Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.
Speaker 2: All right, So I gotta be honest, I'm having a
Speaker 2: difficult time with this because as an interviewer, you should
Speaker 2: have an unbiased opinion.
Speaker 3: I believe. I believe that just interview somebody, yep.
Speaker 2: I think that you should not come in with judgment,
Speaker 2: not come in with preconceived opinions. And most of the time,
Speaker 2: like you know, when we've had people like Whitney on
Speaker 2: who was very much like she was the.
Speaker 3: How do we say that?
Speaker 2: Like the what would they call her on that the
Speaker 2: first season of The Secret Antagonist? Yeah, and it's like
Speaker 2: where we could go in and be like, oh, I
Speaker 2: don't really know about her and we might feel it,
Speaker 2: but you still want to be warm and kind and
Speaker 2: give her the platform to be able to say what
Speaker 2: she wants to say. Yeah, have her truth, her story.
Speaker 2: And I feel like that should go. I mean, the
Speaker 2: best people that I've seen interview, like a Barbara Walters,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like they I don't feel like they ever.
Speaker 3: From what I.
Speaker 2: Watched as a kid watching twenty twenty, I never really
Speaker 2: saw them having judgment. I would agree, right, Okay, So
Speaker 2: with this it's like, I know we're a podcast, but
Speaker 2: we're still interviewing. Yeah, And I'm having a difficult time
Speaker 2: with this. If I'm honest with you and.
Speaker 3: This, I really just want to go on the record
Speaker 3: for saying that you and I watched this entire documentary,
Speaker 3: but we have not spoken at all at all. We
Speaker 3: have not about this. So I don't know how you're
Speaker 3: entering this and you don't even have to tell me. Now,
Speaker 3: I think my I think you'll be surprised.
Speaker 2: Let me be honest, and I'll be I'll be straight
Speaker 2: up honest with this, because again I'm teetering the line
Speaker 2: between I listen, I am no Barbara Walters, Okay, I
Speaker 2: have this podcast, and I think there's a difference between.
Speaker 2: I think it's two things can be true at once, right,
Speaker 2: So it's like, I have this podcast, and I have
Speaker 2: my opinions about certain things, and I want to be
Speaker 2: in to interview and give people the chance to have
Speaker 2: their voices heard. Having said that, when I got this
Speaker 2: request for this interview, I said, no, that was actually
Speaker 2: going to be one of my questions to you. I said,
Speaker 2: I don't want to have her on. Can I ask
Speaker 2: why I don't believe her and it triggers something in
Speaker 2: me to have someone that lies given something that is
Speaker 2: freshly going on right now too. I have a and listen,
Speaker 2: I have lied countless times in my past. I am
Speaker 2: not by any means a saint or like I have
Speaker 2: lie to people's faces. I've in my day back in
Speaker 2: the day, like having said that I have, you know,
Speaker 2: done my work and all the healing and all the things.
Speaker 2: But when I when I kind of started to research
Speaker 2: and then I watched the documentary, I was like, I
Speaker 2: wondered if this would be hard for you because of that,
Speaker 2: it triggers something post Mike Liars, I'm like, you're done.
Speaker 2: You're done to me, You're dead to me, like you're
Speaker 2: I just I can see right through what you're doing,
Speaker 2: through the laugh, through the smile, like there's just And
Speaker 2: then so much so that something has recently happened with
Speaker 2: like a month or so ago, where this person was
Speaker 2: straight up lying and I'm watching it happen. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I know because I have proof, and you're lying through
Speaker 2: your teeth right now. And it's like it then tended
Speaker 2: to have people then to tended to be interviewing someone
Speaker 2: that is a known liar.
Speaker 3: A federally accused and found guilty liar. I'm just like,
Speaker 3: like lied to the FBI coming.
Speaker 2: I don't want to sit in front of someone to
Speaker 2: be lied to again like I did it for years.
Speaker 2: I had someone lie to me for years to my face.
Speaker 2: I'm done, Like, I don't want to. I don't want
Speaker 2: to be like lied to. I feel that's my frustration
Speaker 2: and I'm making basing it. No, No, I felt the
Speaker 2: same thing. I started watching the documentary and I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't even want to give this chick my time.
Speaker 3: But I will tell you. I think you'll be surprised
Speaker 3: at some compassion I have found where with miss Sherry.
Speaker 3: Really which piece you'll see?
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, okay, Well she's here, feed breaths, Let's
Speaker 2: get her.
Speaker 3: Hello, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 1: I'm good? How are you?
Speaker 3: I am good? Cherry? We have a lot of questions.
Speaker 2: First, not the only one, so yeah, and first and foremost,
Speaker 2: I just want to I'm curious because you know, obviously
Speaker 2: we watched the documentary. What and from what I've been
Speaker 2: told is that you didn't have editorial rights in piecing
Speaker 2: that together. So I'm curious as let's take you out
Speaker 2: of the equation, right, and you were a viewer sitting
Speaker 2: on the couch watching this show, how how do you
Speaker 2: think you were perceived in that and what as a
Speaker 2: viewer would you be thinking watching it?
Speaker 1: Well, I watched at the same time that everybody else
Speaker 1: watched it, and that was absolutely terrifying because I had
Speaker 1: no idea how the edits were going to come together.
Speaker 1: I certainly knew what my interviews were like. It was
Speaker 1: a year long process, and I knew what I had
Speaker 1: gone through and the excruciating process that I went through
Speaker 1: creating the film, but I had absolutely no idea how
Speaker 1: it was going to be edited and my direction sure
Speaker 1: that I worked with she continued to say, you know,
Speaker 1: we are going to do something very balanced, right, And
Speaker 1: so the primary objective of Sherry Pepini Cotton a Lie
Speaker 1: was every time you had something that made me look good,
Speaker 1: they had to balance it with something that would make
Speaker 1: me look bad. For me, that's really scary because when
Speaker 1: you go in with this negative bias of how I've
Speaker 1: appeared online and the the reputation that I've had out there,
Speaker 1: it already kind of tips the scales a little bit.
Speaker 1: So it was pretty heartbreaking to watch for me to
Speaker 1: watch how it came together. I'm proud of what I
Speaker 1: contributed to it, and I'm proud of even the you know,
Speaker 1: the moments that unfortunately are twisted or whatever, Like it's
Speaker 1: still all me in there, and it's still incredibly vulnerable,
Speaker 1: and I'm happy with what I can attributed to it.
Speaker 3: Do you feel like it was balanced?
Speaker 1: Well, again, I think when you already go into something
Speaker 1: with a level of negative bias, I think it generally
Speaker 1: can tip the scales one way or another. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so, Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3: I have Okay, So the one question that burns in
Speaker 3: me is a pretty intimate and it's a pretty heavy one.
Speaker 3: So I don't know how. I guess you can just
Speaker 3: say pass if you prefer not to, but I know,
Speaker 3: don't brace yourself. I'm a kind human, so I'm like
Speaker 3: the I'm not one that's going to like attack, so
Speaker 3: the compassion part of me. So I watched the whole thing,
Speaker 3: and I felt like there was a part that they
Speaker 3: maybe didn't give enough time to, and that would be
Speaker 3: the childhood trauma piece and the sexual assault in your
Speaker 3: early I know you said early double digits, so maybe
Speaker 3: ten eleven, twelve, and so my question because I think
Speaker 3: that this deserves a little space because it sets a
Speaker 3: tone for all of your life, in my opinion, and
Speaker 3: I have childhood trauma as well. It is not as
Speaker 3: significant is something as that, but I know how it
Speaker 3: has shaped me. The way I see things, the way
Speaker 3: I do things, the justice I seek, my inability to
Speaker 3: tolerate liars. That's no offense to our present guest, but
Speaker 3: there is things that trigger me because of the way
Speaker 3: I grew up. Do you feel like there was justice
Speaker 3: in the sexual assault that happened to you early on,
Speaker 3: because in the way the film is telling the story,
Speaker 3: it was kind of swept under the rug. It felt
Speaker 3: like this family never talked about it, which I would say,
Speaker 3: we're the same age, so I would say that that
Speaker 3: generation of parenting is pretty good at sweeping and not
Speaker 3: identifying and not really digging in. But I am now,
Speaker 3: I'm a mother of a nine year old, and I
Speaker 3: can't imagine that I am in your father's place and
Speaker 3: I walk in, as it's told on the documentary, he
Speaker 3: walks in to find this person sexually assaulting his daughter,
Speaker 3: and then there's not some sort of really deep dive
Speaker 3: into you as a human and as a little girl,
Speaker 3: little Sherry, and we're not working through that. So do
Speaker 3: you feel is there any parts of those stories that
Speaker 3: you want to retell? I don't want to make you
Speaker 3: live a trauma, So that's why I'm careful in the
Speaker 3: way I'm wording this. But I'm really super interested in
Speaker 3: the non resolution that you got out of that maybe,
Speaker 3: and how that could further shape all of these events
Speaker 3: that now all of America is involved in.
Speaker 1: I would say, for me, certainly, the bravery that it
Speaker 1: took for my parents to even speak about that, to
Speaker 1: feel comfortable coming out and being able to share that
Speaker 1: very deeply rooted family secret, that a significant amount of
Speaker 1: healing happened. So after I got out of prison and
Speaker 1: I moved back in with my mom and dad, you know,
Speaker 1: we were able to have family dinner every night, we
Speaker 1: were able to really dig very deep into therapy together,
Speaker 1: and this beautiful healing, blossoming relationship occurred. And to me,
Speaker 1: that's really what I've always desired and what I've always needed.
Speaker 1: Coming out in a film that's going to be seen
Speaker 1: by millions of people, and my parents being willing to
Speaker 1: speak on what happened to me, that's it's pretty incredible.
Speaker 1: It's pretty incredible because there's you know, certainly with my dad,
Speaker 1: he's carried around this tremendous guilt and this tremendous shame.
Speaker 1: Because we're older, it's not like there's anything that we
Speaker 1: even can do about it other than heal talk about it.
Speaker 1: He's given me a tre tremendous amount of grace with
Speaker 1: how it happened and the sweeping it under the rug
Speaker 1: and not talking about it when we were that age.
Speaker 1: We're talking about it now though, and it's become quite
Speaker 1: a comfortable conversation with my parents, and I'm really I'm
Speaker 1: really happy with the relationship that I have with the
Speaker 1: trauma now.
Speaker 3: I know that this is kind of a hindsight question,
Speaker 3: so this may not be something you can even answer,
Speaker 3: but one of the psychologists in the film talks about
Speaker 3: how if that trauma, that trauma was not dealt with
Speaker 3: appropriately at the time, and how that does and we
Speaker 3: all know that just from existing in the world, if
Speaker 3: little Sherry was to get the treatment she needed and
Speaker 3: the healing and the emotional and mental support at the
Speaker 3: time of that incident, do you think that shapes who
Speaker 3: you are now differently? And do we think that we
Speaker 3: even know who you are, because in my brain, I
Speaker 3: don't even think we know who you are if you
Speaker 3: had gotten the support at that time that you should
Speaker 3: have gotten and is that I you know?
Speaker 2: And the thing too, to add on to that, it's
Speaker 2: like your friends from school were saying, you know, she
Speaker 2: was always saying she was going to leave and then
Speaker 2: make up lies and she was always lying about about stuff.
Speaker 2: Do you think those lies came because of that on
Speaker 2: field trauma?
Speaker 1: Well, I think when the news story broke and everything
Speaker 1: came out, everyone wanted to jump on the bandwagon. So
Speaker 1: you know, you went to middle school, you went to
Speaker 1: high school. We weren't friends with everybody that we met.
Speaker 1: We weren't friends with everyone that we interacted with in school,
Speaker 1: and so when you have AM it's kind of like
Speaker 1: confirmation bias. Right. So, if this is a particular story,
Speaker 1: if I have something that I want to talk about
Speaker 1: that's in the avenue of the story, I'm going to
Speaker 1: call and talk about what I have that contributes to
Speaker 1: the story. There's so much more to my life and
Speaker 1: there's so much more to the depth of my relationships.
Speaker 1: But it's like when they pick out certain things just
Speaker 1: to fixate on this one issue that I had. It
Speaker 1: makes it really difficult because it's like there's other people
Speaker 1: in my life that I've had these exceptional relationships with,
Speaker 1: or even tumultuous tumultuous relationships with, and some of these
Speaker 1: people that came forward like they've done really terrible things
Speaker 1: and they are really horrible people, and now I have
Speaker 1: to come back and I have to be able to
Speaker 1: clean it up. And you know, there's a great example
Speaker 1: is there's an ex boyfriend that went on and said, oh,
Speaker 1: she just likes to make up stories. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: you were cheating on your fiance and I didn't even
Speaker 1: know you were engaged, and yet you're being brought up
Speaker 1: in these news stories about me without evidence and just
Speaker 1: trying to trash me, when it's like your life is
Speaker 1: so incredibly horrific in and out of itself. So it's
Speaker 1: it's really I feel so mean girled all the time,
Speaker 1: and I feel so picked on all the time by
Speaker 1: these people who are just getting up and giving their
Speaker 1: opinion without even providing evidence of it. It's just like
Speaker 1: rumor after rumor after rumor, and I've continued to try
Speaker 1: and demonstrate my remorse and my accountability for what I've done.
Speaker 1: But I'm done taking too much accountability and i am
Speaker 1: done trying to continue to defend myself when people come
Speaker 1: out with things that are just not true about me.
Speaker 2: I think, honestly my interaction and watching it, I still
Speaker 2: was just having the hardest time trying to understand why
Speaker 2: the lie in the beginning. And I'm still kind of
Speaker 2: confused on that piece because I'm like, if I and
Speaker 2: I get, you know, to an extent, some of the
Speaker 2: stuff you were talking about, but it's like, if I
Speaker 2: knew I was gonna, did you have I guess I'm
Speaker 2: just I guess I'm just confused. I guess I'm just
Speaker 2: lost on why why even lie? Make up this thing?
Speaker 2: Because I'm like, you make up a lie because you're
Speaker 2: trying to cover a shame piece. You're trying to cover
Speaker 2: up something that's That's when I lied. I lied to
Speaker 2: an ext boyfriend that I cheated on because I didn't
Speaker 2: want him to know the truth that I that I cheated,
Speaker 2: you know, and I made up this elaborate lie to
Speaker 2: cover up my own shame stuff. And so you know,
Speaker 2: that was what back in my twenties. But still it's
Speaker 2: like with this situation. It's like I still just don't
Speaker 2: understand why, Like I just I don't know if I
Speaker 2: I just don't understand that. I don't. I don't understand
Speaker 2: where the lie even started. It was like a bad
Speaker 2: plan gone wrong, like did because obviously you were texting
Speaker 2: with this guy. I know you said it led to
Speaker 2: something else, but there's it's just doesn't something about it
Speaker 2: just I don't. It doesn't make sense. And I think
Speaker 2: that's maybe why other people don't believe the story, because
Speaker 2: it doesn't. It's hard to make sense of it.
Speaker 1: The narrative that's out there prior to me coming forward
Speaker 1: is the part that doesn't make sense. I think now
Speaker 1: that I've come forward, and now that I'm able to
Speaker 1: be able to speak on what happened, it tracks and
Speaker 1: it aligns and it fills in all of the gaps
Speaker 1: of the why and the confusion. And are you talking
Speaker 1: about the Hulu documentary that you watched or the HBO documentary? Okay,
Speaker 1: So for me, you know, I was carrying on this
Speaker 1: emotional affair and I got in over my head and
Speaker 1: was in a very dangerous situation, and then coming out
Speaker 1: of it and going back home, I was too afraid
Speaker 1: to tell my ex husband that I was having an
Speaker 1: emotional affair, and the story that was made up to
Speaker 1: cover up his identity, And that's all my story is.
Speaker 1: I've always maintained that I was kidnapped and tortured and brutalized,
Speaker 1: always continue to say that that is what happened. I
Speaker 1: was just too afraid to come out and talk about
Speaker 1: his identity. I was too afraid because James was watching.
Speaker 1: I was afraid because I had already lied to law enforcement,
Speaker 1: and I was terrified to tell my ex husband that
Speaker 1: I was having an emotional affair. Because what you see
Speaker 1: is happening right now. There's bits and pieces and details
Speaker 1: of my marriage that are starting to come out now,
Speaker 1: particularly starting with the documentary of the coercive control and
Speaker 1: the abuse that I was suffering in my marriage. And
Speaker 1: that's really all it was. I got into a dangerous
Speaker 1: situation and I was too afraid to tell my ex
Speaker 1: husband that I was having an emotional affair. And now
Speaker 1: I'm not married anymore, and I'm not ashamed anymore, and
Speaker 1: I've taken accountability for what I've done, and so I'm
Speaker 1: able to very clearly talk about what happened, and why
Speaker 1: the lie was created, and how I'm picking up the
Speaker 1: pieces and rebuilding my life and moving forward from what happened.
Speaker 3: What were you afraid Keith would do if you told
Speaker 3: him the truth before this abduction, if you were to
Speaker 3: just come because there's burner phones involved, So this is
Speaker 3: next level, sister. We got to be honest. Like I've
Speaker 3: we're in the music industry, We've seen some shady things,
Speaker 3: but like the burner.
Speaker 2: Phone was a sex addict, so he had the burner phones.
Speaker 2: Like there's a level of like deep.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I want to know what were you nervous
Speaker 3: would happen? What would Keith do that you were nervous
Speaker 3: of if you were to tell the truth to him.
Speaker 1: It's what you're seeing right now. So after after the
Speaker 1: details started to come out and I was arrested and
Speaker 1: I was released from jail, my defense attorney had a
Speaker 1: meeting with Keith and was trying to get him to
Speaker 1: understand why we would be taking a plea agreement rather
Speaker 1: than going to trial. And he let out a little
Speaker 1: detail that about the burner phones that I had been
Speaker 1: keeping secret from my ex husband and called me right
Speaker 1: away and said sorry, I really I didn't mean to
Speaker 1: do this, but he's on the way and he's pissed,
Speaker 1: so please be careful. I don't really know what's going
Speaker 1: to happen, but he's really upset. So I took my
Speaker 1: phone when he showed up, I hit record, and I
Speaker 1: split it under the bed. And what happened after that
Speaker 1: was Keith said, Okay, here's what's going to happen. I
Speaker 1: want you to sign all of these unfair agreements. I
Speaker 1: want you to sign your rights away to your custody
Speaker 1: and to all of the assets in our marriage. And
Speaker 1: when you come out and when you're ready to sell
Speaker 1: the story, I get control of it. So if you
Speaker 1: sign this contract and you sign all of these agreements,
Speaker 1: you can come home, but I'm in complete control of everything,
Speaker 1: and you can live in the guest bedroom. And if
Speaker 1: you apologize to me every day and I believe that
Speaker 1: you've earned the right to our marriage, then you can
Speaker 1: come in and we can rekindle our marriage. And at
Speaker 1: that point, I was living with my sister in law already.
Speaker 1: It was after my arrest, and I was preparing to
Speaker 1: go to prison, and I was preparing to sign a
Speaker 1: plea agreement, and I had finally gotten the strength to say, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. I'm not going back home. I
Speaker 1: now see what it feels like to be without you,
Speaker 1: and that I'm going to survive. And I knew I
Speaker 1: was going to prison, which was the safest that I
Speaker 1: felt in sixteen years. And so I didn't sign. And
Speaker 1: he threatened me and said, if you don't sign, then
Speaker 1: I'm bringing the entire world down on your head, which
Speaker 1: won't be hard, because you're Shery Peppini and everyone loves
Speaker 1: me and I'm the hero and this is all I have.
Speaker 1: It it's all recorded, and he says, if you don't
Speaker 1: sign the agreement, you don't do what I want, I
Speaker 1: will be taking your children from you, which won't be hard,
Speaker 1: and I will completely obliterate your life, turn the media
Speaker 1: on you, change your entire family's perspective on you. If
Speaker 1: you sign this, I will lie for you. If you
Speaker 1: sign this and come home and shut your mouth and
Speaker 1: give me all the control, you'll have your kids and
Speaker 1: you'll have everything. And I didn't sign it, and I
Speaker 1: went to prison instead, and he did exactly what he
Speaker 1: threatened to do. He's taken custody, full custody of my children.
Speaker 1: He has absolutely everything. I lost my trial and the
Speaker 1: divorce and the separation of assets because he had the
Speaker 1: trial while I was in prison. He's ruined relationships in
Speaker 1: my life and manipulated using my crime against me in
Speaker 1: every way. So the post separation abuse that I'm experiencing
Speaker 1: now you're seeing firsthand, and everything that he's threatened to do.
Speaker 1: He did everything that I was afraid of happening. He's
Speaker 1: done and continues to do.
Speaker 3: Why did he create a post up? Because that's a
Speaker 3: very that's not a common thing to have in a marriage,
Speaker 3: especially a healthy marriage. I mean, if my husband slides
Speaker 3: to me a post up, now, I'm like I gave
Speaker 3: ax a post up when he was rehob right, That's why.
Speaker 3: So I so the viewer side of this and this
Speaker 3: is just me and I promise I actually have this
Speaker 3: is I'm not on a side because they did to
Speaker 3: me a very fair job of balancing you, and I
Speaker 3: felt like the only thing that was a little imbalanced
Speaker 3: is me getting a little more backstory, and like, why
Speaker 3: Sherry is the way Sherry is. That's why I wanted
Speaker 3: to lead with the question about your youth, because I
Speaker 3: think it does determine so much of our older years.
Speaker 3: But when someone is coming to you with a post up,
Speaker 3: it's usually because there's already been some sort of something
Speaker 3: that's a red flag to him, whether it's infidelity or
Speaker 3: lying or something, and you signed it. So can you
Speaker 3: expand on why there was one?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 3: Because I because it's easy to divorce someone and get
Speaker 3: all the assets when they're in prison. A But when
Speaker 3: they're in prison and they've already signed off that they
Speaker 3: can have everything, you can that he could literally have
Speaker 3: everything because you've already agreed upon that legally before while
Speaker 3: you were married.
Speaker 1: Well, Puppini has changed his story quite a lot. So
Speaker 1: when you see him in interrogation room, see him on
Speaker 1: the stand in court, and see him in his documentary,
Speaker 1: he says three different stories. So the first one is
Speaker 1: that I was bad with money and he wanted to
Speaker 1: make sure that he separated the assets because I was
Speaker 1: bad with money. The second story is that he just
Speaker 1: wanted to protect his own assets. And the third story
Speaker 1: is that he caught me text messaging another man. So,
Speaker 1: to be frank with you, I think the post nuptial
Speaker 1: agreement was designed to continue to have to demonstrate a
Speaker 1: level of control. Why he actually decided to do it.
Speaker 1: I think it could be a myriad of reasons. When
Speaker 1: you do a post nuptial agreement, generally you're supposed to
Speaker 1: have dual representation, meaning a lawyer for him and a
Speaker 1: lawyer for me, and I didn't get that. I didn't
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to have my own representation, and so
Speaker 1: the post nuptial agreement technically should be considered invalid. It
Speaker 1: was drawn up by Keith himself, so it was a
Speaker 1: pretty flimsy contract in general, and I didn't have the
Speaker 1: option to not sign it. Not signing it meant I
Speaker 1: had to get out, and I had to move out
Speaker 1: of my home, and there wasn't a lot of I
Speaker 1: didn't have a voice. I didn't get to say, okay,
Speaker 1: well this is unfair. And and when it was created
Speaker 1: it was prior to having kids, even it was never updated,
Speaker 1: and it was a really unfair agreement that I didn't
Speaker 1: have a lot of choice in.
Speaker 3: Were you texting another guy? Though?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: Was that truth?
Speaker 1: I mean I there was no a built Yes I was,
Speaker 1: but I was also texting females like there. It wasn't
Speaker 1: about a guy, It was about not having friends that
Speaker 1: he didn't have control over when we say emotional affair.
Speaker 1: I was desperate to have an emotional connection with someone.
Speaker 1: I was desperate to have conversation with someone. Didn't matter
Speaker 1: to me. Whether it was a male or female. That
Speaker 1: mattered to Keith. And it's not like I was able
Speaker 1: to just go to Starbucks and make new friends or something.
Speaker 1: I had an incredibly oppressive life, so it didn't matter
Speaker 1: whether it was male or female. Everything had to be
Speaker 1: run through him and it had to be vetted. So
Speaker 1: regardless of whether it was a male, which was unacceptable
Speaker 1: to him, if one of my girlfriends didn't meet a
Speaker 1: level of status, if they were overweight, if they were gay,
Speaker 1: if they were whatever Keith had on his list, I
Speaker 1: was not allowed to be friends with them. So it's
Speaker 1: not like his only issue was that I was texting men.
Speaker 1: That's just part of the story.
Speaker 3: But the text messages found on the phone that was
Speaker 3: left the day of the abduction were romantic in nature
Speaker 3: with men.
Speaker 1: How do you hear that?
Speaker 3: Well, So that's what the FBI said, I believe, wasn't
Speaker 3: it They the police department. It's in one of those The.
Speaker 1: Phone was never found. The FBI didn't.
Speaker 3: No, no, nor your cell phone, the one that was found.
Speaker 2: I had the hair strand like perfectly curled up in
Speaker 2: the year.
Speaker 3: It said that there was conversation. It was in one
Speaker 3: of the interrogation like films of the police department's interview
Speaker 3: with you. They talked about that there were numbers saved
Speaker 3: in your phone that were but it had female names.
Speaker 3: Female names were actually and romantic, which I did like that.
Speaker 3: They noted that because not to throw you under the
Speaker 3: bus it was. I liked that they noted that because
Speaker 3: anybody could do that if you are in a controlling relationship.
Speaker 3: Any man that texts you could be alarming to a
Speaker 3: husband that is an abusive husband. But they said they
Speaker 3: specifically they were romantic in nature. So there was more
Speaker 3: than James.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was. There was, And you know, I think
Speaker 1: it's really about where you judge that I did have
Speaker 1: what's considered emotional affairs with another man when it's considered
Speaker 1: romantic in nature, I think you really kind of have
Speaker 1: to break down your level of degree there, because there's
Speaker 1: also text messages from my girlfriends saying the exact same thing.
Speaker 1: So if you were to send me a text message
Speaker 1: this morning and say good morning, beautiful, it would be
Speaker 1: the same thing as a text message from someone else
Speaker 1: when you say romantic in nature, there's another tax thing.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think if someone texts my phone and says good morning,
Speaker 2: beautiful and it's a man, I think that's crossing a line. Personally,
Speaker 2: if my husband saw that, that would not be appropriate. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you text me all the time good morning, Yeah, like
Speaker 2: great love. But like I that's where I respectfully don't
Speaker 2: see how that's the same thing.
Speaker 3: I would say this. Is there a point, because Sherry,
Speaker 3: you are still a human, so I promise you I
Speaker 3: am being as objective as empathetic as I can be
Speaker 3: for the whole story. Is there a point pre abduction
Speaker 3: where you were like in over your head, exhausted. I mean,
Speaker 3: this has to weigh on you too. We've got texts
Speaker 3: coming in from guys. We're hiding them under girl names
Speaker 3: for whatever reason. All of that is heavy. Sherry is
Speaker 3: still a person and a mom at this place in
Speaker 3: the story. I mean, you're still a person in a
Speaker 3: mom but I mean pre abduction that is so heavy.
Speaker 3: Is there a point ever where you're like, I just
Speaker 3: want out of all of Like how do I get
Speaker 3: out of all of this? Because that's a lot to
Speaker 3: keep up with too, and you're seeking emotional and I
Speaker 3: have been there at times, not in this marriage, previous
Speaker 3: relationships where I have felt a little bit of that
Speaker 3: and so, but I also just know the tax it
Speaker 3: takes on a human body and your spirit and your mind,
Speaker 3: and it's exhausting to keep up with all of that.
Speaker 3: Is there a point where you're like, I just want
Speaker 3: out of all Like, how do I get out of
Speaker 3: all of this? And is that where this this James
Speaker 3: situation comes in, where you are now entertaining the thought
Speaker 3: of him, you guys being together and doing a trip
Speaker 3: to northern or southern California? Is that the breaking point
Speaker 3: for you or you? Like I just like, is anything
Speaker 3: better than where I'm at?
Speaker 1: I was incredibly miserable in my marriage at the time.
Speaker 1: I was seeking so much more external validation than internal validation,
Speaker 1: Like I really didn't understand.
Speaker 2: And by the way, a lot of people can relate
Speaker 2: to that, Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's like I
Speaker 2: can relate to that. I can relate to that too,
Speaker 2: Like if I had something in front of you my
Speaker 2: last marriage, like, yeah, I almost you know, I probably
Speaker 2: could have and especially the emotion of part so bad.
Speaker 3: That's why I relate on that that part. I think
Speaker 3: I can relate to that a little bit, not to
Speaker 3: the extent, but enough that I'm like, I see, and
Speaker 3: then it starts to go too far, because these guys
Speaker 3: are going to fall further fall in love with you.
Speaker 1: I my marriage was falling apart already, and then I
Speaker 1: had two children, and so I was incredibly miserable. I really,
Speaker 1: I hadn't started therapy. Then I was incredibly emotionally immature
Speaker 1: and very stented. And again with like the seeking the
Speaker 1: external validation rather the internal validation. What I knew is
Speaker 1: that I was really miserable and I didn't understand, frankly,
Speaker 1: how to maturely cope with that. And there are a
Speaker 1: lot of mistakes that I made and a lot of
Speaker 1: regrets that I have. And you know, with the emotional affairs,
Speaker 1: to me, they seemed safe and they see deemed less
Speaker 1: than having a physical affair. I understand that differently now,
Speaker 1: and I take full accountability for that. I really do
Speaker 1: understand that. You know, it wasn't right to be having
Speaker 1: an emotional affair. What would have been right would have
Speaker 1: been ending my marriage rather than doing that. What would
Speaker 1: have been right was understanding that I'm valuable and where
Speaker 1: my value person as a person stands. But I was
Speaker 1: always trying to find a plan. It's very complicated when
Speaker 1: you have children. It's very complicated when you have someone,
Speaker 1: when you're married to someone with the status that they
Speaker 1: have in the town that you live in, and not
Speaker 1: necessarily having a family support system that I had, having
Speaker 1: been alienated from my parents as well, I didn't really
Speaker 1: know where to go and where to turn with that,
Speaker 1: and I did want to get out, and in terms
Speaker 1: of my emotional affair with James, there was no plan
Speaker 1: to go to southern California, and so starting my emotional
Speaker 1: fair with James, to me, it felt safe because he
Speaker 1: lived in southern California and there was no intention to
Speaker 1: go anywhere with him. There was an intention to meet
Speaker 1: up with him in town and to end that engagement
Speaker 1: and to end because you're right, When you have an
Speaker 1: emotional affairs, someone gets feelings and they get deeper feelings,
Speaker 1: and that's what was happening. What was happening is James
Speaker 1: wanted more than I was willing to give. For me,
Speaker 1: it was just I just need a little text message.
Speaker 1: I just need a little validation. I needed a little
Speaker 1: bit of emotional connection, because I mean, my husband had
Speaker 1: a rule that I wasn't even allowed to speak to
Speaker 1: him past six o'clock at night. So it was like
Speaker 1: I didn't have friends and I didn't have this. I
Speaker 1: thought that getting married met you married your best friend,
Speaker 1: and I thought that getting married was something completely different
Speaker 1: than what I had experienced, And to me, having that
Speaker 1: little bit of connection with somebody was really what I
Speaker 1: needed and understanding it now, you know, it's really sad.
Speaker 1: It's incredibly sad that I didn't have enough confidence and
Speaker 1: I didn't have enough self respect to just be able
Speaker 1: to walk away from the marriage and the courage that
Speaker 1: it took to walk away from the marriage that I'm
Speaker 1: doing now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think so many women can relate to
Speaker 2: that piece of that, and we've all been in that well,
Speaker 2: a lot of us have been in that situation where it's,
Speaker 2: you know, where that we can relate to that. I
Speaker 2: guess my final question is just, you know, because of
Speaker 2: what happened and with James, are you now wanting to
Speaker 2: seek because I did like with that. I don't know
Speaker 2: if he was the DA or who he was an investigator,
Speaker 2: but he basically was like, you know, she's going to
Speaker 2: need a confession both verbally and written down from like
Speaker 2: the wolf itself, because like she's the you know, the
Speaker 2: girl who cried Wolf's like, you're going to need the
Speaker 2: confession from the wolf actually saying I did X, Y,
Speaker 2: and Z. Are you wanting to get actual proof of
Speaker 2: what James did so so that you can be proven
Speaker 2: telling the truth and that you're not lying again? Is
Speaker 2: there even a world where there's possibility to get that
Speaker 2: kind of proof from that.
Speaker 1: First and foremost in the story of the Girl that
Speaker 1: Cried Wolf? The girl still gets very hurt in that story,
Speaker 1: regardless of the crying of the wolf. And yes, it's
Speaker 1: highly unlikely that we're going to get a written confession,
Speaker 1: but there's I mean, I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful James has
Speaker 1: an ability to heal everybody in this story by coming forward.
Speaker 1: He knows what he did. And in these other interviews
Speaker 1: that I've had, one of the questions they ask is
Speaker 1: are you afraid of defamation? And I'm not. I'm not
Speaker 1: because we have that proof. You know, you say we
Speaker 1: need the wolf's footprint. You literally have a photograph of
Speaker 1: his footprint on my back. You have injuries that I
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly do myself. And when you look at these
Speaker 1: photographs of my body, you dismiss them because you think
Speaker 1: I I did it to myself, or you think that
Speaker 1: I gave permission to do it to myself. And I'm
Speaker 1: saying that I didn't. And so we do have that proof.
Speaker 1: And James knows what he did. He knows that, and
Speaker 1: that's why I think he's not going to come forward
Speaker 1: because he has no alibi for consent, He has no
Speaker 1: proof of consent. He has proof, and he stated in
Speaker 1: his interrogation videos that he did, in fact do this
Speaker 1: to my body, and he participated in it, and he
Speaker 1: didn't get even as little as a conspiracy charge. You know.
Speaker 1: When I was in prison, I met women who had
Speaker 1: no idea what was happening. They had no idea drug
Speaker 1: deal was even happening, but they happened to be in
Speaker 1: a car and they got six years in prison, you know.
Speaker 1: And James has continued to demonstrate culpability in my case,
Speaker 1: and I am the only one that caught the charge
Speaker 1: with it, and I wanted to take accountability for the
Speaker 1: lie that I created to conceal his identity, and I
Speaker 1: do feel like I have done that. There are other
Speaker 1: key players here though, and James, there's so much evidence
Speaker 1: to what happened to my body that I couldn't possibly
Speaker 1: do myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think that is was ever in question.
Speaker 2: I think that was that for me asked him to
Speaker 2: do that, Like I wouldn't think that you would do
Speaker 2: that to yourself. It was that you asked and listen,
Speaker 2: if that is the truth, like that is awful and
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry that you had to go through that experience.
Speaker 2: If that is you know, the your truth in it,
Speaker 2: like that is terrible. As a domestic balance survivor, that
Speaker 2: is awful and I'm so sorry that you were in
Speaker 2: that situation. I think what is hard for people that
Speaker 2: have you know, watched the stuff is going, okay, well
Speaker 2: she lied once you know, is what is the truth? Now?
Speaker 2: Bottom line is there's the truth and then there's the
Speaker 2: actual truth, right like there's your truth, there's his truth,
Speaker 2: then there's the actual truth. And if this is the truth,
Speaker 2: like that is awful and I'm so sorry that you
Speaker 2: went through that. Bottom line and that sucks that you'll
Speaker 2: never be able to to get that and listen. We
Speaker 2: have people that talk about us all the time and
Speaker 2: be like, oh she did this, and it's like, no,
Speaker 2: that's not true. But and you know, you can spend
Speaker 2: the rest of your life trying to say, you know,
Speaker 2: this is what's happened, but instead you're like, no, you know,
Speaker 2: I know my truth. And now you've you know, you've
Speaker 2: done your healing and you're working. I see now with
Speaker 2: Tim's story, who's incredible.
Speaker 3: We love him.
Speaker 2: So you know to that, like, yes, you know, stand
Speaker 2: in your truth and empower those and help those because
Speaker 2: I do know the women that are afraid to get
Speaker 2: out because of an abusive partner. So to that, you know,
Speaker 2: I empathize with that piece of it, for sure, is.
Speaker 3: The freedom for you? And then I promise in Kingdon,
Speaker 3: is the freedom for you? The truth? This truth seeking
Speaker 3: in an attempt to get your kids back, because I
Speaker 3: can imagine publicly, it's a very public thing that you're doing.
Speaker 3: So the documentary obviously is public and I'm I wondered
Speaker 3: if that was a way to lean into resources that
Speaker 3: allow you to start to get some of these things
Speaker 3: proven so that the goal is to just be back
Speaker 3: with your kids. Is that what's happening because you don't
Speaker 3: see you only get to talk to them once a week. Still,
Speaker 3: is that correct? That's terrible. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to talk to them once a week, but
Speaker 1: he doesn't tend to follow court orders, so at the moment,
Speaker 1: I speak to them once a month.
Speaker 3: So if this, if this truth, your truth, is proven
Speaker 3: to be the truth, does that give you some leverage
Speaker 3: to be able to get your kids back? Is that
Speaker 3: in your brain? Is this how everything starts to unlock.
Speaker 1: I don't need leverage to get my kids back. My
Speaker 1: charge was from a crime that was committed in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: and as the courts have stated, we don't take children
Speaker 1: away from lying. So I'm hopeful the reason why I
Speaker 1: don't see if my children is because I went to prison.
Speaker 3: And you shouldn't though you know what I'm saying, Shure,
Speaker 3: absolutely you shouldn't. You know, So, is there a world
Speaker 3: where you get to have your kids back? This is
Speaker 3: the part out of all the shary things. I really
Speaker 3: went deep into Little Sherry because I resonated deeply there
Speaker 3: and then I resonate with the fact that you're a
Speaker 3: mother that doesn't get to see kids, and I can't
Speaker 3: imagine that feeling.
Speaker 1: Well, the trial. We have to have a trial. So
Speaker 1: there's a process when you go through the family court system,
Speaker 1: and it's it's a lengthy process. I'm sure you have
Speaker 1: friends and family that have gone through family court. It's
Speaker 1: it's really it's one of the hardest things that people
Speaker 1: can go through. Is not just you know, when you
Speaker 1: when you have an amical or breakup, you don't see
Speaker 1: family court. So when you have healthy people and there's
Speaker 1: not abuse and there's not toxicity, you don't see those
Speaker 1: in family court. They just amicably split outside of court.
Speaker 1: So generally, those that you see in the family court system,
Speaker 1: it's evident that there's some kind of toxicity or some
Speaker 1: kind of abuse happening, otherwise you wouldn't see them. So
Speaker 1: the lengthy process of going through prison, getting out of prison,
Speaker 1: starting the process of getting the trial, it's all taken time.
Speaker 1: So the conclusion of my trial is in August, and
Speaker 1: then I'm hopeful there will be a shift in custody.
Speaker 1: It's because it's taken so long, there's going to need
Speaker 1: to be like a step up program to reunify with
Speaker 1: my children. But in terms of regaining my custody. I'm hopeful.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be a problem.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, fingers crossed for that, because as mama's I
Speaker 2: can't even imagine, like literally cannot imagine that piece. And
Speaker 2: I don't think courts should take kids away unless it's
Speaker 2: obviously an abusive sord you know, actual situation. So danger, yeah, danger, Yeah,
Speaker 2: Well I can't imagine. You know, I know you've got
Speaker 2: a lot going on. You have what is you have
Speaker 2: something else coming out right as well?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just read a book, okay.
Speaker 2: And that will there be more things in that that
Speaker 2: are not that wasn't on the documentaries.
Speaker 1: Oh toens. I mean, this is this is my my words,
Speaker 1: and it's my story. It's my journey unedited without the
Speaker 1: editing process and without the constraints of having to try
Speaker 1: and bring somebody else's side on. For example, this is
Speaker 1: just me and it's it's my entire adult life from
Speaker 1: my marriage on you has been this self discovery for me,
Speaker 1: this journey being steeped in therapy and understanding who I
Speaker 1: am and the choices that I've made and where I've
Speaker 1: come from, and understanding authentically who I am. So it's
Speaker 1: I think it's quite a lot of just personal.
Speaker 2: About me, and that is the Scherry Peppinie doesn't exist,
Speaker 2: a lie that defined me, the media that destroyed me,
Speaker 2: and the truth that no one has heard.
Speaker 3: It is available now. Awesome. Thank you so much, Sherry.
Speaker 3: Appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for having me.
Speaker 2: All Right, Hi, Cherry, so I listen. I think it's
Speaker 2: I think it's a tangled it's it's tangled that that's
Speaker 2: her truth. That's a terrible I mean, I can't even
Speaker 2: imagine being abducted. I think what's hard is the lie
Speaker 2: in the beginning I had. I couldn't imagine lying to
Speaker 2: an officer, you know, like when an officer came to
Speaker 2: my place when the guy tried to kill me.
Speaker 3: It's like there it was word for war, because it's like,
Speaker 3: so I'm going to say something that's a little this
Speaker 3: isn't this has I have no degree in psychology at all.
Speaker 3: I know what you'r. I know I knew where you
Speaker 3: were always going with it, and I agree with that.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to ask the question to her, but
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure if we could get there with her.
Speaker 3: In my brain there is a unhealed unjustified incident that
Speaker 3: might have landed And I am not saying I believe her,
Speaker 3: don't believe her. It's whatever that might have landed on
Speaker 3: this James character. And the quest for justice is not
Speaker 3: always is not solely about James the person. It is
Speaker 3: about all of this retroactive stuff that happened to her
Speaker 3: that never got clarity. Yeah, and I think no matter
Speaker 3: who Sharey is now the forty three year old, and
Speaker 3: I can resonate with a lot of peace of that,
Speaker 3: there is a deep need for immediate mental and physical
Speaker 3: support for children that go through any abuse period. And
Speaker 3: I am passionate about that because it will change the
Speaker 3: trajectory of their lives. So if they get nothing else
Speaker 3: out of this media, that is what I hope they get. Amen,
Speaker 3: one thousand percent couldn't agree with you more