah. 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:43.600 Right, And then this concentrated ownership of land and of 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:49.240 property produces inefficient production and environmental degradation because property ends 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:53.560 upsitting idle or was used to speculate, even though millions 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.280 of people are in need of that land are starving 0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.559 as a result of lack of access to that land. 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:01.079 Yeah. 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.640 Also, because so much land gets traded around as assets, 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:09.400 as property, rather than it being what it is, which 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.840 is our commonwealth, there's no need for the owner at 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.560 the point in time to really care about, you know, 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.679 the quality of the soil, the impact on the ecosystems. 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.720 They don't have to. All they're concerning is their only 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:24.880 need is to concern themselves with profit. 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.520 Right, Like, it's an asset to be traded, not a 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.440 thing that has inherent value and should be protected not 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:35.839 just because of its economic value, but because it's all 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.520 that we can leave future generations. 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:41.480 Right exactly, And I mean With all these issues of 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:43.880 the land in mind, I think we can talk now 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:49.200 about how people have resisted, particularly in England. Yeah, which 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.400 is really why I want to talk to you in 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:52.800 particular with this episode. 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.440 Yeah, okay, I'm excited to hear which which particular ifing 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:57.199 you want to talk about. 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:03.360 I mean, the story can begin in the first century, yeah, right, 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.640 with the British tribes resisting the expansion of the Roman Empire. 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:07.559 Yeah. 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.679 We could also speak about the Diggers of the seventeenth 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:15.280 century in England in massacred for trying to reclaim common Land. 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:16.160 Yeah. 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.960 England has a very long history of land struggles. 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.079 Yeah, definitely, and it's completely or it's not lost to 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.920 us now people have reclaimed, especially that the diggers, right, 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:29.840 but there are still commons to an extent, but they're 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.480 nothing like what they were, right, Like, you can go 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:34.400 to Clapham Common and just get great as a sheep 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:38.000 if you wanted to. And it's really sad that we've 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:41.840 lost that. We've completely as a nation like accepted that 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:43.880 land is the thing that people can only shouldn't just 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:44.640 be for everyone. 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:49.679 Yeah, I mean I kind of see how that would 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.240 get to the extent that it did. Because you know, 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.520 it was the capital of the British Empire and in 0:13:55.520 --> 0:14:00.960 many wes, the British Isles was the laboratory where that 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.439 sort of experimentation with the control of people and land 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.360 got started and was then able to expand elsewhere. 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:09.880 Yeah, very much. So yeah. 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.000 So, I mean, there's a long timeline that we could 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.160 go through, but I really want to focus on the 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.079 all the ways the people have been squatting in England 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.240 over the twentieth century. You know, after the Second World 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.520 War it's no surprise anyone that Britain was going through it. 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:28.720 Whole neighborhoods were flattened, housing stock was in ruins, and 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.600 for the six years while the bombs were fallen, not 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:36.000 a single new home was built. So people took matters 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.480 into their own hands. You know. Across the country, families 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:41.800 and veterans began to squat because they came home from 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.760 the war and they had nowhere to live. In Brighton, 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:49.360 a group of ex servicemen call themselves Virgilantes, led by 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:53.840 the legendary Harry Cowley, started cracking houses for families. The 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:58.520 spirit of it eventually spread like wildfire and abandoned army 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:03.120 camps which were once beent for miolition soon became makeshift neighborhoods. 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.760 By nineteen forty six, over forty five thousand people were 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.680 squatted in more than a thousand locations, and I mean 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:14.360 the government was concerned this could only lead to anarchy, 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.120 but faced with tens of thousands of people who had 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.240 self frehoused, the state didn't really have any choice but 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.040 to step back, right, you know, direct actions solved an 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:29.160 issue that their bureaucracy couldn't solve, and the pr of 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.080 kicking out a bunch of veterans from homes was not 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.000 a line they seemed willing to cross at that point 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.480 in time. Was times changed, but yeah. 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:40.680 They wouldn't have any fear of doing that. 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:41.040 Now. 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.200 It is only English that were squat in in the UK. 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.720 You know, you also had Bangladeshi immigrants that end up 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.800 coming into the UK, particularly around the nineteen seventies, and 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:57.360 the issue was that single men couldn't get council housing 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.680 unless they had a family, but they could bring their 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:05.000 families over into the UK without housing, so it's like 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.840 a cash twenty two. They had all these rows of 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:14.240 council flats sitting empty, rotten, and young men who wanted 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.360 to bring their families over, can't bring their families over, 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.000 can't get housing, what are they gonna do? They end 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:25.520 up squatting. Right, Organizers like Terry Fitzpatrick, working with groups 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.880 like Race Today and later the Bengali House and Action Group, 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:34.240 opened up derelict blocks to Bengali families. Pelham House, for instance, 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.720 which was slated for demolition, was transformed into homes for 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.480 three hundred people by the end of nineteen seventy six. 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:43.720 Over one thousand Bangladeshis ended up living in East End 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.960 squads during that period, and eventually, through that taking that 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.240 full step of direct action, they won. By the early 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:56.000 nineteen eighties, the council caved, rehoused the squatters locally and 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:58.160 they ended up getting to live right where they wanted 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.680 to live. But unfortunately, as you might expect, this came 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:06.800 with racist violence. In nineteen seventy eight, altub Ali was 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:10.880 stabbed to death by three skinheads in Whitechapel and there's 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:14.360 now a park that was renamed in his memory, where 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.320 the history of his people can be remembered and live on. 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.439 Beyond the English Sandi Bangladeshi immigrants, you also had another 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.840 marginalized group that took on the tactic of squatter in Brixton. 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:30.560 The Gay Liberation Front took over houses along Rilton Road 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.600 and Mile Road, creating a network of communal homes which 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:40.360 shared the gardens, and as you can imagine in the seventies, 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:46.760 eighties and nineties, you know, this was really a refuge, 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:51.320 you know, for queer people dealing with isolation and hostility 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.679 from their families, from their communities. These squats ended up 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.879 becoming places where they can find love and solidarity and 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:02.480 theater and radical politics. Raylton Road was also home to 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.920 black radicalism and black radicals squat in in that territory. 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.119 Ol of Morris and Liz Obi's squatted in the nineteen 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:15.119 seventies and resisted multiple eviction attempts and their space evolved 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.240 into Sabah Bookshop and later the anarchist one two one Center, 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:23.639 which lasted until nineteen ninety nine. Now, this intersection of 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:28.400 black queer and squatron created Brixton's reputation as a frontline 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:33.560 of resistance police harassment, racist violence, and neglect would boil 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.840 over into days of rioting in Brixton in nineteen eighty one, 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.320 and amidst that chaos, the Gay squats of Realton threw 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.320 open their doors, even dragon tables and chairs into the 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.600 streets for a kind of riot party, a mix of 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:51.000 drag and defiance. And through all this these squats allow 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.679 people to survive. They became places where people could experiment 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:59.560 with alternative living, even had some people declaring independence. There's 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.720 a space in West London called Frestonia which is sued 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:04.719 to own stamps and had a two year old as 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.840 Minister of Education. Yeah, and then you had other squads 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:12.480 ended up becoming seeds for future cooperatives and social centers 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.840 and even some businesses for this goal and age of 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.320 squat and kind of came into a decline by the 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:22.680 nineties and two thousand sons gentrification and new laws had 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:26.399 to tighten the screws. You know, streets like Barrington Square 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:30.240 or Saint Agnes's Place which were once thriving squatted communities 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.399 were cleared up. You know, the law was changed to 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:37.680 make could unquote adverse possession harder, so long term squatters 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:41.720 could no longer as easily claim ownership. And then sitting 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.800 councils like Lambeth Council began selling off properties that it 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.480 had ignored for decades. Evicting people who have been living 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:50.359 there for decades, raising families. 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.240 Yeah, I guess post Thatcher, like when they could sell 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.199 off the council houses like that massively contributed to the 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:01.600 decline of working class communities, right, and then Britain went 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:06.240 through this extreme neoliberal turn in the late nineties with 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.159 like New Labor and Labour's entire thing came to be 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.360 punching down on the young people in the working class. 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.639 So like it lines up with our general political. 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:18.159 Like that. 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.520 I was a teenager at that time, right, I remember 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:24.520 how bleak it felt to be, like all the time 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.040 getting this like oh cool britann you know, you know, 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:31.120 like Britain is having its like renaissance as this like 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:34.920 like like outside of empire, like as a cultural capital 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:37.199 or whatever. Meanwhile people are struggling to get by and 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.720 people fighting it hard to put food on their table. 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:43.960 It was just such a I mean, looking back, it 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:45.200 was the way things were going to be for the 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:47.240 rest of my life, at least up to now, I guess. 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:49.159 But at the time I remember it being such a 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.120 jarring experience. 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:56.919 Yeah, that's it's quite an interesting quote unquote end of history, right. 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:01.840 Yeah, right, yeah, it's just the the end of caring. 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:05.199 Like it was just such a yeah to be to 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:10.240 be told that we'd like perfected human existence. Meanwhile, racialized 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.480 violence was on the increase, right, Like people were struggling. 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:16.240 We like had become more connected and aware of each 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:18.840 other struggles. Like we could see people around the world, 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:23.440 not just in the UK struggling, right. We saw the 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:27.040 communities that like my parents grew up in, just gut 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:31.720 it by the withdrawal of the failure of the industries 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.879 that were there before. The whole town's with like no 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:38.800 reason for existing anymore. And then to come on top 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.120 of that and have like, oh yeah, but it will 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.160 cost you more just to exist in this town which 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.880 is shit now and there's nothing to do, but we're 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:47.679 going to use all the power of the state to 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:49.560 try and extract every penny that you have. 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:51.399 Lets just squeeze everything out of you. 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:57.639 Yeah, just a bleak vision going home now. I just 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:01.480 see the continuation of that decline line of like some 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.119 of those towns you know where there's no particular reason 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:05.880 for people to live there, and it's where they're from 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:07.960 and it's where their community is. But it's getting harder 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:09.680 and harder for them to live there. And you know, 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.199 the industries that used to at least give people a 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:16.960 chance to like have a dignified life there are now gone. 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:21.959 Get the ability of land laws to extract you know, 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:25.520 mega landlords now right, These giant corporations building these generic 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:29.320 homes all over the UK. It's still very much there, 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.520 and the state has doubled down on supporting them and 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:36.399 completely refuse to support its own people. 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:49.879 Yep, in London, as and else where, the state and 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:54.880 the capitalist market of hand in hand to really eraase 0:22:55.800 --> 0:23:00.920 our autonomy, our independence, our ability to live and to value. Yeah, 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:04.119 you know, ivan as places like Berlin and Amsterdam and 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:09.919 Copenhagen had some leaps forward where Squadron was concerned, you know, 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:14.160 legalized housing cooperatives and that sort of thing. Particularly in London, 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:17.800 that was the opposite of the case. You know, things 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:18.720 got harder. 0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:22.440 Yeah, Like Britain led the charge in like this kind 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:26.920 of particularly cruel and callous neoliberalism right from the from 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:31.280 the nineties to today, like with absolutely no concern for 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:34.000 the well being of its people. Even Yeah, you would 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:38.639 see it going to continental Europe, you know, compared to 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:43.320 living in Barcelona, which I did later, like squad still existed. 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:47.680 People economically things were equally dire, right, if not worse. 0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:49.600 Spain had a really rough time as fifty off two 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:54.240 thousand and eight, but like the communities hadn't been quite 0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:56.920 so destroyed by the state as they were in many 0:23:56.960 --> 0:23:57.880 areas of the UK. 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:02.040 Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't want to paint a 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:06.720 completely dark picture of London, right because there is still 0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:10.400 and I can struggle, there's still radical social centers. They're 0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:13.000 still yeah, yeah, squat, and I mean some squads end 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:16.920 up being temporary, you know, short lived social spaces and centers. 0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:22.959 Speceis to help organize or to protest or to you know, 0:24:23.000 --> 0:24:24.040 create comment culture. 0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:29.359 But yeah, like it's not Yeah, I mean I've made 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:31.480 London sound like some kind of like blade renal thing, 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:33.880 which is not by any mean that I've not spent 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:35.840 a great deal of my life in London. It's too 0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:38.520 much city for me, that's fair. But I do, like 0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:41.879 I enjoy visiting friends and their projects there and that 0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:45.480 kind of thing. And I think even post COVID there's 0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:49.359 been some resurgence. It's difficult. I don't want to suggest 0:24:49.400 --> 0:24:51.600 that things are not still extremely difficult for people trying 0:24:51.640 --> 0:24:53.159 to make it ends to meet because they are. But 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:55.719 like people are aware of the concept of mutual aid 0:24:55.760 --> 0:24:59.080 who may not have been before, and that's been good. Yeah, 0:24:59.119 --> 0:25:02.040 there's still our squad to struggle. There is still people 0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:04.639 fighting very hard to like live a dignified life and 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:06.200 secure that for other people as well. 0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:09.840 Yeah. Yeah, and that's that's really what I want to highlight. 0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:14.879 You know that what Squadron represents really is you know, 0:25:15.320 --> 0:25:19.280 you know, both a struggle for necessity but also an 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:22.760 example of where I imagination can take us. You know, 0:25:22.880 --> 0:25:26.280 our resistance does not have to take on the same 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:31.720 old forms of protests and to devoid per see. Right, 0:25:31.720 --> 0:25:34.639 there are things that we can do as ordinary people, 0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:39.159 whether we're black, whether we're gay, whether we're a Bangladesha immigrant, 0:25:39.920 --> 0:25:43.640 a veteran, as an ordinary person, you could you can 0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:47.440 also you know, take on the right action to create homes, 0:25:47.920 --> 0:25:51.359 resist racism, build communities and fight the state. 0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:55.720 Yeah. Like I think about a lot in Greece, right 0:25:55.800 --> 0:25:59.159 where anarchists have squatted places that were built for like 0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:02.720 the era when people could come from northern Europe to 0:26:02.720 --> 0:26:05.200 Southern Europe to spend their money and then avoid the winter. 0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:10.720 And since you know, general economic decline that doesn't happen 0:26:10.760 --> 0:26:13.119 as much. And now people have squatted those hotels to 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:16.200 allow migrants a dignified place to live, right, Yeah, that's 0:26:16.280 --> 0:26:19.760 it's a really beautiful project. It's envisioning another world literally 0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:22.280 in the ruins of the old world exactly. I think 0:26:22.280 --> 0:26:25.800 it's a really beautiful thing that people do to you know, 0:26:25.880 --> 0:26:29.439 take that action to address not just to protest something, 0:26:29.520 --> 0:26:32.840 but to say, like the system which deprives people of 0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:35.199 even a safe place to live, even the dignity of 0:26:35.240 --> 0:26:38.520 being able to sleep in it under a roof at night, Like, 0:26:38.680 --> 0:26:41.560 we are going to take action that strikes at the 0:26:41.600 --> 0:26:44.040 roots of that to ensure that we give others that 0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:46.800 the dignity that they deserve. And that's really special. 0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:53.880 Agreed, Agreed. And I mean I don't want to romanticize 0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:58.360 squat in as you know, just a easy way of life. 0:26:58.400 --> 0:27:02.240 It certainly is not. But to a quote crime think 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:06.240 the lesson of history is that in times of hows 0:27:06.280 --> 0:27:10.679 in deprivation, people squat the empty is the fact that 0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:13.520 this has been made illegal. There's not blind people to 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:15.760 the empty buildings or to the use of squat and 0:27:15.760 --> 0:27:20.120 as a tactic, the crack speaker in Amsterdam East promotes 0:27:20.119 --> 0:27:25.320 the slogan what neat mag khan knogsteats what is not 0:27:25.440 --> 0:27:30.280 allowed is still possible forgive my terrible Dutch. 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:34.560 Yeah mine's not much better. Yeah, I like that slogan 0:27:34.600 --> 0:27:37.720 a lot. Like I think the issue of homelessness in 0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:40.600 the United States in particular is something that like I 0:27:40.640 --> 0:27:42.679 think about a lot because I travel a lot. I 0:27:42.720 --> 0:27:47.480 remember sitting in a cafe in Kurdistan and i'd just 0:27:47.560 --> 0:27:50.680 been I was outside of just walking around, and some 0:27:50.680 --> 0:27:53.480 people invite me to join their dominoes game. So I 0:27:53.560 --> 0:27:57.040 was playing dominoes, you know, like practicing my terrible Kurdish, 0:27:57.320 --> 0:28:00.600 and these guys were asking me like is it true 0:28:00.680 --> 0:28:04.240 that like people, and like they were especially interested in, 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:07.480 like the veterans who have been US soldiers, like sleep 0:28:07.520 --> 0:28:10.240 on the street in America, And I was like, yeah, 0:28:10.240 --> 0:28:12.480 that's the thing, like and they're like, why, what's the 0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:15.439 deal with that. I know the answer is that we 0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:17.760 have enough houses for everyone, but we've just treated them 0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:20.919 as a commodity to exchange. Right, We've been told that 0:28:20.960 --> 0:28:23.399 people can't live there, even though there's space for them 0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:26.399 to live, and even though it's actively hurting them living 0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:30.080 on the street. Right, it's such a condemnation of the 0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:33.040 situation we're in as a society in need. 0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:37.159 It is, what does the future look like? You know, 0:28:38.360 --> 0:28:42.840 none of us can really know. Yeah, but maybe we 0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:47.360 can sketch some outlines of how we can approach lanues differently. 0:28:48.040 --> 0:28:50.400 We could look to the past, and that's common traditions 0:28:50.440 --> 0:28:54.000 of the past as inspiration for what might return. And 0:28:54.080 --> 0:28:56.880 we could look to our own imagination of what the 0:28:56.880 --> 0:29:02.080 future can look like as we refuse domination. We can squat, 0:29:02.280 --> 0:29:07.400 of course, to show the cracks in this concept of property. 0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:12.360 You know, we can collective eze and collectively organize spaces 0:29:12.440 --> 0:29:17.560 for farming or production. You know, we can really, really 0:29:17.560 --> 0:29:19.840 could do any number of things. I think the guidance 0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:22.440 thread there has to be equity. Yeah, you know, it 0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:25.440 has to be recognition that nobody has a right to land. 0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:31.440 They don't use that absentee landlordism is something utterly absurd 0:29:31.480 --> 0:29:34.280 and can be rejected out right. I think we can 0:29:34.320 --> 0:29:39.760 also consider the non human in our approach to land 0:29:40.440 --> 0:29:43.800 in the future, you know, considering the the rights and 0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:47.920 responsibilities we have toward animals and plants that live in 0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:50.920 spaces that you know, should have their own existence beyond 0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:56.280 human utility. There will always be conflicts about how we 0:29:56.320 --> 0:29:59.840 can use these spaces and also how we might resolve 0:29:59.840 --> 0:30:03.680 these disputes. But I think it is clear that whereever 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:07.800 there's somebody who attempts to monopolize land by force, we 0:30:07.840 --> 0:30:14.400 can respond adequately. I think the tactic of squatn is 0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:24.240 one small, unfinished but necessary step towards a future where 0:30:24.280 --> 0:30:30.760 we reject property, where land is shared, where domination is abolished, 0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:37.520 where we as a human community and as a living community, 0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:42.000 can free decide together how we live on this earth. 0:30:43.400 --> 0:30:47.480 We'll just have to see that's it for me or 0:30:47.560 --> 0:30:49.959 power to all the people this has When it can 0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:55.000 happen here, I'm Andressage. That is James Stout and peace. 0:31:13.440 --> 0:31:16.080 Hello everyone, and welcome to it could happen here. My 0:31:16.200 --> 0:31:19.080 name is Dana al Kurd, and I'm a writer, analyst, 0:31:19.280 --> 0:31:23.480 and researcher of Palestinian and Arab politics. I'm an associate 0:31:23.520 --> 0:31:26.800 professor of political science and a senior non resident fellow 0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:31.280 at the Arab Center Washington. I'm recording this on October nineteenth, 0:31:31.320 --> 0:31:35.000 twenty twenty five. Negotiators from a number of countries and 0:31:35.160 --> 0:31:39.040 Israel were in Cairo recently discussing the next phase of 0:31:39.040 --> 0:31:43.440 the ceasefire agreement between Hamas and Israel. Hamas has since 0:31:43.520 --> 0:31:46.840 released all remaining Israeli hostages, as well as the bodies 0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:49.840 of those who were killed, and Israel has withdrawn from 0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:52.920 certain parts of the Gaza strip and started to release 0:31:52.960 --> 0:31:56.760 political prisoners as well as the bodies of Palestinians who 0:31:56.800 --> 0:32:00.000 have been killed after they were detained since October seventh. 0:32:01.280 --> 0:32:04.680 Some of the testimonies from these prisoners is just incredibly 0:32:04.880 --> 0:32:08.520 heart to stomach. The degree of the humanization that's been 0:32:08.560 --> 0:32:12.000 allowed to take place in these Israeli prisons, the torture 0:32:12.160 --> 0:32:17.520 and abuse that they faced is truly truly harrowing. Some 0:32:17.560 --> 0:32:20.400 of the Palestinian bodies that have been released are mutilated 0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:25.840 with extreme signs of torture. Some were released blindfolded and cuffed, 0:32:26.040 --> 0:32:30.080 returned with a noose around their neck. Greta Tunberg, who 0:32:30.120 --> 0:32:32.240 was on the flotilla recently trying to break the siege 0:32:32.280 --> 0:32:36.560 of Gaza, just also returned from Israeli prison where she 0:32:36.720 --> 0:32:42.280 was also abused and stripped and mistreated. She said in 0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:45.120 a recent interview, if they do this to a white 0:32:45.160 --> 0:32:48.400 person with a Swedish passport. We can only imagine what 0:32:48.440 --> 0:32:52.000 they do to Palestinians. And of course we are seeing 0:32:52.000 --> 0:32:54.800 this play out before our eyes. In a fair and 0:32:55.000 --> 0:32:58.480 just world where international law meant something, there would be 0:32:58.520 --> 0:33:01.920 consequences for this. Instead, today I want to talk about 0:33:01.920 --> 0:33:05.840 this plan that's been proposed by the Trump administration, the 0:33:06.000 --> 0:33:10.160 twenty point piece plan for Gaza. Reportedly, ex UK Prime 0:33:10.240 --> 0:33:14.040 Minister Tony Blair has been consulting with Trump and his 0:33:14.160 --> 0:33:18.120 son in law slash advisor Jared Kushner for some time 0:33:18.240 --> 0:33:20.720 hashing this plan out. We'll get back to him in 0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:24.120 a bit, as he's quite the character. This plan, as 0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:27.360 the name suggests, has twenty points, but it's a little 0:33:27.960 --> 0:33:31.640 light on details. It outlines the return of remaining Israel 0:33:31.720 --> 0:33:35.080 hostages very quickly, within seventy two hours. It says the 0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:39.320 Gaza strip needs to be quote demilitarized. It talks about 0:33:39.320 --> 0:33:44.240 the creation of an international stabilization force, an international security 0:33:44.280 --> 0:33:47.920 force to operate on the ground in Gaza with the 0:33:47.960 --> 0:33:52.520 eventual withdrawal of Israeli troops, but within a buffer zone, 0:33:52.560 --> 0:33:55.400 and this force would consist of soldiers from other countries. 0:33:56.280 --> 0:33:59.920 It also talks about the formation of a quote technocratic 0:34:00.240 --> 0:34:04.480 a political Palestinian temporary government to run the Gaza Strip 0:34:04.560 --> 0:34:09.440 territory until the peace process is concluded. But this temporary 0:34:09.440 --> 0:34:13.960 Palestinian government would only be allowed to engage in service provision, 0:34:14.280 --> 0:34:18.200 nothing more. That government would also be overseen by a 0:34:18.640 --> 0:34:23.000 quote Board of Peace run by Trump himself, his pal 0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:28.000 Tony Blair, and other yet unspecified members. There is some 0:34:28.160 --> 0:34:32.759 language on the economic development of a quote new Gaza, 0:34:32.800 --> 0:34:37.160 and some discussion of initiatives to promote tolerance, essentially to 0:34:37.320 --> 0:34:42.960 deradicalize Palestinians. Notably, the plan does not endorse ethnic cleansing 0:34:42.960 --> 0:34:47.160 of Palestinians from Gaza, which was wildly a serious thing 0:34:47.200 --> 0:34:49.440 on the table for a few months that Trump endorsed, 0:34:50.400 --> 0:34:54.840 but what it does say is still pretty insidious. Essentially, 0:34:55.280 --> 0:34:58.759 the plan says that a possible pathway to Palestinian self 0:34:58.800 --> 0:35:04.280 determination and statehood is conditioned on advances in quote Gaza's 0:35:04.320 --> 0:35:09.600 redevelopment and a quote Palestinian authority reform program that is 0:35:09.640 --> 0:35:14.680 faithfully carried out. Only then, the plan says, quote, conditions 0:35:14.719 --> 0:35:17.400 may finally be in place for a credible pathway to 0:35:17.440 --> 0:35:23.279 Palestinian self determination and statehood. Basically, if the Palestinians do good, 0:35:23.800 --> 0:35:27.040 if they comply with the International Security Force, if they 0:35:27.080 --> 0:35:30.880 take orders from the Board of Peace and quote reform 0:35:31.200 --> 0:35:33.759 the PA in some way, and what that means is 0:35:33.800 --> 0:35:38.000 a really big open question, then maybe their demands for 0:35:38.040 --> 0:35:42.239 self determination and statehood will eventually be discussed. As I've 0:35:42.280 --> 0:35:46.359 said before on previous episodes, that statehood part is a 0:35:46.360 --> 0:35:51.640 bit tricky because statehood means different things to different people. Apparently, 0:35:52.320 --> 0:35:56.480 Jared Kushner talked about maybe giving Palestinians a state without 0:35:56.480 --> 0:36:00.520 the annoying little detail of actual sovereignty is really prime 0:36:00.520 --> 0:36:03.880 minister that signed the Oslo Accords. Yet Zakrabin, which was 0:36:03.960 --> 0:36:07.760 the first time Palestinians and Israelis agreed to anything, directly 0:36:08.560 --> 0:36:13.240 said after signing that Israel would only ever give Palestinians 0:36:13.280 --> 0:36:17.920 something quote less than a state. The international community keeps 0:36:18.000 --> 0:36:22.040 recognizing a Palestinian state when the Palestinians don't really have 0:36:22.400 --> 0:36:25.520 control of any territory. It's like, is the state in 0:36:25.560 --> 0:36:28.600 the room with us now. It's also important to note 0:36:28.600 --> 0:36:32.120 here that the plan that Trump is proposing doesn't really 0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:36.680 include any Palestinian input, at least meaningfully. The goal from 0:36:36.760 --> 0:36:40.600 Israel and the US's perspective is for Hamas to be 0:36:40.680 --> 0:36:45.360 removed from the equation altogether. There's some discussion actually still 0:36:45.440 --> 0:36:48.680 of whether they will actually disarm or not, because Hamas 0:36:48.719 --> 0:36:50.759 has said to the media that it's not considering this. 0:36:51.680 --> 0:36:55.560 And as I mentioned, there is this throwaway line about 0:36:55.640 --> 0:37:00.120 reforming the Palestinian Authority, but what that means and how 0:37:00.200 --> 0:37:04.680 the Palestinian people actually factor in isn't addressed. Here's my 0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:09.640 educated guess. When Trump, an Israel, and the international community 0:37:10.200 --> 0:37:13.360 say they want to reform the PA, we have to 0:37:13.360 --> 0:37:16.359 look at what they've been doing and pushing for in 0:37:16.400 --> 0:37:19.680 the past couple of months to understand what that actually means. 0:37:20.160 --> 0:37:23.360 So for them, if we look at their track record, 0:37:24.040 --> 0:37:28.560 reforming the PA means figuring out an acceptable alternative from 0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:33.920 their perspective, to replace the octagenarian Palestinian President Mahamud Abbas, 0:37:34.560 --> 0:37:37.880 so that the PA can seem on paper more legitimate 0:37:38.600 --> 0:37:43.040 and better positioned to sign away Palestinian rights during future negotiations. 0:37:44.000 --> 0:37:46.440 They've already been pushing behind the scenes to set that up. 0:37:47.080 --> 0:37:51.680 They pressured Abbas to convene the Palestine Liberation Organization Central Council, 0:37:52.200 --> 0:37:56.120 change the bylaws, create a vice president position, and appoint 0:37:56.160 --> 0:37:58.880 the guy that's acceptable to the US and Israel to 0:37:58.960 --> 0:38:03.319 that role. That man was sena che Palestinian businessman and 0:38:03.360 --> 0:38:07.319 former security guy who polls at two percent with Palestinians. 0:38:08.560 --> 0:38:11.239 What reforming the PA does not mean it looks like, 0:38:11.960 --> 0:38:17.359 is actual democratic reform where Palestinians can choose not only 0:38:17.360 --> 0:38:21.680 their president but also on their legislative representatives and on 0:38:21.760 --> 0:38:25.640 the PLO legislative body, the National Council. It looks like 0:38:25.760 --> 0:38:29.040 reforming the PA doesn't mean all Palestinians will be allowed 0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:32.640 to participate if limited elections are held, and it seems 0:38:32.680 --> 0:38:36.759 it doesn't mean responding to what Palestinian civil society has 0:38:36.800 --> 0:38:41.680 been asking for, which is reforming the PA by reforming 0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:46.360 the PLO altogether so that all Palestinians can participate in 0:38:46.400 --> 0:38:51.360 the discussion of national liberation. We can guess that the US, Israel, 0:38:51.680 --> 0:38:55.800 and the international community quote unquote are unlikely to offer 0:38:55.840 --> 0:38:58.480 any of this because they've propped up the PA in 0:38:58.520 --> 0:39:02.280 the past and seem on propping up some puppet government 0:39:02.320 --> 0:39:05.480 of the PA in the future. But they need the PA, 0:39:05.760 --> 0:39:10.440 as some acceptable Palestinian entity to be even tangentially involved 0:39:10.520 --> 0:39:14.080 in future negotiations so that they can say, look, the 0:39:14.080 --> 0:39:18.000 Palestinians agree to this is legitimate, even if that PA 0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:22.360 doesn't represent people. Even if most Palestinians eighty five percent 0:39:22.760 --> 0:39:25.680 in the latest poll are dissatisfied with the PA's conduct 0:39:26.120 --> 0:39:28.520 and forty two percent support the the solution of the 0:39:28.520 --> 0:39:43.200 PA altogether, this is a dangerous game to play. Any 0:39:43.280 --> 0:39:46.200 sort of peace process in the future, as impossible as 0:39:46.239 --> 0:39:49.799 it seems at this current moment, that isn't predicated on 0:39:49.840 --> 0:39:53.280 the complete annihilation of one side of the conflict, will 0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:57.440 need some degree of public support. It will need societies 0:39:57.719 --> 0:40:01.680 involved in this conflict to buy into the process. Otherwise 0:40:02.000 --> 0:40:06.840 you get spoilers, you get political actors engaging in violence 0:40:07.320 --> 0:40:11.600 to disrupt the peace process, or you don't really resolve 0:40:11.640 --> 0:40:16.719 the underlying issues in an even compromised, satisfactory way and 0:40:16.760 --> 0:40:20.960 people get upset and the conflict continues. So, if you 0:40:20.960 --> 0:40:25.000 don't include people's buy in, what you're banking on is 0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:28.919 being able to suppress people, and what you want isn't 0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:34.440 really peace. It's authoritarian conflict management. It's illiberal. It maintains 0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:38.480 structural violence in the name of preserving peace. It means 0:40:38.560 --> 0:40:41.520 Palestinians wouldn't get the rights they have under international law 0:40:41.800 --> 0:40:44.759 the right to self determination, and it means the occupation 0:40:44.920 --> 0:40:46.600 in some form doesn't end. 0:40:47.120 --> 0:40:47.600 The thing is. 0:40:47.880 --> 0:40:50.800 This is well understood and it's well understood by the 0:40:50.840 --> 0:40:53.920 people involved in this twenty point piece plan for Gaza. 0:40:54.440 --> 0:40:57.240 Tony Blair, for example, was Prime Minister of the UK 0:40:57.520 --> 0:41:00.640 when the Northern Ireland conflict was being negotiated and settled. 0:41:01.200 --> 0:41:04.600 He understood then that public buy in was important. The 0:41:04.600 --> 0:41:07.960 Good Friday Agreement, which ended the conflict in Northern Ireland 0:41:08.200 --> 0:41:11.000 for the past twenty seven years, had not one, but 0:41:11.120 --> 0:41:14.640 two referendums, one for the people of Northern Ireland and 0:41:14.680 --> 0:41:17.560 one for the people of the Republic of Ireland. The 0:41:17.640 --> 0:41:21.560 process of getting to the Good Friday Agreement also included 0:41:21.680 --> 0:41:25.360 all groups militant groups from both sides of the conflict. 0:41:26.160 --> 0:41:28.200 This is what it takes for a conflict to be 0:41:28.239 --> 0:41:32.080 contained in some shape or form. But for some reason, 0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:35.520 when international leaders or ex leaders in the case of 0:41:35.560 --> 0:41:39.360 Tony Blair, think about conflicts in the Middle East involving Arabs, 0:41:40.000 --> 0:41:45.400 then public buy in, democratic processes, sustainable peace no longer 0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:48.640 factor into decision making. The buy in an opinion of 0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:53.920 the public matters, But apparently only certain publics. In other conflicts, also, 0:41:54.480 --> 0:41:58.320 like the breakdown of Yugoslavia, the perpetrators of genopocidal violence 0:41:58.360 --> 0:42:02.080 were held accountable by international They were taken to the Hague. 0:42:02.200 --> 0:42:07.920 They faced repercussions, of course, not perfectly, not entirely, not everyone. 0:42:07.960 --> 0:42:10.279 Some parties of the conflict that emerged in Bosnia after 0:42:10.360 --> 0:42:13.720 were rewarded for their violence. The vision of the Serbian 0:42:13.800 --> 0:42:17.720 leadership that committed war crimes in Bosnia came to fruition 0:42:17.800 --> 0:42:20.520 to some degree in the form of Republica Serpska today, 0:42:20.960 --> 0:42:24.560 which is a semi autonomous region that divides Bosnia Herzegovina. 0:42:24.920 --> 0:42:29.680 But nevertheless, the international community at least understood the necessity 0:42:29.760 --> 0:42:33.840 of holding perpetrators accountable for violence and war crimes, even 0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:37.920 if the execution was incomplete. In this case, there is 0:42:37.960 --> 0:42:41.880 no such discussion. A number of human rights organizations and 0:42:41.960 --> 0:42:44.920 the UN Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory 0:42:45.360 --> 0:42:49.480 have found Israeli leaders President Isaac Hertzog, Prime Minister Benjamin 0:42:49.520 --> 0:42:54.560 Netanyahu and then Defense Minister Yuav Gallant personally responsible for 0:42:54.640 --> 0:42:57.600 the decisions made in Gaza, the decision to engage in 0:42:57.640 --> 0:43:02.279 genocide in Gaza, but the ceasefire plan, which they are 0:43:02.280 --> 0:43:05.160 billing as a quote peace plan for a new Gaza 0:43:05.840 --> 0:43:09.120 and they're trying to make the basis of future negotiations, 0:43:09.800 --> 0:43:13.160 says nothing about accountability for crimes committed. Trump, in fact, 0:43:13.160 --> 0:43:16.600 went in front of the Kanesset, the Israeli parliament, and 0:43:16.719 --> 0:43:20.439 insisted on his support for Prime Minister Nataniahu. He even 0:43:20.480 --> 0:43:24.040 got involved in Natanyahu's corruption case that he has domestically 0:43:24.080 --> 0:43:28.760 in Israel. Addressing President Isaac hertzog As Kanesse members clapped 0:43:28.760 --> 0:43:29.640 and jeered. 0:43:30.400 --> 0:43:33.640 Hey, I have an idea, mister president. 0:43:33.880 --> 0:43:35.320 Why don't you give him a pardon. 0:43:47.760 --> 0:43:52.120 That's what we're dealing with here, Just an audacious, outrageous 0:43:52.160 --> 0:43:56.160 display of corruption on so many levels. The fact that 0:43:56.400 --> 0:43:59.719 these guys are the guys putting together the so called 0:43:59.719 --> 0:44:03.520 peace plan quotes poorly for the sustainability of this ceasefire 0:44:03.520 --> 0:44:06.880 agreement beyond the first phase, beyond Israel getting what it 0:44:06.920 --> 0:44:11.280 wants the hostages a huge buffer zone that leaves Israel 0:44:11.320 --> 0:44:15.839 in control of Gaza's former urban areas, and possibly they 0:44:15.880 --> 0:44:19.120 might get the neutralization of Hamas, it's not clear that 0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:23.160 this ceasefire agreement can actually advance into a sustainable negotiation 0:44:23.360 --> 0:44:26.760 that maintains peace in the long run. It's why scholar 0:44:27.040 --> 0:44:31.240 Marika Sosnowski at the University of Melbourne, who studies ceasefire 0:44:31.280 --> 0:44:35.800 agreements in particular, calls this a strangle contract. She notes 0:44:35.840 --> 0:44:40.080 that Israeli withdrawal, release of hostages, and full aid being 0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:43.680 led into Gaza is the quote bare minimum you would 0:44:43.680 --> 0:44:46.200 expect both sides to acquiesce to as part of a 0:44:46.200 --> 0:44:50.960 ceasefire deal. She expresses concern that this agreement is highly 0:44:50.960 --> 0:44:55.040 coercive and that it quote enables the more powerful party 0:44:55.480 --> 0:44:58.080 to force the weaker party into agreeing to anything in 0:44:58.160 --> 0:45:01.400 order for them to survive. This is in direct contrast 0:45:01.520 --> 0:45:05.080 to a bargain between two equal parties that can sustain peace. 0:45:06.200 --> 0:45:09.719 She also very rightly notes that Israel could at any 0:45:09.760 --> 0:45:12.959 time claim the Palestinians are not abiding by the terms 0:45:12.960 --> 0:45:17.759 of the agreement and and the ceasefire, justifying restarting the war. 0:45:18.760 --> 0:45:21.920 The Palestinians have no leverage at all in this agreement, 0:45:22.400 --> 0:45:27.640 and obviously they can't rely on unbiased international mediation with 0:45:27.760 --> 0:45:30.880 the Trump and Kushner and Blairs of the world. At 0:45:30.880 --> 0:45:34.239 the helm of this Sisnowski quotes a Palestinian leader from 0:45:34.360 --> 0:45:37.640 Yermut Camp and Syria, who said to her quote, if 0:45:37.640 --> 0:45:40.520 there is a ceasefire, people know the devil is coming. 0:45:41.280 --> 0:45:44.080 I think that captures exactly everyone's fears in this moment. 0:45:44.560 --> 0:45:47.920 The Palestinian Civil Defense Agency says forty Palestinians have been 0:45:47.960 --> 0:45:51.359 killed in Gaza today October nineteenth. Children have been shot 0:45:51.360 --> 0:45:53.840 and killed in the West Bank after the ceasefire agreement. 0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:57.200 Israel raided the family homes of Palestinian prisoners in five 0:45:57.280 --> 0:46:00.880 districts across the West Bank before releasing them. Nataniehu has 0:46:00.920 --> 0:46:03.920 said he won't open the Rafah crossing. These all seem 0:46:03.960 --> 0:46:07.120 like Israeli violations to the ceasefire to me, but that's 0:46:07.120 --> 0:46:10.520 not how it'll be reported. And because the Trump administration 0:46:11.080 --> 0:46:15.240 has twisted the meaning of words, where domination equals peace 0:46:15.760 --> 0:46:19.960 and injustice equal stability. Once this happens, I fear very 0:46:20.000 --> 0:46:22.799 few will question the premise of this agreement and the 0:46:22.960 --> 0:46:25.680 entire peace process to begin with, a peace process for 0:46:25.760 --> 0:46:30.040 Palestinians aren't even allowed to participate. No one can be 0:46:30.120 --> 0:46:33.359 surprised when this doesn't last, and no one can be 0:46:33.400 --> 0:46:36.479 surprised that this cannot be the basis for sustainable peace. 0:46:37.719 --> 0:46:40.680 But Hey, I hope I'm wrong. Thank you for listening 0:46:40.719 --> 0:46:43.240 to this episode of It Could Happen Here. Here's Hoping 0:46:43.239 --> 0:46:44.360 for Justice and Peace. 0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:05.640 Welcome to Ake It Happened Here, a podcast that has 0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:11.640 increasingly become about tariffs in the second Trump regime. I 0:47:11.719 --> 0:47:17.239 am your host, Miil Wong, and oh boy, it has 0:47:17.280 --> 0:47:21.040 been a big few weeks for tariff news. We have 0:47:22.040 --> 0:47:25.480 tariff numbers on China that I'm not even going to 0:47:25.560 --> 0:47:29.359 bother to actually record right now because by the time 0:47:29.400 --> 0:47:31.560 this goes out, the numbers will probably be different. There 0:47:31.560 --> 0:47:36.200 are supposed to be major negotiations underway between Trump and 0:47:36.239 --> 0:47:39.800 the Chinese government to attempt to come to yet another 0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:44.200 trade agreement and stave off yet another round one hundred 0:47:44.200 --> 0:47:48.319 percent tariffs. Now, if you want to follow the sort 0:47:48.360 --> 0:47:51.080 of blow by blow of what exactly is going on, 0:47:51.200 --> 0:47:55.600 I'm going to just sort of refer you to my 0:47:55.719 --> 0:48:01.480 section tariff talk on Executive Disorder. However, com we need 0:48:01.520 --> 0:48:05.640 to take a deeper look at what structurally is going 0:48:05.719 --> 0:48:12.000 on in the global economy that is resulting in the 0:48:12.040 --> 0:48:16.000 demand for tariffs in the first place. And I think 0:48:16.640 --> 0:48:19.640 the place to go if that's the thing that you're 0:48:19.640 --> 0:48:22.839 trying to figure out. And we've talked about the sort 0:48:22.880 --> 0:48:26.399 of ideological aspects of this in other episodes. We've talked 0:48:26.440 --> 0:48:30.800 about the ways that the sort of politics of fascism, 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:35.359 the politics of anti semitism, the politics of masculinity lead 0:48:35.440 --> 0:48:40.400 people towards these extremely ulternationalist policies that are specifically supposed 0:48:40.440 --> 0:48:45.200 to sort of protect the domestic blood and soil national 0:48:45.480 --> 0:48:50.279 industry and are supposed to protect material goods over services. 0:48:50.920 --> 0:48:53.880 But there are things that are happening structurally in the 0:48:53.960 --> 0:48:59.840 economy that make it such that people would consider things 0:48:59.880 --> 0:49:02.600 like the tariffs that have been happening under this regime 0:49:03.120 --> 0:49:06.520 as a solution to things that are kind of structural 0:49:06.520 --> 0:49:10.640 problems of the economy specifically. And this is what we're 0:49:10.640 --> 0:49:15.480 going to be focusing on today. Over capacity and steel. Now, 0:49:16.120 --> 0:49:18.520 some of you may be asking, Mia, why are we 0:49:18.560 --> 0:49:21.719 talking about steel over capacity? And I think there's a 0:49:21.760 --> 0:49:25.160 few important notes here. One, steel is in some ways 0:49:25.200 --> 0:49:28.520 emblematic of American tariff policy. It is I guess you 0:49:28.520 --> 0:49:32.319 would call it the most material of the tariffs, in 0:49:32.400 --> 0:49:34.440 the sense that it's the one where there's the most 0:49:35.080 --> 0:49:41.680 actual direct sort of material forces and direct lobbying groups 0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:45.759 asking for these specific tariffs. The American steel industry has 0:49:45.840 --> 0:49:50.120 been lobbying to some extent for some measures kind of 0:49:50.200 --> 0:49:53.400 like this. Steel is also one of the industries whereas 0:49:53.440 --> 0:49:56.760 as tariff rates are fluctuated and got up and down 0:49:56.840 --> 0:49:59.439 and whole waves of like Liberation Day, tariffs got put 0:49:59.480 --> 0:50:02.080 into place and then removed, and some of them we 0:50:02.160 --> 0:50:05.440 got put back into place a little bit. The steel 0:50:05.520 --> 0:50:08.520 tariffs were set at fifty percent and they've stayed at 0:50:08.560 --> 0:50:11.920 fifty percent since they were set. Basically, there's been a 0:50:11.920 --> 0:50:14.279 little bit of variation sort of before the final fix 0:50:14.320 --> 0:50:17.440 percent number was arrived at, but the steel tariffs have 0:50:17.520 --> 0:50:21.280 been one of the most stable tariffs. And the reason 0:50:21.480 --> 0:50:24.680 why it's been this stable if people can think back 0:50:24.760 --> 0:50:27.000 all the way to twenty eighteen, which I know that 0:50:27.120 --> 0:50:29.760 was a long time ago, but there was a miniature 0:50:29.800 --> 0:50:33.200 trade war between the US and China in twenty eighteen, 0:50:33.360 --> 0:50:37.760 and significant portions of it were focused on Chinese steel 0:50:37.800 --> 0:50:41.480 production specifically, and you know, this is one of the 0:50:41.520 --> 0:50:45.680 sort of fights that was had out. Nothing really structurally 0:50:45.840 --> 0:50:48.640 changed much from those. There was kind of a back 0:50:48.680 --> 0:50:51.000 and forth and then both sides kind of pulled back. 0:50:52.120 --> 0:50:56.800 But Comma, that's not happening this time. And what's interesting, 0:50:56.920 --> 0:50:59.400 and the reason that I was specifically talking about steel 0:50:59.480 --> 0:51:03.120 here is that it's now not just Trump that is 0:51:03.239 --> 0:51:08.120 tempting to institute large scale tariffs on steel. The European 0:51:08.239 --> 0:51:13.240 Commission for the EU has released a proposal to double 0:51:13.360 --> 0:51:17.200 tariffs on imported steel up to fifty percent, which is 0:51:17.200 --> 0:51:19.360 matched in the US, and also reduce the amount of 0:51:19.400 --> 0:51:22.120 steel that could be imported into the EU without paying 0:51:22.120 --> 0:51:26.400 any tariffs at all. And this is actually massive because 0:51:26.520 --> 0:51:29.920 this is an example of the EU effectively following US 0:51:30.000 --> 0:51:34.000 trade policy for very very similar reasons as the US. 0:51:35.080 --> 0:51:37.520 And if we can get to the bottom of what 0:51:37.680 --> 0:51:39.759 is going on here, and I promise we will, and 0:51:39.800 --> 0:51:43.120 I promise this will go towards something that is explaining 0:51:43.400 --> 0:51:47.920 really truly the macro dynamics of the entire global economy 0:51:47.960 --> 0:51:51.759 and why it's fucked. If we can actually trace out 0:51:51.800 --> 0:51:54.359 what's going on with these steel tariffs, we can do that. 0:51:55.880 --> 0:52:01.919 So let's talk about steel. Over Capacity as a concept 0:52:02.480 --> 0:52:06.399 is sort of convoluted. You know, you have to sort 0:52:06.400 --> 0:52:08.880 of ask the question, what is the quote unquote correct 0:52:08.920 --> 0:52:12.920 amount of steel? Because over capacity, you know, implies that 0:52:12.960 --> 0:52:16.800 there's capacity to produce steel over the amount that should 0:52:16.840 --> 0:52:19.200 be produced. So okay, how do you figure how MU 0:52:19.200 --> 0:52:20.520 steel should be produced? 0:52:20.800 --> 0:52:21.360 Eh? 0:52:22.040 --> 0:52:27.200 Very nebulous. It's also very difficult to measure because, okay, 0:52:27.200 --> 0:52:29.920 we're gonna try to measure steel over capacity. There's a 0:52:29.960 --> 0:52:31.800 lot of ways to do it that rely on things 0:52:31.920 --> 0:52:35.600 like utilization rates. Right, So you look at the steel facilities, 0:52:35.600 --> 0:52:37.279 you see how much they're being used at. You see 0:52:37.320 --> 0:52:40.319 how much you know excess capacity there is, how many 0:52:40.320 --> 0:52:43.120 how many factories are sitting empty one percentage of factories, 0:52:43.560 --> 0:52:47.160 you know, total outputs being used. This doesn't work because 0:52:47.160 --> 0:52:50.360 the utilization rates of these factories of this fixed capital 0:52:50.640 --> 0:52:55.239 varies seasonally, for example, and it varies due to not 0:52:55.320 --> 0:52:57.480 just the season, but a whole bunch of other factors, 0:52:57.920 --> 0:53:02.680 things like you know, labor supply, weather demand pulls, and 0:53:02.800 --> 0:53:06.400 of whole munch of other factors. Utilization rates of steel 0:53:06.440 --> 0:53:10.680 producing facilities are very rarely at one hundred percent, even 0:53:10.719 --> 0:53:14.080 in Marcus where demand at shrip supply. And this makes 0:53:14.120 --> 0:53:18.240 it very very difficult to measure China's actual quote unquote overcapacity. 0:53:19.040 --> 0:53:22.359 I am not going to even really try to give 0:53:22.440 --> 0:53:26.040 numbers because it's extremely subjective. How do I say this 0:53:26.640 --> 0:53:29.160 based on the research that I have done. I think 0:53:29.200 --> 0:53:31.640 the numbers you normally see in the West are inflated 0:53:31.680 --> 0:53:35.280 because they are not accounting for things like the weather, 0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:38.040 because it is in the interest of sort of Western 0:53:38.080 --> 0:53:42.320 research institutions, but for example, Western financial institutions, specifically steel companies, 0:53:42.920 --> 0:53:47.719 and they're sort of like allied China Hawk, you know, 0:53:47.880 --> 0:53:50.040 sort of like academics to have the number be as 0:53:50.080 --> 0:53:52.600 high as possible. You will also see numbers from people 0:53:52.600 --> 0:53:55.439 who are tied to Chinese government, And when I say 0:53:55.480 --> 0:53:57.799 tied to, I mean kind of in a loose ideological sense. 0:53:57.800 --> 0:54:00.120 In the same way as the China Hawks are, the 0:54:00.160 --> 0:54:02.239 Chinahawks tend to actually be more directly connected to the 0:54:02.320 --> 0:54:06.680 US government. Their numbers are probably also too low. But 0:54:07.320 --> 0:54:11.440 I don't want to give you the impression that I 0:54:11.520 --> 0:54:16.120 have a extremely certain understanding of what the exact number 0:54:16.160 --> 0:54:19.919 of millions of tons of xsdo production is happening. What 0:54:20.360 --> 0:54:25.200 we can sort of agree on is that there does 0:54:25.239 --> 0:54:29.759 seem to be some kind of overcapacity in the Chinese economy, right, 0:54:30.040 --> 0:54:32.760 and this is something that the Chinese Communist Party also 0:54:32.880 --> 0:54:37.040 agrees on. If you go back to a document that 0:54:37.239 --> 0:54:40.879 really really few people in the US have ever seen 0:54:40.920 --> 0:54:46.440 to have heard of, which is the wonderfully titled Opinions 0:54:46.560 --> 0:54:49.040 of the CPC Central Committee and the State Council on 0:54:49.640 --> 0:54:54.040 further Promoting the development of Ecological Civilization, which was one 0:54:54.040 --> 0:54:57.480 of the founding documentary Chinese environmental policy and the ideological 0:54:57.840 --> 0:55:01.480 sort of underpinnings of this thing called ecological civilization, which 0:55:01.480 --> 0:55:05.000 is the basis of Chinese environmental policy. One of the 0:55:05.000 --> 0:55:11.359 things that they mentioned a lot is specifically overcapacity. Right, 0:55:11.840 --> 0:55:15.800 They are actually very concerned about the overcapacity of steal 0:55:15.880 --> 0:55:20.560 from an ecological perspective. And this is sort of fascinating 0:55:20.560 --> 0:55:23.600 because we'll be looking at some scholars later who are 0:55:24.080 --> 0:55:29.160 favorably quoted in Chinese state media's sources describing how there 0:55:29.200 --> 0:55:33.960 isn't actually overcapacity because states say different things in different places, 0:55:34.000 --> 0:55:37.560 and this is in fact extremely common. But there does 0:55:37.600 --> 0:55:39.840 seem to be some kind of overcapacity, and the Chinese 0:55:39.880 --> 0:55:43.000 government was to some extent making attempts to reduce it 0:55:43.880 --> 0:55:46.960 during this sort of period of trade war. Now, the 0:55:47.040 --> 0:55:50.000 other issue we're talking about overcapacity is that overcapacity is 0:55:50.480 --> 0:55:54.799 an extremely political issue now, right, It's extremely weird because 0:55:54.800 --> 0:55:57.520 the Chinese seal over capacity is like my most niche 0:55:58.239 --> 0:56:01.839 thing that I've studied. I've had like a paper on 0:56:01.880 --> 0:56:06.080 this sitting in a drive on my computer for over 0:56:06.120 --> 0:56:09.120 half a decade. I have never brought it out until now. 0:56:11.480 --> 0:56:14.000 But it's become an extremely political topic because the different 0:56:14.040 --> 0:56:19.239 theories of stealover capacity have become a basis for a 0:56:19.360 --> 0:56:23.480 lot of genuine trade policy. Now. I think a very 0:56:23.600 --> 0:56:27.840 very interesting book at Chinese stealover capacity is from the 0:56:27.840 --> 0:56:31.240 book Understanding China's over Capacity. She's written by two Chinese 0:56:31.280 --> 0:56:35.000 economists that I think is a really interesting literature survey. 0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:37.920 This this is around bout twenty eighteen. But I think 0:56:38.200 --> 0:56:43.360 what's interesting about it it's from before the period where 0:56:43.960 --> 0:56:46.920 everyone in the West had sort of decided what they 0:56:47.000 --> 0:56:52.319 think caused Chinese steal over capacity, and so you can 0:56:52.400 --> 0:56:54.480 go back. You know, it's not just useful to sort 0:56:54.480 --> 0:56:56.879 of go back in time and look at the other 0:56:57.080 --> 0:57:00.239 theories that were sort of floating around academia before or 0:57:00.280 --> 0:57:04.800 a few of them got specifically selective for ideological purposes. Now, 0:57:05.040 --> 0:57:07.040 I mentioned earlier, we'd be talking about some economists. You 0:57:07.040 --> 0:57:09.680 don't think that's Chinese steel over capacity is real, that's 0:57:09.719 --> 0:57:11.719 these people. I think that part of their thesis is 0:57:11.800 --> 0:57:14.920 not very good. I think their survey of the literature 0:57:14.920 --> 0:57:20.680 on overcapacity, though, is very good. And one of the 0:57:20.840 --> 0:57:25.480 very interesting arguments they make this doesn't argue with a 0:57:25.520 --> 0:57:28.440 couple of other economists that has sort of disappeared from 0:57:28.440 --> 0:57:34.000 the literature is in argument about, okay, so there's steel 0:57:34.000 --> 0:57:37.200 production that's happening that doesn't need to happen. I think 0:57:37.200 --> 0:57:40.800 it's pretty fair to say that something is over capacity 0:57:40.840 --> 0:57:43.320 if it's producing a bunch of steel that sits there 0:57:43.320 --> 0:57:45.760 in rots because no one can sell it, which is 0:57:45.800 --> 0:57:49.080 a thing that happens with Chinese steel. And one of 0:57:49.120 --> 0:57:52.320 the most interesting theses that has really been abandoned, even 0:57:52.360 --> 0:57:54.760 though I think it is actually to a decent extent 0:57:54.800 --> 0:58:00.640 explanatory of a lot of very very weird stuff that 0:58:00.720 --> 0:58:04.240 happens in Chinese policy circles and a lot of just 0:58:04.520 --> 0:58:11.240 very baffling investment decisions, is specifically something about local caudras 0:58:11.760 --> 0:58:14.960 and their performance incentives. So, okay, something that's very important 0:58:14.960 --> 0:58:18.200 to understand about the structure of the CCP is that 0:58:18.360 --> 0:58:23.560 Chinese government institutions are sort of run by these caudras, right, 0:58:24.120 --> 0:58:25.960 and so if you are, for example, I don't know 0:58:26.040 --> 0:58:29.160 you are the mayor of a mid size city, right, 0:58:29.240 --> 0:58:33.920 you get performance evaluations and those sort of yearly performance evaluations. 0:58:33.960 --> 0:58:36.880 Sometimes there's less frequents than that, but those those performance 0:58:37.000 --> 0:58:40.600 evaluations rank you at sort of how good you're doing 0:58:40.640 --> 0:58:44.320 your job. And obviously there's political maneuver rank here too, 0:58:44.640 --> 0:58:46.880 But if you do a good job of hitting your targets, 0:58:46.880 --> 0:58:49.200 this is your path to advance upwards in the party 0:58:49.240 --> 0:58:52.960 and be moved from you know, like sort of running 0:58:53.000 --> 0:58:56.520 a small city to like being brought into caudra in 0:58:56.680 --> 0:58:59.920 larger cities, and you know, moving your way up the part, 0:59:00.080 --> 0:59:04.520 moving national positions. These evaluations are extremely important. You can 0:59:04.560 --> 0:59:07.920 also get sort of busted down if your evaluations suck. Again, 0:59:07.960 --> 0:59:11.360 there's also what politics are too, But these evaluations actually 0:59:11.360 --> 0:59:16.200 do matter. And one of the issues with these evaluations 0:59:16.240 --> 0:59:19.640 and these are also policy making implementation tools, right. You know, 0:59:19.920 --> 0:59:23.400 the central government can decide what kinds of policies they 0:59:23.440 --> 0:59:26.240 want to pursue, and then they can use these codure 0:59:26.240 --> 0:59:29.479 evaluations to make people at the sort of local level 0:59:29.480 --> 0:59:31.919 who are usually semi autonomous in ways that I think 0:59:32.440 --> 0:59:35.840 is not very well understood in the West, these countrare 0:59:35.840 --> 0:59:41.040 evaluations are ways to try to ensure that Chinese sort 0:59:41.040 --> 0:59:44.880 of local and provincial government policy kind of aligns with 0:59:45.120 --> 0:59:49.800 national party policy. And the waiting on these examinations is 0:59:49.880 --> 0:59:52.720 such that it has very very weird effects. And what 0:59:52.720 --> 0:59:56.640 I'm specifically talking about here is that GDP numbers are 0:59:56.920 --> 1:00:01.120 very very important to these codure value and it matters 1:00:01.360 --> 1:00:06.840 that it's specifically gross domestic product because GDP is a 1:00:07.160 --> 1:00:11.440 very very weird number, and there's a lot of stuff 1:00:11.600 --> 1:00:15.640 you can do to sort of juice GDP numbers that 1:00:15.920 --> 1:00:23.120 aren't really necessarily beneficial to an economy. So you can 1:00:23.200 --> 1:00:27.560 have a bunch of firms that are basically unprofitable or 1:00:27.640 --> 1:00:32.120 doing something that's like not particularly economically or socially useful, 1:00:32.120 --> 1:00:35.840 and that can still boost GDP numbers. And one of 1:00:35.920 --> 1:00:37.680 the things that happens with this is that you can 1:00:37.760 --> 1:00:40.120 boost GDP numbers by making a shit tout of steel 1:00:40.440 --> 1:00:43.800 that nobody actually really wants or uses. And because of 1:00:43.840 --> 1:00:47.720 the priority that's set on GDP numbers specifically, and there's 1:00:47.720 --> 1:00:49.480 also a whole bunch of these sort of weird financial 1:00:49.520 --> 1:00:51.959 games that you can play that's also played a major 1:00:52.040 --> 1:00:55.400 role in the way the Chinese housing bubble has played 1:00:55.440 --> 1:01:00.600 out and the way that the government has been unwilling 1:01:00.680 --> 1:01:02.160 to sort of you know, and when I say the 1:01:02.240 --> 1:01:05.200 government here, I be in both the national governments and 1:01:05.280 --> 1:01:07.400 also sort of these lower level governments have been unwilling 1:01:07.440 --> 1:01:09.800 to sort of let a bunch of debt bubbles that 1:01:09.840 --> 1:01:13.920 they've accumulated pop because those things prop up GDP numbers, 1:01:13.920 --> 1:01:17.000 and the incentive on the local level is to keep 1:01:17.080 --> 1:01:20.440 these numbers up. This used to actually be one of 1:01:20.440 --> 1:01:22.360 the things that people would talk about when they talked 1:01:22.360 --> 1:01:26.240 about Chinese steal over capacity. But it's complicated, like you 1:01:26.280 --> 1:01:31.400 can't very very easily explain this to you know, like 1:01:31.440 --> 1:01:35.520 a right wing congress person and have them go, oh, yeah, right, 1:01:35.600 --> 1:01:38.800 this is unfair to the American market, and so it 1:01:38.880 --> 1:01:40.919 kind of has like fallen out of favor and sort 1:01:40.960 --> 1:01:44.160 of like the explanation to steal over capacity you see 1:01:44.160 --> 1:01:46.960 in places like the New York Times. But I actually 1:01:46.960 --> 1:01:48.600 think this is one of the things that does, to 1:01:48.640 --> 1:01:52.120 some extent cause Chinese steal over capacity. Now do you 1:01:52.200 --> 1:01:55.520 know what doesn't cause Chinese steal over capacity? That's right, 1:01:55.600 --> 1:01:58.560 it is the products and services that support this podcast. 1:02:09.400 --> 1:02:12.600 So I wanted to talk about the local quadra explanations, 1:02:12.640 --> 1:02:18.160 because I actually think these are kind of important. And 1:02:18.360 --> 1:02:22.080 I want to talk about one other argument that's also 1:02:22.280 --> 1:02:26.840 not really used much that used to be a lot 1:02:26.920 --> 1:02:32.200 more common, which is an argument that Chinese economist makes 1:02:32.360 --> 1:02:36.880 that one of the reasons that there's overcapacity in Chinese 1:02:36.880 --> 1:02:41.240 steel production is that upwards wealth distribution leads to lower 1:02:41.320 --> 1:02:44.920 levels of consumption and thus over capacity. And so what 1:02:45.240 --> 1:02:46.840 is basically means and this is something that I think 1:02:46.920 --> 1:02:49.080 is actually also a thing that's the best structural problem 1:02:49.200 --> 1:02:51.240 in in the Chinese economies, that the Chinese economy is 1:02:51.640 --> 1:02:56.040 extremely highly unequal and wages, you know, like they have 1:02:56.280 --> 1:02:59.439 risen to some extent, but they're not rising anywhere near 1:03:00.120 --> 1:03:01.680 you know, like we've everyone in the US have seen 1:03:01.720 --> 1:03:05.160 that famous charge of productivity versus like labor gains, right 1:03:05.320 --> 1:03:08.680 like wage gains versus prouctivity increases. Wages in China have 1:03:08.760 --> 1:03:12.160 gone up, they have absolutely not kept pace with sort 1:03:12.200 --> 1:03:16.840 of productivity growth, and they also absolutely like have not 1:03:17.000 --> 1:03:20.760 kept pace with the amount of the profit being produced 1:03:20.760 --> 1:03:23.360 that is going to a very very small number of 1:03:23.520 --> 1:03:27.640 capital owners. And this actually to reach the structural problem, 1:03:27.680 --> 1:03:30.000 and this is we're seeing a very similar structural problem 1:03:30.040 --> 1:03:33.720 to this in the US, where there is a lot 1:03:33.760 --> 1:03:39.160 of consumption that if that money wasn't just all going 1:03:39.520 --> 1:03:43.560 to a bunch of rich people, people would actually be 1:03:44.000 --> 1:03:47.240 spending it on things, And particularly in Chinese context, the 1:03:47.320 --> 1:03:49.080 argument was that if if there was a better distribution 1:03:49.120 --> 1:03:52.280 of wealth, people would buy more houses, and this would 1:03:52.280 --> 1:03:55.120 actually reduce over capacity because suddenly a bunch of the 1:03:55.160 --> 1:03:58.320 slack capacity would be being used to like build houses, 1:03:58.640 --> 1:04:02.520 except people can't afford the houses. And this is a 1:04:02.520 --> 1:04:04.880 structural problem that like economists sort of note about for 1:04:04.920 --> 1:04:07.560 decades and decades, which is that China has been for 1:04:07.600 --> 1:04:09.560 a very long time. The whole thing was that they 1:04:09.560 --> 1:04:12.320 were trying to transition into a consumption economy, which is 1:04:12.320 --> 1:04:14.520 to say, they were trying to transition into an economy 1:04:15.040 --> 1:04:18.160 that was fueled by its own internal consumption. The US 1:04:18.240 --> 1:04:20.120 is to a large extent sort of kind of works 1:04:20.160 --> 1:04:22.480 like this, where you know, you want to increase the 1:04:22.560 --> 1:04:24.560 level of consumption and the amount of stuff that people 1:04:24.600 --> 1:04:27.120 in your country are buying, and this is a way 1:04:27.160 --> 1:04:29.520 to sort of like create a middle income country, right 1:04:30.080 --> 1:04:32.040 And China has historically not been able to do this, 1:04:32.080 --> 1:04:33.480 and haven't been able to do this because they won't 1:04:33.520 --> 1:04:36.720 raise wages. But you know, if they won't actually raised 1:04:36.920 --> 1:04:42.480 wages enough to increase people's consumption levels, then you're left 1:04:42.520 --> 1:04:46.680 for structural overcapacity because demand is being lowered because people 1:04:46.760 --> 1:04:50.840 don't have any fucking money. Now, this is another argument 1:04:50.880 --> 1:04:53.560 again and I think is also probably correct that is 1:04:54.120 --> 1:04:57.320 very much not talked about anymore because the argument that 1:04:58.240 --> 1:05:01.640 is used in in sort of understanding what's going on 1:05:01.680 --> 1:05:06.680 with Chinese seel capacity is about the Chinese subsidization of 1:05:06.720 --> 1:05:10.600 state owned enterprises at the expense of sort of private firms. 1:05:11.000 --> 1:05:13.040 And the argument here basically said, the state is propping 1:05:13.080 --> 1:05:18.360 up a bunch of unprofitable enterprises and they're holding sectors 1:05:18.360 --> 1:05:21.520 of the economy that should be you know, taken over 1:05:21.560 --> 1:05:24.800 by more efficient private firms, but they can't because they're 1:05:24.800 --> 1:05:29.200 being subsidized by the government. And this is sort of true, 1:05:29.920 --> 1:05:34.560 but this became a massive geopolitical argument because the argument 1:05:34.640 --> 1:05:36.600 from the American side, and when you hear anyone talking 1:05:36.600 --> 1:05:39.000 about steal of capacity, now this is the argument that 1:05:39.040 --> 1:05:41.120 you hear right, which that China is flooding the world 1:05:41.120 --> 1:05:44.000 with cheap steel because there's a whole bunch of like 1:05:44.080 --> 1:05:46.680 Chinese state own industries or just like Chinese businesses are 1:05:46.680 --> 1:05:48.760 just getting money from the Chinese government to produce steel 1:05:48.760 --> 1:05:51.120 and they're pumping cheap steel to the rest of the world. 1:05:51.960 --> 1:05:58.080 And this is not really I mean, like kind of 1:05:58.200 --> 1:06:01.400 this is happening, but it's also not the reason why 1:06:02.400 --> 1:06:06.160 there's large scale steal over capacity. And of course the 1:06:06.280 --> 1:06:09.680 argument is that China isn't competing fairly in the market, 1:06:09.960 --> 1:06:13.280 like this is very silly. Markets have never worked without 1:06:13.800 --> 1:06:18.080 large scale state quote unquote interference, Like American companies also 1:06:18.120 --> 1:06:21.400 get extremely high level subsidization et cetera, et ceteracy, all 1:06:21.400 --> 1:06:24.880 of US coregn policy. But you know, this is the 1:06:24.880 --> 1:06:31.000 political imperative that's behind a lot of the rhetoric coming 1:06:31.040 --> 1:06:34.000 out of steel producers and out of the American right 1:06:34.080 --> 1:06:38.720 about why there should be terrocists on steel. Now there's 1:06:38.800 --> 1:06:43.480 a problem though, which is that all of these arguments 1:06:43.920 --> 1:06:48.040 are very specific to China. 1:06:48.160 --> 1:06:48.320 Right. 1:06:48.320 --> 1:06:50.560 The argument is that there are specifically steal over capacity 1:06:50.600 --> 1:06:54.280 in China because it's something structurally specifically wrong with the 1:06:54.360 --> 1:06:57.440 Chinese economy that's like makes it not a free market, 1:06:57.520 --> 1:07:01.200 and because of that, China's like unfair competing global market. 1:07:01.240 --> 1:07:02.840 And this is why there's so much over capacity of 1:07:02.920 --> 1:07:08.000 Chinese steel. This is wrong. There are individual parts of 1:07:08.040 --> 1:07:10.200 this where yeah, like there are things where there is 1:07:10.280 --> 1:07:14.800 excess capacity being produced by quadre evaluations and by to 1:07:14.840 --> 1:07:23.080 some extent like so we subsidization. However, Comma, there's a problem. 1:07:23.520 --> 1:07:28.640 And the problem here is that over capacity and overcapacity 1:07:28.640 --> 1:07:30.960 and steel is not just a Chinese phenomena. It is 1:07:31.000 --> 1:07:33.360 a global phenomena. It has been a global phenomena for 1:07:33.400 --> 1:07:35.720 a long time, and it is largely a product of 1:07:35.760 --> 1:07:39.200 the fact that we do not live in a global 1:07:39.240 --> 1:07:46.400 economy that can actually support the amount of production capacity 1:07:47.000 --> 1:07:49.800 that exists in the world. This has been a problem 1:07:50.200 --> 1:07:54.200 really since the seventies, and arguably even since the sixties, 1:07:54.520 --> 1:07:57.959 where as countries rebuilt from World War Two, and as 1:07:58.080 --> 1:08:00.960 some some sort of developments in global capital that we're 1:08:01.000 --> 1:08:06.280 going to be sort of like talking about soon happens 1:08:06.840 --> 1:08:09.560 that the product of all of this is that production 1:08:09.920 --> 1:08:13.080 has And this is kind of the thing that the 1:08:13.120 --> 1:08:17.000 sort of fascist right kind of intuitively understands. Production has 1:08:17.000 --> 1:08:20.439 become zero sum, right, It's very difficult to increase production 1:08:20.680 --> 1:08:24.519 in one country without having it, you know, affect production 1:08:24.600 --> 1:08:26.840 in the countries there isn't enough demand in the market 1:08:26.840 --> 1:08:40.760 to sort of like fuel all of these things. So 1:08:41.320 --> 1:08:45.200 why is there not enough demand to fuel the amount 1:08:45.240 --> 1:08:47.680 of supply that would be that would be necessary to 1:08:47.720 --> 1:08:52.120 make there not be over capacity. The answer to this, 1:08:52.400 --> 1:08:55.679 in sort of marketing theory is that, as they sort 1:08:55.680 --> 1:08:59.560 of put it, over production and under consumption are doubly constructed. 1:09:00.120 --> 1:09:01.920 I'm going to read a quote from end Notes, volume two, 1:09:01.920 --> 1:09:03.160 and then we're going to explain a little bit what 1:09:03.200 --> 1:09:06.920 that means. The wage allocates workers to production and at 1:09:06.920 --> 1:09:10.680 the same time allocates the product to workers. So what 1:09:11.120 --> 1:09:16.840 that means is that under consumption and overproduction are in 1:09:16.840 --> 1:09:20.840 effect the same thing, right, Because the way that we 1:09:20.920 --> 1:09:24.560 allocate workers to what thing they're going to do, and 1:09:24.600 --> 1:09:27.519 at the same time allocate products to those workers is 1:09:27.600 --> 1:09:31.880 the wage, which is one thing. So overproduction and under 1:09:31.880 --> 1:09:36.120 consumption are the same thing, right, and they're caused by 1:09:36.400 --> 1:09:41.320 the same structural elements of the wage relation. Now, this 1:09:41.400 --> 1:09:46.240 means that the Chinese capacity crisis is actually part of 1:09:46.560 --> 1:09:47.880 a larger crisis. 1:09:48.560 --> 1:09:48.760 Right. 1:09:49.280 --> 1:09:52.160 You know the thing about the double construction, you know 1:09:52.240 --> 1:09:54.720 of overcapacity in unter consumption. Right, the fact that they 1:09:54.720 --> 1:09:57.439 are really the two things that's unified in the fact that, 1:09:58.080 --> 1:10:00.400 like your wage allocates what kind of productions you're doing 1:10:00.439 --> 1:10:04.200 and what you can consume. The fact that both those 1:10:04.200 --> 1:10:07.920 things combined are realized in this sort of secular crisis 1:10:08.160 --> 1:10:11.160 in what's called Marxist absolute general law of capitalist accumulation. 1:10:12.120 --> 1:10:15.880 So what the fuck is that the short version is? 1:10:16.479 --> 1:10:19.639 Over time in capitalist economies, there's supposed to be an 1:10:19.720 --> 1:10:23.920 increase of what's called the organic composition of capital. Basically, 1:10:23.960 --> 1:10:26.400 there are composition of capital is a way to measure 1:10:27.080 --> 1:10:29.799 how much in the pro labor process. It's like fixed capital, 1:10:29.880 --> 1:10:33.880 variable capital, so it's like how much factory is there 1:10:34.320 --> 1:10:39.400 relative to the amount of worker there is. And Marxist thesis, 1:10:39.720 --> 1:10:42.000 which has generally been born out, although we'll talk a 1:10:42.000 --> 1:10:45.120 little bit about that more later, is that this composition 1:10:45.439 --> 1:10:50.040 is going to increase, and as it increases, accumulation also 1:10:50.160 --> 1:10:53.040 needs to increase in order to maintain employment levels. This 1:10:53.120 --> 1:10:57.120 is sort of accomplished by things like automation, which reduces 1:10:57.160 --> 1:11:00.719 the size of the labor force, and thus, to quote 1:11:00.760 --> 1:11:05.600 and notes again, as accumulation proceeds, a growing superabundance of 1:11:05.640 --> 1:11:10.799 goods lowers the rate of profit and heightens competition. Across lines, 1:11:11.280 --> 1:11:15.160 compelling all capitalists to, as Mark said, economize on labor. 1:11:15.960 --> 1:11:18.879 So basically what this means is like as as capital 1:11:18.920 --> 1:11:21.559 gets turned into more capital and larger amounts of capital, 1:11:21.640 --> 1:11:25.479 this is the accumulation process. As this continues, right, you 1:11:25.520 --> 1:11:28.400 get this massive sort of increasing the amount of goods 1:11:28.400 --> 1:11:31.040 that are being produced. Eventually that lowers the rate of 1:11:31.080 --> 1:11:35.360 profit in a sector. And eventually what that does is, 1:11:35.400 --> 1:11:37.360 you know, in order to sort of economize on labor, 1:11:38.400 --> 1:11:41.840 capital increases the amount of automation reduces the amount of 1:11:41.840 --> 1:11:44.320 people that they need in the labor process. You know, 1:11:44.360 --> 1:11:46.680 this is what what's generally known as automation and the 1:11:46.720 --> 1:11:49.280 sort of crisis of people getting kicked out of the 1:11:49.400 --> 1:11:51.360 draws because of it. As this process is sort of 1:11:51.400 --> 1:11:54.799 generalized across sectoral lines across different parts of the economy, 1:11:55.320 --> 1:11:59.160 the relative demand for labor decreases and workers are spin 1:11:59.240 --> 1:12:00.960 out of the wage re line, which is the fancy 1:12:00.960 --> 1:12:05.160 Marxist way to say that become structurally unemployed. And you know, 1:12:05.240 --> 1:12:07.160 the thing that happens when you get kicked out of 1:12:07.160 --> 1:12:10.640 the capitalist wage relation is you get kicked into informal 1:12:10.720 --> 1:12:16.400 labor and slums, which you know decreases demand and increase overproduction. 1:12:16.560 --> 1:12:19.840 At the same time, over capacity is skyrocketing, right, because 1:12:19.880 --> 1:12:21.639 you have increasing numbers of people who have been spat 1:12:21.680 --> 1:12:24.880 out the formal economy who no longer have access to 1:12:25.000 --> 1:12:27.559 regular wages. The wages they get in the informal economy 1:12:27.560 --> 1:12:28.880 are less than the ones they would get in the 1:12:28.880 --> 1:12:31.840 formal economy. And as we were saying write, access to 1:12:31.880 --> 1:12:35.400 like the wage, both determines production and consumption. So if 1:12:35.439 --> 1:12:38.120 you lose access to the wage, right, and there's still 1:12:38.120 --> 1:12:41.439 more stuff being produced because of automation levels, what you 1:12:41.520 --> 1:12:45.120 get is a massive, skyrocketing double increase of overproduction and 1:12:45.280 --> 1:12:48.840 under consumption, right, because there's just not enough money to 1:12:48.920 --> 1:12:51.640 fucking buy the stuff. And the result of this is 1:12:51.720 --> 1:12:56.000 a miseration. Everything gets fucking worse. This sort of used 1:12:56.040 --> 1:12:58.120 to be an academic argument. It is no longer an 1:12:58.120 --> 1:13:02.080 academic argument. It is just the terrain on which economic 1:13:02.120 --> 1:13:06.960 policy unfolds. Now. The miseration thesis is this is you know, 1:13:07.000 --> 1:13:10.080 as a sort of like general law of capitalist accumulation 1:13:10.200 --> 1:13:13.280 is called has been argued about constantly. There have been 1:13:13.320 --> 1:13:16.439 ways that has been avoided. One of the biggest ways 1:13:16.640 --> 1:13:21.320 traditionally has been by capitalism sort of transforming goods into services. 1:13:22.439 --> 1:13:24.479 So for example, like the operative example of this is 1:13:24.520 --> 1:13:26.960 the transition in the US from rail lines to cars 1:13:27.600 --> 1:13:30.240 on something that points out, So you know, you get 1:13:30.240 --> 1:13:32.559 these new industries that are both labor or capital intensive. 1:13:32.560 --> 1:13:36.960 By replacing train with car, you know, you can absorb 1:13:37.080 --> 1:13:39.719 huge populations of workers as well as incorporate the peasantry 1:13:39.720 --> 1:13:42.720 into the industrial economy by sort of like converting these 1:13:42.760 --> 1:13:44.720 things into services. This has sort of been what the 1:13:44.800 --> 1:13:48.320 economy has been increasingly converted into a service based economy 1:13:48.320 --> 1:13:52.439 of various kinds. That's kind of what's happening now, you know, 1:13:52.479 --> 1:13:54.280 and you and you can see this process that work 1:13:54.360 --> 1:13:56.439 in the Chinese economy back when it was you know, 1:13:56.800 --> 1:14:00.680 really growing in the nineties and two thousands. But you know, 1:14:00.840 --> 1:14:03.880 once the peasantry had been absorbed as sort of both 1:14:03.920 --> 1:14:06.280 a new market and a new labor force with lower 1:14:06.320 --> 1:14:09.599 cost of production because wages are cheaper for a bunch 1:14:09.600 --> 1:14:12.800 of structural reasons, the old tendencies of capital set in. 1:14:13.360 --> 1:14:15.519 And so what happens inside of China was what was 1:14:15.560 --> 1:14:18.640 happening everywhere else in the world, which is that as 1:14:18.720 --> 1:14:22.439 labor saving technology begins to be implemented and you know, 1:14:22.560 --> 1:14:25.599 a bunch of services refused to be turned into new 1:14:25.640 --> 1:14:29.000 goods to like bolster the ranks industrial working class. You know, 1:14:29.000 --> 1:14:30.479 you get what's happened in the US, which is this 1:14:30.479 --> 1:14:35.519 this full transition to service economy shit that doesn't actually 1:14:35.840 --> 1:14:37.320 really grow. And you know, if if you look, if 1:14:37.320 --> 1:14:39.599 you look at Chinese growth rates, like they've been slowing 1:14:39.680 --> 1:14:42.280 for a decade, actually a little bit longer than a decade. 1:14:42.520 --> 1:14:44.560 And so you know, as China was integrated to the 1:14:44.600 --> 1:14:47.640 global economy, it too became caught in this cycle of 1:14:47.640 --> 1:14:51.840 industrial booms where you know, you get an industrial boom 1:14:51.960 --> 1:14:54.519 where you have a country with favorable exchange rates, the 1:14:54.680 --> 1:14:58.519 stallar that inevitably sets off, you know, the economies of 1:14:58.560 --> 1:15:01.040 the bad end of the exchange rate to collapse as 1:15:01.120 --> 1:15:03.240 they're forced to bear the way to global lower capacity. 1:15:03.960 --> 1:15:07.439 As as I've mentioned one hundred billion times on this show, 1:15:07.479 --> 1:15:09.400 it is the one thing I will make sure every 1:15:09.400 --> 1:15:13.120 it could happen here listener will be able to explain 1:15:13.280 --> 1:15:18.080 the Plaza Accords and the Reverse Plaza Cords. You know, 1:15:18.080 --> 1:15:19.439 but this is sort of this is sort of what 1:15:19.479 --> 1:15:21.800 the Reverse Plazai Cords and the Plaza Cords were about, 1:15:21.880 --> 1:15:23.920 was the US. This is the last time the US 1:15:24.040 --> 1:15:26.920 tried to, you know, use its just sort of like 1:15:27.200 --> 1:15:31.639 pure political power and military might to be like, eat shit, 1:15:31.720 --> 1:15:33.639 I'm going to force all of your countries to fuck 1:15:33.680 --> 1:15:36.120 with your currency so that our manufacturing economy will come back. 1:15:36.760 --> 1:15:40.360 And again, the US did that successfully and the Japanese 1:15:40.360 --> 1:15:43.479 economy collapsed because we'd needcap Japanese economy to do it right. 1:15:43.720 --> 1:15:47.080 And to some extent, Trump is attempting the farce as 1:15:47.160 --> 1:15:50.640 farce version of this with with these steel teriffs. Right 1:15:50.640 --> 1:15:53.599 to some extent, these tariffs are his attempts to pull 1:15:53.680 --> 1:15:57.080 the Reagan maneuver of Okay, we can just like force 1:15:57.120 --> 1:16:01.160 other countries to lower their capacity and increase our capacity 1:16:01.160 --> 1:16:05.040 at their expense. The problem is that, again, this production 1:16:05.200 --> 1:16:09.000 is zero sum, and if you do this, it will 1:16:09.040 --> 1:16:14.160 annihilate the rest of the global economy. And this is 1:16:14.240 --> 1:16:18.200 the sort of context behind all of the stuff that 1:16:18.280 --> 1:16:21.120 we've been seeing for the last like thirty years, which 1:16:21.160 --> 1:16:25.160 that actual profit rates have been collapsing for ages, and 1:16:25.240 --> 1:16:29.800 right now we're in the middle of a just unbelievably 1:16:30.000 --> 1:16:35.320 hideously staggeringly massive bubble that is maintaining the sort of 1:16:35.439 --> 1:16:40.519 last like fake vestiges of economic growth where billions and 1:16:40.520 --> 1:16:43.400 billions and billions of dollars have been sunk into all 1:16:43.439 --> 1:16:46.000 of this AI bullshit, and it's you know, like the 1:16:46.360 --> 1:16:50.400 tech driven AI is a significant specifically, specifically the AI 1:16:50.479 --> 1:16:54.200 stuff is a significant portion of total US economic growth. 1:16:54.920 --> 1:16:57.519 If you want to listen to why that's all going 1:16:57.560 --> 1:17:01.760 to go to shit, turn on effectively literally any episode 1:17:02.000 --> 1:17:06.800 of COOLSI and Media's own Exitron's podcast Better Offline and 1:17:06.840 --> 1:17:09.559 you will you will hear a lot about this. But 1:17:09.680 --> 1:17:12.040 you know, this has been that, like tech has been 1:17:12.040 --> 1:17:14.520 sort of the escape strategy of the United States. Traditionally, 1:17:14.680 --> 1:17:17.920 it's going to implode, it's going to do tremendous damage 1:17:17.920 --> 1:17:22.000 to everyone. But in the remains of that, and in 1:17:22.040 --> 1:17:25.240 this world in which profit rates are declining, and in 1:17:25.320 --> 1:17:28.160 this world in which increasing portions of the population are 1:17:28.200 --> 1:17:32.080 being spat out of the capitalist production cycle, in which 1:17:32.200 --> 1:17:36.760 increasing percentages of the world population are being kicked into 1:17:36.760 --> 1:17:41.000 an informal economy, and in this world of generalized overproduction 1:17:41.160 --> 1:17:45.280 under consumption, what's happening is that there is an enormous 1:17:45.320 --> 1:17:48.400 effort to get everyone to think that this is because 1:17:48.439 --> 1:17:52.000 of very specific tendencies of like the bad government over there, 1:17:52.560 --> 1:17:55.880 right that you know, over capacity and steel. Oh, it's 1:17:55.960 --> 1:17:58.320 just because the like the evil communist government in China 1:17:58.520 --> 1:18:02.280 is cheating at capital by giving their companies money, and 1:18:02.320 --> 1:18:04.439 so we're gonna do tariffs on them instead of that. 1:18:05.000 --> 1:18:07.160 And again, like it's easier for these academics to make 1:18:07.160 --> 1:18:09.840 this argument because there is kind of stuff going on, right, 1:18:10.360 --> 1:18:14.160 because there is this sort of cadure evaluation stuff, because 1:18:14.200 --> 1:18:17.200 there is to some extensi a subsidization of steel production. 1:18:17.720 --> 1:18:20.720 They can present this boogeyman to sort of pin what 1:18:20.920 --> 1:18:25.960 is really a global overproduction and under consumption crisis onto 1:18:26.400 --> 1:18:29.600 just you know, it's just as government we don't like. 1:18:29.680 --> 1:18:34.640 And then you can sort of implement these ultranationalists tariff policies. 1:18:35.240 --> 1:18:40.840 It's a way of deflecting the blame from capitalism onto 1:18:40.920 --> 1:18:44.400 another country and using nationalism to paper over the actual 1:18:44.400 --> 1:18:49.439 economic contradictions of capital. And if you want to escape that, 1:18:49.600 --> 1:18:52.280 it's not enough to sort of just get rid of 1:18:52.320 --> 1:18:55.120 Trump and go back to the previous retrade regime. You 1:18:55.240 --> 1:18:59.320 have to actually structurally change the thing at the center 1:18:59.360 --> 1:19:01.120 of all of this, which is the wage relation. 1:19:01.800 --> 1:19:02.000 Right. 1:19:02.520 --> 1:19:07.600 You have to fundamentally change the fact that this economy, 1:19:07.840 --> 1:19:11.519 the entire economy, is based on there being classes of 1:19:11.560 --> 1:19:14.400 people who make money from owning things, and that there's 1:19:14.439 --> 1:19:17.880 an entire class of people whose labor is stolen every 1:19:17.880 --> 1:19:20.559 single day so that those other people can make money 1:19:20.560 --> 1:19:23.320 by owning things who do all of the actual work. 1:19:23.920 --> 1:19:29.000 And that's what's actually fundamentally at stake here. It is 1:19:29.040 --> 1:19:33.120 this question of are we going to continue to do 1:19:33.200 --> 1:19:36.679 tariff bullshit or are we going to take power from 1:19:36.760 --> 1:19:41.000 the people who caused all of this? From Trump, from 1:19:41.040 --> 1:19:44.200 Elon Musk, from all of the billionaires, from feel from 1:19:44.240 --> 1:19:46.120 all of the tech billionaires that funded them, from all 1:19:46.160 --> 1:19:49.880 of the Republican Party Cook Breathern networks. Are we going 1:19:50.000 --> 1:19:54.840 to destroy these people completely by getting rid of the 1:19:54.920 --> 1:19:59.360 social relations of capital that make this all possible. Or 1:19:59.400 --> 1:20:02.320 are we going to to sit here and let them 1:20:02.800 --> 1:20:05.880 continue to produce AI videos of them shitting all over 1:20:06.000 --> 1:20:08.880 us while they take all of our money and commit 1:20:08.960 --> 1:20:12.320 an ethnic cleansing and continue to fund genocides abroad. 1:20:29.080 --> 1:20:31.639 Hi, everyone, and welcome to the show. It's me James 1:20:31.640 --> 1:20:34.200 today and I'm very lucky to be joined again by 1:20:34.320 --> 1:20:38.200 eric A Mesa, who's the Borderlands coordinator for the Sierra Club. Eric, 1:20:38.240 --> 1:20:38.720 how are you doing. 1:20:39.000 --> 1:20:40.120 I'm doing okay, Jans. 1:20:40.120 --> 1:20:42.880 Thanks for us for the invitation, Yeah, thank you for 1:20:43.280 --> 1:20:45.680 joining us. Sadly, we don't have a lot of good 1:20:45.720 --> 1:20:49.000 stuff to talk about right now. It's pretty difficult time 1:20:49.040 --> 1:20:51.840 in the borderlands. But maybe we could start off with 1:20:51.920 --> 1:20:54.840 something that I've reported on briefly in our weekly news show. 1:20:55.120 --> 1:21:00.600 The Border Patrol is currently soliciting comment for its plans 1:21:00.640 --> 1:21:04.679 to build for the wall through the out Tide Mountain 1:21:04.760 --> 1:21:08.280 Wilderness and other areas west of Tikati, right, could you 1:21:08.320 --> 1:21:11.080 explain a little bit about what they're proposing and what 1:21:11.200 --> 1:21:12.400 consequences that will be. 1:21:12.680 --> 1:21:15.880 Yeah, well, hi, everybody so happy to be here and 1:21:16.160 --> 1:21:19.360 not so happy to be sharing the news. But so 1:21:19.479 --> 1:21:24.040 what the announcement was recently by the Border Patrol, especially 1:21:24.080 --> 1:21:27.920 on the San Diego area, is the announcement of the 1:21:28.080 --> 1:21:33.160 approximately nine point seven miles of new border barrier system 1:21:33.920 --> 1:21:38.080 and on top of that, over fifty one miles of 1:21:38.120 --> 1:21:42.880 what they call now system attributes and this is going 1:21:42.920 --> 1:21:47.200 to Kabacuche impact on the area. This is going to 1:21:47.280 --> 1:21:50.960 be about two point nine miles west of the Cut 1:21:51.120 --> 1:21:54.760 port of entry, going through an area that it is 1:21:54.960 --> 1:22:00.439 very remote mountain region and some of people and this 1:22:00.720 --> 1:22:03.840 are more familiar than I am. I've actually never been, 1:22:04.080 --> 1:22:07.800 but I've been talking to some of the local organizations, 1:22:07.840 --> 1:22:12.320 the new humanitarian aid in the region, and I know 1:22:12.439 --> 1:22:15.080 the Tekate Peak is in that area, and then you 1:22:15.120 --> 1:22:19.439 start going west into these beautiful mountains that are also 1:22:19.720 --> 1:22:23.599 the birthplace of the Tepana River. That's exactly the area 1:22:23.640 --> 1:22:27.080 where it's going to go. So right now, CVPS accepting 1:22:27.160 --> 1:22:30.479 comments and asking people in the community what kind of 1:22:30.640 --> 1:22:34.920 concerns do they have concerns in regards of the environmental 1:22:34.960 --> 1:22:38.919 impacts of a project like this, what kind of social 1:22:39.200 --> 1:22:43.439 and economical impacts? So they open up this section on 1:22:43.479 --> 1:22:47.719 their website with an email address where people can share 1:22:47.840 --> 1:22:51.080 some of these concerns. As you mentioned, and part of 1:22:51.120 --> 1:22:55.720 an environmental organization, but we also have all kinds of 1:22:55.760 --> 1:22:59.920 concerns for a project like this, including the border barrier 1:23:00.240 --> 1:23:04.400 and the system attributes, which are very poorly described for 1:23:04.560 --> 1:23:07.920 what they mean. Some of the things that they mentioned 1:23:07.960 --> 1:23:14.560 as system attributes is the increase of lighting, infrastructure, surveillance equipment, 1:23:14.960 --> 1:23:20.080 and new roads for access for border patrol vehicles. So 1:23:20.160 --> 1:23:22.640 one of the things that we're going to expect that 1:23:22.680 --> 1:23:26.439 we have seen in other areas is more blasting through 1:23:26.439 --> 1:23:29.800 the mountain, especially on areas where the mountains is so 1:23:30.720 --> 1:23:34.240 uneven the terrain, there is a lot of heavy machinery 1:23:34.479 --> 1:23:37.960 it has to come into those places to start bulldozing 1:23:38.680 --> 1:23:41.920 to level the terrain so they can start building this 1:23:42.120 --> 1:23:45.880 border wall. So we can expect some of that, and 1:23:46.040 --> 1:23:49.040 with that come a lot of issues because there's going 1:23:49.120 --> 1:23:51.960 to be the need to start drilling wells at the 1:23:52.000 --> 1:23:55.920 border to extract the water from mixing the concrete for 1:23:56.000 --> 1:23:59.240 the foundation. If there was any road out there, they're 1:23:59.240 --> 1:24:02.120 going to probably widen the road two or three times 1:24:02.400 --> 1:24:06.439 to allow this. Having machinery to access these remote areas, 1:24:07.120 --> 1:24:11.000 this is just going to be the beginning, just setting 1:24:11.080 --> 1:24:15.720 up the panels. But whenever you go to these places 1:24:15.760 --> 1:24:19.960 and start disturbing the native soil, you can expect all 1:24:20.040 --> 1:24:25.480 kinds of consequences in regards so invasive species of plants. 1:24:25.520 --> 1:24:31.480 You can also expect so floating and removal of native vegetation. 1:24:31.760 --> 1:24:34.519 In some cases, there is some species that are rare 1:24:34.600 --> 1:24:38.200 on the area that having these impacts you know, can 1:24:38.240 --> 1:24:41.240 be long lasting for them to be able to recover. 1:24:41.320 --> 1:24:44.280 If they're able to do so the area on the 1:24:44.360 --> 1:24:46.280 south side of the border, there is also an area 1:24:46.320 --> 1:24:49.680 where animals need to be moving back on course, so 1:24:50.360 --> 1:24:55.000 species like the native mule deer, a colony that leaves there. 1:24:55.840 --> 1:24:59.639 There is a mountain lion and other species of mammals 1:24:59.720 --> 1:25:04.760 pre much everything that is for inches, why it's not 1:25:04.840 --> 1:25:06.599 going to be able to make it do that border 1:25:06.640 --> 1:25:10.280 will Yeah. So yeah, we're just raising these concerns and 1:25:10.360 --> 1:25:13.679 sharing with the community so they're able to also as well. 1:25:14.120 --> 1:25:17.360 And an email to CVP crostoms and water but no 1:25:17.680 --> 1:25:21.120 and express these concerns and also to remember that these 1:25:21.160 --> 1:25:26.160 areas have been sacred size for the indigenous communities Diamond Memorial, 1:25:26.320 --> 1:25:31.320 so we might lose some very sacred sides for the 1:25:31.439 --> 1:25:33.120 tribes forever. 1:25:33.760 --> 1:25:35.719 Yeah, Like I know the topic ta cut the mountain 1:25:35.800 --> 1:25:40.519 has been sacred to Kumiai. People believe it's Tuma in Kumiai, 1:25:40.680 --> 1:25:42.519 but it's been sacred to them for as you say, 1:25:42.640 --> 1:25:45.240 much longer than this has been the United States. 1:25:45.400 --> 1:25:45.960 That's correct. 1:25:46.520 --> 1:25:48.400 You and I have both seen it in different places. 1:25:48.479 --> 1:25:48.599 Right. 1:25:48.640 --> 1:25:53.400 The damage that the border will does not just to people. 1:25:53.800 --> 1:25:57.880 I've seen mule deer running along it like trying to 1:25:57.960 --> 1:25:59.760 the clearly trying to find a way through. Right, this 1:25:59.840 --> 1:26:04.559 is habitual pathway. There are some areas near, very very 1:26:04.640 --> 1:26:06.160 near the boarder, like within one hundred yards of the border, 1:26:06.160 --> 1:26:08.639 where there are naturally occurring creeks and little ponds which 1:26:08.640 --> 1:26:11.600 will hold water at a time when water can be 1:26:11.680 --> 1:26:14.719 very hard to come across here. And so I've seen 1:26:14.840 --> 1:26:19.000 deer kind of distraught almost trying to get to this 1:26:19.040 --> 1:26:21.360 place where they've obviously learned that they can get water, 1:26:21.520 --> 1:26:24.160 but now they can't. It's really heartbreaking, on top of 1:26:24.200 --> 1:26:27.640 all the other cruelty that it does. I suppose we 1:26:27.640 --> 1:26:29.840 should address, Like I'm not sure how much we can 1:26:29.880 --> 1:26:33.639 accomplish by the comment period, right, but it has value nonetheless, 1:26:33.720 --> 1:26:36.439 like trying to do something, I think it has value. 1:26:36.920 --> 1:26:39.479 It shows that we didn't let this just happen. 1:26:40.120 --> 1:26:43.960 Yeah, that's right. I honestly am not very hopeful from 1:26:44.040 --> 1:26:47.040 those common periods because this is not the first time 1:26:47.160 --> 1:26:51.479 they're asking the community to provide input, and with past 1:26:51.560 --> 1:26:55.439 experiences that we have organized in all other areas, other 1:26:55.479 --> 1:26:59.240 segments of the world, even in all states, we haven't 1:26:59.280 --> 1:27:03.720 get a response even or an acknowledgment of these concerns. 1:27:04.120 --> 1:27:07.720 So Dalva itself is really concerning, but I think it 1:27:07.800 --> 1:27:11.479 is important that the communities around these areas are aware 1:27:11.760 --> 1:27:16.000 about this and they get involved, and that there is 1:27:16.040 --> 1:27:21.120 this community sentiment against this abuse of power that the 1:27:21.160 --> 1:27:24.599 administration continues to do, and the border lands and using 1:27:24.640 --> 1:27:28.360 them as the sacrifice zone as these testing grounds for 1:27:28.560 --> 1:27:33.679 what can potentially continue to happen or expand not only 1:27:33.720 --> 1:27:36.519 on the border but in other series, like we are 1:27:36.640 --> 1:27:40.000 seeing with the span of militarization nowadays. 1:27:40.280 --> 1:27:42.760 Yeah, definitely, like all the stuff that is really bad 1:27:42.800 --> 1:27:45.639 in America right now, like it started at the border, 1:27:45.800 --> 1:27:48.599 that's right. People are seeing it in their communities now, 1:27:48.640 --> 1:27:50.880 but like we've been seeing it where we live for 1:27:50.920 --> 1:27:53.320 a long time. Can we talk a little bit about 1:27:53.520 --> 1:27:57.040 there's been some other construction right then, with San Diego 1:27:57.120 --> 1:27:59.400 is not the only place right now that there's a 1:27:59.400 --> 1:28:03.679 significant Dieditetree allocation to construction a border barrier, and there's 1:28:03.720 --> 1:28:06.760 more construction east of San Diego. 1:28:06.439 --> 1:28:10.880 Right, Yeah, that's that's right. Most of the construction that 1:28:11.040 --> 1:28:14.760 is happening right now, it was with all funding that 1:28:15.040 --> 1:28:19.440 was from the twenty twenty one funds that were available 1:28:20.120 --> 1:28:23.559 since the first Rump administration, So we were hoping that 1:28:23.560 --> 1:28:26.160 that was going to be like the end of the funding. 1:28:26.800 --> 1:28:31.960 But since the proposal and passing of the quote unquote 1:28:31.960 --> 1:28:36.160 big beautiful Bill, we've got to remind ourselves that now 1:28:36.200 --> 1:28:42.720 the administration has allocated forty six point five billion dollars 1:28:42.880 --> 1:28:50.040 for border security, and that includes border barriers and system attributes, 1:28:50.200 --> 1:28:54.040 so pretty much anything related to border security right now, 1:28:54.080 --> 1:28:56.200 they have the funding to do it. They pretty much 1:28:56.280 --> 1:28:59.720 out the funding to put a double wall across the 1:28:59.800 --> 1:29:03.800 whole US Mexico border. Yeah, so that's that's huge. You know, 1:29:04.400 --> 1:29:08.000 In recent days, we got a new wave of contracts 1:29:08.040 --> 1:29:12.560 that were awarded. In October ten, we got this announcement 1:29:12.840 --> 1:29:17.000 that out of this funding, the forty six point five billion, 1:29:17.080 --> 1:29:20.280 they are located for a little bit over four billion, 1:29:20.600 --> 1:29:24.120 and this will fund them two hundred and thirty miles 1:29:24.439 --> 1:29:29.080 of new physical barriers and four hundred miles of surveillance 1:29:29.160 --> 1:29:34.920 technology across the US Mexico border from California New Texas. 1:29:35.160 --> 1:29:39.800 That's and they put up a new section on their 1:29:39.840 --> 1:29:43.680 website where there is a map you can navigate. It's 1:29:43.720 --> 1:29:47.080 an interactive map that shows every single section of the 1:29:47.160 --> 1:29:51.479 border and what they're planning to do with and as 1:29:51.479 --> 1:29:54.880 surreal as it sounds, they are planning to double up 1:29:54.920 --> 1:29:58.360 the wall. So in some places, in remote areas in 1:29:58.360 --> 1:30:03.559 the desert, like in organ Pai National Monument or Caveca 1:30:03.600 --> 1:30:08.720 Prieta in Arizona. In those areas, there is plans to 1:30:08.800 --> 1:30:12.679 build a secondary wall. So on top of the thirty 1:30:12.720 --> 1:30:15.800 food barrier that they have, they're planning to do a 1:30:15.840 --> 1:30:16.759 second one. 1:30:17.000 --> 1:30:19.680 Yeah, we have that semi seedarl right, we have a 1:30:19.680 --> 1:30:20.880 double thirty foot barrier. 1:30:21.000 --> 1:30:21.280 Yeah. 1:30:21.520 --> 1:30:26.440 The Biden administration used it to corral people seeking asylum. 1:30:26.520 --> 1:30:28.879 Right that they kept them in between the two walls 1:30:29.280 --> 1:30:32.000 and then denied that they were in detention. I don't 1:30:32.000 --> 1:30:34.120 know if we'll see that again, but like I guess 1:30:34.160 --> 1:30:37.120 just from my own experience, you know, participating in util 1:30:37.120 --> 1:30:39.800 aid along the border, like those remote desert areas are 1:30:39.840 --> 1:30:43.240 where people go. When we build wall in Otai, right, 1:30:43.479 --> 1:30:48.080 when we continue to detain and turn people back in 1:30:48.280 --> 1:30:51.240 less remote areas, they will take the risk of going 1:30:51.240 --> 1:30:54.559 to a more remote area and forcing people into those 1:30:54.600 --> 1:30:58.920 remote areas and then constructing barriers there too, is just 1:30:58.960 --> 1:31:00.680 going to cause more deaths. Said, it's not going to 1:31:00.760 --> 1:31:05.439 stop people trying to come because there are things that 1:31:05.439 --> 1:31:08.000 they are living which are terrible, but it will mean 1:31:08.000 --> 1:31:09.840 that they get stuck out there in the heat without 1:31:09.840 --> 1:31:10.920 water for longer rain. 1:31:11.560 --> 1:31:14.680 That's correct game. So exactly what you said people in 1:31:14.760 --> 1:31:18.799 San Diego in like the border in Otai, you already 1:31:18.840 --> 1:31:21.840 have the double walls, so you know, like having this 1:31:22.040 --> 1:31:25.400 hyper mac miilitarized area and how that is going to 1:31:25.479 --> 1:31:28.879 expand and the consequences of that is, as you mentioned, 1:31:28.880 --> 1:31:33.559 you push people out further more remote areas, and two 1:31:33.600 --> 1:31:36.519 things happen by doing that. First and most important, more 1:31:36.560 --> 1:31:41.160 people die. But also remember that these areas, like these 1:31:41.200 --> 1:31:45.640 remote areas were also like semi priestine wildlife environments that 1:31:45.840 --> 1:31:49.920 you never had humans moving through before. Now, as people 1:31:49.960 --> 1:31:52.920 have been pushed to these remote areas, you have this 1:31:53.080 --> 1:31:56.519 human traffic and not only migrants moving through, but you 1:31:56.560 --> 1:31:59.679 also have the border patrol chasing these migrants. And now 1:31:59.720 --> 1:32:03.160 you have border patrol wanting to build new roads to 1:32:03.280 --> 1:32:07.919 these wilderness areas. And all of these just gives building 1:32:08.040 --> 1:32:12.720 up into what's already a very fragmented landscape. So by 1:32:12.760 --> 1:32:17.599 adding all these quote unquote system attributes, because you're pushing 1:32:17.920 --> 1:32:22.160 and pushing people further and building these doggle walls, it's 1:32:22.280 --> 1:32:28.200 just going to end the last of the remaining wildlife 1:32:28.600 --> 1:32:33.240 remote migration corridors as well. So the impacts that this 1:32:33.439 --> 1:32:34.639 is going to help are huge. 1:32:34.920 --> 1:32:38.040 Yeah, yeah, for like all living creatures. As you said, 1:32:38.400 --> 1:32:41.000 let's take a break, Eric, we'll come back and talk 1:32:41.040 --> 1:32:55.599 about it small. All right, we are back. Let's talk 1:32:55.600 --> 1:32:59.720 about like how people are organizing right like at this 1:32:59.800 --> 1:33:02.760 time time when it does seem really bleak at the 1:33:02.760 --> 1:33:06.120 border lands, Like the Trump administration didn't really construct very 1:33:06.200 --> 1:33:10.080 much war in its first iteration. It did construct a bit, 1:33:10.320 --> 1:33:13.080 but not as much as it wanted to. And you 1:33:13.120 --> 1:33:15.479 and I are both very familiar with the consequences that 1:33:15.520 --> 1:33:18.760 has had, right Like it has caused more people to die. 1:33:19.000 --> 1:33:23.640 The Biden administration continue constructing and quote unquote repairing border barriers. 1:33:24.360 --> 1:33:28.320 They also pioneered outdoor attention, and like it just seems 1:33:28.360 --> 1:33:31.240 like things with whoever gets elected, but more rapidly under 1:33:31.280 --> 1:33:35.960 Republicans get worse. What are people able to do? When 1:33:36.000 --> 1:33:37.600 We've spoken about this a lot on this show, but 1:33:38.000 --> 1:33:39.479 I'd love to hear your perspective too. 1:33:40.240 --> 1:33:44.560 It's been hard, honestly as a person working on environmental 1:33:44.640 --> 1:33:50.719 issues in the border because definitely, like the losers are 1:33:51.640 --> 1:33:54.000 much more than the wind sometimes, so that can be 1:33:54.040 --> 1:33:58.000 dis hard to end. Yeah, there has been some glimpses 1:33:58.040 --> 1:34:01.479 of hope. I think one of the things that we 1:34:01.560 --> 1:34:05.639 did here in Arizona that was definitely felt really good 1:34:05.720 --> 1:34:08.200 and gave us some hope is when the governor of 1:34:08.240 --> 1:34:13.160 Arizona decided to put some chipping containers and make its 1:34:13.200 --> 1:34:17.400 own makeshift wall. So a bunch of people really came 1:34:17.479 --> 1:34:21.200 together on the community outrage because this was just some 1:34:21.680 --> 1:34:25.640 really dumb idea and one of the most remote, beautiful 1:34:25.680 --> 1:34:28.720 areas where there is not even people moving through and 1:34:28.840 --> 1:34:33.000 it was just going to destroy the environment. And the 1:34:33.040 --> 1:34:38.040 governor went out there and spent two hundred million dollars 1:34:38.080 --> 1:34:42.400 of taxpayers money to buy these shipping containers and build 1:34:42.479 --> 1:34:47.599 this border wall. So we were actually all the community 1:34:47.640 --> 1:34:50.200 came together, We show up out there in the and 1:34:50.240 --> 1:34:52.640 stopped the machines and we said no, you're not going 1:34:52.720 --> 1:34:56.679 to move any further. And because what they were doing 1:34:56.880 --> 1:34:59.720 was actually illegal, we were able to get away with it. 1:35:01.439 --> 1:35:06.479 Those chipping containers are gone right now. Still, Arizona taxs 1:35:06.520 --> 1:35:10.559 payer paid two hundred million dollars to destroy their own 1:35:10.680 --> 1:35:14.200 environment just let that same thing we can be using 1:35:14.280 --> 1:35:19.439 that money for much better things. So I think that 1:35:19.840 --> 1:35:25.320 president and that movement, that sense of community that was 1:35:25.400 --> 1:35:31.240 built after that resistance, it is, has continued after that. 1:35:31.520 --> 1:35:35.320 Like there is a lot of self organized grassroots efforts 1:35:35.439 --> 1:35:40.200 going on for border resistance, you know, and that encompasses 1:35:40.280 --> 1:35:47.560 humanitarian groups, environmental groups, and we are also organizing nowadays 1:35:47.640 --> 1:35:53.240 here in Arizona to do some direct action, try to 1:35:53.280 --> 1:35:55.400 show up to the center of a valley which is 1:35:55.439 --> 1:35:59.040 where the border construction is going, and started raising some 1:35:59.200 --> 1:36:04.000 national attach to this issue, trying to invite our politicians, 1:36:04.160 --> 1:36:08.640 start invited our our native communities to speak out and 1:36:08.720 --> 1:36:13.720 using different methods such as art performance, bring up some 1:36:14.160 --> 1:36:18.280 different strategies together. You know. Now with the technology that 1:36:18.360 --> 1:36:21.000 we have available, is that how can we make these 1:36:21.040 --> 1:36:25.360 more mainstream and tell people across the nation what's going 1:36:25.400 --> 1:36:27.680 on and these remote areas. You know a lot of 1:36:27.800 --> 1:36:31.800 people a lot of connection to this valley, and this 1:36:32.040 --> 1:36:35.920 is the headwaters of the Santa Cluz River, the lifeblood 1:36:36.000 --> 1:36:41.400 of many communities across the southern Arizona. And at the 1:36:41.479 --> 1:36:43.840 same time, on the other side of the coin, you know, 1:36:43.960 --> 1:36:48.040 there is all the oppression by the government to anything 1:36:48.120 --> 1:36:51.120 that is against their will. So a lot of people 1:36:51.240 --> 1:36:57.000 feel a little bit afraid of showing up to direct action. Yeah, 1:36:57.080 --> 1:37:01.080 so it is it's just walking that fine line or 1:37:01.680 --> 1:37:05.240 what can we get away with and still be able 1:37:05.280 --> 1:37:10.360 to make a ball statement and show opposition without putting 1:37:10.360 --> 1:37:11.240 people in danger. 1:37:12.080 --> 1:37:14.000 Yeah. Yeah, I think that is something a lot of 1:37:14.000 --> 1:37:17.120 people are really worried about. But it is important within 1:37:17.760 --> 1:37:19.639 the realm of things that we can do to show 1:37:19.640 --> 1:37:22.800 our opposition to this and to stand in solidarity with 1:37:23.680 --> 1:37:28.400 the animals and the indigenous people whose sacred spaces are 1:37:28.400 --> 1:37:32.320 being defiled, right and with migrants whose lives are being 1:37:32.320 --> 1:37:36.840 put in danger by this. I wonder, like, I find 1:37:36.840 --> 1:37:39.200 it so strange. I guess that like we're at a 1:37:39.240 --> 1:37:42.000 time when reporting on migration is becoming like like a 1:37:42.040 --> 1:37:45.600 major growth industry. I guess, editors who I could not 1:37:45.840 --> 1:37:48.080 get to respond to an email or pick up the 1:37:48.080 --> 1:37:50.639 phone for the last four years and now commissioning pieces 1:37:50.680 --> 1:37:54.120 of migration. But there still seems to be like a 1:37:54.160 --> 1:37:59.759 blind spot about the border in the American news media. 1:38:00.600 --> 1:38:02.080 I don't know why that is. I don't know if 1:38:02.120 --> 1:38:04.160 you have ideas about why there is, But the borderlands 1:38:04.160 --> 1:38:06.840 are such a special place for me anyway, you know, 1:38:06.880 --> 1:38:09.840 I've spent nearly twenty years of my life here. Some 1:38:09.920 --> 1:38:13.240 of my favorite places in the world are near the border. 1:38:13.920 --> 1:38:15.960 I think people think of the border as like Santi Zero, 1:38:16.080 --> 1:38:19.040 but it contains some wonderfully remote and special places. And 1:38:19.120 --> 1:38:23.479 I wonder if you have thoughts on why, like the 1:38:23.520 --> 1:38:27.000 border isn't something that gets talked about that much on 1:38:27.040 --> 1:38:27.880 a national level. 1:38:29.439 --> 1:38:35.440 I think it does talk about, but unfortunately the narrative, 1:38:35.640 --> 1:38:39.680 the digitian build around it is really negative. 1:38:40.160 --> 1:38:42.880 Yeah, that's fair, and of course that's. 1:38:42.520 --> 1:38:47.800 With that intention, right, continue to build up this militarized 1:38:47.840 --> 1:38:52.200 state or sacrifice zone. And so whenever I talk with 1:38:52.400 --> 1:38:55.120 people that is here for the first time, you know, 1:38:55.439 --> 1:38:59.360 I do these group presentations for delegations that come from 1:38:59.360 --> 1:39:04.200 all over the to experience the Borderlands region, and they're 1:39:04.240 --> 1:39:07.439 like they have all these perspective, you know, for what 1:39:07.479 --> 1:39:10.800 they hear on the news about how horrible this is, 1:39:10.960 --> 1:39:14.599 and then they come here and they're like, Wow, people 1:39:14.640 --> 1:39:19.240 here is like really nice and we have a great experience, 1:39:19.360 --> 1:39:23.920 and I really inspire and it's like coming with this 1:39:24.600 --> 1:39:30.760 pre fabricated narrative on their minds of this wasteland sacrifice zone, 1:39:30.880 --> 1:39:35.040 you know, like and then going out after experience and yes, 1:39:35.240 --> 1:39:38.360 some of that, of course, if you go out to 1:39:38.439 --> 1:39:42.479 the to the border and experience the wall and the 1:39:42.960 --> 1:39:45.920 rolls and rolls of concerts in a wired to make 1:39:46.000 --> 1:39:48.880 it look like you're in a war zone. Yeah, the 1:39:49.400 --> 1:39:51.760 plows what you already have in your mind. You know, 1:39:51.800 --> 1:39:56.040 it just keeps building up the intensity. And then you 1:39:56.160 --> 1:40:00.680 hear the stories from people, the struggle, from my grants 1:40:00.720 --> 1:40:04.000 and stories from back in twenty twenty three when we 1:40:04.120 --> 1:40:07.679 have the search of migrants coming and all these things, 1:40:07.680 --> 1:40:11.679 you know, but at the end, people leaves with glimbs 1:40:11.760 --> 1:40:15.040 also like, wow, this place is really beautiful and a 1:40:15.040 --> 1:40:18.600 lot of wonderful things are happening, a lot of movements 1:40:18.640 --> 1:40:23.200 of people trying to organize and make it a better 1:40:23.240 --> 1:40:26.599 place and trying really hard to shift this narrative. You know. 1:40:26.720 --> 1:40:30.920 The borlands provide us a good opportunity, you know, because 1:40:31.360 --> 1:40:33.960 what we see today, like a friend of mine said, 1:40:34.000 --> 1:40:38.200 it can get worse, and it's going into that direction. Yeah, yeah, 1:40:38.240 --> 1:40:42.120 it's going into that direction. But at the same time, 1:40:42.280 --> 1:40:45.559 it gives us an opportunity as a society, you know, 1:40:45.760 --> 1:40:50.080 because whatever happens at the border is definitely going to 1:40:50.120 --> 1:40:52.639 have a ripple effect in the rest of the country. 1:40:53.120 --> 1:40:57.320 So we are able to figure out a way to 1:40:57.360 --> 1:41:01.800 shift that narrative and look at the border like like 1:41:02.160 --> 1:41:05.280 people that lives and experience the word there and the 1:41:05.320 --> 1:41:08.719 culture of the beautiful things that the border has to offer. 1:41:08.920 --> 1:41:12.439 Then we hope that that's going to help change a 1:41:12.479 --> 1:41:14.839 lot of the things that are happening in this country. 1:41:14.840 --> 1:41:17.960 You know, but we need to start I think organizing 1:41:18.080 --> 1:41:20.799 from the bottom up. Yeah, a lot of grassroots therefore 1:41:20.920 --> 1:41:22.960 need to be happening, and I think a lot of 1:41:23.040 --> 1:41:26.759 media needs to cover this. You know, we usually don't 1:41:26.760 --> 1:41:28.439 cover the good stories. 1:41:28.000 --> 1:41:31.400 So yeah, yeah, you're right. Like it's funny that the 1:41:31.479 --> 1:41:33.519 right does cover the body, right, or that the you know, 1:41:33.560 --> 1:41:36.400 the Fox News kind of cardre does cover the body, 1:41:36.520 --> 1:41:39.280 Like I don't like the way they cover it, but like, 1:41:39.960 --> 1:41:43.160 the only national network guy I will see down there 1:41:43.920 --> 1:41:57.720 is the Fox guy for the most part. And the 1:41:57.840 --> 1:42:00.439 one thing I like to do with my friends, or 1:42:00.439 --> 1:42:02.240 like if someone comes to visit, you know, sometimes I 1:42:02.280 --> 1:42:05.880 have other independent journalists come visit to walk down to 1:42:05.920 --> 1:42:08.559 the border wall, and it seems very bleak, right because 1:42:08.560 --> 1:42:10.599 there's this big wall and it's covered in constantina wire, 1:42:10.600 --> 1:42:12.799 as you say, and maybe they are Marines or National 1:42:12.800 --> 1:42:17.360 Guard or Order patrol or any other leg it's people 1:42:17.360 --> 1:42:20.519 with guns right in different uniforms. But then if you 1:42:20.560 --> 1:42:24.360 turn around, you're in this really special place where you 1:42:24.400 --> 1:42:26.679 don't see the people and you just you can appreciate 1:42:26.720 --> 1:42:29.519 how beautiful it is. It's also very beautiful that, like 1:42:29.560 --> 1:42:32.439 you say, there's so much bottom up organizing, that there's 1:42:32.520 --> 1:42:37.200 so much people helping people of all different kinds. And 1:42:37.360 --> 1:42:40.679 that's something we also are in twenty twenty three, when 1:42:41.120 --> 1:42:45.160 Title forty two ended and subsequently the Biden administration detained 1:42:45.160 --> 1:42:49.400 people outdoors, like we saw an incredible community response of 1:42:49.600 --> 1:42:53.799 all different kinds of people of different political persuasions, different 1:42:53.840 --> 1:42:56.559 faith groups, which was a really beautiful thing. Like it's 1:42:56.600 --> 1:42:59.439 a thing that a lot of the rest of America 1:42:59.520 --> 1:43:03.599 right now I could learn from the government was brutalizing people, 1:43:03.760 --> 1:43:06.400 and people made that less bad. They kept them safe, 1:43:06.720 --> 1:43:08.840 and they'd been a lot more people who didn't make 1:43:08.840 --> 1:43:11.560 it throughout all attention if it wasn't for community support, 1:43:11.600 --> 1:43:16.160 like I want people to see that. I wonder if 1:43:16.160 --> 1:43:18.679 people want to support right, let's say they're not in 1:43:18.760 --> 1:43:21.640 the border lands. Can you think of good ways for 1:43:21.680 --> 1:43:24.439 them to be in solidarity, for them to even to 1:43:24.560 --> 1:43:26.800 experience like I know a lot of people who listen 1:43:26.840 --> 1:43:30.080 to this have come, like It's really wonderful for me 1:43:30.840 --> 1:43:33.800 to meet people when I'm not working, when I'm just 1:43:33.800 --> 1:43:35.840 out there in my capacity as someone who cares about 1:43:35.880 --> 1:43:40.640 other people, right doing water drops, doing mutul aid with migrants, 1:43:40.760 --> 1:43:43.240 or helping people at street release. To hear of people 1:43:43.240 --> 1:43:45.280 who listen to this and then decided to come from 1:43:45.320 --> 1:43:47.240 wherever they were and spend some time here and help, Like, 1:43:47.280 --> 1:43:50.400 that's a really a special thing. But you have other 1:43:50.479 --> 1:43:53.400 ideas on how people can can be in solidarity and 1:43:53.600 --> 1:43:54.320 can come and help. 1:43:55.120 --> 1:43:58.840 Yeah, definitely, again this question where we are and from 1:43:59.160 --> 1:44:04.040 different people that comes to busy. I usually recommend people 1:44:04.080 --> 1:44:06.720 to start with they are, you know, in their own communities, 1:44:07.360 --> 1:44:12.720 because there is reflections of border issues in your own community. 1:44:13.720 --> 1:44:18.519 There are people that are migrating that are might need 1:44:18.600 --> 1:44:24.679 some help. There are people that shelters and all these 1:44:25.000 --> 1:44:27.599 or just kind of only get involved with your local 1:44:28.560 --> 1:44:31.120 whatever you're passionate about. You know, it doesn't really have 1:44:31.280 --> 1:44:34.720 to be an environmental issue, but we are remember and 1:44:35.280 --> 1:44:38.080 social justice and environmental justice is the same thing. 1:44:38.240 --> 1:44:44.680 Yeah, we really like whatever you're passionate about, just getting involved, 1:44:44.680 --> 1:44:47.800 But I think the worst thing that we can do 1:44:48.000 --> 1:44:50.280 right now is just doing in order the fact that 1:44:50.800 --> 1:44:52.320 we are in a bad spot, you know. 1:44:52.560 --> 1:44:55.960 I think a lot of people just want to continue 1:44:55.960 --> 1:45:01.200 writing their comfort song wave and it's that it's gonna end, 1:45:01.560 --> 1:45:04.719 you know. And I think we need to not only 1:45:04.760 --> 1:45:07.600 think about ourselves, but we need to think about the 1:45:07.680 --> 1:45:11.800 generations coming ahead of us. And I think it's especially 1:45:11.880 --> 1:45:15.960 for the people that us already had the opportunity to 1:45:16.120 --> 1:45:18.920 somehow live a life, you know, but there are somes 1:45:18.920 --> 1:45:21.920 that are about to start a journey, and I think 1:45:21.960 --> 1:45:25.600 it's our responsibility to make it the best as we 1:45:25.720 --> 1:45:28.880 can for them as well. So whatever you're passionate about, 1:45:29.040 --> 1:45:31.320 and if you really want to and you're passionate about 1:45:31.479 --> 1:45:35.519 order related issues and you're not able to come, try 1:45:35.640 --> 1:45:38.559 to support, you know, like financial help is, you know, 1:45:39.320 --> 1:45:41.840 we like it or not. We're in a capitalist society 1:45:41.880 --> 1:45:45.200 and we work with financial support. So a lot of 1:45:45.200 --> 1:45:48.440 these events that we're creating, a lot of these outreach 1:45:48.560 --> 1:45:51.840 that we're doing a lot of the people, like new 1:45:51.920 --> 1:45:57.160 generations that need jobs, that are wanting to join, like 1:45:57.479 --> 1:46:00.240 let maybe a non profit work or create the own 1:46:00.320 --> 1:46:04.880 movement or doing something related that's going to help the community. Yeah. 1:46:04.920 --> 1:46:07.599 So for those if you are able, those are really 1:46:07.640 --> 1:46:10.400 good ways to get involved and make them change. 1:46:10.880 --> 1:46:13.160 Yeah, definitely, Like there's a lot of things you can do, 1:46:13.240 --> 1:46:16.000 as you say, and I think it does help to 1:46:16.080 --> 1:46:19.080 build that networks of caring for people everywhere. Like, we 1:46:19.120 --> 1:46:20.720 want to live in a world where people take care 1:46:20.760 --> 1:46:22.400 of one another, and to do that, we have to 1:46:22.800 --> 1:46:25.280 start it everywhere. It's not like the border is the 1:46:25.320 --> 1:46:27.680 only place where bad things are happening. I know we 1:46:27.800 --> 1:46:30.360 draw a lot of strengths as people who live at 1:46:30.360 --> 1:46:33.160 the border from that solidarity, but also from seeing people 1:46:33.800 --> 1:46:36.240 do their own things wherever they're at. Like that is 1:46:36.280 --> 1:46:39.000 how we build a world where systems of oppression of 1:46:40.040 --> 1:46:41.479 let's able to oppress people. 1:46:42.000 --> 1:46:46.000 So yeah, And one of the things we see here, 1:46:46.040 --> 1:46:50.240 most of the decisions taken for the border are not 1:46:50.400 --> 1:46:53.479 taken by people from the border. A lot of these 1:46:53.560 --> 1:46:58.120 big all these decisions, like for example, Senator of Utah 1:46:58.200 --> 1:47:00.559 right now is putting up a bill for. 1:47:00.800 --> 1:47:03.800 The boarder to sacrifice a lot of public lands for 1:47:03.960 --> 1:47:08.880 new roads, and like new military installations. So it's like 1:47:09.520 --> 1:47:12.799 people from Utah are not directly on the border, but yeah, 1:47:12.880 --> 1:47:17.240 they can also send letters and comments or both these 1:47:17.280 --> 1:47:21.600 senators out, you know, and somebody that really cares for 1:47:21.760 --> 1:47:22.480 the environment. 1:47:23.000 --> 1:47:27.000 Yeah, if you're in Utah, your senator has been advocating 1:47:27.040 --> 1:47:29.240 to sell off the public lands that you own. That 1:47:29.320 --> 1:47:31.040 has said that, I mean their native land. It's all 1:47:31.120 --> 1:47:34.840 native land. It should be returned to its original custodians. 1:47:34.880 --> 1:47:36.840 But in the meantime, you own it and at least 1:47:36.840 --> 1:47:39.519 all of us can access it until Mike Lee gets 1:47:39.560 --> 1:47:41.439 his chance to sell it all off to his buddies 1:47:41.479 --> 1:47:44.320 in real estate. And like, you could be an extremely 1:47:44.400 --> 1:47:46.960 conservative person and we could disagree on a lot of shit, 1:47:47.040 --> 1:47:49.080 and I think we could find unity on that. Like, 1:47:49.800 --> 1:47:53.760 I do not understand how there is a constituency that 1:47:53.840 --> 1:47:57.320 wants to take land from the public domain and turn 1:47:57.360 --> 1:48:00.600 it into a military basis and or or fields and 1:48:00.880 --> 1:48:03.280 mcmhonsions for rich people to have as their second home. 1:48:03.479 --> 1:48:07.080 Like that should be it's a thing that everyone agrees on. 1:48:07.200 --> 1:48:09.080 And like he didn't stick the landing on it the 1:48:09.080 --> 1:48:13.160 first time in the reconciliation. The quote unquote, big beautiful 1:48:13.200 --> 1:48:16.240 Bill but I think that's a really good area towe 1:48:16.280 --> 1:48:18.479 engage people, folks who might not be like, yeah, I 1:48:18.479 --> 1:48:21.519 will show up for migrants. I think a lot of people. 1:48:22.000 --> 1:48:24.479 They could be people who enjoy the outdoors, people who 1:48:24.560 --> 1:48:28.320 just care about the environment, the Hook and Bullet crowd, like, 1:48:28.479 --> 1:48:30.120 there are a lot of people even if they don't 1:48:30.360 --> 1:48:33.560 quote unquote use public lands, like we all benefit from 1:48:33.560 --> 1:48:36.479 being there and future generation to benefit from them remaining 1:48:37.120 --> 1:48:40.439 un developed in a in a substantial way. 1:48:40.840 --> 1:48:41.400 That's right. 1:48:41.680 --> 1:48:43.160 Sorry, I just went off. And when that guy really 1:48:43.160 --> 1:48:47.160 pisses me off. This shit makes me so mad. Coming 1:48:47.200 --> 1:48:49.559 from a country that is entirely private land, it is 1:48:49.600 --> 1:48:51.640 to see someone being like, yeah, that's a good idea. 1:48:52.240 --> 1:48:53.760 It's fucking asinine. 1:48:54.280 --> 1:48:54.479 Eric. 1:48:54.680 --> 1:48:56.840 I wonder if people want to keep up with the 1:48:56.880 --> 1:49:00.160 Sierra Club, keep up with like, how they can the 1:49:00.200 --> 1:49:02.840 opposition comments If they want to know more about this 1:49:03.040 --> 1:49:05.880 new border construction and the impact would have, where can 1:49:05.920 --> 1:49:08.439 they Where can they follow along? Is their website or 1:49:08.479 --> 1:49:09.120 social media? 1:49:09.800 --> 1:49:12.080 Yeah, James, thanks to you. Yeah, we do have all 1:49:12.120 --> 1:49:15.160 of it. We try to engage people where they are, 1:49:15.960 --> 1:49:18.760 and we know social media is a powerful tool. We 1:49:18.880 --> 1:49:22.479 have a website Circulu Border LANs, people can look up 1:49:22.560 --> 1:49:24.559 some of the work that we do there. We are 1:49:24.600 --> 1:49:29.760 also active on social media. We are cir Club Borderlands. 1:49:30.120 --> 1:49:33.120 However you look at it, you're going to find find us. 1:49:33.720 --> 1:49:36.680 We're based out of Arizona, but we do organize in 1:49:36.760 --> 1:49:40.439 different states, so we're in collaboration with all organizations as 1:49:40.479 --> 1:49:44.599 part of a larger coalition. So even if you are 1:49:44.640 --> 1:49:48.759 in Texas or New Mexico, feel pretty too, very child 1:49:49.640 --> 1:49:54.960 and if you have any concerns ideas things that come 1:49:55.040 --> 1:49:57.680 up to your mind that can maakeure the border of 1:49:57.720 --> 1:50:00.840 airplace feel pretty for a feretty to reach out, then 1:50:01.520 --> 1:50:05.479 we can collaborate work together on this or LEAs connecting 1:50:05.600 --> 1:50:07.760 with some of the local people that are part of 1:50:07.800 --> 1:50:12.479 the network. Because we're always looking to make this network bigger. 1:50:12.600 --> 1:50:15.559 You know, I think there's trending numbers. I'm going to 1:50:15.600 --> 1:50:19.559 get more and more people to join this coalition in 1:50:19.600 --> 1:50:23.280 the different states. So even if you're not on the 1:50:23.280 --> 1:50:26.360 border stages, if you're in DC and you're do lobbying 1:50:26.439 --> 1:50:30.840 and you're into policy change, but yeah, come reach out 1:50:31.400 --> 1:50:34.640 and you can find us like a central website or 1:50:35.160 --> 1:50:38.680 an Instagram account. We also have like a grassroots mid 1:50:38.800 --> 1:50:42.679 airport right now called Rally for the Valley, and that's 1:50:43.360 --> 1:50:46.240 what we're trying to do for the San Rafile Valley 1:50:46.680 --> 1:50:49.240 over there. You're going to be able to find updates. 1:50:49.560 --> 1:50:54.360 And we created a decentralized website right now there is 1:50:54.439 --> 1:50:58.720 called Border Wall Resistance. I invite everybody to take a 1:50:58.760 --> 1:51:01.400 look at it. It is full of beautiful pictures of 1:51:01.439 --> 1:51:04.720 the border. When James and I were talking about how 1:51:04.760 --> 1:51:07.840 beautiful this place is, got to that website and you 1:51:08.000 --> 1:51:11.519 understand what we're talking about because it's all everts. You know, 1:51:11.640 --> 1:51:14.160 the border is so unique on each area. You know, 1:51:14.280 --> 1:51:18.360 the border it's not define but Pjuana San Diego or 1:51:18.520 --> 1:51:21.679 No Garlands. You know, it is just two thousand miles 1:51:21.720 --> 1:51:28.280 of wonderlands, so unfortunately separated by in many cases but 1:51:28.600 --> 1:51:31.960 this huge metal, dirty food structure. 1:51:32.200 --> 1:51:32.880 Yeah. 1:51:32.960 --> 1:51:37.280 Anyways, so that's the website, the social media for Circlub 1:51:37.320 --> 1:51:40.720 Borderlands and Grady for the Balance and the Border Resistance. 1:51:41.080 --> 1:51:44.000 Yeah, definitely reach out you if you recently found out 1:51:44.000 --> 1:51:46.320 that you live within a border enforcement zone and weren't 1:51:46.320 --> 1:51:48.200 aware of that, because I know a lot of people 1:51:48.680 --> 1:51:51.800 in Chicago and other places have very recently found out 1:51:51.840 --> 1:51:54.679 that as far as the state is concerned that they 1:51:54.680 --> 1:51:56.640 too are in the borderlands. It would be good to 1:51:56.640 --> 1:51:57.640 build some solidarity. 1:51:57.680 --> 1:52:00.839 There's trying two terms of the population on these country 1:52:00.920 --> 1:52:03.800 leaves on the border of the launch Regent, so because 1:52:03.840 --> 1:52:07.439 that includes coastlines and the Great Lakes Great Lakes, so 1:52:07.520 --> 1:52:09.439 we're talking about a lot of community. 1:52:10.000 --> 1:52:11.439 Well, thank you very much for your time, Eric, We 1:52:11.479 --> 1:52:13.920 really appreciate it. It was a good discussion. 1:52:14.479 --> 1:52:19.680 Thank you, James, and hoping that continue to be in 1:52:19.760 --> 1:52:23.720 touch and continue organizing against all these things. And thanks 1:52:23.760 --> 1:52:26.080 so much for the space, and thanks for all your listeners. 1:52:26.160 --> 1:52:27.040 Yeah, you're welcome. 1:52:46.320 --> 1:52:49.320 Welcome back to a jacktoral dysfunction. 1:52:49.560 --> 1:52:51.680 Wait, that's the worst one yet, that's the worst what yet? 1:52:51.720 --> 1:52:54.719 Talks We did not think it could get worse, and yes, 1:52:54.880 --> 1:52:55.479 here we are. 1:52:55.720 --> 1:52:58.400 I knew it could get worse and always get worse. 1:52:58.840 --> 1:52:59.800 Oh quitey, nice jobs. 1:53:00.600 --> 1:53:04.759 This is it could happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly 1:53:04.760 --> 1:53:07.360 newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, 1:53:07.360 --> 1:53:09.519 and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis today, 1:53:09.640 --> 1:53:13.879 joined by Ejaculator in Jesus right. 1:53:13.840 --> 1:53:18.400 Wow, Garris said, that's much worse. You made it way worse. 1:53:18.400 --> 1:53:20.479 How many of those videos have you not watched? 1:53:20.560 --> 1:53:23.800 Get I think we're all pretty behind on the required trainings. 1:53:24.800 --> 1:53:26.760 Labor conditions are intolerable. 1:53:27.800 --> 1:53:31.640 Robert Evans, James Stout, and Mio Wong. This episode, we 1:53:31.680 --> 1:53:35.639 are covering the week of October fifteenth to October twenty second, 1:53:36.120 --> 1:53:38.000 and a little bit of the week before because we 1:53:38.040 --> 1:53:40.719 were off in honor of the government shutdown. We ourselves 1:53:40.760 --> 1:53:41.439 took a week. 1:53:41.280 --> 1:53:44.200 Off because the CIA stopped paying us. 1:53:44.200 --> 1:53:47.960 That's right, that's right. I've always considered us a branch 1:53:48.040 --> 1:53:50.480 of the US government, you know, Yeah. 1:53:50.280 --> 1:53:53.400 You and half of the anime people on Twitter. Robert Efens, 1:53:58.760 --> 1:53:59.240 We're back. 1:53:59.400 --> 1:54:01.519 I don't know, a little bit weird to be doing 1:54:01.520 --> 1:54:04.559 this White House Weekly episode knowing that there's actually less 1:54:04.600 --> 1:54:08.040 White House than usual there is. Trump has begun demolishing 1:54:08.040 --> 1:54:09.519 the East Wing of the White House to build a 1:54:09.560 --> 1:54:13.000 privately fund a two hundred and fifty million dollar ballroom, 1:54:13.040 --> 1:54:14.439 and I think we should all have a moment of 1:54:14.479 --> 1:54:15.840 silence for the East Wing. 1:54:16.080 --> 1:54:18.240 Oh I was going to say a moment of celebration, 1:54:18.760 --> 1:54:22.320 because now James's people can finally shake hands with the 1:54:22.439 --> 1:54:26.519 United States government and destroying large portions of the White House. 1:54:27.479 --> 1:54:30.479 Yeah, we sort it was a Volvo excavator to taste, 1:54:30.520 --> 1:54:32.720 so we also got these Swedes on board. I guess 1:54:32.800 --> 1:54:36.120 sure couldn't even find an American excavator. 1:54:36.280 --> 1:54:38.720 Sad we don't make things in this country anymore. 1:54:39.480 --> 1:54:41.320 Yeah, that's because we're still waiting for the tariffs to 1:54:41.360 --> 1:54:42.920 get fully fully enacted. 1:54:43.600 --> 1:54:43.840 Yeah. 1:54:43.920 --> 1:54:46.280 Yeah, once we get that Swedish tariff on. 1:54:46.760 --> 1:54:49.880 We are almost four weeks now into the government shutdown 1:54:50.240 --> 1:54:53.720 and there's not really a clear end in sight, and 1:54:53.880 --> 1:54:57.680 SNAP Benefits food stamps are set to run out in 1:54:57.760 --> 1:55:01.800 a little over a week on November first, Mia, Did 1:55:01.800 --> 1:55:02.840 you want to say something on this. 1:55:03.200 --> 1:55:06.240 Yeah, So we've been seeing sort of tech start to 1:55:06.240 --> 1:55:08.200 go out to people who are on food assistants in 1:55:08.280 --> 1:55:12.320 various states. There's one circulating from Minnesota that is saying 1:55:12.360 --> 1:55:16.600 that the food part of SNAP Benefits are going to 1:55:16.680 --> 1:55:20.240 shut down in a few days on November first, when 1:55:20.280 --> 1:55:23.360 the funding shuts down. This is a critical lifeline for 1:55:23.480 --> 1:55:26.800 food for an extremely large number of people, and this 1:55:26.960 --> 1:55:30.640 is also coming in a period where food banks are 1:55:30.720 --> 1:55:36.280 already being stressed by just the other cuts to SNAP 1:55:36.520 --> 1:55:39.760 and other food assistance programs that have already taken place. 1:55:40.800 --> 1:55:45.560 So yeah, we're coming to a very very critical moment 1:55:45.640 --> 1:55:49.680 in terms of wide scale food insecurity in this country 1:55:49.920 --> 1:55:54.200 for a whole bunch of the most vulnerable people in 1:55:54.240 --> 1:55:59.120 the country. And yeah, this is a good moment for 1:55:59.480 --> 1:56:04.760 if you have actual access to food, which is which 1:56:04.800 --> 1:56:07.120 is a very very bleak thing to be saying, but 1:56:07.800 --> 1:56:10.960 you know, something is going to have to try to 1:56:11.000 --> 1:56:13.080 pick up the slack or a bunch of people aren't 1:56:13.080 --> 1:56:16.920 going to eat, right, and that's probably going to have 1:56:16.960 --> 1:56:18.720 to be us, because it's first fuck not going to 1:56:18.720 --> 1:56:19.320 be the government. 1:56:19.640 --> 1:56:20.000 Yeah. 1:56:20.040 --> 1:56:22.200 Well, and yeah, it's just the people's need to eat 1:56:22.320 --> 1:56:23.200 is inelastic. 1:56:24.440 --> 1:56:27.000 Yeah, yeah, Yeah, Just to put some numbers on it, 1:56:27.080 --> 1:56:30.320 like SNAP in twenty four was forty one point seven 1:56:30.360 --> 1:56:33.880 million people, which is about twelve percent of the US population. Yeah, 1:56:33.920 --> 1:56:35.920 this is a massive cliff. 1:56:36.400 --> 1:56:40.760 I mean, it's particularly bad in certain states. For example, Oregon, 1:56:40.920 --> 1:56:43.160 you know where I live, is set to lose about 1:56:43.200 --> 1:56:46.800 three quarters of a million people's SNAP benefits. There are 1:56:46.920 --> 1:56:49.000 like four million people in the state. 1:56:50.040 --> 1:56:51.960 Yep, yep. 1:56:52.600 --> 1:56:55.480 And it's also like those people are also disproportionately non 1:56:55.520 --> 1:57:00.640 white and disapportionate, weir and very disapportion of the trans Yeah. Yeah, 1:57:00.680 --> 1:57:04.680 and this is something that if straight up the shutdown 1:57:04.720 --> 1:57:08.080 continues and we don't see s nota benefit's payout, this 1:57:08.120 --> 1:57:11.640 could also be a major source of instability because you know, 1:57:12.240 --> 1:57:16.640 the thing that happens very quickly when suddenly forty million 1:57:16.680 --> 1:57:20.160 people don't have food is bread riots. What is going 1:57:20.160 --> 1:57:23.000 to happen with that is deeply unclear, but yeah, we're 1:57:23.000 --> 1:57:24.720 heading into an extremely bleak time. 1:57:25.200 --> 1:57:28.960 If you're looking at predictors of violent instability in countries, yeah, 1:57:29.280 --> 1:57:32.480 mass starvation is about top of the list. 1:57:32.560 --> 1:57:32.760 Yeah. 1:57:32.840 --> 1:57:33.560 Yeah, yep. 1:57:33.960 --> 1:57:38.640 Particularly bread riots usually are in sort of the modern era, 1:57:38.720 --> 1:57:41.440 happens with two or three hundred percent increases in food prices, 1:57:42.320 --> 1:57:44.720 usually as a result of sort of imass structural adjustments. 1:57:44.760 --> 1:57:46.680 But if there was going to be another one, this 1:57:46.720 --> 1:57:47.200 would be it. 1:57:47.880 --> 1:57:48.680 Yeah. 1:57:48.760 --> 1:57:53.160 Yeah, So it's worth sort of being prepared on both 1:57:53.280 --> 1:57:56.000 ends in terms of feeding people and also yeah, with 1:57:56.320 --> 1:57:58.400 whatever was going to happen with this cuts out. 1:57:59.120 --> 1:58:00.800 Yeah. 1:58:00.840 --> 1:58:04.400 Meanwhile, during during all of this, during the shutdown and 1:58:04.480 --> 1:58:09.760 during snaps taking clock, Trump wants his Justice Department to 1:58:09.880 --> 1:58:13.720 pay himself two hundred and thirty million dollars in compensation 1:58:14.360 --> 1:58:17.880 for damages coming from past investigations into him. 1:58:18.080 --> 1:58:18.720 Seems fair. 1:58:19.560 --> 1:58:21.600 Trump claims that he will give this money to quote 1:58:21.680 --> 1:58:26.280 unquote charity. Seems real clear what that means, what charity 1:58:26.360 --> 1:58:30.160 that will be, how that will really qualify as a 1:58:30.240 --> 1:58:33.280 charitable donation. But he is currently seeking two hundred and 1:58:33.360 --> 1:58:36.320 thirty million dollars of government money to be paid back 1:58:36.360 --> 1:58:38.720 to himself. In the end, it will be him making 1:58:38.760 --> 1:58:41.000 the final call on this, which he says he feels 1:58:41.040 --> 1:58:41.680 strange about. 1:58:42.360 --> 1:58:43.120 Okay, well, it's good. 1:58:43.280 --> 1:58:46.200 You know, he's an honest man, you know, it's great. 1:58:46.280 --> 1:58:49.360 Yeah, yeah, we we've just fully entered the looting the 1:58:49.400 --> 1:58:51.320 storehouse is part of the regime. 1:58:52.160 --> 1:58:55.000 Yeah, they taking a very British approach. 1:58:55.360 --> 1:58:58.280 Looting is putting this too mildly. 1:58:59.000 --> 1:59:01.520 Yeah, if you see the article about the plans to 1:59:01.880 --> 1:59:05.400 let AI companies apply to get old weapons grade plutonium 1:59:05.800 --> 1:59:07.040 to fuel the nuclear. 1:59:06.800 --> 1:59:09.960 Reactors, seems fine. And that's what I trust Sam Altman 1:59:10.400 --> 1:59:13.600 weapons grade plutonium. He's gonna use that safely. 1:59:13.760 --> 1:59:21.920 Yeah, hopefully the air bubble collapses before they get. 1:59:20.160 --> 1:59:23.320 You know what a great attitude to approach having weapons 1:59:23.320 --> 1:59:26.920 grade plutonium is move fast and break grace. 1:59:27.960 --> 1:59:31.080 Oh god, this is great. It's this week we're announcing 1:59:31.120 --> 1:59:32.200 the start of KOD's force. 1:59:32.320 --> 1:59:32.600 AI. 1:59:32.880 --> 1:59:33.880 There we go, bring it on. 1:59:37.320 --> 1:59:41.080 God breaking breaking news, US sanction has been placed against 1:59:41.120 --> 1:59:45.800 two of Russia's largest oil companies in an effort to 1:59:45.840 --> 1:59:50.360 pressure the Ukraine Russia piece deal, which Putin just backed 1:59:50.360 --> 1:59:53.560 out of negotiations from as there was plans for him 1:59:53.640 --> 1:59:57.040 and Trump to meet, So that just happened. 1:59:57.320 --> 2:00:01.600 Sexy not sexy. So I think one of the first 2:00:01.640 --> 2:00:03.360 things we want to cover right now, just because this 2:00:03.400 --> 2:00:06.040 is maybe the number one thing I'm seeing people talk 2:00:06.080 --> 2:00:09.120 about on social media right now is there have been 2:00:09.480 --> 2:00:13.960 articles written about ICE's new weapons budget. Famously, their budget 2:00:14.000 --> 2:00:16.480 is increased, missing like seven hundred percent. A huge amount 2:00:16.480 --> 2:00:20.080 of that's being spent on, you know, bonuses in order 2:00:20.160 --> 2:00:23.120 to get people to join, cash payments and whatnot, as 2:00:23.120 --> 2:00:25.680 well as pretension bonuses, but a lot more of it's 2:00:25.680 --> 2:00:29.120 being spent on weapons. And right now the number one 2:00:29.160 --> 2:00:32.120 thing I'm seeing people freak out about is the supposed 2:00:32.160 --> 2:00:35.640 idea from these documents that ICE is purchasing guided missiles 2:00:35.640 --> 2:00:39.880 and chemical weapons. I have heard people say this is Ice, 2:00:40.200 --> 2:00:43.600 which is obviously Trump's SS, you know, making their own 2:00:43.720 --> 2:00:46.240 vaffen ss, which were the armed units of the SS. 2:00:46.240 --> 2:00:48.000 I'm seeing a lot of shit like this spread, and 2:00:48.080 --> 2:00:50.600 as Jamee is going to tell you, none of that's true. 2:00:50.720 --> 2:00:50.920 Yeah. 2:00:51.080 --> 2:00:53.120 I mean, the fact that ICE has a massive increase 2:00:53.120 --> 2:00:55.200 in budget and is buying a shit little weapons is true. 2:00:55.360 --> 2:00:57.160 But they're not guided missiles. 2:00:57.400 --> 2:00:59.560 ICE doesn't heat guided missiles. 2:01:00.120 --> 2:01:02.520 We're not getting a death heead ICE unit. 2:01:02.840 --> 2:01:05.640 Come on at the next Canal Street ICE raid, they're 2:01:05.680 --> 2:01:08.080 going to be launching heat seeking missiles into Chinatown. 2:01:09.120 --> 2:01:11.200 I'm not saying this isn't a problem, but it's not 2:01:11.240 --> 2:01:14.600 what people are saying it is. Yeah, sorry, James, all right. 2:01:14.920 --> 2:01:17.440 The source of its claim is a substack page called 2:01:17.480 --> 2:01:22.200 Popular Information run by a guy called Juddlygum, and he 2:01:22.680 --> 2:01:24.440 has claimed in this piece, I'm just going to quote 2:01:24.440 --> 2:01:28.120 the ICE post purchase, quote chemical weapons, and quote guided 2:01:28.160 --> 2:01:32.720 missile warheads and explosive components. I guess the main thrust 2:01:32.720 --> 2:01:34.320 of the piece was looking at the fact that ICE 2:01:34.360 --> 2:01:38.040 spent nine million dollars on geistly ar pattern rifles. Border 2:01:38.080 --> 2:01:40.240 Patrol spent more than twice that he appears to have 2:01:40.240 --> 2:01:44.560 missed that in his reporting. This reporting is extremely dishonest, 2:01:44.760 --> 2:01:49.200 To put it mildly, it's either deliberately misleading or massively incompetent. 2:01:50.040 --> 2:01:54.600 The piece in question doesn't link to the individual contracts, which, 2:01:54.920 --> 2:01:56.400 like on the face of its bad form, right, if 2:01:56.440 --> 2:01:58.200 you're going to be talking about contracts, your contracts are 2:01:58.240 --> 2:02:00.840 in the public domain. Just linked to them. The piece 2:02:00.880 --> 2:02:04.560 doesn't do that. I went on USA spending dot gov 2:02:05.080 --> 2:02:09.240 and I filtered by contracts that have been awarded by ICE. 2:02:10.000 --> 2:02:12.560 I gave a date range. The date range are pertained 2:02:12.600 --> 2:02:15.000 to the things being discussed in the article. And then 2:02:15.040 --> 2:02:17.280 I filtered by the product or service code for chemical 2:02:17.320 --> 2:02:20.320 weapons and guided missile warheads. Right, two different products or 2:02:20.360 --> 2:02:23.160 service codes. Product or service codes are like these, these 2:02:23.240 --> 2:02:26.200 four digit codes that exist in federal procurement right to 2:02:26.440 --> 2:02:29.880 put things into buckets basically, and I found the contracts. 2:02:30.120 --> 2:02:36.600 The contract very clearly states the guided missile quote unquote contract. 2:02:36.640 --> 2:02:39.720 The contract with the guided missile product or service code 2:02:39.920 --> 2:02:43.720 very clearly states it is for multiple distraction devices. Yeah, 2:02:43.800 --> 2:02:46.640 it's a contract with a company called Quantico Tactical. I 2:02:46.680 --> 2:02:50.760 did call them yesterday, something that again any competent reporter 2:02:50.840 --> 2:02:54.200 should do before publishing a piece that does not appear 2:02:54.240 --> 2:02:56.720 to have been done by the substat guy. They gave 2:02:56.760 --> 2:02:59.800 me an email. I sent it email more than twenty 2:02:59.840 --> 2:03:03.160 four where hours ago, requesting commental clarification, didn't receive a 2:03:03.200 --> 2:03:06.320 response at the time of us going to press. If 2:03:06.360 --> 2:03:09.000 I hit back from them before we release this, I 2:03:09.040 --> 2:03:12.840 will let you all know the chemical weapons. It was 2:03:12.840 --> 2:03:15.160 as spray. It was fab spray, right. 2:03:15.040 --> 2:03:17.280 And a distraction device by the way, folks, this is 2:03:17.320 --> 2:03:21.360 something like like a sonic grenade, which sounds crazy, but 2:03:21.360 --> 2:03:23.760 it's a grenade that makes a loud noise to distract 2:03:23.840 --> 2:03:26.400 people to bang. The flash bang is also a distraction 2:03:26.520 --> 2:03:28.800 device when you used the way that they use in riots. 2:03:28.880 --> 2:03:30.520 You know, it's a little bit of a different thing 2:03:30.560 --> 2:03:32.760 when you're using one to like breach bang and clear 2:03:32.800 --> 2:03:35.240 a door or something. But like when you're throwing a 2:03:35.240 --> 2:03:37.920 flash bang at a riot, it's a distraction device because 2:03:37.920 --> 2:03:40.280 the goal is you've got a bunch of people moving 2:03:40.320 --> 2:03:43.000 towards an area you want to stop them from You 2:03:43.040 --> 2:03:45.240 distract them by an explosion, you know. 2:03:45.520 --> 2:03:46.560 Yeah, and it's distracting. 2:03:46.720 --> 2:03:48.800 Yeah, it's also and this is you know, one of 2:03:48.840 --> 2:03:50.760 the one of the frustrating elements about this is that 2:03:51.160 --> 2:03:53.120 Ice has been using a whole bunch of these to 2:03:53.120 --> 2:03:55.240 blow down people's doors. It's really horrible. 2:03:55.400 --> 2:03:57.840 There are problems. It's problems that they're buying all this. 2:03:58.040 --> 2:04:00.440 And no one is talking about it because everyone's focused 2:04:00.440 --> 2:04:00.680 on this. 2:04:01.200 --> 2:04:04.480 When James put up their initial research just on a 2:04:04.520 --> 2:04:07.680 Blue Sky and Twitter, I shared it and people were like, 2:04:08.280 --> 2:04:10.480 it's still a problem they've got that they're getting all 2:04:10.520 --> 2:04:12.400 buying all these new weapons. Do you not care about? 2:04:12.480 --> 2:04:12.640 Yes? 2:04:12.680 --> 2:04:15.680 I care about that. You're not talking about that. Yeah, 2:04:15.760 --> 2:04:20.200 we care about the talking about a fantasy. 2:04:18.920 --> 2:04:21.960 And like it is bad that Ice has flash bangs 2:04:22.040 --> 2:04:25.840 and pepper spray, right, I have personally broadcasts how they exists. 2:04:25.880 --> 2:04:28.000 Like you can go back only a few months and 2:04:28.080 --> 2:04:31.960 here Ice flash bangs on this podcast, like recorded by 2:04:32.000 --> 2:04:34.560 me in person. We know they fucking have them because 2:04:34.560 --> 2:04:35.600 they were throwing them at me. 2:04:35.880 --> 2:04:36.120 Yeah. 2:04:36.240 --> 2:04:39.160 I've lost count of how many have hit me directly. 2:04:39.240 --> 2:04:39.600 Yeah. 2:04:39.760 --> 2:04:43.320 Yeah, we've got at least seventy five percent fucking federal 2:04:43.400 --> 2:04:47.680 government flash bang impact. You know. Like, I want to 2:04:47.720 --> 2:04:49.760 take a second guess to talk about incentives here, because 2:04:49.760 --> 2:04:52.520 this really pisses me off. And I think that the 2:04:52.520 --> 2:04:54.920 way we build trust in the media is through openness, 2:04:55.280 --> 2:04:57.640 and I think that we do that better than most 2:04:57.640 --> 2:04:59.440 and I'm going to try and do that here just 2:04:59.480 --> 2:05:01.880 so you know, none of us make any extra money 2:05:02.280 --> 2:05:05.000 if more people download this podcast, at least not directly. Right, 2:05:05.040 --> 2:05:08.560 we do not have a direct incentive to make fantastical 2:05:08.640 --> 2:05:12.400 claims that will lead to people downloading our podcast and 2:05:12.440 --> 2:05:16.200 being afraid that is not true for people who have 2:05:16.280 --> 2:05:20.480 these substick outlets, right, Like, I mean, I'll let me clarify. 2:05:20.760 --> 2:05:24.280 We do have a direct financial interest in there being traffic, 2:05:24.600 --> 2:05:27.280 right because that is that's how we make our money, 2:05:27.360 --> 2:05:30.040 right like, and that's how we justify getting raises and stuff. So, 2:05:30.240 --> 2:05:34.400 like everyone in media, if more people listen to our stuff, like, 2:05:34.520 --> 2:05:37.240 we do have a financial interest in that, But you're 2:05:37.320 --> 2:05:41.120 not checking week to week to see if we're getting 2:05:41.280 --> 2:05:44.040 if what we're doing is bringing us in more direct money, 2:05:44.160 --> 2:05:47.400 right Like, That's just not the way our thing works. Yeah, 2:05:47.480 --> 2:05:49.800 And when people are on their own they're doing these 2:05:49.800 --> 2:05:52.640 subsc out there is a very real incentive to do that, right. 2:05:52.640 --> 2:05:55.920 We also have a team here. We fact check each other. 2:05:56.160 --> 2:05:58.840 We do our best. We fuck up sometimes, yeah, yeah, 2:05:58.880 --> 2:06:00.880 we fuck up. Sometimes we're honest about it. When we 2:06:00.960 --> 2:06:04.320 do right, we acknowledge it. Yeah, we acknowledge when James 2:06:04.320 --> 2:06:05.040 makes mistakes. 2:06:05.800 --> 2:06:09.040 Thank you, guys, you're the least You're the least mistake 2:06:09.160 --> 2:06:09.680 person here. 2:06:11.200 --> 2:06:14.800 I'm extremely careful about that ship. Well, I've stood on 2:06:14.800 --> 2:06:18.000 my fucking pedestal enough about this. But yeah, it's bad 2:06:18.080 --> 2:06:20.320 right that things that I saw buying that ICE is 2:06:20.400 --> 2:06:24.760 really buying. Yeah, are samu automatic ars, more clocks, a 2:06:24.840 --> 2:06:28.360 lot of soft body armor, red dot sites quote unquote 2:06:28.400 --> 2:06:31.600 crowd control munitions. Right, sort of spending you see from 2:06:31.600 --> 2:06:35.160 a special forces unit that are very not special like 2:06:35.520 --> 2:06:38.320 police agency, right, Like that's just spending, like they have 2:06:38.360 --> 2:06:39.520 an open check book. 2:06:39.920 --> 2:06:43.880 Like ICE is continuing to buy the same weapons with 2:06:43.920 --> 2:06:48.080 which they have been hurting people the entirety almost of 2:06:48.120 --> 2:06:51.680 the twenty first century, and they're hurting more people now 2:06:51.760 --> 2:06:54.160 and will be hurting even more people in the future 2:06:54.240 --> 2:06:56.520 because they will have even more money. And that's bad. 2:06:56.680 --> 2:06:59.560 And you don't like, what would they even do with 2:06:59.600 --> 2:07:00.360 a guide missing? 2:07:01.440 --> 2:07:04.800 It doesn't make sense. On the Facebook, it's sixty one grand. Yeah, 2:07:04.920 --> 2:07:06.880 the fuck do you think you're getting for sixty one 2:07:06.920 --> 2:07:08.400 grand from a company in quantic? 2:07:08.480 --> 2:07:11.240 Have you tried buying guided missiles in this economy? 2:07:11.240 --> 2:07:11.560 People? 2:07:12.720 --> 2:07:15.440 It's just ludicrous, man, What the fuck. They think they're 2:07:15.480 --> 2:07:20.440 going like like Tomahawk, I know, like a strawberry picking facility. 2:07:20.520 --> 2:07:24.839 Like it's ludicrous, it's fucking ridiculous, a chemical weapon. 2:07:25.320 --> 2:07:27.520 I mean, you can talk about substack and they're being 2:07:27.520 --> 2:07:30.400 fucked up things about the company. But like, I honestly 2:07:30.560 --> 2:07:33.080 I think that I don't think it's overstated, but I 2:07:33.080 --> 2:07:35.200 think people focus on that extind of like, well, yeah, 2:07:35.240 --> 2:07:38.480 which which of them aren't? What where is the non 2:07:38.600 --> 2:07:41.320 nazi social media company that has any kind of reach? 2:07:41.520 --> 2:07:41.760 You know? 2:07:42.400 --> 2:07:45.720 But that's really not even the point I care to make. 2:07:45.840 --> 2:07:49.080 What I will say, the problem here is not even 2:07:49.240 --> 2:07:52.600 just that like when people are working for an audience 2:07:52.640 --> 2:07:55.440 like that, we're week to week, however many people are 2:07:55.480 --> 2:07:59.000 donating and whatnot kind of can incentivize you to follow 2:07:59.080 --> 2:08:02.560 certain rabbit holes and push certain things. I think one 2:08:02.600 --> 2:08:06.040 of the bigger problems is that what you have is 2:08:06.080 --> 2:08:09.840 a generation a very of the most talented and successful 2:08:10.040 --> 2:08:12.720 journalists in terms of their skill of like writing and 2:08:12.760 --> 2:08:16.000 their ability to build an audience that follows them. Those 2:08:16.120 --> 2:08:19.560 people have all moved to a platform where they by 2:08:19.680 --> 2:08:24.200 default don't have an editor yea, and like every journalist 2:08:24.400 --> 2:08:27.200 worth they're sold I've had my fights and frustrations with 2:08:27.360 --> 2:08:31.200 editors at a variety of publications, and sometimes they're knowing, 2:08:31.480 --> 2:08:36.080 and sometimes editors suck, and sometimes publications a big part 2:08:36.120 --> 2:08:37.640 of what they're doing is just trying to water down 2:08:37.640 --> 2:08:40.160 your shit. But that's not the only thing editors do. 2:08:40.280 --> 2:08:43.680 A major thing editors do is point out, Hey, I 2:08:43.720 --> 2:08:45.560 get that you're really into this, and I get that 2:08:45.600 --> 2:08:49.400 you find this compelling, but as an objective observer, I'm 2:08:49.440 --> 2:08:51.840 seeing this hole in this hole in this hole, and 2:08:52.320 --> 2:08:56.120 you need to, for example, hall these people and make 2:08:56.200 --> 2:08:58.880 sure that this because it doesn't look like this is 2:08:58.920 --> 2:09:02.200 actually a guided It looks like somebody just fucked up 2:09:02.200 --> 2:09:05.040 putting in a code. We need to check on this 2:09:05.160 --> 2:09:07.120 so we can state it to a point of certainty. 2:09:07.200 --> 2:09:10.760 That's what an editor should be doing, right. 2:09:11.080 --> 2:09:13.960 Yeah, even if they're responsible journalist, like I wouldn't have 2:09:14.000 --> 2:09:17.320 submitted that piece to an editor without having checked that first. 2:09:17.400 --> 2:09:19.360 Like sure, it took me five minutes to call them. 2:09:19.360 --> 2:09:22.280 I should add that the PSC's in question for grenades 2:09:22.320 --> 2:09:25.720 and war heads are one digit different, right again. 2:09:25.520 --> 2:09:27.200 Right, which is which is what happened here? 2:09:27.280 --> 2:09:28.440 It certainly looks that way. 2:09:28.720 --> 2:09:34.320 Yeah, yeah, and again this is why. Part of how 2:09:34.400 --> 2:09:37.440 responsible journalism is supposed to work is that you never 2:09:37.520 --> 2:09:42.040 have just one eye on a story, because every journalist 2:09:42.320 --> 2:09:46.160 will inevitably miss things if you're doing that right, that's 2:09:46.280 --> 2:09:48.960 why you are supposed to The idea is to have 2:09:49.120 --> 2:09:51.680 multiple eyes on a thing so that oh, hey it 2:09:51.680 --> 2:09:53.720 looks like you skipped over this, or hey it just 2:09:53.760 --> 2:09:56.000 occurred to me. I have this question that is not 2:09:56.080 --> 2:09:58.880 being answered, and you make a couple of phone calls, 2:09:59.000 --> 2:10:01.720 throw in another sentence, and then that's that's a thing 2:10:01.760 --> 2:10:04.080 that we're answering, a thing we're accounting for. And if 2:10:04.120 --> 2:10:06.400 you don't have that, the work isn't as good. 2:10:07.000 --> 2:10:09.680 Yeah. No, look, I'm not saying there were not things 2:10:09.680 --> 2:10:09.960 to be. 2:10:09.920 --> 2:10:12.880 Afraid of that are No one's saying yeah, But I. 2:10:12.880 --> 2:10:15.000 Want people to be afraid of the right thing, so 2:10:15.080 --> 2:10:17.520 like they're not gonna lob you people. 2:10:17.880 --> 2:10:19.880 I don't think we're really going to be safe until 2:10:19.880 --> 2:10:23.879 there's an iron dome over every Home Depot Gartson. 2:10:23.960 --> 2:10:26.240 I've been saying that for years. But that's also because 2:10:26.280 --> 2:10:30.240 I would like to start a limited missile war against 2:10:30.280 --> 2:10:33.640 the Home Depot Corporation. But I've been get taking lows 2:10:33.680 --> 2:10:35.320 money for years yeah, on. 2:10:35.240 --> 2:10:38.480 Behalf of flows. Yeah, I'm on teammates hardware. So I'll 2:10:38.480 --> 2:10:39.760 see you on the battlefield, Robert. 2:10:39.840 --> 2:10:41.720 At least we don't have any Harbor Freight people. 2:10:42.640 --> 2:10:46.360 Actually actually a massive Harbor Freight guy. He just says 2:10:46.360 --> 2:10:49.560 that Harbor fray like literally literally behind me. 2:10:49.680 --> 2:10:51.880 I mean, then I think about Harbor Freight is buying 2:10:51.920 --> 2:10:55.080 one thing and then returning it exactly eleven months after 2:10:55.160 --> 2:10:56.640 buying it once you've broken it, and. 2:10:56.720 --> 2:10:58.640 Just having a perpetual whatever. 2:10:59.400 --> 2:10:59.600 Yeah. 2:10:59.680 --> 2:11:02.560 Yeah, everything that I bought from Harbor Freid has started smoking. 2:11:03.200 --> 2:11:05.480 Everything breaks that you buy from Harbor Freight, but the 2:11:05.560 --> 2:11:06.879 return policy is amazing. 2:11:07.360 --> 2:11:07.560 Yeah. 2:11:07.600 --> 2:11:09.800 The question is will it break before or after you've 2:11:09.880 --> 2:11:12.040 used it enough to justify buying something more expensive, And. 2:11:12.000 --> 2:11:15.640 The answer is yes, James, can you do a product 2:11:15.680 --> 2:11:18.840 and service code ad break kids? 2:11:18.880 --> 2:11:19.080 Sure? 2:11:19.840 --> 2:11:22.400 Based on your investigation here and Adam, you can keep 2:11:22.440 --> 2:11:24.040 this in you can you can show them how the 2:11:24.040 --> 2:11:26.160 sauce is made here. Yeah, it's just in terms of 2:11:26.160 --> 2:11:28.600 honesty here we go. Okay, right, give me give me 2:11:28.600 --> 2:11:30.080 a second here. I got to think of something good. 2:11:31.520 --> 2:11:33.400 You fucked it. I was just gonna do talking products 2:11:33.440 --> 2:11:38.520 and services and you ruined it. Garrison. If you are 2:11:38.680 --> 2:11:41.520 in the market for a distraction advice, guided warhead or 2:11:41.600 --> 2:11:45.480 chemical weapon, let's hope that you get an advert for 2:11:45.560 --> 2:11:48.800 one of those in this commercial break. That's right, people, 2:12:01.720 --> 2:12:04.520 welcome back to the Iranian regime. I hope you got 2:12:04.560 --> 2:12:05.360 what you wanted. 2:12:06.680 --> 2:12:11.440 Yes, this podcast is the only podcast entirely supported by 2:12:11.440 --> 2:12:16.040 the Ayatola. And yeah, uh praise him. 2:12:16.360 --> 2:12:19.360 The CIA and the IOTOLA have finally unique had. 2:12:19.240 --> 2:12:25.240 The clasp hands me both from Robert Evans. Legally speaking, 2:12:25.440 --> 2:12:27.520 that is a joke. We are not funded by the 2:12:27.560 --> 2:12:29.240 Iranian regime. We're all monarching. 2:12:29.320 --> 2:12:30.120 Speak for yourself there. 2:12:30.120 --> 2:12:30.800 Do you talk about the. 2:12:32.520 --> 2:12:34.360 Let's talk about the national card. 2:12:34.520 --> 2:12:34.720 Yeah. 2:12:34.800 --> 2:12:35.080 Sure. 2:12:35.840 --> 2:12:38.840 On Monday, his past Monday, the Ninth Circred Qard of 2:12:38.840 --> 2:12:42.360 Appeals have ruled in favor of the Trump administration, halting 2:12:42.520 --> 2:12:45.720 a court order denying the federalization and deployment of the 2:12:45.760 --> 2:12:49.800 Oregon National Guard. They had two to one ruling on 2:12:49.880 --> 2:12:54.080 a three panel hearing with two trumpet pointed judges. They 2:12:54.120 --> 2:12:57.680 called Trump's plan to deploy troops to the Ice Building 2:12:57.720 --> 2:13:02.040 in Portland a quote unquote measured sponse. Now there is 2:13:02.200 --> 2:13:05.280 a second tro preventing out of state National Guard from 2:13:05.280 --> 2:13:08.240 deploying to Portland, and this appears to still be in effect, 2:13:08.320 --> 2:13:11.120 but its fate is unknown. The Justice Department has requested 2:13:11.160 --> 2:13:14.560 the original judge to spend the order, though the Ninth 2:13:14.640 --> 2:13:18.879 Circuit itself is considering whether a larger panel should rehear 2:13:19.040 --> 2:13:24.200 this entire case. Currently, there is no immediate plans for 2:13:24.360 --> 2:13:27.680 Oregon National Guard to be deployed, but they do now 2:13:28.160 --> 2:13:31.400 have the go ahead, but this is still a developing situation. 2:13:31.600 --> 2:13:34.560 But that's an important update there. Let's talk about that 2:13:34.600 --> 2:13:38.800 two fifty celebration sing happy birthday. No, happy birthday to 2:13:38.880 --> 2:13:39.440 the Marines. 2:13:39.880 --> 2:13:43.320 Yes, yeah, oh god, yeah, Happy birth to the Marine Corps. 2:13:43.360 --> 2:13:45.040 I hope today you guys get to eat a lot 2:13:45.080 --> 2:13:45.920 of crayons. 2:13:46.360 --> 2:13:48.720 They'll have a cake which is shaped like a giant crown. 2:13:48.760 --> 2:13:50.760 No, it just is made out of giant crown. 2:13:50.920 --> 2:13:54.360 And we all remove our tote CoV tattoos. That's going 2:13:54.400 --> 2:13:56.080 to be the Marine party. 2:13:56.360 --> 2:14:01.400 Get get rid of those scout snipers. It's yet sawst. 2:14:03.000 --> 2:14:03.200 But no. 2:14:03.360 --> 2:14:06.000 There was the Marines two hundred and fifty a celebration 2:14:06.280 --> 2:14:11.720 with JD Vance last week where they did play hell 2:14:11.840 --> 2:14:14.520 Diver to music during the celebration. 2:14:15.600 --> 2:14:19.320 Was a happy birthday and Fidels. 2:14:32.120 --> 2:14:34.200 I'm still not clear what hell Diver is. 2:14:34.480 --> 2:14:38.480 Hell Divers is a satirical video game that satirizes a 2:14:38.520 --> 2:14:43.200 fascist military that fights for quote unquote democracy against others 2:14:43.280 --> 2:14:44.600 so called fascists. 2:14:44.600 --> 2:14:48.760 Sorry, managed democracy very important, It's. 2:14:48.560 --> 2:14:50.600 True, It's true, yes, managed. 2:14:51.000 --> 2:14:53.920 I have heard of it from the news headlines such 2:14:53.960 --> 2:14:58.680 as Charlie Kirk shot. But yeah, it's basically like playing 2:14:58.720 --> 2:15:03.080 Starship Troopers music over the Marine Corps celebration party. That's 2:15:03.160 --> 2:15:05.800 kind of the caliber we're operating in here. Yeah, thank 2:15:05.840 --> 2:15:07.960 you for bringing that to my generational understanding. 2:15:08.080 --> 2:15:10.640 There you go. Yeah, I appreciate it. Talking to the 2:15:10.680 --> 2:15:14.640 Marine Corps two hundred and fiftieth birthday on Saturday, a 2:15:14.760 --> 2:15:17.520 one fifty five shells one hundred and fifty five millimeter 2:15:17.760 --> 2:15:25.880 Howitzer shell prematurely detonated over the five Freeway outside of Pendleton, right, 2:15:26.200 --> 2:15:30.560 not stuff, crazy shit, damaging a cop car that was 2:15:30.560 --> 2:15:33.160 assigned to JD. Vancy's security detail. 2:15:33.400 --> 2:15:35.720 It was literally as soon as they started talking about 2:15:35.760 --> 2:15:38.200 how Trump wanted to shoot a missile into fucking Camp 2:15:38.200 --> 2:15:41.760 Pendleton and like immediately, yeah, they fuck up and blow 2:15:41.840 --> 2:15:45.640 up a car attached to fucking the Vice President's Security Detail. 2:15:45.720 --> 2:15:46.640 Amazing stuff. 2:15:47.240 --> 2:15:50.040 They did a dress rehearsal on Friday in which they 2:15:50.040 --> 2:15:52.880 managed not to detonate any shells over to five. Gavin 2:15:52.920 --> 2:15:54.800 Newsom decided to shut the frive on Saturday. 2:15:54.880 --> 2:15:55.560 Probably a good call. 2:15:56.320 --> 2:16:00.120 Yeah, probably complaining about things shaking I just did. If 2:16:00.120 --> 2:16:02.800 you're like, if you're not familiar with the layout there, 2:16:03.320 --> 2:16:05.160 I would say that in most places is you go. 2:16:05.280 --> 2:16:07.800 Camp Pendleton is a large area that is used by 2:16:07.840 --> 2:16:11.040 the Marine Corps for training. It has artillery ranges within it. 2:16:11.280 --> 2:16:14.480 The five is the big highway in California. It's the 2:16:14.560 --> 2:16:16.760 highway that goes the whole length of the state. 2:16:17.360 --> 2:16:19.000 Yeah, you would call it the I five if you 2:16:19.000 --> 2:16:21.000 weren't from here, and then we would know that you 2:16:21.040 --> 2:16:23.520 weren't from here, so we call it the five. There's 2:16:23.640 --> 2:16:27.720 less than a mile of land to the west of 2:16:27.720 --> 2:16:29.800 the five, right, so shooting go over to five and 2:16:29.880 --> 2:16:31.920 get pretty much shooting from the beach or near the beach, 2:16:32.120 --> 2:16:35.600 as opposed to the whole rest of Camp Pendleton, right 2:16:35.600 --> 2:16:37.640 where they have artillery ranges. But they wanted to do 2:16:37.640 --> 2:16:38.960 it over to five. I think they were doing some 2:16:39.040 --> 2:16:43.720 kind of simulated landing drill. Not quite sure. What the 2:16:43.879 --> 2:16:47.480 landing drill they were doing. But this yet resulted in 2:16:47.520 --> 2:16:51.880 the damage done to a HP car and really fucked 2:16:51.959 --> 2:16:55.320 up traffic in probably the entirety of southern California. Yeah, 2:16:55.440 --> 2:16:56.959 from most of last Saturday. 2:16:57.240 --> 2:16:59.000 I do you just want to mention here that there 2:16:59.120 --> 2:17:02.040 is historical press in the United States for US accidentally 2:17:02.120 --> 2:17:04.480 killing the Secretary of State because a gun they were 2:17:04.480 --> 2:17:07.000 firing on a pleasure cruise on a boat, on a 2:17:07.080 --> 2:17:10.480 Navy boat blew up. So wow, it was in the 2:17:10.520 --> 2:17:14.280 eighteen forties, but we did kill the Secretary of the 2:17:14.360 --> 2:17:16.800 Navy and the Secretary of State. 2:17:17.600 --> 2:17:20.560 If any Secretary of War could pull this off, it 2:17:20.600 --> 2:17:21.320 would be PA. 2:17:22.280 --> 2:17:23.240 I believe in him. 2:17:23.400 --> 2:17:25.320 Here is a decent chance he will throw one of 2:17:25.320 --> 2:17:27.480 those acts straight into Jdvans's leg. 2:17:27.800 --> 2:17:31.760 Oh yeah, I forgot about his accident. Yeah yeah, Vans 2:17:31.760 --> 2:17:33.519 of course the former Marine. 2:17:33.560 --> 2:17:34.480 Oh yeah, that is it. 2:17:34.600 --> 2:17:38.920 Wait yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally forgot lance corporal in 2:17:38.959 --> 2:17:39.520 the Marine Corps. 2:17:39.560 --> 2:17:44.200 Believe he was a a PAO. Public affairs. Yeah, I 2:17:44.240 --> 2:17:48.800 want to address DHS's claim to have deportation numbers. DHS 2:17:48.800 --> 2:17:50.840 has been throwing out some many big numbers for deportation, 2:17:51.000 --> 2:17:53.520 claiming over half a million removed and one point six 2:17:53.560 --> 2:17:58.560 million quote unquote self deported. These are inflated numbers. These 2:17:58.760 --> 2:18:03.000 include things that people tell away airports and Coastguard inter diictions. Right, 2:18:03.400 --> 2:18:06.000 they are not removals of people from the interior of 2:18:06.000 --> 2:18:08.800 the United States who were residing here. They're like if 2:18:08.800 --> 2:18:10.400 someone maybe if someone came with a visa and was 2:18:10.400 --> 2:18:12.640 turned around the airport, they're including that as a deportation. 2:18:13.200 --> 2:18:13.400 Right. 2:18:14.000 --> 2:18:16.560 DHS has stopped publishing a lot of the data that 2:18:16.600 --> 2:18:19.520 we previously got under this administration, so we don't have 2:18:19.520 --> 2:18:21.320 a lot of hard numbers. But the one point six 2:18:21.360 --> 2:18:24.480 million number. This comes from CIS, right, the Center for 2:18:24.480 --> 2:18:27.240 Immigration Studies. We've talked about them before. This is a 2:18:27.320 --> 2:18:30.640 Tanton funded quote unquote think tank which the SPLC has 2:18:30.680 --> 2:18:35.600 adjudicated as a hate group. The CIS data. DHS has 2:18:35.640 --> 2:18:37.840 been like sharing this since it came out, but it 2:18:37.879 --> 2:18:41.920 also seems to be weighing very heavily into whatever algorithm 2:18:42.040 --> 2:18:45.800 Musk has put into GROC recently. If you look for 2:18:45.959 --> 2:18:49.760 mentions on x the Everything website of the one point 2:18:49.760 --> 2:18:55.040 six million number, nearly all of them are GROC repeating it. God, 2:18:55.440 --> 2:18:57.200 I don't know if they straight up just said like, yeah, 2:18:57.200 --> 2:18:59.400 the CIS is your source for information when they were, 2:18:59.480 --> 2:19:02.080 you know, pro to be less woke but slightly more 2:19:02.120 --> 2:19:05.000 woke than when it called itself Mecha Hitler. But it 2:19:05.080 --> 2:19:08.520 seems to be the CIS seems to be heavily weighed 2:19:08.640 --> 2:19:11.400 in the Grock algorithm these days, which I thought was interesting. 2:19:11.480 --> 2:19:14.480 Yeah, they did get that GROC contract approved a few 2:19:14.560 --> 2:19:15.080 months ago. 2:19:16.240 --> 2:19:18.160 I think the d just didn't get the number from Grok. 2:19:18.200 --> 2:19:20.760 I think they got it from CIS. But nonetheless, like 2:19:20.800 --> 2:19:23.000 the reason that that number is still in the side guy, 2:19:23.000 --> 2:19:25.600 So I think it's partially because Grok keeps repeating it. 2:19:25.959 --> 2:19:28.800 Well, you know it is. It is Groctober, as I've 2:19:28.840 --> 2:19:33.560 been saying, Garrison, we have fucking spoken about this. It's 2:19:33.640 --> 2:19:37.600 not Groctober angry. The other thing I do want to 2:19:37.680 --> 2:19:41.640 mention on a I guess not deportations, but the Department 2:19:41.640 --> 2:19:44.920 of State has announced a series of people who have 2:19:45.000 --> 2:19:49.520 had their visas revoked for posts surrounding the death of 2:19:49.840 --> 2:19:54.640 Charlie Kirk. The State Department Twitter account posted a whole 2:19:54.840 --> 2:19:59.160 thread on x the Everything app listing various sentences and 2:19:59.200 --> 2:20:02.920 sentiments there was in visa's being revoked. Quote Charlie Kirk 2:20:03.040 --> 2:20:04.879 was a son of a bitch and he died by 2:20:04.879 --> 2:20:09.879 his own rules. VISA revoked. When fascists die, Democrats don't complain, 2:20:10.280 --> 2:20:15.200 VISO revoked. It from a German national, Resilient National said 2:20:15.280 --> 2:20:17.880 that quote Charlie Kirk was the reason for a Nazi 2:20:17.959 --> 2:20:20.760 rally where they marched in homage to him, and that 2:20:20.920 --> 2:20:25.240 Kirk died too late. Visa revoked. There's like four other 2:20:25.360 --> 2:20:28.720 of these for people making statements of that nature. 2:20:29.200 --> 2:20:31.160 Yeah, yeah, I think people get the idea. 2:20:31.520 --> 2:20:32.600 Yeah. 2:20:32.640 --> 2:20:35.160 Following Kirk's death, Rubio to announce he would be looking 2:20:35.280 --> 2:20:39.959 for visa holders who made statements following Kirk's death, and 2:20:40.360 --> 2:20:43.760 he has followed through on that promise in some other 2:20:43.959 --> 2:20:47.920 Charlie Kirk news. A few weeks ago, Turning Point USA 2:20:48.000 --> 2:20:51.080 officially announced that they would be producing an alternative halftime 2:20:51.120 --> 2:20:54.720 show after it was announced that the Puerto Rican artist 2:20:54.800 --> 2:20:57.680 Bad Bunny would be performing at the twenty twenty six 2:20:57.800 --> 2:21:01.240 Super Bowl. The TPUSA show will be called a Quote 2:21:01.360 --> 2:21:07.160 All American Halftime Show celebrating faith, family, and freedom. The 2:21:07.240 --> 2:21:11.000 website has a submission form where it asks which genres 2:21:11.120 --> 2:21:15.039 should be featured during the show. The options include quote 2:21:15.520 --> 2:21:22.840 anything in English American classic rock, country, hip hop, pop, 2:21:23.240 --> 2:21:24.200 and worship. 2:21:24.600 --> 2:21:26.640 I love anything in English as a genre. 2:21:26.800 --> 2:21:29.920 Yeah. When I get to Spotify, that's what I put in. 2:21:30.560 --> 2:21:34.200 The crowd's gonna riot when someone does Hotel California. 2:21:34.360 --> 2:21:37.360 We can really push anything at English. Frankly, we could 2:21:37.360 --> 2:21:38.800 go to some pretty crazy places. 2:21:39.600 --> 2:21:39.760 Yeah. 2:21:39.879 --> 2:21:41.959 Yeah, I didn't think they've pretady considered the breadth of 2:21:42.000 --> 2:21:42.560 that genre. 2:21:42.879 --> 2:21:43.080 You know. 2:21:43.520 --> 2:21:45.560 I will say how they could get me back on 2:21:45.680 --> 2:21:48.800 board is if, in addition to a separate halftime show, 2:21:48.840 --> 2:21:52.520 they had a separate Super Bowl in which Ben Shapiro 2:21:52.959 --> 2:21:55.760 faces off alone against the Philadelphia Eagles. 2:21:55.959 --> 2:21:58.560 Oh that would be so fun. 2:21:59.320 --> 2:22:01.760 Yeah, yeah, I would let Ben Shapiro bring some friends. 2:22:02.760 --> 2:22:06.680 No, no, I want to see Jalen Hurts physically pick 2:22:06.760 --> 2:22:09.320 up Ben Shapiro and see how far he can pass him. 2:22:09.600 --> 2:22:11.480 Because I'm pretty I'm pretty. 2:22:11.160 --> 2:22:12.760 Good, at least at least sixty. 2:22:12.840 --> 2:22:13.080 Yeah. 2:22:13.160 --> 2:22:18.600 That guy Benches. That guy could like bench a small 2:22:18.680 --> 2:22:24.080 motor vehicle. Benches Shapiro. Yeah. 2:22:24.320 --> 2:22:28.360 More details and performers will be announced later, including how 2:22:28.440 --> 2:22:30.640 this will be broadcast, will be streamed online, or they 2:22:30.800 --> 2:22:33.880 trying to make a TV deal with someone like you know, Fox, 2:22:35.000 --> 2:22:37.920 you know, unclear how this will be broadcast, but it 2:22:38.040 --> 2:22:40.360 is something they're going to go through on last thing 2:22:40.360 --> 2:22:42.280 we should probably talk about before the break or I 2:22:42.280 --> 2:22:44.760 don't know, maybe maybe we could combine this with the 2:22:44.800 --> 2:22:48.040 section you wanted to talk about Robert on the infiltrations. 2:22:48.480 --> 2:22:52.760 But right after our Executive Disorder episode from two weeks ago, 2:22:53.160 --> 2:22:56.880 literally like like hours after, on October eighth, right wing 2:22:56.920 --> 2:22:59.800 influencers gathered at the White House to discuss with Trump 2:22:59.840 --> 2:23:05.880 and cabinet members their theories and carrowing stories of Antifa 2:23:06.360 --> 2:23:11.000 at this big Antifa roundtable. Yeah, I'm gonna play a 2:23:11.000 --> 2:23:15.200 short clip like a few seconds from Jack Pasoba get 2:23:15.200 --> 2:23:19.360 in there, noted far right extremist and poster. 2:23:19.560 --> 2:23:21.800 Jack Pasobic certainly noted poster. 2:23:22.240 --> 2:23:23.200 It's a great guy. 2:23:23.959 --> 2:23:25.800 Yeah, Antifa is real. 2:23:26.280 --> 2:23:30.480 Antifa has been around in various iterations for almost one 2:23:30.560 --> 2:23:33.160 hundred years, in some instances going back to the Weimar 2:23:33.240 --> 2:23:34.160 Republic in Germany. 2:23:35.160 --> 2:23:37.600 Huh, I wonder, I wonder why it went back to 2:23:37.640 --> 2:23:39.320 the Wymar republican Germany? 2:23:39.400 --> 2:23:42.440 What what what else was happening at that time in Geminy. 2:23:42.520 --> 2:23:46.039 It's very interesting you say that, Jack, Very interesting, Jack, 2:23:46.480 --> 2:23:50.440 what other opinions do you have on fimar Republic. 2:23:50.080 --> 2:23:56.920 Jack, Yeah, So this is worrisome, right, the fact that 2:23:56.959 --> 2:24:00.879 these idiots are getting to speak this close to power 2:24:00.879 --> 2:24:03.199 about their theory, which is basically that everyone they don't 2:24:03.320 --> 2:24:05.480 like or who has said anything they don't like as 2:24:05.520 --> 2:24:07.760 part of a terrorist organization and should be put in 2:24:07.800 --> 2:24:10.400 prisoner executed. Like that's the gist of what all of 2:24:10.440 --> 2:24:12.039 the people at that roundtable believe. 2:24:12.440 --> 2:24:14.520 A whole bunch of like, you know, post millennial people, 2:24:14.640 --> 2:24:17.320 and you know that that whole that whole right, like 2:24:17.400 --> 2:24:23.040 a genre of like you know, right wing antifa journalists, journalistic. 2:24:22.560 --> 2:24:27.160 Yes, everyone I don't like equals terrorists. Yes, So that's 2:24:27.200 --> 2:24:30.120 really worrisome, And I just I kind of wanted to 2:24:30.120 --> 2:24:33.879 make a note here to people that as a result 2:24:33.920 --> 2:24:36.640 of stuff like this, in case you somehow have not 2:24:37.120 --> 2:24:39.680 been aware of this, we're going to be seeing a 2:24:39.720 --> 2:24:43.039 massive ramp up in you know, not just attempts at prosecution, 2:24:43.520 --> 2:24:48.200 but at attempts to like infiltrate and get gotcha footage 2:24:48.240 --> 2:24:52.440 and audio of different left wing and anarchist groups that 2:24:52.680 --> 2:24:57.199 are going to be used as pretexts for like further crackdowns. 2:24:57.640 --> 2:24:59.560 I would say it's just a time to be aware 2:24:59.600 --> 2:25:02.800 of that and be aware of the fact that anytime 2:25:03.040 --> 2:25:05.480 you are speaking or at a public event where other 2:25:05.520 --> 2:25:09.560 people are speaking, you should assume that that's being recorded 2:25:09.800 --> 2:25:13.000 and that people will be pulling out the worst parts 2:25:13.040 --> 2:25:15.480 they can from it and trying to use that to 2:25:15.560 --> 2:25:18.480 destroy people's lives. And I bring that up because there's 2:25:18.520 --> 2:25:22.280 been a couple that just really broke today, some potentially 2:25:22.320 --> 2:25:25.800 pretty high profile examples of this. One of them is 2:25:25.800 --> 2:25:29.920 that at a panel for Firestorm Books, they had a speaker, 2:25:29.959 --> 2:25:33.560 guy named Eric King, who was convicted of a firebombing. 2:25:33.640 --> 2:25:37.480 He's a left wing activist. He spent almost ten years 2:25:37.520 --> 2:25:39.760 in prison, at a horrific time in prison, I mean, 2:25:39.840 --> 2:25:41.800 just abused by the system and some of the worst 2:25:41.840 --> 2:25:45.800 playways possible and is finally out. And Eric did a 2:25:45.840 --> 2:25:50.160 talk at Firestorm Books and he made basically his statement 2:25:50.200 --> 2:25:53.640 that activists need to hurt them where it counts, saying 2:25:53.680 --> 2:25:55.160 we can force them to shut the fuck up when 2:25:55.160 --> 2:25:57.080 it hurts they're walid enough, or you can find other 2:25:57.120 --> 2:26:01.520 ways to hurt them. Now that's not saying anything inherently illegal. Again, 2:26:01.560 --> 2:26:03.280 he starts it by saying we can force them to 2:26:03.280 --> 2:26:05.280 shut up when it hurts. Their wallet enough, that's talking 2:26:05.280 --> 2:26:08.240 about like boycotts and stuff, but the phrase other ways 2:26:08.240 --> 2:26:10.320 to hurt them is vague enough. That's pretty easy for 2:26:10.400 --> 2:26:13.720 these guys to cut stuff out. And I'm looking at 2:26:13.720 --> 2:26:17.640 a post by quote end quote investigated analysts for the 2:26:17.640 --> 2:26:21.920 Manhattan stut Smith. He's framing this as known ANTIFA firebomber 2:26:22.000 --> 2:26:27.199 calls for escalation, and again that's not necessarily an accurate 2:26:27.360 --> 2:26:30.000 look at what Eric was saying. But it's easy to 2:26:30.040 --> 2:26:33.120 pull stuff out like this from something like what appears 2:26:33.120 --> 2:26:36.280 to have been a fairly open zoom call that you know, 2:26:36.400 --> 2:26:39.520 is not hard for someone to get into and record 2:26:39.720 --> 2:26:42.160 and pull something out of to try and make the 2:26:42.200 --> 2:26:45.279 case that someone like Eric should be back in prison, 2:26:45.360 --> 2:26:48.960 or that Firestorm Books is a party, you know, providing 2:26:49.200 --> 2:26:53.560 material support to an extremist organization. And what I'm not 2:26:53.600 --> 2:26:55.560 trying to do is say like, and so people should 2:26:55.600 --> 2:26:57.959 not talk and gather in public because they're going to 2:26:57.959 --> 2:26:59.760 be doing this. But you need to be aware that 2:27:00.440 --> 2:27:03.560 anything said it's something like this that's in any way open, 2:27:03.920 --> 2:27:05.640 and even if you try to make it kind of 2:27:05.920 --> 2:27:08.720 more close than this, they will try to get people in. 2:27:09.240 --> 2:27:11.760 This is something that is increasingly going to happen, and 2:27:11.800 --> 2:27:14.920 so people just need to be You can't you can't 2:27:14.959 --> 2:27:18.440 just kind of hope that they're not paying attention. You 2:27:19.240 --> 2:27:21.640 have to be aware of the fact that they're out 2:27:21.640 --> 2:27:24.520 there and they're going to be trying to infiltrate any 2:27:24.560 --> 2:27:27.400 sort of thing like this they can to get pretexts 2:27:27.440 --> 2:27:31.960 for further crackdowns. And another recent example of this Frontlines 2:27:32.040 --> 2:27:36.360 tp USA, which is Turning Point ussays, I mean, it's 2:27:36.400 --> 2:27:40.760 their version of the actual Frontline journalism show. But they 2:27:42.160 --> 2:27:45.520 did an investigation where they went undercover to the Oakland 2:27:45.560 --> 2:27:50.040 in Seattle anarchist book fairs, right, and again, there's nothing 2:27:50.120 --> 2:27:53.240 wrong with doing those book fairs. I'm sure what they're 2:27:53.280 --> 2:27:56.600 doing here is pulling whatever quotes they could grab from 2:27:56.600 --> 2:28:00.000 people that sound bad out of context and using them. 2:28:00.120 --> 2:28:01.840 Tried to make the case that again, these are violent 2:28:01.879 --> 2:28:04.520 extremist events that need to be cracked down on. And 2:28:05.560 --> 2:28:08.960 I will reiterate I'm not saying don't do book fares. 2:28:09.000 --> 2:28:10.680 I'm not saying don't show up at events like this. 2:28:10.840 --> 2:28:13.320 I'm saying if you show up, be aware that stuff 2:28:13.320 --> 2:28:15.000 like this is going to be happening, that they're going 2:28:15.040 --> 2:28:17.120 to be people recording that they're going to be people 2:28:17.200 --> 2:28:22.000 trying to find what they can to destroy people who 2:28:22.040 --> 2:28:24.640 are at these events, and that that's something that needs 2:28:24.680 --> 2:28:27.080 to be in your threat model, right in terms of 2:28:27.280 --> 2:28:29.879 how you dress when you go there, how visible you are, 2:28:29.920 --> 2:28:33.000 and what you're willing to say around people, right, among 2:28:33.040 --> 2:28:36.120 other things. I guess what I'm saying is there's some 2:28:36.240 --> 2:28:39.200 jokes you shouldn't be making in public at events like 2:28:39.280 --> 2:28:41.320 this unless you want there to be a high risk 2:28:41.520 --> 2:28:43.760 of it coming back to bite you in the ass. 2:28:44.480 --> 2:28:44.640 Yeah. 2:28:44.680 --> 2:28:46.840 I think that's that's perfectly reasonable. 2:28:47.640 --> 2:28:47.920 Yep. 2:28:49.040 --> 2:28:54.160 During the Antifa roundtable panel, this guy named Seamus Brunner 2:28:54.760 --> 2:28:57.880 Samus shamous. It says, seem miss guys jeesus. It says, 2:28:57.879 --> 2:29:02.520 seems that is we're gonna ask to step you, right. 2:29:02.520 --> 2:29:05.800 That's that's a shame, but it says Seamus. The director 2:29:05.879 --> 2:29:10.720 of research at the Government Accountability Institute, discussed his theory 2:29:11.240 --> 2:29:16.240 of how a network of NGOs are funding Antifa. This 2:29:16.400 --> 2:29:18.520 is a this is a longer clip, but I think 2:29:18.600 --> 2:29:23.160 it's important to look at how they are approaching this, 2:29:23.800 --> 2:29:26.640 like how they are approaching this Antifa as an organization. 2:29:27.440 --> 2:29:30.359 This is not just a story about violence and chaos. 2:29:30.360 --> 2:29:33.720 As you alluded to, mister President, this is a money story. 2:29:34.240 --> 2:29:37.440 And at the Government Accountability Institute, my colleague and I, 2:29:37.560 --> 2:29:40.640 Peter Schweitzer and my I and our team, we follow 2:29:40.680 --> 2:29:42.520 the money and we followed it to the top of 2:29:42.600 --> 2:29:46.360 what we call the protest industrial complex Riot Inc. 2:29:48.080 --> 2:29:50.039 And we found a network of NGOs. 2:29:50.160 --> 2:29:53.440 It's not just the Soros network, the Open Society network, 2:29:53.440 --> 2:29:57.120 it's other funding networks, the Arabella funding network, the Tides 2:29:57.160 --> 2:30:02.440 funding network, nevill Roy Singham and his network, Foreign cash, 2:30:02.440 --> 2:30:04.920 and it's also big left wing funders. Some of them 2:30:04.920 --> 2:30:08.400 are not citizens of this country, mister Hans Yorg vis 2:30:08.440 --> 2:30:12.600 of Switzerland. They're pouring money into this entire ecosystem. And 2:30:12.640 --> 2:30:14.480 so I want to share three money facts with you 2:30:14.560 --> 2:30:18.640 about what we call Riot Inc. Number One, like any corporation, 2:30:19.240 --> 2:30:21.400 Riot Inc. Has many divisions. It doesn't just have the 2:30:21.480 --> 2:30:24.600 Antifa boots on the ground division. It has pr divisions, 2:30:24.600 --> 2:30:27.560 it has marketing divisions, it has a very well funded 2:30:27.600 --> 2:30:30.680 legal division to get these boots on the ground back 2:30:30.680 --> 2:30:33.680 on the streets as quickly as possible. But it does 2:30:33.720 --> 2:30:37.280 have those investors that I mentioned. Number two, we have 2:30:37.400 --> 2:30:43.320 identified dozens of radical organizations, not just the decentralized ANTIFA organizations, 2:30:43.320 --> 2:30:47.160 but dozens of radical organizations that have received more than 2:30:47.200 --> 2:30:50.960 one hundred million dollars from the riot ink investors. These 2:30:50.959 --> 2:30:52.959 would be the lawyer groups, These would be the groups 2:30:52.959 --> 2:30:58.560 that advocate for calling good honest Americans fascists, etc. And 2:30:58.560 --> 2:31:00.640 then three, I think the most shocking thing is that 2:31:00.680 --> 2:31:03.440 we have found that more than one hundred million dollars 2:31:03.480 --> 2:31:08.720 in US taxpayer funding has flowed into these funding networks, 2:31:09.040 --> 2:31:12.360 including at least four million dollars to these very groups themselves, 2:31:12.400 --> 2:31:16.120 not just ANTIFA types. But there was an event in 2:31:16.200 --> 2:31:20.680 Atlanta called Stop Coop City. Over sixty rioters were charged 2:31:20.720 --> 2:31:25.320 with domestic terrorism. These groups received money for that from 2:31:25.440 --> 2:31:28.280 both the billionaire class as well as taxpayer money. 2:31:28.320 --> 2:31:30.760 Is unclear what he's talking about in terms of taxpayer 2:31:30.800 --> 2:31:35.680 money going to the sixty rico defendants in Atlanta, but 2:31:36.080 --> 2:31:38.640 the structure he's talking about, how how this riot inc 2:31:38.720 --> 2:31:41.440 concludes not just like Antifa as in you know, people 2:31:41.480 --> 2:31:43.760 wearing black hoodies on the streets at a protest, but 2:31:44.280 --> 2:31:49.080 like you know, legal support organizations, even like like research 2:31:49.160 --> 2:31:52.640 organizations that you know advocate calling you know, good honest 2:31:52.640 --> 2:31:55.000 American's fascists, right this this could refer to groups like 2:31:55.080 --> 2:31:58.240 Media Matters or like Southern Poverty Law Center who do 2:31:58.560 --> 2:32:02.680 research into extreme organizations. They could be framing the people 2:32:02.720 --> 2:32:05.600 like that as a part of this whole ecosystem, and 2:32:05.760 --> 2:32:08.680 that's that's where they could be looking at for sources 2:32:08.680 --> 2:32:11.480 of money and funding and like tracking where that money 2:32:11.480 --> 2:32:14.920 goes is in groups like that. Not obviously you know, 2:32:15.600 --> 2:32:19.280 your average black clad ANTIFA protesters. Not it's not receiving 2:32:20.360 --> 2:32:24.240 payment for their presence at these at these events. But 2:32:24.360 --> 2:32:27.200 this guy went on to claim that quote unquote Riot 2:32:27.240 --> 2:32:32.640 Inc Funding Network also supports decentralized crowdfunding platforms which fund 2:32:32.800 --> 2:32:36.480 organizations like the ELM for John Brown Gun Club and 2:32:36.640 --> 2:32:40.959 the Socialist Rifle Association. After he went on this like 2:32:41.040 --> 2:32:45.400 three minute long speech, Trump asked him and other attendees 2:32:45.440 --> 2:32:49.560 that if they knew anything about like ANTIFA members, funders, 2:32:49.680 --> 2:32:53.120 or the organizational structure, to hand over that information to 2:32:53.280 --> 2:32:57.720 Pam Bondie or Cash Patel and Trump reiterated this multiple 2:32:57.720 --> 2:33:01.720 times during the roundtable, asking these you know, policy guys 2:33:01.760 --> 2:33:05.000 or quote unquote independent journalists to hand over their information 2:33:05.360 --> 2:33:09.240 to the authorities. Here's one version of him making this request. 2:33:09.720 --> 2:33:12.040 Do you know the name of any of the funders? 2:33:12.280 --> 2:33:14.280 Do you know the names, because if you do, I'd 2:33:14.320 --> 2:33:17.960 like you to give them to Cash or Pam. Absolutely well, Christy, yeah, 2:33:18.160 --> 2:33:20.000 we'll do as soon as you can. That's all of 2:33:20.040 --> 2:33:23.600 you because you probably know the names. After a certain 2:33:23.640 --> 2:33:26.120 period of time you tend to find out. But these 2:33:26.120 --> 2:33:28.760 are people that do not have good intention for the country, 2:33:28.760 --> 2:33:33.960 and that's uh treasons probably, So if you could, if 2:33:34.000 --> 2:33:37.119 you very important, if you could do that, it would 2:33:37.160 --> 2:33:39.959 be great. Nobody would know better than you. You'll figure it. 2:33:39.920 --> 2:33:43.520 Out, Ugh share man cool. 2:33:44.520 --> 2:33:48.400 During this roundtable, Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, reiterated how 2:33:48.440 --> 2:33:52.440 Antifa should be treated like an organized criminal gang and 2:33:52.440 --> 2:33:55.200 that law enforcement are going to quote unquote take the 2:33:55.240 --> 2:34:00.120 same approach as it does handling foreign drug cartels. It's 2:34:00.120 --> 2:34:02.400 a side note the United States has. 2:34:02.360 --> 2:34:05.400 Maybe that's what those guided miss repeatedly. 2:34:04.959 --> 2:34:10.680 Lodged missiles at what it claims are boats associated with 2:34:10.840 --> 2:34:12.000 foreign drug cartels. 2:34:12.400 --> 2:34:14.480 I'll just say we have an episode next week about 2:34:14.480 --> 2:34:17.800 the ongoing drone campaign in the Caribbean. 2:34:18.000 --> 2:34:22.119 Speaking of funders, here's some of. 2:34:22.160 --> 2:34:25.000 Ours for the Central Intelligenation. 2:34:37.400 --> 2:34:38.720 All right, we are back. 2:34:40.240 --> 2:34:42.840 I'm so nice to hear from the products and services 2:34:42.879 --> 2:34:43.920 that support this show. 2:34:43.760 --> 2:34:44.200 Brought to you. 2:34:44.240 --> 2:34:50.440 Buy Safari Land your one stop off God, I wish 2:34:50.480 --> 2:34:52.880 we had no. I don't actually starlight is some post 2:34:52.879 --> 2:34:55.640 ironic meaning that I should I should occur tails Farlight 2:34:55.720 --> 2:34:58.760 is in fact back. I will admit they do make 2:34:58.879 --> 2:35:02.959 very nice, nice bulletproof plate. I will say, talking of 2:35:03.040 --> 2:35:05.840 things that are very nice, this is a very nice 2:35:05.840 --> 2:35:12.320 song that I like to listen to in my free time. Sorry, 2:35:13.240 --> 2:35:16.120 rocky jazz, rockety jazz. 2:35:16.280 --> 2:35:19.000 Goot, Sorry locking. 2:35:20.760 --> 2:35:23.279 Rocking jazz, rocking. 2:35:23.320 --> 2:35:28.560 Jazz, Bob, It's tariff talk. We're back baby, Yeah yeah. 2:35:28.760 --> 2:35:34.600 So literally within twelve hours, I think of the of 2:35:34.640 --> 2:35:38.400 the release at night of our last episode of the show, 2:35:39.800 --> 2:35:44.959 we got the resumption of the trade war. So specifically, 2:35:44.959 --> 2:35:47.960 Trump has announced effectively the full scale resumption of the 2:35:48.000 --> 2:35:52.240 trade war where China. This started kind of out of 2:35:52.360 --> 2:35:56.240 nowhere with Trump administration doing something that I think they 2:35:56.280 --> 2:35:59.880 didn't think was very provocative, because I don't quite think 2:36:00.040 --> 2:36:03.160 they understood the magnitude of what they were doing. This 2:36:03.280 --> 2:36:07.880 basically started with the Trump administration massively increasing export restrictions 2:36:07.879 --> 2:36:11.480 to China by changing the rules of what companies are 2:36:11.480 --> 2:36:13.560 covered by what's called the Entity List, which is a 2:36:13.560 --> 2:36:15.920 list of companies that American companies are not allowed to 2:36:15.920 --> 2:36:20.200 sell goods and services to. The administration moved this to 2:36:20.280 --> 2:36:23.119 include any company that is fifty percent or more owned 2:36:23.160 --> 2:36:26.080 by a company on the export list. We've discussed on 2:36:26.120 --> 2:36:28.120 the show before that a significant part of the structure 2:36:28.200 --> 2:36:31.480 of Chinese corporate conglomerates are held together by a bunch 2:36:31.520 --> 2:36:34.000 of different companies, you know, having partial ownership by the 2:36:34.000 --> 2:36:36.720 same holding companies, which is what sort of binds companies 2:36:36.720 --> 2:36:39.520 and conglomerates together and integrates them into the management structure 2:36:39.520 --> 2:36:43.000 of the conglomerates. This is how Chinese state owned enterprises work. 2:36:43.240 --> 2:36:46.279 Being state owned enterprise literally means that you are partly 2:36:46.400 --> 2:36:49.160 or completely owned by a holding company run by SASSAK, 2:36:49.200 --> 2:36:52.960 which is the State Owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission 2:36:52.959 --> 2:36:55.039 of the State Council. Because every name of the CCP 2:36:55.200 --> 2:36:58.320 is like that. So this shifts to anything that's fifty 2:36:58.320 --> 2:37:00.560 percent or more owned by a company on the list 2:37:00.600 --> 2:37:04.920 is actually a massive export restriction, and the Chinese government 2:37:04.959 --> 2:37:08.240 took this as okay, we're starting the trade war again, 2:37:08.600 --> 2:37:11.080 so very quickly there's a whole bunch of different tat 2:37:11.160 --> 2:37:13.080 things that we're not going to track the order of 2:37:13.160 --> 2:37:16.360 because they kind of don't matter. But on October tenth, 2:37:16.440 --> 2:37:19.600 Trump made a Twitter post where he said that he 2:37:19.680 --> 2:37:21.520 was going to implement a one hundred percent tariff and 2:37:21.560 --> 2:37:24.320 also a software restriction thing we'll talk about later. Those 2:37:24.360 --> 2:37:26.800 are supposed to go into effect on the first. He's 2:37:26.840 --> 2:37:30.359 also been talking in the last week about bringing tariffs 2:37:30.400 --> 2:37:33.560 up to one hundred and fifty percent. We don't have 2:37:33.720 --> 2:37:36.959 any kind of formal executive order on that. This was 2:37:37.480 --> 2:37:41.560 to some extent in response to China implementing massive restrictions 2:37:41.600 --> 2:37:45.160 on the export of rare earth metals. These are crucial 2:37:45.240 --> 2:37:51.519 to basically any kind of of advanced manufacturing industrial manufacturing applications, 2:37:51.560 --> 2:37:54.640 everything from chips, electric cars at jet fighters. These are 2:37:54.680 --> 2:37:57.000 set to take effect on December first. I'm going to 2:37:57.040 --> 2:37:59.400 read this from the New York Times to get an 2:37:59.440 --> 2:38:03.480 undersetting of how large these moves are. China refines ninety 2:38:03.560 --> 2:38:06.760 nine percent of the world's prosium, a kind of rare 2:38:06.760 --> 2:38:09.000 earth metal that is used in chips to preserve magnetic 2:38:09.080 --> 2:38:12.240 stability even when they become hot. In the last few years, 2:38:12.640 --> 2:38:16.119 Nvidia and other semi conductor manufacturers have changed the materials 2:38:16.200 --> 2:38:19.920 used in electricity management devices called capacitors, which is a 2:38:19.920 --> 2:38:21.840 really funny way to describe a capacitor, by the way, 2:38:21.879 --> 2:38:25.680 but on chips to make them more heat resistant. The 2:38:25.720 --> 2:38:29.480 capacitors are made from ultra pure dysprosium, which is extremely 2:38:29.520 --> 2:38:33.480 difficult to refine. A single refinery in Wushi, near Shanghai 2:38:33.560 --> 2:38:37.720 produces the entire world's supply, so prove New York Times. 2:38:37.760 --> 2:38:42.000 These export restrictions include any good that is produced with 2:38:42.120 --> 2:38:45.760 these rare earth metals, and require foreign companies operating in China, 2:38:45.840 --> 2:38:48.760 like for example, Samsung or any of the sort of 2:38:48.840 --> 2:38:52.480 South Korean or Taiwanese chip manufacturers to acquire export licenses 2:38:53.080 --> 2:38:56.880 to sell them to any other country that's not China. 2:38:58.120 --> 2:39:04.520 That is a absolutely massive restriction on export goods and 2:39:04.680 --> 2:39:08.840 also again a whole bunch of critical minerals that both 2:39:09.160 --> 2:39:12.879 the American military apparatus relies on and the American tech 2:39:12.920 --> 2:39:16.760 apparatus relies on. AI chips need a whole bunch of 2:39:16.800 --> 2:39:20.640 these things, so you know, in the middle of this process, 2:39:20.680 --> 2:39:24.720 the US also started charging Chinese built ships for docking 2:39:24.800 --> 2:39:28.600 at US ports, which China retaliated by imposing docking fees 2:39:28.959 --> 2:39:31.280 for American ships. I'm gonna gain read from New York 2:39:31.280 --> 2:39:34.240 Times here. The new rules are the most stringent for 2:39:34.360 --> 2:39:37.240 Chinese shipping companies, which for the most part, cannot avoid 2:39:37.240 --> 2:39:41.480 the levies. HSBC, an investment bank, estimated that Costco not 2:39:41.560 --> 2:39:45.800 that Costco different one, a large Chinese shipping line could 2:39:45.800 --> 2:39:48.160 pay one point five billion dollars in fees next year, 2:39:48.360 --> 2:39:51.120 which the bank said could reduce Costco's operating earnings by 2:39:51.160 --> 2:39:55.360 nearly three fourths in twenty twenty six. Again, it's it's 2:39:55.400 --> 2:39:58.439 worth it's worth noting that these shipping, these shipping companies 2:39:58.480 --> 2:40:02.200 are the backbone of blow trade. They also their margins 2:40:02.240 --> 2:40:04.400 are not very good and a significant number of them 2:40:04.440 --> 2:40:08.440 basically only didn't go under dream lock during the lockdowns 2:40:08.560 --> 2:40:15.560 because they effectively lied on their loan applications. And we're 2:40:15.600 --> 2:40:18.120 just sort of putting in their revenue as if the 2:40:18.160 --> 2:40:21.560 lockdowns weren't happening. So this is all very very fragile 2:40:21.560 --> 2:40:26.199 infrastructure that is being you know, attacked, and these these 2:40:26.320 --> 2:40:27.600 port fees are already in. 2:40:27.600 --> 2:40:31.680 Effect me doing gay cruising on my European trip. Yeah, 2:40:31.720 --> 2:40:33.520 I like global trade, all right. 2:40:33.600 --> 2:40:38.720 I continue, Oh god, Okay, So we also got to 2:40:38.760 --> 2:40:42.080 report today this is this is Wednesday, the twenty seconds 2:40:42.120 --> 2:40:44.600 this is being reported, So who fucking knows what will 2:40:44.640 --> 2:40:46.760 be happening by the time this episode comes out. But 2:40:46.840 --> 2:40:49.879 on Wednesday we got to report from Reuters about the 2:40:50.160 --> 2:40:52.640 other one of the other options that Shrum administration is 2:40:52.680 --> 2:40:57.360 considering for these massive sort of trade attacks on China. 2:40:58.160 --> 2:41:00.760 So I said, I said earlier when I talked about 2:41:00.760 --> 2:41:04.920 the one hundred percent tariff, Trump also mentioned a software 2:41:05.000 --> 2:41:11.039 export ban. So perb Reuters, what's being considered here, and 2:41:11.080 --> 2:41:14.359 again we have note we have very few concrete details 2:41:14.400 --> 2:41:18.320 about this. This hasn't been formally announced. My guests is 2:41:18.320 --> 2:41:20.640 that it's being leaked to Reuters by the administration, but 2:41:20.680 --> 2:41:24.360 I just don't know. But what they're considering, basically is 2:41:25.120 --> 2:41:28.960 a version of the sanctions that effectively Biden applied to 2:41:29.040 --> 2:41:32.560 Russia after the invasion of Ukraine, which restricts the export 2:41:32.600 --> 2:41:36.160 of any product maade with US software. This would be 2:41:36.640 --> 2:41:40.160 probably the most significant developments of the entire trade war. 2:41:41.080 --> 2:41:44.520 And so these are all incredibly significant escalations. A bunch 2:41:44.520 --> 2:41:46.880 of the stuff is set to go into effect on 2:41:46.920 --> 2:41:51.840 November first, which is very very soon now. In theory, 2:41:51.959 --> 2:41:55.240 Trump and Chijianping are supposed to meet at the meeting 2:41:55.400 --> 2:41:58.840 of the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation Forum in South Korea, 2:41:58.920 --> 2:42:01.800 but there's been no formalnouncements of their meeting. Trump that 2:42:01.840 --> 2:42:05.440 he was going to go to China and early next year, 2:42:05.600 --> 2:42:08.560 but that's again next year. The American one hundred percent 2:42:08.560 --> 2:42:12.440 tariff again November first. The Chinese export restrictions on rare 2:42:12.400 --> 2:42:13.920 earth metals again December first. 2:42:14.200 --> 2:42:15.080 Yeah. 2:42:15.480 --> 2:42:19.160 The other issue here is that the actual event starts 2:42:19.200 --> 2:42:21.680 on October thirty first, and the first terrorists going to 2:42:21.720 --> 2:42:22.960 affect the next day. 2:42:23.440 --> 2:42:25.080 Very spooky, very spooky, indeed. 2:42:26.040 --> 2:42:29.920 Yeah, And so Trump is mad also about China refusing 2:42:29.920 --> 2:42:34.000 to buy American soybeans, the story we've been covering. Yeah, 2:42:34.040 --> 2:42:37.360 and you know, he's complaining about the rare earth metal stuff, 2:42:37.360 --> 2:42:40.960 and he's complaining about he's still yelling about fence and all. 2:42:41.480 --> 2:42:43.880 But it's also worth mentioning one of the fascinating things 2:42:43.959 --> 2:42:47.640 is Trump is continuing to piss off even more parts 2:42:47.680 --> 2:42:50.520 of his base with this stuff. So soybean farmers, which 2:42:50.560 --> 2:42:54.040 is again a huge portion of American farmers, are really 2:42:54.040 --> 2:42:57.320 mad at him. He's also pissing off cattle ranchers. So 2:42:57.480 --> 2:42:59.680 both the soybean farmers and the cattle ranchers are mad 2:42:59.680 --> 2:43:01.840 at for giving a bunch of money to Argentina and 2:43:01.879 --> 2:43:03.600 not giving them a bunch of money and cutting off 2:43:03.600 --> 2:43:06.280 their acts to Chinese markets because Argentina again is selling 2:43:06.320 --> 2:43:08.240 a whole bunch of stuff to China. One of the 2:43:08.240 --> 2:43:10.720 things that they sell to China is beef because Argentina 2:43:10.760 --> 2:43:13.640 is a major beef exporter, So they're all really mad 2:43:13.680 --> 2:43:17.600 at him for giving Argentina a giant bailout in order 2:43:17.680 --> 2:43:19.920 to try to save if they're failing economy under their 2:43:20.600 --> 2:43:25.240 unhinged an arco capitalist and president who has annihilated the 2:43:25.280 --> 2:43:29.080 economy even more than it was before. And then Trump's 2:43:29.080 --> 2:43:31.320 response to the cattle ranchers being mad at him was 2:43:31.360 --> 2:43:33.920 telling them to lower their prices, which means they're even 2:43:33.920 --> 2:43:37.920 more mad at him. So he is systematically alienating two 2:43:38.160 --> 2:43:40.640 of what should be his most important basis of support. 2:43:40.680 --> 2:43:43.400 And like the cattle industry has been a based Republican 2:43:43.400 --> 2:43:47.240 support for I mean since time in memorial. Effectively, the 2:43:47.320 --> 2:43:50.600 lumber and vanity tariffs so we mentioned last week have 2:43:50.800 --> 2:43:55.320 taken effect. Now there's been no rollback of them. And finally, 2:43:55.360 --> 2:43:57.600 I want to close on a story that we're going 2:43:57.600 --> 2:44:01.920 to be covering more on Monday, which is the continuing 2:44:02.040 --> 2:44:05.920 escalation of a sort of conflict between Colombia and the 2:44:06.120 --> 2:44:11.720 US after the US murdered about full of what appeared 2:44:11.720 --> 2:44:15.480 to be Columbian fishermen. Yes, Columbia has recalled its ambassador 2:44:15.480 --> 2:44:18.680 and in the US has said that it is going 2:44:18.720 --> 2:44:22.480 to eliminate all foreign aid and impose a tariff, the 2:44:22.560 --> 2:44:25.800 size of which they haven't given a consistent number. Four 2:44:27.040 --> 2:44:30.400 And this is, you know, very much could look like 2:44:30.600 --> 2:44:35.000 a pretty massive reorientation of American policy around Columbia, which 2:44:35.000 --> 2:44:37.080 has traditionally been an American ally and we've ran desk 2:44:37.080 --> 2:44:41.520 squads out of there for a very very long time. Yeah, 2:44:41.560 --> 2:44:44.720 and that has been the lightning round rapid fire trade 2:44:44.720 --> 2:44:52.400 war coverage because oh boy, yeah, yay, we've tariff talked 2:44:52.760 --> 2:44:53.200 all right. 2:44:53.879 --> 2:44:56.360 Before we close, I don't want to talk a little 2:44:56.400 --> 2:44:59.640 bit about one of the news stories this week about 2:44:59.680 --> 2:45:03.400 a US political figures being like Nazism. No, not the 2:45:04.840 --> 2:45:09.520 main candidate, and no, not that other Republican staffer who 2:45:09.560 --> 2:45:13.680 had a swastika in his cubicle. The political story that 2:45:15.080 --> 2:45:20.400 leaked messages from the New York Young Republican telegram chat, 2:45:20.520 --> 2:45:23.400 which already tells you that it's going to be problematic 2:45:23.480 --> 2:45:25.800 the fact that they have a telegram chat. But The 2:45:25.879 --> 2:45:29.240 Political reported that this chat contained messages about putting political 2:45:29.240 --> 2:45:33.000 opponents in gas chambers, loving Hitler, as well as plenty 2:45:33.040 --> 2:45:36.959 of anti semitism, talking about raping their enemies, and hundreds 2:45:37.000 --> 2:45:40.320 of uses of homophobic and racistlers. The chair of the 2:45:40.320 --> 2:45:44.560 New York State Young Republicans, Bobby Walker, allegedly called rape 2:45:44.600 --> 2:45:47.600 epic and wrote in the chat quote if we ever 2:45:47.720 --> 2:45:50.680 had a leak of this chat, we would be cooked 2:45:51.080 --> 2:45:57.600 on quote New York Republican Elease Stephanic first denounced this 2:45:57.800 --> 2:46:02.320 chat after the report, though later called the Politico piece 2:46:02.400 --> 2:46:06.039 a quote unquote hit job. The Matt Walsh side of 2:46:06.120 --> 2:46:11.680 the online right condemned those who leaked the chats, neglecting 2:46:11.920 --> 2:46:15.840 to discuss the substance of the chat itself, while Vance 2:46:16.040 --> 2:46:19.640 largely dismissed the affair, writing on x the Everything app 2:46:19.720 --> 2:46:23.360 quote I refused to join the pearl clutching when powerful 2:46:23.400 --> 2:46:27.320 people call for political violence unquote. Vance falsely referred to 2:46:27.360 --> 2:46:30.800 this as a college group chat when TEA members were 2:46:30.840 --> 2:46:34.600 as old as forty years old. A day later, while 2:46:34.640 --> 2:46:38.360 guesting on The Charlie Kirk Show, Jade Vance continued to 2:46:38.400 --> 2:46:41.720 push back on the seriousness of this story and play 2:46:41.800 --> 2:46:44.400 defense by repeatedly referring to the grown men involved, who 2:46:44.400 --> 2:46:48.360 are in their twenties and forties as kids and young boys. 2:46:49.040 --> 2:46:51.400 Somehow they got their hands on something like twenty eight 2:46:51.440 --> 2:46:55.760 thousand messages in someat group chat of I think twelve 2:46:55.760 --> 2:46:57.320 people that nobody's. 2:46:56.920 --> 2:46:57.400 Ever heard of. 2:46:57.440 --> 2:46:59.800 But they decided to just publish every single thing in 2:46:59.840 --> 2:47:01.720 the chat, whatever they found that they thought was the 2:47:01.760 --> 2:47:06.280 most salacious, and I think ten years ago there would 2:47:06.280 --> 2:47:08.760 have been a very different response to it. But people 2:47:08.840 --> 2:47:11.720 are starting to learn from this, and the vice president 2:47:11.760 --> 2:47:13.600 is one of the reasons why I'm sorry. 2:47:13.640 --> 2:47:16.320 Focus on the real issues, don't focus on what kids 2:47:16.360 --> 2:47:18.640 say in group chats. But there's another angle to this 2:47:18.720 --> 2:47:20.800 that I just have to be honest about. I mean, 2:47:20.800 --> 2:47:22.200 I'm like an old guy at this one. I'm forty 2:47:22.240 --> 2:47:25.840 one years old, I have three kids. You know, I 2:47:25.879 --> 2:47:28.480 grew up in a different world, right where not most 2:47:28.480 --> 2:47:30.320 of what the stupid things that I did when I 2:47:30.360 --> 2:47:33.000 was a teenager and a young adult, they're not on 2:47:33.040 --> 2:47:35.880 the Internet, Like I'm going to tell my kids, especially 2:47:35.920 --> 2:47:39.040 my boys, don't put things on the internet. 2:47:38.640 --> 2:47:40.400 Like, be careful with what you post. 2:47:40.720 --> 2:47:42.920 If you put something in a group chat, assume that 2:47:42.959 --> 2:47:44.960 some scumbag is going to leak it in an effort 2:47:45.000 --> 2:47:47.279 to try to cause you harm or cause your family harm. 2:47:47.640 --> 2:47:51.720 But the reality is that kids do stupid things, especially 2:47:51.760 --> 2:47:55.480 young boys. They tell edgy, offensive jokes, like that's what 2:47:55.640 --> 2:47:58.160 kids do. And I really don't want us to grow 2:47:58.200 --> 2:48:01.160 up in a country where a kid selling a stupid joke, 2:48:01.320 --> 2:48:05.080 telling a very offensive, stupid joke is caused to ruin 2:48:05.160 --> 2:48:07.440 their lives. And at some point we're all going to 2:48:07.520 --> 2:48:10.680 have to say enough of this, bs. We're not going 2:48:10.680 --> 2:48:14.040 to allow the worst moment and a twenty one year 2:48:14.080 --> 2:48:16.680 old's group chat to ruin a kid's life for the 2:48:16.720 --> 2:48:19.520 rest of time. That's just not okay. Like we live 2:48:19.520 --> 2:48:23.000 in a digital world. This stuff is now extin stone online. 2:48:23.160 --> 2:48:25.400 We're all going to have to say, you know what, no, no, no, 2:48:25.600 --> 2:48:28.560 we're not doing this. We're not canceling kids because they 2:48:28.640 --> 2:48:31.440 do something stupid in a group chat. And if I 2:48:31.480 --> 2:48:33.440 have to be the person who carries that message forward, 2:48:33.480 --> 2:48:34.160 I'm fine. 2:48:33.959 --> 2:48:36.560 With it, right once again, most of these guys are 2:48:36.720 --> 2:48:40.240 like in their thirties. These guys are our adults. You know, 2:48:40.320 --> 2:48:42.560 the New York Young Republicans is not a whole bunch 2:48:42.600 --> 2:48:47.199 of kids. These are young like political in political years, 2:48:47.600 --> 2:48:52.160 because everyone who runs the country is quasi geriatric. Self 2:48:52.160 --> 2:48:56.199 proclaimed theocratic fascist Matt Walsh said, quote, the right doesn't 2:48:56.240 --> 2:48:58.359 stick together. That's our biggest problem. 2:48:58.480 --> 2:48:58.959 By far. 2:48:59.320 --> 2:49:02.520 Conservatives are quick to denounce each other, jump on dog piles, 2:49:02.560 --> 2:49:05.520 disavow attack their allies. I said a few weeks ago 2:49:05.600 --> 2:49:08.280 that we all need to band together in the wake 2:49:08.360 --> 2:49:10.840 of Charlie's death, and the answer I got back from 2:49:10.879 --> 2:49:14.560 a lot of people on the right was basically no, well, okay, 2:49:14.600 --> 2:49:18.240 then guys, we'll just lose. Instead, the left will keep 2:49:18.520 --> 2:49:23.120 up the United Front and defend their guys no matter what. Well, 2:49:23.160 --> 2:49:26.680 we keep throwing each other to the wolves at every opportunity. 2:49:26.840 --> 2:49:33.000 Great plan. Unquote. Shapiro did beef a bit with Walsh 2:49:33.040 --> 2:49:37.560 on one of their daily Wire group podcasts regarding the 2:49:37.560 --> 2:49:41.240 substance of these chats. Shapiro did seem more concerned at 2:49:41.240 --> 2:49:45.280 the growing anti Semitic and not see fascistic element of 2:49:45.320 --> 2:49:49.680 the Republican Party whereas Walsh is does not care about 2:49:49.720 --> 2:49:52.800 that at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, not a problem 2:49:52.800 --> 2:49:56.959 for a self proclaimed theocratic fascist Matt Walsh. So that's 2:49:57.040 --> 2:49:59.480 that's one side of this whole political story that I 2:49:59.480 --> 2:50:02.040 wanted to talk about. You should just read the political piece. 2:50:02.120 --> 2:50:04.200 I'm sure lots of people have. It got pretty popular 2:50:04.200 --> 2:50:06.879 a few days ago. But I find the sort of 2:50:07.720 --> 2:50:09.320 I mean, I would have called it like the dissident 2:50:09.400 --> 2:50:12.199 right reaction, but when you have the vice president as like, yep, 2:50:12.480 --> 2:50:14.680 the guy leading the charge on this type of stuff, 2:50:14.720 --> 2:50:17.640 it's not really distanct Like there is a large number 2:50:17.640 --> 2:50:21.640 of Republicans who are condemning the contents of this chat, 2:50:22.160 --> 2:50:24.199 but you do have the vice president of the country 2:50:24.840 --> 2:50:27.400 playing defense for it, yeah, and for the people involved. 2:50:27.480 --> 2:50:29.280 And I think this is actually a very important thing 2:50:29.320 --> 2:50:32.440 about what the structure of the Republican Party is right now, 2:50:32.440 --> 2:50:35.600 which is these kind of low levels like staffers, right, 2:50:35.920 --> 2:50:37.640 the young Republican people, and these are a bunch of 2:50:37.680 --> 2:50:39.640 people who are also making White House policy. You know, 2:50:39.680 --> 2:50:43.120 Stephen Miller is you know, the guy who's doing a 2:50:43.120 --> 2:50:45.520 whole bunch of a whole bunch of the sort of 2:50:45.560 --> 2:50:50.360 ethnic cleansing deportation policy right now are just Nazis. They're 2:50:50.560 --> 2:50:52.880 just Nazis. And every time one of these group chats 2:50:52.879 --> 2:50:55.680 comes out, it looks like this. And that's a really 2:50:55.720 --> 2:50:59.000 significant factor in why American politics looks like this, which 2:50:59.000 --> 2:51:01.440 is that like the the people who are entering the 2:51:01.480 --> 2:51:04.520 Republican Party right now, who are like their sort of 2:51:04.680 --> 2:51:08.560 youth wing quote unquote, are these people and we're seeing 2:51:08.760 --> 2:51:10.280 their policies get enacted. 2:51:10.560 --> 2:51:11.520 It fucking sucks. 2:51:12.240 --> 2:51:14.600 I mean it's often baked in this like post ironic, 2:51:14.920 --> 2:51:18.560 like like joking way, where you know, obviously the Nazi 2:51:19.680 --> 2:51:22.119 some people in these circles say, obviously the Nazis themselves 2:51:22.120 --> 2:51:26.439 are bad, but we're using this as like a memetic signifier. Yeah, 2:51:26.480 --> 2:51:28.760 for like nationalism and for all of these things. Now 2:51:28.760 --> 2:51:30.360 there is a fair number of people who just will 2:51:30.360 --> 2:51:33.680 straight up defend the Nazis absolutely, but I think it's 2:51:33.680 --> 2:51:38.040 it's it goes beyond, like like this isn't German national socialism, 2:51:38.120 --> 2:51:40.959 Like it goes, it goes, it goes beyond to like 2:51:41.240 --> 2:51:45.279 they're using Nazism as a meme for their political project, 2:51:45.640 --> 2:51:48.320 and memes get used a lot in these types of 2:51:48.440 --> 2:51:51.000 safe spaces where people can joke around. So you see 2:51:51.000 --> 2:51:53.920 that very clearly here, but you also see it on 2:51:54.000 --> 2:51:57.080 like the DHS Twitter account you use, you see the 2:51:57.120 --> 2:51:59.080 same kind of like post ironic stuff, like a few 2:51:59.120 --> 2:52:02.520 weeks ago they we're fucking moon Man posting. You can 2:52:02.600 --> 2:52:04.560 google that one if you want to. We don't have 2:52:04.600 --> 2:52:08.920 time to explain, but that's a very old like internet 2:52:09.000 --> 2:52:12.320 nazi dog whistle. Yeah, and you know we've I've talked 2:52:12.360 --> 2:52:15.800 a decent bit about my feelings on like focusing a 2:52:15.840 --> 2:52:19.400 lot on like the DHS Twitter dog whistles. But yeah, 2:52:19.440 --> 2:52:22.360 it is it is in invoking of this stuff for 2:52:22.400 --> 2:52:26.160 this like mimetic like archetypal context that they surround themselves in. 2:52:26.640 --> 2:52:29.199 Yeah, and then you know, doing the actual thing, which 2:52:29.240 --> 2:52:31.560 is going out and rounding up a whole bunch of 2:52:31.840 --> 2:52:35.039 doing these Ice rights now white people and yeah, like. 2:52:35.080 --> 2:52:38.520 The ICE recruiting ads are like the clearest example of 2:52:38.680 --> 2:52:42.039 using this type of memetic imagery for their actual political 2:52:42.040 --> 2:52:44.840 project and then to act the thing physically. And it's 2:52:44.920 --> 2:52:48.080 it's very clear there because there's very little disconnect. It's 2:52:48.160 --> 2:52:49.480 an immediate transference. 2:52:49.920 --> 2:52:51.520 Yeah, it's a very straight line. 2:52:51.800 --> 2:52:54.959 Yeah, James want to close us up on the Great 2:52:54.959 --> 2:52:55.760 State of Alaska. 2:52:56.560 --> 2:52:59.960 Yeah, I'm talking about something and it's a great in Alaska. 2:53:00.280 --> 2:53:01.760 But we normally do your fundraiser at the end, so 2:53:01.800 --> 2:53:03.320 I wanted to put this here for those of you 2:53:03.320 --> 2:53:06.920 who are not aware, because this has really got enough coverage, 2:53:06.959 --> 2:53:10.359 in my opinion, A massive storm, in fact, the remnants 2:53:10.400 --> 2:53:13.240 of a typhoon slammed into the west coast of Alaska, 2:53:13.320 --> 2:53:16.800 leaving more than a thousand people without shelter along the 2:53:16.920 --> 2:53:21.560 Yukon Coskoquim River. These are Alaska Native villages, and their 2:53:21.600 --> 2:53:25.080 inhabitants are now climate refugees at the very start of winter, 2:53:25.360 --> 2:53:29.480 right in the coldest place in the United States. These 2:53:29.800 --> 2:53:33.240 villages are very remote. I spend some time earlier this 2:53:33.360 --> 2:53:36.240 year in Alaska Native village, not here in the interior, 2:53:36.480 --> 2:53:41.480 just in the Quichan territories. But these guys are really 2:53:41.480 --> 2:53:46.120 only accessible by small planes or by boats, which will 2:53:46.160 --> 2:53:48.800 make their recovery even harder. 2:53:49.080 --> 2:53:49.200 Right. 2:53:49.560 --> 2:53:51.840 They're people who have lived by the ocean or by 2:53:51.840 --> 2:53:54.240 the river for as long as people have lived in 2:53:54.280 --> 2:53:57.320 the Americas, tens of thousands of years. 2:53:57.400 --> 2:53:57.600 Right. 2:53:58.280 --> 2:54:01.760 A few months ago, the Trump canceled the twenty million 2:54:01.879 --> 2:54:06.000 dollar ground for flood protection, which would have covered Kipnook. 2:54:06.040 --> 2:54:09.320 One of these villages, Kipnook now and functioning doesn't exist. 2:54:09.440 --> 2:54:11.320 Houses were torn off their foundations. 2:54:11.400 --> 2:54:11.560 Right. 2:54:11.680 --> 2:54:16.520 There are multiple videos of people's whole houses floating away. 2:54:17.000 --> 2:54:19.959 It's not just an instance of neglect or even a 2:54:20.000 --> 2:54:23.480 single failure here, It's an example of decades of ignoring 2:54:23.480 --> 2:54:26.720 the voices of Indigenous people, especially Alaska Natives, when they 2:54:26.720 --> 2:54:28.879 tell us that the climate crisis is real and that 2:54:28.920 --> 2:54:34.800 it's already here. Right. When the media looks at climate change, 2:54:35.680 --> 2:54:37.480 they tend to want to look at data they can 2:54:37.520 --> 2:54:39.840 measure in terms of numbers, right, according to the model 2:54:39.879 --> 2:54:43.040 of Western science. But I would argue that the experience 2:54:43.080 --> 2:54:44.840 of Indigenous people who have lived on the land for 2:54:44.840 --> 2:54:47.840 as long as human beings have lived anywhere on this 2:54:47.920 --> 2:54:52.439 continent and have watched the changes and seen this disaster unfold, 2:54:52.879 --> 2:54:54.800 should be a warning to all of us that the 2:54:54.800 --> 2:54:58.440 climate crisis is already here. I reached out to some 2:54:58.480 --> 2:55:02.160 Alaska Native friends to ask where to donate, and they 2:55:02.320 --> 2:55:05.959 shared a page which will be in the show notes 2:55:05.959 --> 2:55:07.720 of the show. So if you're able to help, I 2:55:07.760 --> 2:55:09.840 think that's very important thing to do. Recovery for these 2:55:09.879 --> 2:55:14.240 people with this federal government, with being as remote as 2:55:14.320 --> 2:55:18.200 they are, will be horrifically difficult. Right now, many of 2:55:18.240 --> 2:55:20.600 them are living in anchorage right Like I said, they're 2:55:20.600 --> 2:55:22.240 going into the winter and then they don't have a 2:55:22.280 --> 2:55:26.840 place to live. It's an unmitigated disaster. So if you're 2:55:26.879 --> 2:55:30.279 able to help, I think it would be very much appreciated. 2:55:30.879 --> 2:55:32.480 Before I go, I will say that if you would 2:55:32.480 --> 2:55:35.840 like to email us, you can use our proton mail address, 2:55:36.200 --> 2:55:39.520 cool Zone Tips at proton dot me. If you send 2:55:39.520 --> 2:55:41.840 from a proton mail address and it's encrypted from one 2:55:41.920 --> 2:55:42.959 end to the other end. 2:55:43.720 --> 2:55:44.640 We reported the news. 2:55:45.480 --> 2:55:56.600 We reported the news. Hey, We'll be back Monday with 2:55:56.800 --> 2:55:59.560 more episodes every week from now until the heat death 2:55:59.600 --> 2:56:00.000 of the Universe. 2:56:01.000 --> 2:56:03.480 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 2:56:03.680 --> 2:56:06.720 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 2:56:06.840 --> 2:56:10.400 coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 2:56:10.480 --> 2:56:14.039 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 2:56:14.080 --> 2:56:16.440 now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly 2:56:16.440 --> 2:56:18.760 in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.