Speaker 1: Welcome to PM Mood, the no Talking Points, no Bullshit
Speaker 1: podcast that takes you behind the curtain, off the red carpet,
Speaker 1: and to the front lines of progress with change makers
Speaker 1: and innovators that are doing the work to shift our
Speaker 1: culture and expand our social impact. Y'all, I am so
Speaker 1: excited to bring you this incredible interview that I got
Speaker 1: to do pre quarantine with legendary journalists Ed Gordon, author
Speaker 1: of the new book Conversations in Black on Power, politics
Speaker 1: and leadership. Thank you so much, Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 1: I have been very excited to speak with you for
Speaker 1: more for a few reasons. One because my background is
Speaker 1: in politics. I did not go to school for communications,
Speaker 1: but I got into communication is kind of because of activism.
Speaker 1: And I think that as I have been going through
Speaker 1: your career thirty plus years, working literally at every network
Speaker 1: in every place, from b ET, CBS, NBC, you know
Speaker 1: the question that you open up your book with is
Speaker 1: a question that I want to open up our conversation with,
Speaker 1: which is throughout the course of your career you have
Speaker 1: seen so much. You have spoken to presidents, activists, leaders,
Speaker 1: members of Congress, and here we are in twenty twenty
Speaker 1: and the question that it still permeates is what is
Speaker 1: going on? Well, I think that's always a question, right,
Speaker 1: what's going on? It's a fair question for any generation,
Speaker 1: but I think for African Americans in particular, because we
Speaker 1: were brought in quotes here to this country. The sense
Speaker 1: of us not having control and needing to ask what's
Speaker 1: going on? Not in the general sense of hey, what's
Speaker 1: happening and what's going on? But what is going on?
Speaker 1: Because we don't control It has always been a question
Speaker 1: that we've had to grapple with because often we don't
Speaker 1: have control. We can't say, oh, well, this is going
Speaker 1: on or that's going on. Somebody else controls our what's
Speaker 1: going on? And so when I open up the book
Speaker 1: and I talk about Marvin Gay asking that question musically
Speaker 1: so many years ago and having the idea of some
Speaker 1: of those same issues, same ills being so prevalent today.
Speaker 1: You know, we say, oh, he was such a master.
Speaker 1: He was, he was all of that, But it was
Speaker 1: less about Marvin being able to see into the future
Speaker 1: as it is just we've not changed in this country
Speaker 1: enough that it hasn't made some of those ills outdated
Speaker 1: for us. And that's the real sense of what's problematic
Speaker 1: to me. Do you find that that is a sense
Speaker 1: sometimes of hopelessness that black folks have, because when we
Speaker 1: look right at our history, when we look at the
Speaker 1: progress that we've made, I mean, you can go back
Speaker 1: and you can stay. Well, we were brought here in bondage,
Speaker 1: and we were able to see a black president. So
Speaker 1: we want to be able to celebrate the paths that
Speaker 1: we have fought and the places that we've gone. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't look like a lot has changed from that though,
Speaker 1: right So a lot has changed, a lot has changed quickly.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes we forget that the change of a nation,
Speaker 1: those cogs move very slowly. We've been able to accelerate
Speaker 1: it very quickly. I think our sense of hopelessness as
Speaker 1: a black people is very fleeting. I think there are
Speaker 1: times that we feel this isn't changing, It's always going
Speaker 1: to be the same. The white man keeps us down.
Speaker 1: But that's very fleeting, which is why we've been able
Speaker 1: to survive and thrive, many of us, some of us
Speaker 1: because we are wrong people. For as downtrodden as they
Speaker 1: try to portray us, for as sometimes as overwhelming as
Speaker 1: our conditions have been in this nation. I see us
Speaker 1: as a strong people, as a people that I won't
Speaker 1: say no other people could have done this. I'm sure
Speaker 1: Jews would say that they lived through the Holocaust, and
Speaker 1: they did and all. But when you look at the
Speaker 1: sheer issues that we have dealt with were the number
Speaker 1: of years that we have dealt with, we are very
Speaker 1: strong people. Some of what we continue to trip over
Speaker 1: is self inflicted. And what I hope in terms of
Speaker 1: this book is that we start to look at new narratives,
Speaker 1: have different conversations, look at the things that brought us
Speaker 1: here that may now be obsolete and we need to
Speaker 1: put them aside. I'm not talking about people. I'm talking
Speaker 1: about issues, because I think that we are in need
Speaker 1: in some respects of new narratives. But there are other
Speaker 1: things that served us well. And I don't mean just
Speaker 1: the moo men in marches, And I'm talking about how
Speaker 1: we treat each other and what we've done, and this
Speaker 1: sense of black people really feeling like a family at times.
Speaker 1: I think that's lessened in the sixties. I was born
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixties, so I don't know about the sixties,
Speaker 1: but I know about the seventies and the eighties, and
Speaker 1: there was this sense I think a lot more of
Speaker 1: even though now we say hey sister, hey brother, that
Speaker 1: sense is not the same as it was in the seventies.
Speaker 1: There was a real sense of sisterhood, brotherhood amongst our community.
Speaker 1: There was a real sense of if you lived down
Speaker 1: the street, that you are my child too. You know,
Speaker 1: I think that has waned a little bit, certainly, just
Speaker 1: proximity Black people back then we all had to I
Speaker 1: remember one of I grew up in Detroit. One of
Speaker 1: the star Detroit Lions, Charlie Sanders, who was a tight end,
Speaker 1: literally lived three blocks away. He was an All Pro
Speaker 1: football player. Today he would live, he would live somewhere
Speaker 1: communities I wouldn't be able to. As we did walk
Speaker 1: up to his door, three twelve year olds knock on
Speaker 1: his door. His wife answers, and we said, can we
Speaker 1: see Charlie, And then Charlie invite us in back to
Speaker 1: his den, show us his footballs, show us his trophies.
Speaker 1: That meant a lot to us. He wasn't this multi
Speaker 1: millionaire who lives somewhere else. Even though people and kids
Speaker 1: aspire to be Lebron James or whomever today, Steph Curry
Speaker 1: or whomever you can't touch them in the same way
Speaker 1: that we were able to. So I think there's some
Speaker 1: things that we need to think about getting back to.
Speaker 1: And doesn't mean that a multibillionaire and millionaire's gonna move
Speaker 1: back to your community, but this sense of being able
Speaker 1: to touch them more often than we do well when
Speaker 1: in that sense, you know, I think about Nipsey Hustle,
Speaker 1: and I think about someone who actually was living in
Speaker 1: his community right and was very active and trying to
Speaker 1: build in his community, and then he was murdered in
Speaker 1: his community. And we talk about that in the book,
Speaker 1: and some will say, some will argue that he shouldn't
Speaker 1: have been living there, that he should have maybe continue
Speaker 1: to help, but shouldn't have been necessarily living there and
Speaker 1: the way he lived there. So, but that's part of
Speaker 1: the discussion, that's part of the conversation. Is that right
Speaker 1: is that wrong? Is there no right or wrong? Is
Speaker 1: that an individual's choice. I just want us to do
Speaker 1: two things with this book. I want us to find
Speaker 1: new narratives. I want us to start talking, not like
Speaker 1: we've been talking, just complaining or saying the same things.
Speaker 1: I want us to hold insightful conversations that empower us
Speaker 1: not just leadership, but empower twenty two year old who
Speaker 1: thinks she has no power to make change, or forty
Speaker 1: five year old who feels like I gotta continue working
Speaker 1: hard my nine to five to get that next promotion.
Speaker 1: To know that we all have a stake in this game,
Speaker 1: and we all need to put something, some skin in
Speaker 1: the game of making all of us better, strong, or
Speaker 1: more independent, you know, becoming more financially sound as a community.
Speaker 1: So we're not living by means of gratitude to a
Speaker 1: corporation who funds Quite frankly, many of our organizations. These
Speaker 1: are the same companies, and we talk about this in
Speaker 1: the book. These are the same companies that in some
Speaker 1: respects cause the ills in our community. Yet they give
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars to a civil rights organization to
Speaker 1: put on their gala and their dinner, and we're cool
Speaker 1: with that. We have to start thinking about different ways
Speaker 1: to attack our issues. Why do you think that we
Speaker 1: haven't been so expansive in the way that we've been
Speaker 1: thinking about the issues, Because I do think that it
Speaker 1: is important to have a space where you can vent,
Speaker 1: right Like we are the only ones that understand what
Speaker 1: it is like to be black in America, to have
Speaker 1: to navigate all of these different obstacles that frankly were
Speaker 1: created by other people for us. And so what do
Speaker 1: you think? How do you because I know the point
Speaker 1: of this book is to create new narratives in power,
Speaker 1: in politics, in leadership, what do you think has been missing?
Speaker 1: So what makes it hard is that there's no right
Speaker 1: or wrong answer to that, because in some respects we
Speaker 1: have been expansive, we have overcome I remember I talked
Speaker 1: about it in the book Going to Chicago. I flew
Speaker 1: to Chicago to interview Barack Obama about a month or
Speaker 1: two weeks before he was going to announce that he
Speaker 1: was going to run. I knew him a little bit,
Speaker 1: we'd had some phone conversations, but didn't really know him well.
Speaker 1: I knew that he wouldn't announce on this show that day,
Speaker 1: but he might give me a little nugget. And I
Speaker 1: remember asking him saying, you know, a senator there whispers
Speaker 1: about you possibly running. And then he got into whatever
Speaker 1: spiel he was going to give me, and I remember
Speaker 1: as he was talking, thinking in my head, yeah whatever, man, Yeah, bro,
Speaker 1: you ain't winning. You know, just don't embarrass us, do
Speaker 1: you think, but you're not winning. But he believed, he believed,
Speaker 1: truly believed that he he could do this. He believed
Speaker 1: we figured this thing out with social media, with young people.
Speaker 1: What's our thresholder Without that new narrative, Without that new thought,
Speaker 1: we would have never seen what we saw, which gave
Speaker 1: my daughter who's twenty five and outlook and less baggage
Speaker 1: than I had at twenty five when I thought I'll
Speaker 1: never see a black president. She doesn't have to grow
Speaker 1: up with that baggage. So I think that we sometimes
Speaker 1: don't give ourselves enough credit either. So the key is
Speaker 1: to just keep talking. What I'd love for us to
Speaker 1: do is maybe as organizations cobbled together for superhero fans
Speaker 1: and Avengers like Team you know of maybe some of
Speaker 1: the Black Lives Matter people and NAN and NAACP and
Speaker 1: the Urban League, and tackle one specific issue. You can
Speaker 1: have your singular issues, but and I know that one
Speaker 1: specific whether it's education, whether it's police brutality, whether whatever
Speaker 1: the case may be, closing the wealth. Ye find out
Speaker 1: what's that one issue that you all can agree on
Speaker 1: and say, look, we're gonna and then bring the things
Speaker 1: that you do best to the table and let's attack that,
Speaker 1: and let's ask all of us, here's the issue that
Speaker 1: we are going to attack, whether it's police brutality, which
Speaker 1: I thought maybe that would have been at when there
Speaker 1: was such a fervor with the spate of killings that
Speaker 1: we saw with Treyvon and Michael Brown and Sandra Bland
Speaker 1: and Tamir Rice, and we can go on and on
Speaker 1: and that, and that started to die away, as most
Speaker 1: causes do. And I think about, you know, the Montgomery
Speaker 1: bus boycott and how great those people were to keep
Speaker 1: that going for over a year and never to lose
Speaker 1: the idea of this is what we're fighting for, this
Speaker 1: is what we're gonna do. And surely that wasn't a nation,
Speaker 1: but that was a community of people. And they didn't
Speaker 1: let anybody waiver, you know. They said, no, that you're
Speaker 1: not getting on that bus. Dot, we'll get a car,
Speaker 1: we'll pay your cab fare, we'll you know, but you
Speaker 1: not getting on that bus. And they didn't. And it
Speaker 1: not only changed Montgomery, but really change the world at
Speaker 1: least America. That's I hope what we can do. It's
Speaker 1: not that the issues have changed so much. I think
Speaker 1: that it's the ways in which we have those conversations
Speaker 1: and the fact that we don't necessarily live in community
Speaker 1: the way that we did. You could do a Montgomery
Speaker 1: bus boycott back in those times because it was a
Speaker 1: very small community. Now we are everywhere, and it feels
Speaker 1: like our problems are everywhere. So let's take one problem
Speaker 1: that affects all of us, no matter where you live,
Speaker 1: and that is racial profiling and the possibility of being
Speaker 1: unjustly arrested or killed by law enforcement. You can be
Speaker 1: a brother in the Bronx, or you can be a
Speaker 1: movie star in la and you can get pulled over
Speaker 1: in the same way. You can be harassed in the
Speaker 1: same way. If they don't know it's Anthony Anderson or
Speaker 1: Jamie Fox or whomever you know, and heaven forbid if
Speaker 1: they move the wrong way before they even got into
Speaker 1: the winner, and they may not even know that it's
Speaker 1: Anthony Anderson or Jamie Fox. You know, they might know Denzel,
Speaker 1: but they may not know all of us. Right, there
Speaker 1: are issues that we could attack no matter where we live,
Speaker 1: our condition, our station in life, that we could say
Speaker 1: this affects all of us. Or if we and this
Speaker 1: is not just black people, if we are of the
Speaker 1: belief that as we say our children are our future,
Speaker 1: and we really care about kids, then why are the
Speaker 1: school systems so poor? The vast majority of black kids
Speaker 1: who go to public schools will not be prepared for
Speaker 1: this modern world. I live in Brooklyn, and there are
Speaker 1: in the vicinity of where I live there must be
Speaker 1: at least ten public schools that are in walking distance
Speaker 1: of my house. There are only black kids that go there, right,
Speaker 1: And from the outside it seems fine, But I know
Speaker 1: better because I have worked in New York City public
Speaker 1: affairs system and will know the public education system and
Speaker 1: know that they're all failing. And I say to myself,
Speaker 1: why why? Because Brooklyn is incredibly gentrified. New York is
Speaker 1: incredibly gentrified, and yet none of those white folks are
Speaker 1: putting their kids in public schools. And we have to
Speaker 1: be honest about our conversations. We don't sometimes like to
Speaker 1: tell our truths out loud in public. I have argued
Speaker 1: with many a public school teacher who tries to defend
Speaker 1: often not necessarily their particular school, but the system as
Speaker 1: a whole. And then they will say to me, well,
Speaker 1: you're a public school graduate, And I say to them,
Speaker 1: a proud one but the system I grew up in
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy seventy one, seventy two through my graduation
Speaker 1: in high school nineteen seventy eight is not the same
Speaker 1: school system that a kid in Detroit would have to
Speaker 1: deal with today. So please don't tout me as a
Speaker 1: college or a high school graduate who went through the
Speaker 1: public school system who did well and assume that that
Speaker 1: system could turn me out today. Yeah, that's incredibly important.
Speaker 1: Somebody who does have a very singular focus is Stacy Abrams.
Speaker 1: Stacy Abrams, having been robbed of the governorship in Georgia,
Speaker 1: is very focused on voter suppression. Is very focused on
Speaker 1: creating a machine to enlist and inspire and engage Black people,
Speaker 1: Latin X people, women, young people in activating their right
Speaker 1: to vote. That has always been a huge issue in
Speaker 1: the community. And we see what happens allah Donald Trump
Speaker 1: when people decide to opt out of the system. Could
Speaker 1: that be something could be? It could be. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, you look at Andrew Gillum and others who
Speaker 1: have also thrown their hat in the ring to make
Speaker 1: sure that they design organizations and watchdog groups to try
Speaker 1: to suppress the voter suppression. So you have to ask
Speaker 1: yourself if the NAACP, if Urban League, if now maybe
Speaker 1: not Urban League because of their stance in terms of
Speaker 1: the organization they are, But whomever we want to dictate
Speaker 1: as those who would be on that front lines, maybe
Speaker 1: that would be one of those things that certainly if
Speaker 1: you did that as a collective versus all of these
Speaker 1: little silos, it would be stronger. But I think we'll
Speaker 1: find out the medal of black people for this election
Speaker 1: if you don't realize now that sitting out got you
Speaker 1: not only Donald Trump. But I tell people it's not
Speaker 1: about Donald Trump. He'll either be gone in four or
Speaker 1: eight years. It's about all of these judges he's appointed,
Speaker 1: who have lifetime appointments, who will deal with your children
Speaker 1: and make life harder for your children. So I think
Speaker 1: we have to start to say, hey, we cannot sit out,
Speaker 1: and you can't allow, even if you don't love the candidate,
Speaker 1: this to happen again. Because Hillary Clinton ran a poor campaign,
Speaker 1: she did not speak to black people in the way
Speaker 1: she should. I would deal with her campaign once a
Speaker 1: month saying look, I got to a point where I said,
Speaker 1: if you're not going to sit with me, sit with
Speaker 1: Roland sit with you know, anybody, anybody, anybody, just talk
Speaker 1: to black folks in a way that you're not It's
Speaker 1: not enough to go with Beyonce and Jay Z on
Speaker 1: stage and take a selfie with Lebron James and assume
Speaker 1: that that's enough. It's not enough, So poor campaign, notwithstanding
Speaker 1: what we have to do. What we have to do
Speaker 1: is say to whomever we give our vote to, we're
Speaker 1: gonna give it to you, but when you get in office,
Speaker 1: you will no longer take us for granted. Often an
Speaker 1: uneducated voter believes that their power stops at election day, right.
Speaker 1: The reality is your power should start the day after
Speaker 1: election day. You should be able to walk in you know,
Speaker 1: quid pro quo has become famous through Donald Trump, right,
Speaker 1: But that's what politics has always been about. Okay, I
Speaker 1: gave you my vote. Now this is my expectation and
Speaker 1: not to be afraid to go in there and demand it.
Speaker 1: And that comes not only from individuals, but that should
Speaker 1: be our leadership. And it's not enough to demand that
Speaker 1: just because your leader has an open door policy with
Speaker 1: whomever as a president, that's not enough. You know, the
Speaker 1: fact that you get to take pictures and be at
Speaker 1: the press conferences. That's not enough. What else are we getting?
Speaker 1: I think that we've got to become more sophisticated in
Speaker 1: our politics, you know. But I also think that that
Speaker 1: goes back to the failings of our public education system
Speaker 1: and the failings of civics in general. By background, I'm
Speaker 1: an educator, was an early childhood educator, believed very much
Speaker 1: in building up the education and creating global citizens that
Speaker 1: will take off on the world. And I think that
Speaker 1: what is always frustrating to me and what I try
Speaker 1: and advocate in terms of the responsibility of your citizenship.
Speaker 1: Imagine having your daughter you didn't drop her off in
Speaker 1: kindergarten and pick her up in twelfth grade at graduation,
Speaker 1: but having no parent teacher conference, having no engagement whatsoever,
Speaker 1: and not following up and asking her who her friends were,
Speaker 1: who she's hanging out with, engaging with her teachers, and
Speaker 1: understanding what her interests are and how she's changing over
Speaker 1: that time. It's the same way that folks don't engage
Speaker 1: with their elected officials once. That's just it. There's nothing
Speaker 1: in this book that is so earth shattering that we
Speaker 1: uncovered something new. The answers are there. We have to
Speaker 1: just believe that those answers work. And what's interesting is
Speaker 1: we have to stop chastising those of us that don't
Speaker 1: agree that it should be left instead of right. The
Speaker 1: reason that I try to have this broad selection of people,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean literally the first name on the
Speaker 1: front cover is Maxine Waters, and the last name before
Speaker 1: we get to and many more's t I completely different,
Speaker 1: and we run the gamut in between. What we need
Speaker 1: to do is find commonalities in common ground and say, look,
Speaker 1: I may not agree that the answers charter schools, but
Speaker 1: I do believe that we have a problem with our
Speaker 1: community and law enforcement. So let's hold hands on that
Speaker 1: you do charter. I'm gonna stick with public, but dog
Speaker 1: garn it, we're gonna work together on this. There are
Speaker 1: things that we can agree. We all need to say
Speaker 1: this impacts and affects all of us, and let's move
Speaker 1: to that. And again, I still say a good litmus
Speaker 1: test is the twenty twenty election. It's going to be
Speaker 1: a test, all right, It's gonna be a test. Someone
Speaker 1: said to me, forgive me, But someone said to me
Speaker 1: the other day when we were doing an interview, but
Speaker 1: what are we gonna do if Trump wins. What do
Speaker 1: we gear up with? I said, then it's too late
Speaker 1: to gear up. Gearing up for Trump is right now
Speaker 1: gearing up. But Trump is making sure that you go
Speaker 1: to the polls. And not only you know it's cliche,
Speaker 1: but it works when you go take somebody and take
Speaker 1: somebody else, and take somebody else. You know how you
Speaker 1: get four girlfriends and you go to the concert, Get
Speaker 1: those four and go to the polls. You gotta have
Speaker 1: five dudes to run a pickup game. Get them five
Speaker 1: dudes and let's go to the polls. It's real. There
Speaker 1: are solutions here for some of these problems. So Trump
Speaker 1: doesn't have to get a second term, and if he does,
Speaker 1: and if he does, shame on us. We have the numbers.
Speaker 1: Democrats always have the number. You always have the numbers,
Speaker 1: which is why voter suppression is real. We have the numbers,
Speaker 1: which I don't think the suppression will be the same
Speaker 1: though this time I don't. I really don't. I do
Speaker 1: think that. Let me say this, if we're smart again,
Speaker 1: people like Stacy and you know, the eyes will be
Speaker 1: much keener than they were the last time. Doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that it can't happen. It doesn't mean that the right.
Speaker 1: I'm not suggested, but I am suggesting too. If you
Speaker 1: turn out. I mean, just look at the percentage of
Speaker 1: people who are registered but don't vote. It's hard to
Speaker 1: suppress huge numbers, that's what I can It's hard to
Speaker 1: do that if you keep those numbers low, which is
Speaker 1: why the Russians and the Bots were you know, they're
Speaker 1: against black people because they said, if we can keep
Speaker 1: them away, then we've got a better chance. So we
Speaker 1: have to again be an educated voter and know and
Speaker 1: understand that this is perhaps arguably the most important election
Speaker 1: of your lifetime save maybe you can argue on the
Speaker 1: other side Obama's was, but it's important, and it's even
Speaker 1: more important for our children. And so my take is
Speaker 1: we've got to turn out. We've got to turn out
Speaker 1: in so many numbers. It's almost like watching the NBA.
Speaker 1: Though it can happen, it's hard to lose a thirty
Speaker 1: point lead. You can get down and they can come
Speaker 1: back twenty eight, but they couldn't get that last get
Speaker 1: to tie it up, or two to win it, even
Speaker 1: though they chipped away and got it down to twenty
Speaker 1: eight points. So it will be hard if you have
Speaker 1: record turnout to suppress that boat where it'll make a difference. Right,
Speaker 1: you can't lie about people wrapped around poles waiting for hours.
Speaker 1: You can, but that's true. Right, he did lie about
Speaker 1: pictures of his inauguration. What is the thing that you
Speaker 1: most want folks to take away from your book Conversations
Speaker 1: in Black? What do you want people, young people, older
Speaker 1: people to walk away with that you have power, that
Speaker 1: you are not just on the sidelines, and that you
Speaker 1: have to accept what is coming your way. You cannot
Speaker 1: change everything. There's some things that you cannot control. But
Speaker 1: a mentor of mine was a great Johnny Cochrane. And
Speaker 1: I remember Johnny telling me one day through the oj
Speaker 1: f ASCO every time something crazy would happen, I was
Speaker 1: in his office with him, and he said to me,
Speaker 1: and the only thing you have control of in a
Speaker 1: crisis is your reaction during it. And I want people
Speaker 1: to understand, no matter what is happening, you have control
Speaker 1: of you. And if you can figure out your way
Speaker 1: to at least stabilize yourself or mitigate some of the
Speaker 1: the falling debris that's going to hit you, you're gonna
Speaker 1: survive it better. And so but you have to know
Speaker 1: that I can dodge it, I can pick up this garbage,
Speaker 1: can top and cover my head. Whatever the case may be,
Speaker 1: whatever metaphor you want to use, raining you get an umbrella,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. You have the power to help shape
Speaker 1: your life. If you know when people say you control
Speaker 1: your own destiny, you can't control destiny, and it's true
Speaker 1: form of what destiny means. But you can control some
Speaker 1: things that come across your desk. And we have to
Speaker 1: start believing that we have more controled in our lives
Speaker 1: and our condition as a people here in this country
Speaker 1: than we've believed of late brilliant Ed Gordon. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining PM mood. The book is Conversations
Speaker 1: in Black on power, politics and leadership. Pick it up
Speaker 1: by it as a gift, Get it for everyone. We
Speaker 1: have a lot of work to do and it's incredibly inspiring.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you for having me. If you want
Speaker 1: to hear more from me, check out my live daily
Speaker 1: political talk show, Woke, a f daily at DNR Studios.
Speaker 1: You can subscribe now at www dot DNR studios dot com.
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