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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of the Hunt Collective.

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Speaker 1: I'm Ben O'Brien. Today I am joined by Spencer new

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Speaker 1: Art and Mark Kenyon. Both of them work on the

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Speaker 1: wire to Hunt brand and then both of them work

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Speaker 1: here at the Old Meat Eater Incorporated. Um, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk to you guys about a bunch of really interesting topics,

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Speaker 1: mostly around white Tail. Um. I say that because mostly

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Speaker 1: around white Tail. We had a few little diversions into

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Speaker 1: some other things that you'll be very interested to hear about.

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Speaker 1: But I think as far as white Tail conversations go,

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Speaker 1: and the conversation about what's really going on in that world,

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Speaker 1: I think we had some good topics. We had some

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Speaker 1: real sketchy ones too. UM. So hopefully you've you learned

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Hopefully, uh we either make you mad

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Speaker 1: or make you real happy with some of our opinions

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Speaker 1: on some of these uh tougher topics. So, without further ado,

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Speaker 1: enjoy this episode with parkt Spencer White Tannon. You should

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Speaker 1: know that millions thirty million, maybe it sounds Spenser six

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Speaker 1: million or killed a year. I know that. Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: well that's something that question I asked, But it's that

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Speaker 1: answer to a question which I want to know what

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Speaker 1: it really is them now, because thirty million was just

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Speaker 1: like a number that sounded right. Okay, what do you

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Speaker 1: what's it? Let's give a ki we already have. That's

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Speaker 1: like that's a solid based one spencer. What if six well,

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Speaker 1: I think it's six million deer. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: six million white tales are killed a year. Um, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go prices right on this and I'll say twenty million. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll just say one deer. Yeah, I want to say

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty million, one twenty million. No, I got six million, Mark,

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Speaker 1: It's probably not it's going to be an estimated number.

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Speaker 1: We know there's more white tailed deer in this like

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Speaker 1: the Atlantic quotes that there are as many as thirty

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Speaker 1: million of them roman the country at large. White tail

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Speaker 1: or dear, this is speaking to white tail deer. Good.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you passed the test. You can keep podcasting

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Speaker 1: about tales. Joined by Mark Kenyon, Wired to Hunt Spencer

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Speaker 1: new art of the Meat Eater team. Here. Um, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about white tail stuff. What do you guys

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Speaker 1: think about that? It is something that I do on occasion. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: You've been known to speak of speak of white tails,

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Speaker 1: and every time I do it, I enjoy it. So

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Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to this every time. So get ready, everybody.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be scintillating. Now. This is the time you

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Speaker 1: where people who don't give a shit about white tails

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Speaker 1: right now, other than you freaks, other than you freaks

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Speaker 1: that are out there looking for sheds. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: going on this time of year for white tail folks. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not just finding sheds, what else scouting, low scouting, going on,

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Speaker 1: a lot of prepping. Now was a great time to

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Speaker 1: get out there and be haying your stands now, get that,

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Speaker 1: get that work done now so you're not doing it

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Speaker 1: like you're stretching in a little bit. Yeah, planning out

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Speaker 1: of state hunts when you get your ducks in a

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Speaker 1: row for that. If you manage private land and have

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Speaker 1: stuff you can do like that from the habitat site.

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Speaker 1: And that was a great time to be doing things

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Speaker 1: like timber management, hinge cutting. You're getting some so bored

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Speaker 1: here for access as well. Yeah, knocking in doors you

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Speaker 1: are into like content, you talk to a boring caving

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Speaker 1: and uh you can get maybe some kyote access that

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Speaker 1: maybe leads to something different. Maybe you meet an old

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Speaker 1: man who likes to play checkers. You guys play checkers together,

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Speaker 1: talking about you asked for this, Ben, you can get

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Speaker 1: yourself into this mess. It's probably like the deadest time

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Speaker 1: of year though for a white tailer. And I always

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Speaker 1: finally got back to the truth, if you had to

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Speaker 1: pick the valley in the white tail seasons the lowest

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Speaker 1: EBB point of the year. Yes, So what we're trying

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Speaker 1: to do with this podcast is bring it back up,

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Speaker 1: gives people something. Did you hear about that podcast where

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Speaker 1: they talk about white tails. That's what we're trying to do.

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Speaker 1: That's our goal here. But recently, Mark, you've been out

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Speaker 1: looking look for sheds and you found what seemed to

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Speaker 1: me like a lot of small ones. I wouldn't even

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Speaker 1: say a lot. I found a few sheds, of which

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Speaker 1: they've all been small. It's been a rough because the snow.

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Speaker 1: Partly has been because of the snow, partly simply because

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Speaker 1: of like travel schedule has not allowed me to spend

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Speaker 1: much time in places where there's the numbers and quality

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Speaker 1: of deer to actually finds. A lot of shed hunting

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Speaker 1: comes down to just the quality of the areas are in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: have you You haven't shed on it at all? Have

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Speaker 1: you spencer this year? Uh? I was recently back in

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Speaker 1: South Dakota, where I'm from and where I do most

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Speaker 1: of my deer hunting, this last week, but they had

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Speaker 1: like a foot of snow on the ground, so you

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Speaker 1: would find nothing in that case. Nothing. Yeah, I've I've

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Speaker 1: never really consistent. When I had a lease back in Maryland,

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Speaker 1: I shed on a good bit and I got when

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Speaker 1: I was fully into the white tail year right every

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Speaker 1: season was doing something. But right, I haven't shed hunting

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Speaker 1: in quite some time. You know a lot of people

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Speaker 1: well that don't, that aren't into it, kind of dog

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Speaker 1: it like, oh that seems like a stupid thing. You

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Speaker 1: can't eat antlers? What are you going on their waste

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Speaker 1: your time doing? And I think from my perspective, I

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Speaker 1: really it's a love hate thing. Um But I mostly

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Speaker 1: love it because I enjoy hiking. Like if you like

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Speaker 1: to walk a lot, if you like to hike just

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Speaker 1: for the sake of being outside and doing that, shed

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Speaker 1: outing is a great way to do that because it's

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Speaker 1: a way to get out there, stretcher legs, hike around,

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Speaker 1: be outside and then there's also this little treasure hunt

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Speaker 1: aspect to it, which adds a little bit of fun

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Speaker 1: and um when you do stumble on one, when you

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Speaker 1: do find one, that is a really exciting moment. I saw,

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Speaker 1: I think the other day where guys were advertising guided

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Speaker 1: shed hunts. That's pretty crazy. Describe that you think that

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Speaker 1: might be, Like it's like an Easter egg hunt. Guarantee

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Speaker 1: those dudes are putting them out there. They're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're a little bit warmer, you're hot, you're boiling hot,

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Speaker 1: you're on fire, You're on fire. There's no way that

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Speaker 1: they're just taking them out for a walk. I wonder

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Speaker 1: what the actual specifics of it are if it if

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Speaker 1: it actually entail a guide or is it just access

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Speaker 1: like you pay. Now this one was a guided, like

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Speaker 1: you paid to go to a lodge and a feller

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Speaker 1: would walk around with you like that. I'll just say,

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Speaker 1: that's not my cup of tea. I could see. I

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Speaker 1: think I could be. I think I could be a

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Speaker 1: shed hunting guide if you wanted to learn about shed hunting,

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Speaker 1: Like if you had found two sheds in your whole

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Speaker 1: life and you're like, what am I doing wrong? I

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Speaker 1: have to dial this in there could be an advantage

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Speaker 1: to that, like going out with somebody who you know

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Speaker 1: you're gonna find sheds with. But otherwise I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of guys type in the Google shed

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Speaker 1: hunting outfitter. But I do know some people who I

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Speaker 1: do have friends who really love to shed hunt, who

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Speaker 1: have said to me, man, it would be cool to

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Speaker 1: for once in our lives, like get access to the

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Speaker 1: kind of place where you could find fifty amlers in

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Speaker 1: a day, Like you see people on social media having

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Speaker 1: these days on these big managed properties, and like myself

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Speaker 1: and all my friends, like, we don't have that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. So when we go, it's usually public land

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Speaker 1: or something we knocked on the doors of. And if

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Speaker 1: you're you're lucky even in the best place says to

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Speaker 1: find ten antlers between a group of five or something

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Speaker 1: like that. So once in your life to go somewhere

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Speaker 1: that's just loaded with deer, just brown antlers everywhere. Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't think i'd pay money to do that, but

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Speaker 1: I certainly wouldn't mind, like getting invited to go along

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Speaker 1: on something that and just and you would travel like

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Speaker 1: three states away because you do that. Oh yeah, I've

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Speaker 1: travel across the country forget. I hope non hunters are

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Speaker 1: listening to this and they know how crazy we are,

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Speaker 1: because I was thinking, yeah, I do that too. I

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Speaker 1: would It's hard to describe why it's that much fun,

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Speaker 1: but it's just could you like being outsidely? I said,

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Speaker 1: there's just something really neat about being outside and then

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Speaker 1: searching for something and occasionally finding it and then antlers

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Speaker 1: to me, like holding an antler in your hand, It's

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Speaker 1: just like a really cool artifact of a life, like

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Speaker 1: seeing something that used to be part of a living

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Speaker 1: animal and then is now something you can hold in

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Speaker 1: your hand and touch and feel and spin around, and

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Speaker 1: like there's fascinating objects on her own and to be

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Speaker 1: able to find a bunch of those is just well,

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Speaker 1: you develop these relationships with those animals, man, and you're

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Speaker 1: you know, you're tracking them all year round. It's fun

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Speaker 1: to find a little You're find literally a little piece

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Speaker 1: of them, which brings me to what's your favorite kind

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Speaker 1: of shed to find? Like a little little blood on

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Speaker 1: the pedicle? Does that get your going? Like? Does that?

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say, like what gets you going? Yeah? I

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily value like a fresh ee anymore than fresh, freshy,

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Speaker 1: but it would be like fresh, its fresh. It would

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Speaker 1: be nowhere they're like, oh, look at this one fresh

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Speaker 1: just and I mean a fresh antler is nice. Like

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Speaker 1: I definitely prefer something that's not been chewed on by

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Speaker 1: animals and stuff, just simply because it's pretty. It feels

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Speaker 1: good in your hand. It's just a cool thing. But

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Speaker 1: like an old chalky shoot up one is just whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's not quite as aesthetically pleased. Do you feel though

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Speaker 1: it would be more exciting because you're like, well, nobody

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Speaker 1: found this and I somehow stumbled upon it, the old

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Speaker 1: shoot up one. Yeah, I guess that's one way to

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Speaker 1: look at him. Yeah, you don't seem excited about that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not too much. Even when I lived within like ten

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Speaker 1: miles of where I primarily a white tail hunt, I

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Speaker 1: just didn't get into shed hunting that much. But I would, um,

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Speaker 1: like for the reason of Kevin fever, Like South Dakota

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Speaker 1: winners are pretty awful and uh, by the time, like

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Speaker 1: marsh rolls around and there's nothing else to do. Sick

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Speaker 1: of ice fishing, uh, sick of being inside, Like shed

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Speaker 1: hunting sounds pretty good at that point, so I can

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Speaker 1: get into it. So you're saying that when you're at

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Speaker 1: the your most desperate, Yes, you're you can barely think

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Speaker 1: about anything else to do. You've read all the books

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Speaker 1: you're out of. As far as we're like shed hunting

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Speaker 1: ranks and what I like to do outside, it's it's

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Speaker 1: pretty low. And I don't think I would ever drive

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Speaker 1: what you went from Michigan to western North Dakota. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's got to be like a thousand miles. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: do that. I'd go that far to to kill a deer,

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Speaker 1: but not look for a deer's antlers. Not to be fair,

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Speaker 1: that was shed hunting and scouting, Okay, And I hit

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Speaker 1: Montana Fair in North Kakota and I killed a deer there,

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Speaker 1: so that scout and shed paid off. Yeah. My view

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Speaker 1: on is always like, this is not going to help

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Speaker 1: me kill a deer. If I'm out there and I

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Speaker 1: find a specific antler or find no ansler's Um, that's

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Speaker 1: my view. I don't think this is going to help

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Speaker 1: me kill a deer. But I did talk to a

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Speaker 1: body a few weeks ago that kind of changed my

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Speaker 1: perspective on it. Um. He was looking for elk sheds

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Speaker 1: in South Dakota. In a unit that it's tough to draw,

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Speaker 1: all units of South Dakota tough to draw. Anyway, he

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Speaker 1: found the piece of public and he got in there

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Speaker 1: and he found three elk sheds at which are They

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Speaker 1: were in obvious places and so to him that meant

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Speaker 1: nobody else had been there, like in the last few years,

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Speaker 1: because they were old sheds, and so that was really valuable.

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Speaker 1: Like that's an obvious um sign that you were one

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Speaker 1: of the few hunters in there at that time. So

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Speaker 1: I could see the value to that point, like finding

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Speaker 1: them on public land and these places that so you're saying,

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Speaker 1: go and plant sheds and obvious places where you know

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Speaker 1: they're no elk. So hunters like this guy I'm going

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Speaker 1: back there really dispersed the other hunters. So that's some

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Speaker 1: value I could see in it. But from the just

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Speaker 1: finding an aniler and being excited about it, not so much. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm hoping to convinced Mark Kenyon of something. There was

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Speaker 1: an article in Outside magazine and this article, uh, it's

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Speaker 1: called in Memory of Yellowstone Wolf nine to six F.

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Speaker 1: You possibly read that, Mark. I lanced that. I did

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Speaker 1: not read it, but I know the basic gist, like

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Speaker 1: the deck here is kind of like she was a

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Speaker 1: survivor and an alpha, and then she was legally shot

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Speaker 1: and killed by a hunter. Yellostone Park's legendary wolf researcher

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Speaker 1: Rick McIntyre reflects on the life of one of the

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Speaker 1: park's most famous canines. And this guy waxes about wolf

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Speaker 1: to six in a way that I respect like his

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Speaker 1: I don't. I would never make fun of his relationship

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Speaker 1: with the animal. Yeah. Um, and he definitely uh personifies

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Speaker 1: her in a lot of ways and talks about his

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Speaker 1: how he cared for, how he tracked her since she

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Speaker 1: was born, things of that nature. And my thought was

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Speaker 1: not that, not that old and Rick had some unnatural relationship.

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Speaker 1: I first thought of you, I thought, well, Mark Kenyon, Well,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon has names animals and follows them throughout their lives.

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Speaker 1: He just happens to kill them at the end and

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Speaker 1: eat them. Yeah. So I want to convince you to

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Speaker 1: write an article where you, maybe, like for Frank, would

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Speaker 1: write this eulogy like this fellow did for a wolf,

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Speaker 1: but then at the end he would like and I

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Speaker 1: shot it and I ate it. Convinced Outside to publish it.

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Speaker 1: Next to that, and convince Outside to publish it. What

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Speaker 1: are you willing to take that on? It would be

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Speaker 1: a very interesting pairing, that's for sure. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's because you would start it like I remember

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Speaker 1: when Frank was born like an all series. No, not

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Speaker 1: to that, but it is interesting to you bring it up,

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Speaker 1: because like when I saw that article, I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh jeez, like some serious anthropomorphization. Um. I didn't say

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Speaker 1: that work as I always always stumble over the pronunciation

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Speaker 1: of and so thank you for them, You're welcome. Um.

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Speaker 1: That just goes too far. And you see this a

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Speaker 1: lot with the wolf debate. UM, and I will publicly

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Speaker 1: like I I am not like an anti wolfer like

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Speaker 1: I I'm okay with I'm all from management of them.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, I'm happy they're on the ecosystem.

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Speaker 1: A lot of players to it, they their native species.

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Speaker 1: I'm okay with that. UM. So I'm not someone who

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Speaker 1: like vehementally anti wolf, but when I see stuff like this,

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Speaker 1: they go so far to the other direction that you know,

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Speaker 1: Disney fies these animals and makes it seem like they're

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Speaker 1: a little happy family of people up there that were

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Speaker 1: attacked by vicious hunters. And this whole relationship that they

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Speaker 1: kind of contrive from watching something in the spoty scope

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Um. I kind of rolled my eyes at

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Speaker 1: it a little bit. Not that I don't respect the

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Speaker 1: fact that they appreciate and respect these animals so much,

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Speaker 1: but something like the way it's tis a strange parallel,

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Speaker 1: he says. Rick says this, she had a long, exciting

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Speaker 1: life and overcame great difficulties. Tens of thousands of people

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Speaker 1: got to see her live that life and were inspired

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Speaker 1: by her grit and determination. Her family is carrying on.

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Speaker 1: Next April, her adult daughter will likely have a litter

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Speaker 1: of new pups at the pax stn. In my attempt

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Speaker 1: to deal with the death of of a wolf I

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Speaker 1: knew so well and admired so greatly, I thought of

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Speaker 1: something I could do. WO was shot about a mile

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Speaker 1: from my cabin. I found the site where she had

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Speaker 1: blew out her blood out and collected some of her

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Speaker 1: frozen blood. I trudged through the snow to where had

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Speaker 1: been born and where I had seen her play with

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Speaker 1: her pups, and left her remains there. I did it

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Speaker 1: for her family, but mostly I did it for her.

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Speaker 1: She deserved to come back home. It's good writing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and like I can appreciate appreciation for wildlife and animals

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Speaker 1: like them. Yeah that's because I do too. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: not making light of what this guy feels like. I

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Speaker 1: understand what he's going through. But I just think it's

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Speaker 1: funny that there's this parallel between particularly white tail hunters,

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Speaker 1: because you're in close proximity to the animal, right that

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Speaker 1: that you can no a deer, probably not from what

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Speaker 1: it's born, but pretty freaking close you know, and track

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Speaker 1: it and find its sheds and and and understand each

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Speaker 1: year what age it is. You get pictures of it

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Speaker 1: every year. Um. I know a lot of white tail

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Speaker 1: ranges where they have little flipbooks of a deer's whole life,

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Speaker 1: like every picture of it. As soon as you call

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Speaker 1: it a ranch, and it wasn't Texas, it's a low fencer. Um. Kid.

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Speaker 1: But I know what you're saying, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Like there's a relationship they like this guy had a

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Speaker 1: relationship with the wolf. He just like he took it

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Speaker 1: to what I believe is unrealistic level. Right for at

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Speaker 1: least he didn't write about it. I remember the time

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Speaker 1: that wolf ate the asshole of a mule deer, although

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Speaker 1: that would be a great vignette. Yeah, I remember, you know,

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Speaker 1: one time I was I was following the wolf pack

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Speaker 1: and she got on the track of a baby of

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Speaker 1: a fawn mule deer, and I remember when she ripped

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Speaker 1: its throat out. What a wonderful experience. Conveniently leave out

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Speaker 1: the part that this is a killing machine, right, I

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Speaker 1: don't I don't mind his relationship and his admiration of

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Speaker 1: the animal, but he takes away almost all the realism there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so I think that what's interesting is, like I

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Speaker 1: have my gut reaction has like boy, roll my eyes.

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Speaker 1: But then to your point, if I do put a

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Speaker 1: mirror up to myself and look at what I how

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Speaker 1: I engage with with deer, you're right, like, there is

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Speaker 1: an interesting kind of relationship that forms when you hunt

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Speaker 1: the same deer for multiple years, when I see it

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Speaker 1: over and over and over again, I studying, and I

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Speaker 1: look at trail camera pictures and I observe it, and

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Speaker 1: I have, you know, moments of engagement where I see

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Speaker 1: this a little close at a close call, or almost

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Speaker 1: got a shot at all these different things. Yeah, in

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Speaker 1: a really weird way. That's hard to explain to someone

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Speaker 1: who's not been a part of that you do form

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Speaker 1: a kind of relationship with that animal, which then becomes

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Speaker 1: really weird when you talk about the fact that you're

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Speaker 1: trying to kill that animal that I so enjoy that,

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Speaker 1: I so appreciate that. Um, it's a weird thing. And

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Speaker 1: so I have had situations like there was a bucket

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Speaker 1: hunted for three years and watched and had a lot

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Speaker 1: of encounters with um and after successfully killing that buck,

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Speaker 1: eventually I had like a weird swamp of emotions afterwards,

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Speaker 1: like sitting back and realizing, Wow, I'm never gonna see

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Speaker 1: that dear again. And it's similar, like to this guy

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Speaker 1: to the point of the deer you encounter, see you

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Speaker 1: don't kill, and a lot of those get killed by

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Speaker 1: someone else. So like you are dealing with the same

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Speaker 1: thing that there's some buck you're aware of, you've known

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Speaker 1: him for four years, and then a neighbor kills him.

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Speaker 1: It's very similar to what this guy is talking about. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so there's there's like the these weird parallels, and I

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Speaker 1: feel like this is with all hunters and then non

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Speaker 1: hunting lovers of wildlife like that this weird parallel we

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00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,440
Speaker 1: always draw what we both care about the animal. There's

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Speaker 1: at some point in the parallel line where we divert,

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Speaker 1: you know. They go into this like intense, almost unrealistic love,

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Speaker 1: and we go into this more pragmatic stance of I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna kill it and need it now. We've had this

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Speaker 1: caring relationship of this animal for all this time. We

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Speaker 1: just take the left fork and they take the right

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Speaker 1: for it, and it just we forget that we're traveling

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Speaker 1: along the same path, you know. Um. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: think it's I guess to to to kind of wrap

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Speaker 1: all that up in my own mind, Like I think

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Speaker 1: it's probably a good lesson for myself to remember not

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Speaker 1: to go to not to jump to that eye rolling,

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Speaker 1: um reaction right away when I see something like that,

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Speaker 1: but instead remember that, you know, we're on the same

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Speaker 1: path for a lot of this, and it's probably much

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Speaker 1: more helpful to engage someone like that and talking like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I've gotten I've had relationships like this, I respect what

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Speaker 1: you're saying and have meaningful conversations versus right away. So

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Speaker 1: then these guys are Yahoo's squirrel. Yeah, it's it's way

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Speaker 1: too easy. That's the way too easy round and we're

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Speaker 1: you know, we're always in whether we'd like to say

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Speaker 1: it or not. We like say, oh, we're not in

377
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Speaker 1: an echo chamber. Bullshit. We're all in a similar echo chamber.

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Speaker 1: Whether you're in the White Tail space or just the

379
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Speaker 1: Western hunting space or whatever, you're an echo chamber. And

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00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,359
Speaker 1: you're talking about things that would seem crazy, that us

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Speaker 1: killing animals that we care about. Is Is it crazy

382
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 1: to that guy? Is us? Is that dude talking about

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00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,359
Speaker 1: you know, taking bits of blood and burying it? You

384
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 1: know it is us, same kind of same kind of gap.

385
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Speaker 1: Live in a world filled a lot of paradoxes. So

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Speaker 1: are you willing to write this article? And we'll pitch it.

387
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:49,879
Speaker 1: I know, I know this website. We could put it

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Speaker 1: on mediate or dot com. I'd consider it loosely, loosely

389
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Speaker 1: consider we'll have you. We'll have you back alone when

390
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 1: you're prepared to break here your article, and then well

391
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 1: then you could write. Then then I scooped up the

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00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 1: remains of the deer, put it in my truck, drove

393
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,239
Speaker 1: the truck to my house, went inside my house, and

394
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 1: cook the deer and ate the deer. What a lovely

395
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Speaker 1: And I do see that as a form of show

396
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Speaker 1: in my respects, just like he showed what he did

397
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 1: as a farm of his respects. Yeah, I'm about to

398
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 1: have this one. This vegan guy on that was trying

399
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 1: to argue with me about the morality of our relationship

400
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,359
Speaker 1: with animals and why don't we just treat them like us, Like, well,

401
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 1: we don't eat us, we eat them. And if you want,

402
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 1: if you want to display the ultimate understanding what animal is,

403
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,919
Speaker 1: I would imagine that eating it is a part of

404
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 1: that also understanding your humanity. So it's a there's there's

405
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 1: two ways to look at that. What was so Mark?

406
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 1: You could go to Wyoming, like learn the deer herd

407
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 1: in that area, name a few deer, wait for that

408
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: wolf to kill those deer, and then the proper response

409
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 1: is I like it your wolf killed my dear that

410
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: I really liked. And then you'd be like I remember

411
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 1: when dear one to three kill my wolf was born

412
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 1: and he was yet three hours old, and wolf nine

413
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 1: to six came around the corner and ate his the

414
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,719
Speaker 1: whole entire body. This has got lots of potentials. I

415
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,119
Speaker 1: remember when one to three was pooped out? What a

416
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 1: what a day? Yeah? What a day? All right? Let's

417
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: let's just gently move on from that one. Um, I

418
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: want to move on to a subject it's near and

419
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 1: dear to my heart. Is that if somebody shoots a

420
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: big giant buck, as Steve Ornella would say, and we're

421
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 1: talking like big bucks, we'll say, for for sake of

422
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,199
Speaker 1: sake of this conversation, it's either a record breaking animal

423
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 1: of some kind, right, we'll just we'll stick to white

424
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: tails since that sort of thing, or or a deer

425
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 1: over My question to you two is why do immediately

426
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: all other hunters hate that person? Number one? I think

427
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 1: that's maybe more obvious. But why is it always that

428
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: that had to be a farm to deer, that had

429
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: to be a high fence deer. Even if, like in

430
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,439
Speaker 1: the case of an article that that we ran on

431
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 1: our website, even if record book keeping organizations are saying

432
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 1: this is at the Boone and Crocket Club or the

433
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: Pope and Young Club is saying we accept this into

434
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 1: a record book, that that means they've done the research

435
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: and they determined it to be fair Chase, Why why

436
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: are most folks first reaction two to throw that shade

437
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 1: over those types of things? So I would I would

438
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 1: first said that I don't think most folks come to that.

439
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 1: I think it's similar to like any almost anything these days,

440
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: Like you throw a political topic out there, there's always

441
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: a very vocal minority. So I think this is the

442
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: case of the vocal minority stealing the spotlight on something

443
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 1: like that, and that vocal minority oftentimes is angry, lonely, jealous,

444
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: something going on, that this is their way to strike

445
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: out online and feel half a percent better about themselves

446
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: or something. That's my best guess. Yeah, I would agree

447
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 1: with you that not every hunter thinks that, and it

448
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 1: is a small group, but it's the loudest group. Um.

449
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 1: But and I think that's the obvious answer, is like jealousy.

450
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,199
Speaker 1: But I think there is also a point to it

451
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 1: that like, uh, it's hard, really hard to fathom like

452
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 1: a two white tail because the majority of hunters have

453
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: not seen I think there's like ten million hunters in

454
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 1: the US. Uh. Every one of them besides like the

455
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 1: one guy who killed it, for the most part, has

456
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: never seen a deer that big, and it's not used

457
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: to dear growing that big. But we are in the

458
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,479
Speaker 1: golden age of deer hunting, specifically for white tails, so

459
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: it's hard to fathom that there are deer that big

460
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: out there, Yeah, especially depending on you live to Like,

461
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 1: if you live in the state that you almost never

462
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: see a hundred twenty inch type buck your whole life,

463
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: to then see a two buck online, it does seem

464
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: kind of unfathomable. Yeah, And and like most recently the uh,

465
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: the buck that was killed by Brewster in Illinois. Illinois

466
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: is a giant white tail state, Like, that's not hard

467
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: to believe that there was a sil white tail tacking

468
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: around there. That's still incredible. Illinois seems like the appropriate

469
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: place for that to happen. But the last time, like

470
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 1: a notable white tail record dropped, do you remember what

471
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: state that was? In? Mark Tennessee, Tennessee, which if you

472
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: and I made a list of like the top twenty

473
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: white tail states, that would not be on either one

474
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: of our lists. And so that one, it's easy to

475
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: understand how people were skeptical when there's an enormous deer

476
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: out of a southern state like that that is not

477
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: known for white tails. Yeah, I mean think I think skeptics,

478
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: you know, being skeptical is always important, right, That's something

479
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: that you know we should all be willing to accept

480
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: right just to sketch. And there's been a lot of

481
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 1: folks who shot. I remember a guy at Pennsylvania shoots

482
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: this farm deer, takes it over, throws it in a field,

483
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 1: walks up on it, tells you because he was jealous

484
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: that his brother had shot a really big deer of

485
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: the year prior, and investigate. Investigation comes out and says, Okay,

486
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 1: this is bogus. So that that happens, So that creates

487
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: the environment where skepticism is is healthy. But I mean,

488
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: I just want to read you. You know. We posted

489
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: on the Mediator Facebook page an article that Spencer wrote, uh,

490
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: and we said breaking news. After rescoring the Luke Brewster

491
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: white sale, the Pope and Young Club has determined it's

492
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: even larger than previously thought, nearly three inches. It's officially

493
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: the biggest wild buck ever taken. And this thing, if

494
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: you haven't seen it, look up a picture of it.

495
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: It's just it's a bizarre looking deer. It's a bizarre

496
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 1: looking deer, pretty wild. I haven't looked at the comments,

497
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: but some of my guests people are gonna like reference

498
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: steroids or something like that, or get ready stop posting this.

499
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: Obviously Farm deer. I'm so tired of seeing it. Total bullshit.

500
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: That guy says, this guy says, meat Eater is losing

501
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: credibility with posts like this. The deer on the left,

502
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: which is the Brewster deer, is obviously on the juice.

503
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: I missed the old days of meat Eater. There's too

504
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: much clickbait, the Barry Bonds of deer. It's pretty funny.

505
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: Um game Farm released. I'm sure this ship's out of control.

506
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: It's pretty much every every other comment of the commentary

507
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: here is is about this. So what do what do

508
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: we do? Just take it and take it and say

509
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: it's existed in skepticism these people. So you're saying all

510
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: the lonely people you were talking about happened to be

511
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: on Facebook, happen they also happened to follow meat Eater.

512
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: I just feel like you tend to get that kind

513
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: of thing. When when a big buck, exceptionally big buck

514
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: gets put up, there's gonna be a group of folks

515
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 1: that want to jump on it. They want to jump

516
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: to conclusions, to have a jump to conclusions. Matt and

517
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: away his air towards the negative side, and you see

518
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: somebody with a deer that big I think a lot

519
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: of guys naturally jumped too, Like this guy is an

520
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: asshole with money, like he when paid twelve tho dollars

521
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: to shoot that buck behind the high fence in Ohio

522
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: or Texas or whatever. And that's like what a lot

523
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: of people are projecting onto a wild deer from Illinois.

524
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, this guy says he was he was

525
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: definitely being fed supplements. Awesome buck though, Yeah, you know

526
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: it's it's funny because you're right, like the latter does happen, right,

527
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: There are people that will pay some ridiculous some money

528
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: to go I want to call hunt, do you want

529
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: to go shoot an animal that it's in a high

530
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: fence area? And I have all sorts of opinions and

531
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: thoughts and issues of that, um valid concerns around that.

532
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: Um so yeah, people probably then make assumptions and project

533
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: that onto some of these deer that do seem so

534
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: out of the ordinary. And I guess there's something part

535
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: of me that can understand why might jumped to that.

536
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 1: I just like I personally don't ever feel the need

537
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: to go in comment like maybe in my health big

538
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 1: that's kind of sketchy looking, but I don't see the

539
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: need to go in there and publicly say you're a

540
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: douche bag. This is obviously on stuff. Lem's blah blah blah,

541
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: and most people wouldn't. Most people don't. Most people, but

542
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 1: I I just remember reading these comments when it first

543
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: came out. I just thought, and if this is not again,

544
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: I used to work with North American white tail back

545
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: in the day. I've I've seen this stuff. We post

546
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: things and it will almost always be the reaction. Um.

547
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure if it's this a symptom of

548
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 1: the white tale's community obsession with giant things. Uh. And

549
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: I don't. I think the white tail community obsession with

550
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: giant antlers didn't help create, but is is symptomatic of

551
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: the you know, high fence breeder bucks, like those things

552
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: are connected. Yeah, man, I don't think this. I don't

553
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: think you can just say it's just the white tail

554
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: community though. Man, the entire hunting community. No. Yeah, we're like,

555
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: I'm just saying white tails because we're sitting here with

556
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: talking about white tails. Um. I with the entire hunting

557
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: community fetishize is big antlers for sure, absolutely, And there's

558
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: plenty of you know, the spider bowl being one of them.

559
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: There's plenty of l hunters who have bought a giant tag,

560
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: you know, paid six figures, bought a tag, had a

561
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: bunch of people go track down an LP for him.

562
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: They walk in and shoot it, take a picture whe it.

563
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: They're the record holder. So I mean there is a

564
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: lot of h a lot of it's called duggery around

565
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: big animals. But you know, the white tailed world, like

566
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: you know, the traditional television programs, traditional print media in

567
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: the digital space, like there's this fetishizing of big bucks

568
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: that has to have an effect on the culture in

569
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: a negative way. And like the people that commented that

570
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: you rather comment specifically, they're just uneducated assholes. Like that's

571
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: the easiest way to put it. Wow, that's a strong stan.

572
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: Well here's my point. So like, and I'll tell you

573
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: their names. The Bruister Buck, I think, uh, the two

574
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: deer that it passed were in and I had to

575
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: write in there specifically hunter killed deer because it did

576
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: not surpass like the biggest white tail in the books,

577
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: which I think we're two other ones. Um one was

578
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: like do you do you remember Mark? It was hit,

579
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: it was killed by somebody found it or there was

580
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: like a buck found in Missouri that was dead back

581
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: in like the sixties or something. So that was, you know,

582
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: fifty years ago that there wasn't high fence white tail

583
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: farms at that point. And I think there was another

584
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: deer like fifty years ago that was also found dead

585
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: that is at the very very top of the record book.

586
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: And so like even in En when that deer was killed. Uh,

587
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: there were bigger dudes than that pretty long time ago.

588
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: It's a good point. Yeah that had been found. Yeah,

589
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: you know, you want I just wonder about that why

590
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: that reaction is triggered. And most people, like you said

591
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: that the easiest answers be like their assholes. Um, there's

592
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: other answers to that question, though, I sure. I think

593
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: maybe what you're getting at is that there is a

594
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: pushback to the big buck fetish and maybe this is

595
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: a similar this this is a reaction just a lot

596
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: of regular folks are tired of it. Um. But again

597
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: they I think given a chance, they would shoot that buck, right,

598
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: everybody would shoot that buck given a chance. But I

599
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: think there's there's there's a lot of people that are

600
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: just tired of it. Some people said in those comments

601
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: they would not choose that buck. Though I remember someone saying,

602
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: like that steroid deer, I wouldn't shoot that thing like

603
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: wild deer better eating, But that person is an asshole,

604
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't shoot Yeah, Like to your point, I agree in

605
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: that it has gone overboard in a lot of ways,

606
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: and the way we like hero worship people that shoot

607
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: big deer and and try to um assign some kind

608
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: of value or skill level to a hunter or people

609
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: self assigned to themselves, like I'm a big bad because

610
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: I kill all these big too earnish bucks or whatever.

611
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: I see that being like ridiculous. Um. I don't think

612
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: that high scoring bucks in any way represent some type

613
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: of skill in most cases to a certain hunter. In

614
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: many cases, it's just a product of where you happen

615
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: to be or good luck, or in some cases there

616
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: are guys who spend a lot of time trying to

617
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: find animals like that, and you can't say that that

618
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: didn't take them some amount of work, um and things

619
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: like that. But in general, I think that the way

620
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: I look at Antler's score and stuff like that, now,

621
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: to me just personally, it's like, do I find big

622
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: bucks exciting to see, fun to hunt? Like awesome? And

623
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: just like a cool, enjoyable, interesting, fascinating animal to look at,

624
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: sea hunt look for Yeah, like they're just cool. You

625
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: can't help but look at an animal like that and

626
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: marvel at what is the relatively rare thing in a

627
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: species and animal that reached a high age that has

628
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: the genetic ChIL to to grow large anglers. And it's

629
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: a beautiful, cool rare of things. So I don't think

630
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: there's an issue with appreciating that, um and I certainly do.

631
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: And I think also it's fair to say that even

632
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: the people that get pissy and common stuff like that,

633
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: even they appreciate that too, like there, well, that's a

634
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: heck of a buck. Like that's cool. There's a lot

635
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: of like, oh, steroids book, great buck. But I think

636
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: I think the I think the frustration begins like when

637
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: we start saying like or when people start feeling like

638
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,239
Speaker 1: they have to kill do like that to feel good

639
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: about themselves or to be a quote unquote big counter.

640
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: Like there's like self worth things that get tied into

641
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: all this now because we're saying, oh, such and such

642
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: is so amazing because he's killed five booners this year,

643
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: and I think everybody else that says, well, I won't

644
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: even see a one tent or something. Then there's gonna

645
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: be some bitterness. And there shows like Team two hundred

646
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: and and you know people like Spook Span who have

647
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: like the the that's that's how they get their street

648
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: cred um. And I think, like I said, I think

649
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: culturally hunting it's appropriate to you know, want to or

650
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: lust after like the the rarity of a large and

651
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: like that. To me, it's appropriate. It's not it's not

652
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: something that's something that I do. If I see a

653
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: big buck, I'm not gonna be like now, I'll keep looking. Yeah,

654
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: I'm excited by the big buck. There's four bucks in

655
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: the field. The biggest ones on I'm looking at, I mean,

656
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: the most unique ones sometimes is the one I'm looking at.

657
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: So I don't begrudge anybody that. But I think as

658
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: as our culture has kind of dug deeper into what

659
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: that really means psychologically, we've kind of gone in some

660
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: weird directions, and like the white tail community I think

661
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: is ground zero for that kind of shift in hunting culture.

662
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: But it's everybody. The Pope and Young Record Book has

663
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: had seventeen of the thirty four records broken in the

664
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: last decade. That's not coincidental. Like every hunter who targets

665
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,240
Speaker 1: big game has an infatuation with you know, big animals

666
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: or big antlers, not just the white tail community. And

667
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: it should be pointed out this is not new. No,

668
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: Like this was happening a hundred years ago, two d

669
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: years ago, Like Theodore Roosevelt was really pumped up to

670
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: find a really big elk or a really big white

671
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: And when folks were putting cap paintings on the wall,

672
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: you know, there's these are big antlered animals. They weren't

673
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: showing the little spikes. So I think it's natural for

674
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: humans and hunters to see something like that and like wow,

675
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 1: But media and culture and all these things have probably

676
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: cranked it up to that's yes, I think, like I said,

677
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: it's appropriate, And like the bigger question I don't. I

678
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: don't think any of us could really answer, is why

679
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: is it natural? Like what about that? What about that

680
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: animal in our relationship? That animal makes it natural for

681
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: us to desire to shoot the biggest one? Right? I

682
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: think we have posthumously started to you know, we'll get

683
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: into shooting young bucks here, but we've posthumously assigned it

684
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: to management, right, Um like, if you're if you're if

685
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: you're saying that, you know, the q d M, a

686
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: style of white tail hunting didn't come and wasn't didn't

687
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: come into play in the thirties, sure didn't come into

688
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: play at the turn of the century. Um, so we've

689
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: posthumously kind of added that to the the ledger of

690
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: reasons why we do it. Yeah, I think it's definitely

691
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: part of it now, but certainly not all um that

692
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: in specifics. But yeah, I don't have any answer to

693
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: why it's natural. I could try to articulated, but I

694
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,439
Speaker 1: don't know that I could very well. And I think

695
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: that's a problem. That's part of the problem. It's hard

696
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: to it's hard to articulate why that why it is,

697
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: why it is? I mean, if I was, I think

698
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 1: it's it's My guess is that it's like a combination

699
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: of just the pure aesthetics, Like it's just aesthetically when

700
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: you see a large antlered animal, just like when you

701
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: see a huge bear, just like when you see a

702
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: huge lion, or any any kind of large, formidable top

703
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: of its species type of feature set, Like that's just

704
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: an aesthetically impressive thing. Just now why that's impressive. I

705
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: can't answer that question, but maybe it goes back to

706
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 1: our long long ago ancestors that are used to having

707
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: to be able to assign some kind of value to

708
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: an animal based off of physical characteristics or size. It

709
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 1: would help us understand if it's dangerous, if it's worth

710
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 1: pursuing for food, whatever. Way back in the day. Maybe

711
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: that's something that it was helpful for us to be

712
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: able to ascertain by visually, you know, looking at an

713
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: animal like that. Maybe. And I do think the rarity

714
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: of something makes it makes the value higher to whether

715
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: that be a mineral, whether it be an animal, whether

716
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: that be a nice pair of sneakers something, Things that

717
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: are rare are always looked at as more valuable. And

718
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 1: I think that just natural then applies in this case. Yeah.

719
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: I think hunters also. I think humans desire challenge, right.

720
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: You desire you seek if you if you seek improvement,

721
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 1: you seek the greatest amount of challenge. Right. So if

722
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: you seek improvement as a hunter, you seek you know,

723
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: by by proxy, you're seeking this rare thing or this

724
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: challenging thing to find, and you're and almost somewhere deep

725
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: down you're facing off with the most challenging animal to kill. Right, Um,

726
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: we all know sneaking up on a one year old

727
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: white tail is a lot different than sneaking up on

728
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: a six year old white tail. Um, whether it's a

729
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: bucker or do so. I don't know that we'll ever

730
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: really get to that part of it, but I think

731
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 1: it's an example of how these how sometimes we just

732
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: do things because it's it's part of our culture without

733
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: thinking about the grand effect of it. And there's the

734
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: issue I think in that, or what worries me within

735
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: the culture is that you get people who feel that

736
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: they have to just do this thing because it's what

737
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: you do. And I think that's when you get some

738
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: bitterness because there's maybe some people that don't actually want

739
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: to be or need to be targeting big or mature bucks,

740
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: but they feel like there's this cultural pressure to do so.

741
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 1: And so you've got people that are just starting out hunting,

742
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: maybe um or people that you know, just they want

743
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 1: to get some meat and they don't care about hunting

744
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 1: for four months. They just want to have their weekend

745
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: and want to fill the freezer, which is perfectly fine,

746
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: but they don't like the fact that when they do that,

747
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 1: they've got a neighbor who gives them crap about it,

748
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: Or there's a new hunter who listens to the Wired

749
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 1: and podcast and reads the Meteor website and they see

750
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: big Bucks all the time on these websites and they

751
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: hear about us talking about these things, and they're thinking, well,

752
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: that's what everyone's doing, I better do it too, Like

753
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to not be the person doing that.

754
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: So I think that's the danger, is that making it

755
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 1: seem like it's what everyone should be doing or has

756
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: to be doing, or that that is what everyone's doing.

757
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: I think that's where, um, you get these false um

758
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: limitations put on people. Maybe that um, it could be

759
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: a matter of fulfillment to like it's a challenging you're

760
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: wanting a thing and wanting to be fulfilled, but there's

761
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 1: some sort of intrinsic like there's there's always it would

762
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: be easier if intrinsically you're like, I just want to

763
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: kill an animal, right and I just want to either

764
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: eat it or yeah, even hanging on my wall. I

765
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 1: don't really care what to what age the animal is

766
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,439
Speaker 1: or how big the set of anilers are on its head.

767
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: I just will be fulfilled if I go outside experience

768
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: this and at the end of the day I'm successful

769
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: in killing a animal. That would that would be much

770
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: easier and probably a much more fulfilling hunting life, right,

771
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,879
Speaker 1: Like I think I think there's have you heard about

772
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: the stages of hunters? Like there's is like, oh, yeah,

773
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: there's not. Not everybody goes through all these stages, but

774
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: there is sometimes a somewhat generic set of steps up

775
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: the ladder that sometimes, uh typically hunters might take, at

776
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: least like for myself, I could say I followed something

777
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: along that, right, there's yeah, that first phase that you

778
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 1: just want to like figure it out and be able

779
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: to kill an animal, figure out how to hunt. And

780
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: so you finally do that, and that's awesome at that point,

781
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: like getting any animals a huge accomplishment and it's a

782
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,439
Speaker 1: big step in this new direction. And then eventually figure

783
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: out how to do that and then to your point

784
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: about challenge. Many times, if you find that fulfilling and

785
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: you enjoy that and you want to participate in that more,

786
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: then it's like, how do you take it to the

787
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 1: next what's the next step, what's the next challenge, what's

788
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 1: the next way to deepen this thing? I'm into and

789
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: that's then usually it's I want to numbers. It's like

790
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 1: I want to kill. I want to have a lot

791
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: of success as a hunter, So hunt a bunch, feel,

792
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 1: a bunch of tags, whatever it might be. And then

793
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: many times then the next step is, Okay, I've figured

794
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: out how to do that. Then for many people it's

795
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: how do I do that next rare thing, which is

796
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: killing an older or bigger animal. And then again that's

797
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 1: that's a challenge thing. And then eventually many people get

798
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: to the point where I've checked the boxes. I've had

799
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: these really long seasons where I hunted these deer for

800
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: a long time. I've killed some big mature bucks. That

801
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: was really exciting, and I learned a lot and I

802
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: became a great hunter. Now, you know, now I'm not

803
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: quite as interested in that. I mean, it's still fun

804
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: what happens, but now I just really want to see

805
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: my kids have success. I really want to help other

806
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: people have success. I really just want to be out

807
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: there and enjoy the scenery and just soak it all

808
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: in and think back on all those great memories. I

809
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: don't need to pull the tricker now to still enjoy it.

810
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: Just the process. Um, I think a lot of people

811
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: go through that you don't have to. So that final

812
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: one is kind of like a Buddhist mentality. I think

813
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 1: maybe eliminated the craving, because that's a big thing in Buddhism,

814
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,919
Speaker 1: like the the four Noble Truths, Right, you eliminate they're

815
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,479
Speaker 1: basically just saying you're eliminating the craving, right, and that's

816
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: bring a less desirous and more happy life. Yeah, so

817
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people to bring Buddhism in

818
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: the fucking White Tales, that'd be an interesting podcast to

819
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: do right there. And this is and they can't be

820
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: measured in quite anecdotal, but I feel like maybe we've

821
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: hit the climax already of like big buck media and

822
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: big culture. Like if you think back twenty years ago,

823
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: the only way that you were getting like anything around

824
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: White Tails, it's not the Internet. It was like DVDs

825
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 1: that were called Big Booners Volume ten were like on

826
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: the Outdoor Channel or through one of the magazines that

827
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: puts you know, Hunter and White Tails on the cover.

828
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: That's not so much the case anymore. There's a bunch

829
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 1: of different YouTube channels of amateurs um you know, like

830
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,399
Speaker 1: us that are out there and get jacked about killing

831
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 1: a public land here or uh, you know, are stoked

832
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: about killing hunter white tail with a gun whatever. Um.

833
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 1: But that like wasn't the case with white Tail media

834
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: maybe like twenty five years ago. And now that it's

835
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: not just like such a limit of options that it's magazines,

836
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 1: DVD ease or the outdoor channel, I feel like we're

837
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 1: coming down from that of just being kill giant ear

838
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 1: because there's there's so many more voices. Yes, in the space,

839
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: there's a diversity of options and a diversity of of

840
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: demand from people, Like people want to see stuff that's

841
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: closer to what they experience in the real world, and

842
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: there's definitely people that are starting to share them. I

843
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: think it's great. I think it's good that there's all

844
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: these different things out there. I think it's great to

845
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: show all the different ways of hunting and all the

846
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: different types of end results and and and uh validate

847
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: all of them. Like they're all great. If you want

848
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: to target mature bucks, go for it, that's awesome. There's

849
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: a lot of cool things about it. If you want

850
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: to go out there and shoot young bucks, go for it.

851
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: It's awesome. Do whatever. It's filling and legal. Um, it's

852
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: gonna be different for all of us. I just think

853
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: that I have nothing wrong with like being intrigued and

854
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: interested entireet mature bucks myself and talk to people that are.

855
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: They're like that, that's cool, it's fun, it's interesting. Certainly

856
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: nothing to be a shame like. There's certainly nothing we

857
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: have to apologize for. And I think the same thing

858
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:01,919
Speaker 1: is both ways. It's just like, you know, just making

859
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 1: sure people understand, especially for new people that are just

860
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 1: getting into it, that's feeling. Something I've always tried to do.

861
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: I've always tried to emphasize us within the Wired Hunt podcast.

862
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: Is like, you're gonna hear a guy today who's going

863
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,439
Speaker 1: to tell you about how he kills this year? And

864
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: is that interesting? Is that rare? Is that kind of crazy? Yeah?

865
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: And it it took some interesting strategies and tactics do

866
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: all those. That's interesting. But I just want to make

867
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: it clear that interest is not what it's all about.

868
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: This does not make you a lesser hunter or less

869
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: interesting hunter because you haven't done anything like that. I've

870
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: always tried to make sure that when new people get

871
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: into this community, they don't fall into this um assumption

872
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 1: that you have to be. Yeah, that's that extrinsic piece

873
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: of it, right, So they see the motive. Their motivation

874
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: is to kind of like be part of the club

875
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: or please the social media followers, you know. Or that's

876
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: where the mouse trap or the you know, the maze

877
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: of social media gets you know, we're dangling the the

878
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: thing that you want. We'll put you in a maze

879
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: to go and get it. Well, if you post just

880
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: what you want to post or just what makes you

881
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: feel good, that's not that's not gonna work here here

882
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: on social media. That's not how this works. You post

883
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 1: what other people want to see, right, and you post

884
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: the kind of hashtags that get uh, that gets you noticed.

885
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: You post the kind of things that gets you noticed.

886
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: And now and now you have the your Now you're

887
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: the mouse that found the cheese in the maze. But

888
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: if you decided to take another path, it's gonna be

889
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,479
Speaker 1: a whole lot longer until you get desired number above

890
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: your name on Instagram. It depends on what you want.

891
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: It depends on what you want. Some people, it's all

892
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: about trying to get those validators like a right, and

893
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: so there's lots of I think that's just it's just

894
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: it's a part of every community. I'm sure it's part

895
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: of the fashion community. It's part of just like it's

896
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 1: part of the hunting community. People people want to take shortcuts,

897
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 1: People desire to be known, and so it manifests itself

898
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: in weird ways, and then it manifests itself in a

899
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: weird way in hunting, and it has moving on shooting

900
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: immature bucks. We just kind of we took a we

901
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: took a hard left at you know, fetishizing trophy deer.

902
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: We had we did have to cover for lover likes

903
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: a little detour, a little detour. We covered that, and

904
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna go back to kind of the antithesis of

905
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: fetishizing a big old, big old buck, which is which

906
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: is shooting um young bucks. So it give us a

907
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: quick rundown. We had an article on the Old Mediator

908
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 1: dot com by Brodie Henderson about this um mark and

909
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: you give us just a quick rundown of of that

910
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 1: and then just kind of your perspective on shooting young

911
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,919
Speaker 1: bucks and kind of the issues at hand. Yeah, so

912
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: this article that Brody rowe kind of shared his personal

913
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: perspective on this issue, that being why do some people

914
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 1: get chastised for shooting young deer, small deer, et cetera.

915
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,439
Speaker 1: And I do think this is a symptom a little

916
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: bit of this conversation we've been having about the big

917
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: buck mania, about all this value of being applied to

918
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 1: big deer, big antlers so much that within the media

919
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: and then now in our culture, um, people are really

920
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: excited about big antlers. And what you get is sometimes

921
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 1: people that are super gung ho about that, super gung

922
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,479
Speaker 1: ho about their own personal goals, that they then put

923
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 1: that on other people. And so if they see someone

924
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: shoot a young deer, that is not gonna help them

925
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: reach their own goals because they want to see kill

926
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: big deer. They will then ridicule that person. And so

927
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: there's certainly some of that going on, which is a

928
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: big time bummer. I'm not happy about that kind of stuff.

929
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,919
Speaker 1: What is the reality it happens? So, so Brodie's article

930
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: kind of laid out, kind of laid out, um, you know,

931
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: a little bit, a very kind of high level overview

932
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: of how the culture has changed a little bit, how

933
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: much people focus on big deer, and then how there's

934
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: some of this ridicule. Now there's the folks that don't

935
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:44,760
Speaker 1: do that and how they get um chastised a bit. Um.

936
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: Now I have some qualms with Brodie's arcle a little

937
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: bit though, Um. I think he misrepresented a few things, um.

938
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 1: And so this is a little bit unfair to make

939
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: these stadiums without Brodie here to defend himself. He's an article.

940
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,919
Speaker 1: Is his article, yep, um, But he took a few

941
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: like quotes out of context. And he also applied some

942
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 1: blame to an organization, um, that mean, the Quality Deer

943
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 1: Management Association. So basically what's going on here is there's

944
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: two things. There is the fact that there was an organization,

945
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: the Quality Deer Management Association, which is a conservation organization,

946
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: to start decades ago that was one of the first

947
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: to wildly discuss how you could better manage wild deer

948
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:30,959
Speaker 1: herds to achieve older deer and bigger deer. They also

949
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: talked about you brought this up at the beginning, the

950
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: whole swath of different benefits to the overall ecosystem into

951
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: a deer head in general by doing this. But a

952
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: big part of that was like you did see a

953
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: bigger deer, older deer, and there's a whole bunch of

954
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: things to go with a different kind of hunting experience,

955
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:46,879
Speaker 1: different types of behavior. You see a lot of cool

956
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: things come out of it. But the Quality Deer Management

957
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: Association was like one of the first groups to really

958
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: spread that and talk about them. What happened, though, was

959
00:48:55,239 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: that their message and their management philosophy got hijacked by

960
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 1: a lot of people, and people took a lot of

961
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: things they talked about and then they just took bits

962
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: and parts of it though, and then put it on

963
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: the TV show and they started growing big deer, and

964
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: they started saying, I practice quality deer management, I shoot

965
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: big box, I shoot trophy Bucks. And over the last

966
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: two decades, that message of what the Quality Deer Management

967
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: Association was doing and talking about has been now deluded

968
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: into trophy management killing big deer, and the people like

969
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: to do that. And but people apply that part of

970
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: quality deer management to now generic quality deer management. So

971
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: what you get now is a backlash to that. So

972
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: when people hear about um trophy Bucks, people trying to

973
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: kill big deer, people that are mad at people for

974
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: shooting small deer, they like to point the finger at

975
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: the Qualitier Management Association say that this organization is spreading

976
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, and so Brody made put a

977
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: quote in there, um, a portion of a quote from

978
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 1: the Quality Deer Management website um along the lines of

979
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: the fact that, uh, you know, there's a quote where

980
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 1: the cutie Mayson says something like in the case where

981
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,879
Speaker 1: you know young children, new hunters are student a deer,

982
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: is perfectly acceptable for them to shoot young deer and

983
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And Brodie made the point that

984
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: he thought it was absurd to have a qualifier there.

985
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: That he said that it's absurd that the Quality Deer

986
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 1: Management Association is saying it's only okay for new hunters

987
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: or uh, young hunters to shoot young bucks. Brodie's assertion

988
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: was that everyone should feel fine and do that. You

989
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: should shoot whatever you want to shoot. Number one, agree

990
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: with them. I think that your goals as the hunters

991
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: should be, you know, related to nothing but your own

992
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: personal goals. You should not feel obligated to do anything else.

993
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 1: Differently that what filth fills you brings you enjoyment, etcetera, etcetera. Yeah,

994
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: let me read this quote real quicke from the from

995
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: the q D that he put in here. It's best

996
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: not to force other hunters to jump to advance levels

997
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: of buck management if they're not ready. They should also

998
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 1: be afforded the opportunity to start with younger bucks and

999
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,320
Speaker 1: work their way up. Cutie may even see just that

1000
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: young or new hunters be allowed to take any buck,

1001
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 1: even a yearly, if that's their desire. Yes, And so

1002
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 1: I think what happened? Then when I'm reading that, I'm

1003
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: thinking to the whole point the qualifier, like, why isn't

1004
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,720
Speaker 1: the QT main support of anyone shooting whatever they want? Um?

1005
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 1: I will say that Brodie did include a quote the

1006
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: end that did show the director of Conservation from the

1007
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: Quality Management Association specifically saying you know very clearly, hey,

1008
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 1: like we support anyone shooting whatever it is. You can

1009
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 1: read that quote too, Yeah, read to take a moment

1010
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: for to remember why we hunt. This is Kip Adams talking.

1011
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 1: Your reason may differ from your neighbors, So don't be

1012
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: critical of what he or she legally shoots or chooses

1013
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: to pass, and never apologize for what you shoot. YEA.

1014
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 1: So now coming back to the moral of my story

1015
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: and how there's been the Quality Management Association and then

1016
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: there's this version of QTM that's been hijacked by the

1017
00:51:54,200 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: trophy hunting mentality. There is um so I have studied

1018
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: quality deer management very like the real quality management has

1019
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: laid out by the founders of Quality Management Association and

1020
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: then science behind it and all the different parts of it,

1021
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: and there's much much more to it than just shooting

1022
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: huge deer and telling your neighborsition shoot small deer. The

1023
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: Quality Deer Management Association themselves, especially over the last five

1024
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: years or so, have been really clear and taking a

1025
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: lot of um putting a lot of time and energy

1026
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: behind trying to also make that clear too, because there's been,

1027
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 1: unfortunately some people that take this message and have bent

1028
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: it into their own little warped idea, and there are

1029
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: some people that are pretty nasty about it, and there

1030
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 1: are some people who do ridicule other people, and so

1031
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: there's definitely some bad apples out there. There's a lot

1032
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: of folks that go way too far with this. My

1033
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 1: issue is trying to put that on the Qualitier Management Association,

1034
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: which is a conservation organization that has been doing a

1035
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: lot of really good things for white tails and for

1036
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: deer hunters, and has made it really clear that the

1037
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: kind of quote that kept made there like that is

1038
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 1: that is the philosophy and the message I've heard from

1039
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,919
Speaker 1: them over and over again, like they share all sorts

1040
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 1: of different insights and strategies and things that you can

1041
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: do if you so desire to try to manage for

1042
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: older deer. But that quote that Broody pulled about the

1043
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: we would even say for young hunters, an adult or

1044
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 1: new hunters, that was in response to a specific question

1045
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: about someone who already wants to manage for older deer.

1046
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: So I think I think my point is that let's

1047
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: not rail on qum A saying that they are at

1048
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: fault here. I think it's it's uh a bastardization of

1049
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: some things they originally brought to the table that have

1050
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: now become the bad apple. And I think the name

1051
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 1: of the organization like tends to trip some people up

1052
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 1: who are not familiar with it because you hear like

1053
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: quality and management um. The optics of that are like

1054
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 1: raising big deer. That's what you think if it was

1055
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: called white Tails Unlimited or North American Deer. So as

1056
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: if you took the word deer on put habitat right

1057
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 1: would change, it would would totally change. So I think

1058
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,399
Speaker 1: people who aren't familiar familiar with q d m A

1059
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 1: kind of get tripped up over the name, and uh

1060
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 1: don't realize that they are all about like healthy herds. Um.

1061
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: If I'm ever working on a story about something biology

1062
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 1: related to dear, I reach out to them and they

1063
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: have the answer. I mean, those guys are great. If

1064
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: I'm working on something about why white tails are shedding early,

1065
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 1: they have the answer because it has to do with

1066
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 1: dear health. If I'm working on something about um some

1067
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: buck and I will that never shed is rack, I

1068
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: reach out to q d m A. They have the

1069
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 1: answer that kind of thing. So I think that, Yeah,

1070
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: the optics of the quality and the management which is

1071
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 1: aren't great for them if people aren't familiar with what

1072
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: they actually do. Yeah. No, I think that these are

1073
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: both really like really good points, and I'm probably falling

1074
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 1: into that camp a bunch, right. I've liked out of

1075
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 1: my whole life. But the q d m A thing

1076
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: was always something that it was problematic. Were not problematic

1077
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: because of what I like what I new of q

1078
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 1: d m A, but problematic about how people you know,

1079
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,319
Speaker 1: applied it talked about it. Right, So your point's well taken, Mark,

1080
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of people that are not you know,

1081
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: they're they're everything is second hand, right, You're seeing you know,

1082
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: their philosophies taken and twisted, and and that's what you're

1083
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: that's your experience. So that's that's a good point, and

1084
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 1: that's something that happens in way more than just this

1085
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 1: this instance. But that's a good point well taken. Yeah,

1086
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: and I think I would I would challenge anyone who

1087
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: has like a negative perception of that organization to go

1088
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: and actually like listen to a podcast that some of

1089
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:37,800
Speaker 1: those guys have been on with me, or to read

1090
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: like the tenets of their of their philosophies that are

1091
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: not just about shooting mature bucks. But there's a strong

1092
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 1: focus on hunter recruitment, on improving hunter access, on um

1093
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,919
Speaker 1: educating all hunters on things not just related to growing

1094
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 1: big bucks or playing food plots, but everything, Like they've

1095
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: got a lot of programs, especially now. One of their

1096
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: major goals for the next ten years, I think it

1097
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: is is all about really taking a strong stance of

1098
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: diversifying the group of hunters that they can help. And

1099
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 1: so they are very well aware of the perception that

1100
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: we're talking about, like they're well aware of that, and

1101
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: it's a big frustration for them internally, and so they're

1102
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 1: taking steps to really try to go make sure that

1103
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: people no, that's not the case. So there's cut may

1104
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 1: folks are going out there and they're doing habit at

1105
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: work on public land. They're trying to improve public land

1106
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: for people. There's a whole bunch of really cool programs

1107
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 1: they're doing right now to help introduce new adult onset

1108
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 1: hunters into this space by going to uh like food

1109
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: markets and stuff downtown and finding people that are interested

1110
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 1: in like local grown food and giving venison. Like here's

1111
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: like a tri sample of venison. This is great, you know,

1112
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: free range food that was harvested locally. If this tastes

1113
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: good to you, if you want to try to learn

1114
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: how to how to you know, start harvesting your own meat,

1115
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: we'd love to teach you and show you. So they're

1116
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 1: doing some really cool things that are benefiting all hunters,

1117
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 1: not just guys that want to shoot big box. And

1118
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: I just think that's like an important thing to know,

1119
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,320
Speaker 1: and that was even recognized, but I think it was

1120
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: like the New York Times maybe um that has no

1121
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: preconceived notions of what q d m A is. Uh,

1122
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: you know they had heard about that and they went

1123
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 1: and did an article about adult onset hunters and q

1124
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: dm A like helping introduce them, and so they are

1125
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 1: doing like a ton of good things. Yeah. Still like

1126
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: the general sentiment of Brodie's article agreed with, Like, no

1127
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,479
Speaker 1: one should be feeling pressure to to have hunting goals

1128
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: that are tied to somebody else's. You read you his

1129
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: closing paragraph to just sorry, keep interrupting. Um, there's nothing

1130
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: wrong with wanting to kill big bucks and wanting more

1131
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 1: of them around for a futurounting seasons. However, for all

1132
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: being honest, using these arguments to make a case against

1133
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: anyone who is happy with a young buck his race

1134
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: primarily on selfish motivations that should not apply to all hunters.

1135
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: Agree with that, and I think any rational hunter would

1136
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: agree with that, that you shoot what makes you happy

1137
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: as long as it's legal. Yeah, But I mean there

1138
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: are definitely some people out there who don't feel that

1139
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: way unfortunately, Like I know, there there are some people

1140
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: that are, and they're there. I would point to them

1141
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 1: as as hole in the boat pokers, These people that

1142
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: are like really nasty about this stuff and like so

1143
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 1: so intent on pushing their personal goals on everybody else.

1144
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 1: I think you're putting holes in the boat. Um. So

1145
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not okay with that. Um. I'm okay

1146
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: with Brody's arkle I ingredents, but he said there. My

1147
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 1: only issue is just I feel like he kind of

1148
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 1: made it look like Cutie May was the problem. Um.

1149
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: And that was the one thing that I would that

1150
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: make sense. I mean, you know, I've I've always found

1151
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: that when you look at this issue, that and I

1152
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: was a part of it. Um in Pennsylvania when I

1153
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 1: was growing up in um other places near where I

1154
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: grew up in Maryland, they just started putting in minimum

1155
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 1: point restrictions, right. I mean, I feel like that's an

1156
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: effective way to go about this if there is a

1157
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: management issue. Because when I and my growing up, if

1158
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: you saw anything that had spikes on it, he shot

1159
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: at and that's everybody. So opening the fe season on

1160
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: public on state ground. I mean there's more than one

1161
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 1: time where I had you know, bullets pretty close to me. Right.

1162
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 1: There's one time where I shot a buck that had

1163
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: three holes in it or two holes in it or

1164
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: something like that. You know, and so, and it was

1165
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: a forky, right, and so when stuff like that starts

1166
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: to become a prevalent, then maybe there is time to

1167
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: do something. I can't pretend to be some expert in that,

1168
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,439
Speaker 1: but I think minimum point restrictions are certainly something that

1169
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 1: sometimes could be like that gets that's like the the

1170
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: nasty debate on it right now is around aprs other

1171
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: point restrictions is kind of how people refer to them,

1172
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: and that is a case where we're getting some of

1173
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 1: this nastiness happening where there's a difference between like this

1174
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: could be a whole podcast itself. So I'm not sure

1175
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: we might go down this road right now we can

1176
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 1: briefly touch on. But it's it's a it's a weird

1177
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: quandary for me personally too, because like I personally would

1178
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 1: my personal goals would be more easily and I would

1179
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: enjoy things more more often in that specifically towards my

1180
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: own goals if APRS were in effect in the places

1181
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 1: I hunt, because having some kind of minimum point restriction

1182
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: and aniler point restriction does lead to more young bucks

1183
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 1: reaching older age classes, like It's been proven in many

1184
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 1: different cases. So can we just stop there our North

1185
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: American model of wildlife conservation says that are you know,

1186
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: animals are regulated and they're regulated by science and wildlife biology.

1187
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 1: So this isn't Let's let's be clear when when an

1188
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: a p R is put into effect, it's not put

1189
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 1: into effect to you know, by state legislatures, like it's

1190
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: not even tried to do that. Well, but I mean

1191
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 1: the folks in the state legislators, like it would be

1192
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: proposed by a wildlife biologist or a state game manager

1193
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 1: that believes that this is necessary for the health of

1194
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: the population. Is that So there's actually cases where hunter

1195
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 1: advocacy advocacy groups like people that actually just like hunters

1196
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: that really want there to be a p R s

1197
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 1: are actively Um We're like in Michigan, this is a

1198
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: huge thing and like I could like get crucified for

1199
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: coming out against it within my own state because people

1200
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: are so strongly for it, but then so strongly against it. Two,

1201
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 1: it's like a really hot item right now. Um, So

1202
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 1: there are people trying to get ballot in issues, and

1203
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 1: they're people showing up at NRC like National Resource Commission

1204
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:28,439
Speaker 1: meetings and pushing for the DINA to do this. And

1205
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: so there are possibilities of suddenly these things being proposed

1206
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 1: and put out there, not just because of biologists I

1207
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 1: thought this was the right thing to do, but because

1208
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 1: hunter advocacy groups are saying, hey, this is the right

1209
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 1: thing to do, and they're trying to show that there

1210
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: showing evidence for it, and there is evidence to show

1211
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: it is the right thing to do in many cases,

1212
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 1: and for example in Pennsylvania, this was something that came

1213
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 1: from the biologists originally saying, hey, this is the right

1214
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 1: thing to do to deal with our issues. And so

1215
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: that's a combination of both, well that's and then and

1216
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 1: then that to say, you know, foll up on the

1217
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 1: point I was just making. I think it's you know,

1218
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: when you're looking at local tune of populations, you go

1219
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 1: as the tune of fishermen. I mean, there's empirical evidence

1220
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 1: that they have that that biologists just don't have. Right,

1221
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 1: So there is some credence to hunter groups saying, look,

1222
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 1: we we are we're around these animals, we hunt them.

1223
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: There are less we got together said there are less

1224
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 1: quality or less in total population. Right. So that's not

1225
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: not to say that that's you know, totally um defunct

1226
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 1: way to go about this but at the end of

1227
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: the day, it has to be an ingredience with with

1228
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: state game biotists. And it comes down to you see

1229
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 1: this across Western states in different places, like many states,

1230
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: state wildife agencies have to make a decision between managing

1231
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 1: for opportunity or quality. So is this going to be

1232
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: a state where there's been lots and lots of deer

1233
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 1: so that you can go out there and you can

1234
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: shoot a deer tons of them, or do we manage

1235
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: for a more balanced quality quote unquote heard, which UM

1236
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: many people would argue is like the better choice from

1237
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 1: up pure science standpoint. UM. It also though, leads to

1238
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 1: a better situation from a big deer standpoint. So you

1239
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: get people coming to it from both sides. You've got

1240
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 1: people that want big deer and they're not really care

1241
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 1: about the other things, but they do like there are

1242
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: those people that really want the big deer, and so

1243
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: they really pushed for this. UM. So the issue then becomes,

1244
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 1: are we doing what we talked about in reverse where

1245
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 1: we're applying our personal goals if we're if it's if

1246
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 1: we're trying to make the point or the argument for

1247
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 1: outside of the science, if we're saying Hey, I want

1248
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 1: more mature bucks. I want to see more big deer.

1249
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 1: That would be fun. The things that happen outside in

1250
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 1: the woods when there's more mature excuse me, more mature bucks.

1251
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 1: There's a lot of different things that happen when you've

1252
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 1: get mature bucks in the population that I personally think

1253
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 1: are really exciting and great to see. Explain what those are,

1254
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 1: because I think for the most part, the voices that

1255
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 1: people here like pushing for a p r S are

1256
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 1: those who want like a cultural shift and just kill

1257
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: bigger deer. Uh, but not many people are aware of,

1258
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 1: like what the herd benefits are. So explain that. So

1259
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 1: so a few things. There's a few things, like like

1260
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 1: from a hunter standpoint, you would enjoy different experiences in

1261
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 1: the woods. For example, when you go from place like

1262
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 1: Michigan where they're relatively not many mature bucks, to a

1263
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 1: place like Iowa, where there are relatively higher numbers of

1264
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 1: mature bucks. When I first started hunting in Iowa, I

1265
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 1: never heard a buck run in the wild. I never

1266
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 1: had heard of snort we's in the wealth. All my

1267
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 1: experiences in Michigan, I've never seen bucks fight in the

1268
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: wild in Michigan, I've seen very little actually chasing like

1269
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: extreme running behavior. All these things are much rarer to

1270
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 1: see in an area, whether they or not, where there's

1271
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: not a relatively balanced herd because it's not as much competition,

1272
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 1: there's not as many mature bucks that are the ones

1273
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 1: who demonstrate that kind of behavior. So from a pure

1274
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 1: like wildlife hunting experience, having a balanced older age class,

1275
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 1: you get to see a lot of things that naturally

1276
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 1: happen in the white tailed world that you do not

1277
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: get to see in a place where there's no old. Dear,

1278
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: it's a very unnatural thing to be hunting in a

1279
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: stretch of landscape where there's fifteen females and five or

1280
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: six bucks and they're all one year old. That's not

1281
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 1: a natural thing in the world. But that's pretty that's

1282
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: the case in many states. So when you flip it

1283
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: around and you go to Iowa where all these are

1284
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: these mature bucks, you get to see and experience a

1285
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: lot of things that are natural and exciting as a hunter. Now,

1286
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 1: as far as benefits to the hurt itself, there are

1287
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 1: many benefits to um Harder to articulate without getting into

1288
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 1: a bunch of wonky science stuff, but damn science. But

1289
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 1: one one simple thing that is easy to point to.

1290
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 1: When you have older mature bucks, you've got a more

1291
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: natural rut. You don't never a rut that is tight.

1292
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 1: So by that, I mean you're gonna have a period

1293
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: of time when most females come into estra's and are

1294
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: ready to breed, and most of that breeding happens within

1295
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: that tight time window. That's gonna happen more often when

1296
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 1: you have a balanced age structure. When you have a

1297
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 1: very unbalanced age structure, you're gonna start to see situations

1298
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 1: where dolls will be bright over the course of a

1299
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 1: much longer period of time. When that happens when does

1300
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 1: are being bred from early October through late December, and

1301
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 1: you've got all those pregnant dose brought out of course

1302
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,439
Speaker 1: that time period in the spring, when these deers start

1303
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: giving birth, you've got fawns dropping over the course of

1304
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 1: a long period of time. So you've got fawns dropping

1305
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: really early, you've got fawns dropping really late. There's issues

1306
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 1: across the board with that. You get early drop fawonds,

1307
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 1: You're getting fawns hitting the ground when it's too cold,

1308
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 1: there's too much snow, so a lot of fauns time.

1309
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:27,439
Speaker 1: When you've got fawns that are getting dropped too late

1310
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 1: in the spring, you've got fawnds now they are gonna

1311
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 1: be too young by the time the next winter comes along,

1312
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: so they won't be able to be as healthy and

1313
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 1: as mature as they need to be to make it

1314
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 1: to the winter. And then secondly, when you have a

1315
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 1: bunch of fawns spread out over a long period of time,

1316
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: predators can very easily, over the course of two months

1317
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 1: or something kill the five funds that are here now

1318
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 1: and the five fonds that are here next week, and

1319
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: the five funds are here next week, and very easily

1320
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 1: hammer a fawn population. So this is so the opposite.

1321
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,760
Speaker 1: What actually happens in a balance hurt is predator swamping.

1322
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 1: Where Ellen, my hot tip off word or whatever is so.

1323
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: What happens in the natural, dear herd is that when

1324
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 1: you have mature animals, when you have a balanced, relatively

1325
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: natural herd, you're gonna get tight rut. The tight red

1326
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,520
Speaker 1: is gonna lead to a tight fon drop where all

1327
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 1: fonds or the vast majority of fonds will all drop

1328
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 1: within a tight window. So imagine how much harder it

1329
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 1: would be for a predator population to kill all of

1330
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 1: the let's just say, twenty fonds if they all dropped

1331
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:29,480
Speaker 1: within a five day window, versus how much more difficult

1332
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: or how much easier it would be for them to

1333
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 1: kill all those twenty fonds if it was spread over

1334
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 1: the course of two months. But by then, I mean like,

1335
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 1: OKAYO is not gonna kill twenty fonds in two days,

1336
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 1: because he's gonna have his one and that's gonna take

1337
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 1: him for a couple of days and then etcetera, etcetera.

1338
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 1: So there's a whole bunch of benefits like that that

1339
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 1: just then lead to, you know, like a trickled on effect.

1340
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:49,960
Speaker 1: It sounds like we need to get out of our

1341
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: own way here, Like in which one when you start

1342
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 1: to say that hunters are well personally, I'd love more

1343
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 1: big bucks to be around. Okay, great, that's not how

1344
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 1: it works. That's not how it's purported to work. At

1345
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 1: least there has to be more evidence, right, But it

1346
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:11,120
Speaker 1: sounds like what you're saying is there's more evidence suggest

1347
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 1: that your desire for big bucks aligns with the best

1348
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:17,759
Speaker 1: way to manage a deer herd. And you know another

1349
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 1: thing that a lot of people, don't, uh make a

1350
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 1: point about when you look at the bastardization of QTM

1351
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:26,679
Speaker 1: is a lot of people when it comes to QTM

1352
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,719
Speaker 1: that the folks who aren't really looking at the holistic

1353
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:33,719
Speaker 1: approach there and say past young bucks, shoot big bucks.

1354
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 1: But they forget a big part of actual quality deer

1355
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:39,839
Speaker 1: management is the fact that we are trying to manage

1356
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 1: a deer herd to the correct care and capacity to

1357
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 1: the habitat. It's a really important thing because if you

1358
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:47,799
Speaker 1: don't do that, there's too many deer for the habitat.

1359
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 1: You've got very unhealthy deer. You've got deer that are

1360
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 1: not you know, all sorts, I mean, the whole bunch.

1361
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 1: So many things that comes in, right, I mean, the

1362
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 1: economic thing comes in, where the more hunters we have,

1363
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 1: the more money we have to manage the wildlife. Right.

1364
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 1: So if we're saying you can only kill big bucks,

1365
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 1: you're likely going to have you're you're gonna have less hunters.

1366
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're telling young young kids, you guys

1367
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 1: sit here and wait for a big buck, it changes

1368
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 1: their experience. Right, So you have this conundrum that says

1369
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 1: you can't I mean, if we want to and it's

1370
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:18,760
Speaker 1: crossbows the same way too, Like you want to have

1371
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 1: more hunters, you would want to have crossbows allowed. I

1372
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 1: mean that's just to me. That's that's pretty common sense

1373
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 1: related related common sense. So you have that, but you

1374
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 1: also have how many people live in a state. Right,

1375
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 1: There's way more people that live in Michigan than live

1376
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 1: in Iowa. Um multiple times more. There's three eleven thousand

1377
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 1: bow hunters in Michigan compared to I think fifty seven thousand.

1378
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 1: A yeah, and so there I think there's there's millions

1379
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 1: of people. There's like seven million people more that live

1380
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 1: in Michigan than live in Iowa. Well, how I know that, um? So,

1381
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:55,559
Speaker 1: let me so and guarantee there are more dear in

1382
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 1: the state of Michigan than there are in the state

1383
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 1: of Iowa. They're all probably I don't I'm sure of that.

1384
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure of that. Um I don't know the exact

1385
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 1: numbers either, but I'm sure of that, and I'll look

1386
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 1: I can look it up here. But so you you

1387
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 1: have to understand the cohabitation elements and the economic elements

1388
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 1: and the variables for for how much land there are,

1389
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 1: how much caring capacity is there, and so I think

1390
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 1: boiling it down to like, I just want more Big

1391
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:25,679
Speaker 1: Bucks so I can have a better experience. It's like, look, man, great,

1392
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:27,720
Speaker 1: good for you, but that's not how this works. The

1393
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 1: democracy of wildlife doesn't work for you. That works for

1394
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: all of us. And that's how that's how this is.

1395
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 1: And so any advocacy group that says we're arguing for

1396
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:42,040
Speaker 1: this so we can have a better experience, is I

1397
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: think hurting the cause, which seems to be buttressed by

1398
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 1: the science, butchers by the wildlife management philosophy. No, the thing,

1399
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:51,599
Speaker 1: the cow that would be with us. Some of these

1400
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 1: organizations are pointing to the science. If you're pointing to

1401
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 1: the side, Yeah, yeah, I'm saying if if there's ever,

1402
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,679
Speaker 1: if anybody ever stands up and says, look, I'm in

1403
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 1: the woods and I'm seeing what big Bucks, and I

1404
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:04,719
Speaker 1: really would rather stay home, So please change the regulator

1405
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 1: put in an APR so I can have a better

1406
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:08,720
Speaker 1: experience with my kids, can have a better experience of

1407
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: more big box. Like, yeah, that's your value, that's your

1408
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 1: value proposition. That's not everybody. Yeah. The problem is that

1409
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 1: both of those two things are happen at the same time, right,

1410
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 1: Like the science supports in many cases, but then you

1411
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 1: also have the emotional argument that a lot of these

1412
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:22,640
Speaker 1: people have, which is what gave them the passion to

1413
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:25,120
Speaker 1: really want to push for the science because because it

1414
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:28,760
Speaker 1: is like the personal experience, Like let's not sit here

1415
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 1: and pretend like our experiences don't drive the choices that

1416
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 1: we make, Like, of course we want to have a

1417
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:36,799
Speaker 1: better hunting experience if that's something you love and whatnot.

1418
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 1: It's just how do you go about it and how

1419
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:41,559
Speaker 1: do you try to implement it? And um. The interesting

1420
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 1: thing is that I don't know the exact numbers, but

1421
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:46,600
Speaker 1: in I think in almost every case where the a

1422
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:48,800
Speaker 1: p R has been applied, whether it be in the

1423
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 1: northwest part of Michigan or in Pennsylvania other places I

1424
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 1: think Missouri to UM. Usually first it's very contentious, but

1425
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 1: like leading out to it's very contentious. After a few

1426
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 1: years of being around, satisfaction is like very high. So

1427
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:06,920
Speaker 1: usually people really like it, but there's still like there's

1428
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:09,519
Speaker 1: still a portion that doesn't. So the question is, then

1429
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 1: what's more important is it? Is it? If we're looking

1430
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:17,520
Speaker 1: at satisfaction, how a number one? How important hunter satisfaction

1431
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 1: versus just the pure science of it. And then number two,

1432
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 1: do you make your decision because sixty seven percent of

1433
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 1: folks are satisfied with that and you say, well a

1434
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 1: significant majority approves, or do you look at and say, well,

1435
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 1: but then we're leaving tent or whatever it is that

1436
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 1: aren't happy with it and really full under satisfaction. Right,

1437
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:38,960
Speaker 1: this is not how our conservation model works. It works

1438
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 1: on does the science and biologies say that this is

1439
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:44,160
Speaker 1: the best thing for the animal. But in Michigan they're

1440
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:47,000
Speaker 1: looking at hunter satisfaction to help make those decisions like

1441
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:50,720
Speaker 1: to be And again that gives back to the economics likely, right,

1442
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:52,600
Speaker 1: So if you said, like, we're we're upsetting all the

1443
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 1: hunters are not gonna come hunt anymore, we're the stake Again.

1444
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what the percentage is for Michigan,

1445
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:04,200
Speaker 1: but roughly sixty at sixty of um revenues from that

1446
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:07,760
Speaker 1: are coming into state game agencies are from hundred dollars, right,

1447
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 1: So I could see why they're considering that. I'm not

1448
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 1: the fun but but but the only real way to

1449
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 1: to weigh this out is to say, how do we

1450
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:18,600
Speaker 1: how do we best manage for how they heard of

1451
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:22,160
Speaker 1: animals here and a p rs aren't always like the

1452
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 1: answer because as far as big buck stakes states go

1453
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 1: out of the top ten like Boom and Crockett white

1454
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 1: Tail states, nine of them do not have any aprs.

1455
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 1: So it's not like it's mandatory that you haven't have

1456
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 1: an APR, or it's always going to turn you know,

1457
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:42,560
Speaker 1: Michigan into Iowa, whatever might be. But I think Mississippi

1458
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,840
Speaker 1: is a good example. They introduced aprs and within a

1459
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:48,680
Speaker 1: few years, like I think last year they had the

1460
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 1: highest percentage of mature bucks being three and a half

1461
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:54,200
Speaker 1: year olds being killed in the country in a big

1462
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:57,160
Speaker 1: reason where those aprs now, it's how hard to gauge,

1463
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 1: like how many hunts that room for people that we're

1464
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 1: out and otherwise would have shot at young deer whatever

1465
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:05,840
Speaker 1: that might be. But I think you made a good

1466
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 1: point that like at some point it becomes accepted and

1467
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:10,880
Speaker 1: everyone is more satisfied, Like a decade from now, our

1468
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 1: generation from now, people would be happier that those aprs are.

1469
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 1: They're no different than like if you had a lake

1470
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 1: with a bunch of walleye in it and there was

1471
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:24,640
Speaker 1: no regulations on take or size, and someone put a

1472
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 1: slot in you know, there'd be a bunch of pushback,

1473
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:30,439
Speaker 1: but down the road everyone will probably be more satisfied. Yeah.

1474
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a short and long term, but I

1475
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 1: mean it is a messy situation where you're when you're

1476
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:39,599
Speaker 1: relying on hundred dollars to manage the herd. Right, So

1477
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 1: now you've connected those two things which we have done

1478
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:44,920
Speaker 1: and too too great success. I mean, there's more white

1479
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 1: tailtier now than ever, so we can't complain about that.

1480
01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 1: But you'd say, like we've connected the hundred dollar to

1481
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 1: the management of the game or how we spend to

1482
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:59,120
Speaker 1: manage the game. So you've connected those two things, you know,

1483
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 1: without understanding impacts of those. Right. So if it's all

1484
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 1: about you know, if it's all about healthy herds, how

1485
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 1: are you gonna pay for him? Well, hunters gotta be happy,

1486
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:08,840
Speaker 1: they gotta be coming at the gates, man, they're gonna

1487
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:12,680
Speaker 1: be going through the turnstiles. Um. So there's there's no

1488
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:16,559
Speaker 1: wonder it's contentious. And what's even making things more difficult

1489
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:19,479
Speaker 1: though now, is that there's become such a disconnect in

1490
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:23,440
Speaker 1: many states between that agency and the hunter population and

1491
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:26,800
Speaker 1: animosity in many cases that now the hunters don't even

1492
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 1: believe that the wildlife agencies have their best interests or

1493
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 1: the herd's best interest in mind anymore. So that's it's

1494
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 1: becoming a thin Michigan between a p R S and

1495
01:15:34,479 --> 01:15:36,720
Speaker 1: then this whole C deputy thing. You're seeing this all

1496
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 1: across the country, a lot of people all sorts of

1497
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories now these days about how these agencies are

1498
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:47,719
Speaker 1: in cahoots with such companies. It's just a money grab

1499
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 1: and you're hearing a lot of really crazy stuff. So

1500
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:53,040
Speaker 1: an agency can't even make the case for a change

1501
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:55,599
Speaker 1: like this based off pier science because hunters won't even

1502
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 1: believe it. Though. That's that's tough man, that's you know,

1503
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 1: that's a honor the thing think about. But I appreciate

1504
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:04,599
Speaker 1: the breakdown of that because I think it's something everybody

1505
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 1: should understand. You know that we were we're so entangled

1506
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:15,640
Speaker 1: with this process as hunters. We fund it mostly at

1507
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 1: least partially funded. Um it impacts all of us. We

1508
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 1: want to have these broad, sweeping statements, like you said,

1509
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 1: we want everybody to be able to have the greatest

1510
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 1: time they want to have. That's real, warm and fuzzy,

1511
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 1: but sometimes that doesn't stand up to the reality of

1512
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 1: what's happening with cohabitation, the economy, and healthy wildlife populations

1513
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 1: carrying cassy. So sometimes not everybody can have the warm

1514
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:39,599
Speaker 1: and fuzzy time outdoors and just go have fun. Sometimes

1515
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 1: you have to make sacrifices, UM, for the future of

1516
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 1: of that we say all this, I think it's important

1517
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 1: to like set back and you know, recognize that we're

1518
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 1: in the golden age of white tail hunting. Like you said,

1519
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 1: there were more white tails than ever before. UM. There

1520
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:59,519
Speaker 1: were more mature bucks killed than ever before. There were

1521
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:04,479
Speaker 1: less yearling deer killed than ever before. UM. As far

1522
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:09,439
Speaker 1: as like ratio, yes, yeah, I think it's of three

1523
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 1: and a half year olds made up the deer harvested

1524
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 1: in UM. Whereas that that's the highest it's ever been. Lowest, Look,

1525
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:20,960
Speaker 1: no mature bucks. There were more mature bucks than ever

1526
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 1: before killed. Sorry I thought you were from confusing you

1527
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:27,679
Speaker 1: and myself and numbers. You're right. So of the total harvest,

1528
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:30,800
Speaker 1: it's on power of the lowest it's ever been. As

1529
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 1: far as what percentage one and a half year olds

1530
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:34,600
Speaker 1: to make of the over harvest, and it's at the

1531
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:37,680
Speaker 1: highest three and a half are older have ever made up. Yeah, So,

1532
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:40,280
Speaker 1: like we discussed all this and it's important to recognize

1533
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:44,519
Speaker 1: that this is the best that deer hunting has ever been. Yeah, yep,

1534
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:47,320
Speaker 1: we'll end on that the best that deer hunting has

1535
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:51,679
Speaker 1: ever been. Well, maybe we'll title the podcast that. Thank

1536
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:56,240
Speaker 1: you boys, thank you, Thanks. That's it. That's all another

1537
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:59,360
Speaker 1: episode of The Hunting Collective in the books. Thanks to

1538
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:01,560
Speaker 1: Mark and spend there for sitting down. I feel like

1539
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 1: these dudes are we coming huge voices in the white

1540
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:10,960
Speaker 1: tail space. Leaders in that space, voices for reason, guys

1541
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 1: willing obviously tackle some tough topics. Big Bucks little Bucks

1542
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 1: lover likes things like that that interests me. So thanks

1543
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:22,280
Speaker 1: for entertaining me voice, and we'll have you back on

1544
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 1: real soon. One other big thing to get to here

1545
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 1: is that we're gonna be launching a new format the

1546
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:31,479
Speaker 1: next episode of The Hunting Collectives. This format will allow

1547
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:34,040
Speaker 1: for a little more timeliness. We're gonna have a segment

1548
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: of the show before the interview portion, where me and

1549
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:40,040
Speaker 1: a guest from met Eater talk about what's going on

1550
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 1: in our world news and events, answer questions from you

1551
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 1: guys from previous episodes, and talk about what's generally Aico said,

1552
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:49,719
Speaker 1: what's going on in our world. Then we're gonna follow

1553
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:52,120
Speaker 1: that up with a prerecorded interview, and then we're gonna

1554
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:55,160
Speaker 1: have some new segments, some pretty cool new segments. One

1555
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:57,519
Speaker 1: of those you might have heard in the previous podcast

1556
01:18:57,520 --> 01:18:59,639
Speaker 1: as I tested amount, but one of them is called

1557
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:03,080
Speaker 1: hots by Cool Dude, Cool Lady. And that's where I

1558
01:19:03,080 --> 01:19:05,040
Speaker 1: try to convince all these wonderful guests to give me

1559
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:08,559
Speaker 1: their favorite hunting spots and share them with all of you. See,

1560
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 1: that's a public service, that's what that really is. We

1561
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:13,880
Speaker 1: got some other things called where people are gonna share

1562
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:17,479
Speaker 1: with us u near death experiences in the outdoors, and

1563
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:19,600
Speaker 1: a bunch of other cool ideas that we're gonna be

1564
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 1: bringing back consistently on the show. We'll have some new music,

1565
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:25,559
Speaker 1: hopefully you can tune in next week to hear that

1566
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:29,559
Speaker 1: new music, and just a new way of putting together

1567
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:32,919
Speaker 1: our show. So hopefully it's a it's a better program

1568
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:36,479
Speaker 1: for you people. Everyone that has downloaded, we're at about

1569
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:40,519
Speaker 1: a million downloads thus far in fifty four episodes, So

1570
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:42,840
Speaker 1: thank you so much to everybody that has downloaded and

1571
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,200
Speaker 1: listened and spend all your time with us. It means

1572
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:48,200
Speaker 1: the world to me. I can't thank you all enough,

1573
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:50,840
Speaker 1: and it's just important for me to continue to get

1574
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:54,040
Speaker 1: better with this program. So with all that being said,

1575
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 1: sending your feedback. Hit me up with the d MS

1576
01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:02,679
Speaker 1: on Instagram. Email me, tell me what you think about

1577
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:05,800
Speaker 1: this new format, give us your feedback. We're going to

1578
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:08,280
Speaker 1: do our best to continue to get better, to always

1579
01:20:08,360 --> 01:20:11,840
Speaker 1: change and always adapt to what's going on in our world,

1580
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:15,400
Speaker 1: what's going on in the podcast world. So hopefully you

1581
01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:21,280
Speaker 1: tune in next Tuesday, April two, you're gonna hear from

1582
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:23,800
Speaker 1: Cameron Haynes on the Adam Green Troop poach in case.

1583
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:27,320
Speaker 1: I talked about that case with Ryan Callahan. We talked

1584
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:33,120
Speaker 1: about Ryan Callahan's biggest surprise of his media life, surprise

1585
01:20:33,160 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 1: announcement from Ryan Callahan, and we're gonna talk about his

1586
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:41,040
Speaker 1: love life and a little show called The Bachelor as well.

1587
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:42,880
Speaker 1: So a lot of cool stuff coming up next week.

1588
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:44,600
Speaker 1: Please tune in and we'll see you then for the

1589
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 1: new format of The Hunting Plex. Bye.