1 00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:09,318 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:15,078 --> 00:00:16,438 Speaker 2: Hey there, and welcome back. 3 00:00:16,478 --> 00:00:19,878 Speaker 1: It's the latest edition of the Book of Joe podcast 4 00:00:20,038 --> 00:00:22,678 Speaker 1: with me, Tom Verducci and of course Joe Madden and Joe. 5 00:00:22,758 --> 00:00:24,998 Speaker 1: I'd like to continue the discussion we've had, and it's 6 00:00:25,038 --> 00:00:27,358 Speaker 1: been a really good one, and actually all of baseball 7 00:00:27,398 --> 00:00:30,158 Speaker 1: has been having it about how to keep pictures healthy. 8 00:00:30,638 --> 00:00:34,558 Speaker 1: And we have the ultimate guest, especially for a podcast 9 00:00:34,558 --> 00:00:38,918 Speaker 1: that loves golf almost as much as baseball, Nobody better 10 00:00:38,958 --> 00:00:42,998 Speaker 1: to talk about this issue than the great Greg Maddox, 11 00:00:43,398 --> 00:00:48,158 Speaker 1: literally the winningest pitcher alive. He pitch twenty three years 12 00:00:48,198 --> 00:00:49,478 Speaker 1: in the major leagues in more. 13 00:00:49,358 --> 00:00:51,438 Speaker 2: Than five thousand innings. 14 00:00:51,758 --> 00:00:53,878 Speaker 1: We are going to get to Greg Maddox in our 15 00:00:53,918 --> 00:00:56,598 Speaker 1: second segment, and right now, Joe, I want to review 16 00:00:56,638 --> 00:00:58,918 Speaker 1: what we talked about in terms of velocity and keeping 17 00:00:58,958 --> 00:01:03,638 Speaker 1: pictures healthy. I'd mentioned that eighteen of the top twenty 18 00:01:03,678 --> 00:01:06,318 Speaker 1: one hardest throwing starting pitchers in the last five years 19 00:01:06,318 --> 00:01:08,918 Speaker 1: have broken down. Well, you can make it nineteen out 20 00:01:08,918 --> 00:01:10,998 Speaker 1: of twenty one now because Bobby Miller of the LA 21 00:01:11,118 --> 00:01:12,638 Speaker 1: Dodgers is now on the IL. 22 00:01:12,838 --> 00:01:15,198 Speaker 2: That's a ninety percent attrition rate. 23 00:01:15,518 --> 00:01:16,878 Speaker 1: I went back, and I looked at the guys who 24 00:01:16,958 --> 00:01:19,918 Speaker 1: have average below, which is between ninety three and ninety four. 25 00:01:20,358 --> 00:01:22,598 Speaker 2: Their attrition rate is about sixty percent. 26 00:01:22,958 --> 00:01:26,798 Speaker 1: So there's no question that throwing harder puts pitchers more 27 00:01:26,838 --> 00:01:30,758 Speaker 1: at risk. So, Joe, you've heard all the data, you 28 00:01:30,798 --> 00:01:32,438 Speaker 1: see what's going on in the game. Do you have 29 00:01:32,518 --> 00:01:36,358 Speaker 1: suggestions about how baseball can Obviously you're not going to 30 00:01:36,358 --> 00:01:38,918 Speaker 1: stop it, but at least mitigate the risk of injury. 31 00:01:39,158 --> 00:01:42,038 Speaker 3: Well, I mean this is we talked about it, the 32 00:01:42,118 --> 00:01:44,158 Speaker 3: velocity and all that other stuff. You just brought it 33 00:01:44,158 --> 00:01:48,278 Speaker 3: back up. I still tried and true pitching. It's going 34 00:01:48,358 --> 00:01:50,918 Speaker 3: to be. You just can't put the velocity back in 35 00:01:50,478 --> 00:01:53,038 Speaker 3: the genie bottle, right, you just don't want to do that. 36 00:01:53,078 --> 00:01:56,318 Speaker 3: You've come so far right, so you can't just overlook 37 00:01:56,318 --> 00:01:58,678 Speaker 3: it put it back whatever. However, it always starts in 38 00:01:58,678 --> 00:02:01,958 Speaker 3: the minor leagues for me and the program that gets 39 00:02:01,998 --> 00:02:03,918 Speaker 3: these guys to the point that they're throwing a hundred 40 00:02:04,118 --> 00:02:06,558 Speaker 3: an hour, I don't think they innately do that. I mean, 41 00:02:06,598 --> 00:02:08,918 Speaker 3: that's a rare occurrence when a guy has an arm 42 00:02:08,998 --> 00:02:11,678 Speaker 3: that just God says, here, here's one hundred miles an hour. 43 00:02:12,478 --> 00:02:14,238 Speaker 3: I can see a raw this Chapman as an example 44 00:02:14,278 --> 00:02:16,678 Speaker 3: being that guy just based on his size whatever. But 45 00:02:16,758 --> 00:02:18,838 Speaker 3: at some point, I don't know if it's the training techniques. 46 00:02:18,838 --> 00:02:20,158 Speaker 3: It goes all the way back to when they're a 47 00:02:20,158 --> 00:02:22,558 Speaker 3: little bit younger. We don't even care that kids in 48 00:02:22,598 --> 00:02:25,318 Speaker 3: high school are getting Tommy John surgery anymore. It's okay 49 00:02:25,438 --> 00:02:28,318 Speaker 3: because the carrot is that eventually they're going to get drafted, 50 00:02:28,358 --> 00:02:30,358 Speaker 3: give them a lot of money. And of course it's 51 00:02:30,358 --> 00:02:33,558 Speaker 3: always going to be about money and the perception about winning. 52 00:02:33,598 --> 00:02:35,838 Speaker 3: But you don't win because these guys are keep getting hurt. 53 00:02:36,198 --> 00:02:41,638 Speaker 3: Roundabout answer, I still like pitching taught, not throwing taught. 54 00:02:41,838 --> 00:02:43,958 Speaker 3: Grank's going to be a perfect example of that, and 55 00:02:43,998 --> 00:02:46,798 Speaker 3: I yeah, one of his pitching coaches that he loves 56 00:02:46,878 --> 00:02:49,718 Speaker 3: is a good friend of mine, Dick Paul, and I 57 00:02:49,718 --> 00:02:52,878 Speaker 3: don't understand why that's not taught. I mean, I going 58 00:02:52,918 --> 00:02:56,398 Speaker 3: back to recently, even with the Angels watching bullpens, I 59 00:02:56,398 --> 00:02:58,558 Speaker 3: could honestly say there was some because it wasn't many 60 00:02:58,678 --> 00:03:00,198 Speaker 3: hundred mile hour dos there, so there was a lot 61 00:03:00,198 --> 00:03:04,318 Speaker 3: of like pitching shaping, hitting corners, moving the ball around, 62 00:03:04,358 --> 00:03:07,118 Speaker 3: things like that, and the ability to do to pitch 63 00:03:07,238 --> 00:03:09,598 Speaker 3: into the sixth or seventh inning the third time through, 64 00:03:09,918 --> 00:03:11,798 Speaker 3: because I have more weapons and I don't run out 65 00:03:11,798 --> 00:03:14,958 Speaker 3: of gas because I'm just I got my the pedal 66 00:03:14,998 --> 00:03:18,318 Speaker 3: to the floor on every particular pitch. So the answer 67 00:03:18,358 --> 00:03:21,358 Speaker 3: is teach pitching. Teach. And we've talked to about the 68 00:03:21,438 --> 00:03:25,198 Speaker 3: mechanical dissertation too. But I mean my buddy Jimmy Colonel, 69 00:03:25,238 --> 00:03:27,318 Speaker 3: and I gotta give him credit. Man, he keeps throwing 70 00:03:27,318 --> 00:03:30,398 Speaker 3: me pictures where pitcher's arms are way behind their head. 71 00:03:30,398 --> 00:03:33,438 Speaker 3: It's almost like they're overrotated on the top. And he 72 00:03:33,518 --> 00:03:35,958 Speaker 3: every like the kid with Atlanta. He just showed me 73 00:03:35,998 --> 00:03:36,838 Speaker 3: pictures of recently. 74 00:03:36,878 --> 00:03:39,878 Speaker 2: It's so yeah, you're absolutely right, Joe. 75 00:03:39,958 --> 00:03:41,838 Speaker 1: I mean you can look at this and I call 76 00:03:41,838 --> 00:03:44,838 Speaker 1: it forearm flyout, where that right the hand and forearm 77 00:03:44,878 --> 00:03:47,438 Speaker 1: get way too far beyond the head. You can see 78 00:03:47,558 --> 00:03:50,718 Speaker 1: injuries about to happen before they actually do. You made 79 00:03:50,798 --> 00:03:53,518 Speaker 1: a lot of good points there, Joe, And you mentioned 80 00:03:53,518 --> 00:03:56,758 Speaker 1: Dick Paul, one of Greg's best pitching coaches. I remember 81 00:03:56,758 --> 00:03:58,758 Speaker 1: Greg telling me that when he was in trouble, he 82 00:03:58,878 --> 00:04:00,318 Speaker 1: never thought about throwing harder. 83 00:04:00,678 --> 00:04:02,238 Speaker 2: He thought about locating better. 84 00:04:02,798 --> 00:04:05,438 Speaker 1: And we have to get back somehow to that philosophy 85 00:04:05,518 --> 00:04:08,638 Speaker 1: about pitching and not throwing. But you're right, it's hard 86 00:04:08,678 --> 00:04:11,198 Speaker 1: to put the genie back in the bottle. Everybody's chasing 87 00:04:11,278 --> 00:04:12,278 Speaker 1: v low because it. 88 00:04:12,198 --> 00:04:13,718 Speaker 2: Is harder to hit. I get it. 89 00:04:14,118 --> 00:04:16,518 Speaker 1: I actually think Joe, we're at a point here where 90 00:04:17,238 --> 00:04:20,318 Speaker 1: signing up to be a pitcher it's basically like signing 91 00:04:20,398 --> 00:04:23,518 Speaker 1: up to be a hang glider or a rock climber. 92 00:04:23,758 --> 00:04:26,598 Speaker 1: It's inherently risky, and you sign up knowing what that 93 00:04:26,718 --> 00:04:29,318 Speaker 1: risk is. You're going to push the envelope on velocity, 94 00:04:29,878 --> 00:04:32,278 Speaker 1: knowing that you're a breakdown waiting to happen because the 95 00:04:32,318 --> 00:04:35,438 Speaker 1: body just cannot withstand the upper limits of velocity that 96 00:04:35,478 --> 00:04:35,918 Speaker 1: we're seeing. 97 00:04:36,118 --> 00:04:37,718 Speaker 3: So how many how many guys you have to sign? 98 00:04:37,758 --> 00:04:39,158 Speaker 3: How many pitches you have to get ready in a 99 00:04:39,158 --> 00:04:41,798 Speaker 3: major league season because you know the attrition's going to curve. 100 00:04:41,998 --> 00:04:44,598 Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's a great point. It does become a war 101 00:04:44,638 --> 00:04:47,918 Speaker 1: of attrition. And let me bring up this, this hypothetical situation. 102 00:04:48,038 --> 00:04:51,158 Speaker 1: You've got Paul's skeins now within the Pirates system and 103 00:04:51,158 --> 00:04:54,678 Speaker 1: pitch the LSU upper nineties one hundred miles an hour. 104 00:04:54,878 --> 00:04:58,238 Speaker 1: He throw the ball through a brick wall. He is 105 00:04:58,358 --> 00:05:00,678 Speaker 1: just dominating Triple A hitters. For the life of me, 106 00:05:00,718 --> 00:05:04,198 Speaker 1: I don't understand why he's there in Triple A. You know, now, 107 00:05:04,238 --> 00:05:08,358 Speaker 1: college baseball, especially if you're in the SEC, it's like 108 00:05:08,398 --> 00:05:11,718 Speaker 1: the equivalent I think of Double A baseball minor league baseball. 109 00:05:11,758 --> 00:05:13,918 Speaker 1: And the instruction that these kids are getting is amazing 110 00:05:15,238 --> 00:05:19,038 Speaker 1: for a guy who throws again upper nineties. And if 111 00:05:19,038 --> 00:05:22,278 Speaker 1: you watch Paul Skeen's pitch, his mechanics are not clean. 112 00:05:22,878 --> 00:05:25,198 Speaker 1: He picks the ball up in the loaded position with 113 00:05:25,238 --> 00:05:28,078 Speaker 1: his elbow. In other words, his elbow raises above his 114 00:05:28,198 --> 00:05:31,598 Speaker 1: back shoulder. That's inherently stressful. I'm not saying he's a 115 00:05:31,598 --> 00:05:33,198 Speaker 1: breakdown waiting to happen, but it is a bit of 116 00:05:33,278 --> 00:05:35,678 Speaker 1: a red flag that you look at. And given what 117 00:05:35,718 --> 00:05:38,238 Speaker 1: we've talked about, we've seen all his data. When starting 118 00:05:38,278 --> 00:05:42,198 Speaker 1: pitchers are throwing in the upper nineties without clean mechanics, 119 00:05:42,838 --> 00:05:45,398 Speaker 1: I don't know why the Pittsburgh Pirates don't bring him 120 00:05:45,478 --> 00:05:48,038 Speaker 1: up right now, because Joe, you put him in the 121 00:05:48,078 --> 00:05:51,158 Speaker 1: Pirate rotation right now. He's one of the ten best 122 00:05:51,158 --> 00:05:53,638 Speaker 1: pitchers in Major League Baseball. His stuff is that good. 123 00:05:53,638 --> 00:05:55,758 Speaker 1: I don't think he has anything to prove by blowing 124 00:05:55,758 --> 00:05:58,278 Speaker 1: the ball by triple A hitters, and that clock is 125 00:05:58,318 --> 00:06:00,278 Speaker 1: ticking as it is with all young pitchers, not just 126 00:06:00,318 --> 00:06:00,998 Speaker 1: hard throwers. 127 00:06:01,318 --> 00:06:04,638 Speaker 3: Well, I mean being all that that is meant that 128 00:06:04,638 --> 00:06:07,318 Speaker 3: that is may that we're gonna get all these guys 129 00:06:07,438 --> 00:06:09,558 Speaker 3: throwing trying to three hundred miles an hour. That's what 130 00:06:09,678 --> 00:06:13,238 Speaker 3: organizations want. There's only there's still a limited amount of 131 00:06:13,238 --> 00:06:14,878 Speaker 3: those guys too. But you know they're eventually going to 132 00:06:14,918 --> 00:06:16,798 Speaker 3: break down almost one hundred, like you said, ninety percent 133 00:06:16,838 --> 00:06:18,958 Speaker 3: of the time. So why okay, let's get those guys. 134 00:06:19,238 --> 00:06:21,358 Speaker 3: We're gonna We're still gonna go sign those guys. We 135 00:06:21,398 --> 00:06:23,718 Speaker 3: want those guys are We're gonna try our best to 136 00:06:23,798 --> 00:06:25,838 Speaker 3: keep them healthy as long as we possibly can. But 137 00:06:26,318 --> 00:06:29,238 Speaker 3: in the meantime, why do we get more guys that 138 00:06:29,278 --> 00:06:31,318 Speaker 3: are more tuned to pitching. Guys that maybe are in 139 00:06:31,318 --> 00:06:34,078 Speaker 3: that ninety one to ninety three range, maybe hit ninety 140 00:06:34,118 --> 00:06:37,238 Speaker 3: four nicasia, but know how to shape pitches, hit corners, 141 00:06:37,278 --> 00:06:40,838 Speaker 3: hit edges, have multiple pitches that they could attack hitters 142 00:06:40,878 --> 00:06:43,278 Speaker 3: with the third time into the battle to why not 143 00:06:43,878 --> 00:06:47,478 Speaker 3: try to build a cachet of those two they're more 144 00:06:47,678 --> 00:06:50,798 Speaker 3: easily reddible or findable. You could find these guys in 145 00:06:50,838 --> 00:06:53,798 Speaker 3: every university, even in high schools of course junior colleges, 146 00:06:54,038 --> 00:06:56,158 Speaker 3: so maybe it might be wise. They're like, yeah, we 147 00:06:56,198 --> 00:06:58,998 Speaker 3: still want this animal, which is what we wanted when 148 00:06:59,038 --> 00:07:01,398 Speaker 3: I was coming up. And at that time Charlie Kerf 149 00:07:01,398 --> 00:07:04,478 Speaker 3: fell through ninety seven miles an hour and that was 150 00:07:04,478 --> 00:07:07,078 Speaker 3: considered heavy in the early eighties when he was at 151 00:07:07,078 --> 00:07:10,278 Speaker 3: the Abapai Junior College. But then again, I could just 152 00:07:10,278 --> 00:07:11,918 Speaker 3: go up and down a list of the guys at pitch. 153 00:07:11,958 --> 00:07:14,518 Speaker 3: I mean Oka, Mark Langston, How good was Langley? And 154 00:07:14,598 --> 00:07:17,238 Speaker 3: Langley was a low ninety kind of guy, maybe a 155 00:07:17,238 --> 00:07:19,158 Speaker 3: little bit higher than that on occasion, but his ball 156 00:07:19,198 --> 00:07:21,878 Speaker 3: had great low I caught him in bould a great 157 00:07:21,918 --> 00:07:25,278 Speaker 3: low carry, great low carry than his outstanding curveball and 158 00:07:25,318 --> 00:07:27,918 Speaker 3: a change up that nobody ever talked about. And that's 159 00:07:27,918 --> 00:07:30,838 Speaker 3: why Langley was able to. Plus he was great athletes, 160 00:07:30,878 --> 00:07:33,478 Speaker 3: So why not build both models? Why do we have 161 00:07:33,558 --> 00:07:35,998 Speaker 3: to just go after one because you know the ones 162 00:07:36,038 --> 00:07:38,118 Speaker 3: probably going to break down and you have to have 163 00:07:38,158 --> 00:07:40,798 Speaker 3: this backup plan with guys that you have to believe 164 00:07:40,798 --> 00:07:42,878 Speaker 3: are going to be more consistently healthy than the other. 165 00:07:43,358 --> 00:07:46,798 Speaker 1: Great points Joe, and just to back up your points, 166 00:07:47,238 --> 00:07:49,838 Speaker 1: what if someone like Greg Mannix was available for the 167 00:07:49,958 --> 00:07:52,838 Speaker 1: draft this year. We're talking about a high school pitcher 168 00:07:53,398 --> 00:07:56,118 Speaker 1: at six feet tall, maybe one hundred and sixty one 169 00:07:56,158 --> 00:07:59,878 Speaker 1: hundred and seventy pounds, throwing right around ninety, maybe topping 170 00:07:59,918 --> 00:08:03,478 Speaker 1: out at ninety. He went in the second round of 171 00:08:03,518 --> 00:08:08,598 Speaker 1: the drivet. And what kind of scout is going to 172 00:08:08,598 --> 00:08:10,478 Speaker 1: beat the drums for a picture like that today? 173 00:08:10,678 --> 00:08:14,118 Speaker 2: A seventeen year old throwing ninety. I don't know. 174 00:08:14,278 --> 00:08:18,638 Speaker 1: But it's a fascinating discussion. And when we get back 175 00:08:18,718 --> 00:08:21,358 Speaker 1: we will continue it with the man we just talked about, 176 00:08:21,878 --> 00:08:24,838 Speaker 1: Greg Maddocks, will join us to talk, of course, golf 177 00:08:25,038 --> 00:08:26,998 Speaker 1: at baseball, two of our favorite subjects. 178 00:08:27,038 --> 00:08:27,598 Speaker 2: Right after this. 179 00:08:27,558 --> 00:08:28,958 Speaker 3: Hope you could help me? Hope you could help me? 180 00:08:41,358 --> 00:08:44,238 Speaker 1: Well, we promised you the winningest pitcher alive, and here 181 00:08:44,278 --> 00:08:45,718 Speaker 1: he is, Greg Maddox. 182 00:08:45,998 --> 00:08:49,118 Speaker 2: One of our favorites and one of our favorite topics 183 00:08:49,198 --> 00:08:49,558 Speaker 2: is golf. 184 00:08:49,638 --> 00:08:51,878 Speaker 1: Greg, So I'm glad you're joining us from the Invited 185 00:08:51,918 --> 00:08:56,038 Speaker 1: Celebrity Classic. It's actually a PGA Tour champions event where 186 00:08:56,078 --> 00:08:59,758 Speaker 1: you've got seventy eight PGA Tour champions in the field 187 00:08:59,878 --> 00:09:03,798 Speaker 1: and forty celebrities from the sports and entertainment world, and 188 00:09:04,078 --> 00:09:07,478 Speaker 1: Greg Mannix is one of them. It's this weekend, April 189 00:09:07,598 --> 00:09:10,838 Speaker 1: nineteenth to twenty first, a beautiful Las Colinas Country Club 190 00:09:10,878 --> 00:09:11,758 Speaker 1: in Irving, Texas. 191 00:09:12,518 --> 00:09:13,838 Speaker 2: Greg, thanks for joining us. 192 00:09:13,878 --> 00:09:16,598 Speaker 1: Tell me, I know you love You've loved golf for 193 00:09:16,638 --> 00:09:18,198 Speaker 1: a long time and had a lot of chances to 194 00:09:18,198 --> 00:09:20,318 Speaker 1: play when you were playing Major League Baseball. 195 00:09:20,918 --> 00:09:23,118 Speaker 2: How much do you play now compared to when you 196 00:09:23,158 --> 00:09:23,998 Speaker 2: were playing MLB? 197 00:09:24,358 --> 00:09:26,678 Speaker 4: Well, actually I play a little bit more now I 198 00:09:26,678 --> 00:09:29,038 Speaker 4: don't have to go to the park anymore. So you know, 199 00:09:29,078 --> 00:09:31,398 Speaker 4: I got my group of guys back in Vegas, and 200 00:09:32,158 --> 00:09:34,118 Speaker 4: you know we got the second third tea time every 201 00:09:34,158 --> 00:09:36,478 Speaker 4: day and try to get out there at least four 202 00:09:36,558 --> 00:09:39,158 Speaker 4: or five times a week and enjoy retirement. 203 00:09:39,238 --> 00:09:40,918 Speaker 2: So that means your game is better, right. 204 00:09:41,278 --> 00:09:42,998 Speaker 4: No, that's the same. Just because you're play more, it 205 00:09:42,998 --> 00:09:46,198 Speaker 4: doesn't mean you get better. But you know, I like 206 00:09:46,278 --> 00:09:47,318 Speaker 4: the game. I love playing. 207 00:09:47,358 --> 00:09:48,598 Speaker 5: I like watching it on TV. 208 00:09:48,758 --> 00:09:52,198 Speaker 4: I loved watching the Masters last week, and it's pretty 209 00:09:52,238 --> 00:09:54,438 Speaker 4: cool coming down here to Los Kalinas, and you know, 210 00:09:54,558 --> 00:09:57,438 Speaker 4: playing with all the senior players. I mean, we watched 211 00:09:57,438 --> 00:09:59,638 Speaker 4: these guys in our clubhouse in the nineties for like 212 00:09:59,718 --> 00:10:02,038 Speaker 4: ten years, you know, when they were out doing their things. 213 00:10:02,038 --> 00:10:03,878 Speaker 4: So it's kind of it's kind of our fantasy camp 214 00:10:04,318 --> 00:10:04,838 Speaker 4: this week. 215 00:10:05,238 --> 00:10:05,718 Speaker 2: Very cool. 216 00:10:05,758 --> 00:10:07,278 Speaker 1: I got to ask this, Greg, when you're in a 217 00:10:07,278 --> 00:10:09,278 Speaker 1: tournament like this, does it I don't know if it 218 00:10:09,358 --> 00:10:11,958 Speaker 1: replaces or come close to the competitive ititch that you 219 00:10:12,078 --> 00:10:13,438 Speaker 1: had as a major league pitcher. 220 00:10:14,318 --> 00:10:14,838 Speaker 3: Not really. 221 00:10:14,878 --> 00:10:16,078 Speaker 5: This is just fun, you know. 222 00:10:16,198 --> 00:10:18,758 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, pitching is what I did. You know, 223 00:10:18,798 --> 00:10:21,598 Speaker 4: that was how I made my living, and you know 224 00:10:21,678 --> 00:10:24,158 Speaker 4: it was all about, you know, seeing how good you 225 00:10:24,198 --> 00:10:25,958 Speaker 4: can be on the mound. And you know, golf is 226 00:10:26,278 --> 00:10:28,558 Speaker 4: pure pleasure, just fun. And you know, I don't want 227 00:10:28,558 --> 00:10:30,838 Speaker 4: to make it too stressful, you know, I want to 228 00:10:30,878 --> 00:10:32,958 Speaker 4: sit back and enjoy the game and enjoy the company. 229 00:10:33,758 --> 00:10:34,198 Speaker 2: Very cool. 230 00:10:34,198 --> 00:10:36,118 Speaker 1: Well, you got a great one and a great course 231 00:10:36,158 --> 00:10:38,678 Speaker 1: this weekend. I'm sure you will enjoy it. Meanwhile, I'm 232 00:10:38,718 --> 00:10:42,118 Speaker 1: sure besides watching the Masters, you've probably followed some of 233 00:10:42,158 --> 00:10:44,638 Speaker 1: the chatter around Major League Baseball this year with as 234 00:10:44,638 --> 00:10:47,838 Speaker 1: it relates to the breakdowns of major league pitchers when 235 00:10:47,878 --> 00:10:49,998 Speaker 1: it comes to elbow injuries and velocity. 236 00:10:50,678 --> 00:10:52,198 Speaker 2: You're a guy pitched. 237 00:10:51,918 --> 00:10:56,758 Speaker 1: Twenty three years more than five thousand innings. Greg, how 238 00:10:56,798 --> 00:11:00,598 Speaker 1: many times were you on the injured list eight days. 239 00:11:00,798 --> 00:11:04,238 Speaker 4: I missed the first eight days of kind of my 240 00:11:04,278 --> 00:11:07,638 Speaker 4: backup the last week of spring training, and I think 241 00:11:07,678 --> 00:11:09,518 Speaker 4: I ended up starting like the seventh game of the 242 00:11:09,518 --> 00:11:13,038 Speaker 4: season something like that one year. But pretty fortunate to 243 00:11:13,078 --> 00:11:17,278 Speaker 4: never have any serious injuries. And you know, I guess 244 00:11:17,358 --> 00:11:19,838 Speaker 4: all those shoulder exercises paid off when I was you know, 245 00:11:20,558 --> 00:11:20,878 Speaker 4: back in. 246 00:11:20,878 --> 00:11:22,078 Speaker 5: The day when I was doing it. 247 00:11:22,198 --> 00:11:25,038 Speaker 1: Yeah, and pretty good mechanics helped too, I'm sure. So 248 00:11:25,118 --> 00:11:27,878 Speaker 1: tell me, Greg, as an observer of the sport and 249 00:11:28,558 --> 00:11:31,878 Speaker 1: obviously annoying pitching, so, well, how do you explain the 250 00:11:31,998 --> 00:11:35,598 Speaker 1: accelerated rate of breakdowns what you're seeing in the major leagues? 251 00:11:35,638 --> 00:11:36,678 Speaker 2: What are some of your theories? 252 00:11:37,238 --> 00:11:40,078 Speaker 4: Well, I just think, you know, being around a lot 253 00:11:40,078 --> 00:11:43,398 Speaker 4: of young college guys and high school guys, it's all 254 00:11:43,438 --> 00:11:44,118 Speaker 4: about the VLO. 255 00:11:44,438 --> 00:11:46,438 Speaker 5: You know. It's all about how hard can I throw it? 256 00:11:46,478 --> 00:11:49,158 Speaker 4: What can I do to throw it and get my 257 00:11:49,198 --> 00:11:51,078 Speaker 4: spin rates up and all that, and that's kind of 258 00:11:51,078 --> 00:11:53,718 Speaker 4: what most of the pitchers are kind of shooting for. 259 00:11:54,238 --> 00:11:55,998 Speaker 4: I think when we were growing up, we were learning 260 00:11:55,998 --> 00:11:58,718 Speaker 4: how to pitch. We were learning how to locate our 261 00:11:58,758 --> 00:12:01,758 Speaker 4: fastball and change speeds. You know, we threw hard enough 262 00:12:01,758 --> 00:12:05,478 Speaker 4: to have success. We weren't trying to force extra velocity. 263 00:12:05,518 --> 00:12:08,838 Speaker 4: We're trying to force extra pitch collection and location and 264 00:12:08,918 --> 00:12:13,998 Speaker 4: movement and game planning and all those things. So, you know, 265 00:12:14,038 --> 00:12:15,958 Speaker 4: I think that's a big part of it. Also, I think, 266 00:12:16,478 --> 00:12:18,878 Speaker 4: you know, the kids today, they play year round. I 267 00:12:18,918 --> 00:12:21,918 Speaker 4: mean they were growing up, played a lot of basketball, 268 00:12:22,278 --> 00:12:24,878 Speaker 4: played a little bit of football, played all the sports, 269 00:12:25,798 --> 00:12:27,518 Speaker 4: played baseball for four months a year. 270 00:12:27,798 --> 00:12:27,958 Speaker 3: You know. 271 00:12:27,998 --> 00:12:30,278 Speaker 5: I think the guys now are playing you know, ten 272 00:12:30,398 --> 00:12:32,358 Speaker 5: twelve months a year, you know, with all the club 273 00:12:32,358 --> 00:12:34,198 Speaker 5: ball going on and the travel and all that. 274 00:12:34,438 --> 00:12:37,118 Speaker 4: So you know, that's a lot of throws from the 275 00:12:37,158 --> 00:12:40,118 Speaker 4: time year fifteen to twenty two, you know, when you've 276 00:12:40,118 --> 00:12:43,078 Speaker 4: been playing year round like that, so there's only so 277 00:12:43,118 --> 00:12:45,958 Speaker 4: many throws in your arm. And doesn't seem like they 278 00:12:45,998 --> 00:12:47,598 Speaker 4: take the time off that we took. 279 00:12:48,438 --> 00:12:51,038 Speaker 3: I love the liberal arts approach where you're doing more 280 00:12:51,078 --> 00:12:54,238 Speaker 3: than one thing and participating and we're than one sport. 281 00:12:54,278 --> 00:12:56,198 Speaker 3: It comes right down to even having different coaches with 282 00:12:56,238 --> 00:12:59,238 Speaker 3: different philosophies and different attitudes and the different kind of 283 00:12:59,238 --> 00:13:02,238 Speaker 3: people that you have to cohabitate with. So I love 284 00:13:02,278 --> 00:13:05,278 Speaker 3: that approach. It's curious I'd be with all this stuff 285 00:13:05,318 --> 00:13:07,838 Speaker 3: going on and all the training regiments, and you've been 286 00:13:07,878 --> 00:13:09,478 Speaker 3: around it. I know you've been to different camps or 287 00:13:09,478 --> 00:13:12,318 Speaker 3: you've talked to different guys whatever, but briefly, your routine. 288 00:13:12,398 --> 00:13:14,398 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just curious, like your routine has a 289 00:13:14,478 --> 00:13:18,238 Speaker 3: major league started for that many years. Okay, you're starting today? 290 00:13:18,238 --> 00:13:22,038 Speaker 3: What is today? Wednesday? Right? You start today? Then to 291 00:13:22,038 --> 00:13:23,998 Speaker 3: you up into your next start, what did your routine 292 00:13:23,998 --> 00:13:24,318 Speaker 3: look like? 293 00:13:24,678 --> 00:13:27,198 Speaker 4: Well, I mean obviously Thursday, I would be pretty sore 294 00:13:27,238 --> 00:13:29,918 Speaker 4: and tired from pitching, you know, the day before, so 295 00:13:29,998 --> 00:13:31,758 Speaker 4: I took it pretty easy. I would do like an 296 00:13:31,798 --> 00:13:35,718 Speaker 4: easy thirty minute bike ride, maybe a forty minute walk, 297 00:13:35,838 --> 00:13:37,918 Speaker 4: didn't do a whole lot the day after, kind of 298 00:13:38,158 --> 00:13:41,958 Speaker 4: rest and recovery day, and watch a little video for 299 00:13:42,078 --> 00:13:46,238 Speaker 4: my next start in five days or four days and Tuesday, 300 00:13:46,278 --> 00:13:48,918 Speaker 4: then you would start to take care of your body, 301 00:13:48,958 --> 00:13:50,918 Speaker 4: do what you have to do for your arms and legs, 302 00:13:51,598 --> 00:13:56,158 Speaker 4: did the shoulder exercises every day regardless, and. 303 00:13:57,558 --> 00:14:00,358 Speaker 5: Had your side day that day, and. 304 00:14:00,278 --> 00:14:03,198 Speaker 4: You know that was to try to improve on wasn't 305 00:14:03,238 --> 00:14:05,438 Speaker 4: as good as you wanted it to be your last start, 306 00:14:05,718 --> 00:14:08,118 Speaker 4: and then you know, stick to your strengths, which was 307 00:14:08,198 --> 00:14:10,678 Speaker 4: locating fastballs and have a feel for your change up. 308 00:14:11,998 --> 00:14:14,078 Speaker 4: You know, third and fourth day was again taking care 309 00:14:14,078 --> 00:14:16,998 Speaker 4: of your body, doing your legs, your your abs and 310 00:14:16,998 --> 00:14:20,598 Speaker 4: and all that stuff, and you know, getting your game 311 00:14:20,638 --> 00:14:23,318 Speaker 4: plan ready for when you have to pitch on Monday. 312 00:14:23,238 --> 00:14:25,678 Speaker 3: On the side day, specifically when you're when you were 313 00:14:25,718 --> 00:14:28,398 Speaker 3: out there, whatever the work was, but you were very 314 00:14:29,558 --> 00:14:31,078 Speaker 3: the way you pitched, you were very You had to 315 00:14:31,118 --> 00:14:34,238 Speaker 3: be very specific in your work on that on that 316 00:14:34,318 --> 00:14:36,638 Speaker 3: side day. And did you ever skip the side day 317 00:14:36,638 --> 00:14:38,998 Speaker 3: as the season went on, did you have to cut 318 00:14:38,998 --> 00:14:40,278 Speaker 3: back on your throwing at any point? 319 00:14:40,358 --> 00:14:42,318 Speaker 5: Absolutely? Yeah. 320 00:14:42,838 --> 00:14:44,998 Speaker 4: If my arm didn't feel right, then I would totally 321 00:14:44,998 --> 00:14:49,878 Speaker 4: skip the side day and I would throw balls maybe 322 00:14:49,918 --> 00:14:52,998 Speaker 4: ten feet away against the outfield wall, you know, just 323 00:14:53,038 --> 00:14:53,638 Speaker 4: to get. 324 00:14:53,438 --> 00:14:55,358 Speaker 5: Some exercise in with it. 325 00:14:55,398 --> 00:14:59,758 Speaker 4: But you know, yeah, I was not afraid to skip 326 00:14:59,758 --> 00:15:02,758 Speaker 4: a side day, that's for sure. But I enjoyed throwing 327 00:15:02,838 --> 00:15:06,878 Speaker 4: on the side need to, you know, I enjoyed spending 328 00:15:06,878 --> 00:15:10,078 Speaker 4: that time with my coach and you know, having a 329 00:15:10,118 --> 00:15:11,958 Speaker 4: good side day and sitting down there in the bullpen 330 00:15:12,038 --> 00:15:14,318 Speaker 4: talking ball while the other team's taking batting practice. 331 00:15:14,358 --> 00:15:15,718 Speaker 5: You know, that was some of the funnest days of 332 00:15:15,718 --> 00:15:16,038 Speaker 5: the year. 333 00:15:16,678 --> 00:15:18,718 Speaker 3: Did you like, were you a weightlifter? Did you run 334 00:15:18,758 --> 00:15:20,758 Speaker 3: a lot in between starts? What was your method of 335 00:15:21,238 --> 00:15:23,438 Speaker 3: staying shit? You talked about walking the day after whatever, 336 00:15:23,518 --> 00:15:26,038 Speaker 3: But yeah, did you have anything more more exact than that? 337 00:15:26,638 --> 00:15:31,078 Speaker 5: Mostly sprints, very little distance. I think I did mostly sprints, A. 338 00:15:31,078 --> 00:15:33,718 Speaker 4: Lot of power shagging, believe it or not, enjoyed during 339 00:15:33,718 --> 00:15:36,158 Speaker 4: batting practice, going out in the outfield and power shagging, 340 00:15:36,238 --> 00:15:38,758 Speaker 4: and and mostly running sprints. 341 00:15:39,038 --> 00:15:39,558 Speaker 5: That was it. 342 00:15:40,638 --> 00:15:42,718 Speaker 4: I did enough running where if I had to run 343 00:15:42,758 --> 00:15:46,638 Speaker 4: the bases and say, score a lot, then I wanted 344 00:15:46,638 --> 00:15:48,438 Speaker 4: to be able to, you know, come out next inning 345 00:15:48,518 --> 00:15:50,798 Speaker 4: without you know, being winded or anything like that. 346 00:15:51,198 --> 00:15:52,998 Speaker 3: You could hit So you had to take some VP too. 347 00:15:53,038 --> 00:15:54,718 Speaker 3: That was part of your program back then too. 348 00:15:54,838 --> 00:15:58,438 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, BP yeah, home run Derby for the pictures. 349 00:15:58,558 --> 00:16:00,278 Speaker 4: A lot of fun doing that. Get your buns down 350 00:16:00,358 --> 00:16:01,478 Speaker 4: and see how far you can hit it. 351 00:16:02,038 --> 00:16:03,638 Speaker 3: So, I mean, but you guys were so athletic. It 352 00:16:03,678 --> 00:16:05,438 Speaker 3: was a I mean, everything you're talking about there was 353 00:16:05,438 --> 00:16:08,158 Speaker 3: like kind of almost like almost a position player routine 354 00:16:08,198 --> 00:16:11,478 Speaker 3: in between. Yah, we were doing a lot of different things. 355 00:16:11,478 --> 00:16:13,238 Speaker 3: I love the shagging part of it. That guys don't. 356 00:16:13,558 --> 00:16:15,318 Speaker 3: I'm not banging on anybody right now, but that a 357 00:16:15,318 --> 00:16:17,358 Speaker 3: lot of that is not how it works these days. 358 00:16:17,398 --> 00:16:21,638 Speaker 3: And yeah, I just prefer like the athletic, the normal 359 00:16:21,878 --> 00:16:25,198 Speaker 3: body movement routine kind of a thing that you're describing 360 00:16:25,278 --> 00:16:27,518 Speaker 3: right there. I don't even know how much Back then 361 00:16:27,558 --> 00:16:29,078 Speaker 3: you had to run with your pitching coach a lot 362 00:16:29,078 --> 00:16:30,878 Speaker 3: of times too. They would be out there watching that 363 00:16:30,918 --> 00:16:33,318 Speaker 3: whole thing and some of that. Some of that, I 364 00:16:33,398 --> 00:16:36,038 Speaker 3: just think it's getting to the point where it's way 365 00:16:36,078 --> 00:16:40,398 Speaker 3: too lopsided and not really incorporating things like that that 366 00:16:40,438 --> 00:16:41,678 Speaker 3: we had done in the past that I think are 367 00:16:41,678 --> 00:16:43,918 Speaker 3: really more vital than than is realized. 368 00:16:44,358 --> 00:16:45,478 Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. 369 00:16:45,558 --> 00:16:48,118 Speaker 4: I mean I know on Sundays we had pitchers enfield 370 00:16:48,238 --> 00:16:51,438 Speaker 4: where you know, Smoltsy would play short, I'd go to second. 371 00:16:51,478 --> 00:16:54,518 Speaker 4: We had Avery at first, and yeah, we sat there 372 00:16:54,518 --> 00:16:56,798 Speaker 4: and played the killed on Sundays because that was an 373 00:16:57,198 --> 00:17:01,478 Speaker 4: optional hitting day for the guys. So you know, we lived. Yeah, 374 00:17:01,518 --> 00:17:03,798 Speaker 4: we had a lot of fun being a baseball player, 375 00:17:04,118 --> 00:17:04,638 Speaker 4: just a pitcher. 376 00:17:05,478 --> 00:17:09,038 Speaker 1: Greg, give me your idea on how you treated velocity, 377 00:17:09,158 --> 00:17:11,838 Speaker 1: because I always thought earlier in your career you weren't 378 00:17:11,878 --> 00:17:15,718 Speaker 1: give enough credit for the quality of your stuff. Locasion 379 00:17:15,758 --> 00:17:17,638 Speaker 1: they talked a lot about the quality of your stuff 380 00:17:17,718 --> 00:17:22,158 Speaker 1: was really really good, and give me an idea of 381 00:17:22,638 --> 00:17:25,398 Speaker 1: what you were throwing in terms of, you know, the 382 00:17:25,478 --> 00:17:29,358 Speaker 1: percentage that you had in the tank, and was there 383 00:17:29,798 --> 00:17:32,678 Speaker 1: times maybe it was each time you took the ball 384 00:17:32,798 --> 00:17:35,718 Speaker 1: that you sort of paced yourself in terms of you low, 385 00:17:35,838 --> 00:17:37,598 Speaker 1: knowing you were probably going to get the same hitters 386 00:17:37,598 --> 00:17:38,918 Speaker 1: out three or four times. 387 00:17:39,758 --> 00:17:42,318 Speaker 4: You never really paced yourself, but you had to do 388 00:17:42,358 --> 00:17:45,398 Speaker 4: something a little different the third and fourth time through 389 00:17:45,398 --> 00:17:48,518 Speaker 4: the lineup. You know, hopefully you pitched the inside enough. 390 00:17:49,038 --> 00:17:51,878 Speaker 4: You know, in a perfect world, when it's late in 391 00:17:51,918 --> 00:17:55,718 Speaker 4: the game, you realize you're a little tired, so you 392 00:17:55,758 --> 00:17:58,398 Speaker 4: have to rely on your command more than your velocity. 393 00:17:58,678 --> 00:18:01,118 Speaker 4: And at the same time, your changeups usually probably going 394 00:18:01,158 --> 00:18:02,398 Speaker 4: to be better than your breaking ball. 395 00:18:02,598 --> 00:18:05,078 Speaker 5: So you know, that was than I understood. 396 00:18:05,198 --> 00:18:08,078 Speaker 4: So, you know, the first two times through the lineup, 397 00:18:08,078 --> 00:18:11,078 Speaker 4: if I could stay away from, you know, throwing too 398 00:18:11,078 --> 00:18:13,358 Speaker 4: many fastballs away, I wanted to show the guys in. 399 00:18:13,438 --> 00:18:15,158 Speaker 4: I wanted to show them a breaking ball because I 400 00:18:15,198 --> 00:18:17,478 Speaker 4: knew later on in the game that I was going 401 00:18:17,558 --> 00:18:20,358 Speaker 4: to have more success throwing fastballs away in change ups, 402 00:18:20,798 --> 00:18:22,638 Speaker 4: So I didn't want to abuse that the first couple 403 00:18:22,678 --> 00:18:23,998 Speaker 4: of times through the lineup. 404 00:18:24,238 --> 00:18:27,158 Speaker 1: And I mentioned the fact that I remember you telling 405 00:18:27,198 --> 00:18:29,238 Speaker 1: me once when you were in trouble you thought about 406 00:18:29,278 --> 00:18:31,638 Speaker 1: not throwing harder but locating better. 407 00:18:31,998 --> 00:18:35,438 Speaker 5: Absolutely. Yeah, I mean execution wins. 408 00:18:35,518 --> 00:18:38,598 Speaker 4: I know velocity is nice and big sliders are nice, 409 00:18:39,158 --> 00:18:43,478 Speaker 4: but you know, execution still wins even in today's game. 410 00:18:43,518 --> 00:18:46,158 Speaker 4: You know, the pitcher that's going out there and executing 411 00:18:46,198 --> 00:18:48,838 Speaker 4: the most quality pitches is the one that's going to win. 412 00:18:48,918 --> 00:18:50,478 Speaker 4: You know, I always told the guys, look, it's not 413 00:18:50,518 --> 00:18:53,478 Speaker 4: a speed contest, it's a pitching contest. You know, if 414 00:18:53,478 --> 00:18:55,278 Speaker 4: that was the case, Nolan Ryan would have went, you know, 415 00:18:55,358 --> 00:18:56,318 Speaker 4: five hundred to no. 416 00:18:56,318 --> 00:18:57,598 Speaker 5: Nobody threw harder than him. 417 00:18:57,718 --> 00:19:01,118 Speaker 4: So you know, you have to be able to execute 418 00:19:01,118 --> 00:19:03,878 Speaker 4: pitches and you know, get your break the ball down 419 00:19:04,318 --> 00:19:05,878 Speaker 4: and locate some fastballs. 420 00:19:06,318 --> 00:19:09,838 Speaker 3: Quick quick question too. I mean, okay, your overarching philosophy. 421 00:19:09,878 --> 00:19:11,558 Speaker 3: You go out there, you start the game to get 422 00:19:11,678 --> 00:19:15,078 Speaker 3: I mean you were famous for going through eight nine 423 00:19:15,118 --> 00:19:18,318 Speaker 3: innings with the limited number of pitches. Hitter comes up 424 00:19:18,318 --> 00:19:20,598 Speaker 3: to the plate, obviously your first thought is not to 425 00:19:20,598 --> 00:19:23,558 Speaker 3: strike him up, but to elicit soft contact with the 426 00:19:23,638 --> 00:19:26,078 Speaker 3: ball player early. Make your defense player or how did 427 00:19:26,158 --> 00:19:28,758 Speaker 3: you what was what was your overarching philosophy with that. 428 00:19:29,198 --> 00:19:30,798 Speaker 5: I mean, it's pitch selection. 429 00:19:31,158 --> 00:19:34,438 Speaker 4: You know, you can't get a strike out until two 430 00:19:34,478 --> 00:19:36,878 Speaker 4: strikes anyway, so most of the time you're trying to 431 00:19:36,878 --> 00:19:37,918 Speaker 4: get strike one or two. 432 00:19:38,078 --> 00:19:41,078 Speaker 5: So you know, it was, what's the safest pitch to throw? 433 00:19:41,158 --> 00:19:43,278 Speaker 4: What's the easiest pitch I can throw right now to 434 00:19:43,318 --> 00:19:45,118 Speaker 4: get a strike and if he hits it, it stays 435 00:19:45,118 --> 00:19:47,398 Speaker 4: in front of the outfield. You know that That was 436 00:19:47,438 --> 00:19:50,038 Speaker 4: how I did my pitch selection, and you know the 437 00:19:50,118 --> 00:19:54,198 Speaker 4: hitter would determine that or the count, you know, and 438 00:19:54,238 --> 00:19:57,598 Speaker 4: then two strikes again, you know, you try to beat 439 00:19:57,638 --> 00:20:00,878 Speaker 4: them with location, and you know you accidentally get. 440 00:20:00,758 --> 00:20:02,038 Speaker 5: A lot of strikeouts that way. 441 00:20:02,318 --> 00:20:04,918 Speaker 4: You know you're not necessarily trying to strike the guy out, 442 00:20:04,998 --> 00:20:06,598 Speaker 4: but you know there's something in the back of your 443 00:20:06,598 --> 00:20:08,318 Speaker 4: mind going, if I put that ball right there, he 444 00:20:08,478 --> 00:20:12,358 Speaker 4: might not swing at it. So you know, it was 445 00:20:12,478 --> 00:20:16,758 Speaker 4: just really tried to keep it simple. Oh two, I 446 00:20:16,798 --> 00:20:19,318 Speaker 4: figured it's the hardest it's the hardest count to hit in. 447 00:20:19,718 --> 00:20:21,878 Speaker 5: So I always thought that's the easiest. 448 00:20:21,558 --> 00:20:25,278 Speaker 4: Count to throw a strike in. You know, so too, 449 00:20:25,318 --> 00:20:26,118 Speaker 4: it's the hardest count. 450 00:20:26,118 --> 00:20:26,478 Speaker 5: To hit it. 451 00:20:27,038 --> 00:20:29,958 Speaker 4: You know, I never understood the setup pitcher the waist pitch. 452 00:20:30,118 --> 00:20:32,078 Speaker 4: You know, that made no sense to me. You know, 453 00:20:32,998 --> 00:20:34,958 Speaker 4: you know, every time you throw a setup pitcher a 454 00:20:34,958 --> 00:20:36,838 Speaker 4: waste pitch, it puts a lot of pressure on the 455 00:20:36,878 --> 00:20:39,118 Speaker 4: next pitch if if you don't execute it. 456 00:20:39,238 --> 00:20:41,438 Speaker 5: So you know, why give away a free pitch? 457 00:20:42,118 --> 00:20:42,438 Speaker 2: Greg? 458 00:20:42,478 --> 00:20:44,838 Speaker 1: I remember late in your career in spring training year 459 00:20:44,878 --> 00:20:47,438 Speaker 1: with the Padres, and David Wells was there as well, 460 00:20:47,958 --> 00:20:50,118 Speaker 1: and the two of you were having a conversation and 461 00:20:50,118 --> 00:20:52,478 Speaker 1: somehow you got around the talking about all the complete 462 00:20:52,558 --> 00:20:55,238 Speaker 1: games both of you threw in the minor leagues. 463 00:20:55,638 --> 00:20:57,198 Speaker 2: Yeah, Greg Mannix wasn't in the. 464 00:20:57,118 --> 00:21:00,678 Speaker 1: Minors for a long time, but he had seventeen complete 465 00:21:00,718 --> 00:21:04,438 Speaker 1: games in the minor leagues. Most pitchers now, most pitchers 466 00:21:04,478 --> 00:21:07,718 Speaker 1: are getting to the big leagues now without ever seeing 467 00:21:07,798 --> 00:21:10,598 Speaker 1: even the seventh thing, without ever seeing. 468 00:21:10,358 --> 00:21:11,638 Speaker 2: A one hundredth pitch. 469 00:21:11,838 --> 00:21:14,158 Speaker 1: Yeah, give me your take on where you think the 470 00:21:14,198 --> 00:21:17,758 Speaker 1: game is gone in terms of dialing back the workloads 471 00:21:17,798 --> 00:21:20,278 Speaker 1: of starting pitchers, even in terms of how much rest 472 00:21:20,318 --> 00:21:21,038 Speaker 1: they get as well. 473 00:21:21,638 --> 00:21:23,878 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there's kind of a fine line between 474 00:21:24,078 --> 00:21:28,238 Speaker 4: developing and also teaching the guys how to win you know, 475 00:21:28,358 --> 00:21:32,438 Speaker 4: I think, I think you have to teach winning as 476 00:21:32,478 --> 00:21:35,078 Speaker 4: you're developing. And you know that that's the one thing 477 00:21:35,158 --> 00:21:38,478 Speaker 4: that I didn't see in the minor leagues. I've been 478 00:21:38,518 --> 00:21:40,638 Speaker 4: to a few games, even in Vegas the last couple 479 00:21:40,678 --> 00:21:43,958 Speaker 4: of years. The Triple A team of the A's is 480 00:21:43,998 --> 00:21:48,718 Speaker 4: out there, and you don't see you don't see players 481 00:21:48,758 --> 00:21:52,398 Speaker 4: doing things to win. It's more like, well, I got 482 00:21:52,438 --> 00:21:55,078 Speaker 4: seventy pitches and I need to throw twenty two percent 483 00:21:55,118 --> 00:21:57,718 Speaker 4: off speed, and you know I need to throw you know, 484 00:21:57,838 --> 00:22:01,598 Speaker 4: five percent fastballs up. You know, it seems like it's 485 00:22:01,638 --> 00:22:04,438 Speaker 4: not let's read the hitter or the situation, wait and 486 00:22:04,478 --> 00:22:05,758 Speaker 4: execute a pitch off of that. 487 00:22:06,158 --> 00:22:08,518 Speaker 5: It just seems it seems too prescripted. 488 00:22:08,998 --> 00:22:12,718 Speaker 4: And you know, I would love to see the minor 489 00:22:12,798 --> 00:22:15,678 Speaker 4: league coaches like develop their players and how to win 490 00:22:15,758 --> 00:22:18,518 Speaker 4: baseball games instead of just how to stay healthy and 491 00:22:18,718 --> 00:22:21,798 Speaker 4: you know, throw the number of pitches they're supposed to throw. 492 00:22:22,598 --> 00:22:25,558 Speaker 3: Your your two seam or your front hip to the lefty. 493 00:22:26,198 --> 00:22:28,158 Speaker 3: I mean I didn't I saw you like a little bit, 494 00:22:28,198 --> 00:22:30,318 Speaker 3: and even in instructionally back in the day too, because 495 00:22:30,318 --> 00:22:34,158 Speaker 3: that was what the Angels then. But that's that is 496 00:22:34,358 --> 00:22:38,238 Speaker 3: beautiful that's Kyle Hendricks has some of that in him also. 497 00:22:38,278 --> 00:22:40,438 Speaker 3: That's been very successful in the change up off of that. 498 00:22:40,998 --> 00:22:43,438 Speaker 3: When how did you develop that? When did that come about? 499 00:22:43,558 --> 00:22:46,798 Speaker 3: Who was the instigator? I love watching that, We all do. 500 00:22:46,998 --> 00:22:48,678 Speaker 3: Bartolo Colo and I used to sit in a room 501 00:22:48,678 --> 00:22:51,958 Speaker 3: with bart part and he would just play front hip 502 00:22:51,998 --> 00:22:54,518 Speaker 3: come backers on lefties and giggle the whole time. 503 00:22:54,718 --> 00:22:54,958 Speaker 5: Yeah. 504 00:22:55,518 --> 00:22:58,558 Speaker 3: It's a beautiful and a lot of guys aren't it 505 00:22:58,598 --> 00:23:00,958 Speaker 3: courageous enough? Do they work on enough? But I mean 506 00:23:01,638 --> 00:23:03,278 Speaker 3: if I'm a righty and I could come back a 507 00:23:03,358 --> 00:23:05,918 Speaker 3: lefty like that, man, it frees him up. Yeah, wow 508 00:23:06,238 --> 00:23:06,838 Speaker 3: with a weapon. 509 00:23:07,078 --> 00:23:10,078 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's weird because you know, the old 510 00:23:10,078 --> 00:23:12,118 Speaker 4: school of thought was you can't pitch a lefty down 511 00:23:12,118 --> 00:23:15,158 Speaker 4: and end, you know. And I was a very young 512 00:23:15,238 --> 00:23:18,158 Speaker 4: pitcher and I tried that pitch with two strikes. Of course, 513 00:23:18,198 --> 00:23:20,158 Speaker 4: it leaked over the middle and the guy hit it out, 514 00:23:20,198 --> 00:23:22,838 Speaker 4: and you know, I kind of got scolded a little bit. 515 00:23:22,918 --> 00:23:25,318 Speaker 4: What are you doing nothing around? Down and into a lefty? 516 00:23:25,438 --> 00:23:28,878 Speaker 4: And sure enough, man, that night, I'm watching the Dodger 517 00:23:28,918 --> 00:23:32,758 Speaker 4: game in Hersheiser's pitching and he's doing it, and I 518 00:23:32,798 --> 00:23:35,118 Speaker 4: saw oral you know, get about two or three punch 519 00:23:35,158 --> 00:23:39,438 Speaker 4: outs that night throwing that pitch. And you know, I 520 00:23:39,558 --> 00:23:42,038 Speaker 4: had a conversation with my coach the next day and said, 521 00:23:42,078 --> 00:23:42,998 Speaker 4: you know, I don't want to give. 522 00:23:42,918 --> 00:23:44,678 Speaker 5: Up on that pitch. I want to keep throwing it. 523 00:23:44,718 --> 00:23:46,358 Speaker 3: And good for you. 524 00:23:45,678 --> 00:23:49,078 Speaker 4: You know, it's if you throw it I mean, it helps, 525 00:23:49,158 --> 00:23:50,398 Speaker 4: it helps if you can throw it. 526 00:23:50,838 --> 00:23:51,918 Speaker 2: Greg, give us an idea. 527 00:23:51,998 --> 00:23:55,398 Speaker 1: Besides, when you're now playing golf, what you're doing these days. 528 00:23:56,158 --> 00:23:58,038 Speaker 1: I know for a while there you had been working 529 00:23:58,038 --> 00:23:59,878 Speaker 1: with a lot of young pitchers. You still have your 530 00:23:59,878 --> 00:24:00,758 Speaker 1: hand in baseball. 531 00:24:01,558 --> 00:24:05,798 Speaker 5: You know what. No, this spring I didn't really do anything. 532 00:24:05,838 --> 00:24:08,318 Speaker 4: We actually had our first grand kid about ten days ago, 533 00:24:08,598 --> 00:24:10,358 Speaker 4: so I wanted to. 534 00:24:10,318 --> 00:24:11,118 Speaker 5: Be around for that. 535 00:24:11,878 --> 00:24:14,478 Speaker 4: I was with the Rangers the year before with my 536 00:24:14,478 --> 00:24:16,758 Speaker 4: brother down there for you know, about twenty days of 537 00:24:16,798 --> 00:24:20,238 Speaker 4: spring training twenty five days, and I kind of missed it, 538 00:24:20,278 --> 00:24:23,118 Speaker 4: you know, but I wanted to be home next to 539 00:24:23,198 --> 00:24:25,838 Speaker 4: the next to the kids and see my first grandkid 540 00:24:25,918 --> 00:24:26,398 Speaker 4: being born. 541 00:24:26,478 --> 00:24:29,238 Speaker 5: And you know, we travel around a little bit. 542 00:24:29,318 --> 00:24:32,598 Speaker 4: We spend some time in California and you know, watch 543 00:24:32,598 --> 00:24:33,398 Speaker 4: a lot of Netflix. 544 00:24:34,718 --> 00:24:37,678 Speaker 3: Me God live the same life, my God, only I'm 545 00:24:37,678 --> 00:24:39,438 Speaker 3: not as good at golf as you are. 546 00:24:40,238 --> 00:24:43,078 Speaker 1: Hey, Greg, before we let you go here, you know, 547 00:24:43,158 --> 00:24:46,198 Speaker 1: Major League Baseball has put together They've gathered about one 548 00:24:46,278 --> 00:24:52,278 Speaker 1: hundred different experts in the field when it comes to biomechanics, coaching, doctors, trainers, managers, 549 00:24:52,318 --> 00:24:54,198 Speaker 1: you name it. They're trying to get their arms around 550 00:24:54,238 --> 00:24:57,558 Speaker 1: the issue here and and where they go forward from 551 00:24:57,558 --> 00:25:02,958 Speaker 1: here to try to keep pictures healthier. If I include 552 00:25:02,998 --> 00:25:06,598 Speaker 1: you in this group, you're Greg Mannix. You pitched twenty 553 00:25:06,638 --> 00:25:09,198 Speaker 1: three years without an arm injury. I want to hear 554 00:25:09,198 --> 00:25:11,238 Speaker 1: what Greg Mannix has to say about how we move 555 00:25:11,358 --> 00:25:15,718 Speaker 1: this game forward. What kind of suggestions ideas could you offer? 556 00:25:16,238 --> 00:25:19,238 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, all you can do is speak from experience. 557 00:25:19,278 --> 00:25:19,478 Speaker 3: You know. 558 00:25:19,558 --> 00:25:22,958 Speaker 4: I think, you know, the decades before we got there, 559 00:25:22,998 --> 00:25:25,398 Speaker 4: the pitchers were throwing three hundred innings a year. You know, 560 00:25:25,598 --> 00:25:28,318 Speaker 4: we're trying to get to like two thirty two forty. 561 00:25:29,038 --> 00:25:31,438 Speaker 4: The guys before us were thrown over three hundred. So 562 00:25:32,598 --> 00:25:34,038 Speaker 4: you know, that's just kind of the way the game 563 00:25:34,318 --> 00:25:36,838 Speaker 4: has been going, you know, for the last you know, 564 00:25:36,998 --> 00:25:40,718 Speaker 4: few decades, and you know it's a shame. I don't 565 00:25:40,718 --> 00:25:42,838 Speaker 4: really have an answer why these guys are getting hurt. 566 00:25:42,878 --> 00:25:46,278 Speaker 4: I mean, It's easy to say they're overthrowing or they're 567 00:25:46,318 --> 00:25:48,438 Speaker 4: trying to throw it too hard, you know, But you 568 00:25:48,518 --> 00:25:51,678 Speaker 4: watch somebody like Jacob deGrom and you watch him throw 569 00:25:51,718 --> 00:25:53,958 Speaker 4: and it's an easy ninety eight coming out of his hand. 570 00:25:53,958 --> 00:25:59,238 Speaker 4: He's not overthrowing, but it's still ninety eight. So you know, 571 00:25:59,318 --> 00:26:01,758 Speaker 4: that's tough question, you know. I think that's best left 572 00:26:01,838 --> 00:26:03,798 Speaker 4: up to the medical guys and all that. But I 573 00:26:04,078 --> 00:26:07,678 Speaker 4: know I know if you're able to repeat your delivery, 574 00:26:07,798 --> 00:26:08,638 Speaker 4: I think you'll arm. 575 00:26:08,878 --> 00:26:10,598 Speaker 5: Your arm will learn to take care of itself. 576 00:26:10,638 --> 00:26:15,198 Speaker 2: Well said Greg Madnix. Always a pleasure. No one knows the. 577 00:26:15,198 --> 00:26:17,518 Speaker 1: Art of pitching and did it better than Greg Mannix. 578 00:26:17,558 --> 00:26:19,238 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us on the Book of 579 00:26:19,278 --> 00:26:21,438 Speaker 1: Joe podcast and and good luck. 580 00:26:21,478 --> 00:26:23,598 Speaker 2: Bring back a trophy from this weekend at Las. 581 00:26:23,598 --> 00:26:26,878 Speaker 4: Colinasky, well, I'll buy shirt and the pro shop. 582 00:26:26,878 --> 00:26:30,518 Speaker 3: I'll take that home with Thanks Greg, I appreciate it. Man. 583 00:26:30,718 --> 00:26:31,838 Speaker 5: All right, guys, thank you, guys. 584 00:26:32,038 --> 00:26:32,998 Speaker 2: Bye, all right. 585 00:26:32,998 --> 00:26:37,998 Speaker 1: Thanks to Greg Maddox all time winning his pitcher Alive 586 00:26:38,118 --> 00:26:41,438 Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty five wins in the major leagues 587 00:26:42,158 --> 00:26:46,238 Speaker 1: and most astonishing given today's climate, twenty three years in 588 00:26:46,278 --> 00:26:48,838 Speaker 1: the Big league's five thousand innings without. 589 00:26:48,638 --> 00:26:49,518 Speaker 2: An arm injury. 590 00:26:49,758 --> 00:26:51,118 Speaker 3: It is incredible thanks. 591 00:26:50,958 --> 00:26:52,878 Speaker 1: To Greg Maddix. And we'll wrap up this edition to 592 00:26:52,878 --> 00:27:06,958 Speaker 1: the Book of Joe when we get back. Welcome back 593 00:27:06,998 --> 00:27:09,518 Speaker 1: to the Book of Joe podcast with Me, Tom Verducci, 594 00:27:09,598 --> 00:27:12,758 Speaker 1: and Joe Medden. Well, Joe, that was It's always fascinating. 595 00:27:12,758 --> 00:27:14,598 Speaker 1: I've always said people ask me a lot of times, 596 00:27:14,598 --> 00:27:17,638 Speaker 1: you know who youre, what interviews to you are your 597 00:27:17,678 --> 00:27:20,478 Speaker 1: favorite over the years, and Greg Mannix has always won 598 00:27:20,558 --> 00:27:22,558 Speaker 1: for me because I always feel like each time I 599 00:27:22,558 --> 00:27:24,798 Speaker 1: talk to him, I learned something, you know, and that's 600 00:27:24,838 --> 00:27:27,078 Speaker 1: what I want to do as I cover Major League Baseball. 601 00:27:27,518 --> 00:27:29,998 Speaker 1: I want to learn how these guys do what they do. 602 00:27:30,038 --> 00:27:32,118 Speaker 1: I want to learn inside the game. I don't want 603 00:27:32,118 --> 00:27:36,038 Speaker 1: the superficial stuff. And Greg Mannix is playing three D chess, 604 00:27:35,758 --> 00:27:37,998 Speaker 1: that's what he did on the mound, and you know, 605 00:27:38,038 --> 00:27:40,998 Speaker 1: I always learned something from him. So I'm curious for you, Joe, 606 00:27:41,078 --> 00:27:44,358 Speaker 1: listening to Greg talk about this issue here, what stood 607 00:27:44,358 --> 00:27:46,758 Speaker 1: out for you from his perspective on pitching today. 608 00:27:47,358 --> 00:27:49,958 Speaker 3: No, he kind of agrees with what we had been 609 00:27:49,958 --> 00:27:52,998 Speaker 3: saying regarding the velocity and the chasing of velocity and 610 00:27:53,038 --> 00:27:56,038 Speaker 3: how that kind of leads to the issues that we're in. 611 00:27:56,158 --> 00:27:59,958 Speaker 3: And then on top of that, he talked about pitching overthrowing, 612 00:28:00,558 --> 00:28:03,198 Speaker 3: and that's what he did. Also, I saw him, like 613 00:28:03,198 --> 00:28:05,398 Speaker 3: I said, in instruction leagues of some as a very 614 00:28:05,438 --> 00:28:08,478 Speaker 3: young pitcher. Didn't realize at that time, I wasn't that 615 00:28:08,518 --> 00:28:09,798 Speaker 3: good of a scout that he's going to be as 616 00:28:09,798 --> 00:28:11,598 Speaker 3: great as he turned out to be in the fact 617 00:28:11,678 --> 00:28:13,958 Speaker 3: that he was going to go all that way without injury. 618 00:28:15,358 --> 00:28:17,118 Speaker 3: But again, he, like you said, he wants to do 619 00:28:17,478 --> 00:28:20,438 Speaker 3: in simple terms, do simple better. His methods so easy. 620 00:28:21,078 --> 00:28:23,838 Speaker 3: You know, day after a walk a lot, get the 621 00:28:23,838 --> 00:28:25,958 Speaker 3: soreness out and have a side day. But I took 622 00:28:25,998 --> 00:28:28,478 Speaker 3: it off if it wasn't feeling that good. I would 623 00:28:28,518 --> 00:28:30,838 Speaker 3: work on things specifically on my side day, and then 624 00:28:30,878 --> 00:28:34,598 Speaker 3: two more days and then he would pitch pretty simple. 625 00:28:34,758 --> 00:28:36,238 Speaker 3: I mean, there's not a whole lot going on there. 626 00:28:36,238 --> 00:28:39,238 Speaker 3: He'd pick up the other team regards to scouting and 627 00:28:39,238 --> 00:28:42,278 Speaker 3: how he would do it. But the simplicity of it 628 00:28:42,318 --> 00:28:44,358 Speaker 3: really stands out to me, and I, as you know, 629 00:28:44,478 --> 00:28:47,318 Speaker 3: do simple better, I'm all about it. There's not a 630 00:28:47,318 --> 00:28:49,118 Speaker 3: whole lot going there, and I know some of it. 631 00:28:49,238 --> 00:28:51,398 Speaker 3: I knew one of its pitching coaches from particularly mister 632 00:28:51,438 --> 00:28:54,198 Speaker 3: Dick Pole, and now mister Pole did things and I 633 00:28:54,198 --> 00:28:56,638 Speaker 3: could see those two guys hitting it off because things 634 00:28:56,678 --> 00:28:59,758 Speaker 3: were kept simple and to the point and not a 635 00:28:59,758 --> 00:29:02,598 Speaker 3: lot of fluff and fanfare. It was just pitching. It 636 00:29:02,638 --> 00:29:05,598 Speaker 3: was baseball and Fleet. He was a hitter. He did everything. 637 00:29:05,838 --> 00:29:09,078 Speaker 3: Him and that group of Atlanta pitchers were all good 638 00:29:09,118 --> 00:29:12,158 Speaker 3: golfers apparently too. They were athletes, man, and they did 639 00:29:12,438 --> 00:29:16,398 Speaker 3: things athletically, and it wasn't a training situation that took 640 00:29:16,438 --> 00:29:20,478 Speaker 3: them away from being baseball players. So I know that's 641 00:29:20,518 --> 00:29:25,958 Speaker 3: not done in that manner anymore. Specialization is specialization, and 642 00:29:26,518 --> 00:29:29,958 Speaker 3: we always oftentimes I guess people think it's better. But 643 00:29:30,038 --> 00:29:33,118 Speaker 3: he just also explained the liberal arts component of growing up. 644 00:29:33,158 --> 00:29:36,198 Speaker 3: He played all the sports, all the sports, different body movements, 645 00:29:36,198 --> 00:29:40,118 Speaker 3: didn't get stale, heard different voices, different coaches, learned different things. 646 00:29:40,718 --> 00:29:43,878 Speaker 3: All this stuff that I know for me is accurate 647 00:29:43,918 --> 00:29:45,398 Speaker 3: and the right way to do things. So maybe he 648 00:29:45,478 --> 00:29:49,958 Speaker 3: validated some of my points to myself. But I'd love 649 00:29:49,998 --> 00:29:54,118 Speaker 3: to see that resurface on a minor league level, and again, 650 00:29:54,638 --> 00:29:57,478 Speaker 3: more minor league players, more minor league pitchers with different 651 00:29:57,518 --> 00:30:02,478 Speaker 3: skill sets, including deception as being part of this cachet 652 00:30:02,518 --> 00:30:05,918 Speaker 3: of pitchers were trying to raise and understand that velocity's 653 00:30:06,558 --> 00:30:08,078 Speaker 3: kind of groovy, but it breaks down. 654 00:30:08,358 --> 00:30:11,318 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny you're mentioning the liberal arts training, if 655 00:30:11,318 --> 00:30:13,998 Speaker 1: you will, for Greg Maddox, playing multiple sports growing up, 656 00:30:14,718 --> 00:30:17,398 Speaker 1: taking ground balls in the infield, shagging in the outfield, 657 00:30:17,518 --> 00:30:20,798 Speaker 1: right touching field, days on the mound, throwing, not trying 658 00:30:20,798 --> 00:30:22,838 Speaker 1: to max things out with an iPad behind you. But 659 00:30:22,958 --> 00:30:26,518 Speaker 1: the spin ray was. But then it also included playing golf. 660 00:30:26,878 --> 00:30:30,198 Speaker 1: I mean, these guys, the raised pitchers, played a ton 661 00:30:30,398 --> 00:30:32,758 Speaker 1: of golf. I even't played with them a couple of times, 662 00:30:33,118 --> 00:30:35,398 Speaker 1: and you know, as they told me, you know, that 663 00:30:35,518 --> 00:30:38,278 Speaker 1: meant getting up early, going to these really nice courses, 664 00:30:38,318 --> 00:30:39,638 Speaker 1: which means they weren't out late. 665 00:30:39,638 --> 00:30:40,838 Speaker 2: They took care of themselves. 666 00:30:41,398 --> 00:30:43,358 Speaker 1: But I think getting out there and playing golf was 667 00:30:43,438 --> 00:30:46,118 Speaker 1: part of that liberal arts training you're talking about. Joe, 668 00:30:46,158 --> 00:30:48,758 Speaker 1: and I remember years ago, I think it was Claude O. 669 00:30:48,918 --> 00:30:52,278 Speaker 1: Steen was the pitching coach of the Texas Rangers, and 670 00:30:52,398 --> 00:30:55,638 Speaker 1: he encouraged his pitchers to go out and play golf 671 00:30:55,678 --> 00:30:58,558 Speaker 1: with him. You know, they'd have a little side bets 672 00:30:58,558 --> 00:31:00,838 Speaker 1: and that put pressure on them. You know, they weren't 673 00:31:00,838 --> 00:31:05,038 Speaker 1: conceding a two foot putt. The idea of competition, of 674 00:31:05,078 --> 00:31:07,478 Speaker 1: freeing up the mind, that having the body move in 675 00:31:07,518 --> 00:31:10,358 Speaker 1: different ways, there was a benefit to that. And I think, 676 00:31:10,398 --> 00:31:13,358 Speaker 1: as you mentioned a great word you mentioned, Joe specialized. 677 00:31:13,398 --> 00:31:16,838 Speaker 1: Our society, not just our sport, have become so specialized. 678 00:31:17,158 --> 00:31:20,598 Speaker 1: We're doing one thing really well and missing out on 679 00:31:20,878 --> 00:31:24,758 Speaker 1: what I call the humanities or the liberal arts of athletics. 680 00:31:25,278 --> 00:31:27,598 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean the part of it too is okay, 681 00:31:27,718 --> 00:31:29,958 Speaker 3: if you don't go play golf. When they did go 682 00:31:29,998 --> 00:31:32,918 Speaker 3: play golf, what does that mean. They weren't sleeping in, 683 00:31:32,958 --> 00:31:35,478 Speaker 3: they weren't laying around a hotel room. They weren't just 684 00:31:35,878 --> 00:31:38,918 Speaker 3: basically doing nothing. Their body wasn't moving at all. And 685 00:31:39,358 --> 00:31:42,238 Speaker 3: as a latter part of my term as a manager 686 00:31:42,638 --> 00:31:45,798 Speaker 3: is when I finally started playing some golf and man, 687 00:31:45,878 --> 00:31:47,758 Speaker 3: I would get up early like that. I'd go play 688 00:31:47,798 --> 00:31:50,478 Speaker 3: golf and my body felt so much better for it. 689 00:31:50,558 --> 00:31:52,078 Speaker 3: I'd come back, you take a nap and you go 690 00:31:52,078 --> 00:31:55,158 Speaker 3: to the ballpark. I think it's frowned upon because it's 691 00:31:55,198 --> 00:31:57,958 Speaker 3: not understood. I mean, when I used to ride my 692 00:31:57,998 --> 00:31:59,598 Speaker 3: bike everymore, I used to take my bike on a 693 00:31:59,678 --> 00:32:02,358 Speaker 3: road for years, and I could ride my bike all 694 00:32:02,398 --> 00:32:05,958 Speaker 3: morning and I would go from Copley Square all we 695 00:32:06,078 --> 00:32:08,118 Speaker 3: have to bust in college and back as an example 696 00:32:08,438 --> 00:32:11,038 Speaker 3: in city of Boston, and that was looked upon as being, oh, 697 00:32:11,038 --> 00:32:12,918 Speaker 3: that's pretty cool, that's groovy. But the moment you want 698 00:32:12,958 --> 00:32:17,198 Speaker 3: to play golf somehow it's considered leisurely or the point 699 00:32:17,198 --> 00:32:20,358 Speaker 3: where you may get yourself tired. There's all these different 700 00:32:20,398 --> 00:32:23,158 Speaker 3: preconceived notions that I don't agree with. My if you 701 00:32:23,438 --> 00:32:25,718 Speaker 3: are okay, if you're a regular player, it's harder to 702 00:32:25,758 --> 00:32:27,998 Speaker 3: do that if you're a regular player often, but if 703 00:32:27,998 --> 00:32:29,438 Speaker 3: you do it once in a while, I think it 704 00:32:29,478 --> 00:32:32,518 Speaker 3: actually is beneficial as opposed to laying around all day. 705 00:32:32,558 --> 00:32:35,358 Speaker 3: So that's what I do dig on that. I thought 706 00:32:35,398 --> 00:32:37,758 Speaker 3: it was a great idea. I've talked to other pictures 707 00:32:37,798 --> 00:32:41,078 Speaker 3: about it primarily, but I do think there's something to 708 00:32:41,078 --> 00:32:41,638 Speaker 3: be said for that. 709 00:32:41,758 --> 00:32:44,358 Speaker 1: Yes, hey, Joe, I wanted to go back to something 710 00:32:44,478 --> 00:32:48,798 Speaker 1: Greg said about Jacob de Gram. Of course, Greg mentioned 711 00:32:48,838 --> 00:32:50,718 Speaker 1: he worked with Texas last year with his brother and 712 00:32:50,758 --> 00:32:54,078 Speaker 1: Mike Maddocks, the pitching coach there. They know du Gram firsthand, 713 00:32:54,598 --> 00:32:58,158 Speaker 1: and de Gram to me has thrown a baseball when 714 00:32:58,158 --> 00:33:01,238 Speaker 1: he was healthy as well as anybody I've ever seen 715 00:33:01,278 --> 00:33:03,038 Speaker 1: in my life. I'm not saying the best picture ever, 716 00:33:03,358 --> 00:33:06,878 Speaker 1: but he raised the art the power of pitching like 717 00:33:06,958 --> 00:33:10,678 Speaker 1: nothing I've ever seen before. As Greg said, the ball 718 00:33:10,718 --> 00:33:12,958 Speaker 1: came out of his hand easily in the upper nineties, 719 00:33:12,998 --> 00:33:15,878 Speaker 1: He's throwing sliders at ninety five. As a starting pitcher, 720 00:33:15,918 --> 00:33:19,478 Speaker 1: he basically brought closer stuff to the mound for six 721 00:33:19,638 --> 00:33:22,758 Speaker 1: or seven innings. I've never seen that. Seen great pictures 722 00:33:22,838 --> 00:33:26,038 Speaker 1: Greg Maddox included, but at the level he was doing it. 723 00:33:26,118 --> 00:33:29,038 Speaker 1: But you know what, Joe, to me, that's not sustainable. 724 00:33:29,318 --> 00:33:32,878 Speaker 1: And it's not because he had poor mechanics. As Greg said, 725 00:33:32,958 --> 00:33:35,318 Speaker 1: easy gas coming out of his hand. But when you 726 00:33:35,398 --> 00:33:38,638 Speaker 1: look at Jacob de Gram, I mean, first of all, 727 00:33:38,678 --> 00:33:41,158 Speaker 1: he's shredded. The way he takes care of his body 728 00:33:41,238 --> 00:33:44,078 Speaker 1: is just crazy. He is a great athlete, played shortstop 729 00:33:44,078 --> 00:33:46,998 Speaker 1: in college before becoming a full time pitcher. The way 730 00:33:47,038 --> 00:33:49,478 Speaker 1: his body moves through his delivery is very smooth. I 731 00:33:49,478 --> 00:33:52,358 Speaker 1: don't see any red flags with it, but you know it, 732 00:33:52,358 --> 00:33:54,878 Speaker 1: it's like your hell cat, Joe. I mean, the engine 733 00:33:54,958 --> 00:33:57,838 Speaker 1: can only be so big in a chassis and I 734 00:33:57,878 --> 00:34:00,318 Speaker 1: think what's happening here, and Jake is a great example. 735 00:34:00,598 --> 00:34:02,758 Speaker 1: And I love Jacob de Gram, but I think he 736 00:34:02,838 --> 00:34:05,358 Speaker 1: throws too hard for his own good. And by that 737 00:34:05,438 --> 00:34:09,598 Speaker 1: I mean the UCL just cannot withstand the torque that 738 00:34:09,678 --> 00:34:12,478 Speaker 1: is being put upon it. Because we know so much 739 00:34:12,518 --> 00:34:14,918 Speaker 1: about mechanics, we know so much about training, we know 740 00:34:15,038 --> 00:34:17,958 Speaker 1: so much about nutrition, we know so much about how 741 00:34:17,998 --> 00:34:20,998 Speaker 1: to add velocity with weighted balls and such, that what 742 00:34:21,118 --> 00:34:24,598 Speaker 1: you can't control is that little ligament that holds your 743 00:34:24,638 --> 00:34:25,438 Speaker 1: elbow together. 744 00:34:25,758 --> 00:34:28,198 Speaker 3: You know, it looks effortless to us, and I've always 745 00:34:28,238 --> 00:34:30,078 Speaker 3: been a fan of that. And then Zach Wheeler. I 746 00:34:30,118 --> 00:34:32,158 Speaker 3: thought Zach Wheeler was the next Jake de Gram in 747 00:34:32,198 --> 00:34:34,438 Speaker 3: the making when I saw them both with the Mets. 748 00:34:34,478 --> 00:34:37,758 Speaker 3: It's almost like you put that the ball, And I said, 749 00:34:37,758 --> 00:34:39,598 Speaker 3: a conveyor belt was so easy that we just drop 750 00:34:39,638 --> 00:34:42,078 Speaker 3: it on and we'll just go wham to home plate. 751 00:34:42,518 --> 00:34:45,798 Speaker 3: But having said all that, it looks easy, it appears 752 00:34:45,838 --> 00:34:48,638 Speaker 3: to be easy, but who knows what it feels like internally? 753 00:34:48,718 --> 00:34:51,398 Speaker 3: I'm not sure. I mean, some guys are just more 754 00:34:51,438 --> 00:34:54,718 Speaker 3: fluid athletes than others. The bumping grinders of the world, 755 00:34:54,758 --> 00:34:57,998 Speaker 3: like myself. You could see when I'm applying effort, But 756 00:34:58,078 --> 00:35:01,078 Speaker 3: guys like the Grom or Wheeler you do not. Or 757 00:35:01,158 --> 00:35:03,998 Speaker 3: let's go golf, Freddie Couples. I mean, here's a guy 758 00:35:04,038 --> 00:35:06,518 Speaker 3: that you watch that screen. Oh my god, how does 759 00:35:06,558 --> 00:35:09,998 Speaker 3: he hit the ball that far? Whatever? But I guess 760 00:35:09,998 --> 00:35:12,798 Speaker 3: this clubhead speed at the bottom was extraordinary, and of 761 00:35:12,838 --> 00:35:14,758 Speaker 3: course he repeated it all the time. But he did 762 00:35:14,758 --> 00:35:18,718 Speaker 3: it easily. Any athlete that you watch and he performs 763 00:35:18,718 --> 00:35:20,878 Speaker 3: in a manner that looks like he's doing it easily 764 00:35:21,278 --> 00:35:23,638 Speaker 3: could be frustrating to those of us who do not, 765 00:35:23,638 --> 00:35:26,238 Speaker 3: but that does not mean that there's not more effort 766 00:35:26,318 --> 00:35:29,358 Speaker 3: involved than we actually think there is. So and with 767 00:35:29,398 --> 00:35:31,158 Speaker 3: the grum, I'm not sure you probably know better. Does 768 00:35:31,158 --> 00:35:33,438 Speaker 3: his arm go behind him at all? With the elbow 769 00:35:33,438 --> 00:35:35,438 Speaker 3: and stuff. I haven't really seen a slow down picture 770 00:35:35,478 --> 00:35:38,278 Speaker 3: of him, because even if you have an easy method, 771 00:35:38,678 --> 00:35:40,798 Speaker 3: that doesn't mean you know, according to everything we've been 772 00:35:40,798 --> 00:35:45,558 Speaker 3: talking about that really highlights injuries or is involved in injuries. 773 00:35:45,918 --> 00:35:47,718 Speaker 3: I don't really have a great picture of what his 774 00:35:47,798 --> 00:35:51,878 Speaker 3: arm looks like behind him, So anyway, it is easy, 775 00:35:52,038 --> 00:35:54,278 Speaker 3: But is it easy to him internally? I don't know, 776 00:35:54,838 --> 00:35:56,798 Speaker 3: And I know you know a guy like Freddie Couples 777 00:35:56,878 --> 00:35:59,118 Speaker 3: is that injuries over his career also, and who does 778 00:35:59,158 --> 00:36:02,278 Speaker 3: it more easily than him, So it's hard to determine 779 00:36:02,318 --> 00:36:04,558 Speaker 3: effort level just by watching it. 780 00:36:04,558 --> 00:36:05,398 Speaker 2: It's a great point. 781 00:36:05,598 --> 00:36:07,998 Speaker 1: And as long as we're going to finish up here, 782 00:36:08,038 --> 00:36:09,998 Speaker 1: and we had Greg Maddox here, who's playing at the 783 00:36:10,358 --> 00:36:14,638 Speaker 1: Invited Celebrity Classic in Las Colinas this week, let's talk 784 00:36:14,678 --> 00:36:15,278 Speaker 1: about golf. 785 00:36:15,318 --> 00:36:19,838 Speaker 2: You brought it up, Joe, and I'm in watching Masters. 786 00:36:19,998 --> 00:36:22,318 Speaker 1: You know, it was great to see a guy like 787 00:36:23,598 --> 00:36:26,318 Speaker 1: Scotti Scheffler, best player in the world, who's got a 788 00:36:26,358 --> 00:36:29,598 Speaker 1: swing nobody would teach. It's not an analytical swing, right, 789 00:36:29,838 --> 00:36:33,438 Speaker 1: I mean the shuffling in the feet. He was lucky 790 00:36:33,518 --> 00:36:35,318 Speaker 1: enough to find a good coach when he's six or 791 00:36:35,358 --> 00:36:37,278 Speaker 1: seven years old and had the same swing. That's the 792 00:36:37,318 --> 00:36:40,238 Speaker 1: way his body moves. You watch someone like Max Homa, 793 00:36:40,398 --> 00:36:44,118 Speaker 1: there's very little effort in his swing, and then you 794 00:36:44,158 --> 00:36:47,398 Speaker 1: watch someone like Bryson Deshambo with a ton of effort 795 00:36:47,598 --> 00:36:50,998 Speaker 1: in the swing. So, Joe, I know you talk about 796 00:36:51,038 --> 00:36:54,078 Speaker 1: this a lot, but there's not a cookie cutter way 797 00:36:54,198 --> 00:36:56,238 Speaker 1: to succeed. And I think what we all try to 798 00:36:56,278 --> 00:37:00,518 Speaker 1: do is find the best version of ourselves. And that 799 00:37:00,598 --> 00:37:03,878 Speaker 1: mostly means you're not mimicking something, you're not chasing a tempt, 800 00:37:04,398 --> 00:37:06,518 Speaker 1: You're finding the best version of yourself and how your 801 00:37:06,518 --> 00:37:07,198 Speaker 1: body moves. 802 00:37:07,598 --> 00:37:10,678 Speaker 3: That's what I when I hear good mechanics. What does 803 00:37:10,718 --> 00:37:12,998 Speaker 3: that mean? I always said that, what does that mean? 804 00:37:13,678 --> 00:37:18,078 Speaker 3: I mean, I think there's indigenous components to every body 805 00:37:18,158 --> 00:37:20,798 Speaker 3: movement regards to hitting a golf ball, throwing a baseball, 806 00:37:21,278 --> 00:37:24,358 Speaker 3: hitting a baseball. What I often talked about as a 807 00:37:24,438 --> 00:37:27,318 Speaker 3: hitter when as a hitting coach, I wanted all my 808 00:37:27,398 --> 00:37:30,278 Speaker 3: hitters to look the same at the point of contact. Okay, 809 00:37:30,278 --> 00:37:32,558 Speaker 3: how they got there didn't matter to me, but they 810 00:37:32,598 --> 00:37:35,478 Speaker 3: had to look pretty much the same at the point 811 00:37:35,478 --> 00:37:39,838 Speaker 3: of contact. And I always classify that, categorize that with 812 00:37:40,038 --> 00:37:43,038 Speaker 3: a and above average velocity fastball. You know, a lot 813 00:37:43,078 --> 00:37:45,518 Speaker 3: of guys can get there against below average velocity, but 814 00:37:45,558 --> 00:37:49,358 Speaker 3: I wanted guys to get there against plus velocity. And 815 00:37:49,398 --> 00:37:52,398 Speaker 3: if I took a snapshot, regardless if they were Julio Franco, 816 00:37:52,998 --> 00:37:57,158 Speaker 3: Paul Malatar, Carl Yastremski, all these different dudes that look 817 00:37:57,238 --> 00:38:00,998 Speaker 3: different when they're in the batter's box. George Henrick, the 818 00:38:01,118 --> 00:38:03,518 Speaker 3: close stance they all look pretty much the same at 819 00:38:03,558 --> 00:38:07,558 Speaker 3: the point contact against plus velocity, So how do you 820 00:38:07,558 --> 00:38:09,998 Speaker 3: describe your mechanics For me? As a hitting coach, I 821 00:38:09,998 --> 00:38:13,678 Speaker 3: thought it was my job to look at somebody and 822 00:38:14,078 --> 00:38:16,998 Speaker 3: if to chase him as little as possible. The way 823 00:38:17,038 --> 00:38:19,438 Speaker 3: their body works is the way their body works. From there, 824 00:38:19,558 --> 00:38:22,558 Speaker 3: I wanted to try to help them understand how to 825 00:38:22,638 --> 00:38:27,358 Speaker 3: get to that point of contact on time against plus velocity, 826 00:38:27,718 --> 00:38:30,238 Speaker 3: utilizing how their bodies move for the last ten years. 827 00:38:30,558 --> 00:38:33,838 Speaker 3: So when I hear about mechanics, I get confused sometimes 828 00:38:33,878 --> 00:38:36,998 Speaker 3: because does that mean you retool the way a guy 829 00:38:37,078 --> 00:38:40,558 Speaker 3: throws to your sensibilities of how it's supposed to look, 830 00:38:40,878 --> 00:38:42,678 Speaker 3: or do you take the way he has done it 831 00:38:42,678 --> 00:38:47,478 Speaker 3: for years and incorporate thoughts into this movement that dan 832 00:38:47,558 --> 00:38:50,358 Speaker 3: permits him to throw more on time, be in that 833 00:38:50,398 --> 00:38:52,558 Speaker 3: position that I want everybody to look like at the 834 00:38:52,598 --> 00:38:56,038 Speaker 3: point of release by a couple little tweaks here and there. 835 00:38:56,518 --> 00:38:58,678 Speaker 3: So that's how I did my hitters. That was the 836 00:38:59,198 --> 00:39:03,158 Speaker 3: That's how I work with all my hitters. Rarely example, 837 00:39:03,238 --> 00:39:06,198 Speaker 3: Jimmy Edmonds just texted me yesterday day before I'm riding 838 00:39:06,198 --> 00:39:08,878 Speaker 3: a bike. He sent me videos of his kid as 839 00:39:08,878 --> 00:39:10,438 Speaker 3: a hitter, and it was something he wanted to break 840 00:39:10,438 --> 00:39:11,718 Speaker 3: down with his kid, and he wanted to know. 841 00:39:11,678 --> 00:39:12,198 Speaker 5: What I thought. 842 00:39:12,678 --> 00:39:14,558 Speaker 3: So I went all the way back to Jim Edmonds 843 00:39:15,038 --> 00:39:16,678 Speaker 3: talking to him about what we talked about when he 844 00:39:16,718 --> 00:39:19,038 Speaker 3: was in Vancouver. I don't even know what year it was, 845 00:39:19,118 --> 00:39:23,678 Speaker 3: but it's take Jim. Jimmy Edmonds's body was slightly different 846 00:39:23,678 --> 00:39:25,278 Speaker 3: than his son's body the way they set up, but 847 00:39:25,278 --> 00:39:28,878 Speaker 3: there's a lot of similarities, man. So my advice is 848 00:39:28,918 --> 00:39:31,678 Speaker 3: to not necessarily change a lot of that. You find 849 00:39:31,678 --> 00:39:34,998 Speaker 3: the one key element, the one key element that unlocks 850 00:39:34,998 --> 00:39:37,518 Speaker 3: and makes the other four or five things you don't 851 00:39:37,558 --> 00:39:42,438 Speaker 3: like work properly. Next in the unison. So long answer, 852 00:39:42,518 --> 00:39:44,638 Speaker 3: but that's where I get hung up when I hear 853 00:39:44,678 --> 00:39:47,718 Speaker 3: about mechanics. What does it mean? Are you changing the 854 00:39:47,758 --> 00:39:52,038 Speaker 3: way an armstroke works to satisfy your sensibilities with this 855 00:39:52,238 --> 00:39:54,598 Speaker 3: or are you taking the way a young man's body 856 00:39:54,598 --> 00:39:57,838 Speaker 3: in arm works and then attempt to clean it up 857 00:39:57,998 --> 00:39:59,838 Speaker 3: in a sense to the point where he gets the 858 00:39:59,878 --> 00:40:02,318 Speaker 3: most out of it. And then I think that's the 859 00:40:02,318 --> 00:40:03,518 Speaker 3: best way to avoid injury. 860 00:40:04,078 --> 00:40:07,238 Speaker 1: Well said Joe, And I'm going to have one final 861 00:40:07,318 --> 00:40:09,118 Speaker 1: word on the Masters and I want your take on 862 00:40:09,158 --> 00:40:11,158 Speaker 1: it because I'm watching the Masters and at one point 863 00:40:11,158 --> 00:40:12,878 Speaker 1: I know there's a four way tie for the lead, 864 00:40:13,598 --> 00:40:17,358 Speaker 1: and watching it, I just knew Scotty Scheffler is going 865 00:40:17,398 --> 00:40:17,638 Speaker 1: to win. 866 00:40:17,798 --> 00:40:19,038 Speaker 2: He's the best player in the world. 867 00:40:19,118 --> 00:40:22,598 Speaker 1: And what I see from Scotty Scheffler, he controls the 868 00:40:22,598 --> 00:40:26,158 Speaker 1: golf ball so much better than everybody else. You know, 869 00:40:26,278 --> 00:40:29,998 Speaker 1: he's never if he's offline, he's offline by a little. 870 00:40:30,078 --> 00:40:33,438 Speaker 1: He doesn't miss spots by a lot, so he doesn't 871 00:40:33,518 --> 00:40:35,118 Speaker 1: have the blow up holes that we saw in the 872 00:40:35,158 --> 00:40:38,718 Speaker 1: back nine and Augusta from the people chasing him. So 873 00:40:39,118 --> 00:40:41,438 Speaker 1: I think he's in a tree right now, Joe. I 874 00:40:41,478 --> 00:40:43,358 Speaker 1: think he can continue to dominate the game for a 875 00:40:43,358 --> 00:40:45,838 Speaker 1: long time. I love his approach. You know, he's this 876 00:40:45,918 --> 00:40:49,558 Speaker 1: god fearing, humble guy from Texas, actually boarded. 877 00:40:49,358 --> 00:40:51,558 Speaker 2: New Jersey, moved there as a kid, got to throw. 878 00:40:51,438 --> 00:40:56,358 Speaker 1: Jersey in there, but as consistent a person, and he 879 00:40:56,398 --> 00:40:57,478 Speaker 1: brings it to the golf course. 880 00:40:57,958 --> 00:41:01,198 Speaker 3: I would love to see videos of him speaking Toto 881 00:41:01,238 --> 00:41:04,758 Speaker 3: Golf Club when he was ten, and that a lot 882 00:41:04,758 --> 00:41:07,438 Speaker 3: of that stuff that he does now was apparent when 883 00:41:07,438 --> 00:41:11,438 Speaker 3: he was ten. If some brilliant instructor got up, came 884 00:41:11,478 --> 00:41:13,278 Speaker 3: up to him and said, Scott, he's Scotty, what are 885 00:41:13,318 --> 00:41:15,638 Speaker 3: you doing. You can't slide your feet around like that. 886 00:41:16,238 --> 00:41:17,958 Speaker 3: You can't. We got to get your feet on the ground. 887 00:41:17,958 --> 00:41:20,718 Speaker 3: We got to get it better, base, different kind of it, 888 00:41:20,838 --> 00:41:23,958 Speaker 3: whatever turn, you just can't do that. Same if somebody 889 00:41:23,998 --> 00:41:26,318 Speaker 3: had gotten up to stand musual and said Stanley Stashu 890 00:41:26,678 --> 00:41:28,998 Speaker 3: that Pikaboo stands, it's not gonna work. We got to 891 00:41:29,038 --> 00:41:31,798 Speaker 3: straighten you out. So that's to me. I learned that 892 00:41:31,838 --> 00:41:34,478 Speaker 3: from bab Aloo Bob Clear as a young hitting instructor. 893 00:41:34,878 --> 00:41:37,238 Speaker 3: He really set me straight on that. And even when 894 00:41:37,238 --> 00:41:39,318 Speaker 3: you talk about Troy Percival, the first time we threw 895 00:41:39,358 --> 00:41:42,198 Speaker 3: him in the bullpen at Uatry Park, Percy went out 896 00:41:42,238 --> 00:41:44,358 Speaker 3: there and he get out in the mound. He's ready 897 00:41:44,398 --> 00:41:47,998 Speaker 3: to throw, and Bobb Alou said, says, nobody say anything 898 00:41:47,998 --> 00:41:50,278 Speaker 3: to him. Percy wind up and throw the ball to 899 00:41:50,318 --> 00:41:52,878 Speaker 3: home plate. And that's how his body worked, and that's 900 00:41:52,918 --> 00:41:55,958 Speaker 3: how he became successful, even though everybody said he was 901 00:41:55,958 --> 00:41:58,078 Speaker 3: going to blow out a long time before it ever happened. 902 00:41:58,398 --> 00:42:00,678 Speaker 3: So sometimes we get too smart, man, that's part of 903 00:42:00,718 --> 00:42:01,238 Speaker 3: my problem. 904 00:42:01,718 --> 00:42:03,758 Speaker 1: Yeah, you bring me back to one of my favorite lines. 905 00:42:03,998 --> 00:42:06,758 Speaker 1: I believe more players I'm talking about amateurs mostly have 906 00:42:06,838 --> 00:42:11,958 Speaker 1: been ruined by over coaching than under coaching. That being said, 907 00:42:13,038 --> 00:42:15,278 Speaker 1: I want to line from you, Joe, bring us to 908 00:42:15,318 --> 00:42:18,878 Speaker 1: the close here with a game that started with Greg 909 00:42:18,918 --> 00:42:21,118 Speaker 1: MANNIX is going to end with Joe Madden closing for 910 00:42:21,198 --> 00:42:21,478 Speaker 1: us here? 911 00:42:21,518 --> 00:42:24,278 Speaker 3: What do you got Ooh that sucks? It'll screw it 912 00:42:24,358 --> 00:42:27,358 Speaker 3: up on him. I got to read this slowly because 913 00:42:27,398 --> 00:42:29,518 Speaker 3: this is like something I read, and I switched it 914 00:42:29,558 --> 00:42:32,518 Speaker 3: around a little bit as it pertains to what happened 915 00:42:32,518 --> 00:42:36,718 Speaker 3: today or talking to Greg. Creativity is bound up in 916 00:42:36,758 --> 00:42:42,878 Speaker 3: our ability to find new ways around old problems. Creativities 917 00:42:42,878 --> 00:42:45,798 Speaker 3: bound up in our ability to find new ways around 918 00:42:45,838 --> 00:42:49,718 Speaker 3: old problems. I think creativity should be bound up in 919 00:42:49,718 --> 00:42:53,798 Speaker 3: our ability to find old ways around new problems. That's 920 00:42:53,838 --> 00:42:56,758 Speaker 3: not what happens. We're always looking for new ways around problems. 921 00:42:56,958 --> 00:43:00,238 Speaker 3: We're maybe tried and true is okay? Why do we? 922 00:43:00,318 --> 00:43:02,078 Speaker 3: And again that's where I have an issue with the 923 00:43:02,198 --> 00:43:06,718 Speaker 3: term progressiveness. We could have like progress moving negative terms 924 00:43:06,718 --> 00:43:11,118 Speaker 3: too that nobody it's called regression. And so I took 925 00:43:11,198 --> 00:43:13,438 Speaker 3: that today and I want to switch it around from 926 00:43:13,638 --> 00:43:16,198 Speaker 3: new ways around old problems to old ways around new 927 00:43:16,198 --> 00:43:18,998 Speaker 3: problems and see if we could find some substance in that. 928 00:43:19,318 --> 00:43:22,998 Speaker 3: And again it's about balance and morphing things together however 929 00:43:23,038 --> 00:43:24,918 Speaker 3: you want to describe it. But I thought that was 930 00:43:24,998 --> 00:43:27,518 Speaker 3: really cool when I read that, and I thought it 931 00:43:27,638 --> 00:43:30,518 Speaker 3: need to be switched. I mean, you talk about Greg 932 00:43:30,598 --> 00:43:33,598 Speaker 3: and pitching in general and what's going on. I think 933 00:43:35,078 --> 00:43:37,478 Speaker 3: old ways could really help out with these new problems. 934 00:43:38,238 --> 00:43:40,518 Speaker 1: That really fits the theme of this show for today, 935 00:43:40,558 --> 00:43:43,438 Speaker 1: our episode with Greg Mannox. I mean, you know, no 936 00:43:43,478 --> 00:43:46,758 Speaker 1: matter how much you've been raised on analytics and track 937 00:43:46,878 --> 00:43:50,318 Speaker 1: Man and drive Line, why wouldn't you listen to Greg Mannox, 938 00:43:50,918 --> 00:43:53,358 Speaker 1: I mean the wisdom he has on the art of 939 00:43:53,398 --> 00:43:54,718 Speaker 1: pitching and staying healthy. 940 00:43:55,398 --> 00:43:57,198 Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to call that old school. 941 00:43:57,638 --> 00:43:59,398 Speaker 1: I just know that that's someone who has a lot 942 00:43:59,438 --> 00:44:02,358 Speaker 1: of wisdom that I can learn from. 943 00:44:02,518 --> 00:44:05,238 Speaker 3: Can I agree with you more? Listen? And analytics wonderful? 944 00:44:06,158 --> 00:44:07,718 Speaker 3: And I finally think, I don't know if I told 945 00:44:07,758 --> 00:44:09,558 Speaker 3: you this, and I tryally kind of figured out a 946 00:44:09,598 --> 00:44:12,158 Speaker 3: bit of where I was coming from with all this. Yes, 947 00:44:12,438 --> 00:44:15,718 Speaker 3: we always wanted information and that as an old school manager, 948 00:44:15,718 --> 00:44:18,118 Speaker 3: as a new school manager, show me where my defense 949 00:44:18,158 --> 00:44:19,678 Speaker 3: is supposed to play. How am I supposed to pitch 950 00:44:19,718 --> 00:44:22,678 Speaker 3: the Pomberducci? What is this pitcher possibly going to throw? Yes, 951 00:44:22,718 --> 00:44:25,518 Speaker 3: I want all the information. We've always done that. People 952 00:44:25,558 --> 00:44:27,638 Speaker 3: act as though it's new. It's just being able to 953 00:44:27,718 --> 00:44:31,238 Speaker 3: be categorized differently. In every pitch is being tracked regarding 954 00:44:31,358 --> 00:44:34,118 Speaker 3: defense or how to pitch, et cetera. So that's the difference. 955 00:44:34,118 --> 00:44:36,998 Speaker 3: It's the glad of information which is great, and also 956 00:44:37,038 --> 00:44:40,238 Speaker 3: the exactness of it, which before was up to us 957 00:44:40,598 --> 00:44:44,998 Speaker 3: from advance scouts pitch him highway up, up and in, 958 00:44:45,158 --> 00:44:49,958 Speaker 3: down and away. Almost everybody had the same thought process. 959 00:44:49,958 --> 00:44:53,078 Speaker 3: And when it came to pitchers pitching the other team, 960 00:44:53,278 --> 00:44:56,558 Speaker 3: I thought about this earlier charting like Maddocks with charged 961 00:44:56,558 --> 00:44:59,358 Speaker 3: for Smoltz the day before he pitched nobody charts anymore, 962 00:44:59,358 --> 00:45:01,518 Speaker 3: which I really think would be an interesting way to 963 00:45:01,598 --> 00:45:05,198 Speaker 3: get these guys back involved and understanding exactly what's going on. 964 00:45:05,278 --> 00:45:07,998 Speaker 3: So there is that, and you want that, And when 965 00:45:07,998 --> 00:45:10,038 Speaker 3: I'm an acquired Tom producer, I want to know everything 966 00:45:10,078 --> 00:45:13,598 Speaker 3: about him. But in the moment that is big, large 967 00:45:13,598 --> 00:45:16,438 Speaker 3: sample size, in the small sample sized moment in this 968 00:45:16,998 --> 00:45:21,958 Speaker 3: at seven point fifty two on a Thursday night in June, 969 00:45:22,238 --> 00:45:24,678 Speaker 3: I need to react to the situation, and that's her 970 00:45:24,718 --> 00:45:27,998 Speaker 3: experience and wisdom, et cetera comes into play. So that 971 00:45:28,238 --> 00:45:30,838 Speaker 3: is the small sample size that is called the moment, 972 00:45:31,318 --> 00:45:34,398 Speaker 3: and the moment changes constantly. Count you look at the 973 00:45:34,398 --> 00:45:37,798 Speaker 3: scoreward count number of outs, whereas the wind blowing, who's hot, 974 00:45:37,798 --> 00:45:40,358 Speaker 3: who's not? All this stuff. So I don't know that 975 00:45:40,398 --> 00:45:45,318 Speaker 3: we've totally described. And people understand where the data and 976 00:45:45,358 --> 00:45:47,878 Speaker 3: information is important, and we all believe in it. But 977 00:45:47,918 --> 00:45:51,238 Speaker 3: what's not always believed in is the wisdom and the intelligence, 978 00:45:51,318 --> 00:45:54,238 Speaker 3: the feel for whomever is running this thing in the 979 00:45:54,318 --> 00:45:57,918 Speaker 3: dugout and how important that actually is. So that came 980 00:45:57,958 --> 00:46:00,478 Speaker 3: to me more recently, and I think it's pretty accurate. 981 00:46:00,638 --> 00:46:04,838 Speaker 1: Our thanks to the always fascinating, always interesting Greg Maddox 982 00:46:04,878 --> 00:46:07,838 Speaker 1: for joining us on this edition of the Book of Joe, 983 00:46:07,918 --> 00:46:10,758 Speaker 1: and thanks to you Joe for, as you always do, 984 00:46:10,998 --> 00:46:11,718 Speaker 1: taking us home. 985 00:46:11,958 --> 00:46:20,478 Speaker 3: Thanks Tommy, great to see you, buddy. 986 00:46:23,158 --> 00:46:26,358 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. 987 00:46:26,598 --> 00:46:31,558 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 988 00:46:31,678 --> 00:46:33,478 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.