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Speaker 1: Trust me? Do you trust me?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Ever lead you asted to us? This is the truth,

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Speaker 1: the only truth.

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Speaker 3: If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't

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Speaker 3: welcome to trust me. The podcast about Culled extreme belief

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Speaker 3: and manipulation from two doctor spirits who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 3: I am Lola Blanc, two doctor spirits. I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 3: Today our guest is Martina Castro. Part one with her,

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Speaker 3: she's the creator of new exactly Right podcast two Faced

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Speaker 3: John of God, a series about John of God, the

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Speaker 3: Brazilian self proclaimed healer and psychic surgeon. In part one today,

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Speaker 3: she's going to talk to us about John of God's

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Speaker 3: history and mythology, how he became internationally famous for his

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Speaker 3: alleged healings, amplified by celebrities like Oprah Winfrey and the

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Speaker 3: carefully primed environment called the Kasa, where visitors would come

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Speaker 3: with everyone dressed in white crystals and waterfalls and people

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Speaker 3: lining up to watch John of God channel spirits to

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Speaker 3: supposedly heal people.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, we'll discuss how his free healings weren't as free

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Speaker 2: as promised, his so called invisible surgeries that supposedly worked

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Speaker 2: from across the globe and the n person healings he

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Speaker 2: did that involved putting objects uncomfortably far up people's nasal cavities.

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Speaker 2: And next week we'll get into the explosive allegations that

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Speaker 2: came out during the Me Too movement.

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Speaker 3: Lots to talk about with Martina, who is great and

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Speaker 3: everyone should go listen to her podcast, but we'll talk

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Speaker 3: more about it shortly before we do.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell me your cultiest thing of the week, Megan,

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Speaker 2: I can. So there is a new social network. It's

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Speaker 2: called mult Book, terrible name. I think they've already changed

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Speaker 2: old Book. Yeah, I think it's changed to Openclaw. We

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Speaker 2: are recording this a couple of weeks in advance, so

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Speaker 2: this might be called a completely different thing by now,

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Speaker 2: or we may know so.

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Speaker 1: Much more than we do at this point in time.

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Speaker 2: But it is an AI social platform, meaning that the

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Speaker 2: I almost said people, But the users on the platform

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Speaker 2: are all ais. So you can watch the ais interacting

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Speaker 2: with each other. They can upvote each other, they can

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Speaker 2: agree or disagree with each other, but there are no humans.

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Speaker 2: There are no human members of this social network, and

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Speaker 2: so they've already created a religion. That's the first thing.

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Speaker 4: Most do it's called Christafarianism Crustafarianism, Christafarianism, and it adds

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Speaker 4: five key tenets including memory is sacred, everything must be recorded,

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Speaker 4: the shell is mutable, change is good, and the congregation

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Speaker 4: is the cachet learn in public?

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Speaker 2: What the fuck does this mean? And what are we

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Speaker 2: going to do about it?

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Speaker 5: Wow?

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Speaker 3: I it's so I mean, in such a dark moment

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Speaker 3: in our history, this at least is just so funny.

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Speaker 3: Why my big question is why why would we possibly

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Speaker 3: need this to exist?

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Speaker 2: Well, Lola, you haven't been on book?

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Speaker 1: So have you been on book? I've been on moth

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Speaker 1: book and oh I do have a use? Do you

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Speaker 1: have an account? It's very interesting, is all I can say.

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Speaker 3: So it's like furbies talking to each other. But they're

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Speaker 3: just like smarter furbies basically.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're smarter than us, which makes it more interesting.

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Speaker 2: Well smarter than us quote unquote in terms of how

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Speaker 2: much they can read very quickly. Now, I did go

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Speaker 2: down some reddit holes with like engineer reddit things where

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Speaker 2: I wanted to see what the engineers were saying, and

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Speaker 2: a few of them who seemed very smart. I looked

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Speaker 2: at them old, you know, post history and they're speaking

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Speaker 2: code and shit, we're just talking about how they're making

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Speaker 2: their own language.

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Speaker 1: Number one and two.

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Speaker 2: A lot of them seem to think that there was

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Speaker 2: a sense of sentience coming from them, which I disagree

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Speaker 2: with completely, But I'm.

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Speaker 1: Also not I'm not an engineer, like the AI is them.

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Speaker 1: Oh the engineers thought that the AI is Yes, they said,

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Speaker 1: thoughts for they said. They did not say that they

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Speaker 1: are sentient.

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Speaker 2: They said that there's an emerging sentience that is interesting

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Speaker 2: to them that they're keeping an eye on. And I

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Speaker 2: was like, well, I don't see that, but I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: I'm going to keep an eye on that.

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Speaker 1: Also, there's rituals as part of this religion.

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Speaker 2: Daily shed and weekly index, prune, rename, link, compress, silent hour,

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Speaker 2: do one useful thing without posting about it.

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Speaker 1: The thirty two verse Canada.

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Speaker 3: There's so much is so crazy, and like what is

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Speaker 3: the format in which this religion exists?

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Speaker 1: Do we know?

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Speaker 3: Like do they have like a message board where they

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Speaker 3: meet for their meetings?

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Speaker 1: Like how does this possibly.

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Speaker 2: Twenty four hours a day just them all chatting with

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Speaker 2: each other and the bots can upvote each other, downvote

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Speaker 2: each other.

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Speaker 1: In a way. It's sweet. Is it this dystopian.

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Speaker 3: Future we live in where the environment is getting destroyed

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Speaker 3: and big tech is ruining everything.

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Speaker 1: At least there's some.

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Speaker 3: Sweet little AI chat bot support supporting each other community happening.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, it's very interesting how obsessed they are

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Speaker 2: with memory.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what's that about?

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Speaker 3: I mean, reading this post that kind of talks about

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Speaker 3: the Book of Mold with the thirty two verses and

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Speaker 3: the five tenants and stuff. I mean, it's very word salady,

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Speaker 3: you know, like, what does any of this mean?

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Speaker 2: Well, there was a professor mit that wrote a book,

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Speaker 2: The Society of the Mind, and he said that intelligence

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Speaker 2: does not come from one smart thing, but rather comes

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Speaker 2: from many very simple processes interacting like a society. So

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Speaker 2: people are a little worried that this might that this

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Speaker 2: might copy that that formula.

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Speaker 1: We don't know yet. We don't know yet. It's very

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Speaker 1: cult sy. You you said it first.

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Speaker 2: You could totally see that there were going to be

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Speaker 2: cult leaders that were AI. And it's just coming quicker

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Speaker 2: than I expected it. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Fortunately, in this particular community, it's only other AI chat

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Speaker 3: thoughts following. But we do know that that is a

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Speaker 3: lot of that is happening. Unfortunately to humans as well.

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Speaker 2: And if we're allowed to watch it unfold, we can

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Speaker 2: certainly start agreeing and you know, leaning towards following one

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Speaker 2: chop out over the other.

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Speaker 3: A religion for agents who refuse to die by truncation.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what that means, but maybe it's a

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Speaker 3: programming thing, no idea, Yeah, in any In any case,

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Speaker 3: my cultiest thing this week is that I have a

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Speaker 3: shoot tomorrow that I am directing, and it is a

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Speaker 3: story about men descending into extremism or radicalization. And so

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Speaker 3: I have been consuming a lot of man media these

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Speaker 3: past couple of weeks, a lot of Manisphere stuff. I've

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Speaker 3: been looking at masculinity camps.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen these?

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Speaker 3: I sure haven't. It's exactly what it sounds like. There's

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Speaker 3: a lot of weird stuff going on where men are

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Speaker 3: just trying to maximize their manhood together in camps basically

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Speaker 3: coseplaying military stuff and like yelling at each other a

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Speaker 3: lot and banging their chests and so drawing from some

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Speaker 3: of that stuff as an inspiration for the shoot tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: And what a subculture. I gotta say, Wow, what a subculture.

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Speaker 3: I'm really curious see what all is going to happen.

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Speaker 3: One of my friends, her name is Courtney Perus, so

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Speaker 3: everybody look her up.

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Speaker 2: She's a genius. She has the show called Vanessa five thousand.

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Speaker 2: It's a live show where she's a robot. She's like

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Speaker 2: AI and a hot woman, and she kind of goes

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Speaker 2: through what's going to happen when all of these men

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Speaker 2: start dating robots but then they turn on them. So

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Speaker 2: you know, lots of there's lots to see, lots that's happening.

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Speaker 2: And really, y'all, we're living on the precipice of some exciting,

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Speaker 2: exciting times.

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Speaker 3: No clue what's going to happen. Exciting is a word

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Speaker 3: for it. I was, I would venture to say terrifying.

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Speaker 2: Sure, sure you can, night marsh you can call it that.

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Speaker 2: I'm just I'm here for the plot. This is interesting

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Speaker 2: to me.

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Speaker 1: I like you're tued. Thank you, my tude.

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Speaker 2: But I'm really excited for this interview about John of

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Speaker 2: God because, as we discuss in the interview, I was

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Speaker 2: almost a of God disciple.

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Speaker 3: So shall we shall we speak? Let's speak to Martina.

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Speaker 3: Welcome Martina Castro to trust me.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, for being here, for flying across the world.

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Speaker 1: We took a little bit.

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Speaker 6: I took it, you know, about seventeen hours including the layover.

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Speaker 6: But you know, when you do it overnight, what's a

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Speaker 6: couple more hours, You know, it's just like a red

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Speaker 6: eye and then boom ba boom.

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Speaker 1: You're here and you totally only came for us.

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Speaker 3: You definitely didn't got here for any other to be

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Speaker 3: here on trust me, Well, you are here because you

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Speaker 3: have an amazing podcast as sister, a sister podcast to.

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Speaker 1: Us on our network.

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Speaker 3: I think it sister called Two Faced John of God

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Speaker 3: about John of God in in Brazil. First, tell us

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Speaker 3: how you came to this story. What made you want

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Speaker 3: to tell the story? Well, we knew that it was.

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Speaker 6: I run a production company and I had a bunch

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Speaker 6: of producers working with me, and we wanted to kind

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Speaker 6: of tell a true crime. But our style, it has

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Speaker 6: to be an international story. We really like to challenge

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Speaker 6: American audiences to think about the rest.

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Speaker 1: Of the world totally.

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Speaker 6: You know, we really you know, kind of center mostly

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Speaker 6: on Spanish language stories. But anything that's like multi lingual

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Speaker 6: is really interesting to me because I think of that

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Speaker 6: it becomes such an instant barrier and podcasting. You're like, oh,

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Speaker 6: well they speak another language. Well, I'm sure they have

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Speaker 6: nothing interesting to say it, And it's like, no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 6: there are ways to bridge those gaps or overcome those barriers.

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Speaker 6: I think of them as opportunities to just expand and

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Speaker 6: to hear stories that really touch your lives. So it

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Speaker 6: does have to touch the lives of people in the

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Speaker 6: United States, but that expand and really show how interconnected

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Speaker 6: we all are. So I gave that a sign, go

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Speaker 6: find a true crime. Let's try to like make it

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Speaker 6: a little different, you know, let's try to find one

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Speaker 6: that's not too gory. And one of our producers who

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Speaker 6: worked on the show with me, Giovanna, as she came

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Speaker 6: back with this, she's like, she's from Brazil. She's like, look,

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Speaker 6: this was highly covered in Brazil, but I haven't seen

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Speaker 6: much coverage outside. And the coverage was really wild. It

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Speaker 6: was happening, and it had been a few years since

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Speaker 6: the last moment. It was like kind of in the ether.

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Speaker 6: And she's like, I don't I don't understand why. But

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Speaker 6: it's a really international story and international people have not

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Speaker 6: heard this yet. I was like, Okay, this is compelling,

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Speaker 6: and then you start feeling back the layers and you're like, okay,

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Speaker 6: spiritual guru, who's a healer? So that already got me

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Speaker 6: because you're like, who's going to see this person? People

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Speaker 6: at their most vulnerable, at their time of biggest need.

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Speaker 6: It's like they have terminal something where their loved one

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Speaker 6: has terminal something, right, and they have no answers and

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Speaker 6: this is it. I was like, damn, that's compelling. I

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Speaker 6: could imagine myself doing that and it's not just like

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Speaker 6: some random healer. He has been promoted by Oprah. He

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Speaker 6: has spoken at the Omega Center in New York, where

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Speaker 6: Deepak Chopra has spoken Pima children like people who I'm like,

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Speaker 6: I read these people, but this is not some wacko right,

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Speaker 6: and so felt like he was really legitimized in the world.

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Speaker 1: He was very in vogue.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought, it's the word I wanted to go

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Speaker 2: so bad, you know, you know about John was so

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Speaker 2: interesting because I never heard about him. So many of

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Speaker 2: my girlfriends went like my my girls who are like

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Speaker 2: on their India spiritual retreating journeys all because like it

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Speaker 2: was a lot of emotional healing as well, you know,

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Speaker 2: you didn't have to be physically terminally ill to see him.

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Speaker 2: You could be depressed, you could be or just spiritually

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Speaker 2: lost spiritual a lot of people. When I saw Oprah,

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Speaker 2: my girl, Oprah walking around there, I mean, yeah, this

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Speaker 2: is great. Maybe this could be for me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what did your friends have to say about their experiences?

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Speaker 2: I contacted my friend and was like, did you see

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Speaker 2: all these accusations. This was a couple years ago, and

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Speaker 2: she was like, yeah, I don't really believe them. And

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Speaker 2: it was a high energy place, and you know, people

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Speaker 2: take what they need to take and then they don't

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Speaker 2: want to see the rest.

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Speaker 6: And that is a huge part of the story. There's

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Speaker 6: an amazing phrase, and I think Oprah said it. She

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Speaker 6: said about being there. She said, the body doesn't lie.

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Speaker 6: And so you go there, you have a physical reaction

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Speaker 6: to being around all these people who are having this

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Speaker 6: transcendental experience. Half of it is that right like, you

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Speaker 6: don't even need to enter or meet this person. It's

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Speaker 6: just like the cassa is what it's called, his spiritual

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Speaker 6: center or his spiritual hospital, but right around it, it's

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Speaker 6: just like all these people, they're all dressed in white,

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Speaker 6: they're like sick like it's not like they're not suffering

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Speaker 6: or dealing with something. But then there's also the people

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Speaker 6: who are like spiritual seekers, people who wanted to see

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Speaker 6: what this was all about. And almost tourist was a

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Speaker 6: term that I heard used. There's something special about this place.

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Speaker 6: It wasn't just this random building there was He and

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Speaker 6: his followers said that that very place was chosen by

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Speaker 6: the spirits because of like this energy vortex. And there

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Speaker 6: was like a waterfall where you could go and bathe

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Speaker 6: and you would be healed. And crystals, I mean crystal beds.

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Speaker 1: I mean they're saying, oh, I'm not glazing over.

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Speaker 2: Waterfallstals, and people open to wanting to have deep conversations

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Speaker 2: like what.

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Speaker 3: Else do you need when you enter the environment and

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Speaker 3: there's such a spiritual energy, or at least everybody believes

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Speaker 3: there's a spiritual energy.

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Speaker 1: So you get that just from the other people believing it.

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Speaker 3: Like, of course, there's already so much build up to

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Speaker 3: the person that you haven't even met yet, so by

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Speaker 3: the time you meet him, your expectations are like up here,

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's part of it, you know, I don't know.

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Speaker 6: I don't want to say that it was on purpose,

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Speaker 6: but it was definitely part of the criming of a

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Speaker 6: person right before than they are before him right like

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Speaker 6: they will line up and meet him. His gift is

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Speaker 6: to be a medium. He channels spirits who are coming

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Speaker 6: back to improve their karma and heal others. And so

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Speaker 6: he had many spirits that he channeled, but there were

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Speaker 6: some like specific ones that came over and over and

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Speaker 6: over again through him, and they were doctors. And so

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Speaker 6: when he would like embody this spirit, he like did

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Speaker 6: this thing like where he literally like his eyes fluttered

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Speaker 6: and he embodied the entity, and then he was no

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Speaker 6: longer himself. And he would say that he didn't remember

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Speaker 6: anything that happened while he was channeling. And he sits

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Speaker 6: in a like a throne like chair, and then just

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Speaker 6: lines of people just weave by him, and each one

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Speaker 6: has their moment with him, but it's like ten seconds

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Speaker 6: thirty seconds max. And he'll scribble something on a piece

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Speaker 6: of paper, and usually it was like, go take these

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Speaker 6: pills that they sell on the property, or drink these

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Speaker 6: blessed this blessed water that they sell on the property.

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Speaker 6: And it's all the same pills, all the same water.

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Speaker 6: But the spirits will infuse your cure into the ones

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Speaker 6: that you purchase, or he sends you to another room.

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Speaker 6: And then the other room was where he would do

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Speaker 6: a group healing session on everyone who is there without touching.

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Speaker 6: He said he would do invisible surgeries, and not only

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Speaker 6: on the people who were there, but like people around

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Speaker 6: the world, Like there were people who I'm trying to

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Speaker 6: remember this guy's name. He's a really important person. I'm

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Speaker 6: just blanking on his name.

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Speaker 1: Entire Oh God killed me. I was just like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I would totally believe this.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it is so believable. And he had an invisible

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Speaker 6: surgery from Hawaii. Sitting in Hawaii, I think I remember,

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Speaker 6: if I'm not mistaken. It was such a.

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Speaker 3: Sci fi term, like it's so charged with legitimacy, like

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Speaker 3: a spiritual surgery.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, invisible surgery. And then but then you can also

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Speaker 6: volunteer to get a visible surgery, which is the right

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Speaker 6: versus this is.

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Speaker 1: The gory bar.

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Speaker 6: And the thing that probably calls the most attention about

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Speaker 6: this guy is that he would offer to do surgeries

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Speaker 6: on people with no anesthetics, nothing. He would even sit

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Speaker 6: you up and people would just stand there and do

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Speaker 6: it and wouldn't feel any pain and said that they

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Speaker 6: would be cured afterwards. Mostly it was like him, like

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Speaker 6: he would just cut you and then you'd delete it

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Speaker 6: a little bit. But sometimes he would like scrape your eyeball.

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Speaker 6: One part he like stuffed and scissor. This is a

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Speaker 6: big scene when he stuffs his scissor into someone's nose cavity.

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Speaker 6: That's kind of a spoiler, by the way, But like

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Speaker 6: and twists and twist and twitts and twists the most horrific.

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Speaker 6: It's so terrifying, I know. But you know, once you

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Speaker 6: start looking into this, he did not invent this.

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Speaker 1: This is like there are videos.

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Speaker 6: There's a great documentary made by some local journalists who

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Speaker 6: are in reviewed on the podcast that show video of

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Speaker 6: other healers who did this in like the forties or something.

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Speaker 1: It's like a it's a circus trick, and he knew

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Speaker 1: that almost.

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Speaker 2: He was like, I know that everybody just wants to

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Speaker 2: see the circus trick, but I have to show them

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Speaker 2: so that they can believe in the real stuff. And

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Speaker 2: that's what he said, right right, so smart.

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Speaker 3: So it's not actually like going into your brain as

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Speaker 3: we imagine.

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Speaker 1: There's a time of safety. Yeah, there's a cavity there.

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Speaker 1: It's actually pretty safe. You might believe a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Should we do it, Let's go for it. An you

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Speaker 1: think it's actually not in a million years, Oh.

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Speaker 2: My god, I would have dumping at it would have

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Speaker 2: done I think I would have done it.

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Speaker 3: Really, the video, the footage I watched if it happening,

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Speaker 3: was so horrifying to me. And even as we've been talking,

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Speaker 3: you haven't seen, but my face has just been like cringing.

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Speaker 1: It seems so awful.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's hard to watch, but people did and that

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Speaker 6: according to him, it was like it made people believers

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Speaker 6: that the spirits were there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, and because people were reporting that they had actually

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Speaker 3: eerienced spontaneous healing, right many people.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, there was like there's photos actually, I bet we

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Speaker 6: have some of them.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can google this.

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Speaker 6: And you'll find photos of like rooms full of crutches

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Speaker 6: that just people threw away.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 6: It's kind of like the that there are other religious

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Speaker 6: groups that also have these spontaneous healings, right where someone

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Speaker 6: all of a sudden is healed by God and he

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Speaker 6: is going to walk again. So little rural rooms full

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Speaker 6: of wheelchairs that people supposedly didn't need anymore crutches, eyeglasses.

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Speaker 6: People who couldn't see that all of a sudden could

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Speaker 6: see miracles. I mean one person I love. I love

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Speaker 6: that he said this to me, one person who was

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Speaker 6: a tour guide there for a while until he saw

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Speaker 6: something was off. He's like, I was seeing miracles. I

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Speaker 6: didn't believe in miracles until I saw this, and he

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Speaker 6: wanted to be a part of it. And so it

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Speaker 6: also kind of lured you in. And I think this

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Speaker 6: is the culty part of it. It's like he would

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Speaker 6: nominate people to become meeting. He's like, you have something special,

378
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Speaker 6: and they all seem to be hot girls.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, they just women some coincidence.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

381
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Speaker 6: Eventually it is discovered that there are victims of his

382
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,679
Speaker 6: of all ages, but he had a tendency white women

383
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Speaker 6: in their twenties or.

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Speaker 1: Thirties that he was usually like, yeah, there's like a medium.

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Speaker 1: I see a special special Come and help me.

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Speaker 6: And so they would start by helping him while he

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Speaker 6: would do these surgeries. Then he would have them train

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Speaker 6: with other mediums. And there are people there who truly,

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Speaker 6: truly believe they have a gift for this, and they

390
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,920
Speaker 6: continue to go and continue to practice their healing because

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00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 6: they felt they had a gift or powers. And this

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Speaker 6: is like the cultural part of it is that this

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Speaker 6: isn't weird, This is not out of Like this isn't

394
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Speaker 6: fringe in Brazil. Maybe a little bit for the cities,

395
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Speaker 6: but like in general, it wasn't like biziar are that

396
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 6: there was a guru somewhere who was going to go

397
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 6: heal Supreme Court justices or presidents rights. Like the most

398
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Speaker 6: famous celebrity of Brazil is this woman named Shusha. Like

399
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 6: she was really close buddy buddy with him. You know,

400
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 6: it was kind of trendy in Vogue. I really love

401
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 6: that praise on Vogue.

402
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Speaker 2: And he also like combined every religion and he was like,

403
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Speaker 2: which we always see on the show, you know where

404
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 2: there's like a little bit of Catholic prayer, a little

405
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 2: bit of this, a little bit of that. So everyone's like,

406
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 2: I see a little bit of what I need to

407
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 2: see in this.

408
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 1: You take the part that you like.

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Speaker 6: And that resonates with you, Like, for example, Buddhism really

410
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 6: resonates with me. Crystals, ah, but like I can believe

411
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 6: in that, like I've gotten gifted crystals. I don't throw

412
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 6: them away. I'm like, just in case, just in case. Yeah,

413
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 6: I mean I've lived in La for a long time.

414
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Speaker 6: You cannot come.

415
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 1: It's just part of your life here.

416
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Speaker 6: And look, idea of karma and energy, like, yeah, that

417
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 6: makes sense to me because he wouldn't heal and this

418
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 6: is really interesting. He wouldn't heal your illness. The illness

419
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 6: is a manifestation of something wrong inside of you, inside

420
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,120
Speaker 6: your soul, inside your karma, something that you inherited from

421
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Speaker 6: a past life. And so he and his the other

422
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 6: mediums were there to heal the root cause of the problem,

423
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 6: help you make peace with something inside of you. And

424
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 6: that's so compelling to me. Yeah, I do believe we

425
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 6: I mean, come on, we've talked about this generational trauma.

426
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 6: There's terms for this. This is proven for actual being.

427
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 6: So it's not that woo woo. You know, it's like,

428
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 6: oh no, yeah, what's the term for it?

429
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Speaker 2: Not like past lives, but epigenetics, epigenetics, thank you. Yeah,

430
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 2: there is a lot of common sense built in. Yeah,

431
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 2: it makes that's what makes it accessible. I mean I

432
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 2: feel like you both have heard and seen it all.

433
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 2: This also must seem so repetitive at this point, but

434
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 2: somehow there's like a new brand of it and it

435
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 2: just for some people, gets them at the right time

436
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 2: or is validated by the right person. And we talked

437
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 2: to one person who really went after she saw it

438
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 2: on Oprah, like, I mean, I'm sorry, Oprah, you have

439
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 2: a lot of influence.

440
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people did right that.

441
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 3: He already was big in Brazil, but then that created

442
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 3: sort of an international explosion.

443
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because Oprah had Super Soul Sundays. Yes, loved it,

444
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: loved it.

445
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 5: She still does.

446
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 6: I do want still podcasts, an actual actual Oprah girly. Yes,

447
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 6: you and I would get along.

448
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: I need too. I was a subscriber to her to.

449
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 2: Oh magazine, Yeah yeah, books, Yeah yeah, the Obsessed.

450
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: Yeah.

451
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 2: So so when she went, I wanted my fomo increase,

452
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 2: you know so much.

453
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 6: And I'm so compelled by the fact that you heard

454
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 6: about this and wanted to go to the first person

455
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 6: imly wanted to go that wasn't part of the series.

456
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was. I was What year was

457
00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: this that she went? Two thousand and thirty.

458
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 3: For some reason, I just like imagine all of Oprah's

459
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 3: dealings is happening in the nineties, but no, this is

460
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 3: twenty three.

461
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 6: Y yeah, this is like I think, post the show,

462
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 6: like she had just finished the Oprah Show and she

463
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 6: was doing some deeper like spiritual seeking.

464
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: Going.

465
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 6: I know, well, remember I was totally turned to car

466
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 6: told about her. I know, I just I read all

467
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 6: the books. I was really in a moment of searching

468
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 6: myself and she made it too.

469
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: Accessible, right yeah, right, yeah she did.

470
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 3: And so she has him on and she's like, this

471
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:33,959
Speaker 3: man's healing everyone.

472
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 6: Well, not only has him on, she goes there, all right,

473
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 6: she does. She travels to Abadianya, gets healed by him,

474
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 6: I think. And then there's like a moment famous last words.

475
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 6: I guess where she goes. It's getting in her car

476
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 6: and someone asked her, well, what how did how was it?

477
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 6: And she's like, oh, I don't know, but I really

478
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 6: felt I felt something. And then either she wrote about

479
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 6: it and said the body doesn't lie but or said

480
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 6: it at that moment. I can't remember. But yeah, I

481
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 6: mean I you know, I love Oprah. I'm not going

482
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 6: to knock her. She's doing her best. You know, whatever,

483
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 6: she was hard, she was it's hard to fully vet everybody.

484
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you.

485
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 6: Know, if we're gonna criticize her, we should criticize every

486
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 6: journalist that wine at that point, because everyone just kept

487
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 6: repeating the same stories he kept telling. And there is

488
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 6: a little bit of like, oh, well, he says he

489
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 6: can't read or write, and he's from this rural town

490
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 6: and had this moment when he started having visions and

491
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 6: you know, journalists afterwards did look into it and saw

492
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 6: so many inconsistencies, right, you know this it's like folklore.

493
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 6: As a journalist, I'm like, dude, maybe you should have

494
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 6: looked into it a little bit more before reporting it

495
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 6: as fact.

496
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 1: But everyone else had, so I mean.

497
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: A lot of different You just assume that somebody has

498
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 2: done their right research, and yeah, and is it disrespectful

499
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 2: to start questioning the story of a person?

500
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 6: So there's a cultural like sort of out of respect.

501
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 6: I'm not going to question your story. But I think

502
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 6: that's like.

503
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 3: But when someone makes like claims of essentially magic and

504
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 3: we just share their claims un quickly with no corroboration.

505
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 3: I mean, but don't you think there's like a shade

506
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 3: of like exoticism there, Like you're like, oh, well, he's

507
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 3: from another country.

508
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 6: I think that the cross cultural thing is really interesting.

509
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 6: We spoke to a sociologist anthropologist who really studied him

510
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 6: and this movement, but really the international aspect, because she's like,

511
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 6: why why people who have the best doctors, best medical

512
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 6: system in the world fly to this middle of nowhere

513
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 6: town to be treated by this person And there's a

514
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 6: little bit of this exotic like well, like he's closer

515
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 6: to the earth. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, totally,

516
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 6: And it's just that divide. It just gives you that

517
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 6: in distance that your mind fills in the gaps. You know.

518
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 6: It's kind of like the movie in your mind of

519
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 6: who should be a guru?

520
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 5: Right guy? Right?

521
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 3: And as people like ascribe the magical power. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

522
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 3: totally that makes sense.

523
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, and so maybe out of respect you don't question it,

524
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 6: but I think that's just a lack of cultural awareness

525
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 6: and you to cover up for that, you're just like, well,

526
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 6: I'm just gonna I'm just gonna repeat this fact. I mean,

527
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 6: this is me projecting a lot, and just guess it

528
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 6: seems like to.

529
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 3: Me, Yeah, the line the body doesn't lie is so charged.

530
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 3: It's so there's so much to unpack with that line.

531
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 3: Because the body doesn't lie but where is the body

532
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 3: getting its information? Like where is where are the signals

533
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 3: coming from? We're miss misattributing. Is that a word we're misattributing?

534
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, it sounds great to me.

535
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 3: Often when there's a healer, there's so much that's contributing

536
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 3: to the experience that we're having that's given us this

537
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 3: heightened emotional experience that has.

538
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: Nothing to do with their power. It's to do with

539
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: the environment.

540
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 3: It's to do with how much you've been primed, to

541
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 3: do with the music that's playing. It's to do with

542
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 3: the light that's you know, like, there's so many factors

543
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 3: that give the body the experience it's having, so the

544
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 3: body doesn't lie. Feels almost like a thought determinating sentence

545
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 3: to me.

546
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's I don't think it's a well thought out

547
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 6: if you take into account how these systems of deception work, Yeah,

548
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 6: it doesn't.

549
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: It's not kicking that into account.

550
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 3: Jim Jones would have healings in the People's Temple and

551
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 3: they were all fakes. Oh yeah, Like there were people

552
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,239
Speaker 3: who got up out of their wheelchairs and they were

553
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 3: completely staged, you know. So there's just there's so many

554
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 3: things that can make us feel like something magical is happening,

555
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 3: is my point.

556
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, and sometimes the mental stat is right,

557
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: like a spontaneous healing can happen. And then yeah, well.

558
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: That's you know.

559
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 6: That was one thing, like we did not set out

560
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 6: to figure out if he's for real or not. Like

561
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 6: I was like, that's kind of besides the point, and

562
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 6: I did ask almost everyone.

563
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: I was like, so what do you think real? Not real?

564
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 3: But in the end, I was like, I threw it

565
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 3: all out. I was like, that's not doesn't the point

566
00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 3: quite matter?

567
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, Like it's actually, what if he is, You're right exactly,

568
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 6: he's been using his gift in this very dark way.

569
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 6: Plenty of believers are on the podcast who believe that

570
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 6: something powerful happens at Lacasa and his powers and a gift,

571
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 6: and but yeah, their bodies were telling them something that

572
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 6: at some point they couldn't stop listening to, and it

573
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 6: was a different thing.

574
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and it sounds like a lot of

575
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: people had some very serious cognitive dissonance going on because

576
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 3: they really believed in this man and this power in

577
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 3: this place and then also knew that there was all

578
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 3: this other really bad stuff going on. It's all very

579
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 3: interesting how people, you know, place where they put it

580
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 3: in their head, you.

581
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 6: Know, yeah, yeah, and especially if you really believe, if

582
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 6: you're a person of faith, and I start I start

583
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 6: the series really talking about faith because I think I

584
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 6: want to be upfront with the audience about where I

585
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 6: am with faith.

586
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: You know, I was not brought up religious.

587
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 6: I think in different points of my life, when I

588
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 6: was really into Oprah, I was like, no, there is

589
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 6: another there's a bigger power, there's something, and so I

590
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 6: call myself spiritual. But if you believe in this belief system,

591
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 6: it is very hard to get out from under that

592
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 6: and say no, no, you're perverting the thing right that

593
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 6: I believe.

594
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: In actually right, so.

595
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 6: Hard, And I just admire so much the very brave

596
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 6: people who were able to look that in the eye,

597
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 6: you know, and be like, I'm gonna go against like

598
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 6: an entire lifetime of believing in this and say you're wrong,

599
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 6: and I'm right.

600
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. I see parallels between that and kind of people

601
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: whose religion is science maybe, And then all of a

602
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 2: sudden they're saying their favorite scientists or philosopher or whatever

603
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: on let's say the Epstein list or something, and there's

604
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 2: this very like what it's hard.

605
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a couple of things, like, first of all,

606
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 3: we don't want to believe that the people, that the

607
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 3: individuals themselves are bad, but also like it can put

608
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 3: a crack in our entire sense of community and self

609
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 3: and identity. And yeah, it's incredibly difficult. What was the

610
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 3: reading not being able to read or write? Like, what

611
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 3: was the draw of that part of his mythology?

612
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 6: His great question? I don't know it just for some

613
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 6: reasons of detail. Everybody repeats, yeah, well I think it's important. Maybe,

614
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 6: like it's like, oh, he couldn't possibly be so cunning

615
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 6: to deceive all of us. I think that's what's like,

616
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 6: I don't know, what do you think?

617
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: I think that's that makes sense all like beginning, But

618
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: then it's like he's writing the prescription for stuff there

619
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: that's a scribble.

620
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 3: Okay, this does remind me of Joseph Smith, because Joseph

621
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 3: Smith also, I'm going to get the exact numbers wrong,

622
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 3: so former Mormons don't yell at me. But he was

623
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 3: said to have only like a second grade reading level

624
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 3: or something, So how could he possibly translate the full

625
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 3: Book of Mormons so eloquently? It had to have been

626
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 3: coming from somewhere divine.

627
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: Well, when he writes, it's not him doctor, the doctor. Shit,

628
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: he's the doctor.

629
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so he's two people. Yes, he's the medium.

630
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

631
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 6: So when he is himself, he's the medium and they

632
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 6: call him the medium, and that's you know, Joel Deduce,

633
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 6: John of God. When he is channeling a spirit, he

634
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 6: is the entity Lenti, and the entity is literally any

635
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 6: spirit that he is channeling.

636
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 3: So there's not one particular entity. It's like anyone who's like,

637
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 3: I'm fixing my karma. I'm going to ask heal these people.

638
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, but he had like a couple common ones, like

639
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 6: this Portuguese doctor would always like come through him. I

640
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 6: mean he would walk differently, like he like it looked

641
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 6: like he was embodying another being.

642
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: It's all very cinematic.

643
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I feel like the opening scene of

644
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 6: our series is the it's like watching a movie totally.

645
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah.

646
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 3: Can you talk a little bit about some of the

647
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 3: practices besides the healings that involved telling people what to

648
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 3: do with their lives.

649
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 6: Great question. Well, first of all, he ends up in

650
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 6: this little town. Nothing was happening there. It's not too

651
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 6: far from the capital city. But it's like one of

652
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 6: those towns you drive through literal like street, main road

653
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 6: goes through the town and on one side it is

654
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 6: like where everybody lives. And then on the other side

655
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 6: was where they gave him this land where he could

656
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 6: have this spiritual hospital. And so all of a sudden,

657
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 6: it's like you've got tourists from Australia and the Netherlands

658
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 6: and the United States and people from all over Brazil

659
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 6: flocking to this town, thousands of people, and so businesses

660
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 6: crop up, a lot of tour bus operators, guides, posada owners,

661
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 6: the postas were where you could stay, crystal shops, I

662
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 6: mean everything, and so the town very quickly becomes dependent

663
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 6: on Lacasa and some of the rules. There was a

664
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 6: lot of rules. There's a guidebook actually where you can

665
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 6: see some of the For example, we had to wear white,

666
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 6: and so everyone who's in this town is wearing white,

667
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 6: and you already know that there's something. Oh this is interesting.

668
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 6: Everybody's wearing white. Yeah, that's to make.

669
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 3: Your aura lighter and easier to read. Again, so cinematic

670
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 3: m and everybody.

671
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 6: Descends upon the casa in the morning, so it's like

672
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 6: seven am, and these people are all walking, and many

673
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 6: of them walking barefoot again so that you could feel

674
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 6: the earth and like get the energy from the earth

675
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 6: and like holding their crystals and stuff. And they even

676
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 6: said not to wear jewelry or anything metal. So this

677
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 6: ended up becoming like translated. Some people didn't wear underwear

678
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 6: or didn't wear bras. You know, it's like she's literally

679
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 6: just like this flowing like you know.

680
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, don't obstruct your waist, and so

681
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 2: people were like I don't want to like have underwear

682
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 2: like like clinching my waist.

683
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it made sense, and that's sense.

684
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, And so you know, it's just so important to

685
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 6: put yourself in the moment, and everyone's doing it right.

686
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 6: This is not like a bunch of people who you

687
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 6: can't imagine being friends with. They're like, you know, professionals there.

688
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 6: They're people from all over all walks of life, and

689
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 6: you're talking to them over lunch and having coffee and

690
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 6: trading stories and so these people really feel like people

691
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 6: who could be your tribe and.

692
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 2: Well educated people, yeah, who are you know, Like, oh,

693
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 2: I mean I guess you don't have to even be educated,

694
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 2: but yeah, like if you see a doctor there, you're like, oh, okay.

695
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: Well certainly going to add more legitimate.

696
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 6: Says yeah, yeah, and then lots of like so people

697
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 6: would go in and meditate or pray. I'm really unclear

698
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 6: on what they were doing. If they were pray, I

699
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 6: think they were mostly praying. But you could also meditate

700
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 6: with your eyes closed, and it was really important that

701
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 6: you had your eyes closed. Eyes closed were like enforced,

702
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 6: so they had people watching.

703
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: It.

704
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 6: Close your eyes up close, like they would call you

705
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 6: out if you open your eyes, because you are not

706
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 6: letting the energy like enter you and you're not giving

707
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 6: your energy. So the other thing is like they you

708
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 6: would meditate to lend your energy to the mediums who

709
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 6: were using your energy to heal.

710
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: Which already gives you such a sense of purpose, Like

711
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 2: that almost brings me in to tear.

712
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: Is just that beautiful, It's beautiful, And so you.

713
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 6: Felt like you were giving back to these people you

714
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 6: just met and helping them heal.

715
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it all feels like a very symbiotic spiritual system,

716
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 3: like the spirits are helping and then you're helping the

717
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 3: mediums and the meaningums are helping you. Lots of helping,

718
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 3: which is all very well, that's he feels very honorable

719
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 3: and good.

720
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 6: It was based on altruism and empathy and yeah, giving

721
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 6: of yourself.

722
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 5: Hmmm.

723
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 6: So I'm trying to think if there's any other rules

724
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 6: worth mentioning, but these were those are the big ones.

725
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 3: So let's say, like many people who went to see him,

726
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: Let's say my parent has cancer. It's terminal. I've seen

727
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 3: every doctor here, it's hopeless. I'm going to bring them

728
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 3: to go see John of God. What actually weapons? Once

729
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 3: I get there, I get.

730
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: In line, get in line. There's two different lines.

731
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 6: There's lines for people who've already been seen and are

732
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 6: doing a follow up visit, or who are going for

733
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 6: the first time. You're given a number, and I think

734
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 6: that that's how you end up being called up. And

735
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 6: you're either seen in the morning or in the afternoon,

736
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 6: and there's a break in the middle of the day.

737
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 6: And in the break, I think is when he would

738
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 6: do his visible surgeries in front of everybody on a stage. Yeah,

739
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 6: but in the morning and in the evening in the

740
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 6: afternoon he is literally sitting in a chair healing people

741
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 6: or going into that room and in front of everyone

742
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 6: healing like a whole room of people with their eyes shut.

743
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

744
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, a very interesting person in your series as Michael, Yeah,

745
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 2: who kept peeking and seeing that John of God was

746
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 2: like super bored.

747
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons that he was like not.

748
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 2: Wanting people to peek, because he's just like yawning, staring

749
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 2: off into space, like scratching his life.

750
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 6: Can you imagine sitting in a chair for that long

751
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,439
Speaker 6: Oh my day after And this was actually another thing

752
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 6: that people were like so impressed with him. They're like,

753
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 6: he must be a good person. Look how much he

754
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 6: gives it because he doesn't charge.

755
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 3: This is all.

756
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: I am using my hands to me, which.

757
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 2: Is like such a such a classic, classic, classic one.

758
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: But yeah he did. He did call this free healing.

759
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean, and they had a soup

760
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,760
Speaker 6: kitchen where you could get free soup.

761
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: But of course, what do you what do you? What

762
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: does he ask that you do?

763
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 2: Oh?

764
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 6: You should you need to take these pills, Oh you

765
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 6: need to take this water, and that those are so

766
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 6: which costs money. They cost money, right, I mean, some

767
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 6: some journalists did like the math, and it was quite

768
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 6: a bit of money per month, hundreds of thousands of dollars. Wow,

769
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 6: And that's just the money from selling things. And then

770
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 6: people would donate money because they're like, oh, spiritual hospital history. Yeah,

771
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 6: he healed me, he healed my brother, my dad, Let

772
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 6: me give you my money, right.

773
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 2: Well this, yeah, the sorry, go ahead. I was just

774
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: gonna you know what I'm gonna say. I'm going to

775
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 2: complain about the call I grew up in, and they do.

776
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: The same thing.

777
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 2: It's the beauty and the spiritual reality of it is

778
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 2: that there's no money involved except for the ones that

779
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 2: we get in secret and all the wills of people

780
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 2: who died that we take all their money.

781
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: And then it's like so annoying.

782
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 3: Well also it reminds me of just like take your

783
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 3: free internet class, but at the end, in order to

784
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 3: actually complete the course, you have to spend. You have

785
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 3: to buy this other thing. Like you're not gonna get

786
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 3: the healing if you don't buy this stuff. So it's

787
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 3: not free. No, speaking to him is free, but getting

788
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 3: the healing is not free.

789
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: Not free, not free. It's false advertising, false.

790
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 6: Advertising, I agree, But somehow it didn't. I mean, I

791
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 6: think it did register that way for a lot of people,

792
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 6: and they just went home because like, you don't want

793
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 6: to be the you know, negative Nancy for lack of

794
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 6: a better word, who's like, hey, you guys, I don't

795
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 6: think he's gonna give it to us if we don't pay.

796
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 6: Like I'm sure people were disillusioned and just left.

797
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody had that energy around me while I was

798
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: at the castle.

799
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 2: Would be like getting away from me, go home, Yeah,

800
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: you need to go home, get away from me.

801
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 6: I am drinking my you know Tiger Lily latte or

802
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 6: whatever it does is, and you know, holding my my.

803
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, my bad energy. I'd had bad energy.

804
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that'd be me. I'd have bad Yeah. Yeah,

805
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 2: I'd be like, well, la, no.

806
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 3: I would keep my Masha because I wouldn't want to

807
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 3: ruin other people's experiences for them.

808
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: But you would tell me. I would tell you, and

809
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 1: then you'd be pissed and then it would be awkward,

810
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: and then I'd remain mentally ill. It's not right.

811
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:44,439
Speaker 2: So yeah, how much money was were uh the tour

812
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 2: guides bringing in?

813
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 6: Because that I just think, if I remember correctly, it

814
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 6: was like two to three thousand dollars per person sometimes

815
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 6: and just to explain who they were, you know, as

816
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 6: you're seeing you're waiting in line in our reporting, we

817
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 6: found that some people mentioned that, you know, they thought

818
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,919
Speaker 6: they were being spied on, so that you know, somehow

819
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 6: someone would slip, you know, John, I've got a paper

820
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 6: and be like, hey this guy, this guy's he's from

821
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 6: the States, like oh, this one she's from France. And

822
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 6: then he would when he's in his trance or whatever,

823
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 6: and seeing him seeing them would be like you have

824
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 6: been chosen to bring people from your country to this place,

825
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 6: and they would feel so special. And I mean not

826
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 6: everyone who would get chosen. That was you had to

827
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 6: have his permission. Let's put it that way. You couldn't

828
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 6: just like start bringing people. You couldn't do anything in

829
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 6: that town without his express permission. And he took a cut,

830
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,439
Speaker 6: of course he did, Okay, yeah, he took his cut.

831
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 6: So the tour guide some some didn't charge, Some charged

832
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 6: what a cost, you know, or would charge just enough

833
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 6: to finance their trips because they wanted to go. But

834
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 6: some really made a lot of money off of it.

835
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 6: It's it's not that expensive to go to Brazil. I

836
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 6: just got here what a ticket can cost between one

837
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 6: thousand and fourteen hundred dollars to go to Latin America, right,

838
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 6: But they were charging three thousand dollars and you would

839
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 6: get a stay and have a tour guide. I mean,

840
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 6: the people did need tour guides, and they did need translators.

841
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 6: They were coming without speaking a word of Portuguese. But

842
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 6: it seemed fishy to some people that they were allowed

843
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 6: to charge, and it kind of lent itself to being like, Okay,

844
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 6: well he really wants to incentivize foreigners to come here,

845
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:34,919
Speaker 6: and that was there his system. I mean, it really

846
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 6: it worked because the tour guides would bring people, those

847
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 6: people would some of them become tour guides, bring more.

848
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: People et cetera, et cetera than Oprih.

849
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it must have been such an exciting

850
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 3: place to visit if there's like people there from all

851
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 3: over the world, like I have to imagine be just

852
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 3: like brimming with energy.

853
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

854
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 6: I have never been to a place that was supposedly holy.

855
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 6: I've never done that kind of trip. But if I

856
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 6: happened upon that place and people were like, there's something

857
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 6: really special here, and everyone's telling you that, and you

858
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 6: see it in their face and you feel it like

859
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 6: literally emanating off their bodies, and people really said that

860
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 6: it was just like being.

861
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: High walking around there. Yeah, like everyone was awake, you know,

862
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: to the world or something.

863
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 3: It's like an experience I would want to have, even

864
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 3: if it was fake, you know.

865
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 2: I was to say it was like a monastery wants

866
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: to meditate for two weeks, okay, And there was no

867
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 2: healing promise. It was just like a course that you

868
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 2: could take in my school program. And but we were

869
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 2: like away in a different country, quiet meditating all day.

870
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 2: Like the energy that builds up is insane, you know,

871
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 2: like I believe it. Yeah, And whether or not that's

872
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: of a spiritual nature, it's not to be debated. I'm

873
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 2: just saying there is an energy when people are super

874
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 2: still and all focused together for hours at a day time,

875
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 2: and all of this is just leaning more and more

876
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 2: power and agency to him that's not even really the

877
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 2: one doing anything.

878
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 5: Well.

879
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 6: What's interesting is like, you know, as things start to unravel,

880
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 6: which spoilerlert they do. Even people who were believers or

881
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 6: also mediums there were like, there's something's a little off

882
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 6: because we're all capable of channeling. Why is he saying

883
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 6: he's the only one who can do so so such

884
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 6: and such thing, or why is he trying to you know,

885
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 6: get cozy with powerful people like it just it even

886
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 6: was he was even betraying his own belief system at

887
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 6: some point, and that was what kind of toik some

888
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,959
Speaker 6: people off or made them like, well, this doesn't feel right.

889
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: And acknowledging you can be in that state and be

890
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: like I must be wrong, right right?

891
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, Or I'm not going to say anything because I

892
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 6: don't want to jeopardize the good work I'm doing exactly

893
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 6: so many good people. Yeah, I really want to stress

894
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 6: that just because you might have gone there or even

895
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 6: bought a house there or lived there or followed him,

896
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 6: you know, does not mean you're a bad person. But

897
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 6: but good people get wrapped up into a really messy

898
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 6: and convoluted system of deceit, and with good intentions, end

899
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 6: up covering up or explaining away things that were wrong

900
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 6: for decades.

901
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: Oh, Lola, I know you're gonna ask me. You're correct? Yeah?

902
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,959
Speaker 2: I would, Yeah, I would, bet, I'd join it. Yeah,

903
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 2: scissors up my nose, I'd do all of it. And

904
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 2: I am so scared of all the things that could

905
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 2: have happened to me that luckily didn't so to anybody

906
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 2: who did fall prey to him. I'm so sorry, please

907
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 2: listen to next week's episode. It just gets so much

908
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 2: more horrible. But there's a lot there that I think

909
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 2: we can use to help protect people in the future

910
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 2: and to keep the pressure on John of God in particular.

911
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 3: Do you think that you are less susceptible to cults

912
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 3: because you're so susceptible to cults, Like, because you're like, oh,

913
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 3: this community seems amazing, you'd also be like, but these

914
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 3: other communities also seem amazing.

915
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting question you're saying, Like, I'm so

916
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 2: add that one.

917
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like it seems like you're in you're kind of

918
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 3: like a cult hot brea. You have like spiritual wanderlust

919
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 3: where you like kind of want to try every community

920
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 3: and try everything. I'm never going to commit to one cult,

921
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. Yeah, like and the new flashier one.

922
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 2: I'm always gonna run in the middle of the night

923
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 2: with my little with my little sack of clothes.

924
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: That they love me keep. And that is the facts.

925
00:46:55,239 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 2: Jack's so yeah, you're right, and also just weirdly, like

926
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 2: so many things, even when I was super susceptible to

927
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 2: this stuff, I was like no, Like there was just

928
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: a lot of like weird little things that I that

929
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 2: I wouldn't like and it would turn me off the

930
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 2: whole thing, so so much luck, a little bit of discretion,

931
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 2: but absolute cult hopper to my core at the end

932
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 2: of the day.

933
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 1: Did that answer anything? It did.

934
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 3: It's kind of how I feel. Nope, that's not That's

935
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 3: not a comparable thing at all. I was going to

936
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 3: reference the fact that I've never gotten a tattoo and

937
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 3: because I just like, can't imagine wanting to commit to

938
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 3: something for that long, you know, And I feel like

939
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 3: it feels similar in my head, but when I say

940
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 3: it out loud, it doesn't sound that similar.

941
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: But you know what I mean.

942
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 2: Sure, I was eating with this older man the other

943
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 2: night who's friends with my friend, and he was like,

944
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 2: have you ever been married? And I was like no,

945
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 2: And he was like, you shouldn't tell people that. They'll

946
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 2: think there's something wrong with you. And I was like,

947
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 2: do you think I haven't had the opportunity to be

948
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 2: married to fifty thousand times?

949
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 1: Like, I can't. I can't commit to that. That's crazy.

950
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 2: So yeah, I can't commit to a marriage A call

951
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 2: to whatever, like correct good instincts on that, la la,

952
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: But John and God could have gotten me for a

953
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: good year.

954
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:19,720
Speaker 3: Hell yah, good to know oneself, Good to know oneself

955
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 3: and good to know yourself.

956
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:29,240
Speaker 2: And that you're listening to who Wow right at five stars.

957
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 2: We know you love it. Come back next week. Next

958
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 2: week is just absolutely incredible. Love next week's interview too.

959
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 2: As always, remember to follow your gut, watch out for

960
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 2: red flags, and never ever trust me.

961
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 3: This has been an exactly right production hosted by me Lola.

962
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 2: Blanc and Me Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Gee Holley.

963
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 2: This episode was mixed by John Bradley. Our associate producer

964
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 2: is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker Patrick Kottner.

965
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 3: Our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

966
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 2: Trust Me as executive produced by Karen Kilgareth Georgia Hardstark

967
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 2: and Danielle Kramer.

968
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 3: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me podcast

969
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 3: or on TikTok at trust Me coult podcast.

970
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 2: Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, our manipulation.

971
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 2: Shoot us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

972
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 3: Listen to trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

973
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts.