1 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: We have breaking news tonight, but I'm not going to 2 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: be the one to tell you. I'm going to let 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: our special guests do that. And I want to tell 4 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: you it was twenty seventeen that I reached out to 5 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: the brother of a murder victim because I thought there 6 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: might just be a possibility that we could get DNA 7 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: from the crime scene. Specifically, I thought maybe the victim's clothing. 8 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: I reached out to him and he called me back immediately, 9 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: and as we were talking, I told him my idea. 10 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: My idea was to use the MBAT to see if 11 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: we could extract DNA from the victim's clothing. He said, 12 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: I've never heard of that. What is it? Very matter 13 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: of fact, very business. So I was like, okay, I'll 14 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: explain it the best way that I can. So I did, 15 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: and I told him about Jared Bradley, and he said, well, 16 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: do you think I could get in touch with him? 17 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: And I said, of course, So I shared Jared's number. Now, 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: a lot of times, weeks or months might go by 19 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: before there's any additional information. Not with this guy. Within 20 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: two days, I get a text message of a photograph 21 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: where he's standing next to the VAT and Jared at 22 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: a law enforcement training and I like, who is this guy? 23 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: A full operational, just wildfire of an advocate for his sister. 24 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,559 Speaker 1: The brother that I am talking about was the one 25 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: and only Bill Thomas. And Bill is the brother of 26 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: Kathy Thomas, one of the first victims of the Colonial 27 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: Parkway murders along with her girlfriend Rebecca. Welcome to Zone seven. 28 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: What have you been doing the last twenty four hours? 29 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 2: Well, along with my podcast partner Kristin Dilley, we have 30 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: just been dealing with a breaking news situation in the 31 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: Colonial Parkway murders. The FBI, Virginia State Police, and the Hampton, 32 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 2: Virginia Police Departments held a press conference to announce that 33 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: they had identified an offender in at least one of 34 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: the four doublah homicides in the Colonial Parkway murders, the 35 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: murder of Robin Edwards and David Nobling, as well as 36 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: the murder of a woman that I think Kristin and 37 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 2: I had never heard of her before. Her name is 38 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 2: Teresa Howell. So Kristin and I have been dealing with 39 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 2: this crazy situation where after all these years thirty seven 40 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 2: years and counting, looking for answers in the Colonial Park 41 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: and murders. Suddenly we're starting to get some answers. 42 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: Now y'all had a chance to meet Bill, you've heard 43 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: him speak, or you're already a fan of his podcast, 44 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder. But you know he doesn't do this alone. 45 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 1: He has a partner in every sense of the word 46 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: when it comes to advocating for justice, fighting for these families, 47 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: researching for answers. And I want to just welcome Kristin Dilly. 48 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: You're a teacher, you're an advocate, you're an avid runner, 49 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: and you're a co host of the podcast Mind Over Murder. 50 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: And I want to say something about the two of 51 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: y'all two because your partnership is extraordinary to me because 52 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: it is based on advocating for Kathy and the other 53 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: victims in the other families, but it's also one of 54 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: deep friendship. 55 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 3: It definitely is. I was thinking about this the other 56 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 3: day and Bill is one of the only people in 57 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 3: my life other than my parents and my significant other, 58 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 3: that I talk to every single day. And in fact, 59 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 3: it's kind of a weird day when I don't talk 60 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 3: to Bill. 61 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes I feel like if we haven't talked, I 62 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: feel guilty somehow like, shouldn't we talked about something something, 63 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: because it's pretty close to seven days a week and 64 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: our respective partners seem to put up with it, so 65 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: I guess that's okay. 66 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: Well, they know the good work you're doing, and they 67 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: know the honesty of what your relationship is. I mean, 68 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: nobody would do anything but champion it. 69 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 2: Well. Thanks, And in a way, Kristin and I are 70 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 2: very different. We're from different parts of the country, we 71 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: have different backgrounds, we're twenty five years apart in age. 72 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: I'm the older of the two. You probably could have 73 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 2: figured that one out there. 74 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you, though it works. It's just 75 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: that chemistry thing. You can't invent it. It just is 76 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: and you've got it and it's remarkable. But I'm going 77 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: to tell you something, Kristian. When I got your message yesterday, 78 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: I was at work. I was in the middle of 79 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff. But I'm like, wait a minute, 80 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: what am I reading? Like? I literally had to read 81 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: it a couple of times before I could even respond. 82 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: And you know, it's one of those things where you 83 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 1: want something to happen so bad. And I know, even 84 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: back in twenty seventeen, I thought all of these cases 85 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: were solvable. I thought it was going to take the 86 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: right person, the right test, the right forensic invention. But 87 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: I just knew in my gut it was solvable all 88 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: of them. And here you go after all this time. 89 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 3: I think the best terminology that I have for what 90 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 3: we've gone through in the last twenty four hours with 91 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 3: this breaking news is emotional whiplash. I have never felt 92 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 3: so exhilarated but also so exhausted at the same time. 93 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: It has been a rollercoaster of the twenty four hours. Bill, 94 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: How are you holding up well? 95 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: I feel the same way as Kristen describes. Now, keep 96 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 2: in mind, we have phenomenal news for two of our families. 97 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 2: The Edward family and the Nobling family got the news 98 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 2: that their loved ones, Robin and David, their case had 99 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 2: been solved. And then we heard about this additional murder 100 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: from nineteen eighty nine, This lovely young woman named Teresa 101 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: Howell was murdered by the same man. On the one hand, 102 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: you're getting good news, but then you've also got six 103 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 2: other families in the Colonial Parkway murders that have not 104 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 2: received the same news. Now, don't get me wrong, We're 105 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: thrilled for these families, and we've all worked together, as 106 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: Kristin knows, to collectively use our power as people and 107 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: advocates and families who've lost loved ones to work together 108 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 2: and show support for one another. But while we're talking here, 109 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 2: you know, here we are living in this multi platform world. 110 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: My screen is blowing up with messages from people congratulating us, 111 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: expressing support, but they're also saying, is there any word 112 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: on the other Colonial Parkway murders? And at this point 113 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: we don't have any answers there. So it's a real 114 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: mixed bag of feelings because you're so excited for three families, 115 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: and then you're part of a group of now six 116 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 2: other families that don't yet have those kind of answers. 117 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: So it's a real kind of whirlwind of emotion. 118 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: The first time I ever talked to you, you talked 119 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: so lovingly about Kathy. She was only twenty seven. She 120 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: was one of those tomboy type of sisters. Y'all had 121 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: a great time with all those brothers in her and 122 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: she graduated from the Naval Academy. You know, she was impressive. 123 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: She was to me one of those folks that anybody 124 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: should admire for what she had already accomplished so young, 125 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: and you think, yes, I'm going to advocate for her 126 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: and I'm going to fight for her. But Bill, you 127 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: basically became the leader of what we all consider the 128 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: Parkway murders family. I mean, you're the spokesperson, You're the 129 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: person that we all know. And yes, of course we're thrilled. 130 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: We are thrilled with any answer, but it's not Kathy's 131 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: just as yet, and that kind of you know, leaves 132 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,239 Speaker 1: it where we're celebrating but not completely. 133 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would say to Kristin earlier today while 134 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: we were recording Mind Over Murder, I don't think there's 135 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 2: a section at the card store where you can go 136 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: and buy a card that says congratulations on finding out 137 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 2: who killed your loved one. And it's one of those 138 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 2: things that all you can really say to the Edwards 139 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 2: and no Bling family. And it's funny. The FBI asked 140 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 2: me the other day would I be willing to talk 141 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: to the Howell family. This was a case we were 142 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 2: not familiar with Teresa's case, and I said, of course, 143 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: I said yes, But you know, this is the club 144 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 2: that no one wants to be asked to join. To 145 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: quote the great John Walsh, other than saying we're thinking 146 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 2: of you, I don't really know if you can regard 147 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 2: this as good news. I guess answers are better than 148 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 2: no answers. I'd be curious what Kristen said, but we 149 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 2: were both kind of of laughing through tears while recording 150 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: our own podcast earlier about the fact that you can't 151 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: really go to the card store and tay, congratulations. It 152 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 2: doesn't quite feel like that. 153 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, you know, and it is. It's I 154 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 3: guess bittersweet is really the only adjective that I can 155 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 3: possibly think of that's going to work, because, just as 156 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 3: you said, Mac, we are so thrilled for the Edwards 157 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 3: and the Noveline and the Howell families. This is amazing, 158 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 3: but there are still families out there who do not 159 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 3: have answers. And as much as I'm absolutely amped and 160 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 3: jazzed and every other enthusiastic word that you can think 161 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 3: of that we actually have a solve in this case, 162 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 3: there's still more work to be done, and so the 163 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 3: jazzedness of it all kind of has to be tempered with. Okay, 164 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 3: we still have to move forward. We still have stuff 165 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 3: that we need to do. And I know that tomorrow morning, 166 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 3: when I'm not as tired, I'll feel a little more, 167 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 3: you know, prepared to be able to lay out, Okay, 168 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 3: here's what I think we need to do moving forward. 169 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 3: Right now, the jazz is still there, but the tired 170 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 3: is sinking in there too. It really is just a 171 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 3: It really is just a whirlwind of things. 172 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: Like Bill said, my prediction is your whirlwind is about 173 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: to get ramped up. There's going to be more case connections. 174 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: There's going to be more victims that we don't know 175 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: yet that are going to be connected. And any step 176 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: is a step forward. So now that we have a solved, 177 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: we're that much closer to the answers for all the 178 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: other families that I also believe. 179 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 2: I think you're right, And of course, to get into 180 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 2: a little bit of case detail. Alan Wade Wilmer w 181 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: I L M R. I always have to remind myself 182 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 2: to pronounce it. He's Alan Wade Wilmer senior. There's also 183 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 2: a junior who was eight years old at the time 184 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 2: of the murders and obviously was just a little kid 185 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 2: back then. I think he is going to be identified 186 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 2: in other cases he was a leading suspect in the 187 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: disappearance of Keith Call and Cassandra Haley in nineteen eighty eight. 188 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 2: They are considered part of the Colonial Parkway murders. They 189 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 2: went missing in the same place. This is all over 190 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: a three year period where we have these eight young 191 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 2: people who are murdered, four couples. And since Allan Wade 192 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 2: Wilmer Senior was the leading suspect in the disappearance of 193 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,439 Speaker 2: Keith Call and Cassandra Haley, we're hoping that our law 194 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 2: enforcement investigators will be able to make a determination because 195 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 2: we are highly confident he's responsible for their disappearance and 196 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: likely And you know, I just. 197 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: Have to interject because it comes up all the time, 198 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: and I tell young detectives nine times out of ten 199 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: their name is in that case file. If you take 200 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: every single name and put them in a column, everyone 201 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 1: every name, rule them out again, and if there's anybody 202 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: you cannot legitimately rule out, then they go in your 203 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: suspect pool. They had him in twenty eighteen. On paper, 204 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: he should have been on their list every day. 205 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: Well, this is a case that fits that precisely. Because 206 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 2: our investigators have been working this case hard and they 207 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 2: went back and revisited this particular suspect starting in about 208 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 2: twenty twenty. And our case agent has been working this case. 209 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 2: And of course, remember she comes along at a time 210 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 2: when the murders had happened. You know, she's been on 211 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 2: this case for ten years, but the murders had happened 212 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 2: twenty seven years prior to her arrival with the FBI. 213 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 2: But she's been working this case for a decade and 214 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 2: a couple of years ago that she really began focusing 215 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: on this guy again, just like she has with the 216 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty persons who've been named as suspects 217 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 2: or persons of interest in the Colonial Parkway murders. 218 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: Tell us what happened Columbus Day weekend nineteen eighty six 219 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: at the Cheatham Annex Overlook in Williamsburg. What happened exactly to. 220 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 2: Kathy, Well, my sister Kathy Thomas and her girlfriend, Rebecca 221 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: Dowski were we're dating. Now. Remember this is in the 222 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 2: nineteen eighties in Virginia. It's a very conservative area. It's 223 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: a big military area. There are tens of thousands of 224 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 2: military personnel and the CIA is just down the road, 225 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: I mean literally on the same road, the Colonial Parkway. 226 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 2: So this is a very conservative time. And my sister 227 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 2: Kathy Thomas, who's a Naval Academy graduate, which actually could 228 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 2: prove to be significant in the further investigation because there 229 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 2: may be a Navy tie in to my sister's murder. 230 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: She and her girlfriend, Rebecca Dowski, who was a senior 231 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: at the College of William and Mary, were out on 232 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 2: this Thursday evening, kind of kicking off the weekend. They 233 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 2: were going to be spending the Columbus Day weekend apart, 234 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: and so they decided to get together and have dinner 235 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 2: after Becky and another friend were working on a computer 236 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: assignment for a class they were taking at William and Mary. 237 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 2: After completing the assignment, there were four friends, two lesbian couples. 238 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 2: When they had completed their tasks, Kathy and Becky decided 239 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: they were going to go out and grab a bite 240 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: to eat. Now your options for late night dining. It 241 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: was probably maybe eight o'clock that evening in small town Williamsburg, Virginia, 242 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: which is where Kristin Dilly lives. It's gotten a lot 243 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 2: bigger and more sophisticated in the last thirty some years. 244 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 4: Marginally so Becky decided to go out to get something 245 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 4: to eat, so they spun off in my sister's nineteen 246 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 4: eighty one Honda Civic, little small two door. 247 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 2: My sister Kathy was into sporty small cars. They went 248 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 2: out to eat were not one hundred percent certain where 249 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 2: they went, but based on the autopsy afterwards, they think 250 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 2: that they either stopped and had Hamburgers or might have 251 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 2: gone to a place that served like tacos or something 252 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 2: like that because they had ground beef and lettuce in 253 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: their systems. After grabbing a bike to eat, they went 254 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 2: to this beautiful roadway known as the Colonial Parkway. It's 255 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 2: a twenty three mile long ribbon of National parkland. It's 256 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 2: sometimes only a couple of hundred yards wide. It was 257 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 2: built by the National Park Service to connect the historic 258 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 2: sites of Jamestown, Yorktown, and Colonial Williamsburg. A lot of 259 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 2: folks that go up in that region remember the Colonial 260 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 2: Parkway because they went to those historic sites on class 261 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 2: trips and that sort of thing. You see a lot 262 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 2: of young people there at the historic sites in the evening. Though. 263 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 2: The Colonial Parkway that connects to these locations is extremely quiet. 264 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 2: It was built with no lights, no traffic signs, essentially 265 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: no intersections and no street lights whatsoever, and it runs 266 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 2: along the York and James Rivers. It's quite beautiful. Something 267 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 2: transpired on the Colonial Parkway that evening in October to 268 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 2: Kathy and Becky. They're not one hundred percent certain what happened, 269 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 2: but it appears that someone rolled up on them while 270 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 2: they were parked, probably looking out over the water at 271 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: the York River. And there's a naval weapons station nearby 272 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 2: and another military location called Cheata Mannex, which is where 273 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 2: they load US Navy ships with high explosives, including nuclear weapons, 274 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 2: all fenced in, but you can see it across the water. 275 00:18:54,400 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 2: And something happened, they think, on Thursday evening. It appears 276 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: that they were attacked, strangled with rope, and then their 277 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 2: throats were cut with a sharp knife. My sister was 278 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 2: essentially decapitated. They were cut almost from ear to ear, 279 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,719 Speaker 2: and then their bodies were loaded into my sister's nineteen 280 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 2: eighty one Honda Civic with Kathy in the in the 281 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 2: what we used to call the way back when we 282 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 2: were kids, the trunk area, which is quite small. This 283 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 2: is and remember Hondas were even smaller than they are 284 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:41,239 Speaker 2: now Becky's body was placed in the backseat on the 285 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 2: diagonal as sort of a final insult to injury, The 286 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:52,719 Speaker 2: offender or offender's plural poured diesel fuel over the car 287 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 2: and the bodies and made an attempt to set the 288 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 2: car on fire. It appears, but if you know anything 289 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 2: about diesel fuel, and I didn't until the Colonial Parkway murders, 290 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 2: diesel fuel won't light with a match. It requires a 291 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 2: higher degree of heat and usually compression to get diesel 292 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 2: fuel to light. So, finally, failing to set the car 293 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 2: on fire, the offender or offenders pushed the car over 294 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 2: an embankment along the York River, so that the car 295 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 2: rolled down from a grassy parking area where they'd been 296 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 2: looking out at the water perhaps, and the car rolled 297 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: down towards the surface of the York River, so it would 298 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 2: be about fifteen feet or so, and it got caught 299 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 2: in underbrush, so it did not make it all the 300 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 2: way to the water, but it did obscure your view 301 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 2: of the car, so that the Honda's trunk area the 302 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 2: hatchback was not really visible from the road the Colonial Parkway, 303 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 2: So that resulted in a situation where they think the 304 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 2: murders took place on Thursday evening. The bodies were not 305 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 2: discovered until Sunday afternoon when a passerby sometimes they say 306 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 2: jogger or walker, who was closer to the surface of 307 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 2: the water spotted the car and then he called it in. 308 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 2: Remember this is before cell phones. He went to a payphone, 309 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 2: probably at the visitors station, and called in what he 310 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 2: thought was a traffic accident, that they had accidentally rolled 311 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 2: over the edge. And the first person on scene was 312 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 2: a National Park Service ranger who, again, thinking the car 313 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 2: had rolled over the edge, he wasn't able to open 314 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 2: the doors. He shattered the back window of the Honda 315 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 2: Civic with probably his baton, and that covered the bodies 316 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 2: with last but it did allow him to look into 317 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 2: the car, you know, angled down the hill, and he 318 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 2: quickly determined this isn't a traffic accident. These two women 319 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 2: have been murdered, and at that point the National Park 320 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 2: Service police were informed and park rangers began the investigation, 321 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 2: and then the investigation was ultimately taken over by the FBI, 322 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 2: because if you die in a National park, it's an 323 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 2: FBI case from day one. 324 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,479 Speaker 1: If you are going to roll up on somebody and 325 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: you just want to kill two people. Some things that 326 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: were done there wasn't necessary to accomplish that. And one 327 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: is both of the victims had rope burns on their 328 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: wrist and their neck. Bill already mentioned the diesel again, 329 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 1: what is that about. You don't need it unless you're 330 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: trying to destroy evidence because it's going to come back 331 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: to you, or you want to do moreamage just to 332 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: be torturous. But those to me are the two things. 333 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: So arson is almost always to cover up another type 334 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: of crime. They weren't sexually assaulted, they were completely dressed, 335 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: their persons were in the car, money was in their purse, 336 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: So those two things are out money, sex, revenge. So 337 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: we're left with revenge. 338 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 2: Right, And there's one thing worth adding to mac, which 339 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 2: is I don't think we might have used the expression 340 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 2: hate crime back then. We do now, but a lot 341 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 2: of people have said to us, including the investigators FBI 342 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 2: and the Virginia State Police and National Park Service all 343 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 2: participated in the investigation, together with local law enforcement for 344 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 2: York from York County. The idea that this could have 345 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 2: been a hate crime is definitely part of that mix. 346 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: So let's just say the killer from a distance, thought 347 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: it was a man and a woman. Kathy had shorter, 348 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: dark hair, Rebecca had long, beautiful red hair. Maybe he 349 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: thought it was a man and a woman, and when 350 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: he got closer and it was two women, maybe that's 351 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: when he flipped. And that's when the rope came out, 352 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: and the knife came out, and the other tortuous stuff 353 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: came out. Because with David and Robin, they were shot 354 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: at point blank range. That person set out to kill 355 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: two people. They did that. That was it, he was done, 356 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: he left. That's not what happened with Kathy and Rebecca. 357 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: Anytime I have a situation where I've got a double 358 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: homicide and one victim was treated differently, I cannot ignore that. 359 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: Agreed. There's one other thing mentioning in the Robin Edwards 360 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 2: David Nobling attack. It appears that Robin Edwards was sexually assaulted. Well, 361 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 2: all they knew for sure since their bodies have been 362 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 2: dumped in the river, was that someone had had sex 363 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 2: with Robin Edwards, and we sent forensic testing, and thank 364 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 2: god for advancements in DNA testing, they had received a 365 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 2: sexual Assault Hit Initiative grant, a SAKI grant. I know 366 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 2: Mack you know about. 367 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: Those sure absolutely. 368 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 2: They had gone back and retested the seamen found inside 369 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 2: Robin Edward's body, and they had not ever been able 370 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 2: to get a profile from it in the past, and 371 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 2: thank god, they were able to finally get a workable 372 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 2: DNA profile and that is one of the things that 373 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 2: led to the identification of this offender. Alan Wade Wilmer, Sr. 374 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: I just want to tell everybody what SAKE stands for 375 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: is Sexual Assault Kit Initiative. So if there's a police 376 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: department that's got secial assault kits from the eighties, nineties, 377 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: early two thousands that have never been tested, they want 378 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 1: them to be tested immediately. So that's one thing that 379 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: that task force does. So here's what I want to 380 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: know for both of you. What do you think the 381 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: next steps are for y'all and law enforcement? 382 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 3: We want to make sure that everybody has a lot 383 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 3: of information about the suspects vehicle and watercraft because they're 384 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 3: very distinctive, and so we are going to make sure 385 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 3: that we put up a lot of information provided from 386 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 3: the FBI that was given in the press kit for 387 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 3: the briefing of pictures of this suspect of various age 388 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 3: progression photos. There's also photos of his very distinctive blue 389 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty six Dodge Fargo truck with the personal license 390 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 3: plate em RAW, and photos of his wooden, custom built boat, 391 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 3: the Denny Wade. We're going to put all of those 392 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 3: up on our social media pages, and we're going to 393 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 3: encourage everyone who may ever have worked with this guy, 394 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 3: hunted with this guy, entertained with this guy, gone to 395 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 3: bars with this guy. We're going to encourage everybody who 396 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 3: may know him to please give any information possible to 397 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 3: the FBI or the Virginia State Police, because it is 398 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 3: imperative that they learn everything possible about this person so 399 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 3: that they can figure out where he might have been 400 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 3: hunting his victims and whether or not there are any 401 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 3: other people he came in contact with. 402 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 2: This offender. Wilmer is a what they call a waterman 403 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 2: in Virginia, again, an expression I wasn't familiar with until 404 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 2: the Colonial Parkway murders. So he's a man who is 405 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 2: doing crabbing, oystering. There's other important things that we're going 406 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 2: to be emphasizing at the request of the Virginia State 407 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 2: Police and the FBI. This guy is very distinctive he's 408 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 2: only five beat five inches tall, so he's quite small, 409 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 2: but at the same time he's heavily muscular. And so 410 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 2: this guy's driving a very distinctive truck. This is a 411 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six truck that he's driving in the late eighties, 412 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 2: so it was an old, funky truck even back then. 413 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 2: And then if he got out of the truck, he's 414 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: a very unusually built guy, almost picture like a Popeye 415 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 2: type character because he's very small, way smaller than the 416 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 2: average man, but very very muscular. And then, as Kristen said, 417 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 2: he's fishing using this very distinctive boat. He's got a 418 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 2: very bold graphic on the side. The boat's called the 419 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 2: Denny Dnni Wade and that those happened to be the 420 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 2: names of his two kids. So he's fishing, crabbing, and 421 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 2: oystering from this very distinctive wooden hulled boat painted white 422 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 2: with a very large graphic Danny Wade. So what we're 423 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 2: trying to do is we're trying to help amplify the 424 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 2: request from law enforcement for people in that Tidewater area 425 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 2: of Virginia who might remember anything that would trigger their 426 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 2: memory of having any kind of interaction with this guy. 427 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 2: Even if it was just how I used to dock 428 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 2: in Gloucester, Virginia and he used to dock at the 429 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 2: pier next door. 430 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: Here's what sticks out for me. You've got somebody that 431 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: targeted couples, not individuals. That's unique. He did it in 432 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: a location that was surrounded by water, again, a place 433 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: we know that he was comfortable and he understood it. 434 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: You're only talking about twenty three miles, y'all, and it 435 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: connects this triangle of historic Virginia, Bill, You've already talked 436 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: about it with Jamestown and Williamsburg and Yorktown. But again, 437 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: this had to be something that he knew. He knew 438 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: when the sun went down it was going to be 439 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: kind of a ghost town along that stretch there, And 440 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, from the water, you could see the 441 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: cars and they couldn't see you. And so he's also 442 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: picking activities that would require and not even raise any 443 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: suspicion that he was doing them alone. So people that 444 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: go hunting or crabbing or boating a lot of times, 445 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: that is a single person sport, if you will. So 446 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: he had it built in that he could go away 447 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: from his family for an extended period of time and 448 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: nobody would think anything about it. 449 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's funny. There's something that I have to admit. 450 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 2: And again, I didn't go up in Virginia. Kristen is 451 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 2: from the Williamsburg area. She went away for grad school, 452 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 2: college and grad school and teaching, but ultimately has come 453 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 2: back to the Williamsburg area. But me, being less familiar 454 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 2: with it, I had thought it sounded unrealistic that someone 455 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 2: might be actually using the river the York or James 456 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 2: Rivers or the two rivers there to move around and 457 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 2: participate in these heinous crimes. And now I realize, you 458 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 2: know something, Bill, You made some assumptions there that I 459 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 2: think could be completely wrong. It would be more than 460 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 2: possible for someone like Wilmer to use the river to 461 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,959 Speaker 2: move around, because that's how he made his living, and 462 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 2: he could have pulled right up down along these locations. 463 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 2: And three of the four double homicides in the Colonial 464 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 2: Park Gray murders happened right next to a major body 465 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 2: of water. 466 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: I remember when I was there and I sent you 467 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: some of the pictures. The water is what attracted me. 468 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it was just so beautiful and it's right there. 469 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,479 Speaker 1: It's not a distance from where you could part. And 470 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: so again, now that we've got information we didn't have before, 471 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: it checks beautifully. 472 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 3: It really is very interesting. In one of the things 473 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 3: that I've been sort of, you know, whiplashing over the 474 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 3: last twenty four hours is now that we have this 475 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 3: information about this guy, I need to spend a little 476 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 3: bit of time kind of reassessing what do we know 477 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 3: about these cases? And what now that we have a 478 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 3: suspect who's been named and you know, proven to be 479 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 3: connected to two of these cases, what do we know 480 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 3: and now what do we need to reassess as well? 481 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 3: And so I know that part of what I'm thinking 482 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 3: about Mac is doing exactly what you were kind of 483 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 3: talking about, which is figuring out, Okay, what we know 484 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 3: this guy was a waterman, what else might that mean 485 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 3: he's been doing? What else might he have spent time doing? 486 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 3: Where else might he have spent his time? And I'm 487 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 3: starting to kind of rethink and rewrite my own internal 488 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 3: profile and sort of reconnect. 489 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: The dots here. 490 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 3: So while this is a very interesting process to go through, 491 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 3: it is also making me spin my wheels and sort 492 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:31,959 Speaker 3: of reevaluate what do we know? 493 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: What do we think we know? And what might be 494 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: wrong when all the information came out, I'm thinking, you know, 495 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: some boats take diesel, some trucks take diesel. Is this 496 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: something he had at the ready? You know? And again 497 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: from if you're a master at this boat, and then 498 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: you can you can pull up easily and walk right 499 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: up to that car, push the car, get right back 500 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: on the boat. What better get away? 501 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 2: And we also think and Kristen makes some really good points, 502 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 2: and there are dozens of unsolved murders, especially back then 503 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 2: between the Northern Neck where he's from, all the way 504 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 2: down to the Tidewater area which is Williamsburg, Newport News, Hampton, Gloucester, 505 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 2: that these murders that we're talking about took place. So 506 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 2: this guy's highly mobile. He moves around. The FBI and 507 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 2: Virginia State Police use the word transient. Sometimes he lived 508 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 2: on his boat. Sometimes he stayed at a low budget apartment. 509 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 2: So even though he has a home and a family 510 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,919 Speaker 2: up in Lancaster, Virginia, as you mentioned a minute ago, Mac, 511 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 2: he's moving around all the time with really not creating 512 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 2: any suspicion. He shows up in all sorts of different places. 513 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 2: I know, oh that law enforcement agencies across Virginia have 514 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 2: to be looking at where else could this guy have been. 515 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: I can almost see the war room now with these detectives. 516 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: Your boat's got to have a tag, just like your car. 517 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: If you win a rise it and you dock it somewhere, 518 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 1: if you go to the same place. Because men are 519 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: creatures of habit, they normally buy gasoline at the same place, 520 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: They get their haircut at the same place, they go 521 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 1: to the same liquor store. There are people that are 522 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: going to know this man. If he does all the 523 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: crabbing and getting all the oysters, is he's selling them 524 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: that person knows him. So he's going to have this 525 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: subculture of people that intimately know him. They know when 526 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: he goes out, they know how long he stays. And 527 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, any man with children that has been 528 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: able to carve out, I'm gonna go live on the 529 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 1: boat for a couple of months. He's got that story down. 530 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 2: I'm telling you, yeah, I would have to agree. We're 531 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 2: hopeful that people will come forward with different recollections. Our 532 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 2: media is just blowing up with people saying they knew 533 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 2: this man, they knew his family. We're trying to steer 534 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 2: these people to the FBI and Virginia State Police who 535 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:27,320 Speaker 2: are requesting the information. Because Kristin and I are not investigators, 536 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 2: I think we will proudly wear the advocate hat, but 537 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,399 Speaker 2: we ultimately are trying to prevail upon these people. Look, 538 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 2: you need to talk to law enforcement, and they pointed 539 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 2: out at the press conference that people's situations change. There's 540 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,280 Speaker 2: no reason to be afraid of this man. He clearly 541 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 2: was highly violent, but he's gone now. So we're hoping 542 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,800 Speaker 2: that people will come forward and say, yeah, I knew 543 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 2: this guy. Poky was his nickname. I knew that guy. 544 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 2: I sold him equipment that he used on his boat, 545 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 2: or I bought oysters or crabs from him, or I 546 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 2: went to a hunt club with him, or whatever it 547 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 2: might be. Because the investigators are trying to recreate this 548 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 2: man's personal history thirty something years later. 549 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to give out the information to get 550 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: in contact with the FBI one eight hundred call FBI. 551 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,919 Speaker 1: So if you have any information, please you can call 552 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 1: the FBI anonymously, but please call them. Nothing is too minuscule. 553 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: The slightest bit of information could be critical. You may 554 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: not think it's a big deal, but it could be 555 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: the small piece that's going to put this whole puzzle together. 556 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: Do either one of you know how law enforcement got 557 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: the information together to do the raid on his house. 558 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,919 Speaker 1: I mean they had to have a ton to get 559 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: a judge to sign off on that raid. 560 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an interesting piece of information that we would 561 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 3: like to have. We don't have that information available to 562 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 3: us at the moment, But give us enough time, we'll 563 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 3: snoop around. Maybe we'll come up with something. 564 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: Let's talk about how authorities got DNA from a dead 565 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: man with zero felony convictions. He's not in CODIS, he's 566 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: not in the DNA database. December fifteenth, twenty seventeen, a 567 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,760 Speaker 1: delivery driver spots an open door and as he walks 568 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: toward the entrance, he just gets a feeling something wrong, 569 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: So we calls the Lancaster County Sheriff's office. They find 570 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: a deceased man inside. Because of the condition of the body, 571 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: the state Medical Examiner was called in to investigate so 572 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: that they can positively identify this person and perhaps determine 573 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: the cause of death. But the DNA that the exact 574 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: elemen are collected in twenty seventeen ended up being critical 575 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: to the Colonial Parkway investigation. The FBI in the Virginia 576 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 1: State Police sought out this deceased person's genetic material in 577 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: their investigation into the Colonial Parkway murders. Interestingly, law enforcement 578 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: will not say how this person got on their radar. 579 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: They won't tell how this subject came to be somebody 580 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,880 Speaker 1: They wanted his DNA to cross check against the murders 581 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: in the Colonial Parkway investigation, but they positively identified Alan 582 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: Wade Wilmer, Senior. Wilmer is now the number one suspect 583 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: in all the Colonial Parkway murders, and I can tell 584 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 1: you I believe that he will be linked to other cases. 585 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: Another thing that I find real curious is since the 586 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: identification of Wilmer, law enforcement as it re late to 587 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,320 Speaker 1: the Colonial Parkway has not used the term serial killer. 588 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: But I will and further as a criminologist, I'll remind 589 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: y'all ems, signatures and targets meaning victims can change. You 590 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: don't have to look any further than Ted Bundy. Ted 591 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:25,879 Speaker 1: Bundy strangled, bludgeoned, and beheaded victims. He killed adults and 592 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: children seen to scene. Bundy's murders did not appear to 593 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,839 Speaker 1: be the same killer, but they were any information that 594 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: you might have about the Colonial Parkway murders or Alan 595 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: Wade Wilmer Senior, please contact the FBI or this podcast, 596 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: or a clergy or somebody. 597 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,800 Speaker 2: I'll add that on Sunday night, my phone started blowing 598 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 2: up that a raid had occurred at multiple locations in Lancaster, Virginia. 599 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 2: Even though it's way out in the country, people talk, 600 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 2: and they saw the dark SUVs and the FBI agents 601 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 2: with the windbreakers and a whole bunch of agents checking 602 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:29,600 Speaker 2: out various locations, all of which were owned by members 603 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 2: of this Wilmer family. We don't know what they were 604 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 2: looking for, but it's interesting. The FBI seemed surprised that 605 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,279 Speaker 2: we knew as much as we did. But the thing is, 606 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 2: we've really put ourselves out there all these years in 607 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:54,360 Speaker 2: the Parkway murders, maybe a bit too much sometimes. What 608 00:41:54,600 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 2: happened neighbors who saw all of this activity, they started 609 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 2: talking and then people said, you know, I think this 610 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 2: has something to do with all those unsolved murders in Virginia. 611 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 2: So the next thing we know, our phones are blowing 612 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,799 Speaker 2: up on Sunday night, you know, well into the night, 613 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 2: saying are you all aware of the fact that there 614 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 2: have been a raid at these homes in Lancaster, Virginia. Now, 615 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 2: Kristin and I had an inkling from our sources that 616 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 2: something very important was coming in the Colonial Parkway murders. 617 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 2: We didn't know they were going to raid these family 618 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 2: homes up there, but they clearly got the warrants that 619 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 2: were required. We are very confident there were certain things 620 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,919 Speaker 2: they were looking for, but we don't know what those 621 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 2: things might be. 622 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 3: Just keep sharing the information about our suspect as many 623 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 3: times and with as many people as you can. Spam 624 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,879 Speaker 3: people with it for all weeks, but we really really 625 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 3: want this information out there so that law enforcement can 626 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 3: start getting a better idea about this guy and his movements. 627 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,680 Speaker 3: He has been doing this since the late nineteen eighties, 628 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,759 Speaker 3: and he lived until twenty seventeen. He did not only 629 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 3: kill three victims. There are more people out there, and 630 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,320 Speaker 3: we need to find those victims because those families deserve 631 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 3: answers and justice as well. 632 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,839 Speaker 2: Don't forget if someone were to turn to me and say, well, 633 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 2: what difference does it make this fellow Wilmer's been dead 634 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,840 Speaker 2: since twenty seventeen. No one's going to jail et cetera. 635 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 2: Families are looking for answers. Anyone who's been waiting for answers, 636 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 2: And in our case, we're talking about a case that 637 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,919 Speaker 2: extends back thirty seven years. We were never certain that 638 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 2: we were going to be identifying suspects and putting perpetrators 639 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 2: in jail. That might have happened years ago, but that 640 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 2: ship has sailed. But don't forget these folks are waiting 641 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,359 Speaker 2: for answers. As I mentioned at the top of this podcast, 642 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 2: we have six more families and maybe more who are 643 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 2: all waiting for answers in their loved ones murders and disappearances. 644 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 2: So maybe it's not the most satisfying answer I've ever gotten, 645 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,400 Speaker 2: but I sure would like to know what happened to 646 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 2: my sister and all the victims in the Colonial Parkway murders, 647 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 2: and having that answer is some degree of satisfaction. It's 648 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,600 Speaker 2: not going to bring our loved ones back, it's not 649 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,680 Speaker 2: going to bring my kid's sister back, but this is 650 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 2: still important and I think we really need the public's 651 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:50,800 Speaker 2: help at this point. 652 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 1: Well, I'd like to add to that number one. Your sister, 653 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 1: your family, all the families, all the victims deserve it. 654 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:09,560 Speaker 1: They deserve answers, They deserve a conclusion, They deserve to 655 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:16,360 Speaker 1: have somebody named period. Secondly, what better way to train 656 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 1: There's gonna be things that come from the Colonial Parkway 657 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:26,719 Speaker 1: solutions that other detectives can go, Oh, we need to 658 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,759 Speaker 1: try that with our case today. We need to go 659 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,319 Speaker 1: back through and pull every name and see if we 660 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: have truly ruled these folks out, and if we haven't, 661 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 1: they go to the top of the list. Oh. I 662 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:44,800 Speaker 1: didn't realize they could do this now with DNA. That's 663 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:49,759 Speaker 1: why to me, this case is doubly important, not just 664 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: because obviously they deserve answers in justice, but also to 665 00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:00,120 Speaker 1: teach there are families right now that don't have answers 666 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,919 Speaker 1: in cases all over this country. Maybe y'all can give 667 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 1: them some answers a roadmap of how to do it. Bill, 668 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:13,320 Speaker 1: I've watched you. There is nobody better to contact law enforcement, 669 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: to stay on them, to let them know when you're 670 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 1: not pleased, to let them know when you are pleased. 671 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 1: I've watched you do it. It's amazing, and I think 672 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,440 Speaker 1: that's something when they say, hey, can you reach out 673 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: to this family, There's nobody better. You're a gift to 674 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,360 Speaker 1: be able to do that. So again, Bill, thank you 675 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,680 Speaker 1: so much for stopping in the middle of what I 676 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 1: know can only be one of the most onslaught of 677 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,319 Speaker 1: media request and attention and people reaching out to you 678 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 1: for answers. But you talking to me tonight is a 679 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,360 Speaker 1: gift and something I will just cherish. This is an 680 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: important case to me. You were important to me, Kathy's 681 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 1: important to me. This podcast episode means the world to me. 682 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,879 Speaker 2: Well, we can't thank you enough for all the work 683 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 2: you're doing on Zone seven and we feel really great 684 00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:08,480 Speaker 2: to be a part of it. 685 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much, so much. 686 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:11,000 Speaker 1: Mac. 687 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,040 Speaker 3: We appreciate you and everything that you do. 688 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I 689 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: always do with a quote. I know when I was 690 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,759 Speaker 1: there prosecuting homicides in the District of Columbia, one of 691 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: the most effective units there was the Colcase Squad, which 692 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 1: had IF the Eye agents as well as Metropolitan Police 693 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: homicide detectives working together. Robert Mueller, former director of the FBI. 694 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,600 Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is Zone seven.