WEBVTT - Ep. 54: Mark Kenyon & Spencer Neuharth 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:07.600 Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of the Hunt Collective. 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:11.280 I'm Ben O'Brien. Today I am joined by Spencer new 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:13.480 Art and Mark Kenyon. Both of them work on the 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:15.560 wire to Hunt brand and then both of them work 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.439 here at the Old Meat Eater Incorporated. Um, we're gonna 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:20.680 talk to you guys about a bunch of really interesting topics, 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:25.560 mostly around white Tail. Um. I say that because mostly 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:28.320 around white Tail. We had a few little diversions into 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:30.440 some other things that you'll be very interested to hear about. 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.720 But I think as far as white Tail conversations go, 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.040 and the conversation about what's really going on in that world, 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:37.479 I think we had some good topics. We had some 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:41.480 real sketchy ones too. UM. So hopefully you've you learned 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.120 a little bit. Hopefully, uh we either make you mad 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:46.120 or make you real happy with some of our opinions 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.320 on some of these uh tougher topics. So, without further ado, 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:56.920 enjoy this episode with parkt Spencer White Tannon. You should 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:00.720 know that millions thirty million, maybe it sounds Spenser six 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.680 million or killed a year. I know that. Okay, all right, 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.640 well that's something that question I asked, But it's that 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:09.880 answer to a question which I want to know what 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:11.640 it really is them now, because thirty million was just 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:13.760 like a number that sounded right. Okay, what do you 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:15.759 what's it? Let's give a ki we already have. That's 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.959 like that's a solid based one spencer. What if six well, 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:21.280 I think it's six million deer. I don't know if 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.640 six million white tales are killed a year. Um, I'm 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.240 gonna go prices right on this and I'll say twenty million. Okay, 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.800 I'll just say one deer. Yeah, I want to say 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:42.880 twenty twenty million, one twenty million. No, I got six million, Mark, 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.720 It's probably not it's going to be an estimated number. 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:48.760 We know there's more white tailed deer in this like 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:53.720 the Atlantic quotes that there are as many as thirty 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.440 million of them roman the country at large. White tail 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.160 or dear, this is speaking to white tail deer. Good. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:04.080 I'm glad you passed the test. You can keep podcasting 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:08.080 about tales. Joined by Mark Kenyon, Wired to Hunt Spencer 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.840 new art of the Meat Eater team. Here. Um, we're 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:14.480 gonna talk about white tail stuff. What do you guys 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:18.400 think about that? It is something that I do on occasion. Yeah, 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.000 You've been known to speak of speak of white tails, 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.919 and every time I do it, I enjoy it. So 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.280 I'm looking forward to this every time. So get ready, everybody. 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:30.720 It's gonna be scintillating. Now. This is the time you 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:32.800 where people who don't give a shit about white tails 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.960 right now, other than you freaks, other than you freaks 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.560 that are out there looking for sheds. There's a lot 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.000 going on this time of year for white tail folks. Yeah, 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:45.040 not just finding sheds, what else scouting, low scouting, going on, 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.160 a lot of prepping. Now was a great time to 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.919 get out there and be haying your stands now, get that, 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:51.680 get that work done now so you're not doing it 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:56.639 like you're stretching in a little bit. Yeah, planning out 0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:01.359 of state hunts when you get your ducks in a 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.280 row for that. If you manage private land and have 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:06.360 stuff you can do like that from the habitat site. 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:08.320 And that was a great time to be doing things 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:12.800 like timber management, hinge cutting. You're getting some so bored 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.960 here for access as well. Yeah, knocking in doors you 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:23.640 are into like content, you talk to a boring caving 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.880 and uh you can get maybe some kyote access that 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.040 maybe leads to something different. Maybe you meet an old 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.320 man who likes to play checkers. You guys play checkers together, 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.400 talking about you asked for this, Ben, you can get 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:38.520 yourself into this mess. It's probably like the deadest time 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.360 of year though for a white tailer. And I always 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:42.920 finally got back to the truth, if you had to 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.000 pick the valley in the white tail seasons the lowest 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.640 EBB point of the year. Yes, So what we're trying 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:50.440 to do with this podcast is bring it back up, 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:52.840 gives people something. Did you hear about that podcast where 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:55.840 they talk about white tails. That's what we're trying to do. 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.600 That's our goal here. But recently, Mark, you've been out 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.480 looking look for sheds and you found what seemed to 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.200 me like a lot of small ones. I wouldn't even 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.400 say a lot. I found a few sheds, of which 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:13.200 they've all been small. It's been a rough because the snow. 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.599 Partly has been because of the snow, partly simply because 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:20.280 of like travel schedule has not allowed me to spend 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:22.920 much time in places where there's the numbers and quality 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:26.520 of deer to actually finds. A lot of shed hunting 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.679 comes down to just the quality of the areas are in. Yeah, 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:32.240 have you You haven't shed on it at all? Have 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.240 you spencer this year? Uh? I was recently back in 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.160 South Dakota, where I'm from and where I do most 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.200 of my deer hunting, this last week, but they had 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.440 like a foot of snow on the ground, so you 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:46.960 would find nothing in that case. Nothing. Yeah, I've I've 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.400 never really consistent. When I had a lease back in Maryland, 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:51.480 I shed on a good bit and I got when 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.760 I was fully into the white tail year right every 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.520 season was doing something. But right, I haven't shed hunting 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.000 in quite some time. You know a lot of people 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.240 well that don't, that aren't into it, kind of dog 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:04.479 it like, oh that seems like a stupid thing. You 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:06.640 can't eat antlers? What are you going on their waste 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.080 your time doing? And I think from my perspective, I 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.560 really it's a love hate thing. Um But I mostly 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.560 love it because I enjoy hiking. Like if you like 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:17.880 to walk a lot, if you like to hike just 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.760 for the sake of being outside and doing that, shed 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:22.440 outing is a great way to do that because it's 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.000 a way to get out there, stretcher legs, hike around, 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:28.239 be outside and then there's also this little treasure hunt 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:30.800 aspect to it, which adds a little bit of fun 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:33.720 and um when you do stumble on one, when you 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.200 do find one, that is a really exciting moment. I saw, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.480 I think the other day where guys were advertising guided 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:42.800 shed hunts. That's pretty crazy. Describe that you think that 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.160 might be, Like it's like an Easter egg hunt. Guarantee 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:47.640 those dudes are putting them out there. They're like, oh, 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.960 you're a little bit warmer, you're hot, you're boiling hot, 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:53.000 you're on fire, You're on fire. There's no way that 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.080 they're just taking them out for a walk. I wonder 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.120 what the actual specifics of it are if it if 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.640 it actually entail a guide or is it just access 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:03.800 like you pay. Now this one was a guided, like 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:05.679 you paid to go to a lodge and a feller 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:09.600 would walk around with you like that. I'll just say, 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.400 that's not my cup of tea. I could see. I 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:14.479 think I could be. I think I could be a 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.560 shed hunting guide if you wanted to learn about shed hunting, 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:19.920 Like if you had found two sheds in your whole 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.440 life and you're like, what am I doing wrong? I 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:24.600 have to dial this in there could be an advantage 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:26.839 to that, like going out with somebody who you know 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.600 you're gonna find sheds with. But otherwise I can't imagine 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:34.320 there's a lot of guys type in the Google shed 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.880 hunting outfitter. But I do know some people who I 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.920 do have friends who really love to shed hunt, who 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:43.200 have said to me, man, it would be cool to 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:45.480 for once in our lives, like get access to the 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:47.360 kind of place where you could find fifty amlers in 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.919 a day, Like you see people on social media having 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:53.240 these days on these big managed properties, and like myself 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:54.680 and all my friends, like, we don't have that kind 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:56.560 of thing. So when we go, it's usually public land 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:58.440 or something we knocked on the doors of. And if 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.800 you're you're lucky even in the best place says to 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.920 find ten antlers between a group of five or something 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.560 like that. So once in your life to go somewhere 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.960 that's just loaded with deer, just brown antlers everywhere. Like, 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:12.320 I don't think i'd pay money to do that, but 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.280 I certainly wouldn't mind, like getting invited to go along 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.120 on something that and just and you would travel like 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:20.760 three states away because you do that. Oh yeah, I've 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.680 travel across the country forget. I hope non hunters are 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:25.800 listening to this and they know how crazy we are, 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.200 because I was thinking, yeah, I do that too. I 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.760 would It's hard to describe why it's that much fun, 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:35.120 but it's just could you like being outsidely? I said, 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.760 there's just something really neat about being outside and then 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.840 searching for something and occasionally finding it and then antlers 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.160 to me, like holding an antler in your hand, It's 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:51.200 just like a really cool artifact of a life, like 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:53.040 seeing something that used to be part of a living 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.040 animal and then is now something you can hold in 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.560 your hand and touch and feel and spin around, and 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:00.840 like there's fascinating objects on her own and to be 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.800 able to find a bunch of those is just well, 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.520 you develop these relationships with those animals, man, and you're 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.680 you know, you're tracking them all year round. It's fun 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:13.640 to find a little You're find literally a little piece 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.200 of them, which brings me to what's your favorite kind 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.360 of shed to find? Like a little little blood on 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.040 the pedicle? Does that get your going? Like? Does that? 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.400 I wouldn't say, like what gets you going? Yeah? I 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:29.480 don't necessarily value like a fresh ee anymore than fresh, freshy, 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.960 but it would be like fresh, its fresh. It would 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.280 be nowhere they're like, oh, look at this one fresh 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.240 just and I mean a fresh antler is nice. Like 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.880 I definitely prefer something that's not been chewed on by 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.600 animals and stuff, just simply because it's pretty. It feels 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.160 good in your hand. It's just a cool thing. But 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.280 like an old chalky shoot up one is just whatever. 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.240 It's not quite as aesthetically pleased. Do you feel though 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:55.000 it would be more exciting because you're like, well, nobody 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.720 found this and I somehow stumbled upon it, the old 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.080 shoot up one. Yeah, I guess that's one way to 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:04.959 look at him. Yeah, you don't seem excited about that. Yeah, 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.680 not too much. Even when I lived within like ten 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.160 miles of where I primarily a white tail hunt, I 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:13.320 just didn't get into shed hunting that much. But I would, um, 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.920 like for the reason of Kevin fever, Like South Dakota 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.960 winners are pretty awful and uh, by the time, like 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.120 marsh rolls around and there's nothing else to do. Sick 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:26.840 of ice fishing, uh, sick of being inside, Like shed 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:28.760 hunting sounds pretty good at that point, so I can 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:30.480 get into it. So you're saying that when you're at 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:34.320 the your most desperate, Yes, you're you can barely think 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.360 about anything else to do. You've read all the books 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:41.040 you're out of. As far as we're like shed hunting 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.559 ranks and what I like to do outside, it's it's 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:45.800 pretty low. And I don't think I would ever drive 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:50.600 what you went from Michigan to western North Dakota. Yeah, 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:54.000 it's got to be like a thousand miles. I wouldn't 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:57.040 do that. I'd go that far to to kill a deer, 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:00.240 but not look for a deer's antlers. Not to be fair, 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.480 that was shed hunting and scouting, Okay, And I hit 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:07.880 Montana Fair in North Kakota and I killed a deer there, 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.280 so that scout and shed paid off. Yeah. My view 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.120 on is always like, this is not going to help 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:14.920 me kill a deer. If I'm out there and I 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.520 find a specific antler or find no ansler's Um, that's 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:20.280 my view. I don't think this is going to help 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.400 me kill a deer. But I did talk to a 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:24.640 body a few weeks ago that kind of changed my 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:29.000 perspective on it. Um. He was looking for elk sheds 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:33.400 in South Dakota. In a unit that it's tough to draw, 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.280 all units of South Dakota tough to draw. Anyway, he 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:38.000 found the piece of public and he got in there 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:42.160 and he found three elk sheds at which are They 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.200 were in obvious places and so to him that meant 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.000 nobody else had been there, like in the last few years, 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.960 because they were old sheds, and so that was really valuable. 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.440 Like that's an obvious um sign that you were one 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:56.080 of the few hunters in there at that time. So 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:58.880 I could see the value to that point, like finding 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:01.760 them on public land and these places that so you're saying, 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:05.280 go and plant sheds and obvious places where you know 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.760 they're no elk. So hunters like this guy I'm going 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:13.240 back there really dispersed the other hunters. So that's some 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.720 value I could see in it. But from the just 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.440 finding an aniler and being excited about it, not so much. Yeah, 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.199 I'm hoping to convinced Mark Kenyon of something. There was 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:28.439 an article in Outside magazine and this article, uh, it's 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.480 called in Memory of Yellowstone Wolf nine to six F. 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.679 You possibly read that, Mark. I lanced that. I did 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.120 not read it, but I know the basic gist, like 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:39.640 the deck here is kind of like she was a 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:43.000 survivor and an alpha, and then she was legally shot 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.360 and killed by a hunter. Yellostone Park's legendary wolf researcher 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:49.200 Rick McIntyre reflects on the life of one of the 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:53.600 park's most famous canines. And this guy waxes about wolf 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.320 to six in a way that I respect like his 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.520 I don't. I would never make fun of his relationship 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:05.400 with the animal. Yeah. Um, and he definitely uh personifies 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:08.400 her in a lot of ways and talks about his 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.360 how he cared for, how he tracked her since she 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.160 was born, things of that nature. And my thought was 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:18.320 not that, not that old and Rick had some unnatural relationship. 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.480 I first thought of you, I thought, well, Mark Kenyon, Well, 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:26.040 Mark Kenyon has names animals and follows them throughout their lives. 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:28.920 He just happens to kill them at the end and 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.600 eat them. Yeah. So I want to convince you to 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:37.040 write an article where you, maybe, like for Frank, would 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:39.319 write this eulogy like this fellow did for a wolf, 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:40.760 but then at the end he would like and I 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.960 shot it and I ate it. Convinced Outside to publish it. 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.920 Next to that, and convince Outside to publish it. What 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.199 are you willing to take that on? It would be 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:54.840 a very interesting pairing, that's for sure. I don't know 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.880 if that's because you would start it like I remember 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.200 when Frank was born like an all series. No, not 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.199 to that, but it is interesting to you bring it up, 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:06.880 because like when I saw that article, I was like, 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:11.480 oh jeez, like some serious anthropomorphization. Um. I didn't say 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.679 that work as I always always stumble over the pronunciation 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.520 of and so thank you for them, You're welcome. Um. 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:19.800 That just goes too far. And you see this a 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.640 lot with the wolf debate. UM, and I will publicly 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:28.320 like I I am not like an anti wolfer like 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.080 I I'm okay with I'm all from management of them. 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:33.120 At the same time, I'm happy they're on the ecosystem. 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:35.400 A lot of players to it, they their native species. 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.080 I'm okay with that. UM. So I'm not someone who 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.880 like vehementally anti wolf, but when I see stuff like this, 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.880 they go so far to the other direction that you know, 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:50.000 Disney fies these animals and makes it seem like they're 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.040 a little happy family of people up there that were 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:57.640 attacked by vicious hunters. And this whole relationship that they 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.319 kind of contrive from watching something in the spoty scope 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.080 or whatever. Um. I kind of rolled my eyes at 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.920 it a little bit. Not that I don't respect the 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.240 fact that they appreciate and respect these animals so much, 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.440 but something like the way it's tis a strange parallel, 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.319 he says. Rick says this, she had a long, exciting 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:17.240 life and overcame great difficulties. Tens of thousands of people 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:20.160 got to see her live that life and were inspired 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.840 by her grit and determination. Her family is carrying on. 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.280 Next April, her adult daughter will likely have a litter 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:31.120 of new pups at the pax stn. In my attempt 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.280 to deal with the death of of a wolf I 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.200 knew so well and admired so greatly, I thought of 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.680 something I could do. WO was shot about a mile 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:41.920 from my cabin. I found the site where she had 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.440 blew out her blood out and collected some of her 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.760 frozen blood. I trudged through the snow to where had 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:50.840 been born and where I had seen her play with 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.680 her pups, and left her remains there. I did it 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.520 for her family, but mostly I did it for her. 0:14:55.640 --> 0:15:00.000 She deserved to come back home. It's good writing. Yeah, 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:08.120 and like I can appreciate appreciation for wildlife and animals 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.480 like them. Yeah that's because I do too. Yeah, I'm 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:12.680 not making light of what this guy feels like. I 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.120 understand what he's going through. But I just think it's 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.560 funny that there's this parallel between particularly white tail hunters, 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:21.680 because you're in close proximity to the animal, right that 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:26.240 that you can no a deer, probably not from what 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.240 it's born, but pretty freaking close you know, and track 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.280 it and find its sheds and and and understand each 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.400 year what age it is. You get pictures of it 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.520 every year. Um. I know a lot of white tail 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.680 ranges where they have little flipbooks of a deer's whole life, 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.840 like every picture of it. As soon as you call 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:49.600 it a ranch, and it wasn't Texas, it's a low fencer. Um. Kid. 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:51.520 But I know what you're saying, you know what I'm saying. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.360 Like there's a relationship they like this guy had a 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:55.800 relationship with the wolf. He just like he took it 0:15:55.880 --> 0:16:00.400 to what I believe is unrealistic level. Right for at 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:02.320 least he didn't write about it. I remember the time 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:07.080 that wolf ate the asshole of a mule deer, although 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.760 that would be a great vignette. Yeah, I remember, you know, 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.480 one time I was I was following the wolf pack 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.080 and she got on the track of a baby of 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.520 a fawn mule deer, and I remember when she ripped 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.920 its throat out. What a wonderful experience. Conveniently leave out 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.880 the part that this is a killing machine, right, I 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:28.440 don't I don't mind his relationship and his admiration of 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.720 the animal, but he takes away almost all the realism there. Yeah, 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.480 and so I think that what's interesting is, like I 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.560 have my gut reaction has like boy, roll my eyes. 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.000 But then to your point, if I do put a 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.840 mirror up to myself and look at what I how 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.000 I engage with with deer, you're right, like, there is 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.520 an interesting kind of relationship that forms when you hunt 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.160 the same deer for multiple years, when I see it 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.920 over and over and over again, I studying, and I 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.000 look at trail camera pictures and I observe it, and 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.800 I have, you know, moments of engagement where I see 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:01.560 this a little close at a close call, or almost 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.520 got a shot at all these different things. Yeah, in 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:06.600 a really weird way. That's hard to explain to someone 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.000 who's not been a part of that you do form 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:12.719 a kind of relationship with that animal, which then becomes 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:14.480 really weird when you talk about the fact that you're 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.159 trying to kill that animal that I so enjoy that, 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:21.520 I so appreciate that. Um, it's a weird thing. And 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:23.439 so I have had situations like there was a bucket 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:25.320 hunted for three years and watched and had a lot 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:30.440 of encounters with um and after successfully killing that buck, 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:34.640 eventually I had like a weird swamp of emotions afterwards, 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:36.720 like sitting back and realizing, Wow, I'm never gonna see 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.400 that dear again. And it's similar, like to this guy 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:44.399 to the point of the deer you encounter, see you 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.000 don't kill, and a lot of those get killed by 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.400 someone else. So like you are dealing with the same 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.640 thing that there's some buck you're aware of, you've known 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:56.080 him for four years, and then a neighbor kills him. 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.680 It's very similar to what this guy is talking about. Yeah, 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.679 so there's there's like the these weird parallels, and I 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.800 feel like this is with all hunters and then non 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.600 hunting lovers of wildlife like that this weird parallel we 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.440 always draw what we both care about the animal. There's 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.199 at some point in the parallel line where we divert, 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:18.240 you know. They go into this like intense, almost unrealistic love, 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.240 and we go into this more pragmatic stance of I'm 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.040 gonna kill it and need it now. We've had this 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.280 caring relationship of this animal for all this time. We 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.600 just take the left fork and they take the right 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.879 for it, and it just we forget that we're traveling 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:35.320 along the same path, you know. Um. Yeah, And I 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:40.320 think it's I guess to to to kind of wrap 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.120 all that up in my own mind, Like I think 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:45.280 it's probably a good lesson for myself to remember not 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:49.399 to go to not to jump to that eye rolling, 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:53.040 um reaction right away when I see something like that, 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:56.119 but instead remember that, you know, we're on the same 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.760 path for a lot of this, and it's probably much 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.520 more helpful to engage someone like that and talking like, hey, 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.800 I've gotten I've had relationships like this, I respect what 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.680 you're saying and have meaningful conversations versus right away. So 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:09.800 then these guys are Yahoo's squirrel. Yeah, it's it's way 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.600 too easy. That's the way too easy round and we're 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.120 you know, we're always in whether we'd like to say 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:16.520 it or not. We like say, oh, we're not in 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:20.359 an echo chamber. Bullshit. We're all in a similar echo chamber. 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:22.600 Whether you're in the White Tail space or just the 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.600 Western hunting space or whatever, you're an echo chamber. And 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.359 you're talking about things that would seem crazy, that us 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:31.439 killing animals that we care about. Is Is it crazy 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.320 to that guy? Is us? Is that dude talking about 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.359 you know, taking bits of blood and burying it? You 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:41.800 know it is us, same kind of same kind of gap. 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.639 Live in a world filled a lot of paradoxes. So 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:46.720 are you willing to write this article? And we'll pitch it. 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:49.879 I know, I know this website. We could put it 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:55.560 on mediate or dot com. I'd consider it loosely, loosely 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.719 consider we'll have you. We'll have you back alone when 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:02.840 you're prepared to break here your article, and then well 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:04.600 then you could write. Then then I scooped up the 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:08.240 remains of the deer, put it in my truck, drove 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.239 the truck to my house, went inside my house, and 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:16.080 cook the deer and ate the deer. What a lovely 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:18.200 And I do see that as a form of show 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:19.840 in my respects, just like he showed what he did 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:21.720 as a farm of his respects. Yeah, I'm about to 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:23.600 have this one. This vegan guy on that was trying 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.480 to argue with me about the morality of our relationship 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.359 with animals and why don't we just treat them like us, Like, well, 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:34.000