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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this

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Speaker 2: election and we are so excited about what that means

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Speaker 2: for the future of this show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday. Have an amazing show for

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Speaker 1: everybody today.

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Speaker 4: What do we have, Crystal, Indeed, we do.

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Speaker 2: Lots of interesting developments out there in the world. We

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Speaker 2: are going to update you on the quote unquote drone

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Speaker 2: situation in New Jersey and very excited to get to

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Speaker 2: talk to Rich McHugh, who is a fantastic journalist.

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Speaker 4: We've actually known him for quite a while.

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Speaker 2: He helped Rodan Pharaoh break the story about however You Wednesday,

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Speaker 2: and he is now over at news Nation and it's

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Speaker 2: been all over this drone story has probably done the

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Speaker 2: best reporting on it, so he's going to join us

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Speaker 2: for and update this.

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Speaker 4: Monk really looking forward to that.

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Speaker 2: We have Rocanna back in the studio to talk about

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Speaker 2: the Democrats, whatever's going on with them. It looks like

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Speaker 2: Pelosi was successful in blocking AOC from being chair of

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Speaker 2: the Oversight Committee.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot to talk to there.

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Speaker 2: And Rowe also had a fantastic op ed that we

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Speaker 2: want to get his reaction to about money in politics

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Speaker 2: and how Democrats can move.

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Speaker 4: On from their big donor era.

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Speaker 2: We also have some updates for you on that very

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Speaker 2: weird and very fake feeling CNN Syria prisoner rescue video.

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Speaker 2: We now know the identity of this individual, although a

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Speaker 2: lot of questions remain about just what the hell was

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Speaker 2: going on there, so break that down for you. Also

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Speaker 2: have a deeply troubling story out of California and Open

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Speaker 2: AI whistleblower was found dead. We will tell you what

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Speaker 2: he was saying, what he was warning about, and the

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Speaker 2: circumstances surrounding his death. I'm taking a look at Bernie

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Speaker 2: Sanders warning about American oligarchy and Sager is talking about Japan.

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Speaker 4: Yes, what reflections on your trip, give us a.

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Speaker 3: Little previews, just why it's the greatest country in the world,

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Speaker 3: why it challenges all the foundational myths of the United States,

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Speaker 3: and what a real great society should look like, and

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Speaker 3: why we should aspire to be more like the Japanese

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Speaker 3: and not reverse.

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Speaker 4: Why do I have a feeling like I'm going to disagree.

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Speaker 1: You've never been? How would you know? You know?

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Speaker 3: You know, that's one of those you have to see

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Speaker 3: it to believe it. You have to understand and what

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Speaker 3: it's like to feel absolute physical peace in a major

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Speaker 3: metropolitan area, something basically impossible in the United States of

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Speaker 3: America and basically the entire Western world.

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Speaker 1: So perhaps it's what we can see from them.

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Speaker 3: And if you're interested in the obesity crisis, safety, public safety,

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Speaker 3: American innovation, theories of capitalism.

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Speaker 4: They have like a massive birth rate crisis.

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Speaker 1: Of course, they absolutely problem.

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Speaker 3: I think they'll you know what, as with all things

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Speaker 3: throughout the centuries, they figured it out and I have

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Speaker 3: faith in them.

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Speaker 1: They should not listen to us, We should listen to them.

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Speaker 4: All right, Well, I will listen with an open mind,

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Speaker 4: and we.

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Speaker 1: Chelsea has universal healthcare.

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Speaker 3: You should be happy about that, Okay, let's talk about

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Speaker 3: the drones, shall we. We've got a little bit of

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Speaker 3: an update here for President elect Donald Trump is alleging

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Speaker 3: a massive government cover up.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 4: You comment on the drones that are flying out New

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Speaker 4: Years reports, and it seems like they're people have a

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Speaker 4: big distance the government.

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Speaker 5: The government knows what is happening. Look, our military knows

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Speaker 5: where they took off from.

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Speaker 3: If it's a.

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Speaker 5: Garage, they can go right into that garage. They know

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Speaker 5: where it came from and where it went. And for

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Speaker 5: some reason they don't want to comment, and I think

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Speaker 5: they'd be better off saying what it is. Our military knows,

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Speaker 5: and our president knows, and for some reason they want

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Speaker 5: to keep people in suspense. I can't imagine it's the enemy,

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Speaker 5: because it was the enemy they'd blasted out, even if

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Speaker 5: they were late, they'd blasted Something strange is going on.

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Speaker 5: For some reason, they don't want to tell the people,

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Speaker 5: and they should because the people are really I mean,

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Speaker 5: they happen to be over Bedminster. We want to know

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Speaker 5: they're they're very they're very close to Bedminster. I think

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Speaker 5: maybe I won't spend the weekend in bed Minster. I've

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Speaker 5: decided to cancel my trip.

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Speaker 1: An intelligence briefing on the drones.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to comment on that, all right, So

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Speaker 3: he doesn't want to comment on that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that was actually a good follow up.

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Speaker 1: That's not fantastic.

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Speaker 2: Hey, you know, you get these intelligence briefings now you

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Speaker 2: want to share anything with us.

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Speaker 1: Now, I'm not going to comment exactly right now.

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Speaker 3: When he says a couple of things like we know

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Speaker 3: where the drones took off, we know what they are,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. But they don't want to know. Is he

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Speaker 3: speaking from an informed position or not? Remember is the

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Speaker 3: president elect of the United States. You get the full

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Speaker 3: presidential daily briefing, the same one that Joe Biden would

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Speaker 3: receive in the Oval Office.

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Speaker 1: Could he be making stuff up?

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Speaker 6: Maybe?

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Speaker 1: I don't think so.

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Speaker 4: He's bullshitting.

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Speaker 3: I don't on this one. I mean he's been specific

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Speaker 3: about a couple of things. So recall the Ukraine casualty numbers.

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Speaker 3: The Ukrainians freaked out about that, by the way, because

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Speaker 3: he was like a million people have died. Meanwhile, Zelenski's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: actually it's just seventy five thousand people have been killed.

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Speaker 3: It's like maybe at a zero and it's somewhere near

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Speaker 3: the accurate numbers.

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Speaker 1: So he's talked about that.

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Speaker 3: He's talked previously about some previous military things and others.

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Speaker 1: So I actually think this one might be.

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Speaker 2: Then if he knows the answer and he's just not

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Speaker 2: telling us because he got an intelligence briefing, then he's no.

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Speaker 3: He's not the president yet, so you know, maybe he

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Speaker 3: doesn't have any folks, but I know.

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Speaker 2: He really holds to those rules and norms of the

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Speaker 2: presidential transitions are coming.

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Speaker 3: No idea, all right, All I'm saying is what I

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Speaker 3: will say. I will take it seriously because he is

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Speaker 3: the incoming pressure.

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Speaker 2: He is very skilled at like jumping on a public sentiment,

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Speaker 2: and that's what I see in this. I kind of

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Speaker 2: doubt that he got any special information in his briefing.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, if he did, then okay, come out

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Speaker 2: with it, like tell us what's going on. I think

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Speaker 2: he's just like sees this as a moment, sees this

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Speaker 2: is a thing that's going on, and as he had,

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Speaker 2: is very skilled at doing sort of jumps on it, positions,

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Speaker 2: positions himself in an advantageous way.

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Speaker 4: That's all I see going on here.

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Speaker 3: Look, it definitely could be true in fact, I kind

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Speaker 3: of hope that's true, because then he can get into

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Speaker 3: office and he can tell us what's actually happening with it.

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Speaker 3: But regardless, what we do know is that it in

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Speaker 3: New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: People there are just fed up.

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Speaker 3: The governor has fed up the state and local officials

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Speaker 3: in terms of all the lies that are being propagated

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Speaker 3: by the federal government. Just yesterday we got another update

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Speaker 3: on the lies from the White House from the Department

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Speaker 3: of Homeland Security. The Department of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro

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Speaker 3: Mayorcis has said those absolutely nothing to worry about.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry.

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Speaker 3: And actually Chris Christy, the former New Jersey governor, so

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Speaker 3: clearly somebody at least with some authority, spoke out against this.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. You're a New Jersey resident.

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Speaker 3: Have you seen any drouns?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, two mornings ago over my house at six fifteen

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Speaker 7: in the morning, saw them myself, so did my wife,

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Speaker 7: and so yeah, they're there. And I've been traveling around

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Speaker 7: New Jersey as I normally do all week, and I

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Speaker 7: can't tell you the number of people have called it

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Speaker 7: to me concerned about it, and.

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Speaker 1: That is this a mass hysteria of some sort well.

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Speaker 7: Here's why, George, because of answers like the secretary just gave,

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Speaker 7: they're not answering the questions.

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Speaker 5: Well, he said that they're monitoring it, they haven't seen

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Speaker 5: any unusual activity, and they need more authority.

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Speaker 7: Let me say something. I agree that they need more authority,

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Speaker 7: but to not say that this is not that, to

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Speaker 7: say this is not unusual activity, it's just wrong. I

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Speaker 7: lived in New Jersey my whole life. This is the

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Speaker 7: first time that I've noticed drones over my house. And

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Speaker 7: I was in a restaurant in Mammoth County on Friday night,

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Speaker 7: had people at the bar coming up to me and saying,

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Speaker 7: Governor Murphy won't tell me anything. The President won't tell

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Speaker 7: me anything. Do you know, Like, well, I don't know,

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Speaker 7: but I will tell you this. I think this is

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Speaker 7: what happens in our society now, George, When because we

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Speaker 7: were used to having things so rapidly, if you don't

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Speaker 7: fill that vacuum, then all the conspiracy theories get filled

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Speaker 7: in there. So you've got people at Congressman Jeff Vanrew

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Speaker 7: saying there's an Iranian mothership off the coast of New Jersey.

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Speaker 8: Absolutely not true.

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Speaker 3: There you go, then's he's actually said it well, which

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Speaker 3: is that in our current environment where you have videos

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Speaker 3: going around, where you have multiple news reports. We're going

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Speaker 3: to talk to Rich just here in a little bit.

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Speaker 3: He himself witnessed many of the drones. By the way,

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Speaker 3: the drone situation has now gone across the entire country. Actually,

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Speaker 3: even Global Germany is now reporting drone problems. We were

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Speaker 3: talked about Wright Patterson Air Force Base, which was just

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Speaker 3: closed yesterday. The audio of that confirms their own freak

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Speaker 3: out for what's happening. There have been multiple other incidents

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Speaker 3: across the entire East Coast. And yet despite this, the

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Speaker 3: NSC spokesperson John Kirby, let's put this up there on

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Speaker 3: the screen, he says, and continues to say, Oh, all

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Speaker 3: of these just don't worry about it. It's commercial drones,

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Speaker 3: it's hobby drones, it's law enforcement drones. It's planes, it's helicopters,

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Speaker 3: it's stars that people have mistook for drones. Now, look,

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Speaker 3: is it true that some people have mistaken these?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely?

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Speaker 3: You know you had what was it, the governor Larry

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Speaker 3: Hogan is that his name? Who mistook the stars for drones?

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Speaker 1: Like, okay, not spending a lot of time.

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Speaker 3: Stargazing, it's planes or its hobbyist drones. But you know,

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Speaker 3: whenever it comes to the hobby the commercial drones and others,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't make any sense for them to be flying

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Speaker 3: at night specifically, because that's not how First of all,

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Speaker 3: they're not allowed to, but also there's some various different

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Speaker 3: ways to enforce that. In terms of the law enforcement drones,

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Speaker 3: well maybe, but you know, if you listen to the

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Speaker 3: law enforcement people themselves, they say, every time our drones

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Speaker 3: get close to one of these so called drones, those

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Speaker 3: drones are able to go away. They don't have any

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Speaker 3: heat signature, they're able to quote unquote go dark. As

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Speaker 3: the governor said, planes, I mean, as I said literally yesterday,

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Speaker 3: it's very easy to say what is a plane and

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Speaker 3: what's not that's up in the sky. Any one of

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Speaker 3: us can open the flight aware or any of these

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Speaker 3: other apps and look up immediately and identify what a

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Speaker 3: plane is. It's tail, it's file, et cetera for like

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Speaker 3: first route, where it's going. So their explanations just continue

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Speaker 3: to not make any sense, and they continue to obfuscate

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Speaker 3: whatever the truth is. But the more that this continues,

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Speaker 3: the more full blown cover up that it continues to look.

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Speaker 2: Like, Yeah, I mean it's they continue to be very

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Speaker 2: evasive in their answers, and obviously the sightings continue and

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Speaker 2: the questions remain. So one thing that I had seen

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Speaker 2: is what New Jersey just like loosened up their policy

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Speaker 2: allowing civilian usage. Yes, that's one sort of innocuous explanation

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Speaker 2: that's been put out there. So I mean, I do

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Speaker 2: think that's part of what's going on. Is some of

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Speaker 2: the things that people are seeing are like commercial air

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Speaker 2: craft and civilian drones, and they just now are paying

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Speaker 2: attention and this drone usage rule has been loosened up, whatever.

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Speaker 2: But there have been enough people with some credibility and

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Speaker 2: knowledge that have seen things that I'm convinced that's not

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Speaker 2: the whole of what's going on. So with that being said,

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Speaker 2: let's speak to one of those people who I consider

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Speaker 2: to be quite credible. Rich mc hugh as an incredible

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Speaker 2: reporter and journalists. As I said before, and you know,

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Speaker 2: it's demonstrate a lot of I would say courage in the.

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Speaker 4: Field of journalism.

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Speaker 2: Has taken on stories even when it was uncomfortable and

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Speaker 2: inconvenient in mainstream press. He's now a reporter for News Nation.

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Speaker 2: He's been on the ground in New Jersey reporting out.

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Speaker 2: He had his own sighting of what dozens of these

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Speaker 2: drones while he was there reporting. He spoke to local

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Speaker 2: law enforcement as well. We played some of this on

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Speaker 2: the show yesterday, So let's go ahead and get to that.

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Speaker 3: Joining us now is investigative correspondent for News Nation, Rich McHugh,

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Speaker 3: highly respected journalist.

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Speaker 1: It's great to see you, sir. Thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 8: Great to see both. Good to be back here with you.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely all right.

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Speaker 3: So, Rich, you did a report that we played on

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Speaker 3: our show yesterday where you were credulous of these drone sidings.

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Speaker 3: You said to yourself that you were skeptical going in.

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Speaker 3: Why don't you just break down a little bit of

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Speaker 3: what you saw and some of the further reporting that

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Speaker 3: you've done since you did that segment.

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Speaker 9: Sure, So I was absolutely skeptical before starting on this,

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Speaker 9: Like I kind of didn't even pay attention to the

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Speaker 9: story because I thought it was just a bunch of

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Speaker 9: wing nuts in New Jersey with drones stirring up something.

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Speaker 9: Then I started looking at it and I talked to

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Speaker 9: I interviewed the sheriff of Ocean County and his drone

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Speaker 9: team and talk to them about what they saw. Talk

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Speaker 9: to the drone operator about what he saw when they

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Speaker 9: put a drone up. You know, he was saying things

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Speaker 9: like this thing that with this drone that we encountered

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Speaker 9: was much bigger than ours, and they have like an

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Speaker 9: industrial grade drone and had it didn't have a heat signature.

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Speaker 9: I didn't know what a heat signature was, but apparently

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Speaker 9: that's a thing. So like they can track drones with like,

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Speaker 9: you know, heat, and so he was emphatic that this

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Speaker 9: thing did not have the normal kind of it was

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Speaker 9: not giving off the normal heat. So there's all these things.

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Speaker 9: Then there's all these sightings in the communities. Monmouth County,

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Speaker 9: Ocean County. Residents I talked to were saying, look, we're

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Speaker 9: seeing these things.

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Speaker 8: Overhead, like no doubt about it.

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Speaker 9: One resident told me he looked up and he saw

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Speaker 9: something like eighty to one hundred feet above his house.

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Speaker 9: He said it was so close, he said, I screamed

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Speaker 9: at it. Get the heck out of here. There's mayors

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Speaker 9: all throughout the state that are saying, look, pay attention

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Speaker 9: to us. They just had a meeting yesterday with the

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Speaker 9: White House saying look enough of the gas lighting. So

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Speaker 9: from my own personal perspective, normally you don't see stuff

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Speaker 9: around here. Last Thursday night, after I'd met with the

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Speaker 9: Ocean County Sheriffs Mike Hamerman, and we got reports that

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Speaker 9: there was all sorts of sightings in Monmouth County.

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Speaker 8: So we raced to Montmouth County. There was sightings in Red.

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Speaker 9: Bank like these look looked like these things were low

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Speaker 9: flying over the over the city and over east by

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Speaker 9: Earl and in Middletown, and so we started seeing this

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Speaker 9: and you know, I was like, I'm used to flight patterns.

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Speaker 9: I'm used to like, I know where this area and

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Speaker 9: I know what's what and what normally flies over had

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Speaker 9: these looked like a mix between helicopters and something else

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Speaker 9: because they were flying so low. And so we started

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Speaker 9: filming them, you know, to be honest, uh, I've kicked

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Speaker 9: the tires on our reporting. And I've asked CIA former

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Speaker 9: CIA drone specialist. I've asked a CEO of a drone company,

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Speaker 9: currently respected person. I've asked an aviation expert of forty

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Speaker 9: three years military. You flew in the military and it

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Speaker 9: was a commercial pilot.

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Speaker 8: I asked all of them.

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Speaker 9: Formercia drone specialists said, I think they're drones. The drone

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Speaker 9: CEO said, they're not drones. You're filming planes. I think

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Speaker 9: those are planes. And the aviation expert, the pilot of

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Speaker 9: forty three years, is I think they're drones. So the

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Speaker 9: bottom line is we don't know. Reporting this is like

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Speaker 9: we really don't know, and reporting this is the experience

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Speaker 9: I equate to is like reporting in a funhouse. It's

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Speaker 9: like you look over here and there's a little bit

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Speaker 9: of truth here and a little bit of truth there,

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Speaker 9: but like you're trying to make sense of it all.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 9: I think when you boil it down, I think there's

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Speaker 9: room for both. I think there's a lot of stuff

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Speaker 9: actually happening. I think there's real drone activity happening in

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Speaker 9: New Jersey and these other states, as evidenced by the

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Speaker 9: reports you're getting out of these military installations. There's incredible

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Speaker 9: you know, people on these bases at Earl here nearby,

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Speaker 9: and pickets and you're saying, we are seeing these and

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Speaker 9: so that is the real issue, and the fact that

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Speaker 9: the federal government up until you know, three a couple

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Speaker 9: of days ago, was saying, you know, there's really no

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Speaker 9: credible you know, incredible instances of drones flying over these airspaces.

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Speaker 8: Well, now they're kind of they're kind of backpedaling on.

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Speaker 9: That and saying, well, there, there, there are, but you

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Speaker 9: know they're they're not They're not really something we're concerned about.

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Speaker 8: And that doesn't make sense to me as a reporter.

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Speaker 9: It's like, if you get anywhere near these military installations,

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Speaker 9: you can't you know.

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Speaker 8: The most sensitive thing.

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Speaker 9: Ever, So there's there's a disconnect on a on a

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Speaker 9: from the from the messaging that is coming from the

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Speaker 9: federal level, and that's what's alarming.

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Speaker 4: Can you tell me a.

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Speaker 2: Little bit more about how local law enforcement is thinking

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Speaker 2: about this, like are they fearful, are they nervous, are

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Speaker 2: they like what's the energy? And do they have any

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Speaker 2: theories about what is going on? Do they have any

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Speaker 2: advice for residents about how to think about what is happening.

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Speaker 9: I talked to Sean Golden. He's the mayor or the sorry,

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Speaker 9: the sheriff of Monmouth County. Yesterday I went in. He

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Speaker 9: is the one who's kind of like, I don't want

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Speaker 9: to say like I've been at the forefront of this,

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Speaker 9: but he has since the end of November and now

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Speaker 9: he has a heat map in the kind of like

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Speaker 9: the brain room inside of his sheriff's office and the

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Speaker 9: thousands of sightings since December second, and it's pretty wild

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Speaker 9: to see it. So he's tracking them, he's logging everything,

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Speaker 9: he's directing everybody to the federal government. He is actually

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Speaker 9: calling for laws to be enacted, which I believe is smart.

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Speaker 9: He says, Look, with planes, you have the FAA, and

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Speaker 9: we can see on these open sourced websites you can

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Speaker 9: track them, you know, like on flight Aware or whatever,

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Speaker 9: you can see every plane that's going there. With drones,

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Speaker 9: we don't have that, and there should be a requirement

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Speaker 9: that you can through GPS track at least where the

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Speaker 9: controller of the drone is so we can weed out,

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Speaker 9: you know, bad actors, and then trying to figure out

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Speaker 9: what's going on, because right now it's just an unregulated

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Speaker 9: wild West. The sheriff of Ocean County I talked to,

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Speaker 9: and he has the drone team. They're actively looking for

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Speaker 9: this stuff. This is the sheriff who told me this

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Speaker 9: story about a police officer in their district was on

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Speaker 9: the beach and called nine to one one, which is

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Speaker 9: something remarkable in itself.

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Speaker 8: A police officer calling nine on one, but you know,

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Speaker 8: seeing fifty of these things come off the ocean. And

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Speaker 8: I heard that.

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Speaker 9: And I was like, come on, like fifty of these

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Speaker 9: things come off the ocean and he's she's a sworn officer.

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Speaker 9: They put out the drone to go look for this.

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Speaker 9: They called the FBI, They called the Coastguard. They say,

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Speaker 9: the Coastguard put out their boat and they reported back

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Speaker 9: that thirteen of these things followed their boat in. So

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Speaker 9: I can't imagine a sheriff and coastguard are making that

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Speaker 9: kind of claim up. It's so how are they going

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Speaker 9: about it? I think they're just saying be vigilant, you know,

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Speaker 9: try not if you see one of these things, don't

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Speaker 9: necessarily call nine to one one. If you see something

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Speaker 9: and you're convinced of it, then then you know, take action.

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Speaker 8: Here's where you can call wow.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, Rich, last question for you is just in

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Speaker 3: terms of what does your gut feeling think in terms

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Speaker 3: of all of the theories that are out there. Of course,

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Speaker 3: so we were talking a little bit before, there's UFO

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Speaker 3: theories that.

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Speaker 1: Are around this. There's a viral quote unquote nuclear theory.

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Speaker 3: In terms of reporting at least or there's just what

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Speaker 3: you said, is that a lot of these is they

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Speaker 3: loosened up some of their drone regulations and people are

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Speaker 3: just having some fun having you know, you said, kick

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Speaker 3: the tires of those What do you think.

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Speaker 9: I think it's a combination. I think it's complicated. I

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Speaker 9: think it's a combination of things. I think Number one,

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Speaker 9: there is something going on here with drones, no doubt

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Speaker 9: about it.

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Speaker 8: People are seeing it. Mayors are seeing it, like.

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Speaker 9: The sheriff's officers seeing that, they're they're you know, military installations,

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Speaker 9: they're seeing and I think in talking to Sean Golden

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Speaker 9: that the sheriff, He's like, look, I believe a lot

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Speaker 9: of these sightings probably are planes that were people are

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Speaker 9: now staring up and looking at the sky and maybe mischaracterizing.

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Speaker 8: So there's some of that going on.

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Speaker 9: I think that the narrative coming out of the government

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Speaker 9: is helping fuel that because it's it's people don't have answers.

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Speaker 9: If I had to guess after talking to these to

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Speaker 9: these sheriffs and seeing the messaging coming out of the

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Speaker 9: White House and federal officials, I think I think they

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Speaker 9: know far more than they're letting on. I think you know,

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Speaker 9: if I'm going to be a betting person, the government.

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Speaker 8: Knows exactly what this is.

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Speaker 9: These are our own you know, these are not foreign

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Speaker 9: bad actors, because I truly believe that if they were

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Speaker 9: foreign bad actors, we'd be we'd be stopping it.

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Speaker 8: Instead, the messaging is like.

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Speaker 9: Uh, we we acknowledge that this is happening, but it's

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Speaker 9: not a harm to you people. Well, it's like that

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Speaker 9: that's a irresponsible statement to put out unless you know

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Speaker 9: something more correct.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, very true.

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Speaker 2: Well, Rich, it's always great to see You're like, you're

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Speaker 2: like the forest Gump of reporting. You always get on

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Speaker 2: these incredible.

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Speaker 1: Stories and story historical.

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Speaker 2: Moments, et cetera. So we're really grateful for your time

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00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:22,960
Speaker 2: this morning.

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00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 8: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Good to see both.

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00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, same to you.

443
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,399
Speaker 2: So we are fortunate to be joined this morning by

444
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 2: Congress and Rocanna here in the studio. Always great to

445
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 2: see you in personal coming in. Lots of interesting Democratic

446
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 2: Party news going on that we wanted to pick your

447
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 2: brains on. So, guys, if you could put B four

448
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,000
Speaker 2: up on the screen here, we'll start with this. Alexandria

449
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,919
Speaker 2: Cossio cort has has been trying to become ranking member

450
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 2: on the House Oversight Committee, which is, you know, a

451
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 2: significant role and uh one that she seemingly, based on

452
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 2: her past work, would be relatively well suited for reporting.

453
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 2: Is that Nancy Pelosi decided she would rather have Jerry Connelly,

454
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,440
Speaker 2: who was reallyatively aged and also suffering from cancer, in

455
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 2: that position. Yesterday in the Steering Committee, he was able

456
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 2: to win that vote.

457
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 4: Now, typically minor steam. You can correct me if I'm wrong.

458
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,879
Speaker 2: Is usually the way the Steering committee votes is the

459
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 2: way that the whole caucus votes. So this is likely

460
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,160
Speaker 2: a defeat for AOC.

461
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 4: Do you think that she still has a chance to

462
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:21,159
Speaker 4: get this position?

463
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 2: What do you make of this sort of backroom dealing

464
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 2: to block one of the young rising members of Congress

465
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 2: for an older, more establishment figure.

466
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 6: Well, I don't agree with that.

467
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 10: Right after this, I'm going to vote in the House Caucus.

468
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,360
Speaker 10: I'll be voting for AOC for a couple of reasons. One,

469
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 10: she was the vice chair, She's done the work, she

470
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 10: comes very well prepared to the whole committee. In the

471
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 10: minority is about getting out in the media and being

472
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 10: an effective communicator.

473
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 4: That's true.

474
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 10: We don't have that many effective communicators, right now in

475
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 10: Congress in these leadership positions, but she's going to be

476
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 10: an underdog. I don't understand, you know why the Steering

477
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 10: and Policy committees, right commendation has so much wey And

478
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 10: then someone explained it to me. Everyone wants to get

479
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 10: on their committees, and the Steering and Policy Committee basically

480
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 10: determines what committees you go on.

481
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 2: So if you go against them, you mayby screwing yourself

482
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:14,919
Speaker 2: in your committee position.

483
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 10: And one of the biggest complaints I heard about AOC

484
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 10: secondhand was that she had endorsed in primary challenges. You know,

485
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 10: God forbid you endorse against an incumbent in our party,

486
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 10: And I've said, you know, we should have competition. Just

487
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 10: because you're an incumbent doesn't mean that you're guaranteed that seat.

488
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 10: But this is where you're seeing that those who are

489
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 10: willing to question the system shake things up. That that

490
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 10: doesn't go well when you want to try to be

491
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 10: in leadership in the.

492
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that up, because there was actually

493
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 2: reporting that, as part of her attempt to become ranking

494
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 2: Member of House Oversight, she was willing to agree not

495
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 2: to back primary challengers against incumbent Democrats. Which I think

496
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 2: is you know, I mean, I think it's extraordinary to

497
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 2: begin with, because, as you point out, it's important to

498
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 2: have that democratic choice. I think it's been part of

499
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 2: her brand. Obviously, she came in challenging a long time

500
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 2: in charge of Democratic and come and Joe Crowley. You

501
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 2: also came in in a Democratic primary challenge, and so

502
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 2: I thought it was extraordinary that she was willing to

503
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: give that up.

504
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 4: But I also thought it was extraordinary that she was

505
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 4: willing to.

506
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 2: Give that up, and they still were like, not good enough,

507
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: we still want our guy, Jerry Connolly.

508
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 10: Yeah, I don't think we should give that. I mean,

509
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 10: let's say someone was challenging member of Congress on the

510
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 10: Iraq War.

511
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 6: That's how I started. I lost that race.

512
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 10: But wouldn't you want to have incumbent's challenged if they

513
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 10: voted for the Iraq War? Yes, of course, yeah, yeah.

514
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 10: And this is where the lesson for progressives is, we're

515
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 10: not going to build power just by making compromises. We've

516
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 10: got to get more of our folks elected. Now, the

517
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,199
Speaker 10: fact that she got to twenty seven is pretty remarkable,

518
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 10: but we'll see what happens in the house.

519
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 8: Clawkus.

520
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 3: So the reason you're here is in this context feature

521
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 3: the Democratic Party? What is this all about? So we

522
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,719
Speaker 3: have a hilarious element here. Can we put what does

523
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 3: it be?

524
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 8: One?

525
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: Please? Up on the screen?

526
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 3: From the Atlantic, they write, maybe Democrats didn't do so

527
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 3: badly after all. The party's debate about reinventing itself after

528
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 3: the election has gotten more complicated. They talk about some

529
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 3: of these retcon positions and others. You've been a part

530
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 3: of this conversation, so we're curious for your reaction to that,

531
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 3: and whether is this higher colleagues feel and generally about

532
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 3: this theory of change and where things go from here

533
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 3: under a second Trump administration?

534
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: What do you make of an argument like this?

535
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 10: I think we have to make a distinction between could

536
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 10: we have won this election by a couple points or

537
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 10: can we win back twenty six or twenty eight? Of

538
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 10: course we can versus a long term problem for the

539
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 10: Democratic Party. Let me talk about that long term problem.

540
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 10: We've been losing working class votes, White working class of votes,

541
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 10: African American working class votes, Latino working class votes. You've

542
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 10: gone on Ohio from President Obama carrying it by five points, yes,

543
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 10: carrying it by three points, losing it by eight points,

544
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 10: losing it by eleven points. Anyone looking at the data

545
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 10: has to say, Okay, even if we can win in

546
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 10: twenty twenty six, because Trump does something really dumb. This

547
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 10: is not what the Democratic Party coalition, and we've got to,

548
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 10: in my view, get back to the FDR coalition on

549
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 10: economic populism, economic liberalism, whatever you want to call it.

550
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 10: I call it a new Economic Deal, which says we're

551
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 10: going to raise Americans wages. We're going to guarantee people

552
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 10: healthcare when they're really upset that healthcare is being denied.

553
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 10: We're going to bring business leaders, labor leaders altogether to

554
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 10: industrialize America and left out places and be the party

555
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 10: of economic renewal. It seems that we have the elements

556
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 10: in our different parts of our party, but we've got

557
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 10: to be bold with standing up for these policies.

558
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: Just to follow up on that we can put I

559
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 2: believe it's B one B. This New York Times tearsheet

560
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 2: up on the screen, which has some of the specific quotes.

561
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 2: Here is the New York Times version of the same sentiment.

562
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: Democrats argue that the twenty twenty four election actually had

563
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: its bright spots and a quote a little bit, they

564
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: say to hear's some party leaders in their allies talk

565
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 2: Democrats had plenty of November victories to be proud of.

566
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: Jamie Harrison, chaired the DNC, wrote a memo to party

567
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 2: members last week pointing to down ballot triumphs, declared Democrats

568
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 2: beat back global headwinds that could have turned this squeaker

569
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 2: into a landslide. Representative Hakeem Jeffries, the House Democratic Leader,

570
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: wrote in a statement recently that his caucus had quote defied

571
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 2: political gravity. So when you're in these internal House Democratic

572
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: Caucus meetings, is this the sentiment you're getting or is

573
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 2: there a sense of we have to do some significant

574
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 2: reforms and changes?

575
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 4: Is it divided? What does that breakdown look like?

576
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 10: It's not that, I mean, this is pr I understand.

577
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 10: You know, if they're leading and you have a bad result,

578
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 10: you're obviously going to look for the bright spots. But

579
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 10: the reality is people know that we've got to have

580
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 10: a much stronger economic message, that we've got a channel

581
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 10: anger of people. That doesn't mean, okay, let's just invent villains,

582
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 10: you know, in a caricature.

583
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 6: Way, it means why are people upset? You know?

584
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 10: Why are they upset that jobs have gone off shore?

585
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 10: Why are they upset that corporate greed and insurance companies

586
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 10: are denying insurance claims? Why are they upset that billionaires

587
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 10: are determining a political elections and speak honestly about it,

588
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 10: Like you could speak honestly about it in a suit.

589
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 10: You can speak honestly about it in a hoodie. You

590
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 10: can speak honestly about it in eloquent language or cursing.

591
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 10: That's not the point. It's not stylistic, it's substantive. Are

592
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 10: you willing to speak truth about the condition most people

593
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 10: find them?

594
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 3: So you've talked about pack there's one of the reasons

595
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 3: you want to come on here to talk about not

596
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: taking PAC money. In others, you're trying to project a

597
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 3: new vision of what that party could look like. So

598
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 3: what is that in your view?

599
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 10: Well, the DNC should make some very basic commitments. No

600
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 10: super pac money in democratic primaries. If there is a

601
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 10: super pact clearly affiliated with a candidate, the DNC and

602
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 10: elected official leaders should endorse against the candidate affiliated with

603
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 10: a super PAC. Let's not take corporate p money in

604
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 10: the DNC. That's just getting back to what we had

605
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 10: in two thousand and eight under Obama when he ran

606
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 10: saying I'm not going to take pack money or a

607
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 10: lobbyst money. Let's get behind the main initiative that passed

608
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 10: in main seventy percent regulating the amount people.

609
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 6: Can give to super pack.

610
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 10: So you couldn't get Elon Musk or Bill Gates giving

611
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 10: fifty million dollars to a super pack.

612
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 6: You could only give thirty three thirty three hundred dollars.

613
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 6: That passed, but seventy percent of the vote.

614
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 10: Why isn't the Democratic Party saying we're going to have

615
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 10: a fifty state strategy. We're going to run the main

616
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 10: ballot initiative in every state. You know, we're going to

617
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 10: answer that.

618
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: Question, Well, they make a lot of done, they have a.

619
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 4: Lot of people.

620
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 3: There's a lot of super pac money on the Democratics

621
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 3: side because more Yeah, yeah, that's right.

622
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 8: A lot.

623
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 2: And as you know, Congressman, you know a lot of

624
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: what the party selects for at this juncture is not

625
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: necessarily political skill or aptitude or a vision.

626
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 4: It's who can raise the dollars.

627
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 2: That has become an important, maybe the central litmus test

628
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 2: for aspiring Democratic candidates. So for people who've come up

629
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: in that system, that's their primary skill. Are they going

630
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 2: to be willing to go in this direction?

631
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 6: Well, if they want to win, they will.

632
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 10: And it's not just a matter of winning, it's a

633
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 10: matter of can we actually govern right? Seventy percent of

634
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 10: people in this country one fundamental economic transformation. Only twenty

635
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 10: percent trust the federal government to do that. Why is

636
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 10: that Because they see politicians spending most of their time

637
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 10: raising money, They see these elections being dominated by super PACs,

638
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 10: and they don't think that people in the government in

639
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 10: Congress have a vision looking out for them. So if

640
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 10: our party doesn't reform these basic things, we're never going

641
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 10: to earn the trust of the American people to actually

642
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 10: get our agenda through. And it's you're absolutely right, though,

643
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 10: But the first question when someone's running for Congress that

644
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 10: people ask is how much can they raise?

645
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 4: Yeah?

646
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 2: I know, I run for Congress. Those the first question

647
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: I got.

648
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: Got worse since then, yeah, absolutely.

649
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 10: And now it's how much can you raise? And who

650
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 10: are your key a super pac allies? Not what is

651
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 10: your platform? Are you for increasing the minimum wage? Where

652
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 10: do you stand on medicare? What do you think are

653
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 10: the big issues?

654
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: Now?

655
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 10: I mean those and those are the issues that matter

656
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 10: to voters. But we're just selecting a terrible criteria in

657
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 10: what it takes to get to selective office.

658
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, which means that you're going to end up primarily

659
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 2: with people who come from wealth or connected to wealth,

660
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: and it creates very little class diversity.

661
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 4: In the Congress.

662
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

663
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 3: What is the democratic theory that you're hearing about how

664
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 3: to act under the Trump administration? So the first time around,

665
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 3: the theory was Trump is an illegitimate president, We're just

666
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 3: going to treat him as like resistance, et cetera. Kind

667
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 3: of worked twenty twenty. This time around, it's different. Popular

668
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 3: about mandate. This is just general exhaustion with a lot

669
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 3: of this. So what are the fights inside? Like, what

670
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 3: are the fights that you're going to pick with Donald

671
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 3: Trump and the incoming administration to position yourself, not you yourself,

672
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 3: but the party for twenty six and for twenty eight.

673
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 6: Different schools of thoughts.

674
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 10: One is we've got to revitalize the resistance. There are

675
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 10: some people who say, look, we've got to resist more,

676
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 10: we've got to resist stronger. And the other school of

677
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 10: thought is we got to focus more on what we

678
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 10: need to do. How the Democrats are going to govern

679
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 10: what we are going to do on economic issues, on

680
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 10: different issues around the country. I'm in the second camp.

681
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 10: That doesn't mean you don't push back. I mean Trump

682
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 10: is invariably going to betray certain promises. I think the

683
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 10: time to push back is with specifics. Why aren't you

684
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 10: raising the minimum wage? Why are you giving corporate tax

685
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 10: cuts to have more offshoring of jobs when they have

686
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 10: the tax bill?

687
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 6: Are you really going to give these tax cuts to

688
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 6: the very very wealthy.

689
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 10: But if we just say blanket resistance, we're not going

690
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 10: to connect with people on actual things that affect their lives.

691
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: Congressman, you were one of the first, I think politicians

692
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: to of course condemn murder of Brian Thompson healthcare CEO,

693
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: but also say, you know, there's a reason why people

694
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 2: are reacting the way they are and why they are

695
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 2: so disgusted with the health care if you can call it.

696
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 4: That system that we have.

697
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: Obviously, we don't have the majorities for Medicare for all

698
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 2: though what you and I would both like to see

699
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 2: as the system in this country. But are there areas

700
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: where you think that we could bite off some chunk

701
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: of improvement in the healthcare system that would make it

702
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 2: less cruel, fewer bankruptcies, and less deadly.

703
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 10: Well, you can have two different thoughts simultaneously. Murder is

704
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 10: unconditionally wrong and the healthcare system is irretrievably broken. Yeah,

705
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 10: and those are both what we're seeing happening. I'll just

706
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 10: give you one statistic. If you have cancer, and many

707
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 10: people know someone who's had cancer, the average, forty two

708
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 10: percent of cancer patients within two years have lost their

709
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 10: entire life savings. And so many people have denial after denial,

710
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 10: and you know what they do. Many times they just

711
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 10: don't take the medicine or they don't get the procedure.

712
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 6: One of the simple things we can do.

713
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 10: Is to say, if a doctor prescribes a medicine and

714
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 10: if Medicare would cover it, then the insurance private insurance

715
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 10: company should cover it. But just to the front page

716
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 10: today of the New York Times is the corruption of

717
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 10: the system. If you look at it, it says that

718
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 10: private insurance companies colluded with PBMs to basically get Americans

719
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 10: addicted to OxyContin, and they were paying PBMs to say,

720
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 10: fill more of the oxy contin prescriptions.

721
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 6: It is a corrupt system.

722
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 10: And all you have to do is look at the

723
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 10: front page of the New York Times. Medicare for all

724
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 10: is the answer. I'm tired of people saying it's not

725
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 10: politically possible. If there is ever a moment that we

726
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 10: should be pushing that, it is right now.

727
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 3: But how do you square that with what you just said?

728
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 3: Only twenty percent of people say the federal government can

729
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 3: solve their problems.

730
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: How are you going to convince them that?

731
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 10: Well, Medicare is one of Medicare is one of the

732
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 10: places where people do like, right, I mean, and so.

733
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 3: They like when they pay their bills, but they don't

734
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 3: like when being told what to do rational care, et cetera.

735
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 10: Right, wellicare and Medicare doesn't cover ration the care I mean,

736
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 10: I think when it look, there's certain things. When it

737
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 10: comes to job creation, creating high paying jobs, I do

738
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 10: think you need to have a whole of society approach.

739
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 10: You need to get business leaders, you need to get

740
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 10: technology leaders, you need labor. One of the great things

741
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 10: about FDR is he was basically a conductor. He had

742
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 10: all the talent, and the politician was just saying, Okay,

743
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:26,439
Speaker 10: I'm going.

744
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 6: To mobilize that.

745
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 10: But when it comes to Medicare for all, for public health,

746
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 10: for people's healthcare. I think people realize that shouldn't have

747
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 10: a for profit motive, that having the Medicare pay for

748
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 10: the coverage makes sense. And then you can have your

749
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 10: private doctor, you could have your private nurses, you can

750
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 10: have your private hospitals. It's important to let people know

751
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,919
Speaker 10: that those are going to be private. Many people don't

752
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 10: even know Medicare is a federal program, and they'll say, yeah,

753
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 10: I like Medicare, but I don't like the federal government

754
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 10: at the same time.

755
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

756
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 2: No, that's a great point. Well, Congress, and we always

757
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 2: appreciate your time.

758
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 4: There's so much.

759
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: To see.

760
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 3: Yes, we have an update for you on the CNN situation.

761
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 3: They are now admitting that their segment, at least in part,

762
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 3: was a complete lie that we showed all of you

763
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 3: on Thursday, where you had this miraculous freeing of a

764
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 3: prisoner who had allegedly been in the cell for months

765
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 3: on end, and even though he'd been there for months

766
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 3: and there was no waste in the cell and his

767
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 3: nails are perfectly manicured, and he actually looked fine, and

768
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 3: he wasn't pale or didn't show signs of acute malnutrition

769
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,479
Speaker 3: or of hunger, or of lacking water for several days. Well,

770
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 3: it just turns out that at the very least the

771
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 3: name that he gave them, it is totally wrong. Let's

772
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 3: put this up there on the screen. According to CNN themselves,

773
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 3: they tracked down some of the people who knew him,

774
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 3: and they say a man who was filmed by CNN

775
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 3: note the passive language being released ry rebels from a

776
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 3: Damascus Gel was a former intelligence officer with the deposed

777
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 3: Syrian regime, according to local residents, not an ordinary citizen

778
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 3: who had been imprisoned as he had claimed. CNN in

779
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 3: actually found the man while pursuing leads in a video report,

780
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 3: Clarissa Ward and her team, accompanied by rebel guard, came

781
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 3: across the cell in Damascus that was padlocked. The guard

782
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 3: blew off the lock and the man was found alone

783
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 3: inside the cell. When he emerged, he appeared bewildered. Questioned

784
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 3: by the rebel fighter who freed him, he identisified himself

785
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 3: as adr Adel Gurbal from the central Syrian city of Homes.

786
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: He claimed he'd been kept in the cell for three months.

787
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 3: However, his real identity is said to be a lieutenant

788
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 3: in the Assad regime Air Force Intelligence Directorate. Salama Mohammed Salama,

789
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 3: a resident of Baiata neighborhood and homes, gave scene and

790
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 3: a photograph said to be of the same man while

791
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 3: he was on duty in what appears to be a

792
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 3: government office. Facial recognition then matched him to that role,

793
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 3: and it appears that he was actually in prison as

794
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 3: of a month ago because he had been extorting and

795
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 3: shaking people down for quote, profit sharing from extorted funds

796
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 3: with a higher ranking officer. At the very least, the

797
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 3: story is bullshit, right, three months in jail, Nope, he

798
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 3: was in prison less than a month ago. They said

799
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 3: he was some heartbroken rebel prisoner. No, it turns out

800
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 3: he was in ASAD intelligence thug who at least had

801
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 3: been had been in prisoned for shaking people down. Maybe

802
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 3: right according to them. And then his current whereabouts completely unknown.

803
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 3: So this raises all kinds of questions, and it's a

804
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 3: total joke and terrible look for CNN because there's broadcasted

805
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 3: stuff without a single They don't check anything, they don't

806
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 3: ask anything, They broadcast it live. Everybody's reacting to a

807
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 3: crystal shre stuff. This is one of most extraordinary moments

808
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 3: in American television that I've ever seen. Normal people are like,

809
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 3: this is a bullshit.

810
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: Okay.

811
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 3: I didn't come out and say it one hundred percent,

812
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 3: because you know, you never know. Ryan and I, but

813
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 3: we were like, well, it looks fake.

814
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 4: You go very diplomatic.

815
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 2: I watched your section, They're very diplomatic.

816
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 4: Possibility.

817
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: Internally, I was just like, yeah.

818
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: Well, just so for people who didn't see your original

819
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: segment and maybe haven't seen this original CNN segment, let's uh,

820
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: let's relive and just in your mind, like, imagine if

821
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: you were. The story they're selling here is that this

822
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 2: man has been in prison for at least three months,

823
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 2: that he's gone days and days without water, I mean,

824
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 2: you can only go a short period of time before

825
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: you die without water, and that he's been hiding under

826
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 2: this blanket the whole time. Yet he's you know, he's

827
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: like his haircut looks pretty fresh, the.

828
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:27,720
Speaker 4: Jacket he's wearing is really clean.

829
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 2: Like, there's still a lot of questions, So let's go

830
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 2: ahead and relive this CNN segment and then I can

831
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 2: tell you a little bit more about what we know.

832
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 4: On the other side. I'm a civilian, he says, I'm

833
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 4: a civilian.

834
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 8: Okay, you're okay, Okay, you're okay.

835
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: Okay, it's water.

836
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 8: It's water.

837
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: After three months in a windowless cell, you can finally

838
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 1: see the sky.

839
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 4: So you know, it went on from there.

840
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 2: But they yeah, and there's a whole emotional scene, etc.

841
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: In any case, let's go and put up on the screen.

842
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 2: CNN was not the outlet that first track down who

843
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 2: this individual actually was. It was this organization which caused itself,

844
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 2: like an Assyrian fact checker, the headline here updated to

845
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 2: CNN fabricate the story of quote freeing Assyrian detaining from

846
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 2: a secret prison.

847
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 4: They are the ones who tracked down.

848
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 2: The actual identity of this individual and talked to local

849
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 2: residents and got the story from them. And according to

850
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 2: local residents, he was imprisoned, as you said, Soccer, less

851
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 2: than a month. It was due to a dispute over

852
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 2: profit sharing from extorted funds with a higher ranking officer.

853
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 2: So it was the ASSAD government itself who had imprisoned

854
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: their own guy, right. And then he also was known

855
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 2: allegedly again according to local residents, as someone who had

856
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 2: murdered and tortured civilians. So not exactly the like heartwarming

857
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 2: tale that CNN wants you to take away from their

858
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 2: original rewarding. But the other thing is, like, so many

859
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: questions still remain, because even now that we know the

860
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 2: apparent identity of this man and the reason that he

861
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 2: was apparently imprisoned, the whole setup is still seems really fake.

862
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 2: You know, the whole idea that he was in prison

863
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 2: for so long they had no food and water, that

864
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 2: they just stumbled upon him and miraculously rescued him, et cetera,

865
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 2: et cetera. It raises a lot of questions, and it's

866
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 2: also just incredible. You know, I don't Cloris's award. She's

867
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 2: a long time foreign correspondent, like she's been in war zones.

868
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 2: This is not someone who is just naively showing up. Certainly,

869
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 2: she's been in a lot of dicey situations with a

870
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: lot of people who want to propagandize you and you know,

871
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: convince you and trick you, etc. So the fact that

872
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 2: this was just accepted at face value is really quite

873
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 2: wild to me.

874
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, she should know better than anybody else. But

875
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 3: Ryan was bringing this up, and I think it's actually

876
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 3: the most important. These journalists, they're not neutral people as

877
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 3: in Clarissa Ward admitted to sounding an email to Ben Rhodes,

878
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 3: who was the National Security deputy under Barack Obama, and

879
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 3: was like, I hope that you're happy with yourself, because

880
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 3: she was upset with him for not bombing the Asad

881
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 3: regime in twenty thirteen. She admitted on the stage to

882
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 3: all of this, she literally said, on this issue, I'm

883
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 3: an activist, and so what happens we.

884
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: All get carried away.

885
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 3: You know, I'm particularly aggravated by this entire situation because

886
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 3: you would think that these al Qaeda guys are the

887
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 3: greatest heroes on Earth, and listen, I'm I'm fine with

888
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 3: value neutral analysis. I'm openly was fine, not fine, but

889
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 3: I said, well, it's preferable to leave Afghanistan and let

890
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 3: the Taliban take over.

891
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: I know the.

892
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 3: Taliban is bad, I know a lot of people will suffer.

893
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 3: I just don't think we should have anything to do

894
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 3: with it. But you basically have two regimes where now

895
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 3: effectively the same. Look at the media treatment of the

896
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 3: way that the US pull out from Afghanistan has happened,

897
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 3: and look at these people. They're like heroes, you know,

898
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 3: and you know, let's check in five six, years from now.

899
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 3: Let's see how it works out for the Alo white Christians,

900
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 3: or for the Druze population, or the Shia or any

901
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 3: of these other religious minorities.

902
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: Let's see.

903
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 3: You know, everybody said, oh, Afghanistan's gonna be a harbor

904
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 3: of terrorism and all this stuff. Why don't they say

905
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,720
Speaker 3: this same stuff about Syria, Like somehow they have decided

906
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 3: that Asad was worse. And look, he's not a good guy,

907
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 3: but you don't have a lot of good options to

908
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 3: choose from here. Yeah, So that's why I'm just infuriated

909
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 3: by people like her and all these other Western journalists

910
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 3: who selectively decide like who the good guy is and

911
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 3: who the bad guy is. And it doesn't even make

912
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 3: any sense. It's internal logic is completely contradictory. It's totally ridiculous.

913
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 5: Yeah.

914
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 2: I think when we had Jeremy Skahill on I I

915
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 2: think he said it well, which is that, of course,

916
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 2: there are very good reasons why many Syrians are celebrating

917
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 2: these developments, and that means something. And you know, I'm

918
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 2: not I'm not Syrian, and like they deserve to get

919
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 2: a chance to run their own country and to have

920
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 2: a representative government and to shape their own destiny. And

921
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 2: at the same time, while you're holding that thought in

922
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 2: your head, you also have to recognize that the peril

923
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 2: is great based.

924
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 4: On who we know.

925
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 2: The new government is comprised of their track record, and

926
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 2: also what we've learned through the the Arab Spring, what

927
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 2: we learned through our intervention, our disastrous intervention in Libya

928
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 2: and other brutal, catastrophic misadventures. So you know, I hope

929
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 2: that the story turns out differently this time, but jaded

930
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 2: enough to be not too optimistic.

931
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: About that, as you should be.

932
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 3: And also you know, for everybody, Oh, let the Syrians decide.

933
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 3: We decided to be it's different. A long time ago,

934
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 3: Syrians didn't get to play a role in any of this.

935
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 3: Katar Uae, the United States, Iran, Hasbola, Israel, dare I say.

936
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:00,720
Speaker 1: Turkey go on forever?

937
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 3: It's turned into a complete regional proxy. It's like Ukraine.

938
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 3: They themselves, they never had a chance to determine their

939
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 3: own future. From day one, it became a foreign playground,

940
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 3: and they're of course the ones who paid with it

941
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 3: with their lives.

942
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: So I feel terrible for them.

943
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 3: But now at this point, I mean, yeah, I literally

944
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 3: I am looking at a thing right now, a pre recorded

945
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 3: video from the new leader of Syria, al Jalani. When

946
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 3: we build the Islamic Caliphate, Christians will pay the jizia

947
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 3: under Islamic Sharia.

948
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: Okay, if you don't know what that is, it's attacks.

949
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: So that's what isis did too.

950
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 3: By the way, whenever they imprison sex slaves in Syria, this.

951
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: Is what I'm talking about.

952
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 3: And these people act like they're heroes, yes, like they

953
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 3: has he changed his tune? I hope so, you know,

954
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 3: for the people of Syria. But you can't preemptively be

955
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 3: given these people the benefit of the doubt.

956
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: So I don't know.

957
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 3: I just think willful prop willful tools of propaganda are ridiculous.

958
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 3: They did this with Egypt, they did this with Libya,

959
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 3: they're doing it now with Syria.

960
00:44:58,520 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: The track record is bad.

961
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm hopeful that for the people Assyria, I

962
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 3: actually wish for them. They actually got to decide their

963
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:04,919
Speaker 3: own fate.

964
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: But let's not be naive. Let's not be about naive again.

965
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 4: That's exactly right.

966
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: For ten years now that's been going on.

967
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 2: I think in this situation with this CNN report, I mean,

968
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 2: the simplest and most obvious explanation is Clarissa Ward, who

969
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 2: should know better because she is an experienced reporter, has

970
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: been too many war zones, has been in these sorts

971
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 2: of situations that she allowed her ideology to blind her

972
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 2: to the fact that she was being taken for a ride.

973
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 2: Like I think that's I actually think that's the most

974
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 2: charitable explanation of what unfolded her.

975
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: Let's hope that that's the case.

976
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 4: But then you also have to think, you know, it's

977
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 4: not just her because.

978
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: She records this, and then there's a chain of producers

979
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,439
Speaker 2: who edit it and executive producers who okay it, and

980
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 2: you know on air host I believe it was presented

981
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 2: originally with Anderson Cooper, who accepted as credible. When I

982
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 2: mean the vast majority of people when they saw this

983
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: immediately were like, this is bullshit. So somehow it got

984
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,439
Speaker 2: through all of those chains and made it to air

985
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 2: without any major caveats of we may we don't really

986
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 2: know what unfolded here, but we're going to show you

987
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 2: the story. Okay, that's one thing. But it was presented

988
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 2: as if they felt confident that the story they were

989
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 2: being said was the real and accurate truths.

990
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and last thing on this there's often a feeling

991
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: in the US that, oh, I can't believe how bad

992
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 3: things have gotten. No, no, no, no, It's always been this way,

993
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 3: as in this ten to fifteen years ago, this Clarist

994
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 3: Award segment. There's no Internet all right, like there's no

995
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 3: Twitter or anything for people like this is BS. And

996
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 3: I was reminded actually of the Dan Rather. The Dan

997
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 3: Rather incident. Do you remember this. We was fired from

998
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 3: CBS News after they were found manufacturing a story. And

999
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 3: if you think about it, like that was right at

1000
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 3: the beginning.

1001
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 1: Of the blog story about George W. This was about

1002
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: Bush and yeah, excepit his National.

1003
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,399
Speaker 4: Guard Service or whatever it was that. Yeah.

1004
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 3: My point though is that it Dan Rather was a

1005
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 3: household name in this country, right, he was like Walter

1006
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,919
Speaker 3: Cronkite two point zero and all this, and it took

1007
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 3: the blogosphere to be like, hey, this is BS. Now

1008
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 3: rewind to Vietnam. So all of the people who have

1009
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 3: all this nostalgic feeling, I have this kron Kaite book

1010
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 3: behind me, all right, people should go and read it.

1011
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 3: Because the news has always been fake. It's just that

1012
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 3: now you know it's fake and we have this, we

1013
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 3: have this theory about oh.

1014
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 1: Things have gotten worse.

1015
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 3: It's like no, no, no, For the very first time you

1016
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 3: actually have and can see behind the curtain.

1017
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 2: Well Brian Williams, Oh, yeah, like Potter fire while he

1018
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 2: was in a military helicopter rock or something something like that.

1019
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 2: And yeah, it took years for that to ultimately emerge

1020
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 2: that he just completely made that up. And I think

1021
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,280
Speaker 2: there were several other instances of we'll call it fabulousm.

1022
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 1: Of course from him. There's so many of.

1023
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 2: That led to his ultimate to his down, although he

1024
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 2: was resurrected, brought back into NBC with that's.

1025
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, they put him at eleven PM.

1026
00:47:58,239 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's the other thing is that you lie

1027
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 3: was fine, you know, no worries. But I just wanted

1028
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 3: to put that out there because I see way too

1029
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 3: many people thinking how could CNN ever be like this,

1030
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 3: and it's like, well, let's rewind three in the Iraq War.

1031
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 3: How many of these things were you guys seeing out

1032
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 3: there like oh, we've been welcomed as liberators and all that.

1033
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 3: We just didn't have Twitter to be like this is

1034
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 3: bullshit for people in Iraq to be like.

1035
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: No, actually, this is entirely staged by.

1036
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 2: The penantl ecosystem of independent journalists like this.

1037
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 4: I'm Syrian group.

1038
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: This is what Glen Glenn is the og of this.

1039
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 3: He was the first person on the blogosphere with others

1040
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,720
Speaker 3: talking about how anthrax was The anthrax story was fake.

1041
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 3: Iraq was fake. But he was a lone wolf, you

1042
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 3: know at that time. So God blessed Glenn. Shout out

1043
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 3: to him. He set the stage for all of us.

1044
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 3: But anyway, it's just a it's just a reminder. It's

1045
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,479
Speaker 3: like all this nostalgia about things were in the past.

1046
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 3: You just didn't know this is this was half the

1047
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 3: stuff that was coming up.

1048
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a great point.

1049
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 8: Pett