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Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.

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Speaker 2: All right, So I gotta be honest, I'm having a

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Speaker 2: difficult time with this because as an interviewer, you should

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Speaker 2: have an unbiased opinion.

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Speaker 3: I believe. I believe that just interview somebody, yep.

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Speaker 2: I think that you should not come in with judgment,

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Speaker 2: not come in with preconceived opinions. And most of the time,

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Speaker 2: like you know, when we've had people like Whitney on

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Speaker 2: who was very much like she was the.

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Speaker 3: How do we say that?

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Speaker 2: Like the what would they call her on that the

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Speaker 2: first season of The Secret Antagonist? Yeah, and it's like

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Speaker 2: where we could go in and be like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: don't really know about her and we might feel it,

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Speaker 2: but you still want to be warm and kind and

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Speaker 2: give her the platform to be able to say what

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Speaker 2: she wants to say. Yeah, have her truth, her story.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like that should go. I mean, the

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Speaker 2: best people that I've seen interview, like a Barbara Walters,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's like they I don't feel like they ever.

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Speaker 3: From what I.

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Speaker 2: Watched as a kid watching twenty twenty, I never really

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Speaker 2: saw them having judgment. I would agree, right, Okay, So

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Speaker 2: with this it's like, I know we're a podcast, but

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Speaker 2: we're still interviewing. Yeah, And I'm having a difficult time

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Speaker 2: with this. If I'm honest with you and.

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Speaker 3: This, I really just want to go on the record

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Speaker 3: for saying that you and I watched this entire documentary,

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Speaker 3: but we have not spoken at all at all. We

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Speaker 3: have not about this. So I don't know how you're

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Speaker 3: entering this and you don't even have to tell me. Now,

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Speaker 3: I think my I think you'll be surprised.

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Speaker 2: Let me be honest, and I'll be I'll be straight

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Speaker 2: up honest with this, because again I'm teetering the line

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Speaker 2: between I listen, I am no Barbara Walters, Okay, I

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Speaker 2: have this podcast, and I think there's a difference between.

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Speaker 2: I think it's two things can be true at once, right,

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Speaker 2: So it's like, I have this podcast, and I have

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Speaker 2: my opinions about certain things, and I want to be

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Speaker 2: in to interview and give people the chance to have

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Speaker 2: their voices heard. Having said that, when I got this

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Speaker 2: request for this interview, I said, no, that was actually

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Speaker 2: going to be one of my questions to you. I said,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to have her on. Can I ask

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Speaker 2: why I don't believe her and it triggers something in

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Speaker 2: me to have someone that lies given something that is

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Speaker 2: freshly going on right now too. I have a and listen,

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Speaker 2: I have lied countless times in my past. I am

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Speaker 2: not by any means a saint or like I have

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Speaker 2: lie to people's faces. I've in my day back in

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Speaker 2: the day, like having said that I have, you know,

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Speaker 2: done my work and all the healing and all the things.

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Speaker 2: But when I when I kind of started to research

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Speaker 2: and then I watched the documentary, I was like, I

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Speaker 2: wondered if this would be hard for you because of that,

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Speaker 2: it triggers something post Mike Liars, I'm like, you're done.

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Speaker 2: You're done to me, You're dead to me, like you're

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Speaker 2: I just I can see right through what you're doing,

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Speaker 2: through the laugh, through the smile, like there's just And

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Speaker 2: then so much so that something has recently happened with

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Speaker 2: like a month or so ago, where this person was

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Speaker 2: straight up lying and I'm watching it happen. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I know because I have proof, and you're lying through

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Speaker 2: your teeth right now. And it's like it then tended

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Speaker 2: to have people then to tended to be interviewing someone

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Speaker 2: that is a known liar.

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Speaker 3: A federally accused and found guilty liar. I'm just like,

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Speaker 3: like lied to the FBI coming.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to sit in front of someone to

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Speaker 2: be lied to again like I did it for years.

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Speaker 2: I had someone lie to me for years to my face.

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Speaker 2: I'm done, Like, I don't want to. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to be like lied to. I feel that's my frustration

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Speaker 2: and I'm making basing it. No, No, I felt the

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Speaker 2: same thing. I started watching the documentary and I was like,

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Speaker 2: I don't even want to give this chick my time.

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Speaker 3: But I will tell you. I think you'll be surprised

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Speaker 3: at some compassion I have found where with miss Sherry.

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Speaker 3: Really which piece you'll see?

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, okay, Well she's here, feed breaths, Let's

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Speaker 2: get her.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Hi, how are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm good? How are you?

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Speaker 3: I am good? Cherry? We have a lot of questions.

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Speaker 2: First, not the only one, so yeah, and first and foremost,

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Speaker 2: I just want to I'm curious because you know, obviously

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Speaker 2: we watched the documentary. What and from what I've been

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Speaker 2: told is that you didn't have editorial rights in piecing

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Speaker 2: that together. So I'm curious as let's take you out

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Speaker 2: of the equation, right, and you were a viewer sitting

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Speaker 2: on the couch watching this show, how how do you

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Speaker 2: think you were perceived in that and what as a

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Speaker 2: viewer would you be thinking watching it?

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Speaker 1: Well, I watched at the same time that everybody else

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Speaker 1: watched it, and that was absolutely terrifying because I had

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Speaker 1: no idea how the edits were going to come together.

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Speaker 1: I certainly knew what my interviews were like. It was

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Speaker 1: a year long process, and I knew what I had

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Speaker 1: gone through and the excruciating process that I went through

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Speaker 1: creating the film, but I had absolutely no idea how

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Speaker 1: it was going to be edited and my direction sure

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Speaker 1: that I worked with she continued to say, you know,

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Speaker 1: we are going to do something very balanced, right, And

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Speaker 1: so the primary objective of Sherry Pepini Cotton a Lie

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Speaker 1: was every time you had something that made me look good,

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Speaker 1: they had to balance it with something that would make

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Speaker 1: me look bad. For me, that's really scary because when

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Speaker 1: you go in with this negative bias of how I've

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Speaker 1: appeared online and the the reputation that I've had out there,

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Speaker 1: it already kind of tips the scales a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So it was pretty heartbreaking to watch for me to

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Speaker 1: watch how it came together. I'm proud of what I

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Speaker 1: contributed to it, and I'm proud of even the you know,

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Speaker 1: the moments that unfortunately are twisted or whatever, Like it's

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Speaker 1: still all me in there, and it's still incredibly vulnerable,

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Speaker 1: and I'm happy with what I can attributed to it.

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Speaker 3: Do you feel like it was balanced?

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Speaker 1: Well, again, I think when you already go into something

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Speaker 1: with a level of negative bias, I think it generally

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Speaker 1: can tip the scales one way or another. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think so, Yeah, I think so.

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Speaker 3: I have Okay, So the one question that burns in

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Speaker 3: me is a pretty intimate and it's a pretty heavy one.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know how. I guess you can just

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Speaker 3: say pass if you prefer not to, but I know,

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Speaker 3: don't brace yourself. I'm a kind human, so I'm like

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Speaker 3: the I'm not one that's going to like attack, so

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Speaker 3: the compassion part of me. So I watched the whole thing,

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Speaker 3: and I felt like there was a part that they

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Speaker 3: maybe didn't give enough time to, and that would be

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Speaker 3: the childhood trauma piece and the sexual assault in your

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Speaker 3: early I know you said early double digits, so maybe

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Speaker 3: ten eleven, twelve, and so my question because I think

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Speaker 3: that this deserves a little space because it sets a

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Speaker 3: tone for all of your life, in my opinion, and

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Speaker 3: I have childhood trauma as well. It is not as

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Speaker 3: significant is something as that, but I know how it

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Speaker 3: has shaped me. The way I see things, the way

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Speaker 3: I do things, the justice I seek, my inability to

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Speaker 3: tolerate liars. That's no offense to our present guest, but

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Speaker 3: there is things that trigger me because of the way

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Speaker 3: I grew up. Do you feel like there was justice

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Speaker 3: in the sexual assault that happened to you early on,

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Speaker 3: because in the way the film is telling the story,

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Speaker 3: it was kind of swept under the rug. It felt

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Speaker 3: like this family never talked about it, which I would say,

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Speaker 3: we're the same age, so I would say that that

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Speaker 3: generation of parenting is pretty good at sweeping and not

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Speaker 3: identifying and not really digging in. But I am now,

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Speaker 3: I'm a mother of a nine year old, and I

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Speaker 3: can't imagine that I am in your father's place and

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Speaker 3: I walk in, as it's told on the documentary, he

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Speaker 3: walks in to find this person sexually assaulting his daughter,

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Speaker 3: and then there's not some sort of really deep dive

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Speaker 3: into you as a human and as a little girl,

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Speaker 3: little Sherry, and we're not working through that. So do

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Speaker 3: you feel is there any parts of those stories that

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Speaker 3: you want to retell? I don't want to make you

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Speaker 3: live a trauma, So that's why I'm careful in the

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Speaker 3: way I'm wording this. But I'm really super interested in

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Speaker 3: the non resolution that you got out of that maybe,

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Speaker 3: and how that could further shape all of these events

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Speaker 3: that now all of America is involved in.

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Speaker 1: I would say, for me, certainly, the bravery that it

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Speaker 1: took for my parents to even speak about that, to

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable coming out and being able to share that

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Speaker 1: very deeply rooted family secret, that a significant amount of

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Speaker 1: healing happened. So after I got out of prison and

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Speaker 1: I moved back in with my mom and dad, you know,

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Speaker 1: we were able to have family dinner every night, we

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Speaker 1: were able to really dig very deep into therapy together,

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Speaker 1: and this beautiful healing, blossoming relationship occurred. And to me,

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Speaker 1: that's really what I've always desired and what I've always needed.

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Speaker 1: Coming out in a film that's going to be seen

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Speaker 1: by millions of people, and my parents being willing to

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Speaker 1: speak on what happened to me, that's it's pretty incredible.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty incredible because there's you know, certainly with my dad,

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Speaker 1: he's carried around this tremendous guilt and this tremendous shame.

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Speaker 1: Because we're older, it's not like there's anything that we

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Speaker 1: even can do about it other than heal talk about it.

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Speaker 1: He's given me a tre tremendous amount of grace with

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Speaker 1: how it happened and the sweeping it under the rug

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Speaker 1: and not talking about it when we were that age.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about it now though, and it's become quite

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Speaker 1: a comfortable conversation with my parents, and I'm really I'm

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Speaker 1: really happy with the relationship that I have with the

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Speaker 1: trauma now.

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Speaker 3: I know that this is kind of a hindsight question,

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Speaker 3: so this may not be something you can even answer,

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Speaker 3: but one of the psychologists in the film talks about

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Speaker 3: how if that trauma, that trauma was not dealt with

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Speaker 3: appropriately at the time, and how that does and we

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Speaker 3: all know that just from existing in the world, if

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Speaker 3: little Sherry was to get the treatment she needed and

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Speaker 3: the healing and the emotional and mental support at the

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Speaker 3: time of that incident, do you think that shapes who

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Speaker 3: you are now differently? And do we think that we

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Speaker 3: even know who you are, because in my brain, I

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Speaker 3: don't even think we know who you are if you

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Speaker 3: had gotten the support at that time that you should

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Speaker 3: have gotten and is that I you know?

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Speaker 2: And the thing too, to add on to that, it's

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Speaker 2: like your friends from school were saying, you know, she

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Speaker 2: was always saying she was going to leave and then

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Speaker 2: make up lies and she was always lying about about stuff.

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Speaker 2: Do you think those lies came because of that on

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Speaker 2: field trauma?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think when the news story broke and everything

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Speaker 1: came out, everyone wanted to jump on the bandwagon. So

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Speaker 1: you know, you went to middle school, you went to

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Speaker 1: high school. We weren't friends with everybody that we met.

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Speaker 1: We weren't friends with everyone that we interacted with in school,

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Speaker 1: and so when you have AM it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: confirmation bias. Right. So, if this is a particular story,

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Speaker 1: if I have something that I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: that's in the avenue of the story, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: call and talk about what I have that contributes to

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Speaker 1: the story. There's so much more to my life and

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Speaker 1: there's so much more to the depth of my relationships.

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Speaker 1: But it's like when they pick out certain things just

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Speaker 1: to fixate on this one issue that I had. It

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Speaker 1: makes it really difficult because it's like there's other people

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Speaker 1: in my life that I've had these exceptional relationships with,

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Speaker 1: or even tumultuous tumultuous relationships with, and some of these

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Speaker 1: people that came forward like they've done really terrible things

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Speaker 1: and they are really horrible people, and now I have

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Speaker 1: to come back and I have to be able to

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Speaker 1: clean it up. And you know, there's a great example

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Speaker 1: is there's an ex boyfriend that went on and said, oh,

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Speaker 1: she just likes to make up stories. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you were cheating on your fiance and I didn't even

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Speaker 1: know you were engaged, and yet you're being brought up

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Speaker 1: in these news stories about me without evidence and just

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Speaker 1: trying to trash me, when it's like your life is

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Speaker 1: so incredibly horrific in and out of itself. So it's

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Speaker 1: it's really I feel so mean girled all the time,

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Speaker 1: and I feel so picked on all the time by

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Speaker 1: these people who are just getting up and giving their

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Speaker 1: opinion without even providing evidence of it. It's just like

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Speaker 1: rumor after rumor after rumor, and I've continued to try

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Speaker 1: and demonstrate my remorse and my accountability for what I've done.

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Speaker 1: But I'm done taking too much accountability and i am

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Speaker 1: done trying to continue to defend myself when people come

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Speaker 1: out with things that are just not true about me.

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Speaker 2: I think, honestly my interaction and watching it, I still

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Speaker 2: was just having the hardest time trying to understand why

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Speaker 2: the lie in the beginning. And I'm still kind of

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Speaker 2: confused on that piece because I'm like, if I and

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Speaker 2: I get, you know, to an extent, some of the

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Speaker 2: stuff you were talking about, but it's like, if I

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Speaker 2: knew I was gonna, did you have I guess I'm

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Speaker 2: just I guess I'm just confused. I guess I'm just

253
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Speaker 2: lost on why why even lie? Make up this thing?

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Speaker 2: Because I'm like, you make up a lie because you're

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Speaker 2: trying to cover a shame piece. You're trying to cover

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Speaker 2: up something that's That's when I lied. I lied to

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Speaker 2: an ext boyfriend that I cheated on because I didn't

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Speaker 2: want him to know the truth that I that I cheated,

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Speaker 2: you know, and I made up this elaborate lie to

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Speaker 2: cover up my own shame stuff. And so you know,

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Speaker 2: that was what back in my twenties. But still it's

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Speaker 2: like with this situation. It's like I still just don't

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Speaker 2: understand why, Like I just I don't know if I

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Speaker 2: I just don't understand that. I don't. I don't understand

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Speaker 2: where the lie even started. It was like a bad

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Speaker 2: plan gone wrong, like did because obviously you were texting

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Speaker 2: with this guy. I know you said it led to

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Speaker 2: something else, but there's it's just doesn't something about it

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Speaker 2: just I don't. It doesn't make sense. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's maybe why other people don't believe the story, because

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Speaker 2: it doesn't. It's hard to make sense of it.

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Speaker 1: The narrative that's out there prior to me coming forward

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Speaker 1: is the part that doesn't make sense. I think now

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Speaker 1: that I've come forward, and now that I'm able to

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Speaker 1: be able to speak on what happened, it tracks and

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Speaker 1: it aligns and it fills in all of the gaps

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Speaker 1: of the why and the confusion. And are you talking

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Speaker 1: about the Hulu documentary that you watched or the HBO documentary? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So for me, you know, I was carrying on this

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Speaker 1: emotional affair and I got in over my head and

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Speaker 1: was in a very dangerous situation, and then coming out

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Speaker 1: of it and going back home, I was too afraid

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Speaker 1: to tell my ex husband that I was having an

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Speaker 1: emotional affair, and the story that was made up to

285
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Speaker 1: cover up his identity, And that's all my story is.

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Speaker 1: I've always maintained that I was kidnapped and tortured and brutalized,

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Speaker 1: always continue to say that that is what happened. I

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Speaker 1: was just too afraid to come out and talk about

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Speaker 1: his identity. I was too afraid because James was watching.

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Speaker 1: I was afraid because I had already lied to law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: and I was terrified to tell my ex husband that

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Speaker 1: I was having an emotional affair. Because what you see

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Speaker 1: is happening right now. There's bits and pieces and details

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Speaker 1: of my marriage that are starting to come out now,

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Speaker 1: particularly starting with the documentary of the coercive control and

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Speaker 1: the abuse that I was suffering in my marriage. And

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Speaker 1: that's really all it was. I got into a dangerous

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Speaker 1: situation and I was too afraid to tell my ex

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Speaker 1: husband that I was having an emotional affair. And now

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Speaker 1: I'm not married anymore, and I'm not ashamed anymore, and

301
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Speaker 1: I've taken accountability for what I've done, and so I'm

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Speaker 1: able to very clearly talk about what happened, and why

303
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Speaker 1: the lie was created, and how I'm picking up the

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Speaker 1: pieces and rebuilding my life and moving forward from what happened.

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Speaker 3: What were you afraid Keith would do if you told

306
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:09,239
Speaker 3: him the truth before this abduction, if you were to

307
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,760
Speaker 3: just come because there's burner phones involved, So this is

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Speaker 3: next level, sister. We got to be honest. Like I've

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Speaker 3: we're in the music industry, We've seen some shady things,

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Speaker 3: but like the burner.

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Speaker 2: Phone was a sex addict, so he had the burner phones.

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Speaker 2: Like there's a level of like deep.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I want to know what were you nervous

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Speaker 3: would happen? What would Keith do that you were nervous

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Speaker 3: of if you were to tell the truth to him.

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Speaker 1: It's what you're seeing right now. So after after the

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Speaker 1: details started to come out and I was arrested and

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Speaker 1: I was released from jail, my defense attorney had a

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Speaker 1: meeting with Keith and was trying to get him to

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Speaker 1: understand why we would be taking a plea agreement rather

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Speaker 1: than going to trial. And he let out a little

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Speaker 1: detail that about the burner phones that I had been

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Speaker 1: keeping secret from my ex husband and called me right

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Speaker 1: away and said sorry, I really I didn't mean to

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Speaker 1: do this, but he's on the way and he's pissed,

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Speaker 1: so please be careful. I don't really know what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen, but he's really upset. So I took my

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Speaker 1: phone when he showed up, I hit record, and I

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Speaker 1: split it under the bed. And what happened after that

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Speaker 1: was Keith said, Okay, here's what's going to happen. I

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Speaker 1: want you to sign all of these unfair agreements. I

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Speaker 1: want you to sign your rights away to your custody

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Speaker 1: and to all of the assets in our marriage. And

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Speaker 1: when you come out and when you're ready to sell

335
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 1: the story, I get control of it. So if you

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00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: sign this contract and you sign all of these agreements,

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Speaker 1: you can come home, but I'm in complete control of everything,

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00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,440
Speaker 1: and you can live in the guest bedroom. And if

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00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:53,240
Speaker 1: you apologize to me every day and I believe that

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00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,720
Speaker 1: you've earned the right to our marriage, then you can

341
00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 1: come in and we can rekindle our marriage. And at

342
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,400
Speaker 1: that point, I was living with my sister in law already.

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Speaker 1: It was after my arrest, and I was preparing to

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Speaker 1: go to prison, and I was preparing to sign a

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Speaker 1: plea agreement, and I had finally gotten the strength to say, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. I'm not going back home. I

347
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 1: now see what it feels like to be without you,

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Speaker 1: and that I'm going to survive. And I knew I

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Speaker 1: was going to prison, which was the safest that I

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Speaker 1: felt in sixteen years. And so I didn't sign. And

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Speaker 1: he threatened me and said, if you don't sign, then

352
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Speaker 1: I'm bringing the entire world down on your head, which

353
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 1: won't be hard, because you're Shery Peppini and everyone loves

354
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,959
Speaker 1: me and I'm the hero and this is all I have.

355
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 1: It it's all recorded, and he says, if you don't

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Speaker 1: sign the agreement, you don't do what I want, I

357
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Speaker 1: will be taking your children from you, which won't be hard,

358
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Speaker 1: and I will completely obliterate your life, turn the media

359
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 1: on you, change your entire family's perspective on you. If

360
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Speaker 1: you sign this, I will lie for you. If you

361
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,639
Speaker 1: sign this and come home and shut your mouth and

362
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 1: give me all the control, you'll have your kids and

363
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Speaker 1: you'll have everything. And I didn't sign it, and I

364
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 1: went to prison instead, and he did exactly what he

365
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Speaker 1: threatened to do. He's taken custody, full custody of my children.

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Speaker 1: He has absolutely everything. I lost my trial and the

367
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 1: divorce and the separation of assets because he had the

368
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: trial while I was in prison. He's ruined relationships in

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Speaker 1: my life and manipulated using my crime against me in

370
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Speaker 1: every way. So the post separation abuse that I'm experiencing

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Speaker 1: now you're seeing firsthand, and everything that he's threatened to do.

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Speaker 1: He did everything that I was afraid of happening. He's

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Speaker 1: done and continues to do.

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Speaker 3: Why did he create a post up? Because that's a

375
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,919
Speaker 3: very that's not a common thing to have in a marriage,

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Speaker 3: especially a healthy marriage. I mean, if my husband slides

377
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 3: to me a post up, now, I'm like I gave

378
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 3: ax a post up when he was rehob right, That's why.

379
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 3: So I so the viewer side of this and this

380
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 3: is just me and I promise I actually have this

381
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 3: is I'm not on a side because they did to

382
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 3: me a very fair job of balancing you, and I

383
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,120
Speaker 3: felt like the only thing that was a little imbalanced

384
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 3: is me getting a little more backstory, and like, why

385
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 3: Sherry is the way Sherry is. That's why I wanted

386
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 3: to lead with the question about your youth, because I

387
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 3: think it does determine so much of our older years.

388
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Speaker 3: But when someone is coming to you with a post up,

389
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 3: it's usually because there's already been some sort of something

390
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 3: that's a red flag to him, whether it's infidelity or

391
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 3: lying or something, and you signed it. So can you

392
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 3: expand on why there was one?

393
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Speaker 1: What?

394
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Speaker 3: Because I because it's easy to divorce someone and get

395
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 3: all the assets when they're in prison. A But when

396
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 3: they're in prison and they've already signed off that they

397
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 3: can have everything, you can that he could literally have

398
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 3: everything because you've already agreed upon that legally before while

399
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 3: you were married.

400
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 1: Well, Puppini has changed his story quite a lot. So

401
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: when you see him in interrogation room, see him on

402
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: the stand in court, and see him in his documentary,

403
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: he says three different stories. So the first one is

404
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 1: that I was bad with money and he wanted to

405
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: make sure that he separated the assets because I was

406
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 1: bad with money. The second story is that he just

407
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: wanted to protect his own assets. And the third story

408
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: is that he caught me text messaging another man. So,

409
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Speaker 1: to be frank with you, I think the post nuptial

410
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: agreement was designed to continue to have to demonstrate a

411
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: level of control. Why he actually decided to do it.

412
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: I think it could be a myriad of reasons. When

413
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: you do a post nuptial agreement, generally you're supposed to

414
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: have dual representation, meaning a lawyer for him and a

415
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: lawyer for me, and I didn't get that. I didn't

416
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to have my own representation, and so

417
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: the post nuptial agreement technically should be considered invalid. It

418
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: was drawn up by Keith himself, so it was a

419
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 1: pretty flimsy contract in general, and I didn't have the

420
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: option to not sign it. Not signing it meant I

421
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: had to get out, and I had to move out

422
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: of my home, and there wasn't a lot of I

423
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: didn't have a voice. I didn't get to say, okay,

424
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 1: well this is unfair. And and when it was created

425
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: it was prior to having kids, even it was never updated,

426
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: and it was a really unfair agreement that I didn't

427
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 1: have a lot of choice in.

428
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 3: Were you texting another guy? Though?

429
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 2: Like?

430
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 3: Was that truth?

431
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 1: I mean I there was no a built Yes I was,

432
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: but I was also texting females like there. It wasn't

433
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: about a guy, It was about not having friends that

434
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,719
Speaker 1: he didn't have control over when we say emotional affair.

435
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 1: I was desperate to have an emotional connection with someone.

436
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: I was desperate to have conversation with someone. Didn't matter

437
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: to me. Whether it was a male or female. That

438
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 1: mattered to Keith. And it's not like I was able

439
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 1: to just go to Starbucks and make new friends or something.

440
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: I had an incredibly oppressive life, so it didn't matter

441
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 1: whether it was male or female. Everything had to be

442
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: run through him and it had to be vetted. So

443
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: regardless of whether it was a male, which was unacceptable

444
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: to him, if one of my girlfriends didn't meet a

445
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: level of status, if they were overweight, if they were gay,

446
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: if they were whatever Keith had on his list, I

447
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: was not allowed to be friends with them. So it's

448
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: not like his only issue was that I was texting men.

449
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: That's just part of the story.

450
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 3: But the text messages found on the phone that was

451
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 3: left the day of the abduction were romantic in nature

452
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 3: with men.

453
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: How do you hear that?

454
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 3: Well, So that's what the FBI said, I believe, wasn't

455
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 3: it They the police department. It's in one of those The.

456
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: Phone was never found. The FBI didn't.

457
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 3: No, no, nor your cell phone, the one that was found.

458
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 2: I had the hair strand like perfectly curled up in

459
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 2: the year.

460
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 3: It said that there was conversation. It was in one

461
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 3: of the interrogation like films of the police department's interview

462
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 3: with you. They talked about that there were numbers saved

463
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 3: in your phone that were but it had female names.

464
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 3: Female names were actually and romantic, which I did like that.

465
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 3: They noted that because not to throw you under the

466
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: bus it was. I liked that they noted that because

467
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 3: anybody could do that if you are in a controlling relationship.

468
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 3: Any man that texts you could be alarming to a

469
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 3: husband that is an abusive husband. But they said they

470
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 3: specifically they were romantic in nature. So there was more

471
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 3: than James.

472
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was. There was, And you know, I think

473
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: it's really about where you judge that I did have

474
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: what's considered emotional affairs with another man when it's considered

475
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: romantic in nature, I think you really kind of have

476
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: to break down your level of degree there, because there's

477
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: also text messages from my girlfriends saying the exact same thing.

478
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,719
Speaker 1: So if you were to send me a text message

479
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: this morning and say good morning, beautiful, it would be

480
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: the same thing as a text message from someone else

481
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: when you say romantic in nature, there's another tax thing.

482
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 3: I don't know.

483
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: I think if someone texts my phone and says good morning,

484
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: beautiful and it's a man, I think that's crossing a line. Personally,

485
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: if my husband saw that, that would not be appropriate. Yeah,

486
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 2: you text me all the time good morning, Yeah, like

487
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: great love. But like I that's where I respectfully don't

488
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 2: see how that's the same thing.

489
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 3: I would say this. Is there a point, because Sherry,

490
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 3: you are still a human, so I promise you I

491
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 3: am being as objective as empathetic as I can be

492
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 3: for the whole story. Is there a point pre abduction

493
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 3: where you were like in over your head, exhausted. I mean,

494
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 3: this has to weigh on you too. We've got texts

495
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 3: coming in from guys. We're hiding them under girl names

496
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 3: for whatever reason. All of that is heavy. Sherry is

497
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 3: still a person and a mom at this place in

498
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 3: the story. I mean, you're still a person in a

499
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 3: mom but I mean pre abduction that is so heavy.

500
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 3: Is there a point ever where you're like, I just

501
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 3: want out of all of Like how do I get

502
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 3: out of all of this? Because that's a lot to

503
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 3: keep up with too, and you're seeking emotional and I

504
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 3: have been there at times, not in this marriage, previous

505
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 3: relationships where I have felt a little bit of that

506
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 3: and so, but I also just know the tax it

507
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 3: takes on a human body and your spirit and your mind,

508
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 3: and it's exhausting to keep up with all of that.

509
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 3: Is there a point where you're like, I just want

510
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 3: out of all Like, how do I get out of

511
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 3: all of this? And is that where this this James

512
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 3: situation comes in, where you are now entertaining the thought

513
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 3: of him, you guys being together and doing a trip

514
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 3: to northern or southern California? Is that the breaking point

515
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 3: for you or you? Like I just like, is anything

516
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 3: better than where I'm at?

517
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: I was incredibly miserable in my marriage at the time.

518
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: I was seeking so much more external validation than internal validation,

519
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: Like I really didn't understand.

520
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 2: And by the way, a lot of people can relate

521
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 2: to that, Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's like I

522
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: can relate to that. I can relate to that too,

523
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 2: Like if I had something in front of you my

524
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 2: last marriage, like, yeah, I almost you know, I probably

525
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 2: could have and especially the emotion of part so bad.

526
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 3: That's why I relate on that that part. I think

527
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 3: I can relate to that a little bit, not to

528
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 3: the extent, but enough that I'm like, I see, and

529
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 3: then it starts to go too far, because these guys

530
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 3: are going to fall further fall in love with you.

531
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: I my marriage was falling apart already, and then I

532
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: had two children, and so I was incredibly miserable. I really,

533
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: I hadn't started therapy. Then I was incredibly emotionally immature

534
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: and very stented. And again with like the seeking the

535
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: external validation rather the internal validation. What I knew is

536
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: that I was really miserable and I didn't understand, frankly,

537
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: how to maturely cope with that. And there are a

538
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: lot of mistakes that I made and a lot of

539
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: regrets that I have. And you know, with the emotional affairs,

540
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: to me, they seemed safe and they see deemed less

541
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: than having a physical affair. I understand that differently now,

542
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: and I take full accountability for that. I really do

543
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: understand that. You know, it wasn't right to be having

544
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: an emotional affair. What would have been right would have

545
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: been ending my marriage rather than doing that. What would

546
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: have been right was understanding that I'm valuable and where

547
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: my value person as a person stands. But I was

548
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: always trying to find a plan. It's very complicated when

549
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,959
Speaker 1: you have children. It's very complicated when you have someone,

550
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: when you're married to someone with the status that they

551
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: have in the town that you live in, and not

552
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: necessarily having a family support system that I had, having

553
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: been alienated from my parents as well, I didn't really

554
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: know where to go and where to turn with that,

555
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: and I did want to get out, and in terms

556
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: of my emotional affair with James, there was no plan

557
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: to go to southern California, and so starting my emotional

558
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: fair with James, to me, it felt safe because he

559
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: lived in southern California and there was no intention to

560
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: go anywhere with him. There was an intention to meet

561
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: up with him in town and to end that engagement

562
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: and to end because you're right, When you have an

563
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: emotional affairs, someone gets feelings and they get deeper feelings,

564
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: and that's what was happening. What was happening is James

565
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: wanted more than I was willing to give. For me,

566
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: it was just I just need a little text message.

567
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: I just need a little validation. I needed a little

568
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: bit of emotional connection, because I mean, my husband had

569
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: a rule that I wasn't even allowed to speak to

570
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,479
Speaker 1: him past six o'clock at night. So it was like

571
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: I didn't have friends and I didn't have this. I

572
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: thought that getting married met you married your best friend,

573
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: and I thought that getting married was something completely different

574
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: than what I had experienced, And to me, having that

575
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: little bit of connection with somebody was really what I

576
00:32:55,080 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: needed and understanding it now, you know, it's really sad.

577
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: It's incredibly sad that I didn't have enough confidence and

578
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: I didn't have enough self respect to just be able

579
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: to walk away from the marriage and the courage that

580
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: it took to walk away from the marriage that I'm

581
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: doing now.

582
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think so many women can relate to

583
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 2: that piece of that, and we've all been in that well,

584
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: a lot of us have been in that situation where it's,

585
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 2: you know, where that we can relate to that. I

586
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 2: guess my final question is just, you know, because of

587
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 2: what happened and with James, are you now wanting to

588
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: seek because I did like with that. I don't know

589
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: if he was the DA or who he was an investigator,

590
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: but he basically was like, you know, she's going to

591
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: need a confession both verbally and written down from like

592
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 2: the wolf itself, because like she's the you know, the

593
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 2: girl who cried Wolf's like, you're going to need the

594
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 2: confession from the wolf actually saying I did X, Y,

595
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: and Z. Are you wanting to get actual proof of

596
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 2: what James did so so that you can be proven

597
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 2: telling the truth and that you're not lying again? Is

598
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 2: there even a world where there's possibility to get that

599
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 2: kind of proof from that.

600
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: First and foremost in the story of the Girl that

601
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: Cried Wolf? The girl still gets very hurt in that story,

602
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 1: regardless of the crying of the wolf. And yes, it's

603
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: highly unlikely that we're going to get a written confession,

604
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: but there's I mean, I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful James has

605
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: an ability to heal everybody in this story by coming forward.

606
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 1: He knows what he did. And in these other interviews

607
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: that I've had, one of the questions they ask is

608
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: are you afraid of defamation? And I'm not. I'm not

609
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: because we have that proof. You know, you say we

610
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: need the wolf's footprint. You literally have a photograph of

611
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: his footprint on my back. You have injuries that I

612
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly do myself. And when you look at these

613
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: photographs of my body, you dismiss them because you think

614
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: I I did it to myself, or you think that

615
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: I gave permission to do it to myself. And I'm

616
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: saying that I didn't. And so we do have that proof.

617
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: And James knows what he did. He knows that, and

618
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: that's why I think he's not going to come forward

619
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: because he has no alibi for consent, He has no

620
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: proof of consent. He has proof, and he stated in

621
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: his interrogation videos that he did, in fact do this

622
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: to my body, and he participated in it, and he

623
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: didn't get even as little as a conspiracy charge. You know.

624
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: When I was in prison, I met women who had

625
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: no idea what was happening. They had no idea drug

626
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: deal was even happening, but they happened to be in

627
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: a car and they got six years in prison, you know.

628
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: And James has continued to demonstrate culpability in my case,

629
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: and I am the only one that caught the charge

630
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: with it, and I wanted to take accountability for the

631
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: lie that I created to conceal his identity, and I

632
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: do feel like I have done that. There are other

633
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: key players here though, and James, there's so much evidence

634
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: to what happened to my body that I couldn't possibly

635
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: do myself.

636
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think that is was ever in question.

637
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 2: I think that was that for me asked him to

638
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 2: do that, Like I wouldn't think that you would do

639
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 2: that to yourself. It was that you asked and listen,

640
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 2: if that is the truth, like that is awful and

641
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry that you had to go through that experience.

642
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 2: If that is you know, the your truth in it,

643
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: like that is terrible. As a domestic balance survivor, that

644
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 2: is awful and I'm so sorry that you were in

645
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 2: that situation. I think what is hard for people that

646
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 2: have you know, watched the stuff is going, okay, well

647
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: she lied once you know, is what is the truth? Now?

648
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 2: Bottom line is there's the truth and then there's the

649
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 2: actual truth, right like there's your truth, there's his truth,

650
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 2: then there's the actual truth. And if this is the truth,

651
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: like that is awful and I'm so sorry that you

652
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 2: went through that. Bottom line and that sucks that you'll

653
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: never be able to to get that and listen. We

654
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 2: have people that talk about us all the time and

655
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: be like, oh she did this, and it's like, no,

656
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,919
Speaker 2: that's not true. But and you know, you can spend

657
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 2: the rest of your life trying to say, you know,

658
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: this is what's happened, but instead you're like, no, you know,

659
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: I know my truth. And now you've you know, you've

660
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: done your healing and you're working. I see now with

661
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 2: Tim's story, who's incredible.

662
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 3: We love him.

663
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: So you know to that, like, yes, you know, stand

664
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 2: in your truth and empower those and help those because

665
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 2: I do know the women that are afraid to get

666
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 2: out because of an abusive partner. So to that, you know,

667
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: I empathize with that piece of it, for sure, is.

668
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 3: The freedom for you? And then I promise in Kingdon,

669
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 3: is the freedom for you? The truth? This truth seeking

670
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 3: in an attempt to get your kids back, because I

671
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 3: can imagine publicly, it's a very public thing that you're doing.

672
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 3: So the documentary obviously is public and I'm I wondered

673
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 3: if that was a way to lean into resources that

674
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 3: allow you to start to get some of these things

675
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 3: proven so that the goal is to just be back

676
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 3: with your kids. Is that what's happening because you don't

677
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 3: see you only get to talk to them once a week. Still,

678
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 3: is that correct? That's terrible. I'm sorry.

679
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to talk to them once a week, but

680
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: he doesn't tend to follow court orders, so at the moment,

681
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: I speak to them once a month.

682
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 3: So if this, if this truth, your truth, is proven

683
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 3: to be the truth, does that give you some leverage

684
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 3: to be able to get your kids back? Is that

685
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 3: in your brain? Is this how everything starts to unlock.

686
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: I don't need leverage to get my kids back. My

687
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: charge was from a crime that was committed in twenty sixteen,

688
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: and as the courts have stated, we don't take children

689
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: away from lying. So I'm hopeful the reason why I

690
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: don't see if my children is because I went to prison.

691
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 3: And you shouldn't though you know what I'm saying, Shure,

692
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 3: absolutely you shouldn't. You know, So, is there a world

693
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 3: where you get to have your kids back? This is

694
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 3: the part out of all the shary things. I really

695
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 3: went deep into Little Sherry because I resonated deeply there

696
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 3: and then I resonate with the fact that you're a

697
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 3: mother that doesn't get to see kids, and I can't

698
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 3: imagine that feeling.

699
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: Well, the trial. We have to have a trial. So

700
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 1: there's a process when you go through the family court system,

701
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: and it's it's a lengthy process. I'm sure you have

702
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: friends and family that have gone through family court. It's

703
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: it's really it's one of the hardest things that people

704
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: can go through. Is not just you know, when you

705
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: when you have an amical or breakup, you don't see

706
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: family court. So when you have healthy people and there's

707
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: not abuse and there's not toxicity, you don't see those

708
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,919
Speaker 1: in family court. They just amicably split outside of court.

709
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: So generally, those that you see in the family court system,

710
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: it's evident that there's some kind of toxicity or some

711
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: kind of abuse happening, otherwise you wouldn't see them. So

712
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: the lengthy process of going through prison, getting out of prison,

713
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: starting the process of getting the trial, it's all taken time.

714
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: So the conclusion of my trial is in August, and

715
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: then I'm hopeful there will be a shift in custody.

716
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: It's because it's taken so long, there's going to need

717
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: to be like a step up program to reunify with

718
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: my children. But in terms of regaining my custody. I'm hopeful.

719
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be a problem.

720
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, fingers crossed for that, because as mama's I

721
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: can't even imagine, like literally cannot imagine that piece. And

722
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 2: I don't think courts should take kids away unless it's

723
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 2: obviously an abusive sord you know, actual situation. So danger, yeah, danger, Yeah,

724
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 2: Well I can't imagine. You know, I know you've got

725
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 2: a lot going on. You have what is you have

726
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: something else coming out right as well?

727
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just read a book, okay.

728
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 2: And that will there be more things in that that

729
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: are not that wasn't on the documentaries.

730
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: Oh toens. I mean, this is this is my my words,

731
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: and it's my story. It's my journey unedited without the

732
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 1: editing process and without the constraints of having to try

733
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: and bring somebody else's side on. For example, this is

734
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 1: just me and it's it's my entire adult life from

735
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: my marriage on you has been this self discovery for me,

736
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: this journey being steeped in therapy and understanding who I

737
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 1: am and the choices that I've made and where I've

738
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: come from, and understanding authentically who I am. So it's

739
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: I think it's quite a lot of just personal.

740
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 2: About me, and that is the Scherry Peppinie doesn't exist,

741
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 2: a lie that defined me, the media that destroyed me,

742
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 2: and the truth that no one has heard.

743
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 3: It is available now. Awesome. Thank you so much, Sherry.

744
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 3: Appreciate you coming on.

745
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for having me.

746
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 2: All Right, Hi, Cherry, so I listen. I think it's

747
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: I think it's a tangled it's it's tangled that that's

748
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 2: her truth. That's a terrible I mean, I can't even

749
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,959
Speaker 2: imagine being abducted. I think what's hard is the lie

750
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 2: in the beginning I had. I couldn't imagine lying to

751
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: an officer, you know, like when an officer came to

752
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 2: my place when the guy tried to kill me.

753
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 3: It's like there it was word for war, because it's like,

754
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 3: so I'm going to say something that's a little this

755
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 3: isn't this has I have no degree in psychology at all.

756
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 3: I know what you'r. I know I knew where you

757
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 3: were always going with it, and I agree with that.

758
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 3: I just wanted to ask the question to her, but

759
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure if we could get there with her.

760
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 3: In my brain there is a unhealed unjustified incident that

761
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 3: might have landed And I am not saying I believe her,

762
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 3: don't believe her. It's whatever that might have landed on

763
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 3: this James character. And the quest for justice is not

764
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 3: always is not solely about James the person. It is

765
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 3: about all of this retroactive stuff that happened to her

766
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 3: that never got clarity. Yeah, and I think no matter

767
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 3: who Sharey is now the forty three year old, and

768
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 3: I can resonate with a lot of peace of that,

769
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 3: there is a deep need for immediate mental and physical

770
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 3: support for children that go through any abuse period. And

771
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 3: I am passionate about that because it will change the

772
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 3: trajectory of their lives. So if they get nothing else

773
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 3: out of this media, that is what I hope they get. Amen,

774
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 3: one thousand percent couldn't agree with you more